1 00:00:15,410 --> 00:00:24,730 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Tony didn't think he needed rehab. Some of his 2 00:00:24,890 --> 00:00:29,130 Speaker 1: friends insisted that he did, and he had agreed reluctantly 3 00:00:29,410 --> 00:00:34,370 Speaker 1: to check himself into a luxury clinic in Park City, Utah. 4 00:00:34,410 --> 00:00:38,130 Speaker 1: But what exactly had he been doing that concerned those friends. 5 00:00:39,170 --> 00:00:42,610 Speaker 1: He called Tyler from the rehab place and asked him 6 00:00:42,610 --> 00:00:47,530 Speaker 1: to make a list. Tyler had two roles in Tony's life. 7 00:00:47,610 --> 00:00:51,090 Speaker 1: He was an employee at Tony's company, and he was 8 00:00:51,130 --> 00:00:55,090 Speaker 1: Tony's friend. After less than two weeks at the clinic, 9 00:00:55,570 --> 00:01:00,690 Speaker 1: Tony decided he'd had enough and checked himself out. He 10 00:01:00,770 --> 00:01:05,090 Speaker 1: met Tyler in a nearby coffee shop. Now, what's on 11 00:01:05,130 --> 00:01:09,050 Speaker 1: this list? You said you could find a cure for COVID, 12 00:01:09,770 --> 00:01:13,930 Speaker 1: said Tyler. That was ambitious, for sure. It was early 13 00:01:13,970 --> 00:01:18,410 Speaker 1: in twenty twenty. COVID was just beginning to upend the world. 14 00:01:19,250 --> 00:01:22,690 Speaker 1: But it's no bad thing to be ambitious, especially if 15 00:01:22,730 --> 00:01:25,730 Speaker 1: you have a track record of success, as Tony did. 16 00:01:26,770 --> 00:01:31,530 Speaker 1: Tony was a tech entrepreneur CEO of the online shoe 17 00:01:31,530 --> 00:01:36,890 Speaker 1: retailer Zappos dot com. He was worth about a billion dollars. 18 00:01:37,690 --> 00:01:42,450 Speaker 1: Why shouldn't he have big ambitions? You said you could 19 00:01:42,530 --> 00:01:47,970 Speaker 1: solve world peace, said Tyler. Like I said, big ambitions. 20 00:01:48,690 --> 00:01:53,410 Speaker 1: He barely slept. Not too unusual, right, Lots of successful 21 00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:57,730 Speaker 1: people get by on little sleep. Tyler went on. You 22 00:01:57,850 --> 00:02:02,530 Speaker 1: said you were becoming neo in the matrix. You said 23 00:02:02,570 --> 00:02:07,810 Speaker 1: you could see the matrix, that you could transcend human consciousness. 24 00:02:08,890 --> 00:02:12,930 Speaker 1: Said you could morph your body into a gazelle. Tyler 25 00:02:13,170 --> 00:02:17,370 Speaker 1: didn't dare to look his boss, his friend in the eye. 26 00:02:18,050 --> 00:02:20,970 Speaker 1: He kept his head down, plowing on through the list. 27 00:02:21,970 --> 00:02:25,490 Speaker 1: You said you could manifest water. You said you could 28 00:02:25,530 --> 00:02:33,810 Speaker 1: become one with the kitchen countertop. When a reluctant Tony 29 00:02:33,930 --> 00:02:37,490 Speaker 1: had first appeared at the rehab facility, they too had 30 00:02:37,490 --> 00:02:42,170 Speaker 1: been unsure that he needed to be there. Residents initially 31 00:02:42,210 --> 00:02:45,650 Speaker 1: presented in a thoughtful and well stated manner, it says 32 00:02:45,690 --> 00:02:51,050 Speaker 1: on Tony's admission notes, but his premise began to deteriorate 33 00:02:51,130 --> 00:02:55,730 Speaker 1: as he discussed his research into ketamin and how it 34 00:02:55,730 --> 00:03:01,250 Speaker 1: has expanded his cognitive, physical and spiritual capabilities, including his 35 00:03:01,330 --> 00:03:07,810 Speaker 1: ability to grow an additional two inches. You said you 36 00:03:07,810 --> 00:03:11,050 Speaker 1: could eventually grow to be set seven feet tall, said Tyler. 37 00:03:12,250 --> 00:03:18,210 Speaker 1: The rehab center diagnosed Tony with grandiose delusions, even for 38 00:03:18,330 --> 00:03:23,010 Speaker 1: a billionaire there's a point where big ambitions crossed the 39 00:03:23,090 --> 00:03:28,930 Speaker 1: line into grandiose delusions. The doctor has thought Tony had 40 00:03:29,010 --> 00:03:33,130 Speaker 1: crossed that line. You said, you don't need to urinate, 41 00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:38,970 Speaker 1: said Tyler, because your body can recycle your urine. Tyler 42 00:03:39,050 --> 00:03:41,370 Speaker 1: got to the end of the list and looked up. 43 00:03:42,610 --> 00:03:47,090 Speaker 1: Tony was looking calmly at him. All of this is key, 44 00:03:47,450 --> 00:03:55,090 Speaker 1: said Tony, to exiting into the next dimension. Tyler's heart sank. 45 00:03:56,090 --> 00:03:59,330 Speaker 1: It had been so hard to persuade Tony that he 46 00:03:59,370 --> 00:04:03,890 Speaker 1: needed rehab, and now it seemed that the rehab hadn't 47 00:04:03,890 --> 00:04:10,330 Speaker 1: worked at all. I'm Tim Harford and you're listening cautionary tales. 48 00:04:33,450 --> 00:04:38,490 Speaker 1: In twenty ten, ten years before his reluctant fortnight in rehab, 49 00:04:39,130 --> 00:04:43,250 Speaker 1: Tony Shay had a different big ambition. He wanted to 50 00:04:43,290 --> 00:04:49,410 Speaker 1: make everyone happy. He had just published a book, Delivering Happiness. 51 00:04:50,450 --> 00:04:54,210 Speaker 1: In his book, Tony asks his readers to ask themselves 52 00:04:54,210 --> 00:04:58,970 Speaker 1: a question, what's your goal in life. Maybe you'll say 53 00:04:59,250 --> 00:05:03,610 Speaker 1: it's to retire early, But says Tony, ask yourself a 54 00:05:03,730 --> 00:05:07,970 Speaker 1: follow up question. Why. Maybe it's because you want to 55 00:05:08,010 --> 00:05:15,090 Speaker 1: travel again. Why Why? Why? Ask yourself why enough times, 56 00:05:15,330 --> 00:05:19,650 Speaker 1: Tony argues, and you'll realize that your ultimate goal in 57 00:05:19,690 --> 00:05:25,410 Speaker 1: life is to make yourself happy. But there's a science 58 00:05:25,450 --> 00:05:30,130 Speaker 1: of happiness, and its central finding is this, we often 59 00:05:30,490 --> 00:05:34,770 Speaker 1: mispredict what will make us happy. Study the science, and 60 00:05:34,810 --> 00:05:39,410 Speaker 1: we can get better at being happy. When he first 61 00:05:39,450 --> 00:05:43,330 Speaker 1: got interested in the science of happiness, Tony wrote it 62 00:05:43,490 --> 00:05:48,690 Speaker 1: was a personal project. Then he had an epiphany he 63 00:05:48,690 --> 00:05:52,250 Speaker 1: could apply it to his business. The shoe retailer Zappo's 64 00:05:53,090 --> 00:05:56,690 Speaker 1: customers told him they think of a Zappo's delivery as 65 00:05:57,090 --> 00:06:01,610 Speaker 1: happiness in a box. Tony wanted his employees to be happy. 