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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, ready or not, twenty twenty four is here,

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Speaker 1: and we here at Breaking Points, are already thinking of

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Speaker 1: ways we can up our game for this critical election.

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Speaker 2: We rely on our premium subs to expand coverage, upgrade

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Speaker 2: the studio ad staff give.

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Speaker 3: You, guys, the best independent.

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Speaker 2: Coverage that is possible. If you like what we're all about,

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Speaker 2: it means the absolute world to have your support.

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Speaker 4: What are you waiting for?

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Speaker 2: Become a premium subscriber today at Breakingpoints dot com.

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Speaker 3: Welcome to Counterpoints. We're coming to you in the middle

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Speaker 3: of an absolutely crazy week. How are you doing, Ryan, Well.

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Speaker 5: We haven't gone over the cliff yet, not yet, but

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Speaker 5: as Conny has not been blown up, Vladimir's Zelenski and

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Speaker 5: chairman she Met spoke on the phone yesterday that could

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Speaker 5: be a step toward a Chinese broken piece. Even the

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Speaker 5: United States believes that China might be the only one

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Speaker 5: you know, that has remotely.

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Speaker 3: The credibility to broke or something.

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Speaker 5: We're all waiting, I guess for this Spring offensive to

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Speaker 5: finish off, which seems kind of seems kind of morbid

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Speaker 5: that people seem to know this war has to end

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Speaker 5: at some point, but hold on We're just going to

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Speaker 5: do a couple more months of carnage and then we'll

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Speaker 5: end it, rather than just saying, how about all of

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Speaker 5: those people can live, have grandchildren, et cetera.

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Speaker 4: And the war now.

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Speaker 3: Right, a crazy story that we'll continue to follow because

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Speaker 3: to your point, the Chinese intervention here seems to be

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Speaker 3: even people in the United States saying, what's going on?

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Speaker 5: Yeah, you know, the after they struck a Middle East

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Speaker 5: piece deal between Saudi Rape and Iran.

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Speaker 3: Yeah. No, absolutely, Well, we're going to start today by

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Speaker 3: talking about the debt stand off that's coming to a

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Speaker 3: head maybe today. Actually, we're going to talk about some

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Speaker 3: developments in the twenty twenty four presidential race. We're going

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Speaker 3: to talk about the Supreme Court conflicts of interest stories

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Speaker 3: that have come out in the last couple of weeks.

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Speaker 3: We're talking about the Abbi Grosberg lawsuit that is coming

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Speaker 3: for Fox News. We're going to talk about doctor Fauci's

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Speaker 3: recent profile in the New York Times. I'm going to

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Speaker 3: tell talk about the United Nations, and Ryan is going

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Speaker 3: to talk about Susan Rice. Let's start with the news

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Speaker 3: of the day, the debts stand off. President Biden yesterday

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Speaker 3: said quote a one here Republican efforts. The Republican legislation

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Speaker 3: is a reckless attempt to extract extreme concessions as a

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Speaker 3: condition for the United States simply paying the bills it

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Speaker 3: has already incurred. Now you have if we put a

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Speaker 3: two up on the screen. Chip Roy, he's from the

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Speaker 3: House Freedom Caucus. He just wrote this in the Federalist.

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Speaker 3: He says, this is the question that Republicans are presented with, quote,

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Speaker 3: will we cave to the President, Wall Street, massive corporation,

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Speaker 3: swamp lobbyists in the corporate media to continue America's borrow

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Speaker 3: and spend death spiral, or will we instead take this

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Speaker 3: opportunity to stand up for the American people to demand

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Speaker 3: their leaders stop irresponsibly spending money we do not have.

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Speaker 3: So that is a preview of what faces Kevin McCarthy

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Speaker 3: should he back down on a legislation. Republicans have a

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Speaker 3: bill that they want to vote on today. They need

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Speaker 3: two hundred and eighteen votes. Kevin McCarthy can actually not

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Speaker 3: afford to lose more than what six members of the

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Speaker 3: Freedom Caucus, and so in order to work its way

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Speaker 3: through the House of Representatives, he needs to please people

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Speaker 3: who have the thoughts that Chip Roy has there. Here

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Speaker 3: are a couple of quotes though, that members gave yesterday.

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Speaker 3: This is Jody Errington. He's the leader of the House

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Speaker 3: Budget Committee. He said, Speaker McCarthy's been at the table

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Speaker 3: and he has offered to negotiate with the President. Now

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Speaker 3: we're going to put our terms on a piece of paper.

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Speaker 3: Get two hundred and eighteen Republicans, and we're going to

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Speaker 3: put the ball in their court. Ralph Norman, he's a

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Speaker 3: member of the Freedom Caucus, says this is the bare

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Speaker 3: minimum for me and a host of other people. They

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Speaker 3: are going to be quote leaning no until they get

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Speaker 3: concessions from McCarthy. So that's a pretty incredible state of

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Speaker 3: affairs and balance for McCarthy to strike today as they

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Speaker 3: want to push this bill over the finish line. Of course,

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Speaker 3: if you've been following this, President Biden said he's not

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Speaker 3: negotiating period, because he doesn't think the debt ceiling should

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Speaker 3: have to be raised with any.

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Speaker 5: Conditions pplicating matters for Kevin McCarthy's it's not just the

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Speaker 5: Freedom Caucus that he has to deal with. He also

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Speaker 5: has the the Nancy Mace types you know, who don't

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Speaker 5: like the idea of voting for kind of draconian cuts. Particularly,

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Speaker 5: she doesn't it doesn't She and other modern Republicans don't

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Speaker 5: really like voting against some of these kind of green

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Speaker 5: tax credits because that won't necessarily play well in a

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Speaker 5: swing district.

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Speaker 3: I think she has people who manufacture in her in

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Speaker 3: South Carolina.

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Speaker 5: Right, it's becoming a real industry, like the clean energy

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Speaker 5: industry is becoming an industry, and so it's going to

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Speaker 5: have jobs associated with it. It's going to have economic

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Speaker 5: impact associated with it, and therefore it's going to have

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Speaker 5: political economy power. It's going to have people who are like,

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Speaker 5: not so sure about this. Equally, you have these Midwest

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Speaker 5: and I'm sure you know much more about this than

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Speaker 5: I do. You've got all these Midwest Republicans who are

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Speaker 5: upset that the Republican bill, in order to save money,

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Speaker 5: is pulling back on ethanol subsidies. And to me, what

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Speaker 5: do the kids call it? Based good? Good for Kevin

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Speaker 5: McCarthy if we're taking it also, Oh yeah, ethanol subsidies

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Speaker 5: are the stupidest possible thing on playing Like what we do.

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Speaker 3: The pinnacle of crony capitalism.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, we take.

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Speaker 5: Public money and we pay people to grow corn, and

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Speaker 5: then we then turn that corn into ethanol, and then

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Speaker 5: we force people to put in gasol and put it

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Speaker 5: in their cars.

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Speaker 3: Ethanol for different reasons.

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Speaker 4: What are we doing?

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Speaker 3: No, I think that's great. I think that's great, and

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Speaker 3: I mean the freedom cocke should be all over that.

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Speaker 3: And this is how the Washington Post describes the Republican

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Speaker 3: bill on the table. They say it would quote slash

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Speaker 3: federal spending dramatically and unwind some of Biden's priorities, including

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Speaker 3: a student debt cancelation and efforts to address climate change

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Speaker 3: and exchange. Republicans would agree to increase the debt ceiling obviously,

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Speaker 3: the statutory cap on how much the US government can

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Speaker 3: borrow to pay its bills. That's from the Post. So

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Speaker 3: as Ryan was saying, it does roll back some of

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Speaker 3: the bills that have already been passed that by President Biden,

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Speaker 3: the Inflation Reduction Act that looks at to target some

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Speaker 3: of those things. Obviously, this is not a bill that

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Speaker 3: Joe Biden is going to agree to. It is, however,

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Speaker 3: a bill that gets really interesting when you kick it

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Speaker 3: over to the Senate, if.

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Speaker 4: Right, but they don't expect it.

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Speaker 5: And also just to be clear, if people expect there

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Speaker 5: to be some climate benefit out of ethnol, there isn't

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Speaker 5: because it's so resource intensive to grow the corn in

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Speaker 5: the first place.

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Speaker 4: To then burn it.

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Speaker 5: But right, so, Kevin McCarthy's plan here is I'm going

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Speaker 5: to show that I have two hundred and eighteen votes

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Speaker 5: on this bill. And he's say, I'm not negotiating this

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Speaker 5: bill at all, like, this is what we've got, this

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Speaker 5: is what we're taking to Biden. You've got some Republicans

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Speaker 5: who are saying, and Gates has said this, unless you

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Speaker 5: fiddle with the work requirements, unless you makeer higher work

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Speaker 5: requirements for federal benefits kick in sooner than I'm out,

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Speaker 5: which to me is just not credible because you're threatening

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Speaker 5: to blow up the global economy to move work requirements

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Speaker 5: from twenty hours to thirty hours, and to move it

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Speaker 5: back a little bit close, you know, to implement it

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Speaker 5: a little bit faster than it's being implemented in a

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Speaker 5: messaging bill that nobody thinks is.

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Speaker 4: Going to be passed anyway.

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Speaker 5: It'd be like, you know, pass me the prezels where

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Speaker 5: I'm gonna cut your head off. No bad deal, No,

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Speaker 5: like that's this is not a proportionate response here, Like

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Speaker 5: you really think work requirements should be higher, go to committee,

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Speaker 5: write a bill, talk to your other members of Congress,

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Speaker 5: and then maybe we'll you know, reform work requirements. I

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Speaker 5: think it's silly, but okay, let's let's talk about that.

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Speaker 5: But you're gonna you're gonna use this leverage that.

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Speaker 4: You have to get that.

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Speaker 3: The problem with it being a messaging bill is that

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Speaker 3: Gates has absolutely no reason to come to the table

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Speaker 3: with McCarthy. And then it's McCarthy's test to see what

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Speaker 3: he can give to Matt Gates, to Chip Roy, to

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Speaker 3: anybody who's demanding concessions from McCarthy in order to build

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Speaker 3: their support. This is really what Kevin McCarthy is good at.

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Speaker 3: It's what he prides himself in doing. He always points

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Speaker 3: back to what he did with Jim Jordan and putting

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Speaker 3: him in charge of oversight that this was sort of

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Speaker 3: he'd used the carrot not the stick, and it worked

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Speaker 3: out really well. So this is like probably the first

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Speaker 3: biggest test because really nobody has any any clear reason

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Speaker 3: to negotiate because if anything, if Matt Gates won't get

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Speaker 3: concessions on that, he knows particularly if he doesn't get

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Speaker 3: a concession on that, he can take it to Fox News,

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Speaker 3: he can take it everywhere he wants and say, Kevin McCarthy,

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Speaker 3: you know, wants welfare or whatever, and he's standing up

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Speaker 3: to the.

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Speaker 4: Swamp right and it hurts McCarthy.

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Speaker 5: And so then Gates is in a better position if

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Speaker 5: he's still, you know, in a hostile posture vis a

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Speaker 5: vis McCarthy, Because if he doesn't get these this package

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Speaker 5: through with two hundred and eighteen votes, then McCarthy is

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Speaker 5: badly hobbled with Biden. Now people want to say, well,

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Speaker 5: but if Gates is the one that hobbled McCarthy, isn't

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Speaker 5: it Gates's fault.

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Speaker 4: No, people don't pay attention like that.

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Speaker 5: They would just see McCarthy as kind of losing in

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Speaker 5: a standoff with Biden, which then brings McCarthy's demise kind

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Speaker 5: of one day closer, because if he can't get his

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Speaker 5: own caucus to agree on a debt ceiling increase with

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Speaker 5: all of the cuts that he wants that his caucus wants,

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Speaker 5: then how can he go to the negotiating table and

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Speaker 5: ask for anything from Biden when it's clear that he

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Speaker 5: can't even deliver on this maximalist.

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Speaker 4: Position, right.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, No, that's a hugely important point. And for Republicans,

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Speaker 3: they obviously need to be strategic about this because if

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Speaker 3: they lose Kevin McCarthy again, as we learned in January,

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Speaker 3: they really have no plausible backup. It just doesn't exist.

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Speaker 3: And he is the one person I'm talking purely from

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Speaker 3: a strategic standpoint right now. He's the one person that

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Speaker 3: has any hope of bridging all of these different divides

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Speaker 3: and navigating all of these different competing interests. And so

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Speaker 3: if they push it to the limit on this, especially

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Speaker 3: on the messaging the messaging bill, if they push it

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Speaker 3: to the limit on the messaging bill, then they could

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Speaker 3: be in like serious trouble for the rest of this Congress.

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Speaker 3: And I would just add that so far, it does

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Speaker 3: look good for McCarthy because the fact that Chip Roy

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Speaker 3: and people in the Freedom Caucus are saying like we're

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Speaker 3: at our bare minimum. That may seem not good, but

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Speaker 3: it actually is pretty good for Kevin McCarthy at this

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Speaker 3: point because that was not easy to do. And it

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Speaker 3: seems like they're making these arguments in good faith when

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Speaker 3: they are taking them to the media, and that is

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Speaker 3: positive for him bodes well for today. He probably just

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Speaker 3: wants to get a quick vote, get it over with,

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Speaker 3: but that could be that could go in a million

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Speaker 3: different directions.

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Speaker 4: So how would you handicap it?

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Speaker 5: Do you think that he will have the Do you

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Speaker 5: think he'll put it on the floor today and have

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Speaker 5: enough votes to get it passed?

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Speaker 3: If I had to bet, I would say it goes

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Speaker 3: on the floor today or right after and it does

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Speaker 3: get the votes, but I wouldn't put a lot of

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Speaker 3: money on that.

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Speaker 5: And then if it if it gets pulled, do you

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Speaker 5: think he comes back by the end of the week

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Speaker 5: with enough votes or do you think he just kind

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Speaker 5: of retrenches and continues the game of chicken that I

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Speaker 5: feel like he has to lose in order for this

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Speaker 5: to wrap up.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, no, I mean I think that's a really good question,

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Speaker 3: because we saw he went through how many ballots and

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Speaker 3: kept getting concessions and concessions in the speaker race, and

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Speaker 3: maybe there's some muscle memory there and back Gates knows

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Speaker 3: that he can keep going through putting Kevin McCarthy through

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Speaker 3: the ringer time and again and finally get to a

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Speaker 3: better place despite all odds. Maybe because they really don't

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Speaker 3: have a backup, but it's possible that also blows up

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Speaker 3: in everyone's face, and there are relationships that can never

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Speaker 3: be relationships broken that can never be repaired. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's like the worst case scenario probably.

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Speaker 5: And yeah, the Freedom Caucus just seems structurally and fundamentally

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Speaker 5: in the same handicap as kind of the Progressive Caucus,

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Speaker 5: which is that they have some leverage because they have

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Speaker 5: some members of Congress they want a much different governing

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Speaker 5: structure than exists, but they don't have a majority right

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Speaker 5: to enact.

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Speaker 3: That, but they have such the Republicans in general have

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Speaker 3: such a slim majority that they have all the power

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Speaker 3: and the Freedom Caucus's court or the same thing with

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Speaker 3: like the Two Day Group, And we saw this in

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Speaker 3: the Pelosi Congress with Justice Democrats, they really did wield

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Speaker 3: a lot of power, and I think a lot of

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Speaker 3: people on the left would be correct to say they

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Speaker 3: didn't always wield in appropriately or as much as they could.

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Speaker 3: But the Freedom crowc is has less I think reservations

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Speaker 3: about doing that because they already don't have the media,

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Speaker 3: so they can't afford to blow things up because they're

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Speaker 3: not losing media credibility if they never had it.

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Speaker 4: They still have the product, they don't have the votes.

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Speaker 5: But we'll see, we'll see if they can out maneuver

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Speaker 5: that that handicap. So moving to the twenty twenty four election,

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Speaker 5: interesting piece in the Washington Examiner by Con Carol, former

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Speaker 5: Hill staffer.

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Speaker 4: Right, yes, it.

