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Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you Should Know from House Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com straight because knowledge is power. Hey, and welcome

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Speaker 1: to the podcast. I'm Josh Clark, There's Charles W. Chuck Bryant,

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Speaker 1: there's Jerry and this is stuff you should Know. Chip

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Speaker 1: off the block of your favorite schoolhouse. Yeah that was

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Speaker 1: we just heard the theme song. If you're between the

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Speaker 1: ages of well, were you into it? Yes? Okay, so

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Speaker 1: you're what forty one? I'm forty, so probably younger than

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Speaker 1: you even a bit. Let's say if you're between, I

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Speaker 1: was definitely towards the tail end of it. Let's say

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Speaker 1: thirty eight to fifty years old. Actually, yeah, that's not true.

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Speaker 1: So let's say it was up to yeah nine, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so iwhere in that rain fifty ish? All right, that's

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Speaker 1: what you agree on a little more. Maybe so that

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Speaker 1: fifteen year period you were lucky. Yeah, Like if you

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Speaker 1: just heard that theme song and like something inside your

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Speaker 1: body happened emotionally in your brain, then that means that

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Speaker 1: that you grew up in the seventies and eighties. Uh.

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Speaker 1: I think the heyday of Saturday Morning cartoons personally, uh,

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Speaker 1: as a fan of schoolhouse rock, one of my favorite

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Speaker 1: favorite favorite things in the world. Yeah, it was pretty great.

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Speaker 1: I still love it. Yeah, Like I still listen to

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Speaker 1: this stuff semi regularly. Oh do you. Yeah, it's been

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Speaker 1: a little while. When I went back to UM to

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Speaker 1: research this, I listened to or watched a bunch of them,

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Speaker 1: and they all just came flooding back. Yeah, and them.

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Speaker 1: The writer of this article actually interviewed, didn't he Bob Doro?

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Speaker 1: It's it sounded that way unless he's a big fat

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Speaker 1: liar in his author's note. Well, I just remember when

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Speaker 1: this article went around, Like the first thing we do

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Speaker 1: when there's an article at how SUF works is there's

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Speaker 1: a UM email that goes around everyone where people kind

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Speaker 1: of suggest kind of questions you can answer and stuff

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Speaker 1: like that. Um. I don't think we ever really talked

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Speaker 1: about that, did we don't think nine years in that's

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Speaker 1: a secret. Uh, And people say, hey, you should think

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Speaker 1: about this, you should do this, And I said, somebody

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Speaker 1: should try and interview Bob Doro. It's like he's ninety

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Speaker 1: three years old, and you know, you can still get

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Speaker 1: in touch with a guy, I think, and apparently this

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Speaker 1: dude did. And sadly, I think all we got was

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Speaker 1: like one quote. Yeah, well, he was on his way

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Speaker 1: to like a jazz gig in London when he caught him.

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Speaker 1: I bet you that was more in there than this.

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Speaker 1: I was all disappointed. Oh, you're saying I wanted like

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Speaker 1: more more select quotes from Mr Doro. You wanted like

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Speaker 1: I called Mr Doe. He answered, hello, said Mr Doro.

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Speaker 1: We should have interviewed him for this. I don't know

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Speaker 1: why we didn't. I don't either. Apparently it's easy to

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Speaker 1: get to uh and there's well, I'll get to that.

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Speaker 1: Never mind. Should we get in the way back machine? Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's go back to the seventies, the greatest decade history

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Speaker 1: of humanity. Probably, I'm not joking. I'm a fan of sixties. Seventies,

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Speaker 1: and eighties would be tough for me to decide. Sixties

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Speaker 1: were a little too hippie for me. I love the seventies,

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Speaker 1: so I mean, I had loved the seventies, and not

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Speaker 1: even as a Golden age. There was a lot wrong

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Speaker 1: in the seventies. Nixon was president during the seventies. Okay,

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Speaker 1: lots of stuff we're wrong in the seventies, but something

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Speaker 1: about that decade just hit all the boxes. I just

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Speaker 1: love it, and it reminds me my childhood, which is

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Speaker 1: great because you know, I had a good childhood. It

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Speaker 1: was fun. I a lot of We talked about that

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Speaker 1: in the Nostalgia episode on how nostalgi just the correct

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Speaker 1: path in life, even though John Hodgman doesn't think so.

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Speaker 1: So early seventies, there's a gentleman named David McCall and

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Speaker 1: um he was. He co owned an ad agency called

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Speaker 1: McCaffrey and McCall and as the story goes, he was

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Speaker 1: on vacation with his family and he knew his son

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Speaker 1: was having some trouble in math um remembering specifically multiplication tables. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: no matter how much he yelled at him every night,

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Speaker 1: he couldn't get multiplication. But they're in the car and

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Speaker 1: this kid was singing, as the story goes, rolling Stones,

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Speaker 1: rolling Stone song, and he was like, well you know that,

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Speaker 1: Why can't you remember the other stuff? I don't think

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Speaker 1: he was that gruff, but it did hit him. He

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Speaker 1: was like, you know, my son, remember, he has no

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Speaker 1: problem memorizing things, but there's something about these multiplication tables.

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Speaker 1: So I wonder if there's something too. Uh sing song

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Speaker 1: and turning learning into not only just music, because that's

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Speaker 1: not a new thing. People have been doing that forever,

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Speaker 1: but popular sounding music, right, and like pairing them with

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Speaker 1: concepts to teach, right, to to make kids understand difficult concepts, right,

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Speaker 1: And it's it's so weird now, especially if in the

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Speaker 1: post school house rock world that that, yeah, of course

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Speaker 1: people do that, Like that's a technique that you used

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Speaker 1: to teach kids, but apparently no one else is doing this.

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Speaker 1: At the time that this was a pretty interesting idea

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Speaker 1: and it really it germinated in just the right guy's mind,

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Speaker 1: because this guy McCall was, like you said, he was

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Speaker 1: a partner in this advertising firm and they basically specialized

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Speaker 1: in in doing the same thing but get you getting

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Speaker 1: you to buy something. He was, maybe we could do

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Speaker 1: the same thing that we do to sell people stuff,

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Speaker 1: but to basically sell education to kids, to teach kids

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Speaker 1: using the same techniques that we use in advertising. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Like they would see a jingle for a product that

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Speaker 1: would get lodged in someone's head, and they would say,

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Speaker 1: you know, why can't we do that same thing, Like

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Speaker 1: it would get lodged in a kid's head and they

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Speaker 1: would have learned something instead of bought something. Right, But

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Speaker 1: you could also buy stuff. If you learn enough stuff,

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Speaker 1: you can buy even more stuff. Uh. So he went

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Speaker 1: to UM. One of these Uh I think he was

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Speaker 1: a creative director or co creative director named George Newell

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Speaker 1: ran it by him. He said, great idea, get someone

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Speaker 1: on it, and he threw a cigarette at him, got

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Speaker 1: out of the office and commissioned a one of their writers.

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Speaker 1: They had jingle writers on staff or at least working

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Speaker 1: with them, and they said, go write something. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: wasn't very good. Didn't you feel bad for this person?

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Speaker 1: I did, But you know what, it could have died

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Speaker 1: there right, never would have a Schoolhouse Rock. But this

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Speaker 1: person went down in history is the contributor to Schoolhouse Rock.

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Speaker 1: Who who didn't it didn't make it? Yeah, or the

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Speaker 1: person who almost killed Schoolhouse Rock. I guess so. But

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Speaker 1: McCall was like, no, this idea is too good for

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Speaker 1: this Yeah, which is really, you know, a great thing

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Speaker 1: and a lesson in persistence. So he went. Newell was

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Speaker 1: a jazz piano player and he went to his buddy

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Speaker 1: one Bob Doro, one of my heroes, who was was

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Speaker 1: a and is a great bebop jazz pianist and composer,

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Speaker 1: and said, you can write a jingle too. Why don't

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Speaker 1: you try this out? And here's the one quote we

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Speaker 1: might as well read it from ninety three year old

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Speaker 1: Mr Doro. I don't know how I looked out. Apparently

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Speaker 1: they tried other songwriters, but most of them wrote down

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Speaker 1: to kids. When I met McAuley said here's my idea.

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Speaker 1: I give it a try, but don't write down to

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Speaker 1: the kids. And when he said that, I gotta chill.

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Speaker 1: I have a high opinion of children. And that was

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Speaker 1: sort of the key right there. They weren't uh songs

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Speaker 1: like written in a remedial way because it was children.

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Speaker 1: It's a bitsy spider, give me a break. Oh that's

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Speaker 1: a classic. So um, but you're right. But so this

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Speaker 1: idea germinates in this right guy's head. He happens to

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Speaker 1: end up indirectly getting in touch with this guy who

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Speaker 1: has a high opinion of children, and he happens to

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Speaker 1: be a jazz composer. Things are starting to like happen.

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Speaker 1: There's basically the hand of the Almighty at work here.

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Speaker 1: That's right. Uh So Dora goes home. Um, he has

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Speaker 1: a daughter, gets out of textbooks, and the first thing

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Speaker 1: he comes up with to me one of the best man.

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Speaker 1: It is far out. Three is a Magic number was

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Speaker 1: the very first Schoolhouse song written because the first thing

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Speaker 1: they wanted to tackle was math. Because of uh McCall's son. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this this composition that he came back with, three is

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Speaker 1: a magic number. Um, it's a I when I hear it,

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Speaker 1: it's super cool. But I don't. I I'm really surprised

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Speaker 1: that everybody was like, this is, yes, figure something out

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Speaker 1: from this. Man. I loved it. It is, it's cool,

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Speaker 1: but it just doesn't seem like the basis the keystone

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Speaker 1: of Schoolhouse rock to me. I'm surprised. Well, it's one

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Speaker 1: of my favorites. That's great because it dealt with multiplication. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And not only that, but uh, like you said, got

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Speaker 1: a little trippy with the symbolism faith, hope and charity,

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Speaker 1: heart and mind and body. Uh, it was about and

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Speaker 1: I wanted to do a podcast on three, the number three,

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Speaker 1: because it's very special. It is very special. It is.

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Speaker 1: We did one on zero, Why not three? Man, I

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Speaker 1: forgot about that. Remember, I think my brain melted a

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Speaker 1: bit there. One it's tough. Zero is tough. It is tough,

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Speaker 1: um and not at all magic, right, not really? Um?

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Speaker 1: So regardless, if you would have been working there, you

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Speaker 1: would have been like and everyone else enjoy I did,

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Speaker 1: You'd be like, I'm gonna go get a bagel. I'm

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Speaker 1: not gonna even work on this process cheese account. Um.

