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Speaker 1: Good morning, peeps, and welcome to ok F Daily with

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Speaker 1: me your Girl, Danielle Moody pre recording from the Home Bunker, Folks,

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Speaker 1: I am very excited to kick off wok f's Cookout

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Speaker 1: week by bringing on some of our favorite past guests

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Speaker 1: to have a conversation this week on liberty, on freedom

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Speaker 1: and justice and what that means to them and what

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Speaker 1: it means to us in this country right now as

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Speaker 1: we are celebrating the July fourth Independence holiday this week,

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Speaker 1: you know, and you will hear from me later in

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Speaker 1: the week for my solo episode, but I will tell

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Speaker 1: you as we kick off this week that I, like

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Speaker 1: many Americans, like many Americans that are people of color,

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Speaker 1: that are queer, that are from marginalized communities, have a

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Speaker 1: complicated feeling when it comes to celebrating the fourth of

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Speaker 1: July or acknowledging the fourth of July. I think that

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Speaker 1: in a lot of ways, America likes to have it

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Speaker 1: both ways right where we want to celebrate our founding

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Speaker 1: fathers and breaking away from the oppression of British rule

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Speaker 1: and not wanting to pay taxes and wanting to be

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Speaker 1: religious zealous and coming to this new land and creating

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Speaker 1: a never before seen democratic government at the same time,

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Speaker 1: right at the same time, the founders of this nation

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Speaker 1: came to occupied land, murdered, raped, and tortured the indigenous

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Speaker 1: population that welcomed them, try to enslave them, but they

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Speaker 1: knew too much about the land, so they would later

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Speaker 1: develop the Transatlantic slave trade to bring in enslaved people

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Speaker 1: in shackles who would then build their dream. And so

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Speaker 1: when I think about the truth, right, which is what

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Speaker 1: we've been denied throughout our K through twelve education system,

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Speaker 1: and only if you went to a liberal arts college

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Speaker 1: would you then maybe have gotten some glimmers of the

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Speaker 1: truth right for your credit that you needed to graduate.

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Speaker 1: You might have taken a more in depth history of

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Speaker 1: the United States. But other than that, you're pretty much

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Speaker 1: walking around with your head filled of fairy tales and

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Speaker 1: whitewashing of who the founding fathers were, how this nation

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Speaker 1: came to be, and on whose backs that happened. And

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Speaker 1: I would love to say, well, it doesn't really matter

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Speaker 1: how it all started, It matters how it ends. You

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Speaker 1: know that old adage, Well that's not actually the truth,

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Speaker 1: because we continue in this country to elect politicians that

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Speaker 1: create policies that have steeped in the vestitudes of slavery

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Speaker 1: and Jim Crow, of racism and discrimination that we have

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Speaker 1: never actually dealt with. So when we get to this day,

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Speaker 1: this week of celebration for millions of Americans in this country,

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Speaker 1: the questions that we need to ask I pose to

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Speaker 1: my guests this week. They are important questions that are

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Speaker 1: worth unpacking, and not just this week during America's quote

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Speaker 1: unquote independence, but really every day as we forge a

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Speaker 1: path in an increasingly authoritarian, fascist environment where we are

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Speaker 1: fighting to hold on to the idea of democracy. But

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Speaker 1: if we're really honest with ourselves, democracy has only been

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Speaker 1: experienced by the white few. So coming up next, I'm

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Speaker 1: very excited to welcome back to wok F Daily my

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Speaker 1: friend the Reverend markin Thompson, who is the host of

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Speaker 1: Make It Plain, to get into a conversation about how

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Speaker 1: he thinks about this holiday as somebody that has spent

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Speaker 1: their career fighting for civil rights and justice and has

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Speaker 1: been shoulder to shoulder with some of the many greats

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Speaker 1: that you know. I hope that you enjoyed this conversation

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Speaker 1: between Mark and I, Folks. I am excited to welcome

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Speaker 1: back to wok F daily after a very long time,

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Speaker 1: too long in my humble opinion, the Reverend Mark Thompson,

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Speaker 1: host of Make It Plain, Mark, it is fourth of

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Speaker 1: July week, the week that America, or better yet, I

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Speaker 1: should say, white Americans celebrate the independence of America from

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Speaker 1: British rule. And I don't know about you, but I

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Speaker 1: have had a very complicated relationship with the fourth of July.

