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Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Ashlyn Harris and welcome to Wide Open.

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Speaker 1: So this Christmas and holiday season, I'm really looking forward

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Speaker 1: to having my children for like a white Christmas upstate.

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Speaker 1: My mom is coming in town, Sophia's mom's coming, our

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Speaker 1: friend Jack Garrett is coming, and it just feels really

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Speaker 1: special to have special people to celebrate the holidays and

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Speaker 1: a new year. So I got the kids a bunch

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Speaker 1: of tubes and adult sized tubes, and I think we're

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Speaker 1: just going to have a blast in the snow and

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Speaker 1: really spend quality time together and eat a bunch of

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Speaker 1: good food to feel like just fill our souls with

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Speaker 1: laughter and all the things that we need charging into

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Speaker 1: this new year of twenty twenty six. For New Year's

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Speaker 1: we're coming back to the city, so it'll be interesting

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Speaker 1: to figure out what we want to do as a family.

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Speaker 1: Like clearly the kids won't stay up, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: one for big crowds. I gotta be honest. I don't

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Speaker 1: like going to bed late. It's like, I know I

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Speaker 1: have to get up at six am with my babies,

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Speaker 1: and I look forward to it. So what we're going

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Speaker 1: to do is I bought a ton of black lights,

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Speaker 1: like back in the day, my room was full of

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Speaker 1: black lights, so I bought glasses and glowsticks and face paint.

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Speaker 1: We are going to have the most epic fucking rave

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Speaker 1: these kids have ever been a part of. We have

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Speaker 1: glow in the dark clothes, so I just have like

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Speaker 1: a ton of rave glowsticks and black lights. So I

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Speaker 1: don't even know if the if these kids know what

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Speaker 1: they're about to get their self into. But now that

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Speaker 1: they know it's coming, every day they're like, we don't

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Speaker 1: want to go to school, mom, we want to party

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Speaker 1: when we get home. Are we gonna do the party?

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Speaker 1: So they're now calling the Rave the party? So who

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Speaker 1: knows what they're telling their kids their classmates at school

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Speaker 1: right now. I love being a mom and I love

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Speaker 1: including them and everything, and I think those are the

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Speaker 1: moments they'll really remember the most, not the presence, you know,

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Speaker 1: but really the experience of just doing really fun things

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Speaker 1: like that. So I look forward to holidays to have

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Speaker 1: that time with them. I am, you know, as everyone knows,

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Speaker 1: I'm I'm you know, I'm a professional athlete. I don't

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Speaker 1: I'm never gonna say retired because I don't think it

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Speaker 1: ever leaves you. I'm about discipline. I'm about creating habits.

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Speaker 1: So for me, you know, some people are like I'm

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Speaker 1: gonna work out more or I'm gonna do this, and

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Speaker 1: then they go really hard for like one month and

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Speaker 1: then they're fucking over it and they're that they quit.

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Speaker 1: Like I'm just I keep my shit consistent. I think

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Speaker 1: that's what people don't understand. And it's like, why do

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Speaker 1: we make these goals for the new year, Like this

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Speaker 1: should be a habit of how we show up every

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Speaker 1: fucking day, like and if you can put that and

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Speaker 1: instill that in your brain, it's like, it doesn't have

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Speaker 1: to be a hard work out every day. Just get

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Speaker 1: some movement in and if you don't fuck with that,

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Speaker 1: just stretch, do some mindful like meditation or breathing anything

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Speaker 1: that like you want to do. I don't think you

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Speaker 1: have to do it in extremes, like if you want

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Speaker 1: to read a book or you want to just like

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Speaker 1: chip it little by little and create habits and be

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Speaker 1: disciplined about it, and I think you'll live a better life.

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Speaker 1: I don't eat shit food, so I don't, like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know what I would change, Like I grab life

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Speaker 1: by the fucking balls and I don't wait for New

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Speaker 1: Years to make changes. Like if I don't like something,

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Speaker 1: or I'm not happy with something or the way my

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Speaker 1: body feels or the way I'm showing up, I do

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Speaker 1: the fucking work to it when people aren't watching. I

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Speaker 1: don't have to write it on Instagram to be like

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Speaker 1: New Year's resolution, Like my goals are not for everyone else,

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Speaker 1: like I'm constantly chasing them. And I wish people had

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Speaker 1: that mindset instead of, oh wait till twenty twenty six.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, you don't even know if you'll be here

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Speaker 1: in twenty twenty six. Change it today. I'm blessed. My

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Speaker 1: kids are healthy, my partner's healthy, my family's healthy, and

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Speaker 1: like that to me is success. That is what I

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Speaker 1: hope for. I wish for because money can't fucking buy it.

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Speaker 1: So that's my wish for twenty twenty six is everyone

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Speaker 1: continues to stay healthy and here that's all I hope for.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Wide Open today. We have a very

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Speaker 1: special guest mouth right Is on the show. You might

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Speaker 1: know Mao from season one of The Queer Ultimatum, but

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Speaker 1: that's just one chapter of a much bigger story. Before

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Speaker 1: the cameras, Mao was shaping culture behind the scenes, styling

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Speaker 1: at Barney's, building a reputation in streetwear, and moving through

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Speaker 1: creative spaces with intention and a quiet confidence about them.

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Speaker 1: Mal isn't someone who chased the spotlight. The spotlight actually

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Speaker 1: found her, and with that came a lot of opinions, projections,

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Speaker 1: and expectations about who she is, how she lives, and

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Speaker 1: what her life should look like. This is one of

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Speaker 1: those conversations that really stays with you. Mao's honesty about love, privacy,

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Speaker 1: and identity is an important reminder that growth doesn't always

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Speaker 1: look loud. Sometimes it looks like pulling inward, setting boundaries

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Speaker 1: and reflecting what you actually want, not what people expect

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Speaker 1: from you. All right, everyone, and welcome back to another

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Speaker 1: episode of Wide Open. I'm your host, Ashlyn Harris, and

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Speaker 1: today we have the very wonderful mal Right. Welcome to

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Speaker 1: this show.

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Speaker 2: Thank you, thank you.

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Speaker 1: How are you?

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Speaker 2: What's up? I'm good man, How are you doing?

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Speaker 1: I'm good. Life is busy, life is crazy. I'm trying

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Speaker 1: to keep two children alife, alive and make my beautiful

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Speaker 1: partner happy as much as I can. So it's a

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Speaker 1: full time job.

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Speaker 2: Same same I'm trying to keep my one fur pet alive.

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Speaker 2: So there's that.

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Speaker 1: Oh we have a fur pet, not.

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Speaker 2: Quite a child.

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Speaker 1: But yes, I'll tell you what, it's a good stepping stone.

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Speaker 1: It's all the same same at least, like they don't

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Speaker 1: talk talk back though, That's what I will say. That's

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Speaker 1: the one thing I miss about having a little pet

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Speaker 1: is just the cuddles and no understanding of time whatsoever

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Speaker 1: and always happy to see me and then doesn't talk

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Speaker 1: shit and isn't a mini terrorist.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm the step parent in this situation, so I

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Speaker 2: kind of feel like when she doesn't listen to me,

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Speaker 2: I'm like, are you talking back to me? And I'm

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Speaker 2: just like trying to be on your team here. I

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Speaker 2: don't right want to be for you.

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Speaker 1: I love it tell everyone what's going on in your world.

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Speaker 1: I mean, most people clearly know you if you are

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Speaker 1: like a warm, gentle hug that people if they don't

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Speaker 1: know you. I feel really bad because every time I

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Speaker 1: see you, or every time I see you on social

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Speaker 1: you have such a warmth about you that is so infectious.

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Speaker 1: You are literally a gentle hug all the time, and

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Speaker 1: I adore you, and I'm curious, like what is going

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Speaker 1: on in Mal's world. We're done with the Queer ultimatum,

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Speaker 1: which is so sad, like sad.