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Speaker 1: I did think of Madmen quite a bit when I

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Speaker 1: was researching this. It was sort of that same time

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Speaker 1: period or I guess towards No, Madman didn't make it

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Speaker 1: into the seventies. Yeah, I thought he did, because it

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Speaker 1: wasn't he supposed to be dB Cooper at the end,

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Speaker 1: and that was yeah, early, I guess that was seventy one.

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Speaker 1: I think it did crack into the seventies, not like

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Speaker 1: Boogie Nights did. That was all seventies. The No, that's right,

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Speaker 1: it cracked into the eighties with that cheese that that

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Speaker 1: song you recorded. Well, no, I was, well, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: for sure. But I was thinking about when it when

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Speaker 1: the the Party, the New Year's e Party Girl nineteen

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Speaker 1: with Bill Macy. Yeah, man, what a great movie. That

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Speaker 1: was wonderful. Yeah, movies almost like twenty years old. I

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Speaker 1: believe it. We're old, Chuck, I know. But those those

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Speaker 1: pop culture references are the ones that really hit home

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Speaker 1: for me. What the ones from the seventies. Well, when

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Speaker 1: I think of like Boogie Nights, I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: that was just like a few years ago, right. And

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Speaker 1: then someone says it's celebrating its twentieth anniversary and I'm

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Speaker 1: like what, Or like when I see an athlete's son

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Speaker 1: or daughter. Yeah, it's weird to see that it is

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Speaker 1: playing the same sport. The rookies are now like the

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Speaker 1: old coaches and managers in the sports now man bizarre. Uh.

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Speaker 1: So everyone's impressed at McCaffrey and McCall um. Then they

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Speaker 1: did a pretty smart thing. They went to um. McCall

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Speaker 1: was on the board of the Bank Street College of

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Speaker 1: Education uh in New York there, and he took it

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Speaker 1: to them. It was just a song at this point

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Speaker 1: he said, what do you think is a learning tool? Uh?

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Speaker 1: They used it, played it for the students and they

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Speaker 1: were like, this is awesome. They're responding again, little job.

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Speaker 1: He's just sitting there with his arms across the scowling.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen him so mad before. Uh. The students

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Speaker 1: liked it. The agency liked it, so they knew they

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Speaker 1: were onto something. They got their art director, Uh Tom

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Speaker 1: yo y o h e, oh you're going with Yo.

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Speaker 1: I'm going all out with yoh okay Tom YOHI and

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Speaker 1: UM said, put put some animation to this, draw out

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Speaker 1: some storyboards, because that was the beauty of Schoolhouse Rock

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Speaker 1: to me was Uh, it was a combination of everything.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't just the song, like the songs are great, um,

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Speaker 1: and we'll get more to the music here in a bit,

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Speaker 1: but it was the combination of the visuals with the

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Speaker 1: song and the fact that you were learning something in

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Speaker 1: such a unique way. It was just like the perfect

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Speaker 1: storm of awesomeness. Yeah. The songs on their own would

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Speaker 1: have stood up on their own. Oh yeah. And initially

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Speaker 1: like they they planned to just release an album of

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Speaker 1: cool songs like this. Yeah, but it was when Yo

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Speaker 1: he started sitting there right like drawing some of this

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Speaker 1: stuff out. That's I mean. School was Rock is not

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Speaker 1: one or the other. It's the combination of those two things,

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Speaker 1: and they play off each other. So well, I agreed. Uh,

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Speaker 1: So they took UM. Now they have these storyboards. Uh.

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Speaker 1: They take this to a guy named Radford Stone. He

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Speaker 1: was their account supervisor of the vp UM for ABC,

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Speaker 1: and they said, there's this young upstart at ABC for

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Speaker 1: their children's programming named Michael Eisner that if he's ever

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Speaker 1: going to go anywhere, but right now he's running the

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Speaker 1: kid's shop over there. Um, and let's bring in because

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Speaker 1: this guy knows a lot about kids programming, Let's bring

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Speaker 1: in Chuck Jones to the meeting. Shout out to her

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Speaker 1: from Jessica, granddaughter of Mr Jones, and uh sat down

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Speaker 1: in a meeting, played the demo tape, showed him the

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Speaker 1: storyboard they helped. Turned to Chuck Jones, so what do

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Speaker 1: you think? And he said, buy it? By it that's

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Speaker 1: how Chuck Jones do that. He didn't and Michael Eisner

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Speaker 1: bought it and uh, before you knew it are own business.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna take a break, I think we should. Josh

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Speaker 1: is gonna go collect himself and we'll be right back

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Speaker 1: you all right, all right, we're back. So strange. Um, So,

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Speaker 1: Schoolhouse Rock started on ABC Saturday morning. Is that what

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Speaker 1: they call an interstitial? Yeah, we had some of this, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was. It's programming between the programming that's

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Speaker 1: not commercial. When the creators of the program you're actually

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Speaker 1: watching weren't good enough to make twenty two full minutes,

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Speaker 1: you round it out with interstitial program Yeah, exactly. Uh,

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Speaker 1: this is January six and seven was the first weekend

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Speaker 1: in ninety three, so I was but two years old.

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Speaker 1: Well three, yeah you you were in the upper atmosphere

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Speaker 1: just playing my liar, coalescing, waiting to be born, flapping

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Speaker 1: my wings. Uh. And this was before like like you said,

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Speaker 1: this is the original thing was. It was just gonna

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Speaker 1: be an album called Multiplication Rock um, until they realized

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Speaker 1: that the visuals were important they could put it on television.

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Speaker 1: And the first four songs that first weekend were some

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Speaker 1: of the greatest, aside from threes, magic number four, legged Zoo, Elementary,

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Speaker 1: my Dear, and my Hero zero great song uh zero

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Speaker 1: again yeah, not magical, but it is a cool number.

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Speaker 1: Such a funny little hero came along. They counted on

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Speaker 1: their fingers and so that when was that check three?

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Speaker 1: And um, I think that first one had quite was

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Speaker 1: so it was up to third. There were thirteen episodes

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Speaker 1: that if it went from zero to twelve. Yeah, I

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Speaker 1: think what they settled on was, um almost like seasons,

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Speaker 1: uh themed season, so that the first season was going

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Speaker 1: to be math related. Yeah. So um. Apparently Bob Darrow

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Speaker 1: had been off like coming up with songs, didn't realize

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Speaker 1: that they wanted a song for each number, and he

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Speaker 1: had started to combine several numbers in a different song,

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Speaker 1: so he didn't get the memo. He didn't and he

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Speaker 1: finally did and um he uh. He was trying to

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Speaker 1: figure out how to like break the songs apart, and

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Speaker 1: he came up with one called the four Legged Zoo.

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Speaker 1: Have you heard that one? Yeah? It's fine, so so

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Speaker 1: not one of my favorites, but I mean they're all great.

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Speaker 1: It's just some standout a little more than others. So

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Speaker 1: what's your favorite of the multiple k rock Three is

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Speaker 1: a magic number? Okay? Yeah? And and that was something

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Speaker 1: else I noticed about this. There are um for each season.

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Speaker 1: There were at least one standout song per per season

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Speaker 1: that just about everybody knows. And I would guess three

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Speaker 1: is the magic numbers. Probably that one, yeah, or maybe

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Speaker 1: my Hero zero. That was a big one. Yeah, that

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Speaker 1: was a hit, so much so that um Bob Doro

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Speaker 1: was up for Grammy in nine four for um, I

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Speaker 1: I think the whole album, right, yeah, but the those

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Speaker 1: jerks at Sesame Street one, if you're gonna lose, lose

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Speaker 1: the Sesame Street. Yeah, And Dora is like writing and

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Speaker 1: singing these initial first few songs. I think he's saying, yeah,

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Speaker 1: all of them except two, and he hired two other

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Speaker 1: jazz musicians, Grady Tate and Blossom Deery, Grady Tate saying

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Speaker 1: Naughty number nine and Blossom Deery saying figure eight. But

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Speaker 1: all the rest of them, the other eleven, Bob Durrow

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Speaker 1: sang and he wrote all of them. So yeah, they

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Speaker 1: really struck gold with that guy. Yeah, I mean he

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Speaker 1: was he was that initial genius behind this whole thing. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and this is another cool thing about Schoolhouse Rock that

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Speaker 1: I noticed, Um, the people involved stayed on for basically

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Speaker 1: the whole run. In the initial run from seventy to

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Speaker 1: eighty five, Yeah, it seemed like a project that everyone

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Speaker 1: enjoyed working on, and that was highly collaborative, and it

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Speaker 1: just seemed like a good experience. I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: like the v H one special like the Dark Side

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Speaker 1: of the school House rockyears. You know. Uh, so they

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Speaker 1: move on to I don't know which one is my favorite,

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Speaker 1: Grammar Rock or History, Um, but they moved on to

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Speaker 1: Grammar Rock next yea seventy three to seventy four, And

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Speaker 1: we should say I don't think that these were, Um, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think there are breaks in the season. I

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Speaker 1: get the impression that from three till when they had

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Speaker 1: enough episodes, they were just running on like every Saturday

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Speaker 1: morning during cartoons. Yeah, I certainly don't remember like breaks,

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Speaker 1: like it just seems like every week they were there. Um.

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Speaker 1: So seventy three and seventy four you have Grammar Rock,

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Speaker 1: which um debuted. Some people will probably say the biggest

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Speaker 1: of all time Conjunction Junction. Yeah, that's so, and everybody

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Speaker 1: knows it's a great, great song, uh song, as he's

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Speaker 1: sang many others, including my all time favorite, which I'll

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Speaker 1: get to later. Okay, but I know what it is.

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Speaker 1: I bet you don't. Um. He was MRF MERV Griffin's

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Speaker 1: trumpet player, Jack Sheldon, who just had this voice that's

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Speaker 1: just like it's the conjunction Junction. Yeah, it's unbelievable, very

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Speaker 1: unique guy. And he kind of looked like Will Ferrell

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Speaker 1: to me, like he should play him if they did

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Speaker 1: a movie about they should do a movie about the

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Speaker 1: whole thing. If she asked me, Yeah, I think there's

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Speaker 1: no controversy or conflict. It's just two hours of everybody

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Speaker 1: getting along doing great stuff. He wants to see that, right, Um,

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Speaker 1: so Jack Sheldon came along, uh sank in junction junction

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Speaker 1: and did you go back and listen to that? Like

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Speaker 1: for this, listen to a lot of these, So that

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Speaker 1: is a sophisticated song. If you listen to like that,

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Speaker 1: we remember our poetry episode. If you listen to like

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Speaker 1: the meter and the um, the rhyming pattern, the rhyme scheme,

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Speaker 1: and the slant rhymes they use, like for something that's

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Speaker 1: made for kids, it is not just rhyme, rhyme, rhyme, rhyme, rhyme, ryme, rhyme, rhyme, rhyme.

