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Speaker 1: Hey, what's up everybody. I'm Jammel Hill and welcome to

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Speaker 1: politics and iHeart podcast and unbothered network production. Time to

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Speaker 1: get spolitical. I've been relatively quiet about the warre in Gayza,

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest. Some of it had to do with

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Speaker 1: my own lack of bandwidth, but mostly it's been because

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Speaker 1: I was trying to figure out the how, as in,

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Speaker 1: how can I thoughtfully discuss a conflict that dates back

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Speaker 1: nearly a century now. After doing some more thinking, I

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Speaker 1: realized therein lies the problem. We can't talk about it

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Speaker 1: without someone being labeled as antisemitic or being labeled as

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Speaker 1: a terror sympathizer. Sports can sometimes be a place where

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Speaker 1: common ground is found, even with the thorniest and most

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Speaker 1: complicated of issues. It's what makes sports unique. Sports has

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Speaker 1: the ability to be a unifier because sports often forces

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Speaker 1: fans of different races, genders, and socioeconomic background together to

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Speaker 1: root for a common interest where there be a specific

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Speaker 1: team or a specific player. But the Warren Gaza is

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Speaker 1: such a polarizing emotional topic that common ground is not

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Speaker 1: often found in the world of sports about this issue.

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Speaker 1: During the Summer Olympics in Paris, Israeli athletes were subjected

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Speaker 1: to protests and death threats. During the Israel Paraguay soccer match,

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Speaker 1: spectators unfurled a banner that read genocide Olympics. Other spectators,

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Speaker 1: many of whom were wearing Palestinian flags, booed the Israeli

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Speaker 1: athletes when their national anthem was played. In judo, two

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Speaker 1: Arab athletes refused to shake the hands of two Israeli

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Speaker 1: athletes from their sport. French authorities called the gestures from

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Speaker 1: fans quote provocative gestures of an anti Semitic nature. Obviously,

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Speaker 1: the world was understandably horrified on October seventh when the

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Speaker 1: terrorist organization Hamas attacked Israel, killing twelve hundred Israelis and

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Speaker 1: taking more than two hundred and fifty hostages. But in

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Speaker 1: response to the attack, Israel has engaged in a relentless

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Speaker 1: assault on the Palestinian people, killing more than forty thousand

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Speaker 1: of them. The targets of these attacks aren't usually the

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Speaker 1: terrorists who were responsible for the October seventh attack, but

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Speaker 1: rather civilians, many of whom are elderly and children. There

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Speaker 1: have been food blockades and wholesale destruction of Gaza's health

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Speaker 1: care system and infrastructure. Eighty five percent of Palestinians living

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Speaker 1: in Gaza have been forced to flee their homes as

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Speaker 1: most of the schools and hospitals have been completely destroyed.

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Speaker 1: It is for this reason that many people felt that

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Speaker 1: Israel should have been banned from competing in the Olympics,

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Speaker 1: including a group of twenty six French legislators. Apartheid South

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Speaker 1: Africa being banned from the Olympics from nineteen sixty four

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Speaker 1: to nineteen eighty eight was cited as president. Now, any

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Speaker 1: reasonable mind would conclude Israel has a right to defend

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Speaker 1: itself against terrorism, but according to the International Court of Justice,

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Speaker 1: that isn't all what Israel is doing. The Court said

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Speaker 1: last January that it was quote plausible that Israel was

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Speaker 1: committing genocidal acts against Palestinians. Now, given the level of

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Speaker 1: destruction in cruel Palestinians have experienced, a reasonable mind would

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Speaker 1: also understand why athletes would express empathy and support for

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian citizens who have been targeted and killed, but

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Speaker 1: that's hardly the case.

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Speaker 2: German football club Minds zero five made the decision to

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Speaker 2: terminate Awar Elgazi's contract on Friday due to posts he

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Speaker 2: made on social media concerning the Israeli Palestinian conflict. The

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Speaker 2: club cited comments and posts from the player on social

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Speaker 2: media as the reason for his contract termination, but they

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Speaker 2: did not provide specific details regarding the content of the posts.

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Speaker 2: Awar Elgazi, a twenty eight year old forward, had previously

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Speaker 2: been suspended by the club for a now deleted social

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Speaker 2: media post related to the Middle East conflict. The club

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Speaker 2: had initially lifted his suspension, giving him a second chance,

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Speaker 2: stating that he had spoken out against terrorism, including from Hamas,

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Speaker 2: and did not question Israel's right to exist. However, in

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Speaker 2: a subsequent social media post, Algazi indicated that the club

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Speaker 2: had issued its statement without his permission, reaffirming his stance

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Speaker 2: for peace and humanity and expressing concern for the innocent

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Speaker 2: and vulnerable in Gaza. He posted another statement condemning the

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Speaker 2: killing of innocent civilians in both Palestine and Israel. Before

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Speaker 2: his contract termination. German prosecutors accused Elgazi of disturbing public

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Speaker 2: peace by condoning criminal acts in conjunction with incitement to

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Speaker 2: hatred through his social media posts. The situation highlights the

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Speaker 2: complexities and consequences of individuals expressing their views on sensitive

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Speaker 2: geopolitical issues. On social media platforms.

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Speaker 1: A German court ruled Elgazi was wrongfully terminated. But how

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Speaker 1: did we get to the point where athletes says support

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Speaker 1: a ceasefire in Gaza, and our critical of Israel's response

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Speaker 1: is considered to be anti Jewish or even anti Semitic,

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Speaker 1: I asked Jewish scholar Peter Binhart, the editor at large

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Speaker 1: of Jewish Currents and professor of Journalism in Political Science

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Speaker 1: at the City of New York's Newmark School of Journalism.

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Speaker 3: The word terrorism it's used in I think very political, politicized,

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Speaker 3: and not necessarily intellectually honest ways. Right, if terrorism just

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Speaker 3: means that a government or some armed group is terrifying people, right,

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Speaker 3: If that's the root of the word terror, is that

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Speaker 3: you're inducing terror in people, right, Well, yes, Hamas definitely

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Speaker 3: terrified and killed, slaughtered a lot of people on a

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Speaker 3: Cober seventh, and they've done that for long before that.

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Speaker 3: In fact, a friend of mine was killed in a

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Speaker 3: bus bombing that Hamas perpetrated in the mid nineteen ninety.

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Speaker 3: But it's also the case, if we're just talking about

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Speaker 3: terrifying people, that the Israeli government is terrifying a lot

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Speaker 3: of people in Gaza now and killing very very many

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Speaker 3: of them and terrifying people. So the word terrorists, I think, unfortunately,

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Speaker 3: really tends to only get applied to Palestinians or Arabs

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Speaker 3: and Muslims. It's not a term that's used in a

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Speaker 3: kind of a non racial or non religious way, which

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Speaker 3: is why I think it's a problematic term the way

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Speaker 3: it's often used. I think what happens is that there

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Speaker 3: have been a lot of people, especially over for many years,

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Speaker 3: but especially since over the last year, where we've seen

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Speaker 3: Gaza literally completely devastated, you know, most of the buildings destroyed,

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Speaker 3: most of the people made homeless, most of the hospitals,

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Speaker 3: most of the universities just do you know, brought to

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Speaker 3: complete rubble, you know, and with American weapons, mostly American weapons,

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Speaker 3: And a lot of people have looked at this and

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Speaker 3: they said, this doesn't seem right to me. This is

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Speaker 3: not what America should be doing in the world. And

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Speaker 3: these are often the same kinds of people who would

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Speaker 3: have been outraged by America's policies when we invaded a Rock,

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Speaker 3: or America support for Aparte, or America's wars in Central America. Right,

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Speaker 3: it's the same kind of people people who just basically

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Speaker 3: have a human rights kind of perspective and see their

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Speaker 3: own country doing things that they think violate that, and

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Speaker 3: they want to say something. You know, Muhammad Ali opposing

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Speaker 3: the Vietnam War. Right, There's a long history of this.

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Speaker 1: It's a history so complicated that I can't begin to

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Speaker 1: sum up the entire totality of this conflict. But as

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Speaker 1: a journalist, you have two very important superpowers that always

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Speaker 1: are at your disposal, the ability to question and the

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Speaker 1: ability to listen, And sometimes the latter is more important

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Speaker 1: than the former. My dear friend, Eric Adelson is a

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Speaker 1: freelance sports journalist. He's also Jewish, and as someone who

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Speaker 1: has covered six Olympics, he has a deep understanding of

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Speaker 1: how the Olympics have been the backdrop to some painful

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Speaker 1: moments in the Jewish Palestinian conflict, including the nineteen seventy

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Speaker 1: two Munich Olympics, which were marked by a devastating attack

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Speaker 1: on Israeli athletes.

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Speaker 4: Monday marked fifty years since gunman attacked the Israeli team

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Speaker 4: at the nineteen seventy two Munich Olympics.

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Speaker 5: When German police close in all the hostages and eight

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Speaker 5: terrorists die during an airport shootout.

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Speaker 4: Palestinian militant group Black September claimed responsibility for the attack,

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Speaker 4: which shot the world. Millions of viewers watched an unfold

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Speaker 4: on live TV.

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Speaker 5: Despite protests, the games go on as israel Berries are

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Speaker 5: dead and the world marns the innocent victims of the

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Speaker 5: Munich massacre.

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Speaker 4: The Olympic village didn't have tight security in the early

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Speaker 4: hours of the morning of September fifth, nineteen seventy two,

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Speaker 4: when the militants broke into the Israeli apartments, which tipped

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Speaker 4: off a bloody twenty four hour standoff between the gunmen

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Speaker 4: and unarmed athletes who tried to defend themselves. One rescue

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Speaker 4: attempt was called off when police realized it was being

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Speaker 4: broadcast live. That's when German authorities agreed to take the

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Speaker 4: attackers and a number of hostages to the airport.

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Speaker 5: They're at the firston Feldbrook air base they had their

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Speaker 5: gun battle.

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Speaker 4: Another rescue attempt failed once a gunfight broke out at

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Speaker 4: an air base, which finally ended when the surviving.

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Speaker 6: Gunmen were captured.

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Speaker 4: The attackers wanted more than two hundred Palestinians held in

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Speaker 4: Israeli prisons to be released, along with German Red Army

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Speaker 4: Faction radicals Andreas Bader and Ulrich Meinhoff. They also wanted

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Speaker 4: a plane to head to the Middle East. In the end,

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Speaker 4: eleven members of the Israeli team were killed, along with

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Speaker 4: one German police officer and five of the Palace Indian Gunman.

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Speaker 4: German and Olympic authorities faced bitter criticism for their response

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Speaker 4: to the attack.