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Speaker 2: I know, I know, Oh, we're done with it. It's

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Speaker 2: good for I'm happy about it personally, you know, okay

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Speaker 2: for viewers, though, I am sad that that we're done

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Speaker 2: with it, like that Netflix has done with it.

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Speaker 1: They're done. Like what it was? It was so good, I.

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Speaker 2: Know, and it was like one of the most viewed

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Speaker 2: in that enterprise, So you know, take that up with Uh.

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Speaker 1: Well you definitely well clearly you were in season one,

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Speaker 1: but you helped cast which is so cool for season two. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and did they give you any scoop about like why

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Speaker 1: they chose not to continue moving forward?

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Speaker 2: No, no scoop. I have my hunches, I have my

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Speaker 2: idea you know what I think could be, but they

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Speaker 2: didn't confirm it. And I think I personally think it

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Speaker 2: has something to do with, you know, the current administration.

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Speaker 1: But oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that makes sense.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know, and that hasn't been confirmed. Then

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Speaker 2: I hope not. I hope it's for a different reason.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. It's unfortunate too, because I feel like everyone's treading

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Speaker 1: lightly and then like Hunting Wives comes out and blows

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Speaker 1: everything on It's fucking right. I'm like, so what is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: What is it?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I mean people are starving for this kind of like

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Speaker 1: content and then we're removing it.

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Speaker 2: I know.

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Speaker 1: Glad came out with this study saying like, I don't

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Speaker 1: know exactly the number, but like over fifty to sixty

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Speaker 1: seven percent of queer shows are gone, like people aren't

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Speaker 1: even fucking with it, like done because of probably this

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Speaker 1: new administration, which is like really sad because we made

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Speaker 1: so many strides for like representation and everything we do.

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Speaker 1: As I imagine, you know, I actually I'm not gonna

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Speaker 1: suggest like what was your reasoning and thoughts being like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: let's do this. I'm gonna go on this show and

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Speaker 1: as someone who's what I consider is quite quiet and

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Speaker 1: so like sacred of their personal space, like what made you.

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Speaker 2: Be like yep, this is for me I the first Okay,

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Speaker 2: so the enterprise didn't exist yet, it just wasn't around,

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Speaker 2: so there was no reference, you know, for what we

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Speaker 2: were getting into at the time. It was also post

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Speaker 2: I'm going to say post pandemic, although you know, you know,

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Speaker 2: there's it's still one, but it was like right after

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Speaker 2: when people kind of wanted to be outside or go

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Speaker 2: do other things and could be And I honestly didn't

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Speaker 2: think it was going to turn into what it was

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Speaker 2: going to turn into. I had no and I make

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Speaker 2: pretty calculated decisions, but I had no clue that it

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Speaker 2: was going to become what it was going to become.

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Speaker 2: Had I known that, I don't think I would have

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Speaker 2: done it. I likely know that I wouldn't have. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: I just thought, oh, this is kind of a calculated risk,

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Speaker 2: Like I really didn't care to do it to begin with.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we talked about it at the time

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Speaker 2: and kind of talked it through several times and had

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Speaker 2: several meetings, and finally at the end, I'm like, well,

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Speaker 2: I guess, I mean, worst case scenario, we do have

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Speaker 2: the tools to navigate it. So because we were like

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Speaker 2: therapy heavy, like once a week couple's therapy for a year.

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Speaker 2: So I'm like, well, I guess we have the language

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Speaker 2: if should something crazy come up. Yeah, you know, And

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Speaker 2: I was like, I guess, Like, I guess, let's try it.

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Speaker 1: You know.

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Speaker 2: I tried to weigh it as best as I could.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. No, Yeah, did you feel like there's a part

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Speaker 1: of you that gained so much, you know, creatively, the

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Speaker 1: evolution of what love and self care look like. You know,

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Speaker 1: your job, your work as a stylist, creative consultant, everything

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Speaker 1: you do. Do you think it helped propel like this

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Speaker 1: new mal who you are now after the show or

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Speaker 1: actually did it hinder it? Because I think people don't

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Speaker 1: understand the levity of being on a show for the

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Speaker 1: first time and what type of attention trust me, both

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Speaker 1: positive and fucking negative and everything else in between of

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Speaker 1: just being open and honest. And I'm curious, Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: that helped progress your life in beautiful ways or has

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Speaker 1: it been crippling and a lot of others.

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Speaker 2: I think maybe both. I think it's hard to say

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Speaker 2: that it It's hard to have full scope and speak

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Speaker 2: with any bit of like conviction really because like my

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Speaker 2: life's not done yet, right, so I don't I actually

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Speaker 2: am not sure if it impacted me negatively, and I'm

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Speaker 2: not and I don't tend to think that way anyway.

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Speaker 2: Like my philosophy is just not that there are things

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Speaker 2: that have been really hard about it, and I think

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Speaker 2: it did rather than propelling anything, I think it did amplify,

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Speaker 2: you know, Like I think any bit of any bit

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Speaker 2: of visibility or public visibility or fame or whatever we

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Speaker 2: want to call it. I think, depending on what it is,

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Speaker 2: can definitely amplify who you already are mm hmm. And

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Speaker 2: that's allowed to change as it needs to. But I

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Speaker 2: definitely think it's just shine more of a light on

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Speaker 2: kind of who I am. And that is hard that

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Speaker 2: there are some things that are really wonderful about it

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Speaker 2: and I feel really great about and there are some

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Speaker 2: things where I'm like, Damn, I didn't I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to put like a microphone up to vulnerability. I didn't

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Speaker 2: want to do that.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, you know it's scary. It's absolutely scary. And

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Speaker 1: it's also the things you're doing and living publicly, like

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Speaker 1: hold you accountable in a lot of ways because people

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Speaker 1: don't understand that, like love is ever changing and the

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Speaker 1: evolution of a human is constantly evolving. So people if

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Speaker 1: you say one thing, it's like you can't be a

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Speaker 1: different way, you can't see love in a different light.

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Speaker 1: Like people are so fixated on like that exact moment.

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Speaker 1: And I imagine you're a totally different mouth than you

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Speaker 1: were during that show. I mean, you're radiating life and love.

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Speaker 1: I don't know what your skincare routine is, but it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's skinny, it's working, but you're happy like you're happy,

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Speaker 1: like your your life is full of so much like

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Speaker 1: genuine care and you're receiving it the way I imagine

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Speaker 1: you always have. Because the way you talk about your

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Speaker 1: partner and how you both show up for each other

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Speaker 1: has been really beautiful to watch. And I want to

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Speaker 1: know the mau on that show being you know, and

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Speaker 1: I'm not going to do the whole compare partner thing,

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Speaker 1: but I want to know, has your idea of love

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Speaker 1: in partnership and showing up changed since you've been on

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Speaker 1: that show? Now you are, you know, in a healthy

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Speaker 1: relationship that you're absolutely obsessed with your partner, which is

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Speaker 1: so cute.

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Speaker 2: I love it.

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Speaker 1: But has that idea and identity like completely shifted.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely And I think it would be it'd be a

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Speaker 2: disservice to it would be a disservice to the rest

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Speaker 2: of my life and the things that have transpired since

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Speaker 2: the show. It'd be a disservice to not speak about

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Speaker 2: those things too, right, because I think the show was

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Speaker 2: a small fraction of like so much life that was

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Speaker 2: happening beyond that. You know, we had just we had

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Speaker 2: just gotten out of came out of COVID, and I think,

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Speaker 2: I think COVID relationships are a very specific type of experience.

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Speaker 1: Oh funny you and now you are not kidding with that.

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Speaker 2: Right, And and we didn't we didn't have the tools.