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Speaker 1: You know, like it's a sophisticated song. Um. And it's

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Speaker 1: pretty pretty cool. Yeah, I think that's I mean, I

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Speaker 1: think that's why it worked. That was a secret is

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Speaker 1: um it's I guess it's that not not talking down

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Speaker 1: to kids. Yeah, And like the music was was good,

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Speaker 1: Like if you listen to um, I mean those are

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Speaker 1: a little sing songy, but like some of them were

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Speaker 1: like pop music at the time, like the Verb song

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Speaker 1: some one of the funkiest songs I've ever heard. Verb

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Speaker 1: That's What's happening, And especially that one, like I read

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Speaker 1: I read this great blog post by this African American

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Speaker 1: guy that was talking about how verb was like meant

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Speaker 1: so much to him because at the time, you know,

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Speaker 1: they didn't have a lot of like cartoons and stuff

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Speaker 1: that but addressed the black community at all. And so

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, you get this cartoon. It's got

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Speaker 1: the super funky music and this kid that looked like

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Speaker 1: him having this great adventure uh in the city, and

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Speaker 1: uh it just kind of it's pretty pretty neat thing,

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Speaker 1: I think. Yeah that was season two, was Grammar, right, Yes,

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Speaker 1: So apparently in that same season, lady named Lynn Aaron's

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Speaker 1: um was a She was a copy copy department secretary. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: this is where it reminded me of Madman, and she's

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Speaker 1: like basically took Peggy's journey from like secretary to superstar.

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Speaker 1: I've never seen mad Yeah it's good. I'm rewatching it

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Speaker 1: right now. Really, yeah, it's that good. Yeah. So, um,

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Speaker 1: Lynn was she was a secretary at the advertising agency.

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Speaker 1: And apparently she was playing her guitar on lunch break.

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Speaker 1: Another reason the seventies were great exactly, And um, who

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Speaker 1: was it that Founder Newell, the creative director guy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: like in the movie, he's just walking down the hall

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Speaker 1: and here's this beautiful music and stops. It's like, what

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Speaker 1: in the world's going on in there? Right? And it

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Speaker 1: was Lynn Errands, And so they took her and put

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Speaker 1: her on I guess part time on the project um

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Speaker 1: and they, I guess eventually made her a full time songwriter,

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Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. That was her gig. Fifteen of

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Speaker 1: the songs, including some of the biggest ones. Now and

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Speaker 1: as a person plays her thing great song in Her Planet,

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Speaker 1: Janet interjections to good one a Victim of Gravity about

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Speaker 1: Isaac Newton in Her Planet Janet, sounds like Rocky Horror

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Speaker 1: if you go back and listen to it, kind of

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Speaker 1: does it bears a real resemblance to it? Or Rocky

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Speaker 1: Horror sounded like inter Planet Janet. I went and looked.

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Speaker 1: Rocket Horror was three years before In A Planet Janet

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Speaker 1: the movie or the play the movie? Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: play was even before that? Was it a play first? Uh?

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Speaker 1: Meat Loaf was even in the play, oh yeah, before

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Speaker 1: the movie, right, and not a play I guess, musical

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Speaker 1: which play with songs and dancing. Uh So. The next

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Speaker 1: one to come along was America Rock or History Rock,

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Speaker 1: which kind of vised for the best to me with

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Speaker 1: Grammar Rock, and that one tied into the bi centennial.

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Speaker 1: Yeah that was a big deal, which you don't remember,

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Speaker 1: but I remember being a little kid, being five years old,

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Speaker 1: and uh, it took over the country for you know,

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Speaker 1: that entire year. Yeah, I know there was like a

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Speaker 1: resurgence and colonial emblems and stuff like that. You know

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Speaker 1: that if you ever walked past like a very very

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Speaker 1: old person's house today, you might see like a flag

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Speaker 1: holder that's a black metal eagle holding like some arrows

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Speaker 1: maybe or that is from still there, like a resurgence

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Speaker 1: and Betsy Ross and colonial like knick knacks and stuff.

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Speaker 1: I wasn't I was just born, but it was there

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Speaker 1: was a it created like a high water mark that

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00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,119
Speaker 1: I was able to see even you know, four or

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Speaker 1: five six years later. So, uh, History Rock or America

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Speaker 1: Rock um featured some of the best songs Mother Necessity

404
00:24:30,240 --> 00:24:33,440
Speaker 1: Shot heard around the world. Uh and No More Kings,

405
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Speaker 1: which is maybe my second all time favorite. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's the one that um. There was an album that

407
00:24:41,760 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: came out in called Schoolhouse Rocks Rocks, Schoolhouse Rock Rocks,

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Speaker 1: where they got contemporary artists to cover these songs and

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Speaker 1: did you ever listen to that. I listened to the

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Speaker 1: Pavement win to day. So I emailed Bob Nistanovich today

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Speaker 1: from Pavement because, as I said in the previous episode,

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Speaker 1: I tricked him into being my email friend. Um, and

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Speaker 1: I said, hey, dude, I would love to hear if

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Speaker 1: you have any thoughts on them, more kings, how you

415
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:17,720
Speaker 1: guys were approached, if there any stories, what it meant

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00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:21,600
Speaker 1: to you, what it didn't mean, whatever, let me know. No, no, no,

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Speaker 1: He emailed back. Uh. And then I said, I'll call

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Speaker 1: you on my way to work, called him the way

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Speaker 1: to work. Crickets. Yeah, I got his voicemail, and then

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Speaker 1: as I was coming in the studio, he called him

421
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:34,040
Speaker 1: left the voicemail saying he was in his minivan rocking

422
00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:36,480
Speaker 1: out and he didn't hear the phone ring, which is

423
00:25:36,560 --> 00:25:39,600
Speaker 1: very funny to me. But um, I told him I'd

424
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,920
Speaker 1: like to hear what he has to say, because he

425
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: said he has a tale to tell about that experience. Man,

426
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to record it after this. Well yeah,

427
00:25:47,600 --> 00:25:51,600
Speaker 1: or if it could be like a listener mail, Yeah,

428
00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:55,080
Speaker 1: like if I can get him on tape, then we'll

429
00:25:55,200 --> 00:25:57,720
Speaker 1: tag it at the end. If not, if it ends

430
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:00,320
Speaker 1: up being an email version or something. I'll just maybe

431
00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,240
Speaker 1: recount it in my own dumb words, or you could

432
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:06,440
Speaker 1: ask him if we could read the email and make

433
00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:09,920
Speaker 1: a listener mail. Oh for real, like a real listener mail.

434
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:12,920
Speaker 1: All right, it's not about it so anyway, uh So,

435
00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 1: listen up for the end for Bob Nistanovitch story about

436
00:26:16,160 --> 00:26:18,320
Speaker 1: No More Kings, because if you listen to that CD,

437
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:22,840
Speaker 1: it's like the lemon Heads and uh ween, it's the

438
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:26,640
Speaker 1: super ninety c D Mob Moby and they're all most

439
00:26:26,680 --> 00:26:29,200
Speaker 1: of them are pretty straight ahead, and so you get

440
00:26:29,320 --> 00:26:32,399
Speaker 1: to the Pavement song and it's just all pavement. Like

441
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:36,320
Speaker 1: Malcolm has changed his words. He there's like laser guns

442
00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,840
Speaker 1: at the end, and it's just wonderfully pavement, like quintessentially pavement.

443
00:26:42,880 --> 00:26:44,720
Speaker 1: Like leave it to them to just kind of throw

444
00:26:44,760 --> 00:26:46,560
Speaker 1: it all out the window and do their own thing.

445
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,800
Speaker 1: I liked a lot um three ring Government. I didn't

446
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,720
Speaker 1: really know that one that was good, and apparently they

447
00:26:54,320 --> 00:26:56,920
Speaker 1: um So it basically talks about the different branches of

448
00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: the government but puts in the context of a three

449
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: ring circuit us and it's um really, I mean, aside

450
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:07,040
Speaker 1: from the fact that it compares to the government to

451
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,960
Speaker 1: a three ring circus. It's not at all offensive. Apparently

452
00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: they said on that one for years and didn't release

453
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:17,760
Speaker 1: it until nine nine because they were worried about offending

454
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,280
Speaker 1: the government, which is a strange thing to worry about

455
00:27:22,280 --> 00:27:24,920
Speaker 1: through today's lens. Yeah, but even still, I mean, this

456
00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:27,359
Speaker 1: is like post water Gate. It's not like everybody was like,

457
00:27:27,520 --> 00:27:31,119
Speaker 1: oh right, you know, we we couldn't possibly call the

458
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,160
Speaker 1: government a three ring circus. Yeah, that's true. That is weird.

459
00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:36,080
Speaker 1: It seems like that would have been a good time

460
00:27:36,119 --> 00:27:41,239
Speaker 1: to do it. Yeah. But the most famous song, um

461
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 1: from that year by far was Sheldon's on just a Bill?

462
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,639
Speaker 1: Is that your favorite? No? Okay? Um? That was composed

463
00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: not by Mr Doro but by a man named Dave Frishburg.

464
00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,919
Speaker 1: And Um, I mean that one was just a mega hit,

465
00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:05,040
Speaker 1: straight to number one on the Billboard charts. It's it's like,

466
00:28:05,440 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: as far as Schoolhouse Rocks goes, that's the that's the

467
00:28:11,000 --> 00:28:14,240
Speaker 1: that's the cultural icon, that signifies the whole thing. I

468
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:18,200
Speaker 1: think close close second would be conjunction junction. Maybe they're tired,

469
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,600
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I just feel like I'm I'm

470
00:28:20,880 --> 00:28:24,480
Speaker 1: just a bill is the most readily recognizable. One. Yeah,

471
00:28:24,480 --> 00:28:26,600
Speaker 1: and it's just amazing when you look back, though, like

472
00:28:27,560 --> 00:28:29,760
Speaker 1: the learning that was going on and the teaching that

473
00:28:29,880 --> 00:28:33,680
Speaker 1: was happening these kids us, we were learning how a

474
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:36,320
Speaker 1: bill becomes a law right in the in the best

475
00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 1: way possible, like better than any well, not any teacher.

