1
00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:30,836
Speaker 1: Pushkin. If you've sung along to a power ballad in

2
00:00:30,836 --> 00:00:34,396
Speaker 1: the last thirty years, chancers are, you're already intimately familiar

3
00:00:34,436 --> 00:00:38,276
Speaker 1: with Diane Warren's songs. Some of her biggest hits include shares,

4
00:00:38,316 --> 00:00:41,076
Speaker 1: if I Could Turn Back Time, Selene Dion's Because You

5
00:00:41,156 --> 00:00:44,356
Speaker 1: Loved Me, and Aerosmith's I Don't want to miss at You,

6
00:00:45,236 --> 00:00:51,156
Speaker 1: like your mayor stool, like the handicuffs, you go the fool,

7
00:00:51,476 --> 00:00:56,516
Speaker 1: and I'm no wage shit, I'm nowhere. Over the span

8
00:00:56,596 --> 00:00:59,556
Speaker 1: of her thirty five year career, Diane Warren has penned

9
00:00:59,636 --> 00:01:03,556
Speaker 1: hits for hip hop, country, R and B an adult

10
00:01:03,596 --> 00:01:08,316
Speaker 1: contemporary artists. In late August, she finally released her own alley,

11
00:01:08,516 --> 00:01:11,956
Speaker 1: The Caves Sessions Volume one, where she wrote songs for

12
00:01:12,116 --> 00:01:16,676
Speaker 1: artists like Tydalla Sign, Darius Rucker, and John Legends. The

13
00:01:16,796 --> 00:01:21,156
Speaker 1: genre spanning project is modeled after DJ compilation Aalogus and

14
00:01:21,276 --> 00:01:25,756
Speaker 1: brilliantly shows off Warren's incredible range as a writer. On

15
00:01:25,836 --> 00:01:29,356
Speaker 1: today's episode, Rick Rubin talks to Diane Warren about how

16
00:01:29,396 --> 00:01:31,676
Speaker 1: she decided to become a songwriter when she was just

17
00:01:31,796 --> 00:01:35,076
Speaker 1: eleven years old, and how her parents built a shed

18
00:01:35,116 --> 00:01:37,996
Speaker 1: in their backyard where she could work out her early arrangements.

19
00:01:38,756 --> 00:01:41,356
Speaker 1: Warren also talks about her one and only music teacher,

20
00:01:41,756 --> 00:01:44,396
Speaker 1: who told her dad she had no future in music,

21
00:01:44,876 --> 00:01:47,396
Speaker 1: and why she feels she has yet to write her

22
00:01:47,396 --> 00:01:54,916
Speaker 1: best work. This is broken record liner notes for the

23
00:01:54,956 --> 00:02:03,596
Speaker 1: digital Age. I'm justin Richmonds. Here's Rick Rubin and Diane

24
00:02:03,596 --> 00:02:06,956
Speaker 1: Warren and to see you same great to see you.

25
00:02:07,196 --> 00:02:09,636
Speaker 1: It's been it has been I don't know how many years,

26
00:02:09,636 --> 00:02:11,276
Speaker 1: but it feels like it's been a long time, really

27
00:02:11,316 --> 00:02:12,796
Speaker 1: a really long time. I'm trying to think when the

28
00:02:12,876 --> 00:02:15,076
Speaker 1: last time I saw you was. I can't remember. I

29
00:02:15,116 --> 00:02:18,796
Speaker 1: can't remember I did last week. So I remember visiting

30
00:02:18,796 --> 00:02:23,276
Speaker 1: you in Malibu, and I feel like that's like ten

31
00:02:23,396 --> 00:02:26,956
Speaker 1: years ago. Probably. I remember coming your studio. I remember

32
00:02:27,196 --> 00:02:29,316
Speaker 1: being in the studio when you played me a Wheezer's

33
00:02:29,396 --> 00:02:32,276
Speaker 1: version of Unbreak My Heart, which was odd fucking awesome,

34
00:02:32,476 --> 00:02:35,156
Speaker 1: which I loved to this day. I love it. I

35
00:02:35,156 --> 00:02:37,956
Speaker 1: love just people flipping my songs. Yeah, I think that's

36
00:02:37,956 --> 00:02:40,036
Speaker 1: one of my favorites of your songs. I just love

37
00:02:40,116 --> 00:02:42,596
Speaker 1: that song. It's a it's a really special song. Thank you.

38
00:02:42,956 --> 00:02:45,036
Speaker 1: Tell me how that one got written. It started with

39
00:02:45,036 --> 00:02:47,916
Speaker 1: the title Don't Break My heart. It was a weird title.

40
00:02:48,236 --> 00:02:50,556
Speaker 1: I'd never heard it before, you know, and I can't

41
00:02:50,556 --> 00:02:59,556
Speaker 1: remember the magic of that song. No no no non

42
00:02:59,836 --> 00:03:05,396
Speaker 1: this signe me break. I went from B minor to

43
00:03:05,516 --> 00:03:07,276
Speaker 1: D minor. It was like, when I came up with that,

44
00:03:07,356 --> 00:03:10,476
Speaker 1: I was like, oh, fuck, that's fucking that's the part.

45
00:03:10,796 --> 00:03:13,316
Speaker 1: That's the part where it gets you. It hits you immediately.

46
00:03:13,316 --> 00:03:16,836
Speaker 1: It's like it's an emotional change. Yeah. Yeah, it's weird.

47
00:03:16,916 --> 00:03:19,156
Speaker 1: You know, it doesn't make any sense. But you know

48
00:03:19,196 --> 00:03:21,276
Speaker 1: that's because I you know, I didn't really study music,

49
00:03:21,396 --> 00:03:23,596
Speaker 1: so I didn't know, you know, when something's fucked up

50
00:03:23,596 --> 00:03:25,676
Speaker 1: and wrong. So I probably do a lot of fucked

51
00:03:25,716 --> 00:03:27,796
Speaker 1: up wrong things that are cool. When did you start

52
00:03:27,796 --> 00:03:30,156
Speaker 1: writing songs? How old were you? I was eleven, But

53
00:03:30,236 --> 00:03:33,716
Speaker 1: when I was when I was fourteen, I became like

54
00:03:33,756 --> 00:03:36,156
Speaker 1: obsessed where it was all I lived for. I would

55
00:03:36,156 --> 00:03:38,276
Speaker 1: study Billboard. I mean, I was a shitty student. I

56
00:03:38,316 --> 00:03:40,156
Speaker 1: got kicked out of, you know a couple of schools,

57
00:03:40,196 --> 00:03:43,876
Speaker 1: and I fucking hated school. But when I really got

58
00:03:43,916 --> 00:03:45,956
Speaker 1: into writing, you know, I made my dad get me

59
00:03:45,996 --> 00:03:48,356
Speaker 1: a subscription of Billboard. I studied it like that was

60
00:03:48,476 --> 00:03:50,716
Speaker 1: college to me. I studied to see who wrote every

61
00:03:50,756 --> 00:03:53,916
Speaker 1: song and who produced songs, and I didn't really care

62
00:03:53,956 --> 00:03:57,356
Speaker 1: who sang them, you know, as much. I was interested

63
00:03:57,396 --> 00:04:00,356
Speaker 1: in all the behind the scenes stuff going on, but

64
00:04:00,436 --> 00:04:02,756
Speaker 1: I was just obsessed, obsessed with writing. And that was

65
00:04:02,836 --> 00:04:05,396
Speaker 1: on was fourteen. So I'm the same way now. I

66
00:04:05,476 --> 00:04:08,356
Speaker 1: just go, you know, I you know, I say I'm

67
00:04:08,396 --> 00:04:10,236
Speaker 1: in a nicer play to write, but I'm not. I mean,

68
00:04:10,276 --> 00:04:13,036
Speaker 1: my room is disgusting right where I mainly work. You know,

69
00:04:13,036 --> 00:04:16,116
Speaker 1: it's really messy and dirty and stuff. So at the time,

70
00:04:16,316 --> 00:04:17,716
Speaker 1: you know, as a kid, my dad got me a

71
00:04:17,796 --> 00:04:20,476
Speaker 1: shed in the back of the house because my parents

72
00:04:20,476 --> 00:04:22,796
Speaker 1: couldn't stand listening to me playing the same song over

73
00:04:22,836 --> 00:04:24,316
Speaker 1: and over. That's why I do when i'm writing, I'm

74
00:04:24,356 --> 00:04:26,316
Speaker 1: just kind of playing it over and over and getting

75
00:04:26,316 --> 00:04:27,956
Speaker 1: it right. So I would go in that. I'd be

76
00:04:27,956 --> 00:04:30,876
Speaker 1: in that shed in the backyard, you know, this like

77
00:04:30,996 --> 00:04:34,196
Speaker 1: metal kind of shed thing and just writing and if

78
00:04:34,236 --> 00:04:36,316
Speaker 1: it was cold, eye a little heater there. I've just

79
00:04:36,396 --> 00:04:37,916
Speaker 1: been like this and I'm the same way now. I

80
00:04:37,996 --> 00:04:40,276
Speaker 1: just I just I do the same thing. I'm still

81
00:04:40,276 --> 00:04:43,316
Speaker 1: as obsessed. I think hopefully I'm better and I keep learning.

82
00:04:43,396 --> 00:04:45,716
Speaker 1: I think I'm really writing my best songs right now?

83
00:04:46,036 --> 00:04:48,716
Speaker 1: You know that I've ever written from the time you're fourteen,

84
00:04:48,756 --> 00:04:50,636
Speaker 1: Did you know you wanted to be a songwriter and

85
00:04:50,676 --> 00:04:52,236
Speaker 1: that's what you wanted to do with your life or

86
00:04:52,236 --> 00:04:53,716
Speaker 1: did you think you'd have a real job and you

87
00:04:53,756 --> 00:04:56,356
Speaker 1: would write songs too, a real job? What no I

88
00:04:56,436 --> 00:04:58,116
Speaker 1: knew when I was I knew I was eight years old.

89
00:04:58,116 --> 00:05:00,036
Speaker 1: It's what I wanted to do, you know, And there

90
00:05:00,076 --> 00:05:02,756
Speaker 1: was no plan B. Plan B is you know, being

91
00:05:02,796 --> 00:05:04,876
Speaker 1: a bag lady and you know, living on the street

92
00:05:04,916 --> 00:05:06,916
Speaker 1: or somethings. I literally do not know how to do

93
00:05:06,996 --> 00:05:09,116
Speaker 1: anything else. I don't I don't know to do anything else.

94
00:05:09,556 --> 00:05:13,396
Speaker 1: I'm utterly useless at everything except this. Where do you

95
00:05:13,436 --> 00:05:16,116
Speaker 1: think the idea came from to do it? What did

96
00:05:16,196 --> 00:05:19,716
Speaker 1: you see that at least made you want to do this? Well?

97
00:05:19,756 --> 00:05:21,996
Speaker 1: I always loved music, and i've you know, I've always

98
00:05:21,996 --> 00:05:24,676
Speaker 1: just been immersed in it. You know, I have older sisters,

99
00:05:25,076 --> 00:05:27,356
Speaker 1: so I always heard music. My mom and dad had like,

100
00:05:27,436 --> 00:05:29,396
Speaker 1: you know, all the all the great show tunes, you know,

101
00:05:29,876 --> 00:05:32,116
Speaker 1: Man and La Mansha, all those, you know, My fair Lady,

102
00:05:32,436 --> 00:05:34,956
Speaker 1: and then my sisters had all the pop music of

103
00:05:34,996 --> 00:05:37,876
Speaker 1: the day. And when I grew up radio played everything,

104
00:05:37,916 --> 00:05:40,916
Speaker 1: so I just got fed this diet of just great

105
00:05:41,036 --> 00:05:43,676
Speaker 1: music and I but anyways, I remember looking on a

106
00:05:44,276 --> 00:05:46,956
Speaker 1: single on a forty five Kids when They're there used

107
00:05:46,956 --> 00:05:51,796
Speaker 1: to be forty fives back in the old days, and

108
00:05:51,916 --> 00:05:54,436
Speaker 1: it was a forty five of up on the Roof,

109
00:05:54,436 --> 00:05:57,196
Speaker 1: and I saw a goffin King and I loved that song,

110
00:05:57,636 --> 00:05:59,996
Speaker 1: and I thought to myself, and I remember, I still

111
00:06:00,036 --> 00:06:02,036
Speaker 1: remember looking at it and going, I want to be

112
00:06:02,116 --> 00:06:04,636
Speaker 1: in those parentheses. I want to be that. I don't

113
00:06:04,636 --> 00:06:06,396
Speaker 1: want to be the singer, I don't want to do

114
00:06:06,436 --> 00:06:08,076
Speaker 1: any of that, but I want to be in the

115
00:06:08,076 --> 00:06:10,436
Speaker 1: parentheses a kid when I thought that, so, how the

116
00:06:10,516 --> 00:06:12,876
Speaker 1: fuck did I know that? So cool? That's a great

117
00:06:12,876 --> 00:06:15,316
Speaker 1: album title for your next album. In the parentheses would

118
00:06:15,356 --> 00:06:18,436
Speaker 1: be a great name. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's amazing

119
00:06:18,476 --> 00:06:22,716
Speaker 1: that you knew so early and you dedicated yourself to

120
00:06:22,796 --> 00:06:25,356
Speaker 1: it and it worked and it's one of them billion.

