1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:05,800 Speaker 1: What's badly introducing my podcast, Sophie's ashamed to me. I'm 2 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:08,799 Speaker 1: Robert Evans hosted Behind the Bastards, the podcast where every 3 00:00:08,800 --> 00:00:12,160 Speaker 1: week we talk about a different terrible person in exhaustive detail, 4 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:16,000 Speaker 1: and I come up with an introduction that's either embarrassingly bad, 5 00:00:16,239 --> 00:00:19,680 Speaker 1: entertainingly bad, or just plain lame in in. Today it 6 00:00:19,760 --> 00:00:23,920 Speaker 1: was the latter. Sophie agrees with my guest today, Eric Lampere, 7 00:00:24,160 --> 00:00:27,120 Speaker 1: Eric Helosa, how are you doing today? I'm doing really good. 8 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: Thank you. I'm actually very excited about this because I 9 00:00:29,880 --> 00:00:33,320 Speaker 1: don't often get thrown into a podcast without any prior 10 00:00:33,360 --> 00:00:36,040 Speaker 1: knowledge of what's going to happen. Well, that's the way 11 00:00:36,080 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: we like to do it here. Yeah, we like. We 12 00:00:37,920 --> 00:00:40,519 Speaker 1: like our guests are are subjects to be a mystery. 13 00:00:40,560 --> 00:00:42,600 Speaker 1: The guests are a mystery. That would be very a 14 00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,840 Speaker 1: different podcast. Yeah, that would be Robert Evans invites people 15 00:00:45,840 --> 00:00:47,839 Speaker 1: in off the street. I also like that you've got 16 00:00:47,840 --> 00:00:50,239 Speaker 1: a machete on the table, just just to let me 17 00:00:50,280 --> 00:00:52,519 Speaker 1: know who is boss here. Well, now you know, this 18 00:00:52,560 --> 00:00:55,600 Speaker 1: is a very democratic machete. Anybody can use the machete 19 00:00:55,600 --> 00:00:57,720 Speaker 1: for any purpose if you feel the need to hit something. 20 00:00:58,160 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: I have it on good authority that all of the 21 00:01:00,000 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 1: equipment in here can be hit with the machetes. That correct, Sophie. 22 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:04,839 Speaker 1: We're allowed to damage all the equipment, all of the walls, 23 00:01:05,160 --> 00:01:09,480 Speaker 1: the windows, the poison room. Well, technically can can be. 24 00:01:09,720 --> 00:01:12,640 Speaker 1: It is possible. I mean theoretically, this is a big machete. 25 00:01:13,240 --> 00:01:17,080 Speaker 1: He's right, I think you want something would probably be 26 00:01:17,160 --> 00:01:18,560 Speaker 1: throwned upon. I'll tell you what, I don't want my 27 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:21,560 Speaker 1: fingerprints on there. I don't know. I don't know you 28 00:01:21,600 --> 00:01:24,960 Speaker 1: well enough to know what you're gonna do. I had 29 00:01:25,200 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: very different plans. I had very different plans for what 30 00:01:28,560 --> 00:01:32,280 Speaker 1: to do with the machete before you said that, Well, 31 00:01:33,959 --> 00:01:35,840 Speaker 1: I don't know who to guess to joke about murdering, 32 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:38,680 Speaker 1: Um damn. That would have been a great time to 33 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:42,520 Speaker 1: joke about. Good old Yeah, good old fashioned murder. Speaking 34 00:01:42,520 --> 00:01:46,480 Speaker 1: of good old fashioned murder, today, we're talking about new 35 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:49,200 Speaker 1: fangled kinds of murder, the kind of murder where you 36 00:01:49,320 --> 00:01:51,560 Speaker 1: just talk to people and write bad books and it 37 00:01:51,640 --> 00:01:55,639 Speaker 1: leads to unspeakable human suffering and possibly millions of deaths. 38 00:01:56,280 --> 00:01:58,200 Speaker 1: Isn't that a cool thing to talk about? That's one 39 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: hell of a murder. Yeah, it is. It is the 40 00:02:00,280 --> 00:02:03,120 Speaker 1: guy that we're talking about today. The actual death toll 41 00:02:03,200 --> 00:02:05,840 Speaker 1: from his work can't quite be quantified yet, but I 42 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:09,440 Speaker 1: think one of these days he'll be recognized as real 43 00:02:09,480 --> 00:02:14,320 Speaker 1: piece of shit. I'm gonna start with a little bit 44 00:02:14,320 --> 00:02:16,480 Speaker 1: of a winding introduction, so I hope you'll forgive me 45 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:20,239 Speaker 1: for that, Eric. When I was sixteen years old, Michael 46 00:02:20,240 --> 00:02:23,120 Speaker 1: Crichton released State of Fear, the second to last novel 47 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:25,160 Speaker 1: he would publish in his lifetime. Now, I was a 48 00:02:25,160 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 1: big fan of Crechton's work ever since stumbling across the 49 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,440 Speaker 1: Lost World in second or third grade, I dutifully devoured 50 00:02:30,480 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: his canon. State of Fear was decidedly different from his 51 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: prior works, though. The plot was that a group of 52 00:02:35,680 --> 00:02:39,640 Speaker 1: radical environmentalists using experimental technology were attempting to create a 53 00:02:39,680 --> 00:02:42,400 Speaker 1: series of natural disasters in order to convince the public 54 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:44,960 Speaker 1: of the dangers of global warming, because of course it 55 00:02:45,000 --> 00:02:49,920 Speaker 1: wasn't real now. The book was filled with graphs and 56 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,359 Speaker 1: charts and like quotes from actual scientific studies, which is 57 00:02:53,480 --> 00:02:57,160 Speaker 1: not common for a sci fi techno thriller. It included 58 00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,920 Speaker 1: a thirty page bibliography, all of which was angled at 59 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:02,519 Speaker 1: convincing the reader that global warming was not that big 60 00:03:02,520 --> 00:03:06,760 Speaker 1: a deal. Actually cool book. Yeah. While a work of fiction, 61 00:03:06,800 --> 00:03:09,680 Speaker 1: State of Fear also served as Crechton's manifesto against what 62 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:13,920 Speaker 1: he called the politico legal media complex should politicize science 63 00:03:13,919 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: and unjustly scared people about the dangers of climate change. 64 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 1: So the fun book to read at age sixteen. Crechton's 65 00:03:21,680 --> 00:03:24,040 Speaker 1: work was a massive success, as most of his books were, 66 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:25,840 Speaker 1: because the man did know how to write a crowd 67 00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: pleasing thriller, even if it was a crazy piece of 68 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:33,800 Speaker 1: anti climate change propaganda. Received widespread praise from conservatives. Senator 69 00:03:33,880 --> 00:03:36,960 Speaker 1: Jim im Hoff declared it required reading for the Senate 70 00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:40,560 Speaker 1: Committee on Environmental in Public Works. He called on Crechton 71 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 1: to testify before said committee in two thousand five. Yeah, 72 00:03:45,440 --> 00:03:48,640 Speaker 1: if you want, If you want, like a real nutshell 73 00:03:48,920 --> 00:03:52,680 Speaker 1: encapsulation of how fucked American politics has always been. The 74 00:03:52,760 --> 00:03:56,320 Speaker 1: Senate called on a science fiction the author of Jurassic 75 00:03:56,360 --> 00:03:58,920 Speaker 1: Parks to testify on climate change. That was the guy 76 00:03:58,920 --> 00:04:03,200 Speaker 1: that blends for dogs with dinosaur d n A. They've 77 00:04:03,240 --> 00:04:06,480 Speaker 1: not seen Jurassic Park, jesssic Park two three, jesssic World. 78 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: It's bound to lead the disaster, Yeah, exactly. They trust him, 79 00:04:10,440 --> 00:04:12,920 Speaker 1: how can they trust him. It's like if you had 80 00:04:13,080 --> 00:04:15,920 Speaker 1: if there was like a clown focused terrorist group and 81 00:04:15,960 --> 00:04:18,640 Speaker 1: you called Stephen King to speak to like like the 82 00:04:18,640 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: Senate about terrorism and stuff because he wrote it. But 83 00:04:22,560 --> 00:04:24,280 Speaker 1: I guess King though it would be interesting to get 84 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:25,880 Speaker 1: into his mind. I'd love to have him in the 85 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:28,640 Speaker 1: sort of c I A or FBI table. Yeah, I 86 00:04:28,680 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: do feel like King would actually have some insight into 87 00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: the mind of a terrorist. Yeah, isn't Einstein that says, 88 00:04:34,520 --> 00:04:37,480 Speaker 1: you know, the true sign of intelligence is not knowledge 89 00:04:37,480 --> 00:04:42,640 Speaker 1: but imagination. And potentially maybe that's why Crichton is trusted. 90 00:04:43,040 --> 00:04:47,080 Speaker 1: He was not a dumb man, although like he had 91 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,440 Speaker 1: a very specific kind of intelligence. Michael Crichton, A lot 92 00:04:49,440 --> 00:04:52,159 Speaker 1: of people don't know this. Um was a trained doctor. 93 00:04:52,520 --> 00:04:57,160 Speaker 1: I forget he went on he created Yeah, he's the 94 00:04:57,200 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: creator of the R And he was a medical student. 95 00:04:59,800 --> 00:05:02,200 Speaker 1: He at his m d and then kind of piste 96 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,280 Speaker 1: off the college. He got his m d. Yet because 97 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:05,960 Speaker 1: he then didn't work as a doctor and went on 98 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,520 Speaker 1: to become a science fiction author and like apparently just 99 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:11,479 Speaker 1: got the m d so that he could like write 100 00:05:11,480 --> 00:05:16,120 Speaker 1: good science fiction about medical stuff like um terminal strain 101 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:18,560 Speaker 1: or whatever the hell that book was um, but yeah, 102 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,839 Speaker 1: so he's he's he's not a dumb man, but he 103 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:22,480 Speaker 1: has This is the kind of problem you let come 104 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:24,640 Speaker 1: up with a lot, especially in the global warm and debate, 105 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: people who are not dumb but have a very specific 106 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 1: kind of education and intelligence, and then assumed that they 107 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 1: understand climate science. That's like, yeah, that's what this episode 108 00:05:34,200 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: is really about. So yeah, Crichton Yeah, was called upon 109 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:42,080 Speaker 1: to testify before the Senate Committee on Environmental in Public 110 00:05:42,120 --> 00:05:44,880 Speaker 1: Works in two thousand five. In two thousand and six, 111 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,400 Speaker 1: the APG awarded Michael It's Journalism Award, which sounds impressive 112 00:05:49,440 --> 00:05:52,400 Speaker 1: until you learn that the APG is the American Association 113 00:05:52,440 --> 00:06:00,560 Speaker 1: of Petroleum Geologists. Yeah, famed unbiased source sub climate journalism. 114 00:06:00,880 --> 00:06:04,119 Speaker 1: Actual climate scientists, of course, did not like State of Fear. 115 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:06,360 Speaker 1: Several of the people who authored studies that crit and 116 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:08,400 Speaker 1: used to prove his points even spoke up to complain 117 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:12,800 Speaker 1: that he completely misinterpreted or outright misrepresented their research. Peter Doran, 118 00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:15,680 Speaker 1: author of a Nature paper on cooling in the Antarctic, 119 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,520 Speaker 1: echoed the concerns of many when he complained, our results 120 00:06:18,560 --> 00:06:21,440 Speaker 1: have been misused as evidence against global warming. This is 121 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,719 Speaker 1: a famous study that cited by anti climate change people 122 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,440 Speaker 1: that how like there's ice and like one of the 123 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:28,600 Speaker 1: poles is increasing and they're like, look look at these 124 00:06:28,600 --> 00:06:30,760 Speaker 1: ice sheets are actually getting bigger. So and it's like, 125 00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,160 Speaker 1: well no, but the other one is getting smaller. In 126 00:06:33,200 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: the total amount of ice lost from the polls does 127 00:06:35,839 --> 00:06:39,960 Speaker 1: not over like doesn't doesn't like they don't balance out. 128 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: We're net down a shitload. Eyes thank you, Sophie. So 129 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,000 Speaker 1: if he's correcting my mic placement, because I'm here in 130 00:06:47,040 --> 00:06:49,640 Speaker 1: the office this time and she gets to micromanage me, 131 00:06:50,720 --> 00:06:56,960 Speaker 1: but I love. I was just saying, I thank you. 132 00:06:57,000 --> 00:07:01,600 Speaker 1: Is this shattering Greek pillar that's a shattering ashes from well, 133 00:07:01,720 --> 00:07:04,159 Speaker 1: there's it's from a couple of places the Roman empires where, 134 00:07:04,440 --> 00:07:07,799 Speaker 1: but they also there's there's big bronze ones up on Congress. 135 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:13,320 Speaker 1: It's a symbola. Yeah, sorry, Sophie, I didn't mean that. 136 00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna go cry. I've heard Sophie. Do you 137 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,720 Speaker 1: want to hit something with a machette? I wouldn't hand 138 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 1: that to me, right, Well, I'm just trying to make 139 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:29,840 Speaker 1: your podcast better. Well, Sophie, I want everyone to hear 140 00:07:29,920 --> 00:07:32,880 Speaker 1: every single word that you say. Robin. Now you've shamed me, 141 00:07:32,920 --> 00:07:35,960 Speaker 1: and now I feel bad. Great, continue, I'm once again 142 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,880 Speaker 1: the bastard of my podcast. Which is it takes one 143 00:07:38,920 --> 00:07:40,560 Speaker 1: to know one that you have to dive into the 144 00:07:40,680 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: character to truly understand the complexities of bastardry. As Nietzsche said, 145 00:07:45,560 --> 00:07:48,720 Speaker 1: if you stare into the abyss long enough, eventually you 146 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:55,800 Speaker 1: hurt your boss's feelings. Natsch was a very poetic man. Yeah, 147 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 1: he was a great podcaster, a little bit at very 148 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:02,960 Speaker 1: anti semitic really, but it was a different time podcasting 149 00:08:03,040 --> 00:08:05,720 Speaker 1: was in this evolved an art form. I didn't even 150 00:08:05,760 --> 00:08:08,000 Speaker 1: know how to record things. Anyway, I should continue with 151 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:10,960 Speaker 1: the episode. Uh so. Peter Duran, author of that Nature 152 00:08:10,960 --> 00:08:13,040 Speaker 1: paper and Cooling in the Arctic, complained that yeah, that 153 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,360 Speaker 1: Crichton had misinterpreted his results and misused them as evidence 154 00:08:16,560 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 1: against global warming. The American Geophysical Union, which includes more 155 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,000 Speaker 1: than fifty scientists, stated unequittically that state of fear quote 156 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:28,120 Speaker 1: changed public perception of scientists, especially researchers, and global warming 157 00:08:28,160 --> 00:08:31,640 Speaker 1: towards suspicion and hostility. This is a big books, like 158 00:08:31,720 --> 00:08:33,960 Speaker 1: number one on the charts. For quite a while, it 159 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,160 Speaker 1: was like a very popular release that had a real 160 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:38,760 Speaker 1: negative impact on global warming. And this is the place 161 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:41,839 Speaker 1: where I admit shamefully that young Republican Robert Evans found 162 00:08:41,840 --> 00:08:44,280 Speaker 1: this book deeply compelling. Of course, even then, I was 163 00:08:44,280 --> 00:08:45,760 Speaker 1: a bit too savvy to take the words of a 164 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:48,200 Speaker 1: science fiction author as the end of the argument against 165 00:08:48,360 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 1: vast scientific consensus. So I started going through the bibliography, 166 00:08:51,679 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: and while I was doing it that I came upon 167 00:08:53,760 --> 00:08:55,680 Speaker 1: the one work that Michael seemed to hold in the 168 00:08:55,760 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: highest regard, a book called The Skeptical Environmentalist by Bjorn Lumborg. 169 00:09:01,840 --> 00:09:05,160 Speaker 1: Have you ever heard of Biorn motherfucking Lumborg. But I'm 170 00:09:05,200 --> 00:09:09,760 Speaker 1: guessing he's Scandinavian. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think Danish. Um. Yeah. 171 00:09:09,960 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 1: So there's a couple of versions of the Bijorn Lumborg 172 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,640 Speaker 1: story that you'll hear. I'm gonna read one paragraph that's 173 00:09:16,640 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: sort of like how he's generally introduced when you read 174 00:09:19,280 --> 00:09:22,920 Speaker 1: a news article about this guy. A former member of Greenpeace, 175 00:09:22,960 --> 00:09:26,640 Speaker 1: a self described leftist, a backpacking outdoorsman, and a vegetarian. 176 00:09:26,720 --> 00:09:29,280 Speaker 1: Lumborg in nineteen nine seven, was paging through a copy 177 00:09:29,280 --> 00:09:31,880 Speaker 1: of Wired magazine in a bookstore in San Francisco. He 178 00:09:31,880 --> 00:09:34,520 Speaker 1: happened across an interview with Julian Simon and University of 179 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: Maryland economists, known for his optimistic prediction that population growth 180 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:41,360 Speaker 1: was unlikely to exhaust the planet's resources. Later that year 181 00:09:41,360 --> 00:09:43,960 Speaker 1: and intrigued, Lumborg set about in Denmark with ten of 182 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: his brightest students to examine Simon's claims. Expecting to prove 183 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:49,840 Speaker 1: Simon wrong, Lumborg and his students were surprised to find 184 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:51,920 Speaker 1: that many of the economist predictions about the state of 185 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,960 Speaker 1: the environment were on the mark. This discovery led Lombard 186 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:56,680 Speaker 1: to pen a few op eds for a center left 187 00:09:56,720 --> 00:09:59,520 Speaker 1: Danish newspaper and eventually the publication in Denmark of the 188 00:09:59,520 --> 00:10:03,960 Speaker 1: first Day of The Skeptical Environmentalist. Now, the book was 189 00:10:04,040 --> 00:10:07,960 Speaker 1: essentially a thoroughly argued case against the scientific consensus on 190 00:10:08,000 --> 00:10:10,880 Speaker 1: global warming. Lombard pointed out what he called a number 191 00:10:10,880 --> 00:10:13,960 Speaker 1: of inconsistencies that he claimed to have uncovered between the 192 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,959 Speaker 1: hard scientific data and the party line of climate scientists 193 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:20,440 Speaker 1: and environmental activists. Lomborg would use what looked to my 194 00:10:20,480 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: sixteen year old brain like compelling scientific data to argue 195 00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:26,880 Speaker 1: his points. Among other things, that Lombard argued, number one, 196 00:10:27,000 --> 00:10:29,760 Speaker 1: species are not going extinct at a weirdly high rate. 197 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: Number two, the world is not losing ice, and thus 198 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:35,400 Speaker 1: the seas are in no real danger of rising. Number three, 199 00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: global temperatures aren't increasing in any worrying way. And number 200 00:10:38,520 --> 00:10:41,320 Speaker 1: four there's more trees than ever. So what are environmentalists 201 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: worried about? It sounds silly like talking about now in 202 00:10:46,559 --> 00:10:49,680 Speaker 1: two nineteen, but in two thousand one it was a 203 00:10:49,720 --> 00:10:52,719 Speaker 1: different media ecosystem, Like the fact that the world was 204 00:10:52,760 --> 00:10:57,199 Speaker 1: shifting its climactic pants was not quite as obvious to everybody. 