476
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:42,000
Speaker 1: They were great teachers back then, let's say, like any

477
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:45,520
Speaker 1: dump teacher that's boring their kids. But it definitely struck

478
00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: a chord with me, you know, And that's how I

479
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,160
Speaker 1: remember a lot of this stuff. And apparently two adults

480
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:56,480
Speaker 1: were also noticing Schoolhouse Rock at the time. Supposedly there

481
00:28:56,520 --> 00:29:01,280
Speaker 1: were plenty of orders. This is before video, because before

482
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:06,040
Speaker 1: they were widely available, I guess in the home. I'm

483
00:29:06,040 --> 00:29:07,760
Speaker 1: trying to think of how they would have played them

484
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:11,920
Speaker 1: if they didn't have video cassettes. But anyway, apparently lobbyists

485
00:29:12,000 --> 00:29:15,360
Speaker 1: and legislators would get in touch with ABC and be like,

486
00:29:15,440 --> 00:29:17,240
Speaker 1: you gotta get me a copy of that I'm a

487
00:29:17,320 --> 00:29:19,520
Speaker 1: Bill thing and give me a beta MAX because I

488
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:22,280
Speaker 1: want to show it to my staff to train them

489
00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:24,440
Speaker 1: on this kind of stuff. Well, I think they asked

490
00:29:24,440 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: for cassettes, at least the very least, so they could

491
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:29,560
Speaker 1: play in the music. I see, maybe that's what they meant.

492
00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:35,560
Speaker 1: Probably okay, an eight track. Um. And then there was

493
00:29:35,640 --> 00:29:37,600
Speaker 1: Science Rock was the year after that. That was seventy

494
00:29:37,760 --> 00:29:43,480
Speaker 1: and seventy nine, which is pretty good. InterPlaNet Janet, Victor's

495
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: so weird? What InterPlaNet Janet? Yeah, it's a good one.

496
00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,120
Speaker 1: And then the telegraph Line song, which um, I think

497
00:29:50,200 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: that was written by this Arns too, I think, And

498
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:58,760
Speaker 1: that one was really like, I mean it was you

499
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,440
Speaker 1: literally learned about the erb A system and how the

500
00:30:01,560 --> 00:30:05,960
Speaker 1: body communicates uh to the brain by listening to that song.

501
00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:07,240
Speaker 1: And that's the one that they wanted to play for

502
00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,120
Speaker 1: med students and they did amazing some of them. All right,

503
00:30:11,160 --> 00:30:15,640
Speaker 1: well let's take another break, and um jeez, we'll we'll

504
00:30:15,720 --> 00:30:19,120
Speaker 1: cover the the sad last season of Schoolhouse Rock after this,

505
00:30:49,200 --> 00:30:52,440
Speaker 1: so chuck. Schoolhouse Rock for the first four seasons was

506
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:57,120
Speaker 1: the epitome of creativity. Even their process was creative, Like

507
00:30:57,240 --> 00:31:00,280
Speaker 1: the songwriters would I guess they would say, this season

508
00:31:00,360 --> 00:31:03,360
Speaker 1: our theme is, you know, it's going to be science,

509
00:31:03,440 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 1: are gonna be grammar or whatever, So go go forth

510
00:31:05,960 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: and figure this out. The songwriters would come up with

511
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: songs and they'd pitch them to the creative team. And

512
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:16,560
Speaker 1: so there was this process of creativity and it started

513
00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:20,640
Speaker 1: with the creatives. That's the key here, That's what made

514
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 1: it just so legitimate and so wonderfully creative this whole time.

515
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,280
Speaker 1: It started with the creatives, right, yeah, and they would

516
00:31:28,560 --> 00:31:31,000
Speaker 1: pretty cool. They would get them vetted by that Bank

517
00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:33,840
Speaker 1: Street School of Education, so they would get to make

518
00:31:33,880 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 1: sure everything was like, you know, it was right yeah,

519
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:38,440
Speaker 1: and then ABC, oh, let me say it. And then

520
00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: they'd say, oh, I guess it's fine, and then they'd

521
00:31:41,440 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 1: start the storyboard it once they had the lyrics set

522
00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:47,440
Speaker 1: in stone, right. That was the first four seasons. The

523
00:31:47,560 --> 00:31:51,560
Speaker 1: fifth season they said, died, Creativity Die, and they reversed

524
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 1: the process and they said, hey, songwriters, here are your

525
00:31:55,520 --> 00:31:58,360
Speaker 1: assignments now where we we think kids should know more

526
00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,760
Speaker 1: about computers. So we're gonna just screw this whole thing up. Okay, yeah,

527
00:32:02,800 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 1: this is the part I don't get it, says the

528
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 1: ABC program exact Squire Rushnell commissioned this because that was

529
00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:13,200
Speaker 1: the idea that children were afraid of computers. I can't

530
00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 1: I don't remember anything, but they're being like excitement about computers.

531
00:32:17,720 --> 00:32:19,800
Speaker 1: I don't remember any kids being like I don't want

532
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:21,760
Speaker 1: to go near that. Yeah, I remember kids being like,

533
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 1: oh that's cool, let me sit down, And usually it

534
00:32:23,920 --> 00:32:26,120
Speaker 1: was the parents that were afraid of computers. Well, I

535
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,520
Speaker 1: think here unless the problem. Yeah, with season five, so

536
00:32:29,760 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 1: we should say season five two. If you notice we

537
00:32:31,720 --> 00:32:34,280
Speaker 1: jumped quite a bit from nineteen seventy nine and nine

538
00:32:34,520 --> 00:32:37,960
Speaker 1: eighty five. Schoolhouse Rock was running all those years on

539
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: Saturday mornings. They just weren't any new ones. They were

540
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 1: the same ones that they were rerunning. The Class five

541
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:48,880
Speaker 1: Squire Rushtional says, give me give me four episodes or six?

542
00:32:49,200 --> 00:32:52,280
Speaker 1: Is it four or six? On computers? Yeah, and we're

543
00:32:52,280 --> 00:32:55,200
Speaker 1: gonna call the season a Scooter Computer and Mr Chips

544
00:32:55,240 --> 00:32:56,960
Speaker 1: what do you think of that? So it's what like,

545
00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,080
Speaker 1: uh computer with a bag of chips. It's like, no,

546
00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,240
Speaker 1: Mr Chips is a computer? Well, what's Scooter computer? It's

547
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: just a kid. And they said, well, what about the

548
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,880
Speaker 1: Goodbye Mr Chips? That great book? And no one's ever

549
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,680
Speaker 1: read that? What's a book? So, uh, it was a

550
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:19,280
Speaker 1: little confusing disdain for him. It's a little weird. I know,

551
00:33:19,400 --> 00:33:21,680
Speaker 1: I feel bad if that's not really how it went down,

552
00:33:21,760 --> 00:33:23,880
Speaker 1: but it sounds kind of like that classic story, you know,

553
00:33:24,640 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: like an executive takes over the creative and it just

554
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:30,240
Speaker 1: goes downhill. It's usually how it happens, UM, And I

555
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 1: do feel a little bit bad because you know, the

556
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,800
Speaker 1: originals were still involved. They got Mr Doro back on board,

557
00:33:35,960 --> 00:33:37,640
Speaker 1: and uh, I think they did the best they could.

558
00:33:37,720 --> 00:33:40,760
Speaker 1: But I think one of the issues is UM, all

559
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:43,600
Speaker 1: the other seasons, you know, math and science and history,

560
00:33:44,280 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: it's all civics. It's all baked in like that stuff.

561
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,920
Speaker 1: It's classic and didn't change when you're writing songs about uh,

562
00:33:51,720 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: data processing and basic computer language a couple of years later, like, no,

563
00:33:57,400 --> 00:34:00,480
Speaker 1: it's not relevant anymore, you know. So it's sort of

564
00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,440
Speaker 1: that's why no one's ever heard of it. Plus again

565
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:05,200
Speaker 1: they were like, so wait, Scooter computers the boy or

566
00:34:05,280 --> 00:34:08,120
Speaker 1: the computer he's hanging out with, right, And why is

567
00:34:08,200 --> 00:34:11,400
Speaker 1: the computer on roller skates? Yeah, just stuff like that,

568
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: you know. It was it was an undignified into something

569
00:34:14,880 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: really great. And so they pulled the plug on the

570
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:21,719
Speaker 1: whole thing. In They said, Hey, this Mary lou Retten lady.

571
00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:26,279
Speaker 1: We like her. She's got gumption, she's got apple pie

572
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:30,320
Speaker 1: coming out of her ears. Um, we love her, and

573
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,200
Speaker 1: we want to put her on TV, so they put

574
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: her interstitials on ABC Fun Fit. I'll bet that was

575
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,520
Speaker 1: the same time when Reagan made Arnold Schwarzenegger. Is like

576
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:48,880
Speaker 1: fitnesses are that? Bet totally remember that the Presidential fitness Test, right? Yeah? Man?

577
00:34:48,960 --> 00:34:51,880
Speaker 1: I failed that so many times. Yeah, I think I

578
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:54,200
Speaker 1: was always sick that day. It's like I gotta climb

579
00:34:54,200 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: a rope. Still to this day, I've never climbed a

580
00:34:57,480 --> 00:35:00,440
Speaker 1: rope in my life. I made it this far. You know,

581
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:02,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna be chased by a tiger on the way something.

582
00:35:02,960 --> 00:35:04,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, that's how you're gonna meet your

583
00:35:04,960 --> 00:35:06,800
Speaker 1: demise one day, just gonna be in like a burning

584
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:08,640
Speaker 1: building and a rope's just gonna fall from the ceiling

585
00:35:08,680 --> 00:35:15,120
Speaker 1: like a cartoon. Good. Uh. In the late eighties, UM,

586
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:19,359
Speaker 1: there was a student at Yukon Go Huskies that said,

587
00:35:19,360 --> 00:35:21,800
Speaker 1: I want to bring Schoolhouse Rock back. They started a petition.

