Speaker 1: Of the law and Order franchises. SVU is considered especially watchable.
Speaker 1: We are the amateur detectives who kind of investigate the
Speaker 1: vicious felonies. These episodes are based on These are our stories,
Speaker 1: done done, that's messed up. In sv podcast, We're coming
Speaker 1: to not Live. I'm Lisa Trager, Never Live. We're coming
Speaker 1: to you never once Live. I'm Karaklank, your other host.
Speaker 2: You know what this is all about, hopefully by now,
Speaker 2: it's SVU recabs, it's true crime, it's interviews with people
Speaker 2: from the show.
Speaker 1: And it's also chatting what's going on. We're bursting with
Speaker 1: things to talk about today.
Speaker 3: Am Dannai.
Speaker 1: Listen, I have the night of my life. I barely
Speaker 1: I'm barely holding on.
Speaker 3: We're coming to you live. No.
Speaker 2: November fifth, it's the day after election day, and you know,
Speaker 2: we had a little I wouldn't say people are saying
Speaker 2: blue wave. I'd say it's like a blue it's a
Speaker 2: blue little like you know, it's a nice little rip.
Speaker 1: Curl or whatever. But Prop fifth, you know I saw that.
Speaker 1: I mean, no, it is good.
Speaker 3: We got to celebrate the moments, the moments we have
Speaker 3: a day.
Speaker 2: We got Abigail Spanberger in Virginia. We got somebody in
Speaker 2: New Jersey and we got mom Donnie in New York
Speaker 2: is happening, So I'm excited to see what he does.
Speaker 1: Yeah, someone try to be like but now it's time
Speaker 1: to I go shut up tomorrow like we're getting drunk.
Speaker 3: He fucking loser, But I okay.
Speaker 1: So I went into not Natalie Poulomidis's show Weird and
Speaker 1: Blown Away.
Speaker 2: She has been working on in La Forever as a
Speaker 2: work in progress.
Speaker 3: I never got a chance to go see it. Son.
Speaker 1: Of course, there's an eighty year old man next to me.
Speaker 1: We start talking. I go, you're not gonna like this
Speaker 1: because he said he hated o'mary. He loves shucked. I go, sir,
Speaker 1: this isn't for you. What are you doing here? They
Speaker 1: go to fifty plays a year, They moved to New
Speaker 1: York for the culture. They rent three of the kids.
Speaker 1: I mean, I know his whole life story, and we
Speaker 1: hated o'mary. And we're at Natalie Palamedes. But I heard
Speaker 1: him laughing. I did hear him laughing at the end.
Speaker 1: I go, you liked it, didn't you? He goes, She's clever.
Speaker 1: I go, the most talented person I've ever seen in
Speaker 1: my life, layers upon layers. I like, can't even believe it.
Speaker 1: But it's sold out. The run's sold out before it
Speaker 1: even started, so like, I don't even know if any
Speaker 1: of you will be able to see it. She should
Speaker 1: do a giant like Beacon Show or town Hall. I wonder,
Speaker 1: what but this, I mean, it's the eight twenty. It's
Speaker 1: a cool venue.
Speaker 3: She's the Queen of the clowns. You know how this started.
Speaker 1: I was looking at the program, which I love, and
Speaker 1: he goes, ah, there's nothing in there. I go, what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? That's always started talking? I go,
Speaker 1: there's so much in here, so much depth. Anyways, it's
Speaker 1: like she plays two characters at once, Like the way
Speaker 1: she moves her body and the hand and the flipping
Speaker 1: and flopping and every p so many surprises, the way
Speaker 1: she uses I'm like blown away.
Speaker 3: I've never seen anything like it. And I don't like clown.
Speaker 1: I would say I'm anti clown, and I am like,
Speaker 1: if this is clown, I like, she's.
Speaker 3: No, she's the Queen of the clowns.
Speaker 2: I mean, for anybody that doesn't know her, she's in
Speaker 2: the progressive commercials. She's got a little bit of like
Speaker 2: like that, I would say.
Speaker 1: Kind of like high lice in the in the par commercials.
Speaker 1: She was just in this Haunted Hotel cartoon. I wyah,
Speaker 1: she's like a cartoon Powerpuff Girls, powder Puff Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's got a great voice, and she's funny, and
Speaker 2: she's in the You would know her from these progressive
Speaker 2: commercials if you're not into comedy and clowning specifically. But
Speaker 2: she's really talented and she's a great she's a really
Speaker 2: nice person.
Speaker 3: I like her a lot.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I walked out, checked my phone. We got
Speaker 1: a Zoron with Victory. I met three friends at one
Speaker 1: of my favorite bars in the city, established in eighteen seventeen,
Speaker 1: and we went after it, but he wasn't playing on
Speaker 1: the TV.
Speaker 3: We were sitting in the back of the bar and
Speaker 3: it was like but then.
Speaker 1: A woman came in and she had zor On stuff
Speaker 1: and then we started connecting. Then the waitresses, so then
Speaker 1: it was like the waitresses are happy. We found out
Speaker 1: the bartender is in charge of the TVs was pissed
Speaker 1: and so he purposely wouldn't play it. And she told
Speaker 1: me later like complaints all night and people were leaving,
Speaker 1: but yeah, but I'm like.
Speaker 2: The bartender in New York City was preferred the sex pest.
Speaker 3: I'm so, I'm so shocked.
Speaker 1: It's also like, this is where I saw Dean Winters
Speaker 1: once you know, come in, he's a regular. It's like
Speaker 1: it is it's old timey Irish. So for me, I'm like,
Speaker 1: it could give SVU cop bar, but it's not.
Speaker 3: And then we had the most gorgeous waitresses.
Speaker 1: I vaka sodas tequila, tequila tequila. So then the woman
Speaker 1: that came in, I go, let me get you at
Speaker 1: tequila shot. I'm feeling good, right, So the waitress comes
Speaker 1: up to me, goes, she is shocked by your generosity.
Speaker 1: I go, it's not that big of a deal, Like
Speaker 1: she couldn't believe it. Then she gives me this on
Speaker 1: her way out. Her friend made these ceramic before there
Speaker 1: were a there was official merch and I go, bitch,
Speaker 1: you gave it to the right girl, like this seramic.
Speaker 1: It's a ceramic nyc zoron for mayor pin or like gorgeous.
Speaker 1: I told her, I'm like, you gave it to the
Speaker 1: right girl. I'm like, this will be treasured. But because
Speaker 1: she was from Staten Island, she goes, oh, only my
Speaker 1: burrow didn't, but they were excited. Yeah, so it was
Speaker 1: like really hard to get. But then then so yeah,
Speaker 1: I just started getting hammered, dude, and it wouldn't stop.
Speaker 1: And then I I comic I didn't know did the
Speaker 1: tonight show, and so I met up with his friends
Speaker 1: and then I brought over into a different Irish pub
Speaker 1: that was open till four and I don't know, I
Speaker 1: don't know, Yeah, I really don't. But it was just
Speaker 1: a thrill. It was a thrill to be out fun.
Speaker 1: It was like, it's cool, it's cool, it's a really
Speaker 1: good day at celebrate.
Speaker 3: We'll see what happens.
Speaker 1: Our millennium, our millennium, millennial king.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And then Prop fifty pass in California, which is exciting too.
Speaker 1: That was our only job and we did it. So
Speaker 1: I'm happy about that. No more sex pests. And he
Speaker 1: just keeps dropping the mic Andrew Combe like I will
Speaker 1: never utter your name again.
Speaker 2: I'm like, okay. When he uh conceded, he said, Zora
Speaker 2: and mom, Dommy, I didn't, like, you can't even say
Speaker 2: your opponent's name in the concession, Like it's so it's
Speaker 2: so crazy, like come on guys.
Speaker 1: But yeah, well, well okay, listen, good work you did.
Speaker 1: You did tease me? Wait or should we do this?
Speaker 3: Okay?
Speaker 1: So in Baltimore, someone so, what was in my envelope?
Speaker 1: Someone gave me. It's like Benson in the eras Taylor
Speaker 1: Swift kind of card for me. And then inside was
Speaker 1: a sticker that said the life of an SVU Fan.
Speaker 1: So this card that was so cool. I didn't know
Speaker 1: where you got that. I'm opening this via zoom for them.
Speaker 1: So someone in Baltimore's an envelope that says Kara and
Speaker 1: Casey on it, and she's opening it.
Speaker 3: Okay.
Speaker 2: The front says that's messed up and it's a picture
Speaker 2: of iced tea.
Speaker 3: I love it. Cool. Oh you guys got Life of
Speaker 3: an SVU fan too.
Speaker 2: Oh so we got stickers and they're in the they're
Speaker 2: in the tailor Life of a Showgirl font.
Speaker 3: This is cool. Yeah, I love the keep that ship up.
Speaker 3: They're a note or anything with.
Speaker 1: Big fan of the pod. Keep that ship up, take
Speaker 1: care Aloha?
Speaker 3: All right, thank you, thank you to whoever sent us that.
Speaker 1: I think Aloha Aloha is the name, or maybe her
Speaker 1: name is Alona.
Speaker 3: It's either a loona or Aloha aloha, we love you.
Speaker 3: Thank you so much for the sticker and the car.
Speaker 3: That's cute.
Speaker 1: You should put that on your fridge. Thanks guys. I
Speaker 1: was thinking I would keep it.
Speaker 3: I love I love a little secret note.
Speaker 1: I really thought there would be more about last night,
Speaker 1: but I guess I got fucking just bombed. I was
Speaker 1: just buying shots for strangers. I was I love that.
Speaker 1: I love that you're spreading joy around New York. It
Speaker 1: was a good vibe, I would say, out in the
Speaker 1: out in the city. Wait, so you saw Barbarian? Okay,
Speaker 1: I want to know everything. Yeah, how do you feel?
Speaker 2: Last week before Halloween, we had a night where we
Speaker 2: were home, both of us, and I was like, you
Speaker 2: know what.
Speaker 3: He was like, do you want to watch a scary movie?
Speaker 1: And I was like, you know what Lisa's been telling me,
Speaker 1: I got to watch Barbarian.
Speaker 2: I gotta watch this. I got to see what all
Speaker 2: the hype is about. So two years later, I watched
Speaker 2: fucking Barbarian. I I mean, I'm not as into it
Speaker 2: as as as you are.
Speaker 1: Sorry, just right, okay, okay, okay, I were you scared of?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: It was a lot like weapons where I thought the
Speaker 2: first half was fucking perfect, suspenseful.
Speaker 3: I didn't know what was going on. I was like,
Speaker 3: I was like, what you know?
Speaker 2: But I also, you know, I'm always I'm like, why
Speaker 2: would you do that?
Speaker 3: Why would you go in? Why?
Speaker 2: Like you know, I was just like, so, why wouldn't
Speaker 2: you put a dresser in front of the door, Like
Speaker 2: I was so like, you know, doing the thing people do.
Speaker 3: At horror movies. But then.
Speaker 2: Spoiler alerts fast forward if you haven't seen Barbarian, because
Speaker 2: I know everybody got mad at us for spoiling weapons
Speaker 2: that had been out in the theaters for one calendar month.
Speaker 2: But I just I wasn't buying the inbred superhuman strength
Speaker 2: creature that lives in the tunnels.
Speaker 3: That wasn't oh vibing for me.
Speaker 2: Like she's if it's not supernatural, right, Like it's not supernatural.
Speaker 2: She's just a product of being inbred and held underneath
Speaker 2: the tunnel. But she's also probably has barely had any
Speaker 2: like as been eating dirt her whole life, but can
Speaker 2: literally break a person's smash up man's head into a
Speaker 2: wall to pulp like in two seconds. I don't know,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm always like I'm a skeptic. I'm just
Speaker 2: like really like I don't know, I was not.
Speaker 1: And what about when the guy was in the back,
Speaker 1: what about when the guy was in the back horrifying?
Speaker 3: I mean that was s for you? Like that was
Speaker 3: s for you? Like I also hid him to the crime.
Speaker 1: But do you don't feel like Justin Long was perfect,
Speaker 1: like such a fake thing?
Speaker 3: Like he was great.
Speaker 1: They treated her at the I mean, and with her,
Speaker 1: don't you just feel well?
Speaker 2: And I thought she was an amazing actress. I thought
Speaker 2: it was shot so great. I actually liked watching it
Speaker 2: a lot, Like I liked it. I just was like, no,
Speaker 2: the head smashup top is so surprising. I was like,
Speaker 2: what like? And I liked the flashback. I almost wanted
Speaker 2: a little bit. You wanted more crime, more of that,
Speaker 2: like hurt when.
Speaker 1: I was that crazy, someone goes I'm kind of embarrassed
Speaker 1: to admit this, but I didn't realize Hannibal Lecter wasn't
Speaker 1: based on someone real. I gos okay, I's okay, there's
Speaker 1: cannibals honest mistake.
Speaker 3: Yeah, honest was a genius Cannibal.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like so I I was like, yeah, I was like, wow,
Speaker 2: this is crazy and I thought the justin long and
Speaker 2: the whole cancelation of it and like it definitely is
Speaker 2: like amazing feminist messages and stuff that I really liked.
Speaker 1: I she just kept trying to help him, and I'm like,
Speaker 1: get out of their bitch.
Speaker 2: Yes, that's how I was, like, you're going back, and
Speaker 2: then the cops like not believing her made my blood
Speaker 2: boil like I wanted. It reminded me of It reminded
Speaker 2: me of Jeffrey Dahmer's victim that got out and ran
Speaker 2: up to the cops, you know, like, oh, but.
Speaker 3: It was freaky. It was freaky. I was just like
Speaker 3: those fucking tunnels.
Speaker 1: I was like, they keep going, but also like the
Speaker 1: bloody root, like with the chair, mattress and just some
Speaker 1: it's like not a big deal.
Speaker 3: What are you so scared of? It's like this is the.
Speaker 2: And the guy's like I was just so down there
Speaker 2: and check it out. It's probably no big deal. I
Speaker 2: was like, I hate everything about like this is so crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he like really knows how to do suspense and
Speaker 1: like makes you feel frustrated. Yes, yes, the frustration is
Speaker 1: very real. It was just challenged yourself because it is
Speaker 1: really scary.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it was not and I had to close my
Speaker 2: eyes a couple of times during the breastfeeding.
Speaker 3: I didn't love that. I didn't love that.
Speaker 2: Also, like the guy that's in the basement, why of
Speaker 2: all days, Like that's the day he killed? Oh? Is
Speaker 2: it because like they found him? Like doesn't he like
Speaker 2: haven't people gotten down there before? And she just kills
Speaker 2: them or takes care of them or whatever, Like he's like,
Speaker 2: today's the day, like and shoots himself.
Speaker 3: Like I don't know why is it because Justin gave
Speaker 3: him the gun? Did he have the gun? I don't
Speaker 3: remember this. He had the gun the whole time.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because it was like Justin looked at the video
Speaker 2: and was like, oh my god, and then he was
Speaker 2: like bye back you know.
Speaker 3: So I don't know, no, but he wanted just so
Speaker 3: long to watch him, right, I guess.
Speaker 2: I'm like, dude, the way that you're the way that
Speaker 2: you're living, I don't know why you haven't done this
Speaker 2: a while ago, you know, like any tapes.
Speaker 3: I forgot about the tapes. The tapes are horrific.
Speaker 2: I mean that's like the SVU of it all, Like
Speaker 2: the underground, the keeping people prisoner, Like you.
Speaker 1: Know how easy it was yeah, and then everyone's like ooh,
Speaker 1: this crazy bitch, but no one's like that, like rapist.
Speaker 3: How'd she get that way? Yeah? I didn't like that.
Speaker 2: The poor guy that was the only one that helped
Speaker 2: her also had to get mothered or whatever happened when
Speaker 2: you going up for that thing is called.
Speaker 1: Oh, I'm not going to Australia, so they won't let
Speaker 1: me in.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, guys, it's canceled. You're you know, I probably
Speaker 1: was supposed to be in Brisbane tomorrow. She's really trying Australia,
Speaker 1: just so you know. She's been really doing all the
Speaker 1: paperwork and they know.
Speaker 3: They want to fuck me.
Speaker 1: It's because then they got everything and then they're like,
Speaker 1: actually want these things too, And I'm like, again, you
Speaker 1: are not leaving me enough time to go to the well.
Speaker 3: You can't get it done. They don't want me there.
Speaker 3: I know when I'm not wanted, and that is there.
Speaker 2: It's that's fucking nuts. You're stimulating the economy. What's wrong
Speaker 2: with them?
Speaker 3: Wait? How is Halloween for your children? Oh? I was cute.
Speaker 2: And for me ten am I met my kids school.
Speaker 2: I'm working my ass off, putting a trunk or treat
Speaker 2: together until two thirty. Okay, so trunk er treat is
Speaker 2: like we all did cars, like you decorate you open
Speaker 2: like the trunk of your car, and then like you
Speaker 2: decorate it with a theme.
Speaker 3: So like one grade did Target.
Speaker 2: It was so fucking cute, like they had they all
Speaker 2: the moms wore red shirts with like Target name tags
Speaker 2: that someone made for them.
Speaker 3: They had a little Target check out thing. It was
Speaker 3: like so cute. And then they were the first one.
Speaker 2: So all the kids got Target bags that's where they
Speaker 2: collected all their candy. And then Oscar's class we did
Speaker 2: K Pop Demon Hunters.
Speaker 3: It was very cute.
Speaker 2: And then Rosie's class we turned our car into a
Speaker 2: Pikachu and it looked really cute.
Speaker 3: I'll post a picture.
Speaker 2: It looked really cute, and we had like poke.
Speaker 3: Balls and it was all.
Speaker 2: And then one did Monsters Ink and the parents like
Speaker 2: dressed up in like the white the white outfits with
Speaker 2: the hard hats and they scream test.
Speaker 3: It was so cute. They had doors, like people really
Speaker 3: went for it.
