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Speaker 1: Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve Camray.

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Speaker 1: It's ready. Are you welcome to stuff Mom never told you?

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Speaker 1: From house Stop Works dot Com. Hello, and welcome to

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Speaker 1: the podcast. I'm Kristen and I'm Caroline. Caroline. I would

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Speaker 1: like to wish you a happy National Single and Unmarried

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Speaker 1: Americans Week. Just a week? Huh, just just a week?

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Speaker 1: Thank you before we came to you record today. And

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Speaker 1: I should go ahead and say that, Um, the date

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Speaker 1: is September, so by the time this publishes, it will

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Speaker 1: no longer be National Single and Unmarried Americans Week. I'm

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Speaker 1: just gonna make a month of it, real party. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: bad decisions. We could make it a month and change

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Speaker 1: so it can it can end in Halloween. That would

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Speaker 1: make sense. Yeah. Um, but according to the New York Times, Uh,

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Speaker 1: it is indeed National Single and Unmarried Americans Week. Um.

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Speaker 1: Snazzier title I vote for, but the acronym gets crazy. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I felt that it was appropriate that we are

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Speaker 1: recording this episode on pickup artists Daring National Single and

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Speaker 1: Unmarried Americans Week. Yeah, because it's all about these single

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Speaker 1: heterosexual guys looking for some ladies to serge. Yeah. Wait,

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Speaker 1: wait what, Well, yeah, serge. Um, I'm gonna try to

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Speaker 1: toss out as much pick up lingo, pickup artists lingo

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Speaker 1: as I can during this episode. And sarge is a

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Speaker 1: word that comes up a lot when pickup artists are

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Speaker 1: talking to each other, and it means to strike up

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Speaker 1: a conversation with a woman that you don't know. So

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Speaker 1: and that's really the whole point. Uh well, not the

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Speaker 1: whole point, not the endgame, but the initial hurdle these

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Speaker 1: guys have to get her is the sarge actually conversing,

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Speaker 1: exchanging words, dialogue with a female they've never met. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: A lot of these guys who participate in the seduction communities,

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Speaker 1: so to speak, these pickup artists, a lot of them

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Speaker 1: are insecure guys who want to develop confidence. Um. It's

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Speaker 1: not that they seek to objectify women, but that does

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Speaker 1: end up being a big part of it a lot

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Speaker 1: of the time, because if you are trying to get

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Speaker 1: over your insecurities of talking to someone of the opposite sex,

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Speaker 1: you might use some defense mechanisms to make that make

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Speaker 1: it seem easier. Yeah, if you, and especially if you've

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Speaker 1: had bad luck in dating. You know, if you've been

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Speaker 1: rejected a number of times. Uh, it can um, you know,

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Speaker 1: it can be scary to go out there and and

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Speaker 1: swing the old bat one more time, worried that you

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Speaker 1: might strike out. Um. But just to back up for

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Speaker 1: a second. Pickup artists, um, for anyone out there who

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Speaker 1: who has not heard of of pickup autistry. Pickup artists

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Speaker 1: really came into the pop culture stratosphere in two thousand

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Speaker 1: five when a guy named Neil Strauss published a book

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Speaker 1: called The Game, and The Game was all about his

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Speaker 1: journey into this secret world of the seduction community. And

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Speaker 1: then from that there was this spinoff reality show about

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Speaker 1: this guy named Mystery. Who's this famed pickup artist who

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Speaker 1: had the interesting sartorial choices where those of top hats

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Speaker 1: and feather boas and nail polished, nail polish and um oh,

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Speaker 1: the platform boots and that's all part of peacocking, the

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Speaker 1: strategy they use. Yes, um, And this v H one

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Speaker 1: reality show focused on Mystery teaching these hapless young men

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Speaker 1: how to starg and peacock their way to uh to

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Speaker 1: to dating success. Well it's actually not even dating success,

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Speaker 1: pickup success. And they successfully talk to a woman, impress her,

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Speaker 1: get her number, maybe take her home, but really the

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Speaker 1: goal it's sort of strange because the goal is not

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Speaker 1: necessarily to take a woman home. I mean it is

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Speaker 1: in a way, but a lot of the goal is

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Speaker 1: just get over your insecurities and talk to somebody. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's all about approaching as many women as possible. The

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Speaker 1: the Mystery Method because there are a lot of different

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Speaker 1: methods to pick up artistry, and the Mystery Method really

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Speaker 1: focuses on approaching women. He has this Mystery outlines this

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Speaker 1: plan for guys who are trying to hone their pickup skills,

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Speaker 1: and he says that you should go out like four

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Speaker 1: times a week and make a certain number of approaches

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Speaker 1: for a certain number of hours, all of which adds

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Speaker 1: up to a sum total of two hundred approaches per year.

