Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week. I'm Carol Masser and I'm
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stanovik. We're here every day bringing
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Speaker 1: pm Eastern Time on Bloomberg Radio, or watch us on
Speaker 1: YouTube search Bloomberg clovel News. Well, let's not get get
Speaker 1: to Dr Ian Lustbader. He joins us each and every
Speaker 1: Friday right here on Bloomberg Business Week. He's clinical professor
Speaker 1: of medicine at n y U Langnes Medical Center, joining
Speaker 1: us on the phone today. Uh, Dr LUs Better, always
Speaker 1: great to be able to check in with you. I
Speaker 1: want to start by hitting on boosters because this is
Speaker 1: this is the story of the day when it comes
Speaker 1: to COVID. Uh are you already starting to plan for
Speaker 1: your booster shot? You're a doctor at at n y U.
Speaker 1: You were among the first to be able to get
Speaker 1: a COVID vaccine. Are you going to get your boosters in? Yes,
Speaker 1: I'm not in the absolute first group of Happy Priday,
Speaker 1: by the way, Tim and Carroll's only a lot of
Speaker 1: challenges out there at many levels, Delta certainly one of them. Yes,
Speaker 1: I think healthcare professionals, anyone who got vaccinated eight months
Speaker 1: ago will be on the list, not first on the list,
Speaker 1: first on the list now. And we're already writing orders
Speaker 1: for the booster shots which will begin next week for
Speaker 1: solid organ transplants. And you know, suppressed patients, uh, people
Speaker 1: on chemotherapy, etcetera, etcetera. And there are a number of
Speaker 1: patients who feel that they are you know, compromised HIV
Speaker 1: patients or diabetes or patients or the other conditions. We're
Speaker 1: just gonna have to see who, um, you know, the
Speaker 1: distribution of that. But September twentieth at least appears to
Speaker 1: be the next traunch of people who would get vaccinated,
Speaker 1: assuming all goes smoothly, uh, And those would be people
Speaker 1: who are eight months out, like healthcare providers. And there's
Speaker 1: definitely a lot of trouble, a lot of anxiety with
Speaker 1: those doctors and colleagues some of whom have gotten breakthrough
Speaker 1: delta in sections, and and people who are concerned about
Speaker 1: their immunity that is beginning to drop. No, So Dr
Speaker 1: LUs bader Um first all, so good to have you
Speaker 1: back with us. And in terms of people who are
Speaker 1: immune compromised, do they have to get a note or
Speaker 1: something from the doctor in order to get to be
Speaker 1: at the top of the list, at the front of
Speaker 1: the line. Here when it comes to a booster, at
Speaker 1: this point we have to place an order for that
Speaker 1: booster or so they do. They have to request it
Speaker 1: and meet certain criteria. At this point, I think by
Speaker 1: September twentieth that will be you know, again, depending on
Speaker 1: how it all goes another trunche of people. Now there
Speaker 1: are people who do go to pharmacies and and are
Speaker 1: able to get another booster shot. It's certainly not not
Speaker 1: protocol uh, and there's probably no real need for that.
Speaker 1: You know, the immunity doesn't drop off a cliff, it's
Speaker 1: just a slow gradual decline. My my analogy is that
Speaker 1: your your vaccine is like a sponge and delta COVID
Speaker 1: is like a puddle, and you get splashed with this
Speaker 1: puddle and the bigger your sponge is, the more likely
Speaker 1: you're going to be able to sop up all of
Speaker 1: that virus. Over time, your sponge shrinks a bit, And
Speaker 1: what the boosters really do is make the sponge big again,
Speaker 1: so that when you are exposed to DELTA or COVID
Speaker 1: so far variants, it absorbs it so your body does
Speaker 1: not have to fight off as big an infection, so
Speaker 1: that sponge doesn't just disappear, at least in most patients.
Speaker 1: So that's the rationale for why a booster is indicated
Speaker 1: at this time. One thing that I've been struggling with
Speaker 1: is just thinking about the that we've had here in
Speaker 1: the United States getting vaccine. Wary people going to get vaccinated,
Speaker 1: and even those folks who were hesitant who did get vaccinated,
Speaker 1: are they going to end up getting a third shot?
Speaker 1: And to what extent does that change the way that
Speaker 1: the pandemic is spreading Because we have these metrics right unvaccinated,
Speaker 1: vaccinated with one shot, vaccinated with two shots, And I
Speaker 1: wonder how many of those folks who are vaccinated with
Speaker 1: two shots are actually going to go out and get
Speaker 1: that booster shot. If the CDC indeed recommends it, You're
Speaker 1: you're absolutely right. I think, you know, it's a very
Speaker 1: dynamic process. I think all we can do is educate people.
