WEBVTT - Widows with Michael-Michelle Pratt 0:00:00.960 --> 0:00:04.560 On the Doodcast, the questions asked if movies have women 0:00:04.680 --> 0:00:07.960 in them, are all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands 0:00:08.039 --> 0:00:12.399 or do they have individualism? The patriarchy? Zef and best 0:00:12.800 --> 0:00:17.360 start changing it with the beck Del Cast. Hey, Jamie, 0:00:18.000 --> 0:00:24.560 Hey Caitlin, you know how our husbands died in a 0:00:24.920 --> 0:00:30.520 botched podcast episode? Or did they? Well we don't know 0:00:30.680 --> 0:00:35.040 just yet, but let's assume that they did. Okay, okay, 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:39.880 do you want to maybe start our own podcast together? Wow? 0:00:40.120 --> 0:00:43.120 But but not because we want our own podcast to 0:00:43.159 --> 0:00:46.840 sort of like finish their unfinished podcast business. Right, we're 0:00:46.880 --> 0:00:50.800 finishing their podcast. We're finishing their last podcast episode there, 0:00:51.840 --> 0:00:54.760 and we have some people after us that if we 0:00:54.840 --> 0:01:03.080 don't finish their podcast, they're gonna kill us. Sophie. If 0:01:03.080 --> 0:01:06.440 we don't finish the podcast, she finds us and she 0:01:06.640 --> 0:01:12.240 hunts us. But if we do successfully finish it, we're 0:01:12.240 --> 0:01:15.960 going to be so rich. Oh well, obviously all podcasters 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:21.960 are extremely rich. Well, I feel pretty good about that intro. 0:01:22.280 --> 0:01:24.720 I feel I thank you. I hope that I hope 0:01:24.760 --> 0:01:26.640 everyone had a great time listening to it, because I 0:01:26.640 --> 0:01:30.559 had a great time participating. Yeah, you're welcome, everybody. Hello, 0:01:30.600 --> 0:01:34.399 and welcome to very diplomatic Welcome to the Bechdel coust 0:01:34.440 --> 0:01:37.160 My name is Caitlin Darante. My name is Jamie Loftus, 0:01:37.160 --> 0:01:40.880 And this is our podcast about ruining movies that you 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:45.440 previously really enjoyed using an intersectional feminist lance, or in 0:01:45.480 --> 0:01:50.480 some cases, celebrating pretty good movies. That's true. I guess 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:52.200 that that would have been a more appropriate setup for 0:01:52.240 --> 0:01:55.880 this particular episode. But yeah, this is uh, this is 0:01:55.960 --> 0:01:58.280 this is our damn podcast. You know, if you're if 0:01:58.320 --> 0:02:01.480 you're just getting here, welcome, if you've been here for 0:02:01.520 --> 0:02:05.160 a while, kick your feet up, baby, get comfortable. Because 0:02:05.160 --> 0:02:09.160 it's the Widows episode. We've gotten a lot of requests 0:02:09.200 --> 0:02:10.800 for I feel like we've been getting requests for this 0:02:10.880 --> 0:02:15.440 episode since the movie came out almost three years ago now, 0:02:16.320 --> 0:02:19.640 so it's been a long time coming and I'm so 0:02:20.040 --> 0:02:24.080 excited to cover it. Same but hold on, what is 0:02:24.080 --> 0:02:31.440 our podcast? Oh gee whiz. It's an examination of film 0:02:31.480 --> 0:02:36.120 through an intersectional feminist lens, right where we use the 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:41.040 Bechtel test simply as a jumping off point to initiate 0:02:41.120 --> 0:02:44.400 a larger conversation. And the Bechtel test, of course, is 0:02:44.400 --> 0:02:48.960 a media metric created by queer cartoonist Alison Bechtel, sometimes 0:02:49.040 --> 0:02:53.560 called the Bechtel Wallace test that requires our variation on 0:02:53.600 --> 0:02:56.959 the test is that two people of any marginalized gender 0:02:57.919 --> 0:03:00.959 have to have names, they must speak to each other, 0:03:01.280 --> 0:03:04.200 and their conversation has to be about something other than 0:03:04.240 --> 0:03:10.600 a man. Ideally it is a meaningful, plot relevant conversation, 0:03:11.360 --> 0:03:16.000 but if it's a two line exchange, we will consider it. 0:03:16.480 --> 0:03:19.000 We go case by case. I don't think it's a 0:03:19.120 --> 0:03:23.160 huge issue for this particular movie, but we've we've had 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:25.640 to really get in the weeds in the past, Caitlin. 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:27.880 I was realizing the other day that we've been on 0:03:27.919 --> 0:03:31.959 this podcast longer than we were in high school. WHOA 0:03:32.440 --> 0:03:35.800 how wild? And I feel like I've learned way more same. 0:03:36.000 --> 0:03:38.200 So we're like I did in high school. We're like 0:03:38.280 --> 0:03:41.280 super seniors because this is our fifth year of doing 0:03:41.400 --> 0:03:44.560 the podcast. Yeah, with no end in sight, we're never 0:03:44.600 --> 0:03:51.800 going to graduate. Uh fine, by me, Let's get our 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:55.280 guests in here, shall we. Let's do it. She is 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:58.680 a freelance journalist. She's had work published in Harper's Bazaar. 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:02.680 She's also a film student and aspiring filmmaker. It's Michael 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:06.360 Michelle Pratt. Hello and welcome, holcome, Hi, thank you for 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.839 having me. Know I'm a huge fan, and I'm really 0:04:08.880 --> 0:04:11.960 excited h to be here, and I like, I love 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:15.960 this movie. So I'm very excited. We're so happy to 0:04:15.960 --> 0:04:20.640 have you. We're so psyched. Uh So we're covering Widows. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:26.039 It's a movie directed by Steve McQueen, screenplay by Steve 0:04:26.160 --> 0:04:35.120 McQueen and Jillian's God damn it, I am a misogynist, 0:04:35.160 --> 0:04:39.239 which is why I didn't double check her name before. 0:04:39.720 --> 0:04:44.360 But either way, uh so, so Michael Michelle to get 0:04:44.440 --> 0:04:49.080 stuff started. What is your history with this movie? Yeah, 0:04:49.080 --> 0:04:52.480 so I wanted to go see in theaters. Uh. I 0:04:52.520 --> 0:04:55.360 think it might have been I don't know it was 0:04:55.520 --> 0:04:57.720 the opening weekend or the weekend after opening weekend. By 0:04:57.800 --> 0:05:00.880 I thought with my mom, Um, I I like, I like, 0:05:01.480 --> 0:05:03.800 I really like the late night shoving because I love 0:05:03.920 --> 0:05:06.839 the trailer. Um, I think why all Davis is just 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.720 you know her existence, I just all the reformances if 0:05:10.760 --> 0:05:14.360 for everything, I love her. Um, I'm not a huge 0:05:14.400 --> 0:05:15.760 told me to Slafe you have, but I love everything 0:05:15.800 --> 0:05:18.440 else take me. I think he's also really brilliant. Um. 0:05:18.480 --> 0:05:20.479 And so I was just like I was like really 0:05:20.520 --> 0:05:22.720 psyched for this and so I love the trailer and 0:05:22.760 --> 0:05:25.640 when to go see it? Um and then it was 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:27.279 really mad. It was like me and my mom and 0:05:27.320 --> 0:05:29.680 like one one other guy in the corner. I was like, 0:05:29.760 --> 0:05:32.719 this is oh no one else was there. No, it 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:35.080 was like three of us just at this like awkwards 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:39.520 like eleven Black Night screening, and I was like, wow, okay. 0:05:40.320 --> 0:05:43.360 I was like, I was like, what did your mom think? 0:05:44.000 --> 0:05:47.640 So she she liked it, but she didn't like the 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:51.840 ending because she my mom hated like in being its endings. 0:05:51.839 --> 0:05:53.599 And I was like, that's the fun of it because 0:05:53.600 --> 0:05:56.200 they're like maybe they've become friends who don't know and 0:05:56.200 --> 0:05:59.520 they've been like this whole this really tumultuous, traumatic future, 0:05:59.520 --> 0:06:01.479 but they're kind a friend and it's cool and I 0:06:01.520 --> 0:06:03.600 love it being the new films. That's like my thing. 0:06:04.160 --> 0:06:06.000 But she was like, but she was like I wanted 0:06:06.040 --> 0:06:09.000 like more closure of but that wasn't the point. But fine. 0:06:09.040 --> 0:06:11.960 I was like you. I was like, you know, fine, 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.279 but yeah, she wouldn't and she wasn't really a fan 0:06:15.360 --> 0:06:17.960 of the of the ending. But other than that, I 0:06:18.040 --> 0:06:21.359 think I think she liked this. Yeah, nice Jamie, what 0:06:21.400 --> 0:06:25.120 about you what's your relationship with the movie. Not too much. 0:06:25.240 --> 0:06:29.400 I had seen it. I think I hadn't. I hadn't 0:06:29.400 --> 0:06:34.240 seen it until Quarantine last year, but I had a 0:06:34.279 --> 0:06:37.120 copy of it at my house. My my boyfriend's a 0:06:37.160 --> 0:06:39.920 huge fan of this movie. He seen it like ten times. 0:06:41.240 --> 0:06:43.680 It's like one of his comfort movies or even though 0:06:43.680 --> 0:06:45.520 it's like not even that old of a movie, so 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:47.080 he was like, you're going to sit down with me 0:06:47.120 --> 0:06:50.920 and watch it. Not very comforting either, No, it's kind 0:06:50.960 --> 0:06:54.200 of stressful, but I have I don't know, I feel 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:56.560 like everyone has a stressful comfort movie where it's like 0:06:56.640 --> 0:06:59.840 I can't exactly put my finger on why this would 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:02.440 bring me peace, but for some reason it does. I mean, 0:07:02.480 --> 0:07:05.440 Titanic is definitely one of my comfort movies and also 0:07:05.880 --> 0:07:10.200 not comforting at all and bodies are hitting the floor 0:07:11.200 --> 0:07:15.120 the whole time. Um, but yes, I I just saw 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:17.840 it last year and now I think I've seen it 0:07:18.120 --> 0:07:22.040 three times. And it's so it's already so interesting where 0:07:22.240 --> 0:07:24.200 this movie is three years old, but I feel like 0:07:24.360 --> 0:07:26.760 already having a little bit of distance from it. It's 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.440 really interesting to watch back because this was like immediately 0:07:30.480 --> 0:07:33.720 after the Me Too movement started. Movie and I feel 0:07:33.720 --> 0:07:36.440 like that is very present and how it was marketed 0:07:37.200 --> 0:07:40.440 and already just with a couple of years of distance 0:07:40.480 --> 0:07:43.640 from it. I really enjoyed the movie. It's like such 0:07:43.640 --> 0:07:46.480 a blast. The cast is like, I can't think of 0:07:46.520 --> 0:07:51.000 a more fun cast for a movie. And yeah, I 0:07:51.000 --> 0:07:53.239 don't know, I feel like there's so much to talk about. 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:58.920 It's uh, it's it's a goddamn romp. Uh. What about you, Caitlin, 0:07:58.960 --> 0:08:02.520 what's your history with this? I didn't see it in theaters, 0:08:02.720 --> 0:08:06.720 but I saw it a few months later. You know, 0:08:06.760 --> 0:08:08.920 I remember there being quite a bit of buzz about it, 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.000 and it won some awards, I think some BAFTA's, I believe. 0:08:13.560 --> 0:08:16.840 Um so I this is a very British movie for 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.800 a movie that takes place in Chicago. I did not 0:08:20.880 --> 0:08:26.040 know Steve McQueen was English until I really started reading 0:08:26.040 --> 0:08:29.560 some stuff about him. Yeah. I don't know how I 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:31.800 missed that detail, but I did make the kind of 0:08:31.840 --> 0:08:36.040 stray observation that there are a lot of British and 0:08:36.120 --> 0:08:40.160 Irish actors in this movie playing Americans, between Colin Farrell, 0:08:40.520 --> 0:08:44.000 Liam Neeson and Daniel Coloya. Yeah, like, once you know 0:08:44.120 --> 0:08:47.120 Steve McQueen is from the UK. You're like, oh, yeah, 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.079 that's why half of this cast is very much not 0:08:50.240 --> 0:08:56.000 from Chicago. Yeah. Um so, anyway, I saw the movie. 0:08:56.320 --> 0:09:01.400 I love a good heist movie, and Cynthia Arriva too 0:09:01.520 --> 0:09:04.679 is British, I believe. Sorry, oh she Okay, I got it. 0:09:05.200 --> 0:09:08.199 But yeah, I thought it was a really well crafted 0:09:08.320 --> 0:09:11.400 movie and I was excited to watch it again and 0:09:11.880 --> 0:09:15.760 to discuss it right here on this EPISODEEP. Should we 0:09:16.120 --> 0:09:22.000 get into the recamp, let's do it. Okay. So the 0:09:22.040 --> 0:09:26.599 movie begins with a robbery that is taking place by 0:09:26.640 --> 0:09:31.120 a team of four men. We also cut to like 0:09:31.200 --> 0:09:35.080 quick glimpses of their home lives and we see them 0:09:35.120 --> 0:09:41.920 with their wives, their wives, their wives. The ringleader is 0:09:42.120 --> 0:09:46.319 Harry Rawlings. That's Liam Neeson. He is married to Veronica 0:09:46.400 --> 0:09:52.320 Rawlings that is Viola Davis. The other other wives are 0:09:53.679 --> 0:09:55.520 This is gonna be very hard for me to not 0:09:55.720 --> 0:09:58.400 constantly do this. I mean that's literally the premise of 0:09:58.400 --> 0:10:05.880 the movie. Like, I've their wives their dead husband's exactly 0:10:06.960 --> 0:10:12.280 every first seconds, just they have to remind they're dead, right. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:17.760 Uh So the other wives are Linda that's Michelle Rodriguez, 0:10:18.120 --> 0:10:22.480 Alice that's Elizabeth DEBICKI, and I think of her as 0:10:23.120 --> 0:10:27.559 Mrs Tennant. That's the only other thing I know her from. 0:10:27.600 --> 0:10:30.600 She's really tall. She's really tall, and she was in Tennant. 0:10:31.040 --> 0:10:34.640 I did not realize that was her, Yes, Tenant. I mean, 0:10:34.840 --> 0:10:37.120 I feel like I blacked it all out, but she 0:10:37.280 --> 0:10:40.720 was definitely in it. Good to know. I didn't see that. 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:43.839 How did that turn out? I know? Assaulted? How did 0:10:43.880 --> 0:10:46.880 that know? How did that go? I don't know. I 0:10:46.880 --> 0:10:49.440 feel like I would have had more fun if, like 0:10:49.679 --> 0:10:52.559 if they had just like held onto it and released 0:10:52.559 --> 0:10:55.800 it when people could go to theaters. But because it 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:57.760 was like I watched it at a drive in and 0:10:57.800 --> 0:11:00.360 I had no idea what was happening. And I tried 0:11:00.400 --> 0:11:03.240 to watch it on streaming and I was like, I 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:09.760 still have no idea, Like, I don't know. I saw 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.600 it in the comfort of my own home. Granted it 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:14.520 was in the middle of the night and I was 0:11:14.679 --> 0:11:17.640 tired and falling asleep, but I didn't follow the story 0:11:17.679 --> 0:11:20.480 at all. I think the world building is really confusing 0:11:20.559 --> 0:11:23.120 and like not set up very well. But again, it 0:11:23.160 --> 0:11:27.440 could have been that I was asleep, if hard Christopher Nolan, Okay, 0:11:27.520 --> 0:11:30.800 here's my here's my hot take if Christopher Nolan is 0:11:30.840 --> 0:11:34.439 so interested in time, why he has he wasted so 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:38.400 much of mine? And then imagine me dunking a basketball 0:11:39.880 --> 0:11:42.280 and then not not just dropping a microphone, but like 0:11:42.480 --> 0:11:49.000 throwing it across the room. The microphone explodes. Um, okay, 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.280 so we've met the other wife, so it's Linda Ellis 0:11:53.320 --> 0:11:57.680 and then Amanda, also played by Carry Coon. Then we 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:03.600 see the robbery go all wrong. The men are shot 0:12:03.880 --> 0:12:08.760 and killed and also exploded by cops. Yeah. I kind 0:12:08.800 --> 0:12:12.840 of appreciated that they triple killed the guy. I was like, Okay, 0:12:12.920 --> 0:12:18.480 so there's or at least I thought spoiler ahead, but 0:12:18.600 --> 0:12:22.240 I was like, Wow, these guys are super dead. They 0:12:22.320 --> 0:12:26.400 couldn't be deader just and they keep saying over and 0:12:26.440 --> 0:12:29.520 over like they're just ye, just shot everywhere, just they 0:12:29.520 --> 0:12:32.360 were on the ground. They keep reiterating to let you know, 0:12:32.440 --> 0:12:35.880 like they're super dead, like they have to keep reiterating 0:12:35.880 --> 0:12:39.000 it could not be less alive, to the point that 0:12:39.080 --> 0:12:43.040 like later later when it's like the the big Gillian 0:12:43.160 --> 0:12:47.680 Flynn style to whist comes up, you're kind of like, oh, 0:12:47.760 --> 0:12:50.800 I guess that they like almost lay it on too 0:12:50.840 --> 0:12:54.600 thick that they're super dead. You're like, oh, okay, I 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:56.679 fell for I totally fell for it. The first time 0:12:56.720 --> 0:12:58.440 I saw this movie, I did not see the twist 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.319 coming at all. There Oh, no, me neither. I was 0:13:02.360 --> 0:13:08.319 like what I was, I can't excuse me. I was like, 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:13.240 I was in the doorway. What right? Yeah, it was 0:13:13.280 --> 0:13:15.360 a it was a solid twist. I feel like there's 0:13:15.480 --> 0:13:19.280 so many twists, are so easy to predict. But gone 0:13:19.320 --> 0:13:23.720 girl got us, Baby, she got us again, Gone girl, 0:13:23.760 --> 0:13:32.240 Gillian gets us again. Wow, the alliteration is astounding, incredible. Headline. Okay, 0:13:32.360 --> 0:13:36.079 so the men are shot and killed and exploded, meaning 0:13:36.600 --> 0:13:43.000 the wives are now widows. That's the name of the movie. Okay. 