WEBVTT - Anaïs Mitchell 0:00:15.436 --> 0:00:24.236 Pushkin. Today we're hearing from singer, songwriter and playwright Annaeus Mitchell. 0:00:25.356 --> 0:00:28.836 Annaus Mitchell spent the past sixteen years building the world 0:00:28.956 --> 0:00:34.556 of Hadestown, a career defining stage musical. Hadestown is a 0:00:34.596 --> 0:00:39.716 Depression era retelling of the Greek myth of Orpheus, euridice, Hades, 0:00:39.916 --> 0:00:43.156 and Persephone. It has grown from a low budget community 0:00:43.196 --> 0:00:46.476 production in her native Vermont to a concept album to 0:00:46.596 --> 0:00:50.836 a Broadway phenomenon in the winner of eight Tony Awards, 0:00:50.876 --> 0:00:55.436 including Best Musical and Best Original Score. But in March 0:00:55.476 --> 0:00:59.156 twenty twenty, when the COVID nineteen pandemic shuttered theaters, Annaeus, 0:00:59.276 --> 0:01:02.716 like so many others, moved back home to Vermont. She 0:01:02.876 --> 0:01:06.276 was nine months pregnant with her second child. The move 0:01:06.356 --> 0:01:09.156 and change of pace inspired her to start writing in 0:01:09.236 --> 0:01:12.956 d folk songs. Her self titled album, released at the 0:01:12.996 --> 0:01:16.036 beginning of twenty twenty two, is made up of those songs. 0:01:16.676 --> 0:01:19.716 It's produced by Josh Kaufman and was made with collaborators 0:01:19.716 --> 0:01:23.556 like Boni Vair, The National, and her own band, Bonnie 0:01:23.636 --> 0:01:26.996 Light Horseman. The project is a Nais's first collection of 0:01:26.996 --> 0:01:30.196 all new material under her own name in ten years. 0:01:30.996 --> 0:01:34.036 On today's episode, Bruce Hedlum speaks with a Naias Mitchell 0:01:34.196 --> 0:01:36.796 about her new album. Her experience is growing up in 0:01:36.836 --> 0:01:39.796 a small town and how Hades Town came to be. 0:01:40.476 --> 0:01:42.996 She also played some songs off her new album live 0:01:43.396 --> 0:01:49.276 for us. This is broken record liner notes for the 0:01:49.316 --> 0:01:53.436 digital age. I'm justin Mitchell. Before we get into the conversation, 0:01:53.676 --> 0:01:56.956 here's a Nus Mitchell's live performance of her song bright 0:01:56.996 --> 0:02:22.356 Star off her new album Bright Star. When I first 0:02:22.436 --> 0:02:25.156 laid eyes upon you, I was filled with such a 0:02:25.236 --> 0:02:28.996 longing to be with you in the dark, bright Star. 0:02:31.076 --> 0:02:34.236 Since I could not fly beside you, I would shine 0:02:34.316 --> 0:02:38.316 my own course by you, and I sailed by your light. 0:02:46.876 --> 0:02:51.636 Break Star. I have sailed in all directions. I have 0:02:51.756 --> 0:02:56.636 followed your reflection to the farthest foreign short bread Star, 0:02:57.156 --> 0:03:00.756 Bright Star. I have anchored in the harbor. I have 0:03:00.876 --> 0:03:05.396 brought my gifts to barter board drifters, bedding board, bread Star. 0:03:07.516 --> 0:03:10.636 I have drunk the wine of age in the company 0:03:10.676 --> 0:03:14.476 of strangers. We have sung in tongues of angels, and 0:03:14.596 --> 0:03:18.196 then stumbled on the pavement. And I understood my place 0:03:18.996 --> 0:03:23.476 and my purpose in relation to the young and ancient knights. 0:03:41.836 --> 0:03:46.476 Bright Star, I am home now from my roaming. I'm 0:03:46.516 --> 0:03:49.516 a lowe ni in the blooming with a ship's sod 0:03:49.596 --> 0:03:54.916 in the yard, Bright Star, there's a thought upon me, dawning. 0:03:55.636 --> 0:03:59.476 You've launched a thousand longings, and I don't know who 0:03:59.556 --> 0:04:05.756 you are, right Star. You have never been my vessel 0:04:06.556 --> 0:04:09.636 or the wind my sails are wrestling, or lands to 0:04:09.756 --> 0:04:13.116 a check travel or the friends with you my revel. 