205 00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 1: The whole climate change debate has been around one a 206 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,360 Speaker 1: long time, in the eighties at least at least oh yeah, 207 00:11:03,400 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 1: and really even before that. Um Murray book Chin, who 208 00:11:06,640 --> 00:11:09,439 Speaker 1: is a philosopher I'm a fan of um, kind of 209 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: an anarchist political thinker in nine in the nineteen sixties, 210 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: wrote a lengthy series of essays talking about how, uh, 211 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:19,120 Speaker 1: carbon emissions and like fossil fuse we're going to lead 212 00:11:19,160 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 1: to like massive climate catastrophe unless we adopted like vastly 213 00:11:22,600 --> 00:11:25,280 Speaker 1: radically different ways of living that we're like not compatible 214 00:11:25,320 --> 00:11:28,319 Speaker 1: with kind of the consumptive capitalist system that we existed 215 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:31,360 Speaker 1: in currently. Like that's nineteen sixty five. He's writing this 216 00:11:31,400 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: stuff very clearly later. So, yeah, people knew about this 217 00:11:33,679 --> 00:11:36,760 Speaker 1: for decades. It's just that nobody took it seriously until 218 00:11:36,800 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: we had what three category five hurricanes hit the US 219 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:41,920 Speaker 1: East Coast in the course of like a y area. 220 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:46,640 Speaker 1: But even that doesn't seem to be enough evidence for people. Well, 221 00:11:47,200 --> 00:11:51,960 Speaker 1: fine fastening, and there's an elemententy that's sort of not sympathizers. 222 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 1: But until you experience something, you can't actually know anything's real. 223 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Speaker 1: And so when people say, oh, you know, it's all 224 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:02,040 Speaker 1: melting beyond and the poles and stuff, until they actually 225 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,600 Speaker 1: visibly see it, they can't fully understand the complexities of it. 226 00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,600 Speaker 1: So um, it's that. It's that Christopher Nolan mentions in 227 00:12:10,600 --> 00:12:12,920 Speaker 1: Inception and about how like one wants a seed is 228 00:12:12,920 --> 00:12:15,079 Speaker 1: planted in your head, it's very hard to sort of 229 00:12:15,160 --> 00:12:17,880 Speaker 1: un route. Yeah, and if you don't have trust in 230 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,719 Speaker 1: your government, then why would you trust that. They say, 231 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:23,760 Speaker 1: but the climate is being destroyed and I'm just talking 232 00:12:23,760 --> 00:12:27,480 Speaker 1: to hear like, because obviously the climate is changing drastically. Well, 233 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:28,920 Speaker 1: you need to do is rub your hands together and 234 00:12:28,960 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: you understand the friction causes heat. And the more people 235 00:12:31,960 --> 00:12:33,600 Speaker 1: that are on the planet, the more cars there are, 236 00:12:33,640 --> 00:12:35,839 Speaker 1: the more food there needs to be grown. All of that. 237 00:12:36,200 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: It is logical, But I am trying to understand why 238 00:12:39,040 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: people don't believe. You know, there's a lot of reasons. 239 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:43,880 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it comes down to people 240 00:12:43,960 --> 00:12:46,920 Speaker 1: like Lumbourg because there's this this kind of war that 241 00:12:47,040 --> 00:12:52,480 Speaker 1: really started in the nineties, the late nineties against scientific consensus. 242 00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:55,400 Speaker 1: Like there was a time when if scientists in like 243 00:12:55,520 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: nature came out with a study saying like, we've got 244 00:12:57,920 --> 00:13:01,000 Speaker 1: a big fucking problem. Um, the idea that you'd have 245 00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:03,280 Speaker 1: a bunch of people just rejected out of hand because 246 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,120 Speaker 1: they believe there's a conspiracy by China to like convince 247 00:13:07,160 --> 00:13:10,000 Speaker 1: people global warming is reel like that would that would 248 00:13:10,120 --> 00:13:13,319 Speaker 1: sound absurd to people, And now the president has essentially 249 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,760 Speaker 1: spread that same line, like it's um, this is a 250 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:19,320 Speaker 1: lot of this is like where we are right now 251 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: is the culmination of a process that lumb war was 252 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:25,000 Speaker 1: a major part of starting this, this war against kind 253 00:13:25,040 --> 00:13:28,720 Speaker 1: of an understand a shared understanding of reality. Um. And 254 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:30,560 Speaker 1: part part of the problem is that this issue was 255 00:13:30,600 --> 00:13:33,200 Speaker 1: so politicized and it's like, I don't think al Gore 256 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,280 Speaker 1: was wrong in making it like a key cornerstone of 257 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:39,839 Speaker 1: like his presidential campaign and just like his personal activism, 258 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:43,040 Speaker 1: but the fact that Gore was associated with Clinton and 259 00:13:43,080 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 1: that Republican having grown up in a Republican home, I 260 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:47,240 Speaker 1: can tell you the kind of hatred of the Clintons 261 00:13:47,280 --> 00:13:49,680 Speaker 1: that existed in the late nineties and in two thousand 262 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:55,960 Speaker 1: was beyond rational. It was. It was a kind of 263 00:13:56,040 --> 00:13:59,240 Speaker 1: mania that overtook the conservative right and that is still 264 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:03,520 Speaker 1: very much asn't in prevalent um. And so because al Gore, 265 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:06,040 Speaker 1: who was connected to the Clintons, was making this point, 266 00:14:06,040 --> 00:14:07,959 Speaker 1: it had to be fake and so that was a 267 00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,000 Speaker 1: big driver of all of this. So there's a lot 268 00:14:10,000 --> 00:14:12,120 Speaker 1: of this that's tied together. It's it's the end of 269 00:14:12,120 --> 00:14:15,439 Speaker 1: a process in which kind of at the the apex 270 00:14:15,520 --> 00:14:19,480 Speaker 1: point of the process, nobody believes anything. There's no sort 271 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:22,120 Speaker 1: of authority beyond the one guy that you like, if 272 00:14:22,160 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: you're that sort of person or whatever pundits you trust. Um, 273 00:14:26,960 --> 00:14:32,080 Speaker 1: And yeah, it's it's a real problem. Yeah, um, it's interesting. 274 00:14:32,120 --> 00:14:34,960 Speaker 1: I also wonder though, if all the people are pushing 275 00:14:35,480 --> 00:14:39,000 Speaker 1: the climate change is a hoax thing generally are quite 276 00:14:39,000 --> 00:14:43,080 Speaker 1: wealthy well, and they won't be affected by ultimately, ultimately, 277 00:14:43,160 --> 00:14:48,080 Speaker 1: you know, the world and the humanity will survive. Right now, 278 00:14:48,120 --> 00:14:52,080 Speaker 1: there may be millions billions of death caused because the 279 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:54,800 Speaker 1: climate change, but ultimately humanity will survive. And I think 280 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:57,080 Speaker 1: they're very rich, will always be good. They could just 281 00:14:57,120 --> 00:14:59,560 Speaker 1: move somewhere else. Yeah, they'll move somewhere. That's going to 282 00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,840 Speaker 1: go from having brutal winters to being like Los Angeles 283 00:15:02,880 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: when Los Angeles burns down, So ultimately there and give 284 00:15:05,520 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: a ship. Well, yeah, that's actually kind of where this 285 00:15:08,280 --> 00:15:12,280 Speaker 1: is headed a little bit. Yeah, no, no, no, no, 286 00:15:12,320 --> 00:15:15,080 Speaker 1: this is this is what the podcast is for. So 287 00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: the unavoidable conclusion from reading Lomborg's book and taking it 288 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,520 Speaker 1: seriously was that everything was more or less hunky dory 289 00:15:21,560 --> 00:15:24,360 Speaker 1: with the climate. Uh Now, Bjorn did not deny that 290 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:26,440 Speaker 1: there were some environmental problems. He didn't even come out 291 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,080 Speaker 1: and deny that human beings were changing the climate. But 292 00:15:29,160 --> 00:15:31,240 Speaker 1: his argument was that all of the issues we were 293 00:15:31,240 --> 00:15:33,720 Speaker 1: having were things that could be solved by better conservation 294 00:15:33,760 --> 00:15:38,360 Speaker 1: and modest infrastructure investments. Nobody needed to say stop driving cars, 295 00:15:38,480 --> 00:15:42,200 Speaker 1: or stop burning coal or stop fracking gas. The people 296 00:15:42,280 --> 00:15:45,000 Speaker 1: telling us to do all that, we're just fearmongers. That's 297 00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,880 Speaker 1: that's Bjorn Lamborg's line. Now, sixteen year old Robert Evans 298 00:15:48,960 --> 00:15:51,240 Speaker 1: took Lumborg's book apart and used many bits arguments for 299 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,560 Speaker 1: a series of debates in his speech and debate class. 300 00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 1: And then he grew up and into the real world 301 00:15:55,720 --> 00:15:58,840 Speaker 1: and stopped being a young Republican. Somewhere between reading the 302 00:15:58,880 --> 00:16:01,880 Speaker 1: work of actual climate scientists, which Lumborg is not, and 303 00:16:01,960 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 1: living through four of the hottest years on record, he 304 00:16:04,440 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 1: came around on the whole climate change thing. But I 305 00:16:08,480 --> 00:16:11,120 Speaker 1: was not the only person fooled by Bijorn Lumborg. The 306 00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 1: median narrative around him was just too good for bunches 307 00:16:13,600 --> 00:16:16,880 Speaker 1: of overly credulous journalists to not flock to him. One 308 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 1: example of this was a two thousand and one New 309 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:21,680 Speaker 1: York Times profile released right before the publication of the 310 00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: English translation of The Skeptical Environmentalist. The title scientist at 311 00:16:25,880 --> 00:16:30,120 Speaker 1: work from an unlikely corner eco optimism. That's nice eco 312 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 1: optimism quote. Strange to say the author of this happy 313 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,800 Speaker 1: thesis is not a steely eyed economist at a conservative 314 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,880 Speaker 1: think tank, but a vegetarian, backpack toting academic who was 315 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:42,600 Speaker 1: a member of Greenpeace for four years. He is doctor 316 00:16:42,680 --> 00:16:45,640 Speaker 1: Bjorn Lumborg, a thirty six year old political scientist and 317 00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:50,000 Speaker 1: professor of statistics at the University of our hosts in Denmark. Now. 318 00:16:50,080 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: The article went into loving detail about how Lumborg had 319 00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: been converted from environmental apocalypticism by reading the work of 320 00:16:56,120 --> 00:16:58,200 Speaker 1: Dr Julian Simon, Who's that doctor we talked about a 321 00:16:58,200 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 1: little earlier. Now. Simon is famous for having some very 322 00:17:01,040 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: public arguments with a guy named Dr Paul or Like 323 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,000 Speaker 1: over resource scarcity. Erlick was like a doom kind of 324 00:17:07,000 --> 00:17:08,960 Speaker 1: a doomsayer. He wrote like a book about how like 325 00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:11,880 Speaker 1: human population was going to like reach an apocalyptic level 326 00:17:11,960 --> 00:17:15,399 Speaker 1: and cause massive resource scarcity, and his predictions turned out 327 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: to be largely untrue. And Simon actually made a bet 328 00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:20,240 Speaker 1: with him about, like, you know, they picked five resources 329 00:17:20,280 --> 00:17:22,520 Speaker 1: and Airlock bet that they would all increase in cost 330 00:17:22,640 --> 00:17:25,200 Speaker 1: over the next couple of decades, and Simon bet that 331 00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:28,439 Speaker 1: they would decrease, and Simon wound up being right. Um, 332 00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:32,360 Speaker 1: can I ask you, do you think that people aren't 333 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,080 Speaker 1: necessary worried about the whole climate change thing as a whole, 334 00:17:36,280 --> 00:17:40,000 Speaker 1: as an actual doomsday possibility because they've gone through so 335 00:17:40,040 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 1: many doomsday possibilities. So we've had the millennium bug, we 336 00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,119 Speaker 1: you guys have had the nuclear threats from Russia. We 337 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: are constantly barraged by these end of the world scenarios 338 00:17:51,760 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 1: that never usually happened. That when we are presented with 339 00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:58,399 Speaker 1: one that's actually in front of us, happening live in 340 00:17:58,400 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: front of our eyes, that most people can just brush 341 00:18:01,720 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 1: it aside because I've experienced other doomsday scenars that have 342 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:08,440 Speaker 1: actually just sort of gone bine wind. I absolutely think 343 00:18:08,560 --> 00:18:10,960 Speaker 1: that kind of particularly some of the Hollywood like the 344 00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,560 Speaker 1: Day After Tomorrow ship, like that's that's actually really hurt 345 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:16,600 Speaker 1: the cause of getting people to take this seriously, because 346 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,960 Speaker 1: the problem is not um that the world is going 347 00:18:20,000 --> 00:18:23,199 Speaker 1: to end. Human beings are very adaptable. The majority of 348 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:25,560 Speaker 1: us will find a way to survive no matter what 349 00:18:25,680 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: happens to the climate. Like even if a fucking asteroid hits, 350 00:18:28,240 --> 00:18:29,760 Speaker 1: I have no doubt that a lot of people will 351 00:18:29,800 --> 00:18:31,560 Speaker 1: figure out how to make that ship work, because we're 352 00:18:31,560 --> 00:18:35,600 Speaker 1: just we're cunning little bastards. Um. The problem is that, 353 00:18:35,640 --> 00:18:37,800 Speaker 1: like it's not an apocalypse thing, it's like what what 354 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:39,439 Speaker 1: do we want the world to be? What do we 355 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:41,520 Speaker 1: want the world to be for our kids, for our grandkids. 356 00:18:41,520 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: Do we want it to be the sun racked nightmare 357 00:18:43,800 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 1: healthscape where people knife fight to death over jugs of water? Um, 358 00:18:48,359 --> 00:18:51,360 Speaker 1: A lot of people don't. Yeah, that's that's another scary thing. 359 00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:55,720 Speaker 1: Is I am hoarding water and nights? But that's very 360 00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:58,640 Speaker 1: little to do with the podcasting machete. Um No, it's 361 00:18:58,720 --> 00:19:00,920 Speaker 1: it is weird how a lot of people will uh, 362 00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,440 Speaker 1: you know, height being by themselves, which means that they 363 00:19:04,920 --> 00:19:07,119 Speaker 1: always have like bad voices in their heads. And if 364 00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:08,640 Speaker 1: that have bad voices in their heads, I don't really 365 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 1: care about other people. And so the idea of an 366 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 1: apocalyptic yes scenario where where their their life gets twist 367 00:19:16,040 --> 00:19:19,440 Speaker 1: turned upside down is actually welcoming because most people's lives 368 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:21,959 Speaker 1: are kind of difficult and challenging. Well, if I can 369 00:19:22,000 --> 00:19:26,160 Speaker 1: get into like, uh, my my own fringe political beliefs 370 00:19:26,160 --> 00:19:27,800 Speaker 1: on this, I think a lot of that has to 371 00:19:27,840 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 1: do with the fact that there are some very dehumanizing 372 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:34,000 Speaker 1: aspects to the kind of capitalism that we enjoy in 373 00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:36,359 Speaker 1: the United States, and a lot of people's lives are 374 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,080 Speaker 1: incredibly difficult and there's very little hope that things will 375 00:19:40,160 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: lighten up or that they'll be able to retire. There's 376 00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:43,760 Speaker 1: like no light at the end of the tunnel. There's 377 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,600 Speaker 1: just a series of distractions. And so the ideal that 378 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,680 Speaker 1: it might all come tumbling down and you would get 379 00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,280 Speaker 1: to be king of the waste land and not have 380 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:52,480 Speaker 1: to clock in at work at Target the next morning. 381 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: Right that that that does, that is very attractive to 382 00:19:56,119 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 1: a chunk of the population, especially the people who believe 383 00:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: that they would thrive that environment. Yeah, that's that's an 384 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: important key I think, is that they would believe they 385 00:20:04,840 --> 00:20:10,200 Speaker 1: would thrive when the reality is two days in the woods. Now, Eric, 386 00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 1: speaking of the dehumanizing realities of modern American consumerst capitalism, 387 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,800 Speaker 1: it's time for an it plug. Is this a good 388 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:28,120 Speaker 1: This is a good one, Yeah, nailing it products. We're 389 00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,160 Speaker 1: back boy. A lot happened in that break number one. 390 00:20:32,040 --> 00:20:34,879 Speaker 1: I grabbed my throwing bagels. I don't know if you 391 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:37,119 Speaker 1: if you're aware of this, but I throw bagels on 392 00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:39,919 Speaker 1: the show. It's a much in a kind of substitute 393 00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:43,119 Speaker 1: to think, Well, your guests. I actually planned to combine 394 00:20:43,160 --> 00:20:45,000 Speaker 1: the two. So here's what I'd like to do when 395 00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:46,840 Speaker 1: we when we hit a point of maximum rage in 396 00:20:46,880 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: this episode, um or perhaps at the end of it, 397 00:20:49,560 --> 00:20:51,439 Speaker 1: I'm going to throw these bagels and I want you 398 00:20:51,480 --> 00:20:53,159 Speaker 1: to slice them out of the air like a modern 399 00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 1: samurai with the Sisters machete. You want to do that? 400 00:20:56,800 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 1: All right? Sophie says that it's approved by everyone at corporate, 401 00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:02,360 Speaker 1: so we're good to go. I also have to say 402 00:21:02,440 --> 00:21:05,560 Speaker 1: I just tried the pair editions sugar Free Red Bull. 403 00:21:05,720 --> 00:21:07,800 Speaker 1: I hate Red Bull as a general rule. I hate 404 00:21:07,800 --> 00:21:11,400 Speaker 1: the company, the ad campaign. This is delightful. The pair 405 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,600 Speaker 1: version is really tasty. I hate that it's so good, 406 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:18,000 Speaker 1: but it's fantastic, and I like that you gave it 407 00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:21,280 Speaker 1: a little like you are a commercial now. Thank you. 408 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 1: You've become America. I God, damn it. It happens every 409 00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:28,240 Speaker 1: time I come back to Los Angeles. When can I 410 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,880 Speaker 1: show him a photo of this fucker? Yeah? Show him 411 00:21:30,920 --> 00:21:33,920 Speaker 1: young beyond Lumborg so you can see how this guy okay, 412 00:21:33,920 --> 00:21:36,040 Speaker 1: because I was gonna say, Michael's all right, Michael's in 413 00:21:36,080 --> 00:21:37,879 Speaker 1: all right face. No, No, he's fine. So this is 414 00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:41,600 Speaker 1: young born Lumborg. So for anyone listening, he looks like 415 00:21:41,720 --> 00:21:46,159 Speaker 1: Hitler's wet dream. He kind of looks like, um, what 416 00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:49,879 Speaker 1: I like, what Aaron Carter would look like if he 417 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:54,480 Speaker 1: didn't do drugs, like you know, this little blue eyes, 418 00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,080 Speaker 1: blonde hair, and it works for him. Yeah, but how 419 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:00,080 Speaker 1: does he look now, Well, we'll talk about that a 420 00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:01,560 Speaker 1: little bit. I want to get to where this guy 421 00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:07,359 Speaker 1: winds up bad but not great? Right? Is he a 422 00:22:07,359 --> 00:22:10,959 Speaker 1: personification of what's going on inside his mind? Yeah? Kind of. 423 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,280 Speaker 1: Actually it's a personification of what's happened to his arguments 424 00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:17,520 Speaker 1: over the years, which I think happens. I mean, look 425 00:22:17,520 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: at Steve Bannon. If Steve Stevie Banny, right hat Steve Bannon, 426 00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:25,399 Speaker 1: if he looks like you know, if he looked like 427 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,320 Speaker 1: Hercules and was like just you know, I hate these 428 00:22:28,359 --> 00:22:30,800 Speaker 1: types of people, I'd be like, I'm gonna listen to 429 00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:34,280 Speaker 1: that guy. He's a beautiful man. He must be healthy, 430 00:22:34,400 --> 00:22:38,000 Speaker 1: both physically and therefore mentally. But Steve is full of 431 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: like regular type skin, you know, where like clearly skirmishes 432 00:22:43,119 --> 00:22:45,359 Speaker 1: have happened on this face. Yeah. Yeah, Yeah, there's a 433 00:22:45,359 --> 00:22:48,920 Speaker 1: war between his acne and his cirrhosis, and like it's 434 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:53,800 Speaker 1: it's a vicious battle. Paul, Steve, No, don't ever, Steve Bannon. 