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:47.839 Then we meet Jack Mulligan that's Colin Farrell, and we 0:13:47.880 --> 0:13:52.040 meet Jamal Manning that's Brian Tyree Henry. They are both 0:13:52.200 --> 0:13:59.280 politicians running for alderman of Chicago's eighteenth ward. I had 0:13:59.320 --> 0:14:02.320 to look up what that was, and now I know 0:14:02.400 --> 0:14:05.800 it's basically like a city council member. Right. Yeah, I 0:14:05.840 --> 0:14:07.960 never I never figured out with the actual office. What's 0:14:08.120 --> 0:14:09.800 Every time I watched it, I'm like, you know, it's 0:14:09.840 --> 0:14:12.120 some kind of political thing. I don't know exactly, but 0:14:12.200 --> 0:14:15.840 I'm just gonna I'm just like, something this up. You know, 0:14:16.040 --> 0:14:18.920 there's some kind of office going on. I had to 0:14:18.960 --> 0:14:21.800 read that elsewhere. I did not figure this out on 0:14:21.840 --> 0:14:23.480 my own. I kind of wish they told you in 0:14:23.520 --> 0:14:26.000 the movie because it's like, yeah, because it's not clear. 0:14:26.160 --> 0:14:29.480 It is just like a city council and position. I 0:14:29.760 --> 0:14:32.600 felt so I when I realized that both of their 0:14:32.640 --> 0:14:37.120 initials were j M, I was like, oh, wow, makes 0:14:37.320 --> 0:14:41.720 you think I got really excited. What does it mean? 0:14:41.840 --> 0:14:43.760 I don't know, but I was just like that has 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:47.960 to be on purpose, right, Yeah, not not sure. So 0:14:48.000 --> 0:14:53.480 they're running for Chicago's eighteenth Ward, which is a predominantly 0:14:53.480 --> 0:14:57.560 low income black neighborhood. Jack is trying to get Jamal 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:01.880 to drop out of the race, but he refuses. We 0:15:01.920 --> 0:15:06.320 also meet Jamal's brother, Ja Tem that's Daniel Coloya, and 0:15:06.560 --> 0:15:10.680 we at some point around this time also meet Jack 0:15:10.760 --> 0:15:16.240 Mulligan's father, Tom Mulligan, who is a career politician, full 0:15:16.320 --> 0:15:21.400 on evil Robert. So we meet these politicians and then 0:15:21.720 --> 0:15:24.880 some of their family. Right, So the Mulligan's are this 0:15:25.320 --> 0:15:30.360 almost like Chicago Kennedy's, like just clinging to power but 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:34.520 don't actually care about anybody. Sort of family and then 0:15:35.200 --> 0:15:39.000 Jamal is kind of like a I heard Steve McQueen 0:15:39.040 --> 0:15:41.960 in an interview be like he's my Michael Corleone, and 0:15:42.000 --> 0:15:44.280 I was like, oh, that kind of does make sense. 0:15:44.320 --> 0:15:48.800 Like he's he's like a Godfather style guy, and it's 0:15:48.800 --> 0:15:52.720 like the I don't know, Daniel Klliya, it seems like 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:56.480 is having so much fun in this movie, Like he's 0:15:56.520 --> 0:16:03.160 having a blast his care he's scary. Yeah, yeah, what's 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:06.280 he made to be? He's so scart, He's so scart 0:16:07.120 --> 0:16:09.880 with such little dialogue and it's all like the Pasha 0:16:09.920 --> 0:16:12.400 and the shoulders and and you're so frightened. But when 0:16:12.440 --> 0:16:14.880 he's doing all of his in commanding such space and 0:16:15.000 --> 0:16:17.280 was staying that's a little I'm just every time I watched, 0:16:17.320 --> 0:16:19.520 I'm like, but and you can tell he's enjoying all 0:16:19.560 --> 0:16:23.520 of it, and it's just it's a great performance. And 0:16:23.560 --> 0:16:26.520 he's such a talented actor. He's so good and it's 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.600 so fun to watch actors having fun, especially in sequences 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:33.800 like I mean, so many of his sequences are and 0:16:33.880 --> 0:16:38.040 like mob movies are like has never really been my genre. 0:16:38.240 --> 0:16:40.840 But it's like when someone is like, you know, Daniel 0:16:40.960 --> 0:16:42.880 Khalia comes in the room. You're like, oh, he's going 0:16:42.920 --> 0:16:45.800 to kill someone in a way that's really interesting to watch, 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:49.280 and it keeps happening. It's oh my god when he 0:16:49.360 --> 0:16:52.080 kills the guy, and then he watches football when he 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:55.760 kills the guy while he's singing You're wild love it 0:16:56.880 --> 0:17:01.560 um okay. So then we learn that the botched robbery 0:17:01.600 --> 0:17:05.480 that we saw was Harry Rawlings and his team stealing 0:17:05.520 --> 0:17:09.680 two million dollars from Jamal Manning, and that that money 0:17:09.720 --> 0:17:14.280 burnt up in the explosion. Then we cut back to 0:17:15.000 --> 0:17:19.680 the wives, the widows of the robbers morning their late husbands. 0:17:20.200 --> 0:17:25.879 We meet Bash, that's Harry's driver. He gives Veronica a 0:17:26.080 --> 0:17:28.919 key to a safety deposit box. This is something that 0:17:28.960 --> 0:17:32.840 Harry wanted her to have if anything ever happened to him. 0:17:32.960 --> 0:17:38.840 Then Jamal approaches Veronica. He knows that her husband stole 0:17:38.920 --> 0:17:41.680 from him and he wants the two million dollars back. 0:17:42.240 --> 0:17:45.119 He says that she has a month to liquidate her 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:48.800 assets and get that money to him. We've also, by 0:17:48.800 --> 0:17:52.480 this point seen Jetam murder a couple of people, so 0:17:52.800 --> 0:17:56.480 we know that these guys mean business and that the 0:17:56.560 --> 0:18:01.800 stakes are very high for Veronica. She then goes to 0:18:02.000 --> 0:18:05.880 the safety deposit box and inside is a notebook that 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:11.200 details Harry's next job, a five million dollar robbery. Um 0:18:11.280 --> 0:18:16.840 So then Veronica contact the other widows. She has the 0:18:16.880 --> 0:18:20.280 idea to work with them to pull off this five 0:18:20.280 --> 0:18:22.840 million dollar heist so that she can take some of 0:18:22.880 --> 0:18:25.160 that money and pay Jamal back and then they will 0:18:25.200 --> 0:18:29.800 split the rest. So Linda and Alice show up, but 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:36.320 the other widow, Amanda, does not, so Veronica convinces Linda 0:18:36.520 --> 0:18:40.320 and Alice to do this. It's established that they are 0:18:40.840 --> 0:18:44.720 both struggling financially after the death of their husband's right, 0:18:44.840 --> 0:18:49.679 they're not like as in immediate danger as Veronica. It 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:52.240 doesn't seem like which was one of my story issues 0:18:52.240 --> 0:18:55.760 where I'm like, hmmm, if I were Michelle Rodriguez, i 0:18:55.880 --> 0:19:01.159 might say no, thank you, I'm not interested. But I 0:19:01.240 --> 0:19:02.639 was like the all time, I can't think. I was like, 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:04.919 does that seem like as pressing for you? So I 0:19:04.960 --> 0:19:07.440 was like, I can't, Like if I could like not that, 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:12.720 I'd be like, you know, good financial security. I feel 0:19:12.760 --> 0:19:14.959 like that like that is enough to like get you 0:19:15.000 --> 0:19:17.440 into the premise and all of that. But but yeah, 0:19:17.960 --> 0:19:19.639 as the movie was going on, and it was like 0:19:19.800 --> 0:19:22.960 Oh my god, all these women cut Like. I know 0:19:23.000 --> 0:19:25.760 that they're not going to die because movie, but like 0:19:26.000 --> 0:19:28.639 the stakes are extremely high for what kind of is 0:19:28.640 --> 0:19:31.720 Like Michelle Rodriguez is like, well, I don't want to 0:19:31.720 --> 0:19:35.439 say I didn't do this because feminism. I was like, 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:41.360 but then your kids wouldn't have a parent. She does 0:19:41.440 --> 0:19:44.520 have children, which you would think maybe she'd be like, 0:19:44.840 --> 0:19:49.240 I can't get into this very risky, dangerous heist because 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:51.960 I might die. But I did buy that that she 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.280 and Alice were motivated enough to do it because of 0:19:55.520 --> 0:20:00.040 their very precurious financial situation, So I don't know, know 0:20:00.240 --> 0:20:03.520 that makes sense. Yeah, So anyway, the three of them 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:08.200 get to work on planning the heist. They need guns, 0:20:08.280 --> 0:20:11.879 they need a van, They have a blueprint, but they 0:20:11.920 --> 0:20:16.000 don't know where this house is, so there's a lot 0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:18.239 that they have to acquire and figure out. So they 0:20:18.320 --> 0:20:22.240 get to work on that. Meanwhile, the Manning's intimidate some 0:20:22.280 --> 0:20:26.320 people that Veronica knows, basically trying to figure out what 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:31.680 she's up to. They kill bash her driver. So now 0:20:31.720 --> 0:20:34.240 they have to find the football murder scene. That's a 0:20:34.280 --> 0:20:37.360 football murder scene. I think that was my favorite. Daniel 0:20:37.440 --> 0:20:41.679 Kolea can't be murder scene. I have a like a 0:20:41.720 --> 0:20:43.639 whole kind of spiel about that, which we'll get to. 0:20:43.840 --> 0:20:47.720 But um, yeah, interesting choices were made. Um. But the 0:20:47.760 --> 0:20:51.720 bottom line is that they now have to find a 0:20:51.800 --> 0:20:56.320 new getaway driver, which, um, Jamie you pointed out it's 0:20:56.560 --> 0:21:01.040 Michelle Rodriguez. Yeah, so take it away. I was laughing 0:21:01.080 --> 0:21:03.520 my head off when Michelle Rodriguez enters the scene and 0:21:03.600 --> 0:21:05.840 she's like, we need a new driver. I was like, 0:21:06.560 --> 0:21:08.439 speaking of people who would know a thing or two 0:21:08.440 --> 0:21:12.800 about driving, Mrs Fast and Furious, I was, And then 0:21:12.840 --> 0:21:15.200 they have her character. I feel like they like that 0:21:15.240 --> 0:21:18.399 had to have been intentional that whenever someone is like 0:21:18.440 --> 0:21:21.639 we need a driver, it's only Michelle Rodriguez being like 0:21:21.840 --> 0:21:26.840 we needed drivers and cars. I'm like, yeah, exactly. We 0:21:26.920 --> 0:21:31.320 love an Internet to neverdic universe. She is car Cannon. 0:21:32.440 --> 0:21:35.920 They need a crossover film to bring these two worlds together. 0:21:36.720 --> 0:21:39.560 The Widows would fit right in in the Fast and 0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:44.840 Furious Expanded Universe. I feel I think Rodriguez Universe, Yeah, 0:21:45.880 --> 0:21:49.280 that could be a thing. Okay, So then we get 0:21:49.400 --> 0:21:54.040 a reveal that Harry Rawlings is still alive. He had 0:21:54.080 --> 0:21:57.240 faked his death and it turns out that he's been 0:21:57.280 --> 0:22:02.000 having an affair with Amanda, the widow who hasn't been 0:22:02.000 --> 0:22:06.119 showing up, and he is sticking around for now to 0:22:06.400 --> 0:22:11.000 I think, take the money that Veronica is planning to 0:22:11.160 --> 0:22:15.639 steal that? What's that? I think? So that was a 0:22:15.680 --> 0:22:18.760 little camp like where there were that twist was I 0:22:18.840 --> 0:22:21.320 was very impressed with the twist. I just didn't see 0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:23.360 it coming. But then I was like, wait a second, 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:28.840 huh where like Jack Mulligan is involved there on a boat, 0:22:29.160 --> 0:22:33.119 Carrie Coon's involved, You're like, wait a second, what's the 0:22:33.280 --> 0:22:35.840 end goal here? And then and then it didn't really 0:22:35.880 --> 0:22:39.879 become story relevant. I was like at first when I 0:22:39.960 --> 0:22:42.679 was like okay, I was like I was surprised. But 0:22:42.720 --> 0:22:44.760 then they after the boat and I was like, how 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:47.119 no one so no one's aware of this? How is 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.239 how was he able to get him just? I was like, 0:22:51.520 --> 0:22:52.680 that was right. I was like, this is a little 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:58.160 distant now. Yeah, I also am unclear about So the 0:22:58.240 --> 0:23:02.960 initial job that goes wrong is them stealing from Jamal 0:23:03.000 --> 0:23:07.320 Manning like on behalf of Jack Mulligan, But then Harry's 0:23:07.359 --> 0:23:11.680 next job was stealing from Jack Mulligan on behalf of 0:23:11.960 --> 0:23:15.200 someone I don't know. Yeah, I feel like Harry. Harry 0:23:15.280 --> 0:23:17.960 doesn't vote, Like I feel like he doesn't care who 0:23:17.960 --> 0:23:22.640 wins or who loses. But yeah, like I don't know. 0:23:23.040 --> 0:23:25.680 Maybe a listener will like point something out and there's 0:23:25.720 --> 0:23:30.240 something very clear that I wasn't seeing, but involving the politicians. 0:23:30.280 --> 0:23:32.879 On top of like that, I just felt like a 0:23:32.960 --> 0:23:34.959 hat on top of a hat, and I got confused. 0:23:35.080 --> 0:23:38.040 And then again it's like, all I guess technically, all 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:41.160 you really need to know is that Harry is alive 0:23:41.359 --> 0:23:46.000 and he was cheating on Veronica. But it was, Yeah, 0:23:46.000 --> 0:23:50.640 it was a little confusing. We also get a flashback 0:23:50.840 --> 0:23:55.840 where we learn about Harry and Veronica's son Marcus, and 0:23:55.920 --> 0:24:00.280 we learned that he was pulled over and then shot 0:24:00.320 --> 0:24:04.640 to death by cops. We cut back to the President. 0:24:04.720 --> 0:24:09.560 The widows figure out where the blueprints are four a 0:24:09.720 --> 0:24:12.239 K the house that they plan to break into, and 0:24:12.280 --> 0:24:17.960 it turns out to be Jack Mulligan's house. Then Linda A. K. 0:24:18.160 --> 0:24:21.480 Michelle Rodriguez, She's like, we need a driver, and then 0:24:21.480 --> 0:24:25.080 she finds a driver. Well, I mean, who else is 0:24:25.080 --> 0:24:28.399 gonna do it? In Diesel, He's not in the movie. 0:24:30.200 --> 0:24:35.320 She recruits her babysitter Belle played by Cynthia Arrivo to 0:24:36.000 --> 0:24:41.399 be their getaway driver, and she and Veronica scope out 0:24:41.720 --> 0:24:45.800 Jack's house. Um. They do a little reconnaissance type stuff. 0:24:46.520 --> 0:24:49.880 Then it is time for the heist. Is the same 0:24:50.000 --> 0:24:53.679 night as the debate between Jack Mulligan and Jamal Manning. 