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Speaker 1: Hey, this is Sanny and Samantha and welcome to Stuff

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Speaker 1: I Never Told You Production of by Heart Radio. And

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Speaker 1: welcome to another classic episode, and this one we've been

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Speaker 1: talking a lot about ethical consumerism, where to buy things from,

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Speaker 1: and it has brought back a conversation to me, at least,

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Speaker 1: that we had with Renee Powers about how to run

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Speaker 1: a feminist business and how complicated that is and all

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Speaker 1: of the questions you have to ask yourself and I

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Speaker 1: still think about it. Honestly, I still think about it.

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Speaker 1: So please enjoy this classic episode. Hey, this is Annie

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Speaker 1: and Samantha and welcome to Stefan Never Told You Protection

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Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio. And today we are so so so happy

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Speaker 1: to be joined by Renee Powers of Feminist book Club,

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Speaker 1: the podcast, the business, the subscription box, all of it.

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Speaker 1: Thank you so much for joining us. I am so

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Speaker 1: excited to be here. Thanks for having me. We're so

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Speaker 1: excited to have you. We've already like we do this

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Speaker 1: all the time. We just adopt people as friends, so

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Speaker 1: you're like our friend perfect. We're gonna have really fun

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Speaker 1: hangout times where we complain about business stuff. Yes, I

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Speaker 1: love this for all of us.

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Speaker 2: I love that your podcast just fits perfectly with ours,

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Speaker 2: And I'm like, why haven't we've been hanging out before.

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Speaker 2: That's uh, that's more that's stranger to me than the

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Speaker 2: this part.

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Speaker 1: It's true, it's true, And this is this is a

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Speaker 1: really fun thing because you're coming on our podcast and

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Speaker 1: we're going to be on your podcast, which I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: admit i'm a little nervous about because you feel a

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Speaker 1: little bit more polished.

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Speaker 3: Oh oh, it's all a facod. It's all fake, fake

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Speaker 3: it till you make it, is my mantra.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and I love that as our like twelve year

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Speaker 2: veteran here are saying she's nervous, and yes, I still

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Speaker 2: get nervous.

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Speaker 1: It's like I want a plane with turbulence, right.

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Speaker 3: I have to tell you though, And I was telling

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Speaker 3: Samantha this earlier that I started podcasting because of stuff

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Speaker 3: Mom never told you, Like I started listening back in

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Speaker 3: like twenty ten, is that right? Like yeah, like even

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Speaker 3: before Caroline came on, it was it was Christian and Molly. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 3: and that's what inspired me to podcast. I remember, like Dorive,

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Speaker 3: I had a thirty five minute commute to my grad

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Speaker 3: school program, and I would it was a straight shot

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Speaker 3: and I would just cueue up all the back episodes.

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Speaker 3: A fan ever said, so this feels really like I

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Speaker 3: don't know, this is really fulfilling to me. So thanks

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Speaker 3: for thanks for chatting with me.

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Speaker 1: I love that so much. Oh my gosh, I'm almost

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Speaker 1: like I'm thinking back to my time because I was

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Speaker 1: an editor at that point. I was the editor of

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Speaker 1: the show. So that's so cool. It's like those connections

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Speaker 1: you can make over technology and you don't realize. Yes,

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Speaker 1: like he's made them.

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Speaker 3: The parasocial relationships have become real social relationship.

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Speaker 1: Oh my gosh. Yes, yes, it's so odd too working

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Speaker 1: in this business when you, like, as an editor, I

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Speaker 1: would know such personal facts about people who have never

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Speaker 1: spoken to me before but I work with them. It

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Speaker 1: was just such a strange thing where it's like you

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Speaker 1: probably don't even know my name, but I know, and

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Speaker 1: you like lost your virgin very bizarre. Well, okay, can

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Speaker 1: you introduce yourself to our listeners.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so, as you said, my name Serine Powers, I

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Speaker 3: she her pronouns. I am based in Minneapolis, Minnesota, and

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Speaker 3: Minneapolis proper, not one of the urbs.

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Speaker 1: Okay, that's a big thing.

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Speaker 4: That's a thing for everyone like exactly, yeah, but I

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Speaker 4: am the founder of Feminist Book Club.

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Speaker 3: We are a monthly book subscription service and media company.

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Speaker 3: We use literature as a launchpad to have difficult conversations

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Speaker 3: about social justice and we've been doing this for just

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Speaker 3: over five years now. This grew out of a failed dissertation.

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Speaker 3: Oh wow, So I'm actually I'm a I call myself

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Speaker 3: a pH dropout. I spent eight years in grad school,

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Speaker 3: six years in a PhD program, and and I was

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Speaker 3: studying gender and communication and technology and got to the

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Speaker 3: point where I did all my coursework, I passed my exams,

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Speaker 3: and then I went to propose my dissertation and I

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Speaker 3: failed it three times, and I was like, I'm out. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it was just like horrible on my mental health. So

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Speaker 3: I was in Chicago. My partner is from Minneapolis. We

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Speaker 3: moved up here together, and I was like, well, I

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Speaker 3: had this interview project as part of my dissertation. I'm

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Speaker 3: just going to do it as a podcast. And like

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Speaker 3: I said, stuff, Mom, never told you got me into podcasting.

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Speaker 3: Like listening to podcasts and feminist podcasting I think is

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Speaker 3: such an interesting medium. And so thanks to y'all and

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Speaker 3: what you do Feminist book Clubs started as a podcast,

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Speaker 3: and my listeners would say, like, you're always giving you know,

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Speaker 3: book recommendations, like what if you had an actual book club,

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Speaker 3: And it just grew organic from there. We started just

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Speaker 3: a bunch of friends in a Facebook group reading the

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Speaker 3: same books, and now we have you know, a thousand

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Speaker 3: members around the world and our own platform and app,

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Speaker 3: and we talk to authors, and we have a you know,

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Speaker 3: bi weekly podcast. Bi weekly has twice a week, not

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Speaker 3: every other week, it's twice a week podcast and daily blog.

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Speaker 3: We're big on TikTok, We're big on Instagram. It's just

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Speaker 3: rad as hell. So that's what we are and what

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Speaker 3: I do. I just kind of guide the ship.

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Speaker 1: Yes, and it is quite the ship. You've got quite

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Speaker 1: a large team. I was a little jealous when I

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Speaker 1: was looking at it right. This is amazing. You get

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Speaker 1: to work with these as many people.

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Speaker 3: They're so cool to Every single one of our contributors

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Speaker 3: and staff is just like the coolest people I've ever met.

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Speaker 3: And I am big on surrounding myself with people that

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Speaker 3: are just much smarter than me. So we do have

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Speaker 3: We've got kind of our executive team of four of

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Speaker 3: us that our podcast producer. We've got our blog editor

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Speaker 3: in chief, and then our Captain of Commerce is their title,

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Speaker 3: and their name is Raw and Ron and I work

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Speaker 3: in Minneapolis together in an office space, and so we

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Speaker 3: are the only two full time employees. But everyone else

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Speaker 3: is a contributor and you know, doing two to four

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Speaker 3: pieces of content every month and helping out on you know,

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Speaker 3: the community and creating all sorts of really cool conversations

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Speaker 3: to starting really interesting conversations of like things that they

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Speaker 3: are interested in and therefore I am now interested in.

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Speaker 3: So it's yeah, our content really runs the gamut of

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Speaker 3: a little bit of everything. We've got, you know, someone

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Speaker 3: who works for the federal government. We've got a former

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Speaker 3: park ranger. We've got a science communication like professional like

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Speaker 3: feminism applies to everything, and we are able to use

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Speaker 3: our team of contributors to to highlight that. We've got

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Speaker 3: like a film writer like it's just cool, it's just cool.

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Speaker 3: Everybody is just yeah, a romance author like what. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: it's a great team.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's awesome. And I do want to come back

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Speaker 1: to the thing you said about being a feminist podcast

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Speaker 1: in this this space in a second, But just first,

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Speaker 1: I have a couple of questions about how has podcasting

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Speaker 1: treated you? How has it been? And then also I

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Speaker 1: find we have a book club on here. It is

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Speaker 1: once a month and it's amazing, but I find that

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Speaker 1: it's difficult to like read a whole book for podcasts,

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Speaker 1: which sounds terrible, but like when it's your job, like

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Speaker 1: you're researching all the time, you're reading stuff all the time,

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Speaker 1: it just becomes like, okay, and I hate this, but

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Speaker 1: it's true. We'll be like this book is too long,

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Speaker 1: we can't read this one. Have you found that that

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Speaker 1: has sort of leaked into your personal enjoyment of reading?

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Speaker 3: Mmmm?

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Speaker 1: What a good question.

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Speaker 3: I I'm hmm. So one of the reasons I started

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Speaker 3: Feminist Book Club is because I was so tired of

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Speaker 3: reading like research, like dead old white guys writing about

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Speaker 3: postmodernism like over it. So anything that's not that has

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Speaker 3: always been fun for me. But to your point, yes,

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Speaker 3: there are some books that kind of feel like homework,

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Speaker 3: whether that's for you know, one of our books of

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Speaker 3: the month, or if that's the guest that we're going

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Speaker 3: to have on the podcast. I read everybody's books that's

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Speaker 3: on the podcast, So yes, I don't know what else

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Speaker 3: to say about that without as sending people.

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Speaker 1: Not trying to do gotcha interview gosh.