0:04:13.636 --> 0:04:16.236 There are lengths to it you'll never know. I went 0:04:16.756 --> 0:04:20.236 to be your lover and you love it and your sight, 0:04:29.476 --> 0:04:34.116 Bright Star. When I first laid eyes upon you, I 0:04:34.236 --> 0:04:37.076 was filled with such a longing to be with you 0:04:37.156 --> 0:04:42.316 in the dark, Bright Star. If I could have flown 0:04:42.396 --> 0:04:45.236 beside you, I would not have had the sight of 0:04:45.316 --> 0:04:50.116 you to guide me through the world. So why and 0:04:50.316 --> 0:05:00.556 bright So your self titled album? Why are self titled 0:05:00.596 --> 0:05:02.916 albums always late in people's careers? Now? I don't know. 0:05:03.516 --> 0:05:06.156 Tell me about making this album, right, It's funny to 0:05:06.236 --> 0:05:08.836 make a self titled record at this stage, but for me, 0:05:08.876 --> 0:05:12.636 if really appropriate, Like, I started out as a singer songwriter, 0:05:12.716 --> 0:05:14.676 and I you know, made a bunch of records when 0:05:14.676 --> 0:05:17.396 I was sort of in my twenties, and then I 0:05:17.436 --> 0:05:20.636 started working on this musical Hades Town in my mid twenties, 0:05:20.676 --> 0:05:24.476 and it just sort of took over my creative world. 0:05:24.596 --> 0:05:27.636 And so it had been a long time since I 0:05:27.676 --> 0:05:29.636 had actually been able to sit down with my guitar 0:05:29.676 --> 0:05:32.436 and write kind of what wanted to pass through my heart, 0:05:32.596 --> 0:05:35.556 regardless of you know, plot and character development and all 0:05:35.596 --> 0:05:38.156 that stuff. And so it felt like a return in 0:05:38.196 --> 0:05:42.116 a way. And also, the songs on this record are 0:05:42.156 --> 0:05:45.796 all actually my own. I'm the speaker in all the 0:05:45.836 --> 0:05:49.276 songs is me, and the stories are my stories, which 0:05:49.756 --> 0:05:51.876 I kind of had never let myself do, Like I 0:05:51.916 --> 0:05:55.356 always wanted to take on the voices of other characters 0:05:55.436 --> 0:05:59.316 and kind of tell other stories. It's a confessional, you know, 0:05:59.436 --> 0:06:02.196 confessional record, and so it felt right to put my 0:06:02.276 --> 0:06:06.276 name on it. You know, that's funny because I would 0:06:06.276 --> 0:06:09.516 have assumed that your early things were confessional too, And 0:06:09.636 --> 0:06:12.796 maybe that's just the unfair cliche about women songwriters that 0:06:12.836 --> 0:06:15.956 they're always just, you know, men are creating characters, women 0:06:15.956 --> 0:06:18.516 are just pouring out their hearts. Well, but your early 0:06:18.516 --> 0:06:20.596 songs were like that, that you were taking on character. 0:06:20.676 --> 0:06:23.636 I mean, there was a few heart poorer songs, but 0:06:23.876 --> 0:06:26.036 from early on I really was kind of interested in 0:06:26.116 --> 0:06:29.156 dressing that stuff up in different ways. But you know, 0:06:29.316 --> 0:06:32.316 my very first record was like quite political. Actually, it 0:06:32.356 --> 0:06:36.356 was influenced by like protest music and early early Bob 0:06:36.436 --> 0:06:39.116 Dylan and stuff like that. And I made a record 0:06:39.276 --> 0:06:43.316 later called young Man in America, which was, yeah, really 0:06:43.356 --> 0:06:45.556 taking out a lot of the voices of other characters, 0:06:45.876 --> 0:06:48.116 and a lot of me was in there. A lot 0:06:48.156 --> 0:06:50.436 of my feelings were in there, but I didn't have 0:06:50.516 --> 0:06:52.596 to stand there and sing it as if it was 0:06:52.636 --> 0:06:55.316 my own story. And I think I was maybe a 0:06:55.316 --> 0:07:00.196 little nervous to do a confessional sounding thing. I was 0:07:00.236 --> 0:07:02.996 afraid to be navel gazy in a way that I 0:07:03.076 --> 0:07:06.396 may be perceived in the nineteen nineties, like Coffeehouse World. 