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Speaker 1: Merry Christmas, Joel, Happy Christmas. Map.

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Speaker 2: So did your kids enjoy the Nintendo Switch that you

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Speaker 2: gifted them?

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Speaker 1: I hope, so I don't know recording the centro before

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Speaker 1: I give it to them, So I'm curious what your

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Speaker 1: thoughts are here. Actually, did you.

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Speaker 2: Have any pushback from your wife about getting the kids

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Speaker 2: a video game console?

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Speaker 1: So it was something we had to talk about, right

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Speaker 1: because I.

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Speaker 2: Want you to defend the Nintendo Switch, So full disclosure,

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Speaker 2: this is something that you and I that we both

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Speaker 2: gifted our kids that we thought would be a ton

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Speaker 2: of fun. But yeah, I've received a little bit of pushback,

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Speaker 2: so yeah, similar, But I think what we came to

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Speaker 2: the conclusion of was one the pushback was against too

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Speaker 2: much screen time and we want to prevent screen time overload,

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Speaker 2: and so well, if we have a video game system,

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Speaker 2: doesn't that mean we're just gonna watch more screens?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, well, no, I think we can

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Speaker 1: still keep it under wraps. But instead of watching stupid stuff,

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Speaker 1: it's going to be interactive gaming with each other. So

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Speaker 1: it's actually more like together time but without being more

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Speaker 1: screen time.

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Speaker 2: And the other thing is so you're swapping the screen

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Speaker 2: time for like from purely consumed content on the screen

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Speaker 2: to actually engaging with.

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Speaker 1: It a little, right, I get more fan like I'll

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Speaker 1: play Mario Kart with them. I'll kick their butts, but

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Speaker 1: I'll play with them.

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Speaker 2: I totally agree, because in a similar way, I don't

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Speaker 2: see it all that different than board games, because it

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Speaker 2: all comes down to the type of games that you're playing.

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Speaker 2: Board games are better, but well, I mean, yeah, you

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Speaker 2: could make an argument.

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Speaker 1: That they're better use your brains in a different way,

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Speaker 1: in different ways, maybe not as good like hand, eye coordination, motor.

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Speaker 2: Skills, but but you like Still there's a difference in

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Speaker 2: the types of games that you're playing. It's one thing

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Speaker 2: if you are on your computer all alone, you're playing

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Speaker 2: World of Warcraft down in the basement solo. There's a

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Speaker 2: big difference between that and the memories I have as

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Speaker 2: a kid growing up playing En sixty four, for playing

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Speaker 2: Mario Kart, playing GoldenEye or WWF we would always or

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Speaker 2: I don't know, maybe it's WCW, I don't know, but

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Speaker 2: the games where you are playing with your friends reinforces

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Speaker 2: some friendships and community and just some of the similar

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Speaker 2: kind of gameplay that you get, not unlike a board game.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd get together with my buddies and play Halo

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Speaker 1: back in the day and it was, oh, you're a

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Speaker 1: Halo kid. Had a great time. But yeah, I'm not

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Speaker 1: a huge video gamer, so I'm hoping we I believe

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Speaker 1: we can keep this under control. The other thing, the

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Speaker 1: other selling point was less clutter like. And the thing

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Speaker 1: is you get, dude, is true gifts upon gifts. It's

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Speaker 1: just taking up space in the house. And then you

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Speaker 1: kind of start to feel like, I don't know, man,

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Speaker 1: do we need more square footage or.

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Speaker 2: This is like a high impact gift for all the kids,

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Speaker 2: something that they can all play together. I totally agree.

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Speaker 2: And I just thought of something else that you said.

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Speaker 2: You're talking about the hand eye coordination thing. Maybe some

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Speaker 2: folks might be thinking of, oh, yeah, I heard about

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Speaker 2: that study of the surgeons who make fewer errors the

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Speaker 2: surgeons who game. Have you heard about the study it

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Speaker 2: made the round? That makes sense to me, It intuitively

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Speaker 2: makes sense, But it's actually a really crappy study, right,

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Speaker 2: It's not like the best what is it like the

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Speaker 2: double blind kind of experiments and tests or whatever, where

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Speaker 2: there's at least two thousand people Like that's typically the

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Speaker 2: magic number of having enough participants within a survey or

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Speaker 2: research project. This was like a survey of like thirty

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Speaker 2: surgeons at a singular hospital. You know, rand You can't

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Speaker 2: base all your decisions saying that, like, oh, my kids

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Speaker 2: are going to be better at that life, at being

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Speaker 2: a surgeon, not being a ny doctor because they played

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Speaker 2: I don't know, video games.

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Speaker 1: Causation or correlation. You might say, well, the world's Richest

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Speaker 1: Man is apparently like the number one player of Diablo.

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Speaker 1: It's fairly incredible that game, And I'm like, how do

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Speaker 1: you have the time to do all those things? But Matt,

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Speaker 1: this episode is not about video games.

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Speaker 2: It's about all the ways that video games and all

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Speaker 2: the other presents that you may or may not have

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Speaker 2: gotten kind of maybe leave you feeling a little empty inside.

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Speaker 1: Dude. They always do, like truly, it's the whole Christmas

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Speaker 1: season is lovely, and sometimes the biggest letdown can be

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Speaker 1: Christmas morning and you've opened all the presents, you're like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't get the thing I wanted to or the

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Speaker 1: thing I got maybe it didn't hold up to my expectations,

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Speaker 1: and so not to be a Debbie downer on Christmas morning,

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Speaker 1: but please check out this bestI episode about pursuing happiness

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Speaker 1: in the ways that truly matter. Welcome to Hod of Money.

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Speaker 1: I'm Joeled, I am Matt, and today we're discussing pursuing

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Speaker 1: happiness in all the wrong ways.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, Jiel, you know, it's not that there are folks

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Speaker 2: out there who aren't pursuing happiness.

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Speaker 1: They're doing it the way that they think that they should.

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Speaker 1: They're just looking in all the wrong places.

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Speaker 2: And when some people are going about it in all

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Speaker 2: the wrong ways, pursuing like actual like their goal, how

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Speaker 2: can I be happier?

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Speaker 1: Which is typically the wrong question to ask.

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Speaker 2: If you want to be happy, That is true, I mean,

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Speaker 2: although I mean that is exactly what we're talking about.

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Speaker 2: But we're going to talk about happiness in a more

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Speaker 2: lasting and in a more fulfilling kind of way. That's

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Speaker 2: what we're going to be talking about today. And also

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Speaker 2: we are going to talk about money, because money certainly

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Speaker 2: plays an important role when it comes to our pursuit

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Speaker 2: of happiness. But okay, so real quick before we get

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Speaker 2: into it, Joel. So, the neighborhood that we move to

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Speaker 2: is great, you know, we like it there. There are

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Speaker 2: a lot of kids, running around, which is also a

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Speaker 2: great thing. It's a lot of fun to see the kids,

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Speaker 2: you know, running around playing. This also means that there

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Speaker 2: are a lot of kids selling stuff. There's a lot

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Speaker 2: of entrepreneurial kids in your hood, like literally going door

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Speaker 2: to door and being like, hey, would you like to

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Speaker 2: buy some of whatever that They made, some bracelets as

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Speaker 2: well as different stands that are set up along the street,

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Speaker 2: that kind of thing.

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Speaker 1: And there were some.

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Speaker 2: Neighborhood kids and they had set up like a holiday

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Speaker 2: treats table or stands. It sounds nice, sounds festive, right.

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Speaker 2: They were selling hot chocolate for three dollars a cup,

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Speaker 2: what along with like candy canes and stuff like what

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Speaker 2: is this Starbucks?

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Speaker 1: I'm all for entrepreneurship here, but that's how three dollars

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Speaker 1: a cup. It's a lot of money. It kind of

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Speaker 1: blew me away. And Kate really loved the kids to participate.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and we do, or I'll say that Kate does,

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Speaker 2: because she went ahead and purchased a single cup.

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Speaker 1: You were over there, arms crossed, well, grinchy frown, which

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Speaker 1: I was.

