Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet, as a production
Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative. I'm Bridget Tot and this
Speaker 1: is there Are No Girls on the Internet. This is
Speaker 1: There No Girls on the Internet, where we explore the
Speaker 1: intersection of technology, social media, and identity. Joey, we are
Speaker 1: so thrilled to have you back on the show.
Speaker 2: Hey, Bridget, it's going to be back. Happy Pride months.
Speaker 1: Happy Pride. Are you doing anything fun for Pride?
Speaker 3: Oh?
Speaker 4: God? What am I not doing?
Speaker 5: Yeah?
Speaker 2: I have a couple events that like friends are doing.
Speaker 2: I had my household through something last weekend, kind of
Speaker 2: kick off at the beginning of the month.
Speaker 4: So I'm busy. I'm out and about, you know.
Speaker 1: I'm glad to hear it. I'm still in COVID recovery mode,
Speaker 1: but I'm living vicariously through folks like you who are
Speaker 1: out having a good time. I am very.
Speaker 4: Well.
Speaker 1: I have to tell you, I feel like a new
Speaker 1: tech gripe of mine has just dropped. And that is
Speaker 1: maybe you've seen them, these seemingly wholesome but very obviously
Speaker 1: AI generated images. It'll be like the ones I've been
Speaker 1: seeing lately. Are It'll be these AI generated images of
Speaker 1: three older black people and the caption will be like, oh,
Speaker 1: these three triplets just turned a hundred, leave them some
Speaker 1: love for their birthday, and every single comment is like
Speaker 1: how beautiful, yay, like happy birthday? Love it.
Speaker 3: Have you seen this?
Speaker 2: I haven't seen that one, but I did see something
Speaker 2: yesterday where it was like it was like a food
Speaker 2: influencer like or publication account, and they were they did
Speaker 2: one of those things where it's like which picture are
Speaker 2: you based.
Speaker 4: On your birth month?
Speaker 2: Except it was all AI generated food like that was
Speaker 2: the prompt and it was kind of like wait, what,
Speaker 2: like why why did this? Like you couldn't have taken
Speaker 2: pictures of like actual cakes, like you're doing which AI
Speaker 2: generated cake are you?
Speaker 3: Like?
Speaker 4: I don't know, but yeah, it's it's weird.
Speaker 1: I am so sick of it, and honest, like the
Speaker 1: cake thing part of me needs to take a step
Speaker 1: back and be like, this is obviously, all things considered,
Speaker 1: it's pretty benign because people are using AI to do
Speaker 1: all kinds of things that are that are much more
Speaker 1: problematic and worrisome than what AI generated cake or are
Speaker 1: you or show these fake ninety year old elderly people
Speaker 1: some birthday love? But it just it feels like one
Speaker 1: additional small way that the Internet is becoming worse and
Speaker 1: worse and worse. And I think the thing that bugs
Speaker 1: me is seeing how much like obviously the people who
Speaker 1: do this are just trying to get easy engagement, and
Speaker 1: I guess part of me is like, well, they could
Speaker 1: be doing in worse ways, but the fact that there
Speaker 1: are people who seemingly like this and like they will
Speaker 1: actually be like, oh, I'm cake one or happy birthday,
Speaker 1: so they elder think it's.
Speaker 2: Like it's the normalizing of it, Like it's the normalizing
Speaker 2: that this is something that we're just going to be
Speaker 2: seeing on our feeds all the time. And I think,
Speaker 2: I mean, I do think, like I agree with you
Speaker 2: where it's like this is so benign compared to some
Speaker 2: of the other things that AI has been used for.
Speaker 2: But it's like, okay, yeah, it's almost like like normalizing
Speaker 2: the use of AI images, so then when it is
Speaker 2: used for more nefarious purposes, it's it kind of slides
Speaker 2: under the radar a little bit more easily cause we're
Speaker 2: so used to seeing these images all the time.
Speaker 4: Anyways, I think.
Speaker 2: That's exactly why that's my issue too. I mean, on
Speaker 2: top of the whole like copyright thing. I think that's
Speaker 2: my issue too with a lot of the like movie
Speaker 2: studios that are using like AI generated images or stuff
Speaker 2: for like there, Like there was just some like Marvel
Speaker 2: Show from I think last summer that came out that
Speaker 2: there was a whole scandal about how they used like
Speaker 2: AI for for like the opening credits, and it's like,
Speaker 2: that's part of the bigger issue is it's just normalizing this,
Speaker 2: the use of this technology to make these big things
Speaker 2: that you know could be used.
Speaker 4: In a bunch more nefarious way.
Speaker 1: Yes, there was a recent controversy over a Netflix true
Speaker 1: crime documentary called What Jennifer Did, about a young woman
Speaker 1: who spoiler alert if you can't tell from the title
Speaker 1: did something awful to her family, and in part of it,
Speaker 1: I assumed it.
Speaker 2: Was gonna be like Jennifer's Body.
Speaker 1: I wish, I wish the reading two, Oh my God,
Speaker 1: I am a justice for Jennifer's Body.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: I was on the right side of history on that one.
Speaker 1: But yeah, the movie used AI to generate what is
Speaker 1: what purport to be historical images of her or like
Speaker 1: archival images of her, and so in one of the
Speaker 1: images it's like, well, that's clearly AI generated, and especially
Speaker 1: for a documentary that is supposedly trying to show us
Speaker 1: something true, something real, something that happen to be using
Speaker 1: AI generated images without any kind of warning letting you
Speaker 1: know that this is that we've recreated this. Really, I
Speaker 1: think it brings up some ethical questions and I think
Speaker 1: it really comes back to what you just said, that
Speaker 1: these things might not be nefarious now, but because they
Speaker 1: are benign there, it helps it sort of normalize it. Right,
Speaker 1: So it helps it so like, oh, we shouldn't be
Speaker 1: asking questions when we see AI used for this, and
Speaker 1: so what happens when that use case is not so benign? Right,
Speaker 1: what happens when it's a more important use case? I
Speaker 1: think you really you've helped me understand why when I
Speaker 1: see malicious use of AI, I'm angry or whatever. But
Speaker 1: something about these like wholesome uses of it makes me
Speaker 1: even more angry. I don't know why. I'm like, I
Speaker 1: hate this even more. I think I think you really
Speaker 1: nailed it.
Speaker 2: I think it's the it's also the kind of collective
Speaker 2: like wait, wait, I thought we just like I thought
Speaker 2: we were at a point where we were like Hey, guys,
Speaker 2: let's think a little bit more critically about AI and
Speaker 2: whether we should be using it so casually. I thought
Speaker 2: we reached that point as a society, but I guess not. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I will say, I know this is awful. Another like
Speaker 2: this is one where there's a lot of bad things
Speaker 2: that can come from it. With those videos of I
Speaker 2: mean not the videos, the AI pictures of Trump getting arrested.
Speaker 1: I remember that. I'm going around.
Speaker 2: Recently, there's some new ones that were going around because
Speaker 2: of the ruling that we're kind of funny. Okay, objectively, yeah,
Speaker 2: I know. Objectively, I'm like, this is bad. This is
Speaker 2: bad that these inventures are out there, but they were
Speaker 2: kind of funny.
Speaker 1: I felt the same way about the first crap where
Speaker 1: it's like, ooh, I wouldn't I would have. I would
Speaker 1: have if only.
Speaker 4: Like it's just the idea of him like running down
Speaker 4: the street.