Speaker 1: I think there is still some vaccine fear, although as
Speaker 1: Delta rampages through unvaccinated people and doctors and hospitals are overwhelmed,
Speaker 1: and people see that on the news, they begin to realize, say,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, even though I may be young and healthy,
Speaker 1: I could get Delta. And they certainly can and probably
Speaker 1: will at the rate we're going. Um, So I think, um,
Speaker 1: we will see more of those eighties people who are
Speaker 1: eligible getting vaccines. But at the end of the day, UM,
Speaker 1: you can only protect people who are willing to get protected,
Speaker 1: and I think for frontline healthcare workers as one example,
Speaker 1: or you know, compromise people if they're willing to take
Speaker 1: a booster. I think that's reasonable to do. We've certainly
Speaker 1: seen in Israel and other countries that certainly the fiser
Speaker 1: shot that protection does begin to diminish, and people are
Speaker 1: hospitalized who are vaccinated, and some people say, well, why
Speaker 1: should I get a vaccine. You know, if it begins
Speaker 1: to lose efficacy but it does provide protection, then that
Speaker 1: does really reduced severe disease, and so help me out
Speaker 1: some really basic questions. If I got the Fiser vaccine initially,
Speaker 1: that's the booster. I have to get same thing for
Speaker 1: maderna or can you mix and match? So at this point, yes,
Speaker 1: you're supposed to get the same shot. We don't really
Speaker 1: have a lot of data and mixing and matching. Certainly
Speaker 1: with J and J, there's a lot of strong data
Speaker 1: that taking the MR and a vaccine after that really
Speaker 1: gives you a boost, and so I think likely any
Speaker 1: vaccine would provide a significant boost. But at this point
Speaker 1: the consensus is to give the same vaccine for the
Speaker 1: third if you've done the MR nas can I ask
Speaker 1: you also for those individuals that ultimately get hospitalized UM
Speaker 1: and aren't vaccinated, are we better in terms of new
Speaker 1: treatments for dealing with them? What are the treatments that
Speaker 1: everybody's getting in the hospital unvaccinated but down with COVID. Yeah,
Speaker 1: thank you for asking that. I mean, I think we
Speaker 1: really should have made a better national effort for treatment.
Speaker 1: We've been very focused and appropriately so an early diagnosis
Speaker 1: and vaccination, but the problem is that's not ad and
Speaker 1: so we are still giving people steroids and blood centers
Speaker 1: and monoclonal antibodies, which do seem to help, But we
Speaker 1: really should have made a better effort on anti virals
Speaker 1: and other medications possible off the shelf, medications that there's
Speaker 1: some studies on, and really been aggressive in doing those
Speaker 1: studies so that we can or for treatment to those
Speaker 1: ninety million people who are not yet vaccinated and who
Speaker 1: likely will get delta. Dr los Bader. Earlier this week
Speaker 1: we spoke to Dr William Haseltine. He's written many books,
Speaker 1: U started companies UM and he his latest book is
Speaker 1: called c v PTSD COVID related post traumatic stress Disorder.
Speaker 1: And I'm wondering what you're seeing in the medical community
Speaker 1: right now, what you're seeing among patients who aren't necessarily
Speaker 1: haven't necessarily gotten COVID or have recovered from COVID, but
Speaker 1: have some sort of PTSD related to the pandemic that
Speaker 1: we've been going through since March. Him, You're completely right.
Speaker 1: I think we are underestimating the troum. The two Americans
Speaker 1: UM they were anxious and feeling vulnerable about DELTA and COVID,
Speaker 1: initially confused about vaccinations, are hesitant. I think what's going
Speaker 1: on geo politically is I'm seeing patients over the last
Speaker 1: few days that are very anxious and said about global politics.
Speaker 1: So I think we're seeing a lot of PTSD coming together,
Speaker 1: uh and rattling a lot of America, and certainly the
Speaker 1: doctors who were on the front lines in the i
Speaker 1: c u S treating patients, watching them die because of
Speaker 1: poor you know, treatment availability at the time, and now
Speaker 1: seeing a surge of more cases. Um, everyone is really traumatized,
Speaker 1: even our front line, you know, doctors and first responders
Speaker 1: who you think of as calm no matter what. I
Speaker 1: think everyone is having a toll taken on them and
Speaker 1: I think we need to acknowledge that. And uh, you know,
Speaker 1: people are for guidance and there are some conflicting data
Speaker 1: and mixed messages which I think stressed people out as well. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's all. We definitely see it a lot within our community. Hey, Ian,
Speaker 1: thank you so much. Dr Ian LUs Bet, our clinical
Speaker 1: professor of Medicine at n y U Land going on
Speaker 1: the phone in New York. Right now, cases are topping
Speaker 1: two million globally, depths passing four point war million. You're
Speaker 1: listening to Bloomberg Business Week, Carol Master, Tim Stanevik in
Speaker 1: our Interactive Broker Studio. Gotta say when I saw this
Speaker 1: this morning, I tweeted the story out with the line,
Speaker 1: now what it is Today's Bloomberg Big Take. It's a
Speaker 1: most round on the Bloomberg terminal. It is uh in
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. It's about the methane hunters racing to
Speaker 1: change the course tim of global warming. We'll joining us
Speaker 1: now is Joel Weber, editor for Bloomberg Business Week. He's
Speaker 1: on the remote from Massachusetts. Also in the studio with us,
Speaker 1: Zach Myder, Projects, an investigations reporter for Bloomberg News. Joel
Speaker 1: frackers in America's largest oil field. They are letting massive
Speaker 1: amounts of natural gas spill into the atmosphere. But the
Speaker 1: methane hunters are finding where that is leaking and helping