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Speaker 5: Is called could be one up here called why Trump

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Speaker 5: beat Clinton, lost to Biden and would lose to Biden again,

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Speaker 5: which I think actually gets at the kind of unspoken

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Speaker 5: truth behind our current politics and the point he's making

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Speaker 5: I wanted to get your take on this is that

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Speaker 5: there are there's an increasing number of people who hate

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Speaker 5: both candidates and hate both parties. Among those people, though,

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Speaker 5: and this is where groups like no labels the kind

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Speaker 5: of corporate group that is putting its ballot line on

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Speaker 5: ballots all across the countries because they keep looking at

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Speaker 5: poules saying that look, sixty percent of the country says

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Speaker 5: they don't want either of these two parties. They're like boom,

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Speaker 5: Therefore they want a corporate back to Joe Manchin Lisa

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Speaker 5: Murkowski ticket.

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Speaker 4: It's like, no, I don't think they said that.

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Speaker 5: I think they said the first thing that they don't

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Speaker 5: like either party, that they didn't say they like you.

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Speaker 5: And so what Con does is he looks at, well, Okay,

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Speaker 5: how are these people actually going to vote in the end,

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Speaker 5: Because almost all of the sixty percent of people say

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Speaker 5: they don't like either party.

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Speaker 4: They have no other choice.

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Speaker 5: They vote, and they vote pretty consistently for one party

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Speaker 5: or the other. But what Con points to is that

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Speaker 5: overwhelmingly of the people who hate both candidates, they hate

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Speaker 5: Biden less, yeah, significantly, and they hated Clinton more. And

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Speaker 5: that's and that's and it wasn't that Trump, you know,

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Speaker 5: was able to capture the hearts of the nation in

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Speaker 5: twenty sixteen. It was that people disliked him less than

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Speaker 5: they disliked Hillary Clinton. And his argument is that's why

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Speaker 5: he lost to Biden in twenty twenty and would again

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Speaker 5: for that simple reason.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Biden's just not as hateable.

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Speaker 3: Well, I think there's there's something to that. And it's

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Speaker 3: not as though Biden captured the hearts of the nation either,

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Speaker 3: That's what is.

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Speaker 4: Right.

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Speaker 3: And so, yeah, CON's numbers show that Biden is beating

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Speaker 3: Trump easily fifty four to fifteen percent among those voters

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Speaker 3: that disapprove of both candidates. So then he asks how

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Speaker 3: many of them are this time around. Well, he says

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Speaker 3: forty seven percent of all voters believe that neither Biden

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Speaker 3: nor Trump should run for president in twenty twenty four. Now,

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Speaker 3: Ron DeSantis has higher favorable ratings than Biden and Trump.

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Speaker 3: That's what con points out. He says, it's not surprising

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Speaker 3: them when you look at both national and state poles.

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Speaker 3: Both Trump is losing to Biden and DeSantis is beating Biden.

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Speaker 3: So that is a really interesting metric, and it gets

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Speaker 3: to this question of how many of those voters actually

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Speaker 3: decide to go to the polls. So if you have

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Speaker 3: forty seven percent of people that don't like either candidate,

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Speaker 3: how many of them just set out? How many of

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Speaker 3: them actually vote? That's why when I think, you know,

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Speaker 3: the pundit class tries to crunch all of these numbers

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Speaker 3: in interesting ways, and they get into like beautiful mind

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Speaker 3: chalkboard math. It just like there's you can't always predict

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Speaker 3: how many of the people who hate both candidates decide

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Speaker 3: to show up or not. It's just almost impossible to do.

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Speaker 5: Although, you know, since twenty sixteen and because of Trump,

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Speaker 5: I think I think it's fair to say we've had

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Speaker 5: a surge and engagement, civic engagement on election.

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Speaker 3: Day, young people. You've pointed out.

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Speaker 5: Young people, women, men in Pennsylvania who hadn't voted it,

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Speaker 5: didn't even vote in twenty sixteen. They came out and

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Speaker 5: voted in twenty twenty. Like, people are kind of hooked

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Speaker 5: into the circus and the drama of it in a

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Speaker 5: way that they weren't in like twenty twelve, let's say.

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Speaker 5: And so I do think you're going to continue to

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Speaker 5: see that. It's going to continue to kind of dominate

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Speaker 5: our feeds. And so even these people who hate them

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Speaker 5: both are still going to want to participate. They got

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Speaker 5: to get their selfie. You know, you got to got

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Speaker 5: to make your content. How are you gonna make your

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Speaker 5: voting content your civic content if you don't actually participate

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Speaker 5: in it. So I think that'll drive drive a significant

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Speaker 5: amount of it. But yeah, people, just so the question

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Speaker 5: then I have for you is is there any point

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Speaker 5: at which the Republican base starts to become pragmatic and says, Okay, yeah,

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Speaker 5: we love our guy.

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Speaker 4: But man, how is he losing to Biden in these polls?

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Speaker 4: And how is it Santa? It's winning?

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Speaker 5: So we're gonna be pragmatic and we're gonna switch over

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Speaker 5: to the Santus or no way, Like they look at

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Speaker 5: Biden and they're like, that's the most beatable guy in

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Speaker 5: the planet.

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Speaker 4: I don't care what the Poles say.

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Speaker 3: No, because there's a really easy answer is because of

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Speaker 3: the flight ninety three election sort of concept that Michael

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Speaker 3: Anton sort of famously popularized. That was, of course when

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Speaker 3: it was a binary choice between Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton.

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Speaker 3: But he his thing was like the planes going.

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Speaker 5: Ninety three, Yeah, yeah, give him the framework again.

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Speaker 3: So he wrote for Claremont that if you if the

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Speaker 3: plane is going down, the plane is being hijacked, you

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Speaker 3: you put all of your eggs in the one basket.

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Speaker 3: That like is going to just be completely dramatic. And

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Speaker 3: if so, if the country is going down, the metaphor follows,

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Speaker 3: why not just like blow up the government and see

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Speaker 3: what happens and.

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Speaker 4: Metaphorically grab the wheel.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, grab the wheel.

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Speaker 4: And if you crash a crash, if.

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Speaker 3: You crash a crash, because we're crashing anyway. So like

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Speaker 3: that's the calculus. And I think there are a whole

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Speaker 3: lot of people it's sort of like what we were

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Speaker 3: just talking about with the freedom Caucus, Like, what is

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Speaker 3: their incentive to cooperate with Kevin McCarthy, especially on a

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Speaker 3: messaging built Well, what is the average voter who might

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Speaker 3: not be like a died in the wool Republican but

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Speaker 3: really likes Donald Trump Because he said everyone else is

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Speaker 3: lying accurate doesn't mean that he's not lying to and

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Speaker 3: sort of provided that glimmer of hope saying we're going

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Speaker 3: to stop endless wars, we are going to have a

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Speaker 3: robust middle class, we're going to bring jobs back, et cetera,

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Speaker 3: et cetera. He provided a lot of hope for people

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Speaker 3: like that. And if your alternative then is Ron DeSantis,

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Speaker 3: a guy who has been a politician for a really

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Speaker 3: long time and could never be Donald Trump. Nobody can

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Speaker 3: never be Donald Trump, then no, you don't have a

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Speaker 3: lot of You don't have a lot of incentive to

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Speaker 3: play nice with the Republican Party or to be pragmatic

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Speaker 3: with the Republican Party. And if we put B two

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Speaker 3: up on the screen, I think that's what a lot

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Speaker 3: of this gets at. This is a tweet from Ron

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Speaker 3: Brownstein where he says a nude PBS News Hour and

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Speaker 3: pr Marris poll neatly sums up the Republican situation. Heading

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Speaker 3: into twenty twenty four, sixty three percent of Republicans say

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Speaker 3: they want a second Trump turn even if he's found

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Speaker 3: guilty of a crime, but just twenty one percent of independence,

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Speaker 3: twenty four percent of non whites, twenty seven percent under

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Speaker 3: the age of forty five, and seventeen percent of what

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Speaker 3: does that one say? College? Okay, college whites agree And

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Speaker 3: so if you look at that, this is where we're

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Speaker 3: balancing these what's the best word like the passions of voters, right,

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Speaker 3: So like, if you really love Donald Trump or if

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Speaker 3: you don't like either candidate, what does turnout look like?

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Speaker 3: What does your motivation to actually vote for somebody look like?

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Speaker 3: What does your motivation to give look like? If Bernie

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Speaker 3: and Trump get a bunch of small dollar donors like

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Speaker 3: that actually can really make a difference. So I think

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Speaker 3: that's one of the big questions here is who has

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Speaker 3: the passion on their side among their voters.

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Speaker 5: So the Republican hope, it sounds like, is that the

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Speaker 5: Biden supporters won't be passionate enough to come out on

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Speaker 5: election day as maybe they were in the past, or

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Speaker 5: Trump supporters would be, and as a result, then Trump

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Speaker 5: will be able to eke it out. The cold water

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Speaker 5: I would throw on that potential. I think it's possible,

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Speaker 5: and maybe he doesn't even live to the election. But

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Speaker 5: the cold water I would throw on it is that

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Speaker 5: it's not that Democrats support Biden with any passion, but man,

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Speaker 5: do they not like Trump?

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Speaker 4: And so they will.

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Speaker 5: Crawl overs They crawl over Glass in twenty eighteen to

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Speaker 5: hit the Women's March in twenty eighteen, to go to

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Speaker 5: the midterms in twenty twenty to throw him out of

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Speaker 5: the White House, and they'll crawl over glass again in

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Speaker 5: twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 4: I think to elect anybody. Kim Jong un.

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Speaker 5: Not born in the United States, so not constitutionally eligible,

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Speaker 5: But you know what I mean, they would vote for anybody,

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Speaker 5: and they would crawl over Glass to vote for anybody

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Speaker 5: other than him. That so that that's my guess, because

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Speaker 5: we're a culture and a politics of fear and hatred

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Speaker 5: rather than hope, and so that's what's motivated people.

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Speaker 3: Well, and yeah, I mean I think there's there's also

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Speaker 3: this question of, you know, the difference between Hillary and Biden,

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Speaker 3: as con points out, I think really accurately, is that

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Speaker 3: one is less unlikable, and so if you have Joe

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Speaker 3: Biden versus another candidate, I think that's also a really

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Speaker 3: interesting question because Biden is sort of you know, you're

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Speaker 3: able to kind of project different things onto him, and

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Speaker 3: he does that intentionally. You know, he doesn't sort of

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Speaker 3: stake out a hard claim to the progressive base or

441
00:21:27,400 --> 00:21:30,320
Speaker 3: the centrispace. He does a bunch of it and lets

442
00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:34,320
Speaker 3: people just kind of be He's everything to whatever anybody wants.

443
00:21:34,400 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 3: But Joe Biden can be, or he tries to, I think,

444
00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,399
Speaker 3: use that strategy, and so that I think does allow

445
00:21:40,440 --> 00:21:44,200
Speaker 3: you to be a little bit less unlikable than Hillary

446
00:21:44,320 --> 00:21:47,879
Speaker 3: Clinton and get some more votes than than Trump.

447
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:50,119
Speaker 5: Yes, and speaking of not having any hope, can we

448
00:21:50,160 --> 00:21:53,359
Speaker 5: put a B five, which is the the This is

449
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:58,960
Speaker 5: Bernie Sanders. So after after Biden announced his bid for

450
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:02,600
Speaker 5: presidency on two Day Day with his video, Bernie Sanders

451
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:08,000
Speaker 5: kind of in the it's not surprising but shocking kind

452
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:13,440
Speaker 5: of development, came out and endorsed Biden immediately. I say

453
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:16,480
Speaker 5: not surprising because he's been signaling for the last year

454
00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:19,720
Speaker 5: or longer that if Biden is running, he's gonna he's

455
00:22:19,720 --> 00:22:21,520
Speaker 5: not gonna run, and he's gonna endorse Biden, so we

456
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:23,959
Speaker 5: knew this was going to happen, but it's still jarring,

457
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:26,080
Speaker 5: I guess would be the better word to see the

458
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:31,320
Speaker 5: kind of independent democratic socialist Canada who twice ran just

459
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,639
Speaker 5: immediately endorsing Joe Biden, which I think goes to my

460
00:22:34,760 --> 00:22:38,000
Speaker 5: other point that people are not getting behind Biden because

461
00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:40,440
Speaker 5: they have some hope that he's going to bring kind

462
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,240
Speaker 5: of fundamental transformational change that the working class needs to

463
00:22:43,280 --> 00:22:45,639
Speaker 5: this country, but that they just want to beat Trump.

464
00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:50,240
Speaker 5: Bernie in his book, his most recent book, he talks

465
00:22:50,280 --> 00:22:53,240
Speaker 5: about why he immediately why he dropped out so quickly

466
00:22:53,280 --> 00:22:57,679
Speaker 5: and then immediately basically endorsed Biden, saying that he didn't

467
00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,320
Speaker 5: want anybody to be able to blame him, and he

468
00:23:00,359 --> 00:23:03,000
Speaker 5: didn't want to feel any sense of personal responsibility for

469
00:23:03,080 --> 00:23:05,480
Speaker 5: doing anything that could have helped Trump, because in twenty

470
00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:08,600
Speaker 5: sixteen he waited all the way until the convention to

471
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:12,360
Speaker 5: support Hillary Clinton and spent the next several.

472
00:23:12,240 --> 00:23:14,560
Speaker 4: Years getting blamed by that.

473
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,040
Speaker 5: And it sounds like, from the way he's writing in

474
00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:18,960
Speaker 5: his book that maybe even kind of blaming himself a

475
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:19,280
Speaker 5: little bit.

476
00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,159
Speaker 3: I was going to ask, is that the implication that

477
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:23,120
Speaker 3: he thinks those Chargers had any marriage.

478
00:23:23,119 --> 00:23:25,600
Speaker 5: I feel like he some of them stung a little

479
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:29,440
Speaker 5: bit because he didn't think I think just trying to

480
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:32,239
Speaker 5: you know, mind read through his book. He didn't think

481
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:35,000
Speaker 5: that Trump was going to win and he's and he

482
00:23:36,320 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 5: did not want to endorse Hillary Clinton and dragged it

483
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,480
Speaker 5: out as long as possible, and I think some of

484
00:23:42,480 --> 00:23:43,200
Speaker 5: it stings sometimes.

485
00:23:43,400 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 4: I think I think he does.

486
00:23:44,760 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 5: Some of it does resonate with him, and I think

487
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:49,679
Speaker 5: that helps to explain why he capitulated so quickly this

488
00:23:49,760 --> 00:23:50,280
Speaker 5: time around.

489
00:23:51,080 --> 00:23:54,080
Speaker 3: Well, and now Joe Biden has competition in the form

490
00:23:54,200 --> 00:23:57,160
Speaker 3: of both RFK Junior and marian Williamson. But let's put

491
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 3: this next element. I think it's b three up on

492
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:02,840
Speaker 3: the screen where you see Maggie Haveraman putting out that

493
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:06,440
Speaker 3: Donald Trump is threatening to skip debates. That's gonna be

494
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,240
Speaker 3: a question for both of the top candidates, it seems,

495
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:13,840
Speaker 3: because Joe Biden hasn't signaled any interest in debating Mary

496
00:24:13,880 --> 00:24:17,000
Speaker 3: Williamson or RFK Junior, although I think the fact that

497
00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,640
Speaker 3: now both of them are in the race has ratcheted

498
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:23,000
Speaker 3: up the pressure on Biden to debate. I do think,

499
00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:26,959
Speaker 3: especially given where Marianne is on TikTok. Honestly, that an

500
00:24:27,040 --> 00:24:28,879
Speaker 3: RFK Junior. I think it has a pretty.

501
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,959
Speaker 5: Like fourteen percent or something. Yeah, and that's he's got

502
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:32,520
Speaker 5: a great name.

503
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,280
Speaker 3: So he does have a great name. He's got that

504
00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,720
Speaker 3: going for him, and he seems to be running at

505
00:24:36,760 --> 00:24:40,000
Speaker 3: least a pretty strategically smart campaign so far. I think

506
00:24:40,040 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 3: that does heighten the pressure on Biden actually to debate.

507
00:24:42,960 --> 00:24:46,440
Speaker 3: We'll see actually where that goes from from here.

508
00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:48,760
Speaker 4: And I love Trump just laying out all of his

509
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,840
Speaker 4: politics in.

510
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,560
Speaker 5: This truth social post where he basically says, look, I'm

511
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,200
Speaker 5: so far ahead, why would I debate? So maybe DeSantis

512
00:24:57,200 --> 00:24:59,960
Speaker 5: and Marian Williamson and RFK Junior can debate.

513
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:00,960
Speaker 3: Oh, that would be fun.

