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Speaker 1: Previously on Queen of the Con. Hey, Michelle, my name's Jonathan.

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Speaker 2: I'm with the Queen of the Con podcast.

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Speaker 1: I just wanted to see if you'd be interested in

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Speaker 1: talking to me about charges and stuff that's going on.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the criminal case against Michelle Mack seems really strong.

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Speaker 3: Obviously, anything can happen. She's innocent until proven guilty. She'll

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Speaker 3: have her day in court if she wants it. But

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Speaker 3: this is going to be a very difficult case for.

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Speaker 1: Her, and it's no secret that lawyers are expensive. So

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Speaker 1: Michelle Mack puts her southern California mansion up for sale

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Speaker 1: and hires a drone photographer to shoot it. But when

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Speaker 1: he gets to her place.

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Speaker 4: There seemed to be a lot of tension in the air,

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Speaker 4: and that was definitely something that I con sense. I thought,

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Speaker 4: you know, possibly it's a divorce situation.

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Speaker 1: I'm Jonathan Walton and this is Queen of the Con

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Speaker 1: Season six, The California Girls, Episode six. You look like

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Speaker 1: a Lebanese jigglow.

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Speaker 4: So I was called out by a real estate agent

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Speaker 4: to shoot a beautiful.

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Speaker 5: House in Bonsel, California.

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Speaker 6: And this house was amazing. I mean, it was truly,

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Speaker 6: truly beautiful.

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Speaker 1: That's Greg Vogel, a southern California real estate photographer who

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Speaker 1: has his own company, Greg Vogel Photography and creates the

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Speaker 1: most beautiful videos of high end homes I've ever seen.

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Speaker 1: I mean, the video he made of Michelle Max's mansion

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Speaker 1: is just next level impressive workman. It looked like a

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Speaker 1: sequel to The Godfather, very sinmatic.

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Speaker 2: Thank you.

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Speaker 1: I love the way you edited to the music to

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Speaker 1: the bead and you got all these sleeping panoramic shots

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Speaker 1: of the vistas and the house and the vineyard and

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Speaker 1: the chapel and the rooms.

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Speaker 2: My god, bravo, thank you, thank you very much.

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Speaker 1: I'm posting the video Greg made of Michelle Mack's opulent

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Speaker 1: Tuscan style mansion at Queen of the KHN on Instagram

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Speaker 1: so you can see what I'm talking about. It's just spectacular.

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Speaker 1: Come to find out, it was actually the realtor that

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Speaker 1: the mansion was listed with who had reached out to

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Speaker 1: Greg to make that video. Did the realtor tell you

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Speaker 1: anything about Michelle Mack and her husband Kenneth before you

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Speaker 1: got there?

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Speaker 7: No, And I'll tell you I don't believe the realtor

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Speaker 7: new gotcha at the time we shot the house, I

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Speaker 7: don't think the realtor even knew what was going on.

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Speaker 1: And you come to find out what was going on?

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Speaker 1: How'd you find out?

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Speaker 5: Yeah?

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Speaker 4: I think well, one of the things that this video

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Speaker 4: seemed to be getting a little more action, which I

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Speaker 4: thought was pretty cool, little more views then normal. And

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Speaker 4: then somebody I don't remember as a friend or somebody

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Speaker 4: sent me a link to you know, the Cali Girl

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Speaker 4: shoplifting thing.

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Speaker 8: Michelle Mack, who, according to serge warrants, lives at this

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Speaker 8: Bonsel home, is behind a nationwide shoplifting ring that target

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Speaker 8: and was just.

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Speaker 5: Blown away, like Holy moly. I couldn't believe that I

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Speaker 5: had actually been there. And then it sort of, you know,

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Speaker 5: made the tension that we were feeling a little more understandable.

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Speaker 1: It kind of made sense what you were walking into,

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Speaker 1: given what's going on.

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Speaker 6: It just it was everything seemed to be very short.

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Speaker 4: You know, I didn't really see them interacting a lot.

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Speaker 4: I probably spent more time with him because you know,

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Speaker 4: he kind of showed me around the grounds and you know,

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Speaker 4: it took me to the top.

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Speaker 5: Of the vineyard to fly the drone.

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Speaker 2: The husband had told.

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Speaker 4: Me that they had a contract with the vintner who

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Speaker 4: took their grades and would supply them with cases of wine.

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Speaker 1: And then all of a sudden, in the middle of

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Speaker 1: our conversation, Greg Vogel drops this on me.

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Speaker 4: Funny enough, the guy I was sitting next to at

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Speaker 4: lunch when you made the first call, and I kind

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Speaker 4: of told him what was up. His daughter is a

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Speaker 4: manager at support.

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Speaker 5: In San Diego.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, and I think he seemed to mention that she

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Speaker 4: had some part in helping.

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Speaker 1: With this, as in helping with the bust of the

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Speaker 1: Michelle Mack shoplifting ring.

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Speaker 4: And if that was something that might be interesting to you,

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Speaker 4: I would see about getting some contact info for you.

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Speaker 1: Oh hell yeah, I would love to talk to her.

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Speaker 4: Okay, Okay.

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Speaker 1: Sadly she didn't want to talk to me, which ninety

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Speaker 1: percent of the time is actually the case I've learned

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Speaker 1: over the years with victims of cons or witnesses of

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Speaker 1: cons especially if it's say the manager of a Sephora,

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Speaker 1: they just don't want to talk publicly about it to

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Speaker 1: anyone ever.

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Speaker 5: Holy mackerel, you know, I can imagine.

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Speaker 1: As for Michelle max Tuscan style mansion.

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Speaker 9: They brought in Stone Brown Sicily to do some of

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Speaker 9: the stone work on the exterior.

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Speaker 1: That's San Diego realtor Austin Glass with AEG real.

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Speaker 9: Estate right, daughter's initials Andy and Elliott AW.

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Speaker 1: He's working in Houston now, but southern California is still

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Speaker 1: his specialty.

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Speaker 9: When I moved, I kept all my relationships and agents

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Speaker 9: and still have a few partners in pretty much every

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Speaker 9: single county in California.

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Speaker 1: And Michelle Max's mansion in San Diego County has been

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Speaker 1: on the market in some form or another for nearly

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Speaker 1: six months as of June twenty twenty four, and yeah,

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Speaker 1: it has not sold. Keep in mind she's been out

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Speaker 1: free as a bird on one hundred and fifty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars bond since February.

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Speaker 9: As an agent looking at any listing, what I saw

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Speaker 9: looks like someone that desperately needs to get a property sold.

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Speaker 9: And the way that I kind of identified that they

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Speaker 9: originally listed it in February twenty four for three point

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Speaker 9: one million, and normally you don't hit a price drop

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Speaker 9: for a while, weeks or months. They hit a price

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Speaker 9: drop to two million, nine hundred and fifty in four days.