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Speaker 2: You know, life just keeps going, and it's and it's relentless,

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Speaker 2: it just goes. It doesn't for a second to like assess,

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Speaker 2: what did we just fucking go through trying to manage

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Speaker 2: a relationship mid COVID, mid pandemic. Not to mention, we

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Speaker 2: lived in a city where the civil unrest around George

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Speaker 2: Floyd and all this was huge. We lived in Seattle,

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Speaker 2: and Seattle was, according to the news, was going crazy.

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Speaker 2: All everywhere was the Seattle specifically was the one city

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Speaker 2: that had this like acquiesced you know, the people had

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Speaker 2: acquiesced the zone or whatever, and it was just like

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Speaker 2: this autonomou zone. We had no cops, we had nothing,

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Speaker 2: and it looked like it was lawless according to the news. Meanwhile,

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Speaker 2: while we were there, you saw people actually like educating

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Speaker 2: each other on the street, and you saw like kind

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Speaker 2: of what seemed like a utopia or like what you'd

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Speaker 2: hope humans would do given everything. So that was happening. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: while trying to manage what was an extremely unhealthy relationship

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Speaker 2: or you know whatever it was. So we thought, oh,

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Speaker 2: like we got to take care of each other. The

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Speaker 2: world is ending as we know it, when really I

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Speaker 2: think at that time we probably should have. We should

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Speaker 2: have broken up long before that, but we didn't. So

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Speaker 2: there's that. Then we do the show, Then we come

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Speaker 2: out of the show and life is continuing, and the

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Speaker 2: show doesn't air for another year post breakup, and you know,

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Speaker 2: I had moved across the country in that time. Right

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Speaker 2: after that, my dad passed. Like there was just so

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Speaker 2: much life happening.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's heavy, and I think that's the part that

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Speaker 1: people don't understand. But like what people don't know, they

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Speaker 1: don't know. Stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment.

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Speaker 1: After this brief message from our sponsors. I imagine you

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Speaker 1: watching back the show and the experiences that were going

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Speaker 1: on and things that were coming out of COVID, and

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Speaker 1: life is lifeing and experiences are experiencing, Like what is

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Speaker 1: it that people really got wrong? Because this is what

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Speaker 1: I always wonder and I've never been on a reality show,

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Speaker 1: but I imagine when you go in there, you forego

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Speaker 1: the concept of control, Like people can flip it and

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Speaker 1: reverse it all they want. They producers who are very

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Speaker 1: good at their job, will get out of you what

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Speaker 1: they want. Nit clip slip, make you look like a

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Speaker 1: totally This is about entertainment, right, So I'm curious if

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Speaker 1: you felt that way or was it a true like

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Speaker 1: you really felt like they understood who mal was. And

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Speaker 1: if there's anything that you feel like the audience got

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Speaker 1: really wrong.

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Speaker 2: That's such an interesting question. I think that I got

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Speaker 2: a good edit, right, I think that I didn't. I

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Speaker 2: think also I didn't have to do much comparatively speaking.

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Speaker 2: My situation was very very particular, right, So I didn't

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Speaker 2: have to do much, And I think that maybe it

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Speaker 2: kind of robbed me of humanity. I think I think

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Speaker 2: I now, looking back, I'm like me looking back at myself.

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Speaker 2: Then I want to protect myself, and I want to

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Speaker 2: tell myself, like stand up for yourself, like say say more.

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Speaker 2: You know. So, I don't know if the audience got

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Speaker 2: anything wrong. It was just it was just a place

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Speaker 2: in time. I think what the audience gets wrong a

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Speaker 2: lot of times is holding people to who they saw forever. Yes,

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Speaker 2: you know, and whether that's obviously I mean that's part

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Speaker 2: of that's part of production, and that's part of storytelling.

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Speaker 2: And also I think audience oftentimes we don't digest the

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Speaker 2: stuff with a critical eye, and we don't allow for

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Speaker 2: humanity to be like ever expanding and a person's personhood

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Speaker 2: we keep them to that forever. I think, particularly queer community.

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Speaker 2: And I don't know, I don't know what's going on

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Speaker 2: in straight people business, but quickly typically has an interesting

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Speaker 2: relationship with punity too, Like when we watch we observe

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Speaker 2: a person do something and have a human moment, whether

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Speaker 2: we agree with it or not, we think they should

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Speaker 2: be punished forever mm hmm.

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Speaker 1: And the hard Yeah, we don't really have to give

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Speaker 1: zero grace to people nowadays. And not only that, like

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Speaker 1: I feel you when you say that, Like we I

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Speaker 1: say this often we don't stand on the shoulders of

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Speaker 1: other people to allow them like I don't have to

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Speaker 1: agree with everyone. I'm here to respect right, Like I'll

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Speaker 1: give people grace, and I also want people to have

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Speaker 1: a open heart that they can change, because I think

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Speaker 1: fear lies in the unknown. I think a lot of

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Speaker 1: you know, especially our queer community, a lot of the hatred.

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Speaker 1: You know, when I have conversations, it's just people have

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Speaker 1: never met someone like me, so until they understand it,

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Speaker 1: they fear it. And I think the only way to

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Speaker 1: get and cut through it is to really give grace

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Speaker 1: and like have those hard conversations and sometimes like with

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Speaker 1: family members and this, and it's like we have to

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Speaker 1: do it over and over and over and we have

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Speaker 1: to be willing to do that. And I think right now,

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Speaker 1: especially in the queer community, we're just like you either

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Speaker 1: fuck with me or you don't, Like we just have

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Speaker 1: had it. Like we're at the point where we're like

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Speaker 1: I'm done explaining. I'm done, Like I don't want to

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Speaker 1: explain my queerness anymore. Like it's just the grace has

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Speaker 1: has It's disappeared in a lot of ways. And I

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Speaker 1: do think people change, but we have to allow them

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Speaker 1: to have the space to do so without chomping them

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Speaker 1: at their next constantly. Yeah so that you know I'm

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Speaker 1: are curious too, Yes, yes, yeah, I'm scared to death.

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Speaker 1: I'll be honest. You know, my kids are three and four,

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Speaker 1: but you know they're being raised in this time of

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Speaker 1: social media, and if they fly off the handle and

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Speaker 1: write something, it doesn't just affect them, it's going to

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Speaker 1: affect the way the ability to go to school and

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Speaker 1: have friends in college and work. In my life. It's

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Speaker 1: like they don't get mistakes, they don't get the space

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Speaker 1: to grow, they don't get the space to be kids anymore.

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Speaker 1: And that's that's fucking heavy. Yeah, because there's a lot

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Speaker 1: of shit that I've done in my past that not

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Speaker 1: necessarily proud of, but it was like an important growth

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Speaker 1: process for me to understand, like, Okay, who am I

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Speaker 1: and what is my character? And who do I want

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Speaker 1: to be? But I had to go through some shit

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Speaker 1: to get there. But thank god it wasn't plastered all

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Speaker 1: over social media. I mean, it's just it's you can't

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Speaker 1: escape it. You can't. It's like this vicious fucking cycle

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Speaker 1: over and over and over, and it's like the grace

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Speaker 1: is gone, that shit's gone. Empathy, care, warmth, which is

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Speaker 1: interesting because that's like, I feel like something we both

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Speaker 1: have like a lot in common. We look a certain

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Speaker 1: way and people get certain ideas, but I'm about as

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Speaker 1: fucking mushy and soft as you can get. See, it's

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Speaker 1: a it's a sweet, interesting dynamic when you judge a

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Speaker 1: book by its cover. Let's let's just say that. So,

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Speaker 1: what what have you? What's what's new for you right now?

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Speaker 1: I know you just you just moved out of the city,

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Speaker 1: and you know you're originally from Brooklyn where you originally

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Speaker 1: from California?

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Speaker 2: No, really from the West Coast. Yeah, from Anaheim.

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Speaker 1: Damn, I didn't know that I moved.

399
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Speaker 2: I've moved a lot. Yeah. I think that probably adds

400
00:24:23,760 --> 00:24:26,359
Speaker 2: to some of the some of the I don't know

401
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,960
Speaker 2: if it's some of the mushiness, but some of the friendliness.