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Speaker 2: You know, they had the hot chocolate. When I came

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Speaker 2: home from work and they were explaining they're like, oh, hey,

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Speaker 2: we got this, And I was like, oh yeah, how

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Speaker 2: much were they charged? And she told me I couldn't

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Speaker 2: believe it, and so like what I told her, I

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Speaker 2: was like, why didn't you negotiate? Because I felt like

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Speaker 2: this was a perfect opportunity to teach him another lesson. Well,

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Speaker 2: I mean, just to talk about it a little bit

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Speaker 2: and not just be like okay, whatever you say, but

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Speaker 2: literally to push back a little bit, and you don't

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Speaker 2: have to be a jerk about it, right, Like you

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Speaker 2: can be like, oh, man, three dollars, that's a really

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Speaker 2: expensive cup of hot chocolate.

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Speaker 1: How about I'd like to retire Sunday kids.

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Speaker 2: How about three cups for five dollars?

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Speaker 1: Or or even just.

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Speaker 2: Been like okay, what about how about one dollar? Just

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Speaker 2: to start the conversation. I think there's a way that

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Speaker 2: you can have that conversation. But Kate kind of like

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Speaker 2: rolled her eyes at me and just like, of course,

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Speaker 2: this is what you would say. But do I mean,

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Speaker 2: what would you have done in that situation. Do you

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Speaker 2: feel like that that's frugal or is that a cheap

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Speaker 2: move to negotiate?

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Speaker 1: What's from patented reaction to you? Now, by the way,

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Speaker 1: it's just eyes roll, which I get the eye roll,

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Speaker 1: But yeah, what's your take though, I think it's okay

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Speaker 1: to be like, hey, Ganz, what if we did yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: three for six bucks or something like that, like, well,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna go for volume here. You guys want to

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Speaker 1: be the costco of hot chocolate. That's how you got

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Speaker 1: a roll. And but yeah, I mean you probably there there.

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Speaker 1: It depends on how much hard work they put into

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Speaker 1: it and stuff like that. And if there's like a

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Speaker 1: peppermint stick coming out of it and all that jazz,

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Speaker 1: it's like it's I would just pay them the money

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Speaker 1: if you're interested, or keep walking if you're not.

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Speaker 2: Maybe I wasn't there to experience all the decor that

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Speaker 2: they poured, Like yeah, maybe I just pictured a table

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Speaker 2: with like some hot chocolate that's not so hot. But

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Speaker 2: it just to me seemed like a lesson, like not

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Speaker 2: only for like those kids to learn how to talk

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Speaker 2: to an adult about the price of something, but even

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Speaker 2: for our kids, right like for them to witness a

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Speaker 2: little bit of negotiation, for them to understand the value.

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Speaker 1: Of a dollar.

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Speaker 2: I felt that that was a massive opportunity for them

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Speaker 2: just to learn firsthand, like a real life interaction, and

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Speaker 2: so I don't know.

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Speaker 1: I think there's a way to do it as long as.

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Speaker 2: You're not a jerk about it, right, Like I'm not

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Speaker 2: talking about being all, you know, Scrooge like and being

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Speaker 2: like are you kidding and like overturning the table workhouses. Uh.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, No, I think I want to incentivize young entrepreneurship too,

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Speaker 1: And I think if it gets kids excited, I'm willing

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Speaker 1: to fork over extra money if even if it feels

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Speaker 1: like it's overcharging, because man, what a good experience. The

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Speaker 1: negotiation can be a good experience too, if you're doing

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Speaker 1: it in a lighthearted and friendly way. But that was

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Speaker 1: my take. Yeah, but I also think that paying the money,

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Speaker 1: buying the hot chocolate buying supporting these kids in their

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Speaker 1: little entrepreneurs to encourage them, for sure, yeah, is good

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Speaker 1: And you don't wanted to flate them by being like, well, guys,

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Speaker 1: did you miss them pricing class? That was second grade place.

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Speaker 2: Went down last month? But yeah, did you miss the numbers?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I guess I just worry that we're over encouraging these

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Speaker 2: kids because we also bought some expensive bracelets last like

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Speaker 2: a few months ago as well, and I don't know, like,

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Speaker 2: maybe they keep coming back to.

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Speaker 1: The well, and they keep coming to your house for

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Speaker 1: some reason because you keep buying them. Everyone else knows

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Speaker 1: to say, no, that's sucker written across our forehead except

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Speaker 1: for you. All right, Well, I like it, and if

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Speaker 1: you don't have the money to pay for it, then

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Speaker 1: they don't. But either way, encouraging kids in these pursuits

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Speaker 1: is a good thing. That should be the bigger lesson. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and if they're your kids, encourage them to do the

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Speaker 1: same and steal your neighbor's money and so they can

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Speaker 1: buy their own stuff. It's just one giant cycle, right,

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Speaker 1: or at least on yeah, exactly. All right, let's mention

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Speaker 1: the beer we're having on the episode today. This one

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Speaker 1: is called Mile High Salute. It is a Chicha sour,

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Speaker 1: which I've never heard of this style before. But we

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Speaker 1: will give our thoughts on this one at the end

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Speaker 1: of the episode. This one is by Mutation, brewing right

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Speaker 1: around the corner from us where we live. But Matt,

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Speaker 1: let's get onto it. Let's move on to the topic

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Speaker 1: at hand, pursuing happiness in all the wrong ways, And

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Speaker 1: of course, we hope all of our listeners had a

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Speaker 1: great Christmas. This is our second episodes since Christmas, so

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Speaker 1: we hope it was a good one for everyone that

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Speaker 1: was super enjoyable.

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Speaker 2: We're still very much in the holiday spirit, of course, yes,

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Speaker 2: hopefully you are as well.

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Speaker 1: Well. It's it's interesting to me when we were thinking

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Speaker 1: of this episode, it made me think of kind of

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Speaker 1: the joy that our kids have on their faces Christmas

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Speaker 1: morning when they run down copious presence under the tree,

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Speaker 1: and it was like a joy like they were beaming, right,

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Speaker 1: and so thrilled to get to open these presents, to

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Speaker 1: get to tear them to shred and see what was inside.

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Speaker 1: But that joy that they have at seven am, right

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Speaker 1: when they're so thrilled to open up everything under the tree,

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Speaker 1: it doesn't look the same later in the day, right,

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Speaker 1: And I think that's a story that's the same thing

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Speaker 1: for adults and kids alike. There's frequently like a post

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Speaker 1: present letdown that almost all of us experience. You kind

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Speaker 1: of come down from that high for sure. Either there

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Speaker 1: was something that we wanted that we didn't get, or

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Speaker 1: the gifts that we did receive they're not quite as

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Speaker 1: good as they looked in TV, or there's some assembly

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Speaker 1: required and wait a second, we forgot the battery. There

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Speaker 1: were any batteries of the package? Exactly? Okay, so very small,

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Speaker 1: quick tangent.

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Speaker 2: Did you ever have a present as a kid that

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Speaker 2: you did not receive that you had all your.

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Speaker 1: Christmas hopes pinned too? I'm sure I did. Try for me.

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Speaker 2: It was the classic Hungry Hungry Hippos. I think we

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Speaker 2: may have talked.

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Speaker 1: About this on the shoard. Is this son familiar? Yeah?

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Speaker 1: I complete.

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Speaker 2: I totally had my heart set on that game because

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Speaker 2: the commercials were awesome. See those kids mash those levers

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Speaker 2: of the Hippos, gobble up all those marbles.

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Speaker 1: But I don't get it.

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Speaker 2: And that's all my parents remember from that Christmas with

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Speaker 2: that all your disappointment.

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Speaker 1: But there's no hungry Hungry hippen. Well it is. It's

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Speaker 1: a good game, but it's not as good as it

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Speaker 1: looks on the commercial ste right, No, exactly, And it's

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Speaker 1: that disappointment, yes, and in that vein right, the anticipation

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Speaker 1: of Christmas morning is almost always better than the payoff.

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Speaker 1: And something close to forty percent of the world's toys

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Speaker 1: are owned by three percent of the world's population, which

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Speaker 1: is American children, and so like, are we happier? Are

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Speaker 1: our kids happier because that's the case because they get

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Speaker 1: this massive amount of all the toys that are created

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Speaker 1: in the world. No, I would say, not necessarily, And

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Speaker 1: in fact, the opposite is often true. Right, The same

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Speaker 1: is often the case though when it comes to amassing

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Speaker 1: more wealth, there's this there's a point of diminishing returns.