Speaker 1: Like god, yeah, can I only wish. So, speaking of
Speaker 1: stuff online not always being what it seems, we've got
Speaker 1: to talk about this huge news about the disinformation campaign
Speaker 1: out of Israel. So Israel organized a large scale disinformation
Speaker 1: campaign which used fake accounts and disinformation to target progressive
Speaker 1: activists and black members of Congress in the United States
Speaker 1: and Canada. Herrit's first reported on the existence of this
Speaker 1: operation way back in March, but now we have more
Speaker 1: details about how it worked and exactly who was behind it.
Speaker 1: They reported that it was launched after the start of
Speaker 1: the war in Gaza and it was intended to sway
Speaker 1: certain segments of the public on Israel's conduct. It really
Speaker 1: sounds like the point of this whole thing was to
Speaker 1: use social media to quote promote content that it's pro Israel,
Speaker 1: anti Palestinian, and anti Muslim, as well as disinformation about
Speaker 1: anti Semitism on American campuses. According to an investigation by
Speaker 1: the Fake Reporter Organization published this week.
Speaker 2: I will say the Fake Reporter Organization maybe not the
Speaker 2: best name.
Speaker 1: I know, but I was reading this, I was like
Speaker 1: a little confused. I was like, are they the fake reporters?
Speaker 2: Hello, I'm here from the Fake Reporter or like that
Speaker 2: sounds like it would feel like a bit but you
Speaker 2: know what, glad they're doing.
Speaker 4: The work that they do was that it's importing totally.
Speaker 1: So according to this reporting, this disinformation campaign came straight
Speaker 1: from the Israeli government. Parrot's reports that it was established
Speaker 1: by Israel's Diaspora Affairs Ministry, but it was run by
Speaker 1: a private organization for fear of it being exposed and
Speaker 1: like traced back to Israel. So how this whole thing
Speaker 1: worked is if they set up fake news websites with
Speaker 1: names like no Agenda or Unfold News, and then they
Speaker 1: make fake social media accounts on Twitter and Facebook that
Speaker 1: are kind of trying to seem like real people. It
Speaker 1: seems like maybe they didn't do a great job. We'll
Speaker 1: get to that in a moment. They would then use
Speaker 1: these accounts to amass followers and then push out these
Speaker 1: news stories. The news stories themselves on the websites that
Speaker 1: they were setting up, they would just steal and repurpose
Speaker 1: content from places like CNN and The New York Times
Speaker 1: reports that they were using chat gpt to generate many
Speaker 1: of the posts. The campaign also created three fake English
Speaker 1: language news sites featuring pro Israel articles. So something I
Speaker 1: found really interesting about this whole thing is that it
Speaker 1: sounds like why they were doing this, according to the reporting,
Speaker 1: was this understanding that perhaps Israel is like losing the
Speaker 1: social media war of public opinion. Herot's reports. Various Israeli
Speaker 1: officials say that the war in Gaza has exposed quote
Speaker 1: a great failure in Israel's hesebara, or public diplomacy. Despite
Speaker 1: the massive investment in different pr enterprises over the years,
Speaker 1: Israel has not been able to effectively cope with the
Speaker 1: flood of pro Palestinian messages on social media. Israel lacked
Speaker 1: the necessary digital assets to contend with what it called
Speaker 1: quote the pro Palestinian poison propaganda machine and to adequately
Speaker 1: publicize hamostrocities to defend the war in Gaza. So it
Speaker 1: just sounds like they were like people on social media
Speaker 1: are too pro Palestinian, so we have to make some
Speaker 1: fake accounts to see if that turns the tides.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And I mean I think in this situation too,
Speaker 2: like we've really seen some of the ways that social
Speaker 2: media can be.
Speaker 4: A really powerful tool for.
Speaker 2: Uh spreading misinformation and also like getting important information out there.
Speaker 4: Where I think a.
Speaker 2: Lot of this backlash and a lot of this kind
Speaker 2: of uh, A lot of the backlash to what Israel
Speaker 2: is doing is because we're getting these images that are
Speaker 2: out of Gaza and out of Rafa that are.
Speaker 4: You know, real awful images.
Speaker 2: A lot of us it's like the first time we're
Speaker 2: really witnessing this, like not firsthand, but I guess like
Speaker 2: through these actual images of what's happening, and they're like seriously,
Speaker 2: I just I'm sure people listening feel the same, but
Speaker 2: like I've seen some of literally the worst things I've
Speaker 2: ever seen in my life over the past year, uh,
Speaker 2: coming out of coming out of Rafa, and and that
Speaker 2: has power, Like those images have power. And I think
Speaker 2: the Israeli government and the Israeli Hasbara kind of machine
Speaker 2: has relied a lot on these images, like not getting
Speaker 2: out there and relied on kind of them being the
Speaker 2: primary drivers of what the narrative is. And we're seeing
Speaker 2: that start to fall apart. And you know, it makes
Speaker 2: sense if the reaction is gonna be to go to
Speaker 2: these extreme measures like creating fake support.
Speaker 4: I mean, this is and this has been happened.
Speaker 2: Like there was an image early on when there were
Speaker 2: a lot of these big protests that were happening in
Speaker 2: support of Palestinians. There was literally, I think image I
Speaker 2: remember it was going around of like a pro Israel
Speaker 2: protest that was entirely AI generated, Like it was a
Speaker 2: it was like a very obviously AI generated photo. And
Speaker 2: this was like early on, So yeah, I'm not surprised
Speaker 2: to hear this.
Speaker 4: Again.
Speaker 2: I think, like, as somebody who is a Jewish American
Speaker 2: who you know, a lot of my Judaism is rooted
Speaker 2: in a lot of like anti Zionists.
Speaker 4: Diaspora values.
Speaker 2: It's not surprising just see this happen, because this has
Speaker 2: been happening, and this, this kind of has been the
Speaker 2: direction that the Israeli state has been going, especially especially recently.
Speaker 1: And I think it goes back to a conversation you
Speaker 1: and I had about campus protests. How there's just I
Speaker 1: do feel like there's this underlying attitude that people could
Speaker 1: not possibly be watching what's going on and be basing
Speaker 1: their stances on what they're seeing, right, and so like,
Speaker 1: if young people on campuses are protesting in supportive Palestinians,
Speaker 1: it has to be TikTok influencing influencing them in some way.
Speaker 1: If people on social media are are not supportive of
Speaker 1: what Israel has been doing to Palestinians, it must like
Speaker 1: we need to get in there and like correct the record, right.
Speaker 2: I think a big kind of point that the Israeli
Speaker 2: government has relied on for a while is drawing the
Speaker 2: focus away from what is happening to the Palestinian and people,
Speaker 2: and instead of turning it into an issue of like,
Speaker 2: quote unquote Jewish safety, which it isn't. It is not
Speaker 2: an issue of Jewish safety to be murdering of billions
Speaker 2: and murdering children like obvious.
Speaker 4: That is so obviously not an equivalency.
Speaker 2: And again, I think going back to the campus protests
Speaker 2: very much like turning it into an issue of like, oh, well,
Speaker 2: Jewish students don't feel safe, that is not the case.
Speaker 4: That is a huge generalization.
