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Speaker 1: Welcome, Welcome, Welcome back to the Bob Left Sets podcast.

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Speaker 1: My guest today is guitarist extraordinaire Jeff Skunk Baxter. Jeff,

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Speaker 1: how you doing, I'm doing just find it. That's very

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Speaker 1: kind of you, the introduction. That was very kind. Thank you. Okay,

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Speaker 1: do most people in your intimate life refer to you

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Speaker 1: as Skunk or Jeff? They refer to me as Skunk.

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Speaker 1: It's my sort of rocket roll nickname. And for my

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Speaker 1: day job, even when I was at the White House,

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Speaker 1: President Bush called me sculpture. So and it's my call signs.

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Speaker 1: So when I get on the phone and people are

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Speaker 1: looking at me like I'm from flatted X and said, listen,

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Speaker 1: I need to talk to Nato Balls and bam bam.

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Speaker 1: So get him on the phone and they'll go, what

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Speaker 1: the hell are you talking about? Everybody has a call sign. So, yeah,

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Speaker 1: you have a new album, Speed of Heat. Sir? Why

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Speaker 1: record an album? Well, since I've been working on it

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Speaker 1: for about twelve years, there comes a time when everybody

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Speaker 1: must graduate from high school and you have to, you know,

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Speaker 1: stop what you're doing and put a period on it.

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Speaker 1: So I got to the point with my my music

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Speaker 1: production writer partner c J. Vanston, where after twelve years

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Speaker 1: we figured we got everything that we need. We'll take

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Speaker 1: it from there. Okay, I know c J emails me.

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Speaker 1: How do you know CJ? I met c J in

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Speaker 1: Chicago many years ago, about thirty years ago, when I

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Speaker 1: was flying to Chicago to do jingles. Uh. They had asked,

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Speaker 1: you know, for the different jingle houses. Um, sleeping on

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Speaker 1: the sofa at Universal Studios sounds in Chicago, because why

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Speaker 1: go to the hotel when you started seven am and

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Speaker 1: keep doing it until you drop. So I would spent

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Speaker 1: like a week in the studio, and many of the

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Speaker 1: sessions that I did there uh included c J as

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Speaker 1: the keyboard player, and we started to play together. We

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Speaker 1: had a really good time. And then one day, um

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Speaker 1: it was a Wednesday. I think it was the producer

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Speaker 1: of the jingle, who shall remain nameless, so I'll just

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Speaker 1: say his name was Bob Um came in and he

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Speaker 1: was really banked. Uh. It looked like being up for

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Speaker 1: about three or four days, which is fine. You know,

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Speaker 1: we're session sluts, you know, we do what we do.

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Speaker 1: And so Bobby walks in and goes, okay, guys, all right, um,

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Speaker 1: are you guys ready and say, sure, man, what do

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Speaker 1: you got? He said, well, here, here it is. So

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Speaker 1: he starts to hand out the music and it says

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Speaker 1: highat it has a key signature, at a time signature,

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Speaker 1: and sixty four bars. That's it. So he says, well,

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Speaker 1: you guys ready, And I looked at c J. And

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Speaker 1: he looked at me and said, yeah, what the hell,

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Speaker 1: who needs music? Give us a click? We know what

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Speaker 1: the key signature is. Let's go. And so we composed

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Speaker 1: on the fly the jingle, and afterwards we realized, hey,

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Speaker 1: if we could do this, maybe we ought to start

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Speaker 1: playing together. And I said to him, listen, if I

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Speaker 1: were do a solo project, I would love to do

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Speaker 1: it with you, because actually the proof is in the

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Speaker 1: eating of the pudding. As they say, there are two

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Speaker 1: cuts on the album, both instrumentals that we just wrote

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Speaker 1: as we played it. So there's this really wonderful magic

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Speaker 1: and and nonverbal communication sort of understanding in a higher

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Speaker 1: dimension when the two of us play together. So we

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Speaker 1: started recording together and we filled up twelve tracks and

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Speaker 1: again it's time. Okay. Needless to say, today's landscape is

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Speaker 1: very different from the seventies and eighties when you had

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Speaker 1: your most commercial success and it's hard to get notice

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Speaker 1: you don't make as much money on recordings. What are

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Speaker 1: your expectations or what are your feelings about that? That's

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Speaker 1: an interesting question. I guess if I was nineteen or

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Speaker 1: twenty three. You know, it's just like Steely Dana when

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Speaker 1: we did the first record. Oh yeah, man, it's gonna

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Speaker 1: be great. You know, Uh, that car on Sunset strip.

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna have one of those, you know, move out

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Speaker 1: of that crappy apartment in Hollywood. Now. The most important

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Speaker 1: thing to me it was actually making me what do

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Speaker 1: we call them records? Now? Well, you know there's still recordings.

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Speaker 1: I call them records. A record, you're making a record?

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Speaker 1: So are kk idea absolutely so? Uh to make to

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Speaker 1: do a recording of some of the stuff that I

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Speaker 1: would like to do because I've hat a session musician.

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Speaker 1: I counted the years. It's a little nuts. It's sixty

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Speaker 1: years so far of working in the studios as a

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Speaker 1: studio sausage. So it's time and I'm not planning. It

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Speaker 1: was more important to me actually to be a first

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Speaker 1: call studio guy that it was to be a rock star.

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Speaker 1: To me, you can either have a nice airplane or

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Speaker 1: you can be top gun. So I kind of move

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Speaker 1: towards the the ladder. But making a solo record, the

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Speaker 1: opportunity to actually play what I wanted, Um, that's was important.

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Speaker 1: That was really important, and doing it with c J

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Speaker 1: was even more fun. And you know Clint Black and uh,

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Speaker 1: Mike McDonald and um uh David Paige played the organ

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Speaker 1: solo on My Old School and Johnny Lange and I

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Speaker 1: mean it was gonna be an instrumental album. Then all

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Speaker 1: these guys said they wanted to work on the record.

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Speaker 1: I said, sure, why not, and here we are. So

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Speaker 1: it's half vocals, half instrumentals. But most importantly it has

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Speaker 1: a patchy on it, which was always my favorite instrument

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Speaker 1: it as a kid. Okay, it took twelve years. So

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Speaker 1: where did you record in a home studio? How did

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Speaker 1: you do it in? What were the gaps in between tracks?

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Speaker 1: The vast majority of it was at CJ's place. He

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Speaker 1: has a studio called the Treehouse. And it took twelve years.

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Speaker 1: Because I'm produced at albums, I'm doing tons of studio work.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I'm still going out in the road, you know,

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Speaker 1: with Julie and Lena are different folks, And uh CJ

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Speaker 1: is a busy guy too, so it really was it

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Speaker 1: was like getting together with your son to build a birdhouse.

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Speaker 1: Whenever you can find the time, you're go into the workshop,

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Speaker 1: and today we'll do this, and tomorrow we'll do this.

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Speaker 1: So it was, yeah, it was kind of like that

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Speaker 1: home craft. Okay, you mentioned a son and a treehouse.

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Speaker 1: Do you have any kids? I do. I have two

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Speaker 1: wonderful children, And how old are they today? My son

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Speaker 1: is forty five and my daughter is third e seven. Now,

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Speaker 1: my son Fender not my idea, a little a little

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Speaker 1: bit stower. What's the middle name Fender? Okay, so the

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Speaker 1: middle name is Fender. What's the first name Jeffrey? But

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Speaker 1: everybody calls him so if it wasn't your choice, it

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Speaker 1: was his mother's choice. Yes, And uh my my grandson

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Speaker 1: his middle name is Gibson. So I'm thinking if I

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Speaker 1: ever have a daughter, a granddaughter, I'll probably want to

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Speaker 1: name her Taylor Martin, which I think is a beautiful

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Speaker 1: name anyway, you know. And so I have that, and

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Speaker 1: I have my daughter. She has three children, and her

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Speaker 1: name is Faith. My son is a building contractor. He

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Speaker 1: was former Special Forces. Something's Ranger Battalion, Panama Haiti, etcetera, etcetera.

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Speaker 1: My daughter I brought into the dark Side when she

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Speaker 1: was eighteen, brought her into d C, hooked her up

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Speaker 1: at the Potomac Institute for Policy Studies, and she's been

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Speaker 1: moving downrange ever since. Okay, the life of the musician,

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Speaker 1: it tends to be itinerant. How was it having kids

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Speaker 1: being a musician? Did you have enough time or do

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Speaker 1: you wish you had more time? I certainly wished I

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Speaker 1: had more time. Um, and I didn't really get to

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Speaker 1: spend much time with him until later on. But they

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Speaker 1: bring me such joy. Uh, And it's probably I probably

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Speaker 1: appreciate it more now. Frankly, the older you get, the more,

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Speaker 1: at least in my experience, the little things drop away.

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Speaker 1: You begin to experience a lot more as you get older,

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Speaker 1: because you have enough experience to appreciate experience. So that

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Speaker 1: makes sense. I'm old too, so I completely understand it's

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Speaker 1: a wisdom. People who are not old don't understand. But

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Speaker 1: when you're in that park, it becomes obviously well. And

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Speaker 1: you tell it, tell your kids that they go, yeah, sure,

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Speaker 1: right right, and and now my daughter goes, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: Now I get it, Yeah, okay, how many times you've

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Speaker 1: been married? Never been married? Okay, so the mother of

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Speaker 1: those two children, how long were you with her? Two

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Speaker 1: different mothers? I see, And I really don't want to

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Speaker 1: get too much into it because I don't want to.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to bring it too much personal stuff

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Speaker 1: into it. I mean, I don't you know, I got

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Speaker 1: nothing to hide. But I also don't want to when

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Speaker 1: you when you bring you know, personal stuff into it

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Speaker 1: you I don't know. I just I'm always careful about that.

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Speaker 1: People can say anything they want to buy me. But

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Speaker 1: let me just ask this. Being a musician, is it

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Speaker 1: hard to sustain relationships? I think so, But I can

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Speaker 1: only speak for myself. I know musicians that have been

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Speaker 1: married or have been living with someone for a bazillion years.

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Speaker 1: And then I know musicians who have never been married

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Speaker 1: or musicians who married later in life. So I probably

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Speaker 1: am not the go to person for expert advice. I'm

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Speaker 1: not a SMEE, a subject matter expert on on that. Um,

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Speaker 1: I've seen it every I've seen it all. Okay, let's

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Speaker 1: go right as we speak, there's the conflict in Ukraine

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Speaker 1: between Ukraine and Russia. As a defense expert. What do

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Speaker 1: you see there? My caveat, and I have to be

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Speaker 1: very careful. My caveat is I do not speak for

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Speaker 1: the US government, and any opinion that I have or

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Speaker 1: any observation that I make is purely, purely personal, and

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Speaker 1: I have to say that as a disclaimer. Um, so

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Speaker 1: you're asked to give me what do I think about

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Speaker 1: this situation? In Let me just ask you before we

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Speaker 1: get there. Since you gave that disclaimer, are you still

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Speaker 1: working for the government in the defense capacity? Yes? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So when I'm talking about Ukraine in Russia, let me

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Speaker 1: set it up. Certainly communism fell, Putin came in, turns

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Speaker 1: into autocracy. You know, he took property back after the Olympics.

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Speaker 1: We have never put a stop to it. Now he

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Speaker 1: is invaded Ukraine. Suddenly the Western country seemed to be

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Speaker 1: sending munitions. As an expert in this field, how does

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Speaker 1: it play out? Because you know, just yesterday they said, okay,

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Speaker 1: this is you know, all NATO attacking us and we

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Speaker 1: have the nuclear option. How do you see this conflict? Well,

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Speaker 1: a little bit of context. After the fall of the

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Speaker 1: Soviet Union, which was the combination of French Fies, blue

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Speaker 1: jeans Elvis Presley and misssile defense. The Soviet Union became

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Speaker 1: Russia and had this sort of regroup. Putin, I believe,

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Speaker 1: has a vision where he would like to go down

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Speaker 1: in history as the great Russian unifier who brought Russia

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Speaker 1: back to its golden era where its borders were the

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Speaker 1: same as at the end of World War Two. Install Uh,

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Speaker 1: create it a buffer zone what the Russians referred to

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Speaker 1: as the near strategic around Russia to protect him. And

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Speaker 1: you know he's done that. He thinks that without that

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Speaker 1: military that sort of land uh land soldier land warfare concept. Uh,

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Speaker 1: what's gonna happen? It's gonna get even uglier, I think,

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Speaker 1: And that's just my opinion. Uh. Mr Putin is a

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Speaker 1: ruthless killer. He has and the Russian way of fighting.

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Speaker 1: If you're familiar with Afghanistan, the use of and I

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Speaker 1: personnel minds that are designed to blow off the hands

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Speaker 1: and feet of young children, crushing babies underneath tank treads. Uh.

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Speaker 1: If you can get your head around another non Western

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Speaker 1: and Judeo Christian way of looking at warfare, then you

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Speaker 1: can begin to understand his doctrine and his war fighting doctrine.

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Speaker 1: You mentioned nuclear weapons. The Russians have stated their doctrine

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Speaker 1: of escalate to de escalate the possible use of nuclear

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Speaker 1: weapons and a conventional UH scenario mostly too, if they

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Speaker 1: feel that the near strategic, the area that's close to

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Speaker 1: them is threatened. UH. This, this kind of warfare is ruthless.

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Speaker 1: You saw it in Syria, you saw it in Georgia,

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Speaker 1: you saw it in Czech Death. There's nothing new here.

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Speaker 1: It's the same nastiness we have all that history, which

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Speaker 1: is ruthless. So let's talk about Ukraine specifically terms of Putin.

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Speaker 1: Can he end up with East Ukraine to clear victory

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Speaker 1: and leave it at that? Would that satisfy him? The

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Speaker 1: strategic messaging, the perception management, perception engineering, moving in terms

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Speaker 1: of their media, which is very controlled, the fact that

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Speaker 1: their vast majority of their population has no access to

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Speaker 1: any other media but state media, preparing them to say, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 1: don't you don't you remember we said that this is

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Speaker 1: really what we wanted. You know how that works? So

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Speaker 1: you read so it's very or well, and the Ministry

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Speaker 1: of truth will then begin to remind people of what

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Speaker 1: the truth is supposed to be, that he would what

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Speaker 1: he really wants. First of all, he wants access. He

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Speaker 1: wants to cut off the south of Ukraine. Who wants

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Speaker 1: to make sure that he has access to the water.

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Speaker 1: Number two, he wants to make sure that Ukraine is

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Speaker 1: a crippled orphan struggling for life for the rest of

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Speaker 1: its foreseeable future. He's killing everything he's and he is

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Speaker 1: destroying the infrastructure of the country. It again looks very

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Speaker 1: much like nineteen forty four, end of ninety three, beginning

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Speaker 1: of nineteen in Europe when the Russians invaded or return

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Speaker 1: the favor to Germany during World War Two. Utter complete devastation. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so if it's utter complete devastation, how should the West

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Speaker 1: handle putin? Well, that's an interesting question, and again I

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Speaker 1: have to be to be very careful. Let me step

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Speaker 1: back for a second. Um. In many of the war

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Speaker 1: games that I do of the time, I represent the

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Speaker 1: Red team, Red meaning the bad guys of all the

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Speaker 1: bad guys. The number one objective and the number one

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Speaker 1: uh the most important thing is regime preservation. Everything else

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Speaker 1: takes a second, takes second place, second fiddle. Preserving yourself

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Speaker 1: as the leader in an autocracy is the only goal.

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Speaker 1: Everything else is subsumed to that. Putin needs to stay

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Speaker 1: in power. The only way he can stay in power

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Speaker 1: is to constantly do a number of things amplify and

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Speaker 1: praise Russia's strength. You've noticed that the one word that

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Speaker 1: the Russian media uses in referring to Ukraine more than

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Speaker 1: any anything else is nazis Nazism. So what he's doing

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Speaker 1: is he's recalling the memory of the Great Patriotic War,

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Speaker 1: is how the Russians refer to World War Two and

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Speaker 1: ginning up that emotion that we're fighting Nazis. If you're

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Speaker 1: fighting anybody else, it's kind of hard to hate the Ukrainians.

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Speaker 1: Most of them speak Russian. So you have to create

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Speaker 1: an enemy, and then you have to conquer them, and

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Speaker 1: you have to show that you're conquering them, and you

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Speaker 1: have to show that you're ruthless. So Putin needs to

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Speaker 1: prove that he's a leader, proved that he's in control,

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Speaker 1: create whatever mythology that he needs to create, to say

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Speaker 1: to his people, I have accomplished what I've accomplished, See

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Speaker 1: what a great leader I am. That's the goal, and

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Speaker 1: of course, to cripple Ukraine to the point where maybe

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Speaker 1: it doesn't even become a part of NATO. He was

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Speaker 1: very upset about that one. Okay, so at first everybody

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Speaker 1: was there were sanctions on Russia, but the Western countries

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Speaker 1: relatively hands off. Just recently the United States government said

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Speaker 1: they'll ship material within seven days. Germany now is coming

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Speaker 1: down opposite even though they need fuel opposite Russia. Israel

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Speaker 1: is condemning Russia. Is this just all words, or are

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Speaker 1: we going to send them enough infrastructure, tanks, you know, missiles,

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Speaker 1: etcetera that they can defend themselves. Where is a foregoing

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Speaker 1: conclusion that Prutin will take what he wants. Well, again,

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Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I'm not gonna even speculate on US

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Speaker 1: or Western policy. But the fact that the Germans, in

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Speaker 1: some shape or form now they've backtracked a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but still in some shape or form, have said, in

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Speaker 1: spite of the fact that we rely on Russian uh

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Speaker 1: um fuel, mostly natural gas and some coal, we are

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Speaker 1: willing to take a stand against against Russian aggression. I

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Speaker 1: think Putin has made a big mistake because in his

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Speaker 1: own mind his the way the Russians conduct foreign policy

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Speaker 1: is much the same way the Chinese do. They they

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Speaker 1: live in a bilateral world. They don't like to live

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Speaker 1: in a multilateral world. To them, NATO is a multi

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Speaker 1: multilateral situation and problem each separate country. If you deal

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Speaker 1: with each separate country country in a bilateral way makes

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Speaker 1: it a lot easier. And then you can UH, in

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Speaker 1: typical Russian fashion, UH pit one ally against the other

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Speaker 1: and create discord and split the alliances. Hasn't really worked

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Speaker 1: that well. It worked many times before, but it hasn't

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Speaker 1: worked that well this time. So I believe he's made

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Speaker 1: a miscalculation on that level. The only problem is if

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Speaker 1: it gets to the point where it starts to look

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Speaker 1: bad for him, he's gonna have a couple of tough choices.

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Speaker 1: I don't think we'll see the nuclear option, but what

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Speaker 1: I I am very afraid of is the use of

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Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction other than nuclear weapons, or what

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Speaker 1: we are seeing is massive conventional destruction of everything, people, buildings, infrastructure, everything,

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Speaker 1: to just lay waste to it completely, which is what

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Speaker 1: the Russians did in Germany during World War Two. If

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Speaker 1: we talk about Syria, we talked about poison gas. You

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Speaker 1: think that's an option they might use. What I think

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Speaker 1: about Syria, well, we talk about chemical warfare. I'm not

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Speaker 1: as worried about that as I am about the use

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Speaker 1: of things like barrel bombs in the Scriminate killing. They

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Speaker 1: found a number of flashettes embedded in buildings in certain

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Speaker 1: outside of certain cities in Ukraine. I don't know if

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Speaker 1: you're familiar with flashettes, no, no, can you explain what

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Speaker 1: those are? And also barrel bombs. A flashette is in

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Speaker 1: a sense kind of like a modern arrowhead. Uh. It

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Speaker 1: is made out of a very strong metal and when

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Speaker 1: it pierces something it's it leaves a very ugly wound.

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Speaker 1: It's like, um, if somebody loaded up a cannon with

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Speaker 1: a bunch of straightened fish hooks that were probably three

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Speaker 1: inches long and maybe half fininch wide by the thousands.

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Speaker 1: It's basically a scythe that cuts through everything. It's an

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Speaker 1: it's a complete anti personnel weapon. It's designed to maim

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Speaker 1: and kill on Uh. It's probably the modern version of

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Speaker 1: what grape shot was back in the Barrel bombs are

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Speaker 1: basically fifty five gallon drums full of explosives and whatever

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Speaker 1: else you might want to put in it, pass uh, metal, glass, whatever,

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Speaker 1: and you just roll them out of helicopters and you

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Speaker 1: roll them down on people and it kills everything without

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Speaker 1: a sixties seventy ft radius. Do you anticipate, as a

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Speaker 1: result of sanctions and as result of inferior tanks and morale,

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Speaker 1: that the Russians may end up with the depleted force

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Speaker 1: or do you believe they have enough resources they can

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Speaker 1: continue to fight for a very long time. I'm I

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Speaker 1: think they're gonna They're gonna have a problem recruiting their

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Speaker 1: Their military will never be all volunteer, and one of

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Speaker 1: the reasons find the low morale in the military. I mean,

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Speaker 1: I remember in UH back in the day, I think

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Speaker 1: it was Blenko flew a big into Japan out of

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Speaker 1: the camp Chat Peninsula, but it couldn't go above fifteen

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Speaker 1: thousand feet because the ground crew had drank all the

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Speaker 1: d I all hydraulic fluid. So that gives you an

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Speaker 1: idea about what it's like to be in the Russian

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Speaker 1: army um as far as um inferior tanks, Yes, and

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Speaker 1: no that that I there will come a time where

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Speaker 1: there will be decisions made by Putin and his inner

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Speaker 1: circle to change the the equipment, UH military hardware that

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Speaker 1: they apply to the conflict. As far as um, what

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Speaker 1: what will happen In. Right now, Russia is making more

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Speaker 1: money now from it from uh petroleum exports than they

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Speaker 1: were before the conflict. So right now he's not hurting

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Speaker 1: at all. It's actually doing much better. So the question

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Speaker 1: is how do you define winning? Just how I understand

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Speaker 1: because you're closer than I am. So you're saying, despite

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Speaker 1: all the sanctions and the fall of the ruble and

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Speaker 1: the banking restrictions, when even it all out, he's actually

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Speaker 1: doing better. Yeah, I just remember quickly. I was I

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Speaker 1: was giving the Wall Street Journal today and I saw

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Speaker 1: an article that spoke about his I think I was

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Speaker 1: in the Wall Street Journal that spoke about how he

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Speaker 1: was actually collecting more money than he was before, not

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Speaker 1: hurting sanctions notwithstanding the Russian people are not happy. But

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Speaker 1: so what? And do you think there's been talk of

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Speaker 1: Sweden in Finland joining NATO. Is that a possibility or

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Speaker 1: that's just gonna trigger more mayhem. I think it's a

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Speaker 1: possibility for a couple of reasons. One the obvious reason

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Speaker 1: is if they believe that Putin has miscalculated now, they

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Speaker 1: probably don't believe that he has learned a whole lot

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Speaker 1: from the situation. And we go back to the motivation,

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Speaker 1: regime preservation, etcetera, etcetera. That's not really gonna change. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And also NATO has become in some sense a de

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Speaker 1: facto trade organization. It's not just military, but there's a

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Speaker 1: lot of economic interaction between members of NATO, and so

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Speaker 1: for some it has become more than a military alliance.

