WEBVTT - Methane Hunters Race to Change Course of Global Warming 0:00:01.800 --> 0:00:04.440 This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm 0:00:04.480 --> 0:00:07.280 Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing 0:00:07.320 --> 0:00:09.840 you the latest news from the world to business and finance, 0:00:09.840 --> 0:00:13.640 plus technology, politics, economics, all partnising the power of Business 0:00:13.680 --> 0:00:17.160 Week reporters and editors, not to mention our journalists and 0:00:17.160 --> 0:00:20.000 analyst in more than one twenty countries. You can download 0:00:20.000 --> 0:00:23.239 Bloomberg Business Week and iTunes, SoundCloud, or Bloomberg dot Com. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:25.200 You can also listen to our radio show at two 0:00:25.200 --> 0:00:27.880 pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on 0:00:27.920 --> 0:00:32.839 YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News. Well, let's not get get 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.840 to Dr Ian Lustbader. He joins us each and every 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.400 Friday right here on Bloomberg Business Week. He's clinical professor 0:00:38.479 --> 0:00:41.120 of medicine at n y U Langnes Medical Center, joining 0:00:41.200 --> 0:00:44.839 us on the phone today. Uh, Dr LUs Better, always 0:00:44.840 --> 0:00:47.000 great to be able to check in with you. I 0:00:47.040 --> 0:00:50.080 want to start by hitting on boosters because this is 0:00:50.200 --> 0:00:51.720 this is the story of the day when it comes 0:00:51.760 --> 0:00:55.680 to COVID. Uh are you already starting to plan for 0:00:55.760 --> 0:00:58.040 your booster shot? You're a doctor at at n y U. 0:00:58.120 --> 0:01:00.240 You were among the first to be able to get 0:01:00.000 --> 0:01:04.160 a COVID vaccine. Are you going to get your boosters in? Yes, 0:01:04.319 --> 0:01:08.720 I'm not in the absolute first group of Happy Priday, 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:10.960 by the way, Tim and Carroll's only a lot of 0:01:11.040 --> 0:01:15.559 challenges out there at many levels, Delta certainly one of them. Yes, 0:01:15.640 --> 0:01:19.440 I think healthcare professionals, anyone who got vaccinated eight months 0:01:19.440 --> 0:01:21.840 ago will be on the list, not first on the list, 0:01:21.880 --> 0:01:25.520 first on the list now. And we're already writing orders 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:29.240 for the booster shots which will begin next week for 0:01:29.319 --> 0:01:33.600 solid organ transplants. And you know, suppressed patients, uh, people 0:01:33.640 --> 0:01:37.000 on chemotherapy, etcetera, etcetera. And there are a number of 0:01:37.000 --> 0:01:42.160 patients who feel that they are you know, compromised HIV 0:01:42.319 --> 0:01:46.600 patients or diabetes or patients or the other conditions. We're 0:01:46.600 --> 0:01:50.120 just gonna have to see who, um, you know, the 0:01:50.240 --> 0:01:54.120 distribution of that. But September twentieth at least appears to 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:58.760 be the next traunch of people who would get vaccinated, 0:01:58.800 --> 0:02:02.639 assuming all goes smoothly, uh, And those would be people 0:02:03.000 --> 0:02:06.800 who are eight months out, like healthcare providers. And there's 0:02:06.840 --> 0:02:09.079 definitely a lot of trouble, a lot of anxiety with 0:02:09.160 --> 0:02:13.760 those doctors and colleagues some of whom have gotten breakthrough 0:02:13.960 --> 0:02:18.120 delta in sections, and and people who are concerned about 0:02:18.120 --> 0:02:22.880 their immunity that is beginning to drop. No, So Dr 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.359 LUs bader Um first all, so good to have you 0:02:25.400 --> 0:02:28.520 back with us. And in terms of people who are 0:02:28.560 --> 0:02:31.000 immune compromised, do they have to get a note or 0:02:31.040 --> 0:02:33.120 something from the doctor in order to get to be 0:02:33.280 --> 0:02:34.720 at the top of the list, at the front of 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.560 the line. Here when it comes to a booster, at 0:02:37.600 --> 0:02:39.680 this point we have to place an order for that 0:02:39.760 --> 0:02:44.800 booster or so they do. They have to request it 0:02:44.880 --> 0:02:47.919 and meet certain criteria. At this point, I think by 0:02:47.960 --> 0:02:50.960 September twentieth that will