Speaker 2: I'm sure there are some students out there that don't
Speaker 2: feel safe, but that is an individual issue. I personally
Speaker 2: have a lot of friends that are Jewish that have
Speaker 2: been involved with the protests. I know, like Jewish Voice
Speaker 2: or Peace has been a big organization that has a
Speaker 2: lot of chapters on college campuses that have been really
Speaker 2: involved with these protests. I think like it has been
Speaker 2: a very kind of important propaganda point for them to
Speaker 2: draw attention away from the real issue, which is, yes,
Speaker 2: these are students that are protesting human rights atrocities that
Speaker 2: they're witnessing every day through social media, through you know,
Speaker 2: family or friends that were on the ground there. Like
Speaker 2: just just the main thing is just driving that focus
Speaker 2: away when that yeah, that is the issue.
Speaker 4: It has nothing to do with.
Speaker 2: Like, honestly, it has nothing to do with me as
Speaker 2: a Jewish American. It has nothing to do with my
Speaker 2: other follow Jewish Americans. It has to do with what
Speaker 2: is clearly a human rights atrocity that is happening right now.
Speaker 1: So it's funny that you say this because the fake
Speaker 1: accounts that it's when you look at what they were
Speaker 1: saying and who they were targeting, the kind of messages
Speaker 1: they were putting out, is it is so clear that
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, we are trying to get the perspective,
Speaker 1: ship the perspective away from what is actually happening to Palestinians.
Speaker 1: It's like so clear. So when you look at the
Speaker 1: messages they were putting out, they had these different messages
Speaker 1: meant to appeal to different groups they were trying to target.
Speaker 1: They had the United Citizens for Canada site, which had
Speaker 1: multiple social media accounts and disseminated heavily Islamophobic material, including
Speaker 1: claims that Muslim immigrants were a threat to Canada and
Speaker 1: demanding a Shari estate. Another was the Arab Slave Trade site,
Speaker 1: which was copied almost entirely from Wikipedia and aimed at
Speaker 1: black Americans, trying to repeat the message that the Arabs
Speaker 1: had been slave traders in Africa. I actually really saw
Speaker 1: this messaging my like organically via social media and also
Speaker 1: repeated by people that I know like this. This was
Speaker 1: messaging that I will say, like anecdotally personally I saw
Speaker 1: sort of like breakthrough on social media a little bit.
Speaker 4: Yeah, that's crazy. And I will say.
Speaker 6: With that one too, that's wild because that is also
Speaker 6: an anti Semitic talking point been used by you know,
Speaker 6: other people on the right that if wanted to spread misinformation,
Speaker 6: like anti Semitic misinformation, has been saying that it was.
Speaker 2: Like Jewish people that were involved with the Strength that
Speaker 2: we're leading the Strength slave train and all that. So
Speaker 2: it's like, wow, okay, we can't even come up with
Speaker 2: our with another with another narrative. We're just gonna copy
Speaker 2: and paste it, but like switch it from Jewish people
Speaker 2: to Arab people, like we can't the Israeli state can't
Speaker 2: even come up with their own hate narratives now, Like yes, insane.
Speaker 1: So much of this stuff is so sloppy. That is
Speaker 1: something that I really like when I was reading about this,
Speaker 1: influenced campaign. I was like, y'all couldn't even like get that,
Speaker 1: get this, cause have there be consistency in this. So
Speaker 1: this one's my favorite. Yet another site was called Serenity Now,
Speaker 1: which branded itself as an anarchist and anti establishment group.
Speaker 1: It sought to convince young Americans to oppose the creation
Speaker 1: of a Palestinian state because states are man made structures
Speaker 1: and a Palestinian state would hurt the goals of the
Speaker 1: progressive movement.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, Serenity Now I really like brought me
Speaker 2: back to like my college organizing days, because I swear
Speaker 2: to god, there was like one dude who like this
Speaker 2: would be his talking.
Speaker 1: Oh I know that dude. Oh god, Oh my gosh.
Speaker 1: It's like you can be so left that you've got
Speaker 1: to swing back around to the other side, and now
Speaker 1: you're likeying a right wing point.
Speaker 2: Yeah, or you're like just too too deep in like
Speaker 2: the theory spiral that it's like you have not talked
Speaker 2: to a single other human being about like the realities
Speaker 2: of their Like oh my god.
Speaker 4: But yeah, that's I mean. But yeah.
Speaker 2: I on the other hand, the fact that they're going
Speaker 2: in that direction, I can read that and be like
Speaker 2: Oh my god, I recognized this, like line of thought.
Speaker 2: That just shows that this is like a decent propaganda technique.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, and.
Speaker 1: I think that. I think the technique of driving wedges
Speaker 1: and pitting marginalized groups against each other and pitting like
Speaker 1: anarchists progressive activist against like like like it's a it's
Speaker 1: a it's a time tested strategy. They also were targeting
Speaker 1: specific black elected officials. The operation focused on more than
Speaker 1: a dozen members of Congress who are black and Democrats.
Speaker 1: According to fake reporter, representative Richie Torres, a Democrat out
Speaker 1: of New York who's pretty outspoken about its pro as
Speaker 1: real views, was targeted in addition to Jeffreys and Warnock.
Speaker 1: So Some of the fake accounts would respond to Richie
Speaker 1: Torres's posts on Twitter commenting on anti semitism on college
Speaker 1: campuses and in major US cities. In response to a
Speaker 1: December eighth post on Twitter by Torres about fire safety,
Speaker 1: one fake account replied harmas is perpetrating the conflict. The
Speaker 1: posts included a hashtag that said Jews are being persecuted.
Speaker 1: Over On Facebook, the fake accounts posted on Jeffrey's public
Speaker 1: page asking if you had seen a report about the
Speaker 1: United Nations allegedly employing members of Hamas in Gaza. So
Speaker 1: it is really fascinating to me to see how they
Speaker 1: were targeting black folks in specific. Like it reminds me
Speaker 1: that we often see like foreign influence campaigns that target
Speaker 1: black people specifically, and part of me wonders if they
Speaker 1: just see our community as like less critical or like
Speaker 1: more easily swayed. That is complete like bs, but it
Speaker 1: makes me wonder if like that's how they see us
Speaker 1: as easily swayed, easily cajoled, easily influenced, and so like
Speaker 1: that's why they target us, whether or not that's true.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean I wouldn't. I mean I wouldn't be surprised.
Speaker 2: And like we're talking about like Israel is legally in
Speaker 2: apartheized state, like it is the Israeli government like runs
Speaker 2: on a racist sideology.
Speaker 4: I would not be surprised if that were the case.
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like when I was reading this, I was like,
Speaker 1: this feels anti black, even though I can't exactly name
Speaker 1: why that is, it feels anti black to me. I'll
Speaker 1: get back to you on on the why this I
Speaker 1: feel it. So I should say it sounds like they
Speaker 1: did not do a great job of this influence campaign.
Speaker 1: In at least two instances, accounts with profile photos of
Speaker 1: black men would then post about being middle aged Jewish women.
Speaker 1: On one hundred and eighteen posts in which the fake
Speaker 1: account shared pro Israel articles, the same sentence appeared, quote
Speaker 1: I gotta reevaluate my opinions due to this new information,
Speaker 1: which like, that's so someone trying to sound like a
Speaker 1: black person but like getting it wrong. And this is
Speaker 1: why I always say, if somebody is on the Internet
Speaker 1: purporting to be a black person, but the way that
Speaker 1: they're speaking or however, it just sounds off your sobidy
Speaker 1: senses should be tingling.
