1 00:00:15,436 --> 00:00:24,236 Speaker 1: Pushkin. Today we're hearing from singer, songwriter and playwright Annaeus Mitchell. 2 00:00:25,356 --> 00:00:28,836 Speaker 1: Annaus Mitchell spent the past sixteen years building the world 3 00:00:28,956 --> 00:00:34,556 Speaker 1: of Hadestown, a career defining stage musical. Hadestown is a 4 00:00:34,596 --> 00:00:39,716 Speaker 1: Depression era retelling of the Greek myth of Orpheus, euridice, Hades, 5 00:00:39,916 --> 00:00:43,156 Speaker 1: and Persephone. It has grown from a low budget community 6 00:00:43,196 --> 00:00:46,476 Speaker 1: production in her native Vermont to a concept album to 7 00:00:46,596 --> 00:00:50,836 Speaker 1: a Broadway phenomenon in the winner of eight Tony Awards, 8 00:00:50,876 --> 00:00:55,436 Speaker 1: including Best Musical and Best Original Score. But in March 9 00:00:55,476 --> 00:00:59,156 Speaker 1: twenty twenty, when the COVID nineteen pandemic shuttered theaters, Annaeus, 10 00:00:59,276 --> 00:01:02,716 Speaker 1: like so many others, moved back home to Vermont. She 11 00:01:02,876 --> 00:01:06,276 Speaker 1: was nine months pregnant with her second child. The move 12 00:01:06,356 --> 00:01:09,156 Speaker 1: and change of pace inspired her to start writing in 13 00:01:09,236 --> 00:01:12,956 Speaker 1: d folk songs. Her self titled album, released at the 14 00:01:12,996 --> 00:01:16,036 Speaker 1: beginning of twenty twenty two, is made up of those songs. 15 00:01:16,676 --> 00:01:19,716 Speaker 1: It's produced by Josh Kaufman and was made with collaborators 16 00:01:19,716 --> 00:01:23,556 Speaker 1: like Boni Vair, The National, and her own band, Bonnie 17 00:01:23,636 --> 00:01:26,996 Speaker 1: Light Horseman. The project is a Nais's first collection of 18 00:01:26,996 --> 00:01:30,196 Speaker 1: all new material under her own name in ten years. 19 00:01:30,996 --> 00:01:34,036 Speaker 1: On today's episode, Bruce Hedlum speaks with a Naias Mitchell 20 00:01:34,196 --> 00:01:36,796 Speaker 1: about her new album. Her experience is growing up in 21 00:01:36,836 --> 00:01:39,796 Speaker 1: a small town and how Hades Town came to be. 22 00:01:40,476 --> 00:01:42,996 Speaker 1: She also played some songs off her new album live 23 00:01:43,396 --> 00:01:49,276 Speaker 1: for us. This is broken record liner notes for the 24 00:01:49,316 --> 00:01:53,436 Speaker 1: digital age. I'm justin Mitchell. Before we get into the conversation, 25 00:01:53,676 --> 00:01:56,956 Speaker 1: here's a Nus Mitchell's live performance of her song bright 26 00:01:56,996 --> 00:02:22,356 Speaker 1: Star off her new album Bright Star. When I first 27 00:02:22,436 --> 00:02:25,156 Speaker 1: laid eyes upon you, I was filled with such a 28 00:02:25,236 --> 00:02:28,996 Speaker 1: longing to be with you in the dark, bright Star. 29 00:02:31,076 --> 00:02:34,236 Speaker 1: Since I could not fly beside you, I would shine 30 00:02:34,316 --> 00:02:38,316 Speaker 1: my own course by you, and I sailed by your light. 31 00:02:46,876 --> 00:02:51,636 Speaker 1: Break Star. I have sailed in all directions. I have 32 00:02:51,756 --> 00:02:56,636 Speaker 1: followed your reflection to the farthest foreign short bread Star, 33 00:02:57,156 --> 00:03:00,756 Speaker 1: Bright Star. I have anchored in the harbor. I have 34 00:03:00,876 --> 00:03:05,396 Speaker 1: brought my gifts to barter board drifters, bedding board, bread Star. 35 00:03:07,516 --> 00:03:10,636 Speaker 1: I have drunk the wine of age in the company 36 00:03:10,676 --> 00:03:14,476 Speaker 1: of strangers. We have sung in tongues of angels, and 37 00:03:14,596 --> 00:03:18,196 Speaker 1: then stumbled on the pavement. And I understood my place 38 00:03:18,996 --> 00:03:23,476 Speaker 1: and my purpose in relation to the young and ancient knights. 39 00:03:41,836 --> 00:03:46,476 Speaker 1: Bright Star, I am home now from my roaming. I'm 40 00:03:46,516 --> 00:03:49,516 Speaker 1: a lowe ni in the blooming with a ship's sod 41 00:03:49,596 --> 00:03:54,916 Speaker 1: in the yard, Bright Star, there's a thought upon me, dawning. 42 00:03:55,636 --> 00:03:59,476 Speaker 1: You've launched a thousand longings, and I don't know who 43 00:03:59,556 --> 00:04:05,756 Speaker 1: you are, right Star. You have never been my vessel 44 00:04:06,556 --> 00:04:09,636 Speaker 1: or the wind my sails are wrestling, or lands to 45 00:04:09,756 --> 00:04:13,116 Speaker 1: a check travel or the friends with you my revel. 46 00:04:13,636 --> 00:04:16,236 Speaker 1: There are lengths to it you'll never know. I went 47 00:04:16,756 --> 00:04:20,236 Speaker 1: to be your lover and you love it and your sight, 48 00:04:29,476 --> 00:04:34,116 Speaker 1: Bright Star. When I first laid eyes upon you, I 49 00:04:34,236 --> 00:04:37,076 Speaker 1: was filled with such a longing to be with you 50 00:04:37,156 --> 00:04:42,316 Speaker 1: in the dark, Bright Star. If I could have flown 51 00:04:42,396 --> 00:04:45,236 Speaker 1: beside you, I would not have had the sight of 52 00:04:45,316 --> 00:04:50,116 Speaker 1: you to guide me through the world. So why and 53 00:04:50,316 --> 00:05:00,556 Speaker 1: bright So your self titled album? Why are self titled 54 00:05:00,596 --> 00:05:02,916 Speaker 1: albums always late in people's careers? Now? I don't know. 55 00:05:03,516 --> 00:05:06,156 Speaker 1: Tell me about making this album, right, It's funny to 56 00:05:06,236 --> 00:05:08,836 Speaker 1: make a self titled record at this stage, but for me, 57 00:05:08,876 --> 00:05:12,636 Speaker 1: if really appropriate, Like, I started out as a singer songwriter, 58 00:05:12,716 --> 00:05:14,676 Speaker 1: and I you know, made a bunch of records when 59 00:05:14,676 --> 00:05:17,396 Speaker 1: I was sort of in my twenties, and then I 60 00:05:17,436 --> 00:05:20,636 Speaker 1: started working on this musical Hades Town in my mid twenties, 61 00:05:20,676 --> 00:05:24,476 Speaker 1: and it just sort of took over my creative world. 62 00:05:24,596 --> 00:05:27,636 Speaker 1: And so it had been a long time since I 63 00:05:27,676 --> 00:05:29,636 Speaker 1: had actually been able to sit down with my guitar 64 00:05:29,676 --> 00:05:32,436 Speaker 1: and write kind of what wanted to pass through my heart, 65 00:05:32,596 --> 00:05:35,556 Speaker 1: regardless of you know, plot and character development and all 66 00:05:35,596 --> 00:05:38,156 Speaker 1: that stuff. And so it felt like a return in 67 00:05:38,196 --> 00:05:42,116 Speaker 1: a way. And also, the songs on this record are 68 00:05:42,156 --> 00:05:45,796 Speaker 1: all actually my own. I'm the speaker in all the 69 00:05:45,836 --> 00:05:49,276 Speaker 1: songs is me, and the stories are my stories, which 70 00:05:49,756 --> 00:05:51,876 Speaker 1: I kind of had never let myself do, Like I 71 00:05:51,916 --> 00:05:55,356 Speaker 1: always wanted to take on the voices of other characters 72 00:05:55,436 --> 00:05:59,316 Speaker 1: and kind of tell other stories. It's a confessional, you know, 73 00:05:59,436 --> 00:06:02,196 Speaker 1: confessional record, and so it felt right to put my 74 00:06:02,276 --> 00:06:06,276 Speaker 1: name on it. You know, that's funny because I would 75 00:06:06,276 --> 00:06:09,516 Speaker 1: have assumed that your early things were confessional too, And 76 00:06:09,636 --> 00:06:12,796 Speaker 1: maybe that's just the unfair cliche about women songwriters that 77 00:06:12,836 --> 00:06:15,956 Speaker 1: they're always just, you know, men are creating characters, women 78 00:06:15,956 --> 00:06:18,516 Speaker 1: are just pouring out their hearts. Well, but your early 79 00:06:18,516 --> 00:06:20,596 Speaker 1: songs were like that, that you were taking on character. 80 00:06:20,676 --> 00:06:23,636 Speaker 1: I mean, there was a few heart poorer songs, but 81 00:06:23,876 --> 00:06:26,036 Speaker 1: from early on I really was kind of interested in 82 00:06:26,116 --> 00:06:29,156 Speaker 1: dressing that stuff up in different ways. But you know, 83 00:06:29,316 --> 00:06:32,316 Speaker 1: my very first record was like quite political. Actually, it 84 00:06:32,356 --> 00:06:36,356 Speaker 1: was influenced by like protest music and early early Bob 85 00:06:36,436 --> 00:06:39,116 Speaker 1: Dylan and stuff like that. And I made a record 86 00:06:39,276 --> 00:06:43,316 Speaker 1: later called young Man in America, which was, yeah, really 87 00:06:43,356 --> 00:06:45,556 Speaker 1: taking out a lot of the voices of other characters, 88 00:06:45,876 --> 00:06:48,116 Speaker 1: and a lot of me was in there. A lot 89 00:06:48,156 --> 00:06:50,436 Speaker 1: of my feelings were in there, but I didn't have 90 00:06:50,516 --> 00:06:52,596 Speaker 1: to stand there and sing it as if it was 91 00:06:52,636 --> 00:06:55,316 Speaker 1: my own story. And I think I was maybe a 92 00:06:55,316 --> 00:07:00,196 Speaker 1: little nervous to do a confessional sounding thing. I was 93 00:07:00,236 --> 00:07:02,996 Speaker 1: afraid to be navel gazy in a way that I 94 00:07:03,076 --> 00:07:06,396 Speaker 1: may be perceived in the nineteen nineties, like Coffeehouse World. 95 00:07:06,836 --> 00:07:09,716 Speaker 1: I wanted to do something different than that. What is 96 00:07:09,756 --> 00:07:12,356 Speaker 1: it like now to get up on stage and confess 97 00:07:12,396 --> 00:07:16,796 Speaker 1: your inner thoughts to an audience? Well, everything is different now, 98 00:07:17,076 --> 00:07:19,076 Speaker 1: you know. I think so many of us are just 99 00:07:19,076 --> 00:07:22,156 Speaker 1: trying to figure out who we are and what is 100 00:07:22,196 --> 00:07:25,716 Speaker 1: this what we do post pandemic and also for me 101 00:07:25,796 --> 00:07:28,796 Speaker 1: post Haiti's sound, because that became my identity for so long, 102 00:07:29,356 --> 00:07:31,276 Speaker 1: and so to actually get up and play my own 103 00:07:31,276 --> 00:07:34,636 Speaker 1: songs and it feels familiar and also totally different. But 104 00:07:35,036 --> 00:07:39,236 Speaker 1: I love what can happen with just kind of vulnerability 105 00:07:39,716 --> 00:07:44,116 Speaker 1: of connecting with an audience. So there's something about opening 106 00:07:44,156 --> 00:07:47,516 Speaker 1: your mouth really wide to sing that feels vulnerable in 107 00:07:47,556 --> 00:07:49,916 Speaker 1: its own right, but then to also be trying to 108 00:07:49,956 --> 00:07:53,316 Speaker 1: just kind of be as hard on sleeve as possible. 109 00:07:53,756 --> 00:07:56,356 Speaker 1: That felt like the project for this batch of songs. 110 00:07:56,796 --> 00:07:58,996 Speaker 1: Are there times you have trouble doing that on stage? 