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Speaker 9: That's not something you generally see. Then four days after

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Speaker 9: that they dropped it again to two million, seven hundred

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Speaker 9: and fifty thousand, and then removed the listing about thirty

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Speaker 9: days later. So went through these rapid price drops, removed

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Speaker 9: the listing, and then put it back on the market

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Speaker 9: to make it look kind of like a fresh listing

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Speaker 9: for two million, seven hundred and fifty and two months

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Speaker 9: after that it was put on hold, not taking off

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Speaker 9: the market.

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Speaker 1: It's put on hold.

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Speaker 9: So I personally see they're trying to desperately get rid

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Speaker 9: of this thing, and now they're kind of in an

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Speaker 9: unknown situation, which was kind of confirmed by the listing agent.

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Speaker 1: How does a house get put on hold? What does

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Speaker 1: that mean?

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Speaker 9: So being put on hold usually is something that a

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Speaker 9: listing agent would use if a seller is, say doing

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Speaker 9: some work to the property or second guessing the move.

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Speaker 9: Maybe they're escro fell through on their uplaid property or

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Speaker 9: the one they're going to go purchase. So instead of

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Speaker 9: removing the listing and canceling it, which means that they

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Speaker 9: no longer are represented by an agent, it's just basically

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Speaker 9: like saying, hey, time out, let's gather our thoughts, let's

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Speaker 9: figure out what our next steps are. And it makes

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Speaker 9: to where the public can't see it anymore.

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Speaker 1: Ah, but is it still technically for sale? Are they

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Speaker 1: entertained offers? What's the deal? So?

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Speaker 9: I'm sure they would entertain an offer. I didn't ask

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Speaker 9: that specifically of the listing agent when I talked to

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Speaker 9: them very briefly.

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Speaker 1: FYI, I call that listing agent a bunch of times

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Speaker 1: and he never got back to me.

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Speaker 9: But usually when a home is on hold, well at

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Speaker 9: least the guidelines as an agent, you can't show the home.

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Speaker 9: I'm sure they would entertain some sort of blind offer,

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Speaker 9: but usually that offer would have to be somewhat contingent

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Speaker 9: upon interior inspection of the home.

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Speaker 1: Why hasn't this house sold yet? It's beautiful, it seems

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Speaker 1: fairly priced based on the location and the neighbors and

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Speaker 1: the comps. Why hasn't it sold in California is a

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Speaker 1: hot market?

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Speaker 9: Yes, California is a hot market. It is price fairly.

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Speaker 9: I would imagine the reason it hasn't sold is any

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Speaker 9: buyer in that price point is usually really in tune

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Speaker 9: with making sure that they're making a sound decision with

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Speaker 9: where they're putting their money, and anytime that there's something

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Speaker 9: kind of fishy with the property, Like I've had clients

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Speaker 9: call me on a seven hundred thousand dollars property and say, hey,

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Speaker 9: I know we put that off and we really like it,

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Speaker 9: but I saw that the neighbor's home next door was

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Speaker 9: a part of a drug raid or some random thing.

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Speaker 9: I don't know that we want to move forward with

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Speaker 9: this house because we don't really want to be associated

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Speaker 9: with that long term. So the only thing I can think,

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Speaker 9: I would imagine it has to do with if you

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Speaker 9: google the property, you're going to find these articles, and

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Speaker 9: if you're putting a few million bucks somewhere, they might

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Speaker 9: not be thinking it the best long term investment.

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Speaker 1: So I not only google the property, I actually put

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Speaker 1: on an elaborate disguise and walk right up to Michelle

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Speaker 1: Mack's front door after.

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Speaker 6: The break.

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Speaker 1: Welcome back to Queen of the Con. At this point,

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Speaker 1: I'm really wondering what Michelle Max's neighbors are thinking. So

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Speaker 1: I run a background check on her address, and I

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Speaker 1: see that she's got two dozen neighbors in the area,

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Speaker 1: and I dig up their phone numbers and email addresses,

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Speaker 1: and I call and text and email all of them,

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Speaker 1: and no one is getting back to me.

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Speaker 10: If someone called me saying, hey, I host the podcast.

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Speaker 10: Can you talk about your criminal neighbor.

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Speaker 6: I don't know. I don't think i'd get back to

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Speaker 6: you either.

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Speaker 1: My buddy Evan Goldstein. I know it's weird, like nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to talk about it. Especially I've noticed not just

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Speaker 1: victims of cons, but anyone tangentially involved with a con,

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Speaker 1: even just witnesses, like they don't want to talk publicly.

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Speaker 1: They'll tell their friends, they'll tell their family, but they

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Speaker 1: don't want to broadcast it in a podcast.

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Speaker 6: I wonder why, because it's not like they're the criminal.

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Speaker 6: I guess it's just they.

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Speaker 1: Don't want to get involved. I don't want to get involved,

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Speaker 1: like somebody did something bad. I don't want to get involved.

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Speaker 10: And even kind of like the low level version, it's

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Speaker 10: like you're walking up to the grocery store and there's

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Speaker 10: like someone trying to get you to sign a petition

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Speaker 10: or something. Then you might even believe no thanks in

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Speaker 10: what they're talking about. But just like I just got

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Speaker 10: to go. I got other things to do.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, people, you know, we're in a culture now where

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Speaker 1: nobody wants to participate in anything. So I've been thinking.

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Speaker 6: Dangerous.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I should go down there because to the neighborhood,

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Speaker 1: to Michelle max house and talk. Try to talk to

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Speaker 1: her neighbors face to face. Because it's easy to not

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Speaker 1: return to someone's phone calls or emails or texts, or

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Speaker 1: not answer the phone. That's easy. But if someone's in

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Speaker 1: front of your face asking you a.

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Speaker 6: Question, right, no, I get it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm really I'm thinking seriously of driving down there

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Speaker 1: and just what.

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Speaker 6: Knock on doors, see if you can see anyone.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, walk around the neighborhood, see if anyone's out and about.

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Speaker 1: From what I understand, it's this really high end, rich people,

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Speaker 1: mansion y type neighborhood. I wanted to go down there,

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Speaker 1: but I was wondering would you come with me?

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Speaker 6: You know, talking about not wanting to get involved.

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Speaker 1: When you when you want to go this Sunday, let's

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Speaker 1: do it Sunday.

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Speaker 6: You know I'm down man, I'll go. I'll go.

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Speaker 10: I just got to clear it. I just got to

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Speaker 10: clear it with the boss at home. But I will

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Speaker 10: go for sure. I will be there just so you

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Speaker 10: don't get accosted. I'll be your security.

