WEBVTT - Carlyle Group Co-Founder David Rubenstein Talks New Book On Presidential History

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news.

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<v Speaker 2>We spend so much time talking about the horse race,

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<v Speaker 2>the policy proposals, of course, the debate this week, some

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<v Speaker 2>of the wild rhetoric that we heard on the stump

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<v Speaker 2>in the last forty eight hours. We don't always think

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<v Speaker 2>about the job that they're working for. And the latest

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<v Speaker 2>from David Rubinstein, the highest Calling. We've both been curled

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<v Speaker 2>up with this book for a minute conversations on the

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<v Speaker 2>American presidency. You start reading about all of the presidents,

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<v Speaker 2>including by the way, Joe Biden and Donald Trump, and

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<v Speaker 2>I'm left with the same question, why would anyone ever

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<v Speaker 2>want this job?

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<v Speaker 3>Yeah, very difficult one, of course, perhaps the most difficult

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<v Speaker 3>to attain, at least in American politics, in the way

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<v Speaker 3>in which this republic operates, and of course one that

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<v Speaker 3>may be held differently, viewed differently by the people who

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<v Speaker 3>have inhabited the office as you look over the history

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<v Speaker 3>of the now forty six presidents, and twenty of them

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<v Speaker 3>featured in this new book. And we're very lucky to

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<v Speaker 3>have David Rubinstein, the author here with us. He of course,

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<v Speaker 3>is co founder and co chair of the Carlisle Grouve,

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<v Speaker 3>also a host on Bloomberg Television in addition to being

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<v Speaker 3>an author of this book. Always a busy man. Thank

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<v Speaker 3>you for making some time for us here in studio

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<v Speaker 3>in Washington. It's worth pointing out while this is in

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<v Speaker 3>part titled Conversations on the American Presidency, it's also conversations

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<v Speaker 3>with a number of former and even the current president.

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<v Speaker 3>You spoke with both Donald Trump and Joe Biden when

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<v Speaker 3>writing this book. We talk a lot about the contrast

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<v Speaker 3>between these two men. Did you pick up on how

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<v Speaker 3>they made differently view the office of the Presiden's here

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<v Speaker 3>with there more overlap than you expected.

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<v Speaker 4>They do have different views on it and how to

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<v Speaker 4>do it. I interviewed both of them on separate interviews,

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<v Speaker 4>with Joe Biden in the Oval Office for an hour alone,

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<v Speaker 4>and I've known him for a long time, and I

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<v Speaker 4>think he felt comfortable with me, and I've had a

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<v Speaker 4>lot of interactions with him over the years. I've interviewed

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<v Speaker 4>Donald Trump before. In this particular case, he was getting

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<v Speaker 4>ready for a trial, and so it wasn't exactly in

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<v Speaker 4>the Oval Office that I was doing it, but I

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<v Speaker 4>had had dinner with him not too long earlier and

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<v Speaker 4>had gotten ready for the interview, and they both have

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<v Speaker 4>different perspectives on the job. And I might call it

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<v Speaker 4>the highest calling because this is clearly the most important

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<v Speaker 4>job in the world. Since Woodrow Wilson went to Paris

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<v Speaker 4>to negotiate the Treaty of Versilles, it's been clear that

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<v Speaker 4>the President United States is the most important person in

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<v Speaker 4>the world, with very rare exceptions. And so you have

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<v Speaker 4>to say to yourself, why do people want that much responsibility?

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<v Speaker 4>You asked in the beginning, and think about it. John

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<v Speaker 4>Kennedy was assassinated, Lynda Johnson driven out of office.

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<v Speaker 5>Richard Nixon in fact had to force to resign.

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<v Speaker 4>Gerald Ford lost reelection, Jimmy Carter lost reelection, Ronald Reagan

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<v Speaker 4>was almost assassinated. George Herbert Walker Bush not reelected. So

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<v Speaker 4>you have to say, why do people want to put

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<v Speaker 4>themselves through this and to be president? You have now

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<v Speaker 4>spent two years campaigning bad food, no exercise, no family contact,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's not a.