be you know, again, depending on 0:02:50.960 --> 0:02:55.520 how it all goes another trunche of people. Now there 0:02:55.560 --> 0:02:58.959 are people who do go to pharmacies and and are 0:02:59.560 --> 0:03:04.359 able to get another booster shot. It's certainly not not 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:08.760 protocol uh, and there's probably no real need for that. 0:03:08.800 --> 0:03:12.560 You know, the immunity doesn't drop off a cliff, it's 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.359 just a slow gradual decline. My my analogy is that 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:20.360 your your vaccine is like a sponge and delta COVID 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:23.080 is like a puddle, and you get splashed with this 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.359 puddle and the bigger your sponge is, the more likely 0:03:26.400 --> 0:03:28.320 you're going to be able to sop up all of 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:32.960 that virus. Over time, your sponge shrinks a bit, And 0:03:33.000 --> 0:03:36.560 what the boosters really do is make the sponge big again, 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.400 so that when you are exposed to DELTA or COVID 0:03:40.520 --> 0:03:43.839 so far variants, it absorbs it so your body does 0:03:43.880 --> 0:03:47.280 not have to fight off as big an infection, so 0:03:47.440 --> 0:03:51.200 that sponge doesn't just disappear, at least in most patients. 0:03:51.240 --> 0:03:55.839 So that's the rationale for why a booster is indicated 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.520 at this time. One thing that I've been struggling with 0:03:58.640 --> 0:04:00.960 is just thinking about the that we've had here in 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:05.320 the United States getting vaccine. Wary people going to get vaccinated, 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.200 and even those folks who were hesitant who did get vaccinated, 0:04:09.240 --> 0:04:11.160 are they going to end up getting a third shot? 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:13.320 And to what extent does that change the way that 0:04:13.400 --> 0:04:16.520 the pandemic is spreading Because we have these metrics right unvaccinated, 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.440 vaccinated with one shot, vaccinated with two shots, And I 0:04:19.440 --> 0:04:21.520 wonder how many of those folks who are vaccinated with 0:04:21.520 --> 0:04:23.760 two shots are actually going to go out and get 0:04:23.800 --> 0:04:28.760 that booster shot. If the CDC indeed recommends it, You're 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:31.560 you're absolutely right. I think, you know, it's a very 0:04:31.640 --> 0:04:34.960 dynamic process. I think all we can do is educate people. 0:04:34.960 --> 0:04:37.960 I think there is still some vaccine fear, although as 0:04:38.640 --> 0:04:43.680 Delta rampages through unvaccinated people and doctors and hospitals are overwhelmed, 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:46.240 and people see that on the news, they begin to realize, say, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:49.159 wait a minute, even though I may be young and healthy, 0:04:49.240 --> 0:04:52.480 I could get Delta. And they certainly can and probably 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:56.400 will at the rate we're going. Um, So I think, um, 0:04:56.520 --> 0:04:59.840 we will see more of those eighties people who are 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:04.080 eligible getting vaccines. But at the end of the day, UM, 0:05:04.120 --> 0:05:07.040 you can only protect people who are willing to get protected, 0:05:07.080 --> 0:05:10.560 and I think for frontline healthcare workers as one example, 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:14.320 or you know, compromise people if they're willing to take 0:05:14.320 --> 0:05:16.640 a booster. I think that's reasonable to do. We've certainly 0:05:16.640 --> 0:05:20.239 seen in Israel and other countries that certainly the fiser 0:05:20.279 --> 0:05:23.680 shot that protection does begin to diminish, and people are 0:05:23.720 --> 0:05:27.720 hospitalized who are vaccinated, and some people say, well, why 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:30.320 should I get a vaccine. You know, if it begins 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.200 