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Speaker 1: And you know, while on this show, we had a

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Speaker 1: really in depth conversation around the Juneteenth holiday, which I

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Speaker 1: also have issue with the federal government of the United

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Speaker 1: States making June tenth the holiday, but yet banning curriculum

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Speaker 1: that would talk about said holiday. So I just want

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Speaker 1: to open up with how are you feeling and how

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Speaker 1: do you feel about the fourth of July as a whole?

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Speaker 2: Well, good to see Danielle, me to be with you

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Speaker 2: as always, and let me just say that the fourth

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Speaker 2: of July is usually recognized on my show making playing

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Speaker 2: with the reading in its entirety of Frederick Douglas's speech

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Speaker 2: What to the Slave is the fourth of July? It

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Speaker 2: takes I guess over an hour almost two hours for

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Speaker 2: me to read it. That I do it every year,

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Speaker 2: and those who would like for me to call him

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Speaker 2: on the phone and read it over the phone for

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Speaker 2: them for two hours. Feel free off of that to

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Speaker 2: friends and family like no, why.

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Speaker 1: They don't do you got to do is sit and listen?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, no, that's two things all for friends. I'll

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Speaker 2: need to read the whole Frederick Douglas speech over the phone.

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Speaker 2: If you want to set up a personal zoom, we

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Speaker 2: can do it. We can do it right here, right now,

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Speaker 2: if you like.

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Speaker 1: Because I have done this. I have done this on

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Speaker 1: my show on my show as well, because I had

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Speaker 1: been inspired and I would tell people as I was

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Speaker 1: doing it that I was inspired by you. I was

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Speaker 1: also inspired. Roland Martin had done it on his show

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Speaker 1: where he would get a bunch of different folks to

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Speaker 1: read pieces of it and plug that in on his show.

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Speaker 1: But I was inspired by you.

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Speaker 2: But it's different. He does different people. It won no

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Speaker 2: group with French Douglas. He did it his own.

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Speaker 1: Wait, he didn't have the commodoors.

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Speaker 2: He did it much right, that's right. So I do it.

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Speaker 2: The two things I offer people, you know, just as

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Speaker 2: personal gifts. I'll either read that speech over the phone

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Speaker 2: or I can actually perform the entire porgin best opera

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Speaker 2: over the phone, seeing all the parts. So whatever whatever

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Speaker 2: you want, like, I can do that for you. So

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Speaker 2: this is the tradition that we often engage in, and

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Speaker 2: I think it's important. What's interesting is people are always learning,

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Speaker 2: and as often as I've done it, people are still

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Speaker 2: surprised by what they hear, and it's like a renewal.

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Speaker 2: So just as much as holidays and annual events are

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Speaker 2: for celebrations, they're also reminders, really benchmarks for what we're

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Speaker 2: dealing with and what's going on. Not a soul marched

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Speaker 2: in twenty twenty for a Juneteenth holiday, not one single soul. Yep.

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Speaker 2: Somewhere along the way, a deal was cut to I

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Speaker 2: guess play. I guess they thought they would play everyone

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Speaker 2: by offering this holiday. But I don't think that's the fact.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's nice, we'll take it, but that ain't

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Speaker 2: what we want. We still do not have freedom, liberty

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Speaker 2: and justice in this country, and and right now it's

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Speaker 2: is if we're up against another group of people who

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Speaker 2: happen to be white nationalists who feel the same way,

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Speaker 2: which is absurd. It's absurd, and that's problematic because what

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Speaker 2: that says is that their demands somehow have weight or

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Speaker 2: significance enough to overshadow ours, and they shouldn't. They do

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Speaker 2: have free they Donald Trump was president, nobody that did

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Speaker 2: not not happen. But have we seen as African Americans?

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Speaker 2: Is June teenth really our freedom day? No? Because we're

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Speaker 2: even There's a story came out the other day. I

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Speaker 2: got to find this into I might find before we

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Speaker 2: hang up, because I want to quote it. Do people

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Speaker 2: know that even after June nineteenth in Dalveston, Texas, even

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Speaker 2: beyond that, there were folks still enslaved in up here

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Speaker 2: on the east coast in New Jersey, Okay. So the announcement,

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Speaker 2: the belated announcement, did not change the conditions of what

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Speaker 2: we're dealing with, and they still haven't changed, because the

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Speaker 2: vestiges of enslavement still exist, particularly with police violence. We

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Speaker 2: just celebrated the one year anniversary of Jalen Walker's ascension,

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Speaker 2: shot forty six times by the Akron police. Ninety bullets

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Speaker 2: they shot six point seven seconds. Not a single officer

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Speaker 2: charged or disciplined. We just asked the DOJ to get

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Speaker 2: involved in that case. We saw our sister down in

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Speaker 2: Florida who was shot by a neighbor, ye under that

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Speaker 2: so called castle doctrine, and we are still subject to lynchings.