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<v Speaker 5>Wonderful thing to do.

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<v Speaker 4>But the reason is that people who are ambitious say,

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<v Speaker 4>I want to do something to help my country. I

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<v Speaker 4>want to show that I've done something useful for society.

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<v Speaker 4>And it's the ultimate job in the world.

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<v Speaker 5>For sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Then after that big fight, you get there and you

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<v Speaker 2>realize the golden bars surround you. You talk to both

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<v Speaker 2>Joe Biden and Donald Trump, and I'm compelled, I believe.

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<v Speaker 2>On two pages facing each other, Donald Trump talked about

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<v Speaker 2>the loneliness. You askedten, what does it like to be

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<v Speaker 2>in the White House? The loneliness? You asked Joe Biden,

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<v Speaker 2>is this as fun a job as you thought it

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<v Speaker 2>was going to be? He said, fun is not the

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<v Speaker 2>word that I would use. Maybe they have something in

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<v Speaker 2>common there.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, every president thinks it's lonely because in the end,

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<v Speaker 4>every major decision that the federal government has to make

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<v Speaker 4>and it's difficult, it gets the president because it was

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<v Speaker 4>easy to make a decision about something they would have

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<v Speaker 4>gotten incided by somebody else. Yeah, so they get it's lonely,

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<v Speaker 4>and it's said to be a very lonely job. And

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<v Speaker 4>what Donald Trump was referring to is that in several

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<v Speaker 4>holidays the government was more or less shut down. He

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<v Speaker 4>had to stay there to wait for the government to

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<v Speaker 4>open up and maybe sign a bill.

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<v Speaker 5>So he didn't go down.

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<v Speaker 4>To mar A Lago for I think it was three

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<v Speaker 4>of the four years he was in the White House

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<v Speaker 4>alone during the holidays, and you know, Joe Biden has

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<v Speaker 4>spent a fair amount of time there in long hours

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<v Speaker 4>as well. One of the reasons presidents like Camp David

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<v Speaker 4>is you can go there, you are with your family typically,

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<v Speaker 4>but you don't have all the Secret Service watching you

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<v Speaker 4>every second, you know, And it's not quite the federal

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<v Speaker 4>prison that the White House is often called by people.

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<v Speaker 4>Ronald Reagan said it was the, I guess, the high

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<v Speaker 4>water mark of the federal penitentiary system, because when you're

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<v Speaker 4>in the White House, everybody watches everything you do. You

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<v Speaker 4>can't walk around outside. It's a very complicated and lonely job.

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<v Speaker 4>But again, many people spend time trying to get there,

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<v Speaker 4>and a lot of people want that job.

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<v Speaker 3>Well, and Joe Biden wanted to keep the job up

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<v Speaker 3>until just recently. You spoke with him in April of

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<v Speaker 3>this year, so he still was attempting to seek a

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<v Speaker 3>second term at that time. Do you think the tenor

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<v Speaker 3>of your conversation would have been different had he already

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<v Speaker 3>made the decision to not seek reelection and endorse Kamala Harrison.

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<v Speaker 4>Probably sure he thought he was going to be the

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<v Speaker 4>nominee of the party, and he wanted to be the

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<v Speaker 4>nominee the party, and obviously events unfolded. When history of

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<v Speaker 4>this election is written, the two most consequential decisions I

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<v Speaker 4>think will be Donald Trump's decision to do an early debate,

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<v Speaker 4>because by doing an early debate, he in effect knocked

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<v Speaker 4>Biden out and therefore he now has an opponent that.

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<v Speaker 5>Might be tougher.

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<v Speaker 4>And Joe Biden's decision to ask for an early debate,

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<v Speaker 4>because had he not had an early debate and the

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<v Speaker 4>debate was in September October would have been too late

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<v Speaker 4>to have him replaced. Probably, so both of them will

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<v Speaker 4>probably look back, depending who wins, and say, maybe I

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<v Speaker 4>shouldn't have had an early debate.

