WEBVTT - Bloomberg Businessweek: Black Friday Special 0:00:02.920 --> 0:00:10.719 Bloomberg Audio Studios, Podcasts, radio news. This is Bloomberg business 0:00:10.720 --> 0:00:13.960 Week inside from the reporters and editors who bring you 0:00:14.000 --> 0:00:18.200 America's most trusted business magazine, plus gloom O Business Finance 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.280 and tech news. The Bloomberg Business Week Podcast with Carol 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.800 Messer and Tim Stenebeck from Bloomberg Radio. 0:00:28.840 --> 0:00:31.720 Black Friday is certainly underway. We got a great live 0:00:31.760 --> 0:00:35.720 blog on the Bloomberg terminal that's following reporters who are 0:00:35.760 --> 0:00:39.120 all over the country. Check it out because they're dispatched 0:00:39.520 --> 0:00:42.320 checking out the crowds, seeing what people are buying. Vonnie, 0:00:42.360 --> 0:00:45.120 a lot of people apparently in line to get the 0:00:45.120 --> 0:00:46.480 Taylor Swift book at Target. 0:00:46.600 --> 0:00:47.239 Did you hear about this? 0:00:47.280 --> 0:00:49.600 I'm loving this blog because we're just talking to people 0:00:49.640 --> 0:00:52.360 all over the huntry of these Moles of Paradise and 0:00:52.440 --> 0:00:55.200 Moles of America and all these different moles, and it's 0:00:55.240 --> 0:00:58.760 really fascinating. And yes, Taylor Swift merchandise is some of 0:00:58.800 --> 0:00:59.520 the best selling. 0:01:00.040 --> 0:01:00.560 I saw it today. 0:01:00.600 --> 0:01:03.040 I was down at Macy's and I saw massive crowds 0:01:03.160 --> 0:01:05.479 coming in by ten o'clock, and I think the weather 0:01:05.560 --> 0:01:07.480 had a lot to do with it. Tim So at 0:01:07.480 --> 0:01:09.360 six o'clock there weren't too many people around. It was 0:01:09.360 --> 0:01:12.520 twenty nine degrees six am six am when Macy's opened 0:01:12.560 --> 0:01:14.760 in Herald Square, but by ten am it was a 0:01:14.800 --> 0:01:16.720 little bit warmer, and you know, there was no rain. 0:01:16.840 --> 0:01:19.039 Everyone had been stuck indoors on Thanksgiving because it was 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.200 so much rain in the Tristate area. At least people 0:01:21.240 --> 0:01:23.760 were out. They wanted to see what else, What are 0:01:23.760 --> 0:01:24.920 the discounts, what's available? 0:01:25.000 --> 0:01:26.759 What did it seem like there were discounts. 0:01:26.840 --> 0:01:29.520 It seemed like there were massive amounts of discounts. Everything 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:31.600 was forty percent off or everything was fifty percent off. 0:01:31.640 --> 0:01:33.399 But I have to say one comment from our. 0:01:33.360 --> 0:01:34.720 Life blog really did strike me. 0:01:35.319 --> 0:01:37.839 This man that we spoke to, Jonathan Overton from DC, said, 0:01:37.920 --> 0:01:39.880 I don't really know what sales are going on, to 0:01:39.920 --> 0:01:42.080 be honest, there's not really a lot of signage. 0:01:42.120 --> 0:01:43.800 No one's really telling you what's happening. 0:01:43.920 --> 0:01:45.559 And I did feel a little bit like that because 0:01:45.560 --> 0:01:47.720 it was a bunch of merchandise and then you know 0:01:47.960 --> 0:01:50.440 at the side assigned with forty percent off and some 0:01:50.480 --> 0:01:53.680 small writing underneath, and it wasn't quite clear whether this 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:56.000 was forty percent off the sale price or the full price, 0:01:56.120 --> 0:01:58.320 or you know, sort of a little bit of a 0:01:58.360 --> 0:01:58.880 grab bag. 0:01:58.920 --> 0:02:00.520 You get to the counter and you've out what you're 0:02:00.520 --> 0:02:00.920 going to own. 0:02:01.000 --> 0:02:03.040 Okay, so we got the great anecdotes from thirty fourth 0:02:03.040 --> 0:02:04.840 Street where you were at May season, from all over 0:02:04.880 --> 0:02:07.200 the country over on the live blog. We also want 0:02:07.240 --> 0:02:09.520 to get an idea for what data folks are seeing 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:11.960 out there. For that, let's bring in Julie van Uhlin. 