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Speaker 1: And today on the show, we're going to talk about

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Speaker 1: how happiness levels are affected by your financial standing and

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Speaker 1: how they aren't. Yeah, deep dive on happiness today on HTM.

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Speaker 1: That's right.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course everyone probably already knows this, but

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Speaker 2: all the money in the world is not going to

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Speaker 2: make you happy. Just like getting every single present on

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Speaker 2: your list, how that likely only brought you a fleeting

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Speaker 2: sense of joy. It doesn't last all that long. And

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Speaker 2: so ultimately, what it's going to take is some introspection.

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Speaker 2: It's going to take some self examination to fully understand

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Speaker 2: what it is that will bring you fulfillment and happiness,

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Speaker 2: not just more money. And it might be, honestly, it

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Speaker 2: might be a touch ironic coming from the guys. You

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Speaker 2: talk about money three times a week, right, like earning,

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Speaker 2: earning money, saving, investing money, these are all great things,

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Speaker 2: but it's also crucial to put money in its proper place.

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Speaker 2: And on the surface, this is probably something that you

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Speaker 2: already know, right, but do you have a deeper understanding

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Speaker 2: of it? You might have the head knowledge, but do

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Speaker 2: you have the richer understanding that comes from experiencing it

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Speaker 2: and living it out. Because I think while many of

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Speaker 2: us would say, yeah, like, I totally agree with that statement, right, like,

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Speaker 2: more money, it's not going to make me happier, Well,

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Speaker 2: we actually end up living our lives in ways that

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Speaker 2: contradict that statement. And the reality is that it's often

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Speaker 2: not just the pursuit of money that we think will

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Speaker 2: make us happy, but it's the things that money can

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Speaker 2: afford us. I just mentioned Scrooge, but you know changes

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Speaker 2: are You probably saw some version of the Dickens classic

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Speaker 2: at Christmas Carol. There's a lot of a lot of

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Speaker 2: bad ones, bad ones. But I wonder if a lot

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Speaker 2: of folks I thought about the I thought about this

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Speaker 2: last time I watched it, because like Scrooge was obsessed

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Speaker 2: with money, right, just like that the thing in and

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Speaker 2: of itself, And I think today oftentimes we are drawn

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Speaker 2: not to money itself, but the things that money can

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Speaker 2: afford us, that the things that money can can buy us,

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Speaker 2: and we think that it almost feels unrelatable to picture

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Speaker 2: somebody who's just like stacking wads of cash.

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Speaker 1: Or oh that's silly, buy a lambell with it.

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Speaker 2: Instead, exactly is but they didn't have those kind of

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Speaker 2: things wait way back then.

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Speaker 1: So you're right, Yeah, it's it's the it's the thinking

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Speaker 1: that shopping in session, we've just gotten more sophisticated.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, with how it is that we are misled, right, Like,

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Speaker 2: it's sneaky, it's pernicious, But we're often tricked into thinking

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Speaker 2: that there's just a variety of things that'll.

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Speaker 1: Make us happy. It's a false hope.

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Speaker 2: And so we're gonna dive into a lot of some

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Speaker 2: of those different things that we think don't actually bring

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Speaker 2: about happiness, and we'll make sure to end the episode

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Speaker 2: talking about the right way to pursue happiness as well.

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Speaker 1: For sure, and kind of how we think about money

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Speaker 1: has a lot to do with it. But let's get

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Speaker 1: into it. Let's talk about maybe what about like an

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Speaker 1: unexpected windfall, Matt, Like, how happy would it make you?

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Speaker 1: Do you think if you randomly had ten thousand dollars

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Speaker 1: deposited into your account tomorrow, no questions asked, that you

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Speaker 1: could put towards a lambo, no strings attached, that you

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Speaker 1: could put towards a lambar or whatever you wanted, Like,

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Speaker 1: do you think that would move the needle for you? Yeah?

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Speaker 2: I mean if you said you want ten thousand bucks,

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Speaker 2: it'd be like sure, You'd be like.

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Speaker 1: What, I'll take it. It's like a play a monopoly

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Speaker 1: and it's like bank er in your favor, collective hundred

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Speaker 1: dollars or something like that, and you're like, what amazing

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Speaker 1: like to get You're all about it just money gifted

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Speaker 1: to you in that way. It would put a smile

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Speaker 1: on your face. I think it would put a smile

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Speaker 1: on mine as well. Well. The thing is it would,

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Speaker 1: but it wouldn't do it for very long. And that's

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Speaker 1: because the the Ted organization of Ted Talk Fame ran

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Speaker 1: an experiment based on ten thousand dollars donations to folks

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Speaker 1: who lived in low income countries and others who lived

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Speaker 1: in high income locations. And what did they find, Matt Well,

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Speaker 1: they found that the folks who had lower salaries the

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Speaker 1: ones in countries like Brazil, Indonesia, and Kenya, gained a

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Speaker 1: lot more happiness than folks who lived in rinch countries.

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Speaker 1: Was their happiness was even more long lasting, and that's

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Speaker 1: not terribly shocking. If you're on the earlier side of

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Speaker 1: your wealth building journey, a ten thousand dollars lump sum

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Speaker 1: could help jumpstart your progress a whole lot, helping you

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Speaker 1: like acts a big chunk of student loans that have

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Speaker 1: been hanging out in your life, or allowing you to

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Speaker 1: max out a roth ira for the first time ever.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that's been a goal for years, and it's like, boom,

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Speaker 1: this lump sum money fell into my lap. Now I

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Speaker 1: can do it in one fell swoop. That allows you

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Speaker 1: to get the compounding return started earlier than most folks

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Speaker 1: get to, which of course is a big win. But

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Speaker 1: for folks who are further along in their wealth building journey,

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Speaker 1: it's helpful. It's a helpful study to consider because as

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Speaker 1: you move up the money gear, it certainly seems like

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Speaker 1: you should be putting less and less emphasis on your

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Speaker 1: net worth from a happiness standpoint, and so a windfall, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it might be nice, But even a lump sum of

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Speaker 1: cash has diminishing returns rather quickly.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, and it's not like you want to

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Speaker 2: start making bad money decisions on purpose to curb the

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Speaker 2: growth of your money. Like it's get an oral and

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Speaker 2: k loan, it's right, giving it all the way, let

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Speaker 2: me get hit with that ten percent penalty. Right, It's

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Speaker 2: more about just rethinking the role of money in your life.

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Speaker 2: And a Wharton study actually from last year that gave

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Speaker 2: some helpful new insights because they found that a higher

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Speaker 2: income is linked to increase happiness, but largely because of

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Speaker 2: the increased control that you then have over everyday decisions

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Speaker 2: in your life. Basically just allows for greater autonomy. And

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Speaker 2: so it seems to me that more money is a

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Speaker 2: better predictor of maybe emotions than of actual happiness, because obviously,

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Speaker 2: when you don't have enough money, like it's hard not

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Speaker 2: to like acutely feel that need, right if you can't

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Speaker 2: pay the bills. But like, basically money it helps solve

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Speaker 2: quite a few problems for folks in that lower income space,

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Speaker 2: at least until a certain point. Traditionally that's that seventy

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Speaker 2: five thousand dollars mark by Nobel researchers and economists Danial Conoman.

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Speaker 1: Thanks to inflation, it might be more like eighty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars now maybe ninety. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: But it's also important to note though, that we are

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Speaker 2: living in the richest country in the history of the world,

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Speaker 2: and it's easy to see that it's often just a

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Speaker 2: band aid and not a permanent fix for many folks.

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Speaker 2: And what's needed in reality is just a deeper look

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Speaker 2: not only at their money, but how it is they

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Speaker 2: pursue other things in life, and how it is that

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Speaker 2: they spend their time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, And how do we know that we're so rich? Well,

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Speaker 1: statistics for one, but the numbers just just prove it,

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Speaker 1: right when look at the US is very very rich, exactly. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: When you look at overall net worth and incomes and opportunity,

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Speaker 1: we are country ranks super high on so many different metrics,

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Speaker 1: and so we definitely have an abundance of material wealth

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Speaker 1: in this country. The toy stat I referenced earlier is

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Speaker 1: just another pointer the fact that we have tons of

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Speaker 1: money right floating around in this country. Forty percent of

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Speaker 1: the world's toys to three percent of the world's population.

