Speaker 1: I'm here with Shaikhammad bin Jasam Altani, who was the
Speaker 1: former Prime Minister and Foreign Minister of Qatar, and we're
Speaker 1: in his home in Doha. Thank you very much for
Speaker 1: having us here. Pleasure, David. So, for twenty years you
Speaker 1: were the Foreign Minister of Qatar and for another six
Speaker 1: plus years you were simultaneously the Prime minister. So is
Speaker 1: it a pleasant situation where you don't have to worry
Speaker 1: about all those problems anymore you're retired from those jobs
Speaker 1: or did you love those jobs so much you wish
Speaker 1: I had them again? What wish them again? No? First
Speaker 1: of all, the formilities and history doesn't go back. And
Speaker 1: the second things that I think every part of your
Speaker 1: life has if you know how to use it, you'll
Speaker 1: be excited in it. And I use my life from
Speaker 1: the beginning when I was junior in the governments until
Speaker 1: I become Minister and Municipality, Minister of Electricity, Minister of
Speaker 1: Foreign Affair, Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister, Prime minister.
Speaker 1: It took me a journey of thirty years of working
Speaker 1: in the government, thirty two years actually, and for me,
Speaker 1: I think and I believe that's more than enough. I
Speaker 1: believe now I have a new chapter. I don't believe
Speaker 1: in retirement, but I believe that every age, every time
Speaker 1: of your life, there is something you can do, and
Speaker 1: you can do it and add value in your life
Speaker 1: and around you. So now you're spending a lot of
Speaker 1: time with your investment activities, which are quite extensive around
Speaker 1: the world. I am doing that and I have my
Speaker 1: own my father and my own charity which we are
Speaker 1: also I'm involved in it and I'm pleased with it
Speaker 1: and I build it since my father died, and I
Speaker 1: think that's also for me is a very important part
Speaker 1: of my function all my life daily, especially with all
Speaker 1: the situation around us now in Syria and in Turkey,
Speaker 1: and you see this tragedy in other places. So it
Speaker 1: gives me pleasure to work in that and to do
Speaker 1: with my team. And yes, I'm doing business all over
Speaker 1: the world. And this is not only to do business,
Speaker 1: but as I told you, to make to be a
Speaker 1: fellow which you can add value for yourself and your family.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about when you were Prime Minister and
Speaker 1: Foreign Minister. I should add you also the chairman of
Speaker 1: the QIA, the Qatar Investment Authority, so that can keep
Speaker 1: you pretty busy with all those jobs. As the head
Speaker 1: of Qatar Investment Authority, you made some very large investments
Speaker 1: for Qatar. One of them is a Herridge with department
Speaker 1: store in London, the famous Shard building in London, investments
Speaker 1: in Volkswagen and Barclays and other things. So those investments
Speaker 1: seemed that I've worked out okay, But how did you
Speaker 1: manage being the Foreign Minister, the Prime Minister and the
Speaker 1: head of QIA at the same time. Doesn't that take
Speaker 1: a lot of time. I think it was tough for
Speaker 1: me because I was working with no weekend, and I
Speaker 1: was working sincerely more than what I should do. And
Speaker 1: it's it's if it's a candle, it will be burned
Speaker 1: by now completely. I even in my vacation, I was
Speaker 1: working and meeting people. You know, me and I for long.
Speaker 1: We meet in my holiday and we see each others
Speaker 1: and we discuss business. It was tough, but it was
Speaker 1: a challenge because at that time we started QIA with
Speaker 1: no money literally, and we started with nothing, aiming that
Speaker 1: the gas will give us a flow of money. So
Speaker 1: we started with loans. Actually, most of this transaction being
Speaker 1: done by loans from the banks, and thanks God, the
Speaker 1: plan work. We get a good revenue from the oil
Speaker 1: and gas. From the gas, actually oil, we have very
Speaker 1: little oil, but that revenue all went to the investment authority.
Speaker 1: As we talk today, it's been rumored in the press
Speaker 1: that Qia is looking to buy a team, very famous
Speaker 1: team in the English Soccer League Premier League, called Manchester United.
Speaker 1: So I don't know whether that will happen. But are
Speaker 1: you surprised the interest in the Middle East about the
Speaker 1: English Premier Soccer League where there's so much interest. Many
Speaker 1: countries here seem to have investors who own teams there.