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:16.120 She's Rakutin chief rewards, chief revenue officer. It's a cash 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:19.359 back shopping platform. It's a subsidiary of the Internet Services 0:02:19.400 --> 0:02:20.800 giant Racketin Group. 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:22.760 Good to have you with us, Julie. 0:02:22.800 --> 0:02:25.080 Just give people an idea of the insight that you 0:02:25.200 --> 0:02:29.440 have with this tool, because you know, if you're shopping online, 0:02:29.440 --> 0:02:31.520 you know about how you can how you can use 0:02:31.560 --> 0:02:33.320 this tool. But just give people some insight into the 0:02:33.360 --> 0:02:35.120 real time data that you get over at Racketin. 0:02:36.080 --> 0:02:37.919 Yeah, I'm happy to do that, and thanks for having 0:02:37.960 --> 0:02:43.000 me on this glorious Black Friday. Racketin is a massive 0:02:43.200 --> 0:02:46.640 shopping platform with the best rewards out there, especially this 0:02:46.720 --> 0:02:48.800 time of year, but all year round, where we have 0:02:49.320 --> 0:02:53.240 about five thousand brands who are working with us in 0:02:53.360 --> 0:02:57.440 order to attract the best shopping possible by offering rewards 0:02:57.480 --> 0:03:00.200 by way of cash back that are stackable on top 0:03:00.480 --> 0:03:03.360 of the amazing deals and promotions that are happening during 0:03:03.720 --> 0:03:05.480 big promotional periods like this. 0:03:05.639 --> 0:03:08.560 It's entirely free for consumers to join. 0:03:08.639 --> 0:03:11.840 We have about seventeen million consumers today and growing. 0:03:12.480 --> 0:03:15.840 And where are these consumers July because obviously you know, 0:03:16.080 --> 0:03:19.600 we're looking today, particularly at the US consumer, but Rocketon 0:03:19.720 --> 0:03:23.119 would have tentacles around the world, right we do. 0:03:23.200 --> 0:03:26.040 However, the business that we're discussing today and the data 0:03:26.080 --> 0:03:27.919 that the rich data that we'll talk about in terms 0:03:28.000 --> 0:03:30.520 of what we're seeing from a consumer behavior standpoint, is 0:03:30.560 --> 0:03:33.000 really a North American business racketin rewards. 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:37.840 So you say seventeen million consumers sign up and roughly 0:03:37.880 --> 0:03:40.720 on average, you know, in a year, what kind of 0:03:40.760 --> 0:03:42.840 reward would a consumer expect to get. 0:03:44.160 --> 0:03:47.200 Oh, it's entirely dependent on the shopper. Right. 0:03:47.240 --> 0:03:52.080 It's a rewards platform that rewards a consumer for frequency 0:03:52.520 --> 0:03:54.160 and for average order value. 0:03:54.200 --> 0:03:56.360 Right. So the more you buy, the more. 0:03:56.280 --> 0:03:58.520 Likelihood it is that the brands that you love the 0:03:58.520 --> 0:04:00.560 most are going to be paying at ten to that 0:04:00.680 --> 0:04:03.360 and giving you more rewards to come back more frequently. 0:04:03.440 --> 0:04:07.800 So it really is engendering loyalty and frequency, and that's 0:04:08.240 --> 0:04:11.480 how the brands and retailers view us differently than what 0:04:11.560 --> 0:04:13.920 they can do on their own with their own base 0:04:13.960 --> 0:04:14.600 of shoppers. 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:17.000 So we're already starting, you know, we're in the midst 0:04:17.040 --> 0:04:20.000 of the holiday shopping season, Julian, We're already starting, even 0:04:20.040 --> 0:04:23.400 in recent months to get some of those consultant reports 0:04:23.440 --> 0:04:25.880 out with how much they think consumers are going to spend. 0:04:26.200 --> 0:04:28.679 We talked about a Deloitte report out earlier this week 0:04:28.760 --> 0:04:32.320 that said that over the holiday period and especially today 0:04:32.360 --> 0:04:37.400 between today and Cyber Monday, consumers are expected to spend 0:04:37.440 --> 0:04:40.360 fifteen percent more than they spent last year six hundred 0:04:40.360 --> 0:04:43.680 and fifty dollars, So a new record there. What are 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:45.680 you projecting over at Rakutin. 