514
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:01,639
Speaker 4: That'd be a good one.

515
00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:02,320
Speaker 3: I would watch that.

516
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:03,640
Speaker 4: Everybody would watch.

517
00:25:03,400 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 3: That for Chris Christian see what happens.

518
00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,920
Speaker 5: Absolutely Chris Christie is welcome to Trump also makes the

519
00:25:08,960 --> 00:25:11,600
Speaker 5: point that Fred Ryan, who was formerly the CEO of

520
00:25:11,680 --> 00:25:16,000
Speaker 5: Politico is now publisher of The Washington Post, is the

521
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:19,399
Speaker 5: chairman of the Reagan Library. He was Reagan's chief of

522
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:23,120
Speaker 5: staff after Reagan was president, and so he's saying, there

523
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,879
Speaker 5: no way biased can't go to the Reagan Library. How

524
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:28,640
Speaker 5: does it feel to have the front running Republicans say

525
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:31,600
Speaker 5: that he can't participate at a debate at the Reagan

526
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:33,440
Speaker 5: Library because it would be unfair to him.

527
00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:37,720
Speaker 3: Reignan Library has a lot of problems with the conservative movement,

528
00:25:37,720 --> 00:25:39,960
Speaker 3: does it? I think increasingly? Yeah, I mean they hosted

529
00:25:39,960 --> 00:25:40,600
Speaker 3: List Cheney.

530
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,639
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, how do you leave that out? Maybe character

531
00:25:44,800 --> 00:25:45,440
Speaker 5: character limit?

532
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 3: Maybe well, we should probably move on now to the

533
00:25:49,400 --> 00:25:53,720
Speaker 3: increasing conversation about ethics on the Supreme Court. Ryan, there's

534
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:57,919
Speaker 3: a new intercept report on Harlan Crow's citizenship.

535
00:25:58,119 --> 00:26:02,199
Speaker 5: Yes, this was a story that Ken Klippenstein did with

536
00:26:02,359 --> 00:26:05,240
Speaker 5: Jason Palladino in a partnership with the Project on Government Oversight.

537
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,080
Speaker 5: If we're gonna put this this first haear sheet up here,

538
00:26:08,240 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 5: but essentially that we got leak documents that show that

539
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:15,240
Speaker 5: Harlan Crowe purchased citizenship from Saint Kitts, what's called Saint

540
00:26:15,320 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 5: Kitts and Nevis one of you know. So there are

541
00:26:19,160 --> 00:26:24,320
Speaker 5: there there are these corporate slash sovereign structures around the

542
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:29,919
Speaker 5: world that have managed to kind basically incorporate themselves into governments,

543
00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:37,119
Speaker 5: calling themselves places like Saint Kitts, which then have this

544
00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:41,160
Speaker 5: this allegedly the sovereign powers of a government and what

545
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:45,080
Speaker 5: they then do. It's Cyprus being kind of one of

546
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:48,560
Speaker 5: the famous ones over and a couple others over in

547
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 5: the EU. You can kind of like what's basically what

548
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:54,040
Speaker 5: you do is you can buy your way into citizenship.

549
00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,960
Speaker 5: It's very expensive in the sense that it costs to

550
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:01,560
Speaker 5: what to you and me would be an extraordinary amount

551
00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:04,679
Speaker 5: of money, but in relative terms to a billionaire is

552
00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:08,040
Speaker 5: like nothing, which is similar to how kind of the

553
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:11,840
Speaker 5: Bahamas like makes so much money, or Delaware actually does

554
00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:12,360
Speaker 5: the same thing.

555
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 4: That it costs a between fifty.

556
00:27:15,119 --> 00:27:19,520
Speaker 5: Dollars and five hundred dollars to like incorporate your your company,

557
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,000
Speaker 5: your tax shelter in Delaware or in the Bahamas with

558
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,240
Speaker 5: not a lot not a lot of money in absolute terms,

559
00:27:27,080 --> 00:27:30,520
Speaker 5: but it adds up to you know, millions and billions

560
00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:35,360
Speaker 5: for these for these countries and so quote unquote countries,

561
00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 5: and so a place like Saint Kitts then has a

562
00:27:39,440 --> 00:27:42,960
Speaker 5: new citizen, Harlan Crowe, who can then park his money

563
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:49,199
Speaker 5: there and if he has the cleverest tax attorneys, he

564
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,359
Speaker 5: can get around the he can get around you know,

565
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,080
Speaker 5: taxes that he owes here in the United States, and

566
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 5: so it's just hilarious.

567
00:27:59,080 --> 00:28:00,240
Speaker 4: You know, it's just too much.

568
00:28:00,280 --> 00:28:03,160
Speaker 5: It's like, also the guy's name is Harlan Crowe, which

569
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:07,240
Speaker 5: is hilarious. Like all of it is just a complete

570
00:28:07,359 --> 00:28:11,520
Speaker 5: kind of caricature of an oligarchy that that you would

571
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,280
Speaker 5: have a Supreme Court justice who presents himself as this

572
00:28:15,720 --> 00:28:17,919
Speaker 5: guy who loves to ride around the country in his

573
00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:23,040
Speaker 5: RV and go to NASCAR races, who is also taking

574
00:28:23,240 --> 00:28:26,119
Speaker 5: you know, global yacht trips with this billionaire who is

575
00:28:26,200 --> 00:28:30,600
Speaker 5: such an American patriot that he has purchased citizenship elsewhere

576
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,359
Speaker 5: so he can not perform his civic obligation of like

577
00:28:34,880 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 5: paying his fair share.

578
00:28:35,880 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're in the upper echelons of American politics,

579
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:39,719
Speaker 3: whether it's on the left of the right, you're going

580
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:41,440
Speaker 3: to end up on a mega yacht and you're gonna

581
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:44,280
Speaker 3: end up pealing around with somebody who has dual citizenship

582
00:28:44,760 --> 00:28:47,440
Speaker 3: tax haven US. I mean, it is, like, I think

583
00:28:47,480 --> 00:28:49,640
Speaker 3: that's the sad reality of the said truth. I'm not

584
00:28:49,640 --> 00:28:51,280
Speaker 3: saying it's a good thing, but I do think it

585
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:53,360
Speaker 3: really is where the country is right now that you're

586
00:28:53,400 --> 00:28:55,560
Speaker 3: I mean, if you're in the upper echelons of American politics.

587
00:28:55,600 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 3: That's people that are just naturally going to be in

588
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:02,080
Speaker 3: your circle, the Thomases. And in full disclosure, I very

589
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:05,000
Speaker 3: much admired Clarence Thomas. He grew up dirt poor. I

590
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:06,640
Speaker 3: think he has an incredible story. He was in the

591
00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,800
Speaker 3: sort of fringe left when he was in college and

592
00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:12,880
Speaker 3: you know, sort of change his life, turned his life around.

593
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:16,800
Speaker 4: Here's in Cinema quite like Kierson Cinema. Well, yeah, she

594
00:29:16,880 --> 00:29:17,560
Speaker 4: was fringe left.

595
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 3: I feel like he was even fringier.

596
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:21,680
Speaker 4: Though maybe I don't know she was out there, she

597
00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:22,200
Speaker 4: was up there.

598
00:29:22,240 --> 00:29:25,880
Speaker 5: But I think that some of these folks who are

599
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 5: active with the with the fringe left come away with

600
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:33,440
Speaker 5: it with the most contempt you could possibly have for

601
00:29:33,480 --> 00:29:35,720
Speaker 5: the fringe left right. And that's probably true on the

602
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:38,240
Speaker 5: fringe fringe right in the way, because if if you're

603
00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:42,000
Speaker 5: a fringe character, you're you're probably not that fun to

604
00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:47,480
Speaker 5: be around, probably annoying in meetings, probably not fun to

605
00:29:47,600 --> 00:29:51,280
Speaker 5: do your little cell block activity with you. And then

606
00:29:51,320 --> 00:29:53,120
Speaker 5: you come out and you think that everybody on the

607
00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:54,840
Speaker 5: left is like that. And I think that I think

608
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:59,440
Speaker 5: Cinema has has some of that that her time with

609
00:29:59,440 --> 00:30:03,320
Speaker 5: with the Green Party, with the Black Block. Their anarchist

610
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,840
Speaker 5: protesters made her think that everybody was like the people

611
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 5: that are in her little block, and so she's taking

612
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 5: it out on the world as a result. And I

613
00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,920
Speaker 5: could see that maybe the same is true for Clarence Thomas,

614
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:17,560
Speaker 5: that he just.

615
00:30:17,720 --> 00:30:19,920
Speaker 4: Was like, Wow, I actually hate you people.

616
00:30:21,560 --> 00:30:25,440
Speaker 3: I don't know. There's some his obviously, his autobiography is

617
00:30:25,480 --> 00:30:28,520
Speaker 3: really a popular book and an excellent book. But yeah,

618
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 3: the intercept story, I think grace is this question of

619
00:30:30,440 --> 00:30:34,240
Speaker 3: whether Crow being a dual citizen has any implications for

620
00:30:34,520 --> 00:30:40,080
Speaker 3: his his giving and any implications for disclosures that would

621
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 3: need to be made.

622
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 5: He's still, you know, since he still has his American citizenship.

623
00:30:43,680 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 5: He's looks like he's good even though. But yeah, like

624
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:49,680
Speaker 5: the wealth that he has, a significant portion of it

625
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:52,520
Speaker 5: is still in his possession because of his other citizenship.

626
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:55,400
Speaker 5: If he had maintained only American citizenship, he would have

627
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 5: less of it would have gone to you and me

628
00:30:57,400 --> 00:30:57,920
Speaker 5: and the rest.

629
00:30:57,760 --> 00:30:58,240
Speaker 4: Of the public.

630
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 5: We could democratically just what to do with it, Send

631
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 5: it to Ukraine, do whatever we wander with it. So

632
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,080
Speaker 5: if put up this second element over at Insider, you

633
00:31:09,160 --> 00:31:14,120
Speaker 5: now have journalists combing through past Supreme Court decisions and

634
00:31:14,160 --> 00:31:18,200
Speaker 5: cases trying to fact check Harlan Chlorow's claim that he

635
00:31:18,240 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 5: never had or Clarence Thomas claim that Harlan Crow never

636
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:24,640
Speaker 5: had business before the Supreme Court. Anybody who's a billionaire

637
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:30,040
Speaker 5: is going to eventually have some business, probably some business

638
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:32,600
Speaker 5: that they are connected with, is going to appear before

639
00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:36,800
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court. Bloomberg's got him busted here with Trammel

640
00:31:36,840 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 5: Crow Residential. It's a case that made it Supreme Court

641
00:31:39,760 --> 00:31:43,080
Speaker 5: in two thousand and five. Clarence Thomas did not accuse

642
00:31:43,160 --> 00:31:49,440
Speaker 5: himself from this one, as our ethics rules would suggest,

643
00:31:49,520 --> 00:31:51,520
Speaker 5: or do they have rules as our ethics kind of

644
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 5: norms suggest that he ought to have.

645
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 3: It's funny, though, because so on that case, I'm thinking,

646
00:31:58,480 --> 00:32:01,080
Speaker 3: and this is totally a one about, but I'm thinking

647
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:05,800
Speaker 3: of how Elena Kagan was the Solicitor General for Obama

648
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:10,760
Speaker 3: during Obamacare and then voted Bamacare and the Obamacare case,

649
00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,680
Speaker 3: And it's like, I mean this stuff the Supreme Court, Like,

650
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:15,280
Speaker 3: like you said, if you're a billionaire, you're going to

651
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:17,200
Speaker 3: end up having a case before the Supreme Court, and

652
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: if you're really powerful, you're going to end up hanging

653
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,360
Speaker 3: out with billionaires, you're going to end up being in

654
00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 3: the solicitor general in an extremely high profile case. And

655
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:26,800
Speaker 3: so again, I think we talked about this last week.

656
00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 3: I'm completely in favor of tighter ethics rules for the

657
00:32:29,960 --> 00:32:33,240
Speaker 3: Supreme Court. I think this speaks to a deeper problem

658
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,080
Speaker 3: and a lot of these reports now, like Politico utterly

659
00:32:36,240 --> 00:32:39,440
Speaker 3: botched a hit on Neil Gorsich, I mean just botched it.

660
00:32:39,480 --> 00:32:43,880
Speaker 3: And even some of the Thomas stuff was like the

661
00:32:43,920 --> 00:32:47,280
Speaker 3: original Thomas reporting had some it was in pro publica,

662
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:49,920
Speaker 3: had some misses in it. And so I just think

663
00:32:50,120 --> 00:32:51,920
Speaker 3: this would all be a lot more credible if they

664
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:54,120
Speaker 3: were doing it across the board, because now there seemed

665
00:32:54,120 --> 00:32:55,720
Speaker 3: to be scraping the bottom of the barrel to get

666
00:32:55,720 --> 00:33:00,000
Speaker 3: even like Borsich without even realizing that no Supreme Court justice.

667
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:04,040
Speaker 3: My colleague David Harsani went and looked and her big

668
00:33:04,080 --> 00:33:07,560
Speaker 3: complaint in that political political story is that he tried

669
00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 3: to conceal a transaction of a land transaction because quote

670
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:13,440
Speaker 3: he did not report the identity of the purchaser. And

671
00:33:13,640 --> 00:33:15,880
Speaker 3: David said, that's true, but he went back and looked

672
00:33:15,920 --> 00:33:18,720
Speaker 3: at all the disclosure forms of Supreme Court justices in

673
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 3: twenty seventeen, and none of them made a notation in

674
00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:24,520
Speaker 3: that box for any transaction. So she's acting as though

675
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 3: this is highly unusual in suspect none of them did that.

676
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,720
Speaker 4: So, but the others had sold property, let.

677
00:33:30,560 --> 00:33:35,200
Speaker 3: Me check, but let's see financial none of them had

678
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:37,400
Speaker 3: filled that out in financial disclosures.

679
00:33:37,440 --> 00:33:41,800
Speaker 4: For previous for previous home sales.

680
00:33:41,840 --> 00:33:44,080
Speaker 3: You mean not just for home sales, but for financial

681
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 3: like their financial transactions.

682
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 4: I see, so right.

683
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:51,080
Speaker 5: Well, I think one thing that's going on here is

684
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,640
Speaker 5: that there has been a kind of social contract that

685
00:33:55,680 --> 00:33:58,200
Speaker 5: the public has had with the Supreme Court, right, which

686
00:33:58,240 --> 00:34:04,160
Speaker 5: is that, look, we you wear black robes, you're you're

687
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:05,560
Speaker 5: not on TV when you make.

688
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,040
Speaker 3: Your You don't clap at the City of the Union,

689
00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:07,840
Speaker 3: you don't clap.

690
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,520
Speaker 4: The State of Union. You're just out there.

691
00:34:09,560 --> 00:34:11,799
Speaker 5: You're making the decisions, and we're going to trust that

692
00:34:11,840 --> 00:34:15,680
Speaker 5: you're making them, uh, you know, somewhat barely, and we're

693
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 5: going to we're going to honor those decisions. We're going

694
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,759
Speaker 5: to mostly likely leave you guys alone and think of

695
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,960
Speaker 5: you as somewhat separate from the democratic process and from

696
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:28,400
Speaker 5: the political process. And I think overturning row for a

697
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:32,160
Speaker 5: lot of people broke that social contract. He said, all right,

698
00:34:32,200 --> 00:34:35,759
Speaker 5: you know what, you guys want to play politicians, you

699
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,239
Speaker 5: want to lead a political movement. We're going to treat

700
00:34:38,280 --> 00:34:41,200
Speaker 5: you like politicians, and we're going to examine your conflicts

701
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:47,200
Speaker 5: of interest. And I think that because of this social contract,

702
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 5: the Supreme Court justices have been rather lazy about their

703
00:34:52,239 --> 00:34:56,000
Speaker 5: kind of adherence to ethical guidelines and their their financial

704
00:34:56,040 --> 00:35:01,239
Speaker 5: their financial disclosure reporting because nobody really cared. It's like

705
00:35:01,880 --> 00:35:03,799
Speaker 5: your Supreme Court was a different thing. It was a

706
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:08,239
Speaker 5: black box with black robes. But now that there are

707
00:35:08,280 --> 00:35:10,520
Speaker 5: people are lifting the lid, I think you're going to

708
00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,799
Speaker 5: find a lot of things like where you're going to say, well,

709
00:35:12,800 --> 00:35:14,319
Speaker 5: you know what, it's not okay that none of them

710
00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:16,520
Speaker 5: filled this out. Yeah, Like we don't trust any of

711
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,399
Speaker 5: you anymore. Like you want to be politicians, you want

712
00:35:19,400 --> 00:35:21,239
Speaker 5: to be political figures. You want to you want to

713
00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,840
Speaker 5: mess with my daily life like this, all right, Well,

714
00:35:25,280 --> 00:35:27,359
Speaker 5: now you're going to have to abide by the same

715
00:35:27,400 --> 00:35:29,080
Speaker 5: standards that we hold everybody else to.