66 00:06:02,570 --> 00:06:06,850 Speaker 1: The thing that ties all of these things together, Tony realized, 67 00:06:07,610 --> 00:06:12,650 Speaker 1: is happiness. With his book, Tony wanted to change the world, 68 00:06:13,210 --> 00:06:18,090 Speaker 1: inspiring others to join a global happiness movement by sharing 69 00:06:18,130 --> 00:06:21,930 Speaker 1: the lessons he had learned. But the lessons Tony can 70 00:06:21,970 --> 00:06:26,250 Speaker 1: teach us about happiness come more from his life than 71 00:06:26,290 --> 00:06:33,890 Speaker 1: his book. As a child, Tony Shay always wanted to 72 00:06:33,970 --> 00:06:38,330 Speaker 1: make money. To me, he recalls in his book, money 73 00:06:38,370 --> 00:06:43,290 Speaker 1: meant the freedom to do whatever I wanted. After college, 74 00:06:43,330 --> 00:06:47,490 Speaker 1: Tony started an internet company in San Francisco. This was 75 00:06:47,530 --> 00:06:50,610 Speaker 1: the mid nineteen nineties, when the World Wide Web was 76 00:06:50,690 --> 00:06:54,730 Speaker 1: still a Niche pursuit but dot com frenzy was beginning 77 00:06:54,730 --> 00:07:00,130 Speaker 1: to build. Tony sold his business and netted thirty million 78 00:07:00,210 --> 00:07:04,570 Speaker 1: dollars at the age of just twenty five. He already 79 00:07:04,730 --> 00:07:09,770 Speaker 1: had the freedom to do whatever he wanted. What did 80 00:07:09,810 --> 00:07:16,970 Speaker 1: he want? He remembers drinking vodka and thinking, what is happiness? 81 00:07:17,730 --> 00:07:22,970 Speaker 1: He went to raves, took ecstasy, played poker, and invested 82 00:07:23,010 --> 00:07:27,770 Speaker 1: in other Internet startups, including Zappos dot Com. He had 83 00:07:27,810 --> 00:07:32,730 Speaker 1: been skeptical at first. Would people really buy shoes over 84 00:07:32,770 --> 00:07:39,450 Speaker 1: the internet without trying them on first? Yes, said the 85 00:07:39,490 --> 00:07:43,290 Speaker 1: company's founder. It demonstrated this by going to his local 86 00:07:43,410 --> 00:07:48,010 Speaker 1: shoe store, taking photos of their stock and putting them online. 87 00:07:48,570 --> 00:07:51,210 Speaker 1: When someone placed an order, he'd go to the store, 88 00:07:51,650 --> 00:07:57,050 Speaker 1: buy the shoes, and ship them. Clearly, this wasn't a 89 00:07:57,090 --> 00:08:01,410 Speaker 1: scalable business model, but it was proof of concept. As 90 00:08:01,450 --> 00:08:04,570 Speaker 1: the Internet became more mainstream, there'd be money to be 91 00:08:04,650 --> 00:08:09,090 Speaker 1: made by selling shoes on it. Then the dot com 92 00:08:09,130 --> 00:08:14,850 Speaker 1: bubble burst, Zappo's was still far from making money, and 93 00:08:14,930 --> 00:08:19,570 Speaker 1: nobody else wanted to invest. Tony emptied his bank accounts, 94 00:08:19,810 --> 00:08:24,410 Speaker 1: sold his property, and gambled everything on getting Zappos through 95 00:08:24,450 --> 00:08:29,570 Speaker 1: the downturn. He made himself CEO. He had realized that 96 00:08:29,810 --> 00:08:33,650 Speaker 1: he wanted to be in charge. Tony cut costs by 97 00:08:33,730 --> 00:08:37,610 Speaker 1: laying off some employees, but was pleasantly surprised to find 98 00:08:37,690 --> 00:08:41,010 Speaker 1: that this didn't reduce the amount of work being done. 99 00:08:41,850 --> 00:08:44,730 Speaker 1: It was a big lesson, Tony recalls in his book. 100 00:08:45,130 --> 00:08:48,850 Speaker 1: We realized that we'd laid off the non believers. Everyone 101 00:08:48,930 --> 00:08:54,810 Speaker 1: remaining was passionate about the company. Still, Tony's cash was 102 00:08:54,970 --> 00:08:59,850 Speaker 1: fast running out. He begged suppliers for extended payment terms 103 00:08:59,930 --> 00:09:04,090 Speaker 1: and banks for a loan. It was like being deep underwater, 104 00:09:04,490 --> 00:09:08,330 Speaker 1: he said, trying to swim up to the surface. We 105 00:09:08,330 --> 00:09:10,650 Speaker 1: were worried we were drown before we could come up 106 00:09:10,650 --> 00:09:15,650 Speaker 1: for air. But Tony was already preparing to make it 107 00:09:15,850 --> 00:09:21,410 Speaker 1: big by reading every business book he could find. Over lunch, 108 00:09:21,530 --> 00:09:24,610 Speaker 1: he asked a colleague, have you read Good to Great? 109 00:09:25,290 --> 00:09:29,610 Speaker 1: It says good companies just make money, but great companies 110 00:09:29,850 --> 00:09:34,770 Speaker 1: have a higher purpose. The colleague deadpand that just making 111 00:09:34,850 --> 00:09:39,130 Speaker 1: money sounded like a nice problem to have. Tony persisted, 112 00:09:39,930 --> 00:09:45,010 Speaker 1: we need a higher purpose. He decided that purpose should 113 00:09:45,010 --> 00:09:52,730 Speaker 1: be great customer service. Just in time, the bank agreed 114 00:09:52,730 --> 00:09:57,330 Speaker 1: to the loan. Zappo's attracted new investors With the future 115 00:09:57,370 --> 00:10:01,850 Speaker 1: looking brighter, Tony made a surprise announcement he was moving 116 00:10:01,850 --> 00:10:05,770 Speaker 1: the company from San Francisco to a suburb of Las Vegas. 