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<v Speaker 2>You dedicated this book in part to Ted Sorenson, which

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<v Speaker 2>is fascinating to me. Of course the force behind, as

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<v Speaker 2>we've learned, profiles and courage, but also JFK's inaugural address

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<v Speaker 2>that we choose to go to the moon speech. Before

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<v Speaker 2>you joined us, Kayley and I were talking about migrants

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<v Speaker 2>eating animals in Springfield, Ohio? What would Ted Sorenson make

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<v Speaker 2>of the rhetoric on this campaign?

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<v Speaker 4>Ted Sorenson, for those who don't know, was a very

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<v Speaker 4>young aide who worked for President Kennedy before that for

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<v Speaker 4>sen Kennedy, and he was the person who was probably

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<v Speaker 4>very involved in writing let's say, Profiles and courage President

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<v Speaker 4>Kennedy or then Senric Kenny was ill, probably difficult to

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<v Speaker 4>write too much of it himself. And then the inaugural

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<v Speaker 4>a dress, which I think was the greatest inaugural dress

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<v Speaker 4>of my lifetime, was written in large part by Ted Sorenson,

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<v Speaker 4>and I admired him. I didn't think I could be

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<v Speaker 4>a candidate. I wasn't rich enough, smart enough, handsome enough,

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<v Speaker 4>charming enough.

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<v Speaker 5>To be a candidate. But I thought I could be

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<v Speaker 5>an advisor.

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<v Speaker 4>And so he was the person I went to work

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<v Speaker 4>for when I practiced when I began practicing law in

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<v Speaker 4>New York. And you know, I greatly admire him. I

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<v Speaker 4>was just with his widow the other night when I

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<v Speaker 4>was doing a talk about this book in New York.

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<v Speaker 4>And you know, Ted was an inspiration to me because

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<v Speaker 4>he knew how to write in a way that very

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<v Speaker 4>few people have been able to do since then. He

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<v Speaker 4>just had a way with words. And if you think

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<v Speaker 4>of the inaugural address that Kennedy gave, ask not what

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<v Speaker 4>your country could do for you, but what you can

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<v Speaker 4>do for your country. Those are words that you know

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<v Speaker 4>are going to ring with us for the rest of

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<v Speaker 4>our lives.

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<v Speaker 2>Would he see this as a world in which political

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<v Speaker 2>rhetoric has regressed though these are poetic speeches you're talking about.

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<v Speaker 1>Turned to twenty twenty four.

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<v Speaker 4>We don't value presidential rhetoric in quite the way that

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<v Speaker 4>we probably used to. You know, we used to talk

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<v Speaker 4>about great presidential speeches Lincoln's second inaugural dress, FDR's inaugural dress,

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<v Speaker 4>the first one, or Kenny's in augur dress. Today we

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<v Speaker 4>often don't focus on the rhetoric as much or the

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<v Speaker 4>speeches because the craftsmanship is not quite as fine tuned.

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<v Speaker 4>But there's not as much emphasis on it being fine tuned.

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<v Speaker 4>People just wanted to know what is the president going

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<v Speaker 4>to do, what's it going to do for me? And

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<v Speaker 4>that kind of thing. And it's a different world. Remember

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<v Speaker 4>when John Kenny gave his speech inaugural address. In those days,

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<v Speaker 4>there was no internet, there was no social media. The

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<v Speaker 4>evening news shows for fifteen minutes. There were three networks,

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<v Speaker 4>each one did fifteen minutes a night, and then the

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<v Speaker 4>only papers that people cared about were the Washington Posts

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<v Speaker 4>in New York Times. There was no other way to

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<v Speaker 4>worry about conveying ideas, and so it was a different

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<v Speaker 4>world today. If you're President of United States, you're working

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<v Speaker 4>in the White House. Every minute, you have to focus

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<v Speaker 4>on social media who's saying what, and you have to

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<v Speaker 4>be attuned to what's going on all around the world,

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<v Speaker 4>and you never really are are free from social media

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<v Speaker 4>or TV networks.