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Speaker 2: We still have mass incarceration, We still have issues with employment,

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Speaker 2: I mean unemployments. Employment's gotten better, but it's not where

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Speaker 2: it ought to be. Where is the access to capital

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Speaker 2: for our own businesses? Where is the access to resources

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Speaker 2: for us to have owned homes in a middle class

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Speaker 2: country that where wealth is built upon property ownership, We

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Speaker 2: still don't have that. We still are not free, and

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Speaker 2: firmative action under threat, voting rights still under threat, So no,

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Speaker 2: we ain't free. What to us is the fourth of

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Speaker 2: their lives.

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Speaker 1: There's a video that is going around Mark two of

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Speaker 1: a white woman who says, you know, the blacks they

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Speaker 1: have a month, they had a president. What do we have?

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Speaker 1: I think that June? Because she was being asked about

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Speaker 1: what her feelings were on Juneteenth, and she said that

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Speaker 1: she thought Juneteenth was bulls because the blacks have everything?

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Speaker 1: What do the whites have? The clip has gone viral

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Speaker 1: because it was just so obscene. And I recognize though

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Speaker 1: that this is what white people who are indoctrinated into

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Speaker 1: the Republican cult, who follow Magadam and Donald Trump. This

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Speaker 1: is what he has them believe they are the aggrieved.

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Speaker 1: Their lie, it's woe is me. And so when we

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Speaker 1: are back in this space where it's like they scream

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Speaker 1: white power and then they're like these fragile snowflakes that

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Speaker 1: can't walk past let's say, a rainbow display and target

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Speaker 1: without destroying it. They are these people that are screaming

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Speaker 1: about their power. But then like, can't you know, can't

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Speaker 1: imagine Juneteenth as a national holiday. So I'm like, how

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Speaker 1: do we rectify their lie? As you're saying, because I mean,

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Speaker 1: you've been doing this work a long time, and I

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Speaker 1: got to say, Mark, I feel like we are on

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Speaker 1: a backslide of all backslides. It's not just our democracy

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Speaker 1: that's backsliding. It's the acceptance, it's the appreciation, it is

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Speaker 1: all of the incremental gains that I feel like the

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Speaker 1: black community has had, that queer community has had are

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Speaker 1: all being clawed back. And so I'm like, how do

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Speaker 1: we rectify this lie? Do we just continue combating it

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Speaker 1: or is there something else that we are missing?

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Speaker 2: So, first of all, we were good until you said,

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Speaker 2: I've been out here a long time, all right. I

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Speaker 2: was at a Juneteenth event and do you know that

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Speaker 2: you had the nerve to introduce your brother saying I've

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Speaker 2: been on the battlefield for forty years. Then somebody ran

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Speaker 2: an article since you were, somebody ran an article talking

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Speaker 2: about how something I did thirty years ago. None of

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Speaker 2: that is possible. I'm not even thirty yet, so I

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Speaker 2: don't even know how. So you're going to take that back,

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Speaker 2: edited out the thing, y'all check it out, take that

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Speaker 2: out that whole long time. STI let's be clear too,

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Speaker 2: it is not that complicated. The reason white women you

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Speaker 2: described and other people make these statements, Danielle is because

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Speaker 2: social media allows it and encourages it. As we talked

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Speaker 2: about before, the algorithm promotes conflict and foolishness. But think

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Speaker 2: back before you had that, people didn't make those caps.

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Speaker 2: So this she goes viral and everybody's talking about it.

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Speaker 2: We had one president out of forty five forty six presidents,

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Speaker 2: all right, and several of those presidents raped enslaved black

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Speaker 2: women and had children by them. One such president may unconfirmed,

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Speaker 2: even being an ancestor of mine. We're trying to find

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Speaker 2: that out. So my family name, my grandmother's family name

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Speaker 2: is is Poke. For some reason, all right. So the

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Speaker 2: point is that people can say all that stuff, but

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Speaker 2: it's not real. And yes, we are getting pushed back

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Speaker 2: in every way when it comes to anything we think

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Speaker 2: we have gained, yes, and it's so bad. What's left

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Speaker 2: from the first black president? What do we have to

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Speaker 2: show for it? Other than the Affordable Healthcare Act? But

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Speaker 2: other than that, again, affirmative action has been under threat.

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Speaker 2: You know, we have to brace ourselves every time something

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Speaker 2: goes to the Supreme Court. Women's bodily autonomy, that's not

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Speaker 2: a white woman's issue. The roots of women's loss of

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Speaker 2: bodily autonomy was during the period of enslavement, and that's

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Speaker 2: where it was codified and ratified. Some African Americans legal

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Speaker 2: scholars have even said the thirteenth Amendment is the argument

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Speaker 2: to have women's bodily autonomy restored. There is nothing that

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Speaker 2: has happened here in this country. There has been no

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Speaker 2: benefit that white America has gained. There has been no

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Speaker 2: success that white America has achieved and enjoyed that was

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Speaker 2: not upon the backs of our enslaved ancestors and beyond,

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Speaker 2: because even after you get out of the period of enslavement,

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Speaker 2: and I just want to I got this thing. I

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Speaker 2: found this article. Apparently New Jersey. It was December eighteen

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Speaker 2: sixty five where they were still enslave. And it wasn't

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Speaker 2: until January twenty third, eighteen sixty six that the Governor

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Speaker 2: of New Jersey signed the constitutional amendment to enslaver in

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Speaker 2: the state of New Jersey. So let's be clear by this.

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Speaker 2: So we need another holiday January twenty third, That's what

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Speaker 2: I'm saying. The holidays alone, don't get it. They're symbolic,

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Speaker 2: But Juneteenth wasn't the end, all right. Having said that,

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Speaker 2: knowing what we know and knowing how often our rights

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Speaker 2: are subject to review or as Chief Justice robbers would

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Speaker 2: it started when they first goutted the Voting Rights Act sunset,

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Speaker 2: there's still much more to be done, and we can't stop, y'all.

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Speaker 2: We this Fourth of July holiday must be used as

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Speaker 2: a way to organize and galvanize really every day of

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Speaker 2: the year. We have a sacred obligation to do segregation.

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Speaker 2: Jim Crow White folks benefited from that. Our inability to

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Speaker 2: even be in the process that built the middle class,

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Speaker 2: homesteading gi Bill, all of those things, Our inability to

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Speaker 2: be there to reap those benefits from those programs is

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Speaker 2: what lifted the white middle class up. Now, what Bishop

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Speaker 2: Barber would say is that in rebuilding Doctor King's Poor

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Speaker 2: People's Campaign, which is very important, we have to deal

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Speaker 2: with poverty and the majority of white of people in

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Speaker 2: America who are in poverty are white. The middle class

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Speaker 2: is no longer real middle class. It is a working class,

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Speaker 2: a working poor. Most of us live in paycheck to paycheck.

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Speaker 2: So what's up with that? America is a mess because

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Speaker 2: not only are the provisions that built the original middle class,

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Speaker 2: not only are they obsolete now and need to be

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Speaker 2: reinvented or renewed or resurrected. We as African Americans never

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Speaker 2: were in that mix, so we were never caught up. Right.

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Speaker 2: So white folks are behind financially economically, we're two or

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Speaker 2: three times behind them. And that's why America cannot get

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Speaker 2: past the place that it's in these cultural, ideological exclusivity

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Speaker 2: and racist debates. All right now. Our America's industry's greatest commodity.

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Speaker 2: I was talking to somebody that I've guess what, y'all,

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Speaker 2: I'm doing some international stuff. You know, I got to

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Speaker 2: expand it's not the UN talking to people people said me,

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Speaker 2: how come we have high speed trains? And y'all know,

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Speaker 2: I said, ignorant and trifling because this country is not

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Speaker 2: trying to do that. What would that do for the

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Speaker 2: folks need jobs? White folks need jobs?

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Speaker 1: Yep?

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Speaker 2: What would it mean to build that kind of infrastructure?

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Speaker 2: How many jobs would that create? How many businesses would

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Speaker 2: have to be built around high speed rail stations? Talking

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Speaker 2: presidential now, y'all, I'm not running president, but I'm saying,

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Speaker 2: why am I thinking about that? And nobody else is

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Speaker 2: trying to do that? And they're supposed to be the

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Speaker 2: ones who have this American exceptionalism and American dream. All

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Speaker 2: of that is a myth. This is about holding on,

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Speaker 2: in James Baldwin's words, to the last white country the

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Speaker 2: world will ever see.