Speaker 1: plug the potent greenhound greenhouse gas. Yeah. So to Carol's point,
Speaker 1: now what, but there there's a little bit of a
Speaker 1: hopeful quality to this story, um, which is that you know,
Speaker 1: methane is terrible stuff, and it is leaking at unfortunate rates,
Speaker 1: but we now have technology that allows us to actually
Speaker 1: see where the weeks are and we can actually you know,
Speaker 1: handle it, handle it and fix it. And you know,
Speaker 1: if we have the willpower for this and not so long,
Speaker 1: we can actually eliminate a lot of this problem. But
Speaker 1: you know, there's some keywords in there, UM that you
Speaker 1: know are are going to be sources of tension in
Speaker 1: the years to come. UM. But all this reporting goes
Speaker 1: back to Zach and in his interest in and methane. So,
Speaker 1: so Zach walk us through UM how you how you
Speaker 1: kind of found out about this area of coverage and
Speaker 1: then how you went about telling the story. Yeah. Sure,
Speaker 1: I mean what was special to me about UM that
Speaker 1: this question about methane emissions is that it's really one
Speaker 1: of the UM big opportunities that the world has to
Speaker 1: make a difference in the pace of climate change quickly,
Speaker 1: because methane is only in the air for about ten
Speaker 1: years UM. And so if you were to do something
Speaker 1: to radically reduce how much we're putting in the air
Speaker 1: within a generation, you'd actually have a tangible effect on
Speaker 1: the pace of global warming. Something like a third of
Speaker 1: the warming we anticipate over the next couple of decades
Speaker 1: could actually be eliminated just by dealing with the methane problem. Well,
Speaker 1: so we always talking about carbon emission, so give me
Speaker 1: some context, um, Zach, in terms of methane, how much
Speaker 1: are we putting out there? Because as you say, ten years,
Speaker 1: that to me, I can get my head around that
Speaker 1: and maybe how we could get ahead of it. Give
Speaker 1: me some perspective that how much we're putting out right now? Sure,
Speaker 1: So carbon is the biggest cause of human cause global warming. Um,
Speaker 1: it's the biggest chunk. But methane is the second biggest chunk,
Speaker 1: and it's responsible for maybe a quarter of what's happened
Speaker 1: so far. But so it's really significant. And um, it
Speaker 1: comes from a lot of things. It's it's not like
Speaker 1: carbon comes from burning stuff, which we mostly do on
Speaker 1: purpose because it's useful to generate power or whatever. A
Speaker 1: lot of methane is like just kind of a byproduct.
Speaker 1: Cows burp it out, it comes from landfills. There's all
Speaker 1: these ways that it gets in the atmosphere. And one
Speaker 1: of the biggest is oil and gas. We've talked about
Speaker 1: with food waste, that all of the food waste and
Speaker 1: garbage dumps of that creating methane. So, Zach, what what
Speaker 1: is the economic cost not just not for the climate change,
Speaker 1: but the economic incentive for companies to take control of this.
Speaker 1: You have companies like VP actually blogging about this, that's right.
Speaker 1: So that's another exciting opportunity about methane is that um
Speaker 1: in the oil and gas industry, the methane comes from
Speaker 1: natural gas that just spills into their most either accidentally
Speaker 1: or on purpose, and so that's a product that the
Speaker 1: companies go otherwise sell. So in many cases, if they
Speaker 1: plug certain leaks, they could actually get a positive return
Speaker 1: because they could sell more gas. And so there's a
Speaker 1: lot of opportunity there for relatively low cost or even
Speaker 1: profitable changes to to plug the leaks. So, Zach tell
Speaker 1: us about some of the characters that you you discovered,
Speaker 1: methane hunters. Yeah, the methane hunters, because that that's where
Speaker 1: it gets colorful. Yes, So I wrote around for a
Speaker 1: few days, uh, in in West Texas with Sharon Wilson,
Speaker 1: who's who's a true daughter of Texas and uh, you know,
Speaker 1: she's got this hundred thousand dollar camera. She she works
Speaker 1: for environmental activist nonprofit and she kind of drives around
Speaker 1: looking for you know, looking for oil wells that are
Speaker 1: that are spilling this stuff into the atmosphere, taking pictures
Speaker 1: and and and Uh. She's she's really funny, you know.
Speaker 1: She she loves to collect stories about her hostile encounters
Speaker 1: with oil field workers, who she always refers to as
Speaker 1: Jethrow um and um and uh. And then we also
Speaker 1: spent some time with the folks at Environmental Defense Fund,
Speaker 1: who are kind of doing something similar to what she's doing,
Speaker 1: but they have a much more kind of cooperative view
Speaker 1: of the of the industry. They're trying to sort of
Speaker 1: find facts that are useful to help the oil companies
Speaker 1: actually clean up their messes. I'm wondering about about Zach,
Speaker 1: where the government comes into this and like what rules
Speaker 1: and regulations are adhered to or not adhere to. What
Speaker 1: is the regulatory environment around this. Yeah, it sounds to
Speaker 1: me like if there were stuff spilling out into the environment,
Speaker 1: like don't do that. Well, yeah, but there's basically not
Speaker 1: really any relevant regulation. Um. It's kind of a new
Speaker 1: thing just in the past ten years that people really
Speaker 1: focused on this issue. Methane isn't poisonous, it's not gonna,
Speaker 1: you know, kill your dog, and so you know, it
Speaker 1: wasn't It's kind of like carbon. It's not something that
Speaker 1: we historically thought of as a pollutant until recently, and
Speaker 1: so all that we're seeing here, all the efforts that
Speaker 1: we're seeing in the Permian are almost all uh, they're
Speaker 1: private people like E. D F Mon doing the monitoring
Speaker 1: and their companies voluntarily trying to clean stuff up. But
Speaker 1: there it really isn't being totally driven by a government crackdown.