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Speaker 3: But what I will say is I'm a very fast reader,

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Speaker 3: and so I always have at least three books going

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Speaker 3: at once, and if if one, if I'm reading something

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Speaker 3: for quote unquote fun, so I don't have like the

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Speaker 3: author coming on or I don't have to write discussion

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Speaker 3: questions for our book club. I am not afraid of

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Speaker 3: not finishing a book like time is too precious. I

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Speaker 3: will I will put it. If it's like fifty pages

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Speaker 3: in and I am not feeling it, it's just not

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Speaker 3: the right time for me. It's not you know, the

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Speaker 3: vibe that I'm looking for, I will shelve it. I'm

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Speaker 3: unapologetic about not finishing books. I also listen to most

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Speaker 3: books on audio rather than reading physical books, and Famous

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Speaker 3: Book Club does have an audiobook subscription nice and I

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Speaker 3: find that being able to instantly be listening to something,

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Speaker 3: I get through so many more books because I can

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Speaker 3: do it, you know, while I'm walking my dog, while

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Speaker 3: I'm washing dishes, while I'm doing yardwork. You know. So

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Speaker 3: I at ninety percent of the time I've got you know,

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Speaker 3: earbuds in and I'm listening to a book on at

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Speaker 3: least one point five speed.

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Speaker 2: Oh.

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Speaker 1: Interesting. I love it when people are write it and

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Speaker 1: like I only listen to it this this, this speed, Like, all.

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Speaker 3: Right, your audiobook is great at one point five speed.

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Speaker 2: That's good to know myself as well. So if not

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Speaker 2: too a chipmug a fuck.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, you both sound great. That's a great speed

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Speaker 3: for y'all.

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Speaker 1: Yes, Oh my gosh, I love that so much. It's

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Speaker 1: true though it is. Oh, I'm sure we'll probably talk

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Speaker 1: about this a bit when we are on your show,

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Speaker 1: but it is one of those things that we kind

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Speaker 1: of had to say to our boss, which felt strange.

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Speaker 1: It felt like he was assuming this is gonna be

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Speaker 1: a grand slam because you've got like an audience, and

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Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, but people listen to things because they

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Speaker 1: can do something else while they're listening to the thing,

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Speaker 1: and it's just different mediums. Like I'm not sure it's

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Speaker 1: going to translate necessarily. But both Samantha and I foolishly

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Speaker 1: didn't realize we were going to do an audiobook, which

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Speaker 1: I'm so happy about, Like it's very cool. I want

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Speaker 1: to be accessible all that stuff, but I just it

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Speaker 1: is different when you can walk your dog or cook

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Speaker 1: or do something while you're listening to a book.

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Speaker 3: And I'm one of those people that I always have

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Speaker 3: to be doing something with my hands, Like, so it's

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Speaker 3: hard for me to sit down and read a book.

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Speaker 3: I'm very like fidgety, and so what I often do.

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Speaker 3: Then I got really into cross stitching. Yes, yes, so

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Speaker 3: I have just dozens of cross stitching projects that I'm

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Speaker 3: working on, and I will just sit on the couch,

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Speaker 3: listen to my book and do my little do my

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Speaker 3: little cross stitching because I'm seventy five years old and

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Speaker 3: unashamed of it. And I'm also in like I'm calling

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Speaker 3: it my cozy mystery era, Like all I want to

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Speaker 3: read are like women solving murders but like cozy. Yes,

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Speaker 3: so yes, I just make me a cup of tea

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Speaker 3: and you know, reserve a bed at the Old Folks

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Speaker 3: Home for me because I'm.

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Speaker 2: Sounds doesn't sound bad to me?

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Speaker 1: No, No, Samantha is looking for a lazier version of

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Speaker 1: cozy game.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, like I'm.

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Speaker 2: Like trying to actually do things and having quests. No,

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Speaker 2: that's like good, I'm good. I just I want to

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Speaker 2: do something in less than that. What do I just

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Speaker 2: click on things.

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Speaker 3: Thank you. That's how. That's how I got you want

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Speaker 3: to talk about games, How I got into animal crossing

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Speaker 3: because it's just like, yeah, I just want to sit

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Speaker 3: here and fish.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's the thing is like I literally stopped building things,

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Speaker 2: so it's like I don't want this to be a

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Speaker 2: whole village. I want it to be my five people.

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Speaker 2: And I just go selfish, like I don't understand what

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Speaker 2: this is. Even a boy like I actually try to

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Speaker 2: start knitting, and I did. Okay, I did a couple

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Speaker 2: of rows, and I was like, and I'm done. So

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Speaker 2: I'm really good at it.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's all right to change an audio book.

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Speaker 3: You do a few more and you can do a

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Speaker 3: few more roads.

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Speaker 2: I am an odd person when it comes to audiobooks.

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Speaker 2: I do like I will play phone games while I'm

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Speaker 2: listening to the audio, or I will sam I will

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Speaker 2: work the double whammy of that. So yeah, but I

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Speaker 2: like your version better except for the fact that I'm

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Speaker 2: not talented enough to do this stitching. Yeah.

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Speaker 3: Oh, it's just following. It's just following a map. It's

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Speaker 3: so easy.

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Speaker 2: This is what people tell me. And then I try it,

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Speaker 2: and then it comes out of blob. I'm like, you

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Speaker 2: lie to me.

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Speaker 3: All the stitches and start over, which is also really satisfied.

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Speaker 3: Is it okay?

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Speaker 2: Because in my mind I'm just automatically breaking the string

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Speaker 2: and throwing it across the room and screaming up my failures.

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Speaker 1: Fair enough that sounds yeah, totally. I could chat all

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Speaker 1: day about this kind of stuff. But you did propose

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Speaker 1: a serious topic for this episode, which is something that

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Speaker 1: we struggle with that we think about a lot. And

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Speaker 1: that's when you are an intersectional feminists and that's something

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Speaker 1: that's part of you, but you're still in this capitalist

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Speaker 1: space that is not that and in fact and typical

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Speaker 1: to that. So how to be a feminist in a

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Speaker 1: space that is not when we do have to, you know,

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Speaker 1: have livelihoods and make money and survive, but how to

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Speaker 1: do that? So if you can just talk about like

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Speaker 1: your initial because you said you've done a lot of

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Speaker 1: interviews about this lately, you've been thinking about it lately,

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Speaker 1: sort of the when you sent this idea to us.

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Speaker 1: What was on your mind? What are you thinking about?

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Speaker 3: Yeah, so it's something that I think about constantly, is

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Speaker 3: how to run a feminist business? Because, like you said,

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Speaker 3: that feels contradictory, and it's something I changed my mind

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Speaker 3: about all the time. And this is something you all

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Speaker 3: discuss in your book too, and I love that you

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Speaker 3: talk about this fear of failure is detrimental to the

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Speaker 3: feminist movement. And I've been screaming that from the top

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Speaker 3: of my lungs, right that you know, if I don't

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Speaker 3: show up try and fail, Like if I don't show

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Speaker 3: up and try, knowing that I could fail, Like what,

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Speaker 3: that's not moving anybody forward? Right, So all I'm saying

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Speaker 3: is like, this is my approach and I will likely fail,

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Speaker 3: but that's okay because we will all learn something from it. Right, So,

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Speaker 3: how do we participate in capitalism and critique capitalism at

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Speaker 3: the same time as something I think about a lot.

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Speaker 3: And the the short answer is capitalism is compulsory, Like

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Speaker 3: there's nothing that we can do to remove ourselves from

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Speaker 3: capitalism and still be just like a functioning human in

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Speaker 3: the society. So that means that we have to participate

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Speaker 3: in capitalism ethically, And so how do we do that?

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Speaker 3: What does that look like? And so that's what I've

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Speaker 3: been like, how to be an anti capitalist business is

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Speaker 3: like really hard, but how to be an ethical business

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Speaker 3: that prioritizes the needs of its customers, the needs of

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Speaker 3: its employees, the needs of its staff before profit. I

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Speaker 3: think that is what sets feminists businesses apart from your

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Speaker 3: run of the mill, even small business. I was gonna say,

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Speaker 3: like Walmart, but like even there are a lot of

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Speaker 3: small businesses that are just in it for the bottom line. Yeah,

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Speaker 3: every decision that is made in this business comes from

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Speaker 3: a place of people over profit. Like, yes, we have

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Speaker 3: to pay our bills, but if by chance we can't

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Speaker 3: pay our bills, we will still pay our people. And

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Speaker 3: that's a real thing. Right We're in a recession, and

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Speaker 3: there are there are times like right now, I was

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Speaker 3: just telling you all before we started recording, like our

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Speaker 3: office space was broken into four times in the last month,

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Speaker 3: and we lost, you know, over five thousand dollars worth

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Speaker 3: of equipment, Like all of our festival stuff is gone.

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Speaker 3: It's just it's so frustrating, and insurance won't cover it,

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Speaker 3: which is really great. Yeah, oh I love it. So

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Speaker 3: Like we started a I believe deeply in mutual eight too,

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Speaker 3: and so we started to GoFundMe and we're starting to

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Speaker 3: like recoup some of those costs and anything left over

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Speaker 3: is going to start to help us get the ball

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Speaker 3: rolling on reincorporating as a feminist co op, an employee

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Speaker 3: owned co op. So that's I wanted to get this

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Speaker 3: business off the ground, so it was stable, it was running,

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Speaker 3: it had systems and processes right.

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Speaker 2: And.