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Speaker 7: I think that one of the limitations in terms of

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Speaker 7: how this is covered is the recency bias that a

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Speaker 7: lot of people are looking at this entire issue from

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Speaker 7: a very new perspective when it's an incredibly old story. So,

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Speaker 7: as a Jewish American, I grew up and I was

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Speaker 7: told stories about Munich nineteen seventy two. And I think

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Speaker 7: a lot of Americans they grow up with the Olympics,

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Speaker 7: and they hear about Carl Lewis, and they hear about

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Speaker 7: Michael Johnson, Mary lou Retten, Michael Phelps, Usaint pol But

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Speaker 7: a lot of I would say most Jewish Americans, they

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Speaker 7: hear about Munich. And the lesson of Munich is that

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Speaker 7: Jewish athletes, Israeli athletes just are not safe anywhere. And

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Speaker 7: that was proof of it, and those Olympics were supposed

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Speaker 7: to be I would they necessarily do over, but some

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Speaker 7: kind of retribution for what happened in nineteen thirty six

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Speaker 7: with Hitler, and it was in Germany. It was supposed

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Speaker 7: to be much better and Germany botched the security and

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Speaker 7: Israeli athletes died, and it was one of the darkest

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Speaker 7: moments in Olympics history and still very much on the

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Speaker 7: minds of almost all Jews who watched the Olympics and

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Speaker 7: cheer for Israel. So this is something that pre dates

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Speaker 7: October seventh, It predates the century, goes back decades and

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Speaker 7: centuries back to the Roman empirety but further than that.

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Speaker 7: So I think that the attention on the matter is

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Speaker 7: very important, and for athletes to have voices is very

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Speaker 7: important and not be censured or censored for things that

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Speaker 7: they say. And I think that that is a huge

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Speaker 7: advantage of the Olympics that we do have global forum

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Speaker 7: to sometimes talk about these things.

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Speaker 1: And what that requires is something our society isn't really

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Speaker 1: good at these days, and that's nuanced. You should be

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Speaker 1: able to support the Jewish and Palestinian existence. You should

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Speaker 1: be able to call out anti Semitism without being islamophobic.

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Speaker 1: You should be able to criticize the brutality and extremism

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Speaker 1: of the Israeli government and show support for suffering Palestinians

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Speaker 1: without being labeled a terrorist sympathizer. Here's Peter Beinhardt again

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Speaker 1: saying what I said, only smarter.

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Speaker 3: Unfortunately, I think there are a lot of folks who

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Speaker 3: don't really want everybody to be able to enter into

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Speaker 3: this conversation. And I think that's because there is a

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Speaker 3: potential fragility of the kind of unconditional support for Israel

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Speaker 3: that kind of dominates American politics in the Republican Party

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Speaker 3: and even the Biden administration. That if more people enter

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Speaker 3: this conversation who have progressive minded views, I think that

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Speaker 3: would be challenged more so. Unfortunately, a lot of people

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Speaker 3: Sometimes people end up paying a high price for trying

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Speaker 3: to enter in this conversation. But I really look, there

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Speaker 3: are some people who are anti Semitic, and if people

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Speaker 3: are anti Semitic, they should be called out for being antisemitic.

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Speaker 3: But I really believe that anyone of goodwill, who cares

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Speaker 3: about human beings, cares about human dignity and freedom, should

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Speaker 3: be able to have a perspective on this conversation and

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Speaker 3: enter into this conversation and should be prove innocent of

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Speaker 3: considered innocent of anti Semitism until proven guilty, not the

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Speaker 3: other way around. And the truth is the great movements

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Speaker 3: for freedom, whether it was the anti Partic movement or

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Speaker 3: the civil rights movement or have always or the anti

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Speaker 3: Vietnam War, have always brought people from many, many different backgrounds,

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Speaker 3: and a lot of people who were involved in anti

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Speaker 3: Vietnam War were not experts about Vietnam. They didn't speak Vietnamese,

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Speaker 3: but they could see what was happening and they had

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Speaker 3: a moral impulse, right, And the same thing a lot

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Speaker 3: of people in the Anti Party who didn't know the

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Speaker 3: details about South Africa, but they had a moral impulse

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Speaker 3: and that's good. Those are the best things in our

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Speaker 3: country have come from that kind of moral impulse of

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Speaker 3: people who were directly affected working together with people who

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Speaker 3: were not directly affected but said, this is not what

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Speaker 3: I believe, and I think that we have the potential

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Speaker 3: to have that kind of movement for Palestinian freedom, a

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Speaker 3: movement of Palestinians and Arabs and Muslims and Jews, but

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Speaker 3: also people from every kind of background. Because a lot

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Speaker 3: of people also have in their own personal experience, Even

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Speaker 3: if they've never been to Israel and Palestine, they can

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Speaker 3: see they have in their own family history or in

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Speaker 3: their own personal experience, something that they have experienced that

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Speaker 3: allows them to understand and feel a sense of solidarity

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Speaker 3: with people who are not treated equally.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jamelle Hill, and I approve this message. Up next

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Speaker 1: on his politics, a former Olympic medalist who has expressed

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Speaker 1: public support for Palestinians and has had to suffer some

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Speaker 1: consequences because of it. She is the first American Muslim

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Speaker 1: woman in Olympic history to compete with the Hajab. She

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Speaker 1: also is author of multiple children's books, including her latest,

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Speaker 1: The BOLDUS Wife. Coming up on Spolitics ifty Hajaj Muhammad. So,

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Speaker 1: if the has thank you so much for joining me.

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Speaker 1: I'm going to start this podcast with the way I

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Speaker 1: start with every guest that appears on politics and that

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Speaker 1: is named the athlete or the moment that made you

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Speaker 1: love sports.

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Speaker 6: That's such a great question, I don't you know. I

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Speaker 6: would say that Serena was very pivotal in my decision

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Speaker 6: to explore professional sports. But I grew up the child

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Speaker 6: of you know, I had a family member who worked

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Speaker 6: at NBC Olympics, and so every single summer or even

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Speaker 6: Winter Games, we were just in front of the television

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Speaker 6: because in my mind, my aunt played a part in

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Speaker 6: making that happen. So I've been a sports baby, I

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Speaker 6: think my whole life.

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Speaker 1: Well, yeah, so I guess the answer would be it

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Speaker 1: was your aunt who is responsible for you sort of

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Speaker 1: that early interest that you had in the Olympics.

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Speaker 6: In the Olympics for sure, but you know, as African Americans,

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Speaker 6: we're either outside or you know, being active playing a sport,

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Speaker 6: watching sports, I think collectively, and so sports, I think

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Speaker 6: and our family has just woven into the fabric of

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Speaker 6: kind of who we are.

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Speaker 1: So what was sort of your earliest kind of memorable

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Speaker 1: Olympic memory.

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Speaker 6: Definitely sitting in front of the television at my aunt's house.

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Speaker 6: She's not there, but with my uncle and my family,

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Speaker 6: like my siblings, my parents sitting in front of the

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Speaker 6: TV and watching watching sports, whether it be track or

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Speaker 6: field or even boxing. I remember my aunt did. There

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Speaker 6: was one games where specifically she was working on boxing.

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Speaker 6: So I think those are my memories that big you know,

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Speaker 6: box television, when TV's kind of sat in like a

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Speaker 6: piece of furniture.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Like I feel like I remember that Bix

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Speaker 1: said that big.

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Speaker 6: Like a big wouldan like like piece of furniture, but

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Speaker 6: it had a television in it, Like I remember watching

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Speaker 6: Olympics like that.

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Speaker 1: Now, of course, you know your Olympic history and it's

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Speaker 1: literally you are part of Olympic history, not just because

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Speaker 1: you participated, but obviously because of what you accomplished there

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Speaker 1: and also being the first American athlete to compete in

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Speaker 1: the Olympics while wearing ahod job winning the bronze for

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Speaker 1: the US fencing team. But you know, you decided to retire,

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Speaker 1: and I believe you decided to retire. What was it

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Speaker 1: twenty nineteen?

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Speaker 6: I think it was twenty seventeen.

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Speaker 1: Twenty seventeen. Wow, Okay, it seems like it's been much

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Speaker 1: shorter than that. So when you decided that it was

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Speaker 1: it for you and fencing, how did you How did

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Speaker 1: you know your fencing career was over.

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Speaker 6: I feel like a part of me knew Apic Games

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Speaker 6: that that was going to be it, and a lot

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Speaker 6: of it I think that the decision didn't always feel

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Speaker 6: like it was mine. I felt like I grew tired

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Speaker 6: of some of the politics that existed within my sport.

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Speaker 6: If I had the ability to just train, and I loved,

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Speaker 6: I think all those pieces that make you, I think,

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Speaker 6: a phenomenal athlete. I liked the dedication, I love the routine.

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Speaker 6: I liked that I could commit myself to practice, to

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Speaker 6: training to get better. I kind of felt like I

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Speaker 6: could always see those results. They felt very tangible to me.

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Speaker 6: But it was the politics that I could never get with.

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Speaker 6: And a lot of that maybe because I'm just not

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Speaker 6: a combative person, but because I was faced with so

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Speaker 6: much adversity, and I think a lot of it had

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Speaker 6: to do with things that were out of my control,

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Speaker 6: like me being ethnically different from everyone else, so religiously

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Speaker 6: different from everyone else. And then on top of that,

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Speaker 6: our sport is an individual sport first, So in those cases,

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Speaker 6: in sports like that, there's just a lot of contention

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Speaker 6: that exists because the reality is people want each other's

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Speaker 6: spots so on. You know this this facade that you

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Speaker 6: all see a spectators, especially watching the Olympics, Everything seems great.

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Speaker 6: You know, there's high fives, there's hugs. But I think

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Speaker 6: the underbelly of that is you know that your competitors

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Speaker 6: before your teammates.

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Speaker 1: Do you think, and we'll dive a little bit deeper,

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Speaker 1: because you left a lot of meat there on the

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Speaker 1: table about the politics that you face. Do you think

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Speaker 1: that you might have stuck in it longer if you

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Speaker 1: were let's say, a like your road and path would

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Speaker 1: have been different, as a better way to phrase it,

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Speaker 1: if you would have been a Christian athlete. Now we

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Speaker 1: know there's not a lot of black people in fencing,

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Speaker 1: but I think the religious component of this is very different.

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Speaker 1: So let's say you were a Christian athlete and not

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Speaker 1: a Muslim athlete. Do you think your pathway would have

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Speaker 1: been different?

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Speaker 6: I can't honestly answer that question. I have no idea.

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Speaker 6: And that's because when you live at the intersection of

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Speaker 6: different identities, you don't ever stop and ask, you know,

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Speaker 6: the person or persons who are kind of committing those

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Speaker 6: bigoted acts or these discriminatory, you know, aggressions towards you.

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Speaker 6: You don't stop and ask like, Hey, is it because

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Speaker 6: I'm Muslim or is it because I'm black? You know

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Speaker 6: what I mean, It's because I'm better than you, Like

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Speaker 6: who knows? So I don't know if you know some

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Speaker 6: of the things that I face in some of those

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Speaker 6: some of those obstacles were because I was Muslim, or

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Speaker 6: if it had nothing to do with any of my identities.

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Speaker 6: To be honest, I'll never know the answer to that.