Speaker 4: Oh man, I can't even do their racism right.
Speaker 1: Exactly exactly.
Speaker 3: Let's take a quick break. Ed are back.
Speaker 1: So Facebook has now removed these fake profiles. Fake Reporter's
Speaker 1: executive director Achia Shots told Herod's that quote running the
Speaker 1: foreign influence campaign against American lawmakers is amateurish, irresponsible an
Speaker 1: anti democratic. Fake Reporter has called on the Israeli government
Speaker 1: to take steps against foreign influence campaigns. He added, the
Speaker 1: Israeli government is expected to refrain from taking similar actions,
Speaker 1: especially ones at target israel Significant democratic partners. The money
Speaker 1: spent on this campaign would have been better spent in
Speaker 1: protecting the Israeli public from foreign intervention. And that is
Speaker 1: a great point that I don't understand how I want
Speaker 1: to paying somebody, paying a firm to run a bunch
Speaker 1: of fake accounts and make a bunch of fake news sites.
Speaker 1: Is making people in Israel more safe?
Speaker 4: Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, it's like the same It's the
Speaker 2: same thing the US does where it's like, God, I
Speaker 2: remember there was some tweet a while ago about like,
Speaker 2: you know, the brave soldiers like keeping our countries or
Speaker 2: like protecting our freedom and.
Speaker 4: Somebody who's like, what what's my freedom doing in the
Speaker 4: Middle East? Like they're protecting our freedom like on the
Speaker 4: other side of the.
Speaker 2: World, and like, I yeah, it's like the same thing
Speaker 2: where it's like oh wow, Like once you start digging deeper,
Speaker 2: I think into a lot of these like very militant
Speaker 2: kind of campaigns, it's very clear that what they say
Speaker 2: they're doing is not what they're actually doing.
Speaker 1: Right, Well, that's exactly the point. And I should add
Speaker 1: that when we talk about these kinds of influence campaigns,
Speaker 1: and it's always important to note that they are not
Speaker 1: generally very successful in their intended impacts. It sounds like
Speaker 1: this one did not have the biggest impact. Both Facebook
Speaker 1: and Open ais that the campaign did not have widespread impact.
Speaker 1: The fake accounts did accumulate more than forty thousand followers
Speaker 1: across Twitter, Facebook, and Instagram. However, many of those followers
Speaker 1: may have been bought, and it did not generate a
Speaker 1: meaningfully large audience. But I think it is still worth
Speaker 1: talking about that, you know, even if it wasn't particularly
Speaker 1: effective in swaying the communities it was targeting, it's still
Speaker 1: important to note that, like this day kind of thing
Speaker 1: is going on, and so when you are using social media,
Speaker 1: it's just kind of like what we were talking about
Speaker 1: with the AI images. Like I think that this kind
Speaker 1: of thing is becoming more normalized, and that it creates
Speaker 1: an Internet landscape where we can't just count on getting
Speaker 1: authentic information or content from real humans. You never know
Speaker 1: what's going on, and I just think it makes us
Speaker 1: all less safe and less secure when our Internet landscape
Speaker 1: is just a wash in these kinds of media manipulation
Speaker 1: campaigns exactly.
Speaker 4: And I mean it goes back to the whole conversation.
Speaker 2: About X, right, now and how it hurts me to
Speaker 2: call it X, but you know, I'm talking negatively about it,
Speaker 2: so I will infer to its X.
Speaker 4: It's like your child I don't know or whatever.
Speaker 1: Like I was just thinking that, like when I when
Speaker 1: when I'm purporting on something that X that they've done bad,
Speaker 1: I'm like, it's X. When it's something that's like kind
Speaker 1: of okay, I'm like on Twitter. Yeah, it's like when
Speaker 1: I when I mentioned behave, I'm like, oh, your child
Speaker 1: has skipped school. My mom would always say my dad right.
Speaker 2: But yeah, but it's it's the whole bigger conversation about
Speaker 2: X right now and how it uses to be, you know,
Speaker 2: with still having lots of flaws, but it used to
Speaker 2: be a place where you could get information, you could
Speaker 2: get first hand accounts, you could get all these different
Speaker 2: kind of journalists and experts like weighing on things, and
Speaker 2: now it's just kind of turned into like bots following
Speaker 2: thoughts and like sharing misinformation and.
Speaker 4: Like bots hyping each other up.
Speaker 5: Like it's like not even I don't, like I don't
Speaker 5: even feel like I'm like communicating with real people when
Speaker 5: I open like Twitter now, like I'm just like, oh,
Speaker 5: I'm just seeing it's like content that is either super
Speaker 5: not relevant to what I care about, or yeah, or
Speaker 5: it's just this kind of like nightmare of like bots
Speaker 5: and artificial like AI generated stuff and whatever.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I feel the same way. And I should say,
Speaker 1: like in our life, we were just talking about disinformation
Speaker 1: campaigns being run by other countries, which we talk about
Speaker 1: a lot when we talk about medium manipulation online, but
Speaker 1: we should also keep in mind that it's not always
Speaker 1: about another country like Israel or Russia trying to manipulate us.
Speaker 1: In addition to all the bots, there are just still
Speaker 1: fashion and blood humans out there on Twitter spreading misinformation.
Speaker 1: And a new study is actually shedding light on who
Speaker 1: is that that is on Twitter, and I am sorry
Speaker 1: to say that it is a lot of women in
Speaker 1: their late fifties, specifically, so Ours Technica reports that there's
Speaker 1: this new study by researchers Shahar Barbie Bartov, Brianni Swier Thompson,
Speaker 1: and Near Grinberg that was released this week that looks
Speaker 1: at a large panel of Twitter accounts that are associated
Speaker 1: with US based voters. So it identifies that a kind
Speaker 1: of shockingly small handful of misinformation super spreaders is what
Speaker 1: they're calling them, which represents just zero point three percent
Speaker 1: of the accounts, but are responsible for sharing eighty percent
Speaker 1: of Twitter's links to fake news or unreliable news sources.
Speaker 1: So that means a lot less people than you might
Speaker 1: think are responsible for the spread of the bulk of
Speaker 1: misinformation from unreliable sources on Twitter. It really just does
Speaker 1: sound like this is people who are like power sharers
Speaker 1: on Twitter. According to the study, on an average day
Speaker 1: on Twitter at this time, only seven percent of the
Speaker 1: news story shareed linked to sites prone to publishing misinformation,
Speaker 1: but super spreaders ended up accounting for most of these
Speaker 1: for two reasons. One is if they shared more newslengths
Speaker 1: than anybody else on the platform an average of sixteen
Speaker 1: a day compared to less than one from the random sampling.
Speaker 1: And most of the time these people are just like
Speaker 1: smashing that retweet button like nobody's business. The study found
Speaker 1: that three quarters of these super spreaders their contact was
Speaker 1: just retweets. So you might be wondering, like, who are
Speaker 1: these people? Well, Ours Technica says they are kind of
Speaker 1: like our aunties and our moms. There are women in
Speaker 1: their late fifties. Ours Technical reports that the super spreaders
Speaker 1: are sixty percent more likely to be female. They're also
Speaker 1: a little bit older, on average fifty eight years old,
Speaker 1: nearly twenty years older than the sample group as a whole.
Speaker 1: And while much of the misinformation about the election largely
Speaker 1: circulated within Republican circles, only sixty four percent of the
Speaker 1: super spreaders were registered Republicans. Nearly twenty percent were registered
Speaker 1: as Democrats. Well, it is like ladies in their late fifties.