435 00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:57,919 Speaker 1: You know what, it doesn't get said enough, Paul Steve 436 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:04,639 Speaker 1: Steve Bannon, uh Stevie b So, yeah, Lumbard. When we 437 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:06,640 Speaker 1: talked about Julian Simon, the guy got into that argument 438 00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:09,080 Speaker 1: with Paul Aerlic And he's like a frequently quoted scientist 439 00:23:09,160 --> 00:23:11,520 Speaker 1: by people who want to deny climate change because one 440 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,320 Speaker 1: of the things that they'll always argue is that we'll 441 00:23:13,359 --> 00:23:15,159 Speaker 1: back in the seventies and eighties, everybody was telling us 442 00:23:15,160 --> 00:23:17,119 Speaker 1: there was going to be a population bomb and population 443 00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:20,560 Speaker 1: a resource crisis, and that didn't happen, so clearly like 444 00:23:20,600 --> 00:23:23,199 Speaker 1: this is the same thing, and everybody's worried for nothing. 445 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,080 Speaker 1: And Simon is one of the apostles of he was 446 00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,000 Speaker 1: right about the population crisis. And that is one of 447 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,680 Speaker 1: the things whenever we're getting too talks about climate change 448 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,520 Speaker 1: and people bring up population is a problem, that's zero 449 00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,560 Speaker 1: percent of the problem. The the overall human population is 450 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: not an issue. It's resource expenditure by people like us. 451 00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:44,560 Speaker 1: Um It's not like the issue is not that there's 452 00:23:44,880 --> 00:23:47,520 Speaker 1: too many people being born in Sub Saharan Africa, or 453 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,159 Speaker 1: in India or in China. It's a little bit, but 454 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 1: that's most A lot of that's because they're making stuff 455 00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:53,800 Speaker 1: to be sold in the Europe and in Europe in 456 00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:56,960 Speaker 1: the United States, it's not a population issue. It's the 457 00:23:57,040 --> 00:24:00,320 Speaker 1: types of resources being consumed. And also like more than 458 00:24:00,320 --> 00:24:05,320 Speaker 1: anything related to Yeah, it's more an issue of billionaires 459 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 1: and millionaires and upper middle class people in the kind 460 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:11,280 Speaker 1: of resources they spend, like celebrities flying their private jets 461 00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:12,960 Speaker 1: from one airport in l a to the other to 462 00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,960 Speaker 1: skip midtown traffic, which happens way more often than you 463 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:20,000 Speaker 1: would expect. Oh, you can track their planes. Yeah, Um, 464 00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,280 Speaker 1: it's more of that than it is like look at 465 00:24:22,320 --> 00:24:24,199 Speaker 1: all these people and yeah, that that's part of like 466 00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: what Steve Bannon Actually that's one of the racist arguments 467 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,400 Speaker 1: that he'll make about like, well, if you're really concerned, 468 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,280 Speaker 1: we should like be concerned about all these population, you know, 469 00:24:31,600 --> 00:24:33,439 Speaker 1: problems going So it's like this weird thing on the 470 00:24:33,520 --> 00:24:36,040 Speaker 1: right where but both point to Paul Erlick and his 471 00:24:36,160 --> 00:24:38,639 Speaker 1: fears of a population bomb to be like, look, climate 472 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: change isn't real because they were wrong about overpopulation. And 473 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:45,359 Speaker 1: they'll also complain that like all these hordes of of poor, 474 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,000 Speaker 1: non white people from like the global South are going 475 00:24:48,040 --> 00:24:50,679 Speaker 1: to like using up the world's resources, when that's not 476 00:24:50,720 --> 00:24:53,600 Speaker 1: at all the case, like it's this double edged sword 477 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,439 Speaker 1: of racism, uh, and also not doing anything about the 478 00:24:56,480 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: core problems of climate change. It's very frustrating. I do 479 00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:03,280 Speaker 1: wonder with these signs who say, you know, they're opposing 480 00:25:03,359 --> 00:25:06,639 Speaker 1: climate change and stuff. I do want to sometimes if 481 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:09,480 Speaker 1: that's just good money it is with Lumberg, I'm not 482 00:25:09,480 --> 00:25:11,920 Speaker 1: gonna say Simon died. I think before the debate really 483 00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,680 Speaker 1: took off, he was right about the population stuff, So 484 00:25:14,720 --> 00:25:16,600 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't want to lump him in with Lamborg, 485 00:25:16,960 --> 00:25:19,520 Speaker 1: but Lumborg sees himself as that kind of figure. So 486 00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,359 Speaker 1: Simon gains a lot of renowned for being right about 487 00:25:22,359 --> 00:25:25,159 Speaker 1: the fact that like there was alarmism around the global population, 488 00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: and Lumborg painted himself as that kind of guy, and 489 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: he would bring this story up specifically when he did 490 00:25:32,000 --> 00:25:35,280 Speaker 1: news interviews so that people would conservatives in particular, would 491 00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 1: see him as like, oh, this is the next iteration 492 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,560 Speaker 1: of that kind of scientist. This is the clear eyed 493 00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,199 Speaker 1: Galileo type contrarian scientists who sees the reality through the 494 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:46,919 Speaker 1: political bullshit of climate change and understands that it's not 495 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,600 Speaker 1: really a problem. We can keep fracking. Like that's how 496 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:54,359 Speaker 1: he's painting himself. So it's important to understand that so um. 497 00:25:54,480 --> 00:25:57,320 Speaker 1: One of the reasons that Lumborg was so convincing, particularly 498 00:25:57,359 --> 00:26:00,280 Speaker 1: to journalists who again didn't know anything about science, like 499 00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: the guys at the New York Times wrote this profile piece, 500 00:26:02,880 --> 00:26:06,680 Speaker 1: is that his book had a shipload of citations in it. Uh. 501 00:26:06,720 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: In many of the articles about Lumborg in the early 502 00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:11,240 Speaker 1: two thousand's, you would read quotes like this one from 503 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:14,720 Speaker 1: the Times. Dr Lumborg has presented his findings and the 504 00:26:14,760 --> 00:26:17,399 Speaker 1: Skeptical Environmentalists a book to be published in September by 505 00:26:17,440 --> 00:26:19,840 Speaker 1: Cambridge University Press. The primary targets of the book, a 506 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:23,439 Speaker 1: substantial work of analysis with almost three thousand footnotes, are 507 00:26:23,480 --> 00:26:26,560 Speaker 1: statements made by environmental organizations like the World Watch Institute, 508 00:26:26,560 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: the World Wildlife Fund, and green Peace. Virtually every one 509 00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:34,040 Speaker 1: of these pieces you would find includes references, and often 510 00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:37,000 Speaker 1: multiple references, to the fact that Lumborg's book had like 511 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:39,320 Speaker 1: three thousand footnotes. So like that's part of the claim 512 00:26:39,359 --> 00:26:41,640 Speaker 1: of like, how how like this is a really seriously 513 00:26:41,640 --> 00:26:43,639 Speaker 1: research scholarly look at how many footnotes it has, Like 514 00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:45,720 Speaker 1: people would like there's you can find like videos and 515 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:48,800 Speaker 1: stuff of people like like whole opening the book and 516 00:26:48,840 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 1: like pointing out how thick the section of footnotes is, 517 00:26:51,440 --> 00:26:53,000 Speaker 1: and like I did that when I was in school, 518 00:26:53,000 --> 00:26:54,720 Speaker 1: to point out, like, look, this guy is really like 519 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,840 Speaker 1: look at how many fucking we're excited he has. That 520 00:26:56,920 --> 00:27:01,440 Speaker 1: means it's like a real solid work of science. So 521 00:27:01,640 --> 00:27:05,320 Speaker 1: you see you once sort of side Oh yeah, absolutely, 522 00:27:05,320 --> 00:27:08,240 Speaker 1: I was. I was raised very conservative, very Republican. Um 523 00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,479 Speaker 1: I thought that George W. Bush was the best president 524 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,240 Speaker 1: since Ronald Reagan? Who was the best president? And when 525 00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:14,800 Speaker 1: and how long did we take you to sort of 526 00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,560 Speaker 1: distance yourself from him? I mean as soon as I 527 00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:22,679 Speaker 1: went to college and made friends who both were not 528 00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:25,440 Speaker 1: white and also had not grown up middle class. It's 529 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,480 Speaker 1: a bear in mind, like how challenging it had to 530 00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:31,440 Speaker 1: take you to be from one place to another. And 531 00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: you're clearly smart, and you clearly have resources where you 532 00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:37,800 Speaker 1: want to read and stuff. Then we're asking the general 533 00:27:37,840 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: populace to just switch off to Netflix for an hour 534 00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 1: and maybe read an essay. Yeah, it read an essay 535 00:27:44,480 --> 00:27:46,920 Speaker 1: that's like dense and hard to understand, and they might 536 00:27:46,920 --> 00:27:50,120 Speaker 1: come across stuff like research on how one Arctic ice 537 00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,600 Speaker 1: sheet is increasing in density, and like you have to 538 00:27:52,640 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: also ask them, no, no, don't stop just because you 539 00:27:54,800 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: read one thing that doesn't seem like like it actually 540 00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:00,280 Speaker 1: takes understanding a lot of different things, like not just 541 00:28:01,359 --> 00:28:03,679 Speaker 1: like what's happening with like ice sheets, but what's happening 542 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,000 Speaker 1: with like air currents and like like weather patterns, species, like, well, 543 00:28:09,840 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: they have to understand chaos theory, yeah, in its most 544 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:18,400 Speaker 1: complex form, which is ah and and then you get 545 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,399 Speaker 1: to this situation where like you wind up telling people 546 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,480 Speaker 1: just look, all the scientists agree about this, so just 547 00:28:23,560 --> 00:28:26,639 Speaker 1: believe them. But then there's maybe if you need to 548 00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:28,720 Speaker 1: know comp chaos theory, maybe we should talk to Michael 549 00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:32,720 Speaker 1: Crichton about it. It's seemed frustrating he didn't get that. Yeah, 550 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:36,960 Speaker 1: and Creighton Lost World still a fine book, but god 551 00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:41,280 Speaker 1: damn it, dude. So yeah, Journalists who liked Lumbourg would 552 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,160 Speaker 1: point out, like all of those fucking footnotes, like that 553 00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,200 Speaker 1: was one of the biggest arguments to like why the 554 00:28:45,240 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 1: Skeptical Environmentalist was a credible book, um, And most people 555 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,480 Speaker 1: who looked at all those footnotes assumed that his arguments 556 00:28:52,480 --> 00:28:56,120 Speaker 1: were actually supported by the research included there. In spoilers, 557 00:28:56,560 --> 00:28:59,440 Speaker 1: it was not as with Crichton. Several of the scientists 558 00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,440 Speaker 1: cited in the Borg's books spoke out to warn that 559 00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,560 Speaker 1: he had misinterpreted their work. A bevy of experts took 560 00:29:04,560 --> 00:29:07,160 Speaker 1: to the field to complain that the skeptical environmentalists was 561 00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,080 Speaker 1: nothing but a pack of deadly lies. For one example 562 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:11,800 Speaker 1: of how dumb this ship is, I'd like to quote 563 00:29:11,800 --> 00:29:15,200 Speaker 1: an article written by Dr E. O. Wilson, a Harvard professor, 564 00:29:15,320 --> 00:29:18,720 Speaker 1: a two time Pulitzer Prize winner, and an actual biologist. 565 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,120 Speaker 1: He's commenting on Lumburg's claims that fears of mass extinction 566 00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:25,240 Speaker 1: brought on by climate change are bogus, using bad data 567 00:29:25,360 --> 00:29:28,960 Speaker 1: and lies. Lumbarg estimated a species lost worldwide of just 568 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:33,280 Speaker 1: point seven percent over the next fifty years point zero 569 00:29:33,560 --> 00:29:36,760 Speaker 1: one four percent per year. Now, Dr Wilson, who was 570 00:29:36,800 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: an actual biologist again and not a fucking statician and 571 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:43,800 Speaker 1: economist like Lumborg, wrote this. Before humans existed, the species 572 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 1: extinction rate was very roughly one species per million species 573 00:29:46,960 --> 00:29:50,640 Speaker 1: per year point zero zero zero one percent. Estimates for 574 00:29:50,680 --> 00:29:53,480 Speaker 1: current species extinction rates range from one hundred to ten 575 00:29:53,560 --> 00:29:55,920 Speaker 1: thousand times that, but mostly hover close to the one 576 00:29:55,960 --> 00:29:59,000 Speaker 1: thousand times pre human levels point one percent per year, 577 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,000 Speaker 1: with the rate rejected to rise and very likely sharply. 578 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:04,640 Speaker 1: Wilson goes on to note, based on the work of 579 00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,320 Speaker 1: Stuart Pim of Columbia University's Center for Environmental Research and Conservation, 580 00:30:08,360 --> 00:30:11,240 Speaker 1: anywhere from one to several birds species go extinct annually 581 00:30:11,280 --> 00:30:14,160 Speaker 1: out of ten thousand known species. Hence, say point zero 582 00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:16,560 Speaker 1: one to point zero three percent of all living bird 583 00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:19,640 Speaker 1: species are extinguished per year. But birds are unusual, and 584 00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:23,360 Speaker 1: that threatens bird species receive an extraordinary amount of human intervention. 585 00:30:23,600 --> 00:30:26,120 Speaker 1: The real figure of observed extinctions would be much higher, 586 00:30:26,200 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 1: very likely ten per year, point one percent or more, 587 00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:31,160 Speaker 1: if it were not for their heroic efforts to save 588 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,320 Speaker 1: species on the brink of extinction. Now, that article and 589 00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:37,880 Speaker 1: that quote from Dr Wilson came from two thousand one, 590 00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,800 Speaker 1: but time has proved Dr Wilson right and Dr Lumbourg wrong. 591 00:30:42,240 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: The Center for Biological Diversity notes we're currently experiencing the 592 00:30:45,640 --> 00:30:47,760 Speaker 1: worst spate of species die off since the loss of 593 00:30:47,760 --> 00:30:50,480 Speaker 1: the dinosaurs sixty million years ago. Although extinction is a 594 00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:53,440 Speaker 1: natural phenomenon, it occurs at a natural background rate of 595 00:30:53,480 --> 00:30:56,440 Speaker 1: about one to five species per year. Scientists estimate we 596 00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,480 Speaker 1: are now losing species. It up to a thousand times 597 00:30:58,560 --> 00:31:01,240 Speaker 1: the background rate, with literally does is going extinct every day. 598 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:03,640 Speaker 1: It could be a scary future. Indeed, with as many 599 00:31:03,640 --> 00:31:07,040 Speaker 1: as thirty of all species passably heading towards extinction by 600 00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:11,400 Speaker 1: mid century. So Lumborg says point seven percent of all 601 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:16,760 Speaker 1: species by mid century. The reality is but even even 602 00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,000 Speaker 1: that forty, I think most people don't care. Right, But 603 00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:24,000 Speaker 1: what it seems like people don't understand is if you 604 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: lose one animal, it's snowballs and sort of triggers effect. 605 00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:30,160 Speaker 1: Like you need to like we need to win the 606 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:33,560 Speaker 1: heart of people in different ways I learned. So there's 607 00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: this woman called Dr Erica McAllister. She works at the 608 00:31:36,920 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: Natural History Museum, and she is a fly expert, and 609 00:31:40,880 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 1: I did an interview with her about flies. And there 610 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,240 Speaker 1: is one fly that creates chocolate, pollinates chocolate, and because 611 00:31:48,240 --> 00:31:50,680 Speaker 1: of global warming, we're actually losing that fly, which means 612 00:31:50,680 --> 00:31:53,320 Speaker 1: that potentially we could lose chocolate. If you get to 613 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,479 Speaker 1: people in that way, I can see people protesting fast 614 00:31:58,040 --> 00:32:00,560 Speaker 1: ladies and chocolate if you can convince the it's real. 615 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:03,040 Speaker 1: Like one of the problems is that, like there's a 616 00:32:03,040 --> 00:32:04,960 Speaker 1: lot of people who when you tell them that we're 617 00:32:04,960 --> 00:32:08,360 Speaker 1: losing species, will get angry and say, funk all those species. 