0:07:06.836 --> 0:07:09.716 I wanted to do something different than that. What is 0:07:09.756 --> 0:07:12.356 it like now to get up on stage and confess 0:07:12.396 --> 0:07:16.796 your inner thoughts to an audience? Well, everything is different now, 0:07:17.076 --> 0:07:19.076 you know. I think so many of us are just 0:07:19.076 --> 0:07:22.156 trying to figure out who we are and what is 0:07:22.196 --> 0:07:25.716 this what we do post pandemic and also for me 0:07:25.796 --> 0:07:28.796 post Haiti's sound, because that became my identity for so long, 0:07:29.356 --> 0:07:31.276 and so to actually get up and play my own 0:07:31.276 --> 0:07:34.636 songs and it feels familiar and also totally different. But 0:07:35.036 --> 0:07:39.236 I love what can happen with just kind of vulnerability 0:07:39.716 --> 0:07:44.116 of connecting with an audience. So there's something about opening 0:07:44.156 --> 0:07:47.516 your mouth really wide to sing that feels vulnerable in 0:07:47.556 --> 0:07:49.916 its own right, but then to also be trying to 0:07:49.956 --> 0:07:53.316 just kind of be as hard on sleeve as possible. 0:07:53.756 --> 0:07:56.356 That felt like the project for this batch of songs. 0:07:56.796 --> 0:07:58.996 Are there times you have trouble doing that on stage? 0:07:59.756 --> 0:08:05.396 There's times when it doesn't feel real, Like if it 0:08:05.436 --> 0:08:10.236 doesn't feel authentic, then it especially feels like a problem 0:08:10.316 --> 0:08:12.956 because the songs are so from the heart, do you 0:08:12.996 --> 0:08:14.996 know to mean? Like, if I'm playing a Haities sound 0:08:15.156 --> 0:08:19.436 song and I'm not one hundred percent feeling it, it's okay. 0:08:19.956 --> 0:08:22.476 But if it's you know, a heart poem and I'm 0:08:22.636 --> 0:08:25.236 sort of out to lunch, that doesn't feel right. But 0:08:25.276 --> 0:08:28.556 I wouldn't say that it's scary in terms of like 0:08:28.756 --> 0:08:32.036 to share the feelings. I love to do that. When 0:08:32.076 --> 0:08:34.316 I sat down to listen to the record, the first 0:08:34.316 --> 0:08:36.196 song is Brooklyn Bridge, and I think, oh, this is 0:08:36.236 --> 0:08:39.076 going to be because you were out of New York 0:08:39.116 --> 0:08:40.796 for the pandemic, I thought, Oh, this is just going 0:08:40.836 --> 0:08:42.476 to be a New York record I'm missing it. I'm 0:08:42.476 --> 0:08:44.796 missing it. It's not but the first song is this 0:08:44.956 --> 0:08:47.916 very romantic song about being in New York. Did you 0:08:47.956 --> 0:08:52.436 miss it? Yeah? I totally missed it, so right. The 0:08:52.436 --> 0:08:55.116 backstory is I was right about to have our second 0:08:55.196 --> 0:08:59.036 baby in March of twenty twenty and made a really 0:08:59.116 --> 0:09:02.596 like eleventh hour decision to pack a car and drive 0:09:02.636 --> 0:09:04.916 to Vermont, which is where I was born and raise 0:09:05.156 --> 0:09:08.676 and that sort of time of stillness. Up there, I 0:09:08.716 --> 0:09:11.836 wrote a bunch of songs, and Brooklyn Bridge is actually 0:09:11.876 --> 0:09:13.956 when that I had I had tried to write when 0:09:13.996 --> 0:09:16.516 I was living in New York. I had the idea, 0:09:16.596 --> 0:09:18.996 and I almost like I wouldn't let myself write it. 0:09:18.996 --> 0:09:23.516 It felt like overly romantic, and even like the word 0:09:23.556 --> 0:09:26.956 Brooklyn I didn't want to use. And then finally when 0:09:27.036 --> 0:09:29.356 I left the city, I just kind of let myself 0:09:29.516 --> 0:09:32.356 feel the feelings of romance that I always have felt 0:09:32.396 --> 0:09:35.716 about this town. I was commuting to Manhattan a lot 0:09:35.756 --> 0:09:38.076 from Brooklyn when I was working on Haiti Stone, and 0:09:38.556 --> 0:09:41.476 there are some really special rides that I had with 0:09:41.676 --> 0:09:45.396 Rachel Chapkin, the director of the show. Sometimes, like after 0:09:45.436 --> 0:09:47.396 a really long day and a long night of like 0:09:47.476 --> 0:09:49.636 tech and rehearsal, and then a meeting at the bar 0:09:49.756 --> 0:09:52.076 about the show, and then we'd be in a cabin 0:09:52.396 --> 0:09:54.596 riding over the bridge back to Brooklyn and kind of 0:09:55.156 --> 0:09:57.756 all of our hopes and dreams