Speaker 1: Are you a big football fan yourself, David, you know
Speaker 1: that I am not football fan, And we talked about
Speaker 1: this a few times and for me, I don't believe
Speaker 1: or I don't like this investment. Maybe it work well,
Speaker 1: but you know some of my son like this and
Speaker 1: always discuss with me why we don't invest in these
Speaker 1: things well, and then they about pushing hard. For me,
Speaker 1: I thought, this is not my step specialties. Let let
Speaker 1: me put it like this. I am an investor. If
Speaker 1: it will be one day as an investment good investment,
Speaker 1: I will think about it. But if not, I will
Speaker 1: not look at look at it as something just for
Speaker 1: an advertisement. I'm not at that category. The World Cup
Speaker 1: when I was here, was an investment by your country,
Speaker 1: and I guess attracting people here and millions of people
Speaker 1: came was at in the end, I think a good
Speaker 1: investment or not. Clearia, let me put it this way.
Speaker 1: You know me, I am always frank. If it was
Speaker 1: my choice, it will not be done. At that time
Speaker 1: when I was in the government and Prime minister, and
Speaker 1: this idea come by His Highness Damer father and his
Speaker 1: Crown Prince. At that time, she had temim. They know
Speaker 1: that time against that idea because I think there is
Speaker 1: a lot of money and effort will be spent. We
Speaker 1: can spend it in something else and it will be
Speaker 1: good for the people in the country. But if you
Speaker 1: ask me now, I will tell you there was a
Speaker 1: lot of outcome, positive outcome out of this. Look at
Speaker 1: the people which they visit cat and I know most
Speaker 1: of them from the business communities and people which they
Speaker 1: are active and all over the world. They came some
Speaker 1: of them first time and they are coming again. They
Speaker 1: are bringing their family. So start working that people saying
Speaker 1: there is a place we did not see it. It's
Speaker 1: good place, and the outcome of that tournament was positive
Speaker 1: from different way. Good organized, well organized organized. Despite all
Speaker 1: the noise negative noise last ten years which we hear
Speaker 1: it about it, it come the outcome when we said
Speaker 1: alcohol or the government decide no alcohol. We find people thinking, oh,
Speaker 1: that's good, I can take my child, my girl can
Speaker 1: go alone. Nobody can talk to her, nobody can you
Speaker 1: know there was no when incident happened. Organization was excellent
Speaker 1: and I think this is the first and the last
Speaker 1: one where you can see the matches in the same
Speaker 1: day and you don't miss any matches because how close
Speaker 1: is it? And so it was unique for the outcome
Speaker 1: was good for the country. Let's talk about your country
Speaker 1: for a moment. The country is a very wealthy country,
Speaker 1: maybe the wealthiest country in the world per capita. Where
Speaker 1: does the wealth of the country come from. Well, the
Speaker 1: wealth of the country, as you know, came from oil
Speaker 1: and gas and mainly gas now and I think this
Speaker 1: is you know, we cannot say that we contribute in
Speaker 1: it a lot. We contribute to take it out maybe
Speaker 1: and doing the right decision with the right partner, but
Speaker 1: that's I don't think that's an innovation. You know when
Speaker 1: when you say you are how you get your wealth.
Speaker 1: If you are a country without any resources and you
Speaker 1: do well, like Switzerland, like Japan, these countries they have
Speaker 1: no resources and right now they are their GDP is
Speaker 1: high and they are doing very well. But for us,
Speaker 1: the challenge will be, Okay, with all this wealth, what
Speaker 1: you are going to do with this wealth, how you
Speaker 1: can preserve it for the future, That's the challenge. So
Speaker 1: when you were growing up, this was not extremely wealthy city,
Speaker 1: no country. It was not wealthy city, definitely. It was
Speaker 1: a moderate you know, at that time. If you compare
Speaker 1: the ten countries rich country, it's very very strange. In
Speaker 1: the fifties or the sixties, one of them is living
Speaker 1: on an Egypt, not you, the American not us, and
Speaker 1: that list right, and you see now how things change.
Speaker 1: And when I first came here more than thirty years ago,
Speaker 1: there was only one building that was more than four
Speaker 1: or five stories as a hotel. Now through how it
Speaker 1: looks like Manhattan. Accept it's more modern than Manhattan in
Speaker 1: many ways. So it's a stunning example of what you
Speaker 1: can do with the wealth if you deploy it appropriately.
Speaker 1: But all these buildings, who was occupying these buildings. Are
Speaker 1: these local people or these oil companies who's occupying all
Speaker 1: the buildings and the residences? I see now, well, I
Speaker 1: think you know it's same when you go to New
Speaker 1: York and now you find oversupplying office and in commercial.