Speaker 1: So um. There's an accompanying quick take video that's also um,
Speaker 1: pretty mesmerizing stuff to watch. And one of the things
Speaker 1: that stuff stuck out to me and that Zack was
Speaker 1: just how much um uh communities that have fracking um
Speaker 1: happening are affected by by methane keeping anything. And there's
Speaker 1: this amazing shot of um, how flammable uh even even
Speaker 1: water can be from from the sink. Um. So so
Speaker 1: just talk to us about the collateral damage that a
Speaker 1: lot of people end up facing with with methane links. So,
Speaker 1: you know, methane is natural gas. Well essentially it's the
Speaker 1: main component of natural gas. So you know, whenever we're
Speaker 1: talking about methane emissions from the oil and gas industry,
Speaker 1: it's you know, it's a flammable feel, you know, um
Speaker 1: and uh. But the I think what's kind of pernicious
Speaker 1: about methane, especially in the Permian basin, which is where
Speaker 1: we were. It's it's this incredible source of just a
Speaker 1: giant amount of methane. Is there really aren't a lot
Speaker 1: of people living there, you know, um, just numbers wise,
Speaker 1: a lot of these these events where something spewing into
Speaker 1: the air happens miles and miles and miles away from
Speaker 1: any humans, and so number one, it's not easy to
Speaker 1: even for the companies who own these assets to even
Speaker 1: know what's going on. Yeah, that's a good point. Listen,
Speaker 1: there's so much in this story. Um, I put it
Speaker 1: out on Twitter. I'll put it out again, or go
Speaker 1: to Bloomberg dot com business Week dot com to check
Speaker 1: it out. Such Minor, thank you so much. Good to
Speaker 1: have you in studio, Projects and Investigations reporter here at
Speaker 1: Bloomberg News and our thanks to Joe Weber, editor of
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Business Week. You're listening to Bloomberg Business Week with
Speaker 1: Carol Masser and Bloomberg Quick Takes Tim Stinovic on Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: You are listening to the Friday edgis in Bloomberg Business Week.
Speaker 1: What a week it's been. It has been a lot
Speaker 1: going on on certainly the geopolitical front with Afghanistan. A
Speaker 1: lot going on in the markets, and we are continuing
Speaker 1: to watch China. As we've been talking about. Another day,
Speaker 1: another step in taming big tech overnight, China passing legislation
Speaker 1: setting out tougher rules for how companies handle user data.
Speaker 1: It's a move pushing forward its campaign to really her
Speaker 1: big text influence. Dexter Tip Roberts is a voice we've
Speaker 1: talked to in the past when it comes to what's
Speaker 1: going on in China. He's Mansfield Fellow at the University
Speaker 1: of Montana, author former Bloomberg Business Week China Bureau chief.
Speaker 1: His book The Myth of Chinese Capitalism, The Work of
Speaker 1: the Factory in the Future of the World. We've talked
Speaker 1: to him about that. He joins us once again on
Speaker 1: the phone from Montana. Hey, Tiff, so good to have
Speaker 1: you here again on Bloomberg Radio China. Help us make
Speaker 1: sense of the big picture here. Okay, well, Carol, it's
Speaker 1: great to be back again. Um. So, I think what
Speaker 1: we're seeing is obviously real efforts to reign in a
Speaker 1: chech sector that has been relatively unregulated. So we're seeing
Speaker 1: the efforts, as you mentioned to put new controls on
Speaker 1: the use of data. Uh, there's anti monopoly efforts that
Speaker 1: are happening as well. We see a tremendous amount of
Speaker 1: power in a few corporate hands in China when you
Speaker 1: look at the tech. But beyond that, there's a real
Speaker 1: ideological element to what's happening. And as we've seen now
Speaker 1: um with a with the speech that the party secretary
Speaker 1: Jen Thing made just a few days ago, a lot
Speaker 1: of it is tied up as well in trying to
Speaker 1: deal with growing wealth, inequality, and almost this perception at
Speaker 1: the top that uh having too much wealth is unseemly
Speaker 1: in some way. What is the endgame for Jing Ping?
Speaker 1: What is he and what does he want the Chinese
Speaker 1: Communist Party to accomplish? Here? Well, I think it's a
Speaker 1: tremendously ambitious plan to really create a new I would
Speaker 1: call it a new economic model what I've been calling
Speaker 1: politics and command economy in a nod back in the
Speaker 1: mal days who came up with politics in command, they
Speaker 1: really UH envision an economy which is much more government
Speaker 1: directed and supported, one in which the private sector is
Speaker 1: far more answerable to the state. And Uh, yes, the
Speaker 1: goes about trying to make money and earn profits and
Speaker 1: satisfy shareholders like in the rest of the world, but
Speaker 1: also very importantly has a key role to play in
Speaker 1: the society, including by the way, supporting the Chinese Communist Party.
Speaker 1: How do they do that, Tiff? I mean, how do
Speaker 1: they a private sector far more answerable to the state.
Speaker 1: Got that, it's clear, But how do you do that
Speaker 1: and then keep investors interested and comfortable about investing in
Speaker 1: China entities? Chinese entities, We've seen Chinese A d R
Speaker 1: s pull back in a big way. Here in the
Speaker 1: United States, we see Hong Kong in a bear market.