to lose efficacy but it does provide protection, then that 0:05:33.320 --> 0:05:36.640 does really reduced severe disease, and so help me out 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.840 some really basic questions. If I got the Fiser vaccine initially, 0:05:40.040 --> 0:05:42.359 that's the booster. I have to get same thing for 0:05:42.480 --> 0:05:46.240 maderna or can you mix and match? So at this point, yes, 0:05:46.320 --> 0:05:48.760 you're supposed to get the same shot. We don't really 0:05:48.800 --> 0:05:51.679 have a lot of data and mixing and matching. Certainly 0:05:51.680 --> 0:05:53.760 with J and J, there's a lot of strong data 0:05:53.800 --> 0:05:56.800 that taking the MR and a vaccine after that really 0:05:56.839 --> 0:06:00.320 gives you a boost, and so I think likely any 0:06:00.400 --> 0:06:03.239 vaccine would provide a significant boost. But at this point 0:06:03.279 --> 0:06:06.360 the consensus is to give the same vaccine for the 0:06:06.440 --> 0:06:09.160 third if you've done the MR nas can I ask 0:06:09.200 --> 0:06:15.800 you also for those individuals that ultimately get hospitalized UM 0:06:15.920 --> 0:06:19.480 and aren't vaccinated, are we better in terms of new 0:06:19.520 --> 0:06:21.560 treatments for dealing with them? What are the treatments that 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:25.760 everybody's getting in the hospital unvaccinated but down with COVID. Yeah, 0:06:25.800 --> 0:06:28.040 thank you for asking that. I mean, I think we 0:06:28.120 --> 0:06:32.040 really should have made a better national effort for treatment. 0:06:32.080 --> 0:06:35.960 We've been very focused and appropriately so an early diagnosis 0:06:36.000 --> 0:06:40.200 and vaccination, but the problem is that's not ad and 0:06:40.279 --> 0:06:43.520 so we are still giving people steroids and blood centers 0:06:43.560 --> 0:06:48.400 and monoclonal antibodies, which do seem to help, But we 0:06:48.480 --> 0:06:52.080 really should have made a better effort on anti virals 0:06:52.120 --> 0:06:55.560 and other medications possible off the shelf, medications that there's 0:06:55.600 --> 0:06:59.080 some studies on, and really been aggressive in doing those 0:06:59.080 --> 0:07:01.800 studies so that we can or for treatment to those 0:07:01.920 --> 0:07:04.960 ninety million people who are not yet vaccinated and who 0:07:05.120 --> 0:07:09.400 likely will get delta. Dr los Bader. Earlier this week 0:07:09.400 --> 0:07:13.560 we spoke to Dr William Haseltine. He's written many books, 0:07:13.880 --> 0:07:18.200 U started companies UM and he his latest book is 0:07:18.200 --> 0:07:21.760 called c v PTSD COVID related post traumatic stress Disorder. 0:07:22.320 --> 0:07:24.840 And I'm wondering what you're seeing in the medical community 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:27.280 right now, what you're seeing among patients who aren't necessarily 0:07:27.480 --> 0:07:31.120 haven't necessarily gotten COVID or have recovered from COVID, but 0:07:31.520 --> 0:07:35.320 have some sort of PTSD related to the pandemic that 0:07:35.360 --> 0:07:39.760 we've been going through since March. Him, You're completely right. 0:07:39.920 --> 0:07:43.400 I think we are underestimating the troum. The two Americans 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:49.360 UM they were anxious and feeling vulnerable about DELTA and COVID, 0:07:49.400 --> 0:07:54.120 initially confused about vaccinations, are hesitant. I think what's going 0:07:54.160 --> 0:07:57.400 on geo politically is I'm seeing patients over the last 0:07:57.400 --> 0:08:01.520 few days that are very anxious and said about global politics. 0:08:01.520 --> 0:08:06.360 So I think we're seeing a lot of PTSD coming together, 0:08:07.160 --> 0:08:10.320 uh and rattling a lot of America, and certainly the 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.640 doctors who were on the front lines in the i 0:08:13.760 --> 0:08:16.760 c u S treating patients, watching them die because of 0:08:16.920 --> 0:08:20.640 poor you know, treatment availability at the time, and now 0:08:20.760 --> 0:08:24.960 seeing a surge of more cases. Um, everyone is really traumatized, 0:08:25.040 --> 0:08:28.520 even our front line, you know, doctors and first responders 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:31.640 who you think of as calm no matter what. I 0:08:31.680 --> 0:08:35.920 think everyone is having a toll taken on them and 0:08:35.960 --> 0:08:38.920 I think