716
00:35:29,320 --> 00:35:32,360
Speaker 3: And I love that. I am completely not just okay

717
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:35,160
Speaker 3: with that, but like eager for that conversation to happen.

718
00:35:35,239 --> 00:35:38,399
Speaker 3: But when you have pro publica saying, for instance, that

719
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:42,239
Speaker 3: Thomas he criticized like a Chevron related case, meant that

720
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,160
Speaker 3: he had a quote newly popular on the right that

721
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:49,480
Speaker 3: would limit government regulation philosophy that is absurd, Like that

722
00:35:49,560 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 3: was in the Pro public original report, which also said

723
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: that he needed to disclose the yacht because it counted

724
00:35:54,719 --> 00:35:58,160
Speaker 3: as transportation in the same way that you know a

725
00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:00,719
Speaker 3: bus would or a plane would the plane transactions. I

726
00:36:00,719 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 3: think we're the plain disclosures I think really should have

727
00:36:03,280 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 3: been made. All this is to say, I'm completely fine

728
00:36:07,040 --> 00:36:09,319
Speaker 3: with having a conversation about ethics on the Supreme Court.

729
00:36:09,520 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 3: What's happening right now is completely, from my perspective, one sided,

730
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,440
Speaker 3: when this needs to be a much broader, deeper conversation,

731
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:19,680
Speaker 3: and the media acting like these are uniquely terrible problems

732
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:22,720
Speaker 3: for Neil Gorsich and Clarence Thomas while turning a blind

733
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:25,000
Speaker 3: eye to the Let's say that the Kagan thing, nobody

734
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,120
Speaker 3: was concerned about that when it happened, except for people

735
00:36:27,120 --> 00:36:30,600
Speaker 3: like conservative bloggers at the time. I just think it's

736
00:36:30,719 --> 00:36:33,560
Speaker 3: it's really unhelpful. Overall.

737
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:35,719
Speaker 4: We're getting get a lot more of it.

738
00:36:35,880 --> 00:36:38,200
Speaker 3: I hope, sir, I mean I hope we get more

739
00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 3: about the ethics conversations, because yeah, I don't think it's

740
00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:45,279
Speaker 3: great to have independent jurists you know who are we

741
00:36:45,320 --> 00:36:48,600
Speaker 3: don't know are really good friends with billionaires and spending

742
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:49,960
Speaker 3: a lot of time with it. I think it's helpful

743
00:36:49,960 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 3: to know that.

744
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:57,919
Speaker 5: Of course, moving on to Abbie Grosberg. So the Ammi

745
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:02,120
Speaker 5: Grosberg is the former looking producer executive booking producer over

746
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,640
Speaker 5: at the Tucker car over at Tucker Carlson's show.

747
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:06,759
Speaker 4: She appeared on MSNBC last night.

748
00:37:06,800 --> 00:37:09,680
Speaker 5: If we put up this first element here, she is

749
00:37:09,719 --> 00:37:15,359
Speaker 5: suing Fox News and Tucker Carlson, claiming a culture of

750
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 5: what's the toxic work environment at his.

751
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,480
Speaker 3: Show, hostile, indiscriminatory.

752
00:37:20,719 --> 00:37:24,080
Speaker 5: Hostile, in discriminatory work environment. There's all sorts of kind

753
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:28,640
Speaker 5: of theories about what the role of her suit has

754
00:37:28,719 --> 00:37:33,359
Speaker 5: been in Tucker Carlson's firing on Monday, and so she

755
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 5: appeared with Nicole Wallace. Let's play a little bit of

756
00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:39,319
Speaker 5: that from last night.

757
00:37:39,960 --> 00:37:43,040
Speaker 6: Where are all of those recordings now? Did Dominion ultimately

758
00:37:43,080 --> 00:37:43,480
Speaker 6: get them?

759
00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:45,399
Speaker 4: I still have.

760
00:37:45,760 --> 00:37:48,480
Speaker 1: I have several recordings that I'm still going through that

761
00:37:48,520 --> 00:37:51,320
Speaker 1: we've recovered from all of the phones. There are ninety

762
00:37:52,360 --> 00:37:56,839
Speaker 1: that we have. I don't know what Fox turned over.

763
00:37:56,960 --> 00:37:59,680
Speaker 1: I do know based on what I've read, that they

764
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:03,840
Speaker 1: did hand over those Sydney and Rudy tapes to them.

765
00:38:04,840 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 1: Fox should have everything. They really should do You have.

766
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:12,960
Speaker 6: You been contacted by Smartmatic? Yes, and you've shared all

767
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:14,919
Speaker 6: the odder recordings of them or whatever.

768
00:38:14,960 --> 00:38:15,800
Speaker 3: I've been subpedent.

769
00:38:16,320 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: We haven't shared anything.

770
00:38:17,239 --> 00:38:19,240
Speaker 6: I've begun the discovery process.

771
00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:19,600
Speaker 3: Are you.

772
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:23,880
Speaker 5: So she also talked, we'll run let's run through these

773
00:38:23,880 --> 00:38:26,960
Speaker 5: clips too. So she also talked about the culture that

774
00:38:27,040 --> 00:38:31,799
Speaker 5: this is her, specifically describing the culture at Tucker's show.

775
00:38:32,719 --> 00:38:34,360
Speaker 1: Early on, they had Andrew Tate on the show, and

776
00:38:34,400 --> 00:38:35,840
Speaker 1: I raised my hand and I said, we have to

777
00:38:35,880 --> 00:38:39,080
Speaker 1: be very mindful that this is two white males together.

778
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 1: And I use the example of Gail King and r

779
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,920
Speaker 1: Kelly saying that she could go in a different direction

780
00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,480
Speaker 1: with that interview that I felt Tucker couldn't.

781
00:38:45,920 --> 00:38:47,560
Speaker 3: And they weren't happy about.

782
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:49,719
Speaker 1: That because they wanted to be a bro fest. They

783
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:51,680
Speaker 1: were all laughing about how fun it would be to

784
00:38:51,680 --> 00:38:53,200
Speaker 1: go to Romania and hang out with him.

785
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:54,720
Speaker 2: They liked his messaging.

786
00:38:54,960 --> 00:38:57,400
Speaker 1: So whenever I said something like that, it put a

787
00:38:57,400 --> 00:38:59,600
Speaker 1: target on my back, and gradually I was shut out

788
00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:04,480
Speaker 1: of meeting, I was mocked, I was eventually demoted. That's

789
00:39:04,480 --> 00:39:06,120
Speaker 1: how it played out for me. And it got worse

790
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:08,160
Speaker 1: and it got worse, and it got worse every time

791
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:08,839
Speaker 1: I spoke out.

792
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 4: I'm sure you have thoughts there plenty.

793
00:39:11,960 --> 00:39:16,040
Speaker 5: Let's let's produce some even deeper thoughts with this last one,

794
00:39:16,040 --> 00:39:18,440
Speaker 5: because this kind of builds on the earlier point. This

795
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 5: is this is her talking about basically her reaction to

796
00:39:22,239 --> 00:39:24,640
Speaker 5: some of the January sixth covers and her involvement in

797
00:39:24,719 --> 00:39:25,160
Speaker 5: some of it.

798
00:39:25,960 --> 00:39:29,239
Speaker 1: When the January sixth tapes were coming out, Tucker was

799
00:39:29,560 --> 00:39:34,640
Speaker 1: very set on finding an FBI person who was implanted

800
00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: in the crowd and spinning this conspiracy that they were

801
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,800
Speaker 1: ultimately the ones responsible for the capital attack, not Fox

802
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,280
Speaker 1: News as they're about to go into the dominion trial,

803
00:39:45,360 --> 00:39:47,600
Speaker 1: that it was really, you know, the FBI that set

804
00:39:47,680 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 1: up this thing, not Fox telling the American people that

805
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:52,960
Speaker 1: the election was rigged and the voting machines did it.

806
00:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,319
Speaker 1: And when I went back to them and said, look,

807
00:39:56,360 --> 00:39:59,920
Speaker 1: there's no conspiracy theory here, I called this attorney that's reper.

808
00:40:00,000 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 1: He's setting one of the proud Boys and he flat

809
00:40:02,080 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 1: out told me on two occasions there is no conspiracy.

810
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,720
Speaker 3: Get away from this stuff. This is dangerous. Tell talker

811
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:12,480
Speaker 3: to stop. Oh, I'm sure that's exactly how it happened.

812
00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 3: This woman worked for Maria Bartiromo for a long time,

813
00:40:16,120 --> 00:40:18,880
Speaker 3: who obviously is named in the dominion suit and probably

814
00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:21,799
Speaker 3: the Smartmatic one as well, and then joined Tucker Show

815
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,440
Speaker 3: in September of last year, quickly after that, testified in

816
00:40:26,520 --> 00:40:32,280
Speaker 3: the dominion suit, and is now claiming this like total

817
00:40:32,480 --> 00:40:37,439
Speaker 3: ideological pivot, is being totally fetted by the media. Given

818
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,080
Speaker 3: all of these interviews and treated by Nicole Wallace there

819
00:40:40,080 --> 00:40:42,200
Speaker 3: and by others, you could say we had the element

820
00:40:42,239 --> 00:40:45,120
Speaker 3: from The New York Times, given these photo shoots, as

821
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,120
Speaker 3: something of a hero, as entirely credible because she's speaking

822
00:40:48,160 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 3: out against Fox News, when of course all of the

823
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:53,640
Speaker 3: incentives in corporate media right now are to speak out

824
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,200
Speaker 3: against Fox News. So I would take everything that she

825
00:40:56,239 --> 00:40:58,279
Speaker 3: says with a giant grain of salt. I have a

826
00:40:58,320 --> 00:41:00,279
Speaker 3: lot more thoughts that I could run through, But Ryan,

827
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:02,720
Speaker 3: what do you make of her conversation with Wallace?

828
00:41:03,719 --> 00:41:07,359
Speaker 5: It's it's just kind of jarring to hear a kind

829
00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 5: of progressive language try attempt to be applied, or social

830
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 5: justice language attempt to be applied to a Tucker Carlson newsroom.

831
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 4: It's like, as if the problem.

832
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 5: With an Andrew Tate interview on Tucker Carlson Show is

833
00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,279
Speaker 5: that it's too many men.

834
00:41:22,560 --> 00:41:24,040
Speaker 3: The guys were excited about it.

835
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:27,120
Speaker 5: Any more jender diversity in your celebration of Andrew Tate

836
00:41:28,239 --> 00:41:31,840
Speaker 5: like like, I don't even know where to go with

837
00:41:31,880 --> 00:41:37,440
Speaker 5: stuff like that. Yeah, it's like it's like diversifying the

838
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,200
Speaker 5: raytheon boardroom. In some ways, it's like, this is still

839
00:41:41,239 --> 00:41:45,040
Speaker 5: Andrew Tate. Where do you think you're going with this?

840
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,680
Speaker 5: So I have no problem believing that Tucker Carlson's newsroom

841
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:52,000
Speaker 5: is worse than a locker room.

842
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:52,719
Speaker 4: I don't.

843
00:41:52,800 --> 00:41:56,799
Speaker 5: I don't like if I'm on that jury. If you're

844
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 5: watching the show, you're like, and she said, I don't

845
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,360
Speaker 5: think she said it these clips, but she said elsewhere

846
00:42:01,880 --> 00:42:04,600
Speaker 5: she said the people that worked for him were true believers. Yeah,

847
00:42:05,120 --> 00:42:07,759
Speaker 5: but she said that as an insult, right, I know,

848
00:42:08,520 --> 00:42:10,200
Speaker 5: which is well, I.

849
00:42:10,160 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 4: Don't like their true beliefs.

850
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:16,200
Speaker 5: However, what are you saying, ue that you want people

851
00:42:16,239 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 5: who spew the kinds of things they spew on the show,

852
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,040
Speaker 5: but don't believe them, right, what does that just doing

853
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:25,680
Speaker 5: it cynically for money and ratings, Right, that's the world

854
00:42:25,800 --> 00:42:27,239
Speaker 5: that you think is appropriate.

855
00:42:27,719 --> 00:42:28,480
Speaker 4: You're radical.

856
00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:31,319
Speaker 3: That is really the key statement from her, because that's

857
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,879
Speaker 3: why she's being trodden out into Nicole Wallace to show

858
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,760
Speaker 3: New York Times MSNBC, because she's not a true believer.

859
00:42:36,840 --> 00:42:39,000
Speaker 3: Because she sat there and took what we know she

860
00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,680
Speaker 3: has like ninety recordings, and she released one of Ted

861
00:42:42,719 --> 00:42:45,720
Speaker 3: Cruz and Maria Barbiromo yesterday that was pretty thoroughly on interesting.

862
00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:48,320
Speaker 3: Ted Cruse saying that twenty twenty should have a board

863
00:42:48,320 --> 00:42:48,600
Speaker 3: like they.

864
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:50,040
Speaker 4: Did, said it on the Senate floor.

865
00:42:50,120 --> 00:42:51,879
Speaker 3: Yeah, he said that on the Senate floor. But if

866
00:42:51,920 --> 00:42:54,800
Speaker 3: you are deplicitous and not deplicitous enough to take a

867
00:42:54,840 --> 00:42:57,719
Speaker 3: paycheck from somebody, record things, pretend to be on the

868
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,920
Speaker 3: same team for literally years and at least when it

869
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,120
Speaker 3: comes to Tucker, then no, you're not a true believer.

870
00:43:03,239 --> 00:43:06,760
Speaker 3: You are taking money and power to further a cause

871
00:43:06,840 --> 00:43:10,080
Speaker 3: that you're uncomfortable with, which is quite a statement in

872
00:43:10,120 --> 00:43:11,960
Speaker 3: and of itself for the media then to not be

873
00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,720
Speaker 3: like questioning her as so, what did you ever believe

874
00:43:15,719 --> 00:43:17,880
Speaker 3: what do you believe now? And why did you book

875
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:20,040
Speaker 3: on these shows that you say are evil for so

876
00:43:20,120 --> 00:43:20,760
Speaker 3: many years?

877
00:43:22,000 --> 00:43:22,200
Speaker 4: Right?

878
00:43:22,239 --> 00:43:25,720
Speaker 5: I just don't see how it's better that you're promoting

879
00:43:25,719 --> 00:43:27,560
Speaker 5: this stuff not believing in it.

880
00:43:27,719 --> 00:43:32,080
Speaker 4: Mm hmm, Well I don't think or like I don't.

881
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,000
Speaker 5: It's who cares whether you believe it or not, Like

882
00:43:35,040 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 5: what the product you're producing is what matters anyway. Just yeah,

883
00:43:38,520 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 5: it's just rather extraordinary to hear that hear that claim

884
00:43:42,680 --> 00:43:45,480
Speaker 5: being made that like the problem, that the real problem

885
00:43:45,640 --> 00:43:49,799
Speaker 5: was that they that they actually believe the things that

886
00:43:49,840 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 5: they were saying.

887
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:54,640
Speaker 3: Yeah, God forbid well and can I just like the

888
00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,799
Speaker 3: there's a really big swath of this country that like

889
00:43:58,000 --> 00:44:02,240
Speaker 3: unfortunately enjoys watching Andrew videos. And if you have followed

890
00:44:02,239 --> 00:44:04,239
Speaker 3: what Tucker has been doing over the last couple of years,

891
00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:07,680
Speaker 3: I don't think he would dispute that he runs a

892
00:44:07,760 --> 00:44:12,120
Speaker 3: newsroom that is comparable to a locker room in some ways.

893
00:44:12,480 --> 00:44:14,840
Speaker 3: Maybe it would be different when you're actually subpoenaed in

894
00:44:14,880 --> 00:44:17,960
Speaker 3: a courtroom, you would have to describe your newsroom a

895
00:44:17,960 --> 00:44:20,560
Speaker 3: little bit differently. But I don't think he would dispute

896
00:44:20,560 --> 00:44:23,560
Speaker 3: that it's like a masculine environment because a lot of

897
00:44:23,600 --> 00:44:26,240
Speaker 3: what he talks about is that we've you know, overly

898
00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,439
Speaker 3: feminized places, and he truly, truly believes that that men

899
00:44:29,520 --> 00:44:34,239
Speaker 3: don't have the same outlets for their like natural impulses

900
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,960
Speaker 3: that they used to. And you can disagree with that

901
00:44:36,080 --> 00:44:37,959
Speaker 3: or not, but he does really believe that his team

902
00:44:38,000 --> 00:44:38,680
Speaker 3: really believes that.

903
00:44:39,640 --> 00:44:40,080
Speaker 4: On TV.

904
00:44:40,320 --> 00:44:41,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean, he definitely believes that.

905
00:44:41,960 --> 00:44:44,879
Speaker 4: And if you would, she's saying that he really does, right, yes,

906
00:44:44,920 --> 00:44:45,600
Speaker 4: and I mean.

907
00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,640
Speaker 3: He absolutely does. And it's like consistent of his work

908
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:50,280
Speaker 3: over the course of years. And that's why he's interested

909
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:52,840
Speaker 3: in Andrew Tait, because Andrew Tate talks about those things.

910
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:54,880
Speaker 3: It's not to say he like, I don't know, I

911
00:44:54,880 --> 00:44:56,879
Speaker 3: didn't watch the Andrew Tate thing. It's not to say

912
00:44:56,920 --> 00:44:59,840
Speaker 3: that he's completely endorsing Andrew Tait, and I would disagree

913
00:44:59,880 --> 00:45:01,919
Speaker 3: with that if he did. But the point is it's

914
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:06,920
Speaker 3: consistent with his beliefs, and those beliefs are not completely

915
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 3: out of touch with the with a chunk of people

916
00:45:10,360 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 3: in America who have zero voice in media. Everyone in

917
00:45:13,040 --> 00:45:16,600
Speaker 3: media says this is evil. You know, Andrew Tate bad.

918
00:45:16,680 --> 00:45:18,799
Speaker 3: You're bad. If you ever watched Andrew Tit, if you

919
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,960
Speaker 3: ever looked at Andrew Tate, you're also a bigot and

920
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:25,000
Speaker 3: the sexist. And if you have one voice in all

921
00:45:25,040 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 3: of the media who's willing to engage with Andrew Tate

922
00:45:27,360 --> 00:45:29,560
Speaker 3: and do an interview with him, acting like that's the

923
00:45:29,640 --> 00:45:32,319
Speaker 3: end of the world, I think is silly and it's

924
00:45:32,360 --> 00:45:34,359
Speaker 3: funny to see her just get treated like this by

925
00:45:34,440 --> 00:45:35,280
Speaker 3: the corporate press.

926
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,320
Speaker 5: Well, I mean, I think Andrew Tates is deplorable. Figures

927
00:45:39,360 --> 00:45:42,200
Speaker 5: you can have. He's facing credible charge. Don't disagree with

928
00:45:42,280 --> 00:45:45,399
Speaker 5: rape and sex trafficking out in Romania. Even to get

929
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:51,080
Speaker 5: charged with sex trafficking in roman almost impossible. He even said,

930
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,319
Speaker 5: like out loud, like when he was going there, like

931
00:45:53,600 --> 00:45:55,719
Speaker 5: he was there because of the loose laws around that,

932
00:45:56,200 --> 00:45:59,480
Speaker 5: so you have to have really done something. It's like

933
00:45:59,480 --> 00:46:03,719
Speaker 5: getting speeding on the autubn So good lord, Well, we

934
00:46:04,000 --> 00:46:06,120
Speaker 5: can't even imagine what he was what he was up to.

935
00:46:06,880 --> 00:46:10,200
Speaker 5: But the idea that like it would be okay to

936
00:46:10,640 --> 00:46:16,120
Speaker 5: platform promote that type that that type of ideology without

937
00:46:16,239 --> 00:46:17,600
Speaker 5: kind of rebutting it. I think if you want to

938
00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:21,239
Speaker 5: rebut it, yeah, then then I think people should do

939
00:46:21,280 --> 00:46:25,000
Speaker 5: that because obviously the alternative isn't working, Like he has

940
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:28,040
Speaker 5: spread like wildfire around around the entire world. But the

941
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,640
Speaker 5: idea that the only thing you really need to do

942
00:46:29,719 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 5: is make sure you have gender sensitivity and gender diversity

943
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,640
Speaker 5: in the platforming of it, to me, is just mind boggling.

944
00:46:37,800 --> 00:46:38,000
Speaker 4: Yeah.

945
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,839
Speaker 3: No, I agree on that, and totally agree that if

946
00:46:40,840 --> 00:46:42,400
Speaker 3: you're if you're going to interview him, give him an

947
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:44,880
Speaker 3: extremely tough interview and ask all of the questions that

948
00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 3: need to be asked. But this idea that just to

949
00:46:46,800 --> 00:46:50,160
Speaker 3: engage with him at all, even though he's like very popular,

950
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,400
Speaker 3: surgingly has a surging popularity at the time of that interview,

951
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,799
Speaker 3: I mean, that's absurd and out of the sort of

952
00:46:57,800 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 3: spirit of journalism.

953
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 5: And I think what I mean about not having a

954
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,719
Speaker 5: hard time believing that there's a toxic work environment in

955
00:47:03,760 --> 00:47:06,400
Speaker 5: his office is that if you take the standard corporate

956
00:47:06,560 --> 00:47:10,239
Speaker 5: HR definition of a of a toxic work environment and

957
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:14,480
Speaker 5: you just say the things that he says on his show,

958
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:17,480
Speaker 5: like his show, like the things that we know he

959
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:22,000
Speaker 5: said in public on his show, would land any manager

960
00:47:22,040 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 5: in HR reviews like any day of the week at

961
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,279
Speaker 5: almost any company in this country. So the idea that

962
00:47:29,320 --> 00:47:33,160
Speaker 5: like that there was a work environment that a normal

963
00:47:33,320 --> 00:47:35,319
Speaker 5: HR apart would classify as toxic.

964
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:38,759
Speaker 4: Seems to me rather easy to demonstrate.

965
00:47:39,080 --> 00:47:41,279
Speaker 3: Well, we'll have to agree to disagree on that point,

966
00:47:41,320 --> 00:47:44,520
Speaker 3: because I would argue that's says more about the normal

967
00:47:44,680 --> 00:47:45,920
Speaker 3: HR department than right.

968
00:47:46,000 --> 00:47:48,360
Speaker 5: Right, But you would agree that it would violate the

969
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,640
Speaker 5: HR totally like the current understanding of what a toxic

970
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:52,480
Speaker 5: work environment would be.

971
00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,840
Speaker 3: Absolutely, yeah, I think that would probably not be a

972
00:47:54,920 --> 00:47:56,320
Speaker 3: terribly difficult.

973
00:47:56,239 --> 00:47:58,840
Speaker 4: To press play on this show.

974
00:48:00,239 --> 00:48:02,879
Speaker 3: All right, Well, let's move on to doctor Fauci, who

975
00:48:03,280 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 3: did a sat for a very long interview in the

976
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:08,839
Speaker 3: New York Times that was published this week. He said

977
00:48:08,920 --> 00:48:11,920
Speaker 3: had some interesting things to say. One of my favorites

978
00:48:12,120 --> 00:48:15,319
Speaker 3: is he says, when people say, quote Fauci shut down

979
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:18,200
Speaker 3: the economy, it wasn't Fauci, referring to himself as the

980
00:48:18,239 --> 00:48:21,840
Speaker 3: third person. The CDC was the organization that made those recommendations.

981
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:26,160
Speaker 3: I happen to be perceived as the personification of the recommendations.

982
00:48:26,440 --> 00:48:28,680
Speaker 3: But show me a school that I shut down, and

983
00:48:28,719 --> 00:48:31,600
Speaker 3: show me a factory that I shut down. Never, I

984
00:48:31,800 --> 00:48:34,880
Speaker 3: never did. I gave a public health recommendation that echoed

985
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:39,399
Speaker 3: the CDC's recommendation, and people made a decision. Based on that.

986
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:43,000
Speaker 3: All right, let's actually just roll right into the SOT.

987
00:48:43,040 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 3: We have e two here. You can make your own

988
00:48:45,280 --> 00:48:48,000
Speaker 3: decision up based on what Fauci just said there and

989
00:48:48,000 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 3: what Fauci says here.

990
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:54,000
Speaker 7: I recommended to the president that we shut the country down,

991
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,759
Speaker 7: and that was very difficult decision because I knew it

992
00:48:58,760 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 7: would have serious economic consequences.

993
00:49:02,560 --> 00:49:05,279
Speaker 3: All right, So technically not mutually exclusive there he's saying,

994
00:49:05,320 --> 00:49:08,040
Speaker 3: I recommended to the President that we shut the country down.

995
00:49:08,040 --> 00:49:09,759
Speaker 3: But you can see how he's much more eager to

996
00:49:09,800 --> 00:49:13,800
Speaker 3: take credit for having a pivotal voice in those recommendations,

997
00:49:13,800 --> 00:49:16,719
Speaker 3: for being one of the recommenders that actually mattered and

998
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:19,160
Speaker 3: convinced Donald Trump to shut the country down. And then

999
00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:21,080
Speaker 3: when it's not convenient for him to take credit for

1000
00:49:21,120 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 3: he said, well, I I was just one of the

1001
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:25,560
Speaker 3: many people making recommendations that would echo the CDC.

1002
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:29,000
Speaker 5: Ron De Santas if he actually does end up running,

1003
00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,680
Speaker 5: will love to make hay out of that distinction. Oh say,

1004
00:49:32,719 --> 00:49:35,960
Speaker 5: actually it wasn't Fauci, it was shut down Trump. I'm

1005
00:49:36,040 --> 00:49:38,520
Speaker 5: still want to shut down the economy because he was

1006
00:49:38,719 --> 00:49:40,720
Speaker 5: you know, he had Anthony Fauci in his ear, couldn't

1007
00:49:40,760 --> 00:49:44,120
Speaker 5: stand up to five foot five Anthony Fauci.

1008
00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:46,439
Speaker 3: As Desanta's referred to him as an elf that needed

1009
00:49:46,480 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 3: to be chucked into the Potomac. And further he there

1010
00:49:51,440 --> 00:49:55,320
Speaker 3: are they're actually already fighting about this about the shutdown timeline,

1011
00:49:56,920 --> 00:49:58,720
Speaker 3: and Desantas isn't even a declared candidate.

1012
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:02,640
Speaker 5: There you go, right, just to have just that intuitive

1013
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:04,359
Speaker 5: sense of what these Republicans are going.

1014
00:50:04,320 --> 00:50:07,279
Speaker 4: To go out of, there you go. But to me,

1015
00:50:07,360 --> 00:50:08,480
Speaker 4: Fauci should just own it.

1016
00:50:10,560 --> 00:50:13,680
Speaker 5: Trying to make a distinction between Okay, yes, we can

1017
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:17,320
Speaker 5: all agree that Fauci was not a dictator in twenty

1018
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,799
Speaker 5: twenty and was not able to just buy his own

1019
00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:24,880
Speaker 5: pen kind of dictate American policy. There was a process

1020
00:50:25,280 --> 00:50:30,920
Speaker 5: that was involved in Anthony Fauci's kind of public policy

1021
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:33,719
Speaker 5: ideas becoming the policy ideas that we all followed, and

1022
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:37,000
Speaker 5: that involved, you know, him talking to the President, him

1023
00:50:37,000 --> 00:50:39,560
Speaker 5: talking to the CDC, and him talking to the media

1024
00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:42,600
Speaker 5: and becoming kind of the face of the COVID response.

1025
00:50:42,600 --> 00:50:44,360
Speaker 5: So it would to me, it would just be so

1026
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:48,000
Speaker 5: much more helpful as we're thinking through our response to

1027
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:50,319
Speaker 5: the pandemic if he would just say, yeah, these were

1028
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,640
Speaker 5: my recommendations. Here's how I think about them in hindsight,

1029
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:59,319
Speaker 5: and he can even say, like, look in like in

1030
00:50:59,360 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 5: the moment, you're never going to get every single call

1031
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 5: correctly in an unprecedented scenario. Here's the here's the information

1032
00:51:07,320 --> 00:51:09,080
Speaker 5: that I had, and here's why I made the decision.

1033
00:51:09,120 --> 00:51:11,320
Speaker 5: Here's the reasons I think it was a good decision.

1034
00:51:11,360 --> 00:51:13,319
Speaker 5: Here's the reasons I think it wasn't. Instead, he's going

1035
00:51:13,360 --> 00:51:16,680
Speaker 5: to get all tangled up in well, look, man, I

1036
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:17,719
Speaker 5: was just spitballing.

1037
00:51:17,840 --> 00:51:21,200
Speaker 4: It was it was Trump that really kind of you know,

1038
00:51:21,280 --> 00:51:21,839
Speaker 4: ran the show.

1039
00:51:22,000 --> 00:51:24,480
Speaker 3: Or blame the CDC. He keeps like blaming the CDC,

1040
00:51:24,600 --> 00:51:26,759
Speaker 3: acting as though that his why did you make the

1041
00:51:26,800 --> 00:51:29,919
Speaker 3: recommendation if it didn't matter, doctor Fauci, Go ahead, right.

1042
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:32,720
Speaker 5: He wants to blame the CDC, except when he doesn't

1043
00:51:32,880 --> 00:51:34,719
Speaker 5: want to defer to them when it comes to the

1044
00:51:34,760 --> 00:51:35,880
Speaker 5: origin of the pandemic.

1045
00:51:35,960 --> 00:51:37,799
Speaker 3: Right, yeah, so no, of course not. And let's put

1046
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:39,760
Speaker 3: E three up on the screen. He got into masking

1047
00:51:39,880 --> 00:51:42,960
Speaker 3: as well, and this really I saw some people reacting

1048
00:51:43,000 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 3: to this rightfully with a lot of anger. He says,

1049
00:51:46,080 --> 00:51:48,640
Speaker 3: from a broad public house standpoint. At the population level,

1050
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 3: masks work at the margins, maybe ten percent He goes

1051
00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:54,320
Speaker 3: on to say that if you wear like a properly

1052
00:51:54,360 --> 00:51:58,080
Speaker 3: fitted Canaan and ninety five, you know they really do work.

1053
00:51:58,120 --> 00:52:01,000
Speaker 3: That's his take. But again, and it's just he's so

1054
00:52:01,480 --> 00:52:05,120
Speaker 3: flippant about saying these things that a couple of years

1055
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,719
Speaker 3: ago were really affecting the daily lives of many, many,

1056
00:52:08,719 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 3: many Americans. And here's another one, Like to your point, Ryan,

1057
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:14,279
Speaker 3: he sort of toes the line, like he creeps up

1058
00:52:14,280 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 3: to the line of taking some blame and accountability. He

1059
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:19,520
Speaker 3: says when asked by The New York Times, this is

1060
00:52:19,520 --> 00:52:22,080
Speaker 3: actually a pretty tough interview, and Fauci at a couple

1061
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:25,040
Speaker 3: points gets upset with the interviewer. I think also reflects

1062
00:52:25,040 --> 00:52:27,760
Speaker 3: an incredible sense of entitlement. But he says, we probably

1063
00:52:27,760 --> 00:52:30,120
Speaker 3: should have communicated better that the clinical trials about the

1064
00:52:30,200 --> 00:52:32,840
Speaker 3: vaccines were only powered to look at the effect on

1065
00:52:32,920 --> 00:52:37,600
Speaker 3: clinically recognizable disease symptomatic disease, So saying, you know, we

1066
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:40,840
Speaker 3: should have communicated better that the vaccines weren't going to

1067
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 3: function like vaccines that people think of when they think

1068
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:45,960
Speaker 3: of the definition of what a vaccine is. So he

1069
00:52:46,120 --> 00:52:48,880
Speaker 3: sort of flirts with taking some accountability. He says, we

1070
00:52:48,920 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 3: probably should have communicated better, and then goes into this

1071
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:55,719
Speaker 3: like dense medical language. And also, here's another quote from

1072
00:52:55,760 --> 00:52:57,759
Speaker 3: the interview. Did we say that the elderly one much

1073
00:52:57,800 --> 00:52:58,400
Speaker 3: more vulnerable?