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Speaker 1: It'd be fun drive down to San Diego, talk to

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Speaker 1: the neighbors. Hopefully no one shoots at us. Yeah, if

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Speaker 1: I do go, I'm thinking I need some kind of disguise.

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Speaker 6: I was thinking like Harry Crumbs style.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, like a two pay because Michelle Mack knows me.

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Speaker 1: Michelle Mack knows what I look like outside court. Yeah yeah,

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Speaker 1: so if she sees me walking around her neighborhood, she

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Speaker 1: might freak out and like approach me or like, I

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Speaker 1: don't know, like like try to don't talk to him,

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Speaker 1: or leave me alone or call the cops on me.

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Speaker 2: I don't know.

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Speaker 6: Now I'm more.

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Speaker 10: Now I want to go even more, or just to

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Speaker 10: see you in a two pay Are you gonna get

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Speaker 10: a too pay?

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Speaker 1: I mean that would change because I'm a bald man

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Speaker 1: for people, for listeners who don't know, I'm completely bald,

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Speaker 1: So to pay makes a bald man look.

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Speaker 6: Like like hair is an oh oh, it's totally true.

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Speaker 1: Can change my whole luck.

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Speaker 6: Seeing you with hair is the price of admission alone.

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Speaker 10: Since we're going to this kind of very affluent neighborhood,

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Speaker 10: maybe we should.

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Speaker 6: You know, because people get kind of suspicious.

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Speaker 10: So just strangers walking around, maybe we get like like

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Speaker 10: construction vests, like we're reflective vests, or like helmets or something.

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Speaker 10: Just some people don't call the cops.

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Speaker 1: You just you know, so you look like official, like

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Speaker 1: we're doing something legit, Like we're with the city.

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Speaker 10: Yeah, just like we're with the city of Bonsel, ma'am.

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Speaker 6: We're uh, yeah, don't mind us. We're we're just we're surveying.

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Speaker 1: We're serving whatever census.

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Speaker 6: But it's just like, you know, how often do you

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Speaker 6: see people just kind of you know.

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Speaker 1: No, listen, you're right, A reflective vess gives the allure

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Speaker 1: of like an official, like a legitimate person. And I

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Speaker 1: don't think doing something.

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Speaker 6: I feel like without him, maybe we'll seem more suspicious.

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Speaker 1: And then absolutely, who are those two schmos walking around

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Speaker 1: as opposed to Oh, there's two men in reflective vests.

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Speaker 1: One of them has a stunning head of hair. That's distractive.

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Speaker 1: They must be legit. They must be on official business

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Speaker 1: from the city. That's a good idea. See, you're already

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Speaker 1: pulling your weight. Whatever we're paying you double it. So

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Speaker 1: I start calling around looking to buy a two pay

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Speaker 1: or a hair piece or a hair system as some

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Speaker 1: of them are called, and I am shocked by how

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Speaker 1: much they cost.

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Speaker 7: Our hair systems start a two thousand dollars and go

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Speaker 7: all the way up to five thousand, depending on the

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Speaker 7: style you want.

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Speaker 1: But I find this Vietnamese place in East Los Angeles

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Speaker 1: selling two pays made from real human hair for much

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Speaker 1: much less. So I head on over.

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Speaker 9: The h.

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Speaker 2: Hello, Jason, I called, I'm Jonathan.

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Speaker 5: You good.

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Speaker 2: I'm looking for to pay like realistic? Oh you pulled some.

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Speaker 1: I'm staring now at a wall of shelves with dozens

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Speaker 1: of mannequin heads sporting every kind of hair piece and

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Speaker 1: to pay under the sun. Fortunately the sales guy, Jason

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Speaker 1: pulled a few for me that he thought would work

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Speaker 1: based on what I told him over the phone.

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Speaker 2: They look real.

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Speaker 1: Figuring out the right to pay to wear is kind

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00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:39,840
Speaker 1: of like falling in love. You've got to kiss a

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Speaker 1: lot of frogs to find the one that's meant for you.

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Speaker 2: I mean, this looks the most realistic, right? And how

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Speaker 2: much is this one? This is a blue Jonil four

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Speaker 2: hundred and fifty. I gotta give prize is three hundred

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Speaker 2: or twenty three hundred twenty for this one?

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Speaker 1: Yes, you might be asking your what I was asking

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Speaker 1: myself at that point, How the hell am I going

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Speaker 1: to get this cranial murkin to stay affixed to the

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Speaker 1: top of my head for an entire day.

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Speaker 2: Like, how would I get it to stay on?

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Speaker 1: Instead of answering my question directly, wig Kahuna, Jason slips

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Speaker 1: me a small plastic envelope containing strips.

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Speaker 2: Of double sided tape.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and what I would just put these so easie.

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Speaker 2: And it sticks. Put three Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Gotta say the two pay was the absolute right call.

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Speaker 1: I look like a completely different person as Jason finishes

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Speaker 1: taping it really securely to my scalp.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I can feel the grip. Wow, so that's on there.

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Speaker 2: Shake that up? Yeah, no, that's on there.

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Speaker 1: I'm posting before and after shots of me and my

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Speaker 1: new three hundred and twenty dollars hairpiece at Queen of

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Speaker 1: the Cohn on Instagra, so you can see what a

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Speaker 1: difference a head of hair can make on a bald man.

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Speaker 1: The next day, it's go time. My alarm screeches at

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Speaker 1: four am. I'm up, excited like a kid on Christmas morning.

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Speaker 1: I slap that two pay on top of my head

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Speaker 1: and I tape it down just like Jason showed me,

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Speaker 1: and it looks like crap, utter, crap. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what happened. This hair seems to have a mind of

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Speaker 1: its own. So in a hurried panic because I gotta

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Speaker 1: leave soon to pick Evan up so we can drive

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Speaker 1: down to San Diego. I wet it, I blow dry it,

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Speaker 1: I put some gel in it, and I hair spray

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Speaker 1: the hell out of it and hudgh it up and

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Speaker 1: it looks better. But I'm beginning to regret not spending

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Speaker 1: two thousand dollars on one of those fancy high end

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Speaker 1: hair systems. When it comes to two pays, I'm learning

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Speaker 1: you kind of get what you pay for. Anyway. I

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Speaker 1: pull up to Evans's house at the crack of dawn

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Speaker 1: and walk up to his front door. Keep in mind

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Speaker 1: he has not seen my new hair yet. Evan comes

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Speaker 1: out with his wife and kids and cannot stop laughing.

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Speaker 6: Oh my god, good morning.

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Speaker 5: Hi.