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Speaker 1: There's a big discrepancy there. But the self care trend,

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Speaker 1: I would say, gives us another window into just how

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Speaker 1: prosperous we've become, and we're hoping that the Matt and

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Speaker 1: I at least, we're hoping that the self care trend

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Speaker 1: calms down a little bit, because it's often it's not

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Speaker 1: making us happier and it's costing us big money. At

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Speaker 1: the same time. There's a recent episode actually of the

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Speaker 1: Money with Katie podcast We Think She's Awesome. She talked

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Speaker 1: about how spending less on self care and taking less

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Speaker 1: time to pursue a beauty regimen actually helped her to

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Speaker 1: feel more empowered, which I thought was cool. I appreciated

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Speaker 1: her thoughts on that, and then at the same time

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Speaker 1: I read an article in Vox which came to a

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Speaker 1: similar conclusion. The article was titled I used all the

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Speaker 1: best stuff for a week and it nearly broke me.

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Speaker 1: And what this author, what she seemed to detail was

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Speaker 1: an increased event towards perfectionism. We would call it the

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Speaker 1: Didderro effect, right where everything else around you starts to

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Speaker 1: look a little shabby in line of some of these

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00:19:02,240 --> 00:19:04,679
Speaker 1: new items you've brought into your life. And so it

435
00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,800
Speaker 1: was interesting to see Matt that her experiment of having

436
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:12,480
Speaker 1: the nicest, newest, coolest, instagram worthy stuff for a month

437
00:19:12,520 --> 00:19:16,600
Speaker 1: actually led her to less happiness and worse social relationships.

438
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:18,840
Speaker 1: And I think that's a real problem that we face

439
00:19:19,040 --> 00:19:21,280
Speaker 1: when we try to make ourselves feel better through retail

440
00:19:21,359 --> 00:19:24,439
Speaker 1: therapy and to stepped up self care regimen, right, that

441
00:19:24,880 --> 00:19:27,600
Speaker 1: we put too much of a focus on things, less

442
00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:29,840
Speaker 1: of a focus on the things that actually matter, and

443
00:19:30,240 --> 00:19:32,359
Speaker 1: that's in large part where we fall short.

444
00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:34,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, and there's nothing wrong with like a

445
00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,760
Speaker 2: nice bottle of face serum.

446
00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,480
Speaker 1: All right from the man himself with oils or something.

447
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,520
Speaker 2: Like that, but it can easily become a slippery slip, right, like,

448
00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,760
Speaker 2: because first it's beauty products, it's self care. Next it's

449
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,639
Speaker 2: upgrading your professional wardrobe, you know, but with the excuse

450
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:50,520
Speaker 2: that maybe you're doing it for your career, this is

451
00:19:50,560 --> 00:19:54,280
Speaker 2: an investment, or you're doing it just because you deserve it.

452
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,360
Speaker 2: Like we would say that self care that will actually

453
00:19:57,359 --> 00:19:59,520
Speaker 2: translate to higher levels of wellbeing is going to be

454
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,840
Speaker 2: less consumption based, like, for instance, a walk in the

455
00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:06,760
Speaker 2: woods to de stress. A proper amount of sleep sounds

456
00:20:06,800 --> 00:20:08,600
Speaker 2: like maybe the best kind.

457
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:10,480
Speaker 1: Of self care that's out there, instead of staying up

458
00:20:10,520 --> 00:20:14,240
Speaker 1: to midnight scrolling Instagram to the bed on time, that.

459
00:20:14,359 --> 00:20:17,040
Speaker 2: Direct to consumer model that these companies have gotten so

460
00:20:17,080 --> 00:20:20,720
Speaker 2: good at. But these more like less money focus, less

461
00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:24,119
Speaker 2: consumption based ways to increase your well being are going

462
00:20:24,160 --> 00:20:25,879
Speaker 2: to move the needle a whole lot more than a

463
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:29,200
Speaker 2: new purse or fancy new bed sheets or something like that,

464
00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:32,120
Speaker 2: because like many Americans have just come to buy into

465
00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:34,720
Speaker 2: the self care ethic to the point that's just costing

466
00:20:34,760 --> 00:20:37,160
Speaker 2: the money that they don't have, and it's not doing

467
00:20:37,240 --> 00:20:39,640
Speaker 2: much on the on the happiness front either, and many

468
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,720
Speaker 2: times it's creating the opposite effect, right, Like remember that

469
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,479
Speaker 2: control an autonomy point from earlier on from that study,

470
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:48,840
Speaker 2: the more money you spend on self care, the more

471
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:51,439
Speaker 2: your bank account is going to shrink, and with that,

472
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,439
Speaker 2: your autonomy is shrinking as well. And so it's something

473
00:20:54,520 --> 00:20:56,160
Speaker 2: that's important to keep in mind. We think that we're

474
00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,760
Speaker 2: purchasing happiness, but instead we're purchasing our way further into debt.

475
00:20:59,840 --> 00:21:03,359
Speaker 1: And you're also creating a habit that's almost insatiable because

476
00:21:03,359 --> 00:21:05,320
Speaker 1: there is no end to the lust for more goods

477
00:21:05,359 --> 00:21:07,480
Speaker 1: or more stuff. And so yeah, if you kind of

478
00:21:07,520 --> 00:21:11,120
Speaker 1: start to go down this path, you'll find that it's

479
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,840
Speaker 1: really hard to recognize when you're going overboard. Yeah, and

480
00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,800
Speaker 1: it's hard to see that. Wait a second, it feels

481
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:20,399
Speaker 1: like I'm getting momentary bursts of happiness as I pursue

482
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:23,320
Speaker 1: this route, but in the end you're actually left unhappier.

483
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,080
Speaker 1: But it's just hard to point a finger on it,

484
00:21:25,200 --> 00:21:27,040
Speaker 1: and so you keep going down it until you've gone

485
00:21:27,200 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: quite a way. Yeah, and you have left some of

486
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,800
Speaker 1: your autonomy kind of behind because you don't have as

487
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,720
Speaker 1: much financial breathing room. We're also not saying, by the way,

488
00:21:35,720 --> 00:21:38,640
Speaker 1: that our bodies don't matter, and that we would say sure,

489
00:21:38,720 --> 00:21:40,600
Speaker 1: you know, taking time to work out as clutch that

490
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:42,960
Speaker 1: self care you mentioned, it's not the worst thing, Matt

491
00:21:43,040 --> 00:21:45,399
Speaker 1: to buy a bottle of face serum if that's your thing.

492
00:21:45,440 --> 00:21:47,920
Speaker 1: I don't really ever have any sort of facial regimen.

493
00:21:48,040 --> 00:21:49,840
Speaker 1: My wife says I could probably adopt one, but I

494
00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:51,399
Speaker 1: don't even know what that means or looks like. I

495
00:21:51,680 --> 00:21:52,240
Speaker 1: don't either.

496
00:21:52,440 --> 00:21:54,560
Speaker 2: Earlier this year, though, I started wearing a very small

497
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,280
Speaker 2: amount of Colonne though, because I was just like, you

498
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,800
Speaker 2: know what, I want to have a smell, and so

499
00:21:57,800 --> 00:21:58,439
Speaker 2: that's something I do.

500
00:21:58,520 --> 00:21:58,600
Speaker 1: Know.

501
00:21:58,680 --> 00:22:01,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's okay to splurge just a little bit, you know,

502
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:03,080
Speaker 2: the brute smells good on you.

503
00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,440
Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of rute.

504
00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:09,600
Speaker 2: There's something about smelling like your grandpa that I feel

505
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,200
Speaker 2: like resonates with millennial.

506
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:13,879
Speaker 1: Unless you get it for like three ninety nine. Yes, exactly.

507
00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:16,240
Speaker 1: There's nothing wrong with like getting massage every once in

508
00:22:16,280 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: a while, or trying to eat healthier and spending more

509
00:22:18,800 --> 00:22:22,520
Speaker 1: money on more expensive organic foods things like that. That's totally fine.