Speaker 1: How do you how do you do both of those
Speaker 1: and do them well? Well? I think the the easy
Speaker 1: answer is, uh, there is no answer. We I mean,
Speaker 1: it's entirely possible that they can't pull this off. I
Speaker 1: believe um as you say, there's huge concern already in
Speaker 1: the markets about what they're doing. We've seen a whole
Speaker 1: series of founders of these tech companies resign in the
Speaker 1: last few months. We've seen obviously the markets inside China
Speaker 1: as well take a serious battering. Uh So the big
Speaker 1: question is, yeah, how do you how do you continue
Speaker 1: to how do you continue to push that much more
Speaker 1: ideological control over the the economy, and at the same
Speaker 1: time still have investors who want to put money in,
Speaker 1: and at the same time have innovative entrepreneurial companies that
Speaker 1: that feel confident, you know, we're working on trying to
Speaker 1: grow their companies. Does it seem like the Chinese Communist
Speaker 1: Party actually cares whether or not Chinese A d R
Speaker 1: s do well in the stock market or Chinese companies
Speaker 1: are valued highly by shareholders. Well, it does matter, because
Speaker 1: they continue to see the importance of the private sector.
Speaker 1: And and of course the big technology companies are a
Speaker 1: big part of that in supporting the economy. They are
Speaker 1: the biggest job creators and employers already, um they should be,
Speaker 1: and they have been the biggest source of innovation. So
Speaker 1: Beijing really does still want to They don't want to.
Speaker 1: They don't want to spook global capital, they don't want
Speaker 1: to spook their own entrepreneurs too much. But at the
Speaker 1: same time, as I said, they have this very you know,
Speaker 1: seemingly contradictory plan to try to make them far more
Speaker 1: answerable to the state. So I think they do care,
Speaker 1: but it's not it's not going to be easy. Tiff So,
Speaker 1: as we mentioned Bloomberg Business Week, China be your chief.
Speaker 1: You understand this country so well through its transitions, UM
Speaker 1: and you know from from having their front seat to
Speaker 1: it all. I always think about our audience, UM and
Speaker 1: the investors that are out there. So so what does
Speaker 1: that mean? How do we need to be thinking about China?
Speaker 1: Who is a country that does long term plans? So
Speaker 1: what is the future China? Yeah? Well, I think first
Speaker 1: of all, uh, you know you anyone who has him,
Speaker 1: is that this is a short term effort mainly focused
Speaker 1: on regulating uh and as all until now, uh you
Speaker 1: know I not adequately regulated tech sector is in for
Speaker 1: a reude surprise. This is gonna keep going. Uh. We
Speaker 1: will continue to see surprises that you know, moves that,
Speaker 1: at least in our perspective, our anti market and could
Speaker 1: hurt the Chinese economy. Uh. So I think I think
Speaker 1: we can expect this to keep on going. I think
Speaker 1: for international investors, it's clear that there's certain sectors that
Speaker 1: UM are probably not going to be as aren't going
Speaker 1: to do. They shouldn't be focusing our efforts. They're going
Speaker 1: forward given what the Chinese government has told us. So obviously,
Speaker 1: private education probably private healthcare, real estate possibly is going
Speaker 1: to be ranged in as well. I think instead companies
Speaker 1: should be looking at those areas that are clearly top
Speaker 1: priorities for the party in the government, so you know,
Speaker 1: green energy uh uh and right uh, you know, modernizing
Speaker 1: agriculture tip, and these various areas that are very important
Speaker 1: to that. Tiff, really quick twenty seconds. Does this slow
Speaker 1: the rise of China as we've known it? I really
Speaker 1: do think that it does slow the rise of China.
Speaker 1: They're they're also facing huge demographic headwinds, it's going to
Speaker 1: get much worse than the coming years, and just cracking
Speaker 1: down on the private sector at the same time, it's
Speaker 1: just gonna make things tougher and will slow the economy.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Thank you. We have been looking forward to
Speaker 1: getting some time with you, uh and getting you to
Speaker 1: weigh in on all of this, and hopefully you'll come
Speaker 1: back real soon. Tiff Roberts Mansfield Fellow at the University
Speaker 1: of Montana, former Bloomberg Business Week China Bureau chief. His
Speaker 1: book The Myth of Chinese Capitalism. Highly recommend that you
Speaker 1: check it out. This is Bloomberg Business Week with Carol
Speaker 1: Masser and Bloomberg quick takes. Tim Stinovic from Bloomberg Radio.
Speaker 1: We have been keeping an eye on Tesla. We did
Speaker 1: see an earlier rally in the shares today and I
Speaker 1: just want to pull it up because I think they
Speaker 1: pretty much run out of steam. I think it was
Speaker 1: only oh, it's back up of that one point one
Speaker 1: percent here. Um. This was following the company's AI Day
Speaker 1: where Elon muskinville a humanoid robot to take over boring work. Yes, folks,
Speaker 1: it's Elon's world that we're definitely living in. It was it, though,
Speaker 1: an actual humanoid robot. It wasn't well. Joining us now
Speaker 1: to give us all the details from AI day and
Speaker 1: why Tesla is doing this and also what Tesla is
Speaker 1: thinking about when it comes to chips is Dana Hole,
Speaker 1: technology reporter for Bloomberg News. She joins us on the
Speaker 1: phone from San Francisco. Dan, it's always great to talk
Speaker 1: with you, especially when we get to talk about Tesla.