we need to acknowledge that. And uh, you know, 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.800 people are for guidance and there are some conflicting data 0:08:41.800 --> 0:08:45.040 and mixed messages which I think stressed people out as well. Yeah, 0:08:45.120 --> 0:08:49.920 that's all. We definitely see it a lot within our community. Hey, Ian, 0:08:49.960 --> 0:08:51.800 thank you so much. Dr Ian LUs Bet, our clinical 0:08:51.840 --> 0:08:53.880 professor of Medicine at n y U Land going on 0:08:53.920 --> 0:08:56.800 the phone in New York. Right now, cases are topping 0:08:56.800 --> 0:09:01.480 two million globally, depths passing four point war million. You're 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:03.880 listening to Bloomberg Business Week, Carol Master, Tim Stanevik in 0:09:03.920 --> 0:09:06.720 our Interactive Broker Studio. Gotta say when I saw this 0:09:06.720 --> 0:09:08.960 this morning, I tweeted the story out with the line, 0:09:09.200 --> 0:09:12.920 now what it is Today's Bloomberg Big Take. It's a 0:09:12.960 --> 0:09:15.200 most round on the Bloomberg terminal. It is uh in 0:09:15.280 --> 0:09:18.360 Bloomberg Business Week. It's about the methane hunters racing to 0:09:18.440 --> 0:09:21.080 change the course tim of global warming. We'll joining us 0:09:21.120 --> 0:09:23.679 now is Joel Weber, editor for Bloomberg Business Week. He's 0:09:23.720 --> 0:09:26.280 on the remote from Massachusetts. Also in the studio with us, 0:09:26.440 --> 0:09:31.440 Zach Myder, Projects, an investigations reporter for Bloomberg News. Joel 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.360 frackers in America's largest oil field. They are letting massive 0:09:34.360 --> 0:09:37.840 amounts of natural gas spill into the atmosphere. But the 0:09:37.960 --> 0:09:41.520 methane hunters are finding where that is leaking and helping 0:09:41.640 --> 0:09:46.840 plug the potent greenhound greenhouse gas. Yeah. So to Carol's point, 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.120 now what, but there there's a little bit of a 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.960 hopeful quality to this story, um, which is that you know, 0:09:54.040 --> 0:09:59.760 methane is terrible stuff, and it is leaking at unfortunate rates, 0:10:00.160 --> 0:10:02.840 but we now have technology that allows us to actually 0:10:02.880 --> 0:10:06.320 see where the weeks are and we can actually you know, 0:10:06.559 --> 0:10:09.800 handle it, handle it and fix it. And you know, 0:10:09.880 --> 0:10:13.400 if we have the willpower for this and not so long, 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:18.200 we can actually eliminate a lot of this problem. But 0:10:18.280 --> 0:10:21.000 you know, there's some keywords in there, UM that you 0:10:21.000 --> 0:10:23.920 know are are going to be sources of tension in 0:10:23.960 --> 0:10:26.199 the years to come. UM. But all this reporting goes 0:10:26.240 --> 0:10:29.960 back to Zach and in his interest in and methane. So, 0:10:29.960 --> 0:10:32.880 so Zach walk us through UM how you how you 0:10:32.920 --> 0:10:34.600 kind of found out about this area of coverage and 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.680 then how you went about telling the story. Yeah. Sure, 0:10:37.720 --> 0:10:41.240 I mean what was special to me about UM that 0:10:41.640 --> 0:10:44.640 this question about methane emissions is that it's really one 0:10:44.679 --> 0:10:48.040 of the UM big opportunities that the world has to 0:10:48.280 --> 0:10:52.000 make a difference in the pace of climate change quickly, 0:10:52.440 --> 0:10:55.720 because methane is only in the air for about ten 0:10:55.800 --> 0:10:58.880 years UM. And so if you were to do something 0:10:58.920 --> 0:11:01.360 to radically reduce how much we're putting in the air 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:05.760 within a generation, you'd actually have a tangible effect on 0:11:05.800 --> 0:11:08.480 the pace of global warming. Something like a third of 0:11:08.720 --> 0:11:11.240 the warming we anticipate over the next couple of decades 0:11:11.520 --> 0:11:15.040 could actually be eliminated just by dealing with the methane problem. Well, 0:11:15.040 --> 0:11:17.160 so we always talking about carbon emission, so give me 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:20.040 some context, um, Zach, in terms of methane, how much 0:11:20.080 --> 0:11:22.280 are we putting out there? Because as you say, ten years, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:24.000 that to me, I can get my head around that 0:11:24.040 --> 0:11:26.760 and maybe how we could get ahead of it. Give 0:11:26.760 --> 0:11:29.319 me some perspective that how much we're putting out right now? Sure, 0:11:29.440 --> 0:11:34.720 So carbon is the biggest cause of human cause global warming. Um, 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:37.680 it's the biggest chunk. But methane is the second biggest chunk, 0:11:37.720 --> 0:11:40.640 and it's responsible for maybe a quarter of what's happened 0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.880 so far. But so it's really significant. And um, it 0:11:43.920 --> 0:11:46.440 comes from a lot of things. It's it's not like 0:11:46.800 --> 0:11:48.920 carbon comes from burning stuff, which we mostly do on 0:11:49.000 --> 0:11:52.480 purpose because it's useful to generate power or whatever. A 0:11:52.480 --> 0:11:54.760 lot of methane is like just kind of a byproduct. 0:11:55.320 --> 0:11:58.400 Cows burp it out, it comes from landfills. There's all 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.080 these ways that it gets in the atmosphere. And one 0:12:00.120 --> 0:12:02.560 of the biggest is oil and gas. We've talked about 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:04.719 with food waste, that all of the food waste and 0:12:04.760 --> 0:12:07.520 garbage dumps of that creating methane. So, Zach, what what 0:12:07.600 --> 0:12:10.200 is the economic cost not just not for the climate change, 0:12:10.200 --> 0:12:13.640 but the economic incentive for companies to take control of this. 0:12:13.960 --> 0:12:17.600 You have companies like VP actually blogging about this, that's right. 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.560 So that's another exciting opportunity about methane is that um 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.480 in the oil and gas industry, the methane comes from 0:12:24.679 --> 0:12:28.160 natural gas that just spills into their most either accidentally 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:31.400 or on purpose, and so that's a product that the 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.800 companies go otherwise sell. So in many cases, if they 0:12:35.080 --> 0:12:38.000 plug certain leaks, they could actually get a positive return 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.120 because they could sell more gas. And so there's a 0:12:40.120 --> 0:12:42.680 lot of opportunity there for relatively low cost or even 0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:48.200 profitable changes to to plug the leaks. So, Zach tell 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:51.839 us about some of the characters that you you discovered, 0:12:52.559 --> 0:12:55.720 methane hunters. Yeah, the methane hunters, because that that's where 0:12:55.720 --> 0:12:59.240 it gets colorful. Yes, So I wrote around for a 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:03.199 few days, uh, in in West Texas with Sharon Wilson, 0:13:03.240 --> 0:13:08.200 who's who's a true daughter of Texas and uh, you know, 0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:12.280 she's got this hundred thousand dollar camera. She she works 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:16.880 for environmental activist nonprofit and she kind of drives around 0:13:16.960 --> 0:13:19.559 looking for you know, looking for oil wells that are 0:13:19.600 --> 0:13:22.320 that are spilling this stuff into the atmosphere, taking pictures 0:13:22.360 --> 0:13:26.760 and and and Uh. She's she's really funny, you know. 0:13:26.880 --> 0:13:30.400 She she loves to collect stories about her hostile encounters 0:13:30.440 --> 0:13:33.440 with oil field workers, who she always refers to as 0:13:33.559 --> 0:13:38.360 Jethrow um and um and uh. And then we also 0:13:38.640 --> 0:13:41.600 spent some time with the folks at Environmental Defense Fund, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:45.480 who are kind of doing something similar to what she's doing, 0:13:45.760 --> 0:13:49.280 but they have a much more kind of cooperative view 0:13:49.360 --> 0:13:51.600 of the of the industry. They're trying to sort of 0:13:52.160 --> 0:13:55.360 find facts that are useful to help the oil companies 0:13:55.400 --> 0:14:01.000 actually clean up their messes. I'm wondering about about Zach, 0:14:01.320 --> 0:14:03.439 where the government comes into this and like