Speaker 2: And oh and then another grade did Saga Boys and
Speaker 2: they had like a full fog machine like like you know,
Speaker 2: are you have you watched ke Pop Dean Hunters or
Speaker 2: heard about it at all. No, I really can't believe
Speaker 2: I haven't. I mean this song, but isn't it is
Speaker 2: the song?
Speaker 3: Is that it? We're going up? Yeah, that's why I
Speaker 3: want to hear that. Yeah, and all the kids in
Speaker 3: my life.
Speaker 1: I feel dressed up like a K pop demon hunter
Speaker 1: this every wolloween. We did also get a photo of
Speaker 1: Casey's daughter. Oh my God knocked me over with a
Speaker 1: picture of his tiny teletubby.
Speaker 3: Wait, did you guys tell a tubby too? We had.
Speaker 4: I didn't have a full teletubby outfit, but I did
Speaker 4: have the tinky winky.
Speaker 3: On my head. Oh that's oh. I thought I thought
Speaker 3: you were going to say the purse. You didn't have
Speaker 3: a purse. You have to have the purse.
Speaker 2: I know, I know, but it was it was great Oscars,
Speaker 2: Glinda costume slapped Rosie, you know, was stitch.
Speaker 3: It was boiling hot. I'll never get used to the.
Speaker 2: Fact that Halloween in la is like always eighty eight
Speaker 2: degrees and like sweaty.
Speaker 1: I know I'm aging because the way I'm looking at
Speaker 1: leaves lately, I like can't believe it.
Speaker 3: I go now, this is beautiful fall.
Speaker 1: I go, this is fall, and I got to take
Speaker 1: the Amtrak and it's a Baltimore So.
Speaker 3: The leaves I just couldn't be.
Speaker 2: You went on a full leaf peep, you went mid
Speaker 2: atlantic leaf peep.
Speaker 3: I mean it's so true.
Speaker 2: You hit a certain age and you're just like, wow,
Speaker 2: foliage amazing, Like it's really amazing. Yeah, we don't get
Speaker 2: that really, but we do get boiling hot October.
Speaker 1: So but then and Rosie just loves wearing a hot
Speaker 1: one piece.
Speaker 3: She loves wearing a hot fucking one piece.
Speaker 1: Man.
Speaker 2: She just likes to be cozy, basically wearing pajamas with ears.
Speaker 2: And they had a blast. We want trick or treating.
Speaker 2: I let them stay out late because it was a Friday.
Speaker 2: Oscar put himself to bed at like nine o'clock. Oscar's
Speaker 2: like I gotta go home, Like he was like, get
Speaker 2: me out of here.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, that's so funny. Halloween's out of Friday.
Speaker 1: The kids really got to party.
Speaker 2: Huh oh yeah, and it's on a Saturday next year, right, Yeah,
Speaker 2: that's a time leapier.
Speaker 3: Sometimes it's awesome. That's awesome. Yeah.
Speaker 1: The cellar stars of my show, I would say, is
Speaker 1: a couple showed up as Clarence Thomas and Jinny Thomas.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, that's great, Yeah yeah yeah, And then she
Speaker 1: was she was Clarence and he was Ginny, and I
Speaker 1: would say, they're the winners of my show costumes for sure.
Speaker 3: Oh.
Speaker 1: I went to Julio Torres's party with the costume contest,
Speaker 1: like the full Halloween, and I will say the winner
Speaker 1: of the costume contest, I mean, people are so creative.
Speaker 1: But I did look at a Frankenstein and I was like, wow,
Speaker 1: that's a hot person. It was Adam Lambert. I saw
Speaker 1: later and the press and I was like cool. I
Speaker 1: was like, star studded, cool stuff. But the winner did
Speaker 1: go viral on TikTok, but I got to see it
Speaker 1: in person. And the winner of the contest was the
Speaker 1: Princess Diana Beanie Baby in the revenge dress.
Speaker 3: In the Revenge dress. Somebody was just telling me about that.
Speaker 1: I was there, Like to be in the presence of that,
Speaker 1: I can't, I can't. It was so cool. That's and
Speaker 1: then there was so very funny this tooth fairy wand
Speaker 1: with this giant tooth, I mean gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous, and
Speaker 1: people performed and did split. I mean, it was like
Speaker 1: really cool. It was a really cool event. Oh but
Speaker 1: you're gonna love this. So one of my friends, every
Speaker 1: time I walked up to her, she was she kept
Speaker 1: walking away from me.
Speaker 3: So I was like, I wonder if she's mad at me?
Speaker 3: Like did I do something?
Speaker 1: I wonder And then my other friend was like, oh
Speaker 1: my god, she kind of said something to me like
Speaker 1: I don't know what to do. I feel like she
Speaker 1: it's weird, like he was having issues. And then we
Speaker 1: find out the bitch is on ketamine. And it's like,
Speaker 1: what a lesson in life? What a lesson? You never
Speaker 1: know what people are going through. The bitches on horse
Speaker 1: drinks like it, like, no one is mad. I wonder
Speaker 1: if she's mad at me. No, she's just literally been dosed.
Speaker 1: That's so funny. But people are so creative. I love
Speaker 1: Halloween and I feel like Halloween is the best time
Speaker 1: of year on Instagram, like I want to look at
Speaker 1: everyone's costumes.
Speaker 3: What did you wear?
Speaker 1: I will look at it like I want to know,
Speaker 1: and I want to join the contest next year.
Speaker 3: I want to go for it. I want to do
Speaker 3: something super. I was inspired.
Speaker 1: Someone came as you know Rihanna's Instagram the drawing. Yeah,
Speaker 1: someone came as the drawing. It was like white Instagram avatar. Yeah,
Speaker 1: that's so funny.
Speaker 3: Like people are just so clever and cool. So well.
Speaker 2: Jared and I were to board teenage employees working at
Speaker 2: Halloween Horror Nights.
Speaker 3: I like to act out.
Speaker 1: We wore cloaks and had flashlights and we were just
Speaker 1: looking bored.
Speaker 3: And you were.
Speaker 1: Inspired when you went to Hornet. I've never got Yeah,
Speaker 1: I have not. I want to go to like six Flags.
Speaker 1: I want to ride some coasters. I haven't done that
Speaker 1: in a while. Yeah, it's cool.
Speaker 2: I mean Universal doesn't have as many good rides, but
Speaker 2: six Flags rocks.
Speaker 3: I love six Flags. All right, should we get started?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but I feel like there was something else, Like
Speaker 1: I do, I really do, but I guess not. But
Speaker 1: I'll be in Hartford, Connecticut, in Montreal, Canada, Hartford.
Speaker 3: Yeah, is your niece gonna come?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 3: No one cares about me. They don't. No one fucking cares.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. Oh yeah.
Speaker 1: So you know, we were recording yesterday and my dad called,
Speaker 1: and so basically he's like he wants to he wants
Speaker 1: to keep one of the street cats, the newer one right,
Speaker 1: and my mom is against it. So he wants me
Speaker 1: to manipulate her and call her and just bring up
Speaker 1: the cat as often as I can. And I have
Speaker 1: to call like the ve like I have to figure
Speaker 1: stuff out, Like he's trying to get this cat.
Speaker 2: Wow, emotional warfare, bringing you involve, getting you involved.
Speaker 1: I want us to get the cat. She's as cute,
Speaker 1: she's cute, she likes.
Speaker 3: Has he named it? Has he named it her? No?
Speaker 1: No I haven't. I didn't even ask yet, But I
Speaker 1: got to name her. Once you personalize the cat, it
Speaker 1: will be harder to let her go. No, they all
Speaker 1: know because the black cat has a named to get.
Speaker 1: I get the sentiment. I get the Senate. She's just
Speaker 1: so cute. I haven't met her yet. She's so cute.
Speaker 1: I only get photos. But I'm glad he's I want
Speaker 1: them to have a cat. Yeah, so why is your
Speaker 1: mom so against it? She? You know, I think they're
Speaker 1: still traumatized from Manya passing. Oh yeah, I'm just dom
Speaker 1: and gloom. She goes, what's gonna happen to the cat
Speaker 1: when I die? And it's like, we'll take the cat.
Speaker 1: Like there's a lot of us that'll take the cat,
Speaker 1: but also can you just stay alive, like that's also
Speaker 1: an option. You can also just outlive the cat, like
Speaker 1: I don't understand.
Speaker 3: Oh my god, the doom, the gloom. That's so funny.
Speaker 3: Oh my lord.
Speaker 2: All right, well guys, one more thing before we start
Speaker 2: the episode.
Speaker 3: For today, we do have new merge. We have a
Speaker 3: new T shirt hot off the press.
Speaker 2: It is one of those classic Amper sand T shirts,
Speaker 2: but it's all the ways that Lisa mispronounces Lois. We've
Speaker 2: got a Lois Lewis Louise shirt that is up. It's
Speaker 2: so cute and funny and I'm excited.
Speaker 1: And it's an inside I've been waiting for an inside
Speaker 1: base on.
Speaker 2: This is gonna be a conversation starter. You're gonna wear
Speaker 2: this around and people are gonna go, what is this shirt?
Speaker 2: And you're gonna be like, listen, there's this podcast and
Speaker 2: it's I love that about it. It's like it's just
Speaker 2: for like our listeners, like like people like we understand it,
Speaker 2: and I think it's it's really funny and it's cute.
Speaker 2: I like the color scheme. So you can go to
Speaker 2: the www. Dot exactly right store dot com or you
Speaker 2: can just go to that's messed up live dot com
Speaker 2: that has our shop link, which will take you right there,
Speaker 2: get it ordered and we drop merch.
Speaker 1: Or like, how about this one, I go, We've already
Speaker 1: designed it. We already had one because people are like
Speaker 1: suspicious and annoyed.
Speaker 3: I go, sure, but we got a lose vicious and annoyed.
Speaker 2: We can look into for a New Year drop. You
Speaker 2: can do that for New Year drop up. For now,
Speaker 2: We've already had Lois Louise. I forget the other ones.
Speaker 1: There's a lot more than imagine, and they're they're all
Speaker 1: on the shore and the.
Speaker 3: Colorway is cool. I like the color. Yeah, yeah, for sure.
Speaker 2: So Mono, get on over there, pick one up, support
Speaker 2: our show and we love you guys.
Speaker 3: Let's get this show on the road.
Speaker 1: Right. We're at season eighteen, episode thirteen.
Speaker 2: Jeans All right, fresh Sidney Sweeney has good jeans. That's
Speaker 2: what this episode's about. Maddie with the fatty Maddie. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I remember her real last name. I like her, but
Speaker 2: she her tour poster stuff is bad jeans. It's like
Speaker 2: Maddie has bad jeans, but it's the same kind of photos.
Speaker 2: And I think it's so good and funny. Okay, So
Speaker 2: we're at a busy bar. Rock music is playing. It's
Speaker 2: a divey vibe, I would say. And there's a little
Speaker 2: creep and I know him, Michael Torpi and he was
Speaker 2: a CEO on Orange Is the New Black and also
Speaker 2: in an episode post Rage season twenty six, episode twenty two,
Speaker 2: and he was in Deep, so that's exciting. He was
Speaker 2: a lobbyist slash Catherine's love interest for three episodes in
Speaker 2: season four.
Speaker 1: And he's a creep for sure, clear as day. But
Speaker 1: another creep pops, so you know, Jessica, our bartender is
Speaker 1: really getting hit on Olens and you could tell that
Speaker 1: this the second creep, is always trying to hit on Jessica.
Speaker 1: She does not like it. She knows his name. She's like, Rodney,
Speaker 1: leave me the fuck alone. He's like, let's go to dinner.
Speaker 1: We can go to Polo bar no boo, and she's like,
Speaker 1: I work, I don't want to do this. He goes,
Speaker 1: what about marry me, take me to pair or not
Speaker 1: take me to Paris. I'll take you to Paris. I'll
Speaker 1: take you to Paris. Then our og guy is like,
Speaker 1: leave her alone, and she's not into it, and Rodney
Speaker 1: is like, you shut the fuck up. So the men
Speaker 1: stare each other down creep versus creep, And now she's
Speaker 1: closing the bar, she's locking it up. It's the end
Speaker 1: of the night and uhh. Rodney is there waiting for her.
Speaker 1: He's like, I'm a good guy, just give me a chance.
Speaker 1: And when he touches her, she's like, don't fucking touch me.
Speaker 1: He's like, relax, and it's just them in the middle
Speaker 1: of the street, and she finally walks off, and she
Speaker 1: does go to a car, and that's a twist for sure,
Speaker 1: and she entered and then someone hops up behind her
Speaker 1: and she starts screaming for help, and he keeps saying
Speaker 1: relaxed as she screams. And now we have NYPD on
Speaker 1: the case. So rollin's increased. You are there and some
Speaker 1: unis fill them in. Jessica Wolcott, she's twenty six and
Speaker 1: she works at a bar on seventh and Avenue B.
Speaker 3: Guess what.
Speaker 1: I was at a bar on seventh and Avenue B,
Speaker 1: like last week I was. I used to always be
Speaker 1: at bars. There no the bar on that corner, Like,
Speaker 1: what do they think they filmed there?
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: It was someone's birthday and I walked over and it
Speaker 1: was rock rocks kind of vibes, and I wonder if
Speaker 1: it's there, but also, why are you driving to work?
Speaker 1: Like it's kind of psycho. I would never be a
Speaker 1: victory shoe shaped bar there for a long time that
Speaker 1: I always went to. Yeah, Like the bar was horseshoe shaped, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: in the middle and it was like rock and roll.
Speaker 3: Yeah, like a fun divy bar.
Speaker 2: I used to go there all the time because my
Speaker 2: friend that you know used to live right down the street.
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, good times. Yeah, so I'll you know, I
Speaker 1: like that. So anyways, she so she's on the corner.
Speaker 1: So she was raped in the front seat of the
Speaker 1: car and dark music plays, and that's obviously the closes
Speaker 1: captioning there's gonna be a lot of music cues in
Speaker 1: this episode. Rollin's goes to comfort the blanket covered shivering victim,
Speaker 1: take her inside.
Speaker 3: She's freezing. I don't understand.
Speaker 1: You can't be in an ambulance, Like I know, it's
Speaker 1: it's for the show. I get it, but she's just
Speaker 1: like really shivering and disheveled. But she didn't see him
Speaker 1: because it was from behind, and her makeup is smeared,
Speaker 1: and she did hear his voice. He talked a lot,
Speaker 1: and he said he was sorry. He started to cry
Speaker 1: and go, it's not my fault. I was born this way. Sorry,
Speaker 1: I just did it like in the Gagaway in my head.
Speaker 1: So he basically he's like, I was born to be
Speaker 1: a rapist, and it's in my jeans credits. Okay, she's
Speaker 1: indoors and warm, and she's clean. I think they let
Speaker 1: her wash her hair and face. She seems yeah, she
Speaker 1: looks showered. Yeah, yeah, So I wonder if they like
Speaker 1: did a speedy rape kit or something. So she's sitting
Speaker 1: with Benson and telling her what happened. She's crying. She says,
Speaker 1: you know, like he was really strong because she did
Speaker 1: try to fight him off. She thinks she does know
Speaker 1: who it is because Rodney would never leave her alone.
Speaker 3: So now solemn music plays.
Speaker 1: She said, it was really odd about the genetics, you know,
Speaker 1: and she asks if it's real, and Benson goes, that's ridiculous,
Speaker 1: of course it's not. So we go to the car dealership.
Speaker 1: Guess who works there, Rodney. I mean it's I like
Speaker 1: that car dealers like it's been a scummy job forever
Speaker 1: and will never change, Like if you want to create
Speaker 1: a character that's like untrustworthy or a Slee's ball.
Speaker 3: And he sells cars. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: He tries not to talk to Rolin's and Creasy because
Speaker 1: he's in the middle of a deal and it's like, babe,
Speaker 1: there's two badges. No one cares about your deal. He
Speaker 1: also seems shocked, but he the name Jessica and makes
Speaker 1: a little joke to the customer who like and it's
Speaker 1: so cheesy, but the customer kind of giggles and they
Speaker 1: have this like he implies his prices are so low
Speaker 1: it's criminal, and he, you know, walks off with the
Speaker 1: detectives and he goes, I got rejected. Is that a felony?
Speaker 1: And they go no, but rape is He goes, oh,
Speaker 1: I did not rape. He swears to God. He says
Speaker 1: he would never rape somebody, and he didn't follow her.
Speaker 1: He just got blown off, and so like he went
Speaker 1: to a different bar, and or near the bar, he goes,
Speaker 1: I would never rape somebody. And that's actually like a
Speaker 1: sign of innocence, right because when the people go, I
Speaker 1: would never do that, Like that makes sense because or
Speaker 1: they'll be like who said that? And it's like, so
Speaker 1: you're not denying it, you know what I mean, Like
Speaker 1: this is the right answer for someone who doesn't who
Speaker 1: didn't do it. But he goes, I just I got
Speaker 1: blown off and I took a quick car home. He
Speaker 1: agrees to a DNA sample and it's kind of hot.
Speaker 1: He goes swab away, like he's like down to get swabbed,
Speaker 1: And so I'm back into this car dealer. So my
Speaker 1: sister used to do like reception, like paperwork admin at
Speaker 1: a car dealership. And I used to hang out at
Speaker 1: the office when I was a kid, and it was
Speaker 1: the thing where you would put documents in a tube
Speaker 1: and then you can.
Speaker 2: Go like, oh, why that is so cool. My mom's
Speaker 2: bank used to do that. I'd be like, let me
Speaker 2: put it in like to do deposits. Yeah, oh my god.
Speaker 2: I want to a height of technology. I thought that
Speaker 2: was like, this is the future. We're all gonna be
Speaker 2: sending each other messages through fucking tubes.
Speaker 3: I fucking loved it.
Speaker 1: I want to shrink down, get in the tube and
Speaker 1: get shot up, have a fun ass.