111 00:07:59,756 --> 00:08:05,396 Speaker 1: There's times when it doesn't feel real, Like if it 112 00:08:05,436 --> 00:08:10,236 Speaker 1: doesn't feel authentic, then it especially feels like a problem 113 00:08:10,316 --> 00:08:12,956 Speaker 1: because the songs are so from the heart, do you 114 00:08:12,996 --> 00:08:14,996 Speaker 1: know to mean? Like, if I'm playing a Haities sound 115 00:08:15,156 --> 00:08:19,436 Speaker 1: song and I'm not one hundred percent feeling it, it's okay. 116 00:08:19,956 --> 00:08:22,476 Speaker 1: But if it's you know, a heart poem and I'm 117 00:08:22,636 --> 00:08:25,236 Speaker 1: sort of out to lunch, that doesn't feel right. But 118 00:08:25,276 --> 00:08:28,556 Speaker 1: I wouldn't say that it's scary in terms of like 119 00:08:28,756 --> 00:08:32,036 Speaker 1: to share the feelings. I love to do that. When 120 00:08:32,076 --> 00:08:34,316 Speaker 1: I sat down to listen to the record, the first 121 00:08:34,316 --> 00:08:36,196 Speaker 1: song is Brooklyn Bridge, and I think, oh, this is 122 00:08:36,236 --> 00:08:39,076 Speaker 1: going to be because you were out of New York 123 00:08:39,116 --> 00:08:40,796 Speaker 1: for the pandemic, I thought, Oh, this is just going 124 00:08:40,836 --> 00:08:42,476 Speaker 1: to be a New York record I'm missing it. I'm 125 00:08:42,476 --> 00:08:44,796 Speaker 1: missing it. It's not but the first song is this 126 00:08:44,956 --> 00:08:47,916 Speaker 1: very romantic song about being in New York. Did you 127 00:08:47,956 --> 00:08:52,436 Speaker 1: miss it? Yeah? I totally missed it, so right. The 128 00:08:52,436 --> 00:08:55,116 Speaker 1: backstory is I was right about to have our second 129 00:08:55,196 --> 00:08:59,036 Speaker 1: baby in March of twenty twenty and made a really 130 00:08:59,116 --> 00:09:02,596 Speaker 1: like eleventh hour decision to pack a car and drive 131 00:09:02,636 --> 00:09:04,916 Speaker 1: to Vermont, which is where I was born and raise 132 00:09:05,156 --> 00:09:08,676 Speaker 1: and that sort of time of stillness. Up there, I 133 00:09:08,716 --> 00:09:11,836 Speaker 1: wrote a bunch of songs, and Brooklyn Bridge is actually 134 00:09:11,876 --> 00:09:13,956 Speaker 1: when that I had I had tried to write when 135 00:09:13,996 --> 00:09:16,516 Speaker 1: I was living in New York. I had the idea, 136 00:09:16,596 --> 00:09:18,996 Speaker 1: and I almost like I wouldn't let myself write it. 137 00:09:18,996 --> 00:09:23,516 Speaker 1: It felt like overly romantic, and even like the word 138 00:09:23,556 --> 00:09:26,956 Speaker 1: Brooklyn I didn't want to use. And then finally when 139 00:09:27,036 --> 00:09:29,356 Speaker 1: I left the city, I just kind of let myself 140 00:09:29,516 --> 00:09:32,356 Speaker 1: feel the feelings of romance that I always have felt 141 00:09:32,396 --> 00:09:35,716 Speaker 1: about this town. I was commuting to Manhattan a lot 142 00:09:35,756 --> 00:09:38,076 Speaker 1: from Brooklyn when I was working on Haiti Stone, and 143 00:09:38,556 --> 00:09:41,476 Speaker 1: there are some really special rides that I had with 144 00:09:41,676 --> 00:09:45,396 Speaker 1: Rachel Chapkin, the director of the show. Sometimes, like after 145 00:09:45,436 --> 00:09:47,396 Speaker 1: a really long day and a long night of like 146 00:09:47,476 --> 00:09:49,636 Speaker 1: tech and rehearsal, and then a meeting at the bar 147 00:09:49,756 --> 00:09:52,076 Speaker 1: about the show, and then we'd be in a cabin 148 00:09:52,396 --> 00:09:54,596 Speaker 1: riding over the bridge back to Brooklyn and kind of 149 00:09:55,156 --> 00:09:57,756 Speaker 1: all of our hopes and dreams for the show, and 150 00:09:57,796 --> 00:10:00,036 Speaker 1: some of that is in that song. So tell me 151 00:10:00,076 --> 00:10:03,916 Speaker 1: now about Bright Star. So I had landed in Vermont, 152 00:10:03,996 --> 00:10:07,236 Speaker 1: had the baby one week after we got there, and 153 00:10:07,276 --> 00:10:10,756 Speaker 1: then literally I could see the star again. I moved 154 00:10:10,756 --> 00:10:14,396 Speaker 1: back to this family land, which is a sheep farm 155 00:10:14,436 --> 00:10:16,876 Speaker 1: that my parents bought and like the seventies, and my 156 00:10:16,916 --> 00:10:19,196 Speaker 1: parents have a house there. My brother's family as a house, 157 00:10:19,236 --> 00:10:21,396 Speaker 1: and when my grandparents were alive, they had a little 158 00:10:21,436 --> 00:10:24,196 Speaker 1: house on this same land, and that's where we moved to. 159 00:10:24,676 --> 00:10:27,716 Speaker 1: And the stars are just thick up there, and so 160 00:10:28,476 --> 00:10:30,756 Speaker 1: I was seeing that, and also I think, you know, 161 00:10:30,916 --> 00:10:34,156 Speaker 1: we were all in that just strange time of stillness 162 00:10:34,276 --> 00:10:37,356 Speaker 1: after so much activity, and it was really the first 163 00:10:37,356 --> 00:10:39,676 Speaker 1: time I'd stayed in one place for as long as 164 00:10:39,716 --> 00:10:42,756 Speaker 1: I could remember, the gaining of like a little bit 165 00:10:42,756 --> 00:10:48,196 Speaker 1: of perspective on all of that restless pursuit of whatever 166 00:10:48,236 --> 00:10:51,716 Speaker 1: it is, you know, whatever it is you're chasing, and 167 00:10:51,916 --> 00:10:56,116 Speaker 1: kind of a feeling of making peace with it. That 168 00:10:56,276 --> 00:11:00,116 Speaker 1: to me is what that song's about. Was it strange 169 00:11:00,276 --> 00:11:03,196 Speaker 1: living with your parents again, or living around your parents 170 00:11:03,196 --> 00:11:06,996 Speaker 1: and your family? It was amazing, really, Yeah, it was amazing, 171 00:11:07,076 --> 00:11:10,516 Speaker 1: especially having a little newborn to just be in the 172 00:11:10,876 --> 00:11:13,876 Speaker 1: family kind of fold. And because everyone was locked down 173 00:11:13,876 --> 00:11:15,756 Speaker 1: and quarantined at that time, and we had a whole 174 00:11:15,796 --> 00:11:18,076 Speaker 1: farm full of people. You know, one person could go 175 00:11:18,116 --> 00:11:21,556 Speaker 1: shopping for us all and we'd have like dinners together, 176 00:11:21,676 --> 00:11:23,596 Speaker 1: and you know, I mean the other side of the 177 00:11:23,676 --> 00:11:26,516 Speaker 1: stories that we've ended up staying in Vermont, like we 178 00:11:26,556 --> 00:11:29,116 Speaker 1: haven't moved back to New York. And then you know, 179 00:11:29,316 --> 00:11:32,676 Speaker 1: it became Okay, I'm going to be in proximity with 180 00:11:32,716 --> 00:11:37,036 Speaker 1: my parents, my brother, my old friends, my like ninth 181 00:11:37,036 --> 00:11:38,796 Speaker 1: grade English teachers. I'm going to run into on the 182 00:11:38,796 --> 00:11:41,036 Speaker 1: street because in this small town where I grew up, 183 00:11:41,076 --> 00:11:43,356 Speaker 1: and that had you know, all kinds of feelings that 184 00:11:43,396 --> 00:11:46,876 Speaker 1: came with that, Like I was a little scared to 185 00:11:47,076 --> 00:11:51,116 Speaker 1: confront that stuff. But it's been pretty special and like 186 00:11:51,636 --> 00:11:55,316 Speaker 1: healing in a way to like re establish myself in 187 00:11:55,356 --> 00:11:57,636 Speaker 1: that community, Like I'll here I am now at this 188 00:11:57,716 --> 00:12:00,556 Speaker 1: point in my life. Well, because you've got great songs 189 00:12:00,556 --> 00:12:03,636 Speaker 1: about growing up there, but almost from this from this 190 00:12:03,716 --> 00:12:08,756 Speaker 1: adult perspective, back Roads and a Little Big Girl. Yeah, 191 00:12:08,836 --> 00:12:11,196 Speaker 1: there there's a lot on this record that was inspired 192 00:12:11,236 --> 00:12:14,756 Speaker 1: by returning to my home place and having a lot 193 00:12:14,796 --> 00:12:17,676 Speaker 1: of memories about growing up there and also seeing it 194 00:12:17,716 --> 00:12:19,596 Speaker 1: with the new eyes. I think that is the thing, 195 00:12:20,356 --> 00:12:23,076 Speaker 1: especially like it's a super small town, but I didn't 196 00:12:23,076 --> 00:12:25,676 Speaker 1: know that growing up. You know, how big is it? Um, 197 00:12:25,796 --> 00:12:30,716 Speaker 1: that's a question I never know my answer, Like populations, demographics, 198 00:12:30,756 --> 00:12:32,676 Speaker 1: I don't know. But but the town I went to 199 00:12:32,756 --> 00:12:36,276 Speaker 1: high school in essentially there's one main street, there's a 200 00:12:36,476 --> 00:12:40,956 Speaker 1: there's a pizza shop, there's like a coffee shop, there's 201 00:12:41,036 --> 00:12:45,956 Speaker 1: a bar, and that's pretty much it. What was growing 202 00:12:46,036 --> 00:12:47,956 Speaker 1: up there? Like what was it like in your home? 203 00:12:48,036 --> 00:12:49,836 Speaker 1: Is there a lot of music in your house? So 204 00:12:49,916 --> 00:12:53,996 Speaker 1: my parents are not musicians, but my dad can carry 205 00:12:53,996 --> 00:12:58,156 Speaker 1: a tune. My mom can't. And my dad was and 206 00:12:58,396 --> 00:13:01,316 Speaker 1: is a writer. He wrote novels when he was young, 207 00:13:01,396 --> 00:13:04,956 Speaker 1: and then more kind of nonfiction stuff when he was older, 208 00:13:04,956 --> 00:13:08,116 Speaker 1: and he became an English professor at Middlebury College, which 209 00:13:08,156 --> 00:13:10,236 Speaker 1: is right near where I would grew up. And he 210 00:13:10,316 --> 00:13:14,156 Speaker 1: also loves music and had a great record collection, and 211 00:13:14,316 --> 00:13:16,796 Speaker 1: it lived kind of in the library with the books, 212 00:13:16,836 --> 00:13:20,916 Speaker 1: and he loves lyrics. He would sing along to stuff 213 00:13:20,956 --> 00:13:22,716 Speaker 1: and he would know every word. And this is kind 214 00:13:22,756 --> 00:13:24,956 Speaker 1: of a special thing for me to witness as a kid. 215 00:13:25,396 --> 00:13:27,396 Speaker 1: So certainly, like I grew up in a house with 216 00:13:27,436 --> 00:13:30,596 Speaker 1: a love of words, and I wanted to be a 217 00:13:30,596 --> 00:13:32,236 Speaker 1: writer of some kind. And then it turned out like 218 00:13:32,276 --> 00:13:35,276 Speaker 1: my way was to write songs. What was his record 219 00:13:35,316 --> 00:13:38,196 Speaker 1: collection folk revival stuff, so it was Bob Dylan and 220 00:13:38,276 --> 00:13:41,556 Speaker 1: Leonard Cohen and Joni Mitchell and then some kind of 221 00:13:41,756 --> 00:13:44,916 Speaker 1: psychedelic rock like the Grateful Dead records and what are 222 00:13:44,956 --> 00:13:49,276 Speaker 1: they called Love It Underground. Yeah, you don't want to 223 00:13:49,316 --> 00:13:52,276 Speaker 1: forget that. Yeah, no, No, in New York they're not 224 00:13:52,276 --> 00:13:55,436 Speaker 1: going to let you back in more. Sure you're gonna 225 00:13:55,436 --> 00:13:57,236 Speaker 1: have to leave. Yeah. I mean it's all if you 226 00:13:57,236 --> 00:14:00,796 Speaker 1: think about it's all very lyrically interesting stuff that he 227 00:14:00,836 --> 00:14:04,156 Speaker 1: was into. My parents were like hippies. They grew up 228 00:14:04,196 --> 00:14:07,116 Speaker 1: in the suburbs and they bought this farm as part 229 00:14:07,116 --> 00:14:09,236 Speaker 1: of the kind of back to the land movement, and 230 00:14:09,276 --> 00:14:11,916 Speaker 1: that that's where they went, was to Vermont, And I 231 00:14:11,956 --> 00:14:14,196 Speaker 1: was raised with my older brother there on this farm, 232 00:14:14,236 --> 00:14:17,916 Speaker 1: and no television. My mom was anti television, so there 233 00:14:17,996 --> 00:14:21,116 Speaker 1: was a lot of just wild running half naked in 234 00:14:21,156 --> 00:14:25,036 Speaker 1: the woods and making up games and stuff like that. 235 00:14:25,276 --> 00:14:28,196 Speaker 1: They were pro sheep anti tell yeah you got it. 236 00:14:28,916 --> 00:14:31,876 Speaker 1: When did the guitar start? Yeah? My first instrument was 237 00:14:31,916 --> 00:14:35,676 Speaker 1: a violin that I studied from age seven. I loved it, 238 00:14:35,796 --> 00:14:38,076 Speaker 1: and also I hated it and I didn't want to 239 00:14:38,116 --> 00:14:40,236 Speaker 1: practice it and things like that. When I finally let 240 00:14:40,276 --> 00:14:43,156 Speaker 1: go of that, I picked up the guitar and I 241 00:14:43,196 --> 00:14:46,396 Speaker 1: took like a few lessons, very casually from a guy 242 00:14:46,436 --> 00:14:49,596 Speaker 1: who would essentially just teach me to play the songs 243 00:14:49,636 --> 00:14:52,236 Speaker 1: I wanted to learn, which was a great motivator for 244 00:14:52,236 --> 00:14:53,996 Speaker 1: actually learning how to play the guitar. And I guess 245 00:14:54,036 --> 00:14:56,836 Speaker 1: I was maybe fifteen or sixteen. What were those songs? 246 00:14:56,996 --> 00:15:01,676 Speaker 1: Annie de Franco was a big one. Yeah, Mary Shaping Carpenter. 