Speaker 1: But I actually have a theory on what's going on.
Speaker 1: This is just my theory. This is not in the study.
Speaker 1: I think it's this sounds like peak auntie behavior to me,
Speaker 1: like spending, you know what I mean?
Speaker 4: Yeah, like that, it's like like just like expend.
Speaker 1: Yes, Like when I think about how some of my
Speaker 1: the women in my life who are in their late fifties,
Speaker 1: how they roll online. The fact that it's a lot
Speaker 1: of retweets really speaks to me. I'm like, Oh, that's
Speaker 1: my aunties. They love they they love us share people
Speaker 1: of our of my generation and maybe your generation. Joey,
Speaker 1: you've had some sense of like if you went to
Speaker 1: your Facebook page and you ha had shared a hundred
Speaker 1: things in one day, your friends might be like, are
Speaker 1: they okay, oh yeah, but I don't think that aunties
Speaker 1: have the same vibe.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I like fairly open Facebook anymore for
Speaker 2: this reason because it is mostly like, yeah, a lot
Speaker 2: of the older people in my family sharing a lot
Speaker 2: of these articles that I'm like, I don't even have
Speaker 2: the energy to keep getting annoyed at like every single.
Speaker 4: Piece of misinformation.
Speaker 2: But yeah, it is like, I mean, Facebook has kind
Speaker 2: of just become this like.
Speaker 4: Fear of yeah, we're people. Okay, So this might snick
Speaker 4: wing be here, this might sound a little bit of astrautge,
Speaker 4: but I this is why.
Speaker 2: And on one day, Pridget that I feel like I
Speaker 2: come on to do a bigger episode about this. But
Speaker 2: I I am a little bit critical of the sort
Speaker 2: of the through lack of a better word, kind of
Speaker 2: structure that we have right now on Instagram or a
Speaker 2: lot of people are their activism or what they're doing
Speaker 2: to raise awareness is just like sharing a lot of
Speaker 2: stuff on their story. And I do this too, and
Speaker 2: like we've talked about that, like, I mean, we all
Speaker 2: kind of do it, and I think there are a
Speaker 2: lot of benefits and there is something about especially if
Speaker 2: you're sharing like kind of going back to the other story,
Speaker 2: like sharing stuff about you know, fund raising or miss
Speaker 2: or or debunking misinformation or like there are there are
Speaker 2: important stuff to be sharing.
Speaker 4: I do that too. But that being said, I think
Speaker 4: i've kind of I'm.
Speaker 2: Realizing like I think this is like our our two
Speaker 2: generations kind of version of this is like the spiral
Speaker 2: of people just sharing a lot of stuff in their
Speaker 2: story because it speaks to that and obviously it's something
Speaker 2: that like speaks to them. But this is what makes
Speaker 2: me nervous, is I feel like we are now seeing
Speaker 2: with Facebook and kind of the like Boomer gen X generation,
Speaker 2: like how that goes in a negative direction. I'm a
Speaker 2: little bit worried that we're like setting us helps up
Speaker 2: for a similar thing to happen.
Speaker 4: But yeah, I agree, I do.
Speaker 2: I think this is like it's just it's the gossip
Speaker 2: like expanded on a on a world stage.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we have to do an episode about the dynamics
Speaker 1: of Instagram share Instagram being used as a place to
Speaker 1: share information. What I always say is just remember anybody
Speaker 1: can get a Cannavas subscription, like just because yeah, just
Speaker 1: because I have a Canvas subscription, I have put together
Speaker 1: a few Canada infographics in my day. I am I am,
Speaker 1: I am, I am a cog in this system. I'm
Speaker 1: calling myself out. But just remember, just because it's a
Speaker 1: slick looking graphic with good colors and it's a carousel
Speaker 1: on Instagram, anybody can get a canvas subscription. They they
Speaker 1: don't like have to pass a test or anything. So
Speaker 1: we should always remember that when we're when we're using
Speaker 1: social media in general and deciding what to share.
Speaker 4: Huh, yeah, definitely.
Speaker 2: And I mean last week you did the story about
Speaker 2: the the all eyes on rough image that there was
Speaker 2: sort of so backlash that for that same reason, and
Speaker 2: I kind of was in the same boat with you
Speaker 2: where I had shared it originally and I kind of
Speaker 2: was like, Okay, maybe not like that.
Speaker 4: Actually, like I understand a lot of the reasons our people.
Speaker 2: Are upset about this, but I think that was like
Speaker 2: a perfect example where it was just like there was
Speaker 2: so much like back and forth about like what we
Speaker 2: should be doing.
Speaker 4: And then it like to get out to the point
Speaker 4: where I was kind of like, what even is the
Speaker 4: point of this? It's like what even like I don't know.
Speaker 2: I yeah, I one day I'll do a figure episode
Speaker 2: about that.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I kind of got it. Sounds like we had
Speaker 1: a very similar trajectory with the all eyes on a
Speaker 1: Ratha Ai generated an image we talked about in last
Speaker 1: week's round up. But yeah, we're to the end of it.
Speaker 1: I was like, what, like, like I had overthought it
Speaker 1: to a point where I'm like, what even, Like why
Speaker 1: did I even feel like I should share it? Like
Speaker 1: it just like you, when you really pull apart the
Speaker 1: reasonings on social media, you can get so granular where
Speaker 1: the focus gets so lost, and you know, initially I'm like, oh, yeah,
Speaker 1: if something comes across my stories about Palestine that speaks
Speaker 1: to me and I feel like might speak to somebody else,
Speaker 1: I'll share it. And then it's like but but with
Speaker 1: that image, is like, well why why why did that?
Speaker 1: What am I hoping to accomplish? What's the end goal?
Speaker 4: Right?
Speaker 2: I'm in the same boat where I kind of have
Speaker 2: like stopped sharing a lot of stuff for it. Like
Speaker 2: I think early on, I was kind of like I
Speaker 2: felt like I should be sharing this stuff constantly because
Speaker 2: I had a regional point where I kind of need
Speaker 2: to step back and be like is this productive? Like
Speaker 2: this is what I'm doing actually productive or because and again,
Speaker 2: like this is a different situation obviously, like this this
Speaker 2: story is about misinformation specifically, but like going back to
Speaker 2: this story, a big point of misinformation and these kind
Speaker 2: of campaigns is just kind of creating chaos and putting
Speaker 2: a lot of information out there, so like you don't
Speaker 2: even really know.
Speaker 4: What's true anymore.
Speaker 2: So even if it's something where I'm like, I'm sharing
Speaker 2: images that are coming from trusted news sources or whatever
Speaker 2: that I know are real, is there any benefit of me,
Speaker 2: Like what is actually going to be beneficial is that
Speaker 2: I'm not just posting stuff on my story to show
Speaker 2: that I'm paying attention to show that I'm like staying
Speaker 2: with it, or like is this actually meant to like
Speaker 2: share resources or share something that I think is important
Speaker 2: that people might not know otherwise, or is it just
Speaker 2: kind of creating more noise.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we we have to do a longer conversation about Yeah,
Speaker 1: these are these are things that.
Speaker 4: These are I have a lot of thoughts.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I will say We're definitely gonna do.
Speaker 3: More.
Speaker 7: After a quick break, let's get right back into it.