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Speaker 1: We're supposed to talk to twenty four hundred different women

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Speaker 1: in a year, right? Could we do that in Atlanta?

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Speaker 1: I don't even know how. I have no I and

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Speaker 1: a pick up kind of like the energy for that,

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Speaker 1: I'm not I mean, I'm I'm an awkward, cheesy person,

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Speaker 1: but I don't know if I'm not cheesy, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if I want to go up to the people

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Speaker 1: in a year. Can you things to do and hitting

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Speaker 1: on that have a job. I don't know how they

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Speaker 1: have at the time, but yeah, Mystery a k a.

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Speaker 1: Eric von Markovic a a k a. Eric James Horvat

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Speaker 1: markovic Um honed his skills by going out every night

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Speaker 1: he was down on his luck. I think he had

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Speaker 1: to move back in with his parents at some point.

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Speaker 1: He wasn't aspiring a magician in Toronto. Let us also

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Speaker 1: add I have a skeptical eyebrow. Um, but yeah, he

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Speaker 1: went out every night and developing his m O, trying

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Speaker 1: to see what worked, what attracted women, what got their attention,

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Speaker 1: and after all of his hits and misses, he settles

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Speaker 1: on the alienation method. He basically would first ignore the

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Speaker 1: women he might approach a group, and he would ignore

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Speaker 1: the woman that he actually wanted to hook up with,

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Speaker 1: and he would joke around and and try to impress

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Speaker 1: the other people in the group so that the woman

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Speaker 1: that he had his eye on would be like, oh no, wait,

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Speaker 1: but talk to me right. And it all focuses around

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Speaker 1: this idea of negging someone. And this is all again

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Speaker 1: part of the mystery method, because there there are other

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Speaker 1: other methods to pick up artistry that that I'll mention

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Speaker 1: a little bit. But a neg is when you when

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Speaker 1: you first talked to a woman, like if you're in

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Speaker 1: the group and there's you know, let's say you're sitting

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Speaker 1: there in the middle, Caroline, and I want to pick

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Speaker 1: you up, right, I'd like to get a number clothes,

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Speaker 1: which means, as you would imagine getting your number right

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Speaker 1: at the end of the night. I would not walk

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Speaker 1: up to your break into your group and saying, well, lady,

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Speaker 1: you are a lovely in the face. Oh my god.

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Speaker 1: I would not say that. I would wait, would be successful.

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Speaker 1: I would wait for you to maybe say something in

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Speaker 1: one of your your voices that that you do you know,

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Speaker 1: and I'd be like, what's up with that voice? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I would neg you. I would criticize you. So you

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Speaker 1: would be like, but I'm beautiful. I know, but let

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Speaker 1: me show you. Wait, this isn't just me, No, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm very turned on by your high boots, right. Oh god. Well.

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Speaker 1: The example that they use a lot is hair and nails, like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you have really nice hair, is that real? No, well,

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Speaker 1: you're pretty anyway. Yeah, And he suggests doing this to

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Speaker 1: women who are attractive and who are probably used to

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Speaker 1: getting nothing but praise rehatoration because you'll stand out more. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and once you tossed out the neck and you get

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Speaker 1: the woman's attention and you isolate her from the group,

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Speaker 1: and then beyond that you start to d v or

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Speaker 1: masture your value, usually in the form of magic tricks,

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Speaker 1: handwriting analysis, esp. Things like that, Yeah, I, um, I

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Speaker 1: thought I would walk away, Well I would, I wouldn't, Okay,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, Caroline. They refer to that in pickup

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Speaker 1: lingo as chick crack because you know, we take to

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Speaker 1: it like chocolate on our periods. Stereotype. Stereotype and at

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Speaker 1: that point you would probably toss out to me the

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Speaker 1: the suave pickup artist in this hypothetical situation, an io

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Speaker 1: I or an indicator of interest, your flipping my hand

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Speaker 1: or maybe sensually rubbing your neck. Well, you know, my