618 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: I want them dead. I'm going to drive the biggest 619 00:32:10,560 --> 00:32:13,440 Speaker 1: I'm going to modify my car to release more pollution 620 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: so that it will kill them faster. Because there's this 621 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,240 Speaker 1: big propaganda game that's been played in the US to 622 00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:21,040 Speaker 1: make it look like um, the point of a couple 623 00:32:21,040 --> 00:32:23,479 Speaker 1: of specific cases where like the Environmental Protection Act led 624 00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:25,680 Speaker 1: to farmers losing access to pieces of their land to 625 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,320 Speaker 1: preserve like wetlands and keep it species of frog alive, 626 00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:31,360 Speaker 1: and it like led to people murdering some of those species, 627 00:32:31,400 --> 00:32:34,040 Speaker 1: like like as an act of protest against what they 628 00:32:34,040 --> 00:32:38,120 Speaker 1: saw as government overreach. Like it's this, there's this hateful 629 00:32:38,240 --> 00:32:41,480 Speaker 1: and utterly lunatic chunk of the right that has been 630 00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,280 Speaker 1: trained to respond to any talk of global warming with 631 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,720 Speaker 1: just like violent rage, which is why you'll see people 632 00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,520 Speaker 1: threatening to kill Greta Tunberg, that that that the young 633 00:32:51,600 --> 00:32:55,800 Speaker 1: environmental active. It's amazing to watch, you know, obviously really 634 00:32:55,840 --> 00:32:58,360 Speaker 1: sad for her and almost kind of fair what could 635 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:01,480 Speaker 1: happen to her. There's a piece of me that's like 636 00:33:02,680 --> 00:33:05,560 Speaker 1: as fucked up as it is, and I'm horribly sorry 637 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,840 Speaker 1: that she is going through this and very proud of 638 00:33:07,840 --> 00:33:11,280 Speaker 1: her for being an activist. It's good that it's been 639 00:33:11,320 --> 00:33:13,560 Speaker 1: made this obvious that there's this young girl just saying 640 00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,120 Speaker 1: I want the world to be habitable by currently like 641 00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: when I'm an adult, I want to be able to 642 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:21,240 Speaker 1: like enjoy wetlands and like glaciers, Like I want to 643 00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:22,640 Speaker 1: be able to live in the kind of world that 644 00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:26,400 Speaker 1: y'all grew up in. And every like this chunk of 645 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 1: the populace threatening to murder her um and like like 646 00:33:30,360 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 1: like that we see this this kind of hate unleashed 647 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,200 Speaker 1: that like it really is that irrational. It really has been, 648 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: because yeah, Lumboard is ground zero for spinning that up, 649 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,880 Speaker 1: like he's a part of this convincing everybody like that 650 00:33:42,920 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: was the first stage was convincing them there's this conspiracy. 651 00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:47,720 Speaker 1: And he didn't say it was a conspiracy. He just 652 00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,640 Speaker 1: said that, like, look, there's this the reality if you 653 00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:51,320 Speaker 1: look at the real data, it's actually not that bad. 654 00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,000 Speaker 1: On all these groups are just trying to scare you, 655 00:33:53,040 --> 00:33:55,400 Speaker 1: like there's this conspiracy of fear. Then that's that. Like 656 00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,360 Speaker 1: the whole lady behind Crichton's book is that there's a 657 00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,480 Speaker 1: literal conspiracy to like make you believe if this is 658 00:34:00,480 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: happening when it's not. And that's the that's step one 659 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:07,120 Speaker 1: to getting and the in stage of this like long 660 00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:08,680 Speaker 1: and I don't even think it was really a plan, 661 00:34:08,840 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 1: but the natural conclusion of the start of this, where 662 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,439 Speaker 1: you just get everyone to distrust this information believe they're 663 00:34:14,440 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 1: being lied to, is when this young woman steps up. 664 00:34:17,480 --> 00:34:20,720 Speaker 1: People are just like screaming spittle flecked hatred at this 665 00:34:20,719 --> 00:34:24,000 Speaker 1: this girl for daring to be like, I'd like it 666 00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:30,080 Speaker 1: if there were ice in the future. Yeah, it's pretty 667 00:34:30,120 --> 00:34:33,320 Speaker 1: scary the people, the people that are out there. Yeah, 668 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:36,160 Speaker 1: And Lumbourg is an important guy to understand to know 669 00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,359 Speaker 1: how we got from, like where we used to be 670 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,719 Speaker 1: as a species, about like kind of basic scientific consensus 671 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,520 Speaker 1: and where we are right now, particularly in the United States. 672 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:48,920 Speaker 1: But but also the thing is I do try and 673 00:34:49,040 --> 00:34:55,400 Speaker 1: understand people that don't understand, right. And if most people, 674 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,560 Speaker 1: well actually all people can only experience life through their 675 00:34:58,600 --> 00:35:02,880 Speaker 1: own sis, right, And if people are also not curious 676 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:05,640 Speaker 1: because the majority of people are not curious, which is 677 00:35:05,880 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 1: their curiosity is focused. They're curious about whatever they're into. 678 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:12,680 Speaker 1: They're not curious about but even now. Some people just 679 00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: aren't right. They just sort of float around, just sort 680 00:35:15,560 --> 00:35:17,880 Speaker 1: of colliding into things, and just life takes them in 681 00:35:17,920 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 1: a different path and they almost have no control and 682 00:35:20,200 --> 00:35:23,799 Speaker 1: where they're going. And most people just haven't got that 683 00:35:23,840 --> 00:35:28,440 Speaker 1: curiosity to read more than one clickbay article. And so 684 00:35:28,520 --> 00:35:32,279 Speaker 1: it's very so it's so easy to be brainwashed into 685 00:35:32,360 --> 00:35:36,200 Speaker 1: thinking that, yeah, yeah, what if it is a conspiracy? 686 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: Because all the proof I have is it's getting hotter, 687 00:35:39,160 --> 00:35:42,719 Speaker 1: but because the news tells me is getting hot. Look 688 00:35:42,760 --> 00:35:46,719 Speaker 1: at this nicely dressed Danish man with beautiful blonde hair 689 00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:52,000 Speaker 1: holding up a book with like three thousand citations telling 690 00:35:52,040 --> 00:35:54,759 Speaker 1: me not to worry. All right, Well, I I'm going 691 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:56,239 Speaker 1: to go back to worrying about, like, you know, the 692 00:35:56,280 --> 00:35:58,200 Speaker 1: fact that my kid doesn't have healthcare or whatever. I 693 00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,960 Speaker 1: have other ship to deal with out so yeah, the 694 00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: uh it turns out that Lomborg, also speaking of that bibliography, 695 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:09,200 Speaker 1: puffed it up to a kind of ridiculous extent by 696 00:36:09,239 --> 00:36:12,200 Speaker 1: including a lot of sources that were not rigorously researched 697 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,200 Speaker 1: scientific studies. So like the way that it was framed 698 00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:17,080 Speaker 1: is like this is all the scientific citations. It wasn't 699 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,600 Speaker 1: all scientific citations. I'm going to read a quote from 700 00:36:19,600 --> 00:36:22,239 Speaker 1: an article by Matt Nisbet, a professor of communication and 701 00:36:22,280 --> 00:36:26,080 Speaker 1: a writer with a skeptical inquirer. He uncritically and selectively 702 00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:29,000 Speaker 1: cites literature, much of it non peer reviewed, and misinterprets 703 00:36:29,040 --> 00:36:33,520 Speaker 1: or misunderstands the previously published scientific research. Several scientists observed 704 00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,080 Speaker 1: that most of Lamborg's three thousand citations are to media 705 00:36:36,200 --> 00:36:40,200 Speaker 1: articles and secondary sources. Lomborg's research is conceptually flawed. He 706 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,440 Speaker 1: ignores ecology and connections among environmental problems, taking instead a 707 00:36:43,520 --> 00:36:47,200 Speaker 1: human centered approach. In several cases, he uses statistical measures 708 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,560 Speaker 1: that are not valid indicators of the problems Here. Reports 709 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:52,600 Speaker 1: are improving on the topic of biodiversity. E. O. Wilson 710 00:36:52,640 --> 00:36:54,680 Speaker 1: and a team of reviewers find that Lomborg's work is 711 00:36:54,760 --> 00:36:57,280 Speaker 1: strikingly at odds with what every expert in the field 712 00:36:57,280 --> 00:36:59,920 Speaker 1: has stated. The review, appearing in Nature goes broader in 713 00:37:00,040 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: concludes that The Skeptical Environmentalist is a hastily prepared book 714 00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:07,000 Speaker 1: on complex scientific issues which disagrees with broad scientific consensus, 715 00:37:07,120 --> 00:37:09,920 Speaker 1: using arguments too often supported by news sources rather than 716 00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 1: by peer reviewed publications. So he picks news sources where 717 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:19,799 Speaker 1: people have misinterpreted scientific studies, then uses those arguments in 718 00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:22,680 Speaker 1: his book, and then includes those citations to puff up 719 00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:25,399 Speaker 1: his three thousand citation counts. That it seems like because 720 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:27,920 Speaker 1: people think he's actually reading science and actually understands it, 721 00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:30,399 Speaker 1: but of course he can't. Like, one of the things 722 00:37:30,440 --> 00:37:32,360 Speaker 1: you noticed that's really frustrating that we're gonna get to 723 00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:35,360 Speaker 1: in a bit is how many different types of scientists 724 00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:38,160 Speaker 1: it takes to debunk Lumborg's work, which points out that 725 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:41,799 Speaker 1: it's fundamentally absurd to assume that any statistician, any economist 726 00:37:41,960 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 1: period anywhere in the world could write a competent book 727 00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:48,880 Speaker 1: on climate change. It's not possible because it requires so 728 00:37:49,040 --> 00:37:52,160 Speaker 1: much different expertise from so many different fields to actually 729 00:37:52,160 --> 00:37:54,319 Speaker 1: have a hope of understanding the whole scope of the 730 00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 1: problem and analyzing all this correctly. And Lumborg that's not 731 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:00,359 Speaker 1: what he's good at. I'm sure he's fine enough at 732 00:38:00,360 --> 00:38:03,840 Speaker 1: fucking economics, but like that, this is not economics. Is 733 00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:07,520 Speaker 1: there not artificial intelligent programs now to sort of create 734 00:38:07,680 --> 00:38:11,719 Speaker 1: models of climate change and where it could possibly begin 735 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:13,959 Speaker 1: in the future. Well, that's just the chi coms trying 736 00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:18,479 Speaker 1: to trick us, right, right, there is so much wrong 737 00:38:18,520 --> 00:38:20,759 Speaker 1: with the Orn Lumborg's book that I could literally right 738 00:38:20,840 --> 00:38:23,440 Speaker 1: five or six episodes just going through everything that's been 739 00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,560 Speaker 1: debunked in it, and not finished getting through everything lumbarg 740 00:38:26,640 --> 00:38:28,719 Speaker 1: got wrong. And I'm not going to do that because 741 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:30,600 Speaker 1: we all have better shipped to do, and because a 742 00:38:30,719 --> 00:38:33,440 Speaker 1: number of incredibly authoritative scientists have already gone through the 743 00:38:33,480 --> 00:38:36,080 Speaker 1: trouble of doing line by line breakdowns of everything in 744 00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:38,520 Speaker 1: the book. Rather than just go over every single thing 745 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:40,360 Speaker 1: that beyond got wrong, I'm going to quote from the 746 00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: Union of Concerned Scientists. They invited a group of the 747 00:38:43,320 --> 00:38:46,719 Speaker 1: world's leading experts on water resources, biodiversity, and climate change 748 00:38:46,760 --> 00:38:51,120 Speaker 1: to review the skeptical environmentalist quote. Reviewing Dr Lumborg's claims 749 00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,520 Speaker 1: are Dr Peter Gleek, an internationally recognized expert on the 750 00:38:54,520 --> 00:38:57,080 Speaker 1: state of fresh water resources. Dr Jerry Mallman, one of 751 00:38:57,120 --> 00:39:00,080 Speaker 1: the most highly regarded atmospheric scientists and climate modelers, and 752 00:39:00,160 --> 00:39:04,000 Speaker 1: top biologists and biodiversity experts. Doctors Edward O. Wilson, Thomas Lovejoy, 753 00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,560 Speaker 1: Norman Myers, Jeffrey Harvey, and Stewart Pim This is again, 754 00:39:08,640 --> 00:39:12,480 Speaker 1: that's uh, what are we at? There? Seven doctors seven 755 00:39:12,520 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: different experts at the top of their fields, all reviewing 756 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:20,239 Speaker 1: this book. Liars, liers, and of course none of them 757 00:39:20,239 --> 00:39:24,280 Speaker 1: are statisticians, are economists. Quote these separately written expert reviews. 758 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,480 Speaker 1: They all had them like right, separate things that like 759 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:30,200 Speaker 1: they weren't influencing each other, unequivocally demonstrate that on closer inspection, 760 00:39:30,280 --> 00:39:32,680 Speaker 1: Lumborg's book is seriously flawed and fails to meet basic 761 00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:35,920 Speaker 1: standards of credible scientific analysis. The author's note how Lumborg 762 00:39:35,920 --> 00:39:40,080 Speaker 1: consistently misuses, misrepresents, or misinterprets data to greatly underestimate rates 763 00:39:40,080 --> 00:39:42,839 Speaker 1: of species extinctions, ignore evidence that billions of people lack 764 00:39:42,840 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 1: access to clean water and sanitation, and minimize the extent 765 00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:47,520 Speaker 1: and impacts of global warming due to the burning of 766 00:39:47,560 --> 00:39:50,400 Speaker 1: fossil fuels and other human caused emissions of heat trapping gases. 767 00:39:50,680 --> 00:39:53,560 Speaker 1: Time and time again, these experts find that Lumberg's assertions 768 00:39:53,560 --> 00:39:56,920 Speaker 1: and analyzes are marred by flawed logic, inappropriate use of statistics, 769 00:39:56,920 --> 00:40:00,000 Speaker 1: and hidden value judgments. He uncritically and selectively cites literally 770 00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:02,640 Speaker 1: You're often not be reviewed that supports his assertions, while 771 00:40:02,760 --> 00:40:06,560 Speaker 1: ignoring or misinterpreting scientific evidence that does not his consistently 772 00:40:06,560 --> 00:40:09,400 Speaker 1: flawed use of scientific data is, in Peter Gleek's words, 773 00:40:09,480 --> 00:40:13,080 Speaker 1: unexpected and disturbing in a statistician. All this makes me think, 774 00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:15,680 Speaker 1: you know what, maybe free speech isn't the right puff 775 00:40:15,680 --> 00:40:19,520 Speaker 1: for humanity. It's it's it's it's hard to read the 776 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,200 Speaker 1: story of Lumburg and not feel like we need to 777 00:40:22,239 --> 00:40:25,400 Speaker 1: have a couple extra laws about when you and I 778 00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:27,160 Speaker 1: don't think it's a free speech is a problem. I 779 00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:30,239 Speaker 1: think it's that it's we too narrowly interpret the the 780 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:33,319 Speaker 1: fire in a crowded theater rule that nobody disagrees that. Like, yeah, 781 00:40:33,320 --> 00:40:36,120 Speaker 1: if somebody's shouting there's a fire and causes a stampede 782 00:40:36,120 --> 00:40:37,800 Speaker 1: and someone dies, Yeah, of course that person should be 783 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,120 Speaker 1: criminally liable. What happens when a guy does this? Why 784 00:40:41,200 --> 00:40:43,719 Speaker 1: isn't he criminally liable for the impact? He knows what 785 00:40:43,760 --> 00:40:46,120 Speaker 1: he's doing, Like, yeah, that that should be more tests. 786 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:48,120 Speaker 1: Like you should just be allowed to have a book, 787 00:40:48,480 --> 00:40:51,680 Speaker 1: I think, you know, speaking as a guy who's written 788 00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,880 Speaker 1: a book. Yeah, yes, you should just be allowed. You 789 00:40:53,880 --> 00:40:57,880 Speaker 1: should have like some basic knowledge. Basic you should have 790 00:40:57,880 --> 00:41:01,319 Speaker 1: some knowledge know all you're doing. It's it's frustrating, like 791 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:05,480 Speaker 1: there should be One of the difficulties with this is, 792 00:41:05,520 --> 00:41:08,200 Speaker 1: like so many of these issues and the issues we 793 00:41:08,200 --> 00:41:10,400 Speaker 1: have with like getting people on board with like a 794 00:41:10,480 --> 00:41:13,840 Speaker 1: basic understanding of the consensus of climate change is that 795 00:41:14,080 --> 00:41:17,600 Speaker 1: there's so many individual studies, Like if you just read 796 00:41:17,680 --> 00:41:20,319 Speaker 1: the summary of the study, you could argue like, oh, 797 00:41:20,360 --> 00:41:22,040 Speaker 1: this proves that climate changes in a problem, and then 798 00:41:22,080 --> 00:41:23,560 Speaker 1: if you actually go into what the scientists are saying, 799 00:41:23,560 --> 00:41:25,319 Speaker 1: they're like, no, no, no, no no. This may seem 800 00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:27,040 Speaker 1: like it's not a problem, but it actually plays into 801 00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:28,640 Speaker 1: this problem and this problem and this problem, and it's 802 00:41:28,640 --> 00:41:30,440 Speaker 1: a part of this chain of events that leads to 803 00:41:30,440 --> 00:41:33,040 Speaker 1: this thing. That's exactly what scientists have been telling everybody 804 00:41:33,040 --> 00:41:36,760 Speaker 1: for years. You're misinterpreting my research. But that doesn't matter 805 00:41:36,960 --> 00:41:39,319 Speaker 1: because somebody just like, waves, look, this study says it's 806 00:41:39,320 --> 00:41:42,640 Speaker 1: not a problem on Fox News, and then my parents 807 00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,239 Speaker 1: are like, well, I guess we don't have to worry. Yeah, 808 00:41:45,280 --> 00:41:51,080 Speaker 1: it's it's frustrating, you know, it's not frustrating. Um ice cream, 809 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,560 Speaker 1: ice cream? And what the ads for this podcast might 810 00:41:54,600 --> 00:41:58,120 Speaker 1: be ice cream? Sofiare we sponsored by ice cream? Let's 811 00:41:58,120 --> 00:42:00,680 Speaker 1: hope that it's ice cream sponsoring this and not another 812 00:42:00,719 --> 00:42:04,359 Speaker 1: coke Brother's ad. It might be another Cooke Brother's add. 813 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,839 Speaker 1: I hope it's a vaping add and not a Coke 814 00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:13,120 Speaker 1: Brothers add. Same thing. No it's not. I mean, technically 815 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:16,680 Speaker 1: vaping could reduce overall climate emissions if it really is 816 00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,920 Speaker 1: killing people. But that's so, that's what I said on 817 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:21,839 Speaker 1: the Daily's Like guys a cople of days ago, I 818 00:42:21,880 --> 00:42:24,960 Speaker 1: said that, Um, I think that the n r A 819 00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:27,879 Speaker 1: is actually the best thing America has currently in its 820 00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:33,319 Speaker 1: fight against climate change. You know, every every death leads 821 00:42:33,360 --> 00:42:36,120 Speaker 1: to a few a common footprint. I will, I will say, 822 00:42:36,160 --> 00:42:39,160 Speaker 1: if we really want to get down that road. The 823 00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:42,040 Speaker 1: greatest ally the world has in fighting climate change its 824 00:42:42,040 --> 00:42:47,960 Speaker 1: climate tobacco industry. Man, the best fight is climate change 825 00:42:47,960 --> 00:42:50,160 Speaker 1: in itself, like it will kill at people, kill that 826 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:53,600 Speaker 1: many people. We've gotten too good at disaster recovery. And 827 00:42:53,719 --> 00:42:59,840 Speaker 1: this is how we get sponsor, Yes, sponsors like Philip 828 00:43:00,040 --> 00:43:05,400 Speaker 1: ors tobacco solving climate change one year olds lungs at 829 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:09,480 Speaker 1: a time. Was that a good ad? Plug? Sofie absolutely 830 00:43:09,640 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 1: not products? All right, we're back. So all of these 831 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:25,120 Speaker 1: debunkings we've gone through were public information basically as soon 832 00:43:25,160 --> 00:43:27,600 Speaker 1: as Biorn Lumborg's book was out in serious people had 833 00:43:27,600 --> 00:43:30,160 Speaker 1: time to read it, but none of the authoritative deconstructions 834 00:43:30,160 --> 00:43:32,400 Speaker 1: of Lumborg's work seemed to matter. He kept right on 835 00:43:32,480 --> 00:43:35,440 Speaker 1: making bank as the profit of Everything's fine, and capitalism 836 00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,320 Speaker 1: will save us all from the climate catastrophe capitalism created. 