510
00:22:22,560 --> 00:22:24,919
Speaker 1: Taking care of yourself is good. Like we want to

511
00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,840
Speaker 1: push you in that direction, but just don't buy into

512
00:22:27,920 --> 00:22:32,800
Speaker 1: the trecho self self care mantra that subtly insinuates that

513
00:22:32,840 --> 00:22:35,440
Speaker 1: by purchasing fancier products, you're going to be a better

514
00:22:35,560 --> 00:22:38,400
Speaker 1: you. You're going to be a happiness happier person. Your happiness

515
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:41,119
Speaker 1: levels they're going to go off the charts. That that

516
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:45,720
Speaker 1: is just marketing, and it's marketing. That sounds good, right.

517
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,360
Speaker 1: We want to buy into it because we want that feeling.

518
00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:50,720
Speaker 1: But the truth is the feeling is fleeting, and it

519
00:22:50,800 --> 00:22:55,320
Speaker 1: actually often ends up leading to lower levels of overall happiness.

520
00:22:55,560 --> 00:22:58,680
Speaker 1: So how else, maybe are we duped by some of

521
00:22:58,720 --> 00:23:01,119
Speaker 1: these marketing techniques? How how else are we led to

522
00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:04,040
Speaker 1: consider buying happiness in our lives? Well, there are a

523
00:23:04,040 --> 00:23:06,960
Speaker 1: couple major ways in which we fork over a lot

524
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,280
Speaker 1: of money and in the thought, in the hope that

525
00:23:10,440 --> 00:23:12,399
Speaker 1: it's going to make us happier. Matt, Let's detail a

526
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,520
Speaker 1: couple more and we'll get to those right after this.

527
00:23:23,840 --> 00:23:26,119
Speaker 2: All right, man, we are back from the break and dude,

528
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 2: we were just talking about how self care, how it's

529
00:23:28,359 --> 00:23:32,159
Speaker 2: kind of having its moment, right, but essentially, like in reality,

530
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,879
Speaker 2: it's just consumerism, right, It's just a new spin on

531
00:23:34,960 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 2: an old story. But continuing this thread of buying stuff

532
00:23:39,160 --> 00:23:42,720
Speaker 2: home ownership that might be the ultimate form of like

533
00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,760
Speaker 2: potentially mindless consumption.

534
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:45,719
Speaker 1: Just going straight to the sacred count.

535
00:23:45,560 --> 00:23:48,240
Speaker 2: And it's like, yeah, I mean I am because like

536
00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:50,480
Speaker 2: a lot of people, they talk about buying a home

537
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,520
Speaker 2: as an investment, but there's a lot less truth to

538
00:23:53,560 --> 00:23:56,080
Speaker 2: it than most people think. In fact is there are

539
00:23:56,119 --> 00:23:58,680
Speaker 2: a lot of folks out there for whom renting makes

540
00:23:58,840 --> 00:24:02,600
Speaker 2: the most sense, but they're still drawn to buying their

541
00:24:02,600 --> 00:24:05,960
Speaker 2: first home like a moth drawn towards a light. And

542
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:08,639
Speaker 2: also because it's just such an emotional purchase. This is

543
00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:11,600
Speaker 2: a category that I think folks they often tend to

544
00:24:11,640 --> 00:24:14,560
Speaker 2: stretch their budget on the term house poor. It was

545
00:24:14,760 --> 00:24:16,960
Speaker 2: invented for a reason. There are a lot of folks

546
00:24:16,960 --> 00:24:20,080
Speaker 2: who are house poor. But does that new home actually

547
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:23,040
Speaker 2: make us happy? Well, we would argue that not nearly

548
00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,560
Speaker 2: as much as we're hoping it will. A recent study

549
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,359
Speaker 2: found that, similar to the ten thousand dollars cash in

550
00:24:28,359 --> 00:24:30,560
Speaker 2: fusion that you mentioned, Joel Well, buying a new home

551
00:24:30,880 --> 00:24:34,040
Speaker 2: only produces a short term happiness boost. It's likely for

552
00:24:34,119 --> 00:24:37,800
Speaker 2: multiple reasons, but it's also because there are walls to paint,

553
00:24:38,000 --> 00:24:40,880
Speaker 2: there are toilets to fix, right, things like that, taxes

554
00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,200
Speaker 2: to be paid. Maybe you realize that the closing attorney

555
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:47,720
Speaker 2: didn't include waste management and your mortgage, and you're like,

556
00:24:47,760 --> 00:24:49,480
Speaker 2: what we got to pay for trash? Now, how is

557
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:51,639
Speaker 2: that not something that's included in my mortgage?

558
00:24:51,680 --> 00:24:54,000
Speaker 1: Ye, if you're in City of Atlanta, that's that's actually four

559
00:24:54,080 --> 00:24:55,840
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty bucks a year or something like that,

560
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:56,400
Speaker 1: a lot of money.

561
00:24:57,320 --> 00:24:59,480
Speaker 2: And on top of that, if we've overspent, you know

562
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,119
Speaker 2: that more payment, Like it's just hanging over ahead for

563
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 2: the next thirty years, and it's likely only going to

564
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:08,000
Speaker 2: be something that we see increase as the property taxes

565
00:25:08,040 --> 00:25:08,720
Speaker 2: also increased.

566
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:11,920
Speaker 1: Sure, yeah, so it's not that buying a home is bad.

567
00:25:12,040 --> 00:25:14,359
Speaker 1: Of course, right, we Matt, you and I own homes,

568
00:25:14,359 --> 00:25:16,439
Speaker 1: we own rental properties. We're not we own multiple home

569
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,520
Speaker 1: We're not against home ownership. But it's just that we

570
00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:22,600
Speaker 1: have often in our culture, we've inflated this purchase in

571
00:25:22,640 --> 00:25:26,680
Speaker 1: our minds, thinking that we're gonna get long lasting happiness,

572
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,480
Speaker 1: which tends not to materialize, like this home is going

573
00:25:29,520 --> 00:25:31,960
Speaker 1: to make me happy, right, it's but you know what

574
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,000
Speaker 1: is it? They say, Matt, home's where the heart is, right,

575
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: and so it's not just the walls in the structure.

576
00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:39,400
Speaker 1: And this sounds really lame. I'm sorry, but but you're

577
00:25:39,400 --> 00:25:41,960
Speaker 1: gonna quote the Magnetic Zero song. I don't know. I

578
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: don't know if I'm with you. That's true, that's good. Yeah, no,

579
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: there's that people who are inside of it ten years ago,

580
00:25:49,280 --> 00:25:52,920
Speaker 1: I guess. But we just tend to think like, oh man,

581
00:25:53,000 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: this location and this this particular home, this it is

582
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,280
Speaker 1: going to make me happy. And I'm not gonna say

583
00:25:59,320 --> 00:26:03,080
Speaker 1: that I haven't some satisfaction from home ownership. I have,

584
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,280
Speaker 1: but the realities I could have rented a very similar

585
00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:08,639
Speaker 1: home in a similar location, gotten a lot of the

586
00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:12,000
Speaker 1: same vibes, and so we just we over rank how

587
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: happy it's going to make us. And the folks that

588
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: ran that study you mentioned, Matt, they boiled it down

589
00:26:17,240 --> 00:26:21,160
Speaker 1: to this, They said, we aren't good at predicting what

590
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:23,600
Speaker 1: will make us happy. And I thought that was profound

591
00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,359
Speaker 1: for all a bunch of dummies economists making writing a

592
00:26:26,359 --> 00:26:29,399
Speaker 1: white paper. But for many millennials who are still saving

593
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,600
Speaker 1: up for a down payment, they put home ownership on

594
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,960
Speaker 1: this pedestal, and I think they think it's going to

595
00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:37,440
Speaker 1: solve some of their problems, right, or maybe a lot

596
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:40,040
Speaker 1: of their problems, that that once I get this thing,

597
00:26:40,480 --> 00:26:42,600
Speaker 1: it's going to do something that nothing else could do

598
00:26:42,640 --> 00:26:45,360
Speaker 1: for me. And owning a home can be a great

599
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:49,560
Speaker 1: thing for individuals, for families, providing something that is I

600
00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:52,280
Speaker 1: will say, more than just a roof of your head. Right,

601
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,320
Speaker 1: Like for many Americans, their home does end up becoming

602
00:26:56,359 --> 00:26:58,760
Speaker 1: one of their largest assets. That's not what we want

603
00:26:58,920 --> 00:27:01,320
Speaker 1: to be the case, but that is the reality for

604
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:02,719
Speaker 1: a lot of folks that if you've phoned a home

605
00:27:02,760 --> 00:27:04,720
Speaker 1: for ten years or something like that, and you just

606
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: like you barely invest in the market because you're banking

607
00:27:08,160 --> 00:27:11,439
Speaker 1: on the fact that your home is appreciating. That's your

608
00:27:11,440 --> 00:27:13,879
Speaker 1: big like that does become your biggest asset because you

609
00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:16,960
Speaker 1: haven't invested enough in other areas. Also, I would say

610
00:27:16,960 --> 00:27:18,560
Speaker 1: it's fun in a lot of ways to own your

611
00:27:18,560 --> 00:27:21,520
Speaker 1: own place, like the customization right that you that you

612
00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,120
Speaker 1: can have like paint, paint the walls whatever color you want.