0:24:54.359 --> 0:24:58.760 The women get to the house, they make their way in, 0:24:58.840 --> 0:25:02.040 they grabbed the five million dollars. Tom Mulligan a k. 0:25:02.280 --> 0:25:07.280 Robert Duval tries to stop them. They shoot him and 0:25:07.359 --> 0:25:09.800 kill him in a death that no one has ever 0:25:09.880 --> 0:25:13.800 cared about less than the entire right. We're like, good ridden, 0:25:13.840 --> 0:25:18.480 You're like I was okay, Yeah, You're like, you raise 0:25:18.560 --> 0:25:21.000 this piece of ship. It's just a fringe benefit to 0:25:21.119 --> 0:25:24.680 this highest is that we killed the worst characters. Yeah. 0:25:24.840 --> 0:25:33.920 She's like, oh yeah, by um. So they kill him, 0:25:33.960 --> 0:25:37.760 but then Alice gets shot in the process. They have 0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:41.640 to kind of scramble to get away to tem hijacks 0:25:41.760 --> 0:25:46.160 their van as they're getting away, but then they follow 0:25:46.240 --> 0:25:48.240 him in another vehicle they crashed into him. They get 0:25:48.240 --> 0:25:52.119 the money back and it seems like they've successfully pulled 0:25:52.119 --> 0:25:55.560 off the heist. They drop Alice off at the er 0:25:56.560 --> 0:26:00.520 and then Veronica goes back to like whatever garage warehouse 0:26:00.560 --> 0:26:05.000 place is their rendezvous point. But who shows up but 0:26:05.240 --> 0:26:10.399 Harry Rawlings and he's there to take the money she stole, 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:15.040 and she's like, you fucking bastard, and he's about to 0:26:15.040 --> 0:26:21.520 shoot her, but she shoots and kills him first. Great moment. Yeah, 0:26:21.640 --> 0:26:25.240 and then we tie up some loose ends with Belle 0:26:25.359 --> 0:26:30.080 and Linda, and then the movie ends with Veronica running 0:26:30.160 --> 0:26:34.760 into Alice, who survived her gunshot. It's implied that it's 0:26:34.960 --> 0:26:38.639 several weeks or months later. They share a little moment 0:26:38.920 --> 0:26:44.600 where Veronica is like, how are you doing? Cinema? And 0:26:44.640 --> 0:26:47.520 also Alice has learned to drive at that point, because 0:26:47.800 --> 0:26:50.240 we learned earlier in the movie that she didn't know 0:26:50.280 --> 0:26:52.320 how to drive, But then we see her getting into 0:26:52.359 --> 0:26:53.919 the driver's seat of a car, so it's like, I 0:26:53.920 --> 0:26:57.040 guess Alice learned to drive. Good for her full arc 0:26:57.600 --> 0:27:01.320 of an amazing arc. That's the story. So let's take 0:27:01.320 --> 0:27:03.080 a quick break and then we will come right back 0:27:03.119 --> 0:27:15.480 to discuss. And we're back. Where shall we start. I 0:27:15.520 --> 0:27:17.760 kind of want to get I'm tempted to get the 0:27:17.800 --> 0:27:20.120 stuff that we didn't like out of the way first, 0:27:20.200 --> 0:27:23.480 or the more critical elements and then we can kind 0:27:23.480 --> 0:27:27.600 of move into the stuff that was fine. Can I start, yes, 0:27:27.720 --> 0:27:30.480 please go ahead, I have a gripe. I think it's 0:27:30.480 --> 0:27:33.600 the second act where Michelarity gets character of Linda. She's 0:27:33.680 --> 0:27:36.600 she's going she's going to go and she's kind of um, 0:27:36.840 --> 0:27:39.399 she's going to go visit the man to go to 0:27:39.600 --> 0:27:44.840 go steal the the prince kind of she's so she's 0:27:44.880 --> 0:27:48.240 pretending basically, UMA know this man's wife, and then he 0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:49.960 kind of and then he kind of figured out that 0:27:49.960 --> 0:27:53.040 that she doesn't um, and then she kind of reveals, 0:27:53.040 --> 0:27:54.800 you know, that she has lost her husband. And then 0:27:54.840 --> 0:27:57.159 they like odd they like to make out, and I 0:27:57.320 --> 0:28:00.040 was like, how did this? This isn't really this is 0:28:00.040 --> 0:28:02.680 an advanced in the plot. I don't I first said. 0:28:02.800 --> 0:28:05.159 I was like, I was like, oh, she's doing this 0:28:05.359 --> 0:28:07.600 like fake him out to get the blueprint. But then 0:28:07.640 --> 0:28:11.280 I realized, wait, or is it like phase value? And 0:28:11.320 --> 0:28:14.720 they just like awkwardly made out, and then it kind 0:28:14.720 --> 0:28:16.119 of seen out of character because I was like, what 0:28:16.200 --> 0:28:18.199 did she do that? And I was like and I 0:28:18.200 --> 0:28:20.479 was like, how I just didn't do anything going forward? 0:28:20.600 --> 0:28:23.520 So we're just sitting here and this is awkward and 0:28:23.600 --> 0:28:27.240 I was like, this is always so time. I almost 0:28:27.440 --> 0:28:30.879 forgot that that even happened. Yeah, that was an interesting 0:28:31.000 --> 0:28:36.000 moment that I felt like that could have been something 0:28:36.680 --> 0:28:40.400 more exploratory of like grief and all this other stuff, 0:28:40.640 --> 0:28:43.680 but then it just kind of ended up being confusing 0:28:44.000 --> 0:28:47.680 and like whatever. It's it's not like people don't trauma 0:28:47.720 --> 0:28:52.160 bond over certain life events and things get weird sometimes 0:28:52.160 --> 0:28:55.200 like that definitely happens. I'm not opposed to seeing that 0:28:55.240 --> 0:28:57.360 in a movie, but you're totally right, Michael Mitchelle where 0:28:57.360 --> 0:28:59.840 it's like it didn't advance the plot at all, and 0:29:00.000 --> 0:29:01.920 then it to me kind of came off as like 0:29:02.320 --> 0:29:07.480 they were just having Michelle Rodriguez's character like use her 0:29:07.680 --> 0:29:12.840 like womanly Wiles so like advance the plot. And I 0:29:12.880 --> 0:29:15.160 don't know, I feel like, yeah, there there were I 0:29:15.160 --> 0:29:17.400 feel like there were better options there on how to 0:29:17.720 --> 0:29:19.360 or it's like if you're going to make that choice, 0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.400 then like like you're saying, like, have it have more 0:29:22.760 --> 0:29:26.800 consequence and actually explore it versus like just this very 0:29:26.840 --> 0:29:28.520 bizarre I mean, it's like it didn't even come up 0:29:28.520 --> 0:29:33.280 in the summary because it's so kind of like that 0:29:33.360 --> 0:29:35.760 could have end on point, could have happened in so 0:29:35.800 --> 0:29:39.600 many different ways. Yeah. Yeah. Every time I've seen this movie, 0:29:39.920 --> 0:29:43.160 my reaction is always like huh, because then I expected 0:29:43.240 --> 0:29:45.280 seemed to keep going a little bit and then for 0:29:45.360 --> 0:29:48.840 him to be like, okay, here, I'll we kissed, so 0:29:48.880 --> 0:29:51.400 I'll help you out, which also I guess that would 0:29:51.400 --> 0:29:55.200 have weird implications to probably be kind of lazy too, Yeah, 0:29:55.680 --> 0:29:59.960 kind of just bizarre. Yeah, so I guess I'm more 0:30:00.120 --> 0:30:02.760 find that it cut well narratively. It's weird that it 0:30:02.800 --> 0:30:06.080 doesn't go anywhere. But if it was that she was like, well, 0:30:06.200 --> 0:30:10.280 I'm going to seduce, like basically exploit the grief I 0:30:10.320 --> 0:30:13.920 feel about my husband to manipulate and seduce this man, 0:30:14.040 --> 0:30:17.680 like that would also have been weird and probably not great. 0:30:17.720 --> 0:30:19.720 It's like who among us hasn't made out with a 0:30:19.840 --> 0:30:22.880 Rando when they were sad about something. But it was 0:30:22.920 --> 0:30:25.600 just like the way it was introduced was like, yeah, 0:30:25.600 --> 0:30:28.080 I felt that say way, Kaitlin, where you're like huh, 0:30:28.400 --> 0:30:32.400 but then it never comes back, so I don't know shrug. 0:30:32.560 --> 0:30:34.480 One thing that stuck out to me. I had a 0:30:34.520 --> 0:30:38.200 few things with this movie that felt just I don't know, 0:30:38.280 --> 0:30:40.400 and it's like it is nippicky because over all the 0:30:40.400 --> 0:30:44.120 movies super enjoyable. I'm so glad, like I will absolutely 0:30:44.120 --> 0:30:47.200 be watching it again. Um. In terms of like the 0:30:47.200 --> 0:30:51.560 the political side of it, there were some parts of 0:30:51.680 --> 0:30:54.360 the Jack Mulligan jamal Man in conflict that I thought 0:30:54.360 --> 0:30:58.080 were like so well executed and so well done, and 0:30:58.800 --> 0:31:00.960 a lot of it was like in the photography where 0:31:01.000 --> 0:31:06.920 there's that amazing shot where you're watching Jack Mulligan leave 0:31:07.320 --> 0:31:12.240 the eighteenth District and drive to his fucking McMansion talking 0:31:12.280 --> 0:31:16.560 about how little he cares, Like that's so that's brilliant, 0:31:16.760 --> 0:31:19.440 Like that might be that might be my favorite team 0:31:19.440 --> 0:31:22.480 in the movie. I think it's that tracking shot and 0:31:22.520 --> 0:31:24.920 you can't see them and you're just hearing the dialogue 0:31:24.920 --> 0:31:28.520 as they're moving forward. I just I was like, it's brilliant. Yeah, 0:31:28.560 --> 0:31:31.760 And it's like once you realize where that's going, it's amazing. 0:31:31.840 --> 0:31:35.400 And it's like, so you know, obviously like such so 0:31:35.480 --> 0:31:38.240 unfortunately something that happens in local like in local and 0:31:38.360 --> 0:31:42.400 national politics constantly, and I thought it was so well executed. 0:31:42.720 --> 0:31:46.120 I guess the thing that I that kind of chafed 0:31:46.120 --> 0:31:50.640 me with that plotline was I appreciate and I totally 0:31:50.680 --> 0:31:53.480 like how the movie and the script really gets into 0:31:54.160 --> 0:31:57.880 this whatever Kennedy asked, Chicago family that are just like 0:31:58.400 --> 0:32:03.080 these rich white guy that are clinging onto power. And 0:32:03.280 --> 0:32:05.720 I mean the Robert Duval character in some ways is 0:32:05.760 --> 0:32:10.520 like a cartoonist example of of the like extreme lengths 0:32:10.560 --> 0:32:14.760 that these kind of legacy white families what they'll do 0:32:14.840 --> 0:32:17.560 to hold onto power. And I wish that we got 0:32:17.600 --> 0:32:23.120 that same amount of attention to detail with the Mannings, 0:32:23.160 --> 0:32:25.320 because I feel like we got a lot of information 0:32:25.360 --> 0:32:29.920 about the Mulligan's. I felt like you really understood what 0:32:29.960 --> 0:32:34.280 the movie was trying to say about that, like that 0:32:34.400 --> 0:32:37.280 kind of political dynasty, and I wish that there was 0:32:37.440 --> 0:32:40.840 because we spend a lot of time with Jamal Manning 0:32:41.000 --> 0:32:45.520 and with is to Tim to time, I think I 0:32:45.600 --> 0:32:49.440 just kept being like dlue, yeah, but but but with 0:32:49.440 --> 0:32:51.720 with those brothers, But I feel like you don't find 0:32:51.720 --> 0:32:55.000 out as much about them as you do. Like I 0:32:55.320 --> 0:32:57.400 felt like I knew way more about the Mulligan's than 0:32:57.440 --> 0:32:59.120 I did about the Mannings, and I wish that that 0:32:59.200 --> 0:33:02.640 had been more of and even handed plotline because I 0:33:02.680 --> 0:33:05.160 loved I mean, I'm very interested in your thoughts on 0:33:05.240 --> 0:33:08.480 the the murder scenes that kind of are taken out 0:33:08.520 --> 0:33:11.240 because at first I wasn't sure where to fall in it, 0:33:11.280 --> 0:33:14.400 and I went to watch just some interviews with Steve 0:33:14.480 --> 0:33:17.720 McQueen to see like what his kind of motivation was 0:33:17.840 --> 0:33:20.440 with those, and once it became clear that he's like, oh, 0:33:20.520 --> 0:33:24.160 I'm doing like these are Godfather, this is my Godfather scene, 0:33:24.440 --> 0:33:26.920 I was like, Okay, Like once I made that connection, 0:33:27.520 --> 0:33:29.320 it made more sense to me. But I still feel like, 0:33:29.840 --> 0:33:32.320 you know, with The Godfather, you know a shipload about 0:33:32.360 --> 0:33:35.800 that family, and so it's like when those murder scenes 0:33:35.880 --> 0:33:39.520 take place, you thoroughly know who those characters are, what 0:33:39.640 --> 0:33:43.040 their motivations are, and then you see something really fucked up, 0:33:43.080 --> 0:33:45.880 and I feel like the Mannings didn't get that. I 0:33:45.880 --> 0:33:48.600 don't know what what what did y'all think? I felt 0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:51.080 like a lot of the impact of that it's a 0:33:51.080 --> 0:33:53.520 lot has a lot to do with with Daniel's performance, 0:33:53.640 --> 0:33:56.400 but but it's not necessarily because of the writing, and 0:33:56.480 --> 0:33:58.480 so I don't feel like I feel I feel like 0:33:58.520 --> 0:34:00.480 it could have been more impactful if, like you said, 0:34:00.600 --> 0:34:03.360 if you knew, if he knew about their motives, and 0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:06.520 I thought about I feel like after the first scene, 0:34:06.560 --> 0:34:10.640 after we first meet him. When he first meeting Um character, 0:34:10.760 --> 0:34:13.719 you don't he kind of said a little bit beforehand, 0:34:14.000 --> 0:34:17.000 after him Indiana's character Kum talking about his motivation to 0:34:17.080 --> 0:34:19.800 kind out front, But after that, you don't really see 0:34:20.200 --> 0:34:22.640 or hear a lot about about how about how he's 0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:26.439 kind of feeling at the works, prograssing really or really 0:34:26.440 --> 0:34:28.560 like anything about his back story. And so I was 0:34:28.719 --> 0:34:31.239 I was like, visually, that's great, but I don't feel 0:34:31.280 --> 0:34:34.520 as connectical as I could if I knew why that's 0:34:34.600 --> 0:34:38.520 what's happening totally. Yeah. There's a scene pretty early on 0:34:38.760 --> 0:34:42.879 between the two brothers where jattem which, by the way, 0:34:42.920 --> 0:34:45.279 there's a funny joke, where isn't that like French for 0:34:45.520 --> 0:34:47.440 I love you? Yeah? I guess it would be more 0:34:47.440 --> 0:34:52.200 pronounced like Tim. But that's what that's what Jack Mulligan 0:34:52.320 --> 0:34:55.839 thinks Jatima is saying when he's introducing himself, because then 0:34:55.840 --> 0:34:58.960 he says, I love you too. I didn't even pick 0:34:59.080 --> 0:35:03.000 up on that, And then Daniel Killerya is just like 0:35:03.280 --> 0:35:07.200 what but um, anyway, j Tim is talking to his 0:35:07.239 --> 0:35:09.239 brother and he's like, why do you even want to 0:35:09.239 --> 0:35:14.359 get into politics? And then Jamal sites, well, yeah, I mean, 0:35:14.680 --> 0:35:19.840 an alderman makes whatever salary per year and a times like, 0:35:19.840 --> 0:35:22.680 well we make that in a week, implied that like 0:35:22.960 --> 0:35:27.719 they're kind of like criminal activity was way more lucrative. 0:35:28.280 --> 0:35:30.840 And then he's saying, well, yeah, but you stand to 0:35:30.880 --> 0:35:34.480 make a lot more money with different contracts and you know, 0:35:34.560 --> 0:35:37.839 like building developments and blah blah blah this stuff. And 0:35:38.040 --> 0:35:40.560 when that happens, people come after you with cameras and 0:35:40.600 --> 0:35:44.040 microphones versus before when when we were doing what we 0:35:44.040 --> 0:35:46.480 were doing, people were coming after us with guns and 0:35:46.520 --> 0:35:48.800 I'm thirty seven, Like, I don't want that life anymore. 0:35:49.440 --> 0:35:52.799 So it's established that part of Jamala's motivation is he 0:35:52.880 --> 0:35:56.600 kind of like wants to quote unquote straighten out um 0:35:56.760 --> 0:36:00.759 or like you know, live a more virtuous life, I guess, 0:36:00.800 --> 0:36:05.080 which is hilarious to think of as a politician. Um right, 0:36:05.239 --> 0:36:08.280 if you're like, yeah, sure, the city council really doing 0:36:08.320 --> 0:36:11.279 the good work, right, but um, I mean, and that's 0:36:11.320 --> 0:36:14.120 like really interesting insight. And I wish we then got 0:36:14.280 --> 0:36:17.840 more information like that, But as far as I can remember, 0:36:17.880 --> 0:36:21.760 there wasn't much else in the way of that type 0:36:21.760 --> 0:36:25.520 of characterization for the Mannings. No, And I was kind 0:36:25.520 --> 0:36:29.359 of surprised because it's like it is such a rich 0:36:29.719 --> 0:36:32.680 set up and I feel like, especially like Jamal and 0:36:32.760 --> 0:36:37.400 Jettam are such compelling characters and both played by fucking 0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:42.040 unbelievable actors, and then there's not enough backstory given to 0:36:42.120 --> 0:36:44.640 really like, I felt like, bring those characters to have 0:36:44.800 --> 0:36:48.960 the impact that they could have and should have. The 0:36:49.040 --> 0:36:54.760 other main gripe I had with this movie revolves around 0:36:54.760 --> 0:36:58.920 the character of Bobby Welsh. He is the character who 0:36:59.000 --> 0:37:04.239 owns the Bowling Alley. He is a friend slash associate 0:37:04.360 --> 0:37:07.719 of Harry Rawlings. He seems to know about the like 0:37:07.960 --> 0:37:13.360 various robberies that he pulls off. The character uses a wheelchair, 0:37:13.920 --> 0:37:18.360 but the actor Kevin J O'Connor does not, So another 0:37:18.400 --> 0:37:23.160 example of a able bodied actor playing a disabled character. 0:37:24.000 --> 0:37:27.640 Just how disabled at it? Just they exist there there. 0:37:29.760 --> 0:37:32.479 It can't be a little struggle. I just why it's 0:37:32.480 --> 0:37:35.440 not hard, couldn't be easier. They're out there. And then 0:37:35.480 --> 0:37:39.160 the other thing with this character is that we see 0:37:39.239 --> 0:37:43.719 him being brutalized in a way that is very specific 0:37:43.800 --> 0:37:47.880 to the character's disability because he is shoved out of 0:37:47.960 --> 0:37:52.160 his wheelchair. He is then stabbed in the legs several 0:37:52.200 --> 0:37:55.799 times by j Tem because ja Tem knows that he 0:37:55.880 --> 0:37:58.960 can't feel it because he's paralyzed from his waist down. 0:37:59.280 --> 0:38:03.560 It's a very long, drawn out scene, and I guess 0:38:03.600 --> 0:38:06.440 the function of the scene is to just show how 0:38:06.480 --> 0:38:10.919 relentless and dangerous Jettem is. But we already know that 0:38:10.960 --> 0:38:16.120 because we've seen him a people He made yeah, I 0:38:16.200 --> 0:38:18.719 mean he was making those two guys freestyle and then 0:38:18.800 --> 0:38:22.319 killed the mid freestyle, like we know that he is 0:38:22.800 --> 0:38:31.040 d t K. He's down to kill. It felt unnecessarily long, 0:38:31.160 --> 0:38:33.600 and every time I watched it, I have to just 0:38:33.640 --> 0:38:35.959 give it. I'm like, I can't it just it feels 0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:38.879 unnecessarily cool, and I'm like, I'm not I'm not gonna 0:38:38.880 --> 0:38:40.680 sit here and I'm not gonna see her here, and 0:38:40.680 --> 0:38:44.360 and watched this, I can't. Yeah, I can't do it totally. 0:38:44.480 --> 0:38:47.520 Especially it feels I think it might be a trope 0:38:47.560 --> 0:38:52.920 at this point in media, where a disabled character is 0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:59.480 very unnecessarily brutalized. And then I was foreshadowing this earlier, 0:38:59.560 --> 0:39:03.399 but the scene where Jamal comes in and like his 0:39:03.840 --> 0:39:09.960 guys kill bash. Compare this scene with the way that 0:39:10.000 --> 0:39:13.280 the Bobby Welsh character is brutalized to the Bash scene, 0:39:13.560 --> 0:39:17.600 because all the violence in the Bash getting killed scene 0:39:17.760 --> 0:39:21.120 is implied off screen. It happens off screen because then 0:39:21.120 --> 0:39:25.400 you pan over to which attem watching football and you 0:39:25.520 --> 0:39:28.400 only like hear the violence but you don't see it. 0:39:28.520 --> 0:39:31.120 So like just that dichotomy of like we see a 0:39:31.160 --> 0:39:35.360 long scene of a character with a disability being brutalized 0:39:35.600 --> 0:39:39.319 versus in that very specific way, yes, yeah, versus the 0:39:39.360 --> 0:39:43.239 able bodied character that happens off screen, and that just 0:39:43.280 --> 0:39:48.319 felt very unnecessary and gross and didn't like it. I 0:39:48.320 --> 0:39:51.400 think also if it felt like the attack for the 0:39:51.400 --> 0:39:55.080 diity of character felt felt very specific to that disability, 0:39:55.200 --> 0:39:57.440 and then and then to keep showing it over and 0:39:57.480 --> 0:39:59.520 over on camera, it felt like it's kind of taking 0:39:59.520 --> 0:40:02.319 away the dignity from the character as opposed to say, 0:40:02.360 --> 0:40:04.640 a body character and giving him the dignity. I'm not 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.440 having us watch it. I was just like that was 0:40:07.520 --> 0:40:10.920 really unnecessary, right, yeah, And I mean and it's even 0:40:11.200 --> 0:40:13.359 from I mean, I feel like the more you get 0:40:13.400 --> 0:40:16.880 into it is like, even from a story perspective, those 0:40:16.920 --> 0:40:20.760 two choices feel very pointed because you would think Bash 0:40:20.880 --> 0:40:23.680 is a character that we know much better, So the 0:40:23.719 --> 0:40:27.120 impact of seeing him get killed on screen would theoretically 0:40:27.440 --> 0:40:30.759 be greater than watching Bobby, a character we barely know, 0:40:31.560 --> 0:40:34.640 be brutalized for in a much longer scene, like you 0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.399 were both saying, and so it does kind of come 0:40:37.440 --> 0:40:41.960 down to I don't know. I mean, it's I it's 0:40:41.960 --> 0:40:43.439 hard because it's like I don't want to come down 0:40:43.560 --> 0:40:46.000 hard on this movie. But like that choice, You're totally right. 0:40:46.040 --> 0:40:49.840 I mean it's it's very, very pointed, and it doesn't 0:40:49.880 --> 0:40:52.839 even make it. It makes no story sense. There's no 0:40:53.480 --> 0:40:58.600 there's no real argument for any of it to happen. Yeah, 0:40:58.800 --> 0:41:01.720 my last Okay, so this is kind of, I guess 0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:05.520 gets us into what we will probably be talking about 0:41:05.560 --> 0:41:09.759 a lot more, which is the Widows. So let's let's 0:41:09.760 --> 0:41:14.840 get into Widows. I okay, I was genuinely I I 0:41:14.920 --> 0:41:19.120 read um, I watched the whole movie through, was taken 0:41:19.160 --> 0:41:22.920 my little notes and by the end of the movie. 0:41:23.600 --> 0:41:25.400 Let me know if I'm off here from being like 0:41:25.520 --> 0:41:30.640 overly picky, I felt like the widows did not know 0:41:30.760 --> 0:41:33.560 each other well enough. I was not like they weren't 0:41:33.960 --> 0:41:39.640 friends ever. And that is not really a Bechtel Cast 0:41:39.960 --> 0:41:41.920 style criticism. I feel like it's more of a story 0:41:41.960 --> 0:41:45.600 criticism for me where I read a really good piece 0:41:46.200 --> 0:41:50.560 from a Vice writer named Amor Mercer who did kind 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:53.879 of a comparative study between Widows and set it Off, 0:41:54.120 --> 0:41:57.359 a movie that we've covered on the show and is 0:41:57.520 --> 0:42:00.480 so good and it it's, you know, an all female 0:42:00.560 --> 0:42:06.319 highst It's it's incredible and is dealing with some I mean, 0:42:06.440 --> 0:42:10.440 it's definitely not a one to one comparison, but I 0:42:10.480 --> 0:42:12.840 don't know. As I was just reading her kind of 0:42:12.880 --> 0:42:15.480 comparative essay between the two movies, I was like, oh, yeah, 0:42:15.560 --> 0:42:18.000 part of I mean, there's so many things that makes 0:42:18.000 --> 0:42:20.239 Set It Off a compelling movie to watch, but a 0:42:20.320 --> 0:42:24.400 lot of it is like the relationships between the women 0:42:24.680 --> 0:42:29.160 performing the highest and how their relationships grow and change 0:42:29.719 --> 0:42:32.879 over the movie. I felt like it's just like so 0:42:32.960 --> 0:42:35.600 well done and so when as things continue to happen, 0:42:35.640 --> 0:42:38.560 you really feel it. And I didn't quite feel that 0:42:38.680 --> 0:42:42.000 kind of like connection between the widows where they're definitely 0:42:42.000 --> 0:42:45.960 like their relationships develop, but then there were some relationships 0:42:46.000 --> 0:42:48.840 that felt kind of forced to me or like they 0:42:48.840 --> 0:42:51.839 didn't totally make sense or I don't know, I just 0:42:52.800 --> 0:42:55.239 I this is maybe just like a personal taste thing 0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:57.319 but I'm like, I wish that I understood how they 0:42:57.360 --> 0:42:59.200 felt about each other a little more. It felt a 0:42:59.200 --> 0:43:03.279 little vague to me. No, I I feel the same 0:43:03.520 --> 0:43:07.040 way in that. Yeah, I agree that one of the 0:43:07.080 --> 0:43:10.000 most compelling things about Set It Off is the relationship. 0:43:10.080 --> 0:43:13.640 And honestly, any kind of like get the team together 0:43:13.840 --> 0:43:18.000 and pull law job kind of movie, you usually get 0:43:18.040 --> 0:43:24.480 a lot of tension and intrigue and theme and comic 0:43:24.560 --> 0:43:27.560 relief and a lot of the things that like make 0:43:27.600 --> 0:43:31.439 a story great from the relationship between the characters, and 0:43:32.200 --> 0:43:36.600 we obviously see them interact quite a bit, although there 0:43:36.719 --> 0:43:39.560 is an awful lot of screen time dedicated to like 0:43:40.080 --> 0:43:45.279 Jack Mulligan and other characters I don't care about and 0:43:45.360 --> 0:43:48.880 I hate. But I was like, yeah, I would have 0:43:48.920 --> 0:43:54.759 liked to see more interaction between the widows and just 0:43:54.920 --> 0:44:00.640 more screen time dedicated to the way those relationships develop up. 0:44:00.680 --> 0:44:02.560 And yeah, it felt like there was a lot of 0:44:02.600 --> 0:44:05.760 like I mean, and again it's like it's a romp, 0:44:05.840 --> 0:44:07.640 it's a movie, Like I get it, But but there 0:44:07.719 --> 0:44:09.399 was a lot of like, I feel like, the main 0:44:09.480 --> 0:44:11.480 thing you got out of them talking was kind of 0:44:11.600 --> 0:44:16.879 surface level class discussion, which is which is worthwhile and 0:44:16.920 --> 0:44:19.560 I'm glad that it happened, but it sort of just 0:44:19.600 --> 0:44:23.280 felt like some of the only interactions between certain pairs 0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:29.000 in the um in the Widows universe was like, oh, okay, 0:44:29.080 --> 0:44:33.239 so Alice and Linda they're both working class, and so 0:44:33.239 --> 0:44:35.440 they're going to have a three line exchange about how 0:44:35.480 --> 0:44:38.040 they're working class and they feel like Veronica doesn't get it, 0:44:38.280 --> 0:44:41.320 and then you don't really get much more with those characters. 0:44:41.360 --> 0:44:43.920 They just sort of established, like we have this thing 0:44:43.920 --> 0:44:46.880 in common, but then it doesn't really I don't know, 0:44:46.920 --> 0:44:50.000 I just wish that like some of those issues got 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:52.080 more explored, and it felt like some things were like 0:44:52.160 --> 0:44:56.440 stated but then not really followed through on. I don't know. 0:44:57.320 --> 0:45:00.640 I feel like I feel like a lot of the classes, 0:45:00.760 --> 0:45:03.680 I feel like we're discussed more. What's the political storyline? 0:45:03.680 --> 0:45:07.640 I feel like Widows and I was like, oh, I 0:45:07.640 --> 0:45:10.120 thought it was interesting. I like to be able to 0:45:10.200 --> 0:45:12.839 handle both. But I was like, but the primary story 0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:15.239 is the Widow, so why not or why not have 0:45:15.280 --> 0:45:18.680 them converge more. That's a great point. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:45:18.680 --> 0:45:20.760 because it's like I mean, it's not like the characters 0:45:20.760 --> 0:45:24.000 that are established wouldn't be able to like very easily 0:45:24.080 --> 0:45:27.880 have those conversation. But You're totally right. It's like we 0:45:28.040 --> 0:45:32.560 see Jack and Jamal have those discussions more in depth 0:45:32.640 --> 0:45:35.960 than we see some of the widows have those. I 0:45:36.000 --> 0:45:38.720 totally agree with that, and I feel like there were 0:45:39.680 --> 0:45:44.560 I feel like we got to know Veronica and Alice well, 0:45:45.280 --> 0:45:48.680 and then the other two women we did not really 0:45:48.719 --> 0:45:51.400 find very much out about, to the point where it 0:45:51.480 --> 0:45:54.560 was like their arcs weren't didn't feel like they were 0:45:54.600 --> 0:45:58.319 as impactful, because I mean, it's like, what do we 0:45:58.360 --> 0:46:03.600 really know about Michelle Rodriguez's character other than she's now 0:46:03.640 --> 0:46:07.040 a single mom of two who used to own a 0:46:07.120 --> 0:46:10.200 business but now it doesn't like that's kind of it. 0:46:10.680 --> 0:46:14.080 She doesn't really have any depth beyond that, And it 0:46:14.080 --> 0:46:16.799 would almost it would almost kind of sees what if 0:46:16.840 --> 0:46:18.960 she maybe maybe if she want to mention but but 0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:21.040 was still kind of more involved and had screen time, 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:24.719 but she doesn't really have preetime either, and then they 0:46:24.760 --> 0:46:28.600 kind of have her bringing another character, Valdas, also doesn't 0:46:28.640 --> 0:46:30.919 really get dimensions, So I'm like, you had I want 0:46:30.920 --> 0:46:33.319 a character that doesn't get dimention thing they get to mention, 0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:35.880 and so they just kind of just kind of floating 0:46:36.320 --> 0:46:38.759 and I thought it was interesting the way that they 0:46:38.760 --> 0:46:41.320 had bell and and Ronda kind of face off to 0:46:41.440 --> 0:46:44.280 it when she's introduced and she kind of asserts herself 0:46:44.320 --> 0:46:47.440 and is like freaking directly off, like okay, it's interesting 0:46:47.760 --> 0:46:50.239 like contrast. But but then she gets at the car 0:46:50.280 --> 0:46:54.120 and just kind of leaves, and I was like, she's 0:46:54.120 --> 0:46:56.160 so you're just so we're just we're not going to 0:46:56.200 --> 0:47:00.200 explore okay, all right, right, It's like Cynthia Rivo is 0:47:00.239 --> 0:47:04.680 like so unbelievably talented, and but like her character comes 0:47:04.680 --> 0:47:07.759 in forty five minutes into the movie, I think, and 0:47:07.800 --> 0:47:09.799 then it's like, oh, we're gonna have to play catch up. 0:47:09.800 --> 0:47:11.680 We've got to like we've got to get her really 0:47:11.800 --> 0:47:14.719 involved if she's gonna you know. But but then it's 0:47:14.719 --> 0:47:19.359 like they don't really follow through on that where I 0:47:19.400 --> 0:47:23.960 really liked how that sequence with her getting to the 0:47:24.000 --> 0:47:26.839 second job was composed, and like that was another really 0:47:26.880 --> 0:47:30.760 cool cinematography moment where she gets home and she sees 0:47:31.239 --> 0:47:33.279 her daughter for a second, but then she gets a 0:47:33.320 --> 0:47:37.400 call from it turns out Michelle Rodriguez saying, Hey, I 0:47:37.440 --> 0:47:40.279 need a sitter, and she's in such financial straits that 0:47:40.320 --> 0:47:42.440 she has to run to catch the bus to get 0:47:42.440 --> 0:47:44.040 to a second job, and I was like, that was 0:47:44.080 --> 0:47:48.960 such a well executed sequence and sets her character and 0:47:49.000 --> 0:47:52.520 her kind of predicament up, But then where does it go? 0:47:52.920 --> 0:47:56.839 Like I feel like, yeah, her character deserved a more 0:47:56.880 --> 0:48:01.120 complete arc and like more relations chips with the women 0:48:01.200 --> 0:48:04.920 she was around, and it just felt like, I don't know. 0:48:04.960 --> 0:48:06.359 I mean, I guess that there are kind of two 0:48:06.400 --> 0:48:09.160 movies going on inside of this movie, which I'm not 0:48:09.239 --> 0:48:12.480 opposed to, but it's like the movie is called Widows. 0:48:13.160 --> 0:48:16.960 I would like to know about the widow Widows. Yeah, 0:48:17.239 --> 0:48:20.399 I have to imagine that part of that is a 0:48:20.440 --> 0:48:25.320 byproduct of the movie being adapted from a TV series. 0:48:26.160 --> 0:48:30.320 It's adapted from a nineteen eight three British TV series 0:48:30.840 --> 0:48:35.840 also called Widows from I think like writer creator Linda 0:48:36.200 --> 0:48:42.960 la Plant and that was a several episode narrative. I 0:48:43.000 --> 0:48:45.719 haven't seen it, and I don't know much about the series, 0:48:45.920 --> 0:48:49.000 so I don't know exactly what was like lifted from 0:48:49.000 --> 0:48:52.360 that and put into this adaptation, or you know, what 0:48:52.560 --> 0:48:55.880 was left out. But I I wonder if some of 0:48:55.920 --> 0:49:01.280 what feels kind of condensed and it's just like thoroughly developed, 0:49:01.360 --> 0:49:06.160 is because there's like actually more story than a feature 0:49:06.239 --> 0:49:10.880 length film has time to tell. I don't know, I'm 0:49:10.920 --> 0:49:13.040 not gonna let them quite get away with that. Well, yeah, 0:49:13.080 --> 0:49:15.600 I don't think it's an excuse, but I think it's 0:49:15.640 --> 0:49:18.239 maybe like a reason. I did a little bit of 0:49:18.280 --> 0:49:20.400 research on it. I did not watch the series. I 0:49:20.440 --> 0:49:23.640 was unable to find it, but um I did. I 0:49:23.840 --> 0:49:26.000 watched a bunch of interviews with Steve McQueen, and I 0:49:26.040 --> 0:49:31.640 guess that he had really wanted to adapt this series specifically. 0:49:31.760 --> 0:49:33.200 I guess it's something he saw when he was a 0:49:33.280 --> 0:49:37.239 kid and he was like really into it, and he 0:49:37.280 --> 0:49:42.000 gave we can link to this interview, but um, he 0:49:42.120 --> 0:49:45.160 was really compelled by the mini series when he was 0:49:45.200 --> 0:49:48.279 a kid, because I think it's like equally hit upon 0:49:48.400 --> 0:49:51.200 in that eighties mini series that a lot of the 0:49:51.280 --> 0:49:55.480 reason that the widows are able to get away with 0:49:55.520 --> 0:50:00.640 this heist is because they're underestimated by everyone around them, 0:50:00.680 --> 0:50:04.680 because they're women, because they're women. And Steve McQueen gave 0:50:04.680 --> 0:50:06.600 an interview where he was like, and I really connected 0:50:06.640 --> 0:50:09.560 to that because I was a young black kid growing 0:50:09.680 --> 0:50:11.800 up in London and I felt like I was also 0:50:11.960 --> 0:50:15.200 constantly underestimated and so it was a story that really 0:50:15.960 --> 0:50:18.120 resonated with me, even though it wasn't like a one 0:50:18.160 --> 0:50:20.800 to one thing, And so I thought like his connection 0:50:20.840 --> 0:50:24.520 to the story was really cool, and that Gillian Flynn 0:50:24.560 --> 0:50:28.400 was brought in was like also interesting. And but I 0:50:28.440 --> 0:50:31.880 don't really like, yeah, I don't, I don't know. I 0:50:32.400 --> 0:50:35.520 it seems like, I mean, the original source material seems 0:50:35.600 --> 0:50:39.160 pretty different in that, like the basic premise is the same, 0:50:39.320 --> 0:50:42.880 but Steve McQueen and Jillian and Gillian Flynn have changed 0:50:42.920 --> 0:50:46.200 the setting, they have changed the time period, They've changed 0:50:46.360 --> 0:50:49.399 a lot of stuff. So I feel like they had 0:50:49.400 --> 0:50:52.879 already taken enough creative updating and liberties to kind of 0:50:52.880 --> 0:50:55.879 course correct some of this stuff that And I mean 0:50:55.920 --> 0:50:58.200 it's like we don't who knows the kind of studio 0:50:58.239 --> 0:51:01.760 notes movies like highst movies go through and in any 0:51:01.800 --> 0:51:04.319 movies go through. So I'm not saying it's like all 0:51:04.480 --> 0:51:06.480 on them, but there were certain things that was like 0:51:07.160 --> 0:51:09.960 they've already changed a lot about the source material, so 0:51:10.040 --> 0:51:14.920 why not give half of the widows a story? Like 0:51:15.000 --> 0:51:19.759 I don't know, Yeah, I don't know. Um, let's take 0:51:19.920 --> 0:51:23.160 a quick break and then we'll come back for more 0:51:23.160 --> 0:51:34.440 discussion and we're back. Um, should we get into what 0:51:34.880 --> 0:51:39.800 works more effectively in this movie, such as it's fun 0:51:40.239 --> 0:51:44.800 and I like it this I suppose it is a romp, 0:51:45.040 --> 0:51:47.680 but it's more it's a way darker, more serious romp 0:51:47.800 --> 0:51:52.280 than I usually associate with romps. It's a serious romp. 0:51:52.520 --> 0:51:56.560 It's a heavy romp. Yeah, yeah, But I mean I 0:51:56.960 --> 0:52:01.200 find it really cool and compelling that there's a lot 0:52:01.239 --> 0:52:06.640 of commentary being made throughout the movie on things like class, race, 0:52:06.920 --> 0:52:10.080 and gender, because a lot of heist movies do not 0:52:10.320 --> 0:52:13.239 bother with any kind of social commentary. It's usually just 0:52:13.400 --> 0:52:17.600 a bunch of white guys who decide to steal money 0:52:17.680 --> 0:52:22.399 for sometimes no reason, or sometimes it's because, you know, 0:52:22.840 --> 0:52:26.919 George Clooney wants to have a dick measuring contest with 0:52:27.160 --> 0:52:30.879 Andy Garcia for example. That is I mean, I am 0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:34.880 still waiting for that movie where a diverse group of 0:52:34.920 --> 0:52:38.520 women steal a bunch of ships for no reason, Like 0:52:38.680 --> 0:52:42.640 I feel like that is deserved because it's like I 0:52:42.719 --> 0:52:46.439 was thinking about, like this movie and Oceans eight, where 0:52:46.480 --> 0:52:52.040 it's like their reasons for stealing are still virtuous enough 0:52:52.239 --> 0:52:55.279 that they're not like evil people, or it's like what 0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:59.080 let the women be evil, just like no one asks 0:52:59.080 --> 0:53:02.239 why George Clooney wants this money. Can't Viola Davis just 0:53:02.320 --> 0:53:05.680 steal two million dollars, just let her do it. But this, 0:53:05.840 --> 0:53:07.520 I like that this movie does what it does. I 0:53:07.800 --> 0:53:11.759 totally agree, and I think also I think what I say, 0:53:12.360 --> 0:53:14.600 I do kind of like that they're not friends in 0:53:14.600 --> 0:53:16.560 a way. I kind of what does when I think 0:53:16.560 --> 0:53:18.239 I thought was school, I felt I feel like a 0:53:18.239 --> 0:53:20.920 lot of I feel like a lot of temo the fact. 0:53:20.920 --> 0:53:23.120 Now it's like, oh, they're all somehow interconnected and they're 0:53:23.160 --> 0:53:25.719 all friends. But I do kind of like, I think 0:53:25.760 --> 0:53:28.840 I like that this I felt like what was the 0:53:28.880 --> 0:53:30.560 most ground in reality? I felt like and I felt 0:53:30.560 --> 0:53:32.400 that these women just aren't friends, but they did come 0:53:32.440 --> 0:53:35.800 together in the for survival. That what I got? What 0:53:37.360 --> 0:53:39.960 do you like? And then and then I do other things. 0:53:40.600 --> 0:53:42.960 I do think. I do think the crime was kind 0:53:42.960 --> 0:53:45.480 of heavy butody, but I do feel he's able to 0:53:45.480 --> 0:53:48.240 hand on the boat without dropping the ball on either 0:53:48.360 --> 0:53:52.120 really so at the run times, I feel those are 0:53:52.160 --> 0:53:57.080 definitely my favorite's my favorite aspect. Yeah, yeah, absolutely yeah. 0:53:57.400 --> 0:54:01.479 And then we also like see them fumble and they 0:54:01.840 --> 0:54:05.279 you know, Michelle rock Riguez is like, what the hell 0:54:05.320 --> 0:54:08.440 am I supposed to do with this blueprint? And Veronica 0:54:08.560 --> 0:54:11.479 is like, by being smarter than you are being right now. 0:54:12.200 --> 0:54:15.600 So it's it's cool that like we see them come 0:54:15.680 --> 0:54:21.640 together under these high stakes circumstances and have to figure 0:54:21.640 --> 0:54:25.239 it out along the way, right, and have like realistic conflict, 0:54:25.719 --> 0:54:27.920 right because like even though this is what like their 0:54:28.040 --> 0:54:36.400 husbands did professionally, like they are not trained skilled high stirs, thieves, etcetera. 0:54:36.520 --> 0:54:39.319 That training was also one of my favorite parts of 0:54:39.320 --> 0:54:42.120 the movie because she just Veronic could just sounds like 0:54:42.160 --> 0:54:44.759 this really I like Jim Teacher and they're just like, 0:54:44.840 --> 0:54:47.759 we hate you, and I'm just like there was some 0:54:48.000 --> 0:54:50.360 I don't know if either of you watched. I didn't. 0:54:50.400 --> 0:54:52.799 I watched like the first two or three seasons, but 0:54:53.200 --> 0:54:55.160 How to Get Away with Murder, But there were some 0:54:55.840 --> 0:54:58.439 moments in this movie that I was like, oh, this 0:54:58.560 --> 0:55:01.960 is like full on Analy's keating moments where it's just 0:55:02.000 --> 0:55:05.719 like Viola Davis is like, why are you incompetent? Which 0:55:05.760 --> 0:55:09.880 is basically that entire show. Oh my god. My favorite. 0:55:09.920 --> 0:55:13.080 One of my favorite exchanges is when Veronica is like, 0:55:13.200 --> 0:55:18.400 here's two thousand dollars, get some guns, and Alice is like, guns, 0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:21.560 where am I going to get guns? And Veronica was like, 0:55:21.680 --> 0:55:25.000 this is America, a k you can get guns like 0:55:25.080 --> 0:55:31.080 everywhere out literally. That was also also one of my 0:55:31.120 --> 0:55:33.879 favorite things I think was the gun things I got. Also, 0:55:33.920 --> 0:55:37.799 it was really um interesting kind of like to square 0:55:37.800 --> 0:55:41.600 Alf's character. I think also was really when she approaches 0:55:41.680 --> 0:55:45.279 that woman and like pretends to be I think a 0:55:45.320 --> 0:55:50.160 mail order bride, and the little girl is like, Mommy, 0:55:50.239 --> 0:55:52.800 you always said a gun is a girl's best friend, 0:55:52.880 --> 0:55:55.960 and You're like, oh no, this woman is like indoctrinating 0:55:55.960 --> 0:56:00.719 her young daughter into like toxic gun culture already. But 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:04.080 then also you think about, like, well, what is their 0:56:04.160 --> 0:56:07.319 background in personal history, and like what motivations would that 0:56:07.400 --> 0:56:09.960 mother have for her daughter to want to be able 0:56:09.960 --> 0:56:12.520 to defend herself. Like It's which I feel like also 0:56:12.560 --> 0:56:19.560 connects directly to Alice's character, who is like there's so 0:56:19.640 --> 0:56:23.439 much time put into like the various ways in which 0:56:23.480 --> 0:56:25.920 Alice has been traumatized to the point where it's like 0:56:26.000 --> 0:56:29.120 I felt I felt a lot of Gillian Flynn coming 0:56:29.160 --> 0:56:32.359 through with that Alice character, where and this isn't even 0:56:32.400 --> 0:56:35.800 really a criticism, but just like this is a subject 0:56:35.840 --> 0:56:39.160 matter that Gillian Flynn seems to take on frequently in 0:56:39.239 --> 0:56:43.600 her work, which is like mother daughter trauma and like 0:56:44.040 --> 0:56:48.799 toxic cycles between mothers and daughters specifically, which I think 0:56:48.880 --> 0:56:53.160 is kind of an under explored topic in media in general, 0:56:53.200 --> 0:56:54.959 where it's like we make the joke on this show 0:56:55.000 --> 0:56:59.560 that like every movie is about fathers and sons. But 0:56:59.680 --> 0:57:03.440 with Alice, it's like the the kind of like core 0:57:03.640 --> 0:57:08.400 of her character is that she was abused and manipulated 0:57:08.400 --> 0:57:13.040 by her mother and also by her husband, and like 0:57:13.320 --> 0:57:18.120 has this gigantic kind of crisis of self esteem and 0:57:18.160 --> 0:57:21.400 confidence in sense of self because she has been so 0:57:22.040 --> 0:57:26.840 controlled for her entire life in a way that is 0:57:26.880 --> 0:57:29.200 like I mean, it's it's almost like so much that 0:57:29.240 --> 0:57:31.320 I'm like, do we have enough time in this movie 0:57:31.320 --> 0:57:34.640 to really address all of this? Like that scene with 0:57:34.640 --> 0:57:39.000 her mother was fucking brutal, but yeah, I mean it's 0:57:39.920 --> 0:57:42.280 so this is like kind of where in this movie, 0:57:42.360 --> 0:57:45.600 I I get to another point where it's like this 0:57:45.680 --> 0:57:48.040 was going somewhere, but it felt like there wasn't enough 0:57:48.120 --> 0:57:51.200 time or whatever it was to like follow through on 0:57:51.280 --> 0:57:55.200 the seriousness of what was set up where I guess 0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:58.640 like it's it almost felt like, I don't know, like 0:57:58.760 --> 0:58:01.880 almost like a little bit girl power feminism for Alice 0:58:01.920 --> 0:58:04.360 by the end to be like I'm my own woman 0:58:04.440 --> 0:58:09.040 now and I'm at school and everything is great, and 0:58:09.760 --> 0:58:12.240 it just I mean, it's very movie I guess because 0:58:12.240 --> 0:58:15.280 if they set her up with severe trauma and then 0:58:15.280 --> 0:58:17.640 they're like and then she went to college and made 0:58:17.680 --> 0:58:22.280 one friend and you're like, well that okay, like it 0:58:22.360 --> 0:58:25.160 it feels a little undercooked to me. But I don't know, 0:58:25.240 --> 0:58:28.080 I I appreciate again, like you're saying, Caitlin, like the 0:58:28.120 --> 0:58:30.400 fact that this was even tackled in the highest genre 0:58:31.000 --> 0:58:37.520 is huge. Yeah, I think a lot of the effective commentary. 0:58:37.680 --> 0:58:40.640 I mean I actually kind of appreciated that it it 0:58:40.720 --> 0:58:45.720 didn't dwell on the whole, like, well where women but 0:58:45.840 --> 0:58:49.200 we can still do this. There's only one There's a 0:58:49.320 --> 0:58:52.640 very trailer scene where Viola Davis is like, we have 0:58:52.760 --> 0:58:56.160 the balls. They don't think we have the balls to 0:58:56.320 --> 0:59:00.240 do this. You're like, alright, alright, we get it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. 0:59:00.280 --> 0:59:02.560 She says like we have to move and think like 0:59:02.600 --> 0:59:04.959 a team of men. The best thing we have going 0:59:05.040 --> 0:59:09.320 for us is being what we are, implied women, because 0:59:09.360 --> 0:59:11.479 no one thinks we have the balls to pull this off, 0:59:11.880 --> 0:59:14.720 which I think is like an appropriate amount of discussion 0:59:14.960 --> 0:59:17.800 about that. If it had gone much more beyond that, 0:59:17.840 --> 0:59:20.440 I would have, um, like, that would be a little 0:59:20.440 --> 0:59:23.960 eye rolly to me. It's like, yeah, we know, that 0:59:23.960 --> 0:59:26.920 would almost feel it was like a movie directed at 0:59:26.960 --> 0:59:30.560 men to like remind men, yes, women are capable, Yes 0:59:30.640 --> 0:59:33.320 we can do ship like look at her with a 0:59:33.360 --> 0:59:37.640 gun and kicking like, But because the movie doesn't dwell 0:59:37.720 --> 0:59:41.560 on that, it just to me made it more accessible 0:59:41.920 --> 0:59:44.280 for me at least, right you know, I was like, okay, this, 0:59:44.800 --> 0:59:48.760 you're you're speaking my language. Um. And then I wanted 0:59:48.800 --> 0:59:52.280 to share a quote from Viola Davis from that same interview. 0:59:52.280 --> 0:59:54.760 I think that you were referencing Jamie from The New 0:59:54.800 --> 0:59:59.440 York Times right by Reggie Gogo, who says Viola Davis 0:59:59.480 --> 1:00:03.520 says about the movie quote, this movie is a realistic 1:00:03.600 --> 1:00:07.080 journey into women gaining ownership of their of their lives, 1:00:07.200 --> 1:00:09.360 and not at the expense of who they are. The 1:00:09.400 --> 1:00:13.160 feminine energy and the vulnerability are still there, but I 1:00:13.200 --> 1:00:15.760 think it's a fantasy and every woman to do something 1:00:15.760 --> 1:00:18.280 bold and brash and not nice, to bust out of 1:00:18.280 --> 1:00:21.480 themselves and this and social norms to get at some 1:00:21.560 --> 1:00:25.200 level of authenticity. I think that's what attracts people. I know, 1:00:25.280 --> 1:00:30.520 that's what attracts me. End quote. I know, ah, and 1:00:31.200 --> 1:00:35.680 that is largely what attracts me to this movie as well, 1:00:35.720 --> 1:00:40.640 like what compels me about it. Um. Yeah. And then 1:00:40.760 --> 1:00:45.320 in addition to that kind of like that gender commentary, UM, 1:00:45.360 --> 1:00:50.920 I think there's also effective class commentary and race commentary 1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:55.800 embodied a lot in the particularly like the race conversation 1:00:56.360 --> 1:01:01.280 in like the Jack Mulligan versus them All Manning, And 1:01:02.240 --> 1:01:04.640 that was another thing also. I also I also kind 1:01:04.640 --> 1:01:06.800 of thought about kind of when you're looking at the race, 1:01:07.000 --> 1:01:08.920 if you look at kind of conversation between Jack and 1:01:08.960 --> 1:01:12.000 his dad, he's he's he comes off as the more moral, 1:01:12.360 --> 1:01:15.280 better human kind of um, the more moral between the two, 1:01:15.320 --> 1:01:17.320 and then you kind of opposed with him and jam 1:01:17.360 --> 1:01:19.840 All and then he's kind of and and then he's 1:01:19.920 --> 1:01:22.640 the kind of the last moral, the more evil, I guess, 1:01:22.880 --> 1:01:26.080 I guess. But but also um, but also neither of 1:01:26.120 --> 1:01:29.120 them are also like morally right, and so I love 1:01:29.160 --> 1:01:32.520 that the phone both both comments. I love that it 1:01:32.520 --> 1:01:35.440 comes on a couple of things. One kind of um 1:01:35.520 --> 1:01:38.200 kind of because then then it also gives Jack kind 1:01:38.200 --> 1:01:40.360 of credit, I guess, for being like a kind of 1:01:40.640 --> 1:01:44.920 basic um we're not going for like basic um basic 1:01:44.920 --> 1:01:47.560 beauty as a white man as opposed to kind of 1:01:47.720 --> 1:01:50.360 his more cotween his father, but within they're both kind 1:01:50.400 --> 1:01:54.480 of more wrally wrong totally I guess if that makes sense. Yeah, 1:01:54.480 --> 1:01:57.520 I thought that that, uh, one of the things that 1:01:57.520 --> 1:02:02.360 that storyline got too. Pretty effectively, it's like some I mean, 1:02:02.360 --> 1:02:05.000 it's not like dwelled on in any significant way, but 1:02:05.040 --> 1:02:09.560 like almost generational commentary where I feel like it's pretty 1:02:09.600 --> 1:02:12.919 clearly telegraphed that the Mulligan's the father and the son. 1:02:13.880 --> 1:02:16.240 No one gives a ship about the people in the 1:02:16.240 --> 1:02:20.000 eighteenth district there. They don't care. They're more obsessed with 1:02:20.080 --> 1:02:24.280 keeping power than anything else, Like they don't give a fuck, 1:02:24.680 --> 1:02:26.560 But the ways that they don't give a funk are 1:02:26.680 --> 1:02:31.600 very indicative of their generation. Where Robert Duval's character is 1:02:31.720 --> 1:02:37.520 just openly racist, like completely mask off, horrifying to watch 1:02:37.560 --> 1:02:41.680 and listen to, and then Colin Ferrell's character is almost 1:02:41.720 --> 1:02:47.360 like this more gen x iteration of that same racism 1:02:47.360 --> 1:02:51.400 and classism and dismissal of his constituents, but he's like 1:02:51.720 --> 1:02:54.840 more polite about it, and he doesn't say the quiet 1:02:54.880 --> 1:02:58.400 part loud, like it's it's very I don't know, like 1:02:58.800 --> 1:03:00.680 there were moments in that story and that we're really 1:03:00.840 --> 1:03:03.720 difficult to watch, but in a way that it's like 1:03:04.320 --> 1:03:07.760 they were being pretty effective in the way that it's like, 1:03:08.120 --> 1:03:11.080 well and the and the bleakest part of it is 1:03:11.120 --> 1:03:14.800 by the end whatever I mean, Jack Mulligan wins on 1:03:14.960 --> 1:03:18.800 the sympathy vote because Robert daval was murdered, and so 1:03:19.480 --> 1:03:21.560 if you look at it one way, it's like we 1:03:21.680 --> 1:03:24.600 know that Jack Mulligan doesn't actually want this job, he 1:03:24.720 --> 1:03:28.560 doesn't care, he feels so bad for himself and he 1:03:28.600 --> 1:03:32.560 feels cursed by having to do this job. But ultimately 1:03:32.760 --> 1:03:36.600 it's the eighteenth district who loses because they're subjected to 1:03:36.760 --> 1:03:41.240 yet another term of uh nepotism, white guy who doesn't 1:03:41.280 --> 1:03:44.160 give a ship and is just completely phoning it in, 1:03:44.400 --> 1:03:50.840 And it's like that political cycle is I don't I mean, 1:03:50.920 --> 1:03:54.400 it's it's such a real thing and very I don't know, 1:03:54.480 --> 1:03:56.400 like I feel like there are some ways where like 1:03:56.840 --> 1:04:01.120 that area of the story was so effectively done, and 1:04:01.160 --> 1:04:03.480 then it was like, but I wish that I don't know. 1:04:03.760 --> 1:04:05.760 I was trying to think of was like I wish 1:04:05.800 --> 1:04:10.400 that like one of the widows worked in politics more meaningfully, 1:04:10.480 --> 1:04:13.640 or there was more connection between those two storylines that 1:04:13.760 --> 1:04:16.760 like fused them together, because at different times it felt 1:04:16.760 --> 1:04:19.640 like it was separate. That was what I remember kind 1:04:19.640 --> 1:04:22.720 of in that scene between Jack and Ronica, what would 1:04:22.760 --> 1:04:24.440 you kind of go then? And I kind of pretend 1:04:24.480 --> 1:04:26.280 that it's kind of something to do with school digit 1:04:26.360 --> 1:04:29.800 and actually kind of asking for help. I wish I 1:04:29.840 --> 1:04:32.200 said her job had said some how been ebolding, maybe 1:04:32.440 --> 1:04:34.440 working with him in some way, because if you can 1:04:34.480 --> 1:04:36.720 make her the main character half a direct have that 1:04:36.800 --> 1:04:39.000 been the direct link? I feel like that would have 1:04:39.040 --> 1:04:45.040 been more effective. Yeah, I because Veronica teachers, like a 1:04:45.080 --> 1:04:49.120 former member of the teachers union. Yeah, some something along 1:04:49.240 --> 1:04:53.480 those lines, which we only learn about through dialogue, and 1:04:53.520 --> 1:04:57.000 I'm like, oh, that would have been interesting to explore more. 1:04:57.280 --> 1:05:01.480 Sometimes I'm just like, maybe there's movie would have worked 1:05:01.520 --> 1:05:05.040 better if it was also just a readapted TV series 1:05:05.120 --> 1:05:07.560 and that way we would like get more of us, 1:05:07.840 --> 1:05:12.800 more time to explore. Yeah. Yeah, but remember I remember 1:05:13.520 --> 1:05:15.320 the first time I was I remember thinking I was like, 1:05:15.720 --> 1:05:18.440 this would be a really good, like two part pilot 1:05:18.520 --> 1:05:23.440 for this would work really well. Yeah, as as a pilot, Yeah, 1:05:23.480 --> 1:05:25.840 because I guess it's like our main criticisms are like 1:05:26.000 --> 1:05:28.960 things that we wish we had more time to explore, 1:05:29.360 --> 1:05:32.680 but they just made the cuts they made. Yeah. Another 1:05:32.720 --> 1:05:37.280 one of another example of that is the kind of 1:05:37.320 --> 1:05:40.480 I wouldn't even call it a storyline because it's so fleeting, 1:05:40.560 --> 1:05:46.560 but the detail you learn about Veronica and Harry's son, Marcus, 1:05:47.320 --> 1:05:51.600 who was shot and killed by cops because they racially 1:05:51.600 --> 1:05:57.560 profiled him, and that is then kind of followed up 1:05:57.560 --> 1:06:01.760 on because there's this kind of ongoing in flashbacks between 1:06:01.880 --> 1:06:05.400 Veronica and Harry where she says, he you know, He's like, 1:06:06.160 --> 1:06:08.640 don't make me feel like my only regret is having 1:06:08.640 --> 1:06:11.760 a child with you, and she responds with, you know, 1:06:11.840 --> 1:06:13.760 maybe you should have had a child with someone else, 1:06:13.800 --> 1:06:17.480 because then he would still be alive, which when we 1:06:17.520 --> 1:06:20.920 get the flashback of his murder, we realized, oh, he 1:06:21.000 --> 1:06:23.360 was killed because of the color of his skin, and 1:06:23.400 --> 1:06:27.440 had he been a white man, that wouldn't have happened. 1:06:27.640 --> 1:06:32.120 And so like Veronica is harboring, seems to be harboring 1:06:32.360 --> 1:06:36.320 this guilt revolving around that and then later when Harry 1:06:36.320 --> 1:06:39.360 shows up at the very end, she calls him out. 1:06:39.400 --> 1:06:41.800 She's like, you're such a coward, like you've been having 1:06:41.800 --> 1:06:44.320 this affair and now you have this son, your new 1:06:44.480 --> 1:06:48.160 your new son, your new white happy family. And it's 1:06:48.200 --> 1:06:51.920 this like undercurrent in the movie. But I feel like 1:06:51.960 --> 1:06:55.240 that could have been something that was explored further, and 1:06:55.680 --> 1:06:57.320 I would have liked to have just like kind of 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:01.480 learned more about that and how that's affecting Aronica. I agree, 1:07:01.520 --> 1:07:05.720 and I sh'll think about I thought it was because 1:07:05.720 --> 1:07:08.600 I feel like that pop Win comes with a lot 1:07:08.640 --> 1:07:10.920 of his history kind of with with feminity and and 1:07:10.800 --> 1:07:12.840 and the kind of the digitalvantages and the way the 1:07:12.840 --> 1:07:16.000 black women, black women aren't offered that kind of feminity, 1:07:16.000 --> 1:07:17.240 and the way that what women are kind of are 1:07:17.240 --> 1:07:19.960 the ideal of femininity, and the way that the world 1:07:20.000 --> 1:07:23.400 that we're often not not teenage women or um or 1:07:23.480 --> 1:07:26.480 not often not offered as a kind of advantage or 1:07:26.520 --> 1:07:29.760 safety um the other one we get because of feminity 1:07:30.160 --> 1:07:32.560 um and and and and then and and then and 1:07:32.600 --> 1:07:34.040 then and then and then having it in your head 1:07:34.080 --> 1:07:36.919 and and and and and then seeing your husband then 1:07:37.120 --> 1:07:40.520 move on and then saying yours move on with the women, 1:07:40.600 --> 1:07:43.280 which is if you are being bad enough, but but 1:07:43.360 --> 1:07:46.560 but then to see him, you know, choose choose that 1:07:46.680 --> 1:07:48.960 over you and and and to have and really kind 1:07:48.960 --> 1:07:51.400 of makes the deal even worse. I feel like that 1:07:51.440 --> 1:07:53.840 was a really interesting pot point. It could have been 1:07:53.840 --> 1:07:57.880 expanded a lot more than it was, because there's because 1:07:57.880 --> 1:08:02.440 there's so much history with that. Absolutely, Yeah, I was 1:08:02.800 --> 1:08:06.160 sort of wondering what the script and the story gained 1:08:06.160 --> 1:08:10.880 by withholding that information for so long, because it seemed like, 1:08:10.880 --> 1:08:13.720 like you're saying, Michael Michel, like there there is so 1:08:13.800 --> 1:08:17.800 much historically and story wise to explore there, But by 1:08:17.840 --> 1:08:22.880 the time you learn what their history is and who 1:08:22.920 --> 1:08:26.240 their son was and what actually happened, there's almost no 1:08:26.360 --> 1:08:30.799 run time left to do anything but kill Liam Neeson, 1:08:31.080 --> 1:08:35.799 which is like I'm I feel great about like great 1:08:35.920 --> 1:08:38.680 kill Liam Neeson all day long. But but yeah, it 1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:42.120 felt like, yeah, that the movie didn't give enough time 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:47.320 to effectively explore what you were describing. And it feels 1:08:47.360 --> 1:08:50.000 like that character like Veronica is so well set up 1:08:50.080 --> 1:08:54.040 that too, withhold that information for so long, I feel 1:08:54.040 --> 1:08:57.840 like it almost does a disservice to her character. And 1:08:57.840 --> 1:09:00.400 then um, kind of back to your point, mean about 1:09:00.400 --> 1:09:04.719 like kind of the generational differences between Jack Mulligan and 1:09:05.040 --> 1:09:09.000 his father. I think another example of that is that 1:09:09.200 --> 1:09:14.519 programmed that initiative that Jack Mulligan started, the m WOW, 1:09:14.800 --> 1:09:21.000 the Minority Women Owned Work initiative, where it seems, based 1:09:21.040 --> 1:09:24.160 on what you know about him, it's obviously an extremely 1:09:24.479 --> 1:09:31.800 performative thing. That also he is he's basically exploiting the 1:09:31.840 --> 1:09:36.400 people of this district because you find out that they 1:09:36.439 --> 1:09:40.400 loaned money to these black women to like start their 1:09:40.400 --> 1:09:43.920 own businesses. But then these women are now like beholden 1:09:44.000 --> 1:09:47.719 to these loans that they're clearly struggling to pay back. 1:09:47.800 --> 1:09:50.400 Because that's something that we see in the hair salon 1:09:51.080 --> 1:09:55.240 that Bell works in, because her her boss, the owner 1:09:55.280 --> 1:10:00.439 of the salon, is having confrontations in and our humans 1:10:00.439 --> 1:10:04.280 with this man who we understand is coming to collect 1:10:04.920 --> 1:10:09.479 on this debt. And so basically it's like this, you know, 1:10:09.560 --> 1:10:11.960 this Jack Mulligan guy being like, look at me, Look 1:10:12.000 --> 1:10:15.000 what I'm doing. I'm empowering these women of color to 1:10:15.520 --> 1:10:18.559 be business owners, and that's generating revenue, and that revenue 1:10:18.640 --> 1:10:20.840 is going back into the neighborhood. But then when you 1:10:20.880 --> 1:10:25.639 actually learn about the real circumstances of that initiative where 1:10:25.720 --> 1:10:29.760 it's all about you know, this performative gesture, this exploitation 1:10:29.920 --> 1:10:34.800 that he's making money off of two. So yeah, I 1:10:34.840 --> 1:10:39.479 thought that was all an effective examination of that just 1:10:39.760 --> 1:10:47.080 type of very corrupt, performative political whatever dealings that might 1:10:47.160 --> 1:10:53.520 seem like they're helping marginalized communities but is actually exploitative. 1:10:53.760 --> 1:10:58.360 I thought that was effective. Yeah, and I liked that. Again, 1:10:58.360 --> 1:11:00.320 it's just like, yeah, the more we talk about this, 1:11:00.360 --> 1:11:04.400 it's like, oh, there's so much like really timely and 1:11:04.479 --> 1:11:07.840 like well set up premises here that we just don't 1:11:07.920 --> 1:11:10.400 have enough time to explore where it's like not even 1:11:10.880 --> 1:11:13.240 as much a criticism of the movie of like, I 1:11:13.280 --> 1:11:14.560 think the more we talk about it, the more I 1:11:14.560 --> 1:11:16.320 think you're right, Michael Michelburg. It's like this should be 1:11:16.360 --> 1:11:19.280 just like a limited series where we have the real 1:11:19.439 --> 1:11:22.920 estate to like like really examine this. I would have 1:11:23.040 --> 1:11:25.880 loved it, Yeah, it would, And I like, I mean 1:11:25.920 --> 1:11:29.400 it's they I feel like the screenwriters are doing their 1:11:29.439 --> 1:11:31.719 best there where it's like you do see like there's 1:11:31.760 --> 1:11:36.160 that one reporter who I appreciate, see like him just 1:11:36.479 --> 1:11:38.479 I don't know, I've seen stuff like this happen in 1:11:38.560 --> 1:11:41.720 real time where it's like a city councilor is spewing 1:11:42.439 --> 1:11:45.760 campaign point bullshit. Everyone knows he's full of ship, but 1:11:45.760 --> 1:11:50.240 there's only like one reporter who's like, wait, what uh 1:11:50.840 --> 1:11:54.120 just watching the city councilor ignore them and be like, oh, 1:11:54.160 --> 1:11:58.200 this is so annoying when people acknowledge that I'm a liar, 1:11:58.520 --> 1:12:03.720 like that whole thing, it's like it's so uh yeah, yeah, 1:12:03.880 --> 1:12:06.439 I don't know, it's it's good. And then but then 1:12:06.479 --> 1:12:09.160 it's also like we don't get quite enough of it 1:12:09.240 --> 1:12:12.799 because I like that. I mean that was another great 1:12:12.880 --> 1:12:18.320 scene for Cynthia Arrivo's character where she's talking with um, 1:12:18.720 --> 1:12:20.639 I need to remember the name of the character who 1:12:20.640 --> 1:12:24.360 owns the hair salon, and and she's pushing back and 1:12:24.400 --> 1:12:28.160 being like, well that doesn't sound right, Like this isn't 1:12:28.880 --> 1:12:32.839 you know He's he's basically profiting off of pretending to 1:12:33.120 --> 1:12:35.559 help us when he's not helping us, he's helping himself. 1:12:36.120 --> 1:12:39.280 And the owner of the salon kind of replies with like, yeah, 1:12:39.320 --> 1:12:41.960 I know, but what else am I supposed to do? 1:12:42.120 --> 1:12:45.519 Like what other options are available to me? Which is 1:12:45.960 --> 1:12:51.759 a huge conversation that again, it's like it's so wild 1:12:52.120 --> 1:12:54.639 in a positive way that this conversation is being had 1:12:54.680 --> 1:12:57.639 in a heist movie. And I also wish that there 1:12:57.720 --> 1:13:00.400 was more time to explore it, and also, you know, 1:13:00.479 --> 1:13:05.879 just get to know Cynthia Arriva's character better in general totally. 1:13:05.880 --> 1:13:11.559 I mean the catharsis of that salon owner struggling and 1:13:11.600 --> 1:13:14.439 acknowledging like, well, I couldn't have gone a bank, wouldn't 1:13:14.439 --> 1:13:16.559 have given me the loan to start my own business, 1:13:16.680 --> 1:13:20.720 you know, and then to have money paid back to 1:13:20.720 --> 1:13:23.800 her because Belle takes a part of her split from 1:13:23.840 --> 1:13:27.080 the heist and gives it to the salon owner. So 1:13:27.160 --> 1:13:31.000 like just the catharsis of having that debt paid back 1:13:31.000 --> 1:13:34.840 to her, or like getting that money to start a 1:13:34.880 --> 1:13:38.600 business without you know, having these loan sharks basically like 1:13:38.640 --> 1:13:41.559 breathing down her neck, you know, putting her in a 1:13:41.600 --> 1:13:46.160 position of being more financially secure, and that money coming 1:13:46.280 --> 1:13:50.800 from the very man who exploited her to begin with, 1:13:51.240 --> 1:13:57.759 is very cathartic. Yeah, Um, does anyone have any other 1:13:58.640 --> 1:14:02.920 thoughts about the phil Um? What were you always thoughts 1:14:02.960 --> 1:14:07.599 kind of about his kind of relations relationship kind of 1:14:07.920 --> 1:14:11.479 just that's working and all of that. Oh, that's a 1:14:12.080 --> 1:14:15.160 that's an excellent question. I would be curious. I almost 1:14:15.160 --> 1:14:19.000 want I wasn't able to find I was because so 1:14:19.200 --> 1:14:21.240 this I don't think came up a lot in the summary, 1:14:21.280 --> 1:14:23.880 but um for listener reference if you have not seen 1:14:23.920 --> 1:14:28.559 the movie yet, Alice is pressured by her mother to 1:14:29.280 --> 1:14:35.200 become a sugar baby in order to financially sustain herself 1:14:35.320 --> 1:14:39.040 and also presumably her mother to an extent after her 1:14:39.120 --> 1:14:44.040 husband dies in the heist, and so for much of 1:14:44.080 --> 1:14:48.400 the movie we see Alice is in a transactional sugar 1:14:48.439 --> 1:14:55.760 baby relationship with this business guy. So I was I 1:14:55.800 --> 1:14:58.519 was hoping to be able. I was looking for a 1:14:58.560 --> 1:15:02.479 sex worker perspective on this storyline, and I wasn't able 1:15:02.560 --> 1:15:06.720 to find one. So if I mean, if we do 1:15:06.800 --> 1:15:09.479 have any listeners who have insights into that, we would 1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:13.000 love we were totally open to hearing it, and I wasn't. 1:15:13.040 --> 1:15:15.519 I don't know. I mean, my instinct there was that 1:15:15.560 --> 1:15:19.640 it was well intentioned but possibly a little undercooked. I 1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:22.000 felt like there there was kind of an element in 1:15:22.520 --> 1:15:27.240 at least with that guy, Dave David vague rich guy, 1:15:27.360 --> 1:15:32.000 where he was pretty emotionally volatile towards Alice, where there 1:15:32.000 --> 1:15:36.800 were moments where he was very affectionate towards her and 1:15:36.920 --> 1:15:38.719 she seemed to think that there might be a real 1:15:38.800 --> 1:15:42.040 relationship developing, and then he would turn on her and 1:15:42.080 --> 1:15:45.360 be like, this is a transaction for me and grows 1:15:45.439 --> 1:15:48.080 more and more volatile as the story goes on, and 1:15:48.120 --> 1:15:50.920 it feels like, I don't know, I would be curious 1:15:50.960 --> 1:15:54.400 to know how much when Steve McQueen and Gillian flam 1:15:54.400 --> 1:15:58.719 were collaborating on this, how much they spoke to sex 1:15:58.760 --> 1:16:03.000 workers versus used the idea of sugar baby to advance 1:16:03.040 --> 1:16:05.800 the character and get her to where they wanted her 1:16:05.920 --> 1:16:07.840 to be. Because I I sort of felt like, and 1:16:07.880 --> 1:16:11.120 again it's like I don't have experience in this realm, 1:16:11.200 --> 1:16:13.639 but it almost it did feel to me a little 1:16:13.680 --> 1:16:17.479 bit like they were commenting more on the idea of 1:16:17.479 --> 1:16:19.639 a sugar baby as a means to an end, versus 1:16:19.680 --> 1:16:23.679 any actual insight into sex work. It felt it felt 1:16:23.760 --> 1:16:27.360 kind of dragmental to me. Um kind of both both 1:16:27.520 --> 1:16:30.439 both to the filmmakers and kind of and also and 1:16:30.479 --> 1:16:32.479 also all the kid goes around her, It just kind 1:16:32.520 --> 1:16:35.280 of felt like everyone was kind of um. It just 1:16:35.360 --> 1:16:38.880 kept being a plot point of basically her for either 1:16:39.000 --> 1:16:42.320 not having a real job or not really being intelligent 1:16:42.439 --> 1:16:45.080 because as a reflector of being a sugar baby. And 1:16:45.160 --> 1:16:49.120 I was like, this bear is a little off base here. Yeah, 1:16:49.840 --> 1:16:57.640 I have two thoughts about this. Number one is ready um. 1:16:57.840 --> 1:17:02.240 Number one is I was trying to figure out if 1:17:02.280 --> 1:17:06.800 there was a distinction between the movie whether or not 1:17:06.880 --> 1:17:11.439 it was passing judgment about this versus other characters in 1:17:11.479 --> 1:17:15.240 the narrative passing judgment, because I mean, Veronica certainly is 1:17:15.280 --> 1:17:19.080 passing judgment as a character, definitely. Yeah, And I think 1:17:19.120 --> 1:17:22.000 maybe even correct me if I'm wrong, But I I 1:17:22.040 --> 1:17:26.439 feel like Michelle Rodriguez's character might also make some comment. 