247 00:15:01,756 --> 00:15:04,236 Speaker 1: I mean, I was into a lot of female songwriters 248 00:15:04,236 --> 00:15:07,756 Speaker 1: that were kind of blossoming in that era. Dar Williams 249 00:15:08,156 --> 00:15:11,276 Speaker 1: was one. Tory Amos, although that's sort of piano bassed, 250 00:15:11,276 --> 00:15:14,476 Speaker 1: so I didn't really learn those. But yeah, you have 251 00:15:14,476 --> 00:15:18,076 Speaker 1: a very particular guitar playing style you Travis pick, but 252 00:15:18,116 --> 00:15:22,076 Speaker 1: it's not the kind of usual. Yeah, and Travis Pick, 253 00:15:22,116 --> 00:15:24,276 Speaker 1: where did you? How did you get that? I don't 254 00:15:24,356 --> 00:15:26,356 Speaker 1: use a pick? I really only put with my fingers, 255 00:15:26,476 --> 00:15:30,076 Speaker 1: and yeah, it's bizarre. The guy that I learned from 256 00:15:30,156 --> 00:15:34,196 Speaker 1: justin Purdue is his name was like a jazzer and 257 00:15:33,476 --> 00:15:36,396 Speaker 1: he played with his fingers and he was double jointed 258 00:15:36,436 --> 00:15:39,636 Speaker 1: in his hands and he could play these beautiful, you know, 259 00:15:39,716 --> 00:15:42,916 Speaker 1: fingerstyle stuff. And I later, Yeah, I learned kind of 260 00:15:43,036 --> 00:15:46,636 Speaker 1: certain finger picking patterns when I was kind of my 261 00:15:46,676 --> 00:15:48,836 Speaker 1: early twenties, like just getting going, and then I feel 262 00:15:48,876 --> 00:15:51,276 Speaker 1: like you just kind of you learn a few and 263 00:15:51,276 --> 00:15:53,676 Speaker 1: then you just are off to the races with them. 264 00:15:53,716 --> 00:15:57,316 Speaker 1: And that's that's kind of been where I came from. 265 00:15:57,356 --> 00:15:59,716 Speaker 1: I did. I was We were saying before the interview 266 00:15:59,716 --> 00:16:02,716 Speaker 1: that I recently started playing an open tuning, which I 267 00:16:02,756 --> 00:16:06,556 Speaker 1: never did before. And that's it's so amazing because you honestly, 268 00:16:06,596 --> 00:16:09,996 Speaker 1: like could play with just one hand, smoke a cigarette 269 00:16:10,036 --> 00:16:12,116 Speaker 1: with the other hand. She sometimes do you take your 270 00:16:12,836 --> 00:16:14,436 Speaker 1: the person I know it takes her hand off the 271 00:16:14,436 --> 00:16:17,516 Speaker 1: fretboard sometimes. Yeah, yeah, it's liberating. Yeah, you see that 272 00:16:17,556 --> 00:16:20,036 Speaker 1: with pianist they'll lift one hand off. I've never seen 273 00:16:20,076 --> 00:16:23,196 Speaker 1: somebody just let the guitar go for uh huh did 274 00:16:23,316 --> 00:16:25,796 Speaker 1: go into open tuning? Did that change the way you wrote? 275 00:16:26,316 --> 00:16:29,276 Speaker 1: So I started to play open tuning in the context 276 00:16:29,276 --> 00:16:31,516 Speaker 1: of this folk rock band, a man called Bonny Light Horseman, 277 00:16:32,116 --> 00:16:34,956 Speaker 1: which was really like when I was in the kind 278 00:16:34,956 --> 00:16:37,596 Speaker 1: of most intense part of rewriting Haiti Sound, because I 279 00:16:37,596 --> 00:16:40,516 Speaker 1: worked on that show for on and off for thirteen years, 280 00:16:40,956 --> 00:16:43,316 Speaker 1: and then as we were sort of it became clear 281 00:16:43,396 --> 00:16:45,516 Speaker 1: that we were heading for Broadway, it became, you know, 282 00:16:45,676 --> 00:16:50,036 Speaker 1: it was my sole focus and no regrets coyote, Like, 283 00:16:50,076 --> 00:16:52,876 Speaker 1: I loved working on it, but I also was like 284 00:16:52,956 --> 00:16:56,236 Speaker 1: completely overwhelmed by the stress of it. And I found 285 00:16:56,316 --> 00:16:58,356 Speaker 1: that Bonny Light Horseman was kind of like the one 286 00:16:58,436 --> 00:17:01,236 Speaker 1: other creative thing I could do at the same time 287 00:17:01,636 --> 00:17:04,396 Speaker 1: as working on this show, and it ended up being 288 00:17:04,396 --> 00:17:07,476 Speaker 1: the kind of antidote or like medicine for me that 289 00:17:07,556 --> 00:17:11,716 Speaker 1: I needed, which was early on. Our first record is 290 00:17:11,716 --> 00:17:15,756 Speaker 1: all kind of re workings of traditional texts, and so 291 00:17:15,796 --> 00:17:18,356 Speaker 1: there was something really nice about like being able to 292 00:17:18,436 --> 00:17:22,076 Speaker 1: draw from that well and like rest in that music 293 00:17:22,436 --> 00:17:25,676 Speaker 1: rather than the act of writing. Town is very text 294 00:17:25,756 --> 00:17:28,036 Speaker 1: focused and having to come up with a lot of stuff, 295 00:17:28,196 --> 00:17:31,436 Speaker 1: and so there was that. And then also just from 296 00:17:31,436 --> 00:17:35,156 Speaker 1: the get go, we played open D tuning and it's 297 00:17:35,196 --> 00:17:38,516 Speaker 1: just so wide open. It feels so epic and like 298 00:17:38,636 --> 00:17:42,196 Speaker 1: expansive and spacious, like you just want to let the 299 00:17:42,276 --> 00:17:44,916 Speaker 1: chord ring out, put your hand in the air. So 300 00:17:45,036 --> 00:17:49,316 Speaker 1: that became the kind of the antidote to Haities sound 301 00:17:49,356 --> 00:17:51,916 Speaker 1: for me. And then I remember like at times I'd 302 00:17:51,956 --> 00:17:53,716 Speaker 1: finished playing with Bonnie Light and I'd have to tune 303 00:17:53,716 --> 00:17:56,676 Speaker 1: back up to standard tuning, and I'd feel like I 304 00:17:56,716 --> 00:17:59,316 Speaker 1: was putting on a corset to go back to standard. 305 00:17:59,636 --> 00:18:01,556 Speaker 1: Standard is also great. At this point, I'm ready to 306 00:18:01,556 --> 00:18:03,956 Speaker 1: go back, but it's yeah, it's been a revelation to 307 00:18:03,996 --> 00:18:06,236 Speaker 1: play open You know, you use a lot of color 308 00:18:06,276 --> 00:18:09,876 Speaker 1: tones in your melodies, use a lot of ninths, You're 309 00:18:09,876 --> 00:18:12,556 Speaker 1: not just sticking to chord tones, and I was kind 310 00:18:12,556 --> 00:18:15,356 Speaker 1: of wondering whether the open tuning sort of facilitated that. Yeah, 311 00:18:15,356 --> 00:18:17,716 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I mean, it's that kind of 312 00:18:18,596 --> 00:18:24,276 Speaker 1: I associate it with like British Isles folk music and 313 00:18:24,396 --> 00:18:28,556 Speaker 1: the kind of ornamentation that you hear with like Irish singers, 314 00:18:28,876 --> 00:18:30,556 Speaker 1: the way that they're grace notes and the way they 315 00:18:30,596 --> 00:18:34,676 Speaker 1: bend things, And I just find it really infinitely fascinating 316 00:18:34,676 --> 00:18:38,756 Speaker 1: how you can just have one drone chord almost and 317 00:18:38,796 --> 00:18:42,396 Speaker 1: then the just infinite number of notes you could sing 318 00:18:42,596 --> 00:18:46,716 Speaker 1: over it and they'd be compelling in different ways. It's 319 00:18:46,756 --> 00:18:52,476 Speaker 1: sort of like very simple and also sophisticated. I feel 320 00:18:52,516 --> 00:18:56,676 Speaker 1: that about Irish music. We'll be right back with more 321 00:18:56,716 --> 00:18:59,996 Speaker 1: from Bruce Headlam and a Nias Mitchell. After a quick break, 322 00:19:04,916 --> 00:19:08,316 Speaker 1: we're back with more of Bruce's conversation with a Naias Mitchell. 323 00:19:09,356 --> 00:19:12,076 Speaker 1: So you mentioned Hadestown and we do have to talk 324 00:19:12,116 --> 00:19:16,076 Speaker 1: about it great. You're like, yeah, I only worked on 325 00:19:16,156 --> 00:19:20,396 Speaker 1: for fourteen years. Where did the idea come from? It 326 00:19:20,476 --> 00:19:23,116 Speaker 1: kind of came out of nowhere, but it was right. 327 00:19:23,596 --> 00:19:26,716 Speaker 1: I was driving in my car kind of early on 328 00:19:26,796 --> 00:19:30,196 Speaker 1: in my career as a as a singer songwriter, driving 329 00:19:30,196 --> 00:19:33,716 Speaker 1: like a super long distance between two gigs for like tips, 330 00:19:34,636 --> 00:19:38,316 Speaker 1: and I got this just melody kind of dropped into 331 00:19:38,356 --> 00:19:41,156 Speaker 1: my lap, which was the chorus of that song wait 332 00:19:41,236 --> 00:19:44,156 Speaker 1: for Me from the show, and there was lyrics that 333 00:19:44,196 --> 00:19:47,196 Speaker 1: came with it. It went way for me, I'm come 334 00:19:47,276 --> 00:19:51,436 Speaker 1: in in my garters and pearls with what melody? Did 335 00:19:51,516 --> 00:19:55,196 Speaker 1: you borrow me? From The Wicked Underworld? And that was 336 00:19:55,236 --> 00:19:57,276 Speaker 1: the lyrics that came with it, that just came to 337 00:19:57,276 --> 00:19:59,076 Speaker 1: you in a car. It came in the car. Yeah, Now, 338 00:19:59,116 --> 00:20:01,356 Speaker 1: did you pull over and write it down or you 339 00:20:01,836 --> 00:20:03,276 Speaker 1: don't know what I would have done. That might have 340 00:20:03,276 --> 00:20:05,236 Speaker 1: been pre iPhone. I don't think I could have recorded 341 00:20:05,236 --> 00:20:08,196 Speaker 1: it on my phone. But there was something about it 342 00:20:08,276 --> 00:20:10,916 Speaker 1: that the la which obviously none of those lines ended 343 00:20:10,996 --> 00:20:13,276 Speaker 1: up in the show except for the first one, but 344 00:20:13,396 --> 00:20:17,356 Speaker 1: the underworld and the kind of it felt like there 345 00:20:17,436 --> 00:20:20,236 Speaker 1: to see an ortheis story, and I thought, I think 346 00:20:20,276 --> 00:20:22,996 Speaker 1: I was hungry to work on a long form thing, 347 00:20:23,676 --> 00:20:25,836 Speaker 1: just like to see what could happen. I've always been 348 00:20:25,836 --> 00:20:28,716 Speaker 1: into storytelling as a songwriter. I love like the ballads 349 00:20:28,756 --> 00:20:31,316 Speaker 1: the British Isles, like really long ballads, and I like 350 00:20:31,436 --> 00:20:36,636 Speaker 1: the Texas like Raconteur, you know Texas songwriter things very 351 00:20:36,636 --> 00:20:40,076 Speaker 1: like short story within a song, and just the idea 352 00:20:40,236 --> 00:20:42,756 Speaker 1: of writing a bunch of songs that had to lean 353 00:20:42,796 --> 00:20:44,316 Speaker 1: on each other and that you had to hear them 354 00:20:44,316 --> 00:20:47,636 Speaker 1: all in order to get the full story. I also 355 00:20:47,836 --> 00:20:52,076 Speaker 1: was like I was right out of college, and I think, 356 00:20:52,196 --> 00:20:54,596 Speaker 1: you know, I was a kind of young and idealistic 357 00:20:54,716 --> 00:21:00,436 Speaker 1: and naive and creative coming into a world where, you know, 358 00:21:00,516 --> 00:21:02,676 Speaker 1: just coming up against the way the world is, you know, 359 00:21:02,796 --> 00:21:06,316 Speaker 1: politically at that time, and also and now you have 360 00:21:06,356 --> 00:21:09,756 Speaker 1: to pay the rent and things like that. And there 361 00:21:09,836 --> 00:21:14,036 Speaker 1: was something about that coming of age or that story 362 00:21:14,116 --> 00:21:17,716 Speaker 1: that felt inherent to the Orpheus myth. You know, he's 363 00:21:17,796 --> 00:21:22,356 Speaker 1: this optimistic character who believes he can do an impossible 364 00:21:22,396 --> 00:21:25,036 Speaker 1: thing and then he comes up against you know, the 365 00:21:25,076 --> 00:21:27,436 Speaker 1: way the world is. And so there is a way 366 00:21:27,436 --> 00:21:31,996 Speaker 1: in which like that story was a catch off for 367 00:21:32,116 --> 00:21:34,076 Speaker 1: like a lot of things that I was going through 368 00:21:34,116 --> 00:21:36,756 Speaker 1: at that time. Did you see a film like did 369 00:21:36,796 --> 00:21:39,516 Speaker 1: you see Black Orpheus or something? What made you think 370 00:21:39,516 --> 00:21:42,956 Speaker 1: of the Orpheus? Yeah? I always had known that myth. 371 00:21:42,996 --> 00:21:45,796 Speaker 1: I remember I read it in a children's illustrated book 372 00:21:45,996 --> 00:21:49,676 Speaker 1: of mythology, the Dolarus book. My son has them all, Yes, 373 00:21:49,756 --> 00:21:54,076 Speaker 1: I got them from my kids too. Yeah, there's an illustration. 374 00:21:54,236 --> 00:21:57,516 Speaker 1: And the story is just so beautiful and strange that 375 00:21:57,596 --> 00:21:59,716 Speaker 1: it doesn't have a happy ending you expect it. It's 376 00:21:59,716 --> 00:22:01,996 Speaker 1: all set up for a Hollywood ending. You don't get it. 377 00:22:02,156 --> 00:22:07,636 Speaker 1: And the hero is a musician, an artist. And then 378 00:22:07,676 --> 00:22:10,596 Speaker 1: I did because I was curious. Yes I did. I 379 00:22:10,796 --> 00:22:15,396 Speaker 1: watched Black Orpheus, and there's a Cocteau film laur Fee. 380 00:22:15,836 --> 00:22:21,516 Speaker 1: There's the Tennessee Williams play there. There's a French version 381 00:22:21,556 --> 00:22:25,836 Speaker 1: that I think was translated. Maybe Richard Burton was in it. 382 00:22:25,956 --> 00:22:28,596 Speaker 1: Oh cool. Yeah, a lot of people have been inspired 383 00:22:28,636 --> 00:22:31,196 Speaker 1: by it. You know, Oh, Sarah Rule. There's an amazing 384 00:22:31,236 --> 00:22:34,156 Speaker 1: play by Sarah Rule called Eurice. I think it's a 385 00:22:34,196 --> 00:22:41,076 Speaker 1: myth that's just contained so much raw like potential energy 386 00:22:41,476 --> 00:22:45,036 Speaker 1: in it that it kept the wind in our sails, 387 00:22:45,036 --> 00:22:46,756 Speaker 1: you know, mine and everyone else who worked on it 388 00:22:46,796 --> 00:22:50,836 Speaker 1: for so long, and it always felt like as much 389 00:22:50,956 --> 00:22:55,516 Speaker 1: effort as we all were putting in elbow grease like creatively, 390 00:22:55,636 --> 00:22:57,596 Speaker 1: it also was as if we were unearthing a thing 391 00:22:57,636 --> 00:23:00,556 Speaker 1: that already existed. Like I thought a lot of times 392 00:23:00,556 --> 00:23:04,036 Speaker 1: about that idea of the sculpture in the stone. You 393 00:23:04,076 --> 00:23:06,356 Speaker 1: know that the sculpture is already there, Yeah, and he 394 00:23:06,516 --> 00:23:09,796 Speaker 1: just chipping away at it, and then it occasionally you'd 395 00:23:09,836 --> 00:23:13,956 Speaker 1: be like, oh that you know this, that orchestration choice, 396 00:23:14,156 --> 00:23:19,596 Speaker 1: that choreography thing, that costume piece, like this set piece 397 00:23:20,236 --> 00:23:22,036 Speaker 1: that like, that's the sculpture in the stone, Like you 398 00:23:22,156 --> 00:23:24,636 Speaker 1: sort of would feel it. I think we all would 399 00:23:24,676 --> 00:23:27,196 Speaker 1: probably feel the same way about it that it revealed 400 00:23:27,236 --> 00:23:29,916 Speaker 1: itself to us. Now. At that point, you were a 401 00:23:29,996 --> 00:23:34,356 Speaker 1: young songwriter, and I imagine had you said to your 402 00:23:34,396 --> 00:23:37,516 Speaker 1: record label or anybody else, yeah, I want to do 403 00:23:37,556 --> 00:23:40,516 Speaker 1: a musical about orpheus, A lot of people would say, 404 00:23:40,676 --> 00:23:43,756 Speaker 1: just put out another album, just tour. Was it hard 405 00:23:43,836 --> 00:23:47,236 Speaker 1: to say to people, this is what I want to 406 00:23:47,396 --> 00:23:51,116 Speaker 1: their credit? I was. I was working with Righteous Bade 407 00:23:51,156 --> 00:23:53,556 Speaker 1: Records at the time, Annie to Franco's record label, who 408 00:23:53,596 --> 00:23:56,756 Speaker 1: put out my kind of second singer songwriter record, and 409 00:23:56,796 --> 00:24:00,316 Speaker 1: then I started working on this piece. And before we 410 00:24:00,356 --> 00:24:02,556 Speaker 1: made that record, he began in Vermont where I was living, 411 00:24:03,036 --> 00:24:07,316 Speaker 1: as is like diy community theater project. My friend Michael Chorney, 412 00:24:07,476 --> 00:24:10,756 Speaker 1: who's like the original orchestra of the piece and who 413 00:24:10,796 --> 00:24:13,396 Speaker 1: continued all the way to Broadway, was arranging the songs 414 00:24:13,436 --> 00:24:15,516 Speaker 1: for his like little band that he had at the time, 415 00:24:15,956 --> 00:24:18,436 Speaker 1: and there was an early director, Ben Machtick, and we 416 00:24:18,556 --> 00:24:21,076 Speaker 1: put up this kind of ragtag version of the thing. 417 00:24:21,716 --> 00:24:24,676 Speaker 1: It was, you know, not there's half as many songs 418 00:24:25,316 --> 00:24:27,916 Speaker 1: or maybe a quarter as compared to it's on stage now, 419 00:24:28,036 --> 00:24:30,036 Speaker 1: but there was something about it that felt really viby, 420 00:24:30,116 --> 00:24:32,236 Speaker 1: and I remember the label sent a couple of people 421 00:24:32,236 --> 00:24:34,916 Speaker 1: and they saw it and they said like, yes, we'd 422 00:24:34,956 --> 00:24:37,196 Speaker 1: love to support this, and Annie said she would sing 423 00:24:37,236 --> 00:24:41,636 Speaker 1: the role of prosephone before anyone else was on board, 424 00:24:42,036 --> 00:24:45,236 Speaker 1: so it was really they were actually very supportive. And 425 00:24:45,276 --> 00:24:48,076 Speaker 1: then it became this record with these other sort of 426 00:24:48,556 --> 00:24:51,596 Speaker 1: more famous guest singers, and those guys are an important 427 00:24:51,596 --> 00:24:53,356 Speaker 1: part of the story because I don't know that it 428 00:24:53,396 --> 00:24:55,796 Speaker 1: would have caught the ear of as many folks as 429 00:24:55,796 --> 00:24:58,676 Speaker 1: it did if they hadn't been involved. And then I 430 00:24:58,716 --> 00:25:01,196 Speaker 1: did a lot of touring around with it as just 431 00:25:01,236 --> 00:25:05,676 Speaker 1: a concert piece, and finally moved to New York City, 432 00:25:06,236 --> 00:25:10,996 Speaker 1: decided I wanted to develop it further, met the producers 433 00:25:11,036 --> 00:25:14,036 Speaker 1: and Rachel and that was almost like the halfway mark, 434 00:25:14,396 --> 00:25:17,836 Speaker 1: and then six or seven more years of development. Did 435 00:25:17,876 --> 00:25:21,676 Speaker 1: your enthusiasm ever flag for it's such a long process? 436 00:25:21,716 --> 00:25:27,276 Speaker 1: Oh yeah, yeah? Would you ever think? Am I crazy? That? Yeah? 437 00:25:27,276 --> 00:25:29,276 Speaker 1: And I thought, would I ever make another record of 438 00:25:29,316 --> 00:25:32,796 Speaker 1: my own songs? Whatever? I'd say, Like, the toughest thing 439 00:25:32,956 --> 00:25:36,076 Speaker 1: was the amount of kind of banging my head against 440 00:25:36,076 --> 00:25:39,756 Speaker 1: a wall in a small writing space in Kawana, so 441 00:25:39,956 --> 00:25:43,236 Speaker 1: I was living trying to rewrite the stuff again and again. 442 00:25:43,436 --> 00:25:47,476 Speaker 1: But when I was in the room with my collaborators 443 00:25:47,556 --> 00:25:50,916 Speaker 1: and you know, with the actors who are able to 444 00:25:50,956 --> 00:25:53,156 Speaker 1: just pull rabbits out of hats all the time and 445 00:25:53,236 --> 00:25:55,596 Speaker 1: you know, make you see the work in a different way, 446 00:25:56,276 --> 00:25:59,676 Speaker 1: that always was like really inspiring. And there is that 447 00:25:59,676 --> 00:26:03,676 Speaker 1: thing of a musical is a really collaborative form, and 448 00:26:03,716 --> 00:26:06,476 Speaker 1: you've got to show up for people, you know, show 449 00:26:06,516 --> 00:26:09,476 Speaker 1: up for the people you're working with, and vice versa. 450 00:26:10,236 --> 00:26:12,796 Speaker 1: And I was inspired by the folks I was working with. 451 00:26:12,836 --> 00:26:15,316 Speaker 1: I wanted to show up for them. What's terrifying, though, 452 00:26:15,436 --> 00:26:19,036 Speaker 1: is if this thing bombs and I don't want to 453 00:26:19,036 --> 00:26:22,276 Speaker 1: give away the ending, but it doesn't bomb, people are 454 00:26:22,276 --> 00:26:26,516 Speaker 1: out of work. And did you feel that kind of weight? No, 455 00:26:26,916 --> 00:26:31,116 Speaker 1: I don't think so. I just was fixated on I 456 00:26:31,156 --> 00:26:32,836 Speaker 1: wanted it to be as good as it could be 457 00:26:33,716 --> 00:26:36,836 Speaker 1: when it got to Broadway, And the fact we got 458 00:26:36,876 --> 00:26:39,356 Speaker 1: off Broadway was a miracle in its own right, you know. 459 00:26:39,396 --> 00:26:43,396 Speaker 1: And then to have landed on Broadway at all was 460 00:26:43,436 --> 00:26:47,076 Speaker 1: a miracle because you toured with it after off Broadway, right, 461 00:26:47,076 --> 00:26:51,196 Speaker 1: you went to Edmonton. Yeah, we did development, Yeah in Edmonton, 462 00:26:51,196 --> 00:26:53,876 Speaker 1: and then we went to London to the National Theater there. Yeah, 463 00:26:53,956 --> 00:26:55,716 Speaker 1: at this point where you saying, God, how long does 464 00:26:55,716 --> 00:26:59,836 Speaker 1: it take to development of musical Yeah, for me, I 465 00:26:59,956 --> 00:27:02,396 Speaker 1: needed all that time. I mean I think we needed 466 00:27:02,436 --> 00:27:06,596 Speaker 1: it because I am not trained in this world, in 467 00:27:06,596 --> 00:27:09,956 Speaker 1: this form, and so there was just a big learning curve. 468 00:27:10,196 --> 00:27:13,596 Speaker 1: Like I you know, I know how to write a 469 00:27:13,876 --> 00:27:17,156 Speaker 1: song writer song that's three and a half minutes long 470 00:27:17,236 --> 00:27:20,436 Speaker 1: and it's got three verses in a chorus, maybe a bridge, 471 00:27:20,676 --> 00:27:25,156 Speaker 1: and that's part of writing for the stage. But there's 472 00:27:25,316 --> 00:27:28,476 Speaker 1: you know, this whole other element of drama and how 473 00:27:28,516 --> 00:27:33,116 Speaker 1: to make a satisfying drama and songs needing to have 474 00:27:33,916 --> 00:27:37,276 Speaker 1: results at the end of them, or you know, revelations. 475 00:27:37,436 --> 00:27:39,916 Speaker 1: It's got to move the plot along exactly, yeah, or 476 00:27:39,916 --> 00:27:42,556 Speaker 1: it's got to build character. Do you remember there were 477 00:27:42,676 --> 00:27:45,116 Speaker 1: things that your director here's told you that. Did she 478 00:27:45,316 --> 00:27:46,756 Speaker 1: say you got to go home and write a song 479 00:27:46,796 --> 00:27:52,956 Speaker 1: about X because that's missing from this show. Yeah, for sure. Well. 480 00:27:53,196 --> 00:27:58,436 Speaker 1: Rachel is a very inspiring and kind of hardcore person. 481 00:27:59,036 --> 00:28:01,476 Speaker 1: She's kind of tough love, which I needed, you know. 482 00:28:01,996 --> 00:28:04,076 Speaker 1: When I first started working with her, I remember, like 483 00:28:04,156 --> 00:28:07,316 Speaker 1: the very first table read that we did, she kind 484 00:28:07,356 --> 00:28:10,956 Speaker 1: of followed up afterwards this like laundry list of things 485 00:28:10,996 --> 00:28:13,076 Speaker 1: that she thought could be improved, and I was like, 486 00:28:13,796 --> 00:28:16,076 Speaker 1: you gotta understand, I've been working on this already for 487 00:28:16,276 --> 00:28:19,716 Speaker 1: you know, seven years, six years. And she was like, well, 488 00:28:19,756 --> 00:28:22,076 Speaker 1: if we're going to work together, you'll have to find 489 00:28:22,116 --> 00:28:26,076 Speaker 1: a way to move past your fatigue. And I was like, wow, 490 00:28:26,556 --> 00:28:30,716 Speaker 1: you know, ladies serious and I needed that. And it 491 00:28:30,796 --> 00:28:33,236 Speaker 1: wasn't just her. We worked with an amazing drama turg 492 00:28:33,356 --> 00:28:39,076 Speaker 1: named Ken Chernelia, and also our producers, especially Mara Isaacs, 493 00:28:39,156 --> 00:28:42,636 Speaker 1: were very involved, kind of dramaturgically, like you know, meeting 494 00:28:42,676 --> 00:28:45,116 Speaker 1: on a regular basis about stuff. I loved it in 495 00:28:45,156 --> 00:28:47,396 Speaker 1: a way. It's nice to have people to show up 496 00:28:47,436 --> 00:28:50,316 Speaker 1: for and it's nice to have a kind of accountability. 497 00:28:50,556 --> 00:28:55,116 Speaker 1: And my work for like the development of the Broadway 498 00:28:55,156 --> 00:28:59,476 Speaker 1: show coincided with me having my first kid, and there 499 00:28:59,596 --> 00:29:04,596 Speaker 1: was something about the discipline of like, all right, there's 500 00:29:04,636 --> 00:29:07,836 Speaker 1: gonna be a reading in this many weeks and so 501 00:29:07,956 --> 00:29:11,116 Speaker 1: I had to carve out this time that felt like 502 00:29:11,196 --> 00:29:14,756 Speaker 1: very grounding for me becoming a new mom and you know, 503 00:29:14,796 --> 00:29:17,716 Speaker 1: your whole schedule is upended. I wasn't able to go 504 00:29:17,756 --> 00:29:21,596 Speaker 1: about things the way I would in my songwriter world, 505 00:29:21,676 --> 00:29:24,956 Speaker 1: where I'm like, well, when when inspiration strikes, all work 506 00:29:24,996 --> 00:29:27,356 Speaker 1: on this. I mean, we can give away the ending. 