613
00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:27,560
Speaker 1: There's no landlord to tell you no, no, no, sorry, hot

614
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:30,920
Speaker 1: pinks off limits. There's also no landlord to say, hey,

615
00:27:31,040 --> 00:27:33,680
Speaker 1: actually I'm selling this property. And so you're going to

616
00:27:33,720 --> 00:27:36,480
Speaker 1: need to move anything like that, Like you can stability

617
00:27:36,520 --> 00:27:38,399
Speaker 1: there as long as you can pay that mortgage, you

618
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,199
Speaker 1: can stay. But in no way is it this continual

619
00:27:42,240 --> 00:27:45,560
Speaker 1: happiness producer, And it can actually have the opposite effect

620
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:48,160
Speaker 1: if it becomes a massive drag on your monthly budget.

621
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:50,919
Speaker 1: And so it's important to go into home ownership with

622
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:53,639
Speaker 1: the right mindset. Some of these bigger things that we

623
00:27:53,760 --> 00:27:57,440
Speaker 1: think are financially intelligent and we're banking on the fact

624
00:27:57,480 --> 00:28:01,240
Speaker 1: that they're also going to make us like happier people, well,

625
00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,760
Speaker 1: the reality is often a lot different, and that for

626
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: a lot of folks, home ownership can become more of

627
00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,919
Speaker 1: a financial drag and a happiness drag.

628
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 2: That's right, man. We pin too many of our hopes

629
00:28:11,320 --> 00:28:13,960
Speaker 2: I think on home ownership. And so far we've talked

630
00:28:13,960 --> 00:28:16,640
Speaker 2: about things that you can buy, right, whether it's beauty products,

631
00:28:16,840 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 2: self care items, or services. I guess we've talked about

632
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:23,439
Speaker 2: buying homes. Let's talk about maybe a different arena somewhere

633
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:26,480
Speaker 2: else that we seek to find happiness, and that's in

634
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:29,280
Speaker 2: the work that we perform. And so I'll start this

635
00:28:29,320 --> 00:28:30,720
Speaker 2: out by saying, like, we've got a lot of friends

636
00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:33,119
Speaker 2: in the Fire community, right, which is the financial independence

637
00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:37,439
Speaker 2: retire early community. And it seems that a decent swath

638
00:28:37,480 --> 00:28:40,280
Speaker 2: of those folks that they have a negative view of work, right,

639
00:28:40,360 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 2: like where they're trying to escape the rat race. They're

640
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,360
Speaker 2: trying to escape the nine to five. And really a

641
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:48,400
Speaker 2: large reason why the Fire movement was able to gain steam,

642
00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:50,160
Speaker 2: why they were able to gain traction I think over

643
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,440
Speaker 2: the past decade, was because just because it was a

644
00:28:53,480 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 2: rejection of the achievement based, status pursuing view of work,

645
00:28:57,480 --> 00:29:01,320
Speaker 2: where all your worth is determined your title or by

646
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:03,000
Speaker 2: the letters that come after your name because of the

647
00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:04,160
Speaker 2: education that you've achieved.

648
00:29:04,320 --> 00:29:06,240
Speaker 1: There's a lot of good in that, right, because yes,

649
00:29:06,480 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: it's like who wants to be based their value to

650
00:29:09,480 --> 00:29:12,720
Speaker 1: be based on that mostly or solely exactly.

651
00:29:12,800 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the thing is like that pendulum, it was

652
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,880
Speaker 2: pretty far to one side, right, and so it swung

653
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,480
Speaker 2: all the way over to the other end of the

654
00:29:18,480 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 2: spectrum in an over correction. But of course we like

655
00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,480
Speaker 2: to take a more nuanced approach to the work that

656
00:29:24,520 --> 00:29:26,880
Speaker 2: we perform. And you know, we think that neither the

657
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:31,840
Speaker 2: rejection nor the blind embrace of work will yield us

658
00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:34,880
Speaker 2: the most happiness, right, Like, of course work is important.

659
00:29:34,880 --> 00:29:37,160
Speaker 2: We spend a lot of our waking hours at work,

660
00:29:37,240 --> 00:29:41,480
Speaker 2: so not hating your job would be great. The ability

661
00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 2: to see the value that you're bringing into the world,

662
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,360
Speaker 2: how you're making it a better place. That is an

663
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,520
Speaker 2: important part of a purposeful life for sure. But we

664
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 2: also don't want you to be defined by your job,

665
00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:54,600
Speaker 2: by what it is that you do.

666
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:59,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, But we've also I think we've pushed a popular

667
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:03,520
Speaker 1: culture myth of the fact that your work is supposed

668
00:30:03,520 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: to make you happy and you should enjoy what you

669
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,360
Speaker 1: do every day so your passions. Yeah, that and that

670
00:30:09,480 --> 00:30:12,040
Speaker 1: has I think set up a lot of people for dissatisfaction.

671
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:14,760
Speaker 1: They have thought that they're nine to five should be

672
00:30:14,840 --> 00:30:17,000
Speaker 1: something where it's like I love the people I work

673
00:30:17,040 --> 00:30:20,880
Speaker 1: with and the work I do serves matters, And yeah,

674
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: and I get paid a ton, right, giving me tons

675
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: of free time to do whatever I like and browse

676
00:30:27,320 --> 00:30:29,480
Speaker 1: on Instagram whenever I want to or whatever. But like,

677
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,680
Speaker 1: the truth is that almost nobody has that job, and

678
00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: even for people who enjoy the work they do one,

679
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,120
Speaker 1: it doesn't mean that they naturally gravitated towards towards it

680
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:40,880
Speaker 1: to begin with. There's a lot of people who find

681
00:30:40,920 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 1: themselves in a job and they're like, they find the

682
00:30:42,840 --> 00:30:45,200
Speaker 1: value in it, even if it's not something they intentionally

683
00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 1: sought out. And so it's really interesting to see how

684
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,200
Speaker 1: some people end up massively happy in work that they

685
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,600
Speaker 1: didn't necessarily think was going to make them happy. I

686
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: think so much of it comes down to a mindset,

687
00:30:54,480 --> 00:30:57,520
Speaker 1: and sometimes on top of it, if your work is

688
00:30:58,280 --> 00:31:02,600
Speaker 1: solid and it allows you enough money to pay the

689
00:31:02,600 --> 00:31:04,480
Speaker 1: bills and to have enough free time, like, you don't

690
00:31:04,520 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 1: have to love your job. You can love all the

691
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:09,520
Speaker 1: other stuff outside of your job. But the reality is,

692
00:31:09,560 --> 00:31:12,040
Speaker 1: like with three hundred and thirty million Americans, like, not

693
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:15,040
Speaker 1: every single one of us is going to absolutely love

694
00:31:15,080 --> 00:31:16,840
Speaker 1: what we do every day, And even when you do

695
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: like your job, it doesn't mean that every single day

696
00:31:19,680 --> 00:31:22,200
Speaker 1: is like the best thing ever, right, And Matt, we

697
00:31:22,320 --> 00:31:23,880
Speaker 1: like what we do here. We get to work with

698
00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:25,080
Speaker 1: your best bloody, you get to drink beer, you have

699
00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,640
Speaker 1: to talk about stuff that matters to us. That boo

700
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,000
Speaker 1: hoo hoo. That is a really good thing. And it's

701
00:31:30,000 --> 00:31:32,080
Speaker 1: taken us a lot of years to get to this point.