Speaker 1: So we have to talk about this. I guess I
Speaker 1: guess I'll call it transphobic dating app la app. Have
Speaker 1: you heard of this?
Speaker 2: I have not, but I just see the lesbian dating app,
Speaker 2: which I feel like we've tried.
Speaker 4: To do this so many times.
Speaker 1: Its yeah, strap in for this one. So app is
Speaker 1: an app that bills itself as being for lesbians to
Speaker 1: meet other lesbians, but with a twist. They're using facial
Speaker 1: recognition technology in an attempt to keep trans women off
Speaker 1: of the platform. Pink News reports that app has been
Speaker 1: created by a gender the gender critical campaigner Jenny and
Speaker 1: says it will scan a prospective users face via their smartphone,
Speaker 1: allegedly being able to text if that person is CYS
Speaker 1: or trans with ninety nine percent accuracy. First of all,
Speaker 1: I have you. I'll say that's over and over and
Speaker 1: over again. Complete bs. That's a lie, No way, no how,
Speaker 1: I'll pause there. What are your thoughts?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Also, okay, I'm turfs are so fucking goofy. I'd like,
Speaker 2: especially like lesbian and by women that are terfed because
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, like this is my issue. All of the
Speaker 2: obvious like things aside, like the lesbian community and like
Speaker 2: the queer women in general, like even if you're not trans,
Speaker 2: there's a lot of like different There's a whole history
Speaker 2: of like different varying like gender expressions. I I'm somebody
Speaker 2: who's like transvasculine, I present like I I kind of
Speaker 2: look like a twelve year old boy.
Speaker 4: I don't know, I've I've talked about.
Speaker 2: This before, but it's always like the thing too where
Speaker 2: I think like TERFs when whenever it's like the bathroom issue,
Speaker 2: when they like like hyper fixing the bathroom issue. I
Speaker 2: have gotten weird looks in public bathrooms before because people
Speaker 2: see me, and especially if I'm wearing a mask, like
Speaker 2: I have short hair, and I'm like, you know, i'm
Speaker 2: our masculine presenting. I'm not like I'm pretty like introgynous looking,
Speaker 2: where like people will give me weird looks and I'm like,
Speaker 2: I know you think that I am trans in the
Speaker 2: other direction, and that's why you're being weird to me.
Speaker 6: But this just proves that your whole point is stupid
Speaker 6: because under.
Speaker 2: That logic, like I should be the like quote unquote
Speaker 2: like women that you're trying to protect you right, and like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, it's that.
Speaker 4: Is so insane. I'm also yeah, the idea of being
Speaker 4: able to like detect if somebody's trans based on like.
Speaker 1: Bullshit not true, that's such bullshit, Like oh my gosh,
Speaker 1: oh my god. It like I mean, I was when
Speaker 1: I was thinking about this earlier, I was like, dang
Speaker 1: transphobes and turfs, in service of their transphobia, they will
Speaker 1: get taken by charlatan's. And now I'm like, oh, and
Speaker 1: it's like tech charlatans who are purporting that technology can
Speaker 1: be used in a way that it can't be and
Speaker 1: like to your point about how like this kind of
Speaker 1: being like, oh well, our technology can tell who's this
Speaker 1: or who's that. The scholar Alejandra Carrabello made a great
Speaker 1: point on thread saying that basically, you are trusting technology
Speaker 1: that we already know is falty to say that Kim
Speaker 1: Petras isn't a woman, or that Late Ashley isn't a
Speaker 1: man based on a photo. There is no machine learning
Speaker 1: model in existence that could do this consistently and accurately
Speaker 1: based on a photo. Like people like, it doesn't work
Speaker 1: that way. People are complex, and it's wild to me
Speaker 1: that people would be making the claim that facial recognition
Speaker 1: technology can do this. It absolutely cannot. I cannot stress
Speaker 1: this enough. And again there are so many reasons why
Speaker 1: this is a stupid, terrible idea transphobia aside, Like we know,
Speaker 1: fatial cognition technology is really faulty. It routinely misidentifies black
Speaker 1: CIS women as men. Shout out to doctor Joe Bolomwuini
Speaker 1: for her gender shades work about this, and yeah, it's
Speaker 1: like so if you actually use this technology, you would
Speaker 1: definitely be casting out the very people that you say
Speaker 1: are the demographic that you want. Like it doesn't make
Speaker 1: any sense.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and like you said with like there is a
Speaker 2: whole history of like how this is tied to racism
Speaker 2: and how this is tied to a lot of like
Speaker 2: like this feels like we're trying to do eugenics again,
Speaker 2: like just in a different form. But like it is
Speaker 2: so weird, and yeah, like gender, you know when people
Speaker 2: say gender is the performance, gender is like you know,
Speaker 2: all the fucking Jude Butler's.
Speaker 4: Work is all about this, Like it very much is
Speaker 4: like basically yeah, like you're able to. This is the
Speaker 4: whole point of drags.
Speaker 2: You can you can mess with gender, you can you
Speaker 2: can present different ways and it, I god, this is.
Speaker 1: Just such a weird.
Speaker 4: This is just such a shit show, like what the hell.
Speaker 1: It really is, and like, yeah, I mean there are
Speaker 1: days like my on my own gender journey. There are
Speaker 1: days where I am like rocking straight androgyny, and there
Speaker 1: are days where I'm like, oh, I'm gonna like them
Speaker 1: up because I want to or need to for some reason,
Speaker 1: Like the idea that a machine learning app would be
Speaker 1: able to zoom in on the particulars of that is.
Speaker 1: It's just it's just not how it works. And I
Speaker 1: think your point is a good one about how it's
Speaker 1: like it's a good reminder that all this stuff is connected,
Speaker 1: that their transphobia is also anti blackness. It's like it's
Speaker 1: all it's like one big bag of awful.
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, yeah, And I the same.
Speaker 2: I mean, like I I've done a total of one
Speaker 2: drag performance in my life.
Speaker 4: I would love to do more, but.
Speaker 2: I but I did, like you know, I'm drag was
Speaker 2: like wearing a wing and I did all my makeup
Speaker 2: and stuff, and I like my friends did not recognize me, like.
Speaker 4: I was a completely different person. And then also like
Speaker 4: when I went out and was like walking.
Speaker 2: Down the street, like people just assumed I was like
Speaker 2: a super fam like sis.
Speaker 4: Woman, Like it's all, yeah, it's all very superficial.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I did want to keep it really real
Speaker 1: for a second, which is that I believe just having
Speaker 1: just being a person, a woman, a SIS woman, who
Speaker 1: is out there on who's been on a few apps, whatever, whatever,
Speaker 1: the real threat to women on a lesbian dating app
Speaker 1: is not from trans people. It is SIS men looking
Speaker 1: to set up threesomes. I think, like, if you were
Speaker 1: gonna fall out one section of like, well, that's the
Speaker 1: real problem. It's gotta be them.
Speaker 4: Nope, Oh god, Okay.
Speaker 2: So I know in the past I have been defending
Speaker 2: dating apps in general on this podcast.
Speaker 4: I will say I've.
Speaker 2: Had some really weird hinge messages over the last couple
Speaker 2: of months. But I need to do an episode where
Speaker 2: I just read through all the weird shit that oh
Speaker 2: yes please because OsO Okay, So I get like, as
Speaker 2: I mentioned, I'm trans, like I I do not date
Speaker 2: straight men.
Speaker 4: I date men.