0:04:47.400 --> 0:04:49.400 It's been a really interesting year so far. 0:04:49.600 --> 0:04:52.599 I think that we are also projecting what would be 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:57.560 a record year both online and also growing in store sales. 0:04:57.880 --> 0:04:59.400 But I think that a lot of the data that 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:01.719 we've been showed going up until now over the past 0:05:01.760 --> 0:05:05.200 couple of weeks, as well as yesterday and even this morning, 0:05:05.680 --> 0:05:08.200 speaks to a couple of really interesting trends that are 0:05:08.200 --> 0:05:11.240 specific to this year. The first one I would say 0:05:11.320 --> 0:05:16.080 is around consumer intent. That we see consumers browsing less 0:05:16.360 --> 0:05:19.400 but shopping more. So we see on our platform sales 0:05:19.440 --> 0:05:22.840 are up, average order value is up, but browsing is 0:05:22.880 --> 0:05:25.400 a little lower. So I think that that speaks to 0:05:25.520 --> 0:05:31.400 perhaps the very intelligent consumer doing their research, making their list, 0:05:31.640 --> 0:05:35.400 checking it twice, and making sure that they are ready 0:05:35.480 --> 0:05:38.960 to pull the trigger when they see the best possible value, 0:05:39.000 --> 0:05:42.920 whether that value is by way of promotional discounts, cash back, 0:05:43.040 --> 0:05:46.800 free shipping, whatever it is, they're ready to go. And 0:05:47.000 --> 0:05:49.159 in tandem with that, I think it's also been a 0:05:49.240 --> 0:05:52.760 very by now moment since the week after the election, 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:55.240 which is to say that we saw a fifty seven 0:05:55.360 --> 0:05:59.440 percent increase in shopping the week after the election versus 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:03.320 the week and that has continued where there's been a 0:06:03.400 --> 0:06:07.159 record amount of early shopping happening. So I think that 0:06:07.360 --> 0:06:12.560 again speaks to the consumer sentiment, perhaps the turbulence from 0:06:12.560 --> 0:06:15.760 an economic standpoint, and then wanting to ensure that they 0:06:15.880 --> 0:06:19.159 get in now when they feel comfortable that they've gotten 0:06:19.160 --> 0:06:21.120 the offer that's good enough for them. 0:06:22.000 --> 0:06:24.440 Julie, you say you have a mound of rich data, 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.520 and I'm just curious who is the Rocket and Rewards 0:06:28.080 --> 0:06:30.720 sign or opers. So there's so many rewards programs out 0:06:30.760 --> 0:06:33.280 there now, and you know, no matter where are you shop, 0:06:33.279 --> 0:06:35.400 it seems like you're invited to be part of the 0:06:35.440 --> 0:06:40.839 loyalty program. What would the niche sort of offering of 0:06:40.920 --> 0:06:43.280 Rocket and Rewards be that would make me want to 0:06:43.320 --> 0:06:45.479 sign up for yet another program? 0:06:46.080 --> 0:06:48.560 I think the really interesting part about what we do 0:06:48.720 --> 0:06:51.719 is that it runs the gamut of categories, So we 0:06:51.839 --> 0:06:57.760 aren't even just focused on traditional retail categories. We yes 0:06:57.880 --> 0:07:02.000 certainly have the apparel, health and beauty categories that folks 0:07:02.040 --> 0:07:05.560 are so interested in buying this time of year, consumer electronics, 0:07:05.839 --> 0:07:12.760 but also verticals like travel, like consumer banking and financial products. 0:07:13.000 --> 0:07:15.840 So given the fact that it's a one stop shop 0:07:16.120 --> 0:07:20.120 for being able to kind of weigh the value of 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.400 what brands are willing to deliver across categories, it's particularly 0:07:25.160 --> 0:07:28.960 fascinating to consumers in a way that spans the gamut 0:07:29.000 --> 0:07:33.000 that a singular rewards platform might not be able to do. 0:07:33.320 --> 0:07:36.760 Julie, what do you get out of the Rakertin rewards 0:07:36.760 --> 0:07:39.320 program in the sense as a company, you know you 0:07:39.400 --> 0:07:42.240 have to entice people to use it. Do you get 0:07:42.240 --> 0:07:46.760 paid by the retailer, or is the data so powerful 0:07:47.000 --> 0:07:48.560 that you can then make money selling it. 0:07:49.560 --> 0:07:52.920 That's a great question, and it's a very simple model. 