what rules 0:14:03.440 --> 0:14:06.320 and regulations are adhered to or not adhere to. What 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:09.080 is the regulatory environment around this. Yeah, it sounds to 0:14:09.080 --> 0:14:10.960 me like if there were stuff spilling out into the environment, 0:14:11.000 --> 0:14:14.840 like don't do that. Well, yeah, but there's basically not 0:14:14.920 --> 0:14:18.880 really any relevant regulation. Um. It's kind of a new 0:14:19.680 --> 0:14:21.720 thing just in the past ten years that people really 0:14:21.720 --> 0:14:24.880 focused on this issue. Methane isn't poisonous, it's not gonna, 0:14:25.080 --> 0:14:27.640 you know, kill your dog, and so you know, it 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:29.960 wasn't It's kind of like carbon. It's not something that 0:14:30.000 --> 0:14:33.400 we historically thought of as a pollutant until recently, and 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:35.960 so all that we're seeing here, all the efforts that 0:14:35.960 --> 0:14:38.360 we're seeing in the Permian are almost all uh, they're 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.400 private people like E. D F Mon doing the monitoring 0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:45.040 and their companies voluntarily trying to clean stuff up. But 0:14:45.080 --> 0:14:48.640 there it really isn't being totally driven by a government crackdown. 0:14:50.000 --> 0:14:54.360 So um. There's an accompanying quick take video that's also um, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.080 pretty mesmerizing stuff to watch. And one of the things 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.800 that stuff stuck out to me and that Zack was 0:15:00.040 --> 0:15:05.200 just how much um uh communities that have fracking um 0:15:05.280 --> 0:15:08.400 happening are affected by by methane keeping anything. And there's 0:15:08.400 --> 0:15:13.440 this amazing shot of um, how flammable uh even even 0:15:13.560 --> 0:15:16.880 water can be from from the sink. Um. So so 0:15:17.000 --> 0:15:19.040 just talk to us about the collateral damage that a 0:15:19.040 --> 0:15:23.040 lot of people end up facing with with methane links. So, 0:15:23.480 --> 0:15:26.640 you know, methane is natural gas. Well essentially it's the 0:15:26.680 --> 0:15:30.400 main component of natural gas. So you know, whenever we're 0:15:30.400 --> 0:15:33.000 talking about methane emissions from the oil and gas industry, 0:15:33.040 --> 0:15:36.800 it's you know, it's a flammable feel, you know, um 0:15:37.000 --> 0:15:40.520 and uh. But the I think what's kind of pernicious 0:15:40.560 --> 0:15:43.560 about methane, especially in the Permian basin, which is where 0:15:43.960 --> 0:15:47.320 we were. It's it's this incredible source of just a 0:15:47.400 --> 0:15:49.960 giant amount of methane. Is there really aren't a lot 0:15:50.000 --> 0:15:53.320 of people living there, you know, um, just numbers wise, 0:15:53.840 --> 0:15:56.640 a lot of these these events where something spewing into 0:15:56.640 --> 0:16:00.000 the air happens miles and miles and miles away from 0:16:00.000 --> 0:16:04.200 any humans, and so number one, it's not easy to 0:16:04.480 --> 0:16:06.760 even for the companies who own these assets to even 0:16:06.800 --> 0:16:09.760 know what's going on. Yeah, that's a good point. Listen, 0:16:09.800 --> 0:16:12.000 there's so much in this story. Um, I put it 0:16:12.040 --> 0:16:13.800 out on Twitter. I'll put it out again, or go 0:16:13.840 --> 0:16:16.160 to Bloomberg dot com business Week dot com to check 0:16:16.160 --> 0:16:17.920 it out. Such Minor, thank you so much. Good to 0:16:18.000 --> 0:16:20.840 have you in studio, Projects and Investigations reporter here at 0:16:20.880 --> 0:16:23.360 Bloomberg News and our thanks to Joe Weber, editor of 0:16:23.360 --> 0:16:32.280 Bloomberg Business Week. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:37.000 Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio. 0:16:37.800 --> 0:16:40.080 You are listening to the Friday edgis in Bloomberg Business Week. 