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Speaker 1: neck heard a lot so to anyone out there. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: me rubbing my neck has nothing to do with whether

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Speaker 1: I'm interested in you putting that out there. Um, that

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Speaker 1: is good to know. But yeah, anyway, um, talking about

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Speaker 1: mysteries method you know, you you mentioned stereotypes and this

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Speaker 1: sort of kind of connects to the misogynistic undertones of

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Speaker 1: some of this stuff because basically his method appeals to

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Speaker 1: maybe women with low self esteem, yes, and you're basically

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Speaker 1: exploiting their low self esteem. And it's interesting because there's

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Speaker 1: um in the in the research would be read about this,

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Speaker 1: because there isn't that much academic research on pickup artists,

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Speaker 1: probably because they have been caricatured so much in pop culture.

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Speaker 1: But if you go, if you go online, I mean,

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Speaker 1: these these communities maybe not so much anymore, but the

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Speaker 1: deduction community as it's called, really was thriving for a while.

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Speaker 1: All of these guys who obviously had self esteem issues

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Speaker 1: going out and trying to talk to women, having to

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Speaker 1: use this these misogynistic tools to, like you said, Caroline,

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Speaker 1: exploit other women's low self esteem thereby texting themselves from

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Speaker 1: you know, the pain of rejection, right, it's uh yeah, well, well,

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Speaker 1: I pick up artists might have the same in goal

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Speaker 1: as any other cheesy dude hitting on you in a bar.

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Speaker 1: Um it almost seems. And we talked about this how

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Speaker 1: the girl is almost secondary to the goal of feeling

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Speaker 1: better about themselves and the woman is actually both the

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Speaker 1: end and the means to the end. Because pick up

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Speaker 1: artists are instructed to go forth and conquer. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot of like battle image, sports metaphors and things, and

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Speaker 1: they have to talk to as many women as possible

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Speaker 1: and over to get over their fear of rejection and

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Speaker 1: in the process just sort of reduce women to objects.

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Speaker 1: But even though we only trace back, you know, the

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Speaker 1: seduction community and the pop culture landscape back you know,

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Speaker 1: a few years with mystery and Neil Strauss in the

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Speaker 1: game and reality television and all of that, it actually

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Speaker 1: he goes back to the nineteen seventies when first we

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Speaker 1: have Eric Webber, who published the book a bestseller, I

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Speaker 1: might add how to pick Up Girls, and that's with

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Speaker 1: an exclamation point, how to pick Up Girls. And then

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Speaker 1: things really start to pick up with a guy named

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Speaker 1: Ross Jeffries who was down and out comedian who are

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Speaker 1: comedy writer who wrote how to Get the Woman You

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Speaker 1: Desire Into Bed, And it's all about his his idea

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Speaker 1: of just the unfair practices of dating, wherein he says

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Speaker 1: that it's, you know, it's a choice for women to

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Speaker 1: sleep with someone, whereas for men it's a chore, like

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Speaker 1: they have to go out and they have to pursue

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Speaker 1: and follow all of these dating roles, gendered roles, and

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Speaker 1: that's just a bunch of malarkey. Yeah. He I read

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Speaker 1: a chunk of of his writing and he basically just

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Speaker 1: goes on and on about how it's unfair and women

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Speaker 1: blah blah, just so much hanger. It's a lot, it's

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Speaker 1: a lot of anger. And um yeah, I I wrote

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Speaker 1: the article for how stuff works dot com about pick

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Speaker 1: up artists, which is why we decided to do a

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Speaker 1: podcast on it. And I tell you what, immersing yourself

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Speaker 1: in books like how to pick Up Girls exclamation Point

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Speaker 1: and how to Get the Woman you desire into bed

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Speaker 1: in the game it made me not want to go

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Speaker 1: out and have content any men. I was like, can

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Speaker 1: I I need to go to like an an animal

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Speaker 1: shelter where men are volunteering, like seeing something something nice. Well,

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Speaker 1: at least now you're educated enough in this area, in

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Speaker 1: this realm to know when you go out in someone's

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Speaker 1: being a creeper. Okay, are you a fan of Ross Jeffreys?

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Speaker 1: And if he gives you a dumbfounded look, you can

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Speaker 1: just use that opportunity to just walk away. I could

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Speaker 1: just deflect the negs, right, And he's like, oh, you're

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Speaker 1: a podcaster that's almost like radio. Yes, exactly, and then

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Speaker 1: you can keep a mention I'm anticipate and dissipate the insults.

