WEBVTT - How to Develop Into an Inspirational Leader 0:00:02.520 --> 0:00:09.360 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg Business 0:00:09.400 --> 0:00:13.680 Week with Carol Masser and Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:14.200 --> 0:00:17.040 Well, today's probably a pretty good day. Where's good day? 0:00:17.040 --> 0:00:19.720 As ever? To talk about leadership, we saw here in 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.160 the US this week the inauguration of a new president 0:00:22.200 --> 0:00:24.800 and administration. Carol, you and I twenty four hours ago, 0:00:24.880 --> 0:00:28.560 we're covering that. We're still covering the president's first full day. 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:31.360 We do wait to hear from him as he plans 0:00:31.400 --> 0:00:33.760 to speak with tech executives to make a big infrastructre 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:35.680 announcement at the White House. We'll bringing those comments as 0:00:35.720 --> 0:00:38.720 we do get them. Leadership, though, and different types of 0:00:38.800 --> 0:00:41.880 leaders and what makes a good leader is Adam Glinski's world. 0:00:41.960 --> 0:00:45.040 He's Paul Collello, Professor of Leadership and Ethics at Columbia 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:48.080 Business School. He's got a brand new book out, Inspire, 0:00:48.400 --> 0:00:52.000 The Universal Path for Leading Yourself and Others. Professor Glinski 0:00:52.080 --> 0:00:55.120 joins us here in the Bloomberg Interactive at Brokers Studio. 0:00:55.640 --> 0:00:57.920 Before we get into what you write about this inspiring, 0:00:57.920 --> 0:01:00.560 infuriating continuum, the different types of leaders that were out there, 0:01:00.920 --> 0:01:02.560 I want to hear from you how this book came 0:01:02.600 --> 0:01:07.080 together because you essentially created a class at Columbia Business 0:01:07.080 --> 0:01:10.080 School that every person who goes to Columbia is required 0:01:10.120 --> 0:01:10.400 to take. 0:01:11.160 --> 0:01:14.000 Yeah. So I've been studying leadership and teaching leadership since 0:01:14.000 --> 0:01:15.800 two thousand and two. Originally I was at the calleg 0:01:15.840 --> 0:01:19.440 School of Management TAD at Berkeley and then at Columbia, 0:01:19.480 --> 0:01:22.240 and around two thousand and six I was actually teaching 0:01:23.200 --> 0:01:25.520 the FBI, the Federal Bureau of Investigation. We had a 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.080 program at Kellogg for agents to come in, about sixty 0:01:29.120 --> 0:01:31.760 agents at the time, and one of them just started 0:01:31.800 --> 0:01:34.520 talking about a leader that inspired them, and I was 0:01:34.600 --> 0:01:41.160 really struck immediately by the transformation in physical transformation. His 0:01:41.280 --> 0:01:45.840 eyes lit up right, he almost looked smiled, he got expressive, 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.680 his voice spoke really quickly with a little higher pitch, 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:53.400 and it was clearly that he had been fundamentally affected 0:01:53.400 --> 0:01:56.600 and impacted by this leader. Then the next year, a 0:01:56.600 --> 0:02:00.400 different FBI agent, ironically enough, started saying, I want to 0:02:00.440 --> 0:02:02.520 talk about an inspiring person. I want to tell you 0:02:02.520 --> 0:02:06.080 about all the infuriating leaders I had. And then so 0:02:06.320 --> 0:02:09.760 I started asking hundreds and thousands and probably tens of 0:02:09.760 --> 0:02:11.919 thousands of people across the globe. A very simple question. 0:02:12.560 --> 0:02:15.040 Tell me about a leader that inspired you, and tell 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.920 me about a leader that infuriated you. And notice both 0:02:18.000 --> 0:02:21.440 both types of leaders transform you inside. Right, one is 0:02:21.480 --> 0:02:23.880 like a well spring, the other is, you know, a 0:02:23.880 --> 0:02:26.880 seething cauldron. And one of the things I realized really 0:02:26.960 --> 0:02:30.400 quickly is that they're basically mirror images of each other. 0:02:30.720 --> 0:02:34.800 So the inspiring leader, right has that optimistic, big, big vision. 0:02:35.200 --> 0:02:39.040 The infuritying leader is a pessimist, pedantic, right, you know, 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:42.880 the inspiring leader's courageous, infering leaders cowardly inspiring leader is 0:02:43.160 --> 0:02:46.160 elevates people and friendly leader diminishes people. And so you 0:02:46.160 --> 0:02:49.600 can start to understand that this happened. The second really 0:02:49.680 --> 0:02:52.680 fascinating thing about this research is I started asking people 0:02:52.680 --> 0:02:55.520 all over the world, so every continent that you can 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.720 think of, you know, dozens of countries, And what I 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:02.680 discovered was there was a single inspiring or in feruiting 0:03:02.720 --> 0:03:05.880 characteristic that wasn't mentioned in every single country in the world. 0:03:05.880 --> 0:03:09.560 So there's something universal in the very tapestrying fabric of 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.760 the human mind that really captures. 0:03:11.320 --> 0:03:13.920 This anything between men and women differences. 0:03:13.800 --> 0:03:15.679 I have not found any It's a great question, you know, 0:03:15.720 --> 0:03:18.040 that's That's another one, which is that you know, you know, 0:03:18.160 --> 0:03:23.959 women find you know, courageous, big picture, you know, generous 0:03:23.960 --> 0:03:27.400 people inspiring, you know, and so do men. And it 0:03:27.400 --> 0:03:30.480 doesn't really vary that much by It doesn't vary by gender, 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:34.840 by ethnicity, by country, by culture. There's something really fundamental 0:03:35.160 --> 0:03:38.200 about about that. I think there's some variations sometimes in 0:03:38.480 --> 0:03:41.000 like you can see Democrats and Republicans right where Democrats 0:03:41.000 --> 0:03:43.360 put a little bit more emphasis, let's say, on the 0:03:43.400 --> 0:03:46.400 empathy side, and Republicans might put a little bit more 0:03:46.440 --> 0:03:49.120 emphasis on the strength side of the equation. 0:03:49.400 --> 0:03:51.400 Well to that point, and I want to jump right 0:03:51.440 --> 0:03:53.840 into it because I want to go we do want 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:56.480 to go over some leaders at a certain point, and 0:03:56.800 --> 0:03:59.440 you know, whether they're inspiring or infuriating. But I think 0:03:59.440 --> 0:04:02.000 to myself, here you are telling us about these different 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:05.920 leadership qualities or the way that people view leaders that 0:04:05.960 --> 0:04:09.600 they've encountered in their lives. I think of somebody's top 0:04:09.600 --> 0:04:13.520 of mind. President Trump to many people, to more than 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.760 seventy million voters, he's an inspiring leader to many people 0:04:18.360 --> 0:04:20.640 who didn't vote for him, and even some people who've 0:04:20.640 --> 0:04:24.560 worked in previous administrations. In his previous administration, he's not. 0:04:24.680 --> 0:04:27.719 He's an infuriating leader. How can one single person be 0:04:27.880 --> 0:04:29.320 both of those things to different people? 0:04:29.440 --> 0:04:31.919 So I'll say three things about that. The first is 0:04:31.960 --> 0:04:33.919 that one of the things that I think my research 0:04:33.920 --> 0:04:37.080 has discovered is that there's these three universal factors, and 0:04:37.120 --> 0:04:38.840 I'll sort of go through them talking about Trump in 0:04:38.880 --> 0:04:42.599 a second. But it also tells us something fundamental. We're 0:04:42.640 --> 0:04:46.719 not inspiring infuriating born that way, and we're not forever 0:04:46.800 --> 0:04:49.760 that way. We can be inspiring today and inferating tomorrow, 0:04:49.960 --> 0:04:52.240 and we can be inspiring on some dimensions and inferuit 0:04:52.320 --> 0:04:54.279 in other dimensions. So in some ways you can say 0:04:54.320 --> 0:04:56.880 all of us, every one of us is both inspiring 0:04:56.880 --> 0:04:59.400 and inferuiting, or has the potential to be both at 0:04:59.400 --> 0:05:01.960 different time, right. And So I think that's one thing. 0:05:02.240 --> 0:05:04.520 The second thing I would say is that there's two 0:05:04.600 --> 0:05:07.160 things about Trump that I think everyone would agree with. 0:05:07.480 --> 0:05:14.120 One is that he has a simple, compelling visual vision 0:05:14.600 --> 0:05:17.920 that people everyone can understand. Right, make America great again. 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:20.880 It's even an acronym. Right. And the second thing is 0:05:20.920 --> 0:05:24.800 that no one will contend with the fact that he 0:05:24.920 --> 0:05:29.359 presents himself as a strong and courageous protector and two 0:05:29.480 --> 0:05:32.479 is that he comes across as authentically passionate. And so 0:05:32.600 --> 0:05:35.320 those two are to the fundamental of like how we 0:05:35.360 --> 0:05:37.520 are in the world, this exemplar thing. And so he 0:05:37.640 --> 0:05:40.839 has this very clear vision and he is very clear 0:05:40.920 --> 0:05:44.640 presents himself as this strong, courageous, passionate you know, protector. 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:47.440 Now where he falls on the infurity in side is 0:05:47.440 --> 0:05:50.200 I think two things. Some people find the vision itself 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.520 to be infuriating, like exclusionary it only includes a certain 0:05:54.240 --> 0:05:57.560 category of Americans, for example, and find it to be 0:05:57.720 --> 0:06:01.039 maybe harsh. And then the second thing is I don't 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:04.039 think any person would argue with the fact that the 0:06:04.080 --> 0:06:06.960 third fact, so the three universal factors are being visionary, 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:08.800 how we see the world, being an exemplar how we 0:06:08.839 --> 0:06:11.120 are in the world. And then the final one is 0:06:11.279 --> 0:06:13.760 mentor how we treat people in the world. And I 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:16.840 don't think anyone would argue with the fact that Trump 0:06:16.920 --> 0:06:19.600 doesn't treat people very well. Right. You know, he had 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:22.600 more turnover in his first term than any other president 0:06:22.600 --> 0:06:25.920 in terms of you know, the main leaders within his administration. 0:06:26.279 --> 0:06:30.440 He is notorious, right for throwing people under the bus, right, 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.200 And when I ask people around the world, you know, 0:06:32.200 --> 0:06:35.720 describe an inspiring leader, it's always someone who share success 0:06:36.040 --> 0:06:39.560 but takes on blame and burden. But with Trump, right, 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:42.560 he forever steals success. It's me, me, me, me me 0:06:42.640 --> 0:06:44.919 when things go well, and it's you you u uu 0:06:44.960 --> 0:06:45.880 when it goes bad. 0:06:46.040 --> 0:06:50.080 Well and you know, And yet step back for a second, 0:06:50.160 --> 0:06:54.560 and whether he took accountability for this or or said that, 0:06:54.760 --> 0:06:57.880 you know, in some of the policies that he implemented 0:06:58.000 --> 0:07:01.080 or had people implement, whether it's tariffs on China, many 0:07:01.080 --> 0:07:03.480 would say this was long and coming, Like there are 0:07:03.520 --> 0:07:07.680 certain things he's done that actually people applaud him for. Right, 0:07:07.720 --> 0:07:10.600 and those terriffs with China and push back on China 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:13.480 carried over to the Biden administration. Now we're like getting 0:07:13.480 --> 0:07:15.280 ready for kind of what comes next. But I'm just 0:07:15.280 --> 0:07:20.120 saying that, is it only inspiring leaders that actually get 0:07:20.200 --> 0:07:24.880 some stuff done? Is it infuriating leaders also, and you 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:28.200 know or leaders that maybe you know, people don't want 0:07:28.200 --> 0:07:31.640 to be around that still bring about some changes. 0:07:31.880 --> 0:07:33.640 Absolutely. I mean, I think if you look at some 0:07:33.680 --> 0:07:37.280 of the most famous leaders in our world, you know, 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.239 for example, Steve Jobs right, even in some ways Elon 0:07:41.360 --> 0:07:44.560 Musk right, that they fit that mold right, being sort 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:48.560 of you know, very clear vision, you know, authentic and passionate, 0:07:49.080 --> 0:07:51.200 but not always treating people very well. Right, And so 0:07:51.280 --> 0:07:54.600 those people might be great top of the top leaders, 0:07:54.920 --> 0:07:57.320 but they wouldn't be very good managers, for example, you know. 0:07:57.360 --> 0:07:59.440 And I think that really makes the difference. One thing 0:07:59.440 --> 0:08:02.800 I'll say about Trump, though, is that the things that 0:08:02.840 --> 0:08:08.280 he's concerned, he's very good at recognizing what other people's 0:08:08.280 --> 0:08:11.120 concerns and fears are, right, and so he's able then 0:08:11.200 --> 0:08:13.720 to package those in a way like I think everyone 0:08:13.720 --> 0:08:17.240 would agree we need to have a very clear immigration 0:08:17.400 --> 0:08:20.880 policy to have an effective United States. Now we may 0:08:20.920 --> 0:08:23.040 disagree with some of those elements, but he's very good 0:08:23.080 --> 0:08:25.360 at simplifying it, right, Like we need to shut our 0:08:25.400 --> 0:08:27.680 border down, you know, to figure out what's going on, 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:30.280 and we could maybe then sensibly reopen it at a 0:08:30.320 --> 0:08:33.000 later point. And I think you see that the trans 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:36.040 issue is another one that he really expertly understood, which 0:08:36.080 --> 0:08:39.720 is that people are concerned about fairness and athletics. They're 0:08:39.720 --> 0:08:42.360 concerned about could someone show open a bathroom that would 0:08:42.360 --> 0:08:45.080 make me you know, could a man schopen a woman's bathroom? 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:48.040 You know? Using this issue as a ruse, and so 0:08:48.120 --> 0:08:51.040 he understood people's fears around that and was able to 0:08:51.240 --> 0:08:51.920 articulate them. 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:53.600 Well, what do you think corporate leaders need to do 0:08:53.640 --> 0:08:56.040 going forward? Because often they'll have their employees say listen, 0:08:56.080 --> 0:08:58.920 I'm uncomfortable. I don't think of our you know, employee 0:08:58.960 --> 0:09:01.160 base as male or female. I think there's other choices. 0:09:01.480 --> 0:09:02.960 What do you think is going to how this is 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:04.839 going to play out in corporate America? 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:06.680 I mean, that's a great question. I mean, I'll say 0:09:06.800 --> 0:09:08.040 the first thing I'll say is, I do think that 0:09:08.080 --> 0:09:10.720 one of the reasons why Kamala Harris lost the election 0:09:11.200 --> 0:09:14.599 was two things that are on vision. She never articulated 0:09:15.080 --> 0:09:17.440 the true state of the economy, which was that it 0:09:17.440 --> 0:09:18.440 was much better than. 0:09:18.360 --> 0:09:21.080 The economy stupid, right, Like, yeah, there's a reason why 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:21.800 people say that she. 0:09:21.800 --> 0:09:24.080 Didn't defend it. She didn't come out and say, yeah, 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:26.360 prices are higher than they should be. But like she 0:09:26.360 --> 0:09:28.520 should have said every single day about djob growth. That's 0:09:28.520 --> 0:09:31.000 what Trump would have done, right every single day. And 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:35.080 the second thing is she never articulated at any point 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.800 what her vision around let's say, gender identity was, Like 0:09:39.040 --> 0:09:41.280 I have no idea, Like I know that she generally 0:09:41.320 --> 0:09:44.319 supports the rights, but like, are there limits to that? 0:09:44.360 --> 0:09:46.640 Like what is the fabric of that? Like Trump was 0:09:46.760 --> 0:09:48.920 very clear and when when you look at some of 0:09:48.920 --> 0:09:51.880 the exit polling, you see two things. People at accurate 0:09:51.880 --> 0:09:54.760 information on the economy voted for Biden and they voted 0:09:54.760 --> 0:09:56.880 for Trump if they didn't, and if they're concerned about 0:09:56.920 --> 0:09:59.080 the trans issue, they voted for Trump. And so I 0:09:59.080 --> 0:10:01.280 think those are two things. What should corporate leader. 0:10:01.840 --> 0:10:03.760 Well, I was just going to say, we have plenty 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.839 of time at least until we start to hear from 0:10:05.840 --> 0:10:09.000 the president, and we are awaiting that at the White House. 0:10:10.120 --> 0:10:12.400 I do want to ask, because your book it's not 0:10:12.520 --> 0:10:17.440 just about leaders on the international stage and leaders in 0:10:17.480 --> 0:10:19.880 the border. I mean you talk about parenting and being 0:10:19.880 --> 0:10:22.800 a leader in the home. What are some takeaways that 0:10:23.440 --> 0:10:26.400 people who are not necessarily in managerial positions right now 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:27.760 can take from the book. 0:10:27.880 --> 0:10:30.320 Yeah, well, you know, I coined a phrase that I 0:10:30.360 --> 0:10:32.640 use in the book called the leader amplification effect. And 0:10:32.640 --> 0:10:35.360 the leader amplification effect is that when you're a leader, 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.120 you're essentially on stage. Eyes are on you. And one 0:10:38.120 --> 0:10:40.440 of the things we know from cognitive psychology, and I 0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.120 know you've had a lot of cognitive psychologists on this 0:10:42.240 --> 0:10:47.880 show is that attention amplifies signals and then those also 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:52.360 intensify reactions. So when you're on stage, your signals, whatever 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.839 they could be verbal, nonverbal, good, bad, small, big, are 0:10:55.840 --> 0:10:58.760 going to get amplified, and then people's reactions are going 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:01.920 to be intensified. And so what is a leader, Well, 0:11:01.920 --> 0:11:04.719 a leader is someone who has power and status. Those 0:11:04.720 --> 0:11:06.440 are two of the things I've studied the most in 0:11:06.480 --> 0:11:10.280 my career social hierarchy for twenty years. And essentially it's 0:11:10.280 --> 0:11:13.600 someone with some authority, right, and also people look up 0:11:13.640 --> 0:11:16.680 to that person. Guess what parents are, right? Parents are 0:11:16.920 --> 0:11:19.360 They have authority over their kids, and their kids generally 0:11:19.480 --> 0:11:21.520 look up to them or at least look to them 0:11:21.600 --> 0:11:24.760 for information. And so I have coined a phrase that 0:11:24.800 --> 0:11:28.000 I call the parent amplification effect, a corollary of the leadership, 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.120 which is like they pick up on things. I'll tell 0:11:30.120 --> 0:11:33.680 you a very short story about this that I really 0:11:33.720 --> 0:11:38.120 love about a former doctoral student at Columbia who worked 0:11:38.120 --> 0:11:42.000 with some people you've had on like Sondra Mats. But 0:11:42.800 --> 0:11:45.680 when she was twelve years old, she overheard her mom 0:11:45.720 --> 0:11:48.640 say to someone else, both girls are great at piano. 0:11:49.760 --> 0:11:51.920 But I can't remember right now. Her sister's they know 0:11:52.000 --> 0:11:53.559 has a real knack for it. Abby. I think it 0:11:53.640 --> 0:11:55.200 was their sister Abby has a real knack for it. 0:11:55.679 --> 0:11:59.199 And she was so incensed she never played piano again. 0:11:59.440 --> 0:12:01.960 She was like, you know, basically, f you, mom. You 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:04.600 think she's got better thing. And you know, I saw 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.720 her mom. And this is what's great about the leader 0:12:06.760 --> 0:12:10.520 amplification effect is that we can be totally unaware that 0:12:10.559 --> 0:12:14.840 we're we're we're having this impact. And you know, you know, 0:12:14.960 --> 0:12:16.840 I told her mom the story. She's like, I had 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:19.280 no idea why she quit PIATO, Like that happened like 0:12:19.320 --> 0:12:23.000 twenty years earlier. And Barry Salzburg, who is a he 0:12:23.120 --> 0:12:26.840 was CEO of Global Deloitte. About six months after being CEO, 0:12:26.920 --> 0:12:29.760 he noticed there was bananas at every meeting. He's like, huh, 0:12:30.120 --> 0:12:32.640 like banana is an important symbol of Deloitte. I've been 0:12:32.640 --> 0:12:34.160 here thirty years or someone else? 0:12:34.280 --> 0:12:36.040 Did he bring to a media No. 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:38.120 No, what happened was is his first meeting he went to. 0:12:38.640 --> 0:12:41.239 He picked up a banana with a little bit of enthusiasm, 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:45.160 and his the executive assistant, was like, have bananas at 0:12:45.200 --> 0:12:47.880 every meeting Barry's at you know, he didn't even say 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:50.720 anything right, and so you know, whether it's your parent, 0:12:50.880 --> 0:12:53.559 whether it's you know. And that's why I always say 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.560 it's not about a position of leadership. It's like whenever 0:12:56.880 --> 0:12:59.800 you matter to someone else, right, it could be a 0:13:00.200 --> 0:13:01.880 So it could be in the dating relationship when you 0:13:01.920 --> 0:13:04.920 care about the opinion of another person, right, all of 0:13:04.960 --> 0:13:08.199 their expressions and could you're paying attention right intentions? Really 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:09.120 that currency. 0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.280 Well with kids, I think about that a lot. We've 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:13.240 talked about this, how kids can be branded as well, 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:16.079 you're a math kid or you're really not a math kid, 0:13:16.360 --> 0:13:17.920 and they just kind of get it in their head 0:13:18.200 --> 0:13:20.880 and and kind of go that route. We want to 0:13:20.920 --> 0:13:23.000 ask you about a couple of different leaders. You have 0:13:23.200 --> 0:13:26.640 mentioned Elon Musk. You know, it's interesting. We're just coming 0:13:26.640 --> 0:13:29.000 off the inauguration. We saw these big tech ceo so 0:13:29.040 --> 0:13:31.000 they're kind of top of mind for me when you 0:13:31.000 --> 0:13:33.720 think of Elon, when you think of Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, 0:13:34.120 --> 0:13:38.760 Sundar Pitchai of Alphabet, I don't know, inspira inspiring leaders, 0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:39.760 infuriating leaders. 0:13:39.880 --> 0:13:41.199 I mean I think there, you know, they can be 0:13:41.240 --> 0:13:43.160 a little bit of both. Right, and some of them, 0:13:43.320 --> 0:13:46.439 you know, clearly. Any you know, one of the things 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:50.040 that we are inspired by is people who do amazing 0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.040 things right, right, Like think of Steph Curry, Like, how 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:55.839 many people are you know? I Steph Curry is my 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.320 favorite player, right, he can just do things that no 0:13:58.320 --> 0:14:00.880 one else can do. Josh Allen on the football field, right, 0:14:00.960 --> 0:14:03.360 is the same way. And so you know, people who 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.440 create things are always going to hold, you know, a 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.400 big attention in the world. And that's true and throughout 0:14:09.480 --> 0:14:11.440 history of the United States, you know, you go back 0:14:11.480 --> 0:14:14.960 to you know, some of the famous people in eighteen hundreds, 0:14:15.000 --> 0:14:17.520 you know, And and so I think that there's a 0:14:17.520 --> 0:14:20.920 way that we really get captivated by that that vision 0:14:21.000 --> 0:14:24.640 and that super competence. But also they can start veering 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:26.640 off into the wrong vision, right, and they can also 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.600 start not really paying attention to other people. So one 0:14:30.600 --> 0:14:32.800 of the problems of the leader and amplification effect is 0:14:32.800 --> 0:14:36.560 sometimes we aren't aware of the impact. Right. That's exactly 0:14:36.640 --> 0:14:38.600 what happened with Erica's mother. She had no idea this 0:14:38.640 --> 0:14:40.960 all in comment would have that impact. 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:43.960 And so you know, so those employee surveys about your 0:14:44.000 --> 0:14:45.080 bosses are really good. 0:14:45.240 --> 0:14:47.080 Yeah, I mean, I think they're really good. I think so. 0:14:47.240 --> 0:14:50.760 I mean, I'm a huge fan of three sixty feedback, right, 0:14:50.800 --> 0:14:55.080 And I think it's you know, I created, I actually 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:57.160 created a thing called, you know, an are you and 0:14:57.320 --> 0:15:00.240 am I inspiring scale that people can sort of measure. 0:15:00.400 --> 0:15:01.840 But the best way to use it is to take 0:15:01.840 --> 0:15:04.000 it yourself and then have other people take it, and 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:06.600 then you can say, I might think I'm visionary, but 0:15:06.880 --> 0:15:09.240 they don't see me as visionary. And that's the you know, 0:15:09.360 --> 0:15:11.600 that's what we want, is we want accurate understanding of 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:13.680 how other people perceive us. 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.920 So I'm thinking about other leaders out there who are 0:15:17.920 --> 0:15:20.040 in our world. We talked about Elon Musk, we talked 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:24.280 about some of the other tech leaders. We just celebrated 0:15:24.320 --> 0:15:27.040 the life of Jimmy Carter and a lot of people 0:15:27.800 --> 0:15:32.000 in remembering Jimmy Carter talked about how he had these 0:15:32.080 --> 0:15:37.040 qualities that you know, really inspired people around him, but 0:15:37.200 --> 0:15:40.040 he was an ineffective president because he was a micromanager 0:15:40.080 --> 0:15:42.640 and he didn't play the politics game. How do you 0:15:43.320 --> 0:15:46.120 balance where do you balance on this continue to be effective? 0:15:46.240 --> 0:15:47.640 Yeah? I think that's right. I think, Well, if we 0:15:47.760 --> 0:15:50.120 just got you know, the last chapter of the book 0:15:50.600 --> 0:15:54.200 talks about actually the connection between Jimmy Carter and Donald Trump. 0:15:54.400 --> 0:15:58.440 They both lost reelection, you know, and you know, fortunely 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.000 was able to get in a couple of paragraphs at 0:16:00.120 --> 0:16:03.480 Donald Trump becoming president again, you know after that. But 0:16:03.600 --> 0:16:07.080 you know, they lost because I think different different parts 0:16:07.080 --> 0:16:10.440 of what I call the VEM diagram of inspiring leadership, visionary, 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:14.680 exemplar and mentor Donald Trump. Sorry, Jimmy Carter was clearly 0:16:15.040 --> 0:16:17.960 he was deficient on the visionary end, right. He never 0:16:18.480 --> 0:16:22.480 articulated a clear vision first presidency. And there's an amazing 0:16:22.640 --> 0:16:27.040 quote by I can't remember exactly what it was, but 0:16:27.200 --> 0:16:31.320 it was about even cabinet secretaries need a vision in 0:16:31.400 --> 0:16:34.960 order to execute within their departments, and Jimmy Carter never 0:16:35.000 --> 0:16:38.840 gave him that vision, so they couldn't execute effectively. And 0:16:39.040 --> 0:16:42.240 the micromanagement, you know, the famous story of Jimmy Carter 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:45.440 approving the tennis schedule everything, you know, you know, it's 0:16:45.560 --> 0:16:48.360 unclear whether it's actually true or what role played, but 0:16:48.440 --> 0:16:51.600 it fit the image of who he was, which was 0:16:51.640 --> 0:16:54.480 someone who was lost in the weeds, a micromanager couldn't 0:16:54.480 --> 0:16:57.600 see the thing. But all those other qualities right, his 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:02.120 his courage, his calmness, his humanity, the those shown brightly 0:17:02.840 --> 0:17:05.720 outside of the Oval office, and so in many ways, 0:17:05.800 --> 0:17:10.200 right his entire image was rehabilitated in that process. And 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:13.320 you know, Donald Trump, you know, really benefited from the 0:17:13.359 --> 0:17:17.159 fact that distance left him. He lost because he was 0:17:17.160 --> 0:17:20.680 a poor mentor, but the distance allowed people to forget 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:22.120 how he treated people well. 0:17:22.160 --> 0:17:24.600 So much in this book you cover a lot of ground, Adam, 0:17:24.640 --> 0:17:27.639 Thank you so much, Adam Galinsky. Paul Colillo, Professor of 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:30.280 Leadership and Ethics at the Columbia Business schal His new 0:17:30.280 --> 0:17:34.240 book Inspire, The Universal Path for Leading yourself and others. 0:17:34.280 --> 0:17:36.040 It is out and really gives you a lot of 0:17:36.040 --> 0:17:37.520 things to think about in terms of leadership. 0:17:37.560 --> 0:17:42.040 Today you're listening to Bloomberg BusinessWeek with Carol Masser and 0:17:42.119 --> 0:17:45.040 Tim Steneveek on Bloomberg Radio. 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:47.760 Well, speaking of the president just today and his presidency. 0:17:47.760 --> 0:17:50.560 Investors are closely watching further moves from Donald Trump to 0:17:50.600 --> 0:17:53.680 assess their effect on markets. JP Morgan Chase, for example, 0:17:54.080 --> 0:17:58.040 is establishing a war room just for this purpose. Exactly 0:17:58.119 --> 0:18:00.600 how policy proposals will play out is not clear yet. 0:18:00.640 --> 0:18:04.200 For example, shares of companies with tariff risks largely shrugged 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:08.120 off the threats, at least for now. Today, in response 0:18:08.160 --> 0:18:11.680 to what was reported yesterday. For an idea though of opportunities, 0:18:12.119 --> 0:18:14.639 we bring in Christi Acolian. She's head of I Shares 0:18:14.680 --> 0:18:18.680 investment strategy over at Blackrock. She joined us from San Francisco. 0:18:19.040 --> 0:18:23.960 Let's talk themes for this administration. Christy, where are you bullish? 0:18:25.080 --> 0:18:25.399 Yeah? 0:18:25.440 --> 0:18:27.800 Absolutely, And Simon Carrol, thanks for having me. It's great 0:18:27.800 --> 0:18:30.360 to be here. You know, I think that the broad 0:18:30.480 --> 0:18:33.240 theme of the investment outlook that we just put out 0:18:33.240 --> 0:18:35.800 for twenty twenty five is really that we're risk on, 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.000 so we are overweight US equities. We still see really 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:43.800 strong you know translation from that strong economic growth that 0:18:43.800 --> 0:18:46.600 we're seeing all the way down to strong corporate profitability. 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:50.400 We're most bullish right now on large caps. We're really 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:53.119 preferring to stay up in quality, even though on a 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.040 day like today, I know we saw small caps pop 0:18:55.080 --> 0:18:57.359 a lot. Something like qua L, which is our I 0:18:57.520 --> 0:19:01.040 Shares quality ETF is where we see the best opportunity 0:19:01.080 --> 0:19:04.000 because we think that the fundamentals matter just as much 0:19:04.040 --> 0:19:06.119 too as some of the narratives that we're getting, and 0:19:06.160 --> 0:19:09.320 from a fundamental perspective, we see the strongest earning growth 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:12.640 coming from the highest quality companies. So that's the number 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:14.280 one area we're bullish right now. 0:19:14.040 --> 0:19:16.080 In terms of you know, christ is. Of course, this 0:19:16.200 --> 0:19:18.159 is the first full day of President Trump in the 0:19:18.200 --> 0:19:22.600 White House. We're watching various policies start to come out, 0:19:22.680 --> 0:19:25.359 or at least indications of ones, and tariff's in particular. 0:19:25.400 --> 0:19:27.040 I think there are some concerns. We talked with our 0:19:27.080 --> 0:19:31.240 Gina Martin Adams earlier of our Bloomberg intelligence team that targets, 0:19:31.400 --> 0:19:35.239 you know, tariffs at target economies usually impact companies, you know, 0:19:35.320 --> 0:19:38.680 so if you target something like Canada, which the President 0:19:38.880 --> 0:19:41.720 seems to be you know, indicating or possibly talking about 0:19:41.800 --> 0:19:44.480 US auto companies, you're going to feel it. All of 0:19:44.480 --> 0:19:48.240 this then ultimately impacts the companies, maybe impacts operating margins. 0:19:48.240 --> 0:19:51.880 So how do you roll that into your optimistic view. 0:19:53.240 --> 0:19:55.920 Yeah, I mean, you know, our optimistic view is certainly 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:59.560 not without risk. So we're certainly focusing on trade policy 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:03.560 as one source of unknowns, immigration policy as another, and 0:20:03.600 --> 0:20:06.440 then potential for deregulation. So I think it's a little 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.760 bit of a mixed bag in terms of the direction 0:20:09.280 --> 0:20:12.920 that that can have of economic growth. You know, if 0:20:12.920 --> 0:20:14.359