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Speaker 6: But I do have moments in my career stand out

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Speaker 6: to me because you know, we are moments in my

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Speaker 6: career that stands out to me because my religious beliefs

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Speaker 6: were kind of, uh, you know, brought to the surface

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Speaker 6: when really it's like, what are my religious beliefs? How

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Speaker 6: does that factor into me being on this team or

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Speaker 6: me playing a sport that I love? To me, you know,

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Speaker 6: why is religion even a topic of conversation within you know,

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Speaker 6: the bounds of our team dynamic?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean it shouldn't be. You're right, but I

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Speaker 1: think because not only are you Muslim, you chose to

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Speaker 1: present as Muslim by wearing a h jab, and so

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Speaker 1: the immediately when you show up anywhere, for some people,

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Speaker 1: your very existence I don't even think for some people,

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Speaker 1: I think it's a reality, like your existence is political

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Speaker 1: to them, and so immediately you're causing a reaction just

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Speaker 1: by showing up. So how did you as you were,

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Speaker 1: you know, in this sport that you love, Like, how

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Speaker 1: did you deal with trying to shield yourself or at

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Speaker 1: least protect yourself from these bigot reactions.

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Speaker 6: When I was younger, I think that my parents played

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Speaker 6: a big part. Even my brother sometimes played a big

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Speaker 6: part in creating that space where you felt safe. As

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Speaker 6: I move more into the professional level, a lot of

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Speaker 6: it was just trying to stay true to yourself and

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Speaker 6: stay really myopic in the goal, and for me, the

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Speaker 6: goal was to become a better athlete. So I was

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Speaker 6: never caught in the weeds in trying to be something

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Speaker 6: I wasn't or trying to present myself in ways that

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Speaker 6: kind of would lessen the blows that I was getting

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Speaker 6: from them. I just, I think, really just learned to

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Speaker 6: ignore it. And I'm thankful because I feel like had

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Speaker 6: I gotten caught up in going back and forth or

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Speaker 6: constantly feeling like I needed to defend myself, I would

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Speaker 6: like they would have they would win, because then you are,

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Speaker 6: you become distracted. Competing becomes a lot harder because you're

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Speaker 6: being weighed down by these different, you know, instances that

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Speaker 6: you've you've now kind of unboxed in your life. And

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Speaker 6: as black athletes, we're already carrying a lot. Every time

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Speaker 6: I felt like I stepped onto the defencing strip. I

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Speaker 6: was carrying other people's implicit biases before you know, the

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Speaker 6: referee even said fence. And when I was competing, I

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Speaker 6: don't know if I was necessarily like super conscious of it.

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Speaker 6: Subconscious yes, But now looking back and seeing how, especially

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Speaker 6: as an adult, seeing how implicit bias changes the way

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Speaker 6: people interact with one another, how they treat one another.

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Speaker 6: And I play, I compete in a sport that the

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Speaker 6: referee is the end all be all in the decision

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Speaker 6: of who sportes the point, so it you know, it

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Speaker 6: begs the question how often are points being taken away

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Speaker 6: from you? Or is the referee really being true to

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Speaker 6: the sport and being honest to both athletes and you know,

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Speaker 6: giving the point to to the to the person who's

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Speaker 6: deserving of the point, or does implicit bias play play

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Speaker 6: a part in his decision, his or her decision making.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned about just this natural burden that black athletes

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Speaker 1: are forced to carry twenty sixteen in Rio, was your

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Speaker 1: first Olympics correct, first and only Olympic person on the Olympics. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: you know, carrying all this weight that that first and

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Speaker 1: only bigs were you actually able in real time to

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Speaker 1: enjoy the momentous achievement of being an Olympian.

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Speaker 6: No, I would say, no, I my media questions were

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Speaker 6: all political questions. My teammates got what did you eat

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Speaker 6: for breakfast? How excited are you to be at the Olympics.

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Speaker 6: And my questions were about Trump, they were about the

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Speaker 6: Muslim band, they were about you know, my my ethnic origin,

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Speaker 6: things like that, and I felt like they were heavy

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Speaker 6: questions that I was being dealt and my teammates, you know,

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Speaker 6: their questions were vastly different, especially when it came to

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Speaker 6: like media Day or any type of you know, panel

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Speaker 6: kind of questions that we received, and I felt it.

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Speaker 6: I felt like at the Olympics, I I had to

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Speaker 6: be a good representation for the communities that I was

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Speaker 6: a part of, whether that be the Muslim community, the

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Speaker 6: Black community. You know. I wanted to show people and

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Speaker 6: show most importantly, I wanted to show Muslim women that

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Speaker 6: we could be successful in sport. And so I feel

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Speaker 6: like a part of me already did that job by

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Speaker 6: being there at the Olympics, you know, and then winning

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Speaker 6: a medal, you know, was just icing on the cake,

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Speaker 6: but it was also showing young black kids that they

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Speaker 6: could have a seat at that table to be a

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Speaker 6: part of, you know, the fencing community. Like still you

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Speaker 6: can go to fencing tournaments, especially in the weapon that

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Speaker 6: I fence as a woman saberist, and you can find

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Speaker 6: no black athletes, And the way that I see it,

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Speaker 6: there's still is there still needs to be changed in

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Speaker 6: our sport. And at the Olympics, I felt like, of

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00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:03,919
Speaker 6: course I was really excited to be there, but I

437
00:26:03,960 --> 00:26:07,480
Speaker 6: felt like I was carrying something with me, and a

438
00:26:07,560 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 6: part of that is being really thankful and appreciative of

439
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:14,320
Speaker 6: the moment. But I felt like my job wasn't done.

440
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,639
Speaker 1: Do you know you wound up winning the bronze, which

441
00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,719
Speaker 1: is an incredible achievement. When you reflect on it, do

442
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: you wonder if maybe they hadn't politicized your presence being there?

443
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: Do you wonder how much that might have impacted how

444
00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: you perform?

445
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 6: Sometimes? You know, I look at my individual performance and

446
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,400
Speaker 6: I don't think if I really tried, I could articulate

447
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,160
Speaker 6: how nervous I was. To give you an idea of

448
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 6: a fencing tournament like Son's Olympic Games, it is you

449
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:56,200
Speaker 6: are in a random country, in a random venue, and

450
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:01,080
Speaker 6: the spectators are maybe whatever host country you're in, like

451
00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 6: say you're in Greece, maybe there's a few Greek families,

452
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 6: but the spectators are coaches, trainers, and athletes. That's who's why. Like,

453
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:11,680
Speaker 6: we don't sell out stadiums in our sport by any

454
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:15,600
Speaker 6: stretch of the imagination. So to have that be your

455
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:19,639
Speaker 6: norm and then go to the Olympics when there's like

456
00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:22,879
Speaker 6: you can barely even hear yourself think because there's so

457
00:27:23,040 --> 00:27:25,000
Speaker 6: many people. To be honest, it felt kind of like

458
00:27:25,000 --> 00:27:29,440
Speaker 6: a World Championships, you know, and you know, you have

459
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,480
Speaker 6: World Championships three times, and then you have an Olympic game,

460
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:35,760
Speaker 6: so it's kind of that same level. And I felt

461
00:27:35,760 --> 00:27:40,080
Speaker 6: that nervousness before, but for whatever reason, by the grace

462
00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:43,479
Speaker 6: of God, at the team event, I felt like I

463
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,960
Speaker 6: just didn't have any nerves, Like I was ready to go,

464
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 6: and I felt like in the day of the individual

465
00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:53,200
Speaker 6: competition prepared me for the team event.

466
00:27:54,400 --> 00:27:58,080
Speaker 1: You know, you said a moment ago that you forced

467
00:27:58,119 --> 00:27:59,920
Speaker 1: that is probably too strong a words, but you felt

468
00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: like the overwhelming nature of the politics is what ultimately

469
00:28:02,640 --> 00:28:07,080
Speaker 1: made you decide to walk away from fencing. Since making

470
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: that decision, have you regretted it at all.

471
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 6: No, I think that my time in the sport it was,

472
00:28:16,640 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 6: it was perfect, and had there not been COVID, maybe

473
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:28,199
Speaker 6: I would feel, you know, some level of like I

474
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,479
Speaker 6: would feel remorse in walking away so early and not

475
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:35,320
Speaker 6: really giving myself an adequate amount of time. You know,

476
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 6: I competed my first international competition. I was twenty one

477
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 6: years old, twenty two years old, and for a lot

478
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:48,640
Speaker 6: of athletes in our sport, they're competing from a really,

479
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 6: really young age. They're in an international competition at eleven

480
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,760
Speaker 6: twelve years old. So I feel like my career started

481
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,280
Speaker 6: later than most people. But you know, when you look

482
00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:04,520
Speaker 6: at my retirement in twenty sixteen, the next Olympics wasn'tun

483
00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:09,160
Speaker 6: till twenty twenty one, and that's I mean, not only

484
00:29:09,240 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 6: is that a large span of time there were people training,

485
00:29:13,000 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 6: you know, in their backyards because clubs were closed and

486
00:29:17,680 --> 00:29:22,000
Speaker 6: you couldn't really you know, have close interaction with anyone else,

487
00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,280
Speaker 6: So it's like, how are you training during that time?

488
00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:27,840
Speaker 6: I feel like it would have been really difficult. And

489
00:29:27,960 --> 00:29:34,560
Speaker 6: also a lot of my training I had very like

490
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 6: my coaches weren't the most dependable people anyway, So I

491
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:41,400
Speaker 6: can't imagine during COVID in the mix and you know,

492
00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:45,640
Speaker 6: having to try to chase somebody down for you know,

493
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 6: a lesson and training during a global epidemic. I think

494
00:29:51,440 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 6: it would have been really tough.

495
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess from that perspective considering the very next Olympics,

496
00:29:56,280 --> 00:29:58,960
Speaker 1: like a whole world had change that that. I'm sure

497
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:00,760
Speaker 1: you saw U with some of the athletes went through

498
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,160
Speaker 1: you know, mentally physically, and you probably were thinking, eh,

499
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:07,440
Speaker 1: kind of glad I'm in it. But I guess maybe

500
00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: regret or remorse isn't the right answer. I just wondered

501
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:12,600
Speaker 1: if you missed it at all?

502
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:16,600
Speaker 6: I miss it in my day to day. I feel

503
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,960
Speaker 6: like I missed through routine, you know. I think that

504
00:30:19,320 --> 00:30:22,360
Speaker 6: it in how my life is now. It's like you

505
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,520
Speaker 6: don't know if you're going to be in New York

506
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 6: or la or if you're going to be in Paris,

507
00:30:26,640 --> 00:30:29,719
Speaker 6: Like you just don't know. And with sport, it's you know,

508
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 6: you kind of we have the same World Cups every

509
00:30:31,960 --> 00:30:35,560
Speaker 6: single year and you have panamsa World Championship. So I

510
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 6: think that I kind of missed that, like knowing you

511
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,040
Speaker 6: know that I'm going to wake up at five point

512
00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,120
Speaker 6: thirty to go training. I have lunch and then I

513
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:46,560
Speaker 6: have you know, the second training. Like I kind of

514
00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:50,160
Speaker 6: missed that, like just the regiment and the schedule of training.