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Speaker 1: Can I say hi. Evan's kids, who know me very well,

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00:18:35,840 --> 00:18:40,399
Speaker 1: do not recognize me at all, and they look terrified

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Speaker 1: as their mom, Evan's wife, Christine, tries to comfort them.

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Speaker 11: Hi, he's so cute. It's so bizarre.

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Speaker 2: But I got hair now. But it's means like.

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Speaker 9: A week for like Halloween.

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Speaker 1: It's a costume. I actually take it as a good sign.

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Speaker 1: I mean, if Evans kids don't recognize me, surely Michelle

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Speaker 1: Mack won't either.

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Speaker 11: All right, bye, guys, we're gonna go beat the traffic.

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Speaker 6: Okay, I'll see you later, listeners.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, all right.

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Speaker 1: So we get in the car and settle in for

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Speaker 1: our two and a half hour drive to San Diego,

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Speaker 1: and almost immediately my new hair stuck to my scalp

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Speaker 1: with industrial strength double sided tape starts bugging the hell

359
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Speaker 1: out of me. I'm hating it because it's uncomfortable. I'm sweating.

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Speaker 1: It took an hour and it still looks like shit,

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Speaker 1: But it took an hour to look this shitty.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, I feel I feel like I feel like I

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00:19:54,640 --> 00:19:58,440
Speaker 11: need to take you to like Tiffany's for a shopping spree.

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00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,840
Speaker 11: It's like from Pretty Woman, like it's just you with

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Speaker 11: hair is just like a whole new thing.

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Speaker 1: But let me tell you, there was this I went

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Speaker 1: into Starbucks before I got here to get you that

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Speaker 1: coffee that's her coffee, and this girl could not stop

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00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:16,280
Speaker 1: looking at me. Really, so do you think she was like, who's.

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Speaker 6: That hottie with that wavy hair? I think so? Or

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00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:23,960
Speaker 6: she like what the fuck is that in that guy's head.

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Speaker 2: I mean, does it does it look real?

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Speaker 6: It doesn't.

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Speaker 11: It doesn't, I know, because it's like, I know, it's

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Speaker 11: hard to visualize you with hair, but maybe here it is.

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Speaker 11: You look like you should have like one long pinky

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Speaker 11: fingernail just for coke.

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Speaker 1: It's a cheap hair piece. I didn't know they cost

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00:20:44,640 --> 00:20:46,719
Speaker 1: thousands of dollars. Yeah, well, and we don't have that

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Speaker 1: in the budget.

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Speaker 6: It's a lot harder than I thought it was gonna be. Yeah,

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Speaker 6: you definitely put.

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Speaker 12: A lot of Yeah, I got bold holed or something.

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Speaker 12: It like reminds me of my grandma Eyeda's hair. It

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Speaker 12: was just so crispy. She from the beauty parlor, and

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00:21:02,119 --> 00:21:04,680
Speaker 12: it's just like, don't touch the hair. But all that

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00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,920
Speaker 12: really matters is is that I look like a different person.

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Speaker 12: You look like a different person, said, Mission accomplished.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, well part of the mission anyway. Who knew this

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Speaker 1: episode would end with me and Evan running from the

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Speaker 1: cops after the break. Welcome back to Queen of the Cohn.

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Speaker 1: Evan and I just drove two and a half hours

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Speaker 1: down Interstate five from Los Angeles to Bonzol, California. That

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Speaker 1: exclusive community just north of San Diego, and all of

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00:21:38,560 --> 00:21:42,280
Speaker 1: a sudden, it feels like we're in a different country

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Speaker 1: all together.

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Speaker 2: God, it's beautiful out here.

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Speaker 6: Yeah, it's amazing. I see vineyards over there.

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Speaker 1: Vineyards literally looks like Italy fruit trees. It looks like

400
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,840
Speaker 1: the rolling hills of Italy in.

401
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Speaker 2: The Tuscan region.

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Speaker 6: Is it a gated community?

403
00:21:59,040 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 1: I looked on Google Map and I couldn't find any

404
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:03,879
Speaker 1: gate or anything. It looks anyone can drive up to it.

405
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:08,240
Speaker 1: But I was wrong, because when we get to Michelle

406
00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:16,359
Speaker 1: Mack's neighborhood, we're met with a giant, wrought iron gate. God,

407
00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:18,000
Speaker 1: these weren't fucking cool maps.

408
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:19,440
Speaker 5: What are you gonna try?

409
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,480
Speaker 1: I'm gonna try driving in behind another car.

410
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Speaker 2: We're in, Baby, We're in, all right.

411
00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:31,679
Speaker 1: God, this is such an amazing place.

412
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Speaker 6: Beautiful. But look at that house on the hill, just giant.

413
00:22:39,080 --> 00:22:44,120
Speaker 1: This neighborhood is unreal. Each humongous house sits on acres

414
00:22:44,160 --> 00:22:47,240
Speaker 1: of land on its own hill, and there are a

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00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:51,199
Speaker 1: couple dozen houses on a couple dozen different hills, and

416
00:22:51,359 --> 00:22:54,480
Speaker 1: winding tree lined streets connecting all of them.

417
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:55,159
Speaker 11: These roads.

418
00:22:55,160 --> 00:22:59,119
Speaker 1: Man, it feels like we're in Italy or Greece or

419
00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:03,359
Speaker 1: any place famed for rolling hills and vineyards and junipra trees.

420
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 1: Look at this house, Jesus, Wow, Like what the hell

421
00:23:09,560 --> 00:23:12,520
Speaker 1: did these people do for a living? Well, we know

422
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:15,440
Speaker 1: one of them stolen stuff on Amazon.

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Speaker 6: That's true. Who knows, you know?

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Speaker 11: And like this whole community just like every house is

425
00:23:23,040 --> 00:23:24,840
Speaker 11: just baller to the max.

426
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Speaker 9: Wow.

427
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Speaker 11: God, just like on top of the hill and like

428
00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:31,679
Speaker 11: you could just see this rolling landscape just kind of

429
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Speaker 11: unfurl out.

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Speaker 1: I wrote a bunch of letters that I'm gonna hand

431
00:23:36,680 --> 00:23:40,080
Speaker 1: out if we se any neighbors. But what sucks is

432
00:23:40,440 --> 00:23:44,680
Speaker 1: we don't actually see any neighbors anywhere, and I'm too

433
00:23:44,840 --> 00:23:48,439
Speaker 1: terrified to knock on any front doors unannounced because of

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00:23:48,560 --> 00:23:52,320
Speaker 1: all the recent murders being reported across the country where

435
00:23:52,480 --> 00:23:56,720
Speaker 1: someone shows up unexpectedly and the homeowner just shoots them

436
00:23:56,840 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: dead at the front door.