588
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:23,960
Speaker 1: I could not find this person's name for the life

589
00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:28,239
Speaker 1: of me, but ABC said, you know what people want

590
00:35:28,320 --> 00:35:30,719
Speaker 1: this um, and I guess it took him a little

591
00:35:30,719 --> 00:35:33,479
Speaker 1: while to get around to it, but nine they brought

592
00:35:33,520 --> 00:35:39,640
Speaker 1: it back, rerunning UM all those classic tunes and cartoons

593
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,399
Speaker 1: and added some new stuff by Bob Doro in the Gang. Yeah,

594
00:35:44,440 --> 00:35:47,680
Speaker 1: they brought back the originals and this this season was

595
00:35:47,760 --> 00:35:52,000
Speaker 1: called UM Money Rock and they did a substantial number

596
00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:55,160
Speaker 1: of new episodes, but again written and performed by all

597
00:35:55,239 --> 00:35:59,080
Speaker 1: the original people. But a good starting or twenty years

598
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:03,720
Speaker 1: later um and they had things like UM seven fifty

599
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: once a Week, which is about maintaining your budget, Tyrannosaurs

600
00:36:07,719 --> 00:36:11,920
Speaker 1: Debt which is about the national debt, UM and plenty

601
00:36:11,960 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: of others. Remember the Tale of Mr Morton. That was

602
00:36:14,200 --> 00:36:17,160
Speaker 1: another Lindon Errand's offering. What was that one about? I

603
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:19,320
Speaker 1: can't remember exactly. I didn't go back and rewatch it,

604
00:36:19,400 --> 00:36:21,680
Speaker 1: but I remember he's like, they'll sell his money on

605
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:27,279
Speaker 1: Scratch Office or something. I don't think so. Um. But

606
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,080
Speaker 1: you know, again, the reason why this was that it

607
00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:33,240
Speaker 1: works so well, It's because these were men and women

608
00:36:33,280 --> 00:36:36,120
Speaker 1: who were used to selling products for a living and

609
00:36:36,239 --> 00:36:39,400
Speaker 1: it was just sort of a natural, uh, a natural

610
00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:40,960
Speaker 1: thing for them to do as an ad agency. It

611
00:36:41,000 --> 00:36:43,320
Speaker 1: seems weird at first when you're like an ad agency

612
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,640
Speaker 1: came up with Schoolhouse Rock, it kind of makes perfect

613
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 1: sense when you think about it. Yeah, yeah, I mean,

614
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,560
Speaker 1: they they were selling this these ideas to children in

615
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:57,319
Speaker 1: ways that were comprehensible the children, that were approachable by children. Um,

616
00:36:58,160 --> 00:37:00,360
Speaker 1: and they just kind of took the kids point of

617
00:37:00,440 --> 00:37:04,040
Speaker 1: views and packaged it for them. I think it's a

618
00:37:04,080 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: good way to put it. Yeah, So besides the Schoolhouse

619
00:37:07,680 --> 00:37:12,399
Speaker 1: Rock Rocks c D, which I still have. Actually, yeah,

620
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,040
Speaker 1: that nineties thing created a bit of a resurgence of it.

621
00:37:15,600 --> 00:37:18,319
Speaker 1: The resurgence in popularity for sure. Boy that Blind Melon

622
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: Three's matchic number. It was great. Yeah hear that one?

623
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:26,000
Speaker 1: Did you like them? I think Soup, their second album,

624
00:37:26,160 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 1: is one of the great underrated records of the nineties.

625
00:37:29,760 --> 00:37:32,160
Speaker 1: I don't recall that one man, It was think I

626
00:37:32,280 --> 00:37:34,919
Speaker 1: only heard their first album, but they that was the too.

627
00:37:35,440 --> 00:37:38,080
Speaker 1: They I think they made like the pop charts right

628
00:37:38,120 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: out of the gate and just kind of were unfairly

629
00:37:40,880 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: labeled as a pop group even though they really weren't.

630
00:37:43,320 --> 00:37:45,359
Speaker 1: They were because a lot more to them. No rain

631
00:37:45,440 --> 00:37:48,399
Speaker 1: song and the catchy video with the whole girl and everything. Yeah,

632
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:50,640
Speaker 1: Soup was good, man, you just checked that out. Well,

633
00:37:50,719 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: it's very good, very sad what happened to him? Hey

634
00:37:54,440 --> 00:37:56,520
Speaker 1: O deed and they didn't find him for a while, right,

635
00:37:57,200 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 1: I don't remember that part, but maybe I think I

636
00:37:59,719 --> 00:38:02,759
Speaker 1: think no nobody missed him for a little while or

637
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:07,960
Speaker 1: something like that, but a waste um in though there

638
00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:10,759
Speaker 1: was another resurgent. I guess I was before the CD

639
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:15,120
Speaker 1: uh when they took it to the stage with Schoolhouse

640
00:38:15,239 --> 00:38:20,959
Speaker 1: Rock Live, which kind of started out as most great

641
00:38:21,040 --> 00:38:23,560
Speaker 1: theater like this in a in a sort of a

642
00:38:23,640 --> 00:38:26,640
Speaker 1: basement black box theater in Chicago, and it just grew

643
00:38:26,719 --> 00:38:29,600
Speaker 1: from there to eventually an off Broadway run. Yeah, not

644
00:38:29,760 --> 00:38:32,080
Speaker 1: just that. It started in the basement theater of a

645
00:38:32,239 --> 00:38:36,279
Speaker 1: vegetarian restaurant in Chicago. Just to add that extra little

646
00:38:36,480 --> 00:38:39,279
Speaker 1: dose to it. Yeah, why not made it on to

647
00:38:39,360 --> 00:38:41,880
Speaker 1: Off Broadway. Yeah, it ran for four solid years and

648
00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:45,279
Speaker 1: then they had a touring version. Um. I remember wanting

649
00:38:45,360 --> 00:38:48,919
Speaker 1: to see it, but and I think I was living

650
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: in New Jersey at the time. I should have gone

651
00:38:51,719 --> 00:38:53,319
Speaker 1: and seen it. I think I had no money at

652
00:38:53,360 --> 00:38:55,440
Speaker 1: the time. I think it still might you still might

653
00:38:55,480 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 1: be able to catch it. There's a group called the

654
00:38:57,239 --> 00:39:02,799
Speaker 1: Theater Bomb Theater Bam Chicago, Theater Bam Chicago, and they're

655
00:39:02,840 --> 00:39:05,840
Speaker 1: still doing shows. They're still touring. As far as I know,

656
00:39:07,440 --> 00:39:09,400
Speaker 1: I need to do my U Free to Be You

657
00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:11,800
Speaker 1: and Me live show. That's one of my dreams. I

658
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: talked about that before. There isn't that Rosy Greer one? Yeah,

659
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:17,840
Speaker 1: but did he do the whole album or just that

660
00:39:17,960 --> 00:39:21,240
Speaker 1: one song? Just the one? It was conceived by Marlo Thomas.

661
00:39:21,440 --> 00:39:24,200
Speaker 1: That's pretty great. But um yeah, that was another like

662
00:39:24,560 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: that one hits me square in the face, still from childhood,

663
00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: right in the bread best right in the breadbasket. Uh

664
00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:35,200
Speaker 1: ninety seven they had a twenty fifth anniversary UH package

665
00:39:35,719 --> 00:39:39,239
Speaker 1: of VHS tapes. So think about this, like it goes

666
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,560
Speaker 1: up the air in n then all of a sudden

667
00:39:43,640 --> 00:39:48,120
Speaker 1: ninety ninety seven, there's like schoolhouse Rock everywhere. It will

668
00:39:48,160 --> 00:39:52,200
Speaker 1: never die, no, And I think like this was one

669
00:39:52,280 --> 00:39:56,880
Speaker 1: of the first instances because dude, admittedly Generation and X

670
00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:01,799
Speaker 1: is extremely nostalgic as far as generations, Yeah, very nostalgic.

671
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,719
Speaker 1: I would propose that Schoolhouse Rock was the thing that

672
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,399
Speaker 1: kicked it off as far as gen X nostalgia goes. Well,

673
00:40:10,520 --> 00:40:13,759
Speaker 1: it definitely was something that was so drilled into our consciousness.

674
00:40:14,960 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: It gets a touchstone, right, But I mean, the surgeonce

675
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,040
Speaker 1: of it, I think is the is the first example

676
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:26,640
Speaker 1: of just how nostalgic as a generation generation exists for sure,

677
00:40:26,800 --> 00:40:30,800
Speaker 1: that's that's mine. You got Sharknado. I'm predicting that that

678
00:40:30,880 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 1: will be rooted out by historians and years to come.

679
00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:37,640
Speaker 1: Dig that one out of the vault. Uh. Maybe at

680
00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:39,640
Speaker 1: the place of your death, like a plaque next to

681
00:40:39,719 --> 00:40:44,640
Speaker 1: that rope that you couldn't climb will be a memorial,

682
00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:50,560
Speaker 1: will be like rope Jeez, you already forgot. Uh. Kennedy

683
00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:54,279
Speaker 1: Center had a sing along for the fourtieth anniversary, two

684
00:40:54,320 --> 00:40:57,920
Speaker 1: thousand people in attendance. UM. Pretty amazing. I would have

685
00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:00,839
Speaker 1: done anything to have gone to that. UM. And then

686
00:41:01,080 --> 00:41:05,720
Speaker 1: it's been parodied and homaged over the years and everything

687
00:41:05,800 --> 00:41:08,839
Speaker 1: from The Simpsons to Saturday Night Live. Did you see

688
00:41:08,880 --> 00:41:13,200
Speaker 1: Conspiracy Rock? Conspiracy Theory Dude? That was a TV fun

689
00:41:13,280 --> 00:41:16,080
Speaker 1: house bit, right, yeah, by Robert Smigel. It's one of

690
00:41:16,120 --> 00:41:20,040
Speaker 1: the all time great man. He nails nails the conspiracy theory,

691
00:41:20,480 --> 00:41:24,600
Speaker 1: Nail's Schoolhouse Rock. But it's all about how these major

692
00:41:24,719 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: corporations like GE and Westinghouse own the media they owned

693
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:32,680
Speaker 1: like ABC, NBC, all these um media outlets, and how

694
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:38,120
Speaker 1: they can use it to shape opinion and squash UM opinions.

695
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:41,320
Speaker 1: That disagree with them or their products, and um choose

696
00:41:41,360 --> 00:41:45,359
Speaker 1: what to report on. It is so good. Go watch

697
00:41:45,440 --> 00:41:48,560
Speaker 1: it right now. It's on YouTube. Um. But apparently there's

698
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:51,080
Speaker 1: a bit of a conspiracy theory around it as well,

699
00:41:51,360 --> 00:41:55,320
Speaker 1: because it aired on the actual Saturday Live episode. But

700
00:41:55,400 --> 00:41:57,400
Speaker 1: then when they reran it and I think released that

701
00:41:57,440 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: episode on DVD, it wasn't there. They they edited it out,

702
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:07,080
Speaker 1: and um, supposedly it was just because Lauren Michaels didn't

703
00:42:07,080 --> 00:42:10,279
Speaker 1: think it was funny. There's just no way that that's

704
00:42:10,280 --> 00:42:13,759
Speaker 1: all it was. It was so I'm thinking, no, it

705
00:42:13,920 --> 00:42:18,000
Speaker 1: was such a smack in the face too NBC and

706
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:21,200
Speaker 1: like all the other ones that, yeah, well, and they

707
00:42:21,280 --> 00:42:23,719
Speaker 1: just had one a couple of years ago on that

708
00:42:24,440 --> 00:42:26,239
Speaker 1: it wasn't homage. I'm just a bill that was pretty

709
00:42:26,280 --> 00:42:30,120
Speaker 1: great too. Yeah, this was better. You gotta see it, man. Yeah,

710
00:42:30,160 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: I have a feeling I have and I just don't

711
00:42:31,719 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: know it. He nailed it. I'll let you know all

712
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,040
Speaker 1: text you and say I have seen it, and you'll say,

713
00:42:37,080 --> 00:42:43,840
Speaker 1: who's this. I don't have your number. So I actually

714
00:42:43,920 --> 00:42:46,600
Speaker 1: ran across a little bit as great as Schoolhouse Rock is.