117 00:10:06,410 --> 00:10:10,890 Speaker 1: All the employees had to decide moved five hundred miles 118 00:10:10,930 --> 00:10:15,850 Speaker 1: from their families and friends or lose their job. Most 119 00:10:16,050 --> 00:10:20,610 Speaker 1: decided to keep their jobs. Once again, Tony had found 120 00:10:20,650 --> 00:10:26,650 Speaker 1: a way to shed the non believers. The biggest benefit 121 00:10:26,690 --> 00:10:30,570 Speaker 1: of moving to Vegas, recalls Tony, was that nobody had 122 00:10:30,650 --> 00:10:34,450 Speaker 1: any friends outside of Zappo's. We hung out together during 123 00:10:34,570 --> 00:10:39,050 Speaker 1: almost all our waking hours. Where other companies talked about 124 00:10:39,130 --> 00:10:44,810 Speaker 1: work life balance, Tony talked about work life integration. When 125 00:10:44,890 --> 00:10:49,290 Speaker 1: Zappo's hired new people, it looked at their cultural fit. 126 00:10:50,570 --> 00:10:54,490 Speaker 1: At first, this simply meant would Tony enjoy drinking shots 127 00:10:54,490 --> 00:10:58,490 Speaker 1: with them? But as Zappos grew bigger, it needed a 128 00:10:58,530 --> 00:11:02,890 Speaker 1: better system. Tony got the answer from another business book 129 00:11:02,890 --> 00:11:08,330 Speaker 1: he had read, Tribal Leadership Define the Company Culture. In 130 00:11:08,410 --> 00:11:13,410 Speaker 1: a list of core values, he chose ten, such as 131 00:11:13,970 --> 00:11:18,130 Speaker 1: build a positive team and family spirit. He made clear 132 00:11:18,170 --> 00:11:21,330 Speaker 1: to his employees that he expected them to live their 133 00:11:21,410 --> 00:11:25,690 Speaker 1: lives by the ten core values. In his book, he 134 00:11:25,770 --> 00:11:28,930 Speaker 1: tells the story of an employee whose spouse died, and 135 00:11:29,050 --> 00:11:32,450 Speaker 1: her first instinct was not to call a member of 136 00:11:32,450 --> 00:11:37,650 Speaker 1: her actual family but work. She says, that made me 137 00:11:37,770 --> 00:11:41,650 Speaker 1: realize the strong connection I felt with the Zappo's culture. 138 00:11:43,410 --> 00:11:46,770 Speaker 1: Is it wise to get this attached to your employer. 139 00:11:47,610 --> 00:11:50,850 Speaker 1: One thing about actual families is that they don't tend 140 00:11:50,890 --> 00:11:55,410 Speaker 1: to fire you when times get tough. In the two 141 00:11:55,530 --> 00:12:00,370 Speaker 1: thousand and eight downturn, Tony fired eight percent of the 142 00:12:00,850 --> 00:12:05,610 Speaker 1: Zappo's family, then emailed those who remained about how the 143 00:12:05,730 --> 00:12:10,650 Speaker 1: experience actually showcased the strength of the bonds they'd built. 144 00:12:11,170 --> 00:12:15,930 Speaker 1: It was heartwarming, he said, hearing stories of employees and 145 00:12:16,170 --> 00:12:21,050 Speaker 1: ex employees getting together for drinks. After the layoffs. People 146 00:12:21,090 --> 00:12:24,250 Speaker 1: started to say that Zappo's wasn't so much a workplace 147 00:12:24,690 --> 00:12:29,970 Speaker 1: as a cult. Tony didn't mind. His book, quotes another employee. 148 00:12:30,410 --> 00:12:34,770 Speaker 1: If a cult revolves around making people happy, I'll sign 149 00:12:34,890 --> 00:12:40,770 Speaker 1: up anytime. Cautionary tales will be back after the break. 150 00:12:53,610 --> 00:12:56,690 Speaker 1: Tyler Williams had moved to Las Vegas to be a 151 00:12:56,770 --> 00:13:01,010 Speaker 1: drummer with a band. The band didn't work out, but 152 00:13:01,170 --> 00:13:04,410 Speaker 1: Tyler and his wife liked living in Las Vegas, and 153 00:13:04,530 --> 00:13:08,290 Speaker 1: Tyler's wife had found a job marketing energy drinks, so 154 00:13:08,450 --> 00:13:11,410 Speaker 1: they decided Tyler should look for other work in the city. 155 00:13:12,850 --> 00:13:16,370 Speaker 1: Why don't you apply to Zappo's, said his wife. She'd 156 00:13:16,410 --> 00:13:19,410 Speaker 1: just visited the Zappo's office and she'd never seen anything 157 00:13:19,490 --> 00:13:23,290 Speaker 1: like it. There was an open bar for employees, not 158 00:13:23,450 --> 00:13:27,930 Speaker 1: just energy drinks, but vodka and whiskey. People answered the 159 00:13:27,970 --> 00:13:32,530 Speaker 1: phone dressed as pirates or spider man. Plants dangled from 160 00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:36,610 Speaker 1: the ceiling. Cubicles were festooned in streamers and silly string. 161 00:13:37,130 --> 00:13:42,010 Speaker 1: Employees were racing toy cars. Once a year, on Bald 162 00:13:42,090 --> 00:13:46,370 Speaker 1: and Blue Day, everyone shaved their heads and painted Zia 163 00:13:46,530 --> 00:13:49,850 Speaker 1: Zappos on their cheeks in the corporate shade of blue. 164 00:13:51,250 --> 00:13:55,050 Speaker 1: Tyler's wife thought that Zappo's was a very Tyler kind 165 00:13:55,090 --> 00:14:00,010 Speaker 1: of place. It's like an adult daycare, she told him. 166 00:14:00,170 --> 00:14:02,290 Speaker 1: I feel I could drop you off there and be 167 00:14:02,290 --> 00:14:06,050 Speaker 1: comfortable that you'd stay out of trouble. But the Zamy 168 00:14:06,210 --> 00:14:10,890 Speaker 1: workplace culture was widely known. ZA had so many applicants 169 00:14:10,890 --> 00:14:13,410 Speaker 1: for every job, they said it was easier to get 170 00:14:13,450 --> 00:14:17,850 Speaker 1: into Harvard. How was Tyler going to make his applications 171 00:14:18,010 --> 00:14:23,730 Speaker 1: stand out from the crowd. He sent them a video. 172 00:14:24,530 --> 00:14:27,530 Speaker 2: Hey, Zappos. My name is Tyler, and I'm trying to 173 00:14:27,530 --> 00:14:29,530 Speaker 2: get a job with you guys. So what I did 174 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:31,850 Speaker 2: is I wrote a little song based on your guys's 175 00:14:31,890 --> 00:14:35,530 Speaker 2: ten core values, performed it, recorded it, and then we 176 00:14:35,570 --> 00:14:37,530 Speaker 2: made a little video for you guys, and I hope 177 00:14:37,570 --> 00:14:38,290 Speaker 2: you enjoy it. 178 00:14:40,690 --> 00:14:44,490 Speaker 1: Seven versions of Tyler fill the screen on the drums 179 00:14:44,530 --> 00:14:49,770 Speaker 1: at a keyboard on guitars, Maracca's fiddling with a Rubik's Cube. 180 00:14:49,970 --> 00:14:53,650 Speaker 1: It's a family that loves to play, sings Tyler, while 181 00:14:53,730 --> 00:14:57,530 Speaker 1: text on the screen says value number seven. Build a 182 00:14:57,610 --> 00:14:59,810 Speaker 1: positive team and family spirit. 