1074
00:52:58,560 --> 00:52:58,759
Speaker 1: Yes?

1075
00:52:58,840 --> 00:53:02,400
Speaker 3: Did we say it over and over and over again, yes, yes, yes.

1076
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:05,000
Speaker 3: But somehow or other, the general public didn't get that

1077
00:53:05,080 --> 00:53:08,520
Speaker 3: feeling that the vulnerable are really really heavily weighted toward

1078
00:53:08,600 --> 00:53:12,400
Speaker 3: the elderly. So again he continues to blame the public.

1079
00:53:12,480 --> 00:53:14,920
Speaker 3: You see this over and over in the interview, where

1080
00:53:14,960 --> 00:53:19,600
Speaker 3: he's completely saying, listen, we did what we were supposed

1081
00:53:19,640 --> 00:53:22,280
Speaker 3: to do, but the public is just so dumb and angry.

1082
00:53:22,360 --> 00:53:26,279
Speaker 3: He continues to blame divisiveness. He invokes that word over

1083
00:53:26,320 --> 00:53:29,320
Speaker 3: and over again, as though it's a totally detached phenomenon

1084
00:53:29,320 --> 00:53:31,560
Speaker 3: from him, that he would have nothing to do with

1085
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:34,080
Speaker 3: that divisiveness, even though he changed his tune on masks,

1086
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:36,000
Speaker 3: even though he changes tune on a number of different

1087
00:53:36,000 --> 00:53:39,439
Speaker 3: issues lap League, for instance, we have emails that show

1088
00:53:39,480 --> 00:53:43,400
Speaker 3: he's saying things differently in public and in private. He

1089
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 3: is not willing to grapple with any of that. Instead,

1090
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 3: what he does is continue to just sort of use

1091
00:53:47,760 --> 00:53:52,959
Speaker 3: this language that superficially admits some minor mistakes here and there,

1092
00:53:53,280 --> 00:53:56,520
Speaker 3: but then blames it on the public for being too

1093
00:53:56,600 --> 00:54:00,160
Speaker 3: dumb and too divided to really understand what he was saying.

1094
00:54:00,440 --> 00:54:04,000
Speaker 5: I do think that so many people experienced the pandemic

1095
00:54:04,040 --> 00:54:07,439
Speaker 5: personally that it did break through that the elderly were

1096
00:54:07,640 --> 00:54:09,720
Speaker 5: much more vulnerable than others.

1097
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 4: And also.

1098
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:16,239
Speaker 5: The morbidly obese was the was the comorbidity that was

1099
00:54:16,840 --> 00:54:20,319
Speaker 5: so tightly associated with it, which everybody kind of stayed

1100
00:54:20,360 --> 00:54:24,279
Speaker 5: away from, including Fauci, for I think sensitivity reasons that

1101
00:54:24,680 --> 00:54:25,799
Speaker 5: were backfired on.

1102
00:54:25,840 --> 00:54:27,240
Speaker 4: You know, for a lot of people.

1103
00:54:27,800 --> 00:54:30,200
Speaker 5: But I do think that that gets to his kind

1104
00:54:30,239 --> 00:54:33,960
Speaker 5: of his fundamental flaw, which was a lack of trust

1105
00:54:34,040 --> 00:54:37,799
Speaker 5: in the public and a misunderstanding of the kind of

1106
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:41,560
Speaker 5: government's ability to influence public opinion in an era of

1107
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:45,480
Speaker 5: social media and divided kind of media loyalties. And so

1108
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,200
Speaker 5: I think what he felt like was, I'm going to

1109
00:54:49,480 --> 00:54:53,400
Speaker 5: air on the side of fudging. I'm going to say that,

1110
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,399
Speaker 5: you know, the herd immunity is this much closer than

1111
00:54:57,440 --> 00:55:00,919
Speaker 5: it really is, because I don't trust people will reach

1112
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 5: the goal of heart immunity, I might say, where it

1113
00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,120
Speaker 5: is like he has said that he was wrong about that,

1114
00:55:05,520 --> 00:55:06,919
Speaker 5: or that he lied about that.

1115
00:55:07,440 --> 00:55:07,560
Speaker 4: Uh.

1116
00:55:07,760 --> 00:55:11,000
Speaker 5: He admitted that he lied about masks early on because

1117
00:55:11,040 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 5: he said he was nervous that the public would panic

1118
00:55:14,080 --> 00:55:15,840
Speaker 5: and would go out and buy up all the masks,

1119
00:55:15,840 --> 00:55:19,000
Speaker 5: and so he kind of lied about their affectiveness early,

1120
00:55:19,080 --> 00:55:20,760
Speaker 5: undermining his his own authority.

1121
00:55:21,280 --> 00:55:26,400
Speaker 4: And I think he's he didn't lean into the.

1122
00:55:26,440 --> 00:55:31,319
Speaker 5: Vulnerability of the elderly population more because he's saying he

1123
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:33,360
Speaker 5: regrets it, but he didn't do it because he was

1124
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,319
Speaker 5: nervous that if he said that that some people would

1125
00:55:36,320 --> 00:55:40,640
Speaker 5: read it as a well, that population is more vulnerable,

1126
00:55:40,960 --> 00:55:43,560
Speaker 5: therefore I'm less vulnerable. Therefore I'm not going to care

1127
00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,360
Speaker 5: about any of these precautions. And so he went overboard,

1128
00:55:47,840 --> 00:55:51,279
Speaker 5: and he aired on the side of telling everybody that

1129
00:55:51,280 --> 00:55:55,560
Speaker 5: they're they're they're more vulnerable than they than they actually

1130
00:55:55,640 --> 00:55:58,760
Speaker 5: might have been. And then that ends up undercutting his

1131
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:01,120
Speaker 5: his authority and the eyes of a lot of people.

1132
00:56:01,360 --> 00:56:04,640
Speaker 3: And I think one of the reasons, I think one

1133
00:56:04,640 --> 00:56:10,040
Speaker 3: of the reasons that he people interpreted them as not saying,

1134
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:11,920
Speaker 3: you know, the elderly were the most vulnerable over and

1135
00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:14,319
Speaker 3: over again is because the guidelines that he recommended that

1136
00:56:14,360 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 3: the CDC put out treated everybody as though they were

1137
00:56:17,360 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 3: just as vulnerable as the elderly, and locked everyone down

1138
00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,760
Speaker 3: and didn't do a whole lot of like isolating vulnerable

1139
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:27,840
Speaker 3: populations for in some cases sensitivity reasons. But anyway that

1140
00:56:28,000 --> 00:56:30,520
Speaker 3: basically everybody was limped into that category. We do have

1141
00:56:30,560 --> 00:56:34,520
Speaker 3: one more on one of Ryan's hobby horses here from

1142
00:56:34,560 --> 00:56:35,640
Speaker 3: the interview of.

1143
00:56:35,719 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 4: Josh Rogan's tweet here, Yeah, this is E four.

1144
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:43,400
Speaker 3: He started talking about the lamp League Facchi says, there,

1145
00:56:44,960 --> 00:56:48,160
Speaker 3: I guess quote is actually really fun funny. He agrees

1146
00:56:48,200 --> 00:56:50,319
Speaker 3: that it was not. He says all Intel agencies quote

1147
00:56:50,360 --> 00:56:53,120
Speaker 3: agreed that this was not an engineered virus. He says

1148
00:56:53,120 --> 00:56:55,799
Speaker 3: the D and I assessment says quote most assessed with

1149
00:56:55,840 --> 00:56:59,880
Speaker 3: low con confidence quote, probably not engineered. He also says

1150
00:57:00,440 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 3: if it escaped a lab, even if it did escape

1151
00:57:02,680 --> 00:57:06,000
Speaker 3: a lab, quote, that ain't a lab leak. What did

1152
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:06,520
Speaker 3: you make of that?

1153
00:57:06,640 --> 00:57:07,120
Speaker 4: Right?

1154
00:57:07,160 --> 00:57:10,960
Speaker 5: So his argument is that if somebody went to a cave,

1155
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 5: you know, a couple hundred or a couple thousand miles

1156
00:57:13,800 --> 00:57:20,880
Speaker 5: away from wuhan collected bat samples, got infected doing that work,

1157
00:57:21,800 --> 00:57:26,080
Speaker 5: came back to the lab, left the lab, went to

1158
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:30,760
Speaker 5: went around Wuhan and spread the virus. That that that's

1159
00:57:30,920 --> 00:57:33,640
Speaker 5: not a lab leak. I think what he means by

1160
00:57:33,640 --> 00:57:36,560
Speaker 5: a lab leak, which is actually disturbing. If this is

1161
00:57:36,560 --> 00:57:39,400
Speaker 5: where his mind goes, because it means that it's something

1162
00:57:39,440 --> 00:57:42,840
Speaker 5: he's thought a lot about. I would hope so he

1163
00:57:42,920 --> 00:57:45,760
Speaker 5: was funding it, But then right, why why are you

1164
00:57:45,760 --> 00:57:48,440
Speaker 5: continuing to fund it? What he would what he seems

1165
00:57:48,480 --> 00:57:50,120
Speaker 5: to think of as a lab leak is that you

1166
00:57:50,200 --> 00:57:56,080
Speaker 5: are specifically engineering a kind of very highly pathogenic virus

1167
00:57:56,920 --> 00:58:03,040
Speaker 5: and then that leaks out, right, rather than you're collecting

1168
00:58:03,240 --> 00:58:04,720
Speaker 5: viruses doing work.

1169
00:58:04,480 --> 00:58:06,800
Speaker 4: On them and because of poor.

1170
00:58:09,040 --> 00:58:12,800
Speaker 5: Because of poor kind of ppe that you get infected

1171
00:58:13,280 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 5: and then you and then your workers leave. That that's

1172
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:20,720
Speaker 5: somehow not a lab leaku, which is that's That's one

1173
00:58:20,760 --> 00:58:22,760
Speaker 5: of the most frightening things I've heard, because if he's like,

1174
00:58:23,480 --> 00:58:27,680
Speaker 5: if public policy officials and politicians are coming to him

1175
00:58:28,040 --> 00:58:30,800
Speaker 5: and coming to the NIH in general and saying, look,

1176
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,720
Speaker 5: we want to make sure that there are no lablaks

1177
00:58:33,800 --> 00:58:35,960
Speaker 5: going on when it comes to the work that you're

1178
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 5: doing around here, and his mind goes to a place, Oh, no,

1179
00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:44,040
Speaker 5: don't worry, there's no labliks. Just maybe a couple of

1180
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,360
Speaker 5: researchers getting infected and spreading viruses that they're working on

1181
00:58:48,240 --> 00:58:49,840
Speaker 5: and producing pandemics.

1182
00:58:50,760 --> 00:58:51,840
Speaker 4: But that's not a lablak.

1183
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:54,200
Speaker 5: And if you don't know how his mind is working,

1184
00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:56,120
Speaker 5: you don't know to ask that follow up question.

1185
00:58:56,920 --> 00:58:58,960
Speaker 4: All you hear is, oh, we're good.

1186
00:58:59,320 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 3: It's a incredible because he even talks in this interview

1187
00:59:01,640 --> 00:59:03,439
Speaker 3: about his back and forth with Rand Paul on gain

1188
00:59:03,440 --> 00:59:06,040
Speaker 3: of function the definition of gain a gain of function,

1189
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 3: and it's the same tactic. He's doing the same thing

1190
00:59:08,560 --> 00:59:10,280
Speaker 3: with the lab Liak definition that he did with a

1191
00:59:10,320 --> 00:59:13,800
Speaker 3: gain of function definition. He tries to exhaust the interviewer

1192
00:59:14,240 --> 00:59:19,000
Speaker 3: by filibustering with these completely abstruse medical definitions of what is,

1193
00:59:19,160 --> 00:59:22,160
Speaker 3: what isn't and like how this is, you know, really

1194
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:26,760
Speaker 3: semantically not technically a gain of function, not technically a

1195
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:28,800
Speaker 3: lab leak, and all of it is just like this

1196
00:59:28,920 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 3: incredible cover for things we don't we still don't have

1197
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:36,120
Speaker 3: answers from him about And for him to just sit

1198
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,240
Speaker 3: there and say, you know, if anything, what all we

1199
00:59:38,320 --> 00:59:41,480
Speaker 3: did wrong was underestimate the idiocy of the American public,

1200
00:59:41,600 --> 00:59:44,560
Speaker 3: I just think is like unbelievable. And if I were

1201
00:59:45,600 --> 00:59:48,120
Speaker 3: anyone close to doctor Facci, I would I would recommend

1202
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,520
Speaker 3: that he stopped doing interviews at this point because the

1203
00:59:50,520 --> 00:59:53,880
Speaker 3: more he talks, the more fodder there is. To just realize,

1204
00:59:54,280 --> 00:59:56,960
Speaker 3: the well that this is springing from is one that

1205
00:59:57,080 --> 01:00:00,760
Speaker 3: is very much and I understand like he's been attacked

1206
01:00:00,760 --> 01:00:03,600
Speaker 3: more than anyone, I think for some good reason, but

1207
01:00:04,040 --> 01:00:07,000
Speaker 3: just psychologically, you're going to feel like you're in trench

1208
01:00:07,040 --> 01:00:09,919
Speaker 3: warfare and you have to lash out at everyone. It's

1209
01:00:09,960 --> 01:00:10,600
Speaker 3: not a good.

1210
01:00:10,400 --> 01:00:13,120
Speaker 4: Look, right, not even look at all.

1211
01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,400
Speaker 5: A new report from Michael Schellenberger. If you put this

1212
01:00:18,440 --> 01:00:21,680
Speaker 5: first element up here called United Nations, Harvard and Facebook,

1213
01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:25,680
Speaker 5: Google launch push for censorship worldwide, Emily, this is something

1214
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:26,360
Speaker 5: you wanted to talk about.

1215
01:00:27,800 --> 01:00:28,800
Speaker 4: You what do you find in here?

1216
01:00:29,120 --> 01:00:31,920
Speaker 3: Yeah, well, we have a lot of conversations about the

1217
01:00:32,040 --> 01:00:37,440
Speaker 3: dangers of exporting classical liberalism from the Western world elsewhere.

1218
01:00:37,560 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 3: And I can't think of a better example of that

1219
01:00:40,560 --> 01:00:42,840
Speaker 3: in How that Happens in twenty twenty three than the

1220
01:00:42,880 --> 01:00:45,680
Speaker 3: Schollenberger story that broke as we were preparing yesterday's show.

1221
01:00:46,000 --> 01:00:48,040
Speaker 3: Let me just read from his lead here. He writes,

1222
01:00:48,040 --> 01:00:51,480
Speaker 3: the United Nations is training people worldwide to demand censorship

1223
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:54,760
Speaker 3: by social media platforms of their fellow citizens for quote

1224
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,920
Speaker 3: potentially harmful content. At least one US government funded group,

1225
01:00:59,200 --> 01:01:02,920
Speaker 3: the Atlantic Council, is involved. Now. This UN program, at

1226
01:01:02,920 --> 01:01:07,440
Speaker 3: Shallenberger reports, is hilariously called quote social Media for Peace,

1227
01:01:07,640 --> 01:01:10,400
Speaker 3: with the number four not actually spelling out the word.

1228
01:01:10,400 --> 01:01:12,280
Speaker 3: I guess that makes it a little bit more hip.

1229
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 3: It's a pilot program for pro censorship activist based in Bosnia, Herzegovina, Colombia, Indonesia,

1230
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,440
Speaker 3: and Kenya. So those countries are like their test cases

1231
01:01:22,720 --> 01:01:27,480
Speaker 3: that the UN and UNESCO are all using social media

1232
01:01:27,520 --> 01:01:32,160
Speaker 3: four piece again four piece to export. It's also funded

1233
01:01:32,200 --> 01:01:35,240
Speaker 3: by the EU. According to the ENESCO website, it had

1234
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:39,000
Speaker 3: some online meetings for these censorship workers in Kenya and

1235
01:01:39,080 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 3: Colombia both this week and last week. According to Shallenberger's report,

1236
01:01:43,800 --> 01:01:46,800
Speaker 3: the UN effort, as he continues to emphasizes research and

1237
01:01:46,880 --> 01:01:50,240
Speaker 3: quote monitoring, but as in the US, the explicit goal

1238
01:01:50,320 --> 01:01:54,480
Speaker 3: is to pressure social media platforms to censor disfavored voices.