Speaker 2: I think you kind of do that on like a
Speaker 2: water slide. You're right, you're in a tube and you
Speaker 2: just get shot the fuck out of a cannon.
Speaker 1: We're at the precincts and Roland's looking at Bodega camera
Speaker 1: footage and we see Rodney grabbing her and then her
Speaker 1: walking away, and he watches her, but he does have
Speaker 1: the other way. And Benson comes in with even more
Speaker 1: evidence to hear him the DNA is not a match.
Speaker 1: But good news is we got a familial match with
Speaker 1: someone named Mark Brown who's arrested in twenty thirteen for rape.
Speaker 1: And he's doing seven to ten and sing sing because
Speaker 1: he raped a math teacher in the Bronx and I
Speaker 1: like like the detail of the subject that she teaches,
Speaker 1: So let's talk to him and find his male relatives.
Speaker 1: We talked to this guy. He's kind of funny and
Speaker 1: he's annoyed. But from like, from my perspective, when you
Speaker 1: want to pay a change of pace in jail, someone
Speaker 1: came to see me, whether I wanted it or not,
Speaker 1: I'd be like, oh, yeah, I'll entertain this. Yeah, let's
Speaker 1: see what happens. Something to do, Yeah, something to do.
Speaker 1: I just don't know why. But he basically he says,
Speaker 1: so he goes I'm not what are you guys talking about?
Speaker 3: You want all my close family members? What else? You
Speaker 3: want me to wash your car?
Speaker 1: And they lie to him and they go, well, we
Speaker 1: just want to make sure everyone's okay because someone in
Speaker 1: your family has been critically injured.
Speaker 2: Which is like sad to lie like that. I know
Speaker 2: you've got to get what you gotta get, but like,
Speaker 2: this guy's in jail now, he's like, he's my They're okay, Like,
Speaker 2: I think it's so fucked up, and I don't like
Speaker 2: this little lie that they're doing with the critically insured
Speaker 2: family member.
Speaker 1: Like this man's in jail. His like, I mean, he's
Speaker 1: a rapist. Fuck with him. Who cares to ride him? Honestly?
Speaker 1: Lie to him, hit him in the face. I've been
Speaker 1: worse to less rape. So whatever. He's worried. He's like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, was it my brother? Is it Mark Brown?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 3: No, he's Mark Brown. I'm kidding. It's his brother Nick.
Speaker 3: He goes, is it my brother Nick?
Speaker 1: They're like, I don't know, someone's you know, fucked up
Speaker 1: in a car crash, dude. So he's so worried. He's like,
Speaker 1: does my mom know? And they go, well, let him know.
Speaker 1: We'll let him know, And so they get Nick's info.
Speaker 1: He's an accountant, and they walk off slimy as fuck,
Speaker 1: but I guess we've you know, he's a rayping. So
Speaker 1: they go to Nick Brown and he's the other man
Speaker 1: from the bar earlier, obviously, and he's a little He's
Speaker 1: in a little desk in the corner of a row
Speaker 1: of desks, no tie, button down, checkered shirt. So they
Speaker 1: approach him and he goes, is this about the bartender?
Speaker 1: And they're like, how do you know about that? And
Speaker 1: he's like, oh, I heard from a guy that he like,
Speaker 1: I know from the bar, and he goes, listen, I
Speaker 1: did it. I raped her. I couldn't help it. I
Speaker 1: was born this way. I was born to be a rapist.
Speaker 1: And they obviously have to handcuff him, and Rollin's mouth
Speaker 1: is a gape. She cannot believe it, and she does
Speaker 1: read him as rights. All his coworkers watch him as
Speaker 1: he's taken away, thurnsmet roombars he did confess to rape,
Speaker 1: and he does have an attorney. He goes, listen, my
Speaker 1: father was a mouse. My father was a mouse. His
Speaker 1: name was Stuart Little. And now we're family of rapists. Okay,
Speaker 1: all right, he serves seven years for rape with three
Speaker 1: counts of rape.
Speaker 3: Seven years.
Speaker 1: I think that's not enough, but yeah, the dad also
Speaker 1: said he couldn't help himself. And Benson's watching obviously She's like,
Speaker 1: my father's a rapist?
Speaker 3: Is it in me? Am I a deep yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And the dude's like, it's in me, it's DNA.
Speaker 1: And also her brother ended up, you know, having a
Speaker 1: squirrely life. And then the lawyer stops him from talking
Speaker 1: anymore and goes, Nick has information to help solve an
Speaker 1: outstanding case involving a serial rapist, but they want a deal,
Speaker 1: and Rollins goes, ye, yeah, but we need a taste,
Speaker 1: and Chrasey goes and how do we know you're legit?
Speaker 1: And he looks up and goes, I know who the
Speaker 1: River rapist is. They're like, you know him? Oh my god.
Speaker 1: But the lawyer stops him from revealing anything and goes,
Speaker 1: but he goes he gags his victims with socks, and
Speaker 1: Crasy goes, congrats, you read the paper, and he goes,
Speaker 1: wool socks because they're thick in course, and make them gag,
Speaker 1: and it's like, okay, that's so fucked up. He says
Speaker 1: it's not a knife. It's in the ice pick as well,
Speaker 1: and he smells like cigars. And all the victims did
Speaker 1: mention that someone was always smoking, and he goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: he was always smoking these little ones with the plastic
Speaker 1: tip thing. They're like, okay, we're gonna talk to the
Speaker 1: detectives investigating the case figure it out. And he's like,
Speaker 1: please tell the bartender. I'm really sorry, and Rollins goes yeah,
Speaker 1: and we'll send her flowers too. Are you fucking stupid?
Speaker 1: And he looks sad, but okay, time has passed. We're
Speaker 1: in Benson's office. Rollin's Criasy got the info confirmed with
Speaker 1: the lead people on the River rapist crime. Benson's gonna
Speaker 1: call the DA for a deal, and Chraasey goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: and make sure you tell him about the dumg thing
Speaker 1: he's going to bring up.
Speaker 3: So they're prepared.
Speaker 1: And so we got to call Jessica and tell her
Speaker 1: about the deal, and we also and that we got
Speaker 1: him and sends Creesy out. So now Rollin's goes, well,
Speaker 1: you haven't told him about your rapist dad yet, and
Speaker 1: she goes, well, neither did you, And she goes that's
Speaker 1: not my place. So they're sweet, they're friends. Rollins chucks in.
Speaker 1: Benson pretends she's okay, clearly she's not. She's straight at
Speaker 1: her therapist's office. Peter Lindstrom. Benson's in therapy, And I
Speaker 1: forgot it's this is also about Noah, So it's not
Speaker 1: even about just racist rapist dad Noah's dad, is it?
Speaker 3: Nikki d.
Speaker 1: D Johnny D Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I mean Johnny
Speaker 1: one of the worst, burned a woman, full trafficker, rapist, murderer,
Speaker 1: like monster. I mean, this show has so many layers.
Speaker 1: But so now she's worried Noah will be a rapist
Speaker 1: as well, and she goes, what if his darkness will
Speaker 1: overpower everything? He says, your belief systems, moral compass, and
Speaker 1: strength are stronger than your fond there's DNA, and he
Speaker 1: reminds her there's no such thing as the rape gene.
Speaker 1: And it's not it's like you had an abusive person
Speaker 1: in your life, like that's what it is.
Speaker 3: It's not a gene, you know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And also I'm not saying that's an excuse, but
Speaker 1: it's like if you're abused, you're more likely to abuse.
Speaker 3: It has nothing to do with genetics.
Speaker 1: Well, what's interesting is like this episode is listed as
Speaker 1: being based also.
Speaker 2: On like the warrior gene, which is like this thing
Speaker 2: that is it is a thing. It's like a it's
Speaker 2: like a misleading term. It says on the internet of
Speaker 2: like some kind of gene that they found in a
Speaker 2: bunch of people in this one Dutch family, and they
Speaker 2: were all very they said it was like it influences behavior,
Speaker 2: but it's not an actual direct predictor of violence. But
Speaker 2: this episode never even like gets into that. So I
Speaker 2: didn't even really like research it for the second half
Speaker 2: of the episode because I was like, this just feels
Speaker 2: like a bullshit excuse to be like.
Speaker 1: Well, sorry, I have this warrior gene that just makes
Speaker 1: me a fucking rapist, Like yes, that's not.
Speaker 3: Yeah, no, no no.
Speaker 1: So we're at Rikers and Barba's here, and I just
Speaker 1: had been mentioning, like a few episodes ago, how I
Speaker 1: needed more Barbara. We miss Barbara, and we got him,
Speaker 1: and he's with Benson and he's willing to make a deal. Okay,
Speaker 1: so rape two and only if the information is credible.
Speaker 1: The lawyer tries to get a better deal and but
Speaker 1: Barbara shuts him down before it starts like we're not
Speaker 1: doing this, and Nick's like, okay, okay, I'll take it.
Speaker 1: It sounds fair to me. And he says that the
Speaker 1: River rapist name is Sam. He doesn't know the last
Speaker 1: name or where he lives or works, and it's like
Speaker 1: what the fuck, Like what do you even have? Like
Speaker 1: you're so annoying, and Nick says, I'll know where he'll
Speaker 1: be tonight at ten dark music again. So we're on
Speaker 1: twelfth Avenue. We're in a warehouse, kitchen, garage, morgue. I
Speaker 1: don't know, white painted bricks, metal doors that open in
Speaker 1: the middle, you know, like back, like for trucks or
Speaker 1: something to go. Yeah, there's like where how Yeah, fluorescent lights,
Speaker 1: loose chairs. This is obviously a meeting addict kind of vibes.
Speaker 1: And there's God talk and we and Nixon there he's undercover.
Speaker 1: We have a steak out Rollin's and crease You're working
Speaker 1: closely together and they're like, fuck these sexual predators, and
Speaker 1: Creasey calls it a Saturday night live skit. Nick starts
Speaker 1: and he says he was drinking a beer and talking
Speaker 1: to a pretty bartender, and he says he began to
Speaker 1: spin out and had feelings that he couldn't control himself,
Speaker 1: and he did the thing he vowed he'd never do,
Speaker 1: and he admits to raping her and a young man
Speaker 1: and a beanie goes, how could you do that? And
Speaker 1: he says we had a deal. We were going to
Speaker 1: fight this thing together. And he says I made a mistake.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, and the beanie goes, I'm not buying it now.
Speaker 1: Old man confronts beanie and would you blame an alcoholic
Speaker 1: for sipping a drink? He's not responsible for his genetics,
Speaker 1: and neither are you. There's also a curly haired guy
Speaker 1: and yeah, so there's like old guy, two young guys,
Speaker 1: two nameless guys, and there's a lot of empty chairs,
Speaker 1: is my point? Okay, it's a small club. And I
Speaker 1: also want to know is this on craigslist? Like how
Speaker 1: are they finding each other? Like how do the how
Speaker 1: do the way? How are they finding each other? Like sketchy, sketchy.
Speaker 1: So this old dude talks in a lot of platitudes
Speaker 1: and finally is like, don't hate yourself, and the beanie goes,
Speaker 1: are you fucking kidding? I despise myself every day? Wake
Speaker 1: up and go, is this the day I finally ruined
Speaker 1: my life in the life of an innocent woman? Someone
Speaker 1: walks in late, someone says, hi, Sam, we have Sam.
Speaker 1: Old man fills him in that Nick shared and that
Speaker 1: Will is disappointed in him, and Sam says, sorry to
Speaker 1: hear about that, but you know, it happens, and he's
Speaker 1: quickly like doesn't give a fuck, like how are things?
Speaker 3: Like what's going on? He says he's good.
Speaker 1: He's kind of like a handsome guy, I would say,
Speaker 1: And he says he feels like he turned a page
Speaker 1: in his life. He went on a real, proper date
Speaker 1: with a great woman. And the old guy says, like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, that's terrific. So then Nick asked the
Speaker 1: old man like, do you think me or Sam or
Speaker 1: any of us kind of a normal relationship And the
Speaker 1: old man says yes, it's a process. And Nick says
Speaker 1: even though he's assaulted three women, And Sam goes, whoa
Speaker 1: why are you being so negative?
Speaker 3: And so then.
Speaker 1: Well we don't talk stats in here, bro, like it's
Speaker 1: so But also like Nick, can you be a little patient,
Speaker 1: like why or why didn't anyone train him to be undercover?
Speaker 1: More like you're changing the way you behave so drastically,
Speaker 1: like you're being crazy, You're literally it's giving. The fucking
Speaker 1: guy at the ticket booth in the lou Diamond Phillips
Speaker 1: episode like relax, like just calm down. Yeah, So he goes, whatever,
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm just trying to make sense of this
Speaker 1: for myself, and they go, yeah, well you talk about
Speaker 1: your own crap, okay, And Nick keeps trying, and everyone's
Speaker 1: just suspicious and curly guys like why do you even
Speaker 1: use the R word? You know, like we don't do
Speaker 1: that here. And Nick's like, well, what are the options
Speaker 1: for those of us who have raped? What do we
Speaker 1: do now? And he's flailing, and then Curls goes, we're
Speaker 1: trying the best we can. And they all start fighting
Speaker 1: and the old man screams for them to calm down.
Speaker 1: They're in full like outerwear. This meat plant must be freezing.
Speaker 1: And then the old man reminds everyone that they're there
Speaker 1: to support each other, and Curls goes, Nick is asking
Speaker 1: too many questions, he's accusing people. He's He's like, I've
Speaker 1: been here ten times, I've never heard him talk about rape.
Speaker 1: This guy's pissed, and he goes and the Sam's specific
Speaker 1: you're a snitch. He goes, no, I'm not tense music.
Speaker 1: So now Curls takes out a knife and all units
Speaker 1: have to move in. Obviously there's a knife, and so
Speaker 1: the group kind of like it's a musical. It's like
Speaker 1: truly West Side story. They're all kind of like, you know,
Speaker 1: getting him against so well and knife on him. They
Speaker 1: push him against the wall. He goes, I'm gonna count
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna count in. But it's like, obviously he
Speaker 1: finds his wire and rape. It's not as good of
Speaker 1: actors as killers. I guess I'm not not good at
Speaker 1: getting away with steps. So so they go, you lying
Speaker 1: son of a bitch and Nick goes kill me.
Speaker 3: I deserve it. I deserve it. The cops run in.
Speaker 1: Everyone tries to run but get we're bringing in, so
Speaker 1: the Beanie guy's crying. They arrest Sam and they're all
Speaker 1: going to the precinct for a chat. So it's a
Speaker 1: big parade of perverts through the precinct and Barbara.
Speaker 3: Perverts on parade.
Speaker 1: Barbara and Benson are watching the clowns come in and
Speaker 1: maybe the Beanie guy had a chance, I don't know.
Speaker 1: So they have nothing to really hold anybody, so they
Speaker 1: really have to work as a team. The old man goes, yeah,
Speaker 1: they're flawed, but they're trying and they're decent, and Rollins
Speaker 1: only wants to talk about Sam. She does not give
Speaker 1: a fuck, and he's not going to spill easy. He goes,
Speaker 1: this is a place to support men with nowhere to
Speaker 1: turn and no one to talk, and we listen and
Speaker 1: courage and we don't judge. And Benson through the spy
Speaker 1: windows scoffs to Barba. And most of the members have
Speaker 1: never done anything wrong, he says, and Rollins is like, okay,
Speaker 1: but I only care about Sam Dalton, so stop it.
Speaker 3: But he refuses to betray the group.
Speaker 1: She gets loud and aggressive and goes, what about the
Speaker 1: betrayal of three women? Three innocent women who are wondering
Speaker 1: if the cops are ever going to catch their rapists?
Speaker 1: Are you okay betraying them? He says, If I betray
Speaker 1: one of them, I lose all credibility. The group vanishes
Speaker 1: and lots of decent men are fighting to do the
Speaker 1: right thing, to go against their genetics, and he's like,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm helping these guys. It could help stop
Speaker 1: hundreds of rapes. So Barbara's like, okay, I get it,
Speaker 1: I get it relaxed. Benson goes, Shirt in theory, but
Speaker 1: in reality it could make things much worse. It gives
Speaker 1: them a forum to rationalize and legitimize their crimes. And
Speaker 1: Barbara goes, well, who's this other kid? And we go
Speaker 1: to the other spy window. It's woodroom blinds and his
Speaker 1: name is will Stein, not Curls or hat. Another one, Cariese,
Speaker 1: is in with that young man. He has feathered Kennedy's
Speaker 1: style hair, I would say, and he goes, we're in there.
Speaker 1: We're trying to become better. All we want to be
Speaker 1: is better, and Creasy goes, well, Sam rape three women
Speaker 1: and the guy gets shaky and goes, I know nothing
Speaker 1: about that. Creasy says it's illegal to lie to a cop.
Speaker 1: And the guy says, I didn't ask to be a
Speaker 1: part of this, and he goes, it's not my fault.
Speaker 1: My father rapes somebody, and now I inherited his genes.
Speaker 1: He just wants to do the right thing and make
Speaker 1: sure the evil never manifests, and that's why he goes
Speaker 1: to these meetings. He wants to control his urges increase.