for the show, and 0:09:57.796 --> 0:10:00.036 some of that is in that song. So tell me 0:10:00.076 --> 0:10:03.916 now about Bright Star. So I had landed in Vermont, 0:10:03.996 --> 0:10:07.236 had the baby one week after we got there, and 0:10:07.276 --> 0:10:10.756 then literally I could see the star again. I moved 0:10:10.756 --> 0:10:14.396 back to this family land, which is a sheep farm 0:10:14.436 --> 0:10:16.876 that my parents bought and like the seventies, and my 0:10:16.916 --> 0:10:19.196 parents have a house there. My brother's family as a house, 0:10:19.236 --> 0:10:21.396 and when my grandparents were alive, they had a little 0:10:21.436 --> 0:10:24.196 house on this same land, and that's where we moved to. 0:10:24.676 --> 0:10:27.716 And the stars are just thick up there, and so 0:10:28.476 --> 0:10:30.756 I was seeing that, and also I think, you know, 0:10:30.916 --> 0:10:34.156 we were all in that just strange time of stillness 0:10:34.276 --> 0:10:37.356 after so much activity, and it was really the first 0:10:37.356 --> 0:10:39.676 time I'd stayed in one place for as long as 0:10:39.716 --> 0:10:42.756 I could remember, the gaining of like a little bit 0:10:42.756 --> 0:10:48.196 of perspective on all of that restless pursuit of whatever 0:10:48.236 --> 0:10:51.716 it is, you know, whatever it is you're chasing, and 0:10:51.916 --> 0:10:56.116 kind of a feeling of making peace with it. That 0:10:56.276 --> 0:11:00.116 to me is what that song's about. Was it strange 0:11:00.276 --> 0:11:03.196 living with your parents again, or living around your parents 0:11:03.196 --> 0:11:06.996 and your family? It was amazing, really, Yeah, it was amazing, 0:11:07.076 --> 0:11:10.516 especially having a little newborn to just be in the 0:11:10.876 --> 0:11:13.876 family kind of fold. And because everyone was locked down 0:11:13.876 --> 0:11:15.756 and quarantined at that time, and we had a whole 0:11:15.796 --> 0:11:18.076 farm full of people. You know, one person could go 0:11:18.116 --> 0:11:21.556 shopping for us all and we'd have like dinners together, 0:11:21.676 --> 0:11:23.596 and you know, I mean the other side of the 0:11:23.676 --> 0:11:26.516 stories that we've ended up staying in Vermont, like we 0:11:26.556 --> 0:11:29.116 haven't moved back to New York. And then you know, 0:11:29.316 --> 0:11:32.676 it became Okay, I'm going to be in proximity with 0:11:32.716 --> 0:11:37.036 my parents, my brother, my old friends, my like ninth 0:11:37.036 --> 0:11:38.796 grade English teachers. I'm going to run into on the 0:11:38.796 --> 0:11:41.036 street because in this small town where I grew up, 0:11:41.076 --> 0:11:43.356 and that had you know, all kinds of feelings that 0:11:43.396 --> 0:11:46.876 came with that, Like I was a little scared to 0:11:47.076 --> 0:11:51.116 confront that stuff. But it's been pretty special and like 0:11:51.636 --> 0:11:55.316 healing in a way to like re establish myself in 0:11:55.356 --> 0:11:57.636 that community, Like I'll here I am now at this 0:11:57.716 --> 0:12:00.556 point in my life. Well, because you've got great songs 0:12:00.556 --> 0:12:03.636 about growing up there, but almost from this from this 0:12:03.716 --> 0:12:08.756 adult perspective, back Roads and a Little Big Girl. Yeah, 0:12:08.836 --> 0:12:11.196 there there's a lot on this record that was inspired 0:12:11.236 --> 0:12:14.756 by returning to my home place and having a lot 0:12:14.796 --> 0:12:17.676 of memories about growing up there and also seeing it 0:12:17.716 --> 0:12:19.596 with the new eyes. I think that is the thing, 0:12:20.356 --> 0:12:23.076 especially like it's a super small town, but I didn't 0:12:23.076 --> 0:12:25.676 know that growing up. You know, how big is it? Um, 0:12:25.796 --> 0:12:30.716 that's a question I never know my answer, Like populations, demographics, 0:12:30.756 --> 0:12:32.676 I don't know. But but the town I went to 0:12:32.756 --> 0:12:36.276 high school in essentially there's one main