837 00:43:38,800 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: His website Boron Lumborg Get the Facts Straight, includes a 838 00:43:42,239 --> 00:43:45,320 Speaker 1: short selection of the many awards he received. One of 839 00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,600 Speaker 1: the hundred Top Global Thinkers foreign Policy two thousand eleven, 840 00:43:48,920 --> 00:43:52,239 Speaker 1: Thought Leader Bloomberg's Summit two thousand eleven. One of the 841 00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,160 Speaker 1: hundred Top Global Thinkers Foreign Policy two thousand and ten. 842 00:43:55,520 --> 00:43:58,040 Speaker 1: One of the world seventy five most Influential People of 843 00:43:58,040 --> 00:44:01,200 Speaker 1: the twenty first century, Esquire two thousand and eight, One 844 00:44:01,239 --> 00:44:03,480 Speaker 1: of the fifty people who Could Save the Planet UK 845 00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: Guardian two thousand eight, One of the top hundred public intellectuals. 846 00:44:07,239 --> 00:44:10,279 Speaker 1: Foreign Policy and Prospect Magazine two thousand eight. One of 847 00:44:10,280 --> 00:44:13,520 Speaker 1: the top hundred public intellectuals Foreign Policy and Prospect Magazine 848 00:44:13,560 --> 00:44:16,680 Speaker 1: two thousand five. One of the world's most hundred influential people. 849 00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:22,399 Speaker 1: Time Magazine two thousand four. Wow, Right, isn't that fucked up? Well, 850 00:44:22,520 --> 00:44:26,240 Speaker 1: it's It's also not surprising that because these people making 851 00:44:26,280 --> 00:44:29,720 Speaker 1: those lists are probably in turns, like ultimately the truth 852 00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,560 Speaker 1: is that the people making lists aren't educated in that field. 853 00:44:34,400 --> 00:44:35,960 Speaker 1: It's it's a lot of it's. I think it's a 854 00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,320 Speaker 1: mix of those and like editors who come from a 855 00:44:39,880 --> 00:44:42,759 Speaker 1: wealthy background, because a lot of news editors do, and 856 00:44:42,800 --> 00:44:45,400 Speaker 1: who have like friends in all these industries and stuff, 857 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,040 Speaker 1: and they're like, ah, this is the guy telling us 858 00:44:47,040 --> 00:44:49,880 Speaker 1: it's fine. Yeah, I think that's a chunk of it, 859 00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,960 Speaker 1: especially for like Foreign Policy and Esquire. Um. Now, you 860 00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,439 Speaker 1: know when you do your behind the Bastard podcast, Yeah, 861 00:44:57,320 --> 00:45:00,080 Speaker 1: do you have a lot of anger just boiling? Are 862 00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:03,399 Speaker 1: your things? Yeah? I go shooting about once a week. 863 00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,000 Speaker 1: I have a lot of different machetes that I hit 864 00:45:06,040 --> 00:45:08,680 Speaker 1: stuff with. I work out about ninety minutes a day. Yeah, 865 00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:13,120 Speaker 1: very nice. YEA. I wonder like, how just hearing all 866 00:45:13,120 --> 00:45:16,600 Speaker 1: of that out, how you just stays in? I do 867 00:45:16,640 --> 00:45:20,800 Speaker 1: not stays in. I do a lot of drugs. It 868 00:45:20,880 --> 00:45:24,640 Speaker 1: does help, Yeah, to be honest, like speaking of the 869 00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,520 Speaker 1: n r A shooting is probably the best cathartic thing 870 00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:31,040 Speaker 1: for dealing with that kind of rage. I have to say, 871 00:45:31,600 --> 00:45:33,680 Speaker 1: you know, like I'm very much sort of an anti 872 00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:35,319 Speaker 1: gun person. But at the same time, I don't want 873 00:45:35,320 --> 00:45:38,799 Speaker 1: to judge people, especially once i've until I've experienced it, 874 00:45:38,920 --> 00:45:41,319 Speaker 1: and I think it's a shooting range and it's fun. 875 00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:42,959 Speaker 1: Whether or not you think they should all be banned, 876 00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:45,960 Speaker 1: it's objectively fun. Yeah, it's very fun. Yeah. Yeah. That 877 00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:47,799 Speaker 1: has nothing to do with what the law should be 878 00:45:47,920 --> 00:45:51,560 Speaker 1: right right right now. Um, if you've noticed from all 879 00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:53,960 Speaker 1: of those Top Thinker awards, they all came out at 880 00:45:54,080 --> 00:45:56,719 Speaker 1: latest in two thousand eleven, and a majority of them 881 00:45:56,719 --> 00:45:59,359 Speaker 1: are from two thousand ten or earlier. It's weird that 882 00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:02,560 Speaker 1: Lumborg seems to be considered a top thinker much less 883 00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,120 Speaker 1: often in these days of Category five hurricanes and apocalyptic 884 00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:10,880 Speaker 1: mud slides in the Midwest and hottest years ever on 885 00:46:11,000 --> 00:46:15,439 Speaker 1: record in California's largest wildfires, and like weird, Yeah, because 886 00:46:15,440 --> 00:46:18,400 Speaker 1: I guess what what what people's thought behind it is 887 00:46:18,480 --> 00:46:20,560 Speaker 1: that things like that have always happened, So I I 888 00:46:20,640 --> 00:46:23,080 Speaker 1: know that for example, in the UK during the Roman 889 00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:24,960 Speaker 1: times there were melons that you could grow, you can 890 00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:28,239 Speaker 1: grow melons. And then in Charles Dickens times, in one 891 00:46:28,239 --> 00:46:30,719 Speaker 1: of his books, I think it was David Copperfield, the 892 00:46:30,800 --> 00:46:32,919 Speaker 1: Thames was frozen over which is the river that runs 893 00:46:32,920 --> 00:46:35,759 Speaker 1: through London, which I've never seen it frozen, Like it 894 00:46:35,800 --> 00:46:38,839 Speaker 1: was so frozen they could build bonfires on it. So's 895 00:46:39,600 --> 00:46:43,560 Speaker 1: it's wild And so I understand that that, you know, clime, 896 00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:46,440 Speaker 1: it does change all the time, but I think people 897 00:46:46,440 --> 00:46:49,719 Speaker 1: don't understand that it's sort of changing at a rate. 898 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,400 Speaker 1: I think part of Lumburg's falling from graces that people 899 00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:57,319 Speaker 1: have started to like like California has always had wildfires, 900 00:46:57,560 --> 00:46:59,840 Speaker 1: We've never had Malibu burned down, Like I think that 901 00:47:00,080 --> 00:47:01,960 Speaker 1: was a wake up call to a chunk of people. 902 00:47:02,160 --> 00:47:04,960 Speaker 1: I think that, like especially in like Florida and stuff, 903 00:47:05,200 --> 00:47:06,960 Speaker 1: part of why it's gotten harder and why like a 904 00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:08,760 Speaker 1: lot of people on the right no longer say climate 905 00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:11,040 Speaker 1: change isn't happening. They'll say that like either humans aren't 906 00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:13,880 Speaker 1: behind it or that you know, and we'll get to 907 00:47:13,880 --> 00:47:15,560 Speaker 1: this the line Lumborg especially now, it's like, oh no, 908 00:47:15,600 --> 00:47:18,359 Speaker 1: it's absolutely happening. It's just what everyone says we should 909 00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:20,680 Speaker 1: do cut emissions and stuff that's wrong, and there's other 910 00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: things that we should do, but like you can't even 911 00:47:23,840 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: like a bount of the arch conservatives living on the 912 00:47:26,239 --> 00:47:29,000 Speaker 1: Florida coast, one of the most conservative, like you can't 913 00:47:29,160 --> 00:47:31,760 Speaker 1: you can't have those kind of hurricanes hit as regularly 914 00:47:31,800 --> 00:47:35,120 Speaker 1: as they are and be like nothing's changing. It's it's 915 00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,919 Speaker 1: at this point it's like, oh wow, we've had three 916 00:47:38,400 --> 00:47:41,160 Speaker 1: once in a century storms in like a couple of years, 917 00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,520 Speaker 1: like maybe there's a problem. Um. So now the debate 918 00:47:45,560 --> 00:47:47,040 Speaker 1: has changed, like well what do we do about the 919 00:47:47,040 --> 00:47:49,399 Speaker 1: problem and stuff? And Lumborg has tried to pivot on that. 920 00:47:49,680 --> 00:47:52,080 Speaker 1: He has been less successful. Once again, we'll we'll, we'll 921 00:47:52,120 --> 00:47:55,840 Speaker 1: get to um. But you know, it's in the first 922 00:47:55,880 --> 00:47:58,560 Speaker 1: few years after The Skeptical Environmentalist was published by the 923 00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:02,200 Speaker 1: Oxford University Press and two thousand one, which fucking Oxford 924 00:48:02,280 --> 00:48:06,040 Speaker 1: University Press, Lumborg was everywhere he was on. He was 925 00:48:06,080 --> 00:48:09,440 Speaker 1: on Newsnight, sixty Minutes, the Late Show Larry King, and 926 00:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,040 Speaker 1: he made regular appearances on CNN, MSNBC and of course 927 00:48:13,239 --> 00:48:16,800 Speaker 1: Fox News. All of these sources accepted Lumbourg as an expert, 928 00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:19,200 Speaker 1: while the real expert shouted desperately that he was as 929 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:22,600 Speaker 1: ship filled as a poop factory. I'm proud of that one, Sophie, 930 00:48:23,120 --> 00:48:25,880 Speaker 1: thank you. I think one hint as to why this 931 00:48:25,920 --> 00:48:29,040 Speaker 1: happened is included inside that first fawning New York Times 932 00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,600 Speaker 1: article from two thousand one, Dr Lumborg also chides, and 933 00:48:32,640 --> 00:48:34,920 Speaker 1: this is him talking about like what he calls the litany, 934 00:48:35,000 --> 00:48:37,240 Speaker 1: which is the term he used for like the doom 935 00:48:37,239 --> 00:48:40,640 Speaker 1: and gloom like stuff being said about climate change in 936 00:48:40,640 --> 00:48:44,239 Speaker 1: the early two thousand's. Dr Lumborg also chides journalists, saying 937 00:48:44,239 --> 00:48:47,080 Speaker 1: they uncritically spread the litany, and he accuses the public 938 00:48:47,080 --> 00:48:49,720 Speaker 1: of an unfounded readiness to believe the worst. The litany 939 00:48:49,760 --> 00:48:52,080 Speaker 1: has pervaded the debate so deeply and so long. Dr 940 00:48:52,200 --> 00:48:54,759 Speaker 1: Lumborg writes that blatantly false claims can be made again 941 00:48:54,800 --> 00:48:57,280 Speaker 1: and again without any references and yet still be believed. 942 00:48:57,520 --> 00:48:59,919 Speaker 1: This is the fault not of academic environmental research, which 943 00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,239 Speaker 1: balanced incompetent, he says, but rather of the communication of 944 00:49:03,320 --> 00:49:07,440 Speaker 1: environmental knowledge, which taps deeply into our doomsday beliefs. And 945 00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,359 Speaker 1: I think if you completely reverse everything that he just said, 946 00:49:10,719 --> 00:49:14,000 Speaker 1: that is an accurate explanation for lumborg success. The problem 947 00:49:14,040 --> 00:49:17,120 Speaker 1: is not that journalists uncritically spread the gospel of climate change. 948 00:49:17,400 --> 00:49:20,719 Speaker 1: The problem is that journalists uncritically accept people claiming to 949 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:23,840 Speaker 1: be experts and will write glowing articles about them. If 950 00:49:23,880 --> 00:49:26,640 Speaker 1: they just have a three thousand you know, entry work 951 00:49:26,760 --> 00:49:29,759 Speaker 1: cited page and their bibliographies. People don't want to buy 952 00:49:29,760 --> 00:49:33,120 Speaker 1: into doomsday beliefs, not really. Most people want to believe 953 00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:35,200 Speaker 1: that everything is going to be fine and they don't 954 00:49:35,239 --> 00:49:38,399 Speaker 1: need to worry about a problem. So we'll happily listen 955 00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:41,080 Speaker 1: to a handsome European who misreads real studies to show 956 00:49:41,160 --> 00:49:44,240 Speaker 1: us that everything is fine. And I think Lumborg's ability 957 00:49:44,280 --> 00:49:46,399 Speaker 1: to tap into all of these things is why he's 958 00:49:46,440 --> 00:49:49,840 Speaker 1: been successful, or at least why he was. Do you 959 00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:52,720 Speaker 1: think that uh, I like to sort of asking you questions. 960 00:49:52,760 --> 00:49:54,719 Speaker 1: You're very smart, and I want to see what comes 961 00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:57,640 Speaker 1: out of your face. Um, do you think that the 962 00:49:57,719 --> 00:50:02,480 Speaker 1: world is sort of experiencing a mass by stand or effect? 963 00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:06,480 Speaker 1: So always it's like always, yeah, I'll just con that's 964 00:50:06,480 --> 00:50:08,960 Speaker 1: just going, oh well, someone else will sold that out. Yeah. 965 00:50:09,160 --> 00:50:11,440 Speaker 1: I think we always are. And I think it's like 966 00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,440 Speaker 1: a natural consequence of I think like one of I'm 967 00:50:14,480 --> 00:50:16,200 Speaker 1: on record of saying, like one of the worst things 968 00:50:16,200 --> 00:50:19,400 Speaker 1: that ever happened is twenty four hour television news. It's uh, 969 00:50:19,640 --> 00:50:22,480 Speaker 1: might be what destroys us as a species. Like if 970 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:26,239 Speaker 1: there is a big apocalyptic nuclear war or something. I 971 00:50:26,280 --> 00:50:28,480 Speaker 1: think the core of it will lie in the twenty 972 00:50:28,480 --> 00:50:31,480 Speaker 1: four hour news cycle, UM one way or the other, 973 00:50:31,520 --> 00:50:35,719 Speaker 1: because it's just this this machine that exists to exhaust 974 00:50:35,800 --> 00:50:39,080 Speaker 1: people's ability to give a fuck and to productively deal 975 00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:42,000 Speaker 1: with problems. UM. And I think it's a big part 976 00:50:42,040 --> 00:50:45,240 Speaker 1: of like why you have this kind of decision fatigue, 977 00:50:45,239 --> 00:50:47,239 Speaker 1: in this assumption that like somebody else will handle it, 978 00:50:47,320 --> 00:50:48,759 Speaker 1: which is like what a lot of people on the 979 00:50:48,880 --> 00:50:51,560 Speaker 1: right will point to now that we you can't completely 980 00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,239 Speaker 1: deny climate change, so they'll say, well, scientists are going 981 00:50:54,280 --> 00:50:56,520 Speaker 1: to figure out a solution, like they'll figure out a 982 00:50:56,520 --> 00:51:00,600 Speaker 1: way to fix the whole problem. Well yeah, as well, yeah, 983 00:51:00,000 --> 00:51:05,239 Speaker 1: they share, well, uh, there won't be consequences. Hey, as 984 00:51:05,239 --> 00:51:08,880 Speaker 1: a French person, I really miss beheading people. You know, honestly, 985 00:51:08,960 --> 00:51:12,840 Speaker 1: I really think we should bring that back. I you 986 00:51:12,840 --> 00:51:15,440 Speaker 1: know what, I think the actual solution would be, Like 987 00:51:15,480 --> 00:51:16,960 Speaker 1: the worst thing you could do to the people who 988 00:51:17,000 --> 00:51:20,040 Speaker 1: are actually responsible for most of this is if you 989 00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:23,160 Speaker 1: were to take away like the the oil and gas executives, 990 00:51:23,200 --> 00:51:26,880 Speaker 1: the people that like, uh, what's the company? Um starts 991 00:51:26,880 --> 00:51:29,799 Speaker 1: with an E. No, no, no, well yeah, those guys too, 992 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:33,200 Speaker 1: But like the the people that like these these oil 993 00:51:33,239 --> 00:51:35,080 Speaker 1: and gas companies who like new Back and like at 994 00:51:35,160 --> 00:51:37,400 Speaker 1: least the seventies and stuff that climate change is going 995 00:51:37,440 --> 00:51:38,800 Speaker 1: to be a problem, and like direct like like the 996 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,120 Speaker 1: cigarette companies, covered up evidence that it was going to 997 00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,400 Speaker 1: be an issue so they can maintain their profits. I 998 00:51:43,400 --> 00:51:45,359 Speaker 1: think you take all of those people's money. I think 999 00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:47,719 Speaker 1: you take all of their family money and you lack them, 1000 00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,000 Speaker 1: uh in, anyone who profited from the family business into 1001 00:51:52,040 --> 00:51:56,880 Speaker 1: making no more than the like median American salary and 1002 00:51:56,920 --> 00:52:00,919 Speaker 1: make them live in a normal apartment and make them 1003 00:52:00,960 --> 00:52:03,720 Speaker 1: just be a normal person. And you have that enforced 1004 00:52:03,760 --> 00:52:06,200 Speaker 1: upon them so that they never will ever be able 1005 00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:09,279 Speaker 1: to get access to do anything like that. But on 1006 00:52:09,320 --> 00:52:11,280 Speaker 1: the way there that they have to do to Sessa 1007 00:52:11,719 --> 00:52:14,600 Speaker 1: Lanister style of walking, I'm okay with a little bit 1008 00:52:14,680 --> 00:52:16,800 Speaker 1: with a bell, and they have to walk around naked. 1009 00:52:17,120 --> 00:52:20,120 Speaker 1: I think Mitch McConnell naked walking around the streets of Washington, 1010 00:52:20,200 --> 00:52:26,400 Speaker 1: they say, with his big yeah, but okay, hear me 1011 00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,560 Speaker 1: out on this. That makes him into that gives him 1012 00:52:28,600 --> 00:52:31,359 Speaker 1: the the opportunity to behave as a victim. If Mitch 1013 00:52:31,440 --> 00:52:34,560 Speaker 1: McConnell has to work seven shifts a week at the 1014 00:52:34,600 --> 00:52:38,279 Speaker 1: Applebee's to make rent on his one bedroom apartment, and 1015 00:52:38,320 --> 00:52:40,360 Speaker 1: then he's got like number one. He's got to like 1016 00:52:40,400 --> 00:52:41,959 Speaker 1: depend on all these people, and they have to depend 1017 00:52:41,960 --> 00:52:44,120 Speaker 1: on he has no privileged position. But also like all 1018 00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:46,239 Speaker 1: these people are like, hey, Mitch, it's a hundred and 1019 00:52:46,239 --> 00:52:51,360 Speaker 1: fifteen today, thanks, asshole. Like I I do think that 1020 00:52:51,440 --> 00:52:52,879 Speaker 1: like the worst thing you could do to a lot 1021 00:52:52,880 --> 00:52:55,080 Speaker 1: of these people. Um. I think there's folks like your 1022 00:52:55,360 --> 00:52:58,000 Speaker 1: your Paul's Maniford out there who need to be locked 1023 00:52:58,080 --> 00:52:59,879 Speaker 1: up because they're just too dangerous. But I think most 1024 00:52:59,880 --> 00:53:03,799 Speaker 1: of these people need to be um locked away from 1025 00:53:03,800 --> 00:53:06,320 Speaker 1: the things that are most valuable to them, which is 1026 00:53:06,360 --> 00:53:09,040 Speaker 1: wealth and influence. Um. And I think that will hurt 1027 00:53:09,120 --> 00:53:12,200 Speaker 1: more more than any guillotine ever could. Although I get 1028 00:53:12,239 --> 00:53:15,120 Speaker 1: the impulse, I don't know, it's just a restaurant, chack. 