515
00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,680
Speaker 6: But it's the Olympic Games where I'm just I think

516
00:30:53,720 --> 00:30:57,320
Speaker 6: when I really have fomo and for a hot second,

517
00:30:57,480 --> 00:31:00,680
Speaker 6: you're like, I retired too early. But then the Olympics

518
00:31:00,760 --> 00:31:02,680
Speaker 6: ends and you're like, nah, don't miss it.

519
00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: You know, you said something interesting about the Paris Olympics.

520
00:31:08,280 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: You said, I want to make sure that I quote

521
00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 1: you correctly. You wrote on in an Instagram caption. That is,

522
00:31:15,120 --> 00:31:17,640
Speaker 1: you said that the Paris Olympics will be remembered as

523
00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 1: the games that violated human rights? What did you mean

524
00:31:22,160 --> 00:31:22,520
Speaker 1: by that?

525
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:29,400
Speaker 6: So the French Olympic Committee in September of twenty twenty

526
00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:36,120
Speaker 6: three announced that French athletes, specifically French athletes who are

527
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,800
Speaker 6: Muslim and observed hijab would not be allowed to compete for,

528
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,520
Speaker 6: you know, the French national team and represent France at

529
00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 6: the Olympic Games. And in my eyes and in the

530
00:31:48,440 --> 00:31:53,880
Speaker 6: eyes of you know, anyone with a conscience and moral compass,

531
00:31:53,920 --> 00:31:58,480
Speaker 6: that is a gross, you know, human rights violation to

532
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,200
Speaker 6: tell Muslim women that they're not allowed to compete, and

533
00:32:01,240 --> 00:32:04,880
Speaker 6: this coming from the host country that they're not allowed

534
00:32:04,920 --> 00:32:09,120
Speaker 6: to compete in in the hedge AaB. You know, I

535
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 6: was shocked because, yeah, I mean France, They've been discriminating

536
00:32:14,800 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 6: against Muslims for a really long time, and I think

537
00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 6: that they're just chipping away at a much a much

538
00:32:21,360 --> 00:32:27,280
Speaker 6: larger end goal when it comes to Islamophobia, to be

539
00:32:27,360 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 6: quite frank, but you know, for the host country to

540
00:32:31,880 --> 00:32:35,720
Speaker 6: announce this and for the IOC, the International Olympic Committee,

541
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:41,000
Speaker 6: to take no substantial action at all over that next

542
00:32:41,200 --> 00:32:46,040
Speaker 6: you know year, and yeah, over that next year, I just,

543
00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:49,720
Speaker 6: you know, I felt like we, as Muslim women around

544
00:32:49,760 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 6: the globe were let down, you know, by the IOC,

545
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,680
Speaker 6: by allies, by friends, and especially by even other athletes.

546
00:32:59,280 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 6: How can you know and be presented with this information

547
00:33:03,040 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 6: and say nothing to me? Sports and activism go hand

548
00:33:10,480 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 6: in hand, and I'll never understand an athlete, especially athletes

549
00:33:18,360 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 6: of color, who come from who may come from underrepresented communities,

550
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:26,280
Speaker 6: who you know, may face their own microaggressions within their sport,

551
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:31,480
Speaker 6: to choose to say nothing, to not lend your platform

552
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 6: to advocate for this group of women who are being

553
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:41,200
Speaker 6: mistreated by the host country. You know, I just felt

554
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:45,920
Speaker 6: really really disappointed in a lot of my fellow athletes.

555
00:33:46,760 --> 00:33:49,080
Speaker 1: Why do you think that is or do you think

556
00:33:49,120 --> 00:33:52,920
Speaker 1: this is because of this particular issue, like if it

557
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:58,720
Speaker 1: were something that were not closely tied to religion that

558
00:34:00,840 --> 00:34:02,800
Speaker 1: and this is to give them no excuse, but like,

559
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 1: do you think because of what it was tied to

560
00:34:06,480 --> 00:34:14,600
Speaker 1: that that made other your Olympic colleagues less comfortable speaking out?

561
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:20,160
Speaker 6: It's possible, probable, but you know who knows. I when

562
00:34:20,200 --> 00:34:24,279
Speaker 6: you look at different sporting events around the world, when

563
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:28,080
Speaker 6: you look at even the twenty sixteen Olympic Games in Brazil,

564
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:32,760
Speaker 6: I'm sure you remember the conversation of Zeka and crime

565
00:34:33,080 --> 00:34:39,000
Speaker 6: and poverty and all these different things that we were

566
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 6: going to be met with, you know, by this like

567
00:34:41,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 6: big boogeyman that was in Brazil. I feel like you

568
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 6: don't see that for all host countries that you know,

569
00:34:50,080 --> 00:34:54,000
Speaker 6: are hosting sporting events, like Qatar who hosted the World Cup,

570
00:34:54,440 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 6: it was like human rights violations and that's all anyone

571
00:34:57,560 --> 00:35:01,280
Speaker 6: ever wanted to talk about. But where is that same

572
00:35:01,440 --> 00:35:08,480
Speaker 6: energy for the Western countries or the European countries, the

573
00:35:08,520 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 6: white countries that hosts the sporting events, I feel like

574
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:14,680
Speaker 6: the energy from the media is always different.

575
00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: Now you are somebody who is never shied away from

576
00:35:18,160 --> 00:35:22,840
Speaker 1: using your platform and your status as an athlete to

577
00:35:22,880 --> 00:35:26,520
Speaker 1: speak up on your opinion, to be outspoken, to be

578
00:35:26,719 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: involved in activist causes. You have been very supportive of

579
00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:38,240
Speaker 1: the fight that Palestinians are going through, and you've deeply

580
00:35:38,280 --> 00:35:41,440
Speaker 1: involved yourself in that issue, which, as you know, just

581
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,760
Speaker 1: by nature, is very polarizing for a lot of people

582
00:35:46,840 --> 00:35:50,160
Speaker 1: in this country. As you begin to speak out more

583
00:35:50,360 --> 00:35:56,480
Speaker 1: and on behalf of Palestinians who are undergoing terrible atrocities

584
00:35:56,560 --> 00:35:59,880
Speaker 1: in the Middle East, what has been the reaction that

585
00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:02,160
Speaker 1: you you've received to that when you've used your voice

586
00:36:02,600 --> 00:36:05,160
Speaker 1: for an issue again that's very divisive for people.

587
00:36:06,280 --> 00:36:16,360
Speaker 6: As a Muslim American, we've talked and learned about the

588
00:36:16,400 --> 00:36:20,759
Speaker 6: plight of the Palestinians for like, to be honest, my

589
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,920
Speaker 6: whole life. If you go to any Muslim function, there

590
00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:31,040
Speaker 6: is this conversation around the Palestinian cause, and you know,

591
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 6: whether it's lending financial support, there's some type of fundraiser

592
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 6: that's happening, or just conversations about the occupation that the

593
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:50,640
Speaker 6: Palestinians are under and the very real existence that they

594
00:36:50,680 --> 00:36:58,920
Speaker 6: live under an apartheid regime of Israel. And now, you know,

595
00:36:59,239 --> 00:37:04,920
Speaker 6: post October seventh, twenty twenty three, it seems like the

596
00:37:05,000 --> 00:37:08,480
Speaker 6: tide has shifted a little and you see more people,

597
00:37:08,600 --> 00:37:13,000
Speaker 6: especially gen Z, become hip to what's happening there. And

598
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:20,080
Speaker 6: I see as a public figure, the very real effects

599
00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:25,680
Speaker 6: of what it means to be outspoken in support of

600
00:37:25,800 --> 00:37:31,440
Speaker 6: the Palestinian cause, and I see that they're I know,

601
00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 6: friends who have lost their jobs. I personally have am

602
00:37:37,400 --> 00:37:40,799
Speaker 6: experiencing shadow banning where my posts aren't seen by very

603
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:46,360
Speaker 6: many people. And it's also affected my stream of income,

604
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:48,960
Speaker 6: as it has a lot of my friends who are

605
00:37:48,960 --> 00:37:52,480
Speaker 6: in my field or who kind of have the similar

606
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480
Speaker 6: structure in the way that they know make money, and

607
00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,600
Speaker 6: as like, you know, my faith teaches me to speak

608
00:38:01,640 --> 00:38:05,799
Speaker 6: out against, you know, injustice. So there's not anything that

609
00:38:05,840 --> 00:38:12,640
Speaker 6: I would change personally, but it is really upsetting to

610
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,040
Speaker 6: watch a lot of my friends or even people that

611
00:38:17,120 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 6: I follow now a whole entire year later when this

612
00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:22,799
Speaker 6: is bought to the this is bought you know, to

613
00:38:22,920 --> 00:38:28,560
Speaker 6: everyone's television screens and in your your your feed, whether

614
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,799
Speaker 6: you like it or not, it's there, you know. To

615
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:37,719
Speaker 6: ignore it, I think goes against are very nature as

616
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:41,480
Speaker 6: African Americans. Even like if I just were to take

617
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:44,840
Speaker 6: every move everyone else from the equation and say where

618
00:38:44,960 --> 00:38:48,040
Speaker 6: is the black community, It's to me a shocking you know.

619
00:38:48,160 --> 00:38:51,560
Speaker 6: I think a lot of the historical figures that have

620
00:38:51,760 --> 00:38:54,840
Speaker 6: always meant so much to me, whether it be Malcolm

621
00:38:55,160 --> 00:39:01,800
Speaker 6: X or Muhammad Ali, I feel like even those figures

622
00:39:02,040 --> 00:39:05,560
Speaker 6: are spoke to the plight of the Palestinian. So this

623
00:39:05,640 --> 00:39:08,279
Speaker 6: isn't something that started a year ago, you know. This

624
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 6: is something that has been going on for decades, and

625
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 6: to say nothing, whether it be about the genocide in Palestine,

626
00:39:19,200 --> 00:39:23,480
Speaker 6: the you know, the famine that's happening in Sudan, the

627
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 6: bombing that we're seeing in Lebanon, or just the fact

628
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 6: that our tax dollars are funding this, to me is infuriating,

629
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:36,000
Speaker 6: Like we live at the very top of the tax bracket,

630
00:39:36,320 --> 00:39:38,759
Speaker 6: and I'm like, so all that money you're taking out

631
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:43,520
Speaker 6: of my pocket is going to carpet bombing children. I

632
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:47,759
Speaker 6: just for me, it hurts me at my core, and

633
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,799
Speaker 6: I don't To me, it's a very helpless situation, Like

634
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:55,160
Speaker 6: I feel helpless and for a long time. I would

635
00:39:55,160 --> 00:39:57,640
Speaker 6: say over the last year, and I've talked about this

636
00:39:57,760 --> 00:40:00,840
Speaker 6: with you know, even my team, I've really struggle to

637
00:40:00,880 --> 00:40:04,800
Speaker 6: even be present on social media because of the images

638
00:40:04,840 --> 00:40:08,880
Speaker 6: that you see, but also a very real fear about

639
00:40:08,920 --> 00:40:14,000
Speaker 6: even posting. You know, we see people literally lose their job,

640
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,000
Speaker 6: lose their livelihood, and it becomes, I think, this internal

641
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:23,879
Speaker 6: fight of I do want to lend my support. What

642
00:40:23,960 --> 00:40:27,160
Speaker 6: happens when I do? And you know, what is it

643
00:40:27,239 --> 00:40:29,880
Speaker 6: that I what is it that I'm even supposed to say,

644
00:40:30,120 --> 00:40:34,359
Speaker 6: you know, to help change our funding of you know,

645
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:35,880
Speaker 6: the annihilation of these people.