Speaker 1: He goes, I feel for you, but I'm not a
Speaker 1: priest and I'm not a therapist. I'm a cop, okay,
Speaker 1: and I'm here to talk about crimes, actual crimes. So
Speaker 1: one more time, are you going to tell me anything
Speaker 1: about Sam Dalton or no? And he says no. Solemn
Speaker 1: music plays Barba Leaves and Benson is low at her
Speaker 1: desk looking at baby Noah in a frame. So now
Speaker 1: Benson and Rollins are with Dalton and they're like, we
Speaker 1: have evidence you rape three women, and they take photos
Speaker 1: of the victims out and display them on the table
Speaker 1: and he's smart though. He's like, well, if you do,
Speaker 1: then why aren't you arrested me? And Benson goes, well,
Speaker 1: we want to hear your side of the story. She's like,
Speaker 1: you're in this group, you're obviously remorseful, you know, maybe
Speaker 1: you want to come clean, get the guilt and shame
Speaker 1: off your chest. And he's like, oh, confess you say okay,
Speaker 1: and Rollins is like got you, and you're going away
Speaker 1: and if you want a deal, you better say something
Speaker 1: to us. And they're trying their tag teaming. They're like
Speaker 1: trying everything, like maybe it'll make you feel good and
Speaker 1: he says, you know what would make me feel good,
Speaker 1: A thick steak, and Benson goes, yeah, you're not alone
Speaker 1: in that, but I don't think that's gonna happen for
Speaker 1: you right now, And he gets up tense music, grabs
Speaker 1: his jacket from the back of the chair. He's really
Speaker 1: super casual and confident, and they ask where he's going.
Speaker 1: He says home. They stand up and say, no, that
Speaker 1: ship has sailed. You're under arrest for trespassing. You weren't
Speaker 1: allowed to be in that warehouse, private property, and you
Speaker 1: had weed in your pocket and it's twenty seventeen. I
Speaker 1: think it was like decriminalized. But like whatever, they're playing
Speaker 1: dirty whatever. I like what's happening. I'm turned on. I
Speaker 1: like them working together. But he says lawyer right away.
Speaker 1: But then once they handcuff him, like they look at
Speaker 1: each other like, oh my god, I can't believe we
Speaker 1: got away with that. Like they it seemed like this
Speaker 1: was not a plan and they were flying by the
Speaker 1: seat of their pants. Like Benson kind of breathes a
Speaker 1: sigh of relief and makes eyes of like, Okay, I
Speaker 1: guess I'm now yeah, but I think this is one
Speaker 1: of my favorite scenes of all time, and I don't
Speaker 1: know why we don't talk about it more So, Benson
Speaker 1: has some good news for suspenders. Barbara, okay, like we
Speaker 1: have all the victims remember his face and have I
Speaker 1: d'd him, and his voice and the stench of cheap cigars,
Speaker 1: and they're excited to testify and put him away. They
Speaker 1: cannot wait to get his ass The crime lab confirmed
Speaker 1: the DNA as a match to all three vics, and
Speaker 1: Barbara goes, ah, you're too kind, and we know it's
Speaker 1: too good to be true. And I assume it's going
Speaker 1: to be a poisonous fruit tree situation. And a woman
Speaker 1: walks in. It's a court processor and it's a blue
Speaker 1: folded paper and Barbera's opening and you know it's emotion
Speaker 1: to suppress. The confession to the therapy group is inadmissible.
Speaker 1: But in my head, I go, who gives a shit.
Speaker 1: We don't need the confession. We have all these other things.
Speaker 1: And they brought everyone from the group in. They brought
Speaker 1: everyone in, so they questioned everyone in the group. Basically
Speaker 1: they're saying this like old man is a clergyman, congregant privilege,
Speaker 1: and Benson goes, that's a stretch. So now what he says,
Speaker 1: We're screwed, And I was right. It's the poisonous tree situation.
Speaker 1: And so I don't and yeah, whatever, the fruit of
Speaker 1: the poisonous tree, and I don't.
Speaker 3: I really like that.
Speaker 1: It's like such a fun one, but I just feel
Speaker 1: like they brought everyone in and they have a lot
Speaker 1: without the confession.
Speaker 3: So I kind of hate this little thing.
Speaker 1: But we have a sad little rapist boy and he's
Speaker 1: sitting like a baby, and we hear a lawyer say
Speaker 1: he grew up an abusive household, violent dad, YadA YadA,
Speaker 1: drug addictions, sexual assault, His dad's in jail. He doesn't
Speaker 1: have impulse control, but he's determined to do something about it.
Speaker 1: The lawyer Greg jermyn German whatever, he's from, Ally McBeal,
Speaker 1: we should get him. He's also in sixty five episodes
Speaker 1: of Grays, and he's in four episodes as SVW defense
Speaker 1: attorney Derek Strauss and he's been working since nineteen eighty five.
Speaker 1: I'm obsessed. And then Barba's like, I'm sorry, why is
Speaker 1: this relevant? Judge agrees, but he just wants to show
Speaker 1: context for the therapy group, and he's like the sting happened.
Speaker 1: It's fucked up, and the music is getting dramatic. We
Speaker 1: know what's gonna happen. Barbara gets up. He's disgusted. He says,
Speaker 1: the men talking about who they want to rape and
Speaker 1: who they've raped is barely a religious therapy thing. Okay,
Speaker 1: fuck you in a warehouse and they yell at each other.
Speaker 1: It gets wild. The defense keeps going on about the
Speaker 1: First Amendment. Barbara screams, a carpet cleaning a warehouse. Thank god,
Speaker 1: we know what it is. I mean, it was killing me,
Speaker 1: it was killing me. So it's a carpet cleaning place.
Speaker 3: Oh my god. So I walk home with a different comic.
Speaker 1: She lives on the Lower East Side, Like I walk
Speaker 1: home with her late at night from the cellar often
Speaker 1: and the same street, and for some reason, all the
Speaker 1: business's lights were on that are usually off. So we
Speaker 1: got to kind of like look into businesses and we
Speaker 1: saw a newspaper delivery like window front so vintage. I
Speaker 1: looked them up. I looked at all the newspapers they
Speaker 1: have what delivery? And we looked in and there was
Speaker 1: like hip looking dudes work in organizing the things.
Speaker 3: It's like what paper.
Speaker 1: All of them. It's like all of them from across
Speaker 1: the of the world. Like it's newspaper. It's like general
Speaker 1: newspaper delivery, so retro. But it really kind of peaked
Speaker 1: my interest because we usually don't see it Outberts Newspaper Delivery.
Speaker 1: Newspaper distribution center opens at two am. Yeah, it's two
Speaker 1: am to noon. Yeah, and the guys I was scared
Speaker 1: because my brain is broken, but we waved at them
Speaker 1: through the window. Yeah, it's like t T twenty five
Speaker 1: different papers.
Speaker 3: Wow. Crazy.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wonder who like the clients are. But there's
Speaker 1: order forms, student order forms. Yeah, they bundle it, no
Speaker 1: extra charge. I just hadn't seen it. It's just like
Speaker 1: wild when you do the same walk over and over
Speaker 1: and you still get to find something new. And then
Speaker 1: obviously I stood with my friend on the street corner
Speaker 1: and then as I'm walking more home, I run into
Speaker 1: multiple people I know, we know WHOA. I also sat
Speaker 1: in the park with a different friend and I ran
Speaker 1: into two other people. I just like love the city. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and finding a vintagital newspaper place. I'm going to try
Speaker 1: to look in there all the time. Now, I'm like,
Speaker 1: I love it, Okay, whatever, it's a carpet cleaning where else.
Speaker 1: Thank you to the writer who added this, I really
Speaker 1: appreciate it. So now, okay, we know it's gonna be
Speaker 1: a nightmare. The judge's questioning him, but he's prepped and ready,
Speaker 1: and they put the old man on the stand and
Speaker 1: he goes, we do the Lord's prayer, and you know,
Speaker 1: we help those that are prone to violence, and we
Speaker 1: help them with shame and complex issues. I'm a founder,
Speaker 1: I'm a minister, but motherfucker, you don't have degrees or training.
Speaker 1: Like the tone might feel spiritual, but it doesn't fucking matter.
Speaker 1: And to me, I'm like, this guy's raped too, Like
Speaker 1: why are we not investigating this old man? And Barba
Speaker 1: is sitting and he's so rude. He goes, what's your
Speaker 1: occupation and he goes, I think of myself is a
Speaker 1: man of God. And he goes, well, I see you
Speaker 1: as a private security guard who works at a topless
Speaker 1: to night club called Bunnies. And he goes, well, no,
Speaker 1: I work for a security company. And they tell him
Speaker 1: where to report and he goes, well, you've reported to
Speaker 1: the same place and one hundred percent of your income
Speaker 1: is from Bunnies. Is that not true? And he goes,
Speaker 1: you preach for free, right, it's a hobby. And Barbara
Speaker 1: stands up, leans both hands on the table and like
Speaker 1: the old guy, IY is stunned and humiliated, and his
Speaker 1: hairdoo is also very Roger Rabbit, bad guy like split
Speaker 1: up top situation, and Barbara goes some men golf, some
Speaker 1: men collect wine, and you preach and he goes, I
Speaker 1: preach because I have a desire to help others and
Speaker 1: I'm good at it and whatever. Barbara is like, you
Speaker 1: have a dot com certificate. No one gives a shit.
Speaker 1: So now it's a Benson Barbara walk and talk and
Speaker 1: they're losing and Benson's fuming. The judge went with it,
Speaker 1: case law case law, YadA YadA. The DNA is out,
Speaker 1: the victims, everything's out, and I'm like, but I disagree
Speaker 1: with this, like what is actually going wrong?
Speaker 3: And then Barbara does prove.
Speaker 1: Me wrong and he's right, and I get it now
Speaker 1: because if it wasn't for Nick's improper disclosure, we wouldn't
Speaker 1: have even known who he was or what he looked like.
Speaker 1: So that's why the photo and the IDs are no good.
Speaker 1: So they have nothing. So now I kind of get it.
Speaker 1: So now it's like, can we use anyone else in
Speaker 1: the therapy group, you know? But Barbara goes, well, they're
Speaker 1: all tainted, and Benson goes except for one will. He
Speaker 1: has no priors, his DNA match, no outstanding rape kits.
Speaker 1: He has a great job, and he looks like an
Speaker 1: eagle scout, you know. So we go to Grand Media Consulting.
Speaker 1: We go to talk to him. He's shocked to see them.
Speaker 1: He's obviously stressed. There's a young woman named Alison with him.
Speaker 1: She's wearing a flowy dress and a big chunky necklace,
Speaker 1: and he's like, oh, we work together. And he's in
Speaker 1: a short sleeve flannel with a vest on top, and
Speaker 1: he's startled. They do a classic like, oh, he's just
Speaker 1: a good Samaritan and we need his help. He's not happy.
Speaker 1: I keep saying the same thing. He's startled. He's not happy. Obviously,
Speaker 1: he's at work and he wants to rape. And the
Speaker 1: cops are here, and so they assure him. They're like,
Speaker 1: you're not a rapist, bro, And they're like, have you
Speaker 1: talked to adults and outside the meetings? And Chreasey goes,
Speaker 1: you don't owe him anything. He is a predator, he's
Speaker 1: everything that you're working so hard not to become. That's
Speaker 1: good crazy, and he goes, but if you protect him,
Speaker 1: he will do it again and that rape will be
Speaker 1: on you, okay, and he goes, fine, fine. We have
Speaker 1: coffee once at a diner and he said that the
Speaker 1: victims enjoy it. And then now we're directly in Barba's
Speaker 1: fancy pants office and he discloses to like everybody, that
Speaker 1: he wanted to punch you know, Sam in the face,
Speaker 1: but he didn't. He's really scary and he goes, you know,
Speaker 1: and I'm not that tough. Barba asks if he told
Speaker 1: him that he raped three women, and he goes, correct,
Speaker 1: and nobody was around. It was just the two of us.
Speaker 1: So they call the three victims back. The case is
Speaker 1: back on, let's testify, let's go to court. Think you will,
Speaker 1: you're saving the case, and Benson nods at him in approval.
Speaker 1: Barba is presenting to the jury and has the three
Speaker 1: victims photo on the screen and says the evidence is overwhelming,
Speaker 1: and so you know, he's sitting at the table squirming,
Speaker 1: and Barbara goes, that's a violent and impulsive man. Fuck him.
Speaker 1: Heizzed everywhere. They're like, we found the ji's on the victim,
Speaker 1: in the victim everywhere, and Barbara is a very night stalker.
Speaker 1: And Barbara, I did it. Barbara is crushing his opening statement.
Speaker 1: He's going for full extent of the law tense music.
Speaker 1: The women testify, they give the details of the attacks,
Speaker 1: they point his ass out, and the defense, of course,
Speaker 1: is being like the worst, you know, like discrediting all
Speaker 1: the women, nitpicking little pieces. Barbara is getting frustrated and
Speaker 1: in a rage listening. I'm in a rage too. One
Speaker 1: was drunk and she's like, I had four glasses of wine,
Speaker 1: Like shut the fuck up. So now we call Will
Speaker 1: onto the stand. Rollins opens the door though and shakes
Speaker 1: her head. Will is nowhere to be found, so we
Speaker 1: need a break. The judge gives it to him. So
Speaker 1: they're calling him. He's not picking up, he's not at work,
Speaker 1: he's not at his apartment.
Speaker 3: Where is he? We have no case without him.
Speaker 1: So Cariese and Barbara I have a fight in the
Speaker 1: courthouse halls and it's like a big dick situation. I
Speaker 1: think Careese's in law school at this point. So then
Speaker 1: Careese says something of like oh, I understand, and Barbara goes,
Speaker 1: I don't care if you understand, and they get like,
Speaker 1: I don't know where you're not kind of attracted to
Speaker 1: Careese and his aggressiveness in the halls, or like I
Speaker 1: feel like you think he's a dope and a loser.
Speaker 1: But he kind of got like it kind of got
Speaker 1: heated and hot.
Speaker 2: Well, I just felt like he was like I handed
Speaker 2: you a perfect case. And it's like Barbara didn't really
Speaker 2: do anything wrong. So I don't know why you're getting
Speaker 2: so mad at him. Well, because he goes, I don't
Speaker 2: care what you understand.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because Caresee is just like a dork, right, Like
Speaker 1: that's what you know.
Speaker 3: Crisey's like, oh I get it, Okay, I.
Speaker 1: Get the law, and then and then him being like
Speaker 1: I don't care if you get it or not, like
Speaker 1: no one cares about your little law prowess and that
Speaker 1: you're at fordom I went to Harvard, you know, like, oh,
Speaker 1: he's big timing. I think Barbara's big timing him and
Speaker 1: condescending him, and Carisy goes, you know what, motherfucker, Like
Speaker 1: we're the ones that are out there trying to get stuff.
Speaker 1: You fucked this up, like go fuck yourself, you know,
Speaker 1: like you lost it in court, you threw you got
Speaker 1: this throw out, and now you're giving it to us.
Speaker 1: So I kind of like it. You know what else
Speaker 1: is hot? And this is crazy? You know, I've been
Speaker 1: in my like Tricksy and caughtya a moment. There was
Speaker 1: an episode where Trixie's wearing a Bucky's sweatsuit.
Speaker 2: Oh, I see, I only listen. I never watch it,
Speaker 2: but go on nothing.
Speaker 1: I wanted to fuck him, like, I was like, Trixy
Speaker 1: is the hottest guy I've ever seen, and he had
Speaker 1: like a Bucky's beanie on, and.
Speaker 3: I was like, damn whatever.
Speaker 1: Barbara is condescending and Carasey's in a rage and I
Speaker 1: don't care. And so then now Rollins is chasing after
Speaker 1: Carisy on the courtroom steps and Crasy's like, I don't
Speaker 1: care about Barbara, but I gave him a good fucking
Speaker 1: case and he fucked it up, so like, shut the
Speaker 1: fuck up. So now we go to Will's friend Alice
Speaker 1: and she's like, I don't know where he is, maybe
Speaker 1: with the preacher, like they're clothes. So we got to
Speaker 1: go find the old man. And the old man is
Speaker 1: a motherfucker and He goes, yeah, I told him not
Speaker 1: to testify, and Rollins goes, are you out of your
Speaker 1: fucking mind? That's witness tampering. He goes, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: help him. So the old guy goes, yeah, but Will
Speaker 1: needs the group so he can't betray us or he'll
Speaker 1: have a fall out with us and chrease. He goes,
Speaker 1: well he can find an actual professional, how about that,
Speaker 1: and then Rollins pops off, fuck you, three women were
Speaker 1: rape genetics or not. This guy needs to be punished
Speaker 1: and we need Will for that, so fuck you and
Speaker 1: you better help us, and the old man obviously does,
Speaker 1: and we find Will on a roof he wants to jump.
Speaker 1: He goes, if I'm a good person, I'll just kill
Speaker 1: myself so I don't hurt an innocent woman. I'm twenty
Speaker 1: five and I never kissed a girl because I'm afraid
Speaker 1: of what I might do to her. And he can't
Speaker 1: suppress it anymore, and Rollin's goes, fuck mister Witt, And
Speaker 1: that's the first time I didn't call him old man.
Speaker 1: And I hope no one in his life is listening
Speaker 1: to this episode, and I hope he definitely does not
Speaker 1: hear a snippet.
Speaker 3: So mister Witt is not an actual prof.
Speaker 1: And yeah, that's that's what everyone needs to Everyone needs
Speaker 1: to get a real clinical sex therapist in that group.
Speaker 3: They cannot be meeting in carpets. This guy, though, has not.
Speaker 2: He says he's never even kissed a girl, so it's
Speaker 2: like he just has maybe thoughts that have been put
Speaker 2: in his head by these guys. Yeah that it's like,
Speaker 2: then everybody that's related to a rapist, this is gonna
Speaker 2: this is just gonna happen, so you might as well
Speaker 2: try to like head it off at the past when
Speaker 2: it's like it also cannot happen, you know, like, yeah, he's.
Speaker 3: Like I have the gene. You can't do the g
Speaker 3: and the gene increase.
Speaker 1: Yahs are like trying to help him, but you know
Speaker 1: what they need, you know what they need. Benson comes
Speaker 1: walking in. Her dad's a rapist and she's about to connect.
Speaker 1: So she tells him my father was a rapist. I've
Speaker 1: been dealing with it my whole life, but that doesn't
Speaker 1: make me bad or evil? How do the stories and
Speaker 1: group make you feel? Rollin's ads and he says, absolutely disgusted,
Speaker 1: And they're like that's good. Your repulse by it. That's
Speaker 1: good because you're not a rapist. Okay, will you're good?