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Speaker 3: Then I wanted to step away. And so that's what

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Speaker 3: we're in the process of right now, is putting the

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Speaker 3: business in the hands of the actual community. Like I said,

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Speaker 3: my background is in feminist theory, and so I come

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Speaker 3: at this not from a business standpoint. I don't have

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Speaker 3: a background in business. I don't have a business degree,

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Speaker 3: but I come from this from a theory background. And

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Speaker 3: what does it look like when we put feminist theory

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Speaker 3: into action? And there is a research method called feminist

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Speaker 3: participatory action research, and I have tried my best to

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Speaker 3: adapt that to running a business. And what that really

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Speaker 3: means it's a feedback loop, right of you know, we're

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Speaker 3: thinking about this decision. What do you think we want

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Speaker 3: to go this direction? What do you think this goes

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Speaker 3: all the way down to Like the books that we pick,

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Speaker 3: I don't pick them, our members pick them. Like I

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Speaker 3: choose a theme because I'm like, well, we haven't read

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Speaker 3: Native American voices lately, so like, let's do Native American

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Speaker 3: Voices month, something along those lines. We haven't read trance voices,

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Speaker 3: we haven't read about Hollywood, so like our next our

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Speaker 3: next theme is in the zeitgeist, right because they're on strike,

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Speaker 3: but it's a night at the movie, so we're going

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Speaker 3: to be having conversations about the strike and the labor movement,

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Speaker 3: but you know, all under the guise of reading fun

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Speaker 3: Hollywood stories. So I propose the theme, our members suggest

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Speaker 3: titles based on that theme, and then everybody votes and

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Speaker 3: that's what gets chosen as the book of the month.

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Speaker 3: So yeah, learning with and from participants instead of like teaching,

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Speaker 3: like just not assuming I'm the smartest person in the room,

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Speaker 3: because I'm absolutely not. But you know, bringing our community

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Speaker 3: into the decision making has been really rewarding. And then

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Speaker 3: and then they feel invested in it too. So I

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Speaker 3: think that's I just gave you, like all of my

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Speaker 3: word salad about about running a feminist business. So yes,

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Speaker 3: let's let's let's let's synthesize here, right, So restructuring into

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Speaker 3: a co op, people over profit, prioritizing our customers' opinions

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Speaker 3: and asking for their feedback, I think, and opening up

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Speaker 3: this feedback loop. I think that are those are the

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Speaker 3: hallmarks of how we run a feminist business and how

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Speaker 3: we uh yeah, push back against and participate in capitalism

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Speaker 3: in in an anti capitalist way. We're not in it

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Speaker 3: to make a bajillion dollars. Nobody sells books to make

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Speaker 3: a bajillion dollars unless your name is Jeff Bezos and

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Speaker 3: he can give.

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Speaker 2: Agree, agree, Also, can we actually make money because I

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Speaker 2: want to make money with the book? How do we

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Speaker 2: do this?

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Speaker 3: Annie? Yeah, sorry, not to be the bearer of bad news,

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Speaker 3: but son of them.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sorry, friends as expected, but.

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Speaker 3: Yes, they thank you.

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Speaker 2: I love the wrap up that was. You can tell

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Speaker 2: I've definitely done presentation. I see your PhD in here,

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Speaker 2: like trying to do the defense.

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Speaker 3: Not quite a PhD. I'm considered abd all the dissertation.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, well I'm gonna I'm gonna say you have.

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Speaker 3: It because you you were. Thank you you were. So

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Speaker 3: you can still call me professor Powers.

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Speaker 2: I will, I will every day. But yeah, I think

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Speaker 2: that's such an interesting conversation because we've had to have

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Speaker 2: a back and forth about like, yeah, we need money

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Speaker 2: to live. Uh, So we can't say because like, we

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Speaker 2: have a lot of ads and advertising, and we try

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Speaker 2: to be very very very conscious of what we say

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Speaker 2: yes and no to, and of course sometimes we just

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Speaker 2: don't have any control at all. And then the like

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Speaker 2: pushback we get because we are an absolute and we

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Speaker 2: stand by the intersectional feminist, we make mistakes or we

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Speaker 2: may not know every information because as much as we

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Speaker 2: want to be those upstanding people, the fact of the

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Speaker 2: matter is this is a job. We have to make money.

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Speaker 2: I have to do things kind of the same way

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Speaker 2: when I was in social work, of like, I'm doing

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Speaker 2: some things that I really hate, but I'm trying to

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Speaker 2: do it in the best and more conscious way possible,

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Speaker 2: knowing that I'm finding a system that's rigged against everyone,

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Speaker 2: every marginalized group in so many ways. Like have you

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Speaker 2: had a lot of conversations on how to like navigate

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Speaker 2: that for yourself, especially when it comes to like advertising

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Speaker 2: and all of those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, we do sell advertising, and we are very picky

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Speaker 3: about who we are willing to work with. And that's

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Speaker 3: I mean, and that's one of the pluses of being

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Speaker 3: independent is we don't have a parent company that we

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Speaker 3: have to make money for, like we are making money

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Speaker 3: for ourselves to keep this ship afloat. So we only

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Speaker 3: work with women, gender non conforming or queer or people

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Speaker 3: of color in terms of like the books that we spotlight,

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Speaker 3: the the companies that we work with for like the

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Speaker 3: products that come with the books, because we do send

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Speaker 3: out like a sticker or like a bookmark or something

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Speaker 3: like small and cute, and we do quarterly boxes that

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Speaker 3: are full of goodies and books and those all those

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Speaker 3: things come from small marginalized identity businesses including like our

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Speaker 3: our web developer and our you know, our podcast editor

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Speaker 3: are our printer that we use for like inserts and

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Speaker 3: stickers and stuff. So like when we spend money on something,

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Speaker 3: we are doing that within our values. When we take

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Speaker 3: money from someone, I don't care who we take money

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Speaker 3: from as long as that product is aligned with us. Gosh,

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Speaker 3: and very rarely have we worked with CIS men and

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Speaker 3: CIS owned businesses, this male owned businesses. But I'm not

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Speaker 3: going to say no to if like Casper Mattresses or

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Speaker 3: something like, I'm just gonna assume their own by a

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Speaker 3: white guy. If Casper Mattress wants to, like give me

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Speaker 3: a bajillion dollars to pitch them on our podcast, like

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Speaker 3: or like a free mattress like thank you, yeah, yes,

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Speaker 3: and like one for all of our friends, you know,

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Speaker 3: like right, because you're getting me money and I feel

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Speaker 3: like that's feminist. But if it's like if it's like

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Speaker 3: a company that sells only like maga hats, absolutely not

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Speaker 3: like I don't care if you give me a bajillion dollars,

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Speaker 3: I'm not going to you know, sell ar fifteens on

434
00:25:16,720 --> 00:25:20,520
Speaker 3: our podcast. But right, but like a mattress owned by

435
00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:22,960
Speaker 3: this why guy? Probably yeah yep.

436
00:25:24,280 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: So like that's like we could be really picky.

437
00:25:26,680 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 3: But thankfully we haven't had to have run into those issues.

438
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:35,399
Speaker 3: It's the flows of money, right, It's the flow of

439
00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:38,560
Speaker 3: capitalism and like redistributing it. And that's one thing also

440
00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:43,560
Speaker 3: is like we work primarily with women owned businesses because

441
00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,520
Speaker 3: studies have shown when you put capital in the hands

442
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:49,720
Speaker 3: of a woman owned business a, you will lift generations

443
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 3: out of poverty, but be it will also be redistributed

444
00:25:52,920 --> 00:25:56,879
Speaker 3: amongst that community. So the fact that you know, we

445
00:25:56,920 --> 00:26:00,520
Speaker 3: are more likely to give our dollars, we are one

446
00:26:00,560 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 3: hundred percent likely to give our dollars to small women

447
00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:07,880
Speaker 3: and minority on businesses just means that that money continues

448
00:26:07,880 --> 00:26:12,040
Speaker 3: to do good in whatever community they serve instead of

449
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:14,640
Speaker 3: going into if we were to give money to Bezos,

450
00:26:14,680 --> 00:26:17,160
Speaker 3: for instance, that's just going into his pockets and into

451
00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:19,600
Speaker 3: his like four oh one K. Does he even have

452
00:26:19,640 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 3: a four oh one k? Probably not, like he is

453
00:26:21,400 --> 00:26:23,119
Speaker 3: a four oh one K, but like, well you know

454
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 3: what I mean, it's going into like investments, which doesn't

455
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:28,320
Speaker 3: do anybody any good except for him.

456
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:33,280
Speaker 2: So yeah, yeah, yeah, you ended up hitting on a

457
00:26:33,280 --> 00:26:35,240
Speaker 2: topic which was an inside joke for us about me

458
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,560
Speaker 2: trying to get a damn mattress from Jump like because right,

459
00:26:38,680 --> 00:26:41,560
Speaker 2: well that's hilarious. Right before I started everyone that was

460
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,080
Speaker 2: one of the big things is individual mattresses, and I

461
00:26:44,119 --> 00:26:47,080
Speaker 2: was like, I want one. That started the best.

462
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:49,360
Speaker 3: We've gotten as vibrators. We got vibrators.

463
00:26:50,359 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 2: We'll be happy with that too, but.

464
00:26:52,480 --> 00:26:54,399
Speaker 3: They were woman owned. They were a woman Latina owned,

465
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:55,040
Speaker 3: so like.

466
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 2: We had someone on who had those amazing vibrators, like,

467
00:26:57,359 --> 00:26:59,399
Speaker 2: I want one. We never got it, though I was

468
00:26:59,440 --> 00:26:59,920
Speaker 2: really hoping.

469
00:27:01,359 --> 00:27:08,800
Speaker 1: I'm sorry I paid for it, but I got it anyway.