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Speaker 1: We will be tossing my way. UM. So yeah, we

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Speaker 1: have Ross Jeffries and then everything really takes off thanks

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Speaker 1: to the Internet, when finally these guys who are reading

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Speaker 1: books at home start all these message boards UM based

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Speaker 1: around Ross Jeffries tactics, which is referred to UM kind

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Speaker 1: of like the Mystery method. Ross Jeffries tactics are referred

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Speaker 1: to as speed seduction, and he emphasizes this thing called

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Speaker 1: neural linguistic programs. This is ridiculous and a lot of

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Speaker 1: actual real scientists have said it's ridiculous and that these

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Speaker 1: people don't know what they're talking about. It's a pseudoscience.

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Speaker 1: Not to be you know, too insensitive about it, but basically, uh,

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Speaker 1: it's an approach to psychotherapy that uses language patterns and

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Speaker 1: metaphor to communicate with the unconscious mind. So, Kristen, if

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Speaker 1: I were trying to pick you up at a bar, um,

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Speaker 1: I wouldn't just slatter you or just use negs. No,

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Speaker 1: that's too simple. I would pepper our conversation with sig

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Speaker 1: JUSTI words such as hard penetrate, would et cetera, but

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Speaker 1: not necessarily use them in a suggestive way. Just put

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Speaker 1: these words in your mind so that eventually you start

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Speaker 1: thinking about sex. So so you would be you know,

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Speaker 1: like you're really hard to talk to in front of

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Speaker 1: this at this wooden bar stool I'm sitting on like that. Sure,

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Speaker 1: I think you've almost got it. What this reminds me

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Speaker 1: of not to go off on a total tangent, but

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Speaker 1: this whole neuro linguistic programming angle reminds me of this

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Speaker 1: episode of Say by the Bell about subliminal messaging, when

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Speaker 1: Zack Morris master's subliminal messaging to get all these these

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Speaker 1: girls to like him. But then then he comes around

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Speaker 1: and realizes that you shouldn't manipulate people. Yes, exactly, Ross

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Speaker 1: Jeffreys did not come to did not come to that conclusion.

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Speaker 1: Now he also has great the great advice of listening

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Speaker 1: to women. Yeah, actually pay attention to what they say.

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Speaker 1: Although I will give him this UM. Body language comes

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Speaker 1: up in a lot of pick up artist tactics, especially

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Speaker 1: things like mirroring UM, where you you mirror the other

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Speaker 1: person's body language, you give a sense of being in

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Speaker 1: sync with them. And I do notice in conversations. You know,

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Speaker 1: when you are really invested in a conversation with someone,

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Speaker 1: say you're on a date, or just say we're sitting

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Speaker 1: here talking to podcast, but when somewhat you know, when

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Speaker 1: you're both leaning in, or if one person's leaning in

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Speaker 1: and the other person's leaning out. I mean, that kind

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Speaker 1: of body language I think is relevant. But if you

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Speaker 1: are doing it intentionally mirroring, um, because you're hoping to

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Speaker 1: uh to close in and pick up artists parlance, just

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Speaker 1: be careful you're not so obviously mirroring that you seem

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Speaker 1: like you're making fun of the person, like scratching your

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Speaker 1: face and they scratch their exactly. Things like that you

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Speaker 1: mentioned Kristen. Um. The popularity that the stuff is gained online. Um,

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Speaker 1: It's given so many people access to can you nity basically,

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Speaker 1: and that in and of itself can grant a lot

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Speaker 1: of confidence, um in in yourself as a as a

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Speaker 1: guy who maybe doesn't have a lot of luck and

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Speaker 1: love right. And I mean, and I also think about

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Speaker 1: it compared to you know how women have a little

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Speaker 1: more social license to sit around and talk about relationships

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Speaker 1: and dating and tactics and all of that. Yeah, whereas

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Speaker 1: with men, the you know, they might not at least

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Speaker 1: an experience that I've had with with guy friends. It

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Speaker 1: is rarer for a group of guys to sit around

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Speaker 1: and say, but how do we how do we talk

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Speaker 1: to her? You know? But the Internet offered this like

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Speaker 1: nice cloak of anonymity. But there's also offline community organization

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Speaker 1: that goes along with it as well. Yeah. Elina Clift,