Speaker 2: I'm bisexual like I date people of all genders, but
Speaker 2: I don't date straight people period.
Speaker 4: I have that in my hinge bio. Some of the
Speaker 4: weirdest like I.
Speaker 2: Had a man I'm both the most recent one that
Speaker 2: I cannot stop thinking about when somebody messaged me. This
Speaker 2: man messaged me and was like, well, am I am
Speaker 2: I straight? If I like being the little spoon And.
Speaker 1: I was like what.
Speaker 2: Oh, and that's like one of the milder ones.
Speaker 4: I know.
Speaker 2: One day I like, literally, I've just started saving them
Speaker 2: because I like, I was like, I had a moment
Speaker 2: where I was like, maybe this is unethical, but then
Speaker 2: I was like, these men.
Speaker 4: Are sending me these send this prompted like what is up?
Speaker 4: Or like I'll get a lot of the like well
Speaker 4: maybe I'm not straight because I think you're hot.
Speaker 1: I'm like, yeah, let's.
Speaker 4: Unpack that, like what the hell? Yeah, anyways, I agree
Speaker 4: with that sentiment. The the the problem is sis straight men.
Speaker 4: The problem is sis.
Speaker 2: Men looking for the suns, looking to be creepy, looking
Speaker 2: to be weird.
Speaker 4: This should be common sense.
Speaker 1: But you know it's them, them, they're the problem. There's
Speaker 1: them straight men.
Speaker 4: Yeah, oh my god, speaking.
Speaker 1: Of straight men being problematic, I guess I don't know
Speaker 1: that this next story only involves straight men, but you know,
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a leap and say that there's probably
Speaker 1: a lot of them all. Yeah, historically and historically right,
Speaker 1: So that is this horrible landlord scheme. So we got
Speaker 1: to talk about Real Page, which is the quote property
Speaker 1: management software company that has been accused of helping landlords
Speaker 1: orchestrate a price fixing scam among large corporate landlords by
Speaker 1: algorithmically predicting the highest possible rents that landlords can get
Speaker 1: away with charging tenants. So these people are like scum
Speaker 1: bags of the highest order. Even reading this story, I
Speaker 1: was like, these people are not good people. Listen to
Speaker 1: how pro Publica reported on how they talked about their
Speaker 1: rent hiking technology back in October during a convention. Never
Speaker 1: before have we seen these numbers, said Jay Parsons, a
Speaker 1: vice president of Real Page, as convention goers wandered by
Speaker 1: apartment rents had recently shot up by as much as
Speaker 1: fourteen point five percent, he said in a video touting
Speaker 1: the company's services. Turning to his colleague, Parsons asked, what
Speaker 1: role has a software played. I think it's driving it,
Speaker 1: quite honestly, answered Andrew Bowen, another Real Page executive. As
Speaker 1: a property manager, very few of us would be willing
Speaker 1: to actually raise rents double digits within a single month
Speaker 1: by doing it manually. So they're basically just like bragging, like,
Speaker 1: oh yeah, we raised this. This technology helps you raise
Speaker 1: rents and ways you never thought. You didn't think that
Speaker 1: that family with small children and a single mom would
Speaker 1: pay this much. You might be wrong. You should raise
Speaker 1: their rent and see.
Speaker 4: Oh my god, just what the hell it's bad.
Speaker 1: So, according to biz Now, Real Pages System, which provides
Speaker 1: rental price recommendations based on real time data from landlords,
Speaker 1: is alleged to be a key tool in manipulating the
Speaker 1: rental market. The firm's influence covers seventy percent of multifamily
Speaker 1: apartment buildings and unpacks sixteen million units nationwide. So this
Speaker 1: is very much like a coordinated scheme. Landlords are encouraged
Speaker 1: to adopt Real Pages price and recommendations, a practice that
Speaker 1: they follow eighty to ninety percent of the time. This
Speaker 1: coordinated approach reduces the availability of rental units, driving up prices.
Speaker 1: One of the architects of Real Pages System reportedly stated
Speaker 1: that the aim is to prevent landlords from undervaluing their properties,
Speaker 1: ensuring consistently higher rates across the board.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's the real problem here, it's landlords under yeah,
Speaker 2: doing their property.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, the poor landlords. Won't someone think about
Speaker 1: the land properties that have been under So if the
Speaker 1: majority of landlords in a single area are all using
Speaker 1: this this pricing tool, it kind of feels like a
Speaker 1: coordinated price fixing scam, right, which you would think should
Speaker 1: be illegal. Right. Well, last week, the FBI did a
Speaker 1: surprise raid on the Atlanta headquarters of Courtland Management, marking
Speaker 1: a significant escalation and a criminal anti trust investigation of
Speaker 1: an Apartment of Justice into allegations of a nationwide conspiracy
Speaker 1: to artificially inflate apartment rents. The implications of this probe
Speaker 1: are far reaching, potentially affecting millions of renters across the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah, surprising, Like you know, moment where I'm supporting the
Speaker 2: FBI here because this is a real I live in
Speaker 2: New York. Like I sometimes if I'm feeling particularly you know,
Speaker 2: like getting in a depressive spiral about the state of
Speaker 2: the world, I'll just think about the fact that it's
Speaker 2: like it is so weird, how it's.
Speaker 4: Just completely NORMALI is that.
Speaker 2: I, Like, I don't know anybody who isn't constantly in
Speaker 2: like a state of just like not stable, like not
Speaker 2: having super stable housing because you don't know when your
Speaker 2: rent's gonna go up, or if like it's already so
Speaker 2: insanely expensive to live here, and then they're constantly raising
Speaker 2: prices and all of the buildings are kind.
Speaker 4: Of also like awful too.
Speaker 2: Like the building that I live in has like a
Speaker 2: billion fucking problems that they like never respond to, and
Speaker 2: they're still like trying to raise rent for the next
Speaker 2: like you know cycle of our our lease and all
Speaker 2: of that, and I you know, it's it is a
Speaker 2: huge problem and it's not something that should be normalized,
Speaker 2: and it's not something that should just be like accepted
Speaker 2: as like, oh it is the way it is like that,
Speaker 2: like people should be able to live and exist and
Speaker 2: you know, have the shelter because that's an important part
Speaker 2: of life.
Speaker 1: But yeah, yeah, and you're right, like it really is
Speaker 1: deeply impacting renters. In Atlanta, for instance, this raid happened.
Speaker 1: Software driven pricing affects eighty one percent of multifamily rental units.
Speaker 1: Biznow reports that since twenty sixteen, rencident Atlanta have surged
Speaker 1: by eighty percent, despite rising vacancy rates that would typically
Speaker 1: result in lower rents. The widespread adoption of real pages
Speaker 1: pricing recommendations by several landlords between twenty fifteen and twenty seventeen,
Speaker 1: followed by Real Pages acquisition of its main rival lease
Speaker 1: rent Option in twenty seventeen, has given the company unprecedented
Speaker 1: control over rental pricing. So I'm with you, like, this
Speaker 1: is a bit of a weird stance for me, but
Speaker 1: I was like, I'm glad they got raided. I'm glad
Speaker 1: it was a surprise raid. I hope it was, Like
Speaker 1: you know, I would have loved to have been doing
Speaker 1: a ride along and like wearing one of the FBI
Speaker 1: jackets and like aviator glasses, kicking indoors and like bust
Speaker 1: in the heads of these guys. Like I just think
Speaker 1: these people are scumbags. And I hate that when we
Speaker 1: think about technology that this is the use case that
Speaker 1: a lot of people will go for, Like how can
Speaker 1: we use it to extract and squeeze and exploit people?