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Speaker 1: It has become economic, social, educational, etcetera, etcetera. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's grown a couple of facets to it. So it

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Speaker 1: makes good sense. So how does trying to fit into

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Speaker 1: all this? That's a rather broad question. That's like saying,

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Speaker 1: play me every solo you overplayed. Okay, let's attack it

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Speaker 1: from a different way. Certainly, under Clinton we moved towards globalization. Okay,

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Speaker 1: now there is talk that we're deglobalizing. Needless to say,

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Speaker 1: when Trump was president, he certainly pulled back. The world

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Speaker 1: was getting closer, and now people are talking about the

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Speaker 1: world pulling apart into its various Fiefdom's got a bad connotation.

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Speaker 1: But the EU, the United States, China, Russia, how do

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Speaker 1: you see globalization today? Right? Going back to tribal um

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Speaker 1: first of all, again to understand the Chinese government leadership philosophy,

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Speaker 1: first of all, Number one, they are the chosen people.

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Speaker 1: Number two, they have been humiliated in their own mind

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Speaker 1: for the past hundred years and it's time to pay

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Speaker 1: the piper. Number three, they feel that they should be

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Speaker 1: now the leader of the world, and it's interesting to

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Speaker 1: see how they're going about doing that. One way, of course,

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Speaker 1: is to replace the dollar as the world currency. And

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Speaker 1: I will bet you whatever it is you'd like to

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Speaker 1: bet um, you know, uh, dinner at the cheesecake factory,

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Speaker 1: whatever it is that they will be asking the Russians

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Speaker 1: to pay. The Russians will be asking the Russians they

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Speaker 1: will pay the Russians for their um um raw materials

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Speaker 1: in Chinese currency. And as soon as they do that,

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Speaker 1: the Iranians will do the same. They're they're pushing very

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Speaker 1: hard to replace that. So it's not just warfare or

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Speaker 1: conflict on a narrow level, it's conflict all across the board.

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Speaker 1: China is the only real winner in this game right now,

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Speaker 1: because they're gonna buy everything that Russia can dig out

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Speaker 1: of the ground. I remember a friend of mine on

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Speaker 1: the Joint chiefs of Staff asked me, said, skunk, I

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Speaker 1: want you to describe to me in very few words.

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Speaker 1: The Russia said, yes, sir, Russia is a nuclear armed

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Speaker 1: gas station run by the mafia with a little grocery

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Speaker 1: store that sells a couple of things. If that's all

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Speaker 1: you got, and you're being sanctioned by much of the world,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have to worry like the Chinese. One

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Speaker 1: of the reasons that the Chinese have been so active

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Speaker 1: in the South China Sea is they remember the the

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Speaker 1: Co East Asian Co Prosperity Sphere that Japan set up

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Speaker 1: in World War Two to try to protect the sea

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Speaker 1: lanes of communication and supply. China has done that. But

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Speaker 1: now you could build a railroad from Russia to China,

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Speaker 1: never have to put anything on a ship and protect

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Speaker 1: your ability to um access raw materials. And the Russians

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Speaker 1: will sell them everything they've got, and the and the

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Speaker 1: Chinese will buy everything they have. So who wins right now? Okay,

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Speaker 1: So let's talk about America. One thing, you know, it's

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Speaker 1: hard to move forward in America if you read about China.

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Speaker 1: Not only are they head in electric cars, they're buying

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Speaker 1: up all the rang materials around the world. In addition,

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Speaker 1: as we know, production goes where its cheapest. Presidentally production

425
00:30:07,960 --> 00:30:12,840
Speaker 1: is in China of chips, of computers, et cetera, mostly Taiwan,

426
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:18,240
Speaker 1: mostly Taiwan. That begs two questions. Since China certainly clamped

427
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:22,400
Speaker 1: down on Hong Kong and supposedly the next move is Taiwan.

428
00:30:23,360 --> 00:30:26,000
Speaker 1: Is that something that's imminent. If there's such a word

429
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:32,640
Speaker 1: as imminence, then I would say the definition of imminence

430
00:30:33,040 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: in the Western world which is usually about a thirteen

431
00:30:36,560 --> 00:30:42,640
Speaker 1: week um economic cycle in business, and China which is

432
00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: five or six hundred years, and in bits and pieces,

433
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 1: I would say from a Chinese point of view, it's imminent.

434
00:30:52,040 --> 00:30:57,800
Speaker 1: There's a couple of factors here. They the goal of

435
00:30:57,840 --> 00:31:02,360
Speaker 1: the Chinese government in the last fifty years has been

436
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:09,560
Speaker 1: to reclaim three things Macau, Hong Kong, and Taiwan. They

437
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:13,800
Speaker 1: got two out of three. J And Ping also has

438
00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:16,960
Speaker 1: to show something. The next party congress is coming up

439
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:22,880
Speaker 1: very soon, and he wants to be um h King

440
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,600
Speaker 1: or President or whatever acute label they want to put

441
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:31,760
Speaker 1: on it for life. So he has to prove that

442
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:34,440
Speaker 1: there's a reason for that and that people should agree

443
00:31:34,480 --> 00:31:41,120
Speaker 1: to that. So is the invasion of Taiwan imminent? In

444
00:31:41,200 --> 00:31:45,640
Speaker 1: a from a Chinese perspective, yes, whether from a Western perspective,

445
00:31:46,320 --> 00:31:49,840
Speaker 1: I don't think so. I don't think China is capable

446
00:31:51,000 --> 00:31:55,040
Speaker 1: of securing Taiwan. I think it would be a very

447
00:31:55,120 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: different battle. And this is just my opinion. I would

448
00:32:00,840 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: posit that there will be no massive attack like you

449
00:32:04,880 --> 00:32:08,560
Speaker 1: see in Ukraine. There will be a cyber attack. I

450
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,120
Speaker 1: would call it a cyber siege that will shut Taiwan

451
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:17,560
Speaker 1: down until people starve and then sue for piece. So

452
00:32:17,640 --> 00:32:19,880
Speaker 1: let's talk about warfare. You and me grew up in

453
00:32:19,880 --> 00:32:23,240
Speaker 1: the Vietnam era. We were told that America was the

454
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:25,360
Speaker 1: greatest country in the world. We could win any war.

455
00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:29,400
Speaker 1: But needless to say, with guerilla warfare, hearts and minds,

456
00:32:29,520 --> 00:32:33,360
Speaker 1: we could not win. So for sixty odd years we've

457
00:32:33,360 --> 00:32:37,800
Speaker 1: had the nuclear option. So if you're fighting war today,

458
00:32:38,400 --> 00:32:42,640
Speaker 1: how important are missiles? We have this incredible defense budget.

459
00:32:42,680 --> 00:32:45,400
Speaker 1: Where should it be put? Missiles and nuclear weapons are

460
00:32:45,440 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 1: two different things. I think that's important to make the distinction.

461
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: Let me reframe the question. If you were in charge

462
00:32:50,720 --> 00:32:56,480
Speaker 1: of the defense budget, how would you allocate money today? Okay,

463
00:32:57,000 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: probably go out on a limb here. I would be

464
00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:08,560
Speaker 1: lots and lots of submarines, I watched Germany almost twice

465
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 1: when simply because they have the underwater advantage um as

466
00:33:16,760 --> 00:33:20,320
Speaker 1: far as and this is not meant to at all

467
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:26,000
Speaker 1: reflect negatively on any of the services, but the Chinese

468
00:33:26,040 --> 00:33:33,040
Speaker 1: have built specific weapons to counter specific US weapons systems.

469
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:39,520
Speaker 1: Give you any example, the DF and the DF are

470
00:33:39,760 --> 00:33:43,080
Speaker 1: anti ship missiles, but they're anti ship missiles that have

471
00:33:43,120 --> 00:33:48,000
Speaker 1: a range of They have the ability to take out

472
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 1: an aircraft carrier. Now, if you look at the range

473
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,960
Speaker 1: of the typical aircraft on an aircraft carrier, it's a

474
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: lot less than that. So the idea Chinese strategy is

475
00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:08,280
Speaker 1: we will keep American carrier battle groups away from US

476
00:34:08,320 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 1: so they can no longer function. Now again I'm not

477
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,800
Speaker 1: gonna I'm right on the edge here, but just because

478
00:34:15,040 --> 00:34:18,720
Speaker 1: carrier battle groups are big doesn't mean there are fat

479
00:34:18,760 --> 00:34:21,359
Speaker 1: targets all the time. And I'll just leave it at that.

480
00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 1: In terms of the ability to prosecute the underwater domain,

481
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:38,520
Speaker 1: the Chinese have built a lot of diesel submarines. Diesel

482
00:34:38,560 --> 00:34:45,600
Speaker 1: meaning non nuclear, and actually an air independent probulsion design

483
00:34:46,280 --> 00:34:49,880
Speaker 1: in a non nuclear submarine is quieter even than some

484
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:54,480
Speaker 1: nuclear submarines. They don't have the range, but it doesn't

485
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,400
Speaker 1: make any difference if you're fighting in the littorals or

486
00:34:57,440 --> 00:35:02,000
Speaker 1: if you're fighting in your near strategic In China, that

487
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:04,080
Speaker 1: would be in the first style and chain or the

488
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: second island chain in the South China seat. So as

489
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,879
Speaker 1: I watched the Chinese very specifically, very specifically designed their

490
00:35:13,920 --> 00:35:18,120
Speaker 1: weapons systems based on going to war with the United States,

491
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,920
Speaker 1: missiles are excellent. I would build a lot of missiles.

492
00:35:22,400 --> 00:35:24,439
Speaker 1: I would build a lot of cruise missiles. I would

493
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,560
Speaker 1: build a lot of hypersonic missiles. I would build a

494
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: lot of weapons that are autonomous, that are nonpiloted, that

495
00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:36,359
Speaker 1: are fast, that cover a vast spectrum from going very

496
00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:39,759
Speaker 1: slowly to going to mock ten. And I would I

497
00:35:39,760 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: would highly complicate my adversaries ability to intercept and prosecute

498
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:53,280
Speaker 1: any kind of defensive capability against those kind of weapons.

499
00:35:55,160 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: Nuclear weapons. We already talked about that. Under Trump, there

500
00:35:59,719 --> 00:36:05,400
Speaker 1: was pulling back and an America first philosophy. If you

501
00:36:05,440 --> 00:36:10,520
Speaker 1: were running the country, what would your philosophy be Integrating

502
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:12,359
Speaker 1: with the rest of the world. There are a lot

503
00:36:12,400 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: of things here, not only defense. There's economic issues, there's

504
00:36:16,080 --> 00:36:19,960
Speaker 1: climate issues. To what degree should we be integrated in

505
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,240
Speaker 1: the rest of the world, or should we pull back. Well,

506
00:36:22,320 --> 00:36:24,600
Speaker 1: let's look at a little bit of history. What happened

507
00:36:24,640 --> 00:36:30,360
Speaker 1: after World War Two? Did the United States conquer anybody? No,

508
00:36:31,760 --> 00:36:36,080
Speaker 1: what they did was put in place the US dollar

509
00:36:37,080 --> 00:36:42,520
Speaker 1: as the world currency. Didn't have to shoot anybody, didn't

510
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,960
Speaker 1: have to blow anything up. I mean, this is after

511
00:36:45,040 --> 00:36:48,760
Speaker 1: World War Two. The idea of becoming a world power

512
00:36:49,120 --> 00:36:54,240
Speaker 1: without killing everything in sight, unlike some of the other

513
00:36:54,320 --> 00:36:57,560
Speaker 1: adversaries that we could talk about back at World War two,

514
00:36:58,320 --> 00:37:04,319
Speaker 1: was kind of an interesting idea. The British did it

515
00:37:05,440 --> 00:37:08,319
Speaker 1: back in the sixteen seventeen and eighteen hundreds, but they

516
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:13,120
Speaker 1: followed it on with military strength as well, you're I

517
00:37:13,160 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: mean England, the UK for many years was the world

518
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:21,319
Speaker 1: economic power, but they backed it up with military might.

519
00:37:22,320 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: Same thing with the United States. After World War two.

520
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:30,920
Speaker 1: Two things happened. One American became the the the the

521
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,440
Speaker 1: what would you call it, the sort of centerpiece of

522
00:37:35,480 --> 00:37:39,239
Speaker 1: the world economy. And number two, they became the guaranteur

523
00:37:40,160 --> 00:37:47,799
Speaker 1: of of freedom against authoritarian regimes, and they guaranteed it

524
00:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,399
Speaker 1: with nuclear weapons. The Russians had a seven to one

525
00:37:52,520 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: conventional advantage in Europe. Everybody in every military commander in

526
00:37:57,560 --> 00:38:03,880
Speaker 1: Germany was sitting there waiting for hundred hundreds of armored

527
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:10,200
Speaker 1: Russian divisions pouring down the folded gap into Germany. The

528
00:38:10,239 --> 00:38:14,040
Speaker 1: only way to stop that would be with technical nuclear weapons.

529
00:38:16,239 --> 00:38:21,560
Speaker 1: Why did the Russians deploy the s S twenty because

530
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:25,360
Speaker 1: they needed a tactical nuclear option? Why did they not?

531
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,880
Speaker 1: Why did NATO deploy the Pershing too, to say to

532
00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:34,640
Speaker 1: the Russians, ain't gonna work, buddy. We are now in

533
00:38:34,800 --> 00:38:39,400
Speaker 1: your wheelhouse with tactical nuclear weapons, and you don't know

534
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:42,799
Speaker 1: if we're gonna use them or not. So for a

535
00:38:42,880 --> 00:38:47,400
Speaker 1: long time, it was a bipolar world. China had really

536
00:38:47,440 --> 00:38:54,839
Speaker 1: not risen to any uh super strength as it is now.

537
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:58,920
Speaker 1: They certainly had a large army, but their economy was

538
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: the size of O High for you know, a long time.

539
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:07,120
Speaker 1: So for a long time everything was kind of imbalance.

540
00:39:07,760 --> 00:39:12,280
Speaker 1: You either on one side or the other. Everybody like dollars,

541
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: but you were either allied to Russia China wasn't really

542
00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:23,960
Speaker 1: a player in the alliance game at the time, or

543
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:26,760
Speaker 1: you were aligned to the United States. Now it's interesting,

544
00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:33,040
Speaker 1: there's the third player, very powerful both economically and militarily.

545
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:38,239
Speaker 1: I mean I I believe the Chinese thought about this.

546
00:39:38,360 --> 00:39:42,880
Speaker 1: It said, I think the formula is what the United

547
00:39:42,960 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: States did after World War Two. Let's manufacture everything, Let's

548
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:53,719
Speaker 1: try to become the world currency. Let's become the dominant

549
00:39:53,760 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: military power and reach out and through alliances, not conquering

550
00:40:03,560 --> 00:40:09,080
Speaker 1: through the belt of road. Um uh concept bring people

551
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:14,319
Speaker 1: into our fold looks to me. I would say it

552
00:40:14,360 --> 00:40:18,719
Speaker 1: passes the duck test. Walks like a duck, quacks like

553
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:23,600
Speaker 1: a duck, probably a duck. It looks exactly like what

554
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:26,600
Speaker 1: the United States did. So what do the United States

555
00:40:26,640 --> 00:40:29,399
Speaker 1: do going forward? Well, now you're asking me to talk

556
00:40:29,440 --> 00:40:34,120
Speaker 1: about policy, and that's always an interesting arena. The United

557
00:40:34,120 --> 00:40:38,480
Speaker 1: States has two main problems. One is China has infiltrated

558
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:45,319
Speaker 1: the United States on all levels government, commercial, academic, and

559
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 1: it's very difficult once that adversary has gained this much

560
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:54,880
Speaker 1: control to be able to deal with it. You have

561
00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,840
Speaker 1: to know. Let me say that if one were to

562
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:04,480
Speaker 1: try to meliorate that, one would have to number one,

563
00:41:07,719 --> 00:41:13,000
Speaker 1: um unite the population to understand what the dangers are,

564
00:41:15,400 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 1: get their agreement that there is a problem, and get

565
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:22,840
Speaker 1: their agreement on what the solutions might be. Before you

566
00:41:22,880 --> 00:41:26,919
Speaker 1: even discuss the solutions. You have to have support, can't

567
00:41:26,960 --> 00:41:30,960
Speaker 1: do anything unless people will let you do it. And

568
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:36,200
Speaker 1: in a tripolar world, it's very different. Some would argue

569
00:41:36,200 --> 00:41:40,440
Speaker 1: that a tripolar world is easier because you ever have

570
00:41:40,480 --> 00:41:46,239
Speaker 1: you ever played risk? Uh? Yeah, So in a tripolar

571
00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:54,320
Speaker 1: or a quad quadripolar world, Uh, it's alliances, My the

572
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:59,640
Speaker 1: the enemy, and my friend is my friend. It's a

573
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,480
Speaker 1: little different game. The question is how do you play

574
00:42:04,520 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: that game with Russia and China, especially with Russia being

575
00:42:08,719 --> 00:42:12,000
Speaker 1: crippled in terms of its ability to relate to the

576
00:42:12,040 --> 00:42:15,680
Speaker 1: Western world and China reaching out and saying it's okay,

577
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,640
Speaker 1: Well by everything you can dig out on the ground.

578
00:42:19,200 --> 00:42:22,839
Speaker 1: So how do you rally the American people? Well, I

579
00:42:22,840 --> 00:42:26,920
Speaker 1: guess I'm a bit of a patriot. I love my country.

580
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:29,799
Speaker 1: I'm willing to put my life down for it. I

581
00:42:29,840 --> 00:42:35,080
Speaker 1: took an oath to defend the Constitution. I don't believe

582
00:42:35,640 --> 00:42:40,640
Speaker 1: that it is a zero sum game, which I believe

583
00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:46,760
Speaker 1: Russia and China believe. I think everybody could get along

584
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:52,759
Speaker 1: just fine. The only problem is some people are just

585
00:42:53,040 --> 00:43:02,960
Speaker 1: nasty bastards. Putin is not Elon musk g is not

586
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:10,360
Speaker 1: New gig Rich. There's a very different world here, you know, Uh,

587
00:43:10,760 --> 00:43:17,920
Speaker 1: Putin is not Jack Kennedy. They look at things very differently,

588
00:43:17,960 --> 00:43:19,879
Speaker 1: and they look at it as a zero sum game,

589
00:43:21,239 --> 00:43:24,840
Speaker 1: as the Russians always are fond of saying their version

590
00:43:24,840 --> 00:43:27,359
Speaker 1: of negotiation and what's mine is mine and what's yours

591
00:43:27,480 --> 00:43:32,120
Speaker 1: is negotiable. That is really another definition of a zero

592
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:39,080
Speaker 1: sum game. So I'm answering your question with a question,

593
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:43,759
Speaker 1: how do you educate your population instill in them a

594
00:43:43,920 --> 00:43:51,040
Speaker 1: need and a desire to protect the tenants of democracy, which,

595
00:43:51,120 --> 00:43:55,880
Speaker 1: by the way, all the words used in Constitution, declaration

596
00:43:55,920 --> 00:44:00,480
Speaker 1: of Independence, bill of rights refer to the individual, whereas

597
00:44:00,480 --> 00:44:03,799
Speaker 1: in an autocracy it's the state. If you believe that

598
00:44:03,880 --> 00:44:10,840
Speaker 1: the individual above all, whether it's a religious um mandate,

599
00:44:11,640 --> 00:44:16,960
Speaker 1: all freedom is flow from God or whatever you're theological

600
00:44:17,040 --> 00:44:22,680
Speaker 1: or philosophical point of view may be, that the individual

601
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:27,840
Speaker 1: the importance and the existence of the individual, and the

602
00:44:27,920 --> 00:44:32,560
Speaker 1: right of the individual to be free, uh, and to

603
00:44:32,719 --> 00:44:39,160
Speaker 1: operate autonomous, autonomously in a system where people agree to

604
00:44:39,239 --> 00:44:42,279
Speaker 1: certain rules. If you think that's important, then that's what

605
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:45,960
Speaker 1: America is. Now. We can get into woke arguments about

606
00:44:46,320 --> 00:44:52,280
Speaker 1: who's doing what, etcetera. And yeah, nobody's perfect, My God, please,

607
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,760
Speaker 1: But why does everybody want to come to the United States?

608
00:44:59,440 --> 00:45:04,160
Speaker 1: Are there hundreds of thousands of people coming across the

609
00:45:04,200 --> 00:45:11,000
Speaker 1: borders of Russia, North Korea, Iran? I don't think so.

610
00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:15,440
Speaker 1: So there must be something about the United States the people.

611
00:45:15,800 --> 00:45:20,160
Speaker 1: It's philosophy, it's ideas, it's dreams, the way it looks

612
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:25,600
Speaker 1: at things that appeals to people deep down. And I'll

613
00:45:25,600 --> 00:45:30,680
Speaker 1: give you an example. Uh, when we were up on

614
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:36,760
Speaker 1: the Thai Burma border. This is about years ago. People

615
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,719
Speaker 1: we had brought with us copies of the Declaration of Independence,

616
00:45:40,719 --> 00:45:45,080
Speaker 1: the Bill of Rights, and the Constitution that we're translated

617
00:45:45,120 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 1: into different languages among Korenean Wah, the languages of the

618
00:45:51,200 --> 00:45:55,880
Speaker 1: border people's up in Burma and up on western Thailand.

619
00:45:56,920 --> 00:45:59,680
Speaker 1: People were coming through the jungle two miles to get

620
00:45:59,719 --> 00:46:05,000
Speaker 1: their ends on those documents. What does that mean? Why

621
00:46:05,040 --> 00:46:09,400
Speaker 1: would a piece of paper be that important? Well? What

622
00:46:09,480 --> 00:46:14,400
Speaker 1: does that piece of paper resent represent? So the answer

623
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:18,440
Speaker 1: to that, I believe is a dream that most everyone has.