street, there's a 0:12:36.476 --> 0:12:40.956 there's a pizza shop, there's like a coffee shop, there's 0:12:41.036 --> 0:12:45.956 a bar, and that's pretty much it. What was growing 0:12:46.036 --> 0:12:47.956 up there? Like what was it like in your home? 0:12:48.036 --> 0:12:49.836 Is there a lot of music in your house? So 0:12:49.916 --> 0:12:53.996 my parents are not musicians, but my dad can carry 0:12:53.996 --> 0:12:58.156 a tune. My mom can't. And my dad was and 0:12:58.396 --> 0:13:01.316 is a writer. He wrote novels when he was young, 0:13:01.396 --> 0:13:04.956 and then more kind of nonfiction stuff when he was older, 0:13:04.956 --> 0:13:08.116 and he became an English professor at Middlebury College, which 0:13:08.156 --> 0:13:10.236 is right near where I would grew up. And he 0:13:10.316 --> 0:13:14.156 also loves music and had a great record collection, and 0:13:14.316 --> 0:13:16.796 it lived kind of in the library with the books, 0:13:16.836 --> 0:13:20.916 and he loves lyrics. He would sing along to stuff 0:13:20.956 --> 0:13:22.716 and he would know every word. And this is kind 0:13:22.756 --> 0:13:24.956 of a special thing for me to witness as a kid. 0:13:25.396 --> 0:13:27.396 So certainly, like I grew up in a house with 0:13:27.436 --> 0:13:30.596 a love of words, and I wanted to be a 0:13:30.596 --> 0:13:32.236 writer of some kind. And then it turned out like 0:13:32.276 --> 0:13:35.276 my way was to write songs. What was his record 0:13:35.316 --> 0:13:38.196 collection folk revival stuff, so it was Bob Dylan and 0:13:38.276 --> 0:13:41.556 Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell and then some kind of 0:13:41.756 --> 0:13:44.916 psychedelic rock like the Grateful Dead records and what are 0:13:44.956 --> 0:13:49.276 they called Love It Underground. Yeah, you don't want to 0:13:49.316 --> 0:13:52.276 forget that. Yeah, no, No, in New York they're not 0:13:52.276 --> 0:13:55.436 going to let you back in more. Sure you're gonna 0:13:55.436 --> 0:13:57.236 have to leave. Yeah. I mean it's all if you 0:13:57.236 --> 0:14:00.796 think about it's all very lyrically interesting stuff that he 0:14:00.836 --> 0:14:04.156 was into. My parents were like hippies. They grew up 0:14:04.196 --> 0:14:07.116 in the suburbs and they bought this farm as part 0:14:07.116 --> 0:14:09.236 of the kind of back to the land movement, and 0:14:09.276 --> 0:14:11.916 that that's where they went, was to Vermont, And I 0:14:11.956 --> 0:14:14.196 was raised with my older brother there on this farm, 0:14:14.236 --> 0:14:17.916 and no television. My mom was anti television, so there 0:14:17.996 --> 0:14:21.116 was a lot of just wild running half naked in 0:14:21.156 --> 0:14:25.036 the woods and making up games and stuff like that. 0:14:25.276 --> 0:14:28.196 They were pro sheep anti tell yeah you got it. 0:14:28.916 --> 0:14:31.876 When did the guitar start? Yeah? My first instrument was 0:14:31.916 --> 0:14:35.676 a violin that I studied from age seven. I loved it, 0:14:35.796 --> 0:14:38.076 and also I hated it and I didn't want to 0:14:38.116 --> 0:14:40.236 practice it and things like that. When I finally let 0:14:40.276 --> 0:14:43.156 go of that, I picked up the guitar and I 0:14:43.196 --> 0:14:46.396 took like a few lessons, very casually from a guy 0:14:46.436 --> 0:14:49.596 who would essentially just teach me to play the songs 0:14:49.636 --> 0:14:52.236 I wanted to learn, which was a great motivator for 0:14:52.236 --> 0:14:53.996 actually learning how to play the guitar. And I guess 0:14:54.036 --> 0:14:56.836 I was maybe fifteen or sixteen. What were those songs? 0:14:56.996 --> 0:15:01.676 Annie de Franco was a big one. Yeah, Mary Shaping Carpenter. 