Speaker 1: And he's thinking about it and he has fur on
Speaker 1: the hood. I'm like, did they run out of jackets?
Speaker 3: Like? Why are they giving him a fur lined hood?
Speaker 1: Do men wear them? Maybe I'm being rude, Like I'm
Speaker 1: being rude. Okay, so creasey to me. Cursey pulls him
Speaker 1: down and tells him he's okay and hugs him.
Speaker 3: Now they're in court.
Speaker 1: He testifies Sam told him it's okay to assault and
Speaker 1: rape women as long as you ask for forgiveness. After
Speaker 1: he told him he was wrong, that raping someone is horrible,
Speaker 1: and Sam smiled and goes, well, you just don't get it,
Speaker 1: and that the women enjoy it. And he said that
Speaker 1: he did rape three women. And it cuts to everyone's faces.
Speaker 1: Everyone has an emotion. And now Benson and Barbara they're outside.
Speaker 1: They're having thoughts about the urges and warnings omens. Something's
Speaker 1: bads to come.
Speaker 3: Whatever.
Speaker 1: We get a phone call and we know what it is.
Speaker 1: No NOFL no FL. He cut his knee. Okay, well
Speaker 1: cut his knee, so he must be a rapist. So
Speaker 1: now Noah's in bed, and he says, hi, mommy, and
Speaker 1: she gives him a cute good night and says, I
Speaker 1: love you no matter what, No matter what, Noah, even
Speaker 1: if you rape JK. Good night, sweet boy. She closes
Speaker 1: the door and we cut to Noah's sleeping and Benson
Speaker 1: looks worried. She looks worried, and it's dick Wolf baby
Speaker 1: and it's Toddler Noah, the only Noah that we like that.
Speaker 1: I like, he's our favorite, but I Baby Noah's fine too.
Speaker 1: I like baby Noah's fine, but I like Toddler Noah.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: It's like, I don't really understand why this man Sam
Speaker 1: would be in this group. He doesn't seem very remorseful.
Speaker 1: He doesn't seem well because it exonerates him. So in
Speaker 1: his head he just asks for forgiveness.
Speaker 2: So if he goes and talks to these random man
Speaker 2: and a warehouse, that's the forgiveness.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Like to him, it's like, oh, well, I'm trying to
Speaker 1: get better, so that's all that matters is I'm trying.
Speaker 1: These people enjoy it, so it does. I don't know,
Speaker 1: You're right, why would he be in the group? Yeah,
Speaker 1: I don't know.
Speaker 2: He doesn't seem like he's trying very hard to stop,
Speaker 2: and he's like really cocky and shitty with the cops.
Speaker 1: Like a thick steak, you know, like I don't. I
Speaker 1: don't like him. I also don't like a thick steak.
Speaker 1: I don't like a finlay. I like a prime rib. Okay,
Speaker 1: I don't know the difference.
Speaker 3: I'm so BHere. Oh my god.
Speaker 1: Last night before bed, I was zooming in and reading
Speaker 1: the menu. I don't know why I was zooming in though, whatever.
Speaker 1: I read the full menu of Travis Kelsey's steakhouse.
Speaker 3: He has a steakhouse.
Speaker 1: Him and Patrick Mahomes just opened a steakhouse in the
Speaker 1: Lowe's Hotel in Kansas City.
Speaker 3: I'm gonna make a reservation for February. You know it.
Speaker 3: I'm already picking out what I'm saying.
Speaker 1: Okay, there's a dress code.
Speaker 3: WHOA, that's cool.
Speaker 2: I love a good steakhouse as a as a vegetarian,
Speaker 2: love the sides as a pescatarian.
Speaker 1: They usually have a great piece of fish. I like steakhouses.
Speaker 3: I do too.
Speaker 1: Okay, let's get into the true crime now, I know.
Speaker 1: I'm curious. Is a carpet cleaning manufacturing business involved in No.
Speaker 2: Unfortunately, not a carpet warehouse to be seen.
Speaker 1: But like I said, I mentioned on this podcast a
Speaker 1: long time ago that I did have sex at a
Speaker 1: perfume factory once in New York. I wonder if that's
Speaker 1: what started all of this allergy stuff with the fragrances.
Speaker 3: Kicked it off.
Speaker 1: That's kind of fun, and I guess there's I guess
Speaker 1: there's like a trend where someone sent me, like, uh,
Speaker 1: to have a party and the theme is you dress
Speaker 1: like your type.
Speaker 3: I like, that's pretty fun, and I'm like, I guess
Speaker 3: that would be comfortable.
Speaker 1: And then I'm like, would I just be wearing a
Speaker 1: UPS outfit and that was probably USPS.
Speaker 3: I think I'd show up as a mailman. Love it?
Speaker 3: Love it?
Speaker 2: Okay, So this episode True Crime, like I said, I mean,
Speaker 2: the episode's called Genes. They talk a lot about the genetics,
Speaker 2: but really there is no proof that there is any
Speaker 2: kind of gene like this, and they don't mention it
Speaker 2: in the show. And then there's it basically just turns
Speaker 2: into a nature versus nurture debate, which you could debate
Speaker 2: all day.
Speaker 3: Long and I'm not going to do that.
Speaker 2: The case that this is based on the specific case
Speaker 2: they actually reference. In the episode, Barbara brings up Paul Cox.
Speaker 2: He says that name, and this is the story of
Speaker 2: that case.
Speaker 3: That's so interesting.
Speaker 1: I heard him say it and I went, I'm going
Speaker 1: to pretend it didn't I didn't hear it. Yeah, that's
Speaker 1: for me. I can't believe that's the crime. I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I should look this up, but just yeah, no, I
Speaker 1: ignore it from my notes.
Speaker 2: And it's like, no, this is like, this is good.
Speaker 2: I mean, this is I had not heard of this case.
Speaker 2: And this is also called the Blackout murders. I do
Speaker 2: know Karen and Georgia covered this A lot of you
Speaker 2: like to tell me and when Karen or Georgia covers
Speaker 2: the case, And yes, they have done this one as well.
Speaker 2: But on December thirtieth of nineteen eighty eight, Paul Cox
Speaker 2: was twenty one years old. He went out drinking with
Speaker 2: friends in Westchester County, New York. This is all taking
Speaker 2: place pretty close to where I grew up, like just
Speaker 2: you know, right outside the city, like not that far
Speaker 2: from the Connecticut border. After a lot of drinks, they
Speaker 2: had a lot of drinks. They were drinking pictures, mixed drinks,
Speaker 2: He and his friends got in Paul's car and then
Speaker 2: he like drove into a fucking tree or he drove
Speaker 2: into like an embankment or something like that. He crashed
Speaker 2: his mom's car, and then his friends were like, we're
Speaker 2: going back to the bar, and he's like, I'm going
Speaker 2: to keep walking and I'm going to walk home at
Speaker 2: two am.
Speaker 3: So now it's December thirty.
Speaker 2: First it's New Year's Eve of nineteen eighty eight, but
Speaker 2: it's the morning of it. He passes his old childhood
Speaker 2: home in Larchmont, New York, which his parents had sold
Speaker 2: over a decade earlier. He had not lived in that
Speaker 2: house since he was like seven years old or something
Speaker 2: like that. Yeah, And in the midst of an alcoholic blackout,
Speaker 2: he breaks into the home. He takes a knife from
Speaker 2: the home and he stabbed the new occupants to death.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yes, and then he slits their throats.
Speaker 2: And the victims are doctor lakshman Rau Chervu and doctor
Speaker 2: Shanta Chervu, a married couple Indian immigrants, super hard working,
Speaker 2: had like come to America and just like made the
Speaker 2: American dream come true and had these kids that were
Speaker 2: really success and end up being really successful and doctors
Speaker 2: and stuff, and he's and they're just killed. Some articles
Speaker 2: I read said that he killed them in their sleep,
Speaker 2: but others said that she woke up saw him, he
Speaker 2: killed her, and then the husband woke up and he
Speaker 2: killed him.
Speaker 3: So I think they were awake, But it depends on
Speaker 3: what articles read.
Speaker 1: But the fucked up thing is he apparently none of
Speaker 1: that's fucked up. What's doubly fucked up, I guess I mean,
Speaker 1: is he thought he was killing his own parents. He
Speaker 1: was like he thought he was rage killing his own parents,
Speaker 1: Like I think he was back in his old childhood home.
Speaker 1: And apparently he's he grew up very privileged.
Speaker 3: This kid.
Speaker 2: I think he's from a family of I think five
Speaker 2: kids or something. He's dyslexic, so he's he's having a
Speaker 2: harder time in school, and apparently his parents are extremely
Speaker 2: critical over him about it, like they are harping on
Speaker 2: him all the time, and it made him develop like
Speaker 2: a hatred for.
Speaker 3: Them, and so he wasted.
Speaker 2: At twenty one, wanders in and says, these are my
Speaker 2: parents in their bedroom because that was their bedroom when
Speaker 2: he was really small. I don't know, And he left
Speaker 2: his fingerprints everywhere. He tried to clean up a bit,
Speaker 2: but he did leave his fingerprints places, but he had
Speaker 2: no record, and so the crime went unsolved for four years. No, yeah,
Speaker 2: no one could figure out who did this crime for
Speaker 2: four years. I mean again, this is late eighties. I
Speaker 2: don't know how much DNA being used yet, but blood
Speaker 2: at least like they're they're not nothing to compare it to.
Speaker 2: So he tried to clean up a little bit. He
Speaker 2: threw the knife into the Long Island Sound. He incinerated
Speaker 2: the clothes he was wearing the next morning. Okay, so
Speaker 2: two years go by, in nineteen ninety, he joined probably.
Speaker 3: Face Seattle like he got away with it, Yes.
Speaker 2: But he claims he has no memory of it, that
Speaker 2: it's a full blackout.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but why did he get rid of evidence then
Speaker 1: and clean stuff up?
Speaker 2: I think it's like he says, he woke up and
Speaker 2: he's covered in blood and he's like fuck, and he
Speaker 2: got like and he got rid of everything, but he
Speaker 2: doesn't remember doing it, allegedly fierating, incinerating. I know, I
Speaker 2: know exactly, I hear you. In nineteen ninety, he joins, aa.
Speaker 2: I mean I also think he had like a period
Speaker 2: of very heavy drinking for like at least five years.
Speaker 2: In A in nineteen ninety he starts, he joins AA,
Speaker 2: he starts sobering up, and it's at that point that
Speaker 2: he starts suffering from these very vivid, anxiety ridden dreams
Speaker 2: where he's having flashbacks that lead him to believe that
Speaker 2: he may have been the one that killed the chair
Speaker 2: of the family. Because in the morning there's even an
Speaker 2: article that said that in the morning he woke up
Speaker 2: when it was on the news, not the morning, but
Speaker 2: maybe the next day or whatever, and he was like,
Speaker 2: oh my god, mom and dad, look what happened at
Speaker 2: our old house. Like he called his family over, like
Speaker 2: he did not remember that he did it. And so
Speaker 2: as he's sobering up, all the shit starts coming back
Speaker 2: to him in flashbacks, and he starts he tells his girlfriend,
Speaker 2: he tells his sponsor, and at AA meetings he reveals
Speaker 2: it to as many as seven people that he thinks
Speaker 2: he might have committed these murders. Even though anonymity and
Speaker 2: confidentiality are core tenets of AA in nineteen ninety three,
Speaker 2: I can't find out whether it was one member or
Speaker 2: a couple of members of that AA group. Contact authorities
Speaker 2: and they tell them what Cox has said in these
Speaker 2: meetings about how he killed this couple, and he is
Speaker 2: eventually indicted for second degree murder. In nineteen ninety four,
Speaker 2: he stands trial for the murders, and the attorneys tried
Speaker 2: to argue that he was temporarily insane at the time
Speaker 2: of the crime, and they also try to get the
Speaker 2: testimony of his fellow AA members thrown out, arguing that
Speaker 2: the privilege is akin to that between a therapist or
Speaker 2: a clergyman. Almost wish that there was no privilege at all,
Speaker 2: Like I feel like, yes, you should be able to
Speaker 2: tell your therapist, but I think if you've committed a
Speaker 2: heinous crime, you have to live with it. You have
Speaker 2: to live with the secret inside of yourself. And you
Speaker 2: can tell anybody that you feel like you can trust,
Speaker 2: but that's you have to live with the fact that
Speaker 2: they could tell someone.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I just think I think it's so crazy you could
Speaker 2: just go to a priest and tell them that you
Speaker 2: did something and that they can't say anything like what.
Speaker 2: And I do think that there is a thing with
Speaker 2: a therapist where if you've harmed someone, I do think
Speaker 2: that they can tell But I don't know.
Speaker 3: Maybe not like if you're going to be a danger
Speaker 3: to yourself or others.
Speaker 2: Yourself for others, Yeah, yeah, But the judge denies the
Speaker 2: motion to exclude the AA member's testimony, and seven members
Speaker 2: of his AA group testified. But in the first trial,
Speaker 2: the jury is deadlocked eleven to one for murder conviction and.
Speaker 1: The eleven I bet it's another AA person or something.
Speaker 2: Well, the eleven jurors went to the judge and said,
Speaker 2: there's one person on the jury who is using emotion
Speaker 2: and not facts, and they won't change their mind. But
Speaker 2: they's the don't motion that this kid was drunk, and
Speaker 2: that he was temporarily insane, and that he had a
Speaker 2: tough childhood where his parents were mean to him for
Speaker 2: being dyslexic or whatever, and that he didn't.
Speaker 3: Knowingly know what he was doing when he did it.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 2: I'm just I'm spitballing what this guy was thinking or girl.
Speaker 2: I don't know who this person was, this other juror,
Speaker 2: But it did end up in a mistrial because of
Speaker 2: a hung jury.
Speaker 3: Then he's a retried. They wasted no time. He's retried.
Speaker 2: Second trial takes place that same year and the motion
Speaker 2: to consider AA like a therapist and squash all that
Speaker 2: testimony is once again denied.
Speaker 3: And then in that.
Speaker 2: Second trial he's convicted of manslaughter. I don't know why
Speaker 2: the change in the charge, but he is sentenced to
Speaker 2: sixteen to fifty years in prison.
Speaker 3: So then that's ninety four.
Speaker 2: I think he goes into jail starting or he's already
Speaker 2: been in prison, but ninety five is his sentence or whatever.
Speaker 2: In two thousand and one, he's been in there six
Speaker 2: or seven years. A new judge, Judge Charles Bryant of
Speaker 2: the US District Court in White Plains, New York, overturns
Speaker 2: the manslaughter conviction, and the judge thought that Cox should
Speaker 2: not have been arrested based on the statements made in
Speaker 2: a religious context, with the understanding they would remain confidential.
Speaker 2: He also cited cases in which the courts have found
Speaker 2: that authorities cannot force prisoners or people on probation to
Speaker 2: attend AAMI meet because they are religious. So basically his
Speaker 2: logic is, if we consider this such a religious organization
Speaker 2: that we cannot mandate people to take to go to
Speaker 2: their meetings, then it is such a religious organization that
Speaker 2: their communication is privileged.
Speaker 3: That was this judge's feeling.
Speaker 2: Basically said, since the courts have found that AA is
Speaker 2: a religion for the purposes of church state separation.
Speaker 1: At the end of the day, if AA is seen
Speaker 1: as like a religious thing, it's like, yeah, all religions
Speaker 1: are bad and protect predators and protect criminals.
Speaker 3: So I'm not saying that's what I mean.
Speaker 2: I don't think there should almost be any protection to
Speaker 2: these people. But this guy says, yeah, since the courts
Speaker 2: have found AA is a religion for the purposes of
Speaker 2: church and state separation, they must also hold that quote
Speaker 2: disclosures of wrongs to fellow members as ordained by the
Speaker 2: twelve steps end quote of the AA program qualify as
Speaker 2: a privilege granted to other religions similarly situated. So AA
Speaker 2: is again though this guy in the episode, it's not AA.
Speaker 2: There's not God. This guy's a minister from some online chirt,
Speaker 2: like you know. I guess they do say a serenity
Speaker 2: prayer at the beginning, so maybe it is vaguely religious.
Speaker 2: But so apparently, Cox had to stay in jail until
Speaker 2: an appeal by Westchester eighty A Janine Piro was filed
Speaker 2: and in two thousand and two, a federal appeals court
Speaker 2: reinstated the conviction. They found that quote, Cox failed to
Speaker 2: establish that his communications to members of AA were made
Speaker 2: in confidence for the purpose of obtaining spiritual guidance end quote,
Speaker 2: Therefore they were not considered privilege under New York law.
Speaker 2: So the petition was dismissed and Cox had to serve
Speaker 2: a minimum of sixteen years, which from nineteen that would
Speaker 2: have been around twenty ten twenty eleven. When I looked
Speaker 2: him up in the inmate look up, it looked like
Speaker 2: he was eligible in twenty eleven, but that he did
Speaker 2: not get parole until March of twenty fifteen, which means
Speaker 2: he would have served about twenty years for these murders. Ay,
Speaker 2: and he think he's out, but then there's also a
Speaker 2: condition release date that was June of twenty twenty one,
Speaker 2: so I wasn't sure whether he got out then in
Speaker 2: twenty fifteen or twenty twenty one. Either way, he's out,
Speaker 2: And yeah, he's like fifty seven now or something like.
Speaker 2: I mean, I'm glad I served a lot of time.
Speaker 3: I am.
Speaker 1: I wish she didn't waste the court's time. But I
Speaker 1: just think it's like crazy that it's like you would say, oh,
Speaker 1: I told this group of people and I have an
Speaker 1: expectation of privacy as a murderer, Like I don't know
Speaker 1: you you did.
Speaker 3: Commit a murder. You murder in their sweep.