646
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:39,920
Speaker 1: You know, certainly there have been many examples of people

647
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: who just in voicing concerns and what I've considered to

648
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:49,120
Speaker 1: be fair criticism, that they have been branded anti Semitic

649
00:40:49,360 --> 00:40:52,799
Speaker 1: just for asking questions. So that's something I definitely want

650
00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: to dig a little bit deeper into. But first we're

651
00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:58,040
Speaker 1: going to take a quick break and we'll be back

652
00:40:58,120 --> 00:41:11,320
Speaker 1: with more with empty hash. So we were talking before

653
00:41:11,320 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 1: the break about just sort of the thought process and

654
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,520
Speaker 1: really the risk of expressing any kind of pro Palestinian support,

655
00:41:19,640 --> 00:41:22,920
Speaker 1: asking or raising any questions about the US and involvement.

656
00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:27,960
Speaker 1: How concerned were you that people would label you anti

657
00:41:27,960 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: semitic because you're clearly very very very well versed on

658
00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:35,120
Speaker 1: the issues. But how concerned were you that you might

659
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: be mistakenly labeled and it's anti Semitic?

660
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:41,520
Speaker 6: Not too concerned. I feel like it's part for the course,

661
00:41:41,960 --> 00:41:46,359
Speaker 6: you know, when you are speaking out against something like

662
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 6: this that's been going on for so long. I knew

663
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:50,839
Speaker 6: that I knew that that would happen. And I feel

664
00:41:50,920 --> 00:41:53,279
Speaker 6: like I've been labeled in anti semitic for at least

665
00:41:53,280 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 6: the past three or four years, so I wasn't surprised,

666
00:41:57,040 --> 00:42:01,000
Speaker 6: you know. I think generally, I'm not super certained about myself.

667
00:42:01,120 --> 00:42:03,400
Speaker 6: I have to I have to say that, like you know,

668
00:42:03,480 --> 00:42:07,960
Speaker 6: it's it's really more so for me and trying to

669
00:42:08,080 --> 00:42:11,520
Speaker 6: encourage other people to use their platform. You know, how

670
00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,640
Speaker 6: many people exist on Earth. There's a lot of us,

671
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:18,960
Speaker 6: and I think collectively we can you know, invokee real change.

672
00:42:19,000 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 6: But we also have to believe in our power. And

673
00:42:21,800 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 6: whether you have you know, ten million followers or if

674
00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,319
Speaker 6: you have a few followers, I think that you owe

675
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:35,800
Speaker 6: it to our global community to you know, uplift those

676
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:42,360
Speaker 6: who are facing such gross injustices like the Palestinians. I really, morally,

677
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:45,360
Speaker 6: I don't think it's right to sit and say nothing,

678
00:42:46,120 --> 00:42:48,400
Speaker 6: or to say I see both sides, or even to

679
00:42:48,480 --> 00:42:51,840
Speaker 6: call this a war. There are a group of people

680
00:42:52,080 --> 00:42:56,120
Speaker 6: who live under occupation and live behind a wall. They

681
00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,480
Speaker 6: don't have between security checkpoints. They are living under an

682
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:06,160
Speaker 6: ethnocracy where because they are Muslim, because they are Arab,

683
00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:09,520
Speaker 6: they are not able to have the same rights as

684
00:43:09,760 --> 00:43:14,000
Speaker 6: an Israeli Jew. That is an apart that system. That

685
00:43:14,200 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 6: is Jim Crow, you know, two point zero. And we

686
00:43:18,480 --> 00:43:21,680
Speaker 6: as African Americans, we are we know what that's like.

687
00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:24,000
Speaker 6: We know what it's like to live under. If you

688
00:43:24,120 --> 00:43:27,319
Speaker 6: understand your history, if you understand American history, you know

689
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 6: what that looks like, and you know why it's wrong.

690
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:33,279
Speaker 6: So why now in twenty twenty four we want to

691
00:43:33,280 --> 00:43:36,360
Speaker 6: take a step back and say, oh, we understand both sides.

692
00:43:37,120 --> 00:43:41,640
Speaker 6: Imagine have not having access to clean drinking water or

693
00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,279
Speaker 6: not having the ability to go to school. You know,

694
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:47,120
Speaker 6: there are I think one hundred and fifty five hospitals

695
00:43:47,120 --> 00:43:50,400
Speaker 6: that have been leveled, like they don't exist in Gaza anymore.

696
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 6: If prior to that, I went to a I went

697
00:43:55,280 --> 00:44:02,800
Speaker 6: to a talk with that famous Palestinian photographer motaz's Eyza.

698
00:44:02,960 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 6: He was in Orange County and he was dropping some

699
00:44:07,920 --> 00:44:10,399
Speaker 6: things that I did not know that if you were

700
00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,120
Speaker 6: under the age of fifty five in Gaza, you can't

701
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 6: go to Jerusalem to seek medical treatment. Say you have

702
00:44:16,760 --> 00:44:21,200
Speaker 6: some I don't know, some health concern and if you're

703
00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:25,280
Speaker 6: under that age, under that threshold, you can't seek medical treatment.

704
00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 6: And if you have something like cancer, by the time

705
00:44:29,640 --> 00:44:32,720
Speaker 6: you are you know, you go through that whole legal

706
00:44:32,760 --> 00:44:36,680
Speaker 6: system of requesting permission. He was like most people, by

707
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:39,239
Speaker 6: the time you get permission to go to Jerusalem to

708
00:44:39,280 --> 00:44:41,680
Speaker 6: seek medical treatment, he was like, you're going to die.

709
00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:44,600
Speaker 6: There's no time left. That's it, you know. And I

710
00:44:44,680 --> 00:44:50,840
Speaker 6: can't imagine living in a place where my faith precedes me,

711
00:44:50,920 --> 00:44:56,040
Speaker 6: my ethnicity precedes me, and I'm not given basic human

712
00:44:56,160 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 6: rights because of the way that I was born. That

713
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:03,879
Speaker 6: is inherently wrong. And we owe it to the people

714
00:45:03,960 --> 00:45:07,759
Speaker 6: of Palestine to say something and to invoke change. It's

715
00:45:07,840 --> 00:45:10,800
Speaker 6: our government that is funding this and giving the green

716
00:45:10,880 --> 00:45:14,160
Speaker 6: light to the Israelis to even commit things like this.

717
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 6: And I've always found a strange I have to say,

718
00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:20,640
Speaker 6: I have friends and I know people who say, oh,

719
00:45:20,680 --> 00:45:23,120
Speaker 6: I went to Israel for the summer where I went,

720
00:45:23,239 --> 00:45:25,680
Speaker 6: you know here, I went to Tel Aviv on vacation,

721
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,920
Speaker 6: and I can't imagine going somewhere and seeing this wall

722
00:45:30,400 --> 00:45:33,759
Speaker 6: and seeing the lack of freedom that exists for a

723
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:37,600
Speaker 6: group of people, and then continuing on whatever, you know,

724
00:45:37,760 --> 00:45:41,120
Speaker 6: vacation I plan to have. I can't imagine it. But

725
00:45:41,480 --> 00:45:44,319
Speaker 6: maybe perhaps it's because of my ancestry. I don't know,

726
00:45:44,480 --> 00:45:47,880
Speaker 6: but I just can't imagine ever thinking that that was okay.

727
00:45:48,040 --> 00:45:51,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is interesting over the course of my life,

728
00:45:51,400 --> 00:45:55,600
Speaker 1: like I remember as a young voter, and granted there's

729
00:45:55,680 --> 00:46:01,279
Speaker 1: not even though the US is supportive Israel stretchers back decades, right.

730
00:46:02,239 --> 00:46:07,360
Speaker 1: Social media has definitely changed how people saw the issue

731
00:46:07,480 --> 00:46:10,319
Speaker 1: when I was a young voter versus now, and a

732
00:46:10,360 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 1: lot of that is led by, as you mentioned, gen Z,

733
00:46:12,680 --> 00:46:15,840
Speaker 1: who has been able to sift through some of this

734
00:46:16,040 --> 00:46:20,320
Speaker 1: and say, hey, you know, stop And so, while obviously

735
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,000
Speaker 1: it's not ultimately what you want, you know, you want

736
00:46:24,120 --> 00:46:27,480
Speaker 1: the violence to stop, but does it at least give

737
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: you some measure of hope and encouragement. The fact that

738
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,839
Speaker 1: it does feel like people are asking questions more so

739
00:46:35,920 --> 00:46:36,840
Speaker 1: than they did before.

740
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:41,959
Speaker 6: I think so you know, my my, I think that

741
00:46:42,160 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 6: as a Muslim, I have to have faith, you know,

742
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:46,840
Speaker 6: I have to have faith that there's going to be changed.

743
00:46:47,560 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 6: And I think that part of that is a part

744
00:46:51,120 --> 00:46:56,120
Speaker 6: of you know, true advocacy, that what you're working towards,

745
00:46:56,719 --> 00:46:58,520
Speaker 6: and you know, right now it feels like we're in

746
00:46:58,560 --> 00:47:00,840
Speaker 6: the trenches. I think collect actively as a as a

747
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 6: Muslim community, I think that this is this is like

748
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:06,880
Speaker 6: nine to eleven for us in terms of the Islamophobia,

749
00:47:07,000 --> 00:47:11,400
Speaker 6: and they're very real, like hate the Muslim community is getting.

750
00:47:11,960 --> 00:47:16,399
Speaker 6: You know, we're back to that Arab boogeyman, you know,

751
00:47:16,840 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 6: the sensationalized thing that we all experienced just kids in

752
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:23,600
Speaker 6: nine to eleven, and now I feel like, you know,

753
00:47:23,680 --> 00:47:26,520
Speaker 6: my nieces and nephews will have to unfortunately experience as

754
00:47:26,560 --> 00:47:27,160
Speaker 6: they grow up.

755
00:47:27,239 --> 00:47:29,120
Speaker 1: I was going to ask you that because with the

756
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,400
Speaker 1: ramped up, with it being an election year, and you know,

757
00:47:33,440 --> 00:47:37,919
Speaker 1: we everybody's heard Trump talking about you know, he brought

758
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,879
Speaker 1: in a Muslim Muslim band before, about expanding that band

759
00:47:41,920 --> 00:47:45,080
Speaker 1: if he gets another term in office, and you know,

760
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:48,440
Speaker 1: I didn't want it to feel like a inappropriate comparison

761
00:47:48,480 --> 00:47:51,360
Speaker 1: because I remember very much what the climate was like

762
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,960
Speaker 1: from Muslims after nine to eleven. Yeah, I was going

763
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:56,799
Speaker 1: to ask you, like, how do you do you feel

764
00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 1: like it's worse than it was after nine eleven.