702
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:34,520
Speaker 1: Even still, that doesn't mean that every single day we

703
00:31:34,560 --> 00:31:36,960
Speaker 1: come in here with a smile on our faces. Maybe

704
00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:39,320
Speaker 1: we should, maybe we should, but like, that's just not

705
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: how it works, because there's business stuff to get done,

706
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,320
Speaker 1: and so not every day is like this walk in

707
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:46,240
Speaker 1: the park, even when you like what you do. And

708
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:47,720
Speaker 1: that's exactly that's important to mention to.

709
00:31:47,800 --> 00:31:49,680
Speaker 2: Yeah, honestly, like the way you're talking about it, it

710
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 2: kind of makes me think of relationships, right, And it's

711
00:31:51,920 --> 00:31:54,640
Speaker 2: easy to fall into love, right, but what that is

712
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: typically is just infatuation. That's not true love. What true

713
00:31:58,680 --> 00:32:00,880
Speaker 2: love is, and committing to a long term relationship is

714
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:04,120
Speaker 2: working hard at something. Of course, you're this is someone

715
00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:06,200
Speaker 2: who you're attracted to, that you're drawn to, that you

716
00:32:06,360 --> 00:32:08,280
Speaker 2: maybe want to spend the rest of your life with.

717
00:32:08,440 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 2: You have a lot in common with hopefully and yeah,

718
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:11,160
Speaker 2: but you enjoy the way.

719
00:32:11,080 --> 00:32:11,600
Speaker 1: Their mind work.

720
00:32:11,680 --> 00:32:13,960
Speaker 2: But it doesn't mean that, like you said, with work,

721
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:17,000
Speaker 2: that it's going to be rainbows and butterflies all the time.

722
00:32:17,040 --> 00:32:19,960
Speaker 1: One sometimes that is what makes the relationship stronger over time,

723
00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:21,920
Speaker 1: is the fact that like, you have had hurdles, test,

724
00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:24,120
Speaker 1: you've had difficulties, and then it's like, wait a second,

725
00:32:24,120 --> 00:32:25,800
Speaker 1: look at what we've come through together, and that makes

726
00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,080
Speaker 1: the love even better, even richer, exactly.

727
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, So while we're talking about relationships, I think that's

728
00:32:30,640 --> 00:32:33,200
Speaker 2: another one that's important to tackle as well, because I

729
00:32:33,240 --> 00:32:37,680
Speaker 2: think a lot of people also pin their happiness on relationship.

730
00:32:38,040 --> 00:32:40,400
Speaker 2: You know, the belief that relationships will make you happy.

731
00:32:40,400 --> 00:32:44,200
Speaker 2: It's it's fairly ubiquitous, but it is also incredibly flawed.

732
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 2: Why else what Over forty four million folks in the

733
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:50,640
Speaker 2: US hop over to dating apps but to find someone

734
00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,880
Speaker 2: who's going to make them happy. Of course, that's why

735
00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:55,520
Speaker 2: these apps crush and there are so many folks on there.

736
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:58,800
Speaker 2: It's something like three hundred and fifty million globally. But

737
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,480
Speaker 2: the thing is, the research can firms of behavior as well, because,

738
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:05,000
Speaker 2: according to the Harvard study of adult development, The biggest

739
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:11,440
Speaker 2: predictor of happiness are stable relationships, especially long term romantic relationships.

740
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,080
Speaker 2: And not only that, you know, there's plenty of studies

741
00:33:14,240 --> 00:33:17,360
Speaker 2: and research out there that have shown that satisfying relationships

742
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:20,840
Speaker 2: lead to better health, it leads to people living longer

743
00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:24,160
Speaker 2: as well. And so while this sort of sounds like

744
00:33:24,200 --> 00:33:26,160
Speaker 2: this is a slam dunk argument to go out and

745
00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:29,440
Speaker 2: find true love, but it would be a massive mistake

746
00:33:29,520 --> 00:33:32,520
Speaker 2: to think that this alone is going to bring about

747
00:33:32,720 --> 00:33:35,520
Speaker 2: lasting happiness. Like you said, with finding a job that

748
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 2: you love, it's not about necessarily finding a job that

749
00:33:38,440 --> 00:33:41,000
Speaker 2: you love, as opposed to maybe creating a job that

750
00:33:41,080 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 2: you love and finding the things about it that you.

751
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,360
Speaker 1: Love and being the kind of person who can enjoy

752
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:48,440
Speaker 1: their work even if it's not the ideal scenario exactly, dude.

753
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, And of course we all know folks who aren't

754
00:33:51,360 --> 00:33:53,600
Speaker 2: actually married, right, who don't have a partner or a

755
00:33:53,600 --> 00:33:57,360
Speaker 2: significant other, and they're out there quite happy, they're live

756
00:33:57,360 --> 00:33:59,480
Speaker 2: in their best lives. So it's not completely dependent on

757
00:33:59,640 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 2: finding somebody else in order to have happiness.

758
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:06,040
Speaker 1: For sure. Yeah, there is no The partner is not

759
00:34:06,080 --> 00:34:07,520
Speaker 1: going to solve all the things that ails you and

760
00:34:07,520 --> 00:34:08,759
Speaker 1: if you think they are, and if that's what you're

761
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:11,480
Speaker 1: looking for, you're actually probably gonna make them unhappy in

762
00:34:11,520 --> 00:34:13,839
Speaker 1: your question of happiness, Like both of you will end.

763
00:34:13,880 --> 00:34:16,560
Speaker 2: Up placing too much on that relationship and you're putting

764
00:34:16,560 --> 00:34:17,240
Speaker 2: too much on their shoulder.

765
00:34:17,239 --> 00:34:18,960
Speaker 1: You're asking it to do something that it can't do.

766
00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: You're asking a person to do something that they can't do.

767
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,680
Speaker 1: Fulfill me right right now. Well, And the likelihood of

768
00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,279
Speaker 1: those singles being happy has a lot to do with

769
00:34:28,320 --> 00:34:30,600
Speaker 1: other important relationships in their lives as well, Matt, like

770
00:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: those with friends and family. And so you only need

771
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,000
Speaker 1: to look as far as the Transformational book the Top

772
00:34:37,040 --> 00:34:41,239
Speaker 1: five Regrets of the Dying to see this. Interestingly, three

773
00:34:41,280 --> 00:34:43,680
Speaker 1: of those regrets three of them have more to do

774
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,280
Speaker 1: with self actualization, but the other two are about working

775
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: less and pursuing friendships more. And especially given how much

776
00:34:51,160 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: time is being spent alone these days, there were recent

777
00:34:53,680 --> 00:34:56,399
Speaker 1: statistics and they're mind blowing. I Mean, I think we're

778
00:34:56,400 --> 00:34:58,000
Speaker 1: all tired of hearing the word pandemic at this point,

779
00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: but there is basically a pandemic of life loneliness, and

780
00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:05,719
Speaker 1: people feel more on their own, they feel more disconnected

781
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,040
Speaker 1: from the people around them in their community, from friends

782
00:35:09,040 --> 00:35:11,960
Speaker 1: and family than ever before. So folks run the risk

783
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:14,919
Speaker 1: of having more relational regrets at the end of their

784
00:35:15,040 --> 00:35:18,880
Speaker 1: lives than even ten twenty years ago. We're often choosing

785
00:35:18,880 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 1: what feels like real interactions on social media over actual,

786
00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,359
Speaker 1: real conversations and time together. And those interactions on social

787
00:35:26,440 --> 00:35:28,919
Speaker 1: media they feel, they seem like they're going to be real,

788
00:35:29,239 --> 00:35:32,040
Speaker 1: but they don't provide nearly the same happiness benefit.

789
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like, Yeah, you might have like five hundred

790
00:35:34,160 --> 00:35:37,880
Speaker 2: followers on Instagram or five thousand friends on Facebook, but

791
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:41,799
Speaker 2: how many of those relationships actually have depth, actually have

792
00:35:41,880 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 2: substance to them that would lead to meaningful fulfillment.