Speaker 1: Let's just lead with with Optimus here, because I think
Speaker 1: that's what everybody is talking about today. This is a
Speaker 1: humanoid robot. What does Elon musk say it can do?
Speaker 1: Even though he didn't show off a real version or
Speaker 1: even prototype of it right. I mean, to de clear,
Speaker 1: there was like a human dress a roo. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of hilarious robot. Um, you must need some
Speaker 1: need some points about, you know, the need for universal
Speaker 1: basic income, the future of labor, how the robot could
Speaker 1: be trained to do sort of menial, boring tasks. UM.
Speaker 1: I mean my my thought was like, Okay, he's designing
Speaker 1: robots so that he can like displace all of his
Speaker 1: workers at his factor pace. I you know, you know,
Speaker 1: it wasn't entirely clear how the robots fits into the
Speaker 1: company's clean energy mission. But you know, this is clearly
Speaker 1: a recruiting event, and you know he's trying to make
Speaker 1: the point that we're not just a car company now,
Speaker 1: we're also a robotics company. Down I have to say,
Speaker 1: we're showing the video for our YouTube channel so they
Speaker 1: can all see it as well. Um, it looks more
Speaker 1: like he's auditioning for all that jazz or something like.
Speaker 1: It's just it's bizarre world, is it not. Yeah, And
Speaker 1: I think what's sort of sad is that. Um. I
Speaker 1: mean as a as an event, you know, the event
Speaker 1: was actually very technical and it really cltured all of
Speaker 1: these engineers who were on has of Lotto Pilots team
Speaker 1: talking about what they've learned as they tried to improve
Speaker 1: their self driving software and the challenges that they faced,
Speaker 1: and their efforts to kind of design a new ship
Speaker 1: and a super computer, and how they're training their neural
Speaker 1: networks and using simulation and have a thousand pots and strong,
Speaker 1: you know, dated labeling team, and they really they had
Speaker 1: all these other people who were not Elon speaking and
Speaker 1: it was really kind of a cool thing to see,
Speaker 1: you know, other people on stage talking vary in depth
Speaker 1: about what they're working on. But then you had this
Speaker 1: robot come out or this you know, fake probot come
Speaker 1: out that kind of sole the show. And so now
Speaker 1: everyone's talking about this you know, robot prototype and not
Speaker 1: the presentation. And I think he really shot himself on
Speaker 1: the foot. I mean, it's just just supposed to be
Speaker 1: the one more thing thing. It kind of took the
Speaker 1: thunder out of what they actually talked about during the
Speaker 1: technical presentation. Well, let's talk about some of that stuff, Danna,
Speaker 1: because as you and Ludlow right over the course of
Speaker 1: several presentations, Tesla highlighted the progress that it's making on
Speaker 1: semiconductors that have been designed in house to power the
Speaker 1: brains used for its advanced driver assistance features. You guys
Speaker 1: write that if Tesla follows through on this and licensing
Speaker 1: it's tech, it could end up competing with the likes
Speaker 1: of Nvidia and other suppliers of chips to the auto industry.
Speaker 1: What's the timeline look like on something like this as
Speaker 1: auto manufacturers, in addition many other companies struggle to get
Speaker 1: their hands on chips. Yeah, well, I mean, there wasn't
Speaker 1: there wasn't a firm timeline. Um. But but I think
Speaker 1: it's just part of Testa's overall strategy of bringing everything
Speaker 1: in house. You know. I think that, you know, instead
Speaker 1: of relying on suppliers for chips, they're trying to make
Speaker 1: their own. And they said, you know, and and it's still,
Speaker 1: you know, far away from actually being in high volume production.
Speaker 1: It's not clear he's fabricating it. But just the fact
Speaker 1: that they're even doing it, I think is exciting the people.
Speaker 1: And you know, and I mean, again, everything the Testa does,
Speaker 1: you know, Musk always kind of sets out aggressive timelines
Speaker 1: and it takes a while for them to actually come
Speaker 1: to fruition. But you know, I think they were just
Speaker 1: trying to give a flavor to people that like, listen,
Speaker 1: we're really we're trying to bring all this hardware in
Speaker 1: house and do it on our own. Danna, how do
Speaker 1: you you know this company so well? You know Elon
Speaker 1: must so well, and you've seen the promises, the things
Speaker 1: that don't happen or the timeline that changes. Then ultimately
Speaker 1: am you know this is a car company that everybody
Speaker 1: else in the industry has been looking at, uh and
Speaker 1: upping their game as a result. How do you kind
Speaker 1: of strategize or think about the news and that AI
Speaker 1: event yesterday into terms of what it will ultimately really
Speaker 1: mean for tests the longer term. I mean, I think
Speaker 1: that you know, Testless mission is to accelerate the advent
Speaker 1: of sustainable energy, and they have clearly done that on
Speaker 1: the car side, because they are very well known for
Speaker 1: making electric cars. They pushed everyone else to the auto
Speaker 1: industry to make electric cars. But now they've kind of
Speaker 1: got mission creep where you know, they've got these energy
Speaker 1: products that they don't talk about that much, including the
Speaker 1: solar roof and of the megapac and auto build Auto
Speaker 1: bit or um. You know, the company's corporate website now
Speaker 1: features the big batteries for utilities. But then lastly they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: and we're also a robotics company. So I just feel
Speaker 1: like you want us trying to capture the best of
Speaker 1: the brightest talents, and he's like an octopus who has
Speaker 1: the tentacles and many many things. I think the question
Speaker 1: is can they keep can they keep working on these
Speaker 1: additional projects while executing on the main projects they have.