765
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:02,920
Speaker 6: You know, I was so young nine to eleven, so

766
00:48:03,000 --> 00:48:08,520
Speaker 6: I can't speak to, you know, what adults necessarily were experiencing.

767
00:48:09,160 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 6: But I do remember people like changing their names, you know,

768
00:48:13,640 --> 00:48:18,600
Speaker 6: like shortening their names, like you know, kind of removing

769
00:48:18,640 --> 00:48:21,400
Speaker 6: religious markers, whether that be the way that they dressed

770
00:48:21,520 --> 00:48:24,040
Speaker 6: or the way that they like publicly appeared, so that

771
00:48:24,160 --> 00:48:29,720
Speaker 6: they wouldn't be you know, not necessarily yeah, like mislabeled,

772
00:48:30,239 --> 00:48:33,400
Speaker 6: or even so that people wouldn't see their faith first,

773
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:35,600
Speaker 6: so that their faith, you know, like wouldn't precede them.

774
00:48:36,239 --> 00:48:41,560
Speaker 6: And now I feel like social media has really changed everything.

775
00:48:42,160 --> 00:48:46,680
Speaker 6: I think it's given a lot of us courage that

776
00:48:46,760 --> 00:48:48,880
Speaker 6: we didn't have in the past. Like I don't think

777
00:48:49,120 --> 00:48:52,600
Speaker 6: we're we're our parents' generation. You know, people are like, yeah,

778
00:48:52,600 --> 00:48:55,319
Speaker 6: I may lose my job, but here's what I have

779
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,279
Speaker 6: to say. You know, I'm not I'm not you know,

780
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:01,760
Speaker 6: I'm not my parents, I'm not my grandparents. I'm different

781
00:49:01,920 --> 00:49:05,440
Speaker 6: and I because of social media, because of our access

782
00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:09,160
Speaker 6: to information, I think that gen Z Muslim are not.

783
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,440
Speaker 6: We have more access to more like it's not that

784
00:49:14,200 --> 00:49:16,080
Speaker 6: you know, the news just can't tell you a lie,

785
00:49:16,239 --> 00:49:17,920
Speaker 6: and you're going to run with that lie and think

786
00:49:17,960 --> 00:49:20,319
Speaker 6: that that's an accepted as truth. Now you can say, no,

787
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:23,400
Speaker 6: actually that's not true. You know, I've done my research

788
00:49:23,560 --> 00:49:27,120
Speaker 6: and I know you know that that what you've said

789
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:29,440
Speaker 6: and what you've told us is A plus B equal

790
00:49:29,520 --> 00:49:32,880
Speaker 6: C is actually you know, incorrect and it's not true.

791
00:49:33,040 --> 00:49:36,960
Speaker 6: And so I think that we're a bit more fearless

792
00:49:36,760 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 6: as millennials in gen Z and that we are ready

793
00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,839
Speaker 6: to burn it all down, whether it's the uncommitted or

794
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:45,800
Speaker 6: you know, people who don't want to necessarily put themselves

795
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:48,839
Speaker 6: in the box. We're like, no, we we will see

796
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:50,680
Speaker 6: change in our lifetime by hook or bicro.

797
00:49:52,160 --> 00:49:54,800
Speaker 1: You know, uh, you've talked about what your life looks

798
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:58,239
Speaker 1: like now. You know, given the fact that you're all

799
00:49:58,239 --> 00:50:00,480
Speaker 1: over the country all the time. Before we've and started

800
00:50:00,480 --> 00:50:02,000
Speaker 1: this podcast, the first thing I asked you was like,

801
00:50:02,040 --> 00:50:06,640
Speaker 1: where exactly are you having this conversation with me from?

802
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:09,920
Speaker 1: Because you are generally all over the place. But nevertheless,

803
00:50:09,960 --> 00:50:14,960
Speaker 1: one of your post fencing career lanes has been in

804
00:50:15,120 --> 00:50:18,560
Speaker 1: children's books, and you've got a New York Times bestselling

805
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 1: children's book series which is spectacular. And I extra relate

806
00:50:23,080 --> 00:50:25,560
Speaker 1: to this now because I am also in the process

807
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:31,160
Speaker 1: of finishing my children's book as well. But what made

808
00:50:31,760 --> 00:50:35,600
Speaker 1: children's books kind of a comfortable space and a lane

809
00:50:35,640 --> 00:50:35,840
Speaker 1: for you?

810
00:50:36,120 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 6: I knew when I got my book deal from my memoir,

811
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:42,960
Speaker 6: and this was I think back twenty seventeen. In the

812
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:44,560
Speaker 6: back of my mind, I knew I wanted to go

813
00:50:44,560 --> 00:50:52,759
Speaker 6: into children's literature, and so much of my journey as

814
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:58,720
Speaker 6: a person, as an athlete has been to invoke change,

815
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,719
Speaker 6: and to be honest, it's not it. It's never at

816
00:51:02,719 --> 00:51:04,840
Speaker 6: the forefront. It wasn't at the forefront of my mind.

817
00:51:05,040 --> 00:51:07,319
Speaker 6: You know, when I was a kid, even coming up

818
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:10,080
Speaker 6: through fencing, I just knew that I was always one

819
00:51:10,080 --> 00:51:14,840
Speaker 6: of one in spaces. And so that journey began to

820
00:51:14,880 --> 00:51:17,239
Speaker 6: look different when I looked at TSA and said, hey,

821
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,760
Speaker 6: there's never been a black woman on the US woman's

822
00:51:20,760 --> 00:51:23,960
Speaker 6: saber team, and I knew it in my mind, I

823
00:51:23,960 --> 00:51:27,560
Speaker 6: could do it. I didn't have any credentials or any

824
00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:33,840
Speaker 6: of the the you know, kind of those those metals

825
00:51:33,920 --> 00:51:36,600
Speaker 6: or anything that would attest to my ability to do it.

826
00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:38,440
Speaker 6: I just believed in myself and I was like, this

827
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:40,239
Speaker 6: is something I'm gonna do, if not for me, for

828
00:51:40,320 --> 00:51:41,240
Speaker 6: like my younger self.

829
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 5: Right.

830
00:51:41,880 --> 00:51:45,319
Speaker 6: I wanted I wanted young black girls to be able

831
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,440
Speaker 6: to see themselves in that space. I wanted young must

832
00:51:47,480 --> 00:51:49,120
Speaker 6: and girls to be able to see themselves in the space.

833
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:51,960
Speaker 6: And I feel like it's been the same with children's literature.

834
00:51:52,640 --> 00:51:54,680
Speaker 6: When I was a kid, you didn't have books like

835
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:57,279
Speaker 6: I used to read Babysitters Club. There weren't any black

836
00:51:58,000 --> 00:51:58,399
Speaker 6: that book.

837
00:51:58,719 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: I remember.

838
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:03,719
Speaker 6: I really tried to relate to the stories, but it's

839
00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:07,600
Speaker 6: not the same. It is not even American Girl. You know,

840
00:52:07,760 --> 00:52:12,000
Speaker 6: the the black doll in the black character in the

841
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,600
Speaker 6: American Girls series was a slave. Looking back, I can't

842
00:52:15,640 --> 00:52:17,160
Speaker 6: believe my parents read that.

843
00:52:17,200 --> 00:52:19,920
Speaker 1: I did not know that. I was older than you,

844
00:52:20,040 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: so I didn't I'd heard of this the series before.

845
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 1: I didn't know it was the slave. No, she was a.

846
00:52:25,200 --> 00:52:30,040
Speaker 6: Slave, was to play. Her name was Addie. I had

847
00:52:30,120 --> 00:52:32,560
Speaker 6: this doll. I still have this doll at my parents' house.

848
00:52:33,120 --> 00:52:37,440
Speaker 6: All of the things that came with Addie were connected

849
00:52:37,480 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 6: to her living in this in like slave quarters. She

850
00:52:40,719 --> 00:52:44,080
Speaker 6: had this broom. She had this like straw bed, like

851
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,760
Speaker 6: it's wild, but that that that was our reality of children.

852
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,920
Speaker 6: So I was like, you know what, I'm going to

853
00:52:50,000 --> 00:52:52,840
Speaker 6: be the change and I'm going to write these books.

854
00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:58,640
Speaker 6: And it was something I feel like was just long overdue.

855
00:52:58,760 --> 00:53:00,680
Speaker 6: I had never had a book as a kid that

856
00:53:00,719 --> 00:53:04,040
Speaker 6: had a character in hedjab. I had never seen the

857
00:53:04,080 --> 00:53:07,520
Speaker 6: story of hijab told from the perspective of a Muslim

858
00:53:07,640 --> 00:53:11,800
Speaker 6: family that wasn't demonized, that wasn't about oppression, that didn't

859
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,640
Speaker 6: come from some man. It's like everything about what I

860
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 6: know of heijab and to me within our community is

861
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 6: not what you see on TV. It's like for us,

862
00:53:21,160 --> 00:53:24,479
Speaker 6: it's it's very normal for you to wear hedjab and

863
00:53:24,880 --> 00:53:28,319
Speaker 6: it's a part of our culture as Muslims. I love

864
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:32,400
Speaker 6: that The Proudest Blue, my first children's book, tells the

865
00:53:32,440 --> 00:53:34,719
Speaker 6: story of hedjab in a way that's so beautiful. But

866
00:53:35,400 --> 00:53:38,640
Speaker 6: how the younger sister, Fayza sees Asia's first day of

867
00:53:38,640 --> 00:53:43,279
Speaker 6: wearing hejab as this beautiful marker. And when Asia does

868
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:47,200
Speaker 6: experience bullying, you see what she does in that moment

869
00:53:47,320 --> 00:53:50,320
Speaker 6: and she never you know, like holds onto the words

870
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:53,799
Speaker 6: that the bully says, and to me, you don't have

871
00:53:53,840 --> 00:53:56,120
Speaker 6: to be Muslim to get the message of the book.

872
00:53:56,800 --> 00:54:01,319
Speaker 6: It's that you know, bullying may happen, but you know

873
00:54:01,400 --> 00:54:03,440
Speaker 6: those words of the bully aren't yours to keep. And

874
00:54:03,480 --> 00:54:05,960
Speaker 6: so it's about being proud of who you are. And

875
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,320
Speaker 6: with the Kindest Read, it's about kindness, like who doesn't

876
00:54:10,360 --> 00:54:13,120
Speaker 6: want to impart the value of kindness, you know, to

877
00:54:13,200 --> 00:54:16,839
Speaker 6: their children. And what I love about my newest book,

878
00:54:16,880 --> 00:54:19,279
Speaker 6: The Boldest White it is I don't know if you

879
00:54:19,280 --> 00:54:23,279
Speaker 6: can see the cover, but I love that it's my

880
00:54:23,440 --> 00:54:26,320
Speaker 6: first book that has both the characters fight zen Asia

881
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:30,600
Speaker 6: and Hedjab on the cover. But it's also, you know,

882
00:54:30,680 --> 00:54:34,040
Speaker 6: a story about fencing. It's a story about faith and

883
00:54:34,160 --> 00:54:37,480
Speaker 6: about bravery and all the things that I feel like

884
00:54:37,600 --> 00:54:40,120
Speaker 6: I had to be. I had to be brave, I

885
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:43,799
Speaker 6: had to be resilient, I had to work hard in

886
00:54:43,880 --> 00:54:47,360
Speaker 6: order to realize my dreams as an Olympic medalist. And

887
00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:52,440
Speaker 6: I just like that with with children's literature, you're able

888
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:58,239
Speaker 6: to create and show children what they can be, and

889
00:54:58,400 --> 00:55:02,000
Speaker 6: that's something that's often missed, I think for us as adults.