Speaker 1: Yeah, very cults because to me, it's like, yeah, if
Speaker 1: your organization tells you to ditch your kids or you're
Speaker 1: in a cult, or give all your money or whatever,
Speaker 1: and then this seems like it too. I can murder
Speaker 1: and you have to keep my secret. Like you're in
Speaker 1: a weird place. You're in a weird place.
Speaker 3: That's what.
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's what's so weird about the guy in the episode,
Speaker 2: the fucking Sam character. But you know, I think that
Speaker 2: guy Will got dragged in the wrong fucking cult. Like
Speaker 2: I don't necessarily think he says my urges, but it's like,
Speaker 2: you've never even kissed a girl?
Speaker 1: How many?
Speaker 3: Like what? Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: Maybe he's like I have vivid dreams about raping every night.
Speaker 2: That's different, you know, but he doesn't say that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but he's gonna get actual help now, I hope. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I'd be good.
Speaker 3: But if it disgusts you, then you're not a like
Speaker 3: those guys get off on it right. What we see
Speaker 3: a lot with the creepy creeps is like they have
Speaker 3: their trophe fees and they like to revisit it.
Speaker 2: And it's a powerfect and they like it all right.
Speaker 2: But we have a great guest, so do not go anywhere.
Speaker 2: Our guest today is an actor who you may know
Speaker 2: from shows like Orange is the New Black, Inside, Amy Schumer, Weep,
Speaker 2: and The Marvelous Missus Masel just a few, like you know,
Speaker 2: barely watched shows. You may know him for his frequent
Speaker 2: appearances also on the Tonight Show, but you know him
Speaker 2: today as the genetically first rapist Nick Brown. Please enjoy
Speaker 2: our chat with the very funny Michael Torpie. Wait, Michael,
Speaker 2: I feel like we have met each other only because
Speaker 2: I was a page at NBC with Nelson Castro and
Speaker 2: then when he started Black twenty and you were in.
Speaker 3: The Black twenty stuff.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I was like, and I know, oh Gorman two,
Speaker 2: So I was like, I feel like amazing I met you.
Speaker 2: I went to high school with Jesse Cantrell. Actually yeah,
Speaker 2: so like, how are you woven in at like so
Speaker 2: much else? I can't tell whether I know you just
Speaker 2: from like UCB, like New York comedy stuff or like
Speaker 2: we've actually met before, but I.
Speaker 4: Mean we were over at NBC so much in those
Speaker 4: early days when when those guys are transitioning from pages
Speaker 4: to like actually having jobs, yeah, dot comedy, when NBC
Speaker 4: was like, we want to make a website.
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh, web series.
Speaker 2: I mean like when everybody was like, this is the
Speaker 2: pipeline to TV is to get a hit web series,
Speaker 2: and then like broad City did it, and then no one.
Speaker 3: Else correct, yes, correct, work did worked a one time.
Speaker 4: Yeah, but I'm sure I'm sure that because we were
Speaker 4: there all the time, and so many NBC page people
Speaker 4: were like helping us out, like starting that.
Speaker 2: Companion, like or at SNL after after parties or something,
Speaker 2: we probably saw each other or something.
Speaker 3: Absolutely, Oh that's funny. Yeah, it's so great.
Speaker 2: And then it's been fun to watch you do all
Speaker 2: these fun shows but also be terrifying in Oranges the
Speaker 2: New Black.
Speaker 4: Yeah, yeah, it's like people look at me and they
Speaker 4: either go, I think that guy's funny or I think
Speaker 4: he's terrifying in a creep and we should lean into
Speaker 4: that part of him.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're the the gun that was like the cliffhanger.
Speaker 3: It was like the gun to your Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we're going into the whole takeover of the prison,
Speaker 1: I mean, and it was wild. I mean the mouse
Speaker 1: is obviously the more haunting of it all, but correct.
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, worse yelling at you in the subway
Speaker 2: during that time.
Speaker 4: You know, they were not being the more disturbing stuff
Speaker 4: with the people that were like, hey, what's up. And
Speaker 4: I'm like, I'm like, you should not be into my
Speaker 4: character at all at all. He's horrible. But more people
Speaker 4: would be like why why do I know you? And
Speaker 4: I'd be like, you're making a weird face. I think
Speaker 4: you think you should hate me. Yeah, here's why, and
Speaker 4: it's an appropriate feeling.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So a lot of people that we talked to are
Speaker 2: like I can always tell by the kind of person
Speaker 2: that approaches me what they know me from. Like, if
Speaker 2: you're coming at me, it's like they know me from
Speaker 2: being like a psycho. But if they are, like they
Speaker 2: know me from being in a Pixar thing or whatever,
Speaker 2: you know, Like, but yeah, because you on SVU, like
Speaker 2: we're talking today about your role as Nick Brown, where
Speaker 2: you're this you know, kind of like sheepish rapist, I
Speaker 2: would say, and like, but then you're also then, like
Speaker 2: just last season, you play like a real stand up
Speaker 2: guy just trying to date, like just a professor trying
Speaker 2: to date another like or therapist or addition another therapists.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and clearly casting knows your range.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but because of your previous work, I was suspicious
Speaker 1: of you immediately, and me too, I was waiting.
Speaker 3: For the turn.
Speaker 2: I was waiting literally doctor Gary Schwartz to have orchestrated
Speaker 2: the entire attack.
Speaker 4: I mean, many people think he should have. I'm open
Speaker 4: to bringing the role back and having that be the
Speaker 4: reveal that I actually I did do it and I
Speaker 4: almost got a wait with it, but no.
Speaker 3: Yeah, gory hear, he's the fake out.
Speaker 1: Do you watch that? But do you watch what you're in?
Speaker 1: Do you watch stuff?
Speaker 3: Yeah? The eyes missing in that one was tough.
Speaker 1: Oh yeah yeah yeah, I rewatched last night and I
Speaker 1: really didn't like the missing eyes.
Speaker 3: No, super gross, super gross.
Speaker 2: So wait is your what was your first foray into
Speaker 2: the Dick World universe?
Speaker 3: Was it Chicago? PD? Uh? Yes? Yeah?
Speaker 4: Yeah, because that was this this this s few episode
Speaker 4: was like was a twenty later.
Speaker 2: I think it was like in the twenty later later
Speaker 2: Team twenty seventeen in Chicago p D I.
Speaker 3: Think was twenty fifteen, twenty sixteen.
Speaker 2: So did they just like they just like were like, hey,
Speaker 2: do you want to come play this? Did they send
Speaker 2: you the Jenes script? And you were like, no, I.
Speaker 4: Thought audition for all this stuff they will hand out.
Speaker 2: I'm surprised for S for You that you did, just
Speaker 2: because they already know you from PD and like I
Speaker 2: feel like once you're in they usually are like, oh,
Speaker 2: you'd be good for this or whatever.
Speaker 4: But yeah, no, all three, all three of my Dick Wolves.
Speaker 4: I gotta earn those roles.
Speaker 3: Yeah, damn, damn, damn.
Speaker 4: I got to learn those sides. I gotta tape that
Speaker 4: tape in my basement these days.
Speaker 3: I gotta get in front of a black white wall
Speaker 3: and send it in.
Speaker 2: Yes. So when you when your manager Adrient calls you,
Speaker 2: is like, Okay, you're gonna be this guy. You're a
Speaker 2: rapist for sure, but you have a gene for it,
Speaker 2: Like what are you thinking?
Speaker 3: You get this like audition?
Speaker 2: When you get the script and you're like seeing all
Speaker 2: how this is all gonna play out?
Speaker 4: This was I mean, no, no shade to like S
Speaker 4: for You, but like these lines were tough, you know,
Speaker 4: like to be like I was born to be a rapist?
Speaker 3: Tough line. That's a tough one.
Speaker 2: The idea of like you're on set and they're like,
Speaker 2: can we go again from I was Born to be
Speaker 2: a rapist?
Speaker 3: Can we can you hit rapists a little harder? Yeah?
Speaker 4: My buddy saw this episode when it aired and he
Speaker 4: immediately like rewound it and videotaped me saying those lines
Speaker 4: on his phone and he will just he'll just send
Speaker 4: it to me.
Speaker 3: Randomly, and he's like, you have no.
Speaker 4: Idea, what a gift this is that like, at any moment,
Speaker 4: I can send you video of yourself saying these words.
Speaker 3: And how did it feel?
Speaker 1: Like?
Speaker 3: Where did you guys film those meetings?
Speaker 4: When they arrest me? This was weird and I don't
Speaker 4: think normal. But we were shooting in an office that
Speaker 4: was still functioning like they did not. It wasn't like
Speaker 4: they had blocked off this whole building. It wasn't some ability.
Speaker 3: But he gets the day off, stay working ignored.
Speaker 4: Literally they like cleaned out, like these five desks already
Speaker 4: go over here, so like I'm doing this and there
Speaker 4: are people like doing their work nearby.
Speaker 3: It was incredibly weird.
Speaker 1: But how are they not distracted? I would stop typing
Speaker 1: for a moment and watch they.
Speaker 3: May have been.
Speaker 4: It was such a tight shot. It was really just
Speaker 4: like in my Little Cuba. Yeah, so it kept they
Speaker 4: kept the top the shot very small. Do you remember
Speaker 4: industry what they were doing?
Speaker 3: Suits? Suits, suits and desks cubicle.
Speaker 1: Okay, wait, I'm obsessed with that scene because your character
Speaker 1: is such a bad liar, Like you're just like, oh,
Speaker 1: I found out from another guy who works at the bar,
Speaker 1: like you just like you really did play him really well.
Speaker 3: And then you're just like I did it. It was me.
Speaker 3: I fold so quick, it's so faut, like maybe.
Speaker 2: The fastest fold in SPU history. They didn't even get
Speaker 2: you into the dark interrogation. No, correct, No, but it's
Speaker 2: a genetic disposition. So I really, you know, I had
Speaker 2: to come clean. It's just who I am, right, It's
Speaker 2: just just who I was.
Speaker 1: I mean, we can take an SVU break and we
Speaker 1: can talk about VEEP if you'd like to.
Speaker 3: I can chat anything with y'all. Love.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, was that fun? And it was the
Speaker 1: convention episode. I mean, you were really there for some
Speaker 1: fun days.
Speaker 4: I did, Yeah, I did, Like I think four episodes
Speaker 4: of that season before I got dumped.
Speaker 3: It was a blast.
Speaker 4: It was an absolute blast, a room of monster comedy,
Speaker 4: heavy hitters, like just so solid and the most fun
Speaker 4: process that I've ever been a part of in terms
Speaker 4: of TV, because they treat it like they treat it
Speaker 4: more like a play. So like before anything, I went
Speaker 4: out to LA. This is when it still shot in Baltimore.
Speaker 4: But I went out to LA and they just had
Speaker 4: like a hotel ballroom and they set up chairs and
Speaker 4: we just we read it and then we stood up
Speaker 4: and we walked it through, and then we put the
Speaker 4: scripts down and did all sorts of different stuff. It
Speaker 4: just played through it, and because Julia Louis Dreyfuss and
Speaker 4: Tony Hale are brilliant, you get to organically see them
Speaker 4: workout beats and find new moments that like are not
Speaker 4: there in the script. Like there's in one of those episodes,
Speaker 4: there's a great moment where it's when I'm rehearsing my
Speaker 4: kiss with Catherine. We're like trying to figure out how
Speaker 4: to do this kiss at the convention, and we don't
Speaker 4: know how to kiss each other. We're very awkward, and
Speaker 4: they find this moment in rehearsal where Julie Louis Dreyfus
Speaker 4: turns to Tony's character and says, like, how hard is
Speaker 4: it to do a kiss?
Speaker 3: Right?
Speaker 4: And he leans over to her and he's like, I know, right,
Speaker 4: and they just like lingered there for just long enough
Speaker 4: where he gets convinced that maybe she's gonna kiss him,
Speaker 4: but like that is not in the script. That just
Speaker 4: came from them sitting, you know, close enough on a
Speaker 4: couple of chairs in a hotel ballroom to be like,
Speaker 4: you know, no, no, and then some like you knew
Speaker 4: she saw it and was like huh, like hey, yeah,
Speaker 4: like that you almost did you think she was gonna
Speaker 4: kiss you? And he's like I did, and he's like
Speaker 4: play that like that that's a thing, and that you
Speaker 4: don't You don't have that time unless you're working on
Speaker 4: like an HBO comedy that has all this money, because
Speaker 4: every other show you get the job, you show up,
Speaker 4: they're like, let's read the lines, let's shoot that your coverage.
Speaker 4: You're done, have a great day. You know, it's super fast.
Speaker 4: So to have that time to go in advance and
Speaker 4: like really treat it like a play and find all
Speaker 4: these moments was so much.
Speaker 1: Fun and how much time from rehearsal to shooting is there.
Speaker 4: There were weeks we went out, we went out to
Speaker 4: Yeah in Ellie, I think they'll I think they had
Speaker 4: the first two episodes written at that time, so we
Speaker 4: just did it for those like first two to get
Speaker 4: the season rolling and then everything else was I guess
Speaker 4: more standard and that you know you'd have the script,
Speaker 4: but they they still give you so much room to
Speaker 4: play on set, and they kind of have to because
Speaker 4: like that show, the effects, it's it's brilliant and the
Speaker 4: tone is always spot on, but the script changes all
Speaker 4: the time. Like I've never been on a show before
Speaker 4: where I'd be nervous to go to bed because I
Speaker 4: was like, I think revisions are still coming in, like yeah,
Speaker 4: like I've.
Speaker 3: Got to be up at eight am.
Speaker 4: I'd like to go to bed now, But like da,
Speaker 4: I just got an email with a new script, and
Speaker 4: like I just feel like more are going to continue
Speaker 4: to come because they're just always playing. They're always with
Speaker 4: new bits. So I was trying to beat that joke
Speaker 4: so that they're always like fine tuning and finding, like
Speaker 4: let's let's go one more, let's get one bit, let's
Speaker 4: go a little bit harder with this, which is exhilarating,
Speaker 4: but it's also like it's a lot, it's a lot
Speaker 4: to like carry into.
Speaker 3: Like I just I just read this line.
Speaker 2: I feel like I could watch that show series like
Speaker 2: ten times through and still catch new jokes, Like it's
Speaker 2: so crazy.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Orange is a new Black.
Speaker 2: Were you in the first season or second or no, no, later, four,
Speaker 2: fourth or fifth or something?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 4: Okay, so they clean house after three, A lot of
Speaker 4: the guards get fired, Yeah, and then you're the new
Speaker 4: crop with like Latin, the new crops is gone at
Speaker 4: the Butmi Tarvor's Emily Tarvor.
Speaker 3: I come in with Emily Tarvor. Yeah, one of my
Speaker 3: fellow interns that U see be back.
Speaker 4: In the day, Me and Emily right on, Emily's fantastic
Speaker 4: Mike Houston came in my year.
Speaker 3: It was like a whole new batch of guards. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And the big bad bearded guy yeah yeah, yeah, what's
Speaker 1: that same?
Speaker 2: We had enough with him being a psycho and then
Speaker 2: you were bad too, and it.
Speaker 4: Was like no, no, we were in all his little
Speaker 4: like trolls underneath him, like he was the one that
Speaker 4: got on the focus and we all kind of like
Speaker 4: ran around being shitty underneath.
Speaker 3: But didn't the other guards also think you were kind
Speaker 3: of creepy. Yeah, they didn't like.
Speaker 4: My style, like they were still shittheads, but like they
Speaker 4: didn't they didn't like that I was like like a creep, like.
Speaker 2: A possible serial killer, Like yeah.
Speaker 4: I think they were more just like let's like be
Speaker 4: abusive and harass and like sneak drugs and make money.
Speaker 4: And I was like, no, that's not my thing. I
Speaker 4: just want to I just want to be a creep.
Speaker 1: You were on the Eric Andre Show. Do you remember
Speaker 1: your time there?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I do remember my time there, because he.
Speaker 1: Says that Lauren Conrad was like the worst guest, like
Speaker 1: she was the least down with it. Do you remember
Speaker 1: moments like what was your part or were you in
Speaker 1: the prank?
Speaker 3: What was your Yeah? Yeah I did a sketch. Okay,
Speaker 3: what do you remember what it was?
Speaker 4: Yes, it was a faux kids show, like uh, we
Speaker 4: were like, yeah, we're here to like we're in.
Speaker 3: The city and we're like we are energy and let's go.
Speaker 3: Let's go.
Speaker 4: But then we just like wreaked havoc. So we were
Speaker 4: like all like a peppy team of like we're out
Speaker 4: here to spread positive energy and let's go. But then
Speaker 4: we like ran through Central Park just like punching books
Speaker 4: out of people's hands and like shoving them and tripping them.
Speaker 4: And then it culminated with us pulling up in front
Speaker 4: of in front of the Museum of Natural History with
Speaker 4: a van and kidnapping someone. And it was like one
Speaker 4: of the scarier things I've ever had to be part
Speaker 4: of because it looked like a real kidnapping.
Speaker 3: Because they're filming that show. All the hidden camera stuff
Speaker 3: is so good.
Speaker 4: Like one cameraman has a backpack on and there's a
Speaker 4: camera pointing backwards, so he's looking at his monitor here
Speaker 4: with his back to everything that's happening.
Speaker 1: Wow.
Speaker 4: Another guy had was holding a motorcycle helmet and it's
Speaker 4: shooting through the visor of the motorcycle helmet and he's
Speaker 4: just looking down into the motorcycle helmet so he can
Speaker 4: see what he's filming. So everybody on the street, it's amazing.
Speaker 4: Everybody on the street just saw a white fan come
Speaker 4: screeching up right me and two other people jump out
Speaker 4: of the side of the van, grab a kid and
Speaker 4: throw it in the back of a van and drive away.