624
00:46:19,239 --> 00:46:21,319
Speaker 1: I want to do what I need to do, I'd

625
00:46:21,360 --> 00:46:24,959
Speaker 1: like to do it in relative peace and tranquility. Raise

626
00:46:25,040 --> 00:46:31,520
Speaker 1: my children, pursue happiness. Let's see raising your children in

627
00:46:31,600 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 1: peace and tranquility and pursuing happiness. See much of that

628
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:43,879
Speaker 1: in Russia, Yeah, North Korea. The Yeah, well, and listen,

629
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:46,520
Speaker 1: I'm not trying to be a snot. I'm just saying

630
00:46:46,560 --> 00:46:50,440
Speaker 1: that that I think when maybe to use the words

631
00:46:50,520 --> 00:46:55,840
Speaker 1: that these truths we believe to be ourselves evident. Yeah, yeah,

632
00:46:56,360 --> 00:47:00,440
Speaker 1: so too. And I'm sorry it's it can be a

633
00:47:00,440 --> 00:47:03,360
Speaker 1: long time to get around to answering your question. But

634
00:47:03,480 --> 00:47:08,720
Speaker 1: the way that you bring together a group of people

635
00:47:08,920 --> 00:47:14,399
Speaker 1: is under a philosophy, and our philosophy, or our philosophy

636
00:47:14,440 --> 00:47:21,120
Speaker 1: in America is the philosophy of the individual subsumed. Uh,

637
00:47:21,280 --> 00:47:24,600
Speaker 1: where the state is subsumed to the individual, the individual

638
00:47:24,680 --> 00:47:28,040
Speaker 1: is more important than the state. Not in Russia, not

639
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,640
Speaker 1: in China, not in North Korea, not the wrong, not

640
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,680
Speaker 1: in any place I can think of other than the

641
00:47:33,680 --> 00:47:37,520
Speaker 1: Western world. Okay, just one question, uh, needle to say

642
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:42,040
Speaker 1: America is divided. One half of the population, maybe a

643
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,560
Speaker 1: little bit more than that, believes democracy is in danger

644
00:47:46,800 --> 00:47:51,000
Speaker 1: and autocracy is possible in the near future. Do you

645
00:47:51,080 --> 00:47:54,400
Speaker 1: believe that's a possibility. I believe it's a possibility, and

646
00:47:54,480 --> 00:48:01,600
Speaker 1: not necessarily because of present circumstances. I think and I've

647
00:48:01,600 --> 00:48:08,160
Speaker 1: gonna sound trite, but the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

648
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:15,760
Speaker 1: And I'm gonna roll off a couple of um um

649
00:48:16,000 --> 00:48:23,160
Speaker 1: sort of maybe tried phrases. Absolute power crops. Absolutely the

650
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:30,400
Speaker 1: whole idea of a democratic republic where the voice of

651
00:48:30,440 --> 00:48:35,200
Speaker 1: the people creates the government, was designed to try to

652
00:48:36,000 --> 00:48:42,680
Speaker 1: prevent that, again, the individual versus the state, because I

653
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:48,280
Speaker 1: see a greater reliance or a greater desire to rely

654
00:48:48,560 --> 00:48:52,800
Speaker 1: on the government as opposed to the individual for things

655
00:48:52,880 --> 00:48:58,719
Speaker 1: like food and clothing, the basic necessities of life. When

656
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: that manifests itself, there is a danger that people we'll

657
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:10,400
Speaker 1: give up their freedom of giving an example. Uh, And

658
00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:13,680
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take you back you're my age or around it.

659
00:49:14,000 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: I'm gonna go back to high school or in college.

660
00:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,720
Speaker 1: When you read The Brothers karamats Off and you read

661
00:49:19,719 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: the chapter called the Grand Inquisitor, when Alexei was basically

662
00:49:26,120 --> 00:49:31,760
Speaker 1: telling an allegory about how Jesus Christ came to a

663
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,319
Speaker 1: a town back in the ninth century and immediately was

664
00:49:36,440 --> 00:49:40,400
Speaker 1: arrested by the Grand Inquisitor and put in jail. And

665
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:44,080
Speaker 1: so there's seven or eight pages of a dialogue between

666
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:49,440
Speaker 1: Jesus Christ and the Grand Inquisitor Jesus Christ says, and

667
00:49:49,719 --> 00:49:52,440
Speaker 1: this is I'm not this is not theological, this is

668
00:49:52,520 --> 00:49:57,720
Speaker 1: just characters. Jesus Christ says. People want to be free,

669
00:49:58,560 --> 00:50:01,319
Speaker 1: they want to be able to operate, think freely, they

670
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:04,759
Speaker 1: want to exercise free will and all the things that

671
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:08,759
Speaker 1: were familiar with The Grand Inquisitor says, No, they want

672
00:50:08,800 --> 00:50:13,000
Speaker 1: three hots and a cot if they if I give

673
00:50:13,040 --> 00:50:17,279
Speaker 1: them what they need, they'll give up their freedoms. And

674
00:50:17,320 --> 00:50:20,279
Speaker 1: it was an interesting dialogue. And I would suggest that

675
00:50:20,440 --> 00:50:24,799
Speaker 1: anyone who would like to pursue the discussion that you

676
00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:29,680
Speaker 1: and I are having start with that. There are very

677
00:50:29,719 --> 00:50:35,280
Speaker 1: well um presented arguments on both sides. There are people

678
00:50:35,360 --> 00:50:40,560
Speaker 1: that will tell you that a democratic state that where

679
00:50:40,560 --> 00:50:46,600
Speaker 1: the individual is of of prime importance, will ultimately fail.

680
00:50:47,600 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: That's what the Chinese will tell you. The Chinese government

681
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:56,279
Speaker 1: will tell you that. I don't believe that, but I've

682
00:50:56,320 --> 00:51:02,200
Speaker 1: heard people make excellent arguments to the contrary. That democracy

683
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:07,280
Speaker 1: is a flawed Some people refer to the democratic process

684
00:51:07,360 --> 00:51:12,600
Speaker 1: as making sausage, which is never really a pretty process.

685
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:20,560
Speaker 1: But as Winston Churchill said, with his American mother, you

686
00:51:20,560 --> 00:51:23,560
Speaker 1: can always rely on America to do the right thing

687
00:51:24,120 --> 00:51:28,719
Speaker 1: after they've exhausted every other possibility. But he said it

688
00:51:28,760 --> 00:51:32,680
Speaker 1: with love. He did not say it to be nasty

689
00:51:33,200 --> 00:51:37,480
Speaker 1: or in any of a detrimental way. He believed that

690
00:51:37,600 --> 00:51:41,520
Speaker 1: even though the system was a little rough, that you

691
00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:51,160
Speaker 1: get ultimately you get what you need. Okay, let's do

692
00:51:51,200 --> 00:51:53,480
Speaker 1: a one eight here and go back to music. I

693
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:55,719
Speaker 1: could go on for hours about this, but people also

694
00:51:55,760 --> 00:51:58,520
Speaker 1: want to hear about your musical career. He referenced that

695
00:51:58,719 --> 00:52:04,080
Speaker 1: session in che Tago where the Stone leader passed out

696
00:52:04,480 --> 00:52:08,200
Speaker 1: staffs with nothing on them. Do you read music? I'm

697
00:52:08,239 --> 00:52:09,840
Speaker 1: not great at it. How did you learn how to

698
00:52:09,880 --> 00:52:13,040
Speaker 1: read music? I studied classical piano for eight years, and

699
00:52:13,080 --> 00:52:16,840
Speaker 1: then as I began to pursue a career in the

700
00:52:16,920 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: studio that's the studio musician, I began to study books

701
00:52:22,040 --> 00:52:27,560
Speaker 1: on reading music. And as my dad I used to say,

702
00:52:27,719 --> 00:52:32,160
Speaker 1: there's nothing like a hanging to focus your attention. Uh.

703
00:52:32,280 --> 00:52:34,120
Speaker 1: If you're in the studio and they put a piece

704
00:52:34,160 --> 00:52:36,960
Speaker 1: of music in front of you, you better be able

705
00:52:37,000 --> 00:52:40,000
Speaker 1: to read it or you're gonna learn real quick. Now.

706
00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:45,040
Speaker 1: Can I read music like Tommy Tedesco could? Or am

707
00:52:45,080 --> 00:52:48,239
Speaker 1: I reading like Tim may No? I'm not really great

708
00:52:48,280 --> 00:52:54,280
Speaker 1: at the fly ship, but I can certainly uh fulfill

709
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:58,880
Speaker 1: the session. As a matter of fact, I remember I

710
00:52:58,960 --> 00:53:01,480
Speaker 1: remember a session with David Campbell, and I'm trying to

711
00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,719
Speaker 1: remember who the artist was. This was like years ago

712
00:53:05,480 --> 00:53:11,359
Speaker 1: where there were twenty five sheets of music. It would

713
00:53:11,400 --> 00:53:14,000
Speaker 1: say they wanted to do was a movie soundtrack and

714
00:53:14,040 --> 00:53:16,920
Speaker 1: they wanted to do all the guitar overdubs in one past.

715
00:53:18,880 --> 00:53:23,839
Speaker 1: So I said, okay, I'm in. And what they did

716
00:53:23,960 --> 00:53:26,360
Speaker 1: is that they taped all the pieces of music to

717
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 1: get all the sheets of music they used about I

718
00:53:29,560 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 1: don't know sixteen seventeen eighteen music stands. Put me on

719
00:53:34,040 --> 00:53:38,680
Speaker 1: a chair with wheels, and David slowly wheeled me down,

720
00:53:39,840 --> 00:53:43,200
Speaker 1: pasted all the charts until I got to the end

721
00:53:43,280 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: of it and was just reading it as we go. So, yes,

722
00:53:47,800 --> 00:53:49,920
Speaker 1: I can read music. Okay, let's go to the beginning.

723
00:53:49,920 --> 00:53:52,319
Speaker 1: Where did you grow up? Till I was nine years old?

724
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,320
Speaker 1: I grew up in Washington, d C. What'd your parents

725
00:53:55,360 --> 00:53:57,759
Speaker 1: do for living there? Well, my mom was a housewife,

726
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,000
Speaker 1: a good one. And did you ever seen Madman? I

727
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:03,520
Speaker 1: haven't seen the whole series, but I've certainly seen it. Well,

728
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:07,320
Speaker 1: that was my dad. Don Draper with without without the issues.

729
00:54:07,880 --> 00:54:11,880
Speaker 1: He was uh senior vice president of J Walter Thompson,

730
00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:14,959
Speaker 1: the largest advertising agency in the world. How many kids

731
00:54:14,960 --> 00:54:16,880
Speaker 1: in the family. Just okay, So where do you go

732
00:54:16,920 --> 00:54:19,520
Speaker 1: when you're nine? We moved to Mexico City, where he

733
00:54:19,560 --> 00:54:23,799
Speaker 1: took over all of the Latin American branch of Jay

734
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,400
Speaker 1: Walter Thompson. So what was that like for you suddenly

735
00:54:26,480 --> 00:54:30,880
Speaker 1: being in Mexico? Awesome because here I am in a country.

736
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,960
Speaker 1: I've got a couple of bucks to put together, and

737
00:54:32,960 --> 00:54:34,759
Speaker 1: not wealthy, but I have a couple of bucks to

738
00:54:34,760 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: put together. I'm living a country which really has no rules.

739
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:43,120
Speaker 1: I can play strip bars and clubs. When I'm eleven twelve,

740
00:54:43,560 --> 00:54:46,279
Speaker 1: I could be in bands. I could do pretty much

741
00:54:46,320 --> 00:54:53,280
Speaker 1: whatever I want and also be exposed to a tremendous,

742
00:54:53,920 --> 00:54:58,680
Speaker 1: tremendously multifaceted and varied culture. It's a matter of fact,

743
00:54:59,160 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: I went to the America School for a year in

744
00:55:00,800 --> 00:55:03,560
Speaker 1: my dad's in no way, You're gonna go to the

745
00:55:03,560 --> 00:55:06,319
Speaker 1: British Academy run by the British Embassy because I wanted

746
00:55:06,320 --> 00:55:09,440
Speaker 1: you get an education. So one thing was interesting. You

747
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:15,440
Speaker 1: studied four languages, English, French, Spanish, and Latin, and people

748
00:55:17,120 --> 00:55:21,880
Speaker 1: mostly concentrated on French. I would say English was pretty

749
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:25,440
Speaker 1: close behind, but French at the time was the diplomatic language.

750
00:55:25,560 --> 00:55:35,200
Speaker 1: We're talking late fifties, early sixties. So the the multifaceted, multinational,

751
00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:41,719
Speaker 1: multicultural um melting pot that I was in was fascinating.

752
00:55:42,640 --> 00:55:45,400
Speaker 1: I really it was a It was a It was

753
00:55:45,440 --> 00:55:49,000
Speaker 1: a course in sociology that you would never be able

754
00:55:49,040 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: to take anywhere else unless you're living in a foreign country.

755
00:55:52,000 --> 00:55:53,799
Speaker 1: How long were you there about five years? Now you

756
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,160
Speaker 1: end up going at Taft. How does that happen? Well,

757
00:55:56,239 --> 00:55:59,320
Speaker 1: my dad, after sending me to the Gregates Academy, that

758
00:55:59,400 --> 00:56:03,040
Speaker 1: British embassy school, he said, now you're going to get

759
00:56:03,040 --> 00:56:08,120
Speaker 1: an even better education. Okay, you're gonna go to boarding

760
00:56:08,120 --> 00:56:12,919
Speaker 1: school in Connecticut. So we went to Chot and Hodgkins

761
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:16,560
Speaker 1: and Taft and Loomis and Kent, Phillips, Exeter and or

762
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:24,120
Speaker 1: you know the usual suspects. And my gut feeling told

763
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,160
Speaker 1: me that Taft was the place to go for a

764
00:56:27,200 --> 00:56:29,160
Speaker 1: couple of reasons. One there was a generalman there in

765
00:56:29,160 --> 00:56:37,320
Speaker 1: the name Mr Cunningham who somehow or other talking to him.

766
00:56:37,360 --> 00:56:40,640
Speaker 1: I felt that I could relate to what his vision

767
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:44,120
Speaker 1: of that place was, because after all, I mean, you're

768
00:56:44,120 --> 00:56:47,160
Speaker 1: gonna go from Mexico City, where you could drive a

769
00:56:47,160 --> 00:56:49,360
Speaker 1: car at twall by putting a hundred paste note in

770
00:56:49,360 --> 00:56:51,320
Speaker 1: your wallet, handing into the traffic cop and and go,

771
00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:53,560
Speaker 1: thank you very much. I have a great day to

772
00:56:53,680 --> 00:56:56,080
Speaker 1: go into an all boys boarding school meeting locked up

773
00:56:56,120 --> 00:56:59,600
Speaker 1: for three months, so you kind of have to figure out.

774
00:57:00,760 --> 00:57:02,439
Speaker 1: You want to make sure if you're gonna be there,

775
00:57:02,920 --> 00:57:05,520
Speaker 1: it's not gonna be too ugly. So the people that

776
00:57:05,560 --> 00:57:10,920
Speaker 1: I met there, and the especially Mr Cunningham, made me

777
00:57:10,960 --> 00:57:13,400
Speaker 1: feel like I would be at home there. And I

778
00:57:13,440 --> 00:57:20,840
Speaker 1: am extremely grateful to everyone who was a teacher, headmaster,

779
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:26,840
Speaker 1: anybody at TAFT, anybody ever came in contact with UM,

780
00:57:26,840 --> 00:57:32,280
Speaker 1: because the education I received there was incredible. When you

781
00:57:32,360 --> 00:57:35,600
Speaker 1: graduate from one of those schools, you've it's like graduating

782
00:57:36,240 --> 00:57:40,520
Speaker 1: after two years of college, and it's not teaching you

783
00:57:41,000 --> 00:57:45,200
Speaker 1: what to learn, it's teaching you how to learn. I

784
00:57:45,240 --> 00:57:52,920
Speaker 1: remember I remember my English teacher, Uh, great guy. He

785
00:57:53,000 --> 00:57:56,880
Speaker 1: was also by track coach. But we had to run

786
00:57:56,960 --> 00:58:00,880
Speaker 1: an essay on the Red Badge of Courage, so I

787
00:58:00,920 --> 00:58:03,800
Speaker 1: read it. I read the first page that I read

788
00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,560
Speaker 1: the last page. You know, I'm a little snot right.

789
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,400
Speaker 1: So I read that, of course, and I wrote this

790
00:58:09,480 --> 00:58:13,440
Speaker 1: paper about Okay, red Badge of Courage j C. The

791
00:58:13,520 --> 00:58:17,960
Speaker 1: initials Jim Conkin really mean send for Jesus Christ. The

792
00:58:18,040 --> 00:58:20,640
Speaker 1: sun hung in the sky like a red way. It's

793
00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:24,320
Speaker 1: obviously the sacrament. I just went off on all of

794
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:28,160
Speaker 1: this bullshit, handed it in and he called me in

795
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:31,000
Speaker 1: as a as a professor will do, and he says,

796
00:58:31,840 --> 00:58:38,720
Speaker 1: you wrote this. I said, yes, I did, and I said, okay,

797
00:58:39,160 --> 00:58:41,920
Speaker 1: it is the most incredible pile of ship I have

798
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:47,520
Speaker 1: ever read in my life. However, I'm gonna give you

799
00:58:47,600 --> 00:58:54,440
Speaker 1: an a once because it's an incredibly convincing pile of ship.

800
00:58:56,120 --> 00:59:01,640
Speaker 1: So I get. I used that to illustrate. It's not

801
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 1: just yeah I remember the Battle of Hastings ten sixty six, Yeah,

802
00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:08,640
Speaker 1: I remember. No, it's how do you learn? How do

803
00:59:08,680 --> 00:59:12,840
Speaker 1: you learn to survive? How do you learn to advance?

804
00:59:13,120 --> 00:59:16,440
Speaker 1: How do you learn to educate yourself? I am just

805
00:59:16,880 --> 00:59:20,720
Speaker 1: so lucky that I had that opportunity, and I was

806
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: still living in Mexico. I was commuting back and forth,

807
00:59:24,160 --> 00:59:26,840
Speaker 1: so I was going to New York City working in clubs.

808
00:59:26,840 --> 00:59:29,880
Speaker 1: They're working in music stores, you know, so it was

809
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:34,200
Speaker 1: pretty cool. Let's let's slow down a little bit here. Okay,

810
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:37,440
Speaker 1: when do you start taking classical piano? When I was five,

811
00:59:37,680 --> 00:59:40,080
Speaker 1: my mother taught me to read. It was an incredible gift.

812
00:59:40,320 --> 00:59:42,760
Speaker 1: And then my dad said, oh, so you could read,

813
00:59:43,280 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: and went yeah, like a little snot yeah, I could read.

814
00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,200
Speaker 1: I'm reading Huckleberry Fame with my mom. So he walks

815
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:50,560
Speaker 1: into the library, grabs a copy of The Gathering Storm

816
00:59:50,560 --> 00:59:53,240
Speaker 1: by Wisdom Churchill, drops into my lapse and read that

817
00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:55,920
Speaker 1: it took me three years to get through it. But

818
00:59:56,040 --> 01:00:00,080
Speaker 1: that's why WinCE Churchill happens to be a someone that

819
01:00:00,160 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: I respect. But yes, my mom taught me to read

820
01:00:02,960 --> 01:00:05,200
Speaker 1: when I was five, and we always had a piano.

821
01:00:05,280 --> 01:00:08,160
Speaker 1: She played piano and I would bang on the keys

822
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:10,440
Speaker 1: and I said, can I take pianolists? And she's sure?

823
01:00:10,840 --> 01:00:14,080
Speaker 1: And how did you become proficient in other instruments? When

824
01:00:14,120 --> 01:00:19,160
Speaker 1: we moved to Mexico, the guitar was kind of the

825
01:00:19,400 --> 01:00:24,080
Speaker 1: national instrument. Plus, my dad, who was not a musician,

826
01:00:24,360 --> 01:00:29,320
Speaker 1: had an incredibly deep record collection. A friend of his,

827
01:00:29,320 --> 01:00:31,320
Speaker 1: who was a disc jockey in Washington d seen him.

828
01:00:31,320 --> 01:00:35,800
Speaker 1: Al Ross would send him boxes full of records because

829
01:00:35,840 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: it was a jazz station and they didn't play a

830
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:41,640
Speaker 1: lot of other records and even some jazz. That's when

831
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,360
Speaker 1: I got turned onto the guitar player Howard Roberts, along

832
01:00:45,400 --> 01:00:47,280
Speaker 1: with West Montgomery and a bunch of other folks. But

833
01:00:48,120 --> 01:00:53,920
Speaker 1: so listening to my dad's records and then all of

834
01:00:53,960 --> 01:00:56,800
Speaker 1: a sudden, we're living in the rock and roll era,

835
01:00:57,440 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 1: where if you have a guitar and you know three chords,

836
01:01:00,880 --> 01:01:06,360
Speaker 1: you're happening. You can form a band. So my parents

837
01:01:06,560 --> 01:01:10,320
Speaker 1: gave me a guitar from my tenth birthday. I really

838
01:01:10,360 --> 01:01:15,840
Speaker 1: wanted a bicycle had pissed me off, so hung on

839
01:01:15,920 --> 01:01:18,520
Speaker 1: the wall for about six months. And then a friend

840
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:21,520
Speaker 1: of mine named Kurt Bundy, who lived in the apartment downstairs,

841
01:01:21,560 --> 01:01:26,280
Speaker 1: started taking guitar lessons. Has said, I'll teach you some

842
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:29,400
Speaker 1: chords so that I have somebody to play with. And

843
01:01:29,480 --> 01:01:34,800
Speaker 1: so I started playing, and I went, holy crap, this

844
01:01:34,920 --> 01:01:39,640
Speaker 1: is awesome. I mean, I just somehow or other, I

845
01:01:39,640 --> 01:01:42,440
Speaker 1: don't know, evoke in mind, meld, grocked it, whatever you know,

846
01:01:42,720 --> 01:01:45,240
Speaker 1: the term you want to use. I just fell in

847
01:01:45,280 --> 01:01:48,240
Speaker 1: love with it to the point where I had a

848
01:01:48,280 --> 01:01:51,200
Speaker 1: sixty point one great average because all I didn't was

849
01:01:51,240 --> 01:01:54,880
Speaker 1: play the guitar. But yeah, was that sixty capter in

850
01:01:54,960 --> 01:01:57,400
Speaker 1: Mexico pretty much the same everywhere. That's all I want

851
01:01:57,440 --> 01:02:00,240
Speaker 1: to do is play the guitar. Practiced eight hours a day.