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<v Speaker 1>Never well.

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<v Speaker 3>And that's one of the ways in which the office

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<v Speaker 3>perhaps has changed, is you look from George Washington to

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<v Speaker 3>present day. One thing, though, has remained the same. Every

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<v Speaker 3>single person you talk about in this book is a

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<v Speaker 3>man that potentially could change. If Kamala Harris wins in November,

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<v Speaker 3>does that change the nature of the office once what

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<v Speaker 3>Hillary Clinton called that highest glass ceiling has actually been shattered.

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<v Speaker 4>Of course, you think about it. We've had forty six

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<v Speaker 4>men serve in this position, no women. Interestingly, when the

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<v Speaker 4>country was set up, women weren't even allowed to vote

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<v Speaker 4>or in any way participate in government. We obviously changed

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<v Speaker 4>that with the Night of the Amendment. It is amazing that

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<v Speaker 4>you have more than half the population's female, but we

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<v Speaker 4>still haven't and had a female president, we may well

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<v Speaker 4>this time, who knows. I think Hillary Clinton came as

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<v Speaker 4>close as any woman has ever come, because had she

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<v Speaker 4>won one or two more states, she would have been

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<v Speaker 4>president United States and we would have broken that glass

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<v Speaker 4>ceiling to.

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<v Speaker 2>Hear your view on this race. Now, everybody wants to

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<v Speaker 2>know what's on your mind. And I'm sure there are

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<v Speaker 2>some things you can tell us, and maybe you don't

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<v Speaker 2>want to share, but you understand the conversation on Wall Street.

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<v Speaker 2>What is the great fear right now when it comes

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<v Speaker 2>to Kamala Harris, is that the idea of taxing capital

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<v Speaker 2>gains on unrealized gains. Wall Street seems to be more

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<v Speaker 2>comfortable with the idea of Trump, despite a pretty well

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<v Speaker 2>performing stock market under the Biden administration.

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<v Speaker 4>Well, I'll tell you what I think people think, but

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<v Speaker 4>I don't want to say these are my views necessarily,

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<v Speaker 4>but people on Wall Street, and remember Wall Street generally

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<v Speaker 4>is focused on stock market and making money and other things,

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<v Speaker 4>not kind of values that a president might have. But

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<v Speaker 4>they're worried that taxes will go up on businesses, and

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<v Speaker 4>wealthy businesses they're worried that and wealthy individuals. They're worried

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<v Speaker 4>that the regulatory environment will be very harsh. The anti

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<v Speaker 4>trust environment has not been favorable for a lot of

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<v Speaker 4>M and A transactions, and they're worried that it might

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<v Speaker 4>continue that way. They're worried that the people that she

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<v Speaker 4>might put into regulatory positions might be tougher on business

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<v Speaker 4>than even the ones that Joe Biden put in.

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<v Speaker 5>So that's what they're worried about.

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<v Speaker 4>I'm not sure I share all those worries, but I

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<v Speaker 4>think many people on Wall Street saying, look, we have

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<v Speaker 4>to hedge our bats, and Wall Street is all about hedging, right,

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<v Speaker 4>So they are focused very much on the Senate because

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<v Speaker 4>the Senate can very well go Republican. You only need

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<v Speaker 4>to switch one or two seats if we go Republican.

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<v Speaker 4>And so if the Senate were to go Republican and

0:10:19.559 --> 0:10:21.920
<v Speaker 4>with the filler buster rules, I think many people in

0:10:21.920 --> 0:10:24.280
<v Speaker 4>Wall Street who don't like Kamala Harris would say, well,

0:10:24.280 --> 0:10:26.040
<v Speaker 4>we can block almost anything through the Senate.