437
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,360
Speaker 12: Yorkman is facing second agree murder charges for allegedly shooting

438
00:24:03,359 --> 00:24:06,720
Speaker 12: and killing a twenty year old woman when she mistakenly

439
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:08,480
Speaker 12: arrived at the wrong address.

440
00:24:09,720 --> 00:24:12,399
Speaker 6: Ultimately, we have no idea what we're walking into.

441
00:24:12,920 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: So we decide to drive around for a while, hoping

442
00:24:16,200 --> 00:24:18,399
Speaker 1: to find a neighbor to talk to. While they're walking

443
00:24:18,440 --> 00:24:21,919
Speaker 1: their dog or out for a jog or something, but

444
00:24:22,280 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: the streets are empty. Eventually, we decide to drive up

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00:24:28,760 --> 00:24:30,399
Speaker 1: to where Michelle Max's house is.

446
00:24:35,600 --> 00:24:36,680
Speaker 11: It's right here on the right.

447
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:40,240
Speaker 6: Is that her vineyard.

448
00:24:40,280 --> 00:24:42,399
Speaker 11: I can't tell if it's like a neighbor's vineyard or

449
00:24:42,440 --> 00:24:43,200
Speaker 11: her vineyard.

450
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:44,640
Speaker 1: It's like everyone's got a vineyard.

451
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:47,359
Speaker 2: It doesn't seem like there's anyone there. I think the

452
00:24:47,359 --> 00:24:50,840
Speaker 2: house is abandoned. I mean there's no furniture. Looking look

453
00:24:50,880 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: in the windows. Fine, there's no furniture there.

454
00:24:54,480 --> 00:24:57,000
Speaker 1: Looking up at the house from the hill below, it

455
00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:01,479
Speaker 1: seems abandoned. All of the windows are bare, no curtains

456
00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:04,560
Speaker 1: or shutters, and we can see that there is clearly

457
00:25:04,880 --> 00:25:09,680
Speaker 1: no furniture inside. The house is empty.

458
00:25:09,840 --> 00:25:11,399
Speaker 2: Cars in the driveway, no cars in the driveway.

459
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:13,280
Speaker 6: Okay, let's just park in the driveway.

460
00:25:14,160 --> 00:25:17,600
Speaker 1: So we take a chance and drive up Michelle Mack's

461
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:23,080
Speaker 1: winding driveway. We park in front of her giant four

462
00:25:23,160 --> 00:25:27,719
Speaker 1: car garage where law enforcement agents confiscated nearly four hundred

463
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:31,560
Speaker 1: thousand dollars worth of stolen stuff back in December, and

464
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:34,800
Speaker 1: we actually get out of the car and walk around.

465
00:25:36,640 --> 00:25:39,800
Speaker 1: Keep in mind we're wearing hard hats and bright yellow

466
00:25:39,840 --> 00:25:44,320
Speaker 1: reflective vests and my two pay is on fleek. I'm

467
00:25:44,359 --> 00:25:46,840
Speaker 1: posting video of us at Queen of the Con on

468
00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:48,440
Speaker 1: Instagram so you can see.

469
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,480
Speaker 6: So what's our cover story if someone does come.

470
00:25:51,320 --> 00:26:01,800
Speaker 1: Out, We're just looking for gas leak. It looks abandoned, right, yeah,

471
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: looks like no one's here.

472
00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:04,320
Speaker 6: Oh look, there's the chapel.

473
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:05,600
Speaker 2: That's the chapel.

474
00:26:05,840 --> 00:26:08,040
Speaker 6: I see the stained glass.

475
00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,199
Speaker 1: Walking around the perimeter of the house. Now there's like

476
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:19,720
Speaker 1: rolling fields of vineyard and vegetation and planets. There's like

477
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,640
Speaker 1: ten thousand lemons on that tree. Why don't they pick them?

478
00:26:22,800 --> 00:26:24,080
Speaker 6: I think she's busy right now.

479
00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:34,560
Speaker 1: All of a sudden in the distance. Oh so I

480
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,840
Speaker 1: hear the I hear the cops, Dode, I think we

481
00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,960
Speaker 1: should go. Dude, do you hear Do you think they

482
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:40,639
Speaker 1: called them for us?

483
00:26:40,640 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 6: I don't know.

484
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:50,200
Speaker 1: Maybe I'm not even kidding, I know, should you book it?

485
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:52,800
Speaker 2: Yeah?

486
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:53,800
Speaker 11: Alright, let's go.

487
00:26:54,280 --> 00:26:56,160
Speaker 6: We're running from running because.

488
00:26:55,920 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 1: You heard the sirens, right, yeah, yeah, let's roll running

489
00:26:58,960 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 1: from the cops.

490
00:27:01,119 --> 00:27:03,639
Speaker 11: Let's go. Yeah, they were definitely getting closer.

491
00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:11,240
Speaker 1: Somebody called the cops, so it's like, belts, let's go.

492
00:27:11,840 --> 00:27:12,919
Speaker 6: Put it on while you're driving.

493
00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:16,080
Speaker 13: Come on, okay, I just don't want, like, you know,

494
00:27:16,160 --> 00:27:18,640
Speaker 13: I don't want my son to visit me at jail today.

495
00:27:19,080 --> 00:27:22,399
Speaker 13: It almost makes this more guilty looking with it, like

496
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:24,000
Speaker 13: wearing disguises.

497
00:27:23,440 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 1: Like we don't want to get hit.

498
00:27:25,760 --> 00:27:29,040
Speaker 6: We're with Gold Gold Scene and Walton Construction. Uh you know,

499
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 6: we're just checking out the valves.

500
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:38,160
Speaker 1: God, dude, my my two pay is drenched in sweat.

501
00:27:38,400 --> 00:27:39,720
Speaker 1: It's dripping down my face.

502
00:27:41,200 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 11: I see it.

503
00:27:41,960 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 1: I want to get this off of me, drenched in

504
00:27:44,920 --> 00:27:48,199
Speaker 1: sweat and hearts pounding. We wait around for a bit

505
00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: down the street to see if police ever actually do

506
00:27:51,040 --> 00:27:55,960
Speaker 1: show up, and they never do, so I guess it

507
00:27:56,080 --> 00:27:58,879
Speaker 1: was a false alarm and nobody called the cops on us.

508
00:27:58,920 --> 00:27:59,400
Speaker 1: After all.

509
00:28:00,520 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 6: Well, it seems like we're home free now.

510
00:28:02,240 --> 00:28:04,360
Speaker 1: But famous last words, that's true.

511
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:06,960
Speaker 6: They're just gonna be waiting at the bottom of the gate.