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Speaker 1: You know what's interesting the other and I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: that you brought up the UN the other day. I'm watching,

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Speaker 1: you know, some videos about infrastructure in Japan, right, and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking and I'm saying, Japan and China they're living

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Speaker 1: in the future, right, Like you're talking about you know,

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Speaker 1: four D built boards and high speed trains everywhere that

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Speaker 1: are like at what would be the regular rate is

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Speaker 1: what our excella first class looks like. But that's just

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Speaker 1: like their baseline for their high speed trains that go

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Speaker 1: all over the country. Right. And I'm sitting here and

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Speaker 1: I said, howly is it that these people, these countries

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Speaker 1: even look at the United States and say that we're

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Speaker 1: quote unquote power and a force, Because all you have

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Speaker 1: to do is take a plane, ride over here, walk around,

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Speaker 1: go into our subway stations, take a bus, take a bridge,

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Speaker 1: and you're like, we're hanging on to nineteenth century beginning

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Speaker 1: of the twentieth century infrastructure, right, but saying that we

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Speaker 1: are a world power. And I'm just like, I purposefully

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Speaker 1: believe Mark that the reason why we don't move forward

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Speaker 1: with real aggressive buildout is because what why Americans want

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Speaker 1: in this country is a permanent underclass, right, Because that's

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Speaker 1: how capitalism, that's how white supremacy will continue to move

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Speaker 1: is if there is a permanent underclass, people that are

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Speaker 1: under educated or not educated at all, people that are

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Speaker 1: desperate and going on paycheck to paycheck. Right, you can't

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Speaker 1: imagine and be living in and thinking about futurism if

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Speaker 1: you can barely like afford what is in front of you.

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Speaker 2: No, you're absolutely right, and that is what is shameful.

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Speaker 2: You mentioned the Asella. The Acella, y'all, is like it

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Speaker 2: is not even a high speed train. They just take

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Speaker 2: out some stops, Yes, exactly. Urnament is different from the

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Speaker 2: regular train. So you're right, there's a need to keep

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Speaker 2: people confused and subjugated. We invite people. Also another important

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Speaker 2: speech for people to listen to you, not just Frederick Douglas,

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Speaker 2: but what doctor King said at the end to the

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Speaker 2: march from some of Montgomery and the need for this

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Speaker 2: underclass and the need to keep the black and white

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Speaker 2: underclass fighting yep with each other, yep. And that is

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Speaker 2: what is still going on. And America is even more

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Speaker 2: of a mess now because look, you got a president

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Speaker 2: with over thirty counts, thirty felon accounts, yep, for committing espionage. Now,

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Speaker 2: nowhere in the history world has anyone ever been acquitted

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Speaker 2: when they've been charge of espionage. And nowhere in the

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Speaker 2: history world has someone not gone to jail. Correct I

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Speaker 2: liken this too. See we're still in America under the

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Speaker 2: throes of racism and white supremacy. So what happened during segregation, well, no,

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Speaker 2: we can go back before that y'all saw django, right,

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Speaker 2: and Samuel Jackson, who should have won an Oscar for

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Speaker 2: playing the quintessential Uncle Tom playing Clarence Thomas and movie

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Speaker 2: What did he say when when jang on them showed

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Speaker 2: up and they go, well, where's he gonna sleep? Sleep

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Speaker 2: in bed? Who's gonna burn the sheets? Right? That's what

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Speaker 2: he asked on the porch. That really happened. Lena Horne

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Speaker 2: used to tell stories when she would perform at venues

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Speaker 2: and stay at fancy hotels, they had to burn the

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Speaker 2: sheets after she left. So when people talk about the

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Speaker 2: first black president, y'all got us back for that. You

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Speaker 2: didn't burn the sheets in the White House. Maybe you did,

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Speaker 2: but you're burning down the country. Come on, the country

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Speaker 2: is soiled. The country is a metaphor for the sheets

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Speaker 2: they used to burn during segregation when we slept in

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Speaker 2: the sheets. So you're gonna burn down the whole country.

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Speaker 2: We now know that that Trump didn't just boycott the inauguration,

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Speaker 2: the traditional ride alongside the incoming president with the outgoing president.