0:10:26.679 --> 0:10:28.840
<v Speaker 3>Well, and that's what we'd have to keep reminding ourselves

0:10:28.920 --> 0:10:31.679
<v Speaker 3>is we get these various policy proposals from these candidates,

0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:33.480
<v Speaker 3>there is only so much they can do on their

0:10:33.520 --> 0:10:36.640
<v Speaker 3>own without Congress backing them. So it's important to remind

0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:40.439
<v Speaker 3>ourselves of rules that have to be followed as far

0:10:40.440 --> 0:10:42.120
<v Speaker 3>as how legislating goes. I want to ask you about

0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.840
<v Speaker 3>a rule completely unrelated to politics, though, but related to

0:10:45.000 --> 0:10:47.320
<v Speaker 3>of course your interest in sports as an owner of

0:10:47.360 --> 0:10:49.640
<v Speaker 3>teams like the Orioles. There's a new rule in the

0:10:49.720 --> 0:10:52.560
<v Speaker 3>NFL that allows private equity. In Bloomberg's reporting today, the

0:10:52.640 --> 0:10:56.160
<v Speaker 3>Chargers the Dolphins are now getting interest. Is this something

0:10:56.200 --> 0:10:58.000
<v Speaker 3>you're looking at, David Well.

0:10:57.920 --> 0:11:00.800
<v Speaker 4>I would say that it was public public disclosed that

0:11:00.880 --> 0:11:03.360
<v Speaker 4>the firm that I'm the co chairman of, Carlisle, is

0:11:03.400 --> 0:11:05.480
<v Speaker 4>part of a CONSORTI that has been authorized by the

0:11:05.559 --> 0:11:08.040
<v Speaker 4>NFL to buy stakes that go up to ten percent,

0:11:08.480 --> 0:11:10.800
<v Speaker 4>And so all I can say is what's been said

0:11:10.840 --> 0:11:13.079
<v Speaker 4>already in the press. But I do think that sports

0:11:13.120 --> 0:11:15.080
<v Speaker 4>have been a very attractive investment for the last couple

0:11:15.080 --> 0:11:17.439
<v Speaker 4>of years. Very few people have made major sports investments

0:11:17.440 --> 0:11:20.040
<v Speaker 4>that have lost money. Now, some people say it's a bubble,

0:11:20.320 --> 0:11:22.920
<v Speaker 4>it can't keep going on this way. The other hand,

0:11:23.480 --> 0:11:25.559
<v Speaker 4>nobody seems to be running away from the bubble. And

0:11:25.600 --> 0:11:27.760
<v Speaker 4>one of the reasons is that sports is now global

0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:31.240
<v Speaker 4>and because betting has occurred, and betting is now very

0:11:31.240 --> 0:11:34.320
<v Speaker 4>popular betting has fueled I think interest in sports, and

0:11:34.400 --> 0:11:36.400
<v Speaker 4>so people are much more interested in sports than when

0:11:36.400 --> 0:11:38.640
<v Speaker 4>I was a child because there's betting involved, is in

0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:40.240
<v Speaker 4>addition to rooting for your home team.

0:11:40.640 --> 0:11:43.160
<v Speaker 5>So I as you know, I bought the Bottom.

0:11:42.880 --> 0:11:45.480
<v Speaker 4>Oriils or control of the Bottom Oriols with partners recently,

0:11:45.880 --> 0:11:47.440
<v Speaker 4>and I'm now learning the ins and outs of what

0:11:47.440 --> 0:11:49.040
<v Speaker 4>it means to be a sports owner. And you know,

0:11:49.120 --> 0:11:52.839
<v Speaker 4>every time we win, I'm feeling deliriously happy, that you know,

0:11:53.000 --> 0:11:54.720
<v Speaker 4>and when we lose, I feel like the dagger in

0:11:54.760 --> 0:11:57.160
<v Speaker 4>my heart. And so you know, I wish I know