512
00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 1: Here, guns drawn, come out of the vehicle, hurt your

513
00:28:11,160 --> 00:28:16,240
Speaker 1: hands up, but we make it out unscathed. I am worried, though,

514
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:19,120
Speaker 1: like how bad did we just break the law right now?

515
00:28:19,440 --> 00:28:22,440
Speaker 1: I mean, there were no signs that said private property

516
00:28:22,520 --> 00:28:25,240
Speaker 1: or no trust passing or anything like that posted at those.

517
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 8: Gates if there's nothing posted, technically speaking, you're not trespassing.

518
00:28:31,200 --> 00:28:35,440
Speaker 1: Sergeant Jordan Morakian, again a veteran cop in southern California

519
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: with more than twenty years in law enforcement.

520
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:41,240
Speaker 8: When you get to a gated property and you bypass

521
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:45,719
Speaker 8: that gate, even when you bypass that gate, you're not

522
00:28:45,800 --> 00:28:49,000
Speaker 8: trespassing until somebody says you are. Like in Laguna Beach

523
00:28:49,000 --> 00:28:52,520
Speaker 8: where I used to work, we had gated communities there too.

524
00:28:52,680 --> 00:28:55,800
Speaker 8: We had Emerald Bay, which was a big one, and

525
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,520
Speaker 8: people would wait at the gate and go in there

526
00:28:59,080 --> 00:29:03,479
Speaker 8: because they wanted to access the private beach. Ah right, so,

527
00:29:04,840 --> 00:29:07,320
Speaker 8: and we would get calls from security there, Hey there's

528
00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:09,520
Speaker 8: a family of four on the beach, we want them

529
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 8: out of here. And we would ask them to leave,

530
00:29:12,120 --> 00:29:12,840
Speaker 8: and they would leave.

531
00:29:12,680 --> 00:29:14,479
Speaker 1: And they would leave because at that point, if they

532
00:29:14,520 --> 00:29:16,480
Speaker 1: refuse to leave, that's trespassing.

533
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:20,000
Speaker 8: It is if the security guard is willing to press charges.

534
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:22,920
Speaker 1: Oh god, it's that other step, right, And how often

535
00:29:23,000 --> 00:29:24,800
Speaker 1: is it that that person doesn't want to sign a

536
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:26,760
Speaker 1: paper or get involved or press charges.

537
00:29:27,560 --> 00:29:31,200
Speaker 8: I would say about seventy percent of the time, maybe eighty.

538
00:29:31,480 --> 00:29:33,520
Speaker 1: The other thing I was not aware of when it

539
00:29:33,520 --> 00:29:34,920
Speaker 1: comes to gated communities.

540
00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:40,680
Speaker 8: If those roads are publicly maintained, the gate is aesthetic only.

541
00:29:40,760 --> 00:29:44,640
Speaker 8: It's just there to give the appearance of access control.

542
00:29:45,240 --> 00:29:45,960
Speaker 2: Good to know.

543
00:29:48,120 --> 00:29:51,680
Speaker 1: Anyway, We get back to LA and as the days pass,

544
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:55,240
Speaker 1: I start getting curious about when Michelle Mack will be

545
00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,800
Speaker 1: in court next. I'm told that for a huge case

546
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:01,840
Speaker 1: like hers, trial might be at least a year or

547
00:30:01,880 --> 00:30:07,160
Speaker 1: two or possibly three years away. So I definitely want

548
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:09,680
Speaker 1: to keep tabs on all her pre trial hearings and

549
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 1: court appearances. But I'm not finding any dates for her

550
00:30:14,120 --> 00:30:18,040
Speaker 1: case listed on the courthouse website, and god knows, I

551
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:20,800
Speaker 1: do not feel like driving all the way back down

552
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:23,560
Speaker 1: to San Diego again to wait in line at the

553
00:30:23,560 --> 00:30:28,160
Speaker 1: clerk's office. So on June seventeenth, I go on Yelp

554
00:30:28,480 --> 00:30:33,280
Speaker 1: and find a company called my Paralegal Services in San Diego,

555
00:30:33,720 --> 00:30:36,680
Speaker 1: and I pay them one hundred bucks to go to

556
00:30:36,720 --> 00:30:39,560
Speaker 1: the courthouse and get me a copy of the latest

557
00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,320
Speaker 1: docket in the Michelle Matt case so I can see

558
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: when the next hearing is scheduled. And a couple hours later,

559
00:30:48,160 --> 00:30:52,000
Speaker 1: my paral legal services, Nora Raffi, calls me out load

560
00:30:52,320 --> 00:30:53,840
Speaker 1: and blows my mind.

561
00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:55,120
Speaker 14: Hey, it's Nora.

562
00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,280
Speaker 2: Hey Laura. How's it going pretty good?

563
00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 14: So I just wanted to give you an update. I

564
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:03,440
Speaker 14: went to the clerk's office this morning to pull the

565
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:07,040
Speaker 14: file on Michelle Mack. They told me that her file

566
00:31:07,280 --> 00:31:10,240
Speaker 14: was actually in the courtroom because there was a hearing

567
00:31:10,280 --> 00:31:15,080
Speaker 14: this morning. Uh yeah, she there was a hearing and

568
00:31:15,160 --> 00:31:22,640
Speaker 14: she actually pled guilty. No way, Yeah, she pled guilty. Guilty,

569
00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:25,520
Speaker 14: she shure did, she shared?

570
00:31:25,520 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 4: Did?

571
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,080
Speaker 14: She was represented by her attorney, and there's going to

572
00:31:31,120 --> 00:31:36,080
Speaker 14: be a probation slash sentencing hearing scheduled for July eighteenth

573
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:38,560
Speaker 14: at one thirty in Department eleven.

574
00:31:38,600 --> 00:31:43,479
Speaker 2: Oh one, Wow, God, I'm like pulled over. She fled guilty.

575
00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 2: So this is going to end pretty quickly. It was

576
00:31:45,360 --> 00:31:48,560
Speaker 2: supposed to go on for years, I was told.

577
00:31:48,680 --> 00:31:51,280
Speaker 1: And had she gone the trial, it certainly would have.

578
00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: But she pled, as did her husband, Kenneth.

579
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:58,400
Speaker 3: Based on what we saw on the complaint, I'm not surprised.

580
00:31:58,560 --> 00:32:01,360
Speaker 3: It looked like there was a very strong case, right.

581
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,560
Speaker 1: Former federal prosecutor and current defense attorney Scott Tenley.