183 00:15:00,330 --> 00:15:02,210 Speaker 3: All my insecurity. 184 00:15:03,570 --> 00:15:06,570 Speaker 1: You can be a little weird if you're humble, sings Tyler. 185 00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:12,770 Speaker 1: Core Value three fun and a little weirdness, core Value ten, 186 00:15:13,530 --> 00:15:22,130 Speaker 1: be humble. Tyler sent in his video, and ten minutes 187 00:15:22,250 --> 00:15:26,970 Speaker 1: later his phone rang. It was Zappo's. He was in. 188 00:15:29,890 --> 00:15:33,410 Speaker 1: Like all new Hires, Tyler started with a training program 189 00:15:33,450 --> 00:15:39,210 Speaker 1: that covered the company's BCP that's brand, culture, and pipeline. 190 00:15:40,130 --> 00:15:43,650 Speaker 1: One way to progress through the pipeline was taking classes 191 00:15:43,690 --> 00:15:50,370 Speaker 1: in Tony's favorite books core Value five Pursue growth and learning. Then, 192 00:15:50,530 --> 00:15:55,650 Speaker 1: like all new Hires, Tyler was given the offer two 193 00:15:55,690 --> 00:16:00,650 Speaker 1: thousand dollars to quit his new job before he'd even started. 194 00:16:01,930 --> 00:16:04,730 Speaker 1: This was a tactic based on that lesson Tony had 195 00:16:04,810 --> 00:16:08,690 Speaker 1: learned about how non believers are a drag on the company. 196 00:16:09,290 --> 00:16:12,930 Speaker 1: It was well worth two thousand dollars to weed out 197 00:16:13,170 --> 00:16:18,090 Speaker 1: any trainee who didn't love the culture. Tyler did love it. 198 00:16:18,930 --> 00:16:23,090 Speaker 1: He started out in the COLT. That's the Customer Loyalty Team, 199 00:16:23,490 --> 00:16:28,570 Speaker 1: otherwise known as the call Center. On Halloween, Tyler came 200 00:16:28,610 --> 00:16:33,970 Speaker 1: to work in an elaborate centaur costume. Tony approached him, 201 00:16:34,570 --> 00:16:38,130 Speaker 1: what are you doing tonight? There's a Halloween parade in Vegas. 202 00:16:38,290 --> 00:16:41,850 Speaker 1: Want to join me on the Zappo's float. I can't, 203 00:16:41,970 --> 00:16:46,570 Speaker 1: said Tyler. I'm playing with my new band. Tony wordlessly 204 00:16:46,610 --> 00:16:51,450 Speaker 1: walked away, and Tyler kicked himself. I've missed my chance 205 00:16:51,530 --> 00:16:56,450 Speaker 1: to hang out with the boss. That night, as Tyler's 206 00:16:56,450 --> 00:17:00,930 Speaker 1: band played to a sparse crowd on a backstreet, the 207 00:17:01,090 --> 00:17:05,930 Speaker 1: Zappo's float parked up then a double decker bus, and 208 00:17:06,010 --> 00:17:11,210 Speaker 1: out came Tony and dozens of employees. They stayed and 209 00:17:11,410 --> 00:17:17,770 Speaker 1: danced and parted. It was such a nice thing to do, 210 00:17:18,210 --> 00:17:22,570 Speaker 1: Tyler remembers, a really kind thing to do. I was 211 00:17:22,690 --> 00:17:26,130 Speaker 1: just a call center agent, and there's a hundred stories 212 00:17:26,130 --> 00:17:28,410 Speaker 1: of how he would do things like that for people, 213 00:17:28,970 --> 00:17:31,730 Speaker 1: things that make you go from I respect this guy 214 00:17:32,250 --> 00:17:37,970 Speaker 1: to I love him. Most call centers train their workers 215 00:17:38,010 --> 00:17:41,010 Speaker 1: to stick to a script, then get through calls as 216 00:17:41,090 --> 00:17:45,090 Speaker 1: quickly as possible. Tony asked his workers to develop a 217 00:17:45,330 --> 00:17:53,450 Speaker 1: PEC with customers that's a personal emotional connection. One woman 218 00:17:53,610 --> 00:17:57,410 Speaker 1: called to ask about shoes and then said, the worker 219 00:17:58,090 --> 00:18:01,850 Speaker 1: we got chatting about her sister. They chatted for over 220 00:18:02,170 --> 00:18:08,130 Speaker 1: five hours. Tony thought this was wonderful. Core value one 221 00:18:08,690 --> 00:18:12,770 Speaker 1: deliver wow through service. You see, he'd liked to say. 222 00:18:13,330 --> 00:18:18,890 Speaker 1: Zappo's isn't an online shoe company, It's a customer service company. 223 00:18:19,370 --> 00:18:27,090 Speaker 1: Don't stress about selling shoes, just deliver the wow. Tyler 224 00:18:27,210 --> 00:18:31,810 Speaker 1: progressed through the pipeline to become the company's fungineer in 225 00:18:31,930 --> 00:18:37,250 Speaker 1: charge of brand Aura. He also became Tony's friend and 226 00:18:37,290 --> 00:18:39,930 Speaker 1: one of the few people who could keep pace with 227 00:18:40,050 --> 00:18:47,130 Speaker 1: Tony's prodigious intake of alcohol, especially Fernit Branca and Italian 228 00:18:47,210 --> 00:18:51,850 Speaker 1: di Justife. When someone asked Tyler what he wished he 229 00:18:51,890 --> 00:18:55,130 Speaker 1: had known before he applied for a job at Zappo's, 230 00:18:55,210 --> 00:18:58,490 Speaker 1: he offered a bromide about how busy it is, and 231 00:18:58,530 --> 00:19:03,890 Speaker 1: then said the amount of furnit, Brancer, I'd be drinking. Seriously, 232 00:19:04,410 --> 00:19:09,650 Speaker 1: we drink a lot of it. Tony got in interested 233 00:19:09,650 --> 00:19:12,490 Speaker 1: in the science of happiness and decided to write a 234 00:19:12,490 --> 00:19:16,530 Speaker 1: book of his own. He took just two weeks, powered 235 00:19:16,570 --> 00:19:21,450 Speaker 1: by headache pills and coffee beans soaked in vodka, to 236 00:19:21,530 --> 00:19:26,650 Speaker 1: be happy. Tony wrote, you need four things. One a 237 00:19:26,730 --> 00:19:30,770 Speaker 1: sense of purpose. This could be, for example, giving great 238 00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:37,090 Speaker 1: customer service. Two a sense of connectedness with others like coworkers, 239 00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:44,210 Speaker 1: work life integration. Remember. Three a sense of perceived control. 