852
01:02:00,240 --> 01:02:03,040
Speaker 1: So you say you were playing gigs at a young

853
01:02:03,120 --> 01:02:06,200
Speaker 1: age in Mexico, You're in the middle of Connecticut. You're

854
01:02:06,240 --> 01:02:09,000
Speaker 1: going to taft Are you playing in bands when you're

855
01:02:09,000 --> 01:02:11,240
Speaker 1: in high school? Oh? Yeah, I mean we made it

856
01:02:11,280 --> 01:02:14,000
Speaker 1: a great reputation by playing a rock version of the

857
01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:16,680
Speaker 1: school song and got any detention for three weeks, but

858
01:02:16,800 --> 01:02:20,000
Speaker 1: that established us as a rock band. The band that

859
01:02:20,040 --> 01:02:27,720
Speaker 1: we had a taft um And I remember after a

860
01:02:27,720 --> 01:02:31,160
Speaker 1: a visitation with a young lady from one of the

861
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:36,440
Speaker 1: boarding schools, Mr Douglas, who was the other assistant head master, said, Baxtor,

862
01:02:37,600 --> 01:02:40,320
Speaker 1: you're grounded and your band is not going to play

863
01:02:40,320 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: anymore gigs. Well, nobody would go to the school dances,

864
01:02:44,560 --> 01:02:47,720
Speaker 1: so he had to relent. So the power of music.

865
01:02:47,760 --> 01:02:51,880
Speaker 1: And then my senior year, Mr Oscarson, who was the

866
01:02:51,960 --> 01:02:58,440
Speaker 1: dean of students and a wonderful man, because there was

867
01:02:58,480 --> 01:03:01,280
Speaker 1: a group of us that were the trouble Acres, and

868
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:03,680
Speaker 1: so he figured it bring us all together into groups

869
01:03:03,720 --> 01:03:06,680
Speaker 1: who can keep an eye on us. And when we

870
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:12,320
Speaker 1: formed this band, uh, the other girls school started asking

871
01:03:12,360 --> 01:03:15,840
Speaker 1: if we would play you know, Dobb's Ferry or St.

872
01:03:15,840 --> 01:03:21,400
Speaker 1: Margaret's or Emma Willard or and so the dean said yeah,

873
01:03:21,480 --> 01:03:24,240
Speaker 1: and he started booking the bands. And we came from

874
01:03:24,280 --> 01:03:29,960
Speaker 1: ten and so one of our one of the people

875
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: that we knew in town became our sort of road

876
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:36,280
Speaker 1: guy and would take us to the shows. Mr Oskinson

877
01:03:36,360 --> 01:03:38,880
Speaker 1: would book the bands. And yeah, we were It was great.

878
01:03:39,240 --> 01:03:42,640
Speaker 1: It was really cool. I can't beat that. You know.

879
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:44,680
Speaker 1: How did you end up working at Manny? That's a

880
01:03:45,760 --> 01:03:50,240
Speaker 1: slight uh mimsing omer that I have to correct. I

881
01:03:50,360 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 1: started working at Jimmy's. Uh. Mannis was a big part

882
01:03:54,400 --> 01:03:58,040
Speaker 1: of my life because I worked on street at Jimmie's

883
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:01,680
Speaker 1: music shop and also ended up working at Dan Armstrong's

884
01:04:01,680 --> 01:04:04,960
Speaker 1: guitar shop. And when I was living in Mexico, Henry

885
01:04:05,080 --> 01:04:08,840
Speaker 1: Henry Goldrick, who was the guy that everybody knows when

886
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,760
Speaker 1: you walk into the door, say you got fifty signs

887
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:13,200
Speaker 1: you want to buy and get out of my store,

888
01:04:13,720 --> 01:04:17,200
Speaker 1: but you get forty offf and you walk in the door.

889
01:04:17,320 --> 01:04:19,720
Speaker 1: So Henry took a liking to me and kind of

890
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:22,200
Speaker 1: kept me under his wing. He was like my second dad,

891
01:04:22,480 --> 01:04:25,120
Speaker 1: very special man. But I work the way. Wait, you're

892
01:04:25,160 --> 01:04:28,280
Speaker 1: working at Jimmy's and Dan Armstrong, how do you ultimately

893
01:04:28,360 --> 01:04:31,439
Speaker 1: meet him? Well, because I started working at Jimmy's because

894
01:04:31,480 --> 01:04:34,600
Speaker 1: I was standing outside the music store and Frank Scuolachi

895
01:04:35,720 --> 01:04:40,080
Speaker 1: Jimmy Sculaschi, the Squashi brothers owned it. Um was trying

896
01:04:40,120 --> 01:04:46,400
Speaker 1: to uh interact with a customer who didn't speak English.

897
01:04:46,440 --> 01:04:50,240
Speaker 1: And as you know, if someone doesn't speak English and

898
01:04:50,440 --> 01:04:53,880
Speaker 1: the only language that you know, the first thing you

899
01:04:53,960 --> 01:04:58,040
Speaker 1: do is to talk louder and slower. So there's Jimmy

900
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:04,760
Speaker 1: going String's love Bell La Strings La Bella, and the

901
01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:07,400
Speaker 1: guys look at him like, okay, that's like when you

902
01:05:07,440 --> 01:05:11,360
Speaker 1: talk to a dog and they hear nip nip. So

903
01:05:12,960 --> 01:05:16,200
Speaker 1: I walked in and I translated for the gentleman, and

904
01:05:16,320 --> 01:05:19,640
Speaker 1: Jimmy said, you want a job. I said, yes, sir,

905
01:05:19,800 --> 01:05:23,800
Speaker 1: but I can only work on Christmas vacation, Easter vacation,

906
01:05:23,840 --> 01:05:26,160
Speaker 1: and in the summer because I go to I'm going

907
01:05:26,160 --> 01:05:29,640
Speaker 1: to school. He says, that's fine. So it was the

908
01:05:29,760 --> 01:05:34,800
Speaker 1: perfect job. So so I thought I was very happy

909
01:05:35,280 --> 01:05:39,000
Speaker 1: taking two Fender twin reaver rooms up six flights of

910
01:05:39,080 --> 01:05:41,120
Speaker 1: stairs in the middle of August for bucking a quarter

911
01:05:41,160 --> 01:05:44,560
Speaker 1: an hour. And I started because I had grown up

912
01:05:44,560 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: in Mexico and there was nobody to repair my guitars

913
01:05:47,600 --> 01:05:51,320
Speaker 1: or my amplifiers. I gained some fundamental knowledge in both

914
01:05:51,320 --> 01:05:58,280
Speaker 1: those areas and began repairing guitars at Jimmy's. And that's

915
01:05:58,280 --> 01:06:00,720
Speaker 1: when Dan Armstrong realized we're a noa trs coming out

916
01:06:00,720 --> 01:06:03,360
Speaker 1: of Jimmy's. So he said, I'll pay you five bucks

917
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:06,960
Speaker 1: an hour, which was all fortune in nine four to

918
01:06:07,040 --> 01:06:09,600
Speaker 1: come and work for me. But at six o'clock every

919
01:06:09,720 --> 01:06:15,120
Speaker 1: night they would basically close off. Now there was Terminal Music,

920
01:06:15,320 --> 01:06:24,520
Speaker 1: Ben's Music, UM, uh Manny's, uh Charles Ponty. There were

921
01:06:24,560 --> 01:06:27,200
Speaker 1: a number of music stores, but the deal was that

922
01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:32,320
Speaker 1: each music store could only have one franchise or other

923
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:37,360
Speaker 1: music stores cannot have uh dual franchisees. So at six

924
01:06:37,360 --> 01:06:40,440
Speaker 1: o'clock at night, myself and all the stock boys from

925
01:06:40,440 --> 01:06:44,959
Speaker 1: the different stores they would go okay. So Henry would

926
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,240
Speaker 1: come out and uh Billy would come down from Terminal

927
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,240
Speaker 1: and say, okay, I'll trade your two jazz masters at

928
01:06:51,240 --> 01:06:54,960
Speaker 1: a deluxe reverb for one Rickebacker uh twelve string it.

929
01:06:55,120 --> 01:06:57,760
Speaker 1: So anyway, that was all we were moving stuff all

930
01:06:57,840 --> 01:07:00,520
Speaker 1: over forty Street and then I met when I met

931
01:07:00,560 --> 01:07:03,440
Speaker 1: Henry because of that, he's still a liking to me

932
01:07:04,840 --> 01:07:08,040
Speaker 1: and we had become friends over the long term, and

933
01:07:08,080 --> 01:07:13,600
Speaker 1: we stayed friends way after you know, I left Taft

934
01:07:13,680 --> 01:07:16,919
Speaker 1: and way after until I became you know, even when

935
01:07:16,920 --> 01:07:24,320
Speaker 1: I became a successful musician. And I remember one day, Uh, Henry,

936
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:28,080
Speaker 1: he said, I walked into the store and typically Henry,

937
01:07:28,200 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: I made. I don't know if you knew Henry, but

938
01:07:30,640 --> 01:07:33,160
Speaker 1: certainly been to me and he's an interacting with him, right,

939
01:07:33,240 --> 01:07:37,840
Speaker 1: so you know, so I walk in and uh, I said, Henry,

940
01:07:37,840 --> 01:07:40,680
Speaker 1: you got anything new? And he says, God, damnit, skunk

941
01:07:41,000 --> 01:07:44,280
Speaker 1: you you could endorse anything you want. I here. So

942
01:07:44,360 --> 01:07:46,600
Speaker 1: he handed me an ovation in classgow guitar which I

943
01:07:46,680 --> 01:07:48,960
Speaker 1: used on the album, and said take this and get

944
01:07:49,000 --> 01:07:51,040
Speaker 1: out of my store. But you know, Henry was gruff.

945
01:07:51,240 --> 01:07:53,520
Speaker 1: I mean it was that was that was his personality.

946
01:07:53,920 --> 01:07:56,640
Speaker 1: So the next day I came back and I said,

947
01:07:57,280 --> 01:07:59,880
Speaker 1: can I talk to you? And he always had time

948
01:08:00,000 --> 01:08:02,160
Speaker 1: for me. So we went upstairs and they said, what's

949
01:08:02,200 --> 01:08:07,560
Speaker 1: on your mind. I said, I've been offered this incredible

950
01:08:07,640 --> 01:08:12,600
Speaker 1: opportunity to serve my country, but I'm taking a lot

951
01:08:12,640 --> 01:08:16,360
Speaker 1: of grief from a number of my colleagues in the

952
01:08:16,520 --> 01:08:23,519
Speaker 1: music business. And he said, screw them. Do you believe

953
01:08:23,520 --> 01:08:26,760
Speaker 1: in this? I said, yes, Sir, I really do. I

954
01:08:27,280 --> 01:08:31,639
Speaker 1: was brought up on my father UH fifty five years

955
01:08:31,640 --> 01:08:35,840
Speaker 1: active military, twenty years reserved. I was brought up to

956
01:08:35,960 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 1: believe in some of the things that we talked about.

957
01:08:39,200 --> 01:08:41,559
Speaker 1: He said, will you do it? You go do it,

958
01:08:42,280 --> 01:08:45,720
Speaker 1: and if anybody gives you any ship, you tell him

959
01:08:45,800 --> 01:08:49,160
Speaker 1: come talk to me. And I thought, my god, not

960
01:08:49,240 --> 01:08:52,519
Speaker 1: only did I had I always loved this man, but

961
01:08:54,200 --> 01:08:56,360
Speaker 1: now I know that I had done the right thing.

962
01:08:56,960 --> 01:08:58,960
Speaker 1: And here's a guy that most people think of, some

963
01:08:59,000 --> 01:09:01,400
Speaker 1: gruff guy's gotta hell at you, get you the hell

964
01:09:01,439 --> 01:09:03,320
Speaker 1: out of his store with a couple of Tony herbs

965
01:09:03,840 --> 01:09:07,479
Speaker 1: and UH an offender Strato Castle. So I was very

966
01:09:07,560 --> 01:09:11,280
Speaker 1: lucky to have him, Dan Armstrong, and even to the

967
01:09:11,360 --> 01:09:14,000
Speaker 1: point Frank and Jimmy who took me under their wing.

968
01:09:14,160 --> 01:09:18,600
Speaker 1: Good people, good people. Dan Armstrong became famous for the

969
01:09:18,680 --> 01:09:21,160
Speaker 1: loose sight guitar. What was Dan Armstrong doing in the

970
01:09:21,160 --> 01:09:26,120
Speaker 1: middle sixties, Danny had the only guitar customizing shop that

971
01:09:26,200 --> 01:09:30,080
Speaker 1: I knew of pretty much in the United States. You

972
01:09:30,160 --> 01:09:34,960
Speaker 1: could bring your instrument into into Danny's place and have

973
01:09:35,160 --> 01:09:40,320
Speaker 1: something done to it, like okay. Uh. We invented the

974
01:09:40,360 --> 01:09:43,080
Speaker 1: coil fader for instant the ability to split the coils,

975
01:09:43,080 --> 01:09:47,360
Speaker 1: and a humbucker. Um. We invented a number of different

976
01:09:48,360 --> 01:09:54,040
Speaker 1: ways to wire and rewire electric guitars to produce different sounds,

977
01:09:54,560 --> 01:09:59,719
Speaker 1: different tones. Um. We would take dan electro guitars, spend

978
01:09:59,720 --> 01:10:05,040
Speaker 1: a b to time on them and release them as hybrids. Uh.

979
01:10:05,240 --> 01:10:08,519
Speaker 1: Nobody else was doing that, And so every guitar player

980
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:14,360
Speaker 1: on the planet hung out at Danny's place. Bill Burkeo

981
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,759
Speaker 1: was building amps across the hall, Danny was repairing guitars,

982
01:10:18,400 --> 01:10:20,880
Speaker 1: and it was great. I mean, you'd walk in and

983
01:10:22,080 --> 01:10:25,360
Speaker 1: there would be five or six guys playing my job.

984
01:10:25,479 --> 01:10:29,599
Speaker 1: As a little snot nose kid, Danny said, here's this guitar.

985
01:10:29,640 --> 01:10:33,400
Speaker 1: It's got four regular strings and to bass strings. You

986
01:10:33,920 --> 01:10:36,880
Speaker 1: are going to learn the cop chords and basslines at

987
01:10:36,880 --> 01:10:38,760
Speaker 1: the same time, and I'm gonna teach you how to

988
01:10:38,800 --> 01:10:42,120
Speaker 1: do it. Because me and Sam Brown and Eddie Deal

989
01:10:42,360 --> 01:10:46,720
Speaker 1: and all the seriously frightening bebop guitar players who were

990
01:10:46,760 --> 01:10:49,519
Speaker 1: hanging around at that place wanted somebody to accompany them

991
01:10:49,520 --> 01:10:52,480
Speaker 1: all the time. So okay, that was my first education

992
01:10:52,800 --> 01:10:56,120
Speaker 1: in a very different kind of guitar playing. Um, and

993
01:10:56,160 --> 01:10:58,160
Speaker 1: I'll tell you another great story, if you got a

994
01:10:58,200 --> 01:11:04,920
Speaker 1: minute under a Stegovia comes in his ramires Is. He's

995
01:11:04,960 --> 01:11:08,360
Speaker 1: broken one of the tuning pigs on one side of them,

996
01:11:08,560 --> 01:11:10,800
Speaker 1: and you have as you know, they're come in three.

997
01:11:10,880 --> 01:11:14,200
Speaker 1: So they really couldn't repair an at concert that night,

998
01:11:14,520 --> 01:11:17,560
Speaker 1: so he brought it in. So I ran across the

999
01:11:17,560 --> 01:11:21,639
Speaker 1: streets to Charles Ponti, who was also a music store,

1000
01:11:21,640 --> 01:11:24,480
Speaker 1: but he was a violin and cello repair a guy,

1001
01:11:24,640 --> 01:11:26,599
Speaker 1: and so I was hoping against hope that he would

1002
01:11:26,640 --> 01:11:31,360
Speaker 1: have a set of classical guitar machines. And he did. Uh.

1003
01:11:31,400 --> 01:11:34,720
Speaker 1: So I bought him, brought him back over, installed him

1004
01:11:34,760 --> 01:11:39,000
Speaker 1: on this Ramires, strung it up, tuned it up, walked out,

1005
01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:43,400
Speaker 1: and Mr Segovi was sitting patiently on the sofa. Meanwhile,

1006
01:11:43,520 --> 01:11:46,280
Speaker 1: Mike Bluefield and Frank Zappa and a bunch of other

1007
01:11:46,320 --> 01:11:49,320
Speaker 1: guys were all standing around a couple of amplifiers hang

1008
01:11:49,360 --> 01:11:53,120
Speaker 1: out playing rock and just having a great time. And

1009
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:56,400
Speaker 1: you know, I saw this on a footlook of serenity

1010
01:11:56,400 --> 01:11:59,479
Speaker 1: on on Andrews to go his face. I walked over

1011
01:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,120
Speaker 1: and said, in Spanish, here's your instrument, sir uh, let

1012
01:12:04,120 --> 01:12:06,679
Speaker 1: me know if this is to your liking, and because

1013
01:12:06,720 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: I had a tremendous amount of respect for this guy,

1014
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,840
Speaker 1: and tell me what you think. I said, guys, stand

1015
01:12:11,880 --> 01:12:14,840
Speaker 1: by for one second. Just as a gentleman can make

1016
01:12:14,880 --> 01:12:17,880
Speaker 1: sure his guitar is working, so he tunes it up.

1017
01:12:18,640 --> 01:12:21,640
Speaker 1: He plays the first sixty four bars of the concerto

1018
01:12:21,800 --> 01:12:26,880
Speaker 1: that on Quest by Rodrigo and I'm losing it. I

1019
01:12:26,960 --> 01:12:31,600
Speaker 1: just can't, I mean, and the way he plays the

1020
01:12:31,960 --> 01:12:35,439
Speaker 1: emotion anyway, it was. It was an incredible moment in

1021
01:12:35,520 --> 01:12:39,880
Speaker 1: my life. And even the other players were just transfixed.

1022
01:12:40,720 --> 01:12:43,240
Speaker 1: And then in Spanish you said, you tell those people

1023
01:12:44,120 --> 01:12:46,000
Speaker 1: that you don't hang it around your neck like a

1024
01:12:46,040 --> 01:12:50,599
Speaker 1: canoe paddle. You sit down, behold it against your body

1025
01:12:50,920 --> 01:12:58,559
Speaker 1: because it is a part of you. It feeded through

1026
01:12:59,800 --> 01:13:04,639
Speaker 1: Its connected to your spirit and your mind and your heart. Yep,

1027
01:13:05,400 --> 01:13:08,760
Speaker 1: that's what I do. That makes perfect sense to me. Now.

1028
01:13:08,760 --> 01:13:11,320
Speaker 1: There were times when I leaped around stage, but ultimately

1029
01:13:11,360 --> 01:13:13,560
Speaker 1: I ended up being a sit down guitar player and

1030
01:13:13,680 --> 01:13:16,800
Speaker 1: BB King. One time he said to me, Jesus kunk

1031
01:13:17,120 --> 01:13:19,320
Speaker 1: if I after hear one of his knees had a

1032
01:13:19,400 --> 01:13:22,000
Speaker 1: knee operation, that if I had only known, I used

1033
01:13:22,080 --> 01:13:23,639
Speaker 1: to see you sit down and play all the time.

1034
01:13:23,760 --> 01:13:25,280
Speaker 1: If I had known, I would have done this since

1035
01:13:25,320 --> 01:13:28,920
Speaker 1: the day I was born. So anyway, it was a

1036
01:13:28,960 --> 01:13:33,040
Speaker 1: wonderful experience working at Danny's, being on Street which is

1037
01:13:33,080 --> 01:13:37,920
Speaker 1: now all disappeared, it's all gone. It was a unique

1038
01:13:37,920 --> 01:13:50,240
Speaker 1: place in the world. Okay, you're there when the Beatles arrived,

1039
01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,879
Speaker 1: what was your experience and was that positive or negative?

1040
01:13:54,400 --> 01:13:57,479
Speaker 1: I would say it was all positive because along with

1041
01:13:57,560 --> 01:14:03,760
Speaker 1: the Beatles came some really amazing bands that I thought

1042
01:14:03,800 --> 01:14:11,000
Speaker 1: were amazing. The yard Birds, the Kicks. I thought Village Village,

1043
01:14:11,040 --> 01:14:13,599
Speaker 1: Green Preservation Society was one of the greatest records I've

1044
01:14:13,600 --> 01:14:16,240
Speaker 1: ever heard in my life. It's like pat sounds. The

1045
01:14:16,320 --> 01:14:21,920
Speaker 1: Yardbirds were playing music with incredible guitar players playing writing

1046
01:14:21,960 --> 01:14:26,679
Speaker 1: songs that had time changes, key changes, field groove changes.

1047
01:14:27,640 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: That was amazing. So I thought number one, it was

1048
01:14:32,240 --> 01:14:38,920
Speaker 1: a wonderful thing. Number two and I have no um

1049
01:14:39,160 --> 01:14:43,320
Speaker 1: I never want to speak ill of pop pop pop music,

1050
01:14:43,640 --> 01:14:47,880
Speaker 1: pop pop pop pop pop music, which Jerry Lee Lewis

1051
01:14:47,960 --> 01:14:50,040
Speaker 1: used to refer to as the Bobbies. To all these

1052
01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:53,000
Speaker 1: Bobbies Bobby b Bobby Bobby right al Bobby Bobby Bobby

1053
01:14:53,960 --> 01:15:02,400
Speaker 1: um and used to make them crazy. Uh, the bridge said, hey,

1054
01:15:02,520 --> 01:15:05,400
Speaker 1: have you ever heard Lightning Hopkins? Have you ever heard

1055
01:15:05,400 --> 01:15:08,880
Speaker 1: Buddy Waters? And for many people, they've never heard of that.

1056
01:15:09,640 --> 01:15:14,160
Speaker 1: So I believe they they gave America an education into

1057
01:15:14,160 --> 01:15:18,559
Speaker 1: its roots music. So I thought it was fantastic, right,

1058
01:15:19,720 --> 01:15:22,640
Speaker 1: no problem at all. Okay, you're working at Dan Armstrong's.

1059
01:15:22,640 --> 01:15:29,240
Speaker 1: You reference Bloomfield, Zappa Yardbirds back in page Other than yourself,

1060
01:15:29,600 --> 01:15:32,080
Speaker 1: who do you admire? Who's at the top of that pile?