121
00:06:25,516 --> 00:06:28,116
Speaker 1: But it's the passion that you put in that makes

122
00:06:28,156 --> 00:06:30,876
Speaker 1: it what it is. It's like you're meant, you were

123
00:06:30,996 --> 00:06:34,196
Speaker 1: clearly meant to do this. It's interesting. Yeah. And then

124
00:06:34,236 --> 00:06:36,436
Speaker 1: there's all these you know things that these pinched me

125
00:06:36,556 --> 00:06:38,876
Speaker 1: moments like like I was the biggest Beatles fan, Like

126
00:06:38,876 --> 00:06:41,276
Speaker 1: my older one of my sisters took me to see

127
00:06:41,276 --> 00:06:43,116
Speaker 1: the Beatles twice, you know, when I was like a

128
00:06:43,196 --> 00:06:46,116
Speaker 1: little kid, like six or seven or something, and I

129
00:06:46,196 --> 00:06:49,756
Speaker 1: just had Paul McCartney and Ringo Star on my song

130
00:06:49,836 --> 00:06:51,996
Speaker 1: Here's to the Nights. In the video, they're singing my

131
00:06:52,036 --> 00:06:54,476
Speaker 1: song and with a bunch of other great artists as well,

132
00:06:54,516 --> 00:06:58,596
Speaker 1: like Lenny Kravitz and Cheryl Crowe and Chris Stapleton, you

133
00:06:58,676 --> 00:07:00,956
Speaker 1: know a lot of other artists on there, but the

134
00:07:01,476 --> 00:07:04,356
Speaker 1: you know, the main part of that song is Paul

135
00:07:04,436 --> 00:07:08,756
Speaker 1: McCartney and Ringo Star. And I'm like, I still like,

136
00:07:08,796 --> 00:07:11,156
Speaker 1: if I think about it, it kind of blows me away.

137
00:07:11,556 --> 00:07:13,716
Speaker 1: Did you take piano lessons as a kid? No, I

138
00:07:13,716 --> 00:07:15,436
Speaker 1: didn't take any. Okay, So I'm gonna tell you the

139
00:07:15,596 --> 00:07:18,436
Speaker 1: one time I took music lessons, my dad brought me

140
00:07:18,476 --> 00:07:21,036
Speaker 1: a little guitar from Tijuana. He took me to a

141
00:07:21,036 --> 00:07:24,276
Speaker 1: guitar teacher in the valley. So the guart teacher wanted

142
00:07:24,316 --> 00:07:27,076
Speaker 1: me to learn scales and I didn't. So the second time,

143
00:07:27,156 --> 00:07:28,876
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make up my own songs. I mean,

144
00:07:28,916 --> 00:07:32,316
Speaker 1: fox learning scales so I came back the next week

145
00:07:32,436 --> 00:07:35,436
Speaker 1: to take my second lesson, and the guy said, mister Warren,

146
00:07:35,836 --> 00:07:38,396
Speaker 1: you shouldn't bring your daughter back. She has no future

147
00:07:38,436 --> 00:07:42,236
Speaker 1: in music. So that was that was, That was my

148
00:07:42,356 --> 00:07:46,236
Speaker 1: music lessons. You know. I taught myself to chords. I

149
00:07:46,276 --> 00:07:48,676
Speaker 1: taught myself. I taught myself to play the piano. Someone

150
00:07:48,716 --> 00:07:51,276
Speaker 1: once told me that the piano is the songwriter's instrument.

151
00:07:51,716 --> 00:07:53,796
Speaker 1: So when I was eighteen, I'm like, okay, I'm gonna

152
00:07:54,156 --> 00:07:55,916
Speaker 1: learn enough to you know, I'm not a good piano player.

153
00:07:55,916 --> 00:07:57,476
Speaker 1: I'm not even a good guitar player, right right. I

154
00:07:57,636 --> 00:07:59,876
Speaker 1: can get around. I know chords. You know. I took

155
00:07:59,916 --> 00:08:03,476
Speaker 1: one theory class in school that you know, beginning theory,

156
00:08:03,516 --> 00:08:05,196
Speaker 1: but I don't I didn't really pay attention to it,

157
00:08:05,196 --> 00:08:07,476
Speaker 1: but maybe some of it seeped in. But again, I'm not.

158
00:08:08,116 --> 00:08:11,236
Speaker 1: I'm not a schooled musician, which is good because if you're,

159
00:08:11,276 --> 00:08:13,756
Speaker 1: if you if you have too much music education, you'll

160
00:08:13,796 --> 00:08:15,556
Speaker 1: go like, well that you can't do that, that's not

161
00:08:15,596 --> 00:08:18,156
Speaker 1: the right, that doesn't you know? Well fuck that. I

162
00:08:18,196 --> 00:08:19,916
Speaker 1: don't even know what's right or wrong. I just go

163
00:08:19,996 --> 00:08:23,556
Speaker 1: by what I feel. What's your rhythm of writing? Do

164
00:08:23,596 --> 00:08:25,796
Speaker 1: you write every day every day. It's funny with t

165
00:08:25,876 --> 00:08:31,596
Speaker 1: shirt you chose to wear fuck off, I'm writing, Yeah,

166
00:08:31,956 --> 00:08:34,436
Speaker 1: that's kind of my favorite shirt. I thought it was

167
00:08:34,476 --> 00:08:37,316
Speaker 1: appropriate since I'm since we're talking today that I should

168
00:08:37,356 --> 00:08:40,396
Speaker 1: wear that. My rhythm and my first hit being rhythm

169
00:08:40,396 --> 00:08:42,956
Speaker 1: in the night, So rhythm is a good word. You know.

170
00:08:42,956 --> 00:08:44,676
Speaker 1: I just show up, you know, I go to work

171
00:08:44,716 --> 00:08:47,476
Speaker 1: every day. I go get my coffee and go to

172
00:08:47,516 --> 00:08:50,436
Speaker 1: my office and either starting something new or working on

173
00:08:50,476 --> 00:08:52,836
Speaker 1: what I'm working on. How did the first one happen?

174
00:08:52,916 --> 00:08:55,356
Speaker 1: How did the DeBarge song happen? I was signed to

175
00:08:55,636 --> 00:08:58,076
Speaker 1: a guy named Jack White, who not not the White

176
00:08:58,116 --> 00:09:01,596
Speaker 1: stripes Jack White. I'm a German producer and through Jack,

177
00:09:01,636 --> 00:09:04,636
Speaker 1: I was signed to arist To Publishing and ministered him.

178
00:09:04,716 --> 00:09:08,716
Speaker 1: So someone over there named Linda Blum actually told me

179
00:09:08,756 --> 00:09:13,316
Speaker 1: about that this movie on the Last Dragon, and I

180
00:09:13,356 --> 00:09:14,996
Speaker 1: did the song for it. I've done a lot of

181
00:09:15,036 --> 00:09:16,876
Speaker 1: movie songs. I still That's what I do a lot of.

182
00:09:17,396 --> 00:09:20,116
Speaker 1: So my first big hit was from a movie Berry

183
00:09:20,156 --> 00:09:22,836
Speaker 1: Gordy's The Last Dragon and to Bars did the song

184
00:09:22,876 --> 00:09:24,956
Speaker 1: and its the first time that I had to you know,

185
00:09:25,156 --> 00:09:33,076
Speaker 1: hit words and music you know by me. I wouldn't

186
00:09:33,076 --> 00:09:35,196
Speaker 1: have guessed that you wrote that. I didn't. I didn't

187
00:09:35,236 --> 00:09:38,996
Speaker 1: know that you wrote that song until until recently. Again,

188
00:09:39,036 --> 00:09:41,356
Speaker 1: you write all kinds of songs, yeah, I do, but

189
00:09:41,476 --> 00:09:43,636
Speaker 1: that's not one that I would have imagined you wrote.

190
00:09:43,676 --> 00:09:45,156
Speaker 1: And it really made me happy to see that you

191
00:09:45,196 --> 00:09:47,116
Speaker 1: wrote it. I love I love that you wrote it.

192
00:09:47,156 --> 00:09:48,716
Speaker 1: I probably wrote a bunch of songs you didn't know

193
00:09:48,756 --> 00:09:50,796
Speaker 1: I wrote. You probably didn't know I wrote Blame it

194
00:09:50,836 --> 00:09:54,476
Speaker 1: on the Rain, Yeah I didn't. It's so cool. Yeah,

195
00:09:54,636 --> 00:09:56,676
Speaker 1: let's say you were to sit down now to write

196
00:09:56,676 --> 00:09:59,516
Speaker 1: a song, just start the process for me. I mean,

197
00:09:59,556 --> 00:10:00,836
Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know how to do that

198
00:10:00,956 --> 00:10:03,436
Speaker 1: in front of somebody, Like I mean, I play some chords,

199
00:10:03,436 --> 00:10:09,556
Speaker 1: I don't know. I might have a drum going on

200
00:10:09,796 --> 00:10:12,236
Speaker 1: a programmed to drum pattern or something, or I might

201
00:10:12,836 --> 00:10:22,596
Speaker 1: start playing something. What's going to come from that? Who knows?

202
00:10:23,476 --> 00:10:26,476
Speaker 1: And when you play, are you listening to what you're

203
00:10:26,996 --> 00:10:30,236
Speaker 1: You're playing and listening, and then based on what you hear,

204
00:10:31,076 --> 00:10:34,556
Speaker 1: you make decisions to change things or do something different,

205
00:10:34,636 --> 00:10:36,916
Speaker 1: or to go somewhere else. I'm not even conscious of it.

206
00:10:36,916 --> 00:10:39,196
Speaker 1: It's it's such a weird, like that's why it's hard

207
00:10:39,276 --> 00:10:41,556
Speaker 1: to like, you know, people are going, well, what's your process?

208
00:10:41,636 --> 00:10:43,996
Speaker 1: I mean, I have no fucking clue, you know, I'm

209
00:10:43,996 --> 00:10:47,156
Speaker 1: just I'm just in the moment. I'm just going with it.

210
00:10:47,236 --> 00:10:50,916
Speaker 1: And and concepts kind of pop up, these crazy concepts

211
00:10:51,516 --> 00:10:53,396
Speaker 1: like I just started something. I'm not gonna play you

212
00:10:53,396 --> 00:10:54,516
Speaker 1: because I don't know how much of it. But I

213
00:10:54,556 --> 00:10:56,676
Speaker 1: was like, the fucking coolest concept, Like you know that

214
00:10:56,716 --> 00:10:58,796
Speaker 1: no one's done this, you know, so it's kind of fun,

215
00:10:59,396 --> 00:11:01,196
Speaker 1: you know, whether it's on break my Heart or whether

216
00:11:01,236 --> 00:11:03,556
Speaker 1: it's you know, something else I'm coming up with. You know,

217
00:11:03,756 --> 00:11:06,076
Speaker 1: it's just kind of finding something that maybe hasn't been

218
00:11:06,076 --> 00:11:08,916
Speaker 1: said that way, or some notes that excite me. And

219
00:11:09,236 --> 00:11:13,356
Speaker 1: I don't know, have you always programmed a beat first

220
00:11:13,476 --> 00:11:16,076
Speaker 1: and then played to the beat or not necessarily? No,

221
00:11:16,196 --> 00:11:18,796
Speaker 1: Sometimes I don't any I'm just sitting at the guitar

222
00:11:18,996 --> 00:11:22,756
Speaker 1: or my keyboards. You know. I love big string sounds,

223
00:11:22,996 --> 00:11:25,196
Speaker 1: you know too, I love that that so, you know,

224
00:11:25,636 --> 00:11:27,956
Speaker 1: yesterday I was trying I was kind of trying to

225
00:11:28,396 --> 00:11:30,156
Speaker 1: the song was working on. I was kind of playing

226
00:11:30,156 --> 00:11:32,356
Speaker 1: in my hand on the drum machine, was and trying

227
00:11:32,356 --> 00:11:34,676
Speaker 1: to play the bass on the on my left hand.

228
00:11:34,716 --> 00:11:37,516
Speaker 1: It was kind of funny and horrible sounding, but the

229
00:11:37,556 --> 00:11:40,436
Speaker 1: song I think would be good, So you know just

230
00:11:40,476 --> 00:11:42,516
Speaker 1: how I however, way I do it? Do you typically

231
00:11:42,716 --> 00:11:46,076
Speaker 1: get the melody before the lyrics and then you fill

232
00:11:46,116 --> 00:11:49,196
Speaker 1: in the lyrics. Yeah, I mean the really good ones

233
00:11:49,276 --> 00:11:51,196
Speaker 1: kind of come together in a weird way, but then

234
00:11:51,276 --> 00:11:52,796
Speaker 1: the rest of the song I have to fill in,

235
00:11:52,876 --> 00:11:55,636
Speaker 1: like like what's you know, the first verse might have

236
00:11:55,756 --> 00:11:57,956
Speaker 1: come easy, and then you know where am I going

237
00:11:57,996 --> 00:12:00,236
Speaker 1: to go in the second verse? And I remember going

238
00:12:00,316 --> 00:12:02,756
Speaker 1: near the bridge until I have every part of the

239
00:12:02,756 --> 00:12:05,436
Speaker 1: song written, because I have no idea what the bridge

240
00:12:05,476 --> 00:12:07,996
Speaker 1: wants to take me, even musically. Would you not know

241
00:12:08,036 --> 00:12:10,716
Speaker 1: the bridge until the rest of this written? Yeah, unless

242
00:12:10,716 --> 00:12:13,156
Speaker 1: I might have had something that that I didn't use

243
00:12:13,196 --> 00:12:15,116
Speaker 1: in the in the verse that like something I did

244
00:12:15,156 --> 00:12:17,516
Speaker 1: a few weeks It was like that where it's this

245
00:12:17,596 --> 00:12:19,556
Speaker 1: part didn't work in the verse, but I was like,

246
00:12:19,636 --> 00:12:23,636
Speaker 1: I made a mental note to myself, there's there's your bridge. Yeah.

247
00:12:23,796 --> 00:12:26,116
Speaker 1: Do you ever start the process with an artist in mind,

248
00:12:26,196 --> 00:12:28,596
Speaker 1: I'm going to write a song for share or do

249
00:12:28,596 --> 00:12:30,796
Speaker 1: you just write a song? I try just to write

250
00:12:30,796 --> 00:12:32,796
Speaker 1: a song, you know, like, um, yeah, I just I

251
00:12:32,796 --> 00:12:34,956
Speaker 1: just try to write a great song. I don't want

252
00:12:34,956 --> 00:12:37,876
Speaker 1: to have any preconceived notions, like if I write it

253
00:12:37,916 --> 00:12:40,996
Speaker 1: for with one person in mind, that's going to only

254
00:12:41,076 --> 00:12:42,956
Speaker 1: be for that one person. And if they don't do

255
00:12:42,996 --> 00:12:45,196
Speaker 1: the song, you know, then what you do? You know, So,

256
00:12:45,276 --> 00:12:47,516
Speaker 1: if you write a great song, you know it can

257
00:12:47,596 --> 00:12:49,556
Speaker 1: go a million different ways and to a lot of

258
00:12:49,596 --> 00:12:52,116
Speaker 1: different people. You know, when I'm writing something, I go, oh,

259
00:12:52,156 --> 00:12:54,476
Speaker 1: that's really great for so and so or so and so.

260
00:12:55,156 --> 00:12:57,356
Speaker 1: But I don't sit down to write a song for somebody.

261
00:12:57,436 --> 00:12:59,476
Speaker 1: You know, I'm the only time I stand to write

262
00:12:59,476 --> 00:13:03,436
Speaker 1: a song for something in particular as a movie. Yeah, Typically,

263
00:13:03,556 --> 00:13:06,156
Speaker 1: if it takes a week to write a song, has

264
00:13:06,156 --> 00:13:08,076
Speaker 1: there ever been a case where a song has come

265
00:13:08,316 --> 00:13:10,556
Speaker 1: really quick or where a song that you've had to

266
00:13:10,556 --> 00:13:12,596
Speaker 1: fight with for a really long time, Has it ever

267
00:13:12,636 --> 00:13:14,956
Speaker 1: happened nothing I've had to fight with for a really

268
00:13:14,996 --> 00:13:17,356
Speaker 1: long time. A couple of them have come quick. I

269
00:13:17,356 --> 00:13:19,556
Speaker 1: could think of two songs that came really quick, you know.

270
00:13:19,676 --> 00:13:22,236
Speaker 1: Two of my favorites too. One is Until It Happens

271
00:13:22,236 --> 00:13:25,076
Speaker 1: to You, done by Lady Gaga. That song just wrote itself.

272
00:13:25,876 --> 00:13:28,636
Speaker 1: The other one is a song that called when I'm

273
00:13:28,636 --> 00:13:31,236
Speaker 1: back on my feeding in it. Michael Bolton did that

274
00:13:31,556 --> 00:13:32,996
Speaker 1: to this day is one of my favorite Both those

275
00:13:32,996 --> 00:13:35,116
Speaker 1: songs are two of my favorite songs. When they come

276
00:13:35,196 --> 00:13:38,516
Speaker 1: quickly like that, when do you start thinking about who

277
00:13:38,556 --> 00:13:41,756
Speaker 1: could record it? During the process? You know, while I'm

278
00:13:41,756 --> 00:13:43,676
Speaker 1: writing it, I think I like different artists I could

279
00:13:43,716 --> 00:13:47,276
Speaker 1: do the song. I'm not above calling people you know,

280
00:13:47,316 --> 00:13:51,996
Speaker 1: you know me? Yes. How often does it happen when

281
00:13:52,036 --> 00:13:55,396
Speaker 1: you finish a song and you think, wow, this is

282
00:13:55,556 --> 00:13:59,596
Speaker 1: really great? It's been happening a lot lately, amazing. Like

283
00:13:59,716 --> 00:14:02,196
Speaker 1: I'm like, I'm like wow. Used to be where I

284
00:14:02,236 --> 00:14:04,276
Speaker 1: felt like I'd write one of those songs every now,

285
00:14:04,436 --> 00:14:05,956
Speaker 1: like in a bunch of songs and one of those

286
00:14:05,996 --> 00:14:07,996
Speaker 1: And now I'm feeling like with a lot of what

287
00:14:08,036 --> 00:14:10,356
Speaker 1: I'm doing right now a great feeling. Yeah it is.

288
00:14:10,556 --> 00:14:13,716
Speaker 1: I feel like I'm learning and just getting better. I'm

289
00:14:13,756 --> 00:14:16,356
Speaker 1: just hungry to learn and hungry to write, and you know,

290
00:14:16,436 --> 00:14:19,996
Speaker 1: hungry to succeed. Yeah. How would you describe what makes

291
00:14:19,996 --> 00:14:23,116
Speaker 1: a song great? It's hard to describe it. You feel it, right.

292
00:14:23,236 --> 00:14:25,036
Speaker 1: A great melody, I mean, you have to have a

293
00:14:25,036 --> 00:14:27,636
Speaker 1: great melody, and to me, you have to have a

294
00:14:27,636 --> 00:14:29,196
Speaker 1: great lyric too, and you have to have the marriage

295
00:14:29,196 --> 00:14:31,156
Speaker 1: of the two. What do you think makes a great song.

296
00:14:31,716 --> 00:14:33,516
Speaker 1: I think it's the feeling. I think it's the way

297
00:14:33,556 --> 00:14:35,716
Speaker 1: it makes you feel. I don't think there's any technical

298
00:14:36,196 --> 00:14:38,476
Speaker 1: way to describe it, right, but that is what's making

299
00:14:38,516 --> 00:14:41,836
Speaker 1: you feel something when it's that perfect combination. Yeah, the

300
00:14:42,156 --> 00:14:44,676
Speaker 1: example you gave when you played Unbreak the piece of

301
00:14:44,756 --> 00:14:49,476
Speaker 1: Unbreak my Heart with that change. To me, those moments

302
00:14:49,956 --> 00:14:53,556
Speaker 1: are what makes a song great, like an unexpected change

303
00:14:54,436 --> 00:14:58,876
Speaker 1: that the fact that it's unexpected makes you listen closer,

304
00:14:59,356 --> 00:15:02,196
Speaker 1: you know, like it catches your ear, it makes you

305
00:15:02,196 --> 00:15:05,956
Speaker 1: pay attention. Yeah. But often things that catch your ear

306
00:15:05,996 --> 00:15:07,996
Speaker 1: and make you pay attention or things you don't like

307
00:15:08,476 --> 00:15:11,916
Speaker 1: so for be something. It's like a fine line when

308
00:15:11,996 --> 00:15:17,756
Speaker 1: something can be challenging enough to be interesting and still

309
00:15:18,316 --> 00:15:20,516
Speaker 1: you want to listen to it again instead of never

310
00:15:20,596 --> 00:15:24,036
Speaker 1: hear it again. Yeah, I prefer I prefer the other way.

311
00:15:24,396 --> 00:15:27,196
Speaker 1: I prefer it the good way. We'll be right back

312
00:15:27,196 --> 00:15:33,876
Speaker 1: with more from Diane Warren after a quick break. We're

313
00:15:33,916 --> 00:15:38,156
Speaker 1: back with Rick Rubin and Diane Warren after the DeBarge song.

314
00:15:38,236 --> 00:15:40,756
Speaker 1: What was the next song that somebody recorded of yours?

315
00:15:41,476 --> 00:15:44,156
Speaker 1: I think nothing's going to stop us now, or I

316
00:15:44,196 --> 00:15:46,636
Speaker 1: Get Weak? I can't remember. There's a bunch of them.

317
00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:49,916
Speaker 1: Then nothing's gonna stop us now. It was from Mannequin,

318
00:15:50,036 --> 00:15:51,916
Speaker 1: and that's kind of become a classic. I did that

319
00:15:51,956 --> 00:15:54,436
Speaker 1: with my friend Albert Hammond, and then you know, a

320
00:15:54,436 --> 00:15:56,236
Speaker 1: bunch of other ones. At that time, I'm just trying

321
00:15:56,236 --> 00:15:58,396
Speaker 1: to think a big hit with heart. Who will you

322
00:15:58,476 --> 00:16:01,396
Speaker 1: Run to? Blenda Carlile I Get Weak, which is still

323
00:16:01,396 --> 00:16:03,996
Speaker 1: one of my favorite songs I've ever done. You know,

324
00:16:04,036 --> 00:16:07,036
Speaker 1: the doors started opening, you know, the doors that are

325
00:16:07,036 --> 00:16:09,676
Speaker 1: closed as you know, you know, you know, when it

326
00:16:09,676 --> 00:16:12,516
Speaker 1: became easier, you have a little success, and and all

327
00:16:12,516 --> 00:16:14,876
Speaker 1: of a sudden, you know, it's it's the people that

328
00:16:15,116 --> 00:16:17,396
Speaker 1: didn't like that song. Oh I really like that song now,

329
00:16:17,756 --> 00:16:20,516
Speaker 1: you know that shit goes, you know, but it's just

330
00:16:20,556 --> 00:16:23,836
Speaker 1: like it's natural. Describe what the record business was like

331
00:16:23,876 --> 00:16:26,756
Speaker 1: when you entered it versus the record business of today

332
00:16:26,836 --> 00:16:29,396
Speaker 1: and all the changes it's gone through. Just describe your

333
00:16:29,396 --> 00:16:33,076
Speaker 1: experience of seeing it change. Okay, Well, one thing stays constant,

334
00:16:33,116 --> 00:16:35,516
Speaker 1: and that's a great song. So what I do stays

335
00:16:35,556 --> 00:16:37,516
Speaker 1: the same, Right, I still have to write a great song.

336
00:16:38,116 --> 00:16:41,636
Speaker 1: The negative difference to me is it's so data driven. Now.

337
00:16:41,916 --> 00:16:44,596
Speaker 1: To me, the data that matters is if it makes

338
00:16:44,636 --> 00:16:46,996
Speaker 1: the hair on your arms stand up and it makes

339
00:16:46,996 --> 00:16:49,716
Speaker 1: you your heart feel something and you just go, fuck,

340
00:16:49,836 --> 00:16:53,476
Speaker 1: what is that right? As opposed to your TikTok numbers

341
00:16:53,636 --> 00:16:56,996
Speaker 1: and all the all the algorithms. Algorithm of the night.

342
00:16:57,036 --> 00:17:01,356
Speaker 1: I'll rewrite it, the algorithm of the night. I was

343
00:17:01,396 --> 00:17:03,636
Speaker 1: talking to an artist and he's really good and he

344
00:17:03,716 --> 00:17:05,196
Speaker 1: just put his album out and I gave him a song.

345
00:17:05,276 --> 00:17:08,156
Speaker 1: So it's like last year and one of his managers

346
00:17:08,196 --> 00:17:10,276
Speaker 1: works for a major come any you know, he's on

347
00:17:10,316 --> 00:17:13,116
Speaker 1: an independent label, and I go, why doesn't your manager

348
00:17:13,156 --> 00:17:16,636
Speaker 1: sign you? And he goes, my TikTok numbers aren't high enough.

349
00:17:17,196 --> 00:17:20,236
Speaker 1: I'm like, fuck, like you know, and you think you

350
00:17:20,316 --> 00:17:23,836
Speaker 1: think that like the greatest artists, you know, with the Beatles,

351
00:17:23,996 --> 00:17:25,956
Speaker 1: you know, if their TikTok numbers weren't high Wood Prince

352
00:17:26,076 --> 00:17:29,156
Speaker 1: get signed today? Would to me some of these some

353
00:17:29,316 --> 00:17:32,236
Speaker 1: of that I find I find sad because it's really

354
00:17:32,276 --> 00:17:34,436
Speaker 1: all about, like we were talking about what a song

355
00:17:34,516 --> 00:17:37,756
Speaker 1: makes you feel, not about your numbers, because you know what,

356
00:17:38,036 --> 00:17:40,716
Speaker 1: some records and artists might take longer. But I don't

357
00:17:40,716 --> 00:17:43,476
Speaker 1: know if a label will stay with you for that

358
00:17:43,756 --> 00:17:46,636
Speaker 1: to happen. And to me, that's sad, don't you think,

359
00:17:46,676 --> 00:17:49,076
Speaker 1: don't you think? Absolutely? And some of the biggest artists

360
00:17:49,116 --> 00:17:50,796
Speaker 1: in the world didn't break to their you know, to

361
00:17:50,876 --> 00:17:53,516
Speaker 1: their third album. Yeah. And in today's the world, if

362
00:17:53,556 --> 00:17:55,636
Speaker 1: you know, if now it's a first single, yeah, you

363
00:17:55,636 --> 00:17:57,916
Speaker 1: don't even get to your second forget your second album.

364
00:17:57,956 --> 00:18:00,396
Speaker 1: You don't get to your second single. Yeah. It takes

365
00:18:00,396 --> 00:18:04,316
Speaker 1: time to develop. It's sad. That's sad, and I feel

366
00:18:04,316 --> 00:18:06,356
Speaker 1: bad for artists, and then they kind of have to

367
00:18:06,396 --> 00:18:10,236
Speaker 1: do all the work even before a label is you know, interested.

368
00:18:10,436 --> 00:18:13,276
Speaker 1: But for me, it's it's the same thing. I have

369
00:18:13,356 --> 00:18:16,196
Speaker 1: to write a song somebody wants to sing. So that

370
00:18:16,236 --> 00:18:20,876
Speaker 1: hasn't changed at all. What's the feeling when you hear

371
00:18:21,436 --> 00:18:24,436
Speaker 1: a great singer sing your song for the first time?

372
00:18:24,516 --> 00:18:27,996
Speaker 1: What's how? Does it? Nothing better? I mean nothing better?

373
00:18:28,716 --> 00:18:30,756
Speaker 1: You know. I'm sitting here writing a song and I'm

374
00:18:30,796 --> 00:18:32,716
Speaker 1: singing it and I sound like shit, you know, And

375
00:18:32,756 --> 00:18:34,516
Speaker 1: then look, I have one song. I'm gonna give you

376
00:18:34,516 --> 00:18:37,676
Speaker 1: an example, and I got to hear two great singers

377
00:18:37,676 --> 00:18:39,716
Speaker 1: on it. I wrote a song called I Was Here

378
00:18:40,076 --> 00:18:42,876
Speaker 1: that Beyonce sang really one of my favorite songs, and

379
00:18:42,916 --> 00:18:47,196
Speaker 1: then last year Dame Shirley Bassi recorded it. It was like, fuck,

380
00:18:48,356 --> 00:18:53,116
Speaker 1: it's like so cool, you know, the original James Bond.

381
00:18:53,436 --> 00:18:57,116
Speaker 1: Dame Shirley Bassi just did my song. Both song amazingly,

382
00:18:57,516 --> 00:19:00,916
Speaker 1: you know, but so different, Like Beyonce is singing it

383
00:19:01,276 --> 00:19:04,396
Speaker 1: fucking amazing, but you know she's talking about you know,

384
00:19:04,516 --> 00:19:06,876
Speaker 1: I was here, I lived, I Love. She's almost looking

385
00:19:07,356 --> 00:19:11,236
Speaker 1: ahead and then Shirley Bassis behind in a way like

386
00:19:11,356 --> 00:19:14,276
Speaker 1: everything she's done. And it's so it's such a different

387
00:19:14,276 --> 00:19:17,996
Speaker 1: reading of the song and both are just genius. I

388
00:19:18,076 --> 00:19:22,436
Speaker 1: think it's an incredible thing when the song's context changes

389
00:19:22,516 --> 00:19:25,476
Speaker 1: based on the person singing it. Oh yeah. Well. Another

390
00:19:25,596 --> 00:19:27,556
Speaker 1: another example was when I did how Do I Live?

391
00:19:27,996 --> 00:19:30,636
Speaker 1: And it was out with Leon Rhymes and Trisha Earwood

392
00:19:30,716 --> 00:19:34,356
Speaker 1: and Leon Rhymes was fourteen and then Shushia Earwood was older,

393
00:19:34,756 --> 00:19:37,236
Speaker 1: and so it meant something different like you're fourteen years old,

394
00:19:37,476 --> 00:19:39,516
Speaker 1: how do I Live without you? And both versions were great.

395
00:19:39,556 --> 00:19:41,636
Speaker 1: One was you know, kind of innocent and one was

396
00:19:41,716 --> 00:19:44,396
Speaker 1: lived in you know, and they both were fantastic. I

397
00:19:44,836 --> 00:19:48,636
Speaker 1: love to see my songs get other lives. And get reinterpreted,

398
00:19:48,756 --> 00:19:50,316
Speaker 1: you know, and I really love I love to go

399
00:19:50,316 --> 00:19:53,196
Speaker 1: on on YouTube and listen to all the covers. Yeah,

400
00:19:53,196 --> 00:19:55,716
Speaker 1: and there's some fucking cool ones I heard. I did

401
00:19:55,716 --> 00:19:59,036
Speaker 1: the song stand up for something that common and Andrew

402
00:19:59,076 --> 00:20:01,196
Speaker 1: Day sings would common. It's kind of become like this

403
00:20:01,396 --> 00:20:04,356
Speaker 1: protest anthem, you know, since it was written for this movie.

404
00:20:04,396 --> 00:20:06,716
Speaker 1: Marshall and I went online just to see if there

405
00:20:06,756 --> 00:20:09,036
Speaker 1: was any cool covers and it's like these little kids,

406
00:20:09,316 --> 00:20:11,956
Speaker 1: girl is probably eight years old, you know, singing from

407
00:20:11,956 --> 00:20:14,156
Speaker 1: her heart and singing the shit out of it, and

408
00:20:14,236 --> 00:20:17,636
Speaker 1: a little kid rapper doing Commons rap, and that just

409
00:20:17,676 --> 00:20:20,436
Speaker 1: made me so happy, like that that song got through

410
00:20:20,436 --> 00:20:22,116
Speaker 1: it right. It's like the coolest thing in the world.

411
00:20:22,556 --> 00:20:26,196
Speaker 1: Have the way that people have reinterpreted your songs. Like you,

412
00:20:26,196 --> 00:20:29,916
Speaker 1: you write the song, you give a demo to the artist,

413
00:20:30,436 --> 00:20:32,676
Speaker 1: or you given demo to the producer, and then they

414
00:20:32,716 --> 00:20:36,636
Speaker 1: make the record. How often is it very aligned with

415
00:20:36,676 --> 00:20:39,836
Speaker 1: the demo and how often does it really stray from

416
00:20:39,836 --> 00:20:43,036
Speaker 1: the demo as far as the production goes. Usually it's

417
00:20:43,156 --> 00:20:46,476
Speaker 1: it's pretty close or someone flips it, which I love.

418
00:20:46,796 --> 00:20:49,156
Speaker 1: You know. Here's the thing, it's my song, but it's

419
00:20:49,196 --> 00:20:53,756
Speaker 1: it's your record, so I know that, and that's cool

420
00:20:53,796 --> 00:20:55,876
Speaker 1: with me because I mean, you know, you want people

421
00:20:55,876 --> 00:20:57,676
Speaker 1: to respect the song, and you know, I work really

422
00:20:57,676 --> 00:21:00,196
Speaker 1: hard on them, but sometimes it'll someone will flip something.

423
00:21:00,556 --> 00:21:02,236
Speaker 1: I remember I had a song called I Could Not

424
00:21:02,316 --> 00:21:05,796
Speaker 1: ask for More that Edwin McCain did, and I remember

425
00:21:05,836 --> 00:21:08,556
Speaker 1: matts letta who's a great producer, produced it. I heard it,

426
00:21:08,596 --> 00:21:11,316
Speaker 1: I'm like, this fucking sucks it like you sped it

427
00:21:11,396 --> 00:21:14,676
Speaker 1: up like fifteen you know, beats. You know, it's this

428
00:21:14,796 --> 00:21:16,956
Speaker 1: ballad and I just I hate it when I first

429
00:21:16,956 --> 00:21:19,076
Speaker 1: heard it, And then the more I heard it, I

430
00:21:19,156 --> 00:21:22,356
Speaker 1: was like, this is fucking brilliant. What he did. He

431
00:21:22,476 --> 00:21:25,156
Speaker 1: like he flipped my song and made it better, you know.

432
00:21:25,196 --> 00:21:27,356
Speaker 1: And then it became a hit by two artists. It

433
00:21:27,356 --> 00:21:29,636
Speaker 1: became a hit with Edwin McCain and then Sarah Evans

434
00:21:29,716 --> 00:21:31,676
Speaker 1: had like a number one country record with it too,

435
00:21:32,116 --> 00:21:35,316
Speaker 1: with that arrangement. So you know, I'm all four people

436
00:21:35,796 --> 00:21:38,876
Speaker 1: flipping my songs. You know. I just wrote something recently

437
00:21:38,996 --> 00:21:41,156
Speaker 1: that kind of was just doing this afrobeat kind of thing,

438
00:21:41,676 --> 00:21:43,836
Speaker 1: and then one of my producers played for me, and

439
00:21:43,876 --> 00:21:45,556
Speaker 1: it's I had to listen to it a couple of times,

440
00:21:45,596 --> 00:21:48,076
Speaker 1: you know, but it's fucking great. He kind of flipped

441
00:21:48,116 --> 00:21:49,676
Speaker 1: it and flipped it on its head a bit. But

442
00:21:49,716 --> 00:21:52,796
Speaker 1: after someone's it takes me listening a few times to

443
00:21:53,036 --> 00:21:55,556
Speaker 1: hear past what's in my head, because what's what's in

444
00:21:55,596 --> 00:21:58,276
Speaker 1: someone else's head might be better. Would you say most

445
00:21:58,316 --> 00:22:00,676
Speaker 1: of your songs are love songs? You know, a lot

446
00:22:00,716 --> 00:22:03,356
Speaker 1: of them are, But then you know, but then my

447
00:22:03,556 --> 00:22:05,516
Speaker 1: songs about other things too. You know, I was here,

448
00:22:05,516 --> 00:22:07,236
Speaker 1: it's an a love song. Stand up for something's not

449
00:22:07,276 --> 00:22:09,436
Speaker 1: a love song until it happens you is not a

450
00:22:09,476 --> 00:22:11,956
Speaker 1: love song, you know. I've I've trying to think on

451
00:22:11,996 --> 00:22:14,996
Speaker 1: my album, there's a lot of love songs. But then

452
00:22:15,396 --> 00:22:17,556
Speaker 1: then there's times like this, the Darius Rocker song. In

453
00:22:17,636 --> 00:22:19,836
Speaker 1: times like this, we could all use an angel. How

454
00:22:19,836 --> 00:22:22,476
Speaker 1: did this new album come about? Because in the past

455
00:22:22,676 --> 00:22:25,196
Speaker 1: we've talked about a different kind of album that I

456
00:22:25,236 --> 00:22:27,236
Speaker 1: thought you were going to make. Well, you never know,

457
00:22:27,356 --> 00:22:30,236
Speaker 1: you never know about that one, okay, because that's what

458
00:22:30,316 --> 00:22:32,596
Speaker 1: I thought. When I heard you you have an album

459
00:22:32,596 --> 00:22:35,636
Speaker 1: coming out. I assumed it was that, and it's and

460
00:22:35,716 --> 00:22:38,156
Speaker 1: it turned into this and tell me that, tell me

461
00:22:38,196 --> 00:22:40,956
Speaker 1: how it happened. Yeah, it's it's it's me being DJ Diane.

462
00:22:41,236 --> 00:22:44,436
Speaker 1: You know what is is. You know, I saw a

463
00:22:44,476 --> 00:22:47,556
Speaker 1: lot of these DJ producers, the Mark Ronson's of the

464
00:22:47,596 --> 00:22:50,436
Speaker 1: World or you know, Calvin Harraz, David Getta. You know,

465
00:22:50,556 --> 00:22:53,356
Speaker 1: they all curate records of different artists. I thought, and

466
00:22:53,396 --> 00:22:55,756
Speaker 1: I have this song that John Legend did, so it

467
00:22:55,836 --> 00:22:57,396
Speaker 1: kind of happened the same time. I just don't call

468
00:22:57,396 --> 00:22:59,476
Speaker 1: it where Is Your Heart? I think it's the best

469
00:22:59,476 --> 00:23:01,676
Speaker 1: thing he's ever done. He probably doesn't because he didn't

470
00:23:01,676 --> 00:23:04,636
Speaker 1: write it. It's one of my best songs and performances

471
00:23:04,796 --> 00:23:06,836
Speaker 1: that I've ever heard on any song online. And he

472
00:23:06,916 --> 00:23:08,596
Speaker 1: kept saying he was going to use the song, and

473
00:23:08,756 --> 00:23:10,436
Speaker 1: I kept giving it to other artists and having to

474
00:23:10,516 --> 00:23:12,196
Speaker 1: pull it because he wanted it, and then he didn't

475
00:23:12,236 --> 00:23:14,516
Speaker 1: want it. In my mind, I was like, I'm determined

476
00:23:14,916 --> 00:23:17,556
Speaker 1: to get this song heard right and then I know

477
00:23:17,596 --> 00:23:20,036
Speaker 1: no one can sing it like him, but whatever. I

478
00:23:20,036 --> 00:23:21,596
Speaker 1: don't know if he's ever gonna put on his record.

479
00:23:21,636 --> 00:23:23,956
Speaker 1: But at the same time, I'm thinking that this idea

480
00:23:23,996 --> 00:23:26,596
Speaker 1: is percolating in my mind. Like you know, I do

481
00:23:26,676 --> 00:23:29,076
Speaker 1: so many different I'm in all genres of music. Most

482
00:23:29,076 --> 00:23:32,916
Speaker 1: songwriters are in one genre, whether it's hip hop, country

483
00:23:33,036 --> 00:23:36,596
Speaker 1: or Latin or rock. And I've always been in all genres.

484
00:23:36,596 --> 00:23:38,676
Speaker 1: I've always worked with every artist there is, you know,

485
00:23:38,716 --> 00:23:42,316
Speaker 1: the classical, crossover artists, everything. And it got me thinking,

486
00:23:42,596 --> 00:23:44,756
Speaker 1: you know, why can't I do that? Why can't I

487
00:23:44,836 --> 00:23:46,596
Speaker 1: curate a record and let me just do all kinds

488
00:23:46,636 --> 00:23:48,716
Speaker 1: of songs. Let me just let me do songs like

489
00:23:49,076 --> 00:23:52,996
Speaker 1: Sweet with Pentatonics and John Batiste and Domino with LP

490
00:23:53,316 --> 00:23:56,716
Speaker 1: and and give Selene Dion a really totally different song,

491
00:23:56,916 --> 00:24:00,236
Speaker 1: you know, super Superwoman, and then give a hip hop

492
00:24:00,276 --> 00:24:02,876
Speaker 1: country song to ty Dolla sign And then why can't

493
00:24:02,876 --> 00:24:06,156
Speaker 1: I put gez In Santana on a song She's fired?

494
00:24:06,436 --> 00:24:08,236
Speaker 1: You know, so it's it's all over the place, or

495
00:24:08,316 --> 00:24:12,316
Speaker 1: Louise Fonzie or there's so much variety on this album.

496
00:24:12,396 --> 00:24:16,036
Speaker 1: And usually, like when the DJ producers do something like that,

497
00:24:16,196 --> 00:24:18,596
Speaker 1: they're getting tons of writers. And by the way, every

498
00:24:18,636 --> 00:24:20,716
Speaker 1: song now, as you know, has like ten writers on it.

499
00:24:20,876 --> 00:24:23,436
Speaker 1: Well mine has one or more, you know. Or I'm

500
00:24:23,476 --> 00:24:25,316
Speaker 1: like I'm going like, what do you guys? So what

501
00:24:25,356 --> 00:24:27,436
Speaker 1: do you guys do? You got the coffee, the high

502
00:24:27,436 --> 00:24:29,836
Speaker 1: hat pattern and the bridge? What the fuck got you

503
00:24:29,876 --> 00:24:31,516
Speaker 1: a writing credit on that. But you know, I didn't

504
00:24:31,556 --> 00:24:34,156
Speaker 1: write the Spanish lyrics on this, so I do have

505
00:24:34,276 --> 00:24:36,916
Speaker 1: people that did that. Um, and I didn't write clearly,

506
00:24:36,916 --> 00:24:40,156
Speaker 1: I didn't write g Easy's rap, so that's that's all

507
00:24:40,236 --> 00:24:42,836
Speaker 1: that's his. But you know these songs are all written

508
00:24:43,156 --> 00:24:45,436
Speaker 1: solely by me. And you hear a song like sweet

509
00:24:45,436 --> 00:24:47,436
Speaker 1: and You and you go, how did that same person

510
00:24:47,476 --> 00:24:50,156
Speaker 1: write Where's Your Heart by John Legend and how to Like?

511
00:24:50,396 --> 00:24:52,596
Speaker 1: But that was what I went in, you know, wanting

512
00:24:52,596 --> 00:24:54,476
Speaker 1: to do. I kind of wanted to go, like, just

513
00:24:54,596 --> 00:24:56,916
Speaker 1: show what I do. And I have so many songs

514
00:24:56,996 --> 00:24:58,876
Speaker 1: I have. I already have like part of Volume two

515
00:24:58,916 --> 00:25:02,316
Speaker 1: because I kept changing it, because I kept writing new songs.

516
00:25:02,636 --> 00:25:04,396
Speaker 1: My favorite song on the record to Sea Side tell

517
00:25:04,436 --> 00:25:09,116
Speaker 1: Me about Oh thank You? You know, I just you know, um,

518
00:25:09,436 --> 00:25:15,516
Speaker 1: obvious season. It's not the sun drinking amtobn Zogan of

519
00:25:15,596 --> 00:25:20,836
Speaker 1: the sun Sunlight. It was just a happy song, you know.

520
00:25:21,116 --> 00:25:24,996
Speaker 1: I just, um, I can't, I don't know. I don't

521
00:25:24,996 --> 00:25:26,316
Speaker 1: know what happen. I just kind of was. I had

522
00:25:26,316 --> 00:25:28,916
Speaker 1: this drum beat I just had on my on my

523
00:25:28,996 --> 00:25:31,996
Speaker 1: drum machine. I started playing chords to it, and the

524
00:25:32,076 --> 00:25:34,316
Speaker 1: song that's the chorus just came to me, you know,

525
00:25:34,356 --> 00:25:37,636
Speaker 1: and it's just such a happy, uplifting song. And it

526
00:25:37,676 --> 00:25:40,676
Speaker 1: was like right before the pandemic, you know, but it

527
00:25:40,796 --> 00:25:42,476
Speaker 1: just kind of makes you happy, right like you could

528
00:25:42,476 --> 00:25:44,756
Speaker 1: close your eyes and just be trans you know. The

529
00:25:44,756 --> 00:25:47,876
Speaker 1: best songs to me are the ones that transport you,

530
00:25:47,876 --> 00:25:49,956
Speaker 1: you know, and they and and that song you can

531
00:25:49,956 --> 00:25:52,036
Speaker 1: close your eyes and if you can't get to the

532
00:25:52,076 --> 00:25:53,996
Speaker 1: sea side, you know, that song kind of brings the

533
00:25:54,036 --> 00:25:57,916
Speaker 1: sea side to you. When you're writing that chorus, do

534
00:25:57,956 --> 00:26:00,756
Speaker 1: you have a picture in mind? Yeah, I was. I

535
00:26:01,356 --> 00:26:03,836
Speaker 1: love the beach. I love the tropics, you know, so

536
00:26:04,036 --> 00:26:06,476
Speaker 1: I love that I kind of took me there and

537
00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:08,876
Speaker 1: it just it just made me feel It made me

538
00:26:08,876 --> 00:26:11,316
Speaker 1: feel really good, you know. And and I love the

539
00:26:11,356 --> 00:26:13,436
Speaker 1: melody in it and the verses kind of you know,

540
00:26:13,636 --> 00:26:15,596
Speaker 1: you can live your life stuck in a traffic light.

541
00:26:15,676 --> 00:26:17,156
Speaker 1: You know. It's just kind of cool. But you know,

542
00:26:17,196 --> 00:26:20,556
Speaker 1: would I'll be seaside sitting in the sand, drinking a

543
00:26:20,596 --> 00:26:22,676
Speaker 1: my tie. I just wish it said, sipping a my tie,

544
00:26:22,756 --> 00:26:25,556
Speaker 1: sitting on the sand, sip in a my tie. In hindsight,

545
00:26:25,716 --> 00:26:28,156
Speaker 1: but drinking a my tie is colt that happened often

546
00:26:28,196 --> 00:26:30,396
Speaker 1: where you'll hear a song or think about a song

547
00:26:30,836 --> 00:26:32,476
Speaker 1: and think about, oh, I could have done it this

548
00:26:32,476 --> 00:26:34,756
Speaker 1: way or a different either a different line. Well not

549
00:26:34,916 --> 00:26:38,636
Speaker 1: usually that one. Drinking my tie is fine too, but

550
00:26:39,316 --> 00:26:41,156
Speaker 1: sometimes I hear it I thought I kind of thought

551
00:26:41,156 --> 00:26:42,716
Speaker 1: that I wrote it that way, and I hear I go, oh, no,

552
00:26:42,796 --> 00:26:47,196
Speaker 1: I didn't, you know. But it's a fun song and

553
00:26:46,956 --> 00:26:49,076
Speaker 1: and and having the Spanish in it. I love that

554
00:26:49,116 --> 00:26:51,636
Speaker 1: as well. Are there any of the songs that you

555
00:26:52,156 --> 00:26:57,396
Speaker 1: that you're surprised were successful in my life? Yeah? Like

556
00:26:57,396 --> 00:27:00,636
Speaker 1: like you thought the song would any particular undry think, oh,

557
00:27:00,636 --> 00:27:03,436
Speaker 1: that one's a good one. But it you know, I

558
00:27:03,476 --> 00:27:05,716
Speaker 1: don't know that it wins these awards, but it does.

559
00:27:05,836 --> 00:27:07,916
Speaker 1: Like have you had that experience where one just like

560
00:27:07,996 --> 00:27:12,636
Speaker 1: outperforms your expectation. I'm more like the opposite. Whenever anything works,

561
00:27:12,676 --> 00:27:15,156
Speaker 1: I'm shocked, to be honest with you, Like, there's so

562
00:27:15,196 --> 00:27:17,756
Speaker 1: many it's so like, there's so many things that could

563
00:27:17,796 --> 00:27:20,596
Speaker 1: go wrong, as you know, like you probably made great records,

564
00:27:20,756 --> 00:27:23,196
Speaker 1: your best records. You go, what the fuck happened? Yeah?

565
00:27:23,236 --> 00:27:25,276
Speaker 1: And I've done that. No, I mean I remember I

566
00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:27,596
Speaker 1: did a song with the Cult called Painted on My

567
00:27:27,676 --> 00:27:30,316
Speaker 1: heart that like that should have been as big as

568
00:27:30,316 --> 00:27:32,356
Speaker 1: I don't want to miss a thing to me. You know,

569
00:27:32,636 --> 00:27:34,556
Speaker 1: the Cult did it and was for this movie Gone

570
00:27:34,556 --> 00:27:36,676
Speaker 1: in sixty seconds. But I have a bunch of those

571
00:27:36,836 --> 00:27:38,436
Speaker 1: you know that that didn't work, and you go, why

572
00:27:38,436 --> 00:27:40,876
Speaker 1: didn't that work? So when they work, it's like you

573
00:27:40,996 --> 00:27:43,876
Speaker 1: just go, that's fucking awesome. How how did that happen?

574
00:27:44,116 --> 00:27:46,076
Speaker 1: You know it is. It's one of the things that's

575
00:27:46,116 --> 00:27:49,316
Speaker 1: interesting about the process is there are so many things

576
00:27:49,356 --> 00:27:51,596
Speaker 1: that have to go right, yeah that aren't and you

577
00:27:51,636 --> 00:27:55,116
Speaker 1: can break through. Yeah, even even honestly writing it isn't

578
00:27:55,276 --> 00:27:58,276
Speaker 1: totally in our control because the ideas don't always come,

579
00:27:58,316 --> 00:28:01,436
Speaker 1: you know, like the best the best ideas don't always come. Yeah,

580
00:28:01,436 --> 00:28:03,516
Speaker 1: but when they do, when they do, and you could

581
00:28:03,556 --> 00:28:06,756
Speaker 1: have the best our control. Yeah, it's just like you know,

582
00:28:06,796 --> 00:28:09,156
Speaker 1: who knows what's going to happen. Just I just I

583
00:28:09,196 --> 00:28:11,716
Speaker 1: want to keep creating great songs. And by the way,

584
00:28:11,756 --> 00:28:14,116
Speaker 1: know my best songs aren't even heard yet. That have

585
00:28:14,276 --> 00:28:17,676
Speaker 1: so many great songs, Yeah, I'm always writing them. So

586
00:28:17,796 --> 00:28:20,196
Speaker 1: it's always great when you know when they happen or

587
00:28:20,436 --> 00:28:22,196
Speaker 1: or even if they're not the biggest hit, you know,

588
00:28:22,316 --> 00:28:25,916
Speaker 1: like maybe Here's to the Night Nights, the song did

589
00:28:26,036 --> 00:28:30,356
Speaker 1: with Ringo Garney on there that wasn't technically a hit,

590
00:28:30,396 --> 00:28:33,476
Speaker 1: but I think it's a perennial song that'll be around forever.

591
00:28:33,796 --> 00:28:36,956
Speaker 1: And I think that there's nothing cooler that's cooler than

592
00:28:36,996 --> 00:28:39,716
Speaker 1: having a number one record. To me, we're going to

593
00:28:39,756 --> 00:28:41,796
Speaker 1: take a quick break and then we'll be back with

594
00:28:41,876 --> 00:28:48,836
Speaker 1: more from Diane Warren. Here's the rest of Rick Rubins

595
00:28:48,836 --> 00:28:52,756
Speaker 1: conversation with Diane Warren. Have you had any songs that

596
00:28:53,116 --> 00:28:56,676
Speaker 1: when they came out didn't perform well but then found

597
00:28:56,676 --> 00:28:58,636
Speaker 1: a second life in a different way and turned into

598
00:28:58,636 --> 00:29:01,836
Speaker 1: a hit. Oh yeah, I do one of them. Well,

599
00:29:01,836 --> 00:29:03,956
Speaker 1: it's kind of funny. I did a song called Don't

600
00:29:03,996 --> 00:29:07,556
Speaker 1: turn Around, and it was after Tina Turner's first album,

601
00:29:08,196 --> 00:29:10,236
Speaker 1: her big comeback out them with What's Love Got to

602
00:29:10,236 --> 00:29:11,676
Speaker 1: Do with It? And she was in her second album

603
00:29:11,876 --> 00:29:14,316
Speaker 1: and I did a song called Don't turn Around and

604
00:29:15,196 --> 00:29:18,716
Speaker 1: Bryan Adams produced it, and it was fucking awesome. It

605
00:29:18,756 --> 00:29:21,476
Speaker 1: just sounded like a hit, and I remember her manager going, well,

606
00:29:21,716 --> 00:29:23,156
Speaker 1: you know it's not going to be on her album.

607
00:29:23,396 --> 00:29:26,716
Speaker 1: It's like so bummed out. I just remember, like I

608
00:29:26,756 --> 00:29:28,756
Speaker 1: stole to this day, remember how bombed out I was.

609
00:29:29,236 --> 00:29:31,556
Speaker 1: And but they put it on a song on the

610
00:29:31,596 --> 00:29:34,756
Speaker 1: B side of Typical Male of a song of Tina's.

611
00:29:35,196 --> 00:29:38,636
Speaker 1: Somehow luther Ingram, who did if Loving You is wrong,

612
00:29:38,636 --> 00:29:40,276
Speaker 1: I don't want to be right, somehow he heard the

613
00:29:40,316 --> 00:29:43,556
Speaker 1: song recorded it, and you know, it went to like,

614
00:29:43,716 --> 00:29:45,596
Speaker 1: you know, number eighty on the R and B chart,

615
00:29:46,076 --> 00:29:48,956
Speaker 1: you know, and then the song has a crazy life.

616
00:29:49,116 --> 00:29:52,996
Speaker 1: Then somehow this group called Aswa, a reggae group out

617
00:29:52,996 --> 00:29:56,996
Speaker 1: of the UK, heard luther Ingram's version and they did

618
00:29:57,036 --> 00:30:00,116
Speaker 1: a reggae version and it became a number one record

619
00:30:00,116 --> 00:30:03,676
Speaker 1: all over Europe and in England. And then along the way,

620
00:30:03,716 --> 00:30:06,436
Speaker 1: all these other people recorded, like Bonnie Tyler and Neil

621
00:30:06,516 --> 00:30:09,756
Speaker 1: Diamond and all these like people started ring the song.

622
00:30:10,156 --> 00:30:14,396
Speaker 1: And then I'm Clive Davis heard the reggae version and

623
00:30:14,436 --> 00:30:16,516
Speaker 1: gave it to Asa Bass and it did become a hit.

624
00:30:16,796 --> 00:30:19,076
Speaker 1: And here's the irony, here's the total irony, and that

625
00:30:19,436 --> 00:30:21,836
Speaker 1: I haven't seen the Tina Turner musical yet, but in

626
00:30:21,916 --> 00:30:25,436
Speaker 1: the Tina Turner musical, one of the big show stopping

627
00:30:25,476 --> 00:30:28,276
Speaker 1: moments is Tina singing that song. So it kind of

628
00:30:28,276 --> 00:30:32,716
Speaker 1: came full circle. So yeah, like songs can have a

629
00:30:32,756 --> 00:30:35,156
Speaker 1: million other lives. I don't give up on a song

630
00:30:35,236 --> 00:30:37,876
Speaker 1: because it wasn't a hit for somebody. Yeah, it's it's

631
00:30:37,916 --> 00:30:40,196
Speaker 1: fascinating how they can take on life for their own.

632
00:30:40,236 --> 00:30:42,716
Speaker 1: It's amazing to watch, and it's like a living thing,

633
00:30:42,796 --> 00:30:44,876
Speaker 1: right it is, and it is all out of our control,

634
00:30:44,916 --> 00:30:47,396
Speaker 1: and you never know why they come around. It's almost

635
00:30:47,476 --> 00:30:50,716
Speaker 1: like the way that it works is how it's meant

636
00:30:50,716 --> 00:30:54,476
Speaker 1: to be. You know. It's sometimes because it had the

637
00:30:54,516 --> 00:30:57,116
Speaker 1: first version of it been a hit, maybe all those

638
00:30:57,116 --> 00:30:59,876
Speaker 1: covers wouldn't happen. Yeah, exactly. I mean I had Neil

639
00:30:59,916 --> 00:31:01,916
Speaker 1: Diamond cover a song of mine that was cool, you know,

640
00:31:01,956 --> 00:31:04,836
Speaker 1: and then it became a hit, and then it went

641
00:31:04,876 --> 00:31:07,876
Speaker 1: full circle back to Tina Turner's musical. So to me,

642
00:31:07,956 --> 00:31:11,316
Speaker 1: a great song is timeless and genre less. At what

643
00:31:11,436 --> 00:31:14,356
Speaker 1: point is it the most fun of all the stuff

644
00:31:14,356 --> 00:31:19,156
Speaker 1: you do? Is it most fun to start a new one? Okay?

645
00:31:19,156 --> 00:31:22,236
Speaker 1: It's both. The funnest thing that I love is coming

646
00:31:22,316 --> 00:31:24,236
Speaker 1: up with something great. Some moms, I'll have a hit

647
00:31:24,276 --> 00:31:26,116
Speaker 1: of a joint and I'm working on something and I

648
00:31:26,236 --> 00:31:27,876
Speaker 1: think it's really great. Like God, I hope when I

649
00:31:27,916 --> 00:31:31,396
Speaker 1: come back and I'm not high, it still sounds good. No,

650
00:31:31,516 --> 00:31:34,236
Speaker 1: But but it's that feeling of coming up with something

651
00:31:34,356 --> 00:31:37,796
Speaker 1: that is my favorite thing. How often when you come back,

652
00:31:37,996 --> 00:31:39,996
Speaker 1: is it different than you thought it was? I know,

653
00:31:40,236 --> 00:31:42,156
Speaker 1: I usually know that day it's that thing. It's that

654
00:31:42,556 --> 00:31:44,716
Speaker 1: what's what it makes you feel? But just a cool

655
00:31:44,956 --> 00:31:47,876
Speaker 1: like just saying something in a different way that just

656
00:31:47,916 --> 00:31:50,956
Speaker 1: gets you so excited, or this melody or the combination,

657
00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:53,716
Speaker 1: or that you come up with something that there's only

658
00:31:53,756 --> 00:31:56,036
Speaker 1: so many notes and stuff, but yet you can find

659
00:31:56,076 --> 00:31:58,996
Speaker 1: a million ways to make them work. And I love.

660
00:31:58,996 --> 00:32:00,916
Speaker 1: That's my favorite thing, is to come up with something

661
00:32:01,236 --> 00:32:03,636
Speaker 1: and finishing it is great, but coming up with something

662
00:32:04,036 --> 00:32:05,876
Speaker 1: is better, you know. And then I put up a

663
00:32:05,876 --> 00:32:08,556
Speaker 1: lot of time into these songs, I really do. I'll

664
00:32:08,596 --> 00:32:12,716
Speaker 1: sit and I'll work all day long. Two lines, the

665
00:32:12,796 --> 00:32:16,036
Speaker 1: last two lines of the bridge, like fuck. Everything else

666
00:32:16,196 --> 00:32:18,796
Speaker 1: is easy, but those two lines have taken me all

667
00:32:18,916 --> 00:32:22,316
Speaker 1: day or maybe till the next day, you know. But

668
00:32:22,476 --> 00:32:24,156
Speaker 1: then you know, I'll listen to a song I might

669
00:32:24,156 --> 00:32:26,236
Speaker 1: have written, you know, a few months ago or a

670
00:32:26,276 --> 00:32:27,796
Speaker 1: year ago. Whatever. If I have a meeting with an

671
00:32:27,876 --> 00:32:30,396
Speaker 1: artist and I'll listen, I'll go I'm so glad. I

672
00:32:30,476 --> 00:32:33,156
Speaker 1: stayed with that song, and I didn't. Because I'm listening

673
00:32:33,196 --> 00:32:35,716
Speaker 1: like with fresh ears, I'm like, yeah, I'm glad I

674
00:32:35,756 --> 00:32:37,636
Speaker 1: did that. I'm glad I took those two days or

675
00:32:37,636 --> 00:32:41,036
Speaker 1: whatever it took to get that right, because it stands up.

676
00:32:41,276 --> 00:32:43,956
Speaker 1: Do you ever leave a song unfinished or never? You

677
00:32:44,076 --> 00:32:47,316
Speaker 1: always finish? And I finished everything I'm writing at the time,

678
00:32:47,436 --> 00:32:49,196
Speaker 1: but I have some starts that I should get to

679
00:32:49,796 --> 00:32:52,116
Speaker 1: and start might just be like a cool chord change

680
00:32:52,156 --> 00:32:55,316
Speaker 1: or like the beginning of something. How how small would

681
00:32:55,316 --> 00:32:58,236
Speaker 1: an idea be that's worth worth coming back to. It's

682
00:32:58,276 --> 00:33:01,756
Speaker 1: usually a chorus, it's usually a hook. I move on

683
00:33:01,796 --> 00:33:03,676
Speaker 1: to something else and I go, come, what about that?

684
00:33:04,196 --> 00:33:06,236
Speaker 1: I should go back to that, and I will I will.

685
00:33:06,476 --> 00:33:08,476
Speaker 1: I have some really good songs that I'll finished, but

686
00:33:08,476 --> 00:33:10,676
Speaker 1: I'm always coming u the new ones. It's like my album.

687
00:33:10,716 --> 00:33:12,796
Speaker 1: I kept like, you know, I kept coming up with

688
00:33:12,836 --> 00:33:14,396
Speaker 1: new songs. I'm like, well, I want to do this one.

689
00:33:14,716 --> 00:33:18,316
Speaker 1: You know. My album was done, and my dentist his

690
00:33:18,396 --> 00:33:20,316
Speaker 1: friends with someone in Pentatonics. My album is done and

691
00:33:20,316 --> 00:33:23,476
Speaker 1: he goes, you need to, you know, meet the Pentatonics people,

692
00:33:23,516 --> 00:33:25,836
Speaker 1: and go, oh, I'd just written this song called sweet

693
00:33:26,196 --> 00:33:27,876
Speaker 1: it's kind of like it's all my albums called kind

694
00:33:27,916 --> 00:33:29,956
Speaker 1: of motowny and so I met them and my album

695
00:33:30,036 --> 00:33:31,836
Speaker 1: is really done. I'm like, I want them to do sweet.

696
00:33:31,836 --> 00:33:34,276
Speaker 1: And then I ran into John Battiste at the Oscars

697
00:33:34,356 --> 00:33:36,316
Speaker 1: earlier this year where I lost for my twelfth time,

698
00:33:36,876 --> 00:33:40,076
Speaker 1: and it's okay, I'm in the game and I fucking

699
00:33:40,116 --> 00:33:42,836
Speaker 1: love it. Yea, and John Battiste won, you know, for

700
00:33:43,036 --> 00:33:46,356
Speaker 1: on his first nomination for Soul and when I when

701
00:33:46,356 --> 00:33:48,436
Speaker 1: I met him, I was like, oh, what if I

702
00:33:48,436 --> 00:33:52,356
Speaker 1: put together John and and Pentatonics, I could be so

703
00:33:52,596 --> 00:33:56,236
Speaker 1: totally cool because John's whole vibe is this positivity. He's

704
00:33:56,276 --> 00:33:58,556
Speaker 1: like so upbeat. I wrote the song that's when I

705
00:33:58,556 --> 00:34:01,716
Speaker 1: was nominated for this year. It's called c Yeah. Laura

706
00:34:01,756 --> 00:34:04,036
Speaker 1: Puzzini sang it. Can you play a little bit of

707
00:34:04,036 --> 00:34:06,956
Speaker 1: the of the song, the one I wrote for the movie? Yeah? Yeah, yeah,

708
00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:08,196
Speaker 1: but can you just play a little now so we

709
00:34:08,236 --> 00:34:13,236
Speaker 1: can hear it? M I want you to know know

710
00:34:13,996 --> 00:34:32,556
Speaker 1: that you see because I see who you sorry, and

711
00:34:32,916 --> 00:34:43,756
Speaker 1: I see too who you I can't see it, who

712
00:34:43,916 --> 00:34:53,516
Speaker 1: can from me? I want you to know that you

713
00:34:53,556 --> 00:35:03,996
Speaker 1: see when you think then no one understands you. Oh, oh, well,

714
00:35:04,276 --> 00:35:06,836
Speaker 1: it's a beautiful song. I can't see it. It sounds

715
00:35:06,916 --> 00:35:09,996
Speaker 1: so good. Yeah, listen to it. It's called well in Italian,

716
00:35:10,036 --> 00:35:14,436
Speaker 1: it's called eoc scene and Laura Pazzini sings it, so's

717
00:35:14,596 --> 00:35:17,156
Speaker 1: it's beautiful in Italian. You've had a couple of other

718
00:35:17,156 --> 00:35:19,796
Speaker 1: songs that have been translated into Italian. How does that

719
00:35:19,876 --> 00:35:22,356
Speaker 1: experience work? I love it. I love when my songs

720
00:35:22,356 --> 00:35:25,476
Speaker 1: are in different languages and everything sounds better in Italian

721
00:35:25,516 --> 00:35:28,876
Speaker 1: and Spanish. Yeah, it just does. They're both such beautiful,

722
00:35:29,076 --> 00:35:31,836
Speaker 1: romantic languages. That's why I really on my album I wanted.

723
00:35:31,956 --> 00:35:34,676
Speaker 1: I definitely wanted Spanish. When you write a song for

724
00:35:34,716 --> 00:35:37,556
Speaker 1: a movie, do they tell you the story? Do they

725
00:35:37,596 --> 00:35:39,316
Speaker 1: give you the script? Like? How much do you like

726
00:35:39,356 --> 00:35:41,476
Speaker 1: to know before writing a song for a movie. Oh?

727
00:35:41,516 --> 00:35:44,316
Speaker 1: I like to know everything. Ideally I could see a

728
00:35:44,396 --> 00:35:46,436
Speaker 1: rough film, like like this year, I did a song.

729
00:35:46,756 --> 00:35:48,316
Speaker 1: I did but a few songs, but I did. One

730
00:35:48,316 --> 00:35:49,876
Speaker 1: of the ones I'm really excited about is a song

731
00:35:49,916 --> 00:35:53,516
Speaker 1: called Somehow You Do that Reba McEntire sings, and it's

732
00:35:53,516 --> 00:35:56,276
Speaker 1: from a movie called Four Good Days Glenn Close and

733
00:35:56,356 --> 00:35:59,756
Speaker 1: Mulakunas about a drug addic daughter and her and her mom,

734
00:35:59,796 --> 00:36:02,316
Speaker 1: and it's a really powerful movie. But I saw I

735
00:36:02,316 --> 00:36:04,436
Speaker 1: saw a rough of that, and I wanted to write

736
00:36:04,476 --> 00:36:06,996
Speaker 1: a song, a really hopeful song, you know, at the

737
00:36:07,076 --> 00:36:09,476
Speaker 1: end of that movie. And I got Reba can Tied

738
00:36:09,516 --> 00:36:11,756
Speaker 1: to sing my song, which is really cool too. She's

739
00:36:11,796 --> 00:36:14,596
Speaker 1: so great, which she puts into it, and that song

740
00:36:14,636 --> 00:36:17,276
Speaker 1: in that movie it means one thing, but outside of

741
00:36:17,276 --> 00:36:19,396
Speaker 1: the movie, because it's about like going through tough times,

742
00:36:19,436 --> 00:36:20,996
Speaker 1: you know, and if you look at the comments on

743
00:36:21,036 --> 00:36:23,476
Speaker 1: the video, it's a lot about depression, a lot of

744
00:36:23,756 --> 00:36:26,356
Speaker 1: hardships the people that you're going through. So I try

745
00:36:26,396 --> 00:36:28,796
Speaker 1: to keep the song open as well to fit the movie.

746
00:36:29,196 --> 00:36:32,356
Speaker 1: That's that's the most important thing. But it has to

747
00:36:32,396 --> 00:36:34,796
Speaker 1: live outside of the movie as well, and then people

748
00:36:34,796 --> 00:36:37,436
Speaker 1: could become whatever anybody wants it to be. But back

749
00:36:37,476 --> 00:36:41,916
Speaker 1: to your question, Ideally, if if I watch a movie

750
00:36:42,916 --> 00:36:44,836
Speaker 1: or read a script, but I have to see, I

751
00:36:44,836 --> 00:36:47,636
Speaker 1: have to feel what that is, and then it's a

752
00:36:47,676 --> 00:36:50,436
Speaker 1: subconscious thing, and it's if I'm doing an end song,

753
00:36:50,556 --> 00:36:52,676
Speaker 1: like I did something I'm so excited about. I'm not

754
00:36:52,676 --> 00:36:55,436
Speaker 1: going to talk rauts for next year that I read

755
00:36:55,956 --> 00:36:59,676
Speaker 1: the script and it just was so powerful and It

756
00:36:59,756 --> 00:37:01,956
Speaker 1: took me a couple of days to figure out what

757
00:37:02,036 --> 00:37:04,116
Speaker 1: I wanted to say there, because it was had to

758
00:37:04,116 --> 00:37:08,316
Speaker 1: speak for the character and it's an actual person, so

759
00:37:08,356 --> 00:37:11,236
Speaker 1: it had to really be powerful and shok me a

760
00:37:11,276 --> 00:37:12,956
Speaker 1: couple days. But when I got it and I sat

761
00:37:12,996 --> 00:37:17,076
Speaker 1: at the keyboard and I started crying, I knew that

762
00:37:17,236 --> 00:37:20,636
Speaker 1: it was wow, that I knew it was right, Yeah, beautiful.

763
00:37:21,276 --> 00:37:23,956
Speaker 1: Do you ever hear something that you wrote a long

764
00:37:23,996 --> 00:37:26,916
Speaker 1: time ago and have a new understanding of what it

765
00:37:26,956 --> 00:37:31,276
Speaker 1: means later? Not really. I don't go back and listen

766
00:37:31,276 --> 00:37:33,716
Speaker 1: to my old songs, but if I did, I probably would.

767
00:37:33,756 --> 00:37:36,716
Speaker 1: I'm so forward motion and how I am like I

768
00:37:36,756 --> 00:37:40,036
Speaker 1: don't usually look back, like my rear view mirror is

769
00:37:40,076 --> 00:37:42,916
Speaker 1: just cracked. But you're still. Your songs are so in

770
00:37:42,956 --> 00:37:45,636
Speaker 1: the culture that you come up. Your songs come up.

771
00:37:46,276 --> 00:37:49,196
Speaker 1: If you live life, we get to hear your songs

772
00:37:49,236 --> 00:37:51,156
Speaker 1: in life, you know, without the same for me, like

773
00:37:51,196 --> 00:37:54,276
Speaker 1: I don't, I don't. I don't listen back to my music,

774
00:37:54,316 --> 00:37:56,516
Speaker 1: but it's not unusual for me for me to be

775
00:37:56,556 --> 00:37:58,996
Speaker 1: somewhere and hear one of my old songs. Yeah, And

776
00:37:59,036 --> 00:38:01,396
Speaker 1: how amazing is it that you the work you did,

777
00:38:01,596 --> 00:38:03,956
Speaker 1: You've done, but you're thinking of different things now, right,

778
00:38:03,956 --> 00:38:06,156
Speaker 1: you've already moved past that. But when you stop and

779
00:38:06,196 --> 00:38:09,276
Speaker 1: think about it, it is mind blowing the effect what

780
00:38:09,316 --> 00:38:11,356
Speaker 1: you do or what I do has on people. It's

781
00:38:11,436 --> 00:38:13,716
Speaker 1: it's it's it's just like when when we grew up,

782
00:38:14,156 --> 00:38:16,996
Speaker 1: think about how that was for us. Well, that's what

783
00:38:17,236 --> 00:38:19,556
Speaker 1: you're doing or what I'm doing could be for them,

784
00:38:19,996 --> 00:38:22,036
Speaker 1: and it's still it has the same effect on us.

785
00:38:22,076 --> 00:38:24,476
Speaker 1: I mean, I know when I hear a song. Sometimes

786
00:38:24,516 --> 00:38:26,396
Speaker 1: I'll hear a song and I don't remember if I

787
00:38:26,436 --> 00:38:28,596
Speaker 1: hear something I like, I can't tell whether I worked

788
00:38:28,636 --> 00:38:31,316
Speaker 1: on it or not. Yeah, because they fall into the

789
00:38:31,356 --> 00:38:34,476
Speaker 1: same category of something that I've listened to so much. Right,

790
00:38:35,036 --> 00:38:37,676
Speaker 1: either I was in the room or I wasn't right right,

791
00:38:37,836 --> 00:38:40,836
Speaker 1: but the same I've heard it, you know, ten thousand times,

792
00:38:40,836 --> 00:38:43,436
Speaker 1: so I may have been there, you know. I to

793
00:38:43,476 --> 00:38:46,196
Speaker 1: think about have to try to picture the room and

794
00:38:46,236 --> 00:38:48,476
Speaker 1: see if I was there. Sometimes it really feels familiar.

795
00:38:48,476 --> 00:38:51,156
Speaker 1: It's like, wow, where did we record this? Like oh wait,

796
00:38:51,196 --> 00:38:53,036
Speaker 1: I had nothing to do with this one. You could

797
00:38:53,076 --> 00:38:54,836
Speaker 1: be somewhere and you hear something you go like it

798
00:38:54,876 --> 00:38:58,076
Speaker 1: happens to me, Like I was getting coffee BC before

799
00:38:58,116 --> 00:39:01,276
Speaker 1: COVID and I heard something. I go, what is that? Oh,

800
00:39:01,316 --> 00:39:03,596
Speaker 1: that happened to me recently too, And it was just

801
00:39:03,676 --> 00:39:06,356
Speaker 1: the most random thing. And they were my songs that

802
00:39:06,396 --> 00:39:09,876
Speaker 1: happened to me at a restaurant like last month, my friend. Yeah.

803
00:39:09,916 --> 00:39:11,436
Speaker 1: And it was so weird because I was about to

804
00:39:11,436 --> 00:39:13,636
Speaker 1: send one of the songs. I forgot that someone even

805
00:39:13,676 --> 00:39:15,236
Speaker 1: did it, and I was about to send it to

806
00:39:15,276 --> 00:39:17,956
Speaker 1: another artist, you know, like I'm glad I didn't because

807
00:39:17,956 --> 00:39:19,556
Speaker 1: they would have wanted They probably it was in the

808
00:39:19,556 --> 00:39:21,556
Speaker 1: same genre, muse, they probably wouldn't wanted to do it.

809
00:39:21,716 --> 00:39:24,916
Speaker 1: Another song comes on right after, and it was this

810
00:39:25,036 --> 00:39:27,716
Speaker 1: obscure song I did on in sync. I was like, wait,

811
00:39:27,916 --> 00:39:30,676
Speaker 1: that sounds familiar. Oh shit, that's my song. And I

812
00:39:30,716 --> 00:39:32,956
Speaker 1: was wondering if if someone in the restaurant knew that

813
00:39:32,996 --> 00:39:34,596
Speaker 1: I was there or something, because it was kind of

814
00:39:34,636 --> 00:39:37,516
Speaker 1: obscure songs. Yeah, but I forgot that that was mine.

815
00:39:37,596 --> 00:39:40,956
Speaker 1: And then I just she zam it, Yeah, it's happened

816
00:39:40,996 --> 00:39:44,876
Speaker 1: to me too. She zam songs like oh wow, yeah,

817
00:39:44,876 --> 00:39:47,716
Speaker 1: completely forget. It's just has to do in both of

818
00:39:47,756 --> 00:39:50,276
Speaker 1: our cases. With the volume even we make, we work

819
00:39:50,316 --> 00:39:52,796
Speaker 1: on a lot of music and it comes in and

820
00:39:52,836 --> 00:39:54,916
Speaker 1: it goes out. Yeah, exactly, and it's on in the

821
00:39:54,956 --> 00:39:57,276
Speaker 1: next and not there doesn't mean a lot to us,

822
00:39:57,276 --> 00:39:59,836
Speaker 1: because it does, you know, my songs yet to me.

823
00:39:59,996 --> 00:40:01,996
Speaker 1: But I'm like, I'm I'm what I'm excited about was

824
00:40:02,036 --> 00:40:05,236
Speaker 1: the next song and what I'm working on now? And yeah,

825
00:40:05,276 --> 00:40:08,516
Speaker 1: anything else from just from your love of music that

826
00:40:08,556 --> 00:40:11,076
Speaker 1: you want to talk about, I don't think I kind

827
00:40:11,076 --> 00:40:13,076
Speaker 1: of covered I just I just love doing this. I

828
00:40:13,116 --> 00:40:15,556
Speaker 1: love writing songs. I feel like I've almost like never

829
00:40:15,636 --> 00:40:17,836
Speaker 1: had a hit, you know, So it's all it's all

830
00:40:17,956 --> 00:40:20,956
Speaker 1: it's that hunger and that that love of it that

831
00:40:20,996 --> 00:40:24,196
Speaker 1: means everything. Yeah, it's no different. It's nice when their

832
00:40:24,276 --> 00:40:27,276
Speaker 1: hits at the same time when we but we when

833
00:40:27,276 --> 00:40:29,436
Speaker 1: we get to make them. The minute that it's done,

834
00:40:29,716 --> 00:40:31,756
Speaker 1: it's a great feeling of like, wow, we got to

835
00:40:31,796 --> 00:40:35,156
Speaker 1: make this beautiful thing. Yeah, it's the coolest feeling in

836
00:40:35,156 --> 00:40:37,476
Speaker 1: the world. You just want the world to hear them,

837
00:40:38,036 --> 00:40:41,636
Speaker 1: absolutely cool. Well, I hope that there's a way for

838
00:40:41,716 --> 00:40:43,636
Speaker 1: the world to hear all of the songs that you

839
00:40:43,676 --> 00:40:45,996
Speaker 1: have that are that you've never put out and that

840
00:40:46,116 --> 00:40:48,716
Speaker 1: have not yet come out, and that'd be a fun

841
00:40:48,796 --> 00:40:50,716
Speaker 1: thing to think about is how to make that happen

842
00:40:50,756 --> 00:40:55,316
Speaker 1: because they all they all need to be hear. Yeah,

843
00:40:55,356 --> 00:40:58,436
Speaker 1: yeah for sure on this album. You know, there's so

844
00:40:58,436 --> 00:41:01,236
Speaker 1: many good songs on this album too that I hope

845
00:41:01,276 --> 00:41:03,636
Speaker 1: that we get singles rights to the John Legend song

846
00:41:03,636 --> 00:41:06,076
Speaker 1: because that's just such a great song. Yeah. I like

847
00:41:06,196 --> 00:41:08,196
Speaker 1: the Domino song too. I think, Yeah, is that a

848
00:41:08,196 --> 00:41:11,356
Speaker 1: cool song that's like the that's so unlike. That's one

849
00:41:11,396 --> 00:41:14,076
Speaker 1: that's like people are like you wrote that. It's so different.

850
00:41:14,116 --> 00:41:17,836
Speaker 1: It's like a spaghetti western weird song. And and I

851
00:41:17,916 --> 00:41:21,076
Speaker 1: love LP's voice on it, and it's just it's so weird.

852
00:41:21,276 --> 00:41:23,036
Speaker 1: But I think that's like a big song on there.

853
00:41:23,116 --> 00:41:25,636
Speaker 1: That's a lot of people's favorite song. It's really catchy.

854
00:41:25,716 --> 00:41:27,756
Speaker 1: It's just super catchy. And I like the fact that

855
00:41:27,796 --> 00:41:30,196
Speaker 1: it's not like other songs, you know, it's a particular thing.

856
00:41:30,236 --> 00:41:32,996
Speaker 1: It's it's really good. Thank you. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

857
00:41:32,996 --> 00:41:34,636
Speaker 1: I have things that people don't even know that I have,

858
00:41:34,916 --> 00:41:37,756
Speaker 1: you know too, and that's that's one of them. I'm

859
00:41:37,796 --> 00:41:40,116
Speaker 1: glad it got a chance to get heard, and I

860
00:41:40,156 --> 00:41:43,876
Speaker 1: hope it's a big hen that's true. We see you soon. Okay,

861
00:41:43,956 --> 00:41:45,556
Speaker 1: great to see you. I hope to see you in

862
00:41:45,596 --> 00:41:52,036
Speaker 1: person soon. Same thanks to Diane Warren for sharing her

863
00:41:52,076 --> 00:41:55,316
Speaker 1: songwriting process with great. You can check out a playlist

864
00:41:55,316 --> 00:41:58,276
Speaker 1: of our favorite Diane Warren Penn songs plus her new

865
00:41:58,316 --> 00:42:01,516
Speaker 1: album at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure to

866
00:42:01,556 --> 00:42:04,516
Speaker 1: subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com slash

867
00:42:04,596 --> 00:42:08,276
Speaker 1: Broken Record Podcast. We can find all of our new episodes.

868
00:42:08,636 --> 00:42:11,796
Speaker 1: You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. Broken

869
00:42:11,796 --> 00:42:16,076
Speaker 1: Record is produced with helpful Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, Martin Gonzalez,

870
00:42:16,596 --> 00:42:20,556
Speaker 1: Eric Sandler, and Jennifer Sanchez, with engineering help from Nick Chafee.

871
00:42:20,716 --> 00:42:24,236
Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Mila Bell. Broken Record is a

872
00:42:24,236 --> 00:42:27,156
Speaker 1: production of Pushkin Industries. If you love this show and

873
00:42:27,276 --> 00:42:31,436
Speaker 1: others from Pushkin, consider becoming a Pushnick. Pushnick is a

874
00:42:31,476 --> 00:42:35,476
Speaker 1: podcast subscription that offers bonus content and uninterrupted ad free

875
00:42:35,476 --> 00:42:38,516
Speaker 1: listening for four ninety nine a month. Look for Pushnick

876
00:42:38,556 --> 00:42:41,916
Speaker 1: exclusively on Apple podcast subscriptions, and if you like the show,

877
00:42:42,116 --> 00:42:44,316
Speaker 1: please remember to share, rate, and review us on your

878
00:42:44,356 --> 00:42:47,636
Speaker 1: podcast to have our the music spect Kenny Beats, I'm

879
00:42:47,716 --> 00:42:48,516
Speaker 1: justin Richmond,