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:42.600 What a week it's been. It has been a lot 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:46.040 going on on certainly the geopolitical front with Afghanistan. A 0:16:46.040 --> 0:16:47.800 lot going on in the markets, and we are continuing 0:16:47.800 --> 0:16:50.560 to watch China. As we've been talking about. Another day, 0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:54.200 another step in taming big tech overnight, China passing legislation 0:16:54.560 --> 0:16:57.520 setting out tougher rules for how companies handle user data. 0:16:57.600 --> 0:17:00.120 It's a move pushing forward its campaign to really her 0:17:00.200 --> 0:17:03.600 big text influence. Dexter Tip Roberts is a voice we've 0:17:03.600 --> 0:17:05.840 talked to in the past when it comes to what's 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:08.880 going on in China. He's Mansfield Fellow at the University 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.399 of Montana, author former Bloomberg Business Week China Bureau chief. 0:17:12.720 --> 0:17:15.000 His book The Myth of Chinese Capitalism, The Work of 0:17:15.080 --> 0:17:16.920 the Factory in the Future of the World. We've talked 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:19.359 to him about that. He joins us once again on 0:17:19.400 --> 0:17:21.919 the phone from Montana. Hey, Tiff, so good to have 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:26.160 you here again on Bloomberg Radio China. Help us make 0:17:26.280 --> 0:17:31.440 sense of the big picture here. Okay, well, Carol, it's 0:17:31.480 --> 0:17:35.359 great to be back again. Um. So, I think what 0:17:35.440 --> 0:17:40.439 we're seeing is obviously real efforts to reign in a 0:17:40.480 --> 0:17:45.119 chech sector that has been relatively unregulated. So we're seeing 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.800 the efforts, as you mentioned to put new controls on 0:17:48.840 --> 0:17:53.439 the use of data. Uh, there's anti monopoly efforts that 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:56.240 are happening as well. We see a tremendous amount of 0:17:56.240 --> 0:17:59.200 power in a few corporate hands in China when you 0:17:59.200 --> 0:18:02.360 look at the tech. But beyond that, there's a real 0:18:02.520 --> 0:18:06.560 ideological element to what's happening. And as we've seen now 0:18:07.160 --> 0:18:11.040 um with a with the speech that the party secretary 0:18:11.160 --> 0:18:13.600 Jen Thing made just a few days ago, a lot 0:18:13.640 --> 0:18:15.679 of it is tied up as well in trying to 0:18:15.760 --> 0:18:20.560 deal with growing wealth, inequality, and almost this perception at 0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:24.120 the top that uh having too much wealth is unseemly 0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:29.240 in some way. What is the endgame for Jing Ping? 0:18:29.680 --> 0:18:32.159 What is he and what does he want the Chinese 0:18:32.160 --> 0:18:36.399 Communist Party to accomplish? Here? Well, I think it's a 0:18:36.480 --> 0:18:42.320 tremendously ambitious plan to really create a new I would 0:18:42.320 --> 0:18:44.879 call it a new economic model what I've been calling 0:18:45.520 --> 0:18:49.760 politics and command economy in a nod back in the 0:18:49.800 --> 0:18:52.760 mal days who came up with politics in command, they 0:18:52.840 --> 0:18:58.040 really UH envision an economy which is much more government 0:18:58.119 --> 0:19:01.720 directed and supported, one in which the private sector is 0:19:02.040 --> 0:19:06.280 far more answerable to the state. And Uh, yes, the 0:19:06.720 --> 0:19:09.879 goes about trying to make money and earn profits and 0:19:10.000 --> 0:19:12.600 satisfy shareholders like in the rest of the world, but 0:19:12.680 --> 0:19:16.720 also very importantly has a key role to play in 0:19:16.720 --> 0:19:21.320 the society, including by the way, supporting the Chinese Communist Party. 0:19:21.480 --> 0:19:23.040 How do they do that, Tiff? I mean, how do 0:19:23.119 --> 0:19:27.399 they a private sector far more answerable to the state. 0:19:27.640 --> 0:19:29.879 Got that, it's clear, But how do you do that 0:19:29.920 --> 0:19:33.399 and then keep investors interested and comfortable about investing in 0:19:33.480 --> 0:19:36.600 China entities? Chinese entities, We've seen Chinese A d R 0:19:36.680 --> 0:19:38.440 s pull back in a big way. Here in the 0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.879 United States, we see Hong Kong in a bear market. 