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Speaker 1: in her thesis picking up an acting out politics of

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Speaker 1: masculinity in the seduction community, compares the seduction community to

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Speaker 1: nineteenth century fraternal organizations because all of a sudden, with industrialization,

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Speaker 1: you had a lot of men leaving their families and

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Speaker 1: striking out on their own, going and living in apartments

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Speaker 1: far away from all that they've known before, and that

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Speaker 1: can even if they're seeking independence, they still missed that

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Speaker 1: family connection, and so a lot of them would end

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Speaker 1: up living together, creating these organizations around common interests, et cetera,

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Speaker 1: and so um. Yeah. Cliff compares the seduction community to

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Speaker 1: this because strong male friendships can develop out of shared experiences,

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Speaker 1: and Neil Strauss points out that the point was women

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Speaker 1: and the result was men and his experiences and experiences

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Speaker 1: that he witnessed in the seduction community that all these people,

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Speaker 1: you know, they were trying to go out and get women,

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Speaker 1: but they actually just hung out with each other a lot. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: there is one. Um. Elena Clift wrote this theas is

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Speaker 1: partially because her brother becomes involved with this pickup artist community,

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Speaker 1: and at first she is kind of turned off by

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Speaker 1: it and sort of concern because her brother or had

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Speaker 1: always been sort of an introvert, and why would he be,

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Speaker 1: you know, getting together, um with this supposedly misogynistic group

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Speaker 1: of of guys. But um, in her experience, she was UM.

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Speaker 1: She kind of comes around to understanding that for her

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Speaker 1: brother at least, and for some of the guys that

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Speaker 1: she interacted with, it was more about that community, like

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Speaker 1: you said, Caroline, than it really was about going out

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Speaker 1: and sleeping with as many women as possible. And she

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Speaker 1: talks about going to a party at the I think

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Speaker 1: they're called seduction layers, which are sort of like the

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Speaker 1: their equivalence of the frat house. She goes to a

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Speaker 1: party of the seduction layer and she's one of like

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Speaker 1: three women. So they're all playing video games right now,

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Speaker 1: And going back to that comparison, of the seduction community

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Speaker 1: and the nineteenth century fraternal organizations and and moving out

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Speaker 1: of the home. With the rise of industrialization. Along with that,

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Speaker 1: you had a complete dismantling of the mating system of

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Speaker 1: the time time where people used to come hang out

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Speaker 1: on the front porch, you would come courting at a

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Speaker 1: girl's house. Yeah, and there was a script for them

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Speaker 1: to follow. But then once, um, once industrialization takes off

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Speaker 1: and they have the choice and the agency to you know,

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Speaker 1: take a woman out if they want to, it sort

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Speaker 1: of changes. So it makes sense that you know that

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Speaker 1: they were looking for some kind of community to help

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Speaker 1: figure out what's going on. And you could argue that

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Speaker 1: a similar thing was going on in the mid two

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Speaker 1: thousand's when the seduction community really takes off, where all

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Speaker 1: of these dating norms are topsy turvy, with women being

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Speaker 1: you know, more educated than men on average, making at

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Speaker 1: least in our age bracket, making comparable money. Um. So

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Speaker 1: I think that Cliff really brings up a good point

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Speaker 1: with that. So, well, it's good that these guys are

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Speaker 1: developing these close friendships and relationships and maybe helping each

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Speaker 1: other get out there on their own. Um, they're they

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Speaker 1: actual we kind of have difficulty maintaining a relationship because

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Speaker 1: they put so much emphasis on just hitting on women

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Speaker 1: and picking up women, and Strauss says that UM, basically,

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Speaker 1: in his experience, all the techniques that help a relationship

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Speaker 1: blossom end up violating every principle necessary to maintain one

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Speaker 1: browying out all the time, treating women as objects, not

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Speaker 1: valuing them for who they are, just treating them all

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Speaker 1: is one two dimensional character that has certain insecurities that

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Speaker 1: can be exploited. Right, Because success is not getting to

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Speaker 1: know someone. Although with UM the authentic man approach, which

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Speaker 1: is one of the fringe forms of pickup artistry that

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Speaker 1: focuses a lot more on just kind of basic conversation

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Speaker 1: and social skill building, UM, but the object isn't typically

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Speaker 1: to get to know someone, it's to get a number.