Speaker 4: And a woman screamed an actor, scream stop them, stop
Speaker 4: them stopping. So people started following the van down the
Speaker 4: street like it was hectic, very svu Adjason.
Speaker 3: Did anyone call the authorities, I don't know.
Speaker 4: They must be ready for those calls or something. And
Speaker 4: people call the cops. I don't know if they go
Speaker 4: back in and just like calm everybody down. We're out
Speaker 4: of there, all sitting in the van and being like,
Speaker 4: what the fuck are we doing? This is this is insane.
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: I talked to Michelle Buteau about being on the show,
Speaker 1: and she's like, it's fucking scary. She goes, you're bothering
Speaker 1: people and you're in the train and it's so tight,
Speaker 1: and he's just so in it and willing, and she
Speaker 1: was She said she was scared.
Speaker 4: She's like, I would never do it again. No, Like
Speaker 4: prank stuff is scary, especially in New York. Like I
Speaker 4: don't want to get punched in the face. I don't
Speaker 4: don't want something to like really try to like be
Speaker 4: a hero, and then I have to be like, I'm
Speaker 4: a this is a bit.
Speaker 3: We're doing it. We're making a comedy show. Don't you
Speaker 3: pretend to kidnap people?
Speaker 1: We needed it got what was it a bad trip?
Speaker 1: It's just so such good pranks. It's really cool.
Speaker 4: No, and he's phenomenal at them, and he's so funny.
Speaker 4: Like you said, he's so committed to them all the time.
Speaker 4: And the best is because he's so he's so into
Speaker 4: it that people believe them. People are like, this is
Speaker 4: really happening, and either they're like they reveal something of themselves,
Speaker 4: like they're into it, or they distance themselves in a
Speaker 4: funny way. He gets the best reactions out of folks.
Speaker 3: One of the greatest pranksters of our generation. Yeah, I
Speaker 3: on IMDb there is a fact. Well they lied and
Speaker 3: said you lived in Brooklyn. But did you do a
Speaker 3: commercial with Michael Jordan? I did? I did?
Speaker 4: Those are those That's how I got my SAG card.
Speaker 4: So my career, we'll say that is ode to Charlie
Speaker 4: Sheen's decline. So Charlie Sheen was doing Haines commercials with
Speaker 4: Michael Jordan.
Speaker 3: It was the two of them.
Speaker 4: They did like a number of them, and that they
Speaker 4: had this rapport back and forth, and that was like
Speaker 4: Haines was selling under pants using these two guys. Charlie
Speaker 4: Sheen like went off the deep end and this is
Speaker 4: like two thousand yeah, yeah, yeah, all that stuff two
Speaker 4: thousand and six, two thousand and seven. So Haines is like, okay,
Speaker 4: and Haines had done commercials with it was like Jordan
Speaker 4: and Matthew Perry, Jordan and Cuba Gooding Junior. So it
Speaker 4: was always like this pairing of Jordan and a celebrity
Speaker 4: and then Charlie Sheen goes insane and I'm putting a
Speaker 4: little bit together here. But Haynes was like, we trust
Speaker 4: Jordan with our brand, but like these other people, we
Speaker 4: don't have like really control over these celebrities in their
Speaker 4: lives and what they do. So let's let's put everything
Speaker 4: behind Jordan and pivot to him and a professional actor.
Speaker 4: So I was this they like distanced themselves from celebrities
Speaker 4: and did a casting for a commercial with Jordan and
Speaker 4: the premise was he's on an airplane and he's getting
Speaker 4: bothered by somebody who knows him. So I, you know,
Speaker 4: was very lucky to book this job, but it was
Speaker 4: absolutely the biggest job of my career at that points.
Speaker 4: But the job that got me my Screen Actors Guild
Speaker 4: card and I went out to la for a couple
Speaker 4: of days and we shot two days with Jordan, like
Speaker 4: it was four hours on each day, and we filmed
Speaker 4: like eight commercials and it was all just me sitting
Speaker 4: with him on an airplane just harassing him about how
Speaker 4: like I know who he is and me thinking like
Speaker 4: I could help him out.
Speaker 3: And it was all about the bacon neck collar. It
Speaker 3: was like their big product was these the collar doesn't bacon.
Speaker 3: But it was an unbelievable job, so much fun to do.
Speaker 3: The director let me like riff and play and kind
Speaker 3: of throw the scripts out and just like sit in
Speaker 3: this character of like annoy this famous person next to you,
Speaker 3: and he would just roll for minutes at a time
Speaker 3: and we would just go and go and go and
Speaker 3: go and go. And then he carved it into these
Speaker 3: little commercials, which was great, and Michael Jordan was like
Speaker 3: fun totally.
Speaker 2: But some athletes are like a little when they try
Speaker 2: to like do not that he was. He's probably more
Speaker 2: the straight man you're doing the funny heavy lifting, but
Speaker 2: some athletes it's I mean.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, he's the star of Space Jam, so.
Speaker 3: True, that's right. Put some respect, put some respect.
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, you know, famously, I haven't seen space Jam.
Speaker 2: It's a blind spot. So I have a space jam lamp.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you remember that.
Speaker 3: I mean I forgot what the aliens alien right now
Speaker 3: in your current home.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because a few blocks away is like a sports timon.
Speaker 1: I have a I like to I like stuff, and
Speaker 1: so I went in and I went.
Speaker 3: I love stuff.
Speaker 1: It was the Monstars as little the little Aliens on
Speaker 1: the lamp and I went, how much is that? And
Speaker 1: he goes, well, that's not for sale, but you can
Speaker 1: have it for like one hundred dollars or half. And
Speaker 1: I go, I'll take it. Oh my god, done, I'll
Speaker 1: take it done free. Honestly, the answer is everything's for sale.
Speaker 1: Apparently you know it's not for sale, but yeah it is. Wait,
Speaker 1: so you were riffing with Michael Jordan. Yeah, and was
Speaker 1: he so big? I remember this commercial?
Speaker 3: Yeah? I mean he is he? I mean what is
Speaker 3: he so big?
Speaker 4: He's physically he's huge, and he's also like the most
Speaker 4: famous person in the world is Michael Jackson.
Speaker 3: I don't know, like you know his outline? Do you
Speaker 3: have next? You wanna where coming to? Have anything coming up?
Speaker 3: You want to right right now?
Speaker 4: The stuff I'm working on the most is tonight's show,
Speaker 4: which is great. You know, it's it's something I can
Speaker 4: specifically plug because it's all day of but I'm like
Speaker 4: part of their monologue team, so like when they need
Speaker 4: a you know, like in a monologue for a late
Speaker 4: night show and they're like, for more on this, we
Speaker 4: go to head of sales for diamond coins and then
Speaker 4: it's like John Smitherson's like, I'm that guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah. A lot of the time for Fallon, which is
Speaker 3: a lot of fun. It's great.
Speaker 4: It's it's such fun work because it is live studio audience,
Speaker 4: which is so rare totally to be in that room,
Speaker 4: feel that energy, get those laughs, feel that instant feedback,
Speaker 4: and it's it's exciting because it all happens in the moment.
Speaker 4: Like I get a call around eleven thirty or newish
Speaker 4: to be like, are you available today? An idea just
Speaker 4: came together, Yeah, and then I go in there. I
Speaker 4: get the thirty rock around two PM, go through wardrobe
Speaker 4: and makeup. I rehearsed at three, rehearse with Fallon at four,
Speaker 4: and then tape the show at five and then I'm
Speaker 4: home by six. So it's like this whirlwind thing, which
Speaker 4: is so much fun. It's a blast. You're on call
Speaker 4: like a doctor kind of. I mean, they don't expect
Speaker 4: me to like always be available, but I can usually
Speaker 4: move things around and piece other stuff together to make
Speaker 4: myself free.
Speaker 3: But yeah, it's it's very loose.
Speaker 4: It's just you know, when they have the right idea
Speaker 4: and when it makes sense, they give me a ring.
Speaker 4: But it's been great. That's been like the past two years.
Speaker 4: I've been doing a bunch of episodes for them.
Speaker 1: Have you ever been there when it's a celebrity you're
Speaker 1: really excited.
Speaker 4: About Yeah, jeez, I mean you have to be cool
Speaker 4: about it.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: I had my kids there with me a couple of
Speaker 4: weeks ago because it was like this little period between
Speaker 4: where like all of the summer camps are over, but
Speaker 4: school starts on a Thursday, So you have these like
Speaker 4: three days where you're like, I need to be a
Speaker 4: professional and I have children and that I need to
Speaker 4: keep safe and so.
Speaker 2: Somebody would make a billion dollars and they just offered
Speaker 2: a camp for those days, but they don't.
Speaker 3: Feel the camp. They don't just give me that three
Speaker 3: day camp. And how old are they? Nine and five? Oh? Cute?
Speaker 4: Very fun ages, very very fun they were most concerned about, like, well,
Speaker 4: look if we go in there, can we go to Wendy's.
Speaker 3: And I was like, hell, you can.
Speaker 4: So we go to Wendy's, We pick up Wendy's, we
Speaker 4: bring it into the dressing room. They're eating Wendy's. I like,
Speaker 4: do my rehearsal. They're watching it on the screen. I
Speaker 4: was like, did you watch rehearsal? They're like, yeah, you
Speaker 4: were funny. I'm like, great, thank you so much. I
Speaker 4: need that for my ego.
Speaker 3: Hahaha.
Speaker 4: They keep eating Wendy's and then they came and knocked
Speaker 4: down the door to bring me to the second rehearsal.
Speaker 4: Right as they did that, my five year old knocked
Speaker 4: over her whole milkshake. Now, these dressing rooms are beautiful.
Speaker 4: They're like each they're so meticulously like decorated with a
Speaker 4: different theme. The yacht room, the bandroom, everyone has its
Speaker 4: own thing, and there's just milkshake everywhere. So I'm like
Speaker 4: one minute, and I start cleaning it up, and she
Speaker 4: senses it. So my nine year old's like, oh shit,
Speaker 4: we better get on this. So she starts wiping up
Speaker 4: milkshake and I go to the door and my five
Speaker 4: year old looks at me right at the last thing,
Speaker 4: she goes.
Speaker 3: Don't tell.
Speaker 4: I was like, I'll take this to the grape, don't
Speaker 4: worry about it. So we I go out, I do
Speaker 4: the show and everything. I come back and as we're leaving,
Speaker 4: because I like leave after monologue, I don't have to
Speaker 4: stick around, David Byrne is there.
Speaker 3: She's promoting his new album and he.
Speaker 4: Had some huge cutout with like a crazy costume, and
Speaker 4: it caught both their eyes. I'm not allowed to stop
Speaker 4: and be like David Byrne, Oh my god, you know,
Speaker 4: but they can't.
Speaker 3: Yeah, So they were like, what is that? And I
Speaker 3: was like, let's go find now. Children, ask all your
Speaker 3: questions of this man. You don't know. It's amazing.
Speaker 4: So I like use them as a gateway into this
Speaker 4: conversation with David Byrne, which is really fun.
Speaker 3: That's he's a legend. That's fun. And they didn't know
Speaker 3: it was just a fit costume. Yeah, they were like,
Speaker 3: this guy looks crazy. What's going on?
Speaker 2: So you on your two parts on SV did you
Speaker 2: mostly work with like Shannabino.
Speaker 3: Is he arrested you right? Or who? Or no? Yeah?
Speaker 3: And I don't remember to be honest. In the first one,
Speaker 3: I don't remember. It was. All I remember was I
Speaker 3: had very little to do with Mariska.
Speaker 4: In the first one, she I think, just comes in
Speaker 4: in my interrogation scene and I had not met her yet,
Speaker 4: because you know, my scenes are with these other cops,
Speaker 4: the guys that come and arrest me and stuff. And
Speaker 4: I'm sitting in there the little interrogation room and she
Speaker 4: came in. You know, you you read the lines through
Speaker 4: once beforehand, and she came in eating a taco, and
Speaker 4: I was just like, fucking hell, yeah, like working, she's
Speaker 4: just bringing a taco to rehearsal. That's not like how
Speaker 4: in the character. She doesn't like need to rev up
Speaker 4: or anything. She just lives in like Olivia's body. Yeah,
Speaker 4: So I just love like that she rolled in with
Speaker 4: a full taco, had her tackle during rehearsal, and then
Speaker 4: just like pushed the rest in her mouth and was like,
Speaker 4: all right, let's go on.
Speaker 3: I really love that you told that story.
Speaker 4: Yeah, she's good. She's a lot of fun. She was
Speaker 4: so fucking mean to me on this last episode and
Speaker 4: like just very fun, playful ways, you know, like where.
Speaker 3: Was It's like either.
Speaker 4: She's she's and it was before I think she even
Speaker 4: remembered that I'd done an episode before. She's like had
Speaker 4: a feel about me the way I was in there,
Speaker 4: so like after my first take, she was just like, hey,
Speaker 4: you know we're taping these right And I.
Speaker 3: Was like, ah, you fuck her.
Speaker 4: That's like if I was nervous, that would bury me
Speaker 4: right now. But I like, I feel comfortable enough on
Speaker 4: this show and in this room. They're like, I'm okay,
Speaker 4: very interesting that you felt that you could fuck with
Speaker 4: me that bad on my first day on this episode.
Speaker 4: But she was a lot of fun. I got to
Speaker 4: work with her more on this most recent one. We
Speaker 4: had a couple days together. Yeah, she's great. I mean,
Speaker 4: she's so good at what she does, and also she's
Speaker 4: a great person. In that window of time, the documentary
Speaker 4: that she made about her mother was all the press
Speaker 4: was coming out for that on those days that we
Speaker 4: were on setting, so we got to chat about that
Speaker 4: a little bit and just like see the news come
Speaker 4: in about the film. And she's very gracious and very
Speaker 4: kind and a lot of fun. She's like, she's don't
Speaker 4: she's so talented. She's such a force. She's I think
Speaker 4: appreciates when you can like just fucking take some shit
Speaker 4: and like give it back a little bit and play,
Speaker 4: you know, like between takes and just be present and
Speaker 4: be fun and keep it light because when you're actually rolling,
Speaker 4: you're just talking about murder.
Speaker 3: And assault and like the heaviest.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 4: So I think she appreciates when, like, and look, everybody's
Speaker 4: in their own process and does their own stuff, and
Speaker 4: sometimes between takes you need to like go be by
Speaker 4: yourself and be like, oh, I got to kind of
Speaker 4: stay in this pocket, especially what you're doing. And on
Speaker 4: this most recent episode, wasn't a bad guy.
Speaker 3: I was.
Speaker 4: I was this chummy trying to like I was, you know,
Speaker 4: pining after this woman who had been hurt and I'm
Speaker 4: trying to like prove to her that I can be
Speaker 4: there for her. So like that's an easier thing, I think,
Speaker 4: to keep alive a little bit in my body between
Speaker 4: takes as I'm like chatting. And but I think she
Speaker 4: just was appreciative of like having fun between takes and
Speaker 4: being able to chat and just like jump right back
Speaker 4: into it because she can jump right she can just
Speaker 4: be like we're going boom, and she's right there, right where.
Speaker 3: She's feel like you got to keep it light.
Speaker 2: This subject matter can be so heavy that like, yeah
Speaker 2: you can't.
Speaker 3: It's yeah, something's got to give, you know, yeah, you
Speaker 3: can't take it over.
Speaker 2: So now you've been a rapist and a regular guy,
Speaker 2: a nice little dorky therapist man. Now what if you
Speaker 2: were to come back to s few what what do
Speaker 2: you want? What's the next one? I was a killer lawyer?
Speaker 3: What are we thinking?
Speaker 4: I mean, the dream is that my dorky therapist guy
Speaker 4: can be him, like the bead Wong, you know, like
Speaker 4: could come in and start like consulting on a case.
Speaker 3: Needs to bring a beauty Wong back.
Speaker 2: Yeah, the show just got their first female showrunner this
Speaker 2: current season in the history of the show in season
Speaker 2: twenty seven, and she was like an original writer and
Speaker 2: producer on like earlier seasons. And so I think it
Speaker 2: would be great if they they've already started. It feels
Speaker 2: like to go back to some of the old ways.
Speaker 2: And I think it'd be great to bring back a
Speaker 2: beat Wong character.
Speaker 3: We miss the science, yeah, like.
Speaker 1: Knowing the stuff and I feel like I learned so much.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we need you back.
Speaker 4: I'd love to bring in a beaty Wong, but not
Speaker 4: as like he's he was so straight. Like he was,
Speaker 4: you know, very measured and really the science beyond it
Speaker 4: all and very thoughtful. But I would love to bring
Speaker 4: like a like, I don't know, a touch of like
Speaker 4: the what bellser used to bring through it all, like
Speaker 4: just just like a more realistic therapist, just to kind
Speaker 4: of like take the piss out of some of these
Speaker 4: theories sometimes that they have because they can be so
Speaker 4: serious about their the way they're profiling someone. Yeah, and
Speaker 4: if I could come in with like, that's not how
Speaker 4: it works, well, you know, we used to do it
Speaker 4: like that JK. Simmons when JK.
Speaker 2: Simmons was on the original Original Seasons and he was
Speaker 2: on regular Original Recipe, he would was like the therapist
Speaker 2: with the professional.
Speaker 3: Stuff but was also funny. Yeah, that's what I would do.
Speaker 3: That's what I'd love to see.
Speaker 2: Yeh.
Speaker 3: That's one of the things.
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm Kevin Kine's on right now and he's
Speaker 1: bringing some of the funny that I've missed from the
Speaker 1: bellser I Kevin those days. Yeah, we're we had him
Speaker 1: before and he was like and he was like sprinkling.
Speaker 3: He's also played five characters which is a record.
Speaker 1: But now he's played this one, and he was like
Speaker 1: hoping to become a series regular, and now he's in
Speaker 1: the credits, and yeah, we just get really excited.
Speaker 3: Oh it's fantastic. I met him. We both studied at
Speaker 3: Esper Studio.