Speaker 1: I think we have oversupply now in the market because
Speaker 1: this was a good business for everybody. So everybody was
Speaker 1: doing a building, either office or residential or retail, aiming
Speaker 1: that it will be rented by one of the companies
Speaker 1: or because there was and still there's a lot of
Speaker 1: work right now. I think the people have to study
Speaker 1: what is surplus. And I think we have surplus in
Speaker 1: the offices and the retail, not maybe the residents the
Speaker 1: residential part, but it is it need carefully for any
Speaker 1: investors to make his own calculation. I think now we
Speaker 1: are an oversupply and we have surplus, which the effects
Speaker 1: start to be felt in the financial market. Now, when
Speaker 1: you were Foreign Minister, you were sharing around the world
Speaker 1: affair a bit, trying to solve a lot of problems,
Speaker 1: and you did solve a number of them. One that
Speaker 1: has not yet been resolved is the one you've worked
Speaker 1: on a lot, the Palestinian issue. You have a very
Speaker 1: close relationship with many of the Palestinian leaders. Do you
Speaker 1: see any way in your lifetime or my lifetime there'll
Speaker 1: be a resolution of that issue. My dream is to
Speaker 1: see this solved and see that we live with the Israelis,
Speaker 1: the Palestini lived with Israeli in a piece full country
Speaker 1: because they are both of them. They are talented people,
Speaker 1: the Palestinian and the jew They are talented people and
Speaker 1: one day I told them a job. If they become
Speaker 1: united or work together, we should be scared from them,
Speaker 1: both of them in my opinion. But when that's need
Speaker 1: a leadership in both sides would like to take a step.
Speaker 1: It's not a leadership in America to push them. We
Speaker 1: need a leader facilitator. Have to be United States the
Speaker 1: facilitator for that. And the Arabs very important to be
Speaker 1: part of this. But it needs two leaders and they
Speaker 1: are not there at the moment. From the Palestinian side
Speaker 1: and from the Israeli side. We need another rabine from
Speaker 1: the Israeli side, from the Palestinian side. Abu Mazen, now
Speaker 1: he did what he did and Oslo on things. I
Speaker 1: don't want to evaluate the guy. You know his friend
Speaker 1: and I know him, but I think we need to
Speaker 1: see a new leadership which have commitment from the Palestinian side.
Speaker 1: I don't believe to solve the problem to do Abraham
Speaker 1: things or I think this is an and a kind
Speaker 1: of I'm sorry to say this world, I think this
Speaker 1: is childish because we are talking about normalization. We have
Speaker 1: no problem with the Israelis to normalize the situation we have.
Speaker 1: We talk with Israelis daily. When I was in my office,
Speaker 1: there was having office here, even when we shut the office,
Speaker 1: we was talking to them, from the intelligence to the
Speaker 1: foreign ministers to the Prime minister. And we can talk
Speaker 1: to them. But to do kind of build a new
Speaker 1: idea with no vision or no target peace target, I
Speaker 1: mean unreal, not just to talk. It's too early to
Speaker 1: do all this unless you have planned what to do.
Speaker 1: Because what I'm worried that within ten years, if there
Speaker 1: is nothing happened, then maybe before that we find ourselves
Speaker 1: in another anti father in the Palestinian side, and we
Speaker 1: will find the Arabs here in the street saying what
Speaker 1: you are doing as a government. So the Abraham Accords
Speaker 1: have not been signed by Katari yet, or maybe they won't.
Speaker 1: You see, that's not likely because as you say it's
Speaker 1: not going to solve the problems that you think are important,
Speaker 1: and maybe our government sign it one day. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm not part of the governments, but in my opinion,
Speaker 1: I think this is tell me what we'll gain from
Speaker 1: this the relationship we have relationship. Everybody have relationship with
Speaker 1: the Israelis. All these countries which they did the Abraham
Speaker 1: they have a relations with Israel. We don't need that.