240 00:19:45,770 --> 00:19:50,850 Speaker 1: Tony explains how Zappo's links training to pay so employees 241 00:19:50,890 --> 00:19:53,250 Speaker 1: feel in control of what they can do to earn 242 00:19:53,250 --> 00:19:58,650 Speaker 1: a pay rise. And four a sense of perceived progress 243 00:19:58,690 --> 00:20:02,890 Speaker 1: the ability to get promoted up the hierarchy. A four 244 00:20:03,050 --> 00:20:07,450 Speaker 1: point framework for happiness and work could provide all four 245 00:20:09,130 --> 00:20:16,090 Speaker 1: ambitions for Zappo's became more bold and enigmatic long term. 246 00:20:16,570 --> 00:20:21,250 Speaker 1: He mused, it's not even about e commerce necessarily, it's 247 00:20:21,290 --> 00:20:29,690 Speaker 1: about an experiential brand that's really about making people happy. 248 00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:34,690 Speaker 1: What exactly did Tony mean. It's not clear to me, 249 00:20:35,010 --> 00:20:38,810 Speaker 1: and it wasn't clear to Tony's board of directors or investors. 250 00:20:39,410 --> 00:20:42,250 Speaker 1: They thought they invested in an e commerce company that 251 00:20:42,370 --> 00:20:46,170 Speaker 1: aimed to make money selling shoes. The board began to 252 00:20:46,250 --> 00:20:51,810 Speaker 1: mutter dismissively about Tony's social experiments. Tony began to worry 253 00:20:51,810 --> 00:20:55,490 Speaker 1: that they might force him out as CEO, so he 254 00:20:55,530 --> 00:21:00,530 Speaker 1: made a deal with Amazon. Amazon bought Zappo's, Tony's investors 255 00:21:00,570 --> 00:21:04,690 Speaker 1: got their financial exit, and Tony got to stay in charge, 256 00:21:05,130 --> 00:21:10,730 Speaker 1: running things his way. It's easy to see why the 257 00:21:10,770 --> 00:21:14,290 Speaker 1: board of directors might have rolled their eyes at Tony's 258 00:21:14,290 --> 00:21:19,450 Speaker 1: social experiments, the five hour phone calls, the cult like atmosphere, 259 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:24,650 Speaker 1: the endless acronyms, the open bar. Then again, you can 260 00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:29,490 Speaker 1: also understand why Amazon agreed to let Tony stay as CEO. 261 00:21:30,570 --> 00:21:36,650 Speaker 1: Zappo's was doing well. The economist and author John Kay 262 00:21:37,050 --> 00:21:40,930 Speaker 1: has for decades been a wise observer of corporate success 263 00:21:41,010 --> 00:21:46,650 Speaker 1: and failure. Kay writes about the profit seeking paradox. The 264 00:21:46,730 --> 00:21:51,130 Speaker 1: more explicitly a company makes profit its focus, the less 265 00:21:51,170 --> 00:21:55,330 Speaker 1: profitable it tends to be. Kay gives the example of 266 00:21:55,490 --> 00:22:00,050 Speaker 1: Boeing when it launched the seven four seven. A director 267 00:22:00,130 --> 00:22:04,690 Speaker 1: asked about expected return on investment. Ah, yes, came the reply, 268 00:22:05,010 --> 00:22:06,850 Speaker 1: I think someone did look at that, but I can't 269 00:22:06,850 --> 00:22:11,890 Speaker 1: remember what they found. Owing's bosses didn't really care. They 270 00:22:12,010 --> 00:22:15,610 Speaker 1: just wanted to make a cool airplane, and they trusted 271 00:22:15,650 --> 00:22:19,050 Speaker 1: that if they succeeded, the return on investment would probably 272 00:22:19,130 --> 00:22:23,930 Speaker 1: take care of itself. Later, a new CEO took over 273 00:22:24,090 --> 00:22:27,690 Speaker 1: and announced that everyone would have to change their focus, 274 00:22:28,410 --> 00:22:32,210 Speaker 1: think less about the coolness of airplanes and more about 275 00:22:32,330 --> 00:22:39,570 Speaker 1: maximizing shareholder returns. The result, Boeing's planes started to crash, 276 00:22:39,890 --> 00:22:44,370 Speaker 1: and of course, so did Boeing's profits. That's the paradox, 277 00:22:44,690 --> 00:22:48,730 Speaker 1: says Kay. The best way to make profits might actually 278 00:22:48,770 --> 00:22:52,770 Speaker 1: be to encourage your employees to care about something else entirely, 279 00:22:53,530 --> 00:22:58,930 Speaker 1: something like spreading happiness. Crazy as it might have seemed, 280 00:22:59,810 --> 00:23:06,050 Speaker 1: maybe Tony was onto something. In his book on Happiness, 281 00:23:06,210 --> 00:23:11,690 Speaker 1: Tony boasts about Zappo's reaching number six in Fortune magazine's 282 00:23:12,050 --> 00:23:15,490 Speaker 1: annual list of the one hundred best companies to work for. 283 00:23:16,490 --> 00:23:19,810 Speaker 1: But five years after the book was published in twenty fifteen, 284 00:23:20,690 --> 00:23:26,410 Speaker 1: Zappo's had slipped down the rankings to eighty six. The 285 00:23:26,490 --> 00:23:30,410 Speaker 1: next year, it dropped out of the top one hundred altogether. 286 00:23:31,450 --> 00:23:38,370 Speaker 1: Zappo's employees it seemed were no longer so happy? What changed? 287 00:23:40,090 --> 00:23:53,130 Speaker 1: Cautionary tales will be back in a moment. On Necker Island, 288 00:23:53,730 --> 00:23:58,570 Speaker 1: Richard Branson's private retreat in the Caribbean, Tony Say is 289 00:23:58,570 --> 00:24:02,210 Speaker 1: giving a talk to a small group of fellow invitees, 290 00:24:02,970 --> 00:24:08,490 Speaker 1: mostly other business leaders. He's not talking about happiness. He's 291 00:24:08,530 --> 00:24:12,810 Speaker 1: talking about another big new idea that also begins with 292 00:24:13,210 --> 00:24:20,170 Speaker 1: h Holacrasy. He's explaining his quest to turn Zappos into 293 00:24:20,210 --> 00:24:27,050 Speaker 1: a self managing organization. It's not easy to explain Holacrisy 294 00:24:27,130 --> 00:24:31,850 Speaker 1: looks so different from traditional corporate organization that business leaders 295 00:24:31,890 --> 00:24:34,570 Speaker 1: find it hard to get their heads around. There are 296 00:24:34,730 --> 00:24:40,290 Speaker 1: no managers, no departments, no job titles. Instead, there are 297 00:24:40,570 --> 00:24:47,210 Speaker 1: roles and circles. Your org chart changes every day. What's 298 00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:50,490 Speaker 1: an org chart? Says one of the people listening to 299 00:24:50,490 --> 00:24:54,930 Speaker 1: Tony's talk. Tony's surprised to get such a basic question. 