470
00:27:08,920 --> 00:27:16,359
Speaker 1: Moving well, that's one of the interesting things about I

471
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: think about this a lot, and sometimes I think this

472
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 1: is kind of a petty thought, but sometimes I'm like, no,

473
00:27:21,160 --> 00:27:27,720
Speaker 1: this is completely legitimate. But we sometimes get teased because

474
00:27:27,760 --> 00:27:30,280
Speaker 1: we turned down a lot of ads. We really do

475
00:27:31,400 --> 00:27:36,560
Speaker 1: and there was this infamous study it so Mantha didn't

476
00:27:36,600 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: do it well. I had to fill out like this

477
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 1: huge form where you just it was. It took me

478
00:27:43,160 --> 00:27:46,639
Speaker 1: four hours and it was just like sponsors that you

479
00:27:46,720 --> 00:27:49,560
Speaker 1: might be okay with working with. And I feel like

480
00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: for people who want to uphold intersectional feminism, that was

481
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,520
Speaker 1: a homework excignment because I literally had to look up

482
00:27:58,960 --> 00:28:02,840
Speaker 1: every company yep, what they do, where do they donate

483
00:28:02,880 --> 00:28:05,280
Speaker 1: their money, all of this stuff. And I think that

484
00:28:05,400 --> 00:28:09,280
Speaker 1: people who issued it were just polly white men who

485
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040
Speaker 1: didn't think like I'm not. They're like, oh, do you

486
00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,159
Speaker 1: like this or do you not like that? Like that

487
00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,000
Speaker 1: kind of dichotomy versus wait, what do they stand for?

488
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,880
Speaker 1: What do they do? And sometimes I get a little

489
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,480
Speaker 1: grumpy because I'll hear some male colleagues of ours. We're like, oh,

490
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:24,960
Speaker 1: I just said yes to that because I like that.

491
00:28:25,040 --> 00:28:27,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, well, okay, but did you know about this

492
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:29,440
Speaker 1: right right? Right?

493
00:28:30,480 --> 00:28:33,440
Speaker 3: Did you know they single handedly caused the fires on MAUI.

494
00:28:33,240 --> 00:28:36,760
Speaker 2: Like, you know, like the content, we really would have

495
00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:39,400
Speaker 2: an ad that we said yes to two years prior

496
00:28:39,840 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 2: and then come back and go, oh, well, here's a

497
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:43,600
Speaker 2: new controversy and we can't use them now, whether it's

498
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:47,120
Speaker 2: like strike things or union things or or you recall

499
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:48,720
Speaker 2: or you found out that the CEO was a man

500
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: who did not care about people when it was branded

501
00:28:51,040 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 2: as women owned. Like there are so many things that

502
00:28:53,960 --> 00:28:57,080
Speaker 2: came back. We're like, what's happening? And then not only

503
00:28:57,080 --> 00:28:59,800
Speaker 2: do we say no, and probably Anie because Andy does

504
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: I love you Anie, She's already justified. Why we get

505
00:29:02,960 --> 00:29:05,800
Speaker 2: another pushback like are you sure? Now? Tell me why again?

506
00:29:06,080 --> 00:29:08,440
Speaker 2: Tell us why again? Like and I'm not we love

507
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:10,920
Speaker 2: our as people. Please don't think this because they're just

508
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:13,360
Speaker 2: doing their job. But the of the matter is like

509
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:16,440
Speaker 2: there is extra work to what you think. And like

510
00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,800
Speaker 2: we got another ad vetting today and I'm looking at it.

511
00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, we know this already controversy, so we

512
00:29:21,880 --> 00:29:23,920
Speaker 2: definitely probably will say you know, like all these things,

513
00:29:23,960 --> 00:29:26,160
Speaker 2: I already know what Anie said in turning it down.

514
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:28,600
Speaker 2: It was a huge company, and it's like, this is

515
00:29:28,640 --> 00:29:31,720
Speaker 2: what we have to do and then justify two or

516
00:29:31,720 --> 00:29:34,080
Speaker 2: three times about why we can't work with them.

517
00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 3: Yeah, and even and it sucks too. It's like it's

518
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,480
Speaker 3: hard for us when we are purchasing things. So for

519
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 3: the first couple of years I live in Minneapolis, we

520
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,520
Speaker 3: were using you line for our boxes. We didn't have

521
00:29:47,560 --> 00:29:50,000
Speaker 3: branded boxes. We were using you Line because they are

522
00:29:50,040 --> 00:29:52,280
Speaker 3: just across the state line and Wisconsin. I could go

523
00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:55,000
Speaker 3: pick them up, Like it was really easy. I didn't

524
00:29:55,000 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 3: have to paper shipping, and they were the cheapest on

525
00:29:57,520 --> 00:29:59,360
Speaker 3: the market. Well, they're the cheapest on the market because

526
00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 3: they're a bajillion dollar industry and they're one of Trump's

527
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,200
Speaker 3: largest donors. That family, the U Line family. As soon

528
00:30:06,240 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 3: as I learned that, I was like, like, now I

529
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:14,880
Speaker 3: have to I had to pay more to find something.

530
00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,720
Speaker 3: But it ended up being great because then I found

531
00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:20,720
Speaker 3: a family owned box printing company here in Saint Paul

532
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:24,600
Speaker 3: that they were so like, they were so wonderful right

533
00:30:24,760 --> 00:30:27,600
Speaker 3: where they like I was sick and they like brought

534
00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:30,120
Speaker 3: they brought samples to my house just so I could

535
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,880
Speaker 3: like choose the ink color and then we got the

536
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:37,040
Speaker 3: customerz like it turned out great. Shout out to Tilsner Carton.

537
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:39,840
Speaker 2: Myself was like this like an office episode of like

538
00:30:40,040 --> 00:30:44,160
Speaker 2: business owners and like they do the like and that,

539
00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:46,520
Speaker 2: but I was like, help them.

540
00:30:46,760 --> 00:30:48,840
Speaker 3: I didn't have the time at the time to do

541
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:51,400
Speaker 3: my due diligence of like vetting. It was just like

542
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 3: where everybody got their boxes from, you know, like, oh,

543
00:30:54,080 --> 00:30:57,160
Speaker 3: it was so frustrating and so now, yeah, so now

544
00:30:57,200 --> 00:30:59,080
Speaker 3: we don't use you line. And I suggest you'd not

545
00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:03,240
Speaker 3: use you line because they're a giant donor to the

546
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:04,000
Speaker 3: far right.

547
00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:06,720
Speaker 2: So there's so many conversations like that.

548
00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 3: But at least our audiences know that we are putting

549
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,880
Speaker 3: in that due diligence now, like we learn our lessons.

550
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, and when we get calls in is nice.

551
00:31:14,200 --> 00:31:17,040
Speaker 3: Yeah, And if we are doing I mean, there's only

552
00:31:17,080 --> 00:31:20,040
Speaker 3: so much work and research we can do, but we're

553
00:31:20,080 --> 00:31:22,120
Speaker 3: doing the best that we can. And I think that

554
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:25,200
Speaker 3: our audiences as an audience of yours, I know I

555
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,000
Speaker 3: appreciate it, and I also know that y'all need to

556
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:30,600
Speaker 3: make money. You can't do this for free.

557
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:34,280
Speaker 2: I'm sure people will be like, why podcasting was like

558
00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:35,120
Speaker 2: that to begin with?

559
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:48,480
Speaker 3: It was, but it's not you know.

560
00:31:48,520 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 2: One of the other things I think about especially when

561
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:52,800
Speaker 2: it comes to like feminist businesses. You want to be

562
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 2: the person who supports the small businesses, that supports the

563
00:31:56,840 --> 00:32:00,760
Speaker 2: marginalized businesses as well. And for the longest time, ATS

564
00:32:01,120 --> 00:32:04,080
Speaker 2: was the to go spot, and now you were getting

565
00:32:04,080 --> 00:32:07,040
Speaker 2: all this information about, oh, they're not being treated well.

566
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:09,640
Speaker 2: So this comes to the point of like, okay, a,

567
00:32:09,640 --> 00:32:12,520
Speaker 2: as a small owner of a business, where do you

568
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,880
Speaker 2: go b as a consumer? How do you navigate that

569
00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,080
Speaker 2: as well so that you're doing what you need to

570
00:32:18,120 --> 00:32:20,960
Speaker 2: do to truly help those businesses? Like how do you

571
00:32:21,920 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: go through all of that?

572
00:32:24,000 --> 00:32:26,400
Speaker 3: Yeah, So there are a lot of marketplaces like at

573
00:32:26,440 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 3: C and for small businesses too, there are a lot

574
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,840
Speaker 3: of like wholesale marketplaces. And one thing that I do

575
00:32:31,000 --> 00:32:33,760
Speaker 3: is like there's the ability to message like the business

576
00:32:33,760 --> 00:32:36,480
Speaker 3: owner on all of these marketplaces. At C we use

577
00:32:36,560 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: fair for a lot of our wholesale goods, and then

578
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,200
Speaker 3: I always ask them like, how do you prefer that

579
00:32:42,240 --> 00:32:45,800
Speaker 3: I make this purchase? Like would you like to invoice

580
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:48,440
Speaker 3: me directly? Because yeah, I want to make sure that

581
00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 3: they're getting all of the dollars, so Etsy's not going

582
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:53,040
Speaker 3: to hold on to, you know, six thousand dollars inevitably

583
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 3: for six months or something like what Etsy is doing

584
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,840
Speaker 3: is really frustrating for a lot of makers. So I

585
00:32:58,840 --> 00:33:00,840
Speaker 3: would just go, you know, if I see something that

586
00:33:00,880 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: I really like, absolutely message the creator and just say

587
00:33:06,400 --> 00:33:08,400
Speaker 3: how what is the best way for me to support

588
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 3: you and and make it as easy as possible for them.

589
00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:15,160
Speaker 3: It's also like hard to do and it's it's time consuming.

590
00:33:15,360 --> 00:33:18,040
Speaker 3: So they're on Etsy for a reason, and so I'm

591
00:33:18,040 --> 00:33:19,680
Speaker 3: sure they're not going to be like, well, don't buy

592
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 3: from Etsy. They would rather you buy from Etsy than

593
00:33:21,920 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 3: not buy it, all right, So if you don't have

594
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,760
Speaker 3: the time or energy or spoons to spend on you know,

595
00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:29,840
Speaker 3: going out of your way to message the artist or

596
00:33:29,880 --> 00:33:33,640
Speaker 3: the creator like, it's fine, But if you do have

597
00:33:33,640 --> 00:33:35,720
Speaker 3: that extra energy to spend, please.

598
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:37,800
Speaker 2: Do Essentially, Like what it comes down to is, I

599
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:39,840
Speaker 2: know there's a lot of small businesses and trying to

600
00:33:39,960 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 2: take off. Essentially they're hoping that they're they're gonna make

601
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 2: the the gold mine of being viral. I know that's

602
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: the new thing, and that's let's just be real honest,

603
00:33:48,760 --> 00:33:51,920
Speaker 2: that's rare. That's not going to happen to most small businesses.

604
00:33:51,960 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: As much as we would love it. I know, like

605
00:33:53,440 --> 00:33:55,360
Speaker 2: the small restaurants are hoping to buy the Keith Lee

606
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 2: of TikTok will come through and and like just blow

607
00:33:58,040 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 2: up their business. But that's that's a rare occasion for

608
00:34:00,560 --> 00:34:02,960
Speaker 2: any business owner who's trying to be especially women, because

609
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,200
Speaker 2: we know that they are the least likely to get

610
00:34:06,760 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 2: any help when it comes to advertising any of that.

611
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,399
Speaker 2: How what's the best route for them to have their

612
00:34:12,400 --> 00:34:15,000
Speaker 2: business take off or at least to be profitable.

613
00:34:15,680 --> 00:34:18,239
Speaker 3: Yeah, oh, that's okay, that's excellent. That's an excellent question.

614
00:34:18,960 --> 00:34:21,360
Speaker 3: First off, I will say that even going viral doesn't

615
00:34:21,400 --> 00:34:27,120
Speaker 3: do We have had several of our TikTok videos, you know,

616
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:33,439
Speaker 3: get five hundred thousand, a million views. It barely moves

617
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,640
Speaker 3: the needle for us. We will get a lot of traffic,

618
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 3: but it doesn't necessarily traffic doesn't equal sales. Right, We'll

619
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,440
Speaker 3: get a lot of followers, followers, you can't you can't

620
00:34:42,640 --> 00:34:46,640
Speaker 3: make money on followers. So it's like converting virality is

621
00:34:46,760 --> 00:34:50,919
Speaker 3: really hard for a lot of people. So there's that.

622
00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,560
Speaker 3: But I also think that there are so many really

623
00:34:54,600 --> 00:35:00,720
Speaker 3: really cool organizations that are created just for small business owners.

624
00:35:02,080 --> 00:35:05,560
Speaker 3: Insert identity here, right, if that's queer small business owners,

625
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:08,760
Speaker 3: if that's black small business owners and women's small business

626
00:35:08,760 --> 00:35:11,640
Speaker 3: owners have Like there are so many resources, and I'm

627
00:35:11,680 --> 00:35:14,560
Speaker 3: gonna shout out a couple of them in particular. I

628
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:16,799
Speaker 3: was a part of the Tory Birch Foundation Fellowship in

629
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:21,400
Speaker 3: twenty twenty one and they select it's founded by Tory Birch,

630
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:24,360
Speaker 3: and she actually created her fashion line so she could

631
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 3: give back. This is what I'm saying, Like women do

632
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:30,359
Speaker 3: cool with their businesses and their money. Like she she

633
00:35:30,560 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 3: likes fashion, but she was like, but I want my

634
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:36,280
Speaker 3: fashion to do something and like support other woman business owners.

635
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:40,640
Speaker 3: And so she launched the Tory Birch Foundation, which focuses

636
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:44,279
Speaker 3: solely on women owned small businesses and getting them up

637
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:46,600
Speaker 3: off the ground and giving them the resources that they

638
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 3: need to succeed. And so every year they pick fifty

639
00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:53,000
Speaker 3: women owned small businesses across the country and I from

640
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:54,680
Speaker 3: this book club was one of them in twenty twenty one.

641
00:35:55,280 --> 00:36:00,319
Speaker 3: And it's a cohort of women owned businesses from all

642
00:36:00,320 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 3: different industries from you know, finance, tech to restaurants to

643
00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:13,560
Speaker 3: roofing companies, and we all come together online to learn

644
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:15,879
Speaker 3: the basics of business, learn the ins and outs learn

645
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,919
Speaker 3: new skills. But also I think the most important thing

646
00:36:19,040 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 3: that comes out of these kind of incubators or accelerators

647
00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:24,640
Speaker 3: or fellowship programs is the connections that you make with

648
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,280
Speaker 3: other small businesses. Like I have made so many close

649
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:31,160
Speaker 3: friends through these kinds of things who will be there

650
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:33,719
Speaker 3: to support me. They're just a text message away, you know.

651
00:36:33,920 --> 00:36:36,600
Speaker 3: Or we have a very active WhatsApp group that is

652
00:36:36,680 --> 00:36:38,799
Speaker 3: just like I have to mute it most of the

653
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:43,200
Speaker 3: time because it is so so active, which is lovely.

654
00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:43,800
Speaker 1: Right.

655
00:36:44,120 --> 00:36:49,880
Speaker 3: So I think that women especially tend to lean on

656
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:55,959
Speaker 3: their communities or or ought to learn how to lean

657
00:36:56,000 --> 00:36:58,560
Speaker 3: on our communities for support in all sorts of ways.

658
00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,120
Speaker 3: Whatever that means, Like, hey, does anybody have like a

659
00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:05,160
Speaker 3: marketing professional? I mean just like just yesterday I got

660
00:37:05,160 --> 00:37:08,640
Speaker 3: an email from somebody in the Tory britsh Fellowship that

661
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 3: was like, Hey, I'm looking for somebody who specifically does

662
00:37:11,760 --> 00:37:18,160
Speaker 3: you know CpG consumer package goods sales through Klavio, which

663
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:20,200
Speaker 3: is like an email client. And I was like, I

664
00:37:20,280 --> 00:37:24,960
Speaker 3: actually have somebody who works with integrations with WU commerce,

665
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 3: Like these are very very specific asks. It's like, oh wait,

666
00:37:29,280 --> 00:37:31,360
Speaker 3: there's somebody in this group that knows exactly what you

667
00:37:31,440 --> 00:37:33,840
Speaker 3: need and like can make that introduction. So it's just

668
00:37:33,840 --> 00:37:37,240
Speaker 3: a way to like to network and to like grow

669
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:41,960
Speaker 3: your connections so you have you have those resources when

670
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,920
Speaker 3: you need them. So yeah, the Torribrtch Foundation has been

671
00:37:46,040 --> 00:37:49,200
Speaker 3: fantastic the connections that I've made there. But also there

672
00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:53,279
Speaker 3: are local organizations like this too. So I'm also part

673
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:59,600
Speaker 3: of Lunar Startups, which is just Minnesota based and they

674
00:37:59,640 --> 00:38:04,160
Speaker 3: work with under estimated and underrepresented founders, so they specifically

675
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,680
Speaker 3: work with people of color, women and queer folks. So

676
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:09,759
Speaker 3: I was a part of that. During the pandemic, we

677
00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:13,719
Speaker 3: started March like third of twenty twenty in person in

678
00:38:13,840 --> 00:38:16,200
Speaker 3: Saint Paul, and then the world cut out and we

679
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:20,399
Speaker 3: all moved to Zoom crying, and it was great. We

680
00:38:20,400 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 3: were all in the trenches together at least like fifteen

681
00:38:23,040 --> 00:38:25,319
Speaker 3: you know, small business owners in the Twin Cities, We're like,

682
00:38:25,320 --> 00:38:25,759
Speaker 3: what do we need?

683
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:26,520
Speaker 1: Everything sucks.

684
00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 3: So I was so glad to have that resource because

685
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:30,960
Speaker 3: I don't know what I would have done otherwise. So

686
00:38:31,000 --> 00:38:36,000
Speaker 3: it's just like, building these communities is so necessary for

687
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:40,400
Speaker 3: small feminist business owners because we cannot do this in

688
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,000
Speaker 3: a vacuum. But we require. That's one thing that we

689
00:38:43,080 --> 00:38:45,200
Speaker 3: learned in the pandemic, or we didn't warn the pandemic

690
00:38:45,239 --> 00:38:47,160
Speaker 3: that we should have learned, was like, we need to

691
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,160
Speaker 3: take care of the community's needs in order to take

692
00:38:49,160 --> 00:38:51,399
Speaker 3: care of our own needs. And until we take care

693
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,480
Speaker 3: of the community around us, you know whatever that means, however,

694
00:38:54,480 --> 00:38:58,600
Speaker 3: you to find community like, we cannot succeed full stop.

695
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:00,920
Speaker 3: So what is it? But yeah, how do we take

696
00:39:00,960 --> 00:39:02,520
Speaker 3: care of everybody's needs in order to take care of

697
00:39:02,520 --> 00:39:05,239
Speaker 3: our own needs? I think Robin waal Chimer said it

698
00:39:05,520 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 3: best in Braiding Sweet Grass. It's my favorite, one of

699
00:39:08,600 --> 00:39:11,200
Speaker 3: my favorite lines of any book ever. She says that

700
00:39:11,280 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 3: all flourishing is mutual. We cannot flourish until we are

701
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:21,640
Speaker 3: in all of it together flourishing. There's no individual flourishing

702
00:39:22,320 --> 00:39:22,680
Speaker 3: like that.