0:07:53.120 --> 0:07:56.960 We are highly protective of consumer data and we are 0:07:57.000 --> 0:07:59.720 in no way, shape or form interested in using it 0:07:59.760 --> 0:08:05.240 from monetization. The model is entirely an advertising model, whereby 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:08.440 all of the brands and retailers with whom we work 0:08:08.760 --> 0:08:11.000 see our platform as a way to get access to 0:08:11.080 --> 0:08:14.520 shoppers who will shop more frequently and buy more when 0:08:14.560 --> 0:08:18.040 they get that cash back, which is effectively the permission 0:08:18.120 --> 0:08:21.200 to buy that they need, and when they give us 0:08:21.200 --> 0:08:24.880 those advertising dollars, just like any media platform that would 0:08:24.920 --> 0:08:28.040 get advertising dollars, we simply pass about half of those 0:08:28.080 --> 0:08:31.240 dollars back to the shopper in the form of cash back. 0:08:32.040 --> 0:08:34.760 So we were talking earlier about the you know, the 0:08:34.800 --> 0:08:38.760 amount that somebody spends then dictating. 0:08:38.280 --> 0:08:39.720 How much they get back in rewards. 0:08:39.760 --> 0:08:42.920 But you must have an average figure or even a 0:08:43.000 --> 0:08:46.959 mean figure for the rocket and rewards devote. 0:08:47.000 --> 0:08:50.800 Hey, let's say. 0:08:50.080 --> 0:08:54.600 It's a very tough one, I'm afraid, but certainly what 0:08:54.720 --> 0:08:57.120 I think it speaks to is the fact that it 0:08:57.920 --> 0:09:00.000 varies year by year, in person by person. 0:09:01.000 --> 0:09:02.240 I did want to mention. 0:09:02.360 --> 0:09:04.840 One more trend to you, guys, which is super interesting 0:09:04.880 --> 0:09:09.080 this year, which is that we're seeing, still to this moment, 0:09:09.160 --> 0:09:12.720 as we're monitoring real time data, that there's this fascinating 0:09:12.760 --> 0:09:17.280 trend happening where it's a first me, then you season 0:09:18.040 --> 0:09:20.520 where and by that I mean shoppers seem to be 0:09:20.600 --> 0:09:26.280 shopping categories that are much less traditional giftable categories. They're 0:09:26.720 --> 0:09:31.800 very interested in areas like pet care, financial services, health 0:09:31.840 --> 0:09:36.640 and wellness, particularly CBS Walgreens. 0:09:36.679 --> 0:09:37.920 So what we see is. 0:09:37.880 --> 0:09:41.480 People out there again, probably because of concerns around potential 0:09:41.679 --> 0:09:45.120 economic trends. They're saying to themselves, I need to get 0:09:45.679 --> 0:09:48.640 myself shored up with these deals and my family shored 0:09:48.720 --> 0:09:51.400 up first before I move ahead to think about gifting. 0:09:52.120 --> 0:09:55.439 We do predict that that's likely to change shift over 0:09:55.480 --> 0:09:58.200 a little bit later today, especially as we go into 0:09:58.280 --> 0:10:01.440 the weekend in Cyber Monday, but it's a particularly interesting 0:10:01.480 --> 0:10:05.480 trend of consumers interested in using this moment a very 0:10:05.559 --> 0:10:11.040 high promotional free shipping, cash back stackability to do what's 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:12.840 right for them and their family first. 0:10:13.360 --> 0:10:13.680 Julie. 0:10:13.679 --> 0:10:16.800 One thing we talk about a lot is what retailers 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.040 who are traditional brick and mortar retailers have to do 0:10:19.480 --> 0:10:21.880 to get consumers in the door, given that it's so 0:10:22.000 --> 0:10:25.080 easy to buy so much of this stuff online. What's 0:10:25.120 --> 0:10:26.960 the message that you have based on the data that 0:10:27.040 --> 0:10:30.720 you see what consumers are doing online to retailers who 0:10:30.760 --> 0:10:32.679 are trying to figure out this omnichannel approach. 0:10:34.120 --> 0:10:35.440 It's a great question. 