715
00:42:46,960 --> 00:42:51,120
Speaker 1: Actually ran across criticism of it. What yeah, boy, are

716
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:54,200
Speaker 1: you gonna should just leave the room. Maybe I'm about

717
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: to get angry. You might want to, all right. So

718
00:42:58,320 --> 00:43:04,160
Speaker 1: they were teaching very broad concepts to kids in ways

719
00:43:04,200 --> 00:43:07,360
Speaker 1: that kids could understand, and when you're when you're coming,

720
00:43:08,320 --> 00:43:13,200
Speaker 1: when you're coming at them with multiplication or grammar whatever.

721
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:18,400
Speaker 1: But apparently especially with the History Rocks or America Rock Season,

722
00:43:19,040 --> 00:43:21,279
Speaker 1: depending on what you want to call it, that's where

723
00:43:21,280 --> 00:43:23,480
Speaker 1: the criticism tends to come out. So there's one called

724
00:43:23,560 --> 00:43:25,960
Speaker 1: elbow Room. Did you remember that one? Got that got

725
00:43:26,040 --> 00:43:28,319
Speaker 1: to get you some elbow Room where it's about there's

726
00:43:28,400 --> 00:43:32,960
Speaker 1: so many white settlers that we just got to spread westward. Okay,

727
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: I'll see where this is going. Not a single Native

728
00:43:35,200 --> 00:43:39,240
Speaker 1: American is shown in this westward westward spread. They actually

729
00:43:39,360 --> 00:43:44,439
Speaker 1: mentioned that it's God's will manifest destiny. So the whole

730
00:43:44,480 --> 00:43:46,560
Speaker 1: thing kind of I don't want to say it came

731
00:43:46,640 --> 00:43:48,799
Speaker 1: under fire because it's not like everybody's like, oh yeah,

732
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:52,800
Speaker 1: elbow Room forget Schoolhouse Rock. Very few people are. But

733
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:56,040
Speaker 1: there's criticism of Schoolhouse Rock and that it really kind

734
00:43:56,080 --> 00:44:02,239
Speaker 1: of fed American children. This the the popular line on things,

735
00:44:02,680 --> 00:44:04,959
Speaker 1: and it was just exactly the kind of stuff where

736
00:44:05,320 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 1: when you grow up you're like, wow, I was really misled.

737
00:44:08,440 --> 00:44:10,600
Speaker 1: This was first explained to me as a child. Ye.

738
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,680
Speaker 1: So well, we talked about that a lot too, about

739
00:44:13,760 --> 00:44:18,000
Speaker 1: how schools, especially in like the seventies and eighties, uh,

740
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:23,239
Speaker 1: whitewashed a lot of stuff. So this was part of that.

741
00:44:23,360 --> 00:44:25,359
Speaker 1: I can see that. I mean it was and I'm

742
00:44:25,400 --> 00:44:28,080
Speaker 1: not justifying it, but it was definitely of the times

743
00:44:29,040 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: for sure, you know, which is why you know, I

744
00:44:31,360 --> 00:44:33,759
Speaker 1: think that they that these creatives were like, we can't

745
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:36,000
Speaker 1: say this to kids, you know. I think that there's

746
00:44:36,040 --> 00:44:38,520
Speaker 1: definitely been more of an awakening in recent years. But

747
00:44:38,760 --> 00:44:42,719
Speaker 1: I was right, yeah, and this is another name for

748
00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:44,919
Speaker 1: what they were talking about, Like forced removal was turned

749
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:49,799
Speaker 1: into get you gotta gives some elbow roof. You know though,

750
00:44:49,880 --> 00:44:52,600
Speaker 1: I want to know, um chuck, because I'm not in

751
00:44:52,760 --> 00:44:55,360
Speaker 1: school and I don't have a child in school. I

752
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,120
Speaker 1: don't have a child at all. I have a four

753
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:04,480
Speaker 1: legged child. But are they still misleading kids like they

754
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:07,400
Speaker 1: did when we were young? Do we just assume now

755
00:45:07,480 --> 00:45:10,120
Speaker 1: that we know the deal that they don't do that

756
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:12,960
Speaker 1: any longer or are they still doing it? So any

757
00:45:13,239 --> 00:45:16,680
Speaker 1: history teachers out there that are like fifth six seventh grade,

758
00:45:17,200 --> 00:45:20,360
Speaker 1: because that's what I remember really being just overtly lied to.

759
00:45:20,560 --> 00:45:22,960
Speaker 1: And then as we got a little past that, they

760
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,080
Speaker 1: started to be like, well, maybe the Native Americans didn't

761
00:45:26,120 --> 00:45:28,560
Speaker 1: really want to leave, and then it just got a

762
00:45:28,600 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: little more legitimate. So I want to know, teachers out

763
00:45:32,120 --> 00:45:35,160
Speaker 1: there let us know. I bet the answer will get

764
00:45:35,360 --> 00:45:38,240
Speaker 1: is that we've come a long way, and it probably

765
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:42,560
Speaker 1: depends on your district. Oh yeah, and maybe even your teacher. Yeah,

766
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:45,200
Speaker 1: I can see that. Um. I bet there's not like

767
00:45:45,280 --> 00:45:48,560
Speaker 1: a one sweeping answer for that one, but there's definitely

768
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:51,000
Speaker 1: been progress, you know, I would guess, yeah, who would

769
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:54,120
Speaker 1: let us know? As Tyler Murphy let us know. Well,

770
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,000
Speaker 1: I know what he's doing. He's doing all the right things.

771
00:45:56,080 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: Oh yeah, he's up on the desk opening minds. Uh

772
00:46:01,440 --> 00:46:05,839
Speaker 1: so you're ready for my favorite? Uh rufus Xavier Sasaparilla.

773
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 1: What was that one about? Oh yeah, I have a

774
00:46:12,080 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 1: hard time expressing how much joy this song brings me. Still, Yeah,

775
00:46:17,800 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: I listened to it a lot. If I'm ever down,

776
00:46:21,400 --> 00:46:25,400
Speaker 1: that's the song that's pretty great. It's amazing, it's the

777
00:46:25,520 --> 00:46:30,560
Speaker 1: word play is unbelievable, and it's another Sheldon song. Uh

778
00:46:30,880 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: like how it's it's very fast. How he like every Uh.

779
00:46:34,400 --> 00:46:35,879
Speaker 1: I looked up to see if people did it live

780
00:46:35,960 --> 00:46:39,160
Speaker 1: and stuff, and everyone always slows it down because nobody

781
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:44,040
Speaker 1: can fast. Well, it's just very complex, and the whole

782
00:46:44,040 --> 00:46:46,920
Speaker 1: idea of the song is is the complexity of all

783
00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:50,359
Speaker 1: these nouns that you can replace with pronouns. I got

784
00:46:50,400 --> 00:46:54,440
Speaker 1: a friend named Rufus Xavier Sasaparilla, and you know, they

785
00:46:54,520 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 1: go to the zoo and there's an art vark and

786
00:46:56,280 --> 00:46:58,440
Speaker 1: and armadillo and all these big words. He's like, I

787
00:46:58,480 --> 00:47:00,759
Speaker 1: could say that, or could say he did this and

788
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:05,680
Speaker 1: we did that, and she said this. Uh yeah, it's

789
00:47:05,719 --> 00:47:09,200
Speaker 1: a word that takes the place of a noun like kangaroo.

790
00:47:09,360 --> 00:47:11,440
Speaker 1: Can we play it? You know what? We wouldn't because

791
00:47:11,480 --> 00:47:16,400
Speaker 1: of law. They should make an actually want about copyright infringement.

792
00:47:17,360 --> 00:47:19,800
Speaker 1: It was started out as a bill. Yeah, so we

793
00:47:19,840 --> 00:47:21,640
Speaker 1: probably can't play enough of it to do with justice.

794
00:47:21,640 --> 00:47:24,839
Speaker 1: So I just say, go and listen to that song

795
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:28,960
Speaker 1: in full, because it's delightful. All right, I'll do that. Man,

796
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:31,759
Speaker 1: they go to the zoo, there's animals. I'll pile on

797
00:47:31,840 --> 00:47:36,400
Speaker 1: a bus. They Yeah, this girl in Rufus Xavier Sasparilla.

798
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:40,319
Speaker 1: They yeah, exactly, it's a place now. Uh you got

799
00:47:40,320 --> 00:47:43,400
Speaker 1: anything else? No, but there there probably will be a

800
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 1: tag on this one with Mr Nastanovich or or with

801
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:50,719
Speaker 1: me just recounting his tail of No More Kings. So, uh,

802
00:47:51,120 --> 00:47:53,600
Speaker 1: if you want to know more about Schoolhouse ROCKO read

803
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,120
Speaker 1: this article on how Stuff works dot com. And since

804
00:47:56,160 --> 00:47:58,680
Speaker 1: I said that, it may be time for listener and

805
00:47:58,760 --> 00:48:04,440
Speaker 1: mail with Bob nistan Bits, all right, So uh now,

806
00:48:04,719 --> 00:48:09,319
Speaker 1: as promised or as hope fully promised, we have via

807
00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:14,600
Speaker 1: telephone in the studio Mr Bob Nastanovich, who um is

808
00:48:14,840 --> 00:48:16,880
Speaker 1: actually a member of two of my favorite bands of

809
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,799
Speaker 1: all time, both Pavement and Silver Jews, And um, it's

810
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:23,560
Speaker 1: a real treat to have you here, Bob. We did

811
00:48:23,640 --> 00:48:27,239
Speaker 1: a show on Schoolhouse Rock and talked kind of at

812
00:48:27,360 --> 00:48:32,240
Speaker 1: length about pavements efforts toward that. Uh. I guess late nineties,

813
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: uh c D and got in touch with you and

814
00:48:36,120 --> 00:48:37,920
Speaker 1: you said you had a couple of stories to tell.