Speaker 1: They have a lot going on right now with these
Speaker 1: additional factories and Austin and Berlin and these products like
Speaker 1: the cyber truck and the Suni truck that have not
Speaker 1: come out yet, and so you know, is showing the
Speaker 1: world that you also have a robotic unit. I mean
Speaker 1: that's cool, but like, what does that mean for the cars?
Speaker 1: I mean I didn't I felt like what was missing
Speaker 1: with some time with all together. I guess he did
Speaker 1: say that when needs you point out in the story
Speaker 1: that uses the eight cameras that are used in the
Speaker 1: full self driving to conduct itself right, just in the
Speaker 1: last ten seconds we have right, Yes, there there is
Speaker 1: a bigger vision there. I just don't know if it
Speaker 1: was super articulating. Right, totally makes sense. Danna Hoole technology
Speaker 1: reporter for Bloomberg News joining us on the phone from
Speaker 1: San Francisco. You can follow her on Twitter at Dana
Speaker 1: Hole as well. Yeah but you let me drive? No no,
Speaker 1: no home an please, I'll drivel. I want to drive,
Speaker 1: drive baby question. This is the drive to the globe.
Speaker 1: Thanks well, dry us Dawn on Bloomberg Radio. It's definitely
Speaker 1: a wacky Friday. And tim months it wasn't. I didn't
Speaker 1: even know what month it is, you know, like counting
Speaker 1: on fingers where it's August twenty, we are counting. Who
Speaker 1: needs a calculator? We're counting on fake fingers. Um, if
Speaker 1: I count on my fingers, I would have to count
Speaker 1: higher in terms of those major market averages, we're Doug,
Speaker 1: just talk about it. We are tim near our best
Speaker 1: levels of the session. We certainly are. Let's get right
Speaker 1: to the drive to the clothes with probably Ram portfolio
Speaker 1: manager at American Century Investments. It has two forty billion
Speaker 1: dollars in assets under management. Probably, it's great to have
Speaker 1: you back on the show. How are you doing well?
Speaker 1: Thanks for having me help us make sense of the week.
Speaker 1: That was because if we take a look at where
Speaker 1: we are today, even though and we just heard from Doug.
Speaker 1: The do, the SMP, and the NASTAC are all in
Speaker 1: the green and NASTAC you've been hired to the tune
Speaker 1: at one point two percent. If we looked at the
Speaker 1: last five days, we're in the red. The dolls down
Speaker 1: more than one percent, the SMP, fivn or down more
Speaker 1: than half a percentage point. How would you characterize the
Speaker 1: volatility that we saw? You know, um, and I'm going
Speaker 1: to point to the University of Michigan Index of Consumer Sentiment.
Speaker 1: Now that was a tough number. It was down thirteen
Speaker 1: and a half percent month on month and actually looked
Speaker 1: the same as April twenty, when we were right in
Speaker 1: the thick of COVID and before anybody had been vaccinated.
Speaker 1: And I'd like to borrow something the chief economist of
Speaker 1: the New Michigan Survey had to say, which is he
Speaker 1: called it a mix of reason and emotion. Reason because yes,
Speaker 1: the data variant has been a concern and what should
Speaker 1: have been a robust reopening has slowed down some on
Speaker 1: the margin, and so we're seeing some of that in
Speaker 1: the numbers. And then of course on the supply side,
Speaker 1: we have the chip shortages, labor shortages, we can talk
Speaker 1: about all those and then the emotion aspect of it.
Speaker 1: People were exuberant about being able to get out and
Speaker 1: do their things, get back into offices, and that balloon
Speaker 1: has been popped a little bit. So I would call
Speaker 1: this week, you know, similar to what Richard Curtain called it,
Speaker 1: which is a mix of reason and emotion. You know,
Speaker 1: people see the numbers. It's obviously not peak COVID, but
Speaker 1: you know, there are some concerns on the edge to
Speaker 1: feel like probably there is Main Street and then there's
Speaker 1: Wall Street. Because here we are at our hears of
Speaker 1: the session and it feels like we are shrugging off
Speaker 1: so much. Once again we have said, man, I wish
Speaker 1: I had a buck for every time we said dip
Speaker 1: fires today and yesterday. So how do you rash realies
Speaker 1: that gap between what some people are feeling on on
Speaker 1: Wall Street versus what some are feeling on Main Street. Um,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I would like to go back
Speaker 1: to kind of the reason with its emotional discussion here
Speaker 1: as well. Right, So if you you know, step back,
Speaker 1: Carol and look at the numbers. There's been so much
Speaker 1: stimulus in the system in the last year and a
Speaker 1: half that GDP is back to pre COVID levels, even
Speaker 1: though that's variable, right, different parts of the economy look
Speaker 1: a little bit different. But then we've done that with
Speaker 1: five point seven million lesser jobs. Now for the people
Speaker 1: that are that had to step away from the job market,
Speaker 1: that's a negative. But then somehow, you know, we've increased productivity.
Speaker 1: Maybe we just work better from home. Who even knows.