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Speaker 1: Get They will come back with field reports saying like

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Speaker 1: this many numbers, I had this many approaches, I got

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Speaker 1: this many io eyes from h b s, which are

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Speaker 1: hot babes, which is why they're pseudonyms are so beneficial, Right,

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Speaker 1: Like that would be unfortunate, they were well unfortunate for

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Speaker 1: them if they were using their real names and giving

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Speaker 1: these field reports of all their colm quests and their

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Speaker 1: their lady friends found them. And the kind of ironic

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Speaker 1: thing about Neil Strauss who wrote the game, um, because

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Speaker 1: you're just saying, Caroline that like all uh actual monogamous

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Speaker 1: dating and relationships violates, um the major tenants of pickup

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Speaker 1: artistry and uh spoiler alert, at the end of the game,

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Speaker 1: he basically quits playing because he finds a woman who

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Speaker 1: a he basically negs him in terms of not eating

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Speaker 1: up all of this pickup artist garbage that he's sending

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Speaker 1: her way. She's smarter than that, and therefore his interest

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Speaker 1: is piqued because then not taking all of his and

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Speaker 1: then he starts flipping his hair and rubbing his neck exactly,

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Speaker 1: and then she finally comes around says all right, and

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Speaker 1: so he is up um in a relationship. So kind

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Speaker 1: of the point of the game is to is to

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Speaker 1: lose it really at some point. Um. But again it's like,

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's through the vehicle of such blatant misogyny

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Speaker 1: and sexism, which is one main reason why pick up

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Speaker 1: artists have been uh, you know, buffooned in pop culture

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Speaker 1: but also vilified as well. And then you have the

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Speaker 1: cases of people like gun which that's his pick up

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Speaker 1: artists handle this guy gun which his method is to quote,

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Speaker 1: escalate physical contact until the woman stops him, basically make

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Speaker 1: her say no. Basically, we're talking about sexual assault. And

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Speaker 1: it was reported earlier this year that gun which this

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Speaker 1: guy was UM was arrested for shooting a woman in

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Speaker 1: a in the face at a party. And who knows,

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Speaker 1: I don't know if he was necessarily hitting on her

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Speaker 1: and she wasn't accepting the gun which method, But that's

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Speaker 1: when you get to the to the extremes of this

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Speaker 1: kind of behavior that Strauss actually told Clarissa Thorne, who's

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Speaker 1: a writer and interviewer UM. He told her that he

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Speaker 1: was surprised at something like this hadn't happened before, with

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Speaker 1: men putting so much stock in you know, I'm going

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Speaker 1: to get better with women, and I'm going to go

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Speaker 1: out there and I'm gonna get me one, and you know,

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Speaker 1: there's obviously going to be inevitable rejection. He was just

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Speaker 1: surprised that with the underlying misogynistic tendencies and the anger, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean just the anger, that that it hadn't happened already,

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Speaker 1: that they even had to go to any trouble to

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Speaker 1: pick up these you know, basically sex objects. At this point,

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Speaker 1: um and and Strauss, you know, he does to his

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Speaker 1: to his minor credit, because I am you know, I

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00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:52,359
Speaker 1: have a hard time giving any credit at all to

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Speaker 1: pick up artists, but to Neil Strauss's minor, miner credit.

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Speaker 1: He does emphasize in a number of interviews that the

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Speaker 1: point of the game is to not only hone your

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Speaker 1: outer gain game, which would be your flotation skills, but

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Speaker 1: also your inner game, which is the self esteem foundation.

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Speaker 1: And and he refers to it as this major men's

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Speaker 1: self help movement that was ruined by pop culture, right,

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Speaker 1: I mean, of which he was a part. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: started the whole thing. He started with an article in

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Speaker 1: the New York Times in two thousand four and then

402
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Speaker 1: had a best selling book. So it's like gam on Niels,

403
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Speaker 1: rous you really do you really care that much? So,

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00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I do, you know, I do think it's

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Speaker 1: possible that this system could benefit people if they go

406
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Speaker 1: about it the right way. If you go into it

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Speaker 1: thinking I'm going to better myself, I'm going to gain confidence,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to learn how to talk to women. That's great.