890
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,480
Speaker 6: You know, we kind of get to a point where

891
00:55:04,480 --> 00:55:06,560
Speaker 6: we harden and we're like, no, this is my baseline,

892
00:55:06,600 --> 00:55:09,000
Speaker 6: this is who I am. And with children, it's just

893
00:55:09,080 --> 00:55:13,680
Speaker 6: kind of limitless imagination. And I can't wait for you know,

894
00:55:13,760 --> 00:55:16,880
Speaker 6: more kids to read this book and maybe even go

895
00:55:16,920 --> 00:55:19,120
Speaker 6: out and try fencing. You know, there's a lot of

896
00:55:19,480 --> 00:55:24,400
Speaker 6: missed opportunity when it comes to these more niche sports

897
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:28,640
Speaker 6: like lacrosse or hockey or fencing. I think that once

898
00:55:28,719 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 6: we as African Americans get a hold of them, we're

899
00:55:30,800 --> 00:55:32,680
Speaker 6: just going to like take off and it'll blow up.

900
00:55:33,440 --> 00:55:36,759
Speaker 6: But you know, we're still I think at the we're

901
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:38,319
Speaker 6: still at the start. We're still at the beginning of

902
00:55:38,360 --> 00:55:39,360
Speaker 6: the race in that journey.

903
00:55:39,600 --> 00:55:43,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you could sort of put it, capsize it, Like,

904
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:46,640
Speaker 1: how do you want children to feel after they read

905
00:55:46,960 --> 00:55:48,360
Speaker 1: The Boldest White.

906
00:55:48,680 --> 00:55:52,480
Speaker 6: I want them to feel brave. I want them to

907
00:55:53,719 --> 00:55:58,840
Speaker 6: think about fear from a different perspective. You know, we're

908
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:01,560
Speaker 6: even as adults, were all all we all have moments

909
00:56:01,680 --> 00:56:05,720
Speaker 6: of doubt, we all are afraid to try new things.

910
00:56:06,400 --> 00:56:11,160
Speaker 6: But in The Boldest White, you see Faiza practice with

911
00:56:11,200 --> 00:56:16,000
Speaker 6: her sister. You see her practice at home. She she

912
00:56:16,440 --> 00:56:20,120
Speaker 6: fences in her bedroom. She does a shadow fencing, you know,

913
00:56:20,160 --> 00:56:25,600
Speaker 6: with a mirror and that's exactly what sport is. Sport

914
00:56:25,840 --> 00:56:31,120
Speaker 6: is you practicing and you practicing, and you practicing until

915
00:56:31,320 --> 00:56:35,240
Speaker 6: you become better, until you kind of find that inner

916
00:56:35,520 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 6: lioness or lion where you're just like you embody all

917
00:56:40,960 --> 00:56:43,560
Speaker 6: of those things that you've practiced and you believe it.

918
00:56:43,719 --> 00:56:46,120
Speaker 6: And I think that that's what the Boldest White is.

919
00:56:46,160 --> 00:56:49,560
Speaker 6: It's about being bold, being brave, and being fearless. And

920
00:56:49,600 --> 00:56:52,080
Speaker 6: it doesn't always have to be in sport. I think

921
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,920
Speaker 6: it can be in you know, different different avenues in

922
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,479
Speaker 6: your life. But it's a choice. I think being brave

923
00:56:57,600 --> 00:56:58,960
Speaker 6: is a choice, and I think that we all have

924
00:56:59,000 --> 00:57:00,480
Speaker 6: the ability to make that decision.

925
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:04,320
Speaker 1: Do you see writing children's book is sort of something

926
00:57:04,360 --> 00:57:06,960
Speaker 1: you'll do like the rest of your life. I'm not

927
00:57:07,000 --> 00:57:08,680
Speaker 1: saying it's the only thing, because you do so many,

928
00:57:08,719 --> 00:57:12,120
Speaker 1: but like, does this feel like you've discovered like a

929
00:57:12,200 --> 00:57:13,799
Speaker 1: real like passion here?

930
00:57:14,239 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 6: It's always after the book tour, because this is my

931
00:57:17,480 --> 00:57:19,880
Speaker 6: third children's book, and it's always after the book tour

932
00:57:19,920 --> 00:57:22,439
Speaker 6: when I'm like, you know how book, You know how

933
00:57:22,520 --> 00:57:27,280
Speaker 6: touring is for a book. You're exhausted, but I can't

934
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 6: wait for you to get into children's literature. Jamal because

935
00:57:30,520 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 6: the children's book tour is different. It's, you know, an

936
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:39,440
Speaker 6: adult touring. You're very very heavy questions and it's like

937
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:43,880
Speaker 6: mentally physically it could be like really dreamed with children's books. Yeah,

938
00:57:43,880 --> 00:57:49,760
Speaker 6: you're physically tired of the touring, but there's there's this

939
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:55,800
Speaker 6: levity that's there and the kids are so cute. I

940
00:57:55,800 --> 00:57:58,720
Speaker 6: don't know, I wish that I had a series like

941
00:57:58,760 --> 00:58:02,120
Speaker 6: this as a kid. Like on Tourgamult, I meet parents

942
00:58:02,120 --> 00:58:04,760
Speaker 6: who have named their children after characters in the book,

943
00:58:05,520 --> 00:58:09,320
Speaker 6: which is I'm so cute. I'm like, I love this.

944
00:58:09,400 --> 00:58:12,560
Speaker 6: I met a baby who was named after Faiza, you know,

945
00:58:12,600 --> 00:58:16,400
Speaker 6: she was the fifth child of this family. But they're like, no,

946
00:58:16,520 --> 00:58:20,160
Speaker 6: this series is like every night we were reading these

947
00:58:20,200 --> 00:58:22,680
Speaker 6: books to our kids and when we were thinking about

948
00:58:22,720 --> 00:58:24,880
Speaker 6: you know, baby names, were like why you said, that's perfect?

949
00:58:25,480 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 6: And so I don't know, in my mind, because I'm competitive,

950
00:58:29,200 --> 00:58:31,600
Speaker 6: I could see me having like a rainbow of books,

951
00:58:31,680 --> 00:58:33,080
Speaker 6: you know, like we have read, we have white, we

952
00:58:33,120 --> 00:58:35,360
Speaker 6: have blue. Maybe the next one's purple, maybe it's green,

953
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:37,840
Speaker 6: who knows, But you know, I don't know what the

954
00:58:37,880 --> 00:58:40,640
Speaker 6: future holds. But you know, as we say and our

955
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:43,320
Speaker 6: faith we say inshallah, God willing you know whatever is

956
00:58:43,320 --> 00:58:43,680
Speaker 6: meant to be.

957
00:58:44,440 --> 00:58:46,280
Speaker 1: Well, I'm glad you mentioned that about how you had

958
00:58:46,320 --> 00:58:50,440
Speaker 1: people who name their kids after your characters, because I was.

959
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,400
Speaker 1: One of my questions was for you is like, what

960
00:58:52,520 --> 00:58:55,000
Speaker 1: are some of the most memorable interactions that you've had

961
00:58:55,000 --> 00:58:58,000
Speaker 1: with children and their parents on your book tours.

962
00:58:58,760 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 6: I think that fencing clubs around the country owe me

963
00:59:02,520 --> 00:59:06,880
Speaker 6: a cut because most people are fencing. I can't even

964
00:59:06,960 --> 00:59:08,800
Speaker 6: tell you how many kids come and they're fencing kit.

965
00:59:09,000 --> 00:59:11,080
Speaker 6: They bring their masks so they'll bring a glove for

966
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:14,080
Speaker 6: you to sign. And my sister and I we were

967
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:16,600
Speaker 6: I think one of two Muslim families at our club.

968
00:59:16,640 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 6: And I went to a club in the middle of

969
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:22,200
Speaker 6: Manhattan on you know, twenty fifth Street. Twenty fifth and

970
00:59:22,280 --> 00:59:25,080
Speaker 6: seventh is where I fence. So this was a huge club,

971
00:59:25,160 --> 00:59:28,960
Speaker 6: had a lot of people, but didn't have Muslims fencing,

972
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,680
Speaker 6: not even a ton of African Americans. So to see

973
00:59:33,720 --> 00:59:37,560
Speaker 6: that through these books or even through you know, like

974
00:59:37,640 --> 00:59:41,000
Speaker 6: my my young adult adaptation of my memoir, I think

975
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:45,040
Speaker 6: that it's creating space for kids who look like us

976
00:59:45,080 --> 00:59:47,520
Speaker 6: to say, okay, I can try fencing. You know, let

977
00:59:47,560 --> 00:59:49,919
Speaker 6: me let my parents do a deep dive and find

978
00:59:49,960 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 6: fencing in my area. And I don't believe that everyone

979
00:59:54,120 --> 00:59:56,720
Speaker 6: needs defence. I know that it's very expensive. I don't

980
00:59:56,720 --> 00:59:59,520
Speaker 6: think that everyone should necessarily fence. I just really believe

981
00:59:59,520 --> 01:00:03,000
Speaker 6: in children being active. So I love that kids are fencing.

982
01:00:03,280 --> 01:00:06,480
Speaker 6: I'm always encouraging the parents at these book signings to

983
01:00:06,480 --> 01:00:10,240
Speaker 6: make sure they're putting their kids in a sport at

984
01:00:10,280 --> 01:00:13,240
Speaker 6: some level, at some point, because I do think it

985
01:00:13,360 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 6: creates a framework of being active and taking care of

986
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,280
Speaker 6: your body that you carry, you know, throughout your life.

987
01:00:20,480 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: Might we one day see you with a fencing academy.

988
01:00:25,120 --> 01:00:28,000
Speaker 6: I mean, we'll see. I'm working on some things. You know.

989
01:00:28,200 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 6: I tried coaching. I coached when I was training. I

990
01:00:31,360 --> 01:00:34,080
Speaker 6: coached my high school team. My sister was on it.

991
01:00:34,720 --> 01:00:37,720
Speaker 6: And you know what I don't like. I don't like

992
01:00:37,760 --> 01:00:40,240
Speaker 6: having to repeat myself. I feel like once I've said it,

993
01:00:40,760 --> 01:00:42,800
Speaker 6: that should be did you need to just do it?