703
00:39:24,480 --> 00:39:29,360
Speaker 1: And it's true. The pandemic really showcased for like small businesses.

704
00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:33,960
Speaker 1: It started that conversation of like, oh, well, we've been

705
00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: kind of pushing this to the side, ignoring this for

706
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,359
Speaker 1: so long, and now we have we're trying to have

707
00:39:40,400 --> 00:39:43,640
Speaker 1: some conversations about it, some more healthy or helpful than others.

708
00:39:44,239 --> 00:39:47,480
Speaker 1: But there was that aspect I did want to touch

709
00:39:47,520 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 1: on and I'm hoping that this will give you some

710
00:39:52,040 --> 00:39:55,360
Speaker 1: room to really rant because it's something that bothers me.

711
00:39:56,680 --> 00:39:59,120
Speaker 1: Is a lot of times, Samantha kind of alluded to it.

712
00:40:00,160 --> 00:40:04,239
Speaker 1: Because we're feminist podcasts, we're women moms in the name,

713
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:11,440
Speaker 1: we get a lot of ad requests from businesses that

714
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,560
Speaker 1: are pretending to be feminists or any any like intersection

715
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,920
Speaker 1: with it, like queer, Like during Black History Month, all

716
00:40:19,960 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 1: of this happens, and it's just like I've multiple times

717
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:26,920
Speaker 1: been like, okay, but you're saying you're donating this, what

718
00:40:26,960 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: are you donating it to? And then I never hear

719
00:40:29,400 --> 00:40:35,960
Speaker 1: anything again. What are your thoughts on the people who

720
00:40:35,960 --> 00:40:41,040
Speaker 1: are trying to use this feminist business model to pretend

721
00:40:41,520 --> 00:40:44,919
Speaker 1: and to cash in, but are actually like the most

722
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,759
Speaker 1: superficial things.

723
00:40:49,960 --> 00:40:53,520
Speaker 3: Yes, yes, let me, let me get out my soapbox.

724
00:40:56,120 --> 00:40:59,759
Speaker 3: You're alluding to incredibly performative feminism, and it is most

725
00:40:59,840 --> 00:41:02,239
Speaker 3: like white feminism if we're gonna keep it in the

726
00:41:02,680 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 3: realm of feminist we get so many, so many book

727
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:13,320
Speaker 3: pitches in particular that are like unleash the Goddess within,

728
00:41:13,680 --> 00:41:18,640
Speaker 3: or like your Warrior Woman says Rar, or like boss Babe.

729
00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 3: But how to start your girl boss empire. And it's like,

730
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:23,440
Speaker 3: none of those things are feminist. That is so disgusting.

731
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:30,319
Speaker 3: Those are so neoliberal, capitalist junk. Can we get to

732
00:41:30,400 --> 00:41:33,400
Speaker 3: the second and third layer of this because your surface

733
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:35,799
Speaker 3: layer of white feminism is I'm allergic to it, like

734
00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 3: please please step away. Yeah, it makes me very angry.

735
00:41:41,480 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 3: But the thing is like I just simply say, like,

736
00:41:45,320 --> 00:41:48,319
Speaker 3: thank you so much. This does not align. We are

737
00:41:48,320 --> 00:41:52,440
Speaker 3: really trying to amplify the voices of folks on the margins,

738
00:41:53,640 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 3: not let's be honest, like rich white, blonde yoga instructing

739
00:42:00,080 --> 00:42:04,799
Speaker 3: green smoothie drinking privileged women. And if you are that,

740
00:42:05,480 --> 00:42:07,640
Speaker 3: I'm so glad that you are here because you need

741
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:10,799
Speaker 3: to You need this kind of information in your life.

742
00:42:11,080 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 3: The stuff that stuff, that stuff mom never told you,

743
00:42:13,880 --> 00:42:17,800
Speaker 3: you know, covers It's like that's one way to broaden

744
00:42:17,960 --> 00:42:22,319
Speaker 3: your horizons. And and yeah, there are a lot of

745
00:42:22,920 --> 00:42:25,399
Speaker 3: companies out there and organizations out there that just give

746
00:42:25,440 --> 00:42:30,840
Speaker 3: lip service to whatever is in the zeitgeist right that

747
00:42:30,920 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 3: they're raising money or they donate to, you know, we

748
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:38,760
Speaker 3: say social justice organizations. We say we donate to social

749
00:42:38,840 --> 00:42:41,680
Speaker 3: justice organizations every month, and we don't name what they

750
00:42:41,719 --> 00:42:47,480
Speaker 3: are publicly because for a number of reasons, because we're

751
00:42:47,520 --> 00:42:50,279
Speaker 3: not marketing on that, like we're not using that as

752
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:54,400
Speaker 3: a marketing tool, and so our members know where the

753
00:42:54,440 --> 00:42:57,680
Speaker 3: money is going. But also I am a strong believer.

754
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:00,520
Speaker 3: I grew up Catholic. This is where I wanted. I

755
00:43:00,560 --> 00:43:04,759
Speaker 3: grew up Catholic and like social justice Catholic, though like

756
00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:06,080
Speaker 3: the real the.

757
00:43:06,000 --> 00:43:13,760
Speaker 4: Reals, like everybody get some emails. I'm just kidding, sorry,

758
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:16,680
Speaker 4: but not like but not not Catholic or it's like

759
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,920
Speaker 4: anti abortion Catholic, but but like feed the feed the

760
00:43:19,960 --> 00:43:22,000
Speaker 4: hungry and clothe the naked.

761
00:43:21,719 --> 00:43:24,520
Speaker 3: Catholic is like how I grew up. And one of

762
00:43:24,560 --> 00:43:27,760
Speaker 3: the things that really stuck with me from Catholic school

763
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:31,080
Speaker 3: is when there's a there's a verse in the Bible.

764
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:33,719
Speaker 3: And don't ask me what part of the Bible, I

765
00:43:33,760 --> 00:43:36,000
Speaker 3: have no clue at this point, but there's a verse

766
00:43:36,040 --> 00:43:38,400
Speaker 3: where it says, when you pray, go into a closet

767
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:42,040
Speaker 3: and pray in solitude, nobody needs to know that you're praying,

768
00:43:42,120 --> 00:43:45,200
Speaker 3: Like you're not praying for everybody's brownie points. That's performative.

769
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:49,320
Speaker 3: And the same thing goes with our our social justice

770
00:43:49,400 --> 00:43:53,160
Speaker 3: and our activism, like yes, we need to be out marching. Yes,

771
00:43:53,280 --> 00:43:55,960
Speaker 3: we need to use our privilege for good those of

772
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:58,080
Speaker 3: us who have privilege. Yes, we need to put our

773
00:43:58,120 --> 00:44:00,520
Speaker 3: bodies on the lines, especially white bodies on the lines

774
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:03,239
Speaker 3: in front of people of color. Like, yes, those are

775
00:44:03,719 --> 00:44:05,919
Speaker 3: things we need to be doing. And at the same time,

776
00:44:06,239 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 3: your entire Facebook feed doesn't need to know that you

777
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,560
Speaker 3: just donated fifty dollars to plan Parenthood. That's who is

778
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 3: that doing. That's just making you feel good. And so

779
00:44:14,120 --> 00:44:16,759
Speaker 3: I think a lot of businesses think that, you know,

780
00:44:18,640 --> 00:44:21,000
Speaker 3: saying that they're going to donate X, Y and Z

781
00:44:21,400 --> 00:44:24,600
Speaker 3: is just like it's just lip service, it's just a

782
00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:29,400
Speaker 3: marketing ploy And it's really frustrating for me to see

783
00:44:29,440 --> 00:44:32,480
Speaker 3: as a company who has donated tens of thousands of

784
00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:37,360
Speaker 3: dollars of our profit to social justice organizations across the world,

785
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:40,200
Speaker 3: but we don't use it. We're doing it in our

786
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:44,840
Speaker 3: closet and praying God, I'm so sorry, and this is

787
00:44:44,840 --> 00:44:45,760
Speaker 3: how I get canceled.

788
00:44:46,080 --> 00:45:05,279
Speaker 1: So so you know, Kncel, it is so frustrating and

789
00:45:05,360 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: I can't we can't go into this because it'll become

790
00:45:07,600 --> 00:45:10,319
Speaker 1: a whole railroad going off the railroad situation. But it's

791
00:45:10,400 --> 00:45:14,359
Speaker 1: like I hate that. I'm into what you're doing. I'm

792
00:45:14,360 --> 00:45:16,800
Speaker 1: into what you're saying, and I asked for any details

793
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:20,879
Speaker 1: and then none come forth. And then if they do,

794
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:23,279
Speaker 1: if you're like I don't know, bud Light and you

795
00:45:23,560 --> 00:45:27,719
Speaker 1: do this thing and then they freak out and backtrack immediately,

796
00:45:27,800 --> 00:45:31,840
Speaker 1: like it's like illuminating because it tells me you literally

797
00:45:31,880 --> 00:45:33,960
Speaker 1: have never thought about what it must be like to

798
00:45:34,000 --> 00:45:37,520
Speaker 1: be a transperson in this case and all of the

799
00:45:37,560 --> 00:45:40,640
Speaker 1: backlash that might be, but you thought it would be

800
00:45:40,800 --> 00:45:44,920
Speaker 1: cool to cash it. Like it's like uninformed. It's like

801
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: not even it's malicious, but it's almost more uninformed than malicious.