Speaker 1: We need all of us to talk to the Israeli
Speaker 1: and tell them, look, we will do normalized business, will
Speaker 1: do embassies, will do like in the Arab Plan, which
Speaker 1: King Abdalla said, even better than that. But let us
Speaker 1: sit and try to find a solution in the ground. Now,
Speaker 1: many people in the West were surprised when there was
Speaker 1: a dispute between Saudi Arabia and UAE and Qatar a
Speaker 1: few years ago. It's now resolved. The essence of that
Speaker 1: dispute was never that clear to people. But you think
Speaker 1: that's now way behind the countries and that it's not
Speaker 1: going to come back again. It is way behind. Come
Speaker 1: back or not come back, I don't know, but I
Speaker 1: wish not. But I think everybody learned is part of
Speaker 1: that conflicts. Everybody will learn and learn where is the
Speaker 1: red line for each country. We know they know our
Speaker 1: red line, we know their red line. And I think
Speaker 1: that's important to know what is good now that there
Speaker 1: is a good momentum, and I want this momentum to
Speaker 1: be reflected in the GCC. The GCC is dead since
Speaker 1: twelve thirteen even when we are when I was a
Speaker 1: foreign minister, the GCC was dead last twelve thirteen years.
Speaker 1: We only use the GCC when there is Christ military
Speaker 1: Christ or we need to take a decision. You ask
Speaker 1: us to take a decision in the region and need
Speaker 1: to be in the name of the GCC. I want
Speaker 1: the GCC to be more affected in the life of
Speaker 1: the people so they feel that they have benefit from
Speaker 1: this unity between the GCC. GCC is still it's not there.
Speaker 1: Are you worried about Iran? Many countries in the Arab
Speaker 1: world are worried about Iran. But Iran was somewhat fable
Speaker 1: to you when you had your dispute with Saudi Arabia.
Speaker 1: So is Iran not as big a concern for you
Speaker 1: as it is for Saudi Arabia. The first fear for
Speaker 1: me is not Iran. The first fear is us in
Speaker 1: the region the way how we behave I'm in the leader,
Speaker 1: I'm not one of them. I think if we can
Speaker 1: control our happiness and our frustration and when we are angry,
Speaker 1: to put it as a statement in a box and say, okay,
Speaker 1: we work. We have some difference with X country or that,
Speaker 1: but this different have to be discussed in a civilized way.
Speaker 1: And also to look, okay, if we have challenges, and
Speaker 1: if we agree Iran is our first enemy, how we
Speaker 1: can deal with this matter? Are we going to deal
Speaker 1: with it through direct negotiation? Through war? Which is nobody
Speaker 1: wants war because that's not in our benefit. The problem
Speaker 1: that this decision is not with us because we are
Speaker 1: not in the position at the moment because of what
Speaker 1: I said about the JCCY to take that leadership for
Speaker 1: our region and say, okay, we have problem with Iran,
Speaker 1: we sit with them and discussed details frankly and reach
Speaker 1: a solution. Because I believe we should live in the
Speaker 1: Gulf Area in a harmony between Iran, Iraq and the
Speaker 1: GCC countries. If we can do that, I think this
Speaker 1: is a big achievement, not only for the peace, for
Speaker 1: the trade, for the business, for the economy of that
Speaker 1: all of this. They have over one hundred million people,
Speaker 1: and the Iraq have like forty million people. We have
Speaker 1: like fifty million people. You know, you are talking about
Speaker 1: two hundred, two hundred and fifteen million people, rich country
Speaker 1: with oil. When you were Foreign minister for twenty years
Speaker 1: or so, you dealt with a lot of great leaders
Speaker 1: I assume around the world where they're one or two
Speaker 1: years were really memorable to you. You said, this person
Speaker 1: really is an extraordinary leader. And I really learned a
Speaker 1: lot from that person. There is many leaders I met
Speaker 1: in my life, from Japan, China till the United States.
Speaker 1: I see all of them, and I saw the head
Speaker 1: of state of all of them. But to have a
Speaker 1: person's there is a few guys which I met and
Speaker 1: either you are impressed by how they are clever or
Speaker 1: how they can manage. And I want to put it
Speaker 1: in a manage position, and I think one of them
Speaker 1: is King fat so he can manage the situation internally
Speaker 1: and externally in a way. Good. Do I agree with
Speaker 1: all his policy? No, he doesn't also agree with all
Speaker 1: our policy. That's but I think he's one of the
Speaker 1: leader and the leader which I respect or for his
Speaker 1: country or what he's doing in term of far Fat,
Speaker 1: and how he handled the situation with Israeli. That all
Speaker 1: almost it's like a movie. It needs a big not
Speaker 1: a series of movies. How he dealt with every problem
Speaker 1: with the Israelians, because I was part of you know
Speaker 1: of that with him, and how he you know, maneuver
Speaker 1: through the things. I don't agree with all what he do,
Speaker 1: but he was doing it. King of Morocco, King Hassan
Speaker 1: is also a guy which I respect a lot as
Speaker 1: a leader in the Arab world. So in the United States,
Speaker 1: you met with a number of presidents. Let's say, I
Speaker 1: guess President Clinton, George Bush the Father until the last,
Speaker 1: until I know Biden, and I know even Triumph, So
Speaker 1: I know all of them. Didn't you ever have a
Speaker 1: hard time getting a she or US president or I
Speaker 1: think when you were in you were saying I'm coming over. Depends.