402
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Speaker 2: I suppose. I grew up in California. We moved a lot.

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Speaker 2: My dad was a VP of a company, and we

404
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Speaker 2: lived in California, and we lived in Arizona and moved

405
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Speaker 2: back to California. Then they built a house in Florida,

406
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Speaker 2: and I went to high school and college there and

407
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Speaker 2: then I left after college, moved to Atlanta and my job,

408
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Speaker 2: you know, my little my big girl job. I got there,

409
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Speaker 2: and then they moved me to Chicago and then Seattle,

410
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Speaker 2: and then that's where I started doing, you know, casting

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Speaker 2: for the show, and then we did we lived in

412
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Speaker 2: San Diego for a second after the show, I moved

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Speaker 2: to New York, like I have moved around.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, quite a bit. But is that the curious is

415
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Speaker 1: that the curiosity piece in you and the constant like

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Speaker 1: I think you're just you're Some people are not good

417
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Speaker 1: at it, but like I just feel like everywhere you are,

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Speaker 1: you're kind of a light in the room. So it's

419
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Speaker 1: not scary to start over to meet new friends or

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Speaker 1: you know, new community. And I think that's a superpower.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I've always had to do it quick, you know,

422
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Speaker 2: because I don't know how long it's gonna last. So

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Speaker 2: and I love community, and I know in my household,

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Speaker 2: I recall my parents were both immigrants to this country,

425
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Speaker 2: and I always recall them being the house where everybody

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Speaker 2: gathered all the time.

427
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:51,159
Speaker 1: They were the house that's so cute. I love that.

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Speaker 1: I like, that's my You know, when you were talking

429
00:25:55,680 --> 00:25:59,119
Speaker 1: about how your co parenting a fur baby, I guess

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00:25:59,160 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: that's interesting. Same part now as a mom, Like it

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Speaker 1: brings me so much joy to hear someone talk about

432
00:26:07,160 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: their family and their experiences, and like, I want to

433
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:16,520
Speaker 1: create those little moments of traditions. And I was just

434
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,960
Speaker 1: thinking about this the other day. It's like why buy

435
00:26:20,000 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 1: the kids all of these toys just because I can.

436
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Speaker 1: I'm going to give the children an opportunity to pick

437
00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,080
Speaker 1: five experiences and like let's just get it could be

438
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,040
Speaker 1: whatever their little heart's desire. I mean, within reason. Let's

439
00:26:35,160 --> 00:26:38,240
Speaker 1: let's not get crazy. But it's going to be like arcade,

440
00:26:38,440 --> 00:26:42,439
Speaker 1: chuck e cheese, ballet. My daughter's really into being a

441
00:26:42,480 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 1: ballerina and a princess these days. But yeah, I do.

442
00:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,879
Speaker 1: I value the experience over like just getting the things

443
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:53,600
Speaker 1: because I can. And it's like such a short grab

444
00:26:53,640 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 1: of happiness instead of really giving my children experience and

445
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,400
Speaker 1: like to see the world and to see other people

446
00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:07,280
Speaker 1: and understand their privilege and maybe not you know, like

447
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,679
Speaker 1: I'm raising, you know, a black and brown child, Like

448
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:15,359
Speaker 1: they've got a lot about life to learn, especially you know,

449
00:27:15,440 --> 00:27:18,399
Speaker 1: being adopted by two white moms. Like there's just so

450
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,960
Speaker 1: much and I think, you know, I was talking to

451
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 1: my partner the other day and I came from a

452
00:27:25,119 --> 00:27:29,119
Speaker 1: family that didn't have much. But I was talking to

453
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:32,119
Speaker 1: my partner and I'm like, what about if we just

454
00:27:32,240 --> 00:27:35,919
Speaker 1: go and like pay for kids kids toys, like parents

455
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,959
Speaker 1: who are paying and it's hard, but like have our

456
00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:43,160
Speaker 1: children do it to give back and understand like how

457
00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,480
Speaker 1: lucky and blessed they are, but also like teach them

458
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,119
Speaker 1: about care and like there are a lot of people

459
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:55,160
Speaker 1: out there who have totally different experiences than we do,

460
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: and like it's our job to take care of our community,

461
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,600
Speaker 1: and how are we going to serve other people? And

462
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:02,920
Speaker 1: I just think there's just so much meaning And my

463
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: wheels are constantly turning being a mom, and I consider

464
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:09,880
Speaker 1: myself a new mom after a few years. But it's

465
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:14,320
Speaker 1: just a really cool process to really do it right.

466
00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:15,760
Speaker 2: Yeah.

467
00:28:15,800 --> 00:28:20,840
Speaker 1: Well I'm trying, honey, I'm trying good. Who Yeah, but like,

468
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:22,840
Speaker 1: who what? How did you grow up?

469
00:28:23,359 --> 00:28:25,600
Speaker 2: I want to go back to you talking about your

470
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:28,320
Speaker 2: you know, your thoughts and being a mom, and it's

471
00:28:28,359 --> 00:28:30,359
Speaker 2: reminded me of how I grew up, right like you

472
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 2: what you were saying was reminding me of my mom.

473
00:28:32,480 --> 00:28:36,080
Speaker 2: My mom was really big on like making sure we

474
00:28:36,200 --> 00:28:39,600
Speaker 2: go feed the hungry, or like you know, involving ourselves

475
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 2: in soup kitchens. My family, uh, they still run it

476
00:28:44,160 --> 00:28:45,680
Speaker 2: and they still have it, but they run a group

477
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:49,280
Speaker 2: home for mentally challenged men. So these were like my

478
00:28:49,400 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 2: brothers are like my you know, my family. I grew

479
00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:55,520
Speaker 2: up with these men or see or visiting them anyway often.

480
00:28:56,160 --> 00:28:59,760
Speaker 2: So service has always been service and community has always

481
00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:04,400
Speaker 2: been part of my family's threat, and it's very normal

482
00:29:04,960 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 2: to me. It's not like it's a very natural thing

483
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 2: to me to want to serve and be a part

484
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:14,840
Speaker 2: of that any way that I can. So, yeah, that

485
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,400
Speaker 2: was definitely growing up. My dad came from Cuba. He

486
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:22,680
Speaker 2: he fled Cuba, and him too, he's very community focused

487
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:26,040
Speaker 2: and like you are, you're only as strong as your community.

488
00:29:26,080 --> 00:29:29,080
Speaker 2: He's he's very much so ingrained that in us from

489
00:29:30,040 --> 00:29:33,680
Speaker 2: like birth, you know. But other than that, I also

490
00:29:33,680 --> 00:29:37,440
Speaker 2: played basketball. I grew up playing basketball. Yeah, basketball college.

491
00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,880
Speaker 2: I was a three. Well do you know you played soccer? Right?

492
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,320
Speaker 1: I did? I played I played everything.

493
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:47,320
Speaker 2: Yeah. I see you at the Liberty Games, I know.

494
00:29:47,960 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 1: Yeah season take a holder, baby, come on.

495
00:29:50,400 --> 00:29:52,000
Speaker 2: I saw you managing the kids too, so.

496
00:29:54,480 --> 00:29:57,280
Speaker 1: They you know, it's it's they want to see Ellie.

497
00:29:57,640 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 1: You know, it's like, don't be all the thing, don't

498
00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,680
Speaker 1: we all It's why I go to the games too.

499
00:30:02,920 --> 00:30:04,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, that's kind of how I grew up.

500
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,640
Speaker 2: My brother also grew up playing basketball. We're twelve years apart.

501
00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 2: I was a baby, so I kind of grew up

502
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:14,360
Speaker 2: almost like an only child a little bit.

503
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:15,280
Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

504
00:30:15,560 --> 00:30:17,880
Speaker 2: You know it was me and my parents were older.