1061
01:15:32,200 --> 01:15:34,040
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's a it's a tough question. But

1062
01:15:34,160 --> 01:15:39,080
Speaker 1: do I what's my favorite airplane? Well, that's my favorite

1063
01:15:39,120 --> 01:15:43,120
Speaker 1: fire plane. Well it depends on the mission. Um, it

1064
01:15:43,240 --> 01:15:50,360
Speaker 1: was my favorite guitar player, I would say, Um. Probably

1065
01:15:51,040 --> 01:15:56,200
Speaker 1: overall for creativity would be Jeff Beck. You never know

1066
01:15:56,280 --> 01:15:58,559
Speaker 1: where he's going. There's you never know what that. There

1067
01:15:58,600 --> 01:16:01,559
Speaker 1: are other people who were in and lameless who are

1068
01:16:01,680 --> 01:16:05,559
Speaker 1: masters of the obvious. Jeff Beck is not one of those.

1069
01:16:07,600 --> 01:16:12,639
Speaker 1: Another guitar player I discovered playing in uh a little

1070
01:16:12,680 --> 01:16:15,800
Speaker 1: club in Austin and sort of brought him to l A.

1071
01:16:16,160 --> 01:16:23,400
Speaker 1: Was Eric Johnson. Wonderful guitar player, wonderful player, and again

1072
01:16:24,520 --> 01:16:28,880
Speaker 1: not a master of the obvious melodic. That's one of

1073
01:16:28,920 --> 01:16:31,519
Speaker 1: the reasons why I loved the Ventures so much, and

1074
01:16:31,640 --> 01:16:33,360
Speaker 1: I joined their fan club when I was eleven years

1075
01:16:33,400 --> 01:16:35,400
Speaker 1: old and then ended up finally playing with him and

1076
01:16:35,479 --> 01:16:41,080
Speaker 1: producing him and melody. Hey, guys, what a concept. There's

1077
01:16:41,160 --> 01:16:46,400
Speaker 1: a melody. Let's play the melody. So people who grow

1078
01:16:46,560 --> 01:16:48,599
Speaker 1: up and there is not a guitar player that I've

1079
01:16:48,640 --> 01:16:51,639
Speaker 1: ever met who doesn't have a tremendous amount of love

1080
01:16:52,080 --> 01:16:56,960
Speaker 1: or at least respect for the Ventures because of that. Um,

1081
01:16:57,840 --> 01:17:01,320
Speaker 1: guys like Eric Johnson are so lodic. So it's Jeff Beck.

1082
01:17:02,120 --> 01:17:06,280
Speaker 1: They're they're melody guys, and I that's hopefully what I

1083
01:17:06,400 --> 01:17:13,280
Speaker 1: aspire to is melodies, compositions within compositions. Now, Jeff Beck, please,

1084
01:17:13,360 --> 01:17:16,240
Speaker 1: without a pick, what's your take on that? If he

1085
01:17:16,320 --> 01:17:22,200
Speaker 1: wants to play with his nose? Um, there were outside

1086
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,720
Speaker 1: of the National Cathedral in Mexico City when I was

1087
01:17:25,800 --> 01:17:29,479
Speaker 1: a kid, there was a guitar player with no arms

1088
01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:34,200
Speaker 1: who played with his feet and he played pretty well.

1089
01:17:35,479 --> 01:17:41,920
Speaker 1: So I guess I I see no efficacy and being

1090
01:17:42,040 --> 01:17:46,160
Speaker 1: judgmental in terms of how one approaches the instrument. Okay,

1091
01:17:46,240 --> 01:17:49,479
Speaker 1: so you're in TAFT, you graduate, you end up going

1092
01:17:49,560 --> 01:17:51,080
Speaker 1: to be you? How do you end up going to

1093
01:17:51,160 --> 01:17:53,720
Speaker 1: Boston University? I wanted to go to the School of

1094
01:17:53,760 --> 01:17:58,880
Speaker 1: Public Communications. Uh, kind of following my dad's footsteps on

1095
01:17:59,040 --> 01:18:06,280
Speaker 1: some level, um, and ended up at BU, at the

1096
01:18:06,320 --> 01:18:09,000
Speaker 1: School of Public In the case, now, did you graduate

1097
01:18:09,080 --> 01:18:12,240
Speaker 1: from BU? No? I joined a rock and roll band. Well,

1098
01:18:12,400 --> 01:18:15,240
Speaker 1: I joined the Ultimate Spinish. Although I was playing bass

1099
01:18:15,320 --> 01:18:18,360
Speaker 1: for Tim Buckley and playing gigs around town, doing a

1100
01:18:18,439 --> 01:18:22,240
Speaker 1: lot of work at a place called Natural Sound, which

1101
01:18:22,320 --> 01:18:25,160
Speaker 1: was all country music, and I was playing in the

1102
01:18:25,240 --> 01:18:30,080
Speaker 1: combat zone either at the at the Intermission Lounge, which

1103
01:18:30,360 --> 01:18:33,000
Speaker 1: if you ever saw the Blues Brothers, you know about

1104
01:18:33,080 --> 01:18:35,240
Speaker 1: chicken wire and all that kind of stuff. And then

1105
01:18:35,280 --> 01:18:38,000
Speaker 1: there was the Crazy Horse was just right next to it,

1106
01:18:38,320 --> 01:18:40,640
Speaker 1: and I was just learning to play pedal steel, and

1107
01:18:40,720 --> 01:18:42,679
Speaker 1: I was I love country music. Again. It was playing

1108
01:18:42,680 --> 01:18:46,280
Speaker 1: a lot of the country and so for that I

1109
01:18:46,400 --> 01:18:49,479
Speaker 1: started doing gigs and I realized I can make I

1110
01:18:49,520 --> 01:18:51,840
Speaker 1: can make a lot of money and do what I

1111
01:18:51,880 --> 01:18:56,120
Speaker 1: wanted to do, or wait four years and I just didn't.

1112
01:18:56,360 --> 01:18:58,599
Speaker 1: I didn't want didn't wait. I don't want to wait.

1113
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:00,240
Speaker 1: So how long did you go to be you? And

1114
01:19:00,360 --> 01:19:02,760
Speaker 1: what'd your father say when you dropped out? I went

1115
01:19:02,880 --> 01:19:08,519
Speaker 1: for a year. My mother was apoplectic, and my father,

1116
01:19:09,800 --> 01:19:13,400
Speaker 1: who as any good father would do, had planned out

1117
01:19:13,479 --> 01:19:16,439
Speaker 1: my life for me if I wanted it, to graduate

1118
01:19:16,479 --> 01:19:20,679
Speaker 1: from Boston University, to become a junior vice president in Kodak.

1119
01:19:20,880 --> 01:19:23,960
Speaker 1: You moved to Rochester, You work your way through the corporation.

1120
01:19:24,560 --> 01:19:26,840
Speaker 1: You probably do thirty years and end up as a

1121
01:19:26,880 --> 01:19:31,920
Speaker 1: senior executive vice president. You retire um which if you

1122
01:19:32,520 --> 01:19:35,880
Speaker 1: in my mind, that was beautiful that my father would

1123
01:19:35,920 --> 01:19:39,560
Speaker 1: care enough about me to try to do something like that.

1124
01:19:40,240 --> 01:19:43,240
Speaker 1: It's just incredible. I didn't resent it, far from it,

1125
01:19:44,120 --> 01:19:47,479
Speaker 1: But like every other snot nose kids with a guitar,

1126
01:19:48,520 --> 01:19:53,000
Speaker 1: I ended up playing in bands, making no money, you know,

1127
01:19:53,240 --> 01:19:58,080
Speaker 1: basically you know the drill. And my father, although he

1128
01:19:58,200 --> 01:20:03,479
Speaker 1: was supportive, there are times when he was disappointed. And

1129
01:20:03,560 --> 01:20:08,280
Speaker 1: of course my mother, well, my god, if uh you know,

1130
01:20:08,880 --> 01:20:10,880
Speaker 1: how what could she tell them the ladies at the

1131
01:20:10,920 --> 01:20:13,479
Speaker 1: country club? You know what the son wasn't doing anything.

1132
01:20:14,160 --> 01:20:16,920
Speaker 1: He's playing in bands. My mother came down to the

1133
01:20:17,000 --> 01:20:18,920
Speaker 1: village to see us playing one of the clubs down there.

1134
01:20:19,000 --> 01:20:21,640
Speaker 1: She walked down the middle of the street. She was

1135
01:20:21,840 --> 01:20:27,440
Speaker 1: kind of afraid to be too close to the the clientele.

1136
01:20:28,479 --> 01:20:31,240
Speaker 1: So and I get it. You know, this is not

1137
01:20:31,360 --> 01:20:33,920
Speaker 1: putting my mother down. She was scared, she didn't. I mean,

1138
01:20:34,120 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 1: come on, let's face it, walking down Bleaker Street in

1139
01:20:37,760 --> 01:20:43,040
Speaker 1: nineteen are you kidding me? It's like the Star Wars

1140
01:20:43,160 --> 01:20:48,760
Speaker 1: bar so. So were they supported financially and did they

1141
01:20:48,840 --> 01:20:51,760
Speaker 1: ever get it? I never really had to rely on

1142
01:20:51,880 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: them financially, And even when I was working in in

1143
01:20:56,800 --> 01:20:59,200
Speaker 1: uh during the time I was going to TAFT, I

1144
01:20:59,280 --> 01:21:03,519
Speaker 1: gave everything I made to them. It just made sense

1145
01:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,840
Speaker 1: to me, and they would give me an allowance. But

1146
01:21:07,040 --> 01:21:11,519
Speaker 1: I thought, okay, you know whatever, my however, my work

1147
01:21:11,600 --> 01:21:15,760
Speaker 1: ethic was, that's what made perfect sense to me. I

1148
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:20,680
Speaker 1: live here, I should help support I'm making money. Hey,

1149
01:21:20,720 --> 01:21:23,120
Speaker 1: I'm making a buck on a quarter an hour for

1150
01:21:23,280 --> 01:21:27,600
Speaker 1: eight hours a day in nineteen sixty not that so

1151
01:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,559
Speaker 1: Boston is a provincial town, not that there isn't a scene.

1152
01:21:32,840 --> 01:21:34,840
Speaker 1: How long you in Boston and when and how to

1153
01:21:34,920 --> 01:21:39,800
Speaker 1: decide to leave. I'm in Boston obviously from seven and

1154
01:21:39,920 --> 01:21:49,200
Speaker 1: sixty eight to go to Boston University UM, and then

1155
01:21:49,280 --> 01:21:51,960
Speaker 1: I stayed for about another two or three years. I

1156
01:21:52,120 --> 01:21:55,280
Speaker 1: was doing session work in Boston. I had a guitar

1157
01:21:55,400 --> 01:22:00,240
Speaker 1: shop with Dave Schuckter. We were building and repairing guitars. UM.

1158
01:22:00,520 --> 01:22:02,840
Speaker 1: I was commuting to New York to do sessions down

1159
01:22:03,000 --> 01:22:05,920
Speaker 1: in New York as well. Uh, there was a fair

1160
01:22:05,920 --> 01:22:09,000
Speaker 1: amount of working in Boston. Wasn't huge, but it was

1161
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:11,360
Speaker 1: a fair amount. And I had already had friends in

1162
01:22:11,400 --> 01:22:13,720
Speaker 1: the session scene in New York, so that worked out

1163
01:22:14,680 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 1: UM pretty well. UM. And around nineteen seventy I was

1164
01:22:26,479 --> 01:22:29,639
Speaker 1: working in the intermediate sound and there was a band

1165
01:22:29,800 --> 01:22:34,360
Speaker 1: called The Beat Game and they were being produced by

1166
01:22:34,400 --> 01:22:39,000
Speaker 1: a gentleman named Gary Katz, and these guys were all friends.

1167
01:22:40,080 --> 01:22:44,240
Speaker 1: And there were different bands coming into intermedia, and there

1168
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:47,160
Speaker 1: was never really anything like a house guitar player or

1169
01:22:47,160 --> 01:22:50,400
Speaker 1: a house piano player, but there were always bands that

1170
01:22:50,520 --> 01:22:54,120
Speaker 1: needed players. So there were many instances where bands would

1171
01:22:54,120 --> 01:22:56,080
Speaker 1: come in and say we need guitar player, or we

1172
01:22:56,200 --> 01:23:00,280
Speaker 1: need guitar on this or something. So UM, there was

1173
01:23:00,400 --> 01:23:03,280
Speaker 1: something that had to do with the beat game. I

1174
01:23:03,400 --> 01:23:06,240
Speaker 1: think it was playing acoustic guitar while the other guitar

1175
01:23:06,320 --> 01:23:08,519
Speaker 1: player was a great guitar player. Was they need an

1176
01:23:08,520 --> 01:23:11,479
Speaker 1: acoustic in the track. And that's why I met Gary

1177
01:23:11,560 --> 01:23:17,040
Speaker 1: Katz and Gary said, I have a production project in

1178
01:23:17,120 --> 01:23:22,479
Speaker 1: New York with a woman named Linda Hoover I think

1179
01:23:22,520 --> 01:23:24,680
Speaker 1: that was your stage named Linda Willingham, I think was

1180
01:23:24,720 --> 01:23:28,280
Speaker 1: a regular name. And there are these two songwriters who

1181
01:23:28,320 --> 01:23:31,599
Speaker 1: are writing all the material for the album called Walter

1182
01:23:31,760 --> 01:23:35,000
Speaker 1: Becker and Donald Fagan. Would you be willing to come

1183
01:23:35,080 --> 01:23:40,519
Speaker 1: down and play on this project? I said, yeah, sure,

1184
01:23:41,280 --> 01:23:43,200
Speaker 1: you know I'm a sense of artist. Where's the chuck?

1185
01:23:43,720 --> 01:23:47,600
Speaker 1: So yeah, I got on train, went down there and

1186
01:23:48,200 --> 01:23:51,240
Speaker 1: did the project, and I was really impressed with the music,

1187
01:23:52,439 --> 01:23:56,160
Speaker 1: and I said, you know, this songwriting is really spectacular,

1188
01:23:56,320 --> 01:23:58,680
Speaker 1: at least I think. And I said, well, we've never

1189
01:23:58,880 --> 01:24:02,439
Speaker 1: heard anybody play gus are like you do, especially on

1190
01:24:02,520 --> 01:24:05,400
Speaker 1: our music. So maybe what we ought to do is

1191
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:11,960
Speaker 1: whoever whoever passes go first, call everybody else up and

1192
01:24:12,040 --> 01:24:16,479
Speaker 1: we'll form a band. And so Becker and Fagan came

1193
01:24:16,479 --> 01:24:21,879
Speaker 1: out to Los Angeles, got a publishing deal with ABC Records,

1194
01:24:23,520 --> 01:24:28,320
Speaker 1: and then said to everybody Okay, we've passed. Go does

1195
01:24:28,360 --> 01:24:32,160
Speaker 1: everybody go to l A? Okay? So we all went

1196
01:24:32,200 --> 01:24:36,880
Speaker 1: to Los Angeles. Um I found various jobs playing around

1197
01:24:37,040 --> 01:24:40,280
Speaker 1: Los Angeles. I was a guitar repairman, so I met

1198
01:24:40,320 --> 01:24:43,040
Speaker 1: every guitar player in the substance scene, everybody in l A.

1199
01:24:43,960 --> 01:24:46,360
Speaker 1: I ended up playing a lot of the Palomino Club,

1200
01:24:46,520 --> 01:24:49,160
Speaker 1: the Playtime, and a lot of the country bars around

1201
01:24:49,240 --> 01:24:56,080
Speaker 1: town playing pedal steel dough bro guitar. And one day

1202
01:24:56,240 --> 01:25:01,000
Speaker 1: we were rehearsing in the office of the president of

1203
01:25:01,080 --> 01:25:07,479
Speaker 1: ABC Records, um uh, Hard Stark and Jay Lasker, and

1204
01:25:07,640 --> 01:25:10,680
Speaker 1: usually we would break the gear down in time when

1205
01:25:10,760 --> 01:25:13,560
Speaker 1: they were before they show up in the morning. We

1206
01:25:13,640 --> 01:25:17,760
Speaker 1: stay up all night. One night we cut we didn't

1207
01:25:17,800 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 1: get out of there in time, and Jacobs say says,

1208
01:25:20,960 --> 01:25:25,800
Speaker 1: what the hell is this? And Gary Katz says, well,

1209
01:25:27,120 --> 01:25:33,200
Speaker 1: there's this band and they're playing in the material of

1210
01:25:33,360 --> 01:25:38,360
Speaker 1: the guys that you signed to a publishing deal. I said, well,

1211
01:25:38,400 --> 01:25:42,160
Speaker 1: all right, then I want to hear it. Jay was

1212
01:25:42,240 --> 01:25:47,280
Speaker 1: one of those record guy record record guys, and so

1213
01:25:47,520 --> 01:25:50,280
Speaker 1: we played for him and he went, I don't know

1214
01:25:50,400 --> 01:25:54,080
Speaker 1: what the hell you guys are doing. I mean, because

1215
01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:58,560
Speaker 1: we had slags like dr Udu's proto man. But I

1216
01:25:58,720 --> 01:26:02,920
Speaker 1: think I like it. Okay, I'll give you a record deal.

1217
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:06,320
Speaker 1: And then Howard Start wrote me a check for a

1218
01:26:06,400 --> 01:26:12,920
Speaker 1: thousand dollars, said, skunk, go get an apartment, bring your

1219
01:26:13,000 --> 01:26:15,320
Speaker 1: girlfriend out, put somebody in the bank, and I went,

1220
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:20,599
Speaker 1: holy crop, Yeah, thank you, this is great. I mean

1221
01:26:20,680 --> 01:26:22,840
Speaker 1: I made money with Ultimate Spinach and said, but this

1222
01:26:23,040 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 1: was like the real deal. And that's kind of how

1223
01:26:26,400 --> 01:26:29,799
Speaker 1: it all started. You know, let's go back a chapter.

1224
01:26:30,080 --> 01:26:33,600
Speaker 1: You talked to the advent of wanting to be the

1225
01:26:33,960 --> 01:26:37,840
Speaker 1: number one studio cat. So at this point in time,

1226
01:26:37,960 --> 01:26:40,360
Speaker 1: do you want it to be first call? There's a

1227
01:26:40,400 --> 01:26:42,720
Speaker 1: lot of guys, not a lot, but yes, I don't

1228
01:26:42,720 --> 01:26:45,720
Speaker 1: want to sound like a complete dipshit. No, okay, you

1229
01:26:45,800 --> 01:26:47,720
Speaker 1: wanted to be first call. So did you want to

1230
01:26:47,760 --> 01:26:49,920
Speaker 1: be a studio rat or did you want to be

1231
01:26:50,000 --> 01:26:53,360
Speaker 1: in a band? And when you were a studio rap

1232
01:26:53,479 --> 01:26:55,920
Speaker 1: before you in a band, how did you get all

1233
01:26:56,000 --> 01:26:58,960
Speaker 1: these gigs? Well, you got the gigs by other people,

1234
01:26:59,760 --> 01:27:04,800
Speaker 1: uh recommending it. That's always how the studio was. Yeah,

1235
01:27:04,840 --> 01:27:07,439
Speaker 1: but I know a lot of musicians, they're usually working

1236
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,519
Speaker 1: it too well, of course, So were you good at

1237
01:27:09,600 --> 01:27:12,960
Speaker 1: working it. It must have been. I mean, of somebody,

1238
01:27:13,000 --> 01:27:17,880
Speaker 1: would I would I go the extra mile? Sure? Would I?

1239
01:27:18,720 --> 01:27:22,559
Speaker 1: Um work a little harder? Um? Would I say, hey,

1240
01:27:22,640 --> 01:27:25,360
Speaker 1: can you make me a cassette? And I'm going to

1241
01:27:25,439 --> 01:27:27,360
Speaker 1: go home and shed on this and I'll come back

1242
01:27:27,400 --> 01:27:31,920
Speaker 1: in the morning and I'll nail it. You know again.

1243
01:27:32,000 --> 01:27:36,760
Speaker 1: My dad always said, give a little more, it'll come back. Um.

1244
01:27:37,000 --> 01:27:39,960
Speaker 1: So that's kind of, I guess, kind of the way

1245
01:27:40,000 --> 01:27:43,200
Speaker 1: it was. I wanted to be a studio musician because

1246
01:27:43,280 --> 01:27:46,439
Speaker 1: I felt that it was the top gun of the

1247
01:27:46,560 --> 01:27:52,560
Speaker 1: music business. I like the idea of taking pride in

1248
01:27:52,680 --> 01:27:56,960
Speaker 1: being a craftsman because I built guitars too, and I

1249
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:59,680
Speaker 1: worked with wood when I was a kid, especially in

1250
01:27:59,760 --> 01:28:04,080
Speaker 1: mex Ico. The idea of to me playing the guitar

1251
01:28:05,040 --> 01:28:08,080
Speaker 1: was a craft. I'm not bluewing it. I mean, it's

1252
01:28:08,120 --> 01:28:10,360
Speaker 1: an art, it's all of that, but it's also a craft.

1253
01:28:10,600 --> 01:28:13,160
Speaker 1: You're working with your hands. So I wanted to be

1254
01:28:13,280 --> 01:28:17,800
Speaker 1: the best craftsman I could possibly be. And watching the

1255
01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:22,559
Speaker 1: whole world around me, some of my friends actually die

1256
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:28,519
Speaker 1: from stupidity, whether it's drugs or whatever. It was. There

1257
01:28:28,640 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: was something about the discipline and I think This came

1258
01:28:32,640 --> 01:28:38,760
Speaker 1: from my father about being a studio musician, where if

1259
01:28:38,840 --> 01:28:43,920
Speaker 1: you didn't show up on time, you're fired, and the

1260
01:28:44,000 --> 01:28:47,559
Speaker 1: story there's a thousand people waiting for that gig. If

1261
01:28:47,600 --> 01:28:50,280
Speaker 1: you don't play it right, if your mind is too

1262
01:28:51,439 --> 01:28:56,280
Speaker 1: messed up, you're fired. So to me, there was a

1263
01:28:59,479 --> 01:29:03,800
Speaker 1: to use, I guess a a military term. There was

1264
01:29:03,880 --> 01:29:08,040
Speaker 1: a doctrine that I followed that I thought this would

1265
01:29:08,080 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 1: be a good thing to do. It would be healthy.

1266
01:29:12,040 --> 01:29:15,920
Speaker 1: Now that doesn't mean that ours weren't crappy, but it was.

1267
01:29:17,200 --> 01:29:21,080
Speaker 1: It was a way to protect yourself against the the

1268
01:29:22,320 --> 01:29:27,280
Speaker 1: Sila and Charybdis of rock and roll craziness and insanity.