Speaker 4: And I met him doing all the work on Amy's.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's great. He did our our podcast from Amy's trailer.
Speaker 3: I think.
Speaker 4: Yeah, he had a tough time because like all the
Speaker 4: work we've done has been about like Dixon farts, so
Speaker 4: he had to like knock on this door and have
Speaker 4: me answer the door and talk about like a rape,
Speaker 4: and he was like, this is just not what we
Speaker 4: normally do.
Speaker 3: By I forgot. You guys were together in that Oh
Speaker 3: my god.
Speaker 4: Fun We never we didn't get to like work together
Speaker 4: on Schumer at all, but he was like a producer there,
Speaker 4: so we were always talking through the jokes and and
Speaker 4: you know, work.
Speaker 1: Well and if you met at Esther you probably did
Speaker 1: lots of fun stuff.
Speaker 3: Right.
Speaker 4: Well, we were in different classes. I was, he was
Speaker 4: in Amy's class. I was a year ahead.
Speaker 3: So okay, that's exciting.
Speaker 1: It was, and you like to I'm assuming shift between
Speaker 1: funny and rape.
Speaker 3: I do I do.
Speaker 4: Yeah, so it is. Look I don't. It's they're both
Speaker 4: very fun. It's fun to uh make stuff that's enjoyable
Speaker 4: to watch and comedic and and that you think is
Speaker 4: making people laugh and giving them a good time. And
Speaker 4: it's also fun to be a bad guy.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 4: It is fun to like express those things and explore
Speaker 4: those things and get into the deeper parts of your
Speaker 4: own psyche and think like, what could what could make
Speaker 4: me that upset with? You know, how do I mind
Speaker 4: my own experience for those moments and those feelings.
Speaker 2: Yeah, because some scars that we've interviewed, when they're super
Speaker 2: scary on SVU, they're like little sweethearts in real life.
Speaker 2: So something about stretching your what you're who you are,
Speaker 2: like you're not You're not like the person at all,
Speaker 2: you know, you're it's true true acting.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean I was. I'm kind of like the guy.
Speaker 4: But not not like too much, not too much.
Speaker 3: I like I like carpets, I clean, I clean car. Yeah,
Speaker 3: that's our that's our overlap.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Oh my gosh, this was so fun. Thank you
Speaker 2: so much, Michael. It's so great to plot you.
Speaker 3: Yeah. Great to meet you both and see you again.
Speaker 3: We don't see you again, We'll never know.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously obsessed with him, Obsessed that you guys
Speaker 1: are knew people like. I love that he's funny and
Speaker 1: doing serious work. I yeah, because of his characters, I
Speaker 1: was like, Okay, a little weirdot I think, I mean,
Speaker 1: they're actors, they're actors. But I just really liked him.
Speaker 1: And I also can't believe he was in a commercial
Speaker 1: with Michael Jordan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I also love that. That's kind of one
Speaker 2: of the reasons why. I mean, I obviously want all
Speaker 2: these talented actors to get hired again and again, but
Speaker 2: I think it might not even just be because he
Speaker 2: was in this Jeans episode. It might be because of
Speaker 2: him in Orange is the New Black. But I totally
Speaker 2: thought him in the season twenty six episodes that he did.
Speaker 2: I just totally was the same as you. Like, I
Speaker 2: was like, it's gonna be him. He did it like
Speaker 2: there's something he's too he's.
Speaker 1: Looking too normal and like cute right now, and men
Speaker 1: with a crush are a nuisance, you know, Like I
Speaker 1: was like, this guy's gonna kill her, but no, it
Speaker 1: wasn't him, And he was so fun to talk to.
Speaker 1: Good stories, good details, more marishka context.
Speaker 3: It's nice the taco.
Speaker 1: I mean, we'll never forget We'll never forget the fucking taco.
Speaker 3: When we finally get her, We'll be like, how.
Speaker 1: Much how often do you have a taco right before
Speaker 1: you get on set?
Speaker 3: I'm obsessed?
Speaker 1: Uh, But Dan, I liked knowing the behind the scenes
Speaker 1: deep information, you know, because it is such an excellent show,
Speaker 1: so to know they're rehearsing so much weeks before the
Speaker 1: fact that scripts are changing day of Like it makes
Speaker 1: sense because it is just so good. I sort of
Speaker 1: don't understand why more TV shows don't do rehearsal, Like
Speaker 1: I myself have been in TV shows where I've only
Speaker 1: got a couple of lines, but I'm like, how do
Speaker 1: you want me to do this?
Speaker 3: And the director's like, just go for it. You're like, what, Like,
Speaker 3: but why why don't we run this through?
Speaker 1: Was? You know, people in charge are about the bottom line.
Speaker 3: They don't give a shit. It's only profits, so.
Speaker 2: Look at how good the product turns out when you rehearse.
Speaker 2: A little bit like with Deep Like I'm not saying
Speaker 2: you have to fly everyone to a ballroom in another state,
Speaker 2: but like I'm saying even sometimes I'm on set and
Speaker 2: we barely do run throughs, you know, like h and
Speaker 2: it seems like so rough. I mean, it's one thing
Speaker 2: on SVU where everybody is such a fucking pro they
Speaker 2: know how to get the shot like whatever, But I've
Speaker 2: been on some shows where I'm like, you don't want
Speaker 2: to like just make sure we're all going to be
Speaker 2: in the right spot, like barely do a blocking you know.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But anyway, I felt like this episode again, it is
Speaker 2: feeding the narrative for Olivia of her doubts about her
Speaker 2: own past and now Noah and all that.
Speaker 3: But do we really need.
Speaker 2: To give anybody any fuel to be like, well, here's
Speaker 2: why it might be okay that you're a rapist, Like
Speaker 2: here's why, like you know what I mean, like the
Speaker 2: percentage of men who rape, like so many men out
Speaker 2: there are are related to rapists that don't commit rape.
Speaker 2: So I don't really feel like the rape gene is
Speaker 2: a possibility.
Speaker 1: No, no, because there were also teens in that group
Speaker 1: who didn't rape, yes, you know, like and even if
Speaker 1: they had the urge, But yeah, you can't like.
Speaker 2: Just that one kid was just like terrified of women,
Speaker 2: like he had never kissed a girl, and I think
Speaker 2: he was like, anything I do is.
Speaker 3: Gonna hurt a woman.
Speaker 2: Probably I think it looped into this fucking weird cult group,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: That's what I was just about to say. I'm like,
Speaker 1: I don't think you would have to deal with this if.
Speaker 1: But it's tough because I don't believe in rehabilitation for
Speaker 1: sexual predators.
Speaker 3: I think I think I believe in castration.
Speaker 1: But then I do want to believe in people not
Speaker 1: committing rape, So it's really tough. Like I don't know, well,
Speaker 1: but I guess if you have the urge to rape,
Speaker 1: But like all these rapists, I don't even think have
Speaker 1: I just think men.
Speaker 3: I think men just rape.
Speaker 1: All the time I was watching I saw a post
Speaker 1: where someone was talking about like they were talking about
Speaker 1: a guy friend about an assault that happened, and the
Speaker 1: guy's response was, oh, maybe he didn't know that you
Speaker 1: didn't want it, or maybe he didn't know what he
Speaker 1: was doing. And it's this thing of like immediately defending
Speaker 1: a man that you don't even know while a woman
Speaker 1: you know is telling you something, and it's like it's
Speaker 1: like this common understanding where it's all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: like have you been in that moment, Like, have have
Speaker 1: you looked down and there's no way you didn't know? Like,
Speaker 1: I don't know, Like even having that excuse is crazy.
Speaker 1: There's just and there's all kinds of like excuses.
Speaker 3: It's not a gene.
Speaker 1: The Giselle Pellico, the guy that like tried to get
Speaker 1: out of it, was like, well, I thought she was dead.
Speaker 1: His excuse was, well, I thought she was dead. Wait
Speaker 1: is this the guy who went to appeal and got
Speaker 1: more time.
Speaker 3: Yeah, well I thought she was dead.
Speaker 1: Ever, and it's like that's illegal too, I thought she
Speaker 1: was dead.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Oh my god, I did not know that was
Speaker 3: the excuse. That's so fugged. I thought they hues was
Speaker 3: I thought she was like into it or something.
Speaker 1: But no, because it's not a it's like some of
Speaker 1: these I guess I'm like babbling because I can't make
Speaker 1: my point because I don't even know if I believe
Speaker 1: it or it's right. But it's this thing of like
Speaker 1: these guys of this overwhelming urge. But I think a
Speaker 1: lot of guys rape because of opportunity mm hmm. And
Speaker 1: there's men that would never rape with opportunity. They could
Speaker 1: be on a at a party with a blackout drunk
Speaker 1: girl and carry her home, put her into to bed,
Speaker 1: and leave the house. There are dudes that do that.
Speaker 1: But I wonder if the men that do rape in
Speaker 1: that moment have lived a life of wanting to rape
Speaker 1: and suppressing it and then have this opportunity or is
Speaker 1: it like, oh, it's not a big deal. She's passed out,
Speaker 1: she said yes earlier. Like I wonder if they really
Speaker 1: think they're not raping, if they know they're raping, have
Speaker 1: they suppressed it forever?
Speaker 3: Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: Well, there's also just like cultural thing of like when
Speaker 2: a guy gets an erection, you have to like it's
Speaker 2: gotta be taken care of. Like I mean, I started
Speaker 2: reading about blue balls in like teen magazines when I
Speaker 2: was like twelve, where it was like it actually really
Speaker 2: hurts a guy. Like so sometimes I think it's like
Speaker 2: these guys are opportunity, are like, well I have this boner,
Speaker 2: what am I gonna do? I gotta get rid of it,
Speaker 2: you know. Or it's like it's if they're passed out,
Speaker 2: they're not gonna notice or what I mean, it's like
Speaker 2: fucking the gymnastic.
Speaker 1: Okay, So I have been watching Love Is blind UK
Speaker 1: and one of the guys in the pods immediately was like,
Speaker 1: do you what's your sex drive? Like do you want
Speaker 1: to have sex every day? Twice a day? Like what sex?
Speaker 1: Sexuality is important and sex is important. It's like everything
Speaker 1: sex is important, but you're acting like if she doesn't
Speaker 1: fuck you every day, it's some loss of an agreement
Speaker 1: or something that I just it just sickened me, Like
Speaker 1: I know what that question is. And to me, it's like,
Speaker 1: you're someone that's gonna cheat on your wife when she's
Speaker 1: pregnant or can't fuck or is she's sick or depressed
Speaker 1: or whatever it is.
Speaker 3: And then esther Parrel.
Speaker 1: I saw this interview where she goes, actually women have
Speaker 1: more desire to fuck you. You guys aren't giving her
Speaker 1: the fucking she wants. That's why you're not desired. So
Speaker 1: it's like, if you're in this marriage and someone's not
Speaker 1: fucking you, it's so easy to go, well, she has
Speaker 1: a little sex drive. I'm a man, I need a fuck.
Speaker 1: Why aren't you fucking me? You said you want I
Speaker 1: have a you need to fuck me every day? Or
Speaker 1: this marriage?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Yeah, And that's one of your first questions of getting
Speaker 1: to know someone to me, I'm like red flag, red flag,
Speaker 1: red flag. Yeah, And it's like someone will want to
Speaker 1: fuck you if you're like fucking them well all the time,
Speaker 1: and if you're and the fourth you know, it's the
Speaker 1: class and it's the emotional connection many times, you know,
Speaker 1: for women, and I'm sure for some men, but for
Speaker 1: like mostly for women, it's the arianomatics sand of all
Speaker 1: where he's like, yeah, fuck me, and she's like, well,
Speaker 1: you aren't nice to me all day, we don't hang out,
Speaker 1: we don't spend time together, and you just expect me
Speaker 1: to fuck you right now.
Speaker 3: Like that's how it works, you can say him.
Speaker 1: It's like his need of needing to get fucked every
Speaker 1: day was something she had to prove to him. And
Speaker 1: then it's like you owe me sex, not oh, I
Speaker 1: should like seduce my wife in a nice way.
Speaker 3: So I don't. I don't know.
Speaker 1: And one time a girl told me like, nothing's less
Speaker 1: attractive than a man that's desperate for sex, like that
Speaker 1: that's gross.
Speaker 3: Yeah, And I liked.
Speaker 1: That because a really hot actually someone that's been an
Speaker 1: SVU famous person message this girl to try to fuck
Speaker 1: and wrote like I want to make you squirt tonight
Speaker 1: or something like that, and I was like, oh, he's
Speaker 1: so hot, and she goes, no, I don't like men
Speaker 1: that are desperate for sex, and I go interesting, you know,
Speaker 1: like I mean, so you can't get it, it means
Speaker 1: you're like gonna be desperate. It means you might rape
Speaker 1: at the end of the night if someone's blacked out.
Speaker 1: Like I don't know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like being horny is like kind of childish and pedestrian.
Speaker 2: Like even if you are, don't like flaunt, like, don't
Speaker 2: throw it out.
Speaker 1: You should make it seem like you're getting it, yeah,
Speaker 1: or that we don't need to do it to like
Speaker 1: I'll take you up the next Like I don't know.
Speaker 3: It just means like you've been here before. Man.
Speaker 1: Yeah, when you're desperate, that's not hot. Desperate for sex
Speaker 1: is not hot. Yeah please please. Yeah, super not hot.
Speaker 1: I mean in the Pods you said you would fuck
Speaker 1: every day. And it's like you're not nice to her.
Speaker 1: You're like constantly on the phone. You went out and
Speaker 1: then she was upset one night and he goes, well,
Speaker 1: you need to communicate and.
Speaker 3: Let me know yourself.
Speaker 1: And it's like there's other ways of communication that are
Speaker 1: not verbal that woman was clearly upset. Yeah, for you
Speaker 1: to blame her, to not communicate how she's feeling when
Speaker 1: like you don't see any other context, it's just crazy.
Speaker 3: I don't know. That show's obviously crazy.
Speaker 1: So yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah one. Yeah, there was the
Speaker 1: one couple I really like did end up together and
Speaker 1: at the reunion we're still together.
Speaker 3: So I was really happy.
Speaker 1: But oh nice, I didn't know love is I didn't
Speaker 1: know Love Island people love is blind.
Speaker 2: Oh, it's love is blind. Its love is blind. I've
Speaker 2: been seeing a lot of Love is Blind memes. I
Speaker 2: don't really understand anything that's going on.
Speaker 1: Well, there's just a new season. I refuse to watch
Speaker 1: any of the US ones anymore. Yeah, the US ones
Speaker 1: I'm seeing, and I'm like the British one sucks. I
Speaker 1: just you must be an unwell person. It is what
Speaker 1: it is. If you're okay forcing yourself to walk down
Speaker 1: the aisle fourteen days, like it's okay, nothing's worked. Maybe
Speaker 1: and it's like maybe you do internal work.
Speaker 3: I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, oh my god, because anyone can lie, anyone can
Speaker 1: say anything. It's also like, we know what when you
Speaker 1: get into a new relationship that's not that's not a
Speaker 1: sustainable thing.
Speaker 3: Like it just seems so silly, but you know.
Speaker 2: Yeah, it just feels like none of these shows where
Speaker 2: marriage is a requirement at the end really always work out.
Speaker 3: I mean a couple of them have, I guess, but
Speaker 3: I don't know. Okay, should we move on to what
Speaker 3: would Sister Peg do? Yes? Please?
Speaker 2: This is our weekly segment where we direct you to
Speaker 2: a book, an organization, a doc, an episode of an
Speaker 2: oxygen show something to give you more information about what
Speaker 2: we talked about today. And this week, I wanted to
Speaker 2: point you to an article from the University of Oxford's
Speaker 2: Practical Ethics blog, and I think like Oxford is a good,
Speaker 2: good source British et cetera. And it's titled is sexual
Speaker 2: Offending Genetic? And the shortthanster is not really. But the
Speaker 2: article is interesting because it does point out that a
Speaker 2: multitude of genetic traits can contribute to someone becoming a
Speaker 2: sex offender, but environmental factors are still the predominant cause.
Speaker 2: So if you'd like to read more, you can check
Speaker 2: out the blog. It will be linked in our show
Speaker 2: notes and it will be shared on our Instagram the
Speaker 2: day that this episode comes out. I put those in
Speaker 2: the stories and then I save them forever in our
Speaker 2: WWSPD highlights, so you can always page back as giving
Speaker 2: season comes around. If you're not able to give to
Speaker 2: any local food pantries to cover people that have lost
Speaker 2: their snap benefits, you can always page back and see
Speaker 2: some of the charitable organizations we've hosted in our WWSPD
Speaker 2: highlights on our Instagram page, which is That's Messed Up Pod.
Speaker 1: Hell yes, and we will be doing next week the
Speaker 1: episode Desperate from season four, episode eighteen, a fucking classic,
Speaker 1: so join us.
Speaker 3: Such a classic classic. Bye guys, see you next week.
Speaker 1: That's Messed Up as an exactly right production. If you
Speaker 1: have compliments you'd like to give us or episodes you'd
Speaker 1: like us to cover, shoot us an email it That's
Speaker 1: Messed uppod at gmail dot com. Listen to That's Messed
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Speaker 1: Messed Up Pod, and follow us personally at Kara Klank
Speaker 1: and at glitter Cheese. As always, please see our show
Speaker 1: notes for sources and more information. Thank you so much
Speaker 1: to our senior producer, Casey O'Brien and our associate producer,
Speaker 1: Christina Chamberlain. And to our mixer John Bradley and our
Speaker 1: guest booker Patrick Cottner. And to Henry Kaperski for our
Speaker 1: theme song and Carly Geen Andrews for our artwork. Thank
Speaker 1: you to our executive producers Georgia hard Start, Karen Kilgareff,
Speaker 1: Daniel Kramer and everybody at Exactly Right Media.
Speaker 3: Dun Dun