505
00:30:17,920 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 2: I mean my dad, I mentioned him passing, he was ninety.

506
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,080
Speaker 2: He just passed last year. Yeah, I had older parents

507
00:30:25,320 --> 00:30:29,960
Speaker 2: and older community around me. That's my part so too.

508
00:30:30,240 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, you got that wisdom and you're just whyse and

509
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,120
Speaker 1: the way you move in the world like it's it's

510
00:30:37,160 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: it's clicking for me.

511
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 2: Now, older people and a lot of loss will do.

512
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:41,320
Speaker 1: It, total think.

513
00:30:41,720 --> 00:30:43,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

514
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:49,440
Speaker 1: They always say I'm this like gentle and soft because

515
00:30:49,440 --> 00:30:52,720
Speaker 1: of what I've had to experience and overcome. I don't

516
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,560
Speaker 1: think that I find that very true in every aspect.

517
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: I think, you know, but it takes a lot of work. Now,

518
00:31:02,280 --> 00:31:06,840
Speaker 1: it takes a lot of work as someone who has

519
00:31:06,960 --> 00:31:11,120
Speaker 1: been hurt or has endured so much trauma not to

520
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,640
Speaker 1: project that onto other people. And it takes a lot

521
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,720
Speaker 1: of work to see through that because hurt people hurt

522
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: other people one hundred percent.

523
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:23,840
Speaker 2: I think when you use the language gentle is something

524
00:31:23,840 --> 00:31:26,240
Speaker 2: I really resonate with because I think, you know, I

525
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: consider myself a gentle being. But it's a practice that's

526
00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:32,239
Speaker 2: not like a you don't just arrive there. That is

527
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 2: a constant thing that you're practicing, is remaining a gentle

528
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:41,520
Speaker 2: human and it really really otherwise pretty harsh world.

529
00:31:42,520 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know, yes, it's very very Yeah. How have

530
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: you in a world that is quite harsh, especially right

531
00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: now for our community? How are you creating a safe

532
00:31:54,560 --> 00:31:58,800
Speaker 1: space for yourself and you know, like setting boundaries or

533
00:31:58,880 --> 00:32:00,000
Speaker 1: whatever it is for you.

534
00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,959
Speaker 2: The thing I can reflect on most easily is I

535
00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 2: just came off of I just did a ten day

536
00:32:09,520 --> 00:32:12,240
Speaker 2: vapasha and if I don't know if you know if

537
00:32:12,240 --> 00:32:15,520
Speaker 2: this is or not, but it's ten day silent situation.

538
00:32:15,560 --> 00:32:19,680
Speaker 1: Silent. Yeah, it's like a spiritual it's like really.

539
00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, and Vapashna is specifically teaching you how to

540
00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:31,720
Speaker 2: sit with pain, you know, yea, yeah, So I just

541
00:32:31,760 --> 00:32:37,000
Speaker 2: did that and meditation. I meditate every morning for an

542
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:43,280
Speaker 2: hour and that doing that, having that practice specifically around

543
00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:47,200
Speaker 2: vapashna has really kind of helped. And if not for

544
00:32:47,240 --> 00:32:51,120
Speaker 2: anything else, it helps me get ultra present and it

545
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:55,920
Speaker 2: helps me kind of just be unmoved. I don't really

546
00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:01,080
Speaker 2: react as big to things anymore, not the good order

547
00:33:01,120 --> 00:33:03,560
Speaker 2: the bad. I just kind of stay stationary and take

548
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:07,080
Speaker 2: it all as information whatever's happening around me, and respond

549
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:09,560
Speaker 2: to that as best as I can.

550
00:33:10,600 --> 00:33:14,280
Speaker 1: Yeah, what do you think was your your biggest breakthrough?

551
00:33:14,320 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: And you said you went for how many days?

552
00:33:16,440 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 2: Ten? Ten days?

553
00:33:17,600 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: Ten? And that's nothing. You have no communication, no phones,

554
00:33:21,600 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 1: it's like silence.

555
00:33:22,920 --> 00:33:25,200
Speaker 2: No journal, just being with yourself.

556
00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeahah, so what do you what would you say was

557
00:33:28,880 --> 00:33:32,360
Speaker 1: the biggest breakthrough if you don't mind sharing and getting

558
00:33:32,560 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: you know, wide open about it, Like, what was the

559
00:33:35,000 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: big breakthrough moment for you doing this? It?

560
00:33:41,400 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 2: I think it unfolds to me like weekly I have

561
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,360
Speaker 2: a new download about it. I'm like, oh my gosh.

562
00:33:47,560 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 2: Had I not done this, I wouldn't have known this.

563
00:33:52,560 --> 00:33:58,080
Speaker 2: I think we don't spend nearly enough time with ourselves,

564
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,560
Speaker 2: none of us that we need to, not at all,

565
00:34:02,600 --> 00:34:05,360
Speaker 2: And I obviously I know, like there are systems in

566
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,560
Speaker 2: place that don't really allow for that. Like we're all

567
00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,600
Speaker 2: on the hamster wheel. Capitalism is a bitch. When we

568
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:13,560
Speaker 2: got a participate, we don't have time, but we need it.

569
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,480
Speaker 2: We need it, We need it so badly, so deeply.

570
00:34:17,520 --> 00:34:25,160
Speaker 2: We need to sit through discomfort because it informs so much. Yeah,

571
00:34:25,239 --> 00:34:28,719
Speaker 2: it's healing, and we have this, we have this way

572
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,239
Speaker 2: that we sit in solitude. And I hear people sometimes

573
00:34:32,520 --> 00:34:34,000
Speaker 2: I laugh a little bit because people are like, I

574
00:34:34,040 --> 00:34:36,759
Speaker 2: love my solitude and all the shit, and I'm like,

575
00:34:37,520 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 2: solitude under your control is very different than having to

576
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:46,799
Speaker 2: having to sit beyond you being done with silence. Those

577
00:34:46,840 --> 00:34:51,719
Speaker 2: are two very different things. Solitude when you're fasting is

578
00:34:51,920 --> 00:34:56,600
Speaker 2: very different, you know. And it's not peaceful. Silence isn't

579
00:34:56,640 --> 00:35:00,600
Speaker 2: peaceful at all, not beyond you wanting to be in it.

580
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 2: It's quite chaotic. Our brains are quite They're animals, you know,

581
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: they're wild animals. And so I don't think I don't

582
00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:12,960
Speaker 2: know that we've I don't know that I'm a masterive

583
00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:14,800
Speaker 2: piece either, But I don't know that we've really massive

584
00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 2: piece until we can sit still amongst chaos for real.

585
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:27,120
Speaker 1: Wow, stay tuned. I'll be back in just a moment

586
00:35:27,320 --> 00:35:35,760
Speaker 1: after this brief message from our sponsors. Well, I also

587
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:42,400
Speaker 1: think because we're fed so much negativity and we have

588
00:35:42,480 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: access to it so often, people don't understand it penetrates

589
00:35:49,440 --> 00:35:54,719
Speaker 1: and it's breaking, and it's it's damaging and short circuiting us,

590
00:35:54,760 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 1: and our brain is almost seeking it, feeding off I mean,

591
00:35:58,719 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: think about all the shit people nowadays.

592
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:06,719
Speaker 3: Yeah, the things that brains we have addictive brains to

593
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:12,839
Speaker 3: the most wild ass shit we can consume, and we're

594
00:36:12,880 --> 00:36:18,000
Speaker 3: getting so desensitized by I mean, everything on nowadays that

595
00:36:18,040 --> 00:36:20,560
Speaker 3: has the highest numbers are the most fucked up shows,

596
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:23,200
Speaker 3: and people love.