1:17:26.520 --> 1:17:29.000 Maybe it's just like about something she's wearing. I think 1:17:29.040 --> 1:17:32.080 that there's comments. It's not just I mean, but with like, yeah, 1:17:32.080 --> 1:17:34.960 with Veronica, I mean it's like a physical altercation. But yeah, 1:17:34.960 --> 1:17:36.800 I think that everyone is a little bit judge e 1:17:37.000 --> 1:17:44.280 about Alice's job. Right, So that's happening without question as 1:17:44.280 --> 1:17:48.799 far as the movie and the crafters of this story 1:17:48.920 --> 1:17:52.880 passing judgment, I feel like that was happening to a 1:17:52.960 --> 1:17:57.719 definitely lesser extent than some of the other characters passing judgment. 1:17:57.720 --> 1:17:59.320 But I feel like it would have been more effective 1:17:59.360 --> 1:18:02.720 if the movie is actually coming at it completely objectively. 1:18:03.439 --> 1:18:05.280 I think it would have been helpful to have a 1:18:05.320 --> 1:18:12.160 different character, maybe Michelle Rodriguez's character, to say, like, do 1:18:12.360 --> 1:18:18.519 whatever you want, it's your life, your choice. Yeah, good point. Yeah, Yeah, 1:18:18.760 --> 1:18:21.000 I don't know. And it also sort of sets up 1:18:21.040 --> 1:18:25.719 Elizabeth Debicky as an actor to be the most heavily 1:18:25.960 --> 1:18:31.280 sexualized character in the movie, where I mean, she is 1:18:31.439 --> 1:18:35.840 the only white woman of the widows, right, and and 1:18:35.960 --> 1:18:41.120 she's also the only woman that has a like long 1:18:41.320 --> 1:18:44.320 lingering sex scene and these scenes of her and all 1:18:44.439 --> 1:18:49.040 these gowns, and it just I don't know. I it 1:18:49.120 --> 1:18:51.559 wasn't my biggest issue with the movie, but it also 1:18:51.680 --> 1:18:56.120 just there were some lingering like why was this? And 1:18:56.200 --> 1:19:00.640 I am curious of like how much of that storyline 1:19:00.720 --> 1:19:02.800 was carried on from the mini series or if this 1:19:02.920 --> 1:19:05.960 was completely an invention of these two writers. I don't 1:19:06.000 --> 1:19:10.000 really know. Yeah, and we'll never know because we simply 1:19:10.280 --> 1:19:12.960 won't and maybe even can't. Where do you find British 1:19:13.520 --> 1:19:17.120 from the eighties? I tried, I really did try, and 1:19:17.400 --> 1:19:21.240 I couldn't find it. Yeah, but yeah, I'm a little 1:19:21.880 --> 1:19:27.000 wary of that. But my second thought about this is 1:19:27.080 --> 1:19:30.720 that it is a reminder to me that all of 1:19:30.760 --> 1:19:36.000 the men in the story are framed as being obstacles 1:19:36.040 --> 1:19:42.080 and or antagonistic forces for the widows, which I think 1:19:42.160 --> 1:19:47.479 is an interesting flip considering that in your average heist movie, 1:19:47.600 --> 1:19:55.240 which is again a bunch of men doing heists for reasons, um, 1:19:55.360 --> 1:20:00.040 women are often framed as obstacles. Like just again, to 1:20:00.120 --> 1:20:04.840 refer back to Oceans eleven, Julia Roberts, Brad Pitts all 1:20:04.880 --> 1:20:09.000 like she's a distraction, Danny Ocean stopped being distracted, blah 1:20:09.040 --> 1:20:11.360 blah blah. I still can't get over the fact that 1:20:11.439 --> 1:20:14.439 his name is Danny Ocean. Act movie so many times, 1:20:14.479 --> 1:20:18.400 and I'm like, what the fuck his name is Danny Ocean. 1:20:18.720 --> 1:20:25.400 I can't think of it's ludicrous, But um, yeah, so 1:20:25.439 --> 1:20:27.720 I think it was. I mean, I don't hate the 1:20:27.800 --> 1:20:30.680 choice that I mean. And again I'm not saying like 1:20:31.520 --> 1:20:35.200 all men hashtag, not all men are bad and obstacles, 1:20:37.160 --> 1:20:41.400 but um, between, like this David guy who Alice gets 1:20:41.439 --> 1:20:44.640 involved with, he, like you said, Jamie gets increasingly like 1:20:44.720 --> 1:20:49.680 more and more volatile. Her deceased husband was physically abusive. 1:20:50.400 --> 1:20:55.320 Linda's husband was gambling away all of her money that 1:20:55.400 --> 1:21:01.360 she earned from running this gown store boutique, yah, causing 1:21:01.400 --> 1:21:05.160 her to lose her business. Obviously, we talked about how 1:21:05.240 --> 1:21:09.240 Veronica's husband, Harry was, you know, cheating on her. He's lying, 1:21:09.360 --> 1:21:13.280 he's faking his death, he tries to kill her, etcetera. 1:21:13.560 --> 1:21:16.360 Name a thing he didn't do wrong. He really did 1:21:16.840 --> 1:21:20.760 every single thing. He fucked up real bad um. The 1:21:20.880 --> 1:21:25.400 men in the Manning family, the men and the Mulligan family, 1:21:25.600 --> 1:21:31.160 they are all posed as being antagonistic forces to the women. 1:21:31.400 --> 1:21:34.759 I would say the only exception is Bash the driver, 1:21:35.160 --> 1:21:39.439 like he's he seems okay, good friend as far as 1:21:39.439 --> 1:21:44.920 I can tell, and then he isn't okay because you know, 1:21:45.120 --> 1:21:48.840 he's just yeah that that's a really good point that 1:21:49.840 --> 1:21:52.639 I don't know, I have such complicated feelings about it's 1:21:52.640 --> 1:21:55.960 not even specific to this movie, but movies that it's 1:21:56.000 --> 1:21:58.759 so bizarre because it's just like whatever, the past five 1:21:58.840 --> 1:22:02.920 to seven years feel like it's been forever. It feels 1:22:02.960 --> 1:22:05.400 like such a long time. And so this movie is 1:22:05.479 --> 1:22:07.839 less than three years old, but there are already elements 1:22:07.840 --> 1:22:10.200 of it that not even in a way that I'm 1:22:10.240 --> 1:22:13.479 being super critical of but that feel a little bit dated, 1:22:13.640 --> 1:22:19.280 of like the feeling and the sort of like movie 1:22:19.560 --> 1:22:22.759 energy that was coming to screens in the year after 1:22:22.840 --> 1:22:26.800 the Me Too movements started going, versus being three years 1:22:26.840 --> 1:22:29.759 out and knowing kind of a little more about how 1:22:29.800 --> 1:22:33.440 that actually bore out, and like the successes and failures 1:22:33.439 --> 1:22:37.040 that that movement has had. It like, watching this movie 1:22:37.040 --> 1:22:40.160 now is like and watching the trailer, especially Michael Mitchell. 1:22:40.240 --> 1:22:43.120 You mentioned the trailer, and I remember being so fucking 1:22:43.240 --> 1:22:47.679 hyped on the trailer. I love. It's like the most 1:22:47.760 --> 1:22:50.160 me too trailer ever where it's like, we're going to 1:22:50.320 --> 1:22:53.480 do it now, and like it's very cathartic and exciting 1:22:53.720 --> 1:22:57.320 and and then but but then there's also like I 1:22:57.400 --> 1:23:00.680 can't quite describe what the feeling is, but there's it 1:23:00.760 --> 1:23:04.840 makes me like a little bit sad and discouraged to 1:23:04.920 --> 1:23:07.559 watch that trailers out because it felt like there was 1:23:07.600 --> 1:23:12.760 all this positive energy, and like with so many movements, 1:23:12.800 --> 1:23:16.400 you're like, oh, yeah, we didn't solve that in a year. 1:23:17.040 --> 1:23:21.320 What were we thinking? Like it was? I don't it's 1:23:21.320 --> 1:23:23.320 hard to just I don't. I don't really know exactly 1:23:23.320 --> 1:23:25.760 what I'm getting at here, but I guess just the 1:23:25.840 --> 1:23:30.640 idea of like, there have been so many reversals of 1:23:31.120 --> 1:23:35.400 mail driven plots, which this movie is in many ways, 1:23:35.439 --> 1:23:37.040 And I think that the ways that it does it 1:23:37.200 --> 1:23:40.920 and the subject matter it chooses to tackle is really smart. 1:23:41.280 --> 1:23:46.240 It's well written, it's certainly well acted, like it's really cool. 1:23:46.360 --> 1:23:49.280 And then there's also I don't know, I mean, there's 1:23:49.280 --> 1:23:52.080 certainly room for both of these sorts of movies, But 1:23:52.120 --> 1:23:55.519 then there's sometimes where it's like, is the only option 1:23:55.800 --> 1:23:59.760 to just flip it? Because I don't know in this 1:24:00.000 --> 1:24:02.600 ice piece that Again, I want to shout out the 1:24:02.760 --> 1:24:06.800 writer Amior Mercer. She was pointing out, like, with kind 1:24:06.800 --> 1:24:10.799 of the exception of set it off, most women driven 1:24:10.960 --> 1:24:16.280 heist movies are reversals of mail plots, and she pointed out, 1:24:16.680 --> 1:24:19.320 and I've only seen Oceans eight once and I didn't 1:24:19.360 --> 1:24:23.280 really like it very much, but how the women in 1:24:23.320 --> 1:24:28.400 Oceans eight are very defined in relation to characters who 1:24:28.479 --> 1:24:34.360 existed in Danny Ocean's life and like age my little 1:24:34.400 --> 1:24:39.120 sister and this is bu and it's all they exist 1:24:39.200 --> 1:24:43.360 in relation to men. And that is true of the way. 1:24:43.400 --> 1:24:47.520 I mean, that's like widows, like the title implies proximity 1:24:47.640 --> 1:24:50.360 to men, which is a very true you know that 1:24:50.479 --> 1:24:54.160 it's like a reality that exists. And then I also 1:24:54.200 --> 1:24:58.120 I'm just I don't know, I want us to get 1:24:58.120 --> 1:25:00.040 to a point where it doesn't need to be a 1:25:00.040 --> 1:25:02.920 flip of a movie we've seen before, like like it 1:25:02.920 --> 1:25:05.679 should just be a story on its own. It also 1:25:05.760 --> 1:25:07.799 kind of makes you think about that. There was this 1:25:08.000 --> 1:25:10.360 video I've watched the other day. I don't know, I 1:25:10.360 --> 1:25:11.800 think it might have been the take, but they're talking 1:25:11.840 --> 1:25:14.840 about how how often things in the female gage or 1:25:14.880 --> 1:25:17.680 just kind of flipping I just kind of flipping the 1:25:17.720 --> 1:25:21.280 mail gage but updractifying men. And so how do we 1:25:21.360 --> 1:25:25.320 get past just the flipping had what is film beyond that? 1:25:25.640 --> 1:25:28.559 And how do we get to a space of just 1:25:29.640 --> 1:25:33.320 a completely new space of just creating content that isn't 1:25:33.439 --> 1:25:35.800 that's beyond the flap of flipping? And how do we 1:25:35.840 --> 1:25:41.040 create it? And and what is that content? Yeah? Yeah, 1:25:41.080 --> 1:25:44.639 that's so well put. Yeah, where it's just like, at 1:25:44.680 --> 1:25:47.880 what point with like flipping that gaze is like it was, 1:25:48.080 --> 1:25:49.680 I don't know, I like almost go back to my 1:25:49.720 --> 1:25:52.160 twenty eight teen SEWT were like all I wanted to 1:25:52.200 --> 1:25:57.600 see was like in movies women doing two oppressors? What 1:25:57.640 --> 1:26:00.759 oppressors had done to them, and like that was really 1:26:00.840 --> 1:26:04.879 cathartic and exciting and like I felt like a release 1:26:05.360 --> 1:26:09.479 that was like needed. But at some point it's like, 1:26:09.840 --> 1:26:13.800 but that can't be the end game. You can't just 1:26:13.960 --> 1:26:20.680 flip patriarchy. That's ridiculous. Like there's like I don't know, 1:26:20.840 --> 1:26:23.840 I just like I don't know. I've well, I've been 1:26:23.880 --> 1:26:28.040 doing my feelings this summer. Well that we talked about 1:26:28.040 --> 1:26:33.120 this a lot, where I mean, progress is a process, right, 1:26:34.280 --> 1:26:38.080 and that where's the merch where's the T shirt? But 1:26:38.560 --> 1:26:41.759 it means that there are stepping stones, and we've covered 1:26:41.800 --> 1:26:43.720 a lot of movies on the show that we have 1:26:43.880 --> 1:26:47.360 commented that this feels like a stepping stone movie. This 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:50.000 is like a step in the right direction. It's not perfect, 1:26:50.080 --> 1:26:55.160 it's not nearly as like amazingly intersectionally feminist as we 1:26:55.439 --> 1:27:01.400 are hoping it is, but it was very progressive for 1:27:01.680 --> 1:27:04.320 the time that movie came out, or you know, whatever 1:27:04.360 --> 1:27:08.320 the case. So, yeah, I think it's I don't think 1:27:08.439 --> 1:27:12.080 it's the end game. Is just like a gender flip, 1:27:12.720 --> 1:27:17.080 but it is like one of the steps in the 1:27:17.240 --> 1:27:20.960 process or like just like process. Yeah, where it's like 1:27:21.280 --> 1:27:27.640 Widows does feel very much like how eighteen felt in 1:27:27.680 --> 1:27:30.479 a lot of ways words, which is wild to say 1:27:30.479 --> 1:27:33.760 because it's so recent, but it's like it is capturing 1:27:33.840 --> 1:27:38.959 so many ideas and catharsis and and just like beginning 1:27:38.960 --> 1:27:42.720 to discuss serious societal issues in a genre where you 1:27:42.760 --> 1:27:47.240 wouldn't normally even think about seeing that. Yeah, I don't know. 1:27:48.160 --> 1:27:51.559 I think I think that year specifically. I think I 1:27:51.600 --> 1:27:55.599 think we're like halfway through tough presidency and everyone kind 1:27:55.600 --> 1:27:58.400 of wanted and it was it was like it was 1:27:58.439 --> 1:28:01.759 like it was the year of of of representation mattering, 1:28:01.800 --> 1:28:04.880 and everyone was so want to grab Ronnie to grab 1:28:04.960 --> 1:28:08.200 and feel kind of aspirational and it definitely feels staved 1:28:08.240 --> 1:28:13.679 in that. Yeah. Yeah, it's it's so like even just yeah, 1:28:13.720 --> 1:28:18.360 like context historically was like, oh this this movie makes 1:28:18.479 --> 1:28:22.240 exact sense for the moment that it came out in 1:28:22.400 --> 1:28:25.760 and it's it is it's like so well done. I mean, 1:28:26.120 --> 1:28:29.280 and Steve McQueen and Gillian Flynn, like that's such a 1:28:29.320 --> 1:28:34.760 cool collaboration to have even happened, Like it's awesome. I 1:28:34.800 --> 1:28:37.160 think that Gillian Flynn, if I'm not mistaken, I believe 1:28:37.240 --> 1:28:41.000 that she is from Chicago, which is I think why 1:28:41.160 --> 1:28:46.479 the setting was shifted there. Um, I'm pretty yes, Okay, 1:28:46.479 --> 1:28:48.840 so yeah, she is. She has lived in Chicago for 1:28:48.920 --> 1:28:51.559 many years, so I think that that was why between 1:28:51.560 --> 1:28:54.080 her and Steve McQueen that it was like a British 1:28:54.160 --> 1:28:56.439 mini series that Steve McQueen loved, and then they said 1:28:56.479 --> 1:29:00.519 it where Gillian Flynn lived, and like it just it's cool. 1:29:00.640 --> 1:29:04.880 It's a really cool collaboration, really totally. But what other 1:29:04.960 --> 1:29:07.680 questions was also kind of because I don't think we 1:29:07.720 --> 1:29:10.719 talked about it. What was um was I guess Day's 1:29:11.960 --> 1:29:14.880 his too, his too kind of the the other kill 1:29:15.320 --> 1:29:17.920 the other killing scenes, the one with Bash kind of 1:29:17.960 --> 1:29:20.519 as wanting football, and then also and and and then 1:29:20.560 --> 1:29:23.720 also the freestyle raps he and I was wondering, kind of, 1:29:23.760 --> 1:29:29.640 what y'all what about those? I mean, just from a 1:29:29.640 --> 1:29:33.559 cinematic point of view, I'm always so shocked that it 1:29:33.840 --> 1:29:39.000 happens because we don't know who those characters are when 1:29:39.040 --> 1:29:42.040 they're first introduced, because we hadn't seen them before. We 1:29:42.040 --> 1:29:46.120 don't really understand the context that they like exist in 1:29:46.160 --> 1:29:49.920 the story or what their role is. And it's not 1:29:50.040 --> 1:29:56.160 until part way into the conversation that jam is having 1:29:56.840 --> 1:30:00.479 I think with other characters. Is it that they are 1:30:00.520 --> 1:30:04.240 the ones who kind of let the robbers get away 1:30:04.240 --> 1:30:06.160 with the money, or they were supposed to be like 1:30:06.880 --> 1:30:09.320 keeping an eye on the money and then they sucked 1:30:09.439 --> 1:30:11.559 up and that's why they were able to steal it. 1:30:11.680 --> 1:30:13.720 I think it was something along those lines, if I'm 1:30:13.760 --> 1:30:17.639 not mistaken. Um, yeah, that was my understanding of it. 1:30:17.880 --> 1:30:21.280 So they had like messed up and then they get 1:30:21.280 --> 1:30:26.240 punished for it by being shot and really brutal, especially 1:30:26.240 --> 1:30:30.479 the first shooting, right, Yeah, I don't know. Yeah, I 1:30:31.120 --> 1:30:34.680 was curious when everyone thought about that. I feel like 1:30:35.520 --> 1:30:38.040 those kinds of scenes are like you're saying that, they're 1:30:38.040 --> 1:30:40.160 always shocking to me because it's just like it's not 1:30:41.080 --> 1:30:45.080 a genre that I've ever been extremely invested in, and 1:30:45.120 --> 1:30:49.280 it does like these godfathery scenes where it's just like 1:30:50.240 --> 1:30:55.720 very dramatic executions has never really been for me, but 1:30:55.880 --> 1:30:58.240 I do. I yeah, I feel like the fact that 1:30:58.479 --> 1:31:03.719 these executions are done by a character who the movie 1:31:03.800 --> 1:31:07.880 isn't really letting us get to know makes watching it 1:31:08.000 --> 1:31:11.559 feel worse or like more exploitative, where it does sort 1:31:11.600 --> 1:31:16.160 of just feel like a torture porn situation because I 1:31:16.160 --> 1:31:19.439 feel like Daniel Clia, like you were saying earlier, Michael Michelle, 1:31:19.439 --> 1:31:23.240 like Daniel Clia's performance is doing the heavy lifting there 1:31:23.400 --> 1:31:27.559 where like you can tell like he's trying my And 1:31:27.560 --> 1:31:29.800 then I watched an interview with him to sort of 1:31:30.520 --> 1:31:32.400 make sure that this was what he would he like 1:31:32.920 --> 1:31:35.400 he was trying to performance always come from a place 1:31:35.439 --> 1:31:39.800 of like this is how he shows love and loyalty 1:31:39.920 --> 1:31:45.960 to his brother is by doing this, which is like, wow, 1:31:46.040 --> 1:31:50.400 Daniel Clia is so smart like that totally like hearing 1:31:50.439 --> 1:31:53.800 that was like that totally comes through, But that isn't 1:31:53.840 --> 1:31:57.080 really in the writing like he does that, he brings that, 1:31:57.200 --> 1:31:59.840 but and it does feel it feels kind of grow 1:32:00.200 --> 1:32:04.400 especially concerning the conversation we had earlier, where the way 1:32:04.439 --> 1:32:07.400 that these scenes are shot is very telling of it. 1:32:07.560 --> 1:32:11.639 Really it seems to really the camera work kind of 1:32:11.800 --> 1:32:16.160 dwells more on the brutal murder of a disabled man. 1:32:17.040 --> 1:32:21.000 We see the two black men in this first scene 1:32:21.040 --> 1:32:24.880 to be executed very much on screen, like there's nothing 1:32:24.960 --> 1:32:29.439 held back in that. And then with white characters that 1:32:29.520 --> 1:32:33.000 we know, all of a sudden, the cameras a little shyer, 1:32:34.080 --> 1:32:36.719 and and and the fact that we don't really get 1:32:37.040 --> 1:32:41.720 the information we need with gamalogy attempt seems to make 1:32:41.760 --> 1:32:44.719 it harder. I don't know, what did you think, Michael Mitchelle, 1:32:45.160 --> 1:32:48.120 even I was telling me, I was even thinking a 1:32:48.160 --> 1:32:51.320 lot about what I think. I also love. I do think. 