0:10:36.000 --> 0:10:40.200 Part of our business is an in store capability whereby 0:10:40.320 --> 0:10:43.400 when a consumer links their credit card on our site, 0:10:44.000 --> 0:10:46.800 then you're able to achieve the same level of cash 0:10:46.840 --> 0:10:49.440 back that you might get online going in store when 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:52.440 you use that credit card, and it just automatically happens. 0:10:52.840 --> 0:10:56.840 And that part of our business has grown dramatically year 0:10:56.920 --> 0:11:00.240 over year. And to answer your question, I think the 0:11:00.280 --> 0:11:03.840 reality is that we are dealing with a very value 0:11:03.920 --> 0:11:11.559 seeking consumer who isn't just content with discounts and prices 0:11:11.640 --> 0:11:14.240 that a brick and mortar might be able to offer, 0:11:14.400 --> 0:11:16.880 even during a time like Black Friday. 0:11:17.200 --> 0:11:19.520 They need to know that they're getting more. 0:11:20.000 --> 0:11:24.280 So a lever like cash back enables these retailers to 0:11:24.400 --> 0:11:28.600 offer something more that gives the consumer a permission to buy. 0:11:29.360 --> 0:11:32.720 What I will also say about retailers and brands is 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:36.800 that there is certainly and this is more just holistically 0:11:36.800 --> 0:11:40.160 as an omni channel event is that there is a 0:11:40.200 --> 0:11:45.120 democratization around where brands can be purchased by consumers. And 0:11:45.160 --> 0:11:48.840 by that I mean retailers are in a way starting 0:11:48.880 --> 0:11:52.319 to compete with the direct to consumer brands themselves that 0:11:52.360 --> 0:11:55.599 they sell in their stores, because those brands may be 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:59.640 able to offer higher cash back, but they may have 0:11:59.679 --> 0:12:02.520 a level to do things like free shipping with the 0:12:02.600 --> 0:12:05.520 larger infrastructure that they have. So it really is about 0:12:05.720 --> 0:12:09.079 figuring out what levers do you have and using. 0:12:08.840 --> 0:12:11.600 Them all right, Julie, let's leave it there. It's Julie 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:15.120 van ullin Rakatin Rewards, Chief revenue Officer joining us on 0:12:15.160 --> 0:12:17.440 this Black Friday. Julie, thanks so much for taking the time. 0:12:17.480 --> 0:12:20.120 Always good to check in with you. 0:12:19.120 --> 0:12:23.679 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Catch us 0:12:23.720 --> 0:12:26.959 live weekday afternoons from two to five pm. Easter Listen 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.160 on Apple, car Play and and Broun Auto with a 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:34.359 Bloomberg Business act or watch us live on YouTube. 0:12:36.280 --> 0:12:39.360 President elect Donald Trump had dinner with Meta CEO Mark 0:12:39.440 --> 0:12:42.880 Zuckerberg at his mar A Lago estate on Wednesday. Zuckerberg 0:12:42.920 --> 0:12:44.840 meeting with Trump and members of his team as the 0:12:44.840 --> 0:12:47.040 President elect prepares to return. 0:12:46.760 --> 0:12:48.400 To the White House in just fifty two days. 0:12:48.400 --> 0:12:51.400 Now for more, we're joined by Bloomberg's Kurt Wagner. 0:12:51.960 --> 0:12:54.400 Kurt, do you know anything about the conversation. 0:12:54.640 --> 0:12:58.120 I know, representatives for Zuckerberg did let out a few 0:12:58.160 --> 0:13:00.480 little comments they did. 0:13:00.480 --> 0:13:01.400 They were very vague. 0:13:01.440 --> 0:13:03.440 They said, you know that it was an important time 0:13:03.440 --> 0:13:06.560 for innovation, which is one of the things that they 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:08.920 want to talk about. I think we can extrapolate from 0:13:08.920 --> 0:13:11.240 that a little bit to assume that they probably touched 0:13:11.280 --> 0:13:14.240 on AI, because this is something that's been a key 0:13:14.280 --> 0:13:17.120 priority for Meta over the past year, year and a half. 0:13:17.280 --> 0:13:20.840 They're investing very, very aggressively in all types of AI 0:13:21.679 --> 0:13:24.319 products and features, and as you can imagine, there's a 0:13:24.360 --> 0:13:27.160 lot of concern about what the incoming administration might do 0:13:27.200 --> 0:13:29.680 in terms of regulation with AI. So I do think, 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.200 you know, that hint about innovation, to me is a 0:13:33.240 --> 0:13:35.920 sign that AI was probably at least one of the 0:13:36.040 --> 0:13:37.959 many topics of conversation at that dinner. 