Speaker 1: And I hate it so like the algorithmic pricing is
Speaker 1: a racket that prays on us renters. And yeah, I
Speaker 1: just think that when we think about crime and the
Speaker 1: way that crime and technology intersect, I don't like the
Speaker 1: idea of bad facial recognition being being used to misidentify shoplifters.
Speaker 1: This is the kind of tech enabled crime that is
Speaker 1: impacting more people, right, Like we should be talking about this,
Speaker 1: This should be big news. Yeah, I'm sure somebody listening
Speaker 1: is like, wow, bridget Todd show for the FBI. Who knew?
Speaker 4: I got it.
Speaker 2: It's like one of the the It's the like one
Speaker 2: in a million times where it's like, oh my god,
Speaker 2: the justice system working the way it's supposed to. We'll see,
Speaker 2: We'll feel like, we'll see, we'll see. I guess it's
Speaker 2: like the like the TV show version of the FBI
Speaker 2: where you're like, wow, yeah, they're I don't know, I
Speaker 2: feel the same like cautious cautious is to the f Yeah,
Speaker 2: I guess in this case. But yeah, once again, the
Speaker 2: problem is capitalism. How how this technology is used, How
Speaker 2: this technology is used not to make our lives easier
Speaker 2: but just to help, you know, select few people.
Speaker 4: Make a little bit more money from from the rest
Speaker 4: of our misery.
Speaker 1: Exactly. Okay, so my last question for you is are
Speaker 1: you familiar with the K pop group New Genes.
Speaker 4: I think I've just heard of that.
Speaker 2: I'm not a big K pop listener, but like I feel, like,
Speaker 2: you know, being on the internet, it comes into my
Speaker 2: feed often, so I think I like, just heard of
Speaker 2: this group from like some posts somewhere, but I'm not
Speaker 2: super familiar.
Speaker 1: Okay, I had never heard of them, and I was
Speaker 1: asking my friend who does like K pop, like, oh,
Speaker 1: do you know about New Genes? And she was like,
Speaker 1: they are literally one of the biggest groups in the world.
Speaker 1: That's like being like, oh, have you heard of this group?
Speaker 1: The Beatles? Like It's like, oh, I had no idea.
Speaker 1: So Earlier this year, the Korean pop apparently supergroup New
Speaker 1: Genes was asking for help and identifying an anonymous YouTuber
Speaker 1: to sue them for defamation, and this week for or
Speaker 1: For Media reported that a US federal court actually allowed
Speaker 1: the group to subpoenaed that information from Google about a
Speaker 1: YouTube account so they can sue that person for defamation
Speaker 1: under South Korean law. The group alleges that this account,
Speaker 1: which according to court documents, posts under the handle at
Speaker 1: middle seven, has posted as many as thirty three defamatory
Speaker 1: videos that have been viewed nearly fourteen million times as
Speaker 1: of their filing. Because the account is anonymous, the lawsuit
Speaker 1: cannot continue until that user has been identified. Some of
Speaker 1: the statements that New Genes are saying are defamatory include
Speaker 1: calling one of the members of the group the eldest
Speaker 1: daughter of a Vietnamese farmer, and a video titled reasons
Speaker 1: why New Genes is a crap group.
Speaker 4: I mean, it is that defavatory or is that just?
Speaker 2: I mean, I mean, if that's the bavatory, Harry Styles
Speaker 2: might be sending me a cease and desist sometime soon.
Speaker 4: That's why I wanted.
Speaker 1: To ask about this. So, like, I'm no lawyer. What
Speaker 1: do I know if you're If you're a lawyer and
Speaker 1: you have insight into this, uh, let me know. But
Speaker 1: I was so curious, Like so this is not the
Speaker 1: first case of this nature, and that is like why
Speaker 1: Google was ordered to actually provide the name and birth
Speaker 1: date and address and email address of the person on
Speaker 1: YouTube who was doing this, because it's like a there's
Speaker 1: already established legal precedent. However, I can't help but wonder,
Speaker 1: like what does this mean for haters like me, like
Speaker 1: people who just like I want to make a long
Speaker 1: YouTube video about how much I hate Harry Styles or whatever,
Speaker 1: like like what does that? What does that mean for
Speaker 1: those kind of people? You know?
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, I And I mean I don't know.
Speaker 2: I guess I would need to look a little bit
Speaker 2: more into this case and like what specific claims are
Speaker 2: being made. But if like like those two up front,
Speaker 2: a like the eldest daughter of a Vietnamese father, I
Speaker 2: don't know, maybe that's not true, but also that doesn't
Speaker 2: really seem like it's like defamatory, like I don't know.
Speaker 2: And then also yeah, the whole like why it's like
Speaker 2: if it's an opinion. I am also a bridge and
Speaker 2: I'm in the same court.
Speaker 4: I love being a hater.
Speaker 2: I like I if they make being a hater illegal
Speaker 2: on the internet, like.
Speaker 4: I don't know what I'm gonna do.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm so curious how it shakes out. M Well, Joey,
Speaker 1: thank you so much for being here. Where can folks
Speaker 1: keep in touch with what you're up to?
Speaker 2: Of course you can find me on Twitter and Instagram
Speaker 2: at Pat not Pratt p A T T n OT
Speaker 2: p r A T T. Also, same day that this
Speaker 2: is coming out, I have an episode of stuff Mom
Speaker 2: never told you, an Honor of Pride month, talking about
Speaker 2: the movie Bottoms. So you want to hear me talk
Speaker 2: about Honestly, a lot of it is me talking about
Speaker 2: other queer high school movies that I don't like but
Speaker 2: if you want to hear me talk about bottoms.
Speaker 4: And all of that. Yeah, the movie.
Speaker 1: Check it out, not the embody part, the body part.
Speaker 4: You know. You can check them out on stuff Mom
Speaker 4: Never told you.
Speaker 2: Also, also for Pride Month, there's a new show called
Speaker 2: but We Loved that's from the Outspoken Network.
Speaker 4: I would it's all about.
Speaker 2: Queer history told through kind of a kind of personal
Speaker 2: personal storytelling.
Speaker 4: I've been working on that as well. To go ahead
Speaker 4: and check that out. If that is of interest to.
Speaker 1: You, definitely check that out. We'll put the links in
Speaker 1: the show notes to all of this. Thanks so much
Speaker 1: for being here, Joey, and thanks to all of you
Speaker 1: for listening. I will see you on the Internet. If
Speaker 1: you're looking for ways to support the show, check out
Speaker 1: our merch store at tangody dot com slash store. Got
Speaker 1: a story about an interesting thing in tech, or just
Speaker 1: want to say hi, You can read us at Hello
Speaker 1: at tangody dot com. You can also find transcripts for
Speaker 1: today's episode.
Speaker 3: At tengody dot com.
Speaker 1: There Are No Girls on the Internet was created by
Speaker 1: me bridget Toid. It's a production of iHeartRadio and Unbossed Creative,
Speaker 1: edited by Joey Pat Jonathan Strickland as our executive producer.
Speaker 1: Tari Harrison is our producer and sound engineer. Michael Almada
Speaker 1: is our contributing producer. I'm your host, Bridget Todd. If
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