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Speaker 2: He laid back in the cut at the White House

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Speaker 2: to pack boxes yep, to take tomorrow lago with him. Now,

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Speaker 2: what do you do with classified documents? Anybody else, any

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Speaker 2: one of us eat white folks. LL y'all, let's take

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Speaker 2: some with us. What we're gonna take. Just take some china,

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Speaker 2: some silverware, or some paintings. I mean, that's nice. We

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Speaker 2: put that in the house, or sell it hot whatever.

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Speaker 2: Nobody takes classified documents. I can't find a white person

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Speaker 2: who takes classified doctcause what do you do with them?

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Speaker 2: What do you do with classified documents? Nobody will see that, Hey, Danne,

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Speaker 2: what you're doing for the fourth House? Of these classified documents? No,

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Speaker 2: you can't sell them unless you are in the professional

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Speaker 2: espionage industry. You don't know anybody. I don't know anybody.

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Speaker 2: Just ask anybody listening, do you want does anybody know

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Speaker 2: anybody who would know who to sell classified documents? To

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Speaker 2: know all the people in that industry. Know you have

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Speaker 2: other countries that potentially have had our allies, your US allies,

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Speaker 2: not our allies. But because ain't mine us allies who

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Speaker 2: potentially have had operatives lives in danger or taken out yep,

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Speaker 2: because of what Trump stole. YEP. The grand the jury

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Speaker 2: on this case is going to probably have to go

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Speaker 2: into a skiff. That's how deep this is yep. That

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Speaker 2: has not happened with another president before them, another president's

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Speaker 2: hanky panky, like Richard Nixon. He stopped the Vietnam Peace Accords,

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Speaker 2: all right to hurt Lynd Johnson because he thought it

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Speaker 2: was gonna run against him in sixty eight. But that's

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Speaker 2: burning the country down, that is destroying it. Trump is

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Speaker 2: willing to destroy the country over this debate, and this

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Speaker 2: could be the first time. They say it might even

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Speaker 2: have to result in Biden pardoning Trump because you just

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Speaker 2: can't have a president go to prison over the espionageac well,

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Speaker 2: why not. But if you allow that to happen, if

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Speaker 2: you allow him to be excused, then you're burning the

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Speaker 2: country down. So this is really where we are, yep.

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Speaker 2: And it's a very very dangerous place us to be.

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Speaker 2: And don't think for one minute other countries aren't looking

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Speaker 2: around the world saying what is happening. People worried about

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Speaker 2: a coup.

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Speaker 1: In Russia, and I'm like, there's been a coup that's

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Speaker 1: been underway in the United States for the last seven years,

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Speaker 1: and it's not making the same kind of headlines.

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Speaker 2: And it might be worse than a coup because the

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Speaker 2: coup is straight up you have the protagonists you had here.

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Speaker 2: It's sort of a soft coup and you don't see it,

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Speaker 2: and so it just kind of gradually and you look

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Speaker 2: up and it's done. But it is. It's and and

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Speaker 2: Elon Musk and Twitter help it with what Twitter has

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Speaker 2: been doing, and the people has been promoting, all the

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Speaker 2: algorithms help it with the people that they promote. So

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Speaker 2: America is in a in a in a bad place,

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Speaker 2: and people need to wake up. The hope for America

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Speaker 2: lies once again, the salvation of America lies in continuing

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Speaker 2: what doctor King was doing. When they took him out.

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Speaker 2: They took him out for doing it. But we need

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Speaker 2: to get back to that.

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Speaker 1: Reverend Mark Thompson, as always, you bring such clear, stellar

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Speaker 1: analysis and questions that we all need to be reckoning

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Speaker 1: with because we are not in a good place. We're

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Speaker 1: not in a good place as a community, We're not

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Speaker 1: in a good place as a country, We're not in

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Speaker 1: a good place as a globe, as global citizens. And

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Speaker 1: I think that it is upon all of us not

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Speaker 1: only to reflect on this week, but to reflect overall

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Speaker 1: who are we and where are we headed? Because if

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Speaker 1: we don't like it, we're the only people that can

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Speaker 1: change it, and that is the absolute truth. My friend.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for making the time for WOKF.

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Speaker 1: I always appreciate you.

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Speaker 2: Thank you for having me happy fourth of their lives folks.

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Speaker 1: That is it for me today. Dear friends on Woke

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Speaker 1: af AS always, power to the people and to all

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Speaker 1: the people power, get woke and stay woke as fuck.