582
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:10,200
Speaker 3: Again, as I recall, we had text messages between her

583
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 3: and one of the individuals that was stealing some of

584
00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:16,400
Speaker 3: the merchandise. We had a search warrant presumably executed at

585
00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:19,440
Speaker 3: her home where they found all the goods. There was

586
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 3: evidence that the store was hers, the Amazon store, and

587
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,160
Speaker 3: presumably there was a wealth of other evidence on the

588
00:32:26,200 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 3: computers and cell phones and other things that they seized,

589
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: So it looks like a very strong case now. Likely

590
00:32:33,640 --> 00:32:37,840
Speaker 3: what happened is after she was arrested, her attorney got

591
00:32:37,840 --> 00:32:42,560
Speaker 3: ahold of the discovery. They confirmed that she was fucked,

592
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:47,400
Speaker 3: which is a legal term we sometimes used. And the

593
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 3: best offer, the best deal that she could get, was

594
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 3: one she took quickly before putting the government to its

595
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:56,280
Speaker 3: paces and going through hearings and calling in witnesses and

596
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,760
Speaker 3: things like that. So probably this is one of the

597
00:32:59,760 --> 00:33:03,120
Speaker 3: most recent wise decisions she's made, was to take a deal.

598
00:33:04,160 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 1: And for people who don't know, what is discovery.

599
00:33:07,880 --> 00:33:11,720
Speaker 3: So discovery is what the government hands over to every

600
00:33:11,760 --> 00:33:15,640
Speaker 3: defendant in every criminal case, which is the evidence they've

601
00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:19,600
Speaker 3: developed in the investigation and the evidence that they might

602
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:22,960
Speaker 3: use against you a trial. So you'll see police reports,

603
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,400
Speaker 3: you'll see all the cell phone communications they've seized, you'll

604
00:33:26,440 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 3: see subpoenad records from banks, from Amazon, everything they've collected,

605
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:34,360
Speaker 3: they turn that over to the defense and allow the

606
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:37,840
Speaker 3: defense to review it and either see that this is

607
00:33:37,880 --> 00:33:41,320
Speaker 3: a very tough case, my client is guilty, or learn

608
00:33:41,360 --> 00:33:43,440
Speaker 3: of ways they can defend the case. And here are

609
00:33:43,440 --> 00:33:46,680
Speaker 3: the problems, here are the holes. But the defense attorney

610
00:33:46,680 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 3: and the defendant won't know it until they get all

611
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:51,600
Speaker 3: that from the government, and that's usually disclosed at the

612
00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:53,880
Speaker 3: outset of the case after you're arrested.

613
00:33:54,240 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 1: And get this weeks earlier. The prosecutor and the Michelle

614
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,360
Speaker 1: matt case actually stated in court that she was offering

615
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:04,840
Speaker 1: plea deals to some of the lower level California girls.

616
00:34:05,040 --> 00:34:07,960
Speaker 3: That's the other interesting thing about something like this, Jonathan,

617
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:11,160
Speaker 3: is when you start having a larger and larger conspiracy,

618
00:34:11,200 --> 00:34:13,160
Speaker 3: you're always going to be at risk that one of

619
00:34:13,160 --> 00:34:15,759
Speaker 3: the lower level players, they're going to be looking to

620
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 3: get out of trouble and they cooperate.

621
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,480
Speaker 1: And that is exactly what appears to have happened, prompting

622
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:26,399
Speaker 1: Michelle Mack to plead guilty on June seventeenth, twenty twenty four.

623
00:34:27,280 --> 00:34:29,760
Speaker 3: So they made her eat the two most serious charges,

624
00:34:29,880 --> 00:34:32,680
Speaker 3: which was like, how you phrased that conspiracy to commit

625
00:34:32,840 --> 00:34:36,400
Speaker 3: organize retail theft and then organize retail theft. This substantive defense.

626
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:39,920
Speaker 3: And then she also admitted what's called an aggravating sentencing

627
00:34:39,920 --> 00:34:43,040
Speaker 3: factor under California law, and that's an enhancement that can

628
00:34:43,080 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 3: make the penalties greater for the underlying crime. So here

629
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:50,400
Speaker 3: she admitted to an aggravated white collar crime enhancement, and

630
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:53,719
Speaker 3: depending on the dollar amount that's involved, that can add

631
00:34:53,760 --> 00:34:56,160
Speaker 3: from one to two years to the sentence, potentially all

632
00:34:56,200 --> 00:34:59,000
Speaker 3: the way up to five years additional to her sentence.

633
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:01,520
Speaker 3: So it's not a crime she pleaded guilty too, but

634
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 3: also this enhancement that will factor into her sentencing.

635
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:12,480
Speaker 1: One month later, on July eighteenth, twenty twenty four, the

636
00:35:12,560 --> 00:35:18,400
Speaker 1: shoplifting queen stands before a California judge and throws herself

637
00:35:18,440 --> 00:35:21,799
Speaker 1: at the mercy of the court. She's hoping for no

638
00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: jail time and just probation, but she is sorely disappointed.

639
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:33,680
Speaker 10: Michelle Mack of Bonsel, California received a delayed sentence of

640
00:35:33,760 --> 00:35:35,280
Speaker 10: five years and four months.

641
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,840
Speaker 1: My buddy Evan Goldstein, again reading news coverage of Michelle

642
00:35:39,880 --> 00:35:41,080
Speaker 1: Mack's sentencing hearing.

643
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,040
Speaker 10: Her husband Kenneth received the same sentence and is already incarcerated.

644
00:35:46,520 --> 00:35:48,720
Speaker 10: As part of his plea deal, he will be released

645
00:35:48,760 --> 00:35:52,200
Speaker 10: after one year and then put on probation and community

646
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:55,800
Speaker 10: service for the remainder of his sentence. The judge allowed

647
00:35:55,840 --> 00:35:58,719
Speaker 10: mac to serve her sentence after her husband is released

648
00:35:59,280 --> 00:36:02,680
Speaker 10: so she can care for their children. The couple must

649
00:36:02,719 --> 00:36:07,279
Speaker 10: also pay about three million dollars in restitution to Aulta

650
00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,720
Speaker 10: and another thirteen thousand to Serfhora.

651
00:36:09,920 --> 00:36:11,800
Speaker 6: According to a court official.

652
00:36:12,680 --> 00:36:16,280
Speaker 1: It's just insane. She got off so lights five years,

653
00:36:16,560 --> 00:36:18,120
Speaker 1: but she's not going to serve five because look what

654
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,400
Speaker 1: they're doing to the husband. He got a five year sentence,

655
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,160
Speaker 1: but he only has to serve one if they follow

656
00:36:23,239 --> 00:36:26,000
Speaker 1: that logic, she's only going to serve one. Yeah, she's

657
00:36:26,040 --> 00:36:28,279
Speaker 1: got three kids, which my heart goes out to those

658
00:36:28,320 --> 00:36:30,960
Speaker 1: three kids. It must be hell to have a mother

659
00:36:31,040 --> 00:36:34,839
Speaker 1: and father convicted of this this crime, you know, man.