0:19:41.160 --> 0:19:43.520 How do you how do you do both of those 0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:47.280 and do them well? Well? I think the the easy 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.240 answer is, uh, there is no answer. We I mean, 0:19:50.520 --> 0:19:53.240 it's entirely possible that they can't pull this off. I 0:19:53.280 --> 0:19:58.280 believe um as you say, there's huge concern already in 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.320 the markets about what they're doing. We've seen a whole 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:05.600 series of founders of these tech companies resign in the 0:20:05.680 --> 0:20:10.120 last few months. We've seen obviously the markets inside China 0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.640 as well take a serious battering. Uh So the big 0:20:13.760 --> 0:20:16.359 question is, yeah, how do you how do you continue 0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:19.120 to how do you continue to push that much more 0:20:19.160 --> 0:20:22.920 ideological control over the the economy, and at the same 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.240 time still have investors who want to put money in, 0:20:26.440 --> 0:20:31.760 and at the same time have innovative entrepreneurial companies that 0:20:31.760 --> 0:20:34.840 that feel confident, you know, we're working on trying to 0:20:34.840 --> 0:20:39.280 grow their companies. Does it seem like the Chinese Communist 0:20:39.280 --> 0:20:43.040 Party actually cares whether or not Chinese A d R 0:20:43.119 --> 0:20:46.320 s do well in the stock market or Chinese companies 0:20:46.480 --> 0:20:51.440 are valued highly by shareholders. Well, it does matter, because 0:20:51.680 --> 0:20:54.919 they continue to see the importance of the private sector. 0:20:55.200 --> 0:20:58.000 And and of course the big technology companies are a 0:20:58.000 --> 0:21:00.840 big part of that in supporting the economy. They are 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:06.240 the biggest job creators and employers already, um they should be, 0:21:06.280 --> 0:21:09.000 and they have been the biggest source of innovation. So 0:21:09.119 --> 0:21:12.879 Beijing really does still want to They don't want to. 0:21:12.920 --> 0:21:15.720 They don't want to spook global capital, they don't want 0:21:15.760 --> 0:21:18.320 to spook their own entrepreneurs too much. But at the 0:21:18.359 --> 0:21:21.359 same time, as I said, they have this very you know, 0:21:21.440 --> 0:21:25.760 seemingly contradictory plan to try to make them far more 0:21:25.800 --> 0:21:28.280 answerable to the state. So I think they do care, 0:21:28.320 --> 0:21:30.880 but it's not it's not going to be easy. Tiff So, 0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:33.920 as we mentioned Bloomberg Business Week, China be your chief. 0:21:33.920 --> 0:21:38.880 You understand this country so well through its transitions, UM 0:21:39.240 --> 0:21:41.840 and you know from from having their front seat to 0:21:41.920 --> 0:21:44.600 it all. I always think about our audience, UM and 0:21:44.640 --> 0:21:46.960 the investors that are out there. So so what does 0:21:46.960 --> 0:21:49.280 that mean? How do we need to be thinking about China? 0:21:49.600 --> 0:21:53.320 Who is a country that does long term plans? So 0:21:53.400 --> 0:21:57.280 what is the future China? Yeah? Well, I think first 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:00.200 of all, uh, you know you anyone who has him, 0:22:00.200 --> 0:22:02.800 is that this is a short term effort mainly focused 0:22:02.800 --> 0:22:09.000 on regulating uh and as all until now, uh you 0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:13.359 know I not adequately regulated tech sector is in for 0:22:13.440 --> 0:22:16.240 a reude surprise. This is gonna keep going. Uh. We 0:22:16.280 --> 0:22:19.800 will continue to see surprises that you know, moves that, 0:22:20.119 --> 0:22:23.160 at least in our perspective, our anti market and could 0:22:23.240 --> 0:22:27.000 hurt the Chinese economy. Uh. So I think I think 0:22:27.040 --> 0:22:30.040 we can expect this to keep on going. I think 0:22:30.119 --> 0:22:34.160 for international investors, it's clear that there's certain sectors that 0:22:34.720 --> 0:22:38.919 UM are probably not going to be as aren't going 0:22:38.960 --> 0:22:41.280 to do. They shouldn't be focusing our efforts. They're going 0:22:41.320 --> 0:22:44.320 forward given what the Chinese government has told us. So obviously, 0:22:44.480 --> 0:22:49.400 private education probably private healthcare, real estate possibly is going 0:22:49.440 --> 0:22:52.960 to be ranged in as well. I think instead companies 0:22:53.000 --> 0:22:55.960