300 00:24:55,290 --> 00:24:58,690 Speaker 1: Surely every business leader knows what an org chart is. 301 00:24:59,850 --> 00:25:03,290 Speaker 1: But the questioner isn't a business leader. She's the folk 302 00:25:03,330 --> 00:25:07,370 Speaker 1: singer Jewel, who's also at the retreat on Necker Island, 303 00:25:09,090 --> 00:25:13,290 Speaker 1: explains the idea of an org chart, and Duel follows 304 00:25:13,370 --> 00:25:18,490 Speaker 1: up so you're saying it's like the human body, says Duel. 305 00:25:19,370 --> 00:25:22,530 Speaker 1: The different parts of the body, the liver or the kidneys, 306 00:25:22,690 --> 00:25:25,770 Speaker 1: don't need managers to tell them what to do. They 307 00:25:25,850 --> 00:25:29,530 Speaker 1: just know what to do. And because they're imprinted with 308 00:25:29,650 --> 00:25:33,010 Speaker 1: the same genetic code, they do what's good for the body. 309 00:25:33,490 --> 00:25:37,090 Speaker 1: And you're saying, you're to make Zappos like that, and 310 00:25:37,130 --> 00:25:42,090 Speaker 1: your ten core values are like your genetic code. Tony 311 00:25:42,250 --> 00:25:48,130 Speaker 1: is amazed. Yes, yes, Jewel's explaining helacrisy better than he can. 312 00:25:49,490 --> 00:25:53,330 Speaker 1: He invites Jewel to a meeting for all Zappo's staff, 313 00:25:53,730 --> 00:25:58,090 Speaker 1: where she recounts hearing Tony speak on Necker Island. 314 00:25:59,250 --> 00:26:01,330 Speaker 3: And what I was hearing him described was a company 315 00:26:01,370 --> 00:26:05,610 Speaker 3: as a living, breathing organism that was given life, breathed 316 00:26:05,690 --> 00:26:07,810 Speaker 3: life through its values and what its purpose was. It 317 00:26:07,810 --> 00:26:11,490 Speaker 3: wasn't about shoes, And I found that really fascinating. It 318 00:26:11,530 --> 00:26:12,730 Speaker 3: made me want to pick his brain more. 319 00:26:14,290 --> 00:26:17,690 Speaker 1: Jewel and Tony sit on the stage and chat about 320 00:26:17,810 --> 00:26:23,730 Speaker 1: nature and fractals and entropy and how holacrasy is like 321 00:26:23,770 --> 00:26:27,010 Speaker 1: a body. But also Tony adds how it's like a 322 00:26:27,130 --> 00:26:29,370 Speaker 1: rainforest and a city. 323 00:26:30,410 --> 00:26:33,810 Speaker 4: There's no ceo of the rainforest, but the rainforest is 324 00:26:33,810 --> 00:26:39,010 Speaker 4: self organized. And another city fun fact I like to 325 00:26:39,050 --> 00:26:42,530 Speaker 4: share sometimes is that in all of Manhattan there's only 326 00:26:42,650 --> 00:26:45,290 Speaker 4: something like three days of food supply, but there's no 327 00:26:45,770 --> 00:26:49,450 Speaker 4: central food planner, but the system's amazingly resilting. 328 00:26:49,530 --> 00:26:55,050 Speaker 1: If rainforests don't need a CEO, why should corporations? If 329 00:26:55,130 --> 00:27:01,770 Speaker 1: Manhattan can self organize, why can't Zappos. In practice, though 330 00:27:02,210 --> 00:27:13,010 Speaker 1: the implementation of Holacrasy was not going well, Tyler Williams 331 00:27:13,090 --> 00:27:17,650 Speaker 1: remembers when rumors first spread around Zappo's that the h 332 00:27:17,970 --> 00:27:24,170 Speaker 1: R Department was piloting some strange new ideas about self organization, 333 00:27:25,370 --> 00:27:31,730 Speaker 1: another one of Tony's weird experiments. Everyone shrugged indulgently, but 334 00:27:31,850 --> 00:27:36,010 Speaker 1: soon an email landed in their inboxes. Tony wasn't waiting 335 00:27:36,130 --> 00:27:39,010 Speaker 1: for the results of the pilot. He was going to 336 00:27:39,130 --> 00:27:44,370 Speaker 1: rip the band aid and impose Halacrasy across the whole company. 337 00:27:45,530 --> 00:27:49,610 Speaker 1: Everyone would have to learn the Halacuity Constitution, which was 338 00:27:50,010 --> 00:27:56,570 Speaker 1: full of capitalized words like partner and role and accountabilities. 339 00:27:58,330 --> 00:28:02,810 Speaker 1: A partner Julie Fillinger role shall regularly compare the current 340 00:28:02,930 --> 00:28:07,010 Speaker 1: expression of such roles, purpose and enactment of its accountabilities 341 00:28:07,050 --> 00:28:10,810 Speaker 1: to such partner's sense of an idea potential, expression of 342 00:28:10,810 --> 00:28:14,810 Speaker 1: such purpose, and enactment of such accountabilities to identify gaps 343 00:28:14,850 --> 00:28:18,690 Speaker 1: between the current reality and such a sensed potential. Each 344 00:28:18,930 --> 00:28:23,290 Speaker 1: such shall identified. Such partner shall attempt to reduce such 345 00:28:23,370 --> 00:28:26,650 Speaker 1: tension by identified courses of action, given the authorities and 346 00:28:26,810 --> 00:28:33,130 Speaker 1: other mechanisms available to such partners under this constitution. The 347 00:28:33,330 --> 00:28:39,970 Speaker 1: Halacracy Constitution laid out rules for employee interactions. If someone 348 00:28:40,050 --> 00:28:45,570 Speaker 1: raised a tension, capital t then their circle held a 349 00:28:45,650 --> 00:28:51,650 Speaker 1: tactical meeting to process that tension. No small talk aloud, 350 00:28:52,010 --> 00:28:56,410 Speaker 1: Everyone spoke strictly in turn. There'd be an amend and 351 00:28:56,530 --> 00:29:02,770 Speaker 1: clarify round, an objection round, and then a clarification of 352 00:29:02,810 --> 00:29:08,170 Speaker 1: the tension and reactions. Tony abolished job titles. If you'd 353 00:29:08,210 --> 00:29:10,650 Speaker 1: worked hard enough to be come a manager, tough luck, 354 00:29:10,730 --> 00:29:14,570 Speaker 1: you weren't a manager anymore. Everyone had to find new 355 00:29:15,050 --> 00:29:21,370 