660
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:36,360
Speaker 1: And as bad as I feel for the kids, it

661
00:36:36,440 --> 00:36:39,640
Speaker 1: just sends the wrong message to every other shoplifting queen

662
00:36:39,719 --> 00:36:42,040
Speaker 1: in the world, like you can steal millions and millions

663
00:36:42,080 --> 00:36:44,239
Speaker 1: of dollars and just get She's probably only going to

664
00:36:44,280 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: spend a year behind a.

665
00:36:45,239 --> 00:36:48,080
Speaker 6: Year and then probation granted, she has to pay restitution.

666
00:36:48,200 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: But like FYI, my con artist was ordered to pay

667
00:36:51,320 --> 00:36:54,799
Speaker 1: me restitution and enough fucking dime. You know how hard

668
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:56,759
Speaker 1: it is to collect restitution. And you know what she

669
00:36:56,840 --> 00:36:59,799
Speaker 1: did with her new scams. She started an LLC, So

670
00:37:00,080 --> 00:37:02,040
Speaker 1: that money in the LLC I can't touch with my

671
00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,759
Speaker 1: restitution order. Restitution is this big misnomer. It's not worth

672
00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:08,440
Speaker 1: the paper it's printed on. I guarantee you in my experience.

673
00:37:08,760 --> 00:37:12,040
Speaker 1: I'm not a lawyer, but I've been around enough fucking lawyers.

674
00:37:12,040 --> 00:37:15,360
Speaker 1: I've been through this process. Restitution's bullshit, and shoplifting is

675
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:18,279
Speaker 1: already out of control. This just sends the message, Yeah,

676
00:37:18,320 --> 00:37:20,000
Speaker 1: if you get caught, you're gonna get off lights. So

677
00:37:20,080 --> 00:37:23,680
Speaker 1: continue as you were. Yeah, no big deal in talking

678
00:37:23,719 --> 00:37:28,319
Speaker 1: to Sergeant Moraki and talking to this lost prevention guy

679
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 1: on the front lines. He hooked me up with who

680
00:37:30,280 --> 00:37:33,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna hear in the next episode, incredible stories. The

681
00:37:33,600 --> 00:37:38,000
Speaker 1: real victims of Michelle Mack are you and me and

682
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:40,759
Speaker 1: everyone who buys things at stores. Because here's the deal,

683
00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:46,759
Speaker 1: Walmart target Sephora. They're not going to tell their shareholders, Hey,

684
00:37:47,360 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 1: we lost a couple hundred million this year to retail theft.

685
00:37:50,960 --> 00:37:52,600
Speaker 1: So you know we'll get them next year. Sorry, we

686
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:54,759
Speaker 1: don't have a profit. No, no, no, they're just gonna

687
00:37:54,840 --> 00:37:58,440
Speaker 1: jack the prices up of everything. They're still making gazillions

688
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:01,760
Speaker 1: in profit, and you know, health AFT is huge. Last

689
00:38:01,840 --> 00:38:05,040
Speaker 1: year alone, stores lost more than one hundred and twenty.

690
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:07,320
Speaker 6: Billion dollars to that's so much money.

691
00:38:07,560 --> 00:38:09,719
Speaker 1: But they're not The stores aren't really losing anything. They're

692
00:38:09,760 --> 00:38:12,120
Speaker 1: just raising the raising the prices, and you and I

693
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,200
Speaker 1: are paying through the nose for a things for sure't

694
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: cost that much. And keep in mind Michelle Mack and

695
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,520
Speaker 1: her husband Kenneth made at least eight million dollars running

696
00:38:21,520 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 1: their shoplifting ring over a span of more than ten years.

697
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,040
Speaker 1: But like Icarus, they flew too close to the sun

698
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:31,080
Speaker 1: and it all fell apart.

699
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,080
Speaker 10: You know, it just seems like the more successful you get,

700
00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:38,000
Speaker 10: the more eyes you have on you. You do wrong

701
00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,200
Speaker 10: long enough, you know attention is going to come your

702
00:38:41,239 --> 00:38:42,160
Speaker 10: way one way or another.

703
00:38:42,200 --> 00:38:54,600
Speaker 1: It comes back to you for sure. Next time on

704
00:38:54,840 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 1: Queen of the Con, I sit down with a veteran

705
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,600
Speaker 1: loss prevention officer and undercover age of sorts that stores

706
00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,759
Speaker 1: hire to cat shoplifters red handed, And my god, this

707
00:39:05,840 --> 00:39:09,640
Speaker 1: guy's broken up some crazy shoplifting shenanigans in his time.

708
00:39:10,080 --> 00:39:13,880
Speaker 1: At one point he even worked for Universal Studios. Universal

709
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:16,560
Speaker 1: Studios has lost prevention. Yes, we deal with a lot

710
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:25,120
Speaker 1: of like chomosa most's so it almost sounds like like

711
00:39:25,160 --> 00:39:28,320
Speaker 1: something into a fast food restaurant. I'll take two chomos

712
00:39:28,600 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 1: hot sauce on the side.

713
00:39:30,000 --> 00:39:32,920
Speaker 6: Yeah. Cha molesters, yes, pickpockets and.

714
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:39,240
Speaker 1: How do you spot a shaw moluster. If you're enjoying

715
00:39:39,320 --> 00:39:42,280
Speaker 1: Queen of the Con, tell someone click that share button

716
00:39:42,320 --> 00:39:44,759
Speaker 1: and send this podcast to anyone you think might be

717
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:47,839
Speaker 1: into it. Also, if you can leave us a five

718
00:39:47,920 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 1: star review, reviews really help other listeners find us. Queen

719
00:39:58,080 --> 00:40:00,880
Speaker 1: of the Con The California Girls is a production of

720
00:40:01,040 --> 00:40:06,320
Speaker 1: AYR Media and iHeartMedia, hosted by me Jonathan Walton. Executive

721
00:40:06,360 --> 00:40:11,320
Speaker 1: producers Jonathan Walton for Jonathan Walton Productions and Elisa Rosen

722
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:18,240
Speaker 1: for AYR Media. Consulting producer Evan Goldstein. Written by Jonathan Walton,

723
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,400
Speaker 1: Sound design by Zack Hirsch, Edited and mixed by Zack Hirsch,

724
00:40:24,160 --> 00:40:30,360
Speaker 1: Audio engineer Justin Longerbean, Mastered by Justin Longerbean. Legal counsel

725
00:40:30,480 --> 00:40:36,880
Speaker 1: for AYR Media, Johnny Douglas executive producer for iHeartMedia, Maya Howard.

726
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:39,360
Speaker 1: Voice acting by Tracy Lee,