802
00:45:49,560 --> 00:45:54,000
Speaker 3: First off, that woman in particular, Dylan who just got

803
00:45:55,120 --> 00:45:58,319
Speaker 3: brutally attacked online because she got bud Light, said to

804
00:45:58,360 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 3: her like that's just my heart goes out to her.

805
00:46:02,320 --> 00:46:05,720
Speaker 3: What I would prefer bud Light Anheuser Busch and MBEV

806
00:46:05,840 --> 00:46:09,520
Speaker 3: who owns like every major beer company in this country,

807
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:12,759
Speaker 3: and beyond, what I would prefer to see them do

808
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:16,560
Speaker 3: is have trans folks on their board of directors, you know,

809
00:46:16,719 --> 00:46:20,200
Speaker 3: like I don't give a if they are giving a

810
00:46:20,280 --> 00:46:24,839
Speaker 3: can of beer to Dylan on TikTok. What I give

811
00:46:25,200 --> 00:46:28,720
Speaker 3: about is if you are including their voices in decision

812
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:31,640
Speaker 3: making rooms, like transfolts need to be in the work

813
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:35,560
Speaker 3: room where it happens, you know, like it's not just yeah,

814
00:46:35,640 --> 00:46:38,719
Speaker 3: that is the definition of performative. If they had had

815
00:46:38,760 --> 00:46:44,320
Speaker 3: a trans person in their like marketing, the influencer outreach division,

816
00:46:44,440 --> 00:46:45,520
Speaker 3: like that wouldn't have happened.

817
00:46:47,400 --> 00:46:50,479
Speaker 2: That's kind of the epitome of like the privilege that yeah,

818
00:46:50,600 --> 00:46:53,320
Speaker 2: people don't realize there is that the fact that Annheuser

819
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:56,480
Speaker 2: Busch they had a little bit of backlash. All they

820
00:46:56,480 --> 00:46:59,520
Speaker 2: did was stay silent, literally allowing this woman to take

821
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:02,640
Speaker 2: all the threats and harassment and being like, yep, oh,

822
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:05,480
Speaker 2: well that didn't work. That didn't well, it did partially

823
00:47:05,520 --> 00:47:07,600
Speaker 2: pay out for a minute because there were supporters for

824
00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:12,000
Speaker 2: the second and then their silence and apology shows not

825
00:47:12,040 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: only their blindness, ignorance and harmful behavior in everything that

826
00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:20,719
Speaker 2: they just did without again talking to the right community.

827
00:47:20,719 --> 00:47:22,960
Speaker 2: Who did they talk to. They're like, this person's a

828
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 2: TikTok famous little let's send a beer, which we already

829
00:47:27,920 --> 00:47:29,719
Speaker 2: know all the miss on that and we're not going

830
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,440
Speaker 2: to talk about. But that kind of comes back to

831
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:36,120
Speaker 2: this whole conversation of like who is this for? Why

832
00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:38,520
Speaker 2: are you doing this? And what does this do? And

833
00:47:38,560 --> 00:47:41,560
Speaker 2: then when we look at who may be a woman,

834
00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:43,799
Speaker 2: and this is the whole conversation. Ay, and I've had

835
00:47:43,840 --> 00:47:46,920
Speaker 2: plenty of times women supporting women, but what are these

836
00:47:46,920 --> 00:47:49,600
Speaker 2: women actually doing and what are they doing that is

837
00:47:49,640 --> 00:47:52,319
Speaker 2: good for other women and other marginalized folks. So we

838
00:47:52,400 --> 00:47:54,720
Speaker 2: have to backtrack, like, no, it can't just be simply

839
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:57,760
Speaker 2: this and this. There's a lot of women own businesses.

840
00:47:57,800 --> 00:47:59,960
Speaker 2: Like I think about this often because again coming back,

841
00:48:00,040 --> 00:48:03,080
Speaker 2: that's because I tried to be is whatever. Well, I'm like, yeah,

842
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:05,480
Speaker 2: but this person, Oh she's got she's got some things

843
00:48:05,480 --> 00:48:06,880
Speaker 2: on here that I do not want to support. She

844
00:48:06,880 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 2: has anti abortion, she has all these things, and I'm like,

845
00:48:09,320 --> 00:48:11,239
Speaker 2: I can't support that. I have to dig in to

846
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,160
Speaker 2: see who she's selling to or someone who has no standards.

847
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,120
Speaker 2: And I get to the point of like, yeah, you

848
00:48:16,160 --> 00:48:18,040
Speaker 2: have to make a business, I get it, but you're

849
00:48:18,080 --> 00:48:21,719
Speaker 2: willing to put mega stuff onto your stuff and then

850
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:24,640
Speaker 2: sell it and then also Black Lives matter that doesn't work.

851
00:48:25,080 --> 00:48:27,120
Speaker 3: Yeah, there was that that reminds me like when we

852
00:48:27,120 --> 00:48:30,200
Speaker 3: were doing whatever I'm I was purchasing for one of

853
00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:32,279
Speaker 3: our boxes ones. There was a product that I thought

854
00:48:32,280 --> 00:48:33,840
Speaker 3: was so cute and it came in all these different

855
00:48:33,880 --> 00:48:36,400
Speaker 3: designs and I was like, ooh, so close to purchasing,

856
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:38,440
Speaker 3: and then I kept going and scrolling and I was like,

857
00:48:38,640 --> 00:48:43,240
Speaker 3: uh uh oh when you go to the review.

858
00:48:44,320 --> 00:48:46,200
Speaker 2: So you go through the reviews and you see who

859
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,400
Speaker 2: she's You're like, ma'am, oh.

860
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,399
Speaker 3: We're in Minneapolis. We are not supporting somebody who has

861
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:54,879
Speaker 3: Blue Lives Matter on there.

862
00:48:57,600 --> 00:48:59,480
Speaker 2: That's the other part to that, like we have to

863
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:01,400
Speaker 2: hold our own accountable as well. And I say this

864
00:49:01,480 --> 00:49:05,520
Speaker 2: as an Asian woman who all this rhetorics and very

865
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:07,879
Speaker 2: very like white supremacist rhetoric that I'm like, I do

866
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:09,960
Speaker 2: not support this. I do not support them just because

867
00:49:09,960 --> 00:49:13,360
Speaker 2: they're an Asian woman. We have to have that conversation

868
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,360
Speaker 2: of like that fine line of just because it seems

869
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:19,000
Speaker 2: okay because on the outside, this is a person of color,

870
00:49:19,080 --> 00:49:21,359
Speaker 2: she's an Asian woman, Okay, cool, cool, cool cool. Even

871
00:49:21,480 --> 00:49:23,480
Speaker 2: queer people you're like, oh they're queer. Oh, but they're

872
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:27,879
Speaker 2: they're staunchly still somehow republican. Like I don't I don't

873
00:49:27,920 --> 00:49:30,000
Speaker 2: get this, but I have to know that this is

874
00:49:30,080 --> 00:49:34,040
Speaker 2: not necessarily just supporting, like that's right, you have to

875
00:49:34,080 --> 00:49:34,680
Speaker 2: dig deeper.

876
00:49:35,040 --> 00:49:38,720
Speaker 3: Holes come in every shade race and you know color,

877
00:49:38,840 --> 00:49:41,960
Speaker 3: like everybody can has the potential to be a total.

878
00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:49,400
Speaker 2: Yes, that's how I live. Everybody's probably an I'm just kidding.

879
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:55,399
Speaker 3: I'm just kidding. So yeah, I like to think that

880
00:49:55,760 --> 00:49:59,520
Speaker 3: I want to support, you know, first and foremost intersectional

881
00:50:00,280 --> 00:50:07,160
Speaker 3: progressive businesses, just personally. But yeah, and if that's not available,

882
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:10,920
Speaker 3: a minority owned business, a woman owned business is better

883
00:50:10,960 --> 00:50:18,080
Speaker 3: than again, it's better than Amazon. But yes, being mindful

884
00:50:18,120 --> 00:50:21,120
Speaker 3: of like what's that person likely going to do and

885
00:50:21,120 --> 00:50:23,200
Speaker 3: support with their dollars is really important to me.

886
00:50:23,440 --> 00:50:26,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I do think you said something earlier that

887
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:30,080
Speaker 1: I hadn't really thought about it before. But I often

888
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,239
Speaker 1: complain about this extra work we have to do, and

889
00:50:32,280 --> 00:50:35,759
Speaker 1: I complain like it's like hm hmm, I wish I

890
00:50:35,760 --> 00:50:37,640
Speaker 1: could just be like, oh, yeah, I like that thing.

891
00:50:37,960 --> 00:50:41,520
Speaker 1: That's fine. But you're right, it does. I have heard

892
00:50:41,520 --> 00:50:44,400
Speaker 1: from friends who have told me like, I like that,

893
00:50:44,520 --> 00:50:47,040
Speaker 1: I know that you do that. It makes me feel better.

894
00:50:47,920 --> 00:50:50,160
Speaker 1: And that's not to say we've made mistakes. We've said

895
00:50:50,200 --> 00:50:53,200
Speaker 1: yes to things that later turned out to be terrible

896
00:50:54,680 --> 00:50:58,440
Speaker 1: and we try to learn from that and be like, Okay,

897
00:50:58,520 --> 00:51:00,640
Speaker 1: not that one again, because a lot of times in

898
00:51:00,680 --> 00:51:02,479
Speaker 1: our company they'll be like, you said yes to it once,

899
00:51:02,680 --> 00:51:08,080
Speaker 1: surely yes again No, not always, but it is like,

900
00:51:09,680 --> 00:51:11,760
Speaker 1: it is a lot of work, and I don't think

901
00:51:12,440 --> 00:51:16,640
Speaker 1: everyone has the time to do it, yea, or even

902
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:20,399
Speaker 1: the emotional because we were talking about this the other day,

903
00:51:20,440 --> 00:51:23,720
Speaker 1: like women typically or marginalized people typically are more drained

904
00:51:23,760 --> 00:51:27,960
Speaker 1: from what from the patriarchy, from white supremacy and all

905
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:28,920
Speaker 1: this stuff.