1029 00:53:15,840 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: I didn't say it's bad. I don't want him, like 1030 00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,279 Speaker 1: like I want him at a restaurant. Yeah, I don't 1031 00:53:20,320 --> 00:53:21,920 Speaker 1: want the people. I don't want the staff members of 1032 00:53:21,920 --> 00:53:24,520 Speaker 1: Apples have to deal with. Mitch McConnell. I want to 1033 00:53:24,560 --> 00:53:28,080 Speaker 1: be able to go to an Applebee's and get problematically 1034 00:53:28,160 --> 00:53:31,360 Speaker 1: drunk off of their terrible cocktails and make Mitch McConnell 1035 00:53:31,440 --> 00:53:35,920 Speaker 1: serve me in you know what you know, and we 1036 00:53:35,960 --> 00:53:37,960 Speaker 1: need to open a brand new apple base, right so 1037 00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:43,360 Speaker 1: the oldest stuff member mc Apple's, Ms McConnell and Alex Jones. 1038 00:53:43,400 --> 00:53:45,560 Speaker 1: There a just running that would be a great just 1039 00:53:46,000 --> 00:53:49,600 Speaker 1: just an Applebee's staffed by the people who are like behind, 1040 00:53:50,040 --> 00:53:53,360 Speaker 1: like largely behind our current era of like post truth 1041 00:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,680 Speaker 1: like nonsense. That's that actually would be a great place 1042 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:00,680 Speaker 1: to get Like I would never not be mettingly drunk 1043 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:02,800 Speaker 1: in that place, Like I would be a problem to that. 1044 00:54:02,960 --> 00:54:05,360 Speaker 1: That would be man, It would finally be like I 1045 00:54:05,480 --> 00:54:07,600 Speaker 1: try to be on my good behavior when I get 1046 00:54:07,680 --> 00:54:09,680 Speaker 1: really drunk at like restaurants and stuff because they don't 1047 00:54:09,680 --> 00:54:11,440 Speaker 1: want to cause a problem for like the white staff 1048 00:54:11,520 --> 00:54:14,080 Speaker 1: or something, because they're working people. But if Mitch McConnell 1049 00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:16,120 Speaker 1: was serving my table, I would make it my business 1050 00:54:16,160 --> 00:54:19,200 Speaker 1: to puke. Can I make a suggestion? Yes? So, according 1051 00:54:19,239 --> 00:54:22,800 Speaker 1: to cheat sheet dot com, the most hated restaurant and 1052 00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:25,160 Speaker 1: fast food chain in America is Red Robin, and I 1053 00:54:25,200 --> 00:54:28,319 Speaker 1: think it's a great place for choccon. Mitch McConnell at 1054 00:54:28,320 --> 00:54:35,320 Speaker 1: a goddamn Red Robin or a uh this roadhouse. Hey, hey, hey, hey, Okay, 1055 00:54:35,719 --> 00:54:39,359 Speaker 1: I've not had the privilege of of enjoying an Applebee's 1056 00:54:39,440 --> 00:54:45,200 Speaker 1: or a Red Robin. Oh man. Applebee's is great, Applebee's 1057 00:54:45,360 --> 00:54:47,319 Speaker 1: is well, what if you use at a waffle house? 1058 00:54:47,360 --> 00:54:49,600 Speaker 1: Everybody's thrown up at a waffle house. Yeah, but they 1059 00:54:49,640 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: don't serve liquor like a waffle I I have been 1060 00:54:53,840 --> 00:54:56,400 Speaker 1: I actually, I've never been sober in a waffle house. Um, 1061 00:54:56,920 --> 00:54:58,839 Speaker 1: but you I want to go to a place where 1062 00:54:58,840 --> 00:55:01,320 Speaker 1: I could get I want Mitch McConnell to hand me 1063 00:55:01,760 --> 00:55:04,520 Speaker 1: like a gigantic margarita that's like a leader in length, 1064 00:55:04,600 --> 00:55:06,400 Speaker 1: and I want to as he's handing it to me, 1065 00:55:06,840 --> 00:55:09,080 Speaker 1: take a sip from it while it's still in his hands, 1066 00:55:09,160 --> 00:55:12,279 Speaker 1: and then vomit directly onto him. And then you can 1067 00:55:12,400 --> 00:55:15,320 Speaker 1: bring me another. But now you're victimizing him. That's fine, 1068 00:55:15,440 --> 00:55:21,560 Speaker 1: I would Washington. I'm out about David Busters because people 1069 00:55:21,680 --> 00:55:25,000 Speaker 1: also bring their screaming children. That would be Chucky Cheese. 1070 00:55:26,800 --> 00:55:29,320 Speaker 1: I can't suggest Chuckie Cheese as my friendship with Jimmie 1071 00:55:29,320 --> 00:55:34,759 Speaker 1: Loftus is very important, but honest people can debate over 1072 00:55:34,840 --> 00:55:39,480 Speaker 1: which specific type of shaming would be most maybe have 1073 00:55:39,560 --> 00:55:41,560 Speaker 1: him circulate, because it would be fun to have him 1074 00:55:41,600 --> 00:55:43,560 Speaker 1: like clean up after me at a six Flags too, 1075 00:55:43,600 --> 00:55:47,680 Speaker 1: because I can funk up a six Flags. I really 1076 00:55:47,680 --> 00:55:49,760 Speaker 1: would love to hear him say, would you like fries 1077 00:55:49,840 --> 00:55:52,520 Speaker 1: with that? These would all be very helpful if we 1078 00:55:52,600 --> 00:55:55,680 Speaker 1: could just if we could just establish like basic income 1079 00:55:55,880 --> 00:55:58,759 Speaker 1: and healthcare, uh, and then make it so that like 1080 00:55:59,040 --> 00:56:01,719 Speaker 1: our most unplay doesn't service jobs are all held by 1081 00:56:01,800 --> 00:56:05,600 Speaker 1: former Republican congress people kind of managed by the former 1082 00:56:05,680 --> 00:56:08,680 Speaker 1: people who used to do their jobs. Here's question. A 1083 00:56:08,760 --> 00:56:11,800 Speaker 1: lot of these people are a religious in terms of 1084 00:56:11,880 --> 00:56:17,360 Speaker 1: like a lot of the religious Yeah, right, because I 1085 00:56:17,400 --> 00:56:21,000 Speaker 1: do wonder like the real religious people wouldn't they want 1086 00:56:21,040 --> 00:56:23,920 Speaker 1: to take care of the planet. You know, I've never 1087 00:56:24,040 --> 00:56:27,920 Speaker 1: understood that, like the people that preach will and stuff 1088 00:56:28,160 --> 00:56:30,400 Speaker 1: and then they're going, it's God's will for me to 1089 00:56:30,440 --> 00:56:32,880 Speaker 1: be an asshole that they're not taking care of the planet. 1090 00:56:33,120 --> 00:56:36,120 Speaker 1: That gets into a really complicated subject of like theological debate, 1091 00:56:36,120 --> 00:56:39,280 Speaker 1: because there's a there's a sizeable chunk of American Christians 1092 00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:41,800 Speaker 1: in particular, it's not just the United States phenomenon, but 1093 00:56:41,880 --> 00:56:45,920 Speaker 1: it's bigg here who believe that um the apocalypse is 1094 00:56:45,960 --> 00:56:48,880 Speaker 1: preordained essentially, so that's like, why would you take care 1095 00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:51,680 Speaker 1: of this world? It's ending soon. There's also a chuck 1096 00:56:51,719 --> 00:56:54,120 Speaker 1: of people like who believe like God gave us dominion 1097 00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:55,719 Speaker 1: over this planet, so we're supposed to use it and 1098 00:56:55,880 --> 00:56:57,520 Speaker 1: use it up and like use all the resources. And 1099 00:56:57,520 --> 00:56:59,920 Speaker 1: there's even people who will argue that like God provides 1100 00:57:00,080 --> 00:57:02,000 Speaker 1: with new resources when we use the old ones, and 1101 00:57:02,080 --> 00:57:04,399 Speaker 1: like that's why we've discovered all this this gas under 1102 00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:06,839 Speaker 1: the earth to frack. That was God being like, don't 1103 00:57:06,880 --> 00:57:09,480 Speaker 1: worry about those pesty arabs holding all the oil here, 1104 00:57:09,640 --> 00:57:12,680 Speaker 1: just suck it out of the earth, the like whatever problem. Yeah, 1105 00:57:12,680 --> 00:57:16,440 Speaker 1: there's a bunch of different frustrating things, and I think, um, 1106 00:57:16,960 --> 00:57:21,040 Speaker 1: those people, once upon a time you couldn't take them seriously, 1107 00:57:21,440 --> 00:57:25,240 Speaker 1: like like in mainstream politics. Um, And what Lumbourg provided 1108 00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:27,640 Speaker 1: was a chance for like kind of the more technocratic 1109 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,120 Speaker 1: conservatives like my parents who are like religious but not 1110 00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:34,040 Speaker 1: really religious. Um, they could look at this guy's arguments 1111 00:57:34,120 --> 00:57:36,520 Speaker 1: and be like, well, now here's a smart, educated scientist 1112 00:57:36,640 --> 00:57:38,960 Speaker 1: with a doctor in his name, and he's making he's 1113 00:57:39,000 --> 00:57:40,720 Speaker 1: not saying like God's going to take care of it. 1114 00:57:40,840 --> 00:57:43,400 Speaker 1: He's saying that like you know, he's making what seemed 1115 00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:45,800 Speaker 1: like very logical arguments Forroy, this isn't a problem or 1116 00:57:45,840 --> 00:57:49,240 Speaker 1: why what problems exist will be solved very simply, um, 1117 00:57:49,680 --> 00:57:52,560 Speaker 1: without us changing our lifestyle or dealing with the problems, 1118 00:57:52,600 --> 00:57:54,640 Speaker 1: and like a fundamental level of our society. And it's 1119 00:57:54,720 --> 00:57:59,520 Speaker 1: it's consumption of resources. Um. So yeah, it's uh, it's 1120 00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:02,880 Speaker 1: come that's killing humans, actually, isn't it. Yeah it always Yeah, 1121 00:58:03,120 --> 00:58:06,560 Speaker 1: it's just comfort. People are scared of change. Yeah, yeah, 1122 00:58:06,640 --> 00:58:11,520 Speaker 1: it's always comfort that's killing humans. Um. From a literal 1123 00:58:11,600 --> 00:58:14,080 Speaker 1: point of view, um, in terms of just the fact 1124 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:16,919 Speaker 1: that we're eating stuff that's clogging our arteries and giving 1125 00:58:17,000 --> 00:58:20,520 Speaker 1: us heart attacks at a younger age up to like 1126 00:58:20,680 --> 00:58:25,040 Speaker 1: the fact that we'll ignore uh doom as it rules 1127 00:58:25,240 --> 00:58:27,520 Speaker 1: like leers down on our heads because we want to 1128 00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,240 Speaker 1: go out to Applebee's and we don't want to worry 1129 00:58:29,240 --> 00:58:34,240 Speaker 1: about climate change. I'm not saying Applebee's is bad. Um. Yes, 1130 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:36,240 Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna go to an apple Bae's 1131 00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:39,680 Speaker 1: off for this, not today, but maybe not today. I 1132 00:58:39,760 --> 00:58:41,640 Speaker 1: know that when I go drive past one, I might 1133 00:58:41,720 --> 00:58:45,600 Speaker 1: stop just to experience I uh, you know, Applebee's is 1134 00:58:45,880 --> 00:58:48,040 Speaker 1: often a staple place for me to get wasted when 1135 00:58:48,040 --> 00:58:50,400 Speaker 1: I'm not at home and I'm at like a roadside motel, 1136 00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:52,320 Speaker 1: because you'll often run into an Applebe's next to a 1137 00:58:52,440 --> 00:58:55,520 Speaker 1: roadside motel, and I have I have gotten drunken mini 1138 00:58:55,560 --> 00:58:58,640 Speaker 1: and Applebee's. And if Mitch McConnell were the ones serving me, 1139 00:58:59,000 --> 00:59:02,440 Speaker 1: I would happily troubled the pocket on his apron. That 1140 00:59:02,440 --> 00:59:05,320 Speaker 1: would be great, especially if Paul Ryan came out with, 1141 00:59:05,480 --> 00:59:07,920 Speaker 1: like this the sawdust that you use to soak up 1142 00:59:07,920 --> 00:59:10,720 Speaker 1: the vomit, and like, yeah, that would be really sweet. 1143 00:59:11,640 --> 00:59:15,440 Speaker 1: Now back to Bjord Lumborg. So another reason Lumburg was 1144 00:59:15,440 --> 00:59:18,320 Speaker 1: able to have such an outsized impact on the debate 1145 00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,600 Speaker 1: over climate change in the United States is the simple 1146 00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,520 Speaker 1: fact that misreading and misrepresenting a mix of actual scientific 1147 00:59:24,560 --> 00:59:26,960 Speaker 1: papers in news articles it's a lot easier than conducting 1148 00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:30,880 Speaker 1: authoritative research. The people who do conduct authoritative research are 1149 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,040 Speaker 1: very busy, and when a guy like Biorn comes along 1150 00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:34,880 Speaker 1: and shotguns at a book full of nonsense, they have 1151 00:59:34,960 --> 00:59:37,400 Speaker 1: to spend valuable time slowly debunking all of the many, 1152 00:59:37,480 --> 00:59:40,240 Speaker 1: many things he got wrong. I'm gonna quote here from 1153 00:59:40,280 --> 00:59:43,080 Speaker 1: something Dr E. O. Wilson wrote about the difficulty of 1154 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:46,600 Speaker 1: combating the sort of misinformation. My greatest regret about the 1155 00:59:46,640 --> 00:59:49,560 Speaker 1: Lumborg scam is the extraordinary amount of scientific talent that 1156 00:59:49,640 --> 00:59:51,400 Speaker 1: has to be expended to combat it. In the media, 1157 00:59:51,680 --> 00:59:54,400 Speaker 1: we will always have contrarians like Lumborg, whose salies are 1158 00:59:54,600 --> 00:59:58,640 Speaker 1: characterized by will for ignorance, selective quotations, disregard for communication 1159 00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:01,040 Speaker 1: with genuine experts, and destruct of campaigning to attract the 1160 01:00:01,040 --> 01:00:03,480 Speaker 1: attention of the media rather than scientists. They are the 1161 01:00:03,560 --> 01:00:06,439 Speaker 1: parasitic load on scholars who earned success through the slow 1162 01:00:06,520 --> 01:00:09,160 Speaker 1: process of pure view and approval. The question is how 1163 01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:13,560 Speaker 1: much load should be tolerated before response is necessary. Lumbourg 1164 01:00:13,680 --> 01:00:16,280 Speaker 1: is evidently over the threshold. And this is kind of 1165 01:00:16,360 --> 01:00:17,720 Speaker 1: what we were talking about, Like what do you what 1166 01:00:17,800 --> 01:00:20,440 Speaker 1: do you do about these people? In a perfectly sane world, 1167 01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,960 Speaker 1: Like I think that someone like Lomborg would face criminal 1168 01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,280 Speaker 1: charges for his misrepresentation of scientific fact for the same 1169 01:00:27,320 --> 01:00:31,040 Speaker 1: reason that like if you caught um a diving instructor 1170 01:00:31,120 --> 01:00:33,240 Speaker 1: telling kids that the safest way to dive was head 1171 01:00:33,320 --> 01:00:35,280 Speaker 1: first into the shallow wind of the pool, that guy 1172 01:00:35,320 --> 01:00:37,280 Speaker 1: would face charges even though all he was doing was 1173 01:00:37,320 --> 01:00:41,520 Speaker 1: giving people information. Um, because you're clearly misleading people into 1174 01:00:41,560 --> 01:00:46,320 Speaker 1: a dangerous situation. Charasitic skullars. Yeah, that's a great quote 1175 01:00:46,360 --> 01:00:49,920 Speaker 1: from Yeah, parasitic scholars. And that's another thing is you know, 1176 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:52,160 Speaker 1: why did these people go into that field? So did 1177 01:00:52,200 --> 01:00:54,480 Speaker 1: they go into the field because of the bettlement of 1178 01:00:54,560 --> 01:00:57,480 Speaker 1: the world all the betterment of themselves? And do they 1179 01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,280 Speaker 1: do the betterment of themselves because they love themselves little? 1180 01:01:00,320 --> 01:01:03,080 Speaker 1: Because they have a desperate need for affection, and because 1181 01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:06,120 Speaker 1: like the old oose, go two different paths, right, And 1182 01:01:06,160 --> 01:01:08,560 Speaker 1: I think in Lumberg's case, it is that desperate need 1183 01:01:08,640 --> 01:01:11,400 Speaker 1: to be famous. I think it's this sort of narcissism 1184 01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,760 Speaker 1: that like he he couldn't accept he was a professor 1185 01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:17,000 Speaker 1: of like statistics and ship like that's not in the 1186 01:01:17,080 --> 01:01:19,120 Speaker 1: most exciting life in the world. I'm sure it's very 1187 01:01:19,160 --> 01:01:22,080 Speaker 1: satisfying that the people who legitimately like it, um but 1188 01:01:22,160 --> 01:01:23,960 Speaker 1: I think Lumborg is the kind of guy that had 1189 01:01:23,960 --> 01:01:25,960 Speaker 1: a thirst to be famous and was like, well, this 1190 01:01:26,120 --> 01:01:28,800 Speaker 1: is the fucking easiest way to do that. I mean, yeah, yeah, 1191 01:01:29,640 --> 01:01:31,840 Speaker 1: Now we've just talked about sort of how Dr el 1192 01:01:31,880 --> 01:01:34,240 Speaker 1: Wilson was like expressing his frustration that like a guy 1193 01:01:34,320 --> 01:01:36,640 Speaker 1: like Lumburg can just like shoot out a bunch of nonsense, 1194 01:01:36,680 --> 01:01:40,000 Speaker 1: and then real scientists, whose time is incredibly valuable and limited, 1195 01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:42,600 Speaker 1: have to like spend hours debunking all of it. And 1196 01:01:42,680 --> 01:01:45,640 Speaker 1: it's it's a very frustrating problem with our current system. 1197 01:01:46,240 --> 01:01:48,840 Speaker 1: Um And that might make it seem like there were 1198 01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,960 Speaker 1: no penalties Born faced for lying constantly. There were a 1199 01:01:53,080 --> 01:01:55,240 Speaker 1: little bit of of There was a little bit of 1200 01:01:55,280 --> 01:01:57,800 Speaker 1: a penalty he faced. Several official complaints were made to 1201 01:01:57,840 --> 01:02:01,960 Speaker 1: the Danish Ministry of Science, Technology in Innovation. They evaluated 1202 01:02:01,960 --> 01:02:03,840 Speaker 1: these complaints and found that the work that he had 1203 01:02:03,880 --> 01:02:07,720 Speaker 1: published was fundamentally dishonest. But they found that they couldn't 1204 01:02:07,720 --> 01:02:11,040 Speaker 1: punish him because Lumberg wasn't an expert in any of 1205 01:02:11,080 --> 01:02:14,480 Speaker 1: the relevant fields, and thus he couldn't be considered guilty 1206 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:19,080 Speaker 1: of like fraud essentially, like because he was not really 1207 01:02:19,160 --> 01:02:22,680 Speaker 1: a climate scientist, they couldn't say that he was purposefully 1208 01:02:22,760 --> 01:02:26,280 Speaker 1: misrepresenting his case rather than just sucking up does sane? Yeah, 1209 01:02:26,320 --> 01:02:32,680 Speaker 1: isn't that crazy? Oh? The world is so annoying sometimes. Yeah, 1210 01:02:35,480 --> 01:02:42,640 Speaker 1: you've come around on climate chande people. Yeah. In two 1211 01:02:42,680 --> 01:02:45,720 Speaker 1: thousand seven, Born published a new book, cool It, in 1212 01:02:45,840 --> 01:02:49,360 Speaker 1: which he explicitly accepted the reality of human caused climate change. 1213 01:02:49,720 --> 01:02:51,800 Speaker 1: This was seen by many as an abrupt reversal of 1214 01:02:51,840 --> 01:02:55,440 Speaker 1: his previous attitude. Borne clarified in an interview with The Guardian, 1215 01:02:55,480 --> 01:02:58,200 Speaker 1: who declared him an influential thinker, that it was not 1216 01:02:59,040 --> 01:03:00,440 Speaker 1: or I think they were one of the ones who 1217 01:03:00,440 --> 01:03:03,080 Speaker 1: said he was going to save the world. Yeah, uh yeah, 1218 01:03:03,120 --> 01:03:04,880 Speaker 1: they they voted him one of the fifty people who 1219 01:03:04,880 --> 01:03:07,360 Speaker 1: could save the planet. So an interview with them, and 1220 01:03:07,400 --> 01:03:09,960 Speaker 1: they were more critical of him in this. In this article, 1221 01:03:10,280 --> 01:03:12,800 Speaker 1: Lumborg denies performing a U turn. He reiterates that he 1222 01:03:12,840 --> 01:03:15,760 Speaker 1: has never denied anthropogenic global warming and insists that he 1223 01:03:15,880 --> 01:03:18,280 Speaker 1: long ago accepted the cost of damage would be between 1224 01:03:18,320 --> 01:03:20,480 Speaker 1: two and three percent of world wealth by the end 1225 01:03:20,480 --> 01:03:22,880 Speaker 1: of the century. This estimate is the same, he says, 1226 01:03:22,920 --> 01:03:25,080 Speaker 1: as that quoted by Lord Stern, whose report to the 1227 01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:27,520 Speaker 1: British government argued that the world should spend one to 1228 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:30,320 Speaker 1: two percent of gross domestic product on tackling climate change 1229 01:03:30,520 --> 01:03:34,680 Speaker 1: to avoid future damage. Incidentally, ship like this is why 1230 01:03:34,760 --> 01:03:38,480 Speaker 1: Reginda Pechori, chairman of the UN Climate Change Panel, compared 1231 01:03:38,520 --> 01:03:41,360 Speaker 1: Bjord Lumborg to Adolf Hitler, not because she thought he 1232 01:03:41,480 --> 01:03:44,440 Speaker 1: was a literal Nazi but for the statistical crime of 1233 01:03:44,680 --> 01:03:48,200 Speaker 1: treating human beings like numbers. And the odd thing is 1234 01:03:48,560 --> 01:03:50,840 Speaker 1: Bjorn isn't even all that great at numbers. The Stern 1235 01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:53,800 Speaker 1: Report estimated it would take between five and twenty percent 1236 01:03:53,920 --> 01:03:57,720 Speaker 1: of global GDP to effectively fight climate change. The Guardian 1237 01:03:57,760 --> 01:04:00,760 Speaker 1: pressed Lumborg on this quote, not on a expectedly however, 1238 01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:04,360 Speaker 1: the Stern Report estimates that damage at five of GDP, however, 1239 01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:07,040 Speaker 1: not two to three percent. The difference, according to Lumbarg, 1240 01:04:07,080 --> 01:04:09,040 Speaker 1: is that the two use a different discount factor. This 1241 01:04:09,120 --> 01:04:11,479 Speaker 1: is the method by which economists but recalculate the value 1242 01:04:11,480 --> 01:04:13,840 Speaker 1: today if money spent or saved in the future, or, 1243 01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:15,920 Speaker 1: to put it in another way, the value today of 1244 01:04:16,000 --> 01:04:20,080 Speaker 1: this generation's grandchildren's lives. So sorry, I got it wrong. 1245 01:04:20,200 --> 01:04:21,600 Speaker 1: The Strent Report did and say it would take five 1246 01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:24,120 Speaker 1: to of GDP to fight climate change. It said that 1247 01:04:24,240 --> 01:04:26,760 Speaker 1: the damage of climate change would be five to of 1248 01:04:26,800 --> 01:04:30,240 Speaker 1: GDP if nothing was done to fight it. Um Lumbourg 1249 01:04:30,360 --> 01:04:32,200 Speaker 1: said that the damage would be two to three percent, 1250 01:04:32,640 --> 01:04:35,480 Speaker 1: and then he claimed, by sort of weasel math that 1251 01:04:35,760 --> 01:04:38,280 Speaker 1: the reason for the difference between the two numbers is 1252 01:04:38,320 --> 01:04:40,720 Speaker 1: the differing value that he and Lord Stern put on 1253 01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:46,560 Speaker 1: the lives of our current children. Basically, yeah, so that's cool. Well, 1254 01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:49,400 Speaker 1: I mean I guess in a way there is a 1255 01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:53,800 Speaker 1: sad truth to that. Sure, I mean I do hate kids, 1256 01:04:54,040 --> 01:05:00,280 Speaker 1: so yeah, them invaluable little fuckers. But um, I don't 1257 01:05:00,320 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: like too much when people just go straight for the 1258 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,520 Speaker 1: ad Hitler um nausea um or whatever whatever that that 1259 01:05:05,680 --> 01:05:08,480 Speaker 1: Latin phrases that whenever people just want to use an example, 1260 01:05:08,520 --> 01:05:10,840 Speaker 1: they'll go to Hitler. Because there is a truth to 1261 01:05:11,040 --> 01:05:14,680 Speaker 1: people being numbers. We're just algorithms walking around with little legs, 1262 01:05:15,160 --> 01:05:17,920 Speaker 1: just walking around, right, That's what we are, which is numbers. 1263 01:05:18,680 --> 01:05:20,760 Speaker 1: We're not there with them. I think in her case, 1264 01:05:20,880 --> 01:05:23,440 Speaker 1: she was making a really she wasn't like. I think 1265 01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:25,800 Speaker 1: she was making actually a pretty salient point, which is 1266 01:05:25,880 --> 01:05:29,600 Speaker 1: that when you treat people like numbers in this way, 1267 01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:34,800 Speaker 1: you really are creating humanized scientific crime. You're devaluing their 1268 01:05:34,920 --> 01:05:38,000 Speaker 1: lives in the prod like in the course of like 1269 01:05:38,120 --> 01:05:40,840 Speaker 1: making into an argument that shouldn't be an argument over 1270 01:05:40,920 --> 01:05:45,720 Speaker 1: the numbers purely, like like deep devolving it into that. 1271 01:05:46,000 --> 01:05:48,200 Speaker 1: But but I guess, but yes, but the reality is 1272 01:05:48,240 --> 01:05:50,080 Speaker 1: that it is like that, right, I mean, there's those 1273 01:05:50,080 --> 01:05:53,640 Speaker 1: beautiful paintings of generals on on horseback, right, and you'll 1274 01:05:53,680 --> 01:05:56,760 Speaker 1: see behind them thousands of soldiers just sort of marching 1275 01:05:56,840 --> 01:05:59,080 Speaker 1: towards the war that they want to fight. But ultimately 1276 01:05:59,120 --> 01:06:01,520 Speaker 1: the most important person and is that person in the horseback, 1277 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,040 Speaker 1: and everyone else is just sort of chess pieces at 1278 01:06:04,080 --> 01:06:06,400 Speaker 1: the back, right, I mean. And and we are using 1279 01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:10,160 Speaker 1: less and less humans to to get the needs of humans. 1280 01:06:10,200 --> 01:06:12,040 Speaker 1: So we don't need as many farmers, we don't need 1281 01:06:12,040 --> 01:06:14,680 Speaker 1: as many soldiers because we've got drones and we'll have 1282 01:06:14,880 --> 01:06:17,400 Speaker 1: robots one day and stuff. And I guess there is 1283 01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,960 Speaker 1: that sort of sad truth that we don't need that 1284 01:06:20,080 --> 01:06:24,600 Speaker 1: much manpower anymore to run society. And so the people 1285 01:06:24,640 --> 01:06:26,360 Speaker 1: at the top, And I'm not saying I agree with this, 1286 01:06:26,840 --> 01:06:28,120 Speaker 1: but I'm just saying that the people at the top 1287 01:06:28,160 --> 01:06:29,800 Speaker 1: are going to go, no, we don't need as many 1288 01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:31,880 Speaker 1: people anymore. Oh yeah, I think the people at the 1289 01:06:31,960 --> 01:06:33,959 Speaker 1: top think that way. And I think what you're getting 1290 01:06:34,000 --> 01:06:35,640 Speaker 1: at is sort of a debate that historians they have 1291 01:06:35,720 --> 01:06:38,840 Speaker 1: like the great man theory versus like the trends enforces 1292 01:06:38,920 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: theory of history. But I think one reason why the 1293 01:06:42,360 --> 01:06:45,840 Speaker 1: people at the top um never stay that way all 1294 01:06:45,920 --> 01:06:48,840 Speaker 1: that long on like a generational basis. Why things switch 1295 01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,240 Speaker 1: and turn and the nations and power change so much 1296 01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:53,760 Speaker 1: is because they think that way. They think that the 1297 01:06:53,840 --> 01:06:56,160 Speaker 1: most important guy is the guy marching like sitting on 1298 01:06:56,240 --> 01:06:58,920 Speaker 1: the horse with that army of nameless people around him. 1299 01:06:59,400 --> 01:07:03,840 Speaker 1: And then uh, poor Serbian peasant named Gavrilo princep pulls 1300 01:07:03,840 --> 01:07:06,760 Speaker 1: out a gun and shoots the Archduke of Austria Hungary 1301 01:07:07,400 --> 01:07:11,640 Speaker 1: Empires fall in. The British Empires no longer really a thing, um, 1302 01:07:12,000 --> 01:07:14,240 Speaker 1: and like that that I think is And that's the 1303 01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:18,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing that people like Lumbourg always miss when 1304 01:07:18,400 --> 01:07:20,440 Speaker 1: they treat people like numbers like that. And it's the 1305 01:07:20,520 --> 01:07:22,320 Speaker 1: kind of thing, you know, on the other side of thing, 1306 01:07:22,360 --> 01:07:25,400 Speaker 1: It's the kind of thing that people like um, Hillary 1307 01:07:25,440 --> 01:07:28,520 Speaker 1: Clinton miss when they derive a bunch of people making 1308 01:07:28,600 --> 01:07:31,200 Speaker 1: memes on the internet is like unimportant to the overall 1309 01:07:31,240 --> 01:07:33,040 Speaker 1: thrust of the election, and then it turns out that 1310 01:07:33,080 --> 01:07:36,280 Speaker 1: actually that may have made a real difference. Yeah, yeah, 1311 01:07:37,160 --> 01:07:41,440 Speaker 1: I think that the people in power always disregard the 1312 01:07:41,520 --> 01:07:44,480 Speaker 1: potential impact of like one or a small group of 1313 01:07:44,600 --> 01:07:48,920 Speaker 1: just random people who have a thought in their head. 1314 01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,040 Speaker 1: And like I think that's I think there's nothing that's 1315 01:07:54,080 --> 01:07:58,680 Speaker 1: more powerful, um than individual people's ability to funk up 1316 01:07:58,720 --> 01:08:01,360 Speaker 1: the works. And that can be good and that can 1317 01:08:01,440 --> 01:08:04,360 Speaker 1: be bad because it means that a little girl like 1318 01:08:04,480 --> 01:08:09,000 Speaker 1: Greta Thumberg um can make a an international impact on 1319 01:08:09,120 --> 01:08:10,880 Speaker 1: a problem just by being the face of it. I 1320 01:08:10,960 --> 01:08:14,680 Speaker 1: think that is it the dala lama paraphrasing. But one 1321 01:08:14,720 --> 01:08:17,360 Speaker 1: of these quota is if you think that you're not important, 1322 01:08:17,479 --> 01:08:19,120 Speaker 1: or if you're if you think you're not big enough 1323 01:08:19,200 --> 01:08:23,080 Speaker 1: to make a change, try and sleep with a mosquito. Yeah. Um, 1324 01:08:23,400 --> 01:08:27,320 Speaker 1: And I'm really paraphising it and butcherying it. But you know, 1325 01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:30,040 Speaker 1: there's the positive side of that, then there's the negative side, 1326 01:08:30,160 --> 01:08:32,720 Speaker 1: so that a guy like bord Lumboard can misread or 1327 01:08:32,800 --> 01:08:37,320 Speaker 1: directly misinterpret a bunch of scientific studies and lead to 1328 01:08:38,040 --> 01:08:42,160 Speaker 1: have a major impact on like why we don't deal 1329 01:08:42,240 --> 01:08:44,240 Speaker 1: with the problem back when the problem is manageable and 1330 01:08:44,320 --> 01:08:47,640 Speaker 1: instead it becomes something that might consume huge chunks of 1331 01:08:47,680 --> 01:08:51,800 Speaker 1: the world uh and its population. Um. So I think 1332 01:08:51,840 --> 01:08:56,200 Speaker 1: in both ways, the little person is always more important 1333 01:08:56,240 --> 01:08:58,760 Speaker 1: than the big people want to give them credit for 1334 01:08:58,880 --> 01:09:01,639 Speaker 1: being um. That just not entirely a good thing. It's 1335 01:09:01,760 --> 01:09:04,360 Speaker 1: completely a moral factor in history, but it is I 1336 01:09:04,439 --> 01:09:06,560 Speaker 1: think a factor in history that the people at the 1337 01:09:06,600 --> 01:09:10,880 Speaker 1: top often Now, the good news about all of this 1338 01:09:11,080 --> 01:09:13,080 Speaker 1: is that by two thousand seven people were starting to 1339 01:09:13,160 --> 01:09:16,439 Speaker 1: get wise to be Orn's little schemes. The Guardian noted 1340 01:09:16,479 --> 01:09:18,960 Speaker 1: in their rite up of his second book, some statements 1341 01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:21,080 Speaker 1: appear to contradict each other directly. In the space of 1342 01:09:21,120 --> 01:09:23,280 Speaker 1: four pages of cool It, he writes that climate change 1343 01:09:23,320 --> 01:09:25,800 Speaker 1: will not cause massive disruptions are huge death tolls, that 1344 01:09:26,160 --> 01:09:28,839 Speaker 1: the general and long term impact will be predominantly negative, 1345 01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:30,680 Speaker 1: and that it is obvious that there are many other 1346 01:09:30,760 --> 01:09:33,559 Speaker 1: and more pressing issues. The point I've always been making, 1347 01:09:33,640 --> 01:09:35,679 Speaker 1: he explains, now, is it's not the end of the world. 1348 01:09:35,840 --> 01:09:37,160 Speaker 1: That is why we should be measuring up to what 1349 01:09:37,240 --> 01:09:39,599 Speaker 1: everybody else says, which is we should also be spending 1350 01:09:39,640 --> 01:09:43,320 Speaker 1: our money well. Speaking of spending money, well, Bjorn has 1351 01:09:43,320 --> 01:09:45,240 Speaker 1: a bunch of suggestions for stuff that we should be 1352 01:09:45,280 --> 01:09:48,679 Speaker 1: investing in rather than reducing emissions to directly fight climate change. 1353 01:09:49,000 --> 01:09:51,519 Speaker 1: He's a big advocate in improving nutrition in poor countries, 1354 01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,840 Speaker 1: improved access to contraception, more vaccinations, all of what you're 1355 01:09:54,880 --> 01:09:58,360 Speaker 1: great things. In two thousand two, Lumborg formed the Copenhagen 1356 01:09:58,400 --> 01:10:00,640 Speaker 1: Consensus Center, which he build a away to bring the 1357 01:10:00,680 --> 01:10:04,240 Speaker 1: world's top economists together to solve the planet's greatest problems, 1358 01:10:04,280 --> 01:10:06,639 Speaker 1: because of course economists are the best folks to solve 1359 01:10:06,680 --> 01:10:08,639 Speaker 1: our problems. If I had to think of one group 1360 01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:11,360 Speaker 1: of professionals most famous for never being wrong, it would 1361 01:10:11,360 --> 01:10:14,600 Speaker 1: be economists, or maybe weatherman. In two thousand eight, the 1362 01:10:14,640 --> 01:10:17,680 Speaker 1: Consensus Center ranked thirty priorities in order of like what 1363 01:10:18,000 --> 01:10:20,280 Speaker 1: should be confronted first to deal with like the greatest 1364 01:10:20,360 --> 01:10:24,479 Speaker 1: challenges of the world. Mitigating global warming was ranked last number. 1365 01:10:24,600 --> 01:10:29,200 Speaker 1: Thirty six was improving crop yields, sevent was green energy research, 1366 01:10:29,479 --> 01:10:33,679 Speaker 1: and twelve, interestingly enough, was geo engineering. And this gets 1367 01:10:33,960 --> 01:10:37,000 Speaker 1: us onto the subject of what precisely Lumborg thinks would 1368 01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,800 Speaker 1: be a better use of money than reducing emissions. He's 1369 01:10:39,840 --> 01:10:42,280 Speaker 1: come around to the necessity of climate engineering, because now 1370 01:10:42,439 --> 01:10:44,519 Speaker 1: more than a decade after he started urging everyone not 1371 01:10:44,600 --> 01:10:47,960 Speaker 1: to worry about climate change, reducing emissions is too expensive 1372 01:10:48,000 --> 01:10:50,519 Speaker 1: and slow a way to reduce climate change for his tastes, 1373 01:10:51,080 --> 01:10:54,080 Speaker 1: So that's nice. So this is something Lumborg wrote in 1374 01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:57,719 Speaker 1: two thousand nine. There is a significant delay between carbon 1375 01:10:57,760 --> 01:11:00,720 Speaker 1: cuts in any temperature drop, even halving mobile emissions by 1376 01:11:00,760 --> 01:11:02,760 Speaker 1: mid century would barely be measurable by the end of 1377 01:11:02,800 --> 01:11:05,280 Speaker 1: the century. Making green energy cheap and prevalent will also 1378 01:11:05,320 --> 01:11:07,960 Speaker 1: take a long time, consider that electrification of the global 1379 01:11:08,000 --> 01:11:10,559 Speaker 1: economy is still incomplete after more than a century of effort. 1380 01:11:10,840 --> 01:11:14,320 Speaker 1: Many methods of atmospheric engineering have been proposed. Solar radiation 1381 01:11:14,360 --> 01:11:16,800 Speaker 1: management appears to be one of the most hopeful. Atmospheric 1382 01:11:16,880 --> 01:11:19,439 Speaker 1: greenhouse gases allow sunlight to pass through, but absorb heat 1383 01:11:19,479 --> 01:11:22,599 Speaker 1: and radiate some down to the Earth's surface. Althose being equal, 1384 01:11:22,760 --> 01:11:26,120 Speaker 1: higher concentrations will warm the planet. Solar radiation management would 1385 01:11:26,120 --> 01:11:28,719 Speaker 1: bounce a little bit of sunlight back into space, reflecting 1386 01:11:28,800 --> 01:11:31,200 Speaker 1: just one of the total sunlight that strikes the Earth, 1387 01:11:31,240 --> 01:11:33,400 Speaker 1: could offset as much warming as that caused by doubling 1388 01:11:33,439 --> 01:11:37,120 Speaker 1: the pre industrial levels of greenhouse gases. When Mount Pinatubo 1389 01:11:37,320 --> 01:11:39,760 Speaker 1: erupted in nineteen nine, about a million tons of sulfur 1390 01:11:39,840 --> 01:11:42,560 Speaker 1: dioxide was pumped into the stratosphere, reacting with water to 1391 01:11:42,640 --> 01:11:44,800 Speaker 1: form a hazy layer that spread around the globe and 1392 01:11:44,920 --> 01:11:47,920 Speaker 1: by scattering an absorbing incoming sunlight, cool the Earth's surface. 1393 01:11:47,920 --> 01:11:50,439 Speaker 1: For almost two years, we could mimic this effect through 1394 01:11:50,479 --> 01:11:55,120 Speaker 1: stratospheric aerosolid insertion, essentially launching material like sulfur dioxide or 1395 01:11:55,160 --> 01:11:59,280 Speaker 1: soot into the stratosphere. Another promising approach is marine cloud whitening, 1396 01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:02,120 Speaker 1: which sprace water droplets into marine clouds to make them 1397 01:12:02,120 --> 01:12:05,599 Speaker 1: reflectable sunlight. This augments the natural process where sea salt 1398 01:12:05,640 --> 01:12:09,000 Speaker 1: from the oceans provides water vapor with cloud condensation nuclei. 1399 01:12:09,280 --> 01:12:11,360 Speaker 1: It is remarkable to consider that we could cancel out 1400 01:12:11,400 --> 01:12:14,479 Speaker 1: the centuries global warming with nineteen hundred unmanned ships spraying 1401 01:12:14,560 --> 01:12:18,120 Speaker 1: seawater missed into the air to thicken clouds. He sounds 1402 01:12:18,160 --> 01:12:21,120 Speaker 1: like he's learning his signs from that Mr. Burns episode. 1403 01:12:21,160 --> 01:12:22,880 Speaker 1: He wants to cover the sun. He's just a we'll 1404 01:12:22,960 --> 01:12:26,120 Speaker 1: just shoots sudden the sky and build two thousand boats 1405 01:12:26,200 --> 01:12:29,439 Speaker 1: to fire water up into the clouds. That's way better 1406 01:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,120 Speaker 1: than reducing emissions. That sounds economically friendly. It's just so 1407 01:12:34,360 --> 01:12:38,200 Speaker 1: fucking dumb, like like out, it's just like, don't do 1408 01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,679 Speaker 1: He tells everyone don't do anything for more than a decade, 1409 01:12:40,680 --> 01:12:42,880 Speaker 1: and then he's like, Okay, we need to launch two 1410 01:12:43,000 --> 01:12:46,200 Speaker 1: thousand giant boats to shoot seawater into the clouds and 1411 01:12:46,280 --> 01:12:50,760 Speaker 1: also if we considered spreading sulfur over the stratosphere. So 1412 01:12:51,120 --> 01:12:54,439 Speaker 1: he's gone so far on the other side that he's been, 1413 01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,519 Speaker 1: he's lost it again. Yeah, that's clearly more rational than 1414 01:12:57,640 --> 01:13:01,599 Speaker 1: cap and trade stopping rainforest log you know, in any 1415 01:13:01,680 --> 01:13:06,840 Speaker 1: of that stuff like unmanned boats and sulfur into the sky, 1416 01:13:06,960 --> 01:13:11,080 Speaker 1: all perfect solutions with no conceivable downsides. Yeah. Biorn's tactics 1417 01:13:11,120 --> 01:13:14,800 Speaker 1: have gotten no better in recent years. Uh. No better 1418 01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:19,000 Speaker 1: than that is suggesting thousands of boats, uh, shooting water 1419 01:13:19,120 --> 01:13:21,879 Speaker 1: to the sky. Uh. In two thousand fourteen, John Stossel, 1420 01:13:21,920 --> 01:13:24,760 Speaker 1: writing for Real Clear Politics, asked Bjorn Lumborg how much 1421 01:13:24,800 --> 01:13:27,439 Speaker 1: President Obama's goal of getting one million electric cars on 1422 01:13:27,520 --> 01:13:30,799 Speaker 1: the road by ten would slow down warming. Lumborg replied 1423 01:13:31,240 --> 01:13:34,639 Speaker 1: one hour. This is a symbolic act. Once again, Lumborg 1424 01:13:34,760 --> 01:13:37,960 Speaker 1: was very wrong. Greg Layden, a biological anthropologist writing for 1425 01:13:38,040 --> 01:13:41,360 Speaker 1: Science Blogs, actually spoke to an expert quote. I asked 1426 01:13:41,360 --> 01:13:44,439 Speaker 1: atmospheric scientist and energy expert John Abraham about this, and 1427 01:13:44,520 --> 01:13:46,439 Speaker 1: here's what he said. If you put one million clean 1428 01:13:46,479 --> 01:13:48,479 Speaker 1: cars on the road and have them last fifteen years 1429 01:13:48,520 --> 01:13:50,640 Speaker 1: before moving them, and you take the typical admissions of 1430 01:13:50,680 --> 01:13:53,680 Speaker 1: a vehicle and you have saved over in the last 1431 01:13:53,720 --> 01:13:55,559 Speaker 1: fifteen years, and you know, there's a bunch of number. 1432 01:13:55,600 --> 01:13:58,360 Speaker 1: Basically he crunched the numbers on it, uh, and he 1433 01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,519 Speaker 1: like came to the conclusion that over their lifetime just 1434 01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:06,240 Speaker 1: one million cars. If you did not build any additional 1435 01:14:06,320 --> 01:14:08,200 Speaker 1: cars after that point, you just put will million on 1436 01:14:08,280 --> 01:14:10,479 Speaker 1: the road and kept them there fIF fifteen years, you 1437 01:14:10,520 --> 01:14:13,719 Speaker 1: would have saved the total equivalent of twenty one hours 1438 01:14:13,800 --> 01:14:17,280 Speaker 1: of emission for the entire planet um, which is a 1439 01:14:17,320 --> 01:14:20,240 Speaker 1: significant amount. And that's again just a million, not increasing 1440 01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:22,200 Speaker 1: it at all, not replacing them after they wear out 1441 01:14:22,240 --> 01:14:25,719 Speaker 1: in fifteen years, which means Lumbourg's calculations to John Stossel 1442 01:14:25,800 --> 01:14:28,879 Speaker 1: was off by it does seem like a little scientists 1443 01:14:28,880 --> 01:14:32,439 Speaker 1: are going beyond shut up. Yeah, they're constantly shut up 1444 01:14:32,479 --> 01:14:34,880 Speaker 1: for more like twenty years now. Yeah, they've been saying, 1445 01:14:34,920 --> 01:14:37,160 Speaker 1: shut the funk up. Dude, you don't know what you're 1446 01:14:37,160 --> 01:14:39,559 Speaker 1: talking about. But I think he knows what he's doing. 1447 01:14:40,120 --> 01:14:43,280 Speaker 1: In two thousand sixteen, Bjorns Copenhagen Consensus Center was paid 1448 01:14:43,320 --> 01:14:47,240 Speaker 1: sixty thou dollars by Australia's Education Department to help produce 1449 01:14:47,280 --> 01:14:50,040 Speaker 1: a report that, among other things, called limiting world temperature 1450 01:14:50,080 --> 01:14:53,000 Speaker 1: increases to two degrees celsius a poor use of money, 1451 01:14:53,240 --> 01:14:56,160 Speaker 1: since it would leave you less than one dollar of social, economic, 1452 01:14:56,280 --> 01:15:00,200 Speaker 1: or environmental benefits for every dollar spent. Meanwhile, reducing world 1453 01:15:00,240 --> 01:15:02,840 Speaker 1: trade restrictions through the Doha Trade Round would be orn 1454 01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:06,840 Speaker 1: calculated yield two thousand and eleven dollars of benefit for 1455 01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:10,280 Speaker 1: every dollar spent. Universal contraception access would return a hundred 1456 01:15:10,280 --> 01:15:14,200 Speaker 1: and twenty dollars per dollar spent. Now, reading stuff like 1457 01:15:14,280 --> 01:15:17,040 Speaker 1: that might make you question a couple of things. Number one, 1458 01:15:17,240 --> 01:15:20,040 Speaker 1: how good is Bjorn's math? Are there any factors that 1459 01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:23,040 Speaker 1: might influence his calculation? Might have led him to calculate 1460 01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:26,200 Speaker 1: that reducing global temperature increases only yields a dollar of 1461 01:15:26,280 --> 01:15:30,559 Speaker 1: value for every dollar spent, Well, reducing trade restrictions leads 1462 01:15:30,600 --> 01:15:33,080 Speaker 1: to two thousand dollars of benefit, Like are there may 1463 01:15:33,120 --> 01:15:36,120 Speaker 1: be any conflicting interests he has that might be influencing 1464 01:15:36,240 --> 01:15:40,040 Speaker 1: his math in some way? What he thinks like economist? 1465 01:15:40,080 --> 01:15:41,640 Speaker 1: He does think like an economist. He thinks like an 1466 01:15:41,640 --> 01:15:44,679 Speaker 1: economist who might be being paid by a specific group 1467 01:15:44,880 --> 01:15:49,600 Speaker 1: of people. Well, yeah, yeah, and I do sometimes like 1468 01:15:49,840 --> 01:15:51,800 Speaker 1: some comedians. So a couple of comedians in the UK 1469 01:15:52,040 --> 01:15:55,920 Speaker 1: have gone sort of gone to the right, yes, politically speaking, 1470 01:15:55,960 --> 01:15:57,840 Speaker 1: when they weren't really like that when I sort of 1471 01:15:57,880 --> 01:16:02,479 Speaker 1: first met them, and uh, I was observing them and 1472 01:16:03,320 --> 01:16:08,400 Speaker 1: from afar and so not admiring, but understanding that, oh, yeah, 1473 01:16:08,400 --> 01:16:10,840 Speaker 1: there's more money. Yeah, if you're not getting that much 1474 01:16:10,880 --> 01:16:13,000 Speaker 1: work as a comedian that you are currently now, and 1475 01:16:13,080 --> 01:16:15,880 Speaker 1: you understand that the right is rising. They went there 1476 01:16:16,000 --> 01:16:17,960 Speaker 1: and and now they're going there and they are getting 1477 01:16:18,000 --> 01:16:21,599 Speaker 1: more work. And it's interesting because I'm going, whoa, You've 1478 01:16:21,640 --> 01:16:25,960 Speaker 1: become something totally different because you have to survive. Yeah, 1479 01:16:26,240 --> 01:16:29,519 Speaker 1: and you've decided that it's worth it to take money 1480 01:16:29,640 --> 01:16:31,840 Speaker 1: from you can't you know, you're not gonna make that 1481 01:16:31,960 --> 01:16:36,920 Speaker 1: greater living as a statistician teaching at a college in Denmark. 