1239
01:01:54,560 --> 01:01:57,920
Speaker 3: I actually went and looked on the website for this

1240
01:01:58,000 --> 01:02:01,720
Speaker 3: effort to pull some quotes for myself, because it's as

1241
01:02:01,760 --> 01:02:03,640
Speaker 3: bad as you would expect. It sounds right like some

1242
01:02:03,680 --> 01:02:05,840
Speaker 3: of this stuff is really legitimate, And Matt Tayeedi this

1243
01:02:05,880 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 3: week actually published a very good long essay by somebody

1244
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 3: who worked reasonably in this disinformation space for a very

1245
01:02:12,400 --> 01:02:15,200
Speaker 3: long time, but has come to be disillusioned with the

1246
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,560
Speaker 3: efforts to actually track disinformation because it's turned into a weapon.

1247
01:02:20,240 --> 01:02:22,840
Speaker 3: The ruling sort of class has turned it into a

1248
01:02:22,880 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 3: weapon to marginalize people who disagree with everyone else, who

1249
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:31,880
Speaker 3: disagree with their perspectives on economics, on everything from A

1250
01:02:32,040 --> 01:02:35,600
Speaker 3: to Z, by increasing that definition, inflating that definition of

1251
01:02:35,600 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 3: what constitutes misinformation and disinformation simply to alternative facts, facts

1252
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:43,440
Speaker 3: that they disagree with. And so there is a really

1253
01:02:43,440 --> 01:02:46,600
Speaker 3: there's a right way of course to combat propaganda, and

1254
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:50,280
Speaker 3: on global scale. Absolutely, there's nothing wrong with helping people

1255
01:02:50,360 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 3: do that. That's not what this is. That's not what

1256
01:02:52,600 --> 01:02:56,160
Speaker 3: the entire censorship industrial complex is doing. They're able to

1257
01:02:56,200 --> 01:02:59,120
Speaker 3: couch it in really friendly language, but listen, this is

1258
01:02:59,120 --> 01:03:01,840
Speaker 3: from their website. Social media are increasingly used as an

1259
01:03:01,840 --> 01:03:05,400
Speaker 3: information source in electoral processes. This means that while they

1260
01:03:05,520 --> 01:03:08,160
Speaker 3: enable greater access to information, they can also be used

1261
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 3: to distort the information ecosystem in a divisive manner and

1262
01:03:12,120 --> 01:03:17,040
Speaker 3: influence voters with manipulative or deceptive messages, all right, manipulative

1263
01:03:17,320 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 3: or deceptive that is doing a whole lot of work.

1264
01:03:19,840 --> 01:03:23,720
Speaker 3: That can range from somebody doing what is actually manipulative

1265
01:03:23,840 --> 01:03:28,120
Speaker 3: and deceptive. For instance, who's the I forget the name,

1266
01:03:28,200 --> 01:03:32,440
Speaker 3: Robert Mackie, the guy who just I think was wrongfully punished,

1267
01:03:32,480 --> 01:03:35,720
Speaker 3: overly punished for putting out a meme saying that you

1268
01:03:35,760 --> 01:03:38,160
Speaker 3: can vote for Hillar Clinton by texting this number, et cetera,

1269
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:40,280
Speaker 3: et cetera. Listen, I think that is terrible. I think

1270
01:03:40,320 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 3: that's exactly the kind of thing that we should crack

1271
01:03:42,720 --> 01:03:44,800
Speaker 3: down on. Do I think it's as big of a

1272
01:03:44,840 --> 01:03:48,480
Speaker 3: deal as his sentence. No, I think that's disproportionate with

1273
01:03:48,520 --> 01:03:51,480
Speaker 3: its harm. But I do think that stuff is legitimately harmful,

1274
01:03:52,000 --> 01:03:55,480
Speaker 3: And you could content you could consider that quote manipulative

1275
01:03:55,640 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 3: or deceptive, as Zesco's language says here. But you can

1276
01:03:59,640 --> 01:04:03,480
Speaker 3: also talk about how we were told the Hunter Biden

1277
01:04:03,600 --> 01:04:07,840
Speaker 3: laptop was manipulative and deceptive in the wake of it

1278
01:04:07,960 --> 01:04:10,400
Speaker 3: being reported by The New York Post in twenty twenty

1279
01:04:10,640 --> 01:04:13,120
Speaker 3: and then turning out to be true. For the most part,

1280
01:04:13,200 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 3: everything has been confirmed from that laptop, the reporting on it.

1281
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,920
Speaker 3: So I think this is just a great case study

1282
01:04:20,080 --> 01:04:24,360
Speaker 3: in how now this center left, the elite center left,

1283
01:04:24,400 --> 01:04:29,880
Speaker 3: has co opted these institutions and is using them to

1284
01:04:30,040 --> 01:04:33,640
Speaker 3: spread these classically liberal Western values which have now been

1285
01:04:33,680 --> 01:04:38,560
Speaker 3: distorted into outright censorship. If you take the American pride

1286
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:42,240
Speaker 3: in our First Amendment, which Prince Harry for instance, has said,

1287
01:04:42,320 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 3: oh and he helps like the Aspen Institute on censorship issues,

1288
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:48,360
Speaker 3: it said like, well, in America, you have this weird

1289
01:04:48,400 --> 01:04:50,960
Speaker 3: thing called the First Amendment. If you take things like

1290
01:04:50,960 --> 01:04:53,200
Speaker 3: the First Amendment and our longtime pride in the First

1291
01:04:53,240 --> 01:04:54,920
Speaker 3: Amendment and the fact that you used to have, you know,

1292
01:04:54,960 --> 01:04:58,080
Speaker 3: the old school ACLU types having a decent voice in

1293
01:04:58,120 --> 01:05:00,880
Speaker 3: the American media, and go to where we are today,

1294
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 3: what we are taking and sending to other countries, because you,

1295
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,480
Speaker 3: of course, remember the US is the top funder of

1296
01:05:07,520 --> 01:05:10,920
Speaker 3: the United Nations billions of dollars a year. It's like

1297
01:05:10,960 --> 01:05:14,120
Speaker 3: a fifth of their annual budget is from money that

1298
01:05:14,280 --> 01:05:17,120
Speaker 3: was given by the United States. So we're funding this,

1299
01:05:17,200 --> 01:05:21,440
Speaker 3: We're funding this exportation of values abroad that used to

1300
01:05:21,520 --> 01:05:26,400
Speaker 3: sound really great to people and to the Blob in particular.

1301
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 3: But this is just a great example of how badly

1302
01:05:29,280 --> 01:05:32,680
Speaker 3: it has gone wrong, that we are now going to

1303
01:05:32,720 --> 01:05:38,000
Speaker 3: be paying for and training people in other countries to

1304
01:05:38,080 --> 01:05:43,800
Speaker 3: crack down on speech that threatens power in other countries.

1305
01:05:43,880 --> 01:05:46,320
Speaker 3: This is going to go south really quickly. It's going

1306
01:05:46,360 --> 01:05:47,960
Speaker 3: to go wrong in a number of ways. I predict

1307
01:05:48,040 --> 01:05:50,080
Speaker 3: we'll be back here talking about how it's gone wrong

1308
01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,920
Speaker 3: in a number of ways in places like Kenya not

1309
01:05:53,040 --> 01:05:56,560
Speaker 3: too far from now. But the point remains that there's

1310
01:05:56,600 --> 01:06:01,120
Speaker 3: this instinct a mid populist uprisings in the West to

1311
01:06:01,360 --> 01:06:04,720
Speaker 3: say elites have a responsibility to crack down and control.

1312
01:06:04,840 --> 01:06:06,560
Speaker 3: And I think that's what really is off putting to

1313
01:06:06,560 --> 01:06:09,200
Speaker 3: people about everything they hear at Davos and out of

1314
01:06:09,200 --> 01:06:11,960
Speaker 3: the mouth of Klaus Schwab, because there's a lot of

1315
01:06:11,960 --> 01:06:16,360
Speaker 3: anxiety among elites. There's a lot of anxiety among populists

1316
01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:19,000
Speaker 3: or people who share populist sentiments because the world feels

1317
01:06:19,000 --> 01:06:21,439
Speaker 3: like a really dark place right now. Those instincts could

1318
01:06:21,440 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 3: be channeled in more democratic ways, or those instincts can

1319
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,080
Speaker 3: be channeled in more authoritarian ways. And what we're seeing

1320
01:06:27,160 --> 01:06:32,919
Speaker 3: right now is an exploitation of the good democratic infrastructure

1321
01:06:33,080 --> 01:06:37,520
Speaker 3: of the West into for authoritarian purposes. So Ryan You've

1322
01:06:37,560 --> 01:06:40,320
Speaker 3: been following this stuff obviously for years. When I talk

1323
01:06:40,360 --> 01:06:46,600
Speaker 3: about like the exportation of a Brian you're about to

1324
01:06:46,600 --> 01:06:48,080
Speaker 3: talk about, I think, some of the biggest news of

1325
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,200
Speaker 3: the week, despite the fact that it hasn't gotten much

1326
01:06:50,240 --> 01:06:54,080
Speaker 3: attention in the media. The president resigned. By that, I

1327
01:06:54,120 --> 01:06:57,360
Speaker 3: mean the shadow president, Susan Rice, what have you got?

1328
01:06:57,760 --> 01:07:00,880
Speaker 5: And so Susan Rice will be will be in her

1329
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:05,840
Speaker 5: role as director of the Democratic Policy Committee for the

1330
01:07:05,880 --> 01:07:08,800
Speaker 5: next month. But that means that the president is in

1331
01:07:08,840 --> 01:07:12,640
Speaker 5: the process. She actually announced that she was stepping down

1332
01:07:13,200 --> 01:07:15,600
Speaker 5: on the same day that Don Lemon and Tucker Carlson

1333
01:07:15,960 --> 01:07:19,240
Speaker 5: were fired. And I think, you know, when it comes

1334
01:07:19,280 --> 01:07:23,320
Speaker 5: to kind of historical consequence, her departure will actually have

1335
01:07:23,440 --> 01:07:26,120
Speaker 5: much more meaning and significance.

1336
01:07:25,480 --> 01:07:29,200
Speaker 4: Down the road, probably than either of theirs.

1337
01:07:29,200 --> 01:07:32,600
Speaker 5: Because you know, we've seen plenty of people like leave

1338
01:07:32,680 --> 01:07:35,320
Speaker 5: Fox News, they build their own platforms, Fox News finds

1339
01:07:35,320 --> 01:07:41,400
Speaker 5: new people. CNN will be CNN without Don Lemon. But

1340
01:07:41,880 --> 01:07:46,040
Speaker 5: the choice of you know, who directs Biden's democratic policy

1341
01:07:46,840 --> 01:07:50,200
Speaker 5: over the remaining eighteen months of his of the back

1342
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:53,880
Speaker 5: half of his first term is going to determine everything

1343
01:07:53,960 --> 01:08:00,680
Speaker 5: from immigration policy, you know, gun control, the implementation of

1344
01:08:00,720 --> 01:08:05,600
Speaker 5: the Climate Provisions and the Inflation Reduction Act, expanding access

1345
01:08:06,080 --> 01:08:09,200
Speaker 5: to abortion services for people who are in states where

1346
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 5: it's where it's banned. Infrastructure rollout, like there is an

1347
01:08:16,439 --> 01:08:19,520
Speaker 5: unprecedented really amount of money kind of in the pipeline

1348
01:08:19,560 --> 01:08:24,679
Speaker 5: that can be directed, you know, toward pursuing a Biden agenda,

1349
01:08:25,560 --> 01:08:28,519
Speaker 5: but it's insanely difficult to do in this country.

1350
01:08:28,920 --> 01:08:29,880
Speaker 4: Like you would not.

1351
01:08:29,880 --> 01:08:32,680
Speaker 5: Believe how hard it is to just spend money, like

1352
01:08:32,760 --> 01:08:35,639
Speaker 5: for you know, the Tea Party and Freedom Coccus types

1353
01:08:35,680 --> 01:08:38,559
Speaker 5: probably think that, well, it's just drunken sailors just throwing

1354
01:08:38,560 --> 01:08:41,160
Speaker 5: it off the boat, like cash into the water. But

1355
01:08:42,320 --> 01:08:48,920
Speaker 5: because of the overlapping jurisdictions and competing interests involved with local, state,

1356
01:08:48,960 --> 01:08:53,880
Speaker 5: and federal agencies, actually doing things in this country is

1357
01:08:53,920 --> 01:08:57,840
Speaker 5: getting increasingly difficult and it and is something that kind of,

1358
01:08:58,160 --> 01:09:00,639
Speaker 5: you know, Tucker Carlson would talk about on his show

1359
01:09:00,640 --> 01:09:04,000
Speaker 5: that like it's a country that has a hard time

1360
01:09:04,160 --> 01:09:08,320
Speaker 5: doing things anymore. And when you travel abroad and you

1361
01:09:08,360 --> 01:09:13,880
Speaker 5: see other infrastructure, other airports, other other other ways that

1362
01:09:14,040 --> 01:09:19,080
Speaker 5: kind of developed to developed countries have managed to actually

1363
01:09:19,120 --> 01:09:21,640
Speaker 5: build things, You're like, what are we what's going on

1364
01:09:21,960 --> 01:09:23,599
Speaker 5: in the United States, and one of the main things

1365
01:09:23,720 --> 01:09:27,760
Speaker 5: going on is that nobody cares about policy anymore, and

1366
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,960
Speaker 5: so who he puts in this position is going to

1367
01:09:30,000 --> 01:09:33,479
Speaker 5: be extraordinarily important. This isn't the kind of thing, uh

1368
01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,400
Speaker 5: that a lot of people on YouTube are going to

1369
01:09:35,560 --> 01:09:37,920
Speaker 5: like go crazy about sharing.

1370
01:09:38,200 --> 01:09:40,640
Speaker 4: That's a nice thing about how we're only putting a

1371
01:09:40,640 --> 01:09:41,800
Speaker 4: couple elements up.

1372
01:09:41,840 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 5: We can we can do things that actually matter to

1373
01:09:45,160 --> 01:09:48,120
Speaker 5: people and not worry about how much, you know, how

1374
01:09:48,200 --> 01:09:48,680
Speaker 5: much they're going.

1375
01:09:48,640 --> 01:09:49,479
Speaker 4: To click on YouTube.

1376
01:09:49,600 --> 01:09:51,559
Speaker 5: So so we can we I'll just run through some

1377
01:09:51,600 --> 01:09:54,719
Speaker 5: of the some of the candidates that I've been hearing

1378
01:09:54,720 --> 01:09:56,679
Speaker 5: from people kind of in and out of the White House,

1379
01:09:56,720 --> 01:09:59,200
Speaker 5: who are who are being considered. The one who is

1380
01:09:59,320 --> 01:10:02,599
Speaker 5: kind of campaign the hardest for it so far is

1381
01:10:02,680 --> 01:10:05,760
Speaker 5: your old buddy near A Tandon, kind of who is

1382
01:10:06,240 --> 01:10:10,759
Speaker 5: one of the most polarizing figures in in the Democratic Party.

1383
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:11,680
Speaker 7: She was.

1384
01:10:13,120 --> 01:10:16,840
Speaker 5: She was nominated to run omb former you know, Hillary

1385
01:10:16,840 --> 01:10:20,000
Speaker 5: Clinton loyalist for ran Capp Center for American Progress. She

1386
01:10:20,040 --> 01:10:23,760
Speaker 5: was nominated to run the OMB, but ran into bipartisan

1387
01:10:23,800 --> 01:10:27,360
Speaker 5: resistance in the Senate. One of the only well, I

1388
01:10:27,400 --> 01:10:30,439
Speaker 5: think it was maybe the first Biden appointee not to

1389
01:10:30,520 --> 01:10:33,720
Speaker 5: get Senate confirmed. They found her a job anyway as

1390
01:10:33,760 --> 01:10:38,320
Speaker 5: an advisor to the White House. She was recently promoted

1391
01:10:38,360 --> 01:10:42,439
Speaker 5: to staff secretary, which is a kind of lame sounding

1392
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:45,639
Speaker 5: name but is actually very influential position. You're in you're

1393
01:10:45,680 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 5: in basically every every meeting, and you're controlling kind of

1394
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:52,360
Speaker 5: the paper flow, and so that gives you an enormous

1395
01:10:52,360 --> 01:10:55,280
Speaker 5: amount of power over the over the agenda. And so

1396
01:10:55,840 --> 01:10:57,240
Speaker 5: she is said to be the one that is kind

1397
01:10:57,280 --> 01:11:00,679
Speaker 5: of pursuing this the hardest, which can all so could

1398
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:03,080
Speaker 5: also cut against her because this is a city where

1399
01:11:03,120 --> 01:11:06,639
Speaker 5: like filled with like super ambitious people who are supposed

1400
01:11:06,640 --> 01:11:09,840
Speaker 5: to pretend that they're not and if you don't mask that,

1401
01:11:10,439 --> 01:11:15,200
Speaker 5: people don't like that, and so the kind of try

1402
01:11:15,240 --> 01:11:19,240
Speaker 5: too hard aspect might under my mind. Also, the job

1403
01:11:19,360 --> 01:11:22,920
Speaker 5: of DBC director is to kind of build coalitions for

1404
01:11:23,840 --> 01:11:26,000
Speaker 5: policy agenda and then implement it.