1269
01:29:27,560 --> 01:29:30,840
Speaker 1: So how did you decide to jump enjoying what became

1270
01:29:30,920 --> 01:29:34,880
Speaker 1: steely Dan? Well, that's when you know. Gary said, Okay,

1271
01:29:34,960 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 1: I think we got I think we passed. Go. So

1272
01:29:37,320 --> 01:29:40,200
Speaker 1: you're willing to stop being a studio musician and be

1273
01:29:40,520 --> 01:29:42,720
Speaker 1: in a band? No, I want to do both. And

1274
01:29:42,800 --> 01:29:45,880
Speaker 1: I was doing that as well in Boston and in

1275
01:29:45,960 --> 01:29:49,760
Speaker 1: New York. So I didn't see I didn't see a

1276
01:29:49,880 --> 01:29:55,840
Speaker 1: geo spatial uh separation problem. So moving to La was

1277
01:29:56,680 --> 01:29:59,080
Speaker 1: and my parents were gonna move to Los Angeles, so

1278
01:29:59,080 --> 01:30:01,559
Speaker 1: I thought, Okay, at least I got a place of sleep,

1279
01:30:02,920 --> 01:30:05,519
Speaker 1: and I will go and take a shot at this. Okay,

1280
01:30:05,640 --> 01:30:10,080
Speaker 1: ABC was a second rate label. Steely Dan makes an

1281
01:30:10,120 --> 01:30:14,160
Speaker 1: album there instantly a m hits. What was the experience

1282
01:30:14,240 --> 01:30:16,320
Speaker 1: on the other side of the fence. Well, I must

1283
01:30:17,000 --> 01:30:19,519
Speaker 1: I have to disagree with you a little bit. I'm

1284
01:30:19,560 --> 01:30:22,080
Speaker 1: not gonna be a worthy or umbrage because it makes

1285
01:30:22,160 --> 01:30:26,760
Speaker 1: me think of rain. But I don't think ABC was

1286
01:30:26,840 --> 01:30:30,519
Speaker 1: a second rate label. They did very well with people

1287
01:30:30,600 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 1: like Steve Barry in their A and R department, the grassroots, Hamilton, Joe,

1288
01:30:35,760 --> 01:30:39,920
Speaker 1: Franklin Reynolds, and they did very well. I thought, I

1289
01:30:40,000 --> 01:30:43,479
Speaker 1: thought they ran it. It was old school. I mean,

1290
01:30:43,520 --> 01:30:46,200
Speaker 1: the cigar smoke was thick when you walked into Jay

1291
01:30:46,280 --> 01:30:51,759
Speaker 1: Lasker's and Howard Stark's office. But they were old school

1292
01:30:51,880 --> 01:30:53,760
Speaker 1: and I think they did a really good job. As

1293
01:30:53,760 --> 01:30:56,600
Speaker 1: a matter of fact, when I joined, when I was

1294
01:30:56,720 --> 01:31:00,360
Speaker 1: offered the opportunity to actually join the Doobie Brothers, even

1295
01:31:00,360 --> 01:31:03,040
Speaker 1: though I was already playing with him, I went to

1296
01:31:03,200 --> 01:31:06,640
Speaker 1: Howard and Jay and said, you guys, I have this

1297
01:31:06,760 --> 01:31:10,799
Speaker 1: incredible opportunity to what's did I do? And Jay Lasker

1298
01:31:10,920 --> 01:31:14,360
Speaker 1: literally reached into his desk, Strawer pulled out my contract

1299
01:31:15,160 --> 01:31:17,960
Speaker 1: tort and half handed it to me and said, good luck.

1300
01:31:18,040 --> 01:31:22,800
Speaker 1: You never lied to me kids, good luck. And that

1301
01:31:23,840 --> 01:31:26,320
Speaker 1: is why I went to his bedside when he was

1302
01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:32,560
Speaker 1: in his last days. Old school, but old school in

1303
01:31:32,640 --> 01:31:35,400
Speaker 1: a way like Henry was old school. Those kind of

1304
01:31:35,520 --> 01:31:39,960
Speaker 1: people I understood and had a tremendous amount of love,

1305
01:31:40,400 --> 01:31:48,360
Speaker 1: affection and respect for so second rate label. I I

1306
01:31:48,520 --> 01:31:51,800
Speaker 1: understand what you're saying. They were not a major, they

1307
01:31:51,880 --> 01:31:55,840
Speaker 1: weren't our Cia, and they weren't Columbia, but they did

1308
01:31:55,880 --> 01:31:59,320
Speaker 1: good and they did well by their artists. That was

1309
01:31:59,360 --> 01:32:03,439
Speaker 1: Steely an instant hit. No. The first single that was

1310
01:32:03,560 --> 01:32:08,040
Speaker 1: released was a song called Dallas and if you go

1311
01:32:08,280 --> 01:32:11,400
Speaker 1: listen to it, it's a great song sung by the

1312
01:32:11,479 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 1: drummer Jimmy Hotter. It's almost a country tune. I'm playing

1313
01:32:16,040 --> 01:32:19,479
Speaker 1: a lot of pedal steel and Poco covered it, number

1314
01:32:19,479 --> 01:32:22,719
Speaker 1: of their own bands covered it, But for some reason,

1315
01:32:22,880 --> 01:32:26,360
Speaker 1: Becker and Fagan were frightened that between the name Steely

1316
01:32:26,479 --> 01:32:29,599
Speaker 1: Dan and having all this pedal steel and that kind

1317
01:32:29,640 --> 01:32:33,960
Speaker 1: of that they would be um button hooked or pigeonholed

1318
01:32:34,640 --> 01:32:40,240
Speaker 1: as a country band. So they pulled that back then

1319
01:32:40,360 --> 01:32:44,760
Speaker 1: released do It Again as the first single, and we

1320
01:32:44,920 --> 01:32:47,760
Speaker 1: were we were gigging. I mean, we were playing under

1321
01:32:47,800 --> 01:32:52,240
Speaker 1: the Ice House in Pasadena for five night. We were

1322
01:32:53,160 --> 01:32:55,639
Speaker 1: you know, Fanny was opening for us to talk about

1323
01:32:55,640 --> 01:32:59,200
Speaker 1: an incredible band, you know, talk about a band that

1324
01:32:59,320 --> 01:33:04,519
Speaker 1: deserves much more respect and admiration than they ever got.

1325
01:33:05,520 --> 01:33:09,719
Speaker 1: We were just we were gigging. We were playing local shows,

1326
01:33:10,680 --> 01:33:13,320
Speaker 1: so it wasn't really an instant hit. It took a

1327
01:33:13,400 --> 01:33:16,960
Speaker 1: little while, but I appreciate the compliment. Just to clarify,

1328
01:33:17,000 --> 01:33:18,920
Speaker 1: I'm talking about the perception on the other side of

1329
01:33:18,960 --> 01:33:21,720
Speaker 1: the fence. You know, there was no buzz on the

1330
01:33:21,840 --> 01:33:25,080
Speaker 1: album upon release. In terms of reviews, there was no

1331
01:33:25,320 --> 01:33:27,559
Speaker 1: FM play, and all of a sudden there were these

1332
01:33:27,680 --> 01:33:31,280
Speaker 1: magic AM tracks. But in any event, let me go back,

1333
01:33:31,680 --> 01:33:33,479
Speaker 1: what did you play on the album and what did

1334
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:36,120
Speaker 1: Anny Diaz play? Well, you have to I guess song

1335
01:33:36,240 --> 01:33:40,280
Speaker 1: by song, but we split a lot of the guitar responsibilities.

1336
01:33:41,479 --> 01:33:46,679
Speaker 1: We both played on every track. Uh, sometimes he played

1337
01:33:46,720 --> 01:33:53,560
Speaker 1: a great solo undo It Again, Wow, and um my

1338
01:33:53,760 --> 01:33:57,280
Speaker 1: solos were kind of well known, things like Ricky, don't

1339
01:33:57,320 --> 01:33:59,599
Speaker 1: lose that number of my old school we all had

1340
01:33:59,640 --> 01:34:02,840
Speaker 1: a tune it is to play. But we all played

1341
01:34:02,880 --> 01:34:05,320
Speaker 1: together and I love playing with Danny. We were very

1342
01:34:05,439 --> 01:34:10,559
Speaker 1: different players, and it was one of those lucky things

1343
01:34:10,720 --> 01:34:15,000
Speaker 1: where are our playing just messed. It was a little

1344
01:34:15,000 --> 01:34:18,599
Speaker 1: bit like when I joined the Doobies and the way

1345
01:34:18,800 --> 01:34:23,120
Speaker 1: that Patrick Simmons and I played together. We came from

1346
01:34:23,280 --> 01:34:28,680
Speaker 1: very different approaches to the instrument, but we all The

1347
01:34:28,760 --> 01:34:30,880
Speaker 1: one thing about Danny and myself is that we grew

1348
01:34:30,960 --> 01:34:34,400
Speaker 1: up in New York, and New York guitar players have

1349
01:34:34,520 --> 01:34:39,000
Speaker 1: a certain etiquette. Um. As Joe Wallace used to say,

1350
01:34:39,040 --> 01:34:41,120
Speaker 1: I don't want to be in institute. Wasn't where everybody

1351
01:34:41,200 --> 01:34:46,000
Speaker 1: plays lead all the time, either do I. You make

1352
01:34:46,160 --> 01:34:49,320
Speaker 1: room for other musicians, and by doing that you begin

1353
01:34:49,439 --> 01:34:53,879
Speaker 1: to learn about your musical partners and your musical colleagues,

1354
01:34:53,960 --> 01:34:59,800
Speaker 1: and eventually you get to the point um where you

1355
01:35:00,000 --> 01:35:03,680
Speaker 1: become a better musician. I think without learning that etiquette,

1356
01:35:04,080 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: I may may have not had the tools that I

1357
01:35:07,640 --> 01:35:11,000
Speaker 1: needed to appreciate what was happening between myself and c

1358
01:35:11,200 --> 01:35:15,479
Speaker 1: J now Danny Diaz. He ultimately left the business right

1359
01:35:15,760 --> 01:35:18,800
Speaker 1: got into computers pretty much. Yeah, I believe that I

1360
01:35:18,960 --> 01:35:21,800
Speaker 1: talked to Danny a couple of times we we got

1361
01:35:21,880 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 1: a chance to talk about once in a while. I

1362
01:35:23,920 --> 01:35:27,840
Speaker 1: believe he's a computer programmer, writes code. Um, I just

1363
01:35:28,040 --> 01:35:31,160
Speaker 1: think that the experience and I'm not going to speak

1364
01:35:31,200 --> 01:35:33,880
Speaker 1: for him, and I don't never speak for anybody. I

1365
01:35:34,040 --> 01:35:37,880
Speaker 1: think for him the experience was different and maybe he

1366
01:35:38,080 --> 01:35:41,880
Speaker 1: just saw things like that was great. And I get it.

1367
01:35:42,479 --> 01:35:44,120
Speaker 1: I mean, I have my moments for I'm a rock

1368
01:35:44,160 --> 01:35:47,720
Speaker 1: guitar player. I had my moments when I'm designing strategies

1369
01:35:47,800 --> 01:35:55,040
Speaker 1: for space warfare. You know. Uh, I get that it's

1370
01:35:55,120 --> 01:35:58,800
Speaker 1: good to be a colectic. But I think maybe he just,

1371
01:35:59,240 --> 01:36:01,559
Speaker 1: you know, got to the point where I didn't want

1372
01:36:01,600 --> 01:36:11,439
Speaker 1: to do it anymore. Many people consider the second Steely

1373
01:36:11,479 --> 01:36:15,040
Speaker 1: Dan album, Countdown to Ecstasy, the best. I'm not in

1374
01:36:15,120 --> 01:36:18,280
Speaker 1: agreement with that, but that seither here and We're there.

1375
01:36:18,760 --> 01:36:21,960
Speaker 1: The album comes out, there don't appear to be any

1376
01:36:22,080 --> 01:36:26,200
Speaker 1: hit singles on the radio, and suddenly Becker and Fagan say,

1377
01:36:26,439 --> 01:36:28,320
Speaker 1: we don't want to go on the road anymore, So

1378
01:36:28,439 --> 01:36:32,400
Speaker 1: what's your experience. Well, that didn't really happen to my

1379
01:36:32,560 --> 01:36:35,560
Speaker 1: knowledge until after Pretzel Logic. Okay, then maybe I have

1380
01:36:35,720 --> 01:36:37,920
Speaker 1: it wrong. No, we were still and we were gigging

1381
01:36:37,960 --> 01:36:40,719
Speaker 1: a lot. Actually, Steely Dan played a lot of shows.

1382
01:36:41,360 --> 01:36:45,559
Speaker 1: Somehow or other, this this myth arose that Steely Dan

1383
01:36:45,640 --> 01:36:48,519
Speaker 1: didn't do any gigs. We worked hard. We opened for

1384
01:36:48,600 --> 01:36:52,719
Speaker 1: the Doobie Brothers, we opened for James Gang, we opened

1385
01:36:52,800 --> 01:36:58,439
Speaker 1: for um um Bert Cummings, we opened I mean we

1386
01:36:59,360 --> 01:37:03,160
Speaker 1: we did a lot lot of shows. Um But I

1387
01:37:03,560 --> 01:37:08,160
Speaker 1: think in the same way that I think Living All

1388
01:37:08,200 --> 01:37:12,040
Speaker 1: the fault Line, Ultimately it was probably the best Doobie

1389
01:37:12,080 --> 01:37:16,960
Speaker 1: Brothers album because and we can certainly have a discussion

1390
01:37:17,000 --> 01:37:22,000
Speaker 1: about the transition from rock and bar band two, you know,

1391
01:37:22,760 --> 01:37:30,759
Speaker 1: focusing um. The song raised Her Boy on Countdown Ectity.

1392
01:37:30,840 --> 01:37:35,560
Speaker 1: To me epitomizes Steely Dan because that record seemed to

1393
01:37:36,520 --> 01:37:44,240
Speaker 1: synthesize and and digest a lot of what Steely Dan

1394
01:37:44,400 --> 01:37:46,639
Speaker 1: was becoming. And we'd had time to play on the road,

1395
01:37:47,400 --> 01:37:52,360
Speaker 1: we'd had time to become a unit. So I wasn't

1396
01:37:52,400 --> 01:37:55,080
Speaker 1: really worried about the hits. I mean, I'm doing fine.

1397
01:37:55,640 --> 01:37:58,479
Speaker 1: You know, I'm doing four or five sessions to day.

1398
01:37:58,520 --> 01:38:01,960
Speaker 1: I'm working my ass off, so and I'm playing in

1399
01:38:02,080 --> 01:38:05,760
Speaker 1: Lenda Rostats band. I'm playing pedalist steel, so I'm you know,

1400
01:38:06,120 --> 01:38:09,600
Speaker 1: I'm I'm digging my butt off and I'm out with

1401
01:38:09,680 --> 01:38:13,719
Speaker 1: the Deobie Brothers playing, So I really wasn't. I guess

1402
01:38:13,800 --> 01:38:16,599
Speaker 1: maybe I wasn't affected by that, but I think as

1403
01:38:16,640 --> 01:38:21,400
Speaker 1: an albums, as a creative piece, the second Steely Dan

1404
01:38:21,520 --> 01:38:26,080
Speaker 1: album shows a maturity of a group of musicians. So

1405
01:38:26,600 --> 01:38:29,040
Speaker 1: how did it in with Steely Dan for you? I

1406
01:38:29,160 --> 01:38:30,880
Speaker 1: was actually on the phone. I was out with the

1407
01:38:30,960 --> 01:38:35,919
Speaker 1: Deobie Brothers playing um uh an outdoor festival in England,

1408
01:38:37,560 --> 01:38:43,120
Speaker 1: and I had gotten into a conversation with with Donald

1409
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:48,640
Speaker 1: and Denny, and Danny had called and said, yeah, they

1410
01:38:49,280 --> 01:38:51,320
Speaker 1: Walter and Donald just don't want to go on the

1411
01:38:51,400 --> 01:38:53,800
Speaker 1: road anymore. They don't want to have a band, they

1412
01:38:53,880 --> 01:38:56,599
Speaker 1: just want to So I talked to Donald and said, yeah,

1413
01:38:56,600 --> 01:39:01,080
Speaker 1: we just um don't want to do it anymore. We

1414
01:39:01,160 --> 01:39:04,360
Speaker 1: can't get the sound, we don't do it. And probably

1415
01:39:04,960 --> 01:39:07,600
Speaker 1: they were doing very well with their publishing and so

1416
01:39:07,880 --> 01:39:09,960
Speaker 1: you know, if you didn't really going on the road

1417
01:39:10,000 --> 01:39:17,599
Speaker 1: could be challenging, um say the least. So I hung

1418
01:39:17,720 --> 01:39:21,560
Speaker 1: up the phone. I was in uh net Worth, that

1419
01:39:21,760 --> 01:39:24,639
Speaker 1: was it, the net Worth Music Festival, And I hid

1420
01:39:24,760 --> 01:39:26,479
Speaker 1: up the phone and I turned to Pat Simmons and

1421
01:39:26,560 --> 01:39:29,080
Speaker 1: I said well, I said for me and Steely Dan,

1422
01:39:29,600 --> 01:39:35,160
Speaker 1: and he said, well, now you're in the Dubie Brothers. Okay, Okay, great,

1423
01:39:36,479 --> 01:39:39,000
Speaker 1: there you go. Okay, let's go back to your conversation

1424
01:39:39,080 --> 01:39:41,519
Speaker 1: with Henry. It seemed like you were saying you were

1425
01:39:41,560 --> 01:39:44,479
Speaker 1: talking about going into the military. What happened there? Not

1426
01:39:44,640 --> 01:39:47,439
Speaker 1: into the military. I did not join the military. I

1427
01:39:47,600 --> 01:39:49,880
Speaker 1: was never in the military, and I don't want to again.

1428
01:39:49,920 --> 01:39:53,840
Speaker 1: I want to be very very careful. I what I

1429
01:39:54,080 --> 01:39:58,160
Speaker 1: do is I work for the Department of Defense and

1430
01:39:58,280 --> 01:40:03,240
Speaker 1: a number of US government agencies on many different levels,

1431
01:40:04,320 --> 01:40:13,080
Speaker 1: mostly having to do with unconventional warfare, space, UM perception management,

1432
01:40:14,360 --> 01:40:19,599
Speaker 1: UM war gaming. But I'm not actually I was never

1433
01:40:21,240 --> 01:40:23,880
Speaker 1: a member of the military. Okay. A couple of questions,

1434
01:40:23,920 --> 01:40:25,800
Speaker 1: How did you get out of the draft? I showed

1435
01:40:25,880 --> 01:40:30,559
Speaker 1: up at my draft board like everybody else? And did

1436
01:40:30,600 --> 01:40:32,800
Speaker 1: you ever did you ever go to a draft physical? No,

1437
01:40:33,160 --> 01:40:35,800
Speaker 1: because I filed as the CEO. But then I got

1438
01:40:35,880 --> 01:40:39,920
Speaker 1: a number like two nine and it didn't become an issue. Okay.

1439
01:40:40,080 --> 01:40:42,920
Speaker 1: So I show up at the well the experience, So

1440
01:40:43,040 --> 01:40:45,920
Speaker 1: you show up at the Boston Navy Yard. Truth is

1441
01:40:46,000 --> 01:40:49,160
Speaker 1: stranger than fiction. I've show up at the Boston Navy Yard.

1442
01:40:49,720 --> 01:40:51,479
Speaker 1: So yeah, I got all your clothes off. You got

1443
01:40:51,479 --> 01:40:53,519
Speaker 1: a little bag in your hand with all your little stuff,

1444
01:40:54,040 --> 01:40:56,799
Speaker 1: and you go from desk to desk and they're checking

1445
01:40:56,880 --> 01:41:02,000
Speaker 1: things off. Yep, this looks good. Yeah, this looks good. Yep.

1446
01:41:02,200 --> 01:41:04,439
Speaker 1: You look good here, you look good here. Yep. So

1447
01:41:04,560 --> 01:41:06,719
Speaker 1: you're going from desk to desk, and I'm thinking, okay,

1448
01:41:07,920 --> 01:41:11,839
Speaker 1: in about three weeks, maybe a second lieutenant in Vietnam,

1449
01:41:12,520 --> 01:41:16,000
Speaker 1: and that may be it for me. So it wasn't

1450
01:41:16,080 --> 01:41:20,200
Speaker 1: a very pleasant experience. So the last guy at the

1451
01:41:20,360 --> 01:41:23,760
Speaker 1: end of the hall, and I guess I'm being cinematic

1452
01:41:23,800 --> 01:41:26,639
Speaker 1: about this, but the last guy, so you walked through

1453
01:41:26,680 --> 01:41:31,479
Speaker 1: the door, big steel desk, sitting behind the desk, looks

1454
01:41:31,520 --> 01:41:34,839
Speaker 1: down at my papers and says says, here you're a musician.

1455
01:41:35,280 --> 01:41:41,040
Speaker 1: Said yes, sir, Well do you only think about stereo equipment?

1456
01:41:42,240 --> 01:41:45,920
Speaker 1: And I'm thinking, okay, I have just moved into an

1457
01:41:46,000 --> 01:41:51,200
Speaker 1: alternate universe. I'm gonna wake up in Way City. But

1458
01:41:51,640 --> 01:41:55,000
Speaker 1: right now, okay, he says, do you have a minute.

1459
01:41:57,120 --> 01:42:01,519
Speaker 1: So now this thing is really starting to now I

1460
01:42:01,560 --> 01:42:05,240
Speaker 1: even more than I'm in a multidimensional universe, you know,

1461
01:42:05,479 --> 01:42:11,280
Speaker 1: I'm I am living string theory. So I sit down

1462
01:42:11,320 --> 01:42:13,439
Speaker 1: on the edge of his desk naked with my little

1463
01:42:13,479 --> 01:42:16,080
Speaker 1: bag of stuff. He draws a picture of his living

1464
01:42:16,160 --> 01:42:21,400
Speaker 1: room with the measurements, and I said okay, And I

1465
01:42:21,479 --> 01:42:25,200
Speaker 1: asked the question. I said, is your wife want to

1466
01:42:25,280 --> 01:42:29,920
Speaker 1: not see this uh stuff? And she said absolutely not.

1467
01:42:30,840 --> 01:42:33,880
Speaker 1: He said, I want to see this crop. So I said, okay,

1468
01:42:33,920 --> 01:42:38,080
Speaker 1: Here's what I would suggest in these corners. I would

1469
01:42:38,200 --> 01:42:45,439
Speaker 1: build a m a curtain, put a set of curtains

1470
01:42:45,520 --> 01:42:48,360
Speaker 1: in that our catacorners are to try, you know, the

1471
01:42:48,840 --> 01:42:51,760
Speaker 1: other side of the triangle that the that the the

1472
01:42:52,960 --> 01:42:55,920
Speaker 1: the room forms. Put in a pair of clip shorns,

1473
01:42:56,880 --> 01:42:59,680
Speaker 1: because they'll create enough top end so they get through

1474
01:42:59,680 --> 01:43:03,160
Speaker 1: the curve. But it will create enough high fidelity for you.