507 00:29:27,596 --> 00:29:30,036 Speaker 1: It won the Tony for Best Musical, you won for 508 00:29:30,076 --> 00:29:33,556 Speaker 1: Best Original Score. You also wrote the book, though you didn't. 509 00:29:33,956 --> 00:29:36,316 Speaker 1: I'm sure people along the way said, well, you're a musician, 510 00:29:36,356 --> 00:29:38,396 Speaker 1: but you can't write a book for a Broadway musical. 511 00:29:38,716 --> 00:29:41,156 Speaker 1: Did you always say Nope, I'm doing it. You know, 512 00:29:41,596 --> 00:29:45,236 Speaker 1: it's a funny thing. I always have been very moved 513 00:29:45,236 --> 00:29:49,156 Speaker 1: by musicals that are like sung through right. Lay Miss 514 00:29:49,276 --> 00:29:52,116 Speaker 1: is one of my favorites, probably my favorite of all time. 515 00:29:52,196 --> 00:29:55,876 Speaker 1: And I love Hamilton, I love Sweeney Todd. You know, 516 00:29:56,076 --> 00:29:59,356 Speaker 1: I love a lot of these shows where there's not 517 00:29:59,556 --> 00:30:02,716 Speaker 1: that moment of like the book scene that then becomes 518 00:30:03,396 --> 00:30:08,036 Speaker 1: a song. There's that awkward transition, yeah, and just the 519 00:30:08,116 --> 00:30:13,276 Speaker 1: suspension of reality. It's closer to opera that has entag exactly. Yeah. Yeah. 520 00:30:13,316 --> 00:30:15,716 Speaker 1: And so you know, early on there was talk of like, 521 00:30:15,716 --> 00:30:17,276 Speaker 1: should we bring in a book writer for this? And 522 00:30:17,316 --> 00:30:20,556 Speaker 1: I felt nervous about what that would do to the piece, 523 00:30:21,396 --> 00:30:24,116 Speaker 1: which really had its roots in the music world, and 524 00:30:24,596 --> 00:30:27,876 Speaker 1: wanted to kind of remain sort of straddling the like 525 00:30:28,076 --> 00:30:31,556 Speaker 1: world of concert in the world of drama. Eventually, they, 526 00:30:31,756 --> 00:30:36,916 Speaker 1: you know, people stopped suggesting that after a few stars 527 00:30:37,036 --> 00:30:40,836 Speaker 1: from you. Yeah. Yeah. It took a lot of kind 528 00:30:40,836 --> 00:30:44,676 Speaker 1: of learning to figure out, like how to write that 529 00:30:44,756 --> 00:30:47,236 Speaker 1: sort of recitative stuff. And the first thing we did 530 00:30:47,356 --> 00:30:49,596 Speaker 1: was we created Hermes who was able to just speak 531 00:30:49,596 --> 00:30:52,196 Speaker 1: to the audience and literally tell them what's going on, 532 00:30:52,316 --> 00:30:55,316 Speaker 1: you know, a narrator figure. And then and so it 533 00:30:55,396 --> 00:30:57,636 Speaker 1: felt easier to kind of write in that way. And 534 00:30:57,676 --> 00:30:59,956 Speaker 1: then eventually I was like, Rachel, I think I need 535 00:30:59,996 --> 00:31:03,516 Speaker 1: to just I need Orpheus and Eurialesy to speak to 536 00:31:03,556 --> 00:31:07,836 Speaker 1: each other. And she said, yeah, I think you should 537 00:31:07,876 --> 00:31:09,596 Speaker 1: do that. And I was like, but it's to rhyme 538 00:31:09,796 --> 00:31:12,756 Speaker 1: and it's got to be you know, metered, and she's like, okay, 539 00:31:12,836 --> 00:31:15,596 Speaker 1: and so that's you know, that's what Restit TV is. 540 00:31:15,916 --> 00:31:19,596 Speaker 1: And it's yeah, it's very hard to write. I'll bet now, 541 00:31:19,836 --> 00:31:21,676 Speaker 1: had you read a lot of poetry, is there's something 542 00:31:21,716 --> 00:31:24,276 Speaker 1: that sort of guided you with that or that you 543 00:31:24,356 --> 00:31:27,236 Speaker 1: just sit down and figure it out. Yeah, I just 544 00:31:27,276 --> 00:31:29,356 Speaker 1: sat down and figured it out. I mean, I guess 545 00:31:29,436 --> 00:31:33,796 Speaker 1: inspired by the musicals that use that. I mean, lemis 546 00:31:33,916 --> 00:31:36,556 Speaker 1: is a great example. That's so incredible the way that 547 00:31:36,596 --> 00:31:40,396 Speaker 1: those motifs kind of come back around in the stuff. 548 00:31:41,436 --> 00:31:43,476 Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean, I think the tricky thing about 549 00:31:43,516 --> 00:31:46,836 Speaker 1: it is that it's like it's both a totally rarefied 550 00:31:47,156 --> 00:31:50,236 Speaker 1: conversation going on, and also it has to kind of 551 00:31:50,276 --> 00:31:54,196 Speaker 1: sound natural, you know, because it is, after all, like 552 00:31:54,236 --> 00:31:56,876 Speaker 1: a scene between two people. Yeah. The other thing you 553 00:31:56,956 --> 00:32:00,316 Speaker 1: do in this musical is you create a world, which 554 00:32:00,436 --> 00:32:02,956 Speaker 1: which I often think, you know, when you see Broadway shows, 555 00:32:02,956 --> 00:32:05,116 Speaker 1: you said, well, they're trying to convince me of this world. 556 00:32:05,156 --> 00:32:08,076 Speaker 1: I'm not quite buying it. Would you create this whole 557 00:32:08,156 --> 00:32:12,796 Speaker 1: underground that the America of long ago? But not really 558 00:32:13,076 --> 00:32:16,956 Speaker 1: I'm not even sure where it is chronologically. It's affected 559 00:32:16,996 --> 00:32:20,476 Speaker 1: by climate change, but it feels like twenties depression. Yeah, 560 00:32:20,516 --> 00:32:22,516 Speaker 1: how did you conceive of that? How did you make 561 00:32:22,556 --> 00:32:25,476 Speaker 1: that work? You're right, it's meant to not be set 562 00:32:25,476 --> 00:32:27,876 Speaker 1: in a particular time or place. It's really, you know, 563 00:32:27,916 --> 00:32:31,116 Speaker 1: this mythic space. But it takes a lot of inspiration 564 00:32:31,156 --> 00:32:34,076 Speaker 1: from the depression era because of the themes I think 565 00:32:34,396 --> 00:32:37,796 Speaker 1: there was in that era, like the dust bowl, right, 566 00:32:37,916 --> 00:32:41,276 Speaker 1: and the kind of the dust storms that were created 567 00:32:41,356 --> 00:32:48,116 Speaker 1: by this like industrial agricultural overreach, really like a man 568 00:32:48,236 --> 00:32:51,516 Speaker 1: made natural disaster, just like what we see now with 569 00:32:51,516 --> 00:32:53,636 Speaker 1: climate change, but on a smaller scale and sort of 570 00:32:53,636 --> 00:32:57,476 Speaker 1: a more poetic and vintage scale. And also a lot 571 00:32:57,476 --> 00:32:59,196 Speaker 1: of the music that I was inspired by, the kind 572 00:32:59,196 --> 00:33:04,316 Speaker 1: of like protest stuff, the IWW like organizing labor, organizing songs, 573 00:33:04,316 --> 00:33:07,476 Speaker 1: what do you gathrie? Stuff like that that I always 574 00:33:07,476 --> 00:33:12,276 Speaker 1: found very inspiring. And those themes were very present in 575 00:33:12,316 --> 00:33:16,836 Speaker 1: that era in terms of the sort of exploitation of 576 00:33:16,956 --> 00:33:20,116 Speaker 1: labor and then the unionization of labor, and those are 577 00:33:20,116 --> 00:33:23,396 Speaker 1: also themes that show up in our show. And yeah, 578 00:33:23,436 --> 00:33:25,596 Speaker 1: you know, it was funny that I remember a really 579 00:33:25,676 --> 00:33:30,196 Speaker 1: important moment in the writing for Off Broadway where I 580 00:33:30,236 --> 00:33:34,796 Speaker 1: figured out that Hermes could just say don't ask where brother, 581 00:33:34,876 --> 00:33:38,476 Speaker 1: don't ask when it was a road to hell, it 582 00:33:38,516 --> 00:33:40,196 Speaker 1: was hard time, so it was a world of gods 583 00:33:40,236 --> 00:33:43,236 Speaker 1: and men that he could actually tell the audience not 584 00:33:43,316 --> 00:33:47,716 Speaker 1: to worry about what year it was or what the 585 00:33:47,756 --> 00:33:51,516 Speaker 1: precise geographical location was. And then as an audience member, 586 00:33:51,516 --> 00:33:53,316 Speaker 1: you're like, Okay, I'm not going to worry about that, 587 00:33:53,516 --> 00:33:56,756 Speaker 1: you know. Do you remember coming up with that line? Yeah, 588 00:33:56,796 --> 00:33:59,036 Speaker 1: I don't know, I just remember the kind of light 589 00:33:59,076 --> 00:34:01,276 Speaker 1: bulb moment was seeing it come out of the mouth 590 00:34:01,316 --> 00:34:03,716 Speaker 1: of the character at the top of the show, and 591 00:34:03,996 --> 00:34:06,356 Speaker 1: the character who was playing hermis at that time, Chris Sullivan. 592 00:34:06,956 --> 00:34:11,476 Speaker 1: And actually, you know, the roometurg I was mentioning Ken Chernilia. 593 00:34:12,236 --> 00:34:13,796 Speaker 1: He sort of came from a different world than us. 594 00:34:13,796 --> 00:34:16,156 Speaker 1: He was working for Disney at the time, and he 595 00:34:16,996 --> 00:34:19,796 Speaker 1: was very into this, like just take care of the 596 00:34:19,836 --> 00:34:22,076 Speaker 1: audience at the top of the show, you know, just 597 00:34:22,356 --> 00:34:26,276 Speaker 1: establish like where we are so they're not spending the 598 00:34:26,276 --> 00:34:29,836 Speaker 1: whole first act trying to figure it out. Something about 599 00:34:29,996 --> 00:34:32,236 Speaker 1: letting people know they didn't have to worry about that. 600 00:34:32,836 --> 00:34:35,236 Speaker 1: That felt like it did. It did an important thing. 601 00:34:35,676 --> 00:34:39,036 Speaker 1: It makes them open to write the experience and then 602 00:34:39,196 --> 00:34:45,116 Speaker 1: a lot of the orchestration, it feels very like New Orleans, Yeah, influence. Yeah, 603 00:34:45,156 --> 00:34:47,516 Speaker 1: that's great. The dust Bowl thing makes me think you 604 00:34:47,516 --> 00:34:52,276 Speaker 1: could have done sort of very sparse Western country, but 605 00:34:52,316 --> 00:34:56,396 Speaker 1: it's got a different kind of feeling to it. And 606 00:34:56,476 --> 00:34:59,676 Speaker 1: at Hadestown feels a little bit like it's got a 607 00:34:59,716 --> 00:35:02,996 Speaker 1: little bit of French quarter to it. Definitely. Yeah. And 608 00:35:03,436 --> 00:35:06,036 Speaker 1: Our Path, Our Path I think was quite different from 609 00:35:06,076 --> 00:35:09,356 Speaker 1: other musicals in that, Like I mentioned Michael Cherney, who 610 00:35:09,516 --> 00:35:13,476 Speaker 1: was arranging the songs way back at the beginning, you know, 611 00:35:13,876 --> 00:35:17,676 Speaker 1: in this DIY version of the show. And when we 612 00:35:17,716 --> 00:35:21,476 Speaker 1: made our studio record, Todd Sickafus produced this album. He's 613 00:35:21,516 --> 00:35:23,556 Speaker 1: the basis for Rannie to Franco, so it was all 614 00:35:23,636 --> 00:35:25,596 Speaker 1: kind of in the family and he produced it and 615 00:35:25,596 --> 00:35:29,316 Speaker 1: then and began to also add arrangements at that time 616 00:35:29,356 --> 00:35:31,836 Speaker 1: and then became a co arranger with Michael, and the 617 00:35:31,956 --> 00:35:35,196 Speaker 1: orchestrations have all they basically have been baked into the story, 618 00:35:35,516 --> 00:35:37,796 Speaker 1: you know, since the beginning, where I think a lot 619 00:35:37,836 --> 00:35:40,836 Speaker 1: of shows the theaters like obsessed with text and they 620 00:35:40,876 --> 00:35:43,196 Speaker 1: just you know, they're not music's like is that happen? 