1405
01:11:26,280 --> 01:11:26,800
Speaker 4: And in order to.

1406
01:11:26,800 --> 01:11:29,360
Speaker 5: Build coalitions, you have to be able to kind of

1407
01:11:29,479 --> 01:11:32,200
Speaker 5: work well with people, and she has an enormous number

1408
01:11:32,240 --> 01:11:35,280
Speaker 5: of supporters, she has a enormous number of detractors, so

1409
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:38,559
Speaker 5: that may be that may end up hurting her. So

1410
01:11:39,080 --> 01:11:42,920
Speaker 5: second candidate who's being kicked around Tom Perez, who was

1411
01:11:43,120 --> 01:11:47,400
Speaker 5: former Obama Labor Secretary then became chair of the DNC.

1412
01:11:48,320 --> 01:11:51,519
Speaker 5: This is so heavily a kind of managerial and executive

1413
01:11:51,600 --> 01:11:54,200
Speaker 5: role that you would think his handling of the DNC

1414
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:57,840
Speaker 5: and also of the Iowa caucuses could come back to

1415
01:11:57,880 --> 01:11:58,360
Speaker 5: haunt him.

1416
01:11:58,400 --> 01:11:58,599
Speaker 4: Here.

1417
01:11:59,200 --> 01:12:03,200
Speaker 5: He bungled the Iowa caucuses so badly Democrats don't do

1418
01:12:03,280 --> 01:12:04,719
Speaker 5: an Iowa CAUCUSUS anymore.

1419
01:12:04,920 --> 01:12:05,599
Speaker 4: It was that bad.

1420
01:12:05,600 --> 01:12:08,880
Speaker 5: If you remember, they had these these crony contractors come

1421
01:12:08,880 --> 01:12:12,320
Speaker 5: in and build an app. App completely melted down. Nobody

1422
01:12:12,400 --> 01:12:14,640
Speaker 5: had any idea who won. Pete Bootage just goes on

1423
01:12:14,640 --> 01:12:16,040
Speaker 5: stage and declares that he won.

1424
01:12:16,920 --> 01:12:17,040
Speaker 4: Uh.

1425
01:12:18,000 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 5: Tom Prez is nowhere to be seen. He just kind

1426
01:12:20,000 --> 01:12:23,639
Speaker 5: of tries to blame Iowa. Iowa folks blamed Tom Perez.

1427
01:12:24,040 --> 01:12:27,320
Speaker 5: Just a complete nightmare. So he thought about running from

1428
01:12:27,320 --> 01:12:30,960
Speaker 5: Maryland governor, didn't, so he's so he's in he's in.

1429
01:12:30,920 --> 01:12:32,680
Speaker 4: Line for that. Uh uh.

1430
01:12:33,400 --> 01:12:36,599
Speaker 5: Tar mcguinnis who is also somebody from CAP, but she

1431
01:12:36,640 --> 01:12:38,559
Speaker 5: was on the kind of political side of CAP, so

1432
01:12:39,000 --> 01:12:40,519
Speaker 5: you know there's a line between the C three and

1433
01:12:40,560 --> 01:12:44,280
Speaker 5: the C four. She was somebody who is kind of known.

1434
01:12:44,320 --> 01:12:46,960
Speaker 5: She worked with Jeff is it sience or zenes, I

1435
01:12:47,000 --> 01:12:49,479
Speaker 5: can never think of science. So she worked with Jeff

1436
01:12:49,520 --> 01:12:52,400
Speaker 5: Science to try to write the ship when Obamacare blew up.

1437
01:12:52,439 --> 01:12:56,040
Speaker 5: You remember when they launched that, they launched their marketplace,

1438
01:12:57,479 --> 01:13:01,240
Speaker 5: and so she and she and Jeff Zience kind of

1439
01:13:01,240 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 5: worked hand in hand, you know, fix fixing that and

1440
01:13:05,240 --> 01:13:08,200
Speaker 5: getting getting that moving. And out of her experience, she

1441
01:13:08,240 --> 01:13:11,040
Speaker 5: wrote a book about kind of technology and government and

1442
01:13:11,040 --> 01:13:13,680
Speaker 5: how to make how to make government actually work. And

1443
01:13:13,720 --> 01:13:19,559
Speaker 5: so because Science has worked so closely with her, you know,

1444
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:22,880
Speaker 5: he has you know, he understands what she's capable of.

1445
01:13:22,920 --> 01:13:25,519
Speaker 5: And so I think that she might be kind of

1446
01:13:25,520 --> 01:13:29,479
Speaker 5: a dark horse candidate for this because if the Biden

1447
01:13:29,520 --> 01:13:32,439
Speaker 5: decides what I actually want is for my agenda to

1448
01:13:32,520 --> 01:13:36,320
Speaker 5: actually be implemented, for the money to go out the

1449
01:13:36,320 --> 01:13:42,639
Speaker 5: door efficiently and quickly, and rather than it get tangled

1450
01:13:42,680 --> 01:13:46,000
Speaker 5: up in scandal and kind of palace intrigue, then he

1451
01:13:46,040 --> 01:13:48,439
Speaker 5: would go with somebody like a Tara McGinnis, because she

1452
01:13:48,640 --> 01:13:50,960
Speaker 5: likes her reputation watching is it's not flashy, but she's

1453
01:13:51,000 --> 01:13:53,760
Speaker 5: going to like really get the job done. Another one

1454
01:13:53,800 --> 01:13:56,400
Speaker 5: who's similar to that is a woman named Anna O'Leary

1455
01:13:56,439 --> 01:14:01,200
Speaker 5: who but who since the Clinton administration has been kind

1456
01:14:01,200 --> 01:14:04,679
Speaker 5: of this kind of powerhouse policy person from the Clinton world.

1457
01:14:04,960 --> 01:14:06,599
Speaker 4: She was Gavin Newsom's chief of staff.

1458
01:14:07,360 --> 01:14:10,559
Speaker 5: You might have seen her fighting publicly with him now

1459
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:14,800
Speaker 5: because she is the lawyer for Walgreens, which was trying

1460
01:14:14,840 --> 01:14:17,479
Speaker 5: to write its policy for how they were going to

1461
01:14:17,479 --> 01:14:20,439
Speaker 5: give out the kind of abortion medication, and Gavin Newsom

1462
01:14:20,479 --> 01:14:24,320
Speaker 5: started attacking her publicly kind of weird like his old

1463
01:14:24,520 --> 01:14:27,519
Speaker 5: chief of staff. She was trying to, like it sounded

1464
01:14:27,560 --> 01:14:30,519
Speaker 5: like she was trying to get Walgreens like to just

1465
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:35,599
Speaker 5: follow the law, but also get medication abortion out completely completely.

1466
01:14:35,800 --> 01:14:38,120
Speaker 5: That's a complete side note. People don't think that she

1467
01:14:38,160 --> 01:14:40,680
Speaker 5: would want to move to DC for this job, but

1468
01:14:40,840 --> 01:14:43,519
Speaker 5: if Biden was looking for somebody who's like good at

1469
01:14:43,520 --> 01:14:46,000
Speaker 5: doing stuff, that'd be somebody. And the last one Week

1470
01:14:46,000 --> 01:14:49,040
Speaker 5: can talk about is is Sarah Bianki. So she's the

1471
01:14:49,160 --> 01:14:54,320
Speaker 5: deputy US Trade Representative and they're sort of I think

1472
01:14:54,360 --> 01:14:57,240
Speaker 5: this rule exists on the Republican side too, But the

1473
01:14:57,320 --> 01:15:01,400
Speaker 5: rule is that if you have a good kind of

1474
01:15:01,439 --> 01:15:04,439
Speaker 5: director of an agency who is in line kind of

1475
01:15:04,439 --> 01:15:07,360
Speaker 5: with the base of the party, then you also need

1476
01:15:07,479 --> 01:15:11,400
Speaker 5: a corporate flunky underneath them to sort of like babysit

1477
01:15:11,520 --> 01:15:14,280
Speaker 5: and watch them and make sure that like they're not

1478
01:15:14,360 --> 01:15:16,639
Speaker 5: really going to do all these things that they say

1479
01:15:16,640 --> 01:15:19,160
Speaker 5: they're going to do. And so Catherine Tie, the US

1480
01:15:19,240 --> 01:15:24,200
Speaker 5: Trade Representative, is very good, and so Bianchi the deputy,

1481
01:15:24,800 --> 01:15:27,720
Speaker 5: is somebody who's who feels like comes from more of

1482
01:15:27,760 --> 01:15:31,320
Speaker 5: a corporate background. She was literally the lead lobbyist for Airbnb.

1483
01:15:32,960 --> 01:15:37,960
Speaker 5: So Biden talks about being the kind of most pro

1484
01:15:38,040 --> 01:15:40,439
Speaker 5: labor president in history. And I think it would be

1485
01:15:40,560 --> 01:15:45,000
Speaker 5: tough if he had a gig company lobbyist running his

1486
01:15:45,080 --> 01:15:48,519
Speaker 5: domestic policy. But that doesn't mean she's out of the running.

1487
01:15:48,840 --> 01:15:51,519
Speaker 5: So but we'll say so these are the kind of folks.

1488
01:15:51,640 --> 01:15:53,880
Speaker 5: There are a couple others, but I don't think there

1489
01:15:54,160 --> 01:15:55,920
Speaker 5: is I'll have a story on this in the intercept

1490
01:15:56,000 --> 01:15:58,760
Speaker 5: later today. Probably I don't think there're as much in

1491
01:15:58,760 --> 01:16:00,000
Speaker 5: the running as these ones.

1492
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,080
Speaker 3: Who do you think is like, probably isn't near a

1493
01:16:05,080 --> 01:16:05,519
Speaker 3: ta near.

1494
01:16:05,600 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 5: It's probably what everybody says is that Nira has the

1495
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,640
Speaker 5: inside track, that she's been gunning for this for a

1496
01:16:09,640 --> 01:16:10,200
Speaker 5: couple of years.

1497
01:16:10,240 --> 01:16:10,919
Speaker 3: That's crazy.

1498
01:16:11,040 --> 01:16:16,200
Speaker 5: Yeah, And the only question is is she too polarizing?

1499
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:16,720
Speaker 7: Yes?

1500
01:16:17,240 --> 01:16:20,519
Speaker 5: I mean the answer is yes, But does Science and

1501
01:16:20,520 --> 01:16:23,639
Speaker 5: Biden think that she's too polarizing for the role.

1502
01:16:23,760 --> 01:16:26,799
Speaker 3: I mean, after what happened with the O and B nomination,

1503
01:16:26,960 --> 01:16:30,599
Speaker 3: you'd think that would be completely glaringly obvious to them.

1504
01:16:30,960 --> 01:16:33,040
Speaker 3: You would think, I can't believe she's even in that.

1505
01:16:33,080 --> 01:16:34,559
Speaker 3: I mean, I can't believe she's in the ring because

1506
01:16:34,600 --> 01:16:38,439
Speaker 3: she comes with so much clout in democratic circles in Washington,

1507
01:16:38,520 --> 01:16:41,120
Speaker 3: d C. But and so therefore she has a lot

1508
01:16:41,120 --> 01:16:42,840
Speaker 3: of people who will lobby on her behalf and say,

1509
01:16:42,800 --> 01:16:44,680
Speaker 3: I'd love to work with Nira, like bring Nara in,

1510
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:46,960
Speaker 3: and you know you don't necessarilyn't not upset near, et cetera,

1511
01:16:47,000 --> 01:16:50,639
Speaker 3: et cetera, But man, that would be interesting. I actually

1512
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:52,760
Speaker 3: hope that she is it because I would love to

1513
01:16:52,760 --> 01:16:57,120
Speaker 3: watch that. Like from the outside, that sounds hilarious.

1514
01:16:56,880 --> 01:16:59,160
Speaker 5: That it could be some could be some fun drama,

1515
01:16:59,360 --> 01:17:02,479
Speaker 5: could be some fair rudra. Yeah, and there's and maybe

1516
01:17:02,479 --> 01:17:06,439
Speaker 5: the White House thinks that that putting a thumb in

1517
01:17:06,479 --> 01:17:08,400
Speaker 5: the eye of the of the left is like a

1518
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:11,840
Speaker 5: good thing electorally to kind of show their should their independence.

1519
01:17:11,840 --> 01:17:15,320
Speaker 5: We're not Bernie might have endorsed us, but don't worry

1520
01:17:15,360 --> 01:17:16,840
Speaker 5: about that. We don't care anything about Bernie.

1521
01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 3: Well, it's a good point. If they're if heading into

1522
01:17:18,479 --> 01:17:20,519
Speaker 3: twenty twenty four, that's the direction that they think they

1523
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:22,559
Speaker 3: should tack in that will be most beneficial to them.

1524
01:17:22,600 --> 01:17:24,360
Speaker 3: Then near Tandon is your gal.

1525
01:17:25,080 --> 01:17:28,200
Speaker 4: There you go, we'll see, we'll see.

1526
01:17:28,439 --> 01:17:31,800
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, that's that's one to follow. I know

1527
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:35,920
Speaker 3: I'll be following for the shadenfreude, because Lord knows, we're

1528
01:17:35,960 --> 01:17:37,639
Speaker 3: giving you plenty of it from the right.

1529
01:17:37,840 --> 01:17:39,720
Speaker 5: Yeah, And I think from the right that's probably the

1530
01:17:39,800 --> 01:17:42,760
Speaker 5: best case scenario if you're two, because then if you

1531
01:17:42,800 --> 01:17:44,960
Speaker 5: get caught up in a lot of palace intrigue, then

1532
01:17:45,600 --> 01:17:48,240
Speaker 5: less of the IRA money's going to go out, less

1533
01:17:48,240 --> 01:17:51,240
Speaker 5: the infrastructure, like less of the Biden kind of agenda

1534
01:17:51,320 --> 01:17:55,520
Speaker 5: agenda that was passed through Congress then ends up getting implemented.

1535
01:17:55,600 --> 01:17:58,040
Speaker 4: So I guess that would be a win for you guys.

1536
01:17:59,560 --> 01:18:02,360
Speaker 3: I mean, depends on what happens, what gets stalled.

1537
01:18:02,360 --> 01:18:05,080
Speaker 5: Busir Nancy Mason, you've got a clean energy factory in

1538
01:18:05,120 --> 01:18:08,000
Speaker 5: your district that you actually want the stuff to get out.

1539
01:18:07,800 --> 01:18:11,479
Speaker 3: To you need those votes. That's funny. Well, thank you

1540
01:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,160
Speaker 3: so much for tuning into today's edition of Counterpoints. In

1541
01:18:14,160 --> 01:18:19,240
Speaker 3: the middle of this absolutely insane week. We appreciate everybody watching,

1542
01:18:19,320 --> 01:18:22,599
Speaker 3: We appreciate everybody listening. There's so many stories that will

1543
01:18:22,600 --> 01:18:26,320
Speaker 3: continue to follow up on because they aren't going anywhere soon.

1544
01:18:27,000 --> 01:18:29,320
Speaker 3: So if you're in the media and you're watching this,

1545
01:18:29,479 --> 01:18:31,639
Speaker 3: just cross your fingers and hope you aren't fired this week,

1546
01:18:31,680 --> 01:18:35,840
Speaker 3: because it's coming for everyone. There you go, We'll see

1547
01:18:35,880 --> 01:18:43,720
Speaker 3: you back here next Wednesday.