793
00:35:45,680 --> 00:35:48,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, your boy Christiano Ronaldo has like five hundred million

794
00:35:48,080 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: Instagram followers and how many how many of those followers

795
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,520
Speaker 1: does he have deep connections with? None of them? Right

796
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:55,360
Speaker 1: or almost none of them? And there is something to

797
00:35:55,400 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: be said about that. It's like, at what point does

798
00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:02,880
Speaker 1: that follower count or do those online interactions matter? And

799
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,920
Speaker 1: I would say they don't have much influence for the

800
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:07,880
Speaker 1: most part over our happiness, And in fact, because we

801
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,799
Speaker 1: spend so much time doing them, it's often having the

802
00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:14,200
Speaker 1: opposite effect. And Neil Hilborne. He once said, I'm not

803
00:36:14,239 --> 00:36:16,839
Speaker 1: saying you have find meaning the meaning of life in

804
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:19,640
Speaker 1: other people. He said, I'm saying other people are the

805
00:36:19,680 --> 00:36:21,960
Speaker 1: life to which you provide meaning to. And I think

806
00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: that's really profound. I think when we stop looking to

807
00:36:24,960 --> 00:36:28,160
Speaker 1: find meaning in other people in the relationships around us,

808
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:31,920
Speaker 1: and we seek to provide meaning instead to the people

809
00:36:31,920 --> 00:36:35,080
Speaker 1: around us, that's when our happiness levels are going to

810
00:36:35,160 --> 00:36:39,239
Speaker 1: go up and our deeper sense of purpose is going

811
00:36:39,280 --> 00:36:39,720
Speaker 1: to be felt.

812
00:36:39,800 --> 00:36:41,960
Speaker 2: Exactly if you look at it through like the consumption

813
00:36:42,239 --> 00:36:44,920
Speaker 2: production model, it has more to do with pouring into

814
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,759
Speaker 2: other people's lives, and hopefully you have people who are

815
00:36:47,760 --> 00:36:49,919
Speaker 2: doing that around you as well, who are pouring into

816
00:36:49,920 --> 00:36:52,200
Speaker 2: your life. Like it kind of comes down to again

817
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,960
Speaker 2: when we're talking about social media, it comes down to

818
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:57,480
Speaker 2: like quality over quantity, right, And while you might have

819
00:36:57,760 --> 00:37:00,640
Speaker 2: hundreds or thousands or hundreds of millions if you're a

820
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:03,160
Speaker 2: soccer superstar. By the way, you know, I'm a more

821
00:37:03,200 --> 00:37:05,480
Speaker 2: of a messy guy than Ronaldo. Personally, I thought you

822
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:06,040
Speaker 2: were Ambappe.

823
00:37:06,200 --> 00:37:07,520
Speaker 1: No, he is awesome.

824
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:12,319
Speaker 2: I love him, But the quality of your relationships relationships

825
00:37:12,360 --> 00:37:14,440
Speaker 2: matter a ton because obviously if you have somebody in

826
00:37:14,520 --> 00:37:17,760
Speaker 2: your life, whether it's a friend or certainly a partner,

827
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:20,960
Speaker 2: and if it's a bad relationship, if it's a toxic relationship,

828
00:37:20,960 --> 00:37:24,480
Speaker 2: you're going to see the opposite of happiness. Right, You're

829
00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:26,640
Speaker 2: going to have increased stress levels, your your health probably

830
00:37:26,719 --> 00:37:28,920
Speaker 2: is going to be worse. I guess you could take

831
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:31,759
Speaker 2: it to its ultimate conclusion, and maybe there's research that

832
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,440
Speaker 2: shows that you're not going to live as long. Basically,

833
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:38,120
Speaker 2: all the opposite things that fulfilling relationships provide poor quality

834
00:37:38,239 --> 00:37:42,000
Speaker 2: or even toxic relationships, I've got to think do the opposite. Yeah, well, so,

835
00:37:42,080 --> 00:37:44,560
Speaker 2: I think the basic formula probably for a greater relational

836
00:37:44,560 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: happiness is to spend less time alone, spend more time

837
00:37:48,640 --> 00:37:51,399
Speaker 2: with the people that matter to you, and then act

838
00:37:51,400 --> 00:37:55,640
Speaker 2: as though you are actively seeking to make them happier.

839
00:37:55,719 --> 00:37:58,000
Speaker 1: Right. And the more you seek to do that, the

840
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:00,960
Speaker 1: more you're pouring into those relationships in a way that

841
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:04,480
Speaker 1: benefits the other party, the more your happiness is going

842
00:38:04,560 --> 00:38:06,319
Speaker 1: to be impacted, and the more they're gonna be for

843
00:38:06,360 --> 00:38:08,200
Speaker 1: you when it counts to Like, the more you're gonna

844
00:38:08,239 --> 00:38:11,200
Speaker 1: have people around you when hard things happen, and like,

845
00:38:11,239 --> 00:38:14,439
Speaker 1: you need those friendships to support you then in lean

846
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:15,239
Speaker 1: times that you might have.

847
00:38:15,360 --> 00:38:17,360
Speaker 2: That's right, man, I could not agree more. That's certainly

848
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:19,480
Speaker 2: a way to increase the amount of happiness and some

849
00:38:19,560 --> 00:38:22,480
Speaker 2: of the satisfaction that we're able to garner from the

850
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:25,480
Speaker 2: different relationships in our lives. But right after the break,

851
00:38:25,520 --> 00:38:27,879
Speaker 2: we're gonna continue along and we're actually gonna dive into

852
00:38:27,960 --> 00:38:32,200
Speaker 2: some more scientific, some nerdier terms that we think will

853
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,800
Speaker 2: ultimately help you to distinguish between some of the different

854
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,839
Speaker 2: types of happiness. Like essentially, we're gonna boil it down

855
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:40,680
Speaker 2: to two different types of happiness, and we think that

856
00:38:40,719 --> 00:38:43,160
Speaker 2: there is room for both of these types of happiness

857
00:38:43,160 --> 00:38:45,319
Speaker 2: in your life, and we'll get to those right after this.

858
00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,880
Speaker 1: Okay, we're gonna keep this happiness conversation going back. This

859
00:38:57,960 --> 00:38:59,839
Speaker 1: is making me happy as we speak. The happiness train.

860
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:02,319
Speaker 1: I still thought you're gonna say, keep it on rolling.

861
00:39:02,680 --> 00:39:05,279
Speaker 1: And by the way, we have train tracks like real

862
00:39:05,320 --> 00:39:07,920
Speaker 1: close do where we live. I saw the other day trains.

863
00:39:07,920 --> 00:39:10,040
Speaker 1: There was a truck on the train tracks, but it

864
00:39:10,160 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 1: had like wheels, train wheels. All. Yeah, he was doing repairs.

865
00:39:13,280 --> 00:39:14,760
Speaker 1: So it's so funny. Did you see it on Saturday?

866
00:39:14,880 --> 00:39:17,440
Speaker 1: Maybe it was so cool. I never seen one before.

867
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:21,440
Speaker 2: I have so I've seen those trucks driving around town before,

868
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:24,319
Speaker 2: but I've never actually seen one on the tracks where

869
00:39:24,360 --> 00:39:27,560
Speaker 2: it had the steel little steel wheels drop with the tires.

870
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:29,279
Speaker 1: Propelling it along. Thought that was awesome, look like the

871
00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:31,200
Speaker 1: cool thing of it. I was like, totally agree. If

872
00:39:31,239 --> 00:39:34,479
Speaker 1: I have a job after podcasting, maybe it's repairing trains,

873
00:39:34,880 --> 00:39:37,200
Speaker 1: the drive the truck that's that's allowed to drive on

874
00:39:37,200 --> 00:39:39,640
Speaker 1: the train tracks. My son would be so jealousy. Yeah,

875
00:39:40,239 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: I saw it.

876
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:42,600
Speaker 2: I was like, West, you look, buddy, it's just like

877
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,239
Speaker 2: train truck. I was like, that's what I would call

878
00:39:46,280 --> 00:39:46,520
Speaker 2: it too.

879
00:39:46,520 --> 00:39:49,040
Speaker 1: But that is somehow the combination of my two favorite things.

880
00:39:49,080 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: Dead exactly. Well, let's talk about happiness, Matt, because it's amazing. Yeah,

881
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,640
Speaker 1: just the how sometimes those little things can make our

882
00:39:55,719 --> 00:39:59,080
Speaker 1: kiddos so happy. Seeing a train seems. I'm always amazