Speaker 1: And we're back with another episode of Separation and Anxiety.
Speaker 2: I'm your host Marcus Jordan and I'm Larsa Pippen, and today.
Speaker 1: We have a very special episode of Separation Anxiety because
Speaker 1: we have our very first.
Speaker 3: Guests we do. It's one of my favorite people on
Speaker 3: the whole planet. It's someone that I turned to when
Speaker 3: I have questions, concerns, problems. You're kind of like you
Speaker 3: my fixer, Jason.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's what I do exactly.
Speaker 1: So welcome Attorney Jason Gillor. Thank you for joining the podcast. First,
Speaker 1: tell our listeners what kind of law you're specialize in.
Speaker 4: So I have a general practice. We pretty much do everything.
Speaker 4: It's always about solving problems and guiding clients through different
Speaker 4: legal issues, business issues, and generally helping them.
Speaker 2: Awesome, Larca tell.
Speaker 3: Us how so, you guys, it's kind of a crazy story.
Speaker 3: I met Jason because we were literally friends for a
Speaker 3: long time through a mutual friend Michelle, and then I
Speaker 3: had a minor problem, so I moved into this house
Speaker 3: when I was newly separated. It was like I woke
Speaker 3: up one day and I was like, I can't live
Speaker 3: in the same house anymore with my ex I like
Speaker 3: rented this house really quickly, and I realized that there
Speaker 3: were cameras inside the house that were recording me. Okay,
Speaker 3: so I called Jason. I'm like, oh my god, Jason,
Speaker 3: the house that I rented has cameras and they are
Speaker 3: recording in the house while I'm in the house. Because
Speaker 3: the landlord would text me and say, hey, did you
Speaker 3: forget to set the alarm? Oh my gosh, and stuff
Speaker 3: like that. It was like really creepy stuff. Do you
Speaker 3: remember when I called you? Yeah, of course, And I
Speaker 3: was just like traumatized. I was like, how do I
Speaker 3: get out of the situation? What do we do? And
Speaker 3: then what did you end up helping me do?
Speaker 4: No, there was a whole litney of things, like he
Speaker 4: would call and complain that Larcia left the air conditioning
Speaker 4: at the wrong temperature. He would say, well, if you're
Speaker 4: going to leave the house, you should put the AC down,
Speaker 4: And you didn't put the AC down. We're like, wait
Speaker 4: a minute, how does this guy know what she's doing.
Speaker 4: It was like a creeper, and it became pretty apparent
Speaker 4: that he was actually it seemed like he was watching
Speaker 4: the through the cameras. The house was rented how.
Speaker 2: Long was he before you got you noticed, LARSA.
Speaker 3: I think I was in the house like three weeks, right.
Speaker 4: Yeah it was, it was, yeah, it was. It was
Speaker 4: early on in the least.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it was probably two three weeks in. But the
Speaker 3: guy was really creepy because when I first met him,
Speaker 3: he literally was like, whatever you need, I will be
Speaker 3: here whatever you need. And I kind of felt like
Speaker 3: he was kind of flirting with me a little bit,
Speaker 3: and I was like, Oh, it's so great, so I
Speaker 3: can move in whenever I want. I thought I thought
Speaker 3: it was a good thing. I was like, oh, he
Speaker 3: loves me, right, And then before I knew it, like
Speaker 3: I started realizing that, like he's texting me, he knows
Speaker 3: when I'm home and when I'm not.
Speaker 2: So what was the strategy, Jason? How did you?
Speaker 4: I mean, it's it's pretty much the same strategy for
Speaker 4: every case, Like you have to know who you're playing with, right,
Speaker 4: So he did some investigative work on the house on
Speaker 4: the guy, and then based off of our research, it
Speaker 4: seemed like a good portion of the house was actually
Speaker 4: built without permits.
Speaker 3: Oh no, oh my gosh, I remember that. That's great.
Speaker 4: Yeah, it was so again, it was kind of like
Speaker 4: one of these scenarios where you know, we needed out
Speaker 4: of the least the house wasn't properly permitted. If this
Speaker 4: all came to light, you know, he would run the risk.
Speaker 4: You know, maybe the house gets condemned, right, I mean
Speaker 4: he could have permit issues, there could be leans, et cetera.
Speaker 4: And then eventually, you know, there's back and forth and
Speaker 4: everyone kind of came to the conclusion like instead of
Speaker 4: you know, going to war, everyone should just kind of,
Speaker 4: you know, lick their wounds and go their own waysts in.
Speaker 2: Everybody.
Speaker 4: Everybody has them. It's a function of finding it for sure.
Speaker 4: And you know, and that's kind of you know, part
Speaker 4: of the lesson. When you've been around long enough and
Speaker 4: the really good lawyers they realize, you got to you
Speaker 4: gotta know who you're playing with. Right. If you know
Speaker 4: the players, you understand the field. You know, that's how
Speaker 4: you can be the most effective. And a lot of
Speaker 4: cases they resolve because of pressures that can exist outside
Speaker 4: of the courtroom. Right, It's not just the merits, but
Speaker 4: also understanding that, Okay, you could be right on this case,
Speaker 4: but if these issues come to light, that might destroy
Speaker 4: your business, destroy your personality. And that's and that's why
Speaker 4: cases subtle.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's awesome. Well, without further ado is get into
Speaker 1: some questions exactly. So Jason, when a couple comes in
Speaker 1: and asks to draw up a prenup, can you tell
Speaker 1: if they're going to last or not?
Speaker 4: So prenups?
Speaker 3: If you got married, would you have a prenup?
Speaker 4: Uh? Well, I'm definitely not going to answer that question.
Speaker 2: A smart man right there.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm going to take the fifth on that one.
Speaker 4: Prenups aren't necessarily a bad thing, right, So, for example,
Speaker 4: like one of the advantages to prenups is that like
Speaker 4: if if if one party has a comes from family
Speaker 4: money for example, right, a lot of their wealth and
Speaker 4: investments and assets that they have they're tied to other
Speaker 4: family members, right, And so if you get married and
Speaker 4: you don't have a prenup, those assets and those business
Speaker 4: interests could become ingrained in like divorce proceedings or child
Speaker 4: support proceedings, and no one really wants to subject their
Speaker 4: family to that, right. It's disruptive. It can be that
Speaker 4: it can have like created a lot of economic hardship.
Speaker 4: So there's something advantages, right, and it also helps both ways, right,
Speaker 4: because then everyone says, look, no matter what happens, you know,
Speaker 4: perhaps the non bread winning spouse will be guaranteed a
Speaker 4: certain amount of support or a certain amount of money.
Speaker 4: So there are some advantages, right, Yeah, And it's a contract.
Speaker 4: It's like everything else. It's a contract. If you can
Speaker 4: be explicit and spell out the rights and other issues
Speaker 4: in the document, at least everyone knows, Okay, if A,
Speaker 4: if the event A happens, then this is what everyone gets,
Speaker 4: event B, event C.
Speaker 1: So Lars and I previously talked about an example of
Speaker 1: an outrageous well, we both thought it was outrageous. I
Speaker 1: guess agreement in a prenup and so it was a
Speaker 1: weight clause essentially, And so one spouse said that if
Speaker 1: the other spouse went over one hundred and thirty five pounds,
Speaker 1: then they were entitled to five hundred thousand dollars in
Speaker 1: damages per pound over one thirty five in the course
Speaker 1: of the marriage. So, I mean, have you seen any
Speaker 1: you know, cases of crazy stuff like that.
Speaker 4: Personally, haven't seen anything like that. The few agreements that
Speaker 4: I've I want to say the few, but the agreements
Speaker 4: that I've been involved with generally, they're pretty boilerplate, right,
Speaker 4: I mean the most I don't want to say the
Speaker 4: most atypical because you don't see this in every prenup,
Speaker 4: but the fidelity clauses, right, So if there's if someone
Speaker 4: you know cheats, then typically there can be consequences for that.
Speaker 3: I like that one.
Speaker 2: What are examples of like those kinds without giving out
Speaker 2: too much?
Speaker 4: So for example, it could be that you know, one
Speaker 4: of the spouses, they may they may be entitled to
Speaker 4: a reduced amount of support, It could be entitled to
Speaker 4: a reduced payout, things of that nature. Or it could
Speaker 4: be conversely, right, it could be that if, for you know,
Speaker 4: as a hypothetical, if the husband's caught cheating, then he
Speaker 4: might be required to give the the non cheating spouse
Speaker 4: in this case, the wife more money. Right, So it
Speaker 4: depends on really what the parties want to do. I
Speaker 4: mean some of these are pretty these agreements. It's like
Speaker 4: everything else, right, you can you can make it pretty
Speaker 4: scandalous or as aggressive as you want. The vast majority
Speaker 4: people aren't going into it thinking worst case scenario, or
Speaker 4: they wouldn't be doing it in the first place, right,
Speaker 4: Just a matter of kind of protecting certain interest and
Speaker 4: then creating an established paradigm in the event that the
Speaker 4: marriage doesn't work out.
Speaker 3: So can you tell when someone's entering a partnership for
Speaker 3: the wrong reasons?
Speaker 4: So the prenup is probably actually an indication that's a
Speaker 4: healthy marriage, because everyone is looking at like the reality
Speaker 4: of the world, right, I mean, what happened, what exists
Speaker 4: today doesn't mean that that's going to exist tomorrow. Life change,
Speaker 4: people change. But yeah, I mean there are obviously signs,
Speaker 4: like you know, when things are rushed, when there's a
Speaker 4: person who's like rushing something or pressuring someone else, that's
Speaker 4: probably a sign it's not a good relationship. And that's
Speaker 4: not just for marriage, could be business in general. And
Speaker 4: you know, look, you can do things right or you
Speaker 4: could do them quick. It's rare that you can do
Speaker 4: you can do right and quick.
Speaker 1: So I'm from the old school notion of if you
Speaker 1: sign on the dotted line, there are no amendments that
Speaker 1: could be made. And so, you know, we've all heard
Speaker 1: of the iron clad prenup. Does such a thing exist?
Speaker 1: Is any prenup iron class?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: And I mean that exists pretty much for like any
Speaker 4: type of document. The general you know, the general premise
Speaker 4: is that that particular document's fully integrated, meaning that's the
Speaker 4: whole agreement on that particular subject matter. And there's typically
Speaker 4: provisions that say there are no amendments unless they're in
Speaker 4: writing signed by the parties.
Speaker 3: Okay, so when can you like, when can a prenup
Speaker 3: be contested?
Speaker 4: So prenup can be contested on procedural or substantive grounds. So,
Speaker 4: for example, if you give someone a prenup the day
Speaker 4: before you're about to give birth, or the day before
Speaker 4: you're about to get married, things like that or whatever,
Speaker 4: there's a presumption that you're underdress, you don't have enough
Speaker 4: time to digest it, you don't have independent counsel, things
Speaker 4: weren't explained to you.
Speaker 3: What if you get like a twenty care ring and
Speaker 3: you're just in just you know, like duress, and then
Speaker 3: you sign off and the wedding isn't two months, do
Speaker 3: you still well?
Speaker 4: I mean, I mean, it depends. It depends on the
Speaker 4: facts and circumstances. But the reality is.
Speaker 3: That most of the time the prenup kind of stands.
Speaker 4: A lot of the time, if it's done correctly, the
Speaker 4: prenup will be enforceable. And because you know each you
Speaker 4: know the husband and the wife will have independent counsel,
Speaker 4: it'll be explained. In many instances, the prenup will be negotiated. Generally,
Speaker 4: my recommendation is for people to record these things. Right.
Speaker 4: So even now, like in our office, we're using like
Speaker 4: a new software. We're basically really important documents. We have
Speaker 4: a software that basically records people signing it.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: You have to video recording, video recording, you have like
Speaker 4: a KBA analysis, you have a ID credentialing analysis. Because
Speaker 4: there's so much fraud and then people always come back
Speaker 4: if if they sign something later they don't like, oh
Speaker 4: I didn't sign that. So and so could have signed that.
Speaker 4: That's pretty smart, right, and then this way it kind
Speaker 4: of it deters against people taking that position.
Speaker 3: That's actually amazing. Yeah, that's great.
Speaker 1: Stepping out of the family court. So, what is maybe
Speaker 1: the dumbest thing that you've seen people fight about in court?
Speaker 1: And it doesn't necessarily need to be pertaining to divorce,
Speaker 1: but like.
Speaker 3: In general, like, what's the dumbest thing? Because I feel
Speaker 3: like you tell me really good story. Jason has great stories,
Speaker 3: and I love going to dinner with you where I'm like, Jason,
Speaker 3: how is your week? And then you tell me the
Speaker 3: craziest stories.
Speaker 4: Because because the truth of the matter is, like in
Speaker 4: today's world, you don't have to make things up, right,
Speaker 4: they don't have to be scripted. Reality is is pretty entertaining.
Speaker 4: So for sure, I got I mean the craziest story.
Speaker 4: I mean, I've you know, I had a client who
Speaker 4: invested a couple of million dollars in like a dog
Speaker 4: food company, not knowing anything about dog food, and there
Speaker 4: was no dog food company, and you know, I mean
Speaker 4: that was nothing. He basically he bought himself a lawsuit.
Speaker 4: I mean, that's that's what he did.
Speaker 3: And that's kind of like another thing, like you really
Speaker 3: have to make sure that when you're entering a business,
Speaker 3: a marriage, any type of a serious relationship, you definitely
Speaker 3: have to do your research and know who the person
Speaker 3: is that you're going to be sleepy with.
Speaker 4: You know for sure. And that's that's amazing you say it,
Speaker 4: because that's what I tell people all the time that
Speaker 4: they want to do like joint ventures, they want to
Speaker 4: have partners. When you're in a business relationship, it's the
Speaker 4: same as marriage. You're getting into bed because if you
Speaker 4: want to get out, you have to dissolve the entity.
Speaker 4: It's the same thing as dissolving your marriage. It is
Speaker 4: a business divorce, and.
Speaker 3: If they get sued, you potentially can get sued also.
Speaker 4: Well, of course, I mean there's a couple of cases
Speaker 4: now where the lawyers that were representing very bad actors
Speaker 4: are now being sued because they aided or at least
Speaker 4: the allegations are that they aided these.
Speaker 3: Bad actors, right, who are the actors?
Speaker 4: So there was there's a pretty well known case now
Speaker 4: called like Hammock Oaks, where there was like these board
Speaker 4: of directors that were essentially they were using like fraudulent
Speaker 4: accounting practices trying to foreclose their neighbors out buying their
Speaker 4: units on the cheap. They had their you know, six
Speaker 4: cousins on the payroll, and they owned the landscaping company.
Speaker 4: And then basically they were using because they were on
Speaker 4: the board, they had the ability to use association funds
Speaker 4: to pay for lawyers and to pay for defense and
Speaker 4: things like that, and you know, so it can be
Speaker 4: kind of dangerous.
Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, sounds money.
Speaker 3: Okay, So that's the strangest ruling you've ever witnessed a
Speaker 3: judge make in court. Actually, I've seen some crazy.
Speaker 4: Stuff there's all kinds of like crazy rulings. I mean,
Speaker 4: I've had judges that just because they didn't finish reading
Speaker 4: the documents, they'll adopt positions that like the Florida Supreme
Speaker 4: Court has already rejected because they just misread the document
Speaker 4: or they're too Do.
Speaker 3: You ever jump in and you're like, by the way,
Speaker 3: you forgot to read page like twenty or do not?
Speaker 3: You can't do that?
Speaker 4: Yeah, so you can move for reconsideration. There's a mechanism
Speaker 4: to kind of correct these types of.
Speaker 3: Errors like respectfully, right, like, because if you're too aggressive,
Speaker 3: they probably.
Speaker 4: Will like, well, I mean it's like everything else, you
Speaker 4: have to be respectful. Right, There's there's rules. But sometimes
Speaker 4: you know, judges, they're people, right, and sometimes you have
Speaker 4: really great judges, sometimes mediocre, some not great ones.
Speaker 1: Have you ever had an instance where a judge was like,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of picking on you or coming at
Speaker 1: you and you had the diss you right back.
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, and that happens, you know, pretty frequently. Usually
Speaker 4: it's it was the better judges that were doing it, yeah,
Speaker 4: And it was actually I construed it as kind of
Speaker 4: like a sign of respect, right, because they know they're
Speaker 4: trying to kind of get me to articulate my position
Speaker 4: or provide the authority for sure. And that's really what
Speaker 4: it is. It's most judges they respect the lawyers in
Speaker 4: front of them, and that's a healthy relationship.
Speaker 2: Right.
Speaker 4: You want to have credibility. The judges want to be
Speaker 4: you know, have the confidence that you're giving them the
Speaker 4: right case law, the right statutes. And it's healthy and
Speaker 4: I love it. I mean some of the judges. No
Speaker 4: one likes losing, but some of the judges, you know,
Speaker 4: they wouldn't grant like a preliminary motion and it was frustrating.
Speaker 4: But what they were communicating is, look, you there was
Speaker 4: a procedural issue, or you need to emphasize this point
Speaker 4: or take more evidence, and then you come back and
Speaker 4: then ultimately we could win the case. So it's it's
Speaker 4: like everything in life. Sometimes you need to take the
Speaker 4: longer path, but it gets you on to the right conclusion.
Speaker 2: Like that.
Speaker 3: So let me ask you a question. What if you've
Speaker 3: got like a family member that doesn't have a whole
Speaker 3: lot of money, but really believes in themselves and thinks
Speaker 3: they want to have a prenup, they want to get married,
Speaker 3: but they can't financially afford a lawyer. Is there a
Speaker 3: way you can get a prenup without hiring an expensive lawyer?
Speaker 4: Yeah, of course. I mean there's there's all kinds of
Speaker 4: nonprofit you know, options, you know, for people to guide
Speaker 4: you through it. And the truth is, I mean, some
Speaker 4: of these prenups depending on what the terms are.
Speaker 3: So is it basically like a You could just basically
Speaker 3: have a contract and a witness. Is that all you need?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 4: Basically?
Speaker 3: Oh wow, Okay, that's not interesting. I feel like we've
Speaker 3: had friends that keep asking us about the stuff and
Speaker 3: they basically said, Hey, I want to have a prenup
Speaker 3: just because I know that my company is going to
Speaker 3: be valued at a whole lot of money in five years
Speaker 3: from now. I don't want to wait and want to
Speaker 3: get married sooner, but I can't afford to hire, you know,
Speaker 3: a thousand dollar an hour attorney to do this.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but there's lots of great lawyers out there that
Speaker 4: are not a thousand of dollars an hour. And the
Speaker 4: truth of the matter is, it's like everything else in life,
Speaker 4: if it's meaningful for you, anyone with the internet connection,
Speaker 4: you can do enough research, you can find the answer,
Speaker 4: right so it's literally at your fingertips. But a lot
Speaker 4: of people they just for whatever reason, they don't really
Speaker 4: want to spend the time to do the research, which
Speaker 4: is kind of a shame because a lot of these
Speaker 4: things like tools. You know, even ten years ago, fifteen
Speaker 4: years ago, if you wanted to do real legal research,
Speaker 4: you had to go to a law library. Right like
Speaker 4: now you have all these different platforms that the better
Speaker 4: ones typically are paid subscriptions, but they're at your fingertips,
Speaker 4: and there's a lot of free ones and they have
Speaker 4: free trials. So it's again, it's for the If it's
Speaker 4: important enough, people find a way to be educated on
Speaker 4: the story.
Speaker 3: You have access to information that's like really.
Speaker 1: Really nice, Jason. Historically the legal system has favored mothers
Speaker 1: it comes to custody cases. But have you seen the
Speaker 1: tide turning on that in recent years.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I've actually I've seen that a lot. I've seen
Speaker 4: the tide turning a lot. Right now in Florida, the
Speaker 4: law just became effective last year. But basically they the
Speaker 4: legislature passed new laws that created a presumption that both
Speaker 4: parents are entitled to equal time sharing and equal print
Speaker 4: or responsibility. So that's the presumption. That's the starting point, right,
Speaker 4: and then of course the court will weigh a variety
Speaker 4: of factors to determine. Okay, one parent seems to be
Speaker 4: the better decision maker should be given more responsibility, or
Speaker 4: just practically one parent. If someone just stay at home
Speaker 4: parent or has a more flexible work schedule, maybe they
Speaker 4: should get a little bit more than the fifty percent
Speaker 4: time schedule.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's that's cool.
Speaker 3: I feel like more. I feel like in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 3: dads are really really more involved. I feel like my
Speaker 3: dad's generation, I don't. I feel like dads were not
Speaker 3: as involved. Dads were like providers.
Speaker 1: Yea, I feel like, you know, the tide has been
Speaker 1: changing and turning over the over recent years.
Speaker 3: Yeah, women work just as hard as money, and.
Speaker 1: It sounds like there's more of a strike based system,
Speaker 1: Like if you have more negatives against you than you know,
Speaker 1: the court might rule in favor of the other spouse
Speaker 1: or something like that.
Speaker 3: So let me ask you another question, Jason, is a
Speaker 3: marriage considered legal if the man only mirrored because he
Speaker 3: got her pregnant but later found out that child was
Speaker 3: not his? Can you have it annulled if you find
Speaker 3: out that the child is not yours.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think that's basically that does.
Speaker 3: Happen sometimes, Yeah, it does kind of happen.
Speaker 4: Yeah, And there's a lot of It's not even just
Speaker 4: about like the child, right, it could be any kind
Speaker 4: of like material false representation. Really, yeah, because when people
Speaker 4: forget and this comes up. There was a really crazy
Speaker 4: case I had involving like an engagement ring, and then
Speaker 4: it ballooned into you know, someone wanting like implants back.
Speaker 4: I mean it was really no, yeah, it was.
Speaker 3: It was only his boobs back that he paid for.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm not mad at that.
Speaker 4: So, yeah, it ballooned. I was only in the case
Speaker 4: for very.
Speaker 3: Very If they're not going to be together, he should not.
Speaker 3: Another man should enjoy the boots.
Speaker 2: I spent that money. You know he's.
Speaker 3: Enjoy the booths long enough.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2: I don't.
Speaker 4: I don't think even in my last days, I'll probably
Speaker 4: understand like the psychology of what he wanted plants for.
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny.
Speaker 4: Yeah. But but basically marriage and and this comes up
Speaker 4: a lot. There's actually a lot of litigation about engagement rings,
Speaker 4: but marriage it's it's actually a contract, right, I mean,
Speaker 4: you are entering into this binding relationship based on a contract. So,
Speaker 4: just like any other contract, if someone lies to you
Speaker 4: and that lies material and you rely on it to
Speaker 4: your detriment, then there's a basis to resent.
Speaker 3: Feel like a lot of women don't know that.
Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of people don't know that.
Speaker 1: You know, good lawyers can argue anything in the court.
Speaker 4: So well, one of the one of the craziest cases
Speaker 4: kind of along that. I think it was out of
Speaker 4: somewhere out of Asia. But basically there was a man
Speaker 4: married this woman, really attractive woman, and they had a child.
Speaker 4: The child came out and in his words, was the
Speaker 4: ugliest creature he ever saw. So he couldn't understand. He
Speaker 4: was like, I don't I'm not that ugly, you know,
Speaker 4: She's not that ugly, And so he started like doing
Speaker 4: little digging and then he realized that basically she had
Speaker 4: plastic surgery from head to toe and for her entire
Speaker 4: life was getting these procedures done. And so he sought
Speaker 4: to have his marriage and nolled and saw damages from her,
Speaker 4: and he wanted and he won, he won, and he won.
Speaker 4: And what the chord with this particular my recollection is
Speaker 4: what the cord found is that yes, if you can
Speaker 4: do all these things, but if you don't disclose it,
Speaker 4: then you're basically giving the false impression that you will
Speaker 4: probably have beautiful children.
Speaker 2: Wow.
Speaker 3: Wow, ladies, you definitely disclose all your plastic surgery because
Speaker 3: you can have all your marriage.
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I I kind of agree with the judge in that
Speaker 1: case because, like, you know, false, I feel like.
Speaker 2: To say exactly, and I feel.
Speaker 1: Like, you know, I was going to ask about an
Speaker 1: example of like a fraud let's say, like a Bernie
Speaker 1: made off or something like that, and not to necessarily say,
Speaker 1: you know, that exact example, but let's say you marry
Speaker 1: somebody and the you know, the impression is that they've
Speaker 1: got this successful business or you helped build a successful
Speaker 1: business that was all based on fraud. You know, could
Speaker 1: you then ask for an annoment? And so it sounds
Speaker 1: like there's cases out there or examples that maybe you
Speaker 1: can argue in your favor.
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely are.
Speaker 1: Jason, At what point is it too late to get
Speaker 1: an annoment? Is there a statute of limitations on something
Speaker 1: like that?
Speaker 4: I don't know, I mean, like any cause based on state, right, Yeah,
Speaker 4: it would vary by the jurisdiction, and most causes of
Speaker 4: action at some point there's what's called the statute limitation, right,
Speaker 4: So you couldn't You probably couldn't bring that twenty years later, yeah,
Speaker 4: because at that point there would be you know, a
Speaker 4: presumption that it's too late, right, I mean, you waited
Speaker 4: too long. You should have known earlier. You're stuck like
Speaker 4: Chuck in Florida. I think it's stuck ten or twelve years.
Speaker 4: Like most causes of action, after ten or twelve years,
Speaker 4: you can't bring them anymore because wow. Yeah, And the
Speaker 4: courts need to do it, right, I mean they need
Speaker 4: to kind of prioritize things that are like relevant, and
Speaker 4: I mean think about how you're going to find evidence
Speaker 4: from twenty years ago or twenty five years ago. All
Speaker 4: the witnesses are, they move, they're dead, they have dementia,
Speaker 4: they're rehab somewhere years right, you know, so yeah, a.
Speaker 3: Lot of crazy things happen. So wait, do you have
Speaker 3: like extensive knowledge and cases involving fraud and tell us
Speaker 3: some of your clients who have lost millions because I
Speaker 3: know when I've talked to you before, you were like
Speaker 3: really stressed out because you were like, I'm dealing with
Speaker 3: all these different cases, and I think there was like
Speaker 3: a fraud case that you were working on.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, fraud happens all the time, and it
Speaker 4: comes in all shapes and forms, right and unfortunately, I mean,
Speaker 4: and most of the better frauds actually seem to be
Speaker 4: where the people can juice someone else for five million bucks,
Speaker 4: ten million bucks, fifty million bucks. And it's kind of like,
Speaker 4: I don't know, there's like some unspoken ability for people like, oh,
Speaker 4: if you have the balls to ask me for fifty
Speaker 4: million dollars, like you must be legit, right what because
Speaker 4: the people the people asking you for five grand or
Speaker 4: ten grand, Like the first thing that goes off in
Speaker 4: your head is, oh, wait a minute, you know, like
Speaker 4: this doesn't make sense, Like you must not be that
Speaker 4: successful if you need five grand for me, right right.
Speaker 4: But if someone comes to you with like some business idea. Look,
Speaker 4: I'm putting in all this money and I need fifty
Speaker 4: million to get it off the ground, You're like, oh, well,
Speaker 4: this guy must be really asking for fifty million dollars.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I'll bet you.
Speaker 3: It's kind of like it's kind of like that show
Speaker 3: do you remember on Netflix inventing Anna.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 3: I could not believe all the banks and all the
Speaker 3: people that she was able to like convince that she
Speaker 3: was not who she really is, Like, yeah, it's crazy.
Speaker 2: People are very persuasive.
Speaker 1: The actor strike is happening as we speak, and a
Speaker 1: big issue of contention is artificial intelligence. But it's obviously
Speaker 1: not just a Hollywood issue. And so tell us why
Speaker 1: the average American should be at least concerned or researching.
Speaker 4: Yes, so AI. It's like every other piece of tech, right,
Speaker 4: it could be something that can be very helpful, and
Speaker 4: it can be something it's very very dangerous. So it's
Speaker 4: kind of like that new software that was telling you about,
Speaker 4: you know, for example, like when we were doing closings
Speaker 4: or material transactions. Historically, what we've always done is we
Speaker 4: get notarized wire instructions. We followed with the phone calls.
Speaker 4: We want to get as much info as possible, send
Speaker 4: an ID. But now if somebody has your voice, right,
Speaker 4: so for example, you guys are public people, you've spoken
Speaker 4: on different speaking events or online, there's now a technology
Speaker 4: where somebody can take enough samples of your voice insane,
Speaker 4: and then they can call if they get the right
Speaker 4: number and get the right info. They could call your
Speaker 4: bank and say, hey, can you send a wire to
Speaker 4: blah blah blah. Yeah, it'll and it'll sound like you.
Speaker 4: And they can spoof your phone number.
Speaker 3: You need a key phrase like A like so these
Speaker 3: so like.
Speaker 4: This AI, like these deep fakes, like the way that
Speaker 4: they're programmed and the way they can be deployed can
Speaker 4: be really dangerous. But AI has been around for it
Speaker 4: wasn't always called like AI, but basically you have these
Speaker 4: when you have enough data sets, you can have the
Speaker 4: software to run algorithms that will start narrowing it down
Speaker 4: and using it and producing things. So we've been using
Speaker 4: it for you know a number of years, not ready.
Speaker 1: I've seen you know, different applications popping up almost like
Speaker 1: every day now.
Speaker 2: And you know, I saw like.
Speaker 1: AI added to Excel and you can like type in
Speaker 1: what the AI is supposed to do or formulas and
Speaker 1: it just auto populates it. Or like Photoshop, you can
Speaker 1: type in, oh, you could upload a picture and then
Speaker 1: type in change the background to a scenic background in
Speaker 1: Bali and it just automatically like gives you options for that.
Speaker 1: And so obviously those are some of the lower hanging
Speaker 1: fruits of AI. But I can only imagine how you
Speaker 1: know it can impact the law world.
Speaker 3: Well, I think it also impacts school, Like think about
Speaker 3: it when you went to law school or like when
Speaker 3: I was studying political science, I feel like it was
Speaker 3: like hard to write all these forty page papers, but
Speaker 3: now you can have someone else write it for you,
Speaker 3: Like it's crazy.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean then again, I mean there was a
Speaker 4: recent incident where I think it was from New York.
Speaker 4: There was a lawyer that had used AI application to
Speaker 4: draft motion with the court and then I guess they
Speaker 4: didn't prove it and they didn't vet the authorities that
Speaker 4: were cited. They filed it with the court and not
Speaker 4: only was it wrong, like the authorities they cited wrong
Speaker 4: fake oh wow what and yeah, and the lawyer got
Speaker 4: sanctioned and it was kind of like.
Speaker 3: A lazy ass lawyer.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: Well there's unfortunately there's a lot of those. But basically
Speaker 4: this software because and you got to look at really
Speaker 4: going back to kind of like the concern point, you
Speaker 4: got to understand like where this came from, right, this
Speaker 4: came from like Google, from Facebook, from Instagram, from Twitter,
Speaker 4: and it just all these applications which have been you know, free.
Speaker 4: They pick up all these data points on you, so
Speaker 4: they understand the terminology, what your search terms are, what
Speaker 4: you're looking at, what you're saving, what you're downloading, and
Speaker 4: then they use all that data and now they can
Speaker 4: predict what people do. And so yeah, it's it's it's
Speaker 4: pretty crazy. So I mean they you could you could
Speaker 4: type in supposedly, uh, you know, write me a letter
Speaker 4: on this topic, and I need it to be fifty
Speaker 4: pages long, and it'll bang it out and you can
Speaker 4: say I want it to be aggressive. I want it
Speaker 4: to be I wanted to be soft. I want it
Speaker 4: to be right and and and it has the capability
Speaker 4: because it's a mass, you know, trillions and trillions of data.
Speaker 2: Points you have used.
Speaker 3: No, I kind of feel like, well, I don't know
Speaker 3: it's Instagram a I because I feel like if you
Speaker 3: can alter photo, it's like but if you can alter
Speaker 3: your photos, is that not like yeah, different, It's.
Speaker 1: More like if you typed into a platform like make
Speaker 1: me skinnier or brighten my hair color or no, like.
Speaker 2: No, I know you haven't, but I do feel.
Speaker 3: I do feel like this is I do feel like
Speaker 3: I do feel like this this whole process has been
Speaker 3: going on for the last like what like ten eight years,
Speaker 3: ten years something like that, because think about it, first,
Speaker 3: we had like all these different social media platforms where
Speaker 3: you're able to alter how you look, alter how you sound.
Speaker 3: You can take a photo and like get some kind
Speaker 3: of app where it shows that you're on the beach
Speaker 3: and you can literally be in prison all this stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah on the zoom background.
Speaker 3: I'm just saying, everything in today's world is so hocus pocused.
Speaker 3: None of this stuff's real. It's crazy because think about it.
Speaker 3: Back when we were kids, you used to have to
Speaker 3: handwrite your paper, You used to really have to know math.
Speaker 3: Like now everything is everything is so easy that it's like,
Speaker 3: how are kids going to be challenged? They're not, how
Speaker 3: are they going to be challenged?
Speaker 4: Well, I mean it's kind of the byproduct of like
Speaker 4: American society becoming amassing the wealth that they have. Right,
Speaker 4: everything is convenient, easy, and we have these types of tools,
Speaker 4: and then people will kind of use it for the
Speaker 4: wrong way. Personally, when I have meetings with people, I
Speaker 4: want to meet in person, right if I can, you know,
Speaker 4: if I can even talk to someone not necessarily FaceTime,
Speaker 4: but like zoom. I prefer that over the phone. There's
Speaker 4: a different interaction, and that's kind of the interaction I miss,
Speaker 4: like even now with courts, and it's only in rare
Speaker 4: circumstances you actually go to court. But for me, that's
Speaker 4: like important. You can judge credibility, you can see how's
Speaker 4: the other person reacting, and that's kind of what we're
Speaker 4: losing there. I mean, what was the movie with Bruce Willis.
Speaker 4: It was called like Surrogates or something where basically he
Speaker 4: just sat in the house like all day and he
Speaker 4: had this like avatar running around doing all this stuff.
Speaker 4: I mean, but with the technology that exists today, I mean,
Speaker 4: you could you could basically.
Speaker 2: Do that if you want to do that's for sure.
Speaker 3: Think about this. It's also like in dating, like all
Speaker 3: these dating apps, I feel like people swipe swipe because
Speaker 3: you're looking at someone's photo and someone's bio that like
Speaker 3: their friend had had them right up. Yeah, but if
Speaker 3: you spent if you literally spent ten minutes on a.
Speaker 1: Dating site, would be like find me like an exact statistics,
Speaker 1: So you'd be like looking for a five foot five
Speaker 1: women with blonde hair and brown eyes. I'm just saying
Speaker 1: with AI is like you can program the algorithm to
Speaker 1: do what you want versus just seeing a generic algorithm.
Speaker 3: No, of course I get what you're saying.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so Jason, is there something that people can
Speaker 1: do now to protect themselves from like the harms of AI?
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, just you just got to verify, right,
Speaker 4: follow up? Talk to people on the phone, if you
Speaker 4: can see them in person is better. I mean there's
Speaker 4: because again, I mean, you just hear a voice on
Speaker 4: the end of the phone. You don't really know, right
Speaker 4: if you get a you know, one of the biggest
Speaker 4: scams a lot of people get is they get something
Speaker 4: that will pop up on their computers saying, oh, you
Speaker 4: need your computer's been hacked. We can solve it for you.
Speaker 4: Call this number and then take your credit card time
Speaker 4: and people fall for that. People do you know, or
Speaker 4: they'll get a phone call. They'll say, this is really common,
Speaker 4: especially for my foreign clients. They'll get these phone calls
Speaker 4: from people saying that they work for the US government
Speaker 4: from the IRS and basically, if you don't send X
Speaker 4: number of dollars through like a money order by tomorrow,
Speaker 4: they're going to be arrested and without fail. I mean
Speaker 4: I can tell you ninety percent of my foreign clients
Speaker 4: they get these types of messages, they get these phone
Speaker 4: calls and they call me frantic. I don't understand there's
Speaker 4: nothing that was owed everything, the count and handles everything,
Speaker 4: and I'm like, no, that's not how the IRS operates. Right,
Speaker 4: they send you a letter, they follow up, and so
Speaker 4: one of the ways you could do if you get
Speaker 4: a phone call from a bank, from an agency, anything
Speaker 4: like that, or any even a phone number from someone
Speaker 4: you're doing a deal with, right it could be a
Speaker 4: real estate broke or a lawyer accountant. If you don't
Speaker 4: recognize the number, you don't know the name, call them back.
Speaker 4: Call the number that you're familiar with. That's a great
Speaker 4: idea and confirm. And that's one of the ways that
Speaker 4: you can sure that like these are real things, because
Speaker 4: you're going to see these types of scam going to
Speaker 4: be all over the place.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm so paranoid. I don't even trust my grandmother. Like,
Speaker 3: if my grandmother is calling me asking me for personal
Speaker 3: numbers and stuff, I'm like, I'll call you right back.
Speaker 1: Like it's funny because I changed my number a couple
Speaker 1: of months back, and it's the first time I changed
Speaker 1: my number and like, I don't know a long time,
Speaker 1: and I just felt like as I was texting people, Hey,
Speaker 1: it's Mark because I got a new number, then they
Speaker 1: in turn, we're calling other people that we knew mutually
Speaker 1: just to verify, like it's just real, because you know,
Speaker 1: it's like I don't know, it's just funny.
Speaker 2: That's what made me. It made me think of that
Speaker 2: a little bit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean you definitely have to like do your
Speaker 3: research and find.
Speaker 4: You're talking about why did you change your number? Someone
Speaker 4: put your number in like Craigslist.
Speaker 1: Not that I know, I wouldn't I wouldn't doubt it,
Speaker 1: but not just a new chapter, you know, turning the.
Speaker 3: New changing my numbers. Yeah, I feel like it's good.
Speaker 3: It's good to do a lot.
Speaker 2: I had to cut some people off, you know, you know,
Speaker 2: it's good for the good to start exactly.
Speaker 3: But I will say that, like, I feel like what
Speaker 3: you do is like super fascinating for me. I love
Speaker 3: hearing your stories.
Speaker 4: No, no, I love and there's no there's no two
Speaker 4: days that are alike. Every day there's something new, and
Speaker 4: it's it's generally fun. And I mean I personally couldn't
Speaker 4: imagine doing anything else. And again, as the world evolves,
Speaker 4: like the practice of law evolves, there's new problems, new solutions.
Speaker 1: What are you seeing most frequently these days in terms
Speaker 1: of the cases that you take the court.
Speaker 4: I mean just a lot. So I mean so again,
Speaker 4: like right now, we're still at least especially in South floor,
Speaker 4: I should say, we're still like in an economic boom.
Speaker 4: Right people are still making but money, businesses are good,
Speaker 4: real estate values are up. What I suspect will happen
Speaker 4: is that when the economy cycles down and businesses don't
Speaker 4: survive or you know, business ventures don't they're no longer viable,
Speaker 4: that's when people will fight. Right When, when people are
Speaker 4: making money, everything's good, no one will look at the contracts,
Speaker 4: No one cares what the contracts say. When things go
Speaker 4: bad and people start losing money, that's when the fighting
Speaker 4: typically happens. So you know, the lesson kind of is,
Speaker 4: you know, if you're going to sign something, it's make
Speaker 4: sure you're comfortable with what you're signing, and I generally
Speaker 4: look at it. Okay, worst case scenario, right, armageddon happens.
Speaker 4: Worst case scenario if the agreement, if you can survive
Speaker 4: with whatever the outcome is under the agreement, then that's
Speaker 4: a good investment. If you can't, don't do it. And
Speaker 4: if you don't like the agreement, you're better off having
Speaker 4: no agreement than a bad agreement.
Speaker 2: That's true.
Speaker 3: That's true. Okay, So before we let you go, what's
Speaker 3: one piece of legal advice that you'd like to leave
Speaker 3: our listeners with.
Speaker 4: If I can only give one, it's just if you
Speaker 4: have nothing intelligent to say, or you can't be honest
Speaker 4: about somebody, say nothing. You know, we have that amendment
Speaker 4: bill wrights people never exercise it.
Speaker 3: And everybody's doing that because there's times when I do
Speaker 3: interviews and I feel pressured to say something like I
Speaker 3: did yesterday when I was doing my interview, and I
Speaker 3: feel like I need to be in a place where
Speaker 3: I don't have to like answer questions. Sometimes I could
Speaker 3: just be like I do I'm not comfortable answering that,
Speaker 3: but I just feel like sometimes I don't. I'm like
Speaker 3: a little kid sometimes I need to.
Speaker 1: I think you like to be the life of the
Speaker 1: party sometimes and that sometimes sways you into making decisions
Speaker 1: you normally wouin.
Speaker 4: So I mean it's okay to say no, right, And
Speaker 4: I think that's what I think that comes from saying
Speaker 4: I agree with that. Yeah, you know, so don't don't
Speaker 4: be shy about it. And you know, again, I mean,
Speaker 4: I know a lot of people get in a lot
Speaker 4: of trouble because they couldn't keep their mouth shut.
Speaker 3: I hear you, that's okay. So the power is saying no,
Speaker 3: I'm going to start taking that. Guys to two of
Speaker 3: my favorite guys to my left and to my right.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I love that.
Speaker 3: Well, you guys, we had an amazing time. Thank you
Speaker 3: so much Jason with us, and I hope today was insightful.
Speaker 3: I know a lot of people are going through hard times, divorces, you.
Speaker 2: Have relationshships, Like any conversation with Jason is.
Speaker 3: Always it's always fun. Yeah, it's always fun. And I think,
Speaker 3: like I think what I got from today was basically like,
Speaker 3: do your research.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh, the diligence is super important. And again, I
Speaker 4: mean paper is easy, right, anyone with a computer can
Speaker 4: put it, but you gotta you have to verify it
Speaker 4: to do your diligence. If you're gonna make a material
Speaker 4: investment or you know, a partnership with someone, do your background,
Speaker 4: know who you're getting into.
Speaker 1: And I like what Jason said about, you know, trying
Speaker 1: to take meetings in person looking for people like my eyes,
Speaker 1: you can kind of get a good feel. I feel
Speaker 1: like people have gone away from that, especially through COVID.
Speaker 1: Everything's become virtual. But whenever you get the chance, look
Speaker 1: somebody and I you can kind of tell what they're about.
Speaker 3: You know, you know what. It also reminds me of
Speaker 3: like I feel like my gut instincts are so good.
Speaker 2: You do have it.
Speaker 3: I feel like and if whenever I don't, I don't
Speaker 3: listen to it, I always feel like later on I'm
Speaker 3: like I knew it, Like Larsa, you knew it. Why
Speaker 3: did you listen to yourself? Because I do feel like
Speaker 3: when you're sitting across from someone I've been in bad deals,
Speaker 3: Like we had a financial guy that literally stole twenty
Speaker 3: million dollars from us and I never liked him, and
Speaker 3: I remember sitting across from him and I knew he
Speaker 3: was not a good.
Speaker 1: I feel like, even on a relationship level, like you're
Speaker 1: a good judge of character in terms of like when
Speaker 1: your friends try to introduce you to their.
Speaker 2: Way, friends like that you've got good instincts in terms.
Speaker 3: I am but I am. But you know what, I
Speaker 3: feel like, it's because like I've been screwed a lot,
Speaker 3: you know. I think it comes from a place that
Speaker 3: I feel like it comes from a place of like,
Speaker 3: you know, like, oh, I should have listened to what
Speaker 3: I was thinking and feeling on the inside.
Speaker 4: You know.
Speaker 3: There's so many people that I've met that I've been
Speaker 3: like accountants, business people all the time where they dress
Speaker 3: really well, they speak, they speak over you, they're speaking
Speaker 3: way smarter than you over your head, and you want
Speaker 3: to believe everything they say, but like there's something inside
Speaker 3: of you that's telling you that you shouldn't trust this person.
Speaker 3: They're not looking after your best interests, you know. And
Speaker 3: so I feel like a lot of times for me,
Speaker 3: like now it's finally like I'm at a place where
Speaker 3: I can like speak up as far as like I
Speaker 3: don't trust this person, you know, I feel like they
Speaker 3: don't give me a good unders.
Speaker 4: Face to face. I mean, yeah, it'll make the good
Speaker 4: relationships better, strengthen those, and then the ones that are
Speaker 4: kind of shaky people, they won't have time because it's
Speaker 4: a lot harder. It's easier for someone to send an
Speaker 4: email and make up the ass or even say it
Speaker 4: on the phone. It's different when you're shitting, you know,
Speaker 4: a couple of inches or foot away from someone, they
Speaker 4: look you in the You call somebody a liar, of course.
Speaker 3: I would, yeah, J to be like you're lying, Yeah, of.
Speaker 4: Course I would.
Speaker 2: I think you're good at that too. Bag call liars
Speaker 2: out too.
Speaker 3: I do call liars out, but at the same time,
Speaker 3: like I don't know how to use my voice for no.
Speaker 3: When I do my interviews, you know, it's like, now
Speaker 3: you know what I think it is. I think I'm
Speaker 3: one of those people that like I was a good student,
Speaker 3: and I like to listen to like teachers.
Speaker 1: You'd like to go above and beyond me. You want
Speaker 1: to get an A plus and everything that.
Speaker 2: That's probably that's not a bad thing, that's not a
Speaker 2: bad thing.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well you guys. We have the best time with
Speaker 3: you guys. Thank you and follow.
Speaker 1: Us a separation Underscore Anxiety Underscore podcast and tune in
Speaker 1: next week.
Speaker 3: Bye guys, Bye Chasing