1475
01:43:04,000 --> 01:43:07,160
Speaker 1: I would recommend that you buy a Macintosh to box

1476
01:43:08,840 --> 01:43:15,280
Speaker 1: um I and probably a Dina kit to preamp Thorne's

1477
01:43:15,320 --> 01:43:19,600
Speaker 1: turntable with a short cartridge. And I think you'll have

1478
01:43:19,680 --> 01:43:24,599
Speaker 1: a wonderful stereo system that you really like. Meanwhile, the line,

1479
01:43:25,720 --> 01:43:31,639
Speaker 1: it's like way back, I'm spending twenty minutes in there,

1480
01:43:32,320 --> 01:43:35,679
Speaker 1: and then the guy says, okay, thank you for your time.

1481
01:43:35,760 --> 01:43:40,040
Speaker 1: You know, if you came into the military, it would

1482
01:43:40,040 --> 01:43:43,519
Speaker 1: probably ruin your career as a musician, checked off four

1483
01:43:43,600 --> 01:43:47,719
Speaker 1: off and handing in my papers, and I thought, okay,

1484
01:43:47,840 --> 01:43:52,360
Speaker 1: I'm just when am I gonna wake up out of this?

1485
01:43:53,080 --> 01:43:56,840
Speaker 1: When when I pass back into you know, the the

1486
01:43:57,200 --> 01:44:01,560
Speaker 1: universe that I'm familiar with. Never happened? That was it?

1487
01:44:01,840 --> 01:44:05,240
Speaker 1: Well quite a story. So when did this conversation with

1488
01:44:05,360 --> 01:44:08,320
Speaker 1: Henry take place? It was, well, after all of that,

1489
01:44:09,160 --> 01:44:13,120
Speaker 1: well after all that, I mean, James Montgomery was my

1490
01:44:13,240 --> 01:44:16,520
Speaker 1: roommate at Boston University. So that way with James Montgomery,

1491
01:44:16,640 --> 01:44:18,680
Speaker 1: the Blues single, Oh yeah, we're we're being friends and

1492
01:44:18,760 --> 01:44:22,600
Speaker 1: playing together for years. He was your roommate accidentally it

1493
01:44:22,720 --> 01:44:24,439
Speaker 1: be you where you met each other and said, let's

1494
01:44:24,520 --> 01:44:26,680
Speaker 1: room together. It was my roommate accidentally it be you

1495
01:44:27,160 --> 01:44:29,559
Speaker 1: for a while, and we lived in the football arms.

1496
01:44:29,600 --> 01:44:31,960
Speaker 1: So we go down to the commons room and get

1497
01:44:32,120 --> 01:44:36,280
Speaker 1: musicians together and play. So um, there was a lot

1498
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:38,400
Speaker 1: of music going on and you know, again meeting a

1499
01:44:38,479 --> 01:44:40,559
Speaker 1: lot of folks and and a lot of that stuff.

1500
01:44:41,040 --> 01:44:47,840
Speaker 1: But the conversation with Henry came after I was after

1501
01:44:48,040 --> 01:44:52,320
Speaker 1: I had written the first paper that I had written

1502
01:44:52,439 --> 01:44:56,439
Speaker 1: about missile defense. About that I'm not going to go

1503
01:44:56,520 --> 01:44:58,800
Speaker 1: into too much detail. I want to bore anybody about

1504
01:44:58,960 --> 01:45:08,080
Speaker 1: adapting a Navy carrier battle group antire defense system to

1505
01:45:08,240 --> 01:45:11,240
Speaker 1: do missile defense. And I wrote a paper. My dad said,

1506
01:45:11,280 --> 01:45:14,280
Speaker 1: you got an idea, You're right down. So I had

1507
01:45:14,320 --> 01:45:16,320
Speaker 1: an idea. I went to a friend of mine at

1508
01:45:16,360 --> 01:45:19,240
Speaker 1: a propulsion laboratories to do some math for me, make

1509
01:45:19,280 --> 01:45:23,080
Speaker 1: sure I had the radar stuff right. And so I

1510
01:45:23,200 --> 01:45:26,599
Speaker 1: handed the paper to a congressman in Los Angeles who

1511
01:45:26,640 --> 01:45:28,040
Speaker 1: I was doing a lot of work with because I

1512
01:45:28,120 --> 01:45:30,200
Speaker 1: was a reserve officer with L A p D. And

1513
01:45:30,280 --> 01:45:32,799
Speaker 1: I was helping him with some counter terrors and stuff.

1514
01:45:33,320 --> 01:45:35,519
Speaker 1: And so he gives it to the vice chairman of

1515
01:45:35,560 --> 01:45:37,920
Speaker 1: the Armed Services Committee. He said, well, there's a guy

1516
01:45:38,000 --> 01:45:41,280
Speaker 1: from Boeing or Raytheon No, he's a guitar player for

1517
01:45:41,320 --> 01:45:45,040
Speaker 1: the Doobie Brothers. And he goes, well, I want to

1518
01:45:45,080 --> 01:45:48,080
Speaker 1: meet this guy. So I get a call, would you

1519
01:45:48,200 --> 01:45:52,160
Speaker 1: be willing to accept the position on the House Arm

1520
01:45:52,240 --> 01:45:56,080
Speaker 1: Services Committee UH to head up the Civilian Advisory Board

1521
01:45:56,080 --> 01:45:58,599
Speaker 1: on Missile Defense. And we're going to classify the paper

1522
01:45:58,680 --> 01:46:02,040
Speaker 1: that you wrote, and we're gonna give you a security clearance.

1523
01:46:02,120 --> 01:46:03,719
Speaker 1: So of course, the next thing you know, you're taking

1524
01:46:03,800 --> 01:46:06,240
Speaker 1: polygraphs and you're doing all this kind of stuff. But

1525
01:46:06,360 --> 01:46:09,600
Speaker 1: this opportunity came up. And there's other opportunities that we

1526
01:46:09,680 --> 01:46:13,559
Speaker 1: can cover in a later date about the counter terrorism stuff, etcetera, etcetera.

1527
01:46:13,960 --> 01:46:17,200
Speaker 1: But when this happened, I was in New York and

1528
01:46:17,320 --> 01:46:19,800
Speaker 1: I went I had mentioned it to a couple of

1529
01:46:19,880 --> 01:46:23,879
Speaker 1: friends of mine, many of whom said, well, that's really stupid.

1530
01:46:23,920 --> 01:46:25,320
Speaker 1: What do you want to do something like that for?

1531
01:46:25,439 --> 01:46:27,519
Speaker 1: What are you a war guy? What do you you

1532
01:46:27,600 --> 01:46:34,599
Speaker 1: know that that kind of attitude? So I thought, who

1533
01:46:34,600 --> 01:46:37,200
Speaker 1: am I going to talk to about this? I know

1534
01:46:37,320 --> 01:46:41,680
Speaker 1: how my dad feels, uh, And he was very very supportive.

1535
01:46:42,960 --> 01:46:44,960
Speaker 1: But I thought, okay, who do I know? And that's

1536
01:46:44,960 --> 01:46:49,760
Speaker 1: got a foot in both worlds. Gotta be Henry. So

1537
01:46:50,120 --> 01:46:53,320
Speaker 1: I went to talk to Henry and he was not

1538
01:46:54,200 --> 01:47:00,920
Speaker 1: at all um hesitant at all. I mean, he looked

1539
01:47:00,960 --> 01:47:03,479
Speaker 1: me right in the eyes. He said, I've known you

1540
01:47:04,000 --> 01:47:08,519
Speaker 1: since you were a kid. I think I know you

1541
01:47:08,640 --> 01:47:12,800
Speaker 1: well enough. Do you really want my opinion? And I said, Henry,

1542
01:47:12,840 --> 01:47:16,840
Speaker 1: I need your opinion please, And he said, you again,

1543
01:47:16,920 --> 01:47:18,880
Speaker 1: what I told you before you go do it? Screw

1544
01:47:19,000 --> 01:47:22,320
Speaker 1: those people. If you believe in this, you go do

1545
01:47:22,439 --> 01:47:27,160
Speaker 1: it and tell him to call me. So. I don't

1546
01:47:27,200 --> 01:47:29,880
Speaker 1: think anybody ever did, but you know, Henry, I mean,

1547
01:47:30,880 --> 01:47:34,480
Speaker 1: so you switch to the Doobie Brothers when Tom Johnston

1548
01:47:34,640 --> 01:47:36,519
Speaker 1: is still the front person for the band along with

1549
01:47:36,560 --> 01:47:41,679
Speaker 1: Patrick Simmons, and tell me about the transition where Tom

1550
01:47:41,840 --> 01:47:45,960
Speaker 1: ultimately falls out of the band and you bring Michael

1551
01:47:46,000 --> 01:47:49,479
Speaker 1: McDonald in. Well, okay, So for a while we were

1552
01:47:49,520 --> 01:47:53,479
Speaker 1: a three master at Schooner, three guitar players. Um, all

1553
01:47:53,560 --> 01:47:55,920
Speaker 1: of us, by the way, we're big fans of Will

1554
01:47:55,960 --> 01:47:58,320
Speaker 1: Be Great. I think that was probably the greatest American

1555
01:47:58,400 --> 01:48:04,200
Speaker 1: rock and roll band ever, and they managed to synthesize

1556
01:48:05,160 --> 01:48:09,840
Speaker 1: the interaction between three guitar players in a magic way,

1557
01:48:10,800 --> 01:48:14,640
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. So the three guitar player thing

1558
01:48:14,720 --> 01:48:17,559
Speaker 1: was very comfortable, especially because you could always have an

1559
01:48:17,560 --> 01:48:20,679
Speaker 1: acoustic guitar as well. I mean, you could really fill

1560
01:48:20,760 --> 01:48:23,680
Speaker 1: it out the way it should be. UM. So we

1561
01:48:23,800 --> 01:48:26,439
Speaker 1: played a lot of shows and then we were playing

1562
01:48:26,720 --> 01:48:31,040
Speaker 1: l s U Louisiana State University and Tom had had

1563
01:48:31,120 --> 01:48:35,400
Speaker 1: some health problems before, but he couldn't go out on stage.

1564
01:48:36,200 --> 01:48:41,599
Speaker 1: He his he has some serious and again I don't

1565
01:48:41,800 --> 01:48:44,719
Speaker 1: tell tales out of school but he has some serious

1566
01:48:45,200 --> 01:48:54,160
Speaker 1: um um digestive problems, stomach problems, and he was in

1567
01:48:54,320 --> 01:48:59,040
Speaker 1: paint and he couldn't come out and perform. So um,

1568
01:49:00,560 --> 01:49:02,320
Speaker 1: and I'm not going to get into again. I don't

1569
01:49:02,360 --> 01:49:06,719
Speaker 1: tell tales out of school. There was certainly a number

1570
01:49:06,800 --> 01:49:12,519
Speaker 1: of interesting conversations back in the dressing room, and we

1571
01:49:12,640 --> 01:49:15,120
Speaker 1: all came to the conclusion, or some of us came

1572
01:49:15,200 --> 01:49:17,760
Speaker 1: to the conclusion that we still wanted to do this.

1573
01:49:18,920 --> 01:49:22,080
Speaker 1: So I went out on stage and said, they were

1574
01:49:22,160 --> 01:49:25,040
Speaker 1: like fifty thou people there. I said, we can either

1575
01:49:25,160 --> 01:49:28,320
Speaker 1: give you your money back or come back in ten

1576
01:49:28,439 --> 01:49:32,920
Speaker 1: days and we'll put on a show for you. Well, nobody,

1577
01:49:34,640 --> 01:49:39,840
Speaker 1: nobody wanted their money back. So right after that, I

1578
01:49:39,920 --> 01:49:43,920
Speaker 1: got on the phone and I called Michael McDonald because

1579
01:49:43,960 --> 01:49:47,240
Speaker 1: he and I had become friends through playing together and

1580
01:49:47,320 --> 01:49:50,240
Speaker 1: Steely Dan and doing some writing together and playing together.

1581
01:49:51,120 --> 01:49:53,439
Speaker 1: Said Michael, I'm sending you a one way ticket you

1582
01:49:53,479 --> 01:49:56,879
Speaker 1: want to join the Doobie Brothers. And he said, okay,

1583
01:49:57,760 --> 01:50:00,479
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I later on we always we

1584
01:50:00,520 --> 01:50:06,200
Speaker 1: we we lived that conversation, but it was yeah, sure,

1585
01:50:06,840 --> 01:50:11,000
Speaker 1: why not? So he flew out. We rehearsed for ten days,

1586
01:50:11,160 --> 01:50:15,160
Speaker 1: eight hours a day put on a show, got five encores,

1587
01:50:16,040 --> 01:50:20,439
Speaker 1: And I guess sometimes you have to make a command

1588
01:50:20,560 --> 01:50:25,560
Speaker 1: decision and sometimes you get the elevator and sometimes you

1589
01:50:25,640 --> 01:50:28,960
Speaker 1: get the shaft. And this time I think it worked

1590
01:50:29,000 --> 01:50:32,720
Speaker 1: out very well. Now, the Doobie Brothers have a new biography.

1591
01:50:33,200 --> 01:50:35,439
Speaker 1: To be point blank about it, they give you some

1592
01:50:35,760 --> 01:50:40,240
Speaker 1: ship about the end of your tenure with the Doobie Brothers.

1593
01:50:40,640 --> 01:50:43,600
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've seen that book, but what

1594
01:50:43,880 --> 01:50:46,760
Speaker 1: is your viewpoint of the end? They basically said, you

1595
01:50:46,880 --> 01:50:50,519
Speaker 1: were playing what you wanted to didn't necessarily fit in

1596
01:50:50,640 --> 01:50:53,360
Speaker 1: with the rest of the band, and to a degree,

1597
01:50:53,439 --> 01:50:58,760
Speaker 1: we're incorrigible. What was your experience? Boy? What a compliment? Wow?

1598
01:50:59,680 --> 01:51:04,599
Speaker 1: Thank you? Um incorrigible playing what I wanted to play?

1599
01:51:05,960 --> 01:51:17,439
Speaker 1: Um gee? Okay UM. When I before we started the

1600
01:51:18,680 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 1: Living on the fault Line album, I thought, okay because

1601
01:51:25,439 --> 01:51:29,479
Speaker 1: Ted Templeman was a great producer, and I thought because

1602
01:51:29,600 --> 01:51:36,280
Speaker 1: Michael's material was a little bit more, um, multifaceted than

1603
01:51:36,720 --> 01:51:38,960
Speaker 1: the material that the Doobie Brothers were well known for.

1604
01:51:39,840 --> 01:51:42,280
Speaker 1: I mean, Tom Johnson is a great songwriter. I am

1605
01:51:42,400 --> 01:51:47,679
Speaker 1: This is not in any way, um uh, putting any

1606
01:51:47,760 --> 01:51:51,799
Speaker 1: kind of bad spin on any of this. I thought, Okay,

1607
01:51:53,400 --> 01:51:58,920
Speaker 1: what would happen if I made if I got everybody

1608
01:51:59,000 --> 01:52:00,760
Speaker 1: in the band. What if what the Doobie but has

1609
01:52:00,800 --> 01:52:05,639
Speaker 1: worked as a rhythm section for other artists Leo Sayer,

1610
01:52:06,040 --> 01:52:11,479
Speaker 1: Carly Simon, Um hoit accident? What if they had to

1611
01:52:11,520 --> 01:52:15,200
Speaker 1: show up at nine am as a rhythm section? Play

1612
01:52:15,240 --> 01:52:20,160
Speaker 1: it right or you get fired well number one. I

1613
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:25,599
Speaker 1: had always felt that the Doobie Brothers as individuals were

1614
01:52:25,680 --> 01:52:30,760
Speaker 1: extremely talented musicians each one and had not realized their

1615
01:52:30,800 --> 01:52:34,479
Speaker 1: own potential. Not that it was my job to do that,

1616
01:52:35,160 --> 01:52:37,519
Speaker 1: but I thought that they hadn't realized their own potential.

1617
01:52:38,920 --> 01:52:42,320
Speaker 1: So they started. I said, let's let's do this. What

1618
01:52:42,439 --> 01:52:44,680
Speaker 1: do you think? And there was a little bit of

1619
01:52:44,680 --> 01:52:46,479
Speaker 1: ad I don't really want to do that, you know,

1620
01:52:46,479 --> 01:52:48,519
Speaker 1: I don't want to get up, And I said okay, fine,

1621
01:52:49,360 --> 01:52:55,680
Speaker 1: and Ted Templeman, I believe UM encouraged that idea. So

1622
01:52:56,240 --> 01:53:01,479
Speaker 1: there you go, downbeat, nine am. Here we go. And

1623
01:53:02,720 --> 01:53:08,680
Speaker 1: what stuck struck me is after about seven or eight

1624
01:53:08,800 --> 01:53:12,800
Speaker 1: months of this, I remember Keith Canuteson, who was a

1625
01:53:13,000 --> 01:53:20,720
Speaker 1: fabulous drummer, just pocket groove drummer, um listening back to

1626
01:53:20,840 --> 01:53:25,200
Speaker 1: a track and saying I think I dropped the snare

1627
01:53:25,280 --> 01:53:32,280
Speaker 1: drum beat in bar fifte and I went, BINGO, this

1628
01:53:32,720 --> 01:53:36,920
Speaker 1: is great. This is the best of what Steely Dan

1629
01:53:37,120 --> 01:53:41,519
Speaker 1: was about with the spirit of the Doobie Brothers and

1630
01:53:41,920 --> 01:53:45,519
Speaker 1: pushed very hard a lot of the stuff on the

1631
01:53:45,600 --> 01:53:48,880
Speaker 1: Living on the fault Line album. It's very different than

1632
01:53:48,960 --> 01:53:52,320
Speaker 1: the Doobie Brothers, but I think it laid the foundation

1633
01:53:53,120 --> 01:53:56,400
Speaker 1: for a minute by minute to be that kind of record.

1634
01:53:57,520 --> 01:54:06,200
Speaker 1: UM play what I want, UM, Certainly I had ideas

1635
01:54:06,600 --> 01:54:11,560
Speaker 1: and things that I felt, UM I wanted to do.

1636
01:54:13,360 --> 01:54:18,559
Speaker 1: I unless I'm missing something, there was more agreement than

1637
01:54:18,640 --> 01:54:21,559
Speaker 1: there was disagreement. Just to clarify, in that book, they

1638
01:54:21,600 --> 01:54:24,760
Speaker 1: were talking at about the last last days of the

1639
01:54:24,800 --> 01:54:28,280
Speaker 1: Doobie Brothers, not Living on the fall Line, not minute

1640
01:54:28,280 --> 01:54:30,080
Speaker 1: by minute. Well it would be after a minute by

1641
01:54:30,120 --> 01:54:34,440
Speaker 1: minute or about the same time. Yeah, So again I

1642
01:54:34,600 --> 01:54:38,200
Speaker 1: take that as a huge compliment. UM. When I was

1643
01:54:38,320 --> 01:54:41,120
Speaker 1: on stage sometimes I was where I wore headphones all

1644
01:54:41,120 --> 01:54:42,680
Speaker 1: the time because I wanted to get a good mix.

1645
01:54:43,240 --> 01:54:45,760
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm a studio guy. I'm sitting down with

1646
01:54:45,920 --> 01:54:52,760
Speaker 1: headphones people three guys Hyatt Jingle Stadium. That's what I do.

1647
01:54:54,080 --> 01:55:00,360
Speaker 1: And Tim McCormick, my my guitar check. They started to

1648
01:55:00,400 --> 01:55:02,680
Speaker 1: play this game where they would write a piece of

1649
01:55:03,080 --> 01:55:06,160
Speaker 1: a song title on a piece of paper, and since

1650
01:55:06,200 --> 01:55:07,920
Speaker 1: I was sitting next to Michael, they put on the

1651
01:55:07,960 --> 01:55:10,520
Speaker 1: piano right next to me, and in thirty seconds I

1652
01:55:10,640 --> 01:55:18,200
Speaker 1: had to take that song and incorporated into a guitar song. So, uh,

1653
01:55:19,320 --> 01:55:24,880
Speaker 1: rocking down the Highway, we want you to play bobble

1654
01:55:24,960 --> 01:55:28,760
Speaker 1: spangles and peats and maybe the next night we want

1655
01:55:28,800 --> 01:55:35,880
Speaker 1: you to do the Hallelujah chorus. Okay, great, I loved it.

1656
01:55:37,360 --> 01:55:42,000
Speaker 1: To me, that's what it's all about, challenge, rising to

1657
01:55:42,120 --> 01:55:45,720
Speaker 1: the occasion and playing something different. Not that the solos

1658
01:55:45,800 --> 01:55:48,520
Speaker 1: that were originally in those songs weren't great. It's not

1659
01:55:48,680 --> 01:55:51,680
Speaker 1: about that, but I think they're You have to stretch

1660
01:55:51,760 --> 01:55:53,560
Speaker 1: out a little bit, and maybe that made some people

1661
01:55:53,600 --> 01:55:55,960
Speaker 1: feel uncomfortable. So how does it end with you? In

1662
01:55:56,000 --> 01:56:00,800
Speaker 1: the Doobie Brothers, we just parted ways. Um. I think

1663
01:56:00,880 --> 01:56:05,680
Speaker 1: that Patrick Simmons had another vision of what he wanted

1664
01:56:05,720 --> 01:56:13,240
Speaker 1: the band to be and it was kind of his baby. Um.

1665
01:56:14,840 --> 01:56:18,480
Speaker 1: I know that they had sort of broken up, but

1666
01:56:18,640 --> 01:56:21,440
Speaker 1: they came back together, and I think a lot of

1667
01:56:21,480 --> 01:56:24,560
Speaker 1: that has to do with everybody in the band wanting

1668
01:56:24,640 --> 01:56:29,800
Speaker 1: to continue, and Tommy was had gotten his health back,

1669
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:38,760
Speaker 1: So I guess it was another metamorphosis. I mean, I

1670
01:56:38,880 --> 01:56:40,880
Speaker 1: said a long time ago when I did an interview

1671
01:56:41,320 --> 01:56:46,840
Speaker 1: on MSNBC about my other work. To me, life is

1672
01:56:46,880 --> 01:56:51,200
Speaker 1: a series of chapters, and I love them all, every

1673
01:56:51,280 --> 01:56:54,320
Speaker 1: chapter that I've been involved in. The One thing that's

1674
01:56:54,360 --> 01:56:58,280
Speaker 1: important to understand, I believe is that if you're a

1675
01:56:58,440 --> 01:57:02,040
Speaker 1: change agent, if you're someone who was willing to try

1676
01:57:02,680 --> 01:57:05,879
Speaker 1: to change, and let's face it, what end of whatever

1677
01:57:06,040 --> 01:57:09,560
Speaker 1: anybody wants to say. Bringing Michael McDonald and the Dubie

1678
01:57:09,640 --> 01:57:15,560
Speaker 1: Brothers was a change. Some would say radical someone, but

1679
01:57:16,160 --> 01:57:20,840
Speaker 1: it was a change to have initiated that. There are

1680
01:57:20,960 --> 01:57:25,600
Speaker 1: consequences change agents. If you're a change agent, you have

1681
01:57:25,720 --> 01:57:30,000
Speaker 1: to be comfortable with knowing when it's time the change

1682
01:57:30,160 --> 01:57:35,440
Speaker 1: is done. Everything's done, good, thank you. Plus I wanted

1683
01:57:35,440 --> 01:57:39,400
Speaker 1: to produce records. I wanted to try some other things.