621 00:35:43,316 --> 00:35:47,276 Speaker 1: Is music happening? Okay? Great? They're so focused on what's 622 00:35:47,276 --> 00:35:50,716 Speaker 1: happening in the text, and this show like necessarily it 623 00:35:50,716 --> 00:35:52,756 Speaker 1: couldn't be that way because it was just sort of 624 00:35:52,796 --> 00:35:54,996 Speaker 1: turned upside down, like it had come from this really 625 00:35:55,076 --> 00:35:59,956 Speaker 1: musical place. And those guys are both you know, jazz 626 00:36:00,196 --> 00:36:04,876 Speaker 1: influenced and Michael and Todd and also kind of art rock, 627 00:36:05,236 --> 00:36:09,356 Speaker 1: indie rock influenced. And there was also something about the 628 00:36:09,516 --> 00:36:14,556 Speaker 1: New Orleans sound that felt right like New Orleans feels 629 00:36:14,596 --> 00:36:18,516 Speaker 1: like a mythic city, right, and it being kind of 630 00:36:18,836 --> 00:36:22,276 Speaker 1: right on the front lines of a lot of this stuff, 631 00:36:22,316 --> 00:36:27,916 Speaker 1: the kind of poverty and the climate stuff, it felt 632 00:36:27,916 --> 00:36:31,356 Speaker 1: like the right place. You started writing this before the 633 00:36:31,396 --> 00:36:34,916 Speaker 1: financial meltdown? Yeah, did that influence you at all? And 634 00:36:34,916 --> 00:36:37,956 Speaker 1: they're kind of the sudden people out of their homes 635 00:36:37,996 --> 00:36:41,516 Speaker 1: and the sudden upheaval in the country. You know, it's 636 00:36:41,516 --> 00:36:44,116 Speaker 1: been so wild with this show because at different moments 637 00:36:44,516 --> 00:36:47,716 Speaker 1: what was happening in current events seemed to be speaking directly, 638 00:36:47,836 --> 00:36:49,876 Speaker 1: you know, through the songs in a way that they 639 00:36:49,916 --> 00:36:52,956 Speaker 1: the songs hadn't been intended that way. But I remember 640 00:36:53,036 --> 00:36:56,396 Speaker 1: that song, wedding song, you know, times being what they 641 00:36:56,436 --> 00:36:58,836 Speaker 1: are hard and getting harder all the time. I used 642 00:36:58,836 --> 00:37:01,836 Speaker 1: to play that in my songwriter shows, and I would 643 00:37:01,836 --> 00:37:04,836 Speaker 1: introduce the song by saying like, this is from this 644 00:37:04,876 --> 00:37:07,116 Speaker 1: folk opera I'm working on. It's set in a post 645 00:37:07,156 --> 00:37:12,636 Speaker 1: apocalyptic American depression era. And people started to laugh, like 646 00:37:12,796 --> 00:37:15,276 Speaker 1: really hard when I would say that, and I was like, 647 00:37:15,316 --> 00:37:16,876 Speaker 1: what's going on, you know, And it was that they 648 00:37:16,916 --> 00:37:22,796 Speaker 1: were feeling the connection between the yeah, the financial breakdown 649 00:37:22,836 --> 00:37:25,796 Speaker 1: and that song. And then later obviously that song while 650 00:37:25,836 --> 00:37:28,356 Speaker 1: we Build the Wall, which was written also in like 651 00:37:28,436 --> 00:37:31,716 Speaker 1: two thousand and six, started to resonate really hard with 652 00:37:31,756 --> 00:37:35,356 Speaker 1: the stuff that our former president was staying in his campaign, right, 653 00:37:35,396 --> 00:37:37,676 Speaker 1: And the lyric is, yeah, why do we build the wall? 654 00:37:37,716 --> 00:37:41,276 Speaker 1: My children? My children? You know, we build the wall 655 00:37:41,516 --> 00:37:43,996 Speaker 1: to keep us free. The enemy is poverty, and we 656 00:37:44,076 --> 00:37:46,236 Speaker 1: build the wall, and the wall keeps out the enemy, 657 00:37:46,236 --> 00:37:48,596 Speaker 1: and we build the wall to keep us free. And 658 00:37:48,676 --> 00:37:50,796 Speaker 1: that's another one that I played in my songwriter shows 659 00:37:50,836 --> 00:37:54,156 Speaker 1: for years, and I never expected it to feel new again, 660 00:37:54,516 --> 00:37:57,076 Speaker 1: and then it did. Okay, Now, I'm sure a million 661 00:37:57,076 --> 00:37:59,196 Speaker 1: people have asked you, but I have to ask you anyway. 662 00:37:59,556 --> 00:38:01,516 Speaker 1: You've been working on this for thirteen years, and it 663 00:38:01,636 --> 00:38:04,836 Speaker 1: must have seemed like a pipe dream at many points. 664 00:38:06,036 --> 00:38:09,036 Speaker 1: You see it on stage, which I'm sure you get raptures. Review. 665 00:38:09,996 --> 00:38:11,796 Speaker 1: First of all, what was that like? You see it 666 00:38:11,796 --> 00:38:14,516 Speaker 1: in old movies like Betty Davis waiting to see what 667 00:38:14,556 --> 00:38:17,036 Speaker 1: the morning paper says about a performance? What is it 668 00:38:17,076 --> 00:38:20,036 Speaker 1: like to actually sit around and wait for a review 669 00:38:20,236 --> 00:38:23,596 Speaker 1: from the newspaper? Right? Oh, It's so funny in the 670 00:38:23,596 --> 00:38:28,156 Speaker 1: theater because the reviews come out like right after the show, 671 00:38:29,156 --> 00:38:31,076 Speaker 1: and everyone's at a party, do you know what I mean? 672 00:38:31,196 --> 00:38:33,956 Speaker 1: You're like having some champagne at like a party, and 673 00:38:33,996 --> 00:38:36,396 Speaker 1: then someone will like pull out their phone in the 674 00:38:36,476 --> 00:38:40,876 Speaker 1: women's room and there's the New York Times review. Yeah. 675 00:38:40,916 --> 00:38:43,356 Speaker 1: I was a deer in the headlights. I mean, when 676 00:38:43,356 --> 00:38:47,196 Speaker 1: I think about it, I was so kind of exhausted 677 00:38:47,276 --> 00:38:52,156 Speaker 1: from the effort of the rewriting, and I remember just like, yeah, 678 00:38:52,396 --> 00:38:55,596 Speaker 1: I think it was opening night. I got to go up, 679 00:38:55,636 --> 00:38:57,916 Speaker 1: you know, with Rachel after the with the cast and 680 00:38:57,956 --> 00:39:00,596 Speaker 1: sort of take a bow, and someone handed me a 681 00:39:00,596 --> 00:39:04,036 Speaker 1: big bouquet of flowers. You didn't know. I didn't know 682 00:39:04,036 --> 00:39:05,956 Speaker 1: what to do with it, so I just put it 683 00:39:05,996 --> 00:39:09,476 Speaker 1: on the ground. You really are new to the theater. 684 00:39:11,196 --> 00:39:14,116 Speaker 1: It was very awkward for me, and but but mostly 685 00:39:14,156 --> 00:39:16,436 Speaker 1: just because I was completely overwhelmed by the experience. I 686 00:39:16,476 --> 00:39:19,956 Speaker 1: didn't have a way to process it in the moment 687 00:39:20,036 --> 00:39:23,476 Speaker 1: or feel proud or relieved or any of those things. 688 00:39:23,516 --> 00:39:26,276 Speaker 1: You know. It was actually pretty powerful too. After the 689 00:39:26,356 --> 00:39:28,076 Speaker 1: long shutdown. It was shut down for a year and 690 00:39:28,116 --> 00:39:30,396 Speaker 1: a half and then we reopened. We had a reopening 691 00:39:30,516 --> 00:39:35,116 Speaker 1: night where I'm like well rested, well hydrated and got 692 00:39:35,116 --> 00:39:39,036 Speaker 1: to really enjoy that, you know, experience of seeing the 693 00:39:39,036 --> 00:39:41,156 Speaker 1: show again and also seeing the like coming back to 694 00:39:41,196 --> 00:39:43,236 Speaker 1: life of the theater and of New York City and 695 00:39:43,876 --> 00:39:46,796 Speaker 1: the culture, you know, in general, that felt really powerful. 696 00:39:47,036 --> 00:39:49,396 Speaker 1: But the main thing I think I'll say about that 697 00:39:49,436 --> 00:39:52,756 Speaker 1: time was like, yeah, I remember one time, I was 698 00:39:52,796 --> 00:39:55,876 Speaker 1: staying in Manhattan, so I was working on the show 699 00:39:55,996 --> 00:39:57,516 Speaker 1: as much as I could have. Didn't want to commute 700 00:39:57,516 --> 00:40:01,196 Speaker 1: back and forth to my apartment in Brooklyn. I couldn't sleeper. 701 00:40:01,476 --> 00:40:03,636 Speaker 1: I was up early, and I went for a jog 702 00:40:04,036 --> 00:40:07,116 Speaker 1: around Midtown in the dark, and I jogged past the 703 00:40:07,116 --> 00:40:10,036 Speaker 1: theater and there was like these kids were camped out 704 00:40:10,196 --> 00:40:12,996 Speaker 1: outside the theater waiting to get tickets. I don't rush 705 00:40:12,996 --> 00:40:15,236 Speaker 1: tickets or what. I'm not sure what the situation was, 706 00:40:15,316 --> 00:40:18,876 Speaker 1: but and some of them were dressed up cuss playing, 707 00:40:18,956 --> 00:40:21,676 Speaker 1: you know, our characters. And that was a moment where 708 00:40:21,716 --> 00:40:24,916 Speaker 1: I was like, I have no idea what this show is, like, 709 00:40:24,956 --> 00:40:26,716 Speaker 1: I don't know what it means too. I'm never going 710 00:40:26,756 --> 00:40:29,436 Speaker 1: to know what the relationship is of these kids to 711 00:40:29,516 --> 00:40:33,716 Speaker 1: this show. It's not mine, you know, it's its own animal, 712 00:40:33,756 --> 00:40:36,236 Speaker 1: and it's like living in the world now doing its thing. 713 00:40:36,556 --> 00:40:40,756 Speaker 1: Powerful and strange feeling. And then on Tony Night. Now, 714 00:40:40,876 --> 00:40:43,996 Speaker 1: you didn't win a lot of Off Broadway awards that 715 00:40:44,356 --> 00:40:46,316 Speaker 1: played an off Broadway. So did you go into the 716 00:40:46,356 --> 00:40:50,716 Speaker 1: Tony saying I got nominated, that's fine, or did you think, oh, 717 00:40:50,836 --> 00:40:54,436 Speaker 1: maybe I don't remember. I remember. I did have to 718 00:40:54,476 --> 00:40:58,156 Speaker 1: sort of prepare some remarks just in case. Yeah, I mean, 719 00:40:58,236 --> 00:41:00,236 Speaker 1: let's the awkward thing about the awards thing, since you 720 00:41:00,316 --> 00:41:03,316 Speaker 1: have to you have to get like all nervous and prepared, 721 00:41:03,436 --> 00:41:07,716 Speaker 1: even if then nothing happens. Yeah, it was an extraordinary night. 722 00:41:07,956 --> 00:41:11,316 Speaker 1: I was so amazing to see so many people on 723 00:41:11,356 --> 00:41:15,556 Speaker 1: our team win Tony's Andre you know, Andrea Shields gave 724 00:41:15,596 --> 00:41:18,916 Speaker 1: that incredible speech and Rachel and Yeah, it was an 725 00:41:18,916 --> 00:41:22,716 Speaker 1: amazing night. You want to eight overall? Yeah, Best Musical. 726 00:41:22,836 --> 00:41:25,556 Speaker 1: David Byrne gave me my Tony. It was very special. 727 00:41:25,796 --> 00:41:28,356 Speaker 1: And then I walked with him to the press room 728 00:41:28,356 --> 00:41:33,796 Speaker 1: like you didn't put it on the ground like the flower. Yeah, 729 00:41:33,876 --> 00:41:36,196 Speaker 1: right now, is there going to be a movie? I 730 00:41:36,196 --> 00:41:39,076 Speaker 1: would love that. I'm not in a rush for that 731 00:41:39,116 --> 00:41:43,676 Speaker 1: to happen, but I'd love that to happen. Yeah. Yeah, 732 00:41:43,716 --> 00:41:45,876 Speaker 1: you would have to be animated, wouldn't it. Oh, it's 733 00:41:45,916 --> 00:41:48,836 Speaker 1: so interesting that you say that because I've thought that 734 00:41:48,916 --> 00:41:51,396 Speaker 1: a bunch of times. It's tricky to know, Yeah, I'm 735 00:41:51,396 --> 00:41:53,636 Speaker 1: really in a space of like there was a lot 736 00:41:53,636 --> 00:41:56,316 Speaker 1: of kind of talk of it right after Broadway, and 737 00:41:56,356 --> 00:41:58,876 Speaker 1: it felt to me like, hey, I gotta take a 738 00:41:58,916 --> 00:42:00,756 Speaker 1: break from this thing. I can't even look at it 739 00:42:00,796 --> 00:42:04,196 Speaker 1: anymore and be like I really want I really wanted 740 00:42:04,236 --> 00:42:06,396 Speaker 1: a film adaptation to be its own animal and not 741 00:42:06,476 --> 00:42:10,276 Speaker 1: feel like it was imitating what what was happening on stage. 742 00:42:10,276 --> 00:42:13,916 Speaker 1: And it's tricky because it's not, as you're saying, not 743 00:42:13,996 --> 00:42:18,036 Speaker 1: setting a particular time or place through it's easy for 744 00:42:18,076 --> 00:42:21,356 Speaker 1: it to be done kind of wrong if it's live action. 745 00:42:21,596 --> 00:42:24,796 Speaker 1: I guess we'll be right back with more from Bruce 746 00:42:24,836 --> 00:42:33,236 Speaker 1: Headlam and Annias Mitchell. After a quick break, let's hear 747 00:42:33,276 --> 00:42:37,276 Speaker 1: a live performance of Annas Mitchell's song Revenant off her 748 00:42:37,356 --> 00:43:08,596 Speaker 1: latest album where'd y'all Letters All Again? Coffee rings in 749 00:43:08,636 --> 00:43:15,596 Speaker 1: a book, point pen, tear stains every known Then I 750 00:43:15,716 --> 00:43:22,356 Speaker 1: remember what they meant. Revenant, come on back again, Come on, Revenant, 751 00:43:23,916 --> 00:43:41,676 Speaker 1: come and take my hand, Revenant, come on back in 752 00:43:41,796 --> 00:43:46,316 Speaker 1: her box under the stairs, found the lock of a 753 00:43:46,436 --> 00:43:54,276 Speaker 1: child's hair. Suddenly I saw you there rainny eyed in 754 00:43:54,316 --> 00:44:00,916 Speaker 1: a wooden chair, ran outside. I hede your face in 755 00:44:01,036 --> 00:44:06,636 Speaker 1: the wild. Queen Anne's lace, green and white around your place, 756 00:44:08,476 --> 00:44:14,996 Speaker 1: wave and the win. Revenance, come on back again, Come on, Revenance, 757 00:44:16,636 --> 00:44:21,916 Speaker 1: Come and take my hand. Revenance, Come and let me 758 00:44:22,036 --> 00:44:27,236 Speaker 1: hold you in my arms. Come and give him my shoulder. Wedding. 759 00:44:29,636 --> 00:44:59,916 Speaker 1: Come and show me what it is he wants. Oh familiar, 760 00:45:00,036 --> 00:45:04,556 Speaker 1: Choose to draw as holds the mirror you've dressed before. 761 00:45:06,436 --> 00:45:12,116 Speaker 1: Throw in shadows on the floor. I know you're behind 762 00:45:12,196 --> 00:45:18,436 Speaker 1: that door. Light the lamp and turn the key. I'm 763 00:45:18,436 --> 00:45:23,716 Speaker 1: standing out your vanity. We're as young as we liver be, 764 00:45:25,556 --> 00:45:30,716 Speaker 1: oh as we ever been. Revenant, come on back again. 765 00:45:31,196 --> 00:45:38,516 Speaker 1: Come on, Revenant, Come and take my hand. Evidence, Come 766 00:45:38,556 --> 00:45:45,316 Speaker 1: on back again. Come on Revenant, come and take my hand. Evidence, 767 00:45:46,916 --> 00:46:08,996 Speaker 1: Come on back. So if you sit down to do 768 00:46:09,156 --> 00:46:13,996 Speaker 1: this album and then do those lessons from writing, characterization, 769 00:46:14,156 --> 00:46:18,076 Speaker 1: moving it along, do they change your writing for this album? Yeah? 770 00:46:18,076 --> 00:46:20,356 Speaker 1: I know, I know that I'm a different writer after 771 00:46:20,396 --> 00:46:22,396 Speaker 1: Haiti sound, but I can't really put my finger on 772 00:46:22,436 --> 00:46:26,476 Speaker 1: what that is. Partly I was I felt so free, 773 00:46:26,556 --> 00:46:29,476 Speaker 1: I felt so free to write whatever passed through my 774 00:46:29,556 --> 00:46:34,396 Speaker 1: heart and to be just me and the instrument and 775 00:46:35,236 --> 00:46:39,396 Speaker 1: the words, and that felt really freeing. But yeah, I 776 00:46:39,636 --> 00:46:41,476 Speaker 1: you know what, there's something that I did in that 777 00:46:41,796 --> 00:46:45,076 Speaker 1: pandemic time that I never had done, never had allowed 778 00:46:45,116 --> 00:46:48,236 Speaker 1: myself to do. All the people had mentioned it many times, 779 00:46:48,236 --> 00:46:51,476 Speaker 1: which is this idea of just writing this song a 780 00:46:51,596 --> 00:46:54,156 Speaker 1: day for like a week. And I did it with 781 00:46:54,236 --> 00:46:56,996 Speaker 1: a group of other songwriters, and it was this beautiful 782 00:46:57,316 --> 00:47:00,196 Speaker 1: and intense experience where if you if you fail to 783 00:47:00,236 --> 00:47:02,676 Speaker 1: write a song on a given day, then you're like 784 00:47:02,796 --> 00:47:07,316 Speaker 1: lovingly excommunicated in the group. Wow, you know, you don't 785 00:47:07,356 --> 00:47:10,596 Speaker 1: finish the week. So that so again like a kind 786 00:47:10,596 --> 00:47:13,796 Speaker 1: of a mutual accountability thing, and I found it so 787 00:47:13,916 --> 00:47:16,756 Speaker 1: healing to have to say yes to whatever was wanted 788 00:47:16,796 --> 00:47:19,116 Speaker 1: to come through and not second guess it. And a 789 00:47:19,116 --> 00:47:21,276 Speaker 1: lot of the songs on this new record, actually that 790 00:47:21,316 --> 00:47:23,556 Speaker 1: song Real World, I just wrote that in like an 791 00:47:23,556 --> 00:47:26,236 Speaker 1: hour on one of those days, and a bunch of 792 00:47:26,236 --> 00:47:28,956 Speaker 1: the other ones I sort of began in that time 793 00:47:29,276 --> 00:47:31,836 Speaker 1: and then finished them on my own time. So that 794 00:47:31,876 --> 00:47:34,036 Speaker 1: was a sort of I guess it was a kind 795 00:47:34,076 --> 00:47:36,756 Speaker 1: of a discipline, but it also felt like just all 796 00:47:36,796 --> 00:47:40,116 Speaker 1: bets are off and you're safe. To fail, you know, 797 00:47:40,316 --> 00:47:43,596 Speaker 1: and that felt really good. But you couldn't not do 798 00:47:43,716 --> 00:47:48,476 Speaker 1: it right. Oh yeah, yeah, maybe you need that kind 799 00:47:48,516 --> 00:47:56,356 Speaker 1: of pressure a Broadway show angry songwriters like replacing the critics. Yeah, 800 00:47:56,476 --> 00:47:59,996 Speaker 1: angry song Well, you know, I felt very free. I 801 00:48:00,076 --> 00:48:02,836 Speaker 1: felt also like no one was watching and no one cared, 802 00:48:03,036 --> 00:48:05,356 Speaker 1: which was important. I wrote the songs like more for 803 00:48:05,436 --> 00:48:08,516 Speaker 1: me than anyone else, and then suddenly realized like, oh, 804 00:48:08,556 --> 00:48:10,116 Speaker 1: I'm going to make a record out of these. And 805 00:48:10,116 --> 00:48:12,236 Speaker 1: then I was like, I got to do this record immediately. 806 00:48:12,596 --> 00:48:14,316 Speaker 1: I don't want to sit on them and think about 807 00:48:14,356 --> 00:48:17,276 Speaker 1: them and try to improve them. So tell me about revenue. 808 00:48:17,636 --> 00:48:19,716 Speaker 1: That's a song. I started in the song a day 809 00:48:19,916 --> 00:48:24,556 Speaker 1: week and it was really inspired by my grandparents house 810 00:48:24,596 --> 00:48:27,316 Speaker 1: that I was living in. There was a box full 811 00:48:27,356 --> 00:48:32,676 Speaker 1: of my old journals and letter correspondences and I reread 812 00:48:32,716 --> 00:48:35,356 Speaker 1: a bunch of them. I burned some of my old 813 00:48:35,436 --> 00:48:39,196 Speaker 1: journals and some of them I kept, and there was 814 00:48:39,236 --> 00:48:43,236 Speaker 1: a lack of hair and I had this just real, 815 00:48:43,676 --> 00:48:47,716 Speaker 1: like visceral memory of being a kid in that house. 816 00:48:47,756 --> 00:48:49,636 Speaker 1: You know, I grew up in my home, but I 817 00:48:49,636 --> 00:48:51,596 Speaker 1: would run down the driveway to my grandparents house and 818 00:48:51,636 --> 00:48:53,756 Speaker 1: it was kind of like my happy place. I could 819 00:48:54,116 --> 00:48:57,316 Speaker 1: do crafting. My grandma was a quilter, and she always 820 00:48:57,316 --> 00:49:00,636 Speaker 1: would have something on the stove. And I felt, yeah, 821 00:49:00,676 --> 00:49:02,116 Speaker 1: in this way that you're kind of when you're a 822 00:49:02,116 --> 00:49:05,156 Speaker 1: little kid, you're just become a party your surroundings, and 823 00:49:05,196 --> 00:49:07,476 Speaker 1: you get you get upset about something in the house, 824 00:49:07,476 --> 00:49:11,036 Speaker 1: and you sort of run outside into the garden and 825 00:49:11,076 --> 00:49:14,396 Speaker 1: then you're just like one with the garden. That was 826 00:49:14,396 --> 00:49:17,556 Speaker 1: the feeling that I think I was having in that house. 827 00:49:17,716 --> 00:49:22,036 Speaker 1: And and that word revenant is so beautiful because I 828 00:49:22,116 --> 00:49:24,356 Speaker 1: you know, it's sort of a phantom, but also I 829 00:49:24,436 --> 00:49:27,076 Speaker 1: think it literally means like one who comes back, one 830 00:49:27,116 --> 00:49:29,796 Speaker 1: who returns. And I'm not sure if that is me, 831 00:49:30,036 --> 00:49:32,476 Speaker 1: you know, returning to that place of my childhood, or 832 00:49:33,036 --> 00:49:35,316 Speaker 1: or my grandma. They thinking about my grandma, but it 833 00:49:35,476 --> 00:49:39,556 Speaker 1: felt like I was encountering her. It's in some way 834 00:49:39,716 --> 00:49:41,876 Speaker 1: and encountering myself, I think, is a thing at the 835 00:49:41,956 --> 00:49:44,236 Speaker 1: age that I am that I am now looking in 836 00:49:44,276 --> 00:49:46,996 Speaker 1: the mirror, you know, on her old bureau that I 837 00:49:47,036 --> 00:49:49,556 Speaker 1: remember from being a kid. There's this old mirror and 838 00:49:49,596 --> 00:49:52,276 Speaker 1: it's kind of you know when a mirror goes kind 839 00:49:52,276 --> 00:49:55,796 Speaker 1: of dark, and see my face now, and I'm the 840 00:49:55,836 --> 00:49:59,116 Speaker 1: age I am now here as young as you'll ever be. 841 00:50:00,316 --> 00:50:03,356 Speaker 1: Tell me a bit about the song A Little Big Girl, 842 00:50:03,636 --> 00:50:06,796 Speaker 1: which is a little political in points, but just tell 843 00:50:06,836 --> 00:50:10,356 Speaker 1: me what inspired that. So that's a that took me 844 00:50:10,476 --> 00:50:14,116 Speaker 1: years to write. I started that song in twenty sixteen, 845 00:50:14,156 --> 00:50:16,036 Speaker 1: and I remember because I was on a tour with 846 00:50:16,396 --> 00:50:19,676 Speaker 1: Patti Griffin and Sarah Watkins and the first verse of 847 00:50:19,716 --> 00:50:22,716 Speaker 1: it kind of just drafted into my lap and I thought, Oh, 848 00:50:22,796 --> 00:50:24,876 Speaker 1: this is gonna be easy, This is gonna be an 849 00:50:24,876 --> 00:50:27,196 Speaker 1: easy one to write. And I tried and tried at 850 00:50:27,236 --> 00:50:29,276 Speaker 1: various times, and I just couldn't figure out how to 851 00:50:29,276 --> 00:50:32,156 Speaker 1: finish it. And I was also working on Haiti's sound, 852 00:50:32,196 --> 00:50:34,916 Speaker 1: and it was hard to put, you know, the time in. 853 00:50:35,596 --> 00:50:37,756 Speaker 1: But I think also I had to live some more years, 854 00:50:37,796 --> 00:50:41,956 Speaker 1: you know, have another kid, be a little older, returned home. 855 00:50:42,396 --> 00:50:45,956 Speaker 1: It's a song about growing older as a woman, and 856 00:50:46,316 --> 00:50:49,636 Speaker 1: it's a little bit about my mom, about me and 857 00:50:50,956 --> 00:50:54,356 Speaker 1: for my girls. And I think what made it hard 858 00:50:54,396 --> 00:50:57,836 Speaker 1: to write actually is that there was times it was 859 00:50:57,956 --> 00:51:01,236 Speaker 1: veering towards becoming sort of like a soapboxy thing, like 860 00:51:01,396 --> 00:51:03,756 Speaker 1: me on a soapbox having it all figured out telling 861 00:51:03,796 --> 00:51:07,396 Speaker 1: you what's wrong with the culture or whatever, And the 862 00:51:07,436 --> 00:51:10,036 Speaker 1: truth is that like it's a song about not having 863 00:51:10,036 --> 00:51:12,596 Speaker 1: it figured out, Like it's a song about arriving at 864 00:51:12,596 --> 00:51:15,476 Speaker 1: this age thinking by now you'd have it figured out 865 00:51:15,516 --> 00:51:19,396 Speaker 1: and you don't. And essentially like, yeah, the just the 866 00:51:19,516 --> 00:51:21,756 Speaker 1: kind of like the tools that you gather as a 867 00:51:21,836 --> 00:51:24,596 Speaker 1: young woman, the tools that work for you at a 868 00:51:24,636 --> 00:51:27,956 Speaker 1: certain point no longer work for you, and the sense 869 00:51:27,996 --> 00:51:31,516 Speaker 1: of like no one gave me the tools for now, 870 00:51:31,916 --> 00:51:34,476 Speaker 1: or like how do I acquire this new set of tools? 871 00:51:34,916 --> 00:51:37,116 Speaker 1: So is it a song? Is there a little bit 872 00:51:37,156 --> 00:51:40,996 Speaker 1: of anger in the song that nobody gave you those tools? Yeah, 873 00:51:41,036 --> 00:51:46,356 Speaker 1: but I wouldn't say it's anger directed anywhere but at myself. 874 00:51:46,676 --> 00:51:49,156 Speaker 1: I mean, there's a really great line and it's set 875 00:51:49,196 --> 00:51:52,236 Speaker 1: in a it's sexual context, but it has sort of 876 00:51:52,236 --> 00:51:54,236 Speaker 1: this sort of wider meaning about let him have his 877 00:51:54,316 --> 00:51:58,636 Speaker 1: way instead of saying what you want? Right. Yeah, I 878 00:51:58,716 --> 00:52:01,756 Speaker 1: remember in the studio I was debating let them have 879 00:52:01,916 --> 00:52:05,956 Speaker 1: their way versus let him have his way, you know, 880 00:52:06,156 --> 00:52:08,716 Speaker 1: like let them have their way felt less pointed, I 881 00:52:08,756 --> 00:52:12,596 Speaker 1: guess in terms of like gender stereotypes and whatever, And 882 00:52:12,636 --> 00:52:14,836 Speaker 1: ultimately the other thing felt more true like it just 883 00:52:14,876 --> 00:52:17,316 Speaker 1: felt more raw. But I think, yeah, you know, as 884 00:52:17,356 --> 00:52:21,556 Speaker 1: a woman still like you learned to be sort of 885 00:52:21,836 --> 00:52:24,756 Speaker 1: deferential and not to take up space, and so it's 886 00:52:24,756 --> 00:52:26,596 Speaker 1: hard to learn how to do those things. You know, 887 00:52:27,236 --> 00:52:30,236 Speaker 1: you wrote a massively successful Broadway musical, there must have 888 00:52:30,276 --> 00:52:35,436 Speaker 1: been points in which you had to stand up for yourself. Yeah. 889 00:52:35,476 --> 00:52:38,476 Speaker 1: I do stand up for myself, but I have a 890 00:52:38,476 --> 00:52:42,076 Speaker 1: lot of feelings about it. You know, it takes a 891 00:52:42,076 --> 00:52:45,036 Speaker 1: long time. Sometimes I have to like given to another 892 00:52:45,596 --> 00:52:48,796 Speaker 1: person's idea and then realize I'm miserable, and then weeks 893 00:52:48,876 --> 00:52:50,676 Speaker 1: later come back and say, actually I need to do 894 00:52:50,716 --> 00:52:54,676 Speaker 1: this where Yeah, I wish there was less drama internally 895 00:52:54,716 --> 00:52:57,756 Speaker 1: about that stuff. But it was actually really cool working 896 00:52:57,836 --> 00:53:02,916 Speaker 1: with Rachel Chapkin, who's a total boss and yeah, very 897 00:53:03,036 --> 00:53:06,356 Speaker 1: very assertive, and watching the way that she worked with people. 