597
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:26,759
Speaker 1: To consume it. And then we we're curious of why

598
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:29,880
Speaker 1: we're all having mental health episodes and we're having terrible

599
00:36:30,480 --> 00:36:34,319
Speaker 1: thoughts and negative self talk. And it is a practice,

600
00:36:34,520 --> 00:36:38,640
Speaker 1: like how it's a it's a choice too, of what

601
00:36:38,680 --> 00:36:42,200
Speaker 1: we choose to consume and put it down and say

602
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: this isn't the best thing for me, and then I

603
00:36:45,560 --> 00:36:51,680
Speaker 1: don't have to project or put this this it affects

604
00:36:51,719 --> 00:36:53,600
Speaker 1: the way we move in the world and we don't

605
00:36:53,640 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: even fucking know it.

606
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,440
Speaker 2: Yeah we don't. If I did take that, That's one

607
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,160
Speaker 2: thing I took away from from doing that retreat was

608
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:04,800
Speaker 2: also like I just felt over an overwhelming amount of

609
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:10,080
Speaker 2: compassion for the human condition, like people do. They literally

610
00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 2: don't know what they're doing. They don't know, and we're

611
00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:16,840
Speaker 2: just consuming and taking it in and we're just so addicted.

612
00:37:17,680 --> 00:37:20,799
Speaker 2: We're just such we have such addictive brains and it's

613
00:37:20,920 --> 00:37:23,799
Speaker 2: so simple, but it's so like damn.

614
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, I agree, And I think we have this society

615
00:37:29,920 --> 00:37:34,120
Speaker 1: where we're constantly trying to be someone else that we

616
00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:37,239
Speaker 1: do very quickly lose sight of who we are. You

617
00:37:37,719 --> 00:37:41,480
Speaker 1: can be yourself and you can be beautifully yourself, and

618
00:37:41,640 --> 00:37:46,279
Speaker 1: everyone should. We are are so different. The way we

619
00:37:46,320 --> 00:37:48,600
Speaker 1: show up is different, the way we dress is different.

620
00:37:48,719 --> 00:37:51,719
Speaker 1: Like people, you know, when I was a player, They're like,

621
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:53,520
Speaker 1: I want to be just like you don't want don't

622
00:37:53,560 --> 00:37:57,040
Speaker 1: you don't want to be me? Yeah, I won't you

623
00:37:57,120 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: be better than me? Yeah, I'm doing this so you

624
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,719
Speaker 1: can be better than me. Like I think we forget that,

625
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:08,400
Speaker 1: you know, especially at someone like you. Like style, like icon,

626
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:11,520
Speaker 1: the way you show up, the way you move in

627
00:38:11,560 --> 00:38:13,799
Speaker 1: the world, like it's infectious. So people want to be

628
00:38:14,080 --> 00:38:16,400
Speaker 1: like it and they want to be like it at

629
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,399
Speaker 1: all costs. But I'm like, you're losing yourself and your

630
00:38:19,440 --> 00:38:21,080
Speaker 1: identity in the process.

631
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:24,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like the can be you. Yeah, yes, you

632
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:28,440
Speaker 2: can't skip that. You can't skip the process. But I

633
00:38:28,480 --> 00:38:30,719
Speaker 2: think more than anything, when I see that now, I

634
00:38:30,760 --> 00:38:33,359
Speaker 2: think my lenses, Like people really just want belonging, They

635
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:37,480
Speaker 2: just want to belong somewhere. Really at any expense, and

636
00:38:37,960 --> 00:38:42,000
Speaker 2: they're doing what they think is that thing, you know,

637
00:38:42,640 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 2: to create, to have belonging wherever that is, you know,

638
00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 2: and that that hurts me like that sometimes pains me,

639
00:38:50,360 --> 00:38:54,799
Speaker 2: even me. I mean, I think nobody's exempt from doing it.

640
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:59,280
Speaker 2: I think I've also, you know, morph myself a million

641
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:01,880
Speaker 2: times in my life for belonging.

642
00:39:02,440 --> 00:39:05,040
Speaker 1: I think absolutely, I think.

643
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,600
Speaker 2: I'm at the point where I'm I'm shedding the need

644
00:39:07,680 --> 00:39:10,600
Speaker 2: to do that, you know, But I'm not beyond it.

645
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:14,960
Speaker 2: I don't think I'm beyond it. Yeah, I have an

646
00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:18,239
Speaker 2: idea of who I think I want to be, you know,

647
00:39:18,840 --> 00:39:21,799
Speaker 2: and I'm still getting to know myself. I don't think

648
00:39:21,800 --> 00:39:22,279
Speaker 2: that ends.

649
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:27,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, just even giving yourself the space to say that

650
00:39:27,400 --> 00:39:31,120
Speaker 1: and own it, I think is important for other people

651
00:39:31,160 --> 00:39:36,440
Speaker 1: to hear, because, you know, I was laughing with Sophia.

652
00:39:36,600 --> 00:39:39,960
Speaker 1: We were on a cruise with my high school friends

653
00:39:40,280 --> 00:39:42,680
Speaker 1: and one of my high school friends said something that

654
00:39:42,760 --> 00:39:47,560
Speaker 1: really I haven't stopped thinking about, and you just reminded me.

655
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:50,400
Speaker 1: She goes, Wow, celebrities are just like us.

656
00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:51,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

657
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: I was like, what do you what does that even

658
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,239
Speaker 1: fucking mean? Like, what do you mean by that? And

659
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,640
Speaker 1: I didn't want to draw attention to it, but it

660
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 1: just shows that people have these ideas based on what

661
00:40:07,600 --> 00:40:12,560
Speaker 1: they see or character that's played or a deal that's endorsed,

662
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,040
Speaker 1: whether it's cosmetic or clothes. Like we we fuck up

663
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:21,719
Speaker 1: just like anyone else. We eat, sleep, do the same shit.

664
00:40:21,920 --> 00:40:26,280
Speaker 1: Like we are not perfect humans. We're not perfect people.

665
00:40:26,320 --> 00:40:29,160
Speaker 1: We don't have the answers to everything. We're like all

666
00:40:29,200 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: just figuring it out on our own too.

667
00:40:31,600 --> 00:40:31,799
Speaker 2: Yep.

668
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:36,560
Speaker 1: Yeah, Like it was a really weird reflective moment to

669
00:40:36,640 --> 00:40:42,520
Speaker 1: be like, oh, that's like what some people think when

670
00:40:42,560 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: they see entertainment or athletes or this or that. It's like,

671
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: is there really a reflected moment?

672
00:40:52,480 --> 00:40:56,880
Speaker 2: Right? I do wish consumers, I mean I'm I do

673
00:40:56,960 --> 00:40:59,520
Speaker 2: wish consumers would hold on to that, you know, more

674
00:40:59,560 --> 00:41:02,400
Speaker 2: often when consuming people in their lives, just like, oh,

675
00:41:02,400 --> 00:41:07,360
Speaker 2: they're just like us. I think entertainers are celebrity cultures

676
00:41:07,440 --> 00:41:10,080
Speaker 2: as a departure from your own life. And I can

677
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:14,160
Speaker 2: I can understand that. I can understand tuning into some

678
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:17,879
Speaker 2: big figures business because you get to depart from your

679
00:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 2: own world. Yep, I get that, but then we got

680
00:41:21,400 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 2: to tune back in like that's they are just a

681
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:25,000
Speaker 2: human they're just a human.

682
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:29,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I totally agree. So let's let's say this,

683
00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:34,680
Speaker 1: would you create a new reality show if you were

684
00:41:34,760 --> 00:41:38,160
Speaker 1: the creative like lead behind it, would you want to

685
00:41:38,239 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: see another?

686
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:39,880
Speaker 3: You know?

687
00:41:40,280 --> 00:41:43,520
Speaker 1: It doesn't it can be Reality can be unscripted, it

688
00:41:43,560 --> 00:41:46,640
Speaker 1: can be scripted, like, what are your thoughts? Would you

689
00:41:47,080 --> 00:41:49,279
Speaker 1: want to dabble in it? Or you've you've done it

690
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: and you're closing your you're tying that in a pretty

691
00:41:52,080 --> 00:41:54,800
Speaker 1: bow and you're like, Okay, I did it. I'm done.