1684
01:57:39,520 --> 01:57:42,120
Speaker 1: I'd already started producing records when I was still in

1685
01:57:42,200 --> 01:57:50,080
Speaker 1: the band, and to me, maybe you know, as time passes,

1686
01:57:52,280 --> 01:57:55,720
Speaker 1: I just remember the good stuff. I still I see

1687
01:57:55,800 --> 01:58:00,320
Speaker 1: Tommy Johnson probably two or three times a year because

1688
01:58:00,400 --> 01:58:04,600
Speaker 1: we do the St. Chud's Hospital um benefit that I

1689
01:58:04,640 --> 01:58:10,760
Speaker 1: see him play great. Actually, I thought Tom Johnson was

1690
01:58:10,840 --> 01:58:13,720
Speaker 1: and still is a fine human being because one time

1691
01:58:13,760 --> 01:58:15,320
Speaker 1: he came and stayed at my house and he made

1692
01:58:15,360 --> 01:58:19,640
Speaker 1: his bed and I know that sounds but no, No,

1693
01:58:19,920 --> 01:58:22,520
Speaker 1: those little things I noticed. Whether it's like when you're

1694
01:58:22,520 --> 01:58:24,760
Speaker 1: in the bathroom with a guy, does he wash his hands?

1695
01:58:25,120 --> 01:58:27,800
Speaker 1: If he doesn't wash his hands, It's something you can

1696
01:58:27,880 --> 01:58:32,200
Speaker 1: never forget. So ultimately you leave the Doobie Brothers. You

1697
01:58:32,360 --> 01:58:36,800
Speaker 1: produce records, and you do a cornucopy of things. You

1698
01:58:36,920 --> 01:58:39,840
Speaker 1: work in TV, you work in movies, you work in

1699
01:58:40,240 --> 01:58:44,000
Speaker 1: advertising commercials. You write the theme from nine O two

1700
01:58:44,080 --> 01:58:48,880
Speaker 1: one Oh So was there any plan? Was there? I

1701
01:58:49,040 --> 01:58:51,440
Speaker 1: know you play with multiple people, but you've been in

1702
01:58:51,600 --> 01:58:53,640
Speaker 1: bands for a while. Did you not want to be

1703
01:58:53,760 --> 01:58:57,600
Speaker 1: in bands again? No? I live Living in Los Angeles

1704
01:58:58,160 --> 01:59:02,960
Speaker 1: was like going to the Costco of music. Sometimes you

1705
01:59:03,040 --> 01:59:07,160
Speaker 1: didn't even know what you want to buy. Oh yeah,

1706
01:59:07,440 --> 01:59:12,960
Speaker 1: that those big truck tires. Maybe I'll buy a truck. Well,

1707
01:59:13,080 --> 01:59:15,800
Speaker 1: buy the tires and then I'll buy the truck. Or

1708
01:59:16,440 --> 01:59:20,200
Speaker 1: you know it. There's you have so much on There's

1709
01:59:20,240 --> 01:59:26,000
Speaker 1: so much available, a pot pourri, a veritable supermarket, a

1710
01:59:26,160 --> 01:59:30,520
Speaker 1: voritable bazaar of things to do. I wanted to try

1711
01:59:30,600 --> 01:59:36,120
Speaker 1: it all because I wanted to challenge myself. I I'm

1712
01:59:36,200 --> 01:59:39,920
Speaker 1: not a big fan of you know, I'm this guy,

1713
01:59:40,120 --> 01:59:43,000
Speaker 1: and look at what I've done to me. It's what

1714
01:59:43,120 --> 01:59:46,760
Speaker 1: did you do today? Um? Maybe again, that's the work

1715
01:59:46,840 --> 01:59:51,320
Speaker 1: ethic that I learned from my father. But I saw

1716
01:59:51,520 --> 01:59:54,520
Speaker 1: this opportunity and I wanted. I was curious, could I

1717
01:59:54,640 --> 01:59:57,840
Speaker 1: do this? I already know what I can do. I

1718
01:59:57,960 --> 02:00:01,880
Speaker 1: had a bucket list. I've tried off every box in

1719
02:00:02,040 --> 02:00:07,480
Speaker 1: that bucket list musically except for a solo problem. This

1720
02:00:07,640 --> 02:00:10,800
Speaker 1: is the last box. Okay, at this late date, how

1721
02:00:10,920 --> 02:00:13,680
Speaker 1: much of your time has spent on music? How much

1722
02:00:13,720 --> 02:00:17,520
Speaker 1: has spent on defence work? Right now up until this moment?

1723
02:00:18,320 --> 02:00:22,880
Speaker 1: Probably half and half. Because I'm a member of a

1724
02:00:22,960 --> 02:00:27,280
Speaker 1: couple of wonderful bands. One is called American vinyl Um.

1725
02:00:28,600 --> 02:00:33,920
Speaker 1: The other guitar players former guitar player from Boston. The

1726
02:00:34,040 --> 02:00:37,400
Speaker 1: drummer was James Brown's band, and I played with James

1727
02:00:37,440 --> 02:00:40,000
Speaker 1: Brown for a little while. He and I became friends.

1728
02:00:40,480 --> 02:00:43,000
Speaker 1: A keyboard player from the Whalers. I mean it's just

1729
02:00:43,120 --> 02:00:46,640
Speaker 1: awesome band. I mean it's kind of a corporate band.

1730
02:00:46,680 --> 02:00:49,320
Speaker 1: We do a lot of charities, especially for vets. You

1731
02:00:49,400 --> 02:00:51,480
Speaker 1: want to hear the hinds. Just tell us when you

1732
02:00:51,560 --> 02:00:54,000
Speaker 1: want to stop, when when you want us to stop.

1733
02:00:54,760 --> 02:00:58,040
Speaker 1: There's a band called the Coalition of the Willing in Washington,

1734
02:00:58,160 --> 02:01:00,800
Speaker 1: d C. We do a lot of embassy parties and

1735
02:01:00,880 --> 02:01:07,320
Speaker 1: stuff again, fundraisers for vets charities. Myself Tony Blinkin. There's

1736
02:01:07,360 --> 02:01:16,160
Speaker 1: a Secretary of State. Um uh uh. The drummer was

1737
02:01:16,280 --> 02:01:23,400
Speaker 1: former ambassador of Japan. Um the bass player was a

1738
02:01:23,480 --> 02:01:27,200
Speaker 1: former other secondary state from military affairs. I mean that

1739
02:01:27,440 --> 02:01:29,880
Speaker 1: kind of band where you get together and there you

1740
02:01:29,920 --> 02:01:35,200
Speaker 1: know it's it's it's more for fun and raise money.

1741
02:01:36,560 --> 02:01:39,000
Speaker 1: And I played with different bands, you know when the

1742
02:01:39,200 --> 02:01:42,360
Speaker 1: when the There's a band called uh six Wire that

1743
02:01:42,480 --> 02:01:44,440
Speaker 1: I do some shows with. There are a lot of

1744
02:01:44,520 --> 02:01:49,400
Speaker 1: fun band called Side Deal that down in Newport. Best

1745
02:01:49,480 --> 02:01:53,040
Speaker 1: singers I've ever heard. So they say, would come and

1746
02:01:53,080 --> 02:01:55,880
Speaker 1: play pedal steel? Of course I will, you know, so

1747
02:01:57,520 --> 02:02:01,960
Speaker 1: I'd say maybe fifty fifty. We'll see what happens after

1748
02:02:02,120 --> 02:02:07,800
Speaker 1: this first solo endeavor and see how that goes. So obviously,

1749
02:02:08,240 --> 02:02:11,960
Speaker 1: if you're working, you're playing an instrument, But do you

1750
02:02:12,120 --> 02:02:14,800
Speaker 1: play every day or only when you need to. I

1751
02:02:14,920 --> 02:02:18,760
Speaker 1: pretty much play every day for a couple of reasons. One,

1752
02:02:18,800 --> 02:02:21,960
Speaker 1: I like to play the guitar um. A lot of

1753
02:02:22,040 --> 02:02:26,600
Speaker 1: times I'm either um, you know, out with the sidering iron,

1754
02:02:26,680 --> 02:02:30,760
Speaker 1: out my workshop, trying something new. You gotta play it after,

1755
02:02:30,880 --> 02:02:34,600
Speaker 1: you you know, reroute some of the electronics or something.

1756
02:02:35,480 --> 02:02:42,720
Speaker 1: And there's a zen to it that brings me inner peace.

1757
02:02:44,120 --> 02:02:46,800
Speaker 1: And in my day job, there are times when it

1758
02:02:46,920 --> 02:02:53,400
Speaker 1: gets really really difficult. Um. As you know, we live

1759
02:02:53,440 --> 02:02:58,880
Speaker 1: in a world that's not what I think any of us,

1760
02:02:59,120 --> 02:03:02,920
Speaker 1: except for the most twisted individual would defined as optimum

1761
02:03:04,280 --> 02:03:09,280
Speaker 1: people's behavior. I mean, it can get a little tough,

1762
02:03:10,560 --> 02:03:14,360
Speaker 1: but playing the instrument does a couple of things. There's

1763
02:03:14,480 --> 02:03:18,080
Speaker 1: this zen. There also is the connection that very few

1764
02:03:18,160 --> 02:03:23,800
Speaker 1: people really understand. Um. A lot of people come up

1765
02:03:23,840 --> 02:03:26,400
Speaker 1: to me. Quite a few folks have said, hey, I'd

1766
02:03:26,440 --> 02:03:29,800
Speaker 1: really like to help you at what you do? You

1767
02:03:29,880 --> 02:03:33,920
Speaker 1: know in your day job? What can I do? And

1768
02:03:34,320 --> 02:03:37,640
Speaker 1: there are a few folks. Paul Reid Smith came with

1769
02:03:37,720 --> 02:03:41,960
Speaker 1: an idea for an underwater acoustic detection system. Called up

1770
02:03:42,000 --> 02:03:44,280
Speaker 1: my buddy over at the Nable Research Lab. Hey, nov

1771
02:03:45,040 --> 02:03:47,440
Speaker 1: Adam O Carr, you gotta check this out. Now. He's

1772
02:03:47,480 --> 02:03:50,240
Speaker 1: got a company called Digital Harmonic that's doing stuff for

1773
02:03:50,280 --> 02:03:54,640
Speaker 1: the Navy and other folks. There's some very smart people

1774
02:03:54,720 --> 02:03:57,440
Speaker 1: who do that, but most people want to help. And

1775
02:03:57,560 --> 02:04:01,400
Speaker 1: I said, listen, you gotta understand. One of the reasons

1776
02:04:01,440 --> 02:04:03,920
Speaker 1: why I got involved in Afghanistan is because the Taliban

1777
02:04:04,040 --> 02:04:07,360
Speaker 1: was cutting the hands off musicians. Why were they doing that.

1778
02:04:09,080 --> 02:04:13,480
Speaker 1: They were doing it because they're frightened that musicians have

1779
02:04:13,680 --> 02:04:17,040
Speaker 1: the ability and the key to open people's hearts. And

1780
02:04:17,200 --> 02:04:20,760
Speaker 1: you don't want that. If you are dogmatic and you

1781
02:04:20,920 --> 02:04:26,600
Speaker 1: are rigid in New York beliefs, anything else is a threat,

1782
02:04:27,240 --> 02:04:29,960
Speaker 1: so you try to eliminate it. So I tell every

1783
02:04:30,040 --> 02:04:33,760
Speaker 1: musician that I know, every note that you play, every

1784
02:04:34,040 --> 02:04:38,800
Speaker 1: word that you sing, you're fighting for freedom. You are

1785
02:04:38,840 --> 02:04:41,960
Speaker 1: as much of a freedom fighter as anybody on this planet.

1786
02:04:43,080 --> 02:04:49,360
Speaker 1: And so playing the guitar, I believe has a symmetry

1787
02:04:49,480 --> 02:04:51,760
Speaker 1: and a synergy to all that. Because again, like I

1788
02:04:51,840 --> 02:04:55,880
Speaker 1: said before, what brought down the Soviet Union, well, missile defense,

1789
02:04:56,000 --> 02:04:58,760
Speaker 1: no doubt about it. They felt they were sure that

1790
02:04:58,880 --> 02:05:01,680
Speaker 1: we could do it, and we we spent them out

1791
02:05:01,760 --> 02:05:05,440
Speaker 1: of existence. But also I did the first one of

1792
02:05:05,480 --> 02:05:11,000
Speaker 1: the first shows in Rush Soviet Union in kids knew

1793
02:05:11,080 --> 02:05:13,760
Speaker 1: every word to every song and all our music was illegal.

1794
02:05:14,760 --> 02:05:17,640
Speaker 1: What brought down the Soviet Union was French fires, blue

1795
02:05:17,720 --> 02:05:22,200
Speaker 1: chains and Elvis Presley. Soft Power Joseph and I from

1796
02:05:22,320 --> 02:05:25,560
Speaker 1: under Secretarity State who wrote a book called soft Power.

1797
02:05:25,640 --> 02:05:28,720
Speaker 1: I actually wrote the blurb for his book. We'll tell

1798
02:05:28,760 --> 02:05:33,800
Speaker 1: you that the power of culture is massive. Again. Why

1799
02:05:33,840 --> 02:05:36,320
Speaker 1: would the Taliban want to cut your hands off because

1800
02:05:36,360 --> 02:05:40,280
Speaker 1: they're scared to death of what you do? Okay, you

1801
02:05:40,400 --> 02:05:43,880
Speaker 1: talk about doing all these gigs for charity. You talked

1802
02:05:43,920 --> 02:05:46,400
Speaker 1: about Bicker and Fagan not having to go on the

1803
02:05:46,520 --> 02:05:50,600
Speaker 1: road because of publishing royalties. How are you doing financially?

1804
02:05:50,920 --> 02:05:56,960
Speaker 1: Life is good. I cannot complain. Um. I don't wear

1805
02:05:56,960 --> 02:05:59,680
Speaker 1: a lot of I don't have any jewelry. I don't buy.

1806
02:06:00,200 --> 02:06:03,320
Speaker 1: If I need a guitar, usually somebody will say, hey,

1807
02:06:03,920 --> 02:06:07,440
Speaker 1: why don't you It's like Henry take this, get out

1808
02:06:07,480 --> 02:06:14,040
Speaker 1: of my store. Um I life is good. I don't

1809
02:06:14,080 --> 02:06:20,560
Speaker 1: have a very lavish lifestyle and I'm very comfortable. So yeah,

1810
02:06:21,760 --> 02:06:25,800
Speaker 1: um I'm I hesitate to use the word blessed because

1811
02:06:25,840 --> 02:06:29,960
Speaker 1: it has theological connotations to it, and lucky is a

1812
02:06:30,920 --> 02:06:36,080
Speaker 1: a word that is overused and underdefined. I am fortunate.

1813
02:06:37,400 --> 02:06:40,960
Speaker 1: I would say that I've accomplished much of what I

1814
02:06:41,040 --> 02:06:43,760
Speaker 1: ever wanted to accomplish. Like I said, I've only got

1815
02:06:43,800 --> 02:06:47,440
Speaker 1: one box left to check on my bucket list, and

1816
02:06:48,080 --> 02:06:59,960
Speaker 1: it has brought me happiness, fulfillment, satisfaction, adventure, um uh, conflict,

1817
02:07:01,720 --> 02:07:04,720
Speaker 1: all of the things that I think are important. Two

1818
02:07:05,360 --> 02:07:09,640
Speaker 1: eventually get to the point where it used to be.

1819
02:07:09,760 --> 02:07:11,960
Speaker 1: I used to hear people say that he who dies

1820
02:07:12,080 --> 02:07:17,440
Speaker 1: with the most toys winds. No, he who dies with

1821
02:07:17,560 --> 02:07:23,920
Speaker 1: the most stories wind because you can buy toys, you

1822
02:07:24,080 --> 02:07:27,960
Speaker 1: can't buy experience. Okay, just to go one little left

1823
02:07:28,000 --> 02:07:31,200
Speaker 1: field deed tour before we go. Most guitarists have a

1824
02:07:31,280 --> 02:07:35,400
Speaker 1: lot of equipment. They have preferences. How many guitars and

1825
02:07:35,480 --> 02:07:38,720
Speaker 1: he amps do you have and what are your preferences.

1826
02:07:39,200 --> 02:07:40,880
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot, and I used to have

1827
02:07:41,000 --> 02:07:43,560
Speaker 1: a bunch. I used to have like four guitars. And

1828
02:07:46,000 --> 02:07:48,160
Speaker 1: one time John at Whistle and I were out the

1829
02:07:48,280 --> 02:07:53,120
Speaker 1: Rainbow and John I was a wonderful friend. I really

1830
02:07:53,240 --> 02:07:57,600
Speaker 1: miss him, um but we were sitting around and talking

1831
02:07:57,640 --> 02:07:59,880
Speaker 1: about the guitars because he had he was trying to

1832
02:08:00,000 --> 02:08:02,720
Speaker 1: out of place to store some of them, And I said, John,

1833
02:08:04,000 --> 02:08:09,000
Speaker 1: what the hell are we doing? Why are we why

1834
02:08:09,040 --> 02:08:11,960
Speaker 1: are we doing this? When we were children, we would

1835
02:08:12,000 --> 02:08:15,440
Speaker 1: put our face up against the window at Manny's or

1836
02:08:15,520 --> 02:08:18,400
Speaker 1: in Mexico City, I would go to Casaver Camper, Casla

1837
02:08:18,440 --> 02:08:21,920
Speaker 1: Wagner and look at a Fender jazz Master that cost

1838
02:08:22,000 --> 02:08:25,160
Speaker 1: almost a thousand dollars. So I'd have to make do

1839
02:08:25,320 --> 02:08:28,440
Speaker 1: with something else. And so you want to own all

1840
02:08:28,520 --> 02:08:33,640
Speaker 1: of these things. You want to you know, Um, I

1841
02:08:33,760 --> 02:08:37,040
Speaker 1: guess it's it's residual. And I said, this is stupid.

1842
02:08:37,840 --> 02:08:41,000
Speaker 1: We have all these instruments that are beautiful instruments and

1843
02:08:41,160 --> 02:08:45,000
Speaker 1: nobody is playing them. Let's just get rid of them.

1844
02:08:46,000 --> 02:08:48,840
Speaker 1: And he said, you're absolutely right. The hell with this,

1845
02:08:49,600 --> 02:08:53,680
Speaker 1: Let's get rid of everything. So I probably have maybe

1846
02:08:53,920 --> 02:08:58,760
Speaker 1: forty guitars, which may sound like a lot, but if

1847
02:08:58,840 --> 02:09:01,360
Speaker 1: you do studio work, you really do need a good

1848
02:09:01,440 --> 02:09:04,840
Speaker 1: toolbox of a number of different instruments to be able

1849
02:09:04,840 --> 02:09:08,560
Speaker 1: to fulfill the needs of varied people who have varied

1850
02:09:08,640 --> 02:09:13,840
Speaker 1: musical tastes and very musical styles. Um. Mostly I'm a

1851
02:09:13,960 --> 02:09:16,920
Speaker 1: rolling guy. But with Roland for forty seven years now,

1852
02:09:17,640 --> 02:09:21,720
Speaker 1: helping design instruments for them was involved in the guitar

1853
02:09:21,840 --> 02:09:26,720
Speaker 1: synthesizing project from the beginning. Actually used the first prototype

1854
02:09:26,720 --> 02:09:32,320
Speaker 1: guitar synthesizer on Bad Girls, Uh Donna Summersong, which I

1855
02:09:32,400 --> 02:09:35,120
Speaker 1: had done just after I'd done Hot Stuff. Because I

1856
02:09:35,160 --> 02:09:37,640
Speaker 1: didn't have any guitars. Everything was on the road. I

1857
02:09:37,760 --> 02:09:40,280
Speaker 1: went down a guitar center, brought up Burns Bis Jr.

1858
02:09:40,680 --> 02:09:43,880
Speaker 1: For bucks, bought a six pack of beer in a

1859
02:09:44,040 --> 02:09:46,480
Speaker 1: deluxe river with me, went down and did Hot Stuff.

1860
02:09:47,320 --> 02:09:51,120
Speaker 1: What the hell you know? Why not? Um? Again, it's

1861
02:09:51,200 --> 02:09:54,520
Speaker 1: not the instrument. I think it's the player. Um. So

1862
02:09:54,680 --> 02:09:58,240
Speaker 1: I don't have a lot of instruments. Uh. And I

1863
02:09:58,320 --> 02:10:01,040
Speaker 1: think John and I came to the rough conclusion and

1864
02:10:01,120 --> 02:10:03,960
Speaker 1: hopefully all those guitars are out there being played by

1865
02:10:04,000 --> 02:10:06,840
Speaker 1: people who really appreciate it. So I don't have a

1866
02:10:06,960 --> 02:10:09,960
Speaker 1: lot of equipment. Okay, Scunk, this has been wonderful. I

1867
02:10:10,000 --> 02:10:13,280
Speaker 1: would love to go deeper into the defense story, but

1868
02:10:13,360 --> 02:10:15,440
Speaker 1: I think we've run out of time for today. I

1869
02:10:15,600 --> 02:10:17,680
Speaker 1: want to thank you so much for your time and

1870
02:10:17,840 --> 02:10:20,960
Speaker 1: wish you good luck on your final bucket list item.

1871
02:10:21,720 --> 02:10:24,240
Speaker 1: Thanks for doing this well, thank you very much for

1872
02:10:24,440 --> 02:10:28,960
Speaker 1: even asking. It's let's take it as a pup thank

1873
02:10:29,000 --> 02:10:31,840
Speaker 1: you very much. Until next time, this is Bob left

1874
02:10:31,880 --> 02:10:32,200
Speaker 1: sex