898 00:53:06,596 --> 00:53:09,316 Speaker 1: I can remember like a time we were we were 899 00:53:09,396 --> 00:53:14,516 Speaker 1: proofreading like the program for our show in London, and 900 00:53:14,676 --> 00:53:18,236 Speaker 1: I wrote an email of something like, I don't know, 901 00:53:18,356 --> 00:53:20,076 Speaker 1: what do you think about this? Maybe this could be 902 00:53:20,116 --> 00:53:22,836 Speaker 1: a little bit more like this, you know, early deferential, 903 00:53:22,836 --> 00:53:25,676 Speaker 1: and Rachel comes in. It's like what an is saying, 904 00:53:25,796 --> 00:53:29,316 Speaker 1: is she wants this and you know it's powerful too. Yeah, 905 00:53:29,356 --> 00:53:31,236 Speaker 1: she's good at that. So it's a little easier now 906 00:53:31,276 --> 00:53:33,436 Speaker 1: to for you to say that, I guess. So, I 907 00:53:33,436 --> 00:53:36,636 Speaker 1: guess it's a lifelong practice. Also, I do want to 908 00:53:36,636 --> 00:53:39,076 Speaker 1: ask you a little bit about singing older songs. You 909 00:53:39,116 --> 00:53:42,236 Speaker 1: did a whole really great album of child ballads, and 910 00:53:42,316 --> 00:53:44,556 Speaker 1: child refers to the guy who collected the ballads, not 911 00:53:44,636 --> 00:53:48,276 Speaker 1: actually children. You did your own version of Shenandoah. You 912 00:53:48,316 --> 00:53:50,756 Speaker 1: did Hobo's lah blah by, which is the Yeah, wow, 913 00:53:50,836 --> 00:53:55,356 Speaker 1: you did your research. Oh, it's all up here, and 914 00:53:55,476 --> 00:53:57,796 Speaker 1: a lot of it seems to relate to Hadestown and 915 00:53:57,836 --> 00:53:59,636 Speaker 1: that when you do those songs that almost kind of 916 00:53:59,636 --> 00:54:01,436 Speaker 1: feels like the song's going through you. I don't know 917 00:54:01,436 --> 00:54:03,556 Speaker 1: if that makes any sense, you know, that kind of 918 00:54:03,636 --> 00:54:06,516 Speaker 1: experience of doing really old songs making it your own, 919 00:54:06,596 --> 00:54:10,316 Speaker 1: but it's still it's like you're passing baton or some time. 920 00:54:10,756 --> 00:54:12,436 Speaker 1: I guess what's the attraction for you to do those? 921 00:54:12,596 --> 00:54:19,636 Speaker 1: Uh huh? It's so inspiring. I love traditional music, traditional 922 00:54:19,836 --> 00:54:26,156 Speaker 1: text and mythology and old stories, and for me, like 923 00:54:26,196 --> 00:54:28,396 Speaker 1: what I'm interested in always is the kind of like 924 00:54:29,036 --> 00:54:31,036 Speaker 1: to be at the center of the ven diagram. Of 925 00:54:31,076 --> 00:54:35,476 Speaker 1: like what feels true and real for me and emotional 926 00:54:35,516 --> 00:54:42,756 Speaker 1: and sort of heart full and tearful and alive, and 927 00:54:42,796 --> 00:54:48,116 Speaker 1: then what feels like it's epic, mythic, universal. The center 928 00:54:48,116 --> 00:54:50,116 Speaker 1: of that is where I always kind of want to 929 00:54:50,156 --> 00:54:53,036 Speaker 1: be because I guess it's like a way of locating 930 00:54:53,076 --> 00:54:59,876 Speaker 1: myself in history. And also, yeah, the Bonny Light Horseman band, 931 00:54:59,996 --> 00:55:03,396 Speaker 1: like our first record is all reworkings of traditional texts, 932 00:55:03,436 --> 00:55:07,596 Speaker 1: and then we've just created a record that is original songs, 933 00:55:07,916 --> 00:55:10,916 Speaker 1: but they're meant to be in conversation with the old stuff. 934 00:55:11,676 --> 00:55:14,516 Speaker 1: And it really with that band especially felt like it's 935 00:55:14,556 --> 00:55:18,196 Speaker 1: just a spectrum, you know, and that it's a relief 936 00:55:18,276 --> 00:55:21,716 Speaker 1: almost to realize that you're not coming up with this 937 00:55:21,756 --> 00:55:25,796 Speaker 1: stuff from scratch, Like we're all living in a world 938 00:55:25,796 --> 00:55:29,076 Speaker 1: in which there's you know, there's eleven notes in the scale, 939 00:55:29,076 --> 00:55:32,756 Speaker 1: and there's only so many stories. There's only so many 940 00:55:33,156 --> 00:55:36,636 Speaker 1: words that you could tell those stories with, and so 941 00:55:37,276 --> 00:55:39,716 Speaker 1: we're standing on the backs, you know, of the stuff 942 00:55:39,716 --> 00:55:41,636 Speaker 1: that came before. And that's that's a I think a 943 00:55:41,996 --> 00:55:46,076 Speaker 1: really inspiring and relieving feeling that you don't have to 944 00:55:46,116 --> 00:55:49,516 Speaker 1: hold up the universe, you know, one of those ven diagrams. 945 00:55:49,516 --> 00:55:52,756 Speaker 1: I love on your first album, you quote T. S. 946 00:55:52,836 --> 00:55:55,516 Speaker 1: Eliott in the room, the women come and go speaking 947 00:55:55,516 --> 00:55:58,716 Speaker 1: on their mobile phones. I'm not getting the crime exactly, 948 00:55:58,756 --> 00:56:01,036 Speaker 1: but I love that. I love that sort of how 949 00:56:01,076 --> 00:56:05,476 Speaker 1: you make that the stuff that feels more ancient and permanent. 950 00:56:05,516 --> 00:56:09,476 Speaker 1: With this, it's just like contemporary reference. Thank you. I 951 00:56:09,516 --> 00:56:13,076 Speaker 1: would like not write that line today. You wouldn't it 952 00:56:13,076 --> 00:56:16,276 Speaker 1: would be sacrilege or I don't know. I just felt 953 00:56:16,356 --> 00:56:22,356 Speaker 1: very literary. I've sort of maybe been running from academia 954 00:56:22,476 --> 00:56:26,036 Speaker 1: since those days. I would have been like an undergrad 955 00:56:26,156 --> 00:56:29,436 Speaker 1: when I wrote that. Pretty good for an undergrad, thank you. Okay, 956 00:56:29,516 --> 00:56:32,396 Speaker 1: did your father approve he's the he's the professor in 957 00:56:32,436 --> 00:56:35,756 Speaker 1: the family. Yeah, I'm sure. Okay, So this is a 958 00:56:35,756 --> 00:56:39,076 Speaker 1: great record. What's next? So well, we just put out 959 00:56:39,076 --> 00:56:42,356 Speaker 1: this new Bondy Light record. Okay, it's called Rolling Golden Holy. 960 00:56:42,436 --> 00:56:44,716 Speaker 1: Just like last week, it came out and we've been 961 00:56:44,756 --> 00:56:48,276 Speaker 1: touring with it. This year has been a crazy amount 962 00:56:48,316 --> 00:56:51,356 Speaker 1: of travel because I've been touring this record as well 963 00:56:51,356 --> 00:56:54,036 Speaker 1: as the Bonny Light record, and so I'm already like 964 00:56:54,916 --> 00:56:58,276 Speaker 1: pretty psyched to go home and do some writing. I'm 965 00:56:58,276 --> 00:57:00,876 Speaker 1: sort of desperate to do it. I feel like I've 966 00:57:00,916 --> 00:57:03,316 Speaker 1: gotten some records out of my system which I really 967 00:57:03,356 --> 00:57:06,996 Speaker 1: needed to do, and now you know, I would love 968 00:57:07,116 --> 00:57:10,076 Speaker 1: if the right story came along to work on something 969 00:57:10,076 --> 00:57:13,116 Speaker 1: longer for him to do. I have a dream to 970 00:57:13,156 --> 00:57:16,196 Speaker 1: write a play that actually doesn't have music, and it's 971 00:57:16,436 --> 00:57:19,676 Speaker 1: we'll see what happens. You have the story idea for it, 972 00:57:19,836 --> 00:57:22,436 Speaker 1: or I do, but I shouldn't say it on the mic. 973 00:57:22,556 --> 00:57:24,796 Speaker 1: You're not going to say it on the mic. That's great, 974 00:57:25,556 --> 00:57:27,436 Speaker 1: thank you? Right, yeah, all right, well, thank you so 975 00:57:27,516 --> 00:57:29,916 Speaker 1: much for coming in. It's been terrific night pleasure. Thank 976 00:57:29,916 --> 00:57:32,196 Speaker 1: you so much. Album. You want to do one more? 977 00:57:32,196 --> 00:57:34,236 Speaker 1: You want to do the short one? Um, yeah, let's 978 00:57:34,276 --> 00:57:36,876 Speaker 1: do it, all right, let's do it. It's called the 979 00:57:36,916 --> 00:57:52,316 Speaker 1: real world, all right. Yeah. I want to live in 980 00:57:52,356 --> 00:57:56,676 Speaker 1: the real world. Weak out to real birds, singing loud 981 00:57:56,836 --> 00:58:00,236 Speaker 1: enough to be really heard by us in the real world. 982 00:58:01,676 --> 00:58:04,716 Speaker 1: I want to lie in the real grass, watch the 983 00:58:04,796 --> 00:58:09,556 Speaker 1: real clouds rolling past the pastors, the ever lasting seals 984 00:58:09,676 --> 00:58:23,836 Speaker 1: of the real world. I want to talk with my 985 00:58:23,956 --> 00:58:28,516 Speaker 1: mouth full, pass around the vegetables with real folks at 986 00:58:28,516 --> 00:58:33,116 Speaker 1: a real table a meal in the real world. I 987 00:58:33,196 --> 00:58:36,476 Speaker 1: want to dance in your real grip, feel your real 988 00:58:36,556 --> 00:58:39,876 Speaker 1: hands on my hips, and taste real whiskey on your 989 00:58:39,916 --> 00:58:43,916 Speaker 1: lips when we kiss. In the real world, I want 990 00:58:43,916 --> 00:58:49,116 Speaker 1: to cry on your shoulder, real feelings blowing over blow 991 00:58:49,196 --> 00:58:51,876 Speaker 1: my nose like it really hold me close. In the 992 00:58:51,956 --> 00:58:55,956 Speaker 1: real world. I want to live in the real world. 993 00:58:56,836 --> 00:59:00,476 Speaker 1: We got the real birds singing loud enough to be 994 00:59:00,596 --> 00:59:34,596 Speaker 1: really heard by us in the real world. Thanks to 995 00:59:34,716 --> 00:59:37,636 Speaker 1: Mais Mitchell for coming through to talk about Haiti Sound. 996 00:59:38,396 --> 00:59:40,476 Speaker 1: You can hear a new album and a playlist of 997 00:59:40,476 --> 00:59:44,156 Speaker 1: other songs at broken Record podcast dot com. Be sure 998 00:59:44,156 --> 00:59:46,636 Speaker 1: to subscribe to our YouTube channel at YouTube dot com 999 00:59:46,676 --> 00:59:49,796 Speaker 1: slash broken Record Podcast. We can find all of our 1000 00:59:49,836 --> 00:59:53,956 Speaker 1: new episodes. You can follow us on Twitter at broken Record. 1001 00:59:54,596 --> 00:59:58,076 Speaker 1: Broken Record is produced with help from Leah Rose, Jason Gambrel, 1002 00:59:58,396 --> 01:00:03,396 Speaker 1: Ben Holliday, Eric Sandler, Jennifer Sanchez, our editor Sophie Crane. 1003 01:00:03,756 --> 01:00:07,996 Speaker 1: Our executive producer is Neia LaBelle. Broken Record is a 1004 01:00:08,036 --> 01:00:11,516 Speaker 1: production of push Industries. If you love this show and 1005 01:00:11,636 --> 01:00:16,156 Speaker 1: others from Pushkin, consider subscribing to Pushkin Plus. Pushkin Plus 1006 01:00:16,236 --> 01:00:19,956 Speaker 1: is a podcast subscription that offers bonus content an uninterrupted 1007 01:00:19,996 --> 01:00:23,236 Speaker 1: ad free listening for four ninety nine a month. Look 1008 01:00:23,236 --> 01:00:27,116 Speaker 1: for Pushkin Plus on Apple Podcasts, subscriptions, and if you 1009 01:00:27,196 --> 01:00:29,676 Speaker 1: like our show, please remember to share, rate, and review 1010 01:00:29,756 --> 01:00:33,036 Speaker 1: us on your podcast app Our theme musics by Kenny 1011 01:00:33,076 --> 01:00:34,956 Speaker 1: beats On Justin Richmond