Speaker 1: But what has happened is, you know, the economy is
Speaker 1: back at the levels of pre COVID and it continues
Speaker 1: to march wrongly, especially because of the productivity gains we're
Speaker 1: seeing with the digital transformation and everybody has embraced it,
Speaker 1: and that's probably what you're seeing. The two sides of
Speaker 1: the coin, if you will, Well, one thing, I just
Speaker 1: say that to me like it's blowing my mind. Right,
Speaker 1: we are back to pre COURVID GDP levels with five
Speaker 1: point seven million fewer workers. So it makes me wonder
Speaker 1: our company is reassessing do we really need these workers? Well,
Speaker 1: that is a concern. What here's the thing, right, So
Speaker 1: if you assume a growing economy, then we are going
Speaker 1: to need people. Now. The other side is productivity means
Speaker 1: doing more with less, and that's less resources, including people,
Speaker 1: but a growing economy will absorb workers, and we are
Speaker 1: seeing that this is variable. If you are a tech worker,
Speaker 1: they just cannot find enough experts and AI your machine learning.
Speaker 1: But then there are other parts of the economy, especially
Speaker 1: lower weight jobs, that are struggle thing. And then the
Speaker 1: other thing, Carol, that you know, you and I can
Speaker 1: appreciate is uh, school openings are variable. Right, it's go
Speaker 1: back to school, But then what happens is once they
Speaker 1: get there, if there is one COVID patient in the school,
Speaker 1: then the school shuts down. And that has become a problem,
Speaker 1: especially for women getting back in the workforce, and a
Speaker 1: lot of them have just sat out. You know, it's
Speaker 1: a labor participation problem more than because there are plenty
Speaker 1: of jobs people companies are looking for people. It's just
Speaker 1: you know, some people cannot get into some reason, and
Speaker 1: some people are just not today not qualified. They probably
Speaker 1: want to go from macro to micro and get some
Speaker 1: of the stocks that you're keeping a close eye on,
Speaker 1: and why you are bullish on those. Let's start with Square,
Speaker 1: the company just weeks ago announcing that it would acquire
Speaker 1: After Pay for thirty three billion dollars. Why Square, well
Speaker 1: in the square has been one of those stocks that
Speaker 1: has two distinct ecosystems and they just have a product
Speaker 1: design ethos that somehow elevates products into not just network effects,
Speaker 1: you know, which we've come to expect in tech, but
Speaker 1: almost vitality. And why after pay they pay thirty three
Speaker 1: billion dollars for this Australia based business, more global now
Speaker 1: by now pay later, which is you know, pay back
Speaker 1: in four installments of six installments for installments. And here's
Speaker 1: the attraction, right, there are two distinct ecosystems, very successful,
Speaker 1: each on their own right, the seller and the cash
Speaker 1: app ecosystem, and this gives them a way to bridge
Speaker 1: the two um and the way and why why after
Speaker 1: pay and after pay you know, just we're serves the
Speaker 1: younger demographic pointed out that the average age is thirty three.
Speaker 1: It's mostly feebale. And then they are also a marketing
Speaker 1: lead mechanism. So one of the stats that I saw
Speaker 1: that blew my mind away is that you when someone
Speaker 1: comes into the after pay app, the seller can expect
Speaker 1: eight times lead conversion um, you know, compared to a
Speaker 1: Google Search lead. And then there's no credit risk to
Speaker 1: the seller and then they get a list in lift
Speaker 1: in average value. So and then the consumers like it
Speaker 1: too because it's an app that opens up new merchants
Speaker 1: to them. So it's completely complimentary as well. You know,
Speaker 1: get squared to go more international, more quickly, and more importantly,
Speaker 1: bring the two ecosystems together. And with companies you know
Speaker 1: that have a data d n A, that's just huge
Speaker 1: because they see every transaction and you know, there are
Speaker 1: so many other products that they can sell into. This
Speaker 1: just got about twenty seconds here. You also like Nike,
Speaker 1: well known brand, it's a eighteen percent so far this year.
Speaker 1: Just quickly, what's your thesis here, Nike? You know, just
Speaker 1: a very misunderstood digital transformation play. And they picked up
Speaker 1: what's called a triple double in seventeen and it sounds
Speaker 1: like an NBA game. So if they sit two types innovation,
Speaker 1: two times to speed, two times direct to consumer. So
Speaker 1: this is basically an app play of company that has
Speaker 1: gone from selling through department stores to selling direct to
Speaker 1: their consumer and then having it so well done that
Speaker 1: most of the they've really cut out the middlemanute percent
Speaker 1: of I mean a tot of their business. So that's
Speaker 1: the story there, and that's whys of feeling well two
Speaker 1: names that are certainly familiar to our audience. Great to
Speaker 1: break it down with you and also talk some of
Speaker 1: the macro macro outlook here Proba rom She's portfolio manager
Speaker 1: of American Century Investments and her fund, the Century American
Speaker 1: Century Focused Dynamic Growth Fund, is up just about in
Speaker 1: the past past one year, and it is consistently beat
Speaker 1: most of its peers in the past five years. Thanks
Speaker 1: for listening to Bloomberg Business Week. Download the podcast on iTunes, SoundCloud,
Speaker 1: or Bloomberg dot com, and you can also listen to
Speaker 1: our radio show at two pm Eastern on Bloomberg Radio
Speaker 1: or watch us on YouTube search Bloomberg Global News