994
01:00:43,240 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 6: And with kids, I mean, they're just they have to

995
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:49,520
Speaker 6: hear it, you know, fifty eleven times before before they

996
01:00:49,560 --> 01:00:51,840
Speaker 6: do it all right.

997
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: So you don't know if you have the patience.

998
01:00:53,840 --> 01:00:55,720
Speaker 6: Coaching is not for everybody.

999
01:00:56,120 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's true. All right, before I get you out

1000
01:00:58,960 --> 01:01:01,640
Speaker 1: of here, I'm going to ask you the messy question,

1001
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:05,760
Speaker 1: the question designed for controversy. All right, just crazy to

1002
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:08,600
Speaker 1: say after we discuss the war in Middle East, but right,

1003
01:01:08,680 --> 01:01:12,160
Speaker 1: exactly right, this is a messy question for you. You

1004
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:14,640
Speaker 1: once gave Michelle Obama a fencing lesson?

1005
01:01:15,480 --> 01:01:18,000
Speaker 6: Did you stick?

1006
01:01:18,120 --> 01:01:21,160
Speaker 1: Stab poke? I don't know what the terminology the first.

1007
01:01:21,000 --> 01:01:26,360
Speaker 6: Lady, So it's funny I was given no heads off

1008
01:01:26,440 --> 01:01:30,040
Speaker 6: that I was giving Michelle Obama a lesson. I'm standing

1009
01:01:30,120 --> 01:01:33,160
Speaker 6: in the middle of Times Square in this designated area.

1010
01:01:33,680 --> 01:01:36,520
Speaker 6: I'm with a bunch of little kids, and I'm just

1011
01:01:36,600 --> 01:01:38,800
Speaker 6: waiting and this secret service starts to show up, but

1012
01:01:38,840 --> 01:01:41,120
Speaker 6: you can't even tell. They're just standing around with their

1013
01:01:41,120 --> 01:01:42,800
Speaker 6: back to and they have these ear pieces, and no

1014
01:01:42,840 --> 01:01:45,520
Speaker 6: one tells me what I'm waiting for by them. And

1015
01:01:45,560 --> 01:01:48,840
Speaker 6: then she just appears. It was like a light shine

1016
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:51,840
Speaker 6: on her. She walked over, and in my mind, I'm like,

1017
01:01:52,080 --> 01:01:54,680
Speaker 6: oh my god, like this is happening. It was like

1018
01:01:54,720 --> 01:01:58,440
Speaker 6: Michelle Obama and I'm sure to keep everything safe, we

1019
01:01:58,520 --> 01:02:02,960
Speaker 6: had foam foam one. There was no no real saber,

1020
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:05,720
Speaker 6: no real fencing sword in the mix. Kind of just

1021
01:02:05,760 --> 01:02:07,320
Speaker 6: teaching her, you know, how to move forward, has to

1022
01:02:07,320 --> 01:02:09,320
Speaker 6: step back out of lunch. It was quick, it was

1023
01:02:09,400 --> 01:02:12,360
Speaker 6: in and out, But definitely I think my most memorable

1024
01:02:12,360 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 6: moment's fencing.

1025
01:02:13,320 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 1: Well if D, thank you so much for joining me

1026
01:02:15,400 --> 01:02:19,720
Speaker 1: here on politics and discussing all these different things, and

1027
01:02:19,960 --> 01:02:22,720
Speaker 1: of course good luck with this latest iteration of your

1028
01:02:22,920 --> 01:02:25,280
Speaker 1: your children's, but all of them are. I just think

1029
01:02:25,280 --> 01:02:28,360
Speaker 1: it's such a fantastic series. And again I have a

1030
01:02:28,400 --> 01:02:32,520
Speaker 1: different appreciation for them going through my own journey, and

1031
01:02:33,280 --> 01:02:35,200
Speaker 1: you know, years from now, I don't know if you

1032
01:02:35,240 --> 01:02:37,800
Speaker 1: thought about this much like how we look at Ludacris,

1033
01:02:38,040 --> 01:02:40,480
Speaker 1: not Weed, but Ludacris. There's a generation that looks at

1034
01:02:40,520 --> 01:02:43,560
Speaker 1: Ludacris and llkuj and they don't realize they were rappers before.

1035
01:02:43,560 --> 01:02:46,560
Speaker 1: They're like, oh, they're actor. So people might be looking

1036
01:02:46,560 --> 01:02:48,240
Speaker 1: at you like, oh she used to fence. Oh no, no,

1037
01:02:48,280 --> 01:02:50,920
Speaker 1: I just know her as an author so powerful.

1038
01:02:51,760 --> 01:02:55,720
Speaker 6: Well here's hoping. But I have to thank you for

1039
01:02:55,760 --> 01:02:59,080
Speaker 6: always having me on your platforms, and you are my

1040
01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:02,960
Speaker 6: favorite sports journalist ever and I always look up to you,

1041
01:03:03,200 --> 01:03:04,480
Speaker 6: So thank you again.

1042
01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,360
Speaker 1: For segment to go, And you guys know what that means.

1043
01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:11,960
Speaker 1: I got questions to answer up next your viewer slash

1044
01:03:12,160 --> 01:03:16,480
Speaker 1: listener questions, and I have plenty of answers coming up

1045
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:29,480
Speaker 1: next on the final segment of Politics All Right, Time

1046
01:03:29,480 --> 01:03:31,880
Speaker 1: for this week's viewer slash listener question, which comes from

1047
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:34,919
Speaker 1: Stephan or it could be Stephen either one. Hey Jamil.

1048
01:03:35,000 --> 01:03:37,320
Speaker 1: I had a quick question about superstars like Lebron James,

1049
01:03:37,320 --> 01:03:39,520
Speaker 1: who have amassed a lot of power in and out

1050
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:41,440
Speaker 1: of the court. How could they do more to make

1051
01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:43,840
Speaker 1: known their stance in light of their contracts which seems

1052
01:03:43,840 --> 01:03:48,200
Speaker 1: to restrict participation in politics. I don't know that it's

1053
01:03:48,240 --> 01:03:52,880
Speaker 1: necessarily restricted by anything contractually. Certainly, I think there is

1054
01:03:52,920 --> 01:03:56,400
Speaker 1: an element in all professional sports of what's understood need

1055
01:03:56,480 --> 01:03:59,560
Speaker 1: not be said by that. I think they understand sometimes

1056
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:03,160
Speaker 1: where the line could potentially be. They also understand that

1057
01:04:03,440 --> 01:04:05,560
Speaker 1: if they crossed the line, that there could be a

1058
01:04:05,600 --> 01:04:08,320
Speaker 1: price and a penalty to pay. But I think Lebron

1059
01:04:08,440 --> 01:04:11,680
Speaker 1: has actually, for a superstar of his stature, he's been

1060
01:04:12,400 --> 01:04:17,320
Speaker 1: more aggressive about making sure that people understand where he

1061
01:04:17,360 --> 01:04:20,680
Speaker 1: stands with things. Just recently with the presidential election, he

1062
01:04:20,920 --> 01:04:24,200
Speaker 1: gave a full endorsement of Kamala Harris. He explained why

1063
01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,480
Speaker 1: he was supporting her. He did it both on social

1064
01:04:26,520 --> 01:04:30,400
Speaker 1: media and also was asked about it by the press.

1065
01:04:30,440 --> 01:04:33,440
Speaker 1: He answered all the questions about it, and if you

1066
01:04:33,440 --> 01:04:36,040
Speaker 1: think back to the first presidency, it was Lebron who

1067
01:04:36,120 --> 01:04:39,480
Speaker 1: called out Donald Trump his specific words where you bump,

1068
01:04:40,680 --> 01:04:42,760
Speaker 1: you know. Even though as we've seen some of these

1069
01:04:42,760 --> 01:04:47,640
Speaker 1: awful cases with police brutality, Lebron has been among many

1070
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:50,560
Speaker 1: and certainly a leader in terms of lending his voice

1071
01:04:51,080 --> 01:04:54,400
Speaker 1: to these issues. But one athlete can't be everything for everybody.

1072
01:04:54,760 --> 01:04:56,720
Speaker 1: I think he's shown it in words and in action,

1073
01:04:56,880 --> 01:04:59,320
Speaker 1: particularly when you look at him building a school an

1074
01:04:59,360 --> 01:05:02,400
Speaker 1: acron which shows how he feels about education and more

1075
01:05:02,440 --> 01:05:06,480
Speaker 1: specifically about students who come from, you know, challenging low

1076
01:05:06,520 --> 01:05:10,280
Speaker 1: income backgrounds, how he feels about them making sure they

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Speaker 1: have the proper access to education. But in general, I

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Speaker 1: think coming out politically can be a very scary thing

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Speaker 1: for a lot of professional athletes. You know, Lebron to

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Speaker 1: some degree, he does have the luxury of the fact

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Speaker 1: that he's Lebron James and he's already a billion dollar athlete,

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Speaker 1: so financially, there's not a ton to lose for him

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Speaker 1: in the same way it would be for somebody else.

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Speaker 1: But this is also why I strongly applaud the women

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Speaker 1: of the WNBA, because they have taken some very aggressive

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Speaker 1: political stances and they don't have nearly as much that

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Speaker 1: they can afford to lose, but they still have decided

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Speaker 1: to wage the fight anyway. And I think a lot

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Speaker 1: of the reason why they do is because they have

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Speaker 1: constantly had to be in the position where they're fighting

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Speaker 1: for their dignity and they're fighting for respect, and they're

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Speaker 1: fighting to be heard, and they're fighting for equality. So

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Speaker 1: the fight feels very very familiar to them. But listen,

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Speaker 1: I think we've seen that when an athlete wants to

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Speaker 1: say something, they're going to say it regardless of the consequences,

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Speaker 1: and so I think their participation in politics and speaking

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Speaker 1: on social justice issues is purely a personal decision. All right,

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Speaker 1: thank you Steven or Stefan for your question. Now, if

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Speaker 1: you would like to ask me a question, you can

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01:06:31,640 --> 01:06:33,840
Speaker 1: email me your question or send me a video with

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01:06:33,960 --> 01:06:35,800
Speaker 1: your question. But if you send me a video, make

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Speaker 1: sure it is thirty seconds or less. Send your questions

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Speaker 1: to Spoloitics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. That's

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Speaker 1: Politics twenty twenty four at gmail dot com. Spolitics is

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01:06:45,480 --> 01:06:51,000
Speaker 1: spelled spo l tics. Also make sure to Followspolitics pod

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Speaker 1: on Instagram and on TikTok. A new episode of Politics

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Speaker 1: drops every Thursday. It's available on iHeart or wherever you

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Speaker 1: get your Podcasts. Is Politics where sports and politics don't

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01:07:03,080 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: just mix, they matter. Politics is the production of iHeart

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Speaker 1: podcast and The Unbothered Network. I'm your host Jamel Hill.

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01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:15,720
Speaker 1: Executive producer is Taylor Chakoigne. Lucas Hymen is head of

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Speaker 1: audio and executive producer. Megan Armstrong is associate producer. Original

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Speaker 1: music for Spolitics provided by Kyle VISs from wiz FX