Speaker 1: roles to fill in circles to earn people points. Too 356 00:29:21,490 --> 00:29:24,410 Speaker 1: few people points, and you'd be sent to the beach, 357 00:29:24,970 --> 00:29:27,890 Speaker 1: a kind of purgatory where you had two weeks to 358 00:29:27,930 --> 00:29:34,930 Speaker 1: find more rolls and points where you'd be fired. None 359 00:29:34,970 --> 00:29:38,010 Speaker 1: of this sounds very much like how the kidneys work 360 00:29:38,090 --> 00:29:43,370 Speaker 1: with the liver or like a rainforest or Manhattan. Nor 361 00:29:43,450 --> 00:29:45,290 Speaker 1: did it sound like it had anything to do with 362 00:29:45,370 --> 00:29:49,210 Speaker 1: the four point framework for happiness that Tony had laid 363 00:29:49,250 --> 00:29:55,410 Speaker 1: out in his book just a few years before. Happiness 364 00:29:55,530 --> 00:29:59,050 Speaker 1: relied on a sense of perceived progress. Tony had said, 365 00:29:59,530 --> 00:30:04,450 Speaker 1: the ability to get promoted up the hierarchy. That's hard 366 00:30:04,530 --> 00:30:08,850 Speaker 1: when there's no hierarchy. Happiness relied on the sense of 367 00:30:09,090 --> 00:30:12,290 Speaker 1: received control. Tony had said, the knowledge that if you 368 00:30:12,370 --> 00:30:16,810 Speaker 1: did certain things you get a pay rise. Under her Lacrasy, 369 00:30:17,210 --> 00:30:20,810 Speaker 1: nobody at Zappo's had any idea how their new roles 370 00:30:21,090 --> 00:30:25,730 Speaker 1: would translate into salaries. Don't worry, said Tony, We'll figure 371 00:30:25,770 --> 00:30:32,290 Speaker 1: it out. Three years later, they were still trying. Tony 372 00:30:32,330 --> 00:30:37,210 Speaker 1: brought him consultants to help manage the organizational change. One 373 00:30:37,250 --> 00:30:42,290 Speaker 1: described a moment of realization. I'd been speaking to everyone 374 00:30:42,330 --> 00:30:46,170 Speaker 1: on a high level, she said. Then I realized they 375 00:30:46,170 --> 00:30:49,050 Speaker 1: don't care if Zappo's changes the world with their new 376 00:30:49,130 --> 00:30:51,810 Speaker 1: management system. They want to know if they're going to 377 00:30:51,810 --> 00:30:56,930 Speaker 1: get a paycheck next month. Faced with discontent, Tony reached 378 00:30:56,970 --> 00:30:59,730 Speaker 1: for his old trick of getting rid of the non 379 00:30:59,770 --> 00:31:05,330 Speaker 1: believers by offering every employee money to quit. Nearly one 380 00:31:05,570 --> 00:31:08,930 Speaker 1: in five took him up on it. Some complained in 381 00:31:08,970 --> 00:31:13,610 Speaker 1: the exit interviews about shiny buzzwords and half baked ideas. 382 00:31:15,090 --> 00:31:20,050 Speaker 1: Those who remained at Zappo's stopped telling Fortune magazine that 383 00:31:20,090 --> 00:31:26,890 Speaker 1: it was a great place to work. Tony Say wrote 384 00:31:26,890 --> 00:31:31,090 Speaker 1: a best selling book about the importance of making employees happy, 385 00:31:31,770 --> 00:31:35,890 Speaker 1: then imposed a management system that made many of them miserable. 386 00:31:37,050 --> 00:31:41,090 Speaker 1: Why It's a puzzle, but Tony gave us a clue 387 00:31:41,130 --> 00:31:44,530 Speaker 1: to the answer in his book. If you ask anyone 388 00:31:44,690 --> 00:31:47,970 Speaker 1: why they're doing what they're doing, you'll find it's ultimately 389 00:31:48,170 --> 00:31:52,210 Speaker 1: because they want to make themselves happy. Tony must have 390 00:31:52,290 --> 00:31:56,090 Speaker 1: once thought that spreading happiness would make him happy. Then 391 00:31:56,170 --> 00:32:01,050 Speaker 1: he decided that imposing halacrisy would make him happy. I 392 00:32:01,210 --> 00:32:04,930 Speaker 1: think what really made Tony happy was being at the 393 00:32:05,010 --> 00:32:09,290 Speaker 1: bleeding edge of the latest management thinking with it it's 394 00:32:09,490 --> 00:32:16,250 Speaker 1: half baked ideas and shiny buzzwords, purpose culture core values. 395 00:32:17,330 --> 00:32:20,490 Speaker 1: Tony loved the kind of big ideas you'll find neatly 396 00:32:20,570 --> 00:32:24,410 Speaker 1: packaged on the shelves of airport bookstores or in ted 397 00:32:24,490 --> 00:32:29,170 Speaker 1: talks or stage discussions with famous folk singers. Join my 398 00:32:29,330 --> 00:32:35,530 Speaker 1: global happiness movement make corporations like a living, breathing organism. 399 00:32:35,690 --> 00:32:38,770 Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with big ideas. Of course, ideas are great. 400 00:32:39,370 --> 00:32:42,890 Speaker 1: You'll find my own books in airport bookstores. I've given 401 00:32:42,970 --> 00:32:46,970 Speaker 1: Ted talks, I've even spoken at a retreat on Necker Island. 402 00:32:48,170 --> 00:32:52,690 Speaker 1: But when listening to a really spellbinding talk, it's all 403 00:32:52,730 --> 00:32:57,450 Speaker 1: too easy to get carried away. High level ideas, neatly 404 00:32:57,610 --> 00:33:00,330 Speaker 1: packaged and a punchy talk can give you a buzz 405 00:33:01,250 --> 00:33:05,810 Speaker 1: like a shot of Fernet branca. They're intoxicating. But as 406 00:33:05,810 --> 00:33:08,730 Speaker 1: someone who's tried to give those talks, I know that 407 00:33:08,810 --> 00:33:11,730 Speaker 1: to make them engaging you need to leave out all 408 00:33:11,770 --> 00:33:16,250 Speaker 1: the crunchy detail. What sounds amazing on the stage or 409 00:33:16,290 --> 00:33:21,090 Speaker 1: the page isn't always easy to put into practice. You 410 00:33:21,130 --> 00:33:24,370 Speaker 1: need to really think the details through and how they 411 00:33:24,410 --> 00:33:30,290 Speaker 1: apply to you. And that's sober work. Tempting instead to 412 00:33:30,410 --> 00:33:33,770 Speaker 1: try to keep the buzz going. Pick up the next 413 00:33:33,890 --> 00:33:37,530 Speaker 1: airport bestseller, click on the next Ted talk. It's like 414 00:33:37,690 --> 00:33:43,730 Speaker 1: downing one intellectual shot after another. You might not then 415 00:33:43,930 --> 00:33:49,090 Speaker 1: notice that your latest exciting big idea doesn't necessarily cohere 416 00:33:49,170 --> 00:33:52,970 Speaker 1: with your previous big idea, or even make much sense 417 00:33:53,010 --> 00:33:59,370 Speaker 1: on its own terms. If you look more closely take happiness. 