1:32:51.800 --> 1:32:54.120 I think the sound of sound is also really interesting, 1:32:54.160 --> 1:32:58.200 and a lot of even certain scenes, um, the certain 1:32:58.200 --> 1:33:02.040 depths seem moore see loud, rent and kind of more 1:33:02.080 --> 1:33:04.880 goals when it comes to the other stable characters, for 1:33:04.920 --> 1:33:06.960 the black characters, and and then and and and then 1:33:07.000 --> 1:33:09.439 and then and then music kind of swelling kind of 1:33:09.520 --> 1:33:11.880 you know, in a softer way when it came to 1:33:11.920 --> 1:33:14.760 like cares of something. I also noticed, um so and 1:33:14.800 --> 1:33:16.800 so I would also and so I feel like both 1:33:17.200 --> 1:33:20.000 the camera work and then the town designed together kind 1:33:20.000 --> 1:33:24.360 of um there, they're as already there West. But that 1:33:24.439 --> 1:33:27.080 was probably I do think that was a high point 1:33:27.080 --> 1:33:30.360 for me. Didn't know I think that that this undersigned 1:33:30.520 --> 1:33:32.880 what was really was the highpoint by But I do 1:33:33.000 --> 1:33:34.720 think there were certain spots where I was like, this 1:33:34.720 --> 1:33:37.719 could have been handled a little better. Yeah, yeah, because 1:33:37.720 --> 1:33:41.080 it's like, I mean, best case scenario, those scenes could 1:33:41.160 --> 1:33:45.759 have I mean just been like holy sh it mob scenes, 1:33:46.280 --> 1:33:48.200 which I think is like what they were trying to be, 1:33:48.320 --> 1:33:51.360 but they were like, yeah, the details in the cinematography 1:33:51.479 --> 1:33:55.600 and like the character development or like lack thereof, I 1:33:55.640 --> 1:33:59.080 guess made it a little tougher. I don't know. I 1:33:59.120 --> 1:34:03.639 also don't unders and mob movies, so I could be 1:34:04.000 --> 1:34:08.080 so very wrong either way. It's uh, that scene is 1:34:08.120 --> 1:34:13.280 always extremely jarring for me. But um, yeah, because that's 1:34:13.320 --> 1:34:15.519 like the first because you get the you get the 1:34:15.560 --> 1:34:19.200 big explosion pretty early on with the van explodes, but 1:34:19.280 --> 1:34:24.200 that's the first moment of like really brutal, like happening 1:34:24.479 --> 1:34:28.960 right in your face violence, graphic violence kind of things. 1:34:29.040 --> 1:34:34.360 So yeah, it's it's always like, oh god, Daniel Khaluja, 1:34:34.960 --> 1:34:39.920 oh my stars, and so my stars, why are you 1:34:40.000 --> 1:34:46.080 so mean? But does anyone have any other thoughts about 1:34:46.080 --> 1:34:49.599 the movie? I also, Sally, I really want to knowledge 1:34:49.960 --> 1:34:52.479 the true star of this film, this Olivia. I just 1:34:52.479 --> 1:34:55.800 feel like a true star. She you know, you know, 1:34:55.920 --> 1:35:00.880 she helped find you know, help find Harry. Really Veronica's 1:35:00.960 --> 1:35:07.840 motivation just a star, love her, adorable an icon. Absolutely. 1:35:08.120 --> 1:35:15.479 Um does the movie pass the Bechdel test? Yes, yes, yes, yes, 1:35:16.240 --> 1:35:20.800 here's my favorite pass. Well, well it's not. We'll we'll 1:35:20.800 --> 1:35:23.719 discuss how it's not quite a pass. But Alice said, 1:35:24.800 --> 1:35:30.320 why are you being such a bitch. You're being a sword. Veronica, 1:35:30.560 --> 1:35:33.320 don't say that word to me, Alice, it's appropriate, you're 1:35:33.360 --> 1:35:37.439 being a sword. And then Veronica is like, you're just 1:35:37.479 --> 1:35:39.680 a stupid girl with nothing in your head. And then 1:35:39.720 --> 1:35:43.760 they slap each other and they sure do. Yeah, we 1:35:43.840 --> 1:35:47.920 love Melo drama. But I would argue that that conversation 1:35:48.000 --> 1:35:54.360 does not pass because this is Veronica slut shaming Alice 1:35:54.479 --> 1:35:57.360 for having sex with a guy only one month after 1:35:57.400 --> 1:35:59.799 her husband died, so the context is still all about 1:36:00.400 --> 1:36:04.479 her husband. This new guy. Yes, but it is an 1:36:04.479 --> 1:36:11.400 interaction between women. There's no denying that. But no, it does. 1:36:11.479 --> 1:36:15.120 It does pass a lot. The widows are planning the 1:36:15.160 --> 1:36:19.559 heist together, talking a lot of like logistics stuff, things 1:36:19.560 --> 1:36:22.840 that don't have anything to do with men. Shall we 1:36:22.880 --> 1:36:27.360 get to our ratings on the nipple scale? Let's do it. 1:36:27.479 --> 1:36:30.639 Our nipple scale is zero to five nipples, based on 1:36:31.280 --> 1:36:36.800 how the movie fares from an intersectional feminist lens. I 1:36:36.840 --> 1:36:41.240 would give this I think four nipples. It's gonna get 1:36:41.600 --> 1:36:45.640 some points docked simply because of a lot of what 1:36:45.640 --> 1:36:48.639 we talked about in terms of things that the movie 1:36:48.720 --> 1:36:53.240 starts to examine or starts to explore that it doesn't 1:36:53.439 --> 1:36:56.040 there's not quite enough time to fully explore it, and 1:36:56.040 --> 1:37:00.000 then I feel like we're kind of like robbed of opportunity, 1:37:00.080 --> 1:37:05.400 used for more interesting commentary or yeah, just a closer 1:37:05.439 --> 1:37:10.640 examination of what I think this movie is trying to do. Again, 1:37:10.800 --> 1:37:16.160 it probably should have just been readapted, revitalized as another series. 1:37:16.960 --> 1:37:18.880 It's not that it doesn't work as a movie, but 1:37:18.920 --> 1:37:21.320 I think it doesn't work quite as well, just because 1:37:21.439 --> 1:37:25.439 there's it feels like there's so much crammed into this 1:37:26.000 --> 1:37:30.360 already pretty long movie. It's over two hours long. But um, yeah, 1:37:30.400 --> 1:37:34.240 there's just there's different bits of like characterization and commentary 1:37:34.360 --> 1:37:39.160 that I feel could have been handled more effectively had 1:37:39.200 --> 1:37:45.640 we been given more time with it, especially the relationships 1:37:45.680 --> 1:37:50.960 between the widows and how those grow and develop over 1:37:50.960 --> 1:37:53.960 the course of the story, especially with a character like 1:37:54.040 --> 1:37:57.400 Bell who gets introduced so late into the game and 1:37:57.439 --> 1:38:01.880 we don't really learn anything about her. So yeah, that's uh, 1:38:02.000 --> 1:38:08.920 that's my main grape with the movie. So four nipples, 1:38:09.160 --> 1:38:15.840 and I'll give one to each of the widows. Wow, 1:38:16.800 --> 1:38:18.679 I'll meet you there. I'll meet you there like three 1:38:18.680 --> 1:38:22.280 point seven five or four. This movie is really fun 1:38:22.360 --> 1:38:24.920 to watch, and it also is it's a it's a 1:38:24.920 --> 1:38:27.880 heavy romp, it's a tone poem, and yet it's a 1:38:28.080 --> 1:38:31.840 it's interesting. I would call it hetty and heavy. Yes, 1:38:32.640 --> 1:38:39.280 every h e a blank y uh, substitute any consonant. 1:38:39.400 --> 1:38:46.280 It's that. But yeah, I I really like this update 1:38:46.479 --> 1:38:51.879 on the format. I love a Steve McQueen Gillian Flynn 1:38:51.880 --> 1:38:56.519 collaboration that was really cool. I that the performances in 1:38:56.520 --> 1:38:59.640 this movie are like incorrect, like the cast, Like just 1:39:00.000 --> 1:39:02.000 watched a couple of round tables with the cast and 1:39:02.000 --> 1:39:06.240 you're like, hold on, this cast is ridiculous. Like it's 1:39:06.320 --> 1:39:09.320 so I like, I feel like we didn't get to 1:39:09.320 --> 1:39:11.800 talk about Brian Tyree Henry very much, and I just 1:39:11.840 --> 1:39:16.400 like he's incredible. He's so good. I know he's not 1:39:16.400 --> 1:39:18.559 one of the widows and all the widows are incredible, 1:39:18.600 --> 1:39:21.559 but I was like, Brian Tyree Henry doesn't need an 1:39:21.560 --> 1:39:24.400 oscar like yesterday anyway, he had an incredible year right 1:39:24.439 --> 1:39:28.320 yere He's yeah, yeah, he's like he had like a 1:39:28.320 --> 1:39:31.759 wild eighteen. He was in like everything that year because 1:39:31.800 --> 1:39:35.320 he was also he's he's in Um was into this 1:39:35.400 --> 1:39:38.559 Better Verse that year because he voices Miles, his dad 1:39:38.640 --> 1:39:42.360 in that movie. Yes, yes, he was Real Street that 1:39:42.400 --> 1:39:46.040 year as well. Yeah, he's Oh my god, I really 1:39:46.080 --> 1:39:49.160 like him. What else was he in that year? He 1:39:49.280 --> 1:39:51.519 was in? Oh, I have no idea what that movie 1:39:51.520 --> 1:39:53.840 he is. He was in a movie called Hotel Artemis. 1:39:54.160 --> 1:39:57.439 Oh I remember that coming out? Yeah, well he was 1:39:57.479 --> 1:40:02.240 in it. Whatever. Anyway, it's good for so. Yes, I like, 1:40:02.800 --> 1:40:06.439 I totally agree with what you were just saying, Caitlin, 1:40:06.479 --> 1:40:08.320 and what you were saying earlier, Michael Michelle. Where this 1:40:08.360 --> 1:40:11.120 movie you could argue, maybe like bites off a little 1:40:11.160 --> 1:40:13.600 more than it can chew with the sheer number of 1:40:13.680 --> 1:40:17.839 issues it's trying to address where I don't know. I mean, ultimately, 1:40:17.880 --> 1:40:21.720 I'm glad that it tries it. We don't quite have 1:40:21.840 --> 1:40:25.840 the run time to meet every single arc, but I 1:40:25.880 --> 1:40:29.520 mean the fact that it's a heist movie that addresses 1:40:29.720 --> 1:40:35.160 racial injustice and class injustice and misogyny. It tackles a 1:40:35.280 --> 1:40:38.240 hell of a lot in two hours, and it all 1:40:38.800 --> 1:40:42.400 makes sense in the story and it's just it it 1:40:42.760 --> 1:40:46.240 comes together. It's it's really good. Um, most of the 1:40:46.240 --> 1:40:48.640 issues I have with this movie is just stories that 1:40:48.680 --> 1:40:51.160 it doesn't quite have the time to follow through on. 1:40:51.280 --> 1:40:53.439 It's not really what they do that I have an 1:40:53.439 --> 1:40:55.640 issue with. That's what they didn't have time to do. 1:40:55.880 --> 1:40:57.559 I wish. I mean, we should have known more about 1:40:57.560 --> 1:40:59.960 the Mannings, We should have known more about Michelle read 1:41:00.000 --> 1:41:04.640 Egas and Cynthia Rivo, et cetera. Yeah, so yeah, I'll 1:41:04.720 --> 1:41:07.600 let's go for it. And I will also give a 1:41:07.880 --> 1:41:12.800 nipple a piece to the widows. Nice Michael, Michelle, what 1:41:12.800 --> 1:41:16.760 about you? I am also going to give it for um, 1:41:16.800 --> 1:41:20.200 you know, kind of like you all said everything, everything 1:41:20.360 --> 1:41:24.360 that they attempted. I really I really appreciate and enjoyed it, 1:41:24.360 --> 1:41:27.200 and pretty I loved it as a work. It's I'm 1:41:27.200 --> 1:41:29.760 pretty be honest. I think it was my favorite of 1:41:29.800 --> 1:41:34.120 that year and I think also my personal favorite hist movie. Um. 1:41:34.600 --> 1:41:37.000 I just I think it's it's just it's it's really grounded. 1:41:37.240 --> 1:41:40.080 I think I think all the women feel like real 1:41:40.080 --> 1:41:42.920 women and they don't feel like our types of women 1:41:42.920 --> 1:41:44.840 for the sake of like woman hasn't been a movie, 1:41:44.880 --> 1:41:49.000 which is nice. Um totally, and I love I love 1:41:49.040 --> 1:41:52.360 the all four of them are soul specific in each 1:41:52.400 --> 1:41:54.360 of their bast wood and and and that they're all 1:41:54.360 --> 1:41:59.400 dealing with with with with very specific marital problems. Um, 1:41:58.720 --> 1:42:01.840 you know, my graphs are the same that you all have. 1:42:02.080 --> 1:42:05.400 You know that I wish that the great thing that 1:42:05.400 --> 1:42:06.920 they that they had given us kind of head head 1:42:07.040 --> 1:42:09.240 any more time to be able to kind of kind 1:42:09.240 --> 1:42:12.320 of blosom kind of um with the run time. But 1:42:12.360 --> 1:42:14.680 I'm so glad that it's a second tone, you know, 1:42:14.760 --> 1:42:18.000 and then and then and then it exists, and um, 1:42:18.120 --> 1:42:21.360 and I'm also really pissed that it didn't get more 1:42:21.400 --> 1:42:25.439 more than Awards season. Um, yes, absolutely, because I got 1:42:25.439 --> 1:42:29.080 completely snubbed by the Golden Globes and the Academy, right, 1:42:29.280 --> 1:42:32.360 is that remembering it? Right? Yeah? Completely. I was just 1:42:32.760 --> 1:42:34.480 I was like, so, we're just not going to acknowledge 1:42:34.479 --> 1:42:38.360 that this magic. It's fine. I'm not better at five 1:42:39.200 --> 1:42:45.519 okay over it kind of But yeah, So I love 1:42:45.560 --> 1:42:48.000 this movie. I wish it could have given us more, 1:42:48.080 --> 1:42:50.720 but um, I kind of explored more and kind of 1:42:50.720 --> 1:42:52.880 given us more death. But I'm glad to existed. So 1:42:53.960 --> 1:42:57.880 I'll give it four stars. Nice, amazing, Well, thank you 1:42:57.920 --> 1:43:00.280 so much for joining us. Yeah, thank you. This was 1:43:00.320 --> 1:43:02.320 such a blast. Thank you so much for having me. 1:43:02.880 --> 1:43:05.720 I love you. I really appreciate your working. It was 1:43:06.000 --> 1:43:09.720 really fun to talk to you all. Likewise, thanks for 1:43:09.760 --> 1:43:13.200 bringing us this movie. This was so fun. Where can 1:43:13.280 --> 1:43:16.040 we find more of your work? Where can we follow you? 1:43:16.160 --> 1:43:19.160 Plug away? Yeah, so I am. You can follow me 1:43:19.320 --> 1:43:22.160 on Twitter and Instagram, on on on Twitter, on films 1:43:22.200 --> 1:43:27.200 and films, fe m M E s N Films, and 1:43:27.240 --> 1:43:30.240 then on Twitter, I'm Michael Michelle. So I'm Michael Michelle, 1:43:30.280 --> 1:43:32.600 and then with three e's at the end, um, and 1:43:32.640 --> 1:43:36.479 then I've worked in teen, Vogue and Vogue and L 1:43:36.920 --> 1:43:41.040 and Harvard Bazaar, UM and Nylon, and you can just 1:43:41.160 --> 1:43:43.880 I'm Michael Michelle at all of those sites. And I'm 1:43:43.880 --> 1:43:46.840 just feeling up thing around the internet, you know, and 1:43:47.400 --> 1:43:51.960 um in school, uh, trying to get a film degree 1:43:52.080 --> 1:43:57.040 and yep, so very relatable stuff. So we're just here 1:43:57.120 --> 1:43:59.880 trying to make art, review art. I'm just here on 1:44:00.040 --> 1:44:04.479 in this hell. Yes, And you can find us in 1:44:04.560 --> 1:44:07.160 all the usual places. You can find us on Instagram 1:44:07.400 --> 1:44:10.080 and Twitter, at bachtel cast, you can find us on 1:44:10.120 --> 1:44:15.120 our Patreon ak Matreon at patreon dot com, slash backtel Cast, 1:44:15.120 --> 1:44:19.120 where you get to bonus episodes a month for simply 1:44:19.640 --> 1:44:23.320 five dollars a month. Wow, in addition to our almost 1:44:23.320 --> 1:44:30.440 one hundred episode back catalog. Wow. Incredible, brave of us. 1:44:32.000 --> 1:44:36.200 And you can also grab some merch at our merch store, 1:44:36.320 --> 1:44:40.320 t public dot com slash the Bechtel Cast. There's all 1:44:40.400 --> 1:44:43.880 kinds of good ease, so go grab them. I haven't 1:44:43.960 --> 1:44:48.280 heard the word goodies used in casual conversation and many moods. 1:44:48.360 --> 1:44:53.679 Thank you for that any time. And uh, Jamie, we've 1:44:54.080 --> 1:44:59.280 successfully pulled off this podcast that we've all done together. 1:44:59.439 --> 1:45:01.920 So now come we kill Liam Neeson. So we can 1:45:02.000 --> 1:45:06.680 kill Liam Neeson and now we have five million dollars 1:45:07.080 --> 1:45:10.480 with Bay