692
00:41:56,520 --> 00:42:03,240
Speaker 2: I'm going to say, given the current landscape of how

693
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:11,480
Speaker 2: people consume media, no, I wouldn't not now say more.

694
00:42:12,320 --> 00:42:15,839
Speaker 2: I just don't. I just think that there's a lot

695
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,839
Speaker 2: of work to be done in the world around us.

696
00:42:19,800 --> 00:42:22,000
Speaker 2: I think we need to tap back in with each

697
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:27,400
Speaker 2: other in community and fixing the world around us. I

698
00:42:27,440 --> 00:42:29,600
Speaker 2: do think we need breaks from things, for sure, and

699
00:42:29,680 --> 00:42:32,520
Speaker 2: you get to decide what that break looks like for you.

700
00:42:33,320 --> 00:42:36,480
Speaker 2: I don't have any rules around that. But I just

701
00:42:36,520 --> 00:42:41,600
Speaker 2: don't think consuming other people's life is it. I just

702
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:45,840
Speaker 2: don't think that's it. I just don't think reality TV.

703
00:42:47,239 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: I appreciate it, obviously, I watch it and I have

704
00:42:51,040 --> 00:42:53,759
Speaker 2: commentary just like anybody else. But I just don't know

705
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,600
Speaker 2: that I would want to add to that echo chamber

706
00:42:57,640 --> 00:42:59,600
Speaker 2: that already exists. I don't have anything else to add

707
00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:02,640
Speaker 2: to it right now. Yeah, I don't think that even

708
00:43:02,719 --> 00:43:06,040
Speaker 2: if I did, I'm unsure that that's what people want

709
00:43:06,040 --> 00:43:08,600
Speaker 2: to see, you know, right now, the humans right now,

710
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:11,160
Speaker 2: I don't think. I don't think our brains want to

711
00:43:11,200 --> 00:43:15,800
Speaker 2: see that just yet. You know, you're not anything worth consuming.

712
00:43:17,080 --> 00:43:20,520
Speaker 1: It's so true, and I like this is going to

713
00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:23,200
Speaker 1: be And I don't know if you get this, but

714
00:43:23,360 --> 00:43:30,040
Speaker 1: I do feel like men, straight white men are the

715
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:36,680
Speaker 1: most intrigued by people like you and I, yes, period,

716
00:43:36,920 --> 00:43:39,799
Speaker 1: I say this all the time to Sophia. I get

717
00:43:39,880 --> 00:43:46,360
Speaker 1: hit on more straight white dudes then I do. Women

718
00:43:47,080 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: like I don't get chased by queer women for some reason.

719
00:43:51,719 --> 00:43:56,240
Speaker 1: There's this weird fact you like, it is so bizarre,

720
00:43:56,280 --> 00:43:58,800
Speaker 1: and I'm curious, like, do you agree? Does it happen

721
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:01,319
Speaker 1: to you? What are your thoughts about this?

722
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,400
Speaker 2: I will say I think I feel like my experience

723
00:44:04,400 --> 00:44:07,799
Speaker 2: may be as far as getting hit on. I think

724
00:44:07,840 --> 00:44:11,280
Speaker 2: when straight white men get drunk, yes, then they say.

725
00:44:12,440 --> 00:44:16,080
Speaker 2: In my experience, I have had them say crazy shit

726
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:18,919
Speaker 2: to me or get extremely curious, and I'm like, where

727
00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,120
Speaker 2: are the fuck is going? I thought we were I

728
00:44:21,120 --> 00:44:22,920
Speaker 2: thought we were growing it out and this is weird.

729
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:27,279
Speaker 2: Now you've made it weird. And also I say that,

730
00:44:27,280 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 2: and I also want to hold that like humans are curious,

731
00:44:32,120 --> 00:44:34,160
Speaker 2: you know, and like they just are and they just

732
00:44:34,200 --> 00:44:38,000
Speaker 2: have questions. And I think while men can be problematic,

733
00:44:38,040 --> 00:44:40,160
Speaker 2: I think that I do have grace for men just

734
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:43,799
Speaker 2: being curious, being people, just being curious about whatever. They

735
00:44:43,840 --> 00:44:48,719
Speaker 2: haven't been able to question socially before, so that makes

736
00:44:48,719 --> 00:44:55,000
Speaker 2: me sad for them. But straight white men have been

737
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,719
Speaker 2: the most. Like usually they've been like were you on

738
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:00,239
Speaker 2: that show? I was just in the barbershop the other

739
00:45:00,280 --> 00:45:04,399
Speaker 2: day and this guy and it's like a very hetero barbershop. Yeah,

740
00:45:04,480 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: why dude was just like, hey, can I ask you

741
00:45:06,760 --> 00:45:08,960
Speaker 2: a weird question? And I was like, what's up? You know?

742
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:11,640
Speaker 2: And he's like were you on that show?

743
00:45:12,400 --> 00:45:15,719
Speaker 1: Like oh my god, and.

744
00:45:15,640 --> 00:45:18,080
Speaker 2: He's like you were awesome. Me and my girlfriend watched

745
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 2: it like it was really cool to watch you. And

746
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,560
Speaker 2: that has happened quite a bit, and I think it's

747
00:45:23,800 --> 00:45:25,240
Speaker 2: I think it's kind of cool. I think it's funny,

748
00:45:25,280 --> 00:45:27,359
Speaker 2: but also also pretty cool.

749
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,279
Speaker 1: Uh, it's very entertaining out and about, Like I, I

750
00:45:32,760 --> 00:45:36,719
Speaker 1: do find it really fun and entertaining, especially like I

751
00:45:36,880 --> 00:45:41,200
Speaker 1: just my childhood best friend just had a bachelorette party

752
00:45:41,320 --> 00:45:45,279
Speaker 1: on a cruise out of Florida. So the amount of

753
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:52,360
Speaker 1: growing going on was like comedy. I learned so much

754
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:57,440
Speaker 1: about life and things I had no business knowing about

755
00:45:58,080 --> 00:46:02,799
Speaker 1: being on that cruise with a lot of straight people. Yeah,

756
00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,000
Speaker 1: I know what I've thought about swingers. I learned a

757
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:12,000
Speaker 1: lot about upside down pineapples. Yes, I'm like a I

758
00:46:12,040 --> 00:46:12,840
Speaker 1: know nothing.

759
00:46:14,440 --> 00:46:18,160
Speaker 2: And straight men are kind of like in some of

760
00:46:18,200 --> 00:46:21,640
Speaker 2: the situations I've been around or just observed, they get

761
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,760
Speaker 2: pretty queer, like get kind of like gay. It gets yeah,

762
00:46:25,120 --> 00:46:27,839
Speaker 2: so broe in the spectrum that it goes like yeah,

763
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:32,360
Speaker 2: like if gay is hearing and hetero's here, it goes

764
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:36,160
Speaker 2: very far around and lines right back up and it

765
00:46:36,200 --> 00:46:36,719
Speaker 2: gets real.

766
00:46:39,040 --> 00:46:43,000
Speaker 1: It's real, It's really something. There was one gentleman who

767
00:46:43,040 --> 00:46:45,359
Speaker 1: was walking around the boat and every day he had

768
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:49,600
Speaker 1: a new upside down pineapple T shirt. And I guess

769
00:46:49,640 --> 00:46:55,440
Speaker 1: it was like code for like I'm opening. I'm opened,

770
00:46:56,520 --> 00:46:59,920
Speaker 1: I know, and I just I had so many questions

771
00:47:00,239 --> 00:47:02,760
Speaker 1: I wanted I would have him on the podcast. Honestly,

772
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,879
Speaker 1: I have to find this dude. I think his name

773
00:47:04,960 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 1: is probably Mike. If I were to get Mike with

774
00:47:10,280 --> 00:47:13,439
Speaker 1: the Pineapple shirt, I need him on the podcast because

775
00:47:13,480 --> 00:47:16,440
Speaker 1: I need him to tell me everything because the shirts

776
00:47:16,480 --> 00:47:21,000
Speaker 1: eye was Yeah, I mean it was so broie in

777
00:47:21,040 --> 00:47:24,160
Speaker 1: a really weird way. I just I have thoughts and

778
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 1: I'm giving grace, but I have thoughts, yeah, and I

779
00:47:28,960 --> 00:47:30,000
Speaker 1: need to just know more.