418 00:34:00,330 --> 00:34:03,770 Speaker 1: Tony tells us in his book about the Central Insight 419 00:34:03,890 --> 00:34:07,570 Speaker 1: of the Science of Happiness that we mispredict what will 420 00:34:07,570 --> 00:34:10,370 Speaker 1: make us happy, But he doesn't dwell on one of 421 00:34:10,370 --> 00:34:15,010 Speaker 1: the most common mistakes. We tend to overestimate the long 422 00:34:15,170 --> 00:34:20,530 Speaker 1: term boost to our happiness of acquiring new possessions, like 423 00:34:21,410 --> 00:34:25,690 Speaker 1: a new pair of shoes. We might get happiness in 424 00:34:25,730 --> 00:34:29,170 Speaker 1: a box at first when we open a Zappo's delivery. 425 00:34:30,010 --> 00:34:33,410 Speaker 1: Soon though, we'll revert to being about as happy as 426 00:34:33,410 --> 00:34:40,370 Speaker 1: we were before, just with more shoes. No wonder Tony 427 00:34:40,570 --> 00:34:44,330 Speaker 1: was so fond of those vague descriptions of Zappos as 428 00:34:44,370 --> 00:34:49,890 Speaker 1: a customer service company or an experiential brand. Once you 429 00:34:49,970 --> 00:34:53,530 Speaker 1: admit that it's an e commerce business that sells shoes, 430 00:34:54,170 --> 00:34:58,290 Speaker 1: the mission of delivering happiness starts to feel as empty 431 00:34:58,970 --> 00:35:07,290 Speaker 1: as a discarded shoe box. As Zappos struggled with Halacrisy, 432 00:35:07,770 --> 00:35:12,610 Speaker 1: Tony introduced yet another, a big new management idea called 433 00:35:13,330 --> 00:35:18,130 Speaker 1: MBD that's that doesn't really matter what it stands for. 434 00:35:18,970 --> 00:35:24,010 Speaker 1: Tyler Williams was feeling unwell, suffering from nausea and heartburn. 435 00:35:25,410 --> 00:35:30,050 Speaker 1: How much do you drink? His doctor asked, Tyler detailed 436 00:35:30,090 --> 00:35:35,410 Speaker 1: his consumption of Fernet Branker. There's your problem, the doctor said. 437 00:35:36,450 --> 00:35:40,130 Speaker 1: Tony was drinking even more. If Tyler tried to keep 438 00:35:40,210 --> 00:35:44,890 Speaker 1: up shot for shot, he'd pass out. When a friend 439 00:35:45,090 --> 00:35:48,450 Speaker 1: gently asked Tony why he felt such a need to drink, 440 00:35:49,250 --> 00:35:52,210 Speaker 1: he said, it's the only way I can live in 441 00:35:52,250 --> 00:35:57,770 Speaker 1: the now. But Tony agreed to look into alternatives. He 442 00:35:57,810 --> 00:36:02,970 Speaker 1: read more books, watched more Ted talks, and decided he 443 00:36:03,010 --> 00:36:05,730 Speaker 1: could cut back on alcohol with the help of other 444 00:36:05,810 --> 00:36:13,570 Speaker 1: substances psychedelics and which is an anesthetic and hallucinogen. Tony's 445 00:36:13,610 --> 00:36:18,450 Speaker 1: ideas became bigger and hardly baked at all. He wanted 446 00:36:18,490 --> 00:36:21,690 Speaker 1: to solve world peace. He wanted to grow to become 447 00:36:21,810 --> 00:36:28,450 Speaker 1: seven feet tall. He wanted to transcend the matrix. As 448 00:36:28,490 --> 00:36:31,890 Speaker 1: a child, Tony had thought that money meant the freedom 449 00:36:31,970 --> 00:36:36,090 Speaker 1: to do whatever he wanted. As an adult, he had 450 00:36:36,130 --> 00:36:40,410 Speaker 1: become obsessed by the quest for happiness and big ideas. 451 00:36:40,530 --> 00:36:45,690 Speaker 1: He didn't really think through. One of those ideas would 452 00:36:45,730 --> 00:36:50,050 Speaker 1: now lead to tragedy. We'll pick up the story next 453 00:36:50,090 --> 00:36:58,010 Speaker 1: time on Cautionary Tales. Key sources for this episode were 454 00:36:58,370 --> 00:37:02,770 Speaker 1: happy at Any Cost, The Revolutionary Vision and Fatal Quest 455 00:37:02,850 --> 00:37:07,650 Speaker 1: of Zappo's CEO Tony Shay by Katherine Sayre and Kirsten 456 00:37:07,730 --> 00:37:12,970 Speaker 1: grind and wander Boy Tony say Zappo's and The Myth 457 00:37:13,050 --> 00:37:17,050 Speaker 1: of Happiness in Silicon Valley by angel O Young and 458 00:37:17,210 --> 00:37:21,090 Speaker 1: David Jeans. For a full list of sources, see the 459 00:37:21,090 --> 00:37:26,370 Speaker 1: show notes at Timharford dot com. Cautionary Tales is written 460 00:37:26,410 --> 00:37:30,050 Speaker 1: by me Tim Harford with Andrew Wright, Alice Fines, and 461 00:37:30,170 --> 00:37:34,530 Speaker 1: Ryan Dilly. It's produced by Georgia Mills and Marilyn Rust. 462 00:37:35,250 --> 00:37:37,570 Speaker 1: The sound design and original music are the work of 463 00:37:37,730 --> 00:37:43,370 Speaker 1: Pascal Wise bend A. Dafhaffrey edited the scripts. The show 464 00:37:43,570 --> 00:37:46,930 Speaker 1: also wouldn't have been possible without the work of Jacob Weisberg, 465 00:37:47,130 --> 00:37:53,290 Speaker 1: Greta Cohne, Eric Sandler, Carrie Brody, Christina Sullivan, Kira Posey, 466 00:37:53,810 --> 00:37:58,770 Speaker 1: and Owen Miller. Cautionary Tales is a production of Pushkin Industries. 467 00:37:59,170 --> 00:38:02,690 Speaker 1: If you like the show, please remember to share, rate, 468 00:38:02,890 --> 00:38:05,730 Speaker 1: and review. It really does make a difference to us, 469 00:38:06,170 --> 00:38:09,450 Speaker 1: and if you want to hear it, add free and 470 00:38:09,530 --> 00:38:14,410 Speaker 1: receive a bonus audio episode, video episode, and members only 471 00:38:14,490 --> 00:38:18,850 Speaker 1: newsletter every month. Why not join the Cautionary Club. To 472 00:38:18,970 --> 00:38:23,210 Speaker 1: sign up, head to patreon dot com Slash Cautionary Club. 473 00:38:23,330 --> 00:38:27,290 Speaker 1: That's Patreon, p A t R e o N dot 474 00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:30,050 Speaker 1: com Slash Cautionary Club