906
00:51:28,880 --> 00:51:29,960
Speaker 3: What's happening in the world.

907
00:51:30,040 --> 00:51:33,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, so maybe you don't have the time to vet

908
00:51:34,400 --> 00:51:36,520
Speaker 1: certain things. So I do think that is a value.

909
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:38,640
Speaker 1: I think that's something. I'm glad that you said that.

910
00:51:38,680 --> 00:51:41,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna you put a more positive spin on this

911
00:51:41,800 --> 00:51:42,840
Speaker 1: whole thing for me.

912
00:51:44,480 --> 00:51:46,920
Speaker 3: And it comes from a place of privilege, right that

913
00:51:47,000 --> 00:51:51,080
Speaker 3: we I in particular have the time to do this

914
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:56,080
Speaker 3: research and can afford it. And that's what's really I

915
00:51:56,160 --> 00:52:00,719
Speaker 3: don't want to discount the privilege that I hold to

916
00:52:00,880 --> 00:52:03,839
Speaker 3: be really mindful as a as an agent of capitalism,

917
00:52:04,080 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 3: because it's not not everybody has this privilege. Not everybody

918
00:52:10,120 --> 00:52:12,800
Speaker 3: can afford to shop at you know, small mom and

919
00:52:12,840 --> 00:52:17,440
Speaker 3: pop grocery stores because they are more expensive. If Amazon

920
00:52:17,440 --> 00:52:21,120
Speaker 3: and Walmart are what you can budget for, I am

921
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:25,239
Speaker 3: fully supportive of that. You know, that is where you

922
00:52:25,320 --> 00:52:29,680
Speaker 3: are in your life in the society to society sucks, Like,

923
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,200
Speaker 3: don't feel bad if that's if that's where you are,

924
00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:37,480
Speaker 3: Please don't feel bad. Shame is not a tool of

925
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:40,760
Speaker 3: social justice, right, Like, it's not going to help anybody

926
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,880
Speaker 3: for me to say, like you're shopping at Walmart? Hell yeah,

927
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:49,560
Speaker 3: like some some people have to. And that's okay because

928
00:52:49,640 --> 00:52:54,640
Speaker 3: I do have a little bit more time and resources.

929
00:52:55,160 --> 00:52:57,560
Speaker 3: I don't need to. But I am glad that it

930
00:52:57,600 --> 00:53:01,080
Speaker 3: exists for the people who need it. And that same

931
00:53:01,120 --> 00:53:08,200
Speaker 3: goes for every institution, right that there are institutions that exist,

932
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:10,920
Speaker 3: there are stores that exist for the people who need it,

933
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,040
Speaker 3: and I'm glad they exist. Do I wish? Do I

934
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,239
Speaker 3: wish they had more ethical practices? Absolutely, But that's something

935
00:53:19,280 --> 00:53:21,400
Speaker 3: I can do with my resources and my privilege is

936
00:53:21,480 --> 00:53:24,240
Speaker 3: to push back and to call make the phone calls

937
00:53:24,320 --> 00:53:28,239
Speaker 3: and to you know, say and demand better of these

938
00:53:28,239 --> 00:53:33,239
Speaker 3: companies so that they can continue to support underprivileged communities.

939
00:53:33,520 --> 00:53:36,080
Speaker 1: Yes, this is true. I think about this every time

940
00:53:37,280 --> 00:53:41,480
Speaker 1: voting comes up, which you've probably heard is rough in Georgia.

941
00:53:41,719 --> 00:53:45,319
Speaker 1: Is that like, I don't know how people who have

942
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:49,239
Speaker 1: kids who work many jobs have the time to vote

943
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:51,200
Speaker 1: but also have the time to research who to vote for,

944
00:53:51,520 --> 00:53:53,439
Speaker 1: because a lot of times it'll be like I can't

945
00:53:53,480 --> 00:53:56,400
Speaker 1: find information about any of this, so I'm like, I

946
00:53:56,440 --> 00:53:59,800
Speaker 1: guess this guy I don't know. So that is a

947
00:53:59,800 --> 00:54:06,759
Speaker 1: big conversation of It's frustrating because it's like the Walmarts

948
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:09,960
Speaker 1: of the world are playing a part and keeping us

949
00:54:10,040 --> 00:54:15,080
Speaker 1: in this situation, but also they are important because we

950
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:19,600
Speaker 1: are in the situation. It's it's frustrating, but yeah, I

951
00:54:19,600 --> 00:54:23,880
Speaker 1: mean it is, especially you know, we're in city, but

952
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:27,319
Speaker 1: when I'm just in the small town, it's only game

953
00:54:27,320 --> 00:54:29,200
Speaker 1: in town. That was like that was.

954
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:33,040
Speaker 3: It exactly same? Yeah, I grew up in northern Indiana,

955
00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:36,480
Speaker 3: and it's like, you got your groceries at Walmart, you

956
00:54:36,880 --> 00:54:39,799
Speaker 3: bought your you know, incidentals on Amazon. It's just what

957
00:54:39,920 --> 00:54:42,319
Speaker 3: you do. There was a Barnes and Noble, like that's

958
00:54:42,640 --> 00:54:43,680
Speaker 3: that was the bookstore.

959
00:54:43,960 --> 00:54:46,480
Speaker 1: Yes, and you go hang out there and you were cool.

960
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:55,080
Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, you get your Starbucks. Yes, that's fine, fine,

961
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:58,360
Speaker 3: because that's that's what is available, right, and that's what

962
00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,040
Speaker 3: is in a budget. And and yeah, I'm never going

963
00:55:01,120 --> 00:55:03,040
Speaker 3: to be here to shame somebody for doing what they

964
00:55:03,080 --> 00:55:03,839
Speaker 3: need to do to get by.

965
00:55:04,440 --> 00:55:08,400
Speaker 1: Yes, well, thank you so much, Renee for coming on

966
00:55:08,480 --> 00:55:11,600
Speaker 1: here to spend the light. You are a friend. Officially, Yes,

967
00:55:11,680 --> 00:55:14,160
Speaker 1: we could talk forever, but I suppose we should seriously

968
00:55:15,280 --> 00:55:18,160
Speaker 1: just to sign off for this one. But let's hang

969
00:55:18,200 --> 00:55:20,480
Speaker 1: out and just complain. I feel like I'm in a

970
00:55:20,520 --> 00:55:23,640
Speaker 1: complaining movie, which is rare.

971
00:55:23,520 --> 00:55:28,400
Speaker 2: For Me's a hobby that I have, complaining that.

972
00:55:30,520 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 1: Yes, thank you, thank you, thank you. Where can the

973
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:34,480
Speaker 1: good listeners find you?

974
00:55:35,040 --> 00:55:37,720
Speaker 3: The best place to go is Feminist book Club dot com.

975
00:55:37,840 --> 00:55:40,280
Speaker 3: We're on Instagram at your Feminist book Club because Feminist

976
00:55:40,280 --> 00:55:43,239
Speaker 3: book Club is taken on Instagram. But Feminist book Club

977
00:55:43,280 --> 00:55:45,240
Speaker 3: is available on TikTok, so you can find this famous

978
00:55:45,239 --> 00:55:49,279
Speaker 3: book club on TikTok. And uh, yeah, everything everything's on

979
00:55:49,280 --> 00:55:51,400
Speaker 3: our website though. That's the best, the best place to go.

980
00:55:51,760 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: Yes, and and you have show notes, which I am

981
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:55,279
Speaker 1: very jealous of.

982
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,600
Speaker 3: They're not extensive, but they are we have.

983
00:56:00,040 --> 00:56:04,880
Speaker 1: I'm very jealous. Yes, just go check it out, listeners.

984
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:09,319
Speaker 1: It's amazing. Also, we will be on the show. We'll

985
00:56:09,360 --> 00:56:14,279
Speaker 1: see how this goes. Yes. In the meantime, if you

986
00:56:14,280 --> 00:56:16,680
Speaker 1: would like to contact us, you can Our email is

987
00:56:16,680 --> 00:56:18,960
Speaker 1: stuff India, mom Stuff at iheartmeda dot com. You can

988
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,880
Speaker 1: find us on Twitter at mom Stuff Podcasts, or on

989
00:56:20,920 --> 00:56:23,520
Speaker 1: Instagram and TikTok at Stuff I've Never Told You. We

990
00:56:23,600 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 1: have a tea public store you can buy merch on there. Also,

991
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,240
Speaker 1: we have a book coming out well you can reorder

992
00:56:30,239 --> 00:56:32,640
Speaker 1: it Stuff You should read Books dot com. Thanks as

993
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:35,879
Speaker 1: always to our super producer Christina, our executive producer Maya,

994
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,880
Speaker 1: and our contributor Joey. Thank you and thanks to you

995
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:40,799
Speaker 1: for listening Stuff I Never Told You This Question by

996
00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:42,400
Speaker 1: heart Radio. For more podcast from my heart Radio, you

997
00:56:42,440 --> 00:56:44,439
Speaker 1: can check out the heart Radio app Apple Podcasts where

998
00:56:44,520 --> 00:56:45,520
Speaker 1: you listening to you Stafish