815
00:48:38,239 --> 00:48:40,920
Speaker 1: It was a we were in Memphis, we were supposed

816
00:48:40,960 --> 00:48:44,880
Speaker 1: to be making a Silver Jews record, and um, the

817
00:48:45,040 --> 00:48:48,160
Speaker 1: singer of Silver Juice, David Berman, decided he did not

818
00:48:48,280 --> 00:48:51,600
Speaker 1: want to make the record. And he went home and

819
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:55,320
Speaker 1: we'd already booked a week of studio time Silver Juice

820
00:48:55,400 --> 00:48:59,840
Speaker 1: had and UM. Then subsequently we were Stephen and my

821
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:04,759
Speaker 1: health and Steve West were unceremoniously fired from Silver Juice. UM.

822
00:49:05,200 --> 00:49:08,680
Speaker 1: That's beside the point. We were kind of like at

823
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:14,120
Speaker 1: all the studio time that David was supposed to pay

824
00:49:14,239 --> 00:49:16,840
Speaker 1: for it, so to bail him out, Pavement sort of

825
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:23,800
Speaker 1: took that and made a record so Stephen, Stephen thankfully

826
00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:27,719
Speaker 1: had three songs and we made a specific trimmy p

827
00:49:27,960 --> 00:49:33,000
Speaker 1: But I guess most significantly in in regards to this project,

828
00:49:33,120 --> 00:49:36,920
Speaker 1: Jackie Ferry and dear friend of ours, was supervising the

829
00:49:37,080 --> 00:49:41,640
Speaker 1: Schoolhouse Rock not Blation and Um. She gave us our

830
00:49:41,719 --> 00:49:45,719
Speaker 1: choice of songs, and it was fairly obvious to us

831
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: that no More King's you know um had a lot

832
00:49:50,840 --> 00:49:54,560
Speaker 1: of appeal. It's always our favorite one kids Boston Tea

833
00:49:54,640 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: party being UM kind of we were able to use

834
00:49:59,080 --> 00:50:01,800
Speaker 1: the vocal style links of Steve West to our advantage,

835
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:08,040
Speaker 1: I believe, for the first time in band history, and

836
00:50:08,160 --> 00:50:10,600
Speaker 1: it all turned up to be. We were very pleased

837
00:50:10,680 --> 00:50:14,440
Speaker 1: with it, were very pleased with all of it. But

838
00:50:16,239 --> 00:50:19,839
Speaker 1: and I think that it's an outstanding compilation and it's

839
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:23,520
Speaker 1: one of those things in pavements time that I feel

840
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:25,640
Speaker 1: like we actually did a good job on. Now, what

841
00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,479
Speaker 1: what did Steve West do for that one? He played

842
00:50:29,560 --> 00:50:33,560
Speaker 1: drums and then um all the deep voice rambling in

843
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:40,640
Speaker 1: the background, mostly him. He's got an incredible voice, speaking voice.

844
00:50:40,680 --> 00:50:44,719
Speaker 1: He's one of the people that you can hear from

845
00:50:44,719 --> 00:50:47,000
Speaker 1: a hundred and fifty feet away and with a win,

846
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,480
Speaker 1: we've got a beautiful deep voice. So um we he's

847
00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: doing all like the ranting and raving. Um, it was

848
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,319
Speaker 1: all pretty jubilant. We had a good times. Only time

849
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,000
Speaker 1: the three of us ever recorded together as Pavement, and

850
00:51:05,760 --> 00:51:08,640
Speaker 1: but um, I feel like we made a good choice

851
00:51:09,320 --> 00:51:11,799
Speaker 1: and we just loved that song. And it was one

852
00:51:11,920 --> 00:51:16,400
Speaker 1: take over, yeah, one take on the instrumental and just

853
00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:22,800
Speaker 1: um some vocal dubbing. Probably took eight minutes wow. And

854
00:51:22,840 --> 00:51:26,480
Speaker 1: it was just the three of you, oh yeah, yeah,

855
00:51:26,600 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: just the three of us real, the only ones there

856
00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: because we thought it was gonna be Silver Jooes and

857
00:51:29,640 --> 00:51:34,560
Speaker 1: that that was in Silver Jooes. So Camberg and I

858
00:51:34,719 --> 00:51:38,600
Speaker 1: Bold we're at home and I don't even know if

859
00:51:38,640 --> 00:51:41,080
Speaker 1: they were contacted. We made that specific trim ep that

860
00:51:41,200 --> 00:51:45,239
Speaker 1: song Give It a Day during the same session, and

861
00:51:46,360 --> 00:51:48,120
Speaker 1: a couple other songs are on the B side of

862
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:51,320
Speaker 1: that thing. But um, now the school House Rock was

863
00:51:53,440 --> 00:51:55,360
Speaker 1: the kind of thing pop mind like, well, we have

864
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:57,520
Speaker 1: anything to do, and seems like I got this one song.

865
00:51:57,560 --> 00:51:59,240
Speaker 1: He's like, well, you have to do this thing for Jackie.

866
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:01,120
Speaker 1: We have to do someings jack We probably sort of

867
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: planning on doing it anyways. But Jackie at the time

868
00:52:04,200 --> 00:52:08,799
Speaker 1: was a BJ at MTV. Then she later became our

869
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:14,720
Speaker 1: um so she was she was the nanny for Courtney

870
00:52:14,760 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: and Kurt, for Francis Bean Cobain, and then she was

871
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:23,560
Speaker 1: a tour manager for Pavement. In fact, she has she's

872
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:29,520
Speaker 1: been battling cancer for over a decade. Um but um.

873
00:52:29,600 --> 00:52:35,600
Speaker 1: One interesting artifact that she owns is the actual Cardigan

874
00:52:36,160 --> 00:52:41,239
Speaker 1: Cardigan's um button up cardigan sweater that Kurt Cobain wore

875
00:52:41,280 --> 00:52:49,879
Speaker 1: it in the famous MTV Unplugged performance. So yeah, she's

876
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:54,360
Speaker 1: quite a character, but it was it was her project,

877
00:52:56,120 --> 00:53:00,279
Speaker 1: and you know, she was a good friend, and um,

878
00:53:01,280 --> 00:53:02,960
Speaker 1: we want to do the best we could for her.

879
00:53:04,040 --> 00:53:06,160
Speaker 1: I didn't really care about anything else. We didn't even

880
00:53:06,200 --> 00:53:09,640
Speaker 1: realize We didn't know whether there was a good tiny

881
00:53:09,760 --> 00:53:12,439
Speaker 1: thing like a limit edation of like whatever. But yeah,

882
00:53:12,920 --> 00:53:15,399
Speaker 1: funnily enough, my wife that was the first Payment song

883
00:53:15,520 --> 00:53:20,239
Speaker 1: she ever heard because her sister, Yeah, her sister bought

884
00:53:20,280 --> 00:53:23,480
Speaker 1: the school Loss rock thing when her sister was like fourteen,

885
00:53:23,560 --> 00:53:26,919
Speaker 1: and but what my wife went would have been about ten,

886
00:53:28,200 --> 00:53:31,160
Speaker 1: and she heard that is the first time she ever

887
00:53:31,239 --> 00:53:35,759
Speaker 1: heard Payment. That's pretty funny. It We were talking a

888
00:53:35,840 --> 00:53:38,800
Speaker 1: little bit about, um, just your take and kind of

889
00:53:38,880 --> 00:53:41,040
Speaker 1: just the different takes of all the artists on that

890
00:53:41,120 --> 00:53:44,960
Speaker 1: compilation and a lot of more pretty straightforward, and um,

891
00:53:45,120 --> 00:53:47,640
Speaker 1: I think I really like the Pavement one the most

892
00:53:48,200 --> 00:53:51,560
Speaker 1: because it was it was kind of the perfect mix

893
00:53:51,680 --> 00:53:55,640
Speaker 1: of very straightforward at times and then just totally pavement

894
00:53:56,120 --> 00:54:01,719
Speaker 1: pavementized at times. Yeah. Very Um, we don't I mean

895
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,440
Speaker 1: we'd be straightforward. I don't think we're kind of good

896
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,680
Speaker 1: enough to do things straightforward. Like like I think it's

897
00:54:07,800 --> 00:54:10,000
Speaker 1: like you think of like a band like Nickel Creek

898
00:54:10,280 --> 00:54:12,680
Speaker 1: covering our songs been on a stranger they can and

899
00:54:12,760 --> 00:54:16,560
Speaker 1: they kind of American at it or whatever. But like

900
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:18,600
Speaker 1: in order to do like straight things, you've gotta be

901
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:21,920
Speaker 1: you gotta be good or else you're gonna come of

902
00:54:22,000 --> 00:54:26,239
Speaker 1: humiliate yourself, like for example, like are am doing like

903
00:54:26,360 --> 00:54:30,120
Speaker 1: Pylon is crazy? They could do that pretty straight because

904
00:54:30,160 --> 00:54:33,239
Speaker 1: they have that sound they just you know, but I

905
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:34,920
Speaker 1: think that like I've heard a lot of cover songs

906
00:54:35,040 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 1: where it's like a great song and like a somebody

907
00:54:39,200 --> 00:54:41,440
Speaker 1: with a great voice, you know, usually like a female

908
00:54:41,480 --> 00:54:44,120
Speaker 1: will we'll sing it pretty straight. And just the fact

909
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:47,120
Speaker 1: that it's a somebody with a gorgeous voice, you know,

910
00:54:47,280 --> 00:54:50,920
Speaker 1: preferring a classic, it sort of works. But now we're

911
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:53,000
Speaker 1: none of us are none of us are good enough

912
00:54:53,040 --> 00:54:54,640
Speaker 1: to do that. We had we had to devise our

913
00:54:54,680 --> 00:54:56,880
Speaker 1: own take on it. You know. Well, I thought it

914
00:54:57,000 --> 00:55:00,920
Speaker 1: totally worked. Was the Schoolhouse Rock? Um? I mean, was

915
00:55:00,960 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: that something that you guys were into or was there

916
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:05,640
Speaker 1: much decision I mean, besides the fact that it was

917
00:55:05,719 --> 00:55:08,960
Speaker 1: your friend asking was it something that you thought was

918
00:55:09,040 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: kind of cool or did you feel like you should

919
00:55:12,640 --> 00:55:14,640
Speaker 1: do it? Yeah, it was a great idea. At the time,

920
00:55:14,719 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: we thought it was a great idea. And at that

921
00:55:17,400 --> 00:55:22,080
Speaker 1: point in our lives, Um, I'm guessing it was like

922
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:29,120
Speaker 1: somewhere in there we've forgotten you know, you like that

923
00:55:29,239 --> 00:55:33,000
Speaker 1: point where you know that we hadn't seen or heard

924
00:55:33,000 --> 00:55:35,239
Speaker 1: any of that. The only one that I can really

925
00:55:35,280 --> 00:55:36,839
Speaker 1: remember off the top of my head at the time

926
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: was the conjunction Junction. You know, yeah, of course, what's

927
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:41,759
Speaker 1: your function? But like you know, those are the some

928
00:55:41,840 --> 00:55:44,360
Speaker 1: of the first songs when we were little kids, like

929
00:55:44,480 --> 00:55:46,399
Speaker 1: under ten years old that got stuck in our head.