780
00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:32,120
Speaker 2: No grace. But that's a question.

781
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:37,120
Speaker 1: So what's next for e mail? Well, what's what's what

782
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,360
Speaker 1: are you looking forward to? You know what what's next

783
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:41,120
Speaker 1: for you right now?

784
00:47:43,000 --> 00:47:50,200
Speaker 2: Oh? So many things. I mean, me and my partner

785
00:47:50,239 --> 00:47:53,640
Speaker 2: are just moved into a new place. So that's beautiful.

786
00:47:56,440 --> 00:47:58,600
Speaker 2: I'm feeling like I want to take the next step.

787
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: Good for you.

788
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:01,839
Speaker 2: That's all I'm going to give you on this pod.

789
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:05,160
Speaker 1: Okay, Yeah, we'll tell you about it line, Yeah, tell

790
00:48:05,200 --> 00:48:09,360
Speaker 1: me everything. And and I'm really happy to see you happy.

791
00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:13,400
Speaker 2: I'll tell you all the things. I think there's that

792
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:16,480
Speaker 2: there's we're talking about, Like we're talking about kids and stuff,

793
00:48:16,960 --> 00:48:20,880
Speaker 2: and we're talking about I mean, our families love us.

794
00:48:21,280 --> 00:48:26,680
Speaker 2: It's beautiful. Working on a book, stuff, working on podcast stuff,

795
00:48:26,760 --> 00:48:29,880
Speaker 2: so I get to actually just be I have the

796
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:33,200
Speaker 2: privilege at this point of being as creative as I

797
00:48:33,239 --> 00:48:36,239
Speaker 2: want to be with a partner that loves it and

798
00:48:36,280 --> 00:48:40,120
Speaker 2: supports it. And I'm lucky enough, you know, to have

799
00:48:40,160 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: a platform that really supports me. So that's where I'm

800
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,279
Speaker 2: at right now. Maybe I'll go back to corporate. I

801
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,200
Speaker 2: don't know, though I was in corpor for a long time,

802
00:48:50,200 --> 00:48:50,680
Speaker 2: but I don't know.

803
00:48:50,880 --> 00:48:56,200
Speaker 1: I know the possibilities are endless. Yeah, would you would

804
00:48:56,239 --> 00:48:58,359
Speaker 1: you want to be in fashion? What would you want

805
00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:02,160
Speaker 1: to do corporate America?

806
00:49:02,800 --> 00:49:06,160
Speaker 2: Probably strategy, I think like brand strategy would probably be

807
00:49:07,560 --> 00:49:10,160
Speaker 2: would probably be it. I'm so I'm so involved with

808
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:13,720
Speaker 2: the people and like I'm actually like in the field

809
00:49:13,760 --> 00:49:17,760
Speaker 2: with people. Yeah, and I'm really fascinated by how people

810
00:49:17,800 --> 00:49:20,919
Speaker 2: think and make decisions. So probably strategy if I were

811
00:49:20,960 --> 00:49:22,080
Speaker 2: to that's what I do.

812
00:49:22,280 --> 00:49:23,320
Speaker 1: I'm gonna call you.

813
00:49:23,320 --> 00:49:25,000
Speaker 2: You with me, you're with me? Call me out?

814
00:49:25,120 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: Yeah? You know, well now, thanks thanks so much for

815
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:33,160
Speaker 1: coming on. Uh for everyone out there, like go follow

816
00:49:33,200 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: them out. She's one of the coolest people I know.

817
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: And we didn't even get a chance to really talk

818
00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: about like our identity, but I really feel like I'm

819
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,799
Speaker 1: gonna have you on because I do feel like, what

820
00:49:45,840 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: do you want to give the people listening and watching

821
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:52,640
Speaker 1: right now? Hmmm?

822
00:49:55,600 --> 00:50:02,200
Speaker 2: I think for the whole like human community straight wherever you,

823
00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,719
Speaker 2: however you exist, if you have an identity and you

824
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:09,600
Speaker 2: are living and you're a human, you be gentle. Be

825
00:50:09,719 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 2: gentle on yourself, be gentle with yourself and the people

826
00:50:14,520 --> 00:50:21,600
Speaker 2: around you. And life is really really, really really short,

827
00:50:21,960 --> 00:50:25,520
Speaker 2: and it's really fragile, So like you owe it to

828
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,080
Speaker 2: yourself to be as gentle as you can and practice

829
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:32,960
Speaker 2: that and give yourself grace and space to be a

830
00:50:33,040 --> 00:50:36,440
Speaker 2: thousand different people in this one in this one little

831
00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:39,680
Speaker 2: life you have to live, not knowing when it can end.

832
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:42,680
Speaker 2: Give yourself permission to be as many different things as

833
00:50:42,680 --> 00:50:44,919
Speaker 2: you need to be, and change as much as you want.

834
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 2: You're like allowed to do that.

835
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,919
Speaker 1: Give the people the permission to grow. I love it, well, mal,

836
00:50:51,960 --> 00:50:54,680
Speaker 1: thank you so much, and good luck with everything. Yeah,

837
00:50:54,920 --> 00:50:58,319
Speaker 1: you know, I'm always in your corner and I can't

838
00:50:58,360 --> 00:51:03,480
Speaker 1: wait to hear about tying the knod and growing the family,

839
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:06,319
Speaker 1: and I just want all the best things for you,

840
00:51:06,560 --> 00:51:10,120
Speaker 1: So you deserve that, and you know who knows what's

841
00:51:10,160 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: going to come out of that. You'd be surprised what

842
00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,759
Speaker 1: those type of doors open up in terms of clarity.

843
00:51:15,880 --> 00:51:18,759
Speaker 1: So I say this, being a mom has been the

844
00:51:18,760 --> 00:51:22,319
Speaker 1: greatest title I've ever held, and I've won a lot

845
00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:25,520
Speaker 1: in my career. So I'm wishing you both the best

846
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:25,879
Speaker 1: of luck.

847
00:51:28,160 --> 00:51:32,200
Speaker 2: Thank you, friend, thank you, thank you, thank you all.

848
00:51:32,200 --> 00:51:35,439
Speaker 1: Right, thanks for being on Wide Open, and uh, we'll

849
00:51:35,440 --> 00:51:39,000
Speaker 1: see y'all next week. I really appreciate Mouth for showing

850
00:51:39,080 --> 00:51:42,400
Speaker 1: up fully and sharing their truth on their own terms.

851
00:51:43,040 --> 00:51:46,279
Speaker 1: There's power in that, especially in a world that constantly

852
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:52,000
Speaker 1: asks queer people and women to explain themselves. In this episode,

853
00:51:52,320 --> 00:51:54,880
Speaker 1: I hope it resonates with you. I hope it gives

854
00:51:54,920 --> 00:51:58,560
Speaker 1: you permission to protect your peace, to evolve, and to

855
00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,160
Speaker 1: let the version of love look exactly how it needs

856
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,000
Speaker 1: to look in that moment. Thank you for being here,

857
00:52:05,080 --> 00:52:07,480
Speaker 1: thank you for listening with an open heart, and for

858
00:52:07,600 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: continuing to show up on Wide Open with me, and

859
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:11,439
Speaker 1: I'll see you next time.