1482 01:16:36,960 --> 01:16:39,000 Speaker 1: You'll be comfortable, but you're not gonna you're not gonna 1483 01:16:39,040 --> 01:16:42,879 Speaker 1: be rich doing that. Whereas if you become born lumbourg 1484 01:16:43,080 --> 01:16:45,599 Speaker 1: and tell people that climate change isn't a big deal 1485 01:16:46,160 --> 01:16:49,759 Speaker 1: and open this consensus center that advises people that reducing 1486 01:16:49,800 --> 01:16:52,080 Speaker 1: trade restrictions is a better way to fight global warming 1487 01:16:52,120 --> 01:16:56,439 Speaker 1: than stopping global warming. Um, well, that actually turns out 1488 01:16:56,520 --> 01:16:59,920 Speaker 1: to pay pretty well. So I found a good break 1489 01:17:00,080 --> 01:17:03,280 Speaker 1: down of where Bjorn Lumborg's funding comes from, written by 1490 01:17:03,360 --> 01:17:06,439 Speaker 1: Graham Redfern of Diesmog, a website focused on cutting through 1491 01:17:06,439 --> 01:17:10,120 Speaker 1: the pr spin around climate change issues. Their research revealed 1492 01:17:10,200 --> 01:17:14,120 Speaker 1: that the Copenhagen Consensus Center or c c C, registered 1493 01:17:14,160 --> 01:17:16,519 Speaker 1: as a nonprofit in the United States in two thousand eight. 1494 01:17:16,920 --> 01:17:19,280 Speaker 1: Since then, it has received more than four million dollars 1495 01:17:19,360 --> 01:17:21,960 Speaker 1: in grants and donations. Three quarters of that came in 1496 01:17:22,040 --> 01:17:25,200 Speaker 1: two thousand eleven and twelve. Lumborg salary for a single 1497 01:17:25,360 --> 01:17:28,599 Speaker 1: year was seven hundred and seventy five thousand dollars, representing 1498 01:17:28,640 --> 01:17:30,680 Speaker 1: it nearly a quarter of what it had received by 1499 01:17:30,760 --> 01:17:33,599 Speaker 1: two thousand twelve. He's basically an Instagram model that's pushing 1500 01:17:33,640 --> 01:17:36,320 Speaker 1: those like drinks to lose weight. Yeah, that's exactly what 1501 01:17:36,439 --> 01:17:39,160 Speaker 1: he's doing, but like instead telling everyone not to cut 1502 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:43,360 Speaker 1: global emissions now. Back in two thousand six, when the 1503 01:17:43,640 --> 01:17:46,640 Speaker 1: uh CCC first started to look at gaining support for 1504 01:17:46,720 --> 01:17:49,960 Speaker 1: its efforts in the United States, they hired Washington lobbyists 1505 01:17:49,960 --> 01:17:54,400 Speaker 1: in PR veteran James harf Um and so like they like, 1506 01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:56,519 Speaker 1: this is a this is like a lobbying group for 1507 01:17:57,520 --> 01:18:00,680 Speaker 1: somebody in the lobbying group's primary goal has been to 1508 01:18:00,800 --> 01:18:04,120 Speaker 1: like convince people that emission should not be cut, that 1509 01:18:04,280 --> 01:18:08,000 Speaker 1: carbon should not be taxed, that fossil fuel use should 1510 01:18:08,000 --> 01:18:12,760 Speaker 1: not be reduced. Now, again, this leads us to the 1511 01:18:12,840 --> 01:18:15,120 Speaker 1: question of, like, who's actually giving these people that money, 1512 01:18:15,200 --> 01:18:16,800 Speaker 1: And we don't know where all of it comes from. 1513 01:18:16,880 --> 01:18:18,960 Speaker 1: We know that in its first year, the center received 1514 01:18:18,960 --> 01:18:21,880 Speaker 1: a hundred and twenty dollar grant from the Randolph Foundation. 1515 01:18:22,400 --> 01:18:24,840 Speaker 1: That foundation's money comes from the one point two billion 1516 01:18:24,880 --> 01:18:27,960 Speaker 1: dollars the Randolph family made by selling the chemical company 1517 01:18:28,000 --> 01:18:31,519 Speaker 1: to Procter and Gamble. The trustee of the Randolph Foundation 1518 01:18:31,720 --> 01:18:34,840 Speaker 1: is Heather Higgins, the CEO of Independent Women's Voice and 1519 01:18:34,960 --> 01:18:37,800 Speaker 1: chairman of the Independent Women's Form. And that sounds good, right, 1520 01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:42,439 Speaker 1: Independent Women's Voice. That sounds like a woke progressive organization. Yeah, 1521 01:18:43,160 --> 01:18:46,759 Speaker 1: it's actually a hardcore right wing lobbying group that accepts 1522 01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:50,320 Speaker 1: money from, among other people, Charles Coke. I look forward. 1523 01:18:53,240 --> 01:18:55,600 Speaker 1: I look forward to when they start implementing like the 1524 01:18:55,720 --> 01:19:01,360 Speaker 1: transgenders against clouds and all of these different we'll get 1525 01:19:01,400 --> 01:19:04,760 Speaker 1: it really woke. Yeah, we'll like Biorn wouldn't be the 1526 01:19:04,880 --> 01:19:07,599 Speaker 1: right spokesperson. Now, you'd hire someone who is like very 1527 01:19:07,720 --> 01:19:12,040 Speaker 1: much like I don't know, you hire someone like all 1528 01:19:12,080 --> 01:19:13,920 Speaker 1: of that money, yes, like an eight year old, like 1529 01:19:14,000 --> 01:19:16,360 Speaker 1: an eight year old kid from Cameroon, and you'd have 1530 01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:20,600 Speaker 1: him be like I love fossil fuels like that is 1531 01:19:20,720 --> 01:19:24,000 Speaker 1: that is where we're going next. Yeah, and then you'll 1532 01:19:24,040 --> 01:19:27,719 Speaker 1: call everyone racist who argues with him, and while complaining 1533 01:19:27,800 --> 01:19:29,920 Speaker 1: that all the left does is call everybody racist who 1534 01:19:30,040 --> 01:19:32,400 Speaker 1: argues with them like it's it's it's beautiful. I love 1535 01:19:32,760 --> 01:19:36,759 Speaker 1: the way the media works. It's perfect, there are no problems. 1536 01:19:37,479 --> 01:19:39,519 Speaker 1: So yeah, I'm going to read a quote from d 1537 01:19:39,640 --> 01:19:44,800 Speaker 1: smog about the Independent Women's name d smog blog. So yeah, 1538 01:19:44,840 --> 01:19:46,880 Speaker 1: they do a lot of really good analysis on like 1539 01:19:47,120 --> 01:19:51,360 Speaker 1: the disinformation campaign. The name of a company. I thought 1540 01:19:51,360 --> 01:19:52,560 Speaker 1: it was the name of a person. I was like, no, 1541 01:19:52,880 --> 01:19:55,840 Speaker 1: the great name for someone that works Graham red Fern, 1542 01:19:55,960 --> 01:19:58,400 Speaker 1: which is also a pretty good name for something read 1543 01:19:58,479 --> 01:20:00,599 Speaker 1: firm actually, but I think it's pronounced at fern. It's 1544 01:20:00,640 --> 01:20:05,800 Speaker 1: fucking Australian. I don't know, people, nothing makes sense over there. Yeah, no, 1545 01:20:05,960 --> 01:20:08,960 Speaker 1: that's not I was like most Scottish, Yeah, well Scott's 1546 01:20:09,000 --> 01:20:14,680 Speaker 1: Irish quote. Staff Writers of both organizations regularly express skepticism 1547 01:20:14,720 --> 01:20:16,960 Speaker 1: about the science of human clause climate change in site 1548 01:20:17,040 --> 01:20:20,760 Speaker 1: Lomborg's views approvingly. A recent article from the International Women's Form, 1549 01:20:20,880 --> 01:20:23,559 Speaker 1: senior fellow of Vicky Alger claimed a majority of scientists 1550 01:20:23,600 --> 01:20:26,679 Speaker 1: believe that global warming is largely nature made, ignoring several 1551 01:20:26,720 --> 01:20:29,080 Speaker 1: studies that show the vast majority of research from scientists 1552 01:20:29,080 --> 01:20:32,920 Speaker 1: studying climate change believe exactly the opposite. Now funders of 1553 01:20:32,960 --> 01:20:35,200 Speaker 1: the i w F include, as I said, the Claude 1554 01:20:35,280 --> 01:20:38,280 Speaker 1: Lamb Foundation, which is controlled by Charles Coke and the 1555 01:20:38,400 --> 01:20:41,479 Speaker 1: Donors Trust, a conservative political action fund that spent millions 1556 01:20:41,520 --> 01:20:44,639 Speaker 1: of dollars on climate change denial. This means that Charles 1557 01:20:44,720 --> 01:20:48,400 Speaker 1: Coke indirectly has helped fund be Yord Lumborg. Now Higgins 1558 01:20:48,439 --> 01:20:50,680 Speaker 1: continued to pump tens of thousands of dollars directly into 1559 01:20:50,720 --> 01:20:54,719 Speaker 1: Lumborg Center over subsequent years, but in two thousand and fourteen, 1560 01:20:54,760 --> 01:20:56,680 Speaker 1: when that de small article was written, the author was 1561 01:20:56,720 --> 01:20:59,160 Speaker 1: only able to track down where about five thousand dollars 1562 01:20:59,240 --> 01:21:01,000 Speaker 1: of the four point three million in funding it had 1563 01:21:01,000 --> 01:21:03,640 Speaker 1: received up to that point had come from. However, in 1564 01:21:03,720 --> 01:21:07,120 Speaker 1: two thousand fifteen, read Firm revealed that Paul Singer, a 1565 01:21:07,160 --> 01:21:11,240 Speaker 1: Republican billionaire venture capitalist was one of the CCCS major backers. 1566 01:21:11,520 --> 01:21:13,960 Speaker 1: He gave more than two hundred thousand dollars to the group. 1567 01:21:14,280 --> 01:21:17,240 Speaker 1: Mr Singer also helps fund the Manhattan Institute, the think 1568 01:21:17,280 --> 01:21:20,760 Speaker 1: take behind the fallacious claim that Alexandria Accassio Cortes's Green 1569 01:21:20,840 --> 01:21:24,920 Speaker 1: New Deal would cost a hundred trillion dollars. In recent years, 1570 01:21:25,000 --> 01:21:27,519 Speaker 1: Biorn Lumborg seems to have dropped most of the pretense 1571 01:21:27,600 --> 01:21:30,719 Speaker 1: of being a leftist environmentalist. He's appeared in five videos 1572 01:21:30,800 --> 01:21:33,960 Speaker 1: for Praguer University with titles like his climate change our 1573 01:21:34,000 --> 01:21:37,759 Speaker 1: biggest problem, our electric cars really green, and the Paris 1574 01:21:37,840 --> 01:21:40,880 Speaker 1: Agreement won't change the climate. His grift seems to be 1575 01:21:41,040 --> 01:21:42,960 Speaker 1: less profitable these days than it was in the era 1576 01:21:43,040 --> 01:21:46,240 Speaker 1: before mega hurricanes regularly battered our shores and records setting 1577 01:21:46,280 --> 01:21:49,320 Speaker 1: summers and wildfire seasons where a matter of course, but 1578 01:21:49,439 --> 01:21:52,479 Speaker 1: Lumborg still does a brisk business and media appearances. As 1579 01:21:52,560 --> 01:21:55,040 Speaker 1: of the writing of this episode, his most recent appearance 1580 01:21:55,120 --> 01:21:57,880 Speaker 1: was in a Fox Business video with the title green 1581 01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:02,160 Speaker 1: Innovation Trump spending. When tackling him at Change Colon Expert, 1582 01:22:02,680 --> 01:22:07,439 Speaker 1: he was the expert. YEA, let' show him what he 1583 01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:10,639 Speaker 1: looks like, now, this is Bejord Lumberg after twenty years 1584 01:22:10,680 --> 01:22:13,360 Speaker 1: of climate denial. Does he look at me? It doesn't 1585 01:22:13,400 --> 01:22:16,840 Speaker 1: look that bad. So I think you really have sold it. 1586 01:22:16,880 --> 01:22:20,080 Speaker 1: I think I was expecting like a gruesome creature. I 1587 01:22:20,200 --> 01:22:23,680 Speaker 1: think he's he's Mick jaggered at least fifty in the 1588 01:22:23,760 --> 01:22:28,799 Speaker 1: last twenty years. Jagger hasn't Mick jaggered that much. But Sophie, 1589 01:22:28,880 --> 01:22:31,519 Speaker 1: Sophie's definitely has a very negative reaction to his waddle. 1590 01:22:32,840 --> 01:22:38,040 Speaker 1: A waddle wattle shaming. This is waddle shaming. Yeah, she's 1591 01:22:38,080 --> 01:22:42,080 Speaker 1: holding her skin and making it so thicker. Now, Eric, 1592 01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:45,519 Speaker 1: if I know my audience and I don't, the one 1593 01:22:45,560 --> 01:22:47,400 Speaker 1: thing they love more than anything else is when we 1594 01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:52,120 Speaker 1: hit things. The one thing they love more than anything 1595 01:22:52,160 --> 01:22:54,360 Speaker 1: else is when we hit things. So I'm gonna give 1596 01:22:54,360 --> 01:22:57,360 Speaker 1: you the giant machette and I'm gonna throw I'm gonna 1597 01:22:57,400 --> 01:22:59,880 Speaker 1: throw it right past all of the recording equipment. But 1598 01:23:00,000 --> 01:23:02,960 Speaker 1: because that's a good idea, Yeah, he's got holding one. 1599 01:23:03,080 --> 01:23:04,680 Speaker 1: Are you holding the whole bag? I'm gonna throw the 1600 01:23:04,720 --> 01:23:06,679 Speaker 1: whole bag. I always took the whole back. It would 1601 01:23:06,680 --> 01:23:09,360 Speaker 1: be irresponsible to throw a single bagel, all right, So 1602 01:23:09,520 --> 01:23:11,880 Speaker 1: I'm going to throw them at Eric, who's wielding the 1603 01:23:11,960 --> 01:23:14,360 Speaker 1: machete as if it were a baseball bat, and he's 1604 01:23:14,360 --> 01:23:15,640 Speaker 1: going to try to hit him as hard as he 1605 01:23:15,680 --> 01:23:17,680 Speaker 1: can and really just swing it. There's nothing you can 1606 01:23:17,760 --> 01:23:20,280 Speaker 1: hurt in this room full of delicate electronic equipment, nothing 1607 01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,519 Speaker 1: at all. Audience. I have Anderson, she has protected Anderson's fine. 1608 01:23:23,760 --> 01:23:27,479 Speaker 1: All right, I'm gonna throw it. Yeah, alright, tossing back 1609 01:23:27,479 --> 01:23:28,760 Speaker 1: to me. We got it, you got you got it. 1610 01:23:28,800 --> 01:23:30,719 Speaker 1: We gotta get it. We gotta get him going across 1611 01:23:30,760 --> 01:23:34,320 Speaker 1: the road, because it's conscious going if you drop it. 1612 01:23:34,520 --> 01:23:38,720 Speaker 1: No one's ever been hurt by a two ft machete, never, 1613 01:23:39,080 --> 01:23:44,400 Speaker 1: not once in history. Yeah, I didn't make a very 1614 01:23:44,439 --> 01:23:47,720 Speaker 1: smooth samurai cut. It's okay. It takes practice to really 1615 01:23:47,720 --> 01:23:50,280 Speaker 1: be able to do damage with that thing. But I 1616 01:23:50,360 --> 01:23:52,559 Speaker 1: definitely got really happy with how that went. How did 1617 01:23:52,600 --> 01:23:55,639 Speaker 1: it feel? I felt? I feel really manly. I want 1618 01:23:55,680 --> 01:23:57,720 Speaker 1: to go to war now. Yeah, I see. I see 1619 01:23:57,760 --> 01:24:00,840 Speaker 1: how easily I could be turned. You know, everyone can. 1620 01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:04,920 Speaker 1: And if people like Lumbard get their way that that 1621 01:24:06,040 --> 01:24:08,280 Speaker 1: I will be buying a lot more machetes for a 1622 01:24:08,320 --> 01:24:09,679 Speaker 1: lot of people to try to get him. The field 1623 01:24:09,720 --> 01:24:11,320 Speaker 1: that way, I see that there is a box of 1624 01:24:11,360 --> 01:24:13,800 Speaker 1: tissues on the table. I'm now gonna grab him and 1625 01:24:13,880 --> 01:24:17,840 Speaker 1: I will remove the prints from the actual machette out 1626 01:24:17,880 --> 01:24:23,880 Speaker 1: of dumb man. There we go, I did grab the blade. 1627 01:24:24,000 --> 01:24:28,760 Speaker 1: I'm gonna find Lumbourg's Hollywood Hills home. I've seen enough 1628 01:24:28,800 --> 01:24:31,080 Speaker 1: cs I to know how to get rid of. I 1629 01:24:31,120 --> 01:24:33,479 Speaker 1: don't think he lives in the Hollywood Hills because it's 1630 01:24:33,520 --> 01:24:35,480 Speaker 1: one of the places it's going to face the consequences 1631 01:24:35,520 --> 01:24:41,400 Speaker 1: of climate change fastest. Anderson is on the mic and 1632 01:24:41,520 --> 01:24:45,360 Speaker 1: you get onto me for pouring liquids on the microphones? 1633 01:24:46,360 --> 01:24:51,040 Speaker 1: What's wrong with Anderson on the microphone? Anderson slabbers sometimes 1634 01:24:51,200 --> 01:24:57,280 Speaker 1: the classy broad, classy broadskin slab She's a good dog. Eric, 1635 01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:59,000 Speaker 1: You got any plugg doubles to plug now or at 1636 01:24:59,000 --> 01:25:01,320 Speaker 1: the end of our episode? Yeah. I do have an 1637 01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:04,439 Speaker 1: album called Alien of Extraordinary Ability, which is the title 1638 01:25:04,520 --> 01:25:07,680 Speaker 1: that the American government gives you, and I say, you know, 1639 01:25:07,960 --> 01:25:11,719 Speaker 1: outsiders when when they come in and apply for a visa. 1640 01:25:11,880 --> 01:25:14,960 Speaker 1: That is a sweet title, like our our immigration. But 1641 01:25:15,120 --> 01:25:18,040 Speaker 1: that's a great title, Alien of Extraordinary Ability. So I 1642 01:25:18,200 --> 01:25:21,000 Speaker 1: like that. So that's an album I've also got you know, 1643 01:25:21,640 --> 01:25:23,280 Speaker 1: my show. If you're in Los Angeles, I've got a 1644 01:25:23,280 --> 01:25:25,719 Speaker 1: show called Born of Chaos, which is about the time 1645 01:25:25,760 --> 01:25:29,000 Speaker 1: I escaped the psychiatric hospital. Um, so you know I've 1646 01:25:29,040 --> 01:25:31,880 Speaker 1: got some things. Just basically follow me on Instagram. That 1647 01:25:32,040 --> 01:25:36,080 Speaker 1: title makes me want to marry a European, renounce my 1648 01:25:36,240 --> 01:25:39,360 Speaker 1: US citizenship, become any UTH citizen, go through that whole 1649 01:25:39,479 --> 01:25:43,040 Speaker 1: year's long process, and then move back to the United 1650 01:25:43,120 --> 01:25:45,040 Speaker 1: States and get a green card so that I can 1651 01:25:45,080 --> 01:25:47,840 Speaker 1: be declared an alien of an extraordinary ability. Yeah, it's 1652 01:25:47,840 --> 01:25:50,240 Speaker 1: pretty cool. Also, I'm no longer because now I have 1653 01:25:50,320 --> 01:25:53,000 Speaker 1: a green card. When you get a green car, yes, 1654 01:25:53,080 --> 01:25:56,800 Speaker 1: and now I'm I'm a permanent resident. Well that's not 1655 01:25:56,920 --> 01:25:59,519 Speaker 1: as cool as it being an alien with extraordinary ability. No, 1656 01:25:59,600 --> 01:26:01,479 Speaker 1: but I want was and it felt good and I'm 1657 01:26:01,479 --> 01:26:04,840 Speaker 1: sure it did right well, audience, check out Alien of 1658 01:26:04,880 --> 01:26:07,720 Speaker 1: Extraordinary Ability. Um, I will say as well. I'm now 1659 01:26:07,840 --> 01:26:11,439 Speaker 1: leaving this podcast slightly angrier. Yeah you should. Everyone should 1660 01:26:11,520 --> 01:26:14,040 Speaker 1: leave the podcast angrier. I mean, I hope like Catharsis 1661 01:26:14,120 --> 01:26:18,560 Speaker 1: of hitting the bagels with the Yeah. Sure, yeah, I 1662 01:26:18,680 --> 01:26:20,840 Speaker 1: see I see why. Um, I see why people get 1663 01:26:20,920 --> 01:26:24,400 Speaker 1: there and go out. I am in no way training 1664 01:26:24,479 --> 01:26:27,600 Speaker 1: the audience for things to come by by pushing machetes 1665 01:26:27,640 --> 01:26:29,800 Speaker 1: and bolt cutters on people and teaching them that these 1666 01:26:29,880 --> 01:26:32,439 Speaker 1: objects can can can help them deal with their anger 1667 01:26:32,479 --> 01:26:35,120 Speaker 1: at the bastards or what I'm doing at all. And 1668 01:26:35,200 --> 01:26:39,760 Speaker 1: I do wonder what your machetes coming by them? You know, 1669 01:26:39,880 --> 01:26:42,160 Speaker 1: any machete company that wants to sell branded behind the 1670 01:26:42,240 --> 01:26:44,360 Speaker 1: bastard's machetes. I feel like we can make a lot 1671 01:26:44,400 --> 01:26:46,439 Speaker 1: of money with them. Same thing with bolt cutters, because 1672 01:26:46,520 --> 01:26:48,840 Speaker 1: we're we're big into the pushing bolt cutters right now. 1673 01:26:48,880 --> 01:26:51,360 Speaker 1: I just have to suggest people get basically anything with 1674 01:26:51,439 --> 01:26:53,760 Speaker 1: the cheap Harper freight ones because that's won't cut through 1675 01:26:55,280 --> 01:26:59,400 Speaker 1: theoretically beats his security gate. You really you want some 1676 01:26:59,560 --> 01:27:01,559 Speaker 1: like heavy beuty bolt cutters you want to be spending. 1677 01:27:01,600 --> 01:27:04,600 Speaker 1: I'm sure it's available. You could in fact get the 1678 01:27:04,680 --> 01:27:06,920 Speaker 1: bolt cutters from it one that you used to break 1679 01:27:06,960 --> 01:27:11,519 Speaker 1: through his security. Uh yeah, not that we encourage that behavior, 1680 01:27:12,120 --> 01:27:14,240 Speaker 1: because we don't. It does seem like that's what that's 1681 01:27:14,240 --> 01:27:16,120 Speaker 1: where I was gonna go, like in twenty years time, 1682 01:27:16,360 --> 01:27:18,840 Speaker 1: like you know, it's gonna be Hunger Games style. Um, 1683 01:27:19,200 --> 01:27:21,800 Speaker 1: you know, the masses versus Amazon you know, my hope 1684 01:27:21,880 --> 01:27:24,360 Speaker 1: is that we can avoid that by by making some 1685 01:27:24,479 --> 01:27:28,719 Speaker 1: pretty sharp course corrections now. But if we can't, Fiskers 1686 01:27:28,760 --> 01:27:33,640 Speaker 1: brand machetes resist rust very well. Uh. So you know 1687 01:27:34,800 --> 01:27:40,519 Speaker 1: they'll chop bagels, they'll chop through Uh okay, yeah, you're right, Sophie. 1688 01:27:40,560 --> 01:27:43,799 Speaker 1: How do we lead this out without me at suggesting 1689 01:27:43,840 --> 01:27:48,040 Speaker 1: more crimes? A firm handshake? Do you have, UM anything 1690 01:27:48,160 --> 01:27:51,840 Speaker 1: you want to plug? I already talked about bolt cutters. No, 1691 01:27:51,960 --> 01:27:55,160 Speaker 1: I mean, like, hey, what about the environment? Bro? I 1692 01:27:55,240 --> 01:27:57,479 Speaker 1: just want to plug trees. I do want to plug trees. 1693 01:27:57,560 --> 01:28:02,880 Speaker 1: What tree frogs? Not mine? Sophie's wearing a sweater. It 1694 01:28:02,920 --> 01:28:08,720 Speaker 1: seems comfortable. We have shirts on t public dot com 1695 01:28:09,120 --> 01:28:12,640 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards UM. You can find the podcast on 1696 01:28:12,680 --> 01:28:15,040 Speaker 1: behind the Bastards dot com where the sources will be 1697 01:28:15,160 --> 01:28:17,560 Speaker 1: although the coding of the site is sometimes broken, but 1698 01:28:17,920 --> 01:28:21,000 Speaker 1: you can generally figure out what the sources are. UM. 1699 01:28:21,479 --> 01:28:24,040 Speaker 1: And you can find us on Twitter and Instagram at 1700 01:28:24,200 --> 01:28:27,439 Speaker 1: at Bastard's pod. Uh. You can find me on Twitter 1701 01:28:27,520 --> 01:28:30,200 Speaker 1: at I right, okay, And I have a new podcast 1702 01:28:30,400 --> 01:28:32,720 Speaker 1: with my friends Cody and Katie called Worst Year Ever 1703 01:28:32,880 --> 01:28:37,800 Speaker 1: about the election, so we I definitely will definitely talk 1704 01:28:37,880 --> 01:28:40,240 Speaker 1: more about bolt cutters and machetes on that podcast, so 1705 01:28:40,520 --> 01:28:43,280 Speaker 1: if that's something you're into, check it out. Eric. Thanks 1706 01:28:43,360 --> 01:28:46,600 Speaker 1: for being on the show until next week. Hug a 1707 01:28:46,680 --> 01:28:50,040 Speaker 1: Cat buy some bolt cutters. Consider investing in the machete 1708 01:28:50,120 --> 01:28:50,439 Speaker 1: your three