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Speaker 1: But if you use I know, and I know hate

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Speaker 1: I'm saying this, then I'm playing Devil's advocate. But just

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Speaker 1: I I feel in reading all of the materials that

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Speaker 1: we read, I feel that the majority of people in

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Speaker 1: the seduction community end up reacting to women with anger

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Speaker 1: because women are the thing they want, women are the

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Speaker 1: thing they can't have. But it's also a thing of

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00:25:15,240 --> 00:25:18,560
Speaker 1: like it's it's to me. The question to ask a

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00:25:18,920 --> 00:25:21,399
Speaker 1: that we haven't talked about is does this ever work?

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Speaker 1: You know an anecdotally, um, yes, you know, well Caroline,

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Speaker 1: that's an excellent question, thank you. Because there was a

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Speaker 1: study recently published in August from the University of Kansas. Uh.

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Speaker 1: These psychologists were looking into what type of women actually

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Speaker 1: fall for these these incredibly sexist pickup tactics flow and

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Speaker 1: behold thee The psychological profile of women who sleep with

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00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:53,120
Speaker 1: pickup artists are women who are a sexist toward other women. Uh.

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Speaker 1: This is a quote. Women with a preference for no strings,

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00:25:56,560 --> 00:26:01,399
Speaker 1: no strings attached sex and negative attitude toward other women

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Speaker 1: are more likely to take the bait of these very aggressive,

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00:26:06,480 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: you know, objectifying pick up artist angles. Yeah. I feel

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00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,200
Speaker 1: like I knew bars full of both of these types

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00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: of people in college. Well, and again. Yeah, and like

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00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:19,240
Speaker 1: you pointed out the fact about the low self esteem,

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00:26:19,800 --> 00:26:22,479
Speaker 1: you know that that can be the men will just

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00:26:22,560 --> 00:26:25,920
Speaker 1: prey on um. And that's why I think it's so

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00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: revolting to see in action, because you see what's going on,

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00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:33,600
Speaker 1: and you want to take that that woman and shaker

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00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:36,560
Speaker 1: and tell her that she's worth more than that. She's

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00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: a guy with a first hat and nail polish. Yeah,

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00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 1: the feather boa um. But you know, I'd like to

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00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:45,680
Speaker 1: hear from some men on what they have to say. Yeah.

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00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:47,280
Speaker 1: I really want to know if any of you out

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00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: there have given this given this a shot, whether seriously,

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00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,440
Speaker 1: you know, in earnest pursuit, or whether you've just read

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00:26:53,480 --> 00:26:56,560
Speaker 1: some of this material and thought, hey, i'll take some pointers. Yeah.

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00:26:56,960 --> 00:26:59,800
Speaker 1: Have you have you ever negged a woman? Yeah? Have

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00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,520
Speaker 1: you picked up on any io? I So let us

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00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,360
Speaker 1: know our email addresses mom stuff at how stuff works

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Speaker 1: dot com, and we have an email to share about

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Speaker 1: our podcasts On Voices, Daphne writes that she was listening

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Speaker 1: to our podcast about what your Voice says about you,

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Speaker 1: and she says, I giggled when I heard what you

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00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:26,320
Speaker 1: said about teenage boys changing their voice when a pretty

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00:27:26,359 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 1: girl is around. A friend recently told me that when

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Speaker 1: I'm on the phone with a guy that I am

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00:27:30,280 --> 00:27:33,040
Speaker 1: dating or interested in, my voice changes. This is what

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00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:35,720
Speaker 1: she told me. Your voice gets a little higher. That's

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00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:37,760
Speaker 1: how I know you're talking to whomever it is that

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00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: you're dating on the phone. I told her I didn't

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00:27:40,400 --> 00:27:41,919
Speaker 1: believe her, but I doubt she would lie to me

459
00:27:41,920 --> 00:27:44,120
Speaker 1: about it. It must be a subconscious thing to try

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Speaker 1: and sound more feminine. Maybe. Thanks for the podcast, Thanks

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Speaker 1: for the letter, yes indeed, and all of all of

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Speaker 1: your letters again. The email addresses mom Stuff at how

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Speaker 1: stuff Works dot com, and if you can forget the

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Speaker 1: email address, you can find it on our Facebook page.

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Speaker 1: You can also follow us on Twitter at Mom's Stuff podcast,

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Speaker 1: and you can check out our blog during the week,

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Speaker 1: It's stuff Mom Never told You at how Stuff Works

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Speaker 1: dot com. Be sure to check out our new video podcast,

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Speaker 1: Download it today on iTunes. Brought to you by the

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