0:15:01.756 --> 0:15:04.236 I mean, I was into a lot of female songwriters 0:15:04.236 --> 0:15:07.756 that were kind of blossoming in that era. Dar Williams 0:15:08.156 --> 0:15:11.276 was one. Tory Amos, although that's sort of piano bassed, 0:15:11.276 --> 0:15:14.476 so I didn't really learn those. But yeah, you have 0:15:14.476 --> 0:15:18.076 a very particular guitar playing style you Travis pick, but 0:15:18.116 --> 0:15:22.076 it's not the kind of usual. Yeah, and Travis Pick, 0:15:22.116 --> 0:15:24.276 where did you? How did you get that? I don't 0:15:24.356 --> 0:15:26.356 use a pick? I really only put with my fingers, 0:15:26.476 --> 0:15:30.076 and yeah, it's bizarre. The guy that I learned from 0:15:30.156 --> 0:15:34.196 justin Purdue is his name was like a jazzer and 0:15:33.476 --> 0:15:36.396 he played with his fingers and he was double jointed 0:15:36.436 --> 0:15:39.636 in his hands and he could play these beautiful, you know, 0:15:39.716 --> 0:15:42.916 fingerstyle stuff. And I later, Yeah, I learned kind of 0:15:43.036 --> 0:15:46.636 certain finger picking patterns when I was kind of my 0:15:46.676 --> 0:15:48.836 early twenties, like just getting going, and then I feel 0:15:48.876 --> 0:15:51.276 like you just kind of you learn a few and 0:15:51.276 --> 0:15:53.676 then you just are off to the races with them. 0:15:53.716 --> 0:15:57.316 And that's that's kind of been where I came from. 0:15:57.356 --> 0:15:59.716 I did. I was We were saying before the interview 0:15:59.716 --> 0:16:02.716 that I recently started playing an open tuning, which I 0:16:02.756 --> 0:16:06.556 never did before. And that's it's so amazing because you honestly, 0:16:06.596 --> 0:16:09.996 like could play with just one hand, smoke a cigarette 0:16:10.036 --> 0:16:12.116 with the other hand. She sometimes do you take your 0:16:12.836 --> 0:16:14.436 the person I know it takes her hand off the 0:16:14.436 --> 0:16:17.516 fretboard sometimes. Yeah, yeah, it's liberating. Yeah, you see that 0:16:17.556 --> 0:16:20.036 with pianist they'll lift one hand off. I've never seen 0:16:20.076 --> 0:16:23.196 somebody just let the guitar go for uh huh did 0:16:23.316 --> 0:16:25.796 go into open tuning? Did that change the way you wrote? 0:16:26.316 --> 0:16:29.276 So I started to play open tuning in the context 0:16:29.276 --> 0:16:31.516 of this folk rock band, a man called Bonny Light Horseman, 0:16:32.116 --> 0:16:34.956 which was really like when I was in the kind 0:16:34.956 --> 0:16:37.596 of most intense part of rewriting Haiti Sound, because I 0:16:37.596 --> 0:16:40.516 worked on that show for on and off for thirteen years, 0:16:40.956 --> 0:16:43.316 and then as we were sort of it became clear 0:16:43.396 --> 0:16:45.516 that we were heading for Broadway, it became, you know, 0:16:45.676 --> 0:16:50.036 it was my sole focus and no regrets coyote, Like, 0:16:50.076 --> 0:16:52.876 I loved working on it, but I also was like 0:16:52.956 --> 0:16:56.236 completely overwhelmed by the stress of it. And I found 0:16:56.316 --> 0:16:58.356 that Bonny Light Horseman was kind of like the one 0:16:58.436 --> 0:17:01.236 other creative thing I could do at the same time 0:17:01.636 --> 0:17:04.396 as working on this show, and it ended up being 0:17:04.396 --> 0:17:07.476 the kind of antidote or like medicine for me that 0:17:07.556 --> 0:17:11.716 I needed, which was early on. Our first record is 0:17:11.716 --> 0:17:15.756 all kind of re workings of traditional texts, and so 0:17:15.796 --> 0:17:18.356 there was something really nice about like being able to 0:17:18.436 --> 0:17:22.076 draw from that well and like rest in that music 0:17:22.436 --> 0:17:25.676 rather than the act of writing. Town is very text 0:17:25.756 --> 0:17:28.036 focused and having to come up with a lot of stuff, 0:17:28.196 --> 0:17:31.436 and so there was that. And then also just from 0:17:31.436 --> 0:17:35.156 the get go, we played open D tuning and it's 0:17:35.196 --> 0:17:38.516 just so wide open. It feels so epic and like 0:17:38.636 --> 0:17:42.196 expansive and spacious, like you just want to let the 0:17:42.276 --> 0:17:44.916 chord ring out, put your hand in the air. So 0:17:45.036 --> 0:17:49.316 that became the kind of the antidote to Haities sound 0:17:49.356 --> 0:17:51.916 for me. And then I remember like at times I'd 0:17:51.956 --> 0:17:53.716 finished playing with Bonnie Light and I'd have to tune 0:17:53.716 --> 0:17:56.676 back up to standard tuning, and I'd feel like I 0:17:56.716 --> 0:17:59.316 was putting on a corset to go back to standard. 