930
00:55:48,719 --> 00:55:51,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, I just thought it was I mean, if anything,

931
00:55:53,000 --> 00:55:55,040
Speaker 1: the only negative I thought it might be a little

932
00:55:55,080 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: bit childish and corny. Um. But you know, then as

933
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,920
Speaker 1: it came together, um, it just seemed like a very

934
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,640
Speaker 1: worthwhile project to me. And you know, she was pretty

935
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:14,520
Speaker 1: earnest Jackie, and and I'm happy it all worked out.

936
00:56:14,560 --> 00:56:16,759
Speaker 1: I kind of I think it's actually become like sort

937
00:56:16,800 --> 00:56:19,680
Speaker 1: of a one of the more significant things that Payment

938
00:56:19,760 --> 00:56:23,640
Speaker 1: ever did, sort of outside the realm of Pavement. Um,

939
00:56:23,760 --> 00:56:26,560
Speaker 1: I'll still being Pavement, Like you know, I don't I

940
00:56:26,600 --> 00:56:29,040
Speaker 1: don't even know. I'm the kind of person in regards

941
00:56:29,040 --> 00:56:30,959
Speaker 1: to that band that would find out about things to last.

942
00:56:31,120 --> 00:56:33,640
Speaker 1: So because I lived in Louisville and I was always

943
00:56:33,680 --> 00:56:37,319
Speaker 1: at the race track, and and you know, people would say, hey,

944
00:56:37,320 --> 00:56:38,799
Speaker 1: you know what, you're gonna be making a new album

945
00:56:38,840 --> 00:56:40,360
Speaker 1: like two months. I wouldn't know anything about it or

946
00:56:40,400 --> 00:56:42,319
Speaker 1: like you know, you're going on tour, you're starting in London,

947
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:45,120
Speaker 1: I would like you know, I just wouldn't even know.

948
00:56:45,440 --> 00:56:47,959
Speaker 1: And like so anything that rolled through the door there

949
00:56:48,600 --> 00:56:52,920
Speaker 1: like request to do stuff, I never knew about him,

950
00:56:52,920 --> 00:56:55,480
Speaker 1: you know, unless we're gonna knew him, you know, so

951
00:56:58,080 --> 00:57:00,040
Speaker 1: you can see where I was on the pavement A

952
00:57:00,120 --> 00:57:04,480
Speaker 1: payment totem pole. Well man, I always call you pavor

953
00:57:04,800 --> 00:57:09,320
Speaker 1: payment secret weapon. Uh yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that

954
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:11,480
Speaker 1: was something about your addition to the band that really

955
00:57:11,560 --> 00:57:15,320
Speaker 1: just sort of mixed everything up, whether it was you know,

956
00:57:15,560 --> 00:57:18,920
Speaker 1: the percussive elements are just you coming in uh with

957
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:24,920
Speaker 1: your your unique take on backing vocals. Yeah, no, I um,

958
00:57:26,240 --> 00:57:31,280
Speaker 1: I think I presented the element really not entirely knowing

959
00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:33,400
Speaker 1: what I was doing, and that was true. And the

960
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:36,840
Speaker 1: funny thing about it is like even at this point

961
00:57:36,880 --> 00:57:39,360
Speaker 1: in my life and people who are completely unaware of pavement,

962
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:44,439
Speaker 1: mostly from this industry, the horse racing industry, like heard

963
00:57:44,480 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: I was was in a band or even a successful band,

964
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:49,840
Speaker 1: They can't even they just didn't make any sense to them.

965
00:57:49,920 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: And then they'll also, um, you know, and they'll have

966
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,080
Speaker 1: to like look it up on Google or whatever to

967
00:57:57,120 --> 00:57:59,680
Speaker 1: realize that, yeah, we were actually like a band that

968
00:57:59,720 --> 00:58:05,560
Speaker 1: made records and stuff. And then um, and then the

969
00:58:05,640 --> 00:58:08,960
Speaker 1: funny thing is it's always asked me that, you know,

970
00:58:09,080 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: if it's musico types or something. I'm like, one thing

971
00:58:12,480 --> 00:58:16,479
Speaker 1: I'm really sort of unaware of in the human race.

972
00:58:17,640 --> 00:58:19,480
Speaker 1: I have no feel for people that like kind of

973
00:58:19,600 --> 00:58:24,960
Speaker 1: collect musical gear and take music really really seriously, like

974
00:58:25,080 --> 00:58:28,960
Speaker 1: playing music really seriously and like jam and like or

975
00:58:29,040 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 1: just really like have this incredibly dry approach to like

976
00:58:32,840 --> 00:58:37,080
Speaker 1: like gear heads, like really really serious and like people

977
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,200
Speaker 1: ask me to jam and I don't. I mean my

978
00:58:41,360 --> 00:58:43,480
Speaker 1: idea of I don't. I don't jam. I mean I

979
00:58:43,560 --> 00:58:47,800
Speaker 1: can't imagine jamming, Like what does that even mean? Like, um,

980
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:53,680
Speaker 1: really awkward, Like it's always awkward, Like people asked me

981
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,520
Speaker 1: to do something, and then I'll be like, oh, man,

982
00:58:56,800 --> 00:58:59,480
Speaker 1: like uh, you know, like I gotta figure out a

983
00:58:59,520 --> 00:59:01,120
Speaker 1: way to get out of this, you know, because like

984
00:59:02,760 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: a my skills like they're not gonna really not gonna

985
00:59:05,240 --> 00:59:07,040
Speaker 1: believe them in a band. Went like once I show

986
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:09,560
Speaker 1: up with like whatever, I have two drums or whatever

987
00:59:09,600 --> 00:59:11,040
Speaker 1: and start hitting and they're gonna be like, there's no

988
00:59:11,160 --> 00:59:12,720
Speaker 1: way this guy was in a band like this is

989
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:17,720
Speaker 1: a fake you know, so very strange, very strange. Well

990
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:19,560
Speaker 1: you just gotta say no, man, I'm the secret weapon,

991
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,720
Speaker 1: and the secret weapon doesn't Yeah, like this like the

992
00:59:23,880 --> 00:59:28,160
Speaker 1: spice and like some sort of bowl of burgoo or something.

993
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,800
Speaker 1: I don't even know. It was just like the whole

994
00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:37,040
Speaker 1: experience was pretty magical. Um, it still doesn't really make

995
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:41,400
Speaker 1: that much sense to me, you know, I just I

996
00:59:41,520 --> 00:59:44,600
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it, for sure. But in regards to that

997
00:59:44,800 --> 00:59:47,880
Speaker 1: that specific project, that's something that went like really smoothly,

998
00:59:47,960 --> 00:59:50,640
Speaker 1: like it never got to the point. I mean it

999
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,960
Speaker 1: was literally like Stephen I'm sure probably worked on it

1000
00:59:55,240 --> 00:59:58,680
Speaker 1: that morning or something. But when when they press record

1001
00:59:58,760 --> 01:00:00,880
Speaker 1: on that lost Rock thing, that thing was a humbling

1002
01:00:01,000 --> 01:00:02,400
Speaker 1: or it was in and out the door, Doug Easy.

1003
01:00:02,440 --> 01:00:05,160
Speaker 1: It's like that's good, you know, like, yeah, that's probably

1004
01:00:05,200 --> 01:00:07,200
Speaker 1: a good approach for something like that because you don't

1005
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: want to overthink it and then it becomes a thing

1006
01:00:10,520 --> 01:00:13,840
Speaker 1: and it's stressful. Perhaps, so I think that approach to

1007
01:00:13,960 --> 01:00:15,600
Speaker 1: just get in there and like knock it out was

1008
01:00:15,760 --> 01:00:17,760
Speaker 1: probably the way to go. It certainly worked out in

1009
01:00:17,840 --> 01:00:20,560
Speaker 1: this case. Yeah, And it's a song that has no

1010
01:00:20,760 --> 01:00:23,280
Speaker 1: history within the context of the band. You know, it's

1011
01:00:23,280 --> 01:00:25,600
Speaker 1: not like something that we've been working on or something

1012
01:00:25,680 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: have been sitting there or something that have been played

1013
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:30,720
Speaker 1: live or you know. I mean I think that we

1014
01:00:30,880 --> 01:00:34,960
Speaker 1: had to you know, pavement ize it and give it

1015
01:00:35,000 --> 01:00:38,520
Speaker 1: a bit of an original spin because that's the only

1016
01:00:38,560 --> 01:00:40,400
Speaker 1: way that we can really do it. I mean, like,

1017
01:00:41,000 --> 01:00:43,360
Speaker 1: you know, like we were talking about with a straight thing,

1018
01:00:43,480 --> 01:00:48,080
Speaker 1: you know, you can't. You gotta have significance. Um. Yeah,

1019
01:00:48,240 --> 01:00:50,720
Speaker 1: not that, like you know, Steven and Steve West aren't talented.

1020
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna like those guys are great, but like,

1021
01:00:53,240 --> 01:00:56,680
Speaker 1: in fact, the fact that they're able to like throw, improvise, um,

1022
01:00:57,160 --> 01:01:01,959
Speaker 1: something like that's pretty cool. So I remember being really

1023
01:01:02,040 --> 01:01:06,959
Speaker 1: really happy that Steve West, who had never really been used,

1024
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: um in payment outside of just playing drums, um, that

1025
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:17,480
Speaker 1: he was but he sort of fit fantastically on that recording.

1026
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,600
Speaker 1: So I sort of loved that about no Marketings. I

1027
01:01:19,640 --> 01:01:22,960
Speaker 1: love hearing him in there. All right, Well, thanks Bob.

1028
01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:27,000
Speaker 1: I appreciate your telling us these stories, and um, I'm

1029
01:01:27,000 --> 01:01:29,080
Speaker 1: gonna think of about a hundred more reasons to have

1030
01:01:29,200 --> 01:01:31,720
Speaker 1: you on in the future. Yeah, anytime, all right, man,

1031
01:01:31,760 --> 01:01:38,240
Speaker 1: thanks a lot for more on this, and thousands of

1032
01:01:38,320 --> 01:01:40,560
Speaker 1: other topics because it how stuff works. Dot com