0:11:57.200 --> 0:11:59.559
<v Speaker 4>I was a junior. I was a Little League All

0:11:59.559 --> 0:12:01.480
<v Speaker 4>Star when I was eight years old, and I feel

0:12:01.480 --> 0:12:02.880
<v Speaker 4>like going into the players and say, look, let me

0:12:02.880 --> 0:12:04.360
<v Speaker 4>tell you what I learned when I was eight years

0:12:04.360 --> 0:12:05.720
<v Speaker 4>old about how to hit or how to pitch. But

0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:06.880
<v Speaker 4>they don't seem that interested.

0:12:07.280 --> 0:12:09.800
<v Speaker 1>We only have a minute left. I'm a huge fan.

0:12:09.840 --> 0:12:11.760
<v Speaker 2>I know you are too, Kailee of peer to peer,

0:12:12.679 --> 0:12:14.480
<v Speaker 2>I know what my favorite episodes are.

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:16.679
<v Speaker 1>What's been your favorite interview in this experiment?

0:12:17.000 --> 0:12:19.400
<v Speaker 4>When I did Oprah, it was pretty interesting because she

0:12:19.440 --> 0:12:21.360
<v Speaker 4>said to be a great interviewer. She says, I'm not

0:12:21.360 --> 0:12:23.640
<v Speaker 4>a great interviewer. I'm a great listener. And she's right

0:12:23.679 --> 0:12:26.200
<v Speaker 4>because you have to learn what person is saying and

0:12:26.200 --> 0:12:28.920
<v Speaker 4>then pivot. And that was really interesting. I did George

0:12:28.920 --> 0:12:31.360
<v Speaker 4>Bush and Bill Clinton together one time and that was,

0:12:31.520 --> 0:12:34.120
<v Speaker 4>I think, really good. And Warren Buffett was great when

0:12:34.120 --> 0:12:36.640
<v Speaker 4>I did him. So I like all my interviews. So

0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:39.000
<v Speaker 4>it's like I luck all my children, right, So I

0:12:39.000 --> 0:12:40.640
<v Speaker 4>don't think anyone is more of a favorite. But what

0:12:40.720 --> 0:12:42.400
<v Speaker 4>I like the best is when I know the person

0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:45.080
<v Speaker 4>reasonably well. Yeah, and when you try to use my

0:12:45.120 --> 0:12:47.360
<v Speaker 4>sense of humor, they play along with it. You know,

0:12:47.440 --> 0:12:49.880
<v Speaker 4>when somebody it doesn't pick up that I'm asking a joke,

0:12:50.320 --> 0:12:51.960
<v Speaker 4>it's not as much fun. So like when I asked

0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:53.760
<v Speaker 4>one time Bill Gates, do you think of he had

0:12:53.800 --> 0:12:55.920
<v Speaker 4>a college degree, you might be more successful in life.

0:12:55.960 --> 0:12:57.560
<v Speaker 5>He didn't get that it was a joke and he

0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.280
<v Speaker 5>gave a serious answer. So you know, I like people

0:13:00.320 --> 0:13:02.439
<v Speaker 5>that can pick up on the joke. Sometimes that's great.

0:13:02.520 --> 0:13:04.480
<v Speaker 1>The humor goes a long way around here.

0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:06.520
<v Speaker 2>I have to say, by the way, the McDonald's CEO,

0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:07.760
<v Speaker 2>why does the coke taste better?

0:13:07.800 --> 0:13:08.000
<v Speaker 1>At that?

0:13:08.280 --> 0:13:11.000
<v Speaker 2>I learned something whenever I watch peer to peer David Rubinstein,

0:13:11.160 --> 0:13:12.600
<v Speaker 2>a great treat to have you at the table.

0:13:12.600 --> 0:13:13.360
<v Speaker 1>Congrats on the book.

0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.079
<v Speaker 2>It's called The Highest Calling, Conversations on the American Presidency