0:17:59.636 --> 0:18:01.556 Standard is also great. At this point, I'm ready to 0:18:01.556 --> 0:18:03.956 go back, but it's yeah, it's been a revelation to 0:18:03.996 --> 0:18:06.236 play open You know, you use a lot of color 0:18:06.276 --> 0:18:09.876 tones in your melodies, use a lot of ninths, You're 0:18:09.876 --> 0:18:12.556 not just sticking to chord tones, and I was kind 0:18:12.556 --> 0:18:15.356 of wondering whether the open tuning sort of facilitated that. Yeah, 0:18:15.356 --> 0:18:17.716 I think you're right. I mean, it's that kind of 0:18:18.596 --> 0:18:24.276 I associate it with like British Isles folk music and 0:18:24.396 --> 0:18:28.556 the kind of ornamentation that you hear with like Irish singers, 0:18:28.876 --> 0:18:30.556 the way that they're grace notes and the way they 0:18:30.596 --> 0:18:34.676 bend things, And I just find it really infinitely fascinating 0:18:34.676 --> 0:18:38.756 how you can just have one drone chord almost and 0:18:38.796 --> 0:18:42.396 then the just infinite number of notes you could sing 0:18:42.596 --> 0:18:46.716 over it and they'd be compelling in different ways. It's 0:18:46.756 --> 0:18:52.476 sort of like very simple and also sophisticated. I feel 0:18:52.516 --> 0:18:56.676 that about Irish music. We'll be right back with more 0:18:56.716 --> 0:18:59.996 from Bruce Headlam and a Nias Mitchell. After a quick break, 0:19:04.916 --> 0:19:08.316 we're back with more of Bruce's conversation with a Naias Mitchell. 0:19:09.356 --> 0:19:12.076 So you mentioned Hadestown and we do have to talk 0:19:12.116 --> 0:19:16.076 about it great. You're like, yeah, I only worked on 0:19:16.156 --> 0:19:20.396 for fourteen years. Where did the idea come from? It 0:19:20.476 --> 0:19:23.116 kind of came out of nowhere, but it was right. 0:19:23.596 --> 0:19:26.716 I was driving in my car kind of early on 0:19:26.796 --> 0:19:30.196 in my career as a as a singer songwriter, driving 0:19:30.196 --> 0:19:33.716 like a super long distance between two gigs for like tips, 0:19:34.636 --> 0:19:38.316 and I got this just melody kind of dropped into 0:19:38.356 --> 0:19:41.156 my lap, which was the chorus of that song wait 0:19:41.236 --> 0:19:44.156 for Me from the show, and there was lyrics that 0:19:44.196 --> 0:19:47.196 came with it. It went way for me, I'm come 0:19:47.276 --> 0:19:51.436 in in my garters and pearls with what melody? Did 0:19:51.516 --> 0:19:55.196 you borrow me? From The Wicked Underworld? And that was 0:19:55.236 --> 0:19:57.276 the lyrics that came with it, that just came to 0:19:57.276 --> 0:19:59.076 you in a car. It came in the car. Yeah, Now, 0:19:59.116 --> 0:20:01.356 did you pull over and write it down or you 0:20:01.836 --> 0:20:03.276 don't know what I would have done. That might have 0:20:03.276 --> 0:20:05.236 been pre iPhone. I don't think I could have recorded 0:20:05.236 --> 0:20:08.196 it on my phone. But there was something about it 0:20:08.276 --> 0:20:10.916 that the la which obviously none of those lines ended 0:20:10.996 --> 0:20:13.276 up in the show except for the first one, but 0:20:13.396 --> 0:20:17.356 the underworld and the kind of it felt like there 0:20:17.436 --> 0:20:20.236 to see an ortheis story, and I thought, I think 0:20:20.276 --> 0:20:22.996 I was hungry to work on a long form thing, 0:20:23.676 --> 0:20:25.836 just like to see what could happen. I've always been 0:20:25.836 --> 0:20:28.716 into storytelling as a songwriter. I love like the ballads 0:20:28.756 --> 0:20:31.316 the British Isles, like really long ballads, and I like 0:20:31.436 --> 0:20:36.636 the Texas like Raconteur, you know Texas songwriter things very 0:20:36.636 --> 0:20:40.076 like short story within a song, and just the idea 0:20:40.236 --> 0:20:42.756 of writing a bunch of songs that had to lean 0:20:42.796 --> 0:20:44.316 on each other and that you had to hear them 0:20:44.316 --> 0:20:47.636 all in order to get the full story. I also 0:20:47.836 --> 0:20:52.076 was like I was right out of college, and I think, 0:20:52.196 --> 0:20:54.596 you know, I was a kind of young and idealistic 0:20:54.716 --> 0:21:00.436 and naive and creative coming into a world where, you know, 0:21:00.516 --> 0:21:02.676 just coming up against the way the world is, you know, 0:21:02.796 --> 0:21:06.316 politically at that time, and also and now you have 0:21:06.356 --> 0:21:09.756 to pay the rent and things like that. And there 0:21:09.836 --> 0:21:14.036 was something about that coming of age or that story 0:21:14.116 --> 0:21:17.716 that felt inherent to the Orpheus myth. You know, he's 0:21:17.796 --> 0:21:22.356 this optimistic character who believes he can do an impossible 0:21:22.396 --> 0:21:25.036 thing and then he comes up against you know, the 0:21:25.076 --> 0:21:27.436 way the world is. And so there is a way 0:21:27.436 --> 0:21:31.996 in which like that story was a catch off for 0:21:32.116 --> 0:21:34.076 like a lot of things that I was going through 0:21:34.116 --> 0:21:36.756 at that time. Did you see a film like did 0:21:36.796 --> 0:21:39.516 you see Black Orpheus or something? What made you think 0:21:39.516 --> 0:21:42.956 of the Orpheus? Yeah? I always had known that myth. 0:21:42.996 --> 0:21:45.796 I remember I read it in a children's illustrated book 0:21:45.996 --> 0:21:49.676 of mythology, the Dolarus book. My son has them all, Yes, 0:21:49.756 --> 0:21:54.076 I got them from my kids too. Yeah, there's an illustration. 0:21:54.236 --> 0:21:57.516 And the story is just so beautiful and strange that 0:21:57.596 --> 0:21:59.716 it doesn't have a happy ending you expect it. It's 0:21:59.716 --> 0:22:01.996 all set up for a Hollywood ending. You don't get it. 0:22:02.156 --> 0:22:07.636 And the hero is a musician, an artist. And then 0:22:07.676 --> 0:22:10.596 I did because I was curious. Yes I did. I 0:22:10.796 --> 0:22:15.396 watched Black Orpheus, and there's a Cocteau film laur Fee. 0:22:15.836 --> 0:22:21.516 There's the Tennessee Williams play there. There's a French version 0:22:21.556 --> 0:22:25.836 that I think was translated. Maybe Richard Burton was in it. 0:22:25.956 --> 0:22:28.596 Oh cool. Yeah, a lot of people have been inspired 0:22:28.636 --> 0:22:31.196 by it. You know, Oh, Sarah Rule. There's an amazing 0:22:31.236 --> 0:22:34.156 play by Sarah Rule called Eurice. I think it's a 0:22:34.196 --> 0:22:41.076 myth that's just contained so much raw like potential energy 0:22:41.476 --> 0:22:45.036 in it that it kept the wind in our sails, 0:22:45.036 --> 0:22:46.756 you know, mine and everyone else who worked on it 0:22:46.796 --> 0:22:50.836 for so long, and it always felt like as much 0:22:50.956 --> 0:22:55.516 effort as we all were putting in elbow grease like creatively, 0:22:55.636 --> 0:22:57.596 it also was as if we were unearthing a thing 0:22:57.636 --> 0:23:00.556 that already existed. Like I thought a lot of times 0:23:00.556 --> 0:23:04.036 about that idea of the sculpture in the stone. You 0:23:04.076 --> 0:23:06.356 know that the sculpture is already there, Yeah, and he 0:23:06.516 --> 0:23:09.796 just chipping away at it, and then it occasionally you'd 0:23:09.836 --> 0:23:13.956 be like, oh that you know this, that orchestration choice, 0:23:14.156 --> 0:23:19.596 that choreography thing, that costume piece, like this set piece 0:23:20.236 --> 0:23:22.036 that like, that's the sculpture in the stone, Like you 0:23:22.156 --> 0:23:24.636 sort of would feel it. I think we all would 0:23:24.676 --> 0:23:27.196 probably feel the same way about it that it revealed 0:23:27.236 --> 0:23:29.916 itself to us. Now. At that point, you were a 0:23:29.996 --> 0:23:34.356