Speaker 1: It depends. Sometimes if they are upset from us, it
Speaker 1: is hard. And sometimes if they are not upset from us, yes,
Speaker 1: I see them in the White House, and that's always
Speaker 1: it happens. When Al Jazeira is part of the problem,
Speaker 1: I have to say. The best relation we have at
Speaker 1: that time with the President Clinton, and he's a great guy.
Speaker 1: He's a great guy. How he can manage the situation.
Speaker 1: When you were foreign minister and prime minister sometimes would
Speaker 1: come to talk to you about investment matters, and I
Speaker 1: would see other well known investment people coming over. Before
Speaker 1: before I am, before I'm a prime minister, and before
Speaker 1: I was for the investment we was doing private you know,
Speaker 1: as as a private client. I was with you. You're right, so,
Speaker 1: but how did you juggle? You have? You have a
Speaker 1: prime minister coming to see you, a foreign minister, an
Speaker 1: investment person. You have to change your brain for all
Speaker 1: these different people coming in. It was your more have
Speaker 1: been working seven days a week to do all that.
Speaker 1: For me, it was not. It was tough, but I
Speaker 1: was used to work for long hours, so it was not.
Speaker 1: In the end the last two years I felt inside
Speaker 1: deep me that I hit the job. I just want
Speaker 1: to leave. And this is maybe I see it lately
Speaker 1: in some programs that I was suggesting to the Emir
Speaker 1: two years before we left together, that I want to
Speaker 1: do you and the emiror both retirement more or less
Speaker 1: the same time. Exactly. Very often it's hard to give
Speaker 1: up power voluntarily. People lose elections, but here they don't
Speaker 1: have elections, So you were voluntarily decided to step back
Speaker 1: from that position with the emir? Was it hard to
Speaker 1: give up that much power? And you're happier now than
Speaker 1: you were then? I am happier, definitely. And if this
Speaker 1: is sincere, if somebody go and take me back, I
Speaker 1: don't want to do what I was doing. It's done,
Speaker 1: It's enough. I did what I did right wrong. I
Speaker 1: did it at that time. I think I did more
Speaker 1: right things than wrong things. But also I did things
Speaker 1: in space of time, very short time. I did a
Speaker 1: lot of things achievement, I think, which I'm happy for me.
Speaker 1: The world now so slow right and decision that I
Speaker 1: will not be part I cannot see myself to go
Speaker 1: and do that, all right. If somebody is watching and
Speaker 1: they say I don't know much about Gatar, what would
Speaker 1: you say? You would want people to know about your country?
Speaker 1: And I think our culture is something need to be seen.
Speaker 1: People what they know about us? They know about oil
Speaker 1: and gas please rich people, or they know about our camel.
Speaker 1: We are proud about our camel, and we are also
Speaker 1: happy about the gas. But they have to see the
Speaker 1: other this guy, which he owned the camel and own
Speaker 1: the oil and gas? Is he capable? Is he did
Speaker 1: well with what he have? And that's the proof you
Speaker 1: can see it in front of you. You consider an
Speaker 1: incredible career in business, investments, diplomacy. What would you like
Speaker 1: to see your legacy by or is your legacy going
Speaker 1: to be your children? First? I want to be seen
Speaker 1: as a human being, Katie human. I am proud about
Speaker 1: this country, about my country more than what anybody think.
Speaker 1: And I'm so attached even I'm traveling a lot now,
Speaker 1: but I'm attached to this thing. So I'm proud that
Speaker 1: I'm Katie. Second things, one of my legacy is my charity,
Speaker 1: which I'm building it very rapidly. That's something I need
Speaker 1: to leave it for my children. The third things, I
Speaker 1: need my children to work together and that's very difficult
Speaker 1: and I need to set an example for the families
Speaker 1: in Katar and other agents how the children, despite their
Speaker 1: different education, different ideas, how they can work together as
Speaker 1: one unity. That's a big challenge for me. Thanks for
Speaker 1: listening to hear more of my interviews. You can subscribe
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Speaker 1: listen