0:13:38.880 --> 0:13:41.400 Maybe I'm a cynic, but my takeaway, Kurt, and you 0:13:41.440 --> 0:13:43.640 know this better than I to, was not that at all. 0:13:43.720 --> 0:13:46.760 I mean, my first reaction was, like Mark Zuckerberg's got 0:13:46.800 --> 0:13:49.360 to get on the Trump administration's good side, given what 0:13:49.400 --> 0:13:54.120 we've heard on the campaign trail. Now that Elon Musk 0:13:55.120 --> 0:13:58.040 is their NonStop, and we know that Elon doesn't have 0:13:58.040 --> 0:14:00.719 a great relationship with Mark Zuckerberg. These guys are like nemeses. 0:14:01.160 --> 0:14:02.520 I mean, am I too cynical here? 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:03.800 No? 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:06.280 I definitely feel like there's a little bit of damage 0:14:06.280 --> 0:14:09.200 control being done here, right, And it's not just from 0:14:09.240 --> 0:14:12.040 the last couple months. I mean, remember two years ago, 0:14:12.280 --> 0:14:14.160 or I guess more than two years ago. At this point, 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:19.040 Donald Trump was suspended from Facebook and Instagram for two years, right, 0:14:19.320 --> 0:14:21.760 and that created a huge issue since then. When he 0:14:21.800 --> 0:14:24.080 was on the campaign trail, he talked about, you know, 0:14:24.640 --> 0:14:27.200 wanting to keep TikTok around simply because he knew if 0:14:27.200 --> 0:14:30.120 TikTok was gone it would help Facebook. He even insinuated 0:14:30.320 --> 0:14:32.320 that he might want to try to put Mark Zuckerberg 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:32.880 in jail. 0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:33.280 Right. 0:14:33.360 --> 0:14:34.760 That was just a few months ago. 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:37.880 And so we've seen Mark Zuckerberg sort of in the 0:14:37.960 --> 0:14:41.920 last couple months since this summer, really you know, say 0:14:41.920 --> 0:14:45.360 flattering things about Donald Trump. He called the president elect 0:14:45.400 --> 0:14:47.480 before he was elected back in the fall. Now he's 0:14:47.480 --> 0:14:49.600 showing up at mar A Lago for dinner. I think 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.800 your instinct is pretty spot on, which is that this 0:14:51.880 --> 0:14:55.240 has been a tumultuous relationship for several years now, and 0:14:55.440 --> 0:14:58.120 it's certainly in Mark Zuckerberg's best interest to make sure 0:14:58.120 --> 0:15:01.360 that Donald Trump at the very least things him as neutral, right, 0:15:01.480 --> 0:15:04.760 so that he's not coming after him and attacking his businesses. 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:05.520 For sure. 0:15:05.600 --> 0:15:08.720 And he did make a comment after the assassination attempt, 0:15:08.720 --> 0:15:10.720 the first one saying seeing Donald Trump get up after 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:12.160 getting shot on the face and Pump's fist in the 0:15:12.160 --> 0:15:13.800 air with the American flag is one of the most 0:15:13.840 --> 0:15:16.080 badass things I've ever seen in my life. So he 0:15:16.160 --> 0:15:19.760 has been quite you know, complimentary of the president elect. 0:15:20.160 --> 0:15:22.800 What could the president elect do though, and just in 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.560 terms of the company, not Zuckerberg personally. You know, you 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:27.640 can blacklist him from mar A Lago. He can do 0:15:27.640 --> 0:15:30.320 whatever he wants to Zuckerberg personally, but he would need 0:15:30.360 --> 0:15:32.920 someone like Alena Khnon board to actually hurt the company, 0:15:32.920 --> 0:15:33.040 you know. 0:15:34.240 --> 0:15:36.560 I think, well, it sort of depends on what you 0:15:36.720 --> 0:15:38.640 described by hert or what you mean by her right. 0:15:38.680 --> 0:15:41.720 I think what we saw after the twenty sixteen election 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:45.120 was that Facebook really got bogged down with you know, 0:15:45.160 --> 0:15:48.280 all of these claims of Russian interference and Mark Zuckerberg 0:15:48.360 --> 0:15:51.840 being summoned to d C every year to answer these questions. 0:15:51.880 --> 0:15:53.480 It's just a lot of distractions, right. 0:15:53.520 --> 0:15:56.320 I feel like that's the kind of world that Donald 0:15:56.320 --> 0:15:58.280 Trump and Congress could create for Mark Zuckerberg. 0:15:58.320 --> 0:16:01.000 They could just make his life much less enjoyable. 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:04.040 Now, on top of that, as you guys mentioned, Elon 0:16:04.160 --> 0:16:06.080 Musk is in the picture right, and Elon and Mark 0:16:06.120 --> 0:16:07.680 Zuckerberg are not friends. 0:16:08.160 --> 0:16:10.160 They have a very healthy rivalry. 0:16:10.480 --> 0:16:13.040 And so you know, now you have the president's sort 0:16:13.080 --> 0:16:17.440 of top advisor who's an anti Facebook guy. And so 0:16:17.640 --> 0:16:20.680 I do think that there's this, you know, potential threat 0:16:21.080 --> 0:16:24.160 that the administration could simply make Mark Zuckerberg's path these 0:16:24.200 --> 0:16:26.840 next four years very difficult if they want to. And 0:16:26.880 --> 0:16:29.880 so that's again why you see him showing up to 0:16:29.880 --> 0:16:31.479 have dinner the night before Thanksgiving. 0:16:32.000 --> 0:16:32.200 Kurt. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.600 There's this idea, and we saw this actually play out 0:16:34.680 --> 0:16:37.720 a few months ago in the vice presidential candidate debate 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.000 with JD Vance talking about censorship on social media platforms 0:16:42.000 --> 0:16:45.360 and this idea of this anti conservative bias. And you know, 0:16:45.400 --> 0:16:47.680 I haven't seen these numbers in a while. But what 0:16:48.080 --> 0:16:50.720 we have tended to see is that actually Facebook as 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:53.400 a social platform is really good to conservatives in terms 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:56.840 of the most prominent voices. You know, they get a 0:16:56.840 --> 0:17:00.160 lot of their traffic coming from the social platform. Is 0:17:00.160 --> 0:17:03.400 there any credence to the idea that there is anti 0:17:03.400 --> 0:17:06.320 conservative bias on some of these social platforms that that 0:17:06.440 --> 0:17:07.400 Zuck and company run. 0:17:08.840 --> 0:17:10.760 I mean, gosh, Tim, We've been talking about this for 0:17:11.119 --> 0:17:13.440 years at this point, right, and I feel like it's 0:17:13.480 --> 0:17:17.560 always sort of been a perceived bias, right. I think 0:17:17.600 --> 0:17:20.640 if you no one's really come out and shown real 0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:23.359 hard figures to say like, hey, look, the companies are 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.159 intentionally down ranking someone simply because they are conservative or 0:17:28.200 --> 0:17:31.080 simply because they are liberal. What I find very interesting 0:17:31.680 --> 0:17:34.959 is that ever since Elon Musk took over X, certainly 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.119 these past six months, he has been the most pro 0:17:38.320 --> 0:17:41.359 you know, Trump owner of any CEO or excuse we have, 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:44.119 any social platform we've ever seen. And yet there have 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:48.000 been no concerns about that, Right, There's been no concerns 0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:50.399 on the other side that hey, what about you know, 0:17:50.480 --> 0:17:55.600 you're suppressing left leaning voices or you're suppressing you know, democrats, right, 0:17:55.840 --> 0:17:57.760 and so I just find it very interesting that for 0:17:57.960 --> 0:18:00.480 years we heard about this anti conservative bias when there 0:18:00.560 --> 0:18:04.119 was a perceived attack, and now when we have a 0:18:04.200 --> 0:18:07.840 CEO and owner who's very blatant and openly picking a 0:18:07.880 --> 0:18:09.919 side at political side, no one seems to have an 0:18:09.920 --> 0:18:13.160 issue with that, right, So it is a very interesting dynamic. 0:18:13.920 --> 0:18:16.280 I don't know, this narrative has sort of died down 0:18:16.320 --> 0:18:18.439 a little bit on the Facebook front, but now that 0:18:18.440 --> 0:18:20.320 Trump is back in office, I wouldn't be shocked if 0:18:20.520 --> 0:18:22.080 we start to hear this thing come up again. 0:18:22.640 --> 0:18:26.880 Just briefly, cards the representatives for Zuckerberg said that the 0:18:26.920 --> 0:18:29.960 conversation was taking place at a crucial time for US innovation. 0:18:30.200 --> 0:18:32.439 I'm just curious, is there any chance that the two 0:18:32.480 --> 0:18:35.240 would have spoken about bydowns and what Donald Trump should 0:18:35.240 --> 0:18:36.160 do about TikTok. 0:18:37.119 --> 0:18:40.880 I mean, I'd be speculating, but it seems very logical 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:43.480 that would be top of mind that date. The January 0:18:43.520 --> 0:18:46.040 date for the potential ban of TikTok is just a 0:18:46.040 --> 0:18:49.320 few months away. Donald Trump talked about it on the 0:18:49.359 --> 0:18:53.120 campaign trail. We obviously know it matters a lot to meta, right. 0:18:53.160 --> 0:18:55.800 I think if TikTok is out of the Picture Meta 0:18:55.920 --> 0:18:58.480 stands to benefit more than any other company out there, 0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:02.040 so I do have have to imagine that that came up. 0:19:02.160 --> 0:19:04.480 It's probably a little bit of a tricky situation because 0:19:04.480 --> 0:19:07.560 Mark Zuckerberg has to sit here and probably he can't 0:19:07.600 --> 0:19:10.800 say exactly what's maybe on his mind right for anti 0:19:10.840 --> 0:19:14.240 competitive reasons. But I again, the timing is such that 0:19:14.280 --> 0:19:16.040 it's hard to imagine it wouldn't have at least been 0:19:16.040 --> 0:19:16.439 brought up. 0:19:16.640 --> 0:19:18.639 Kurt, Thank you so much for following all of this 0:19:18.680 --> 0:19:20.800 so closely. For us, that is Kurt Wagner, and we 0:19:20.840 --> 0:19:22.240 will be talking to him again no doubt. 0:19:23.640 --> 0:19:27.480 You're listening to the Bloomberg Business Week podcast. Listen live 0:19:27.600 --> 0:19:30.480 each weekday starting a two pm Eastern on Apple car 0:19:30.520 --> 0:19:33.480 Play and Android Auto with the Bloomberg Business app. You 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:36.800 can also listen live on Amazon Alexa from our flagship 0:19:36.840 --> 0:19:42.400 New York station Just Say Alexa playing Bloomberg eleven thirty ceditle. 0:19:42.119 --> 0:19:45.840 Officials rejecting the busiest Thanksgiving travel season yet still going 0:19:45.840 --> 0:19:47.600 to see some final numbers in the coming days, but 0:19:47.640 --> 0:19:49.280 check this out. In the past two days alone, the 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:52.360 TSA has screened more than four point two million passengers. 0:19:52.760 --> 0:19:54.920 Join us now to share with us what travel trends 0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:58.200 he's seeing as the season kicks off. Is Clint Henderson, 0:19:58.320 --> 0:20:01.080 the Points Guy, Managing editor, Clint, I'm always good to 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.240 see you. Have things gone off without a hitch so. 0:20:04.240 --> 0:20:07.480 Far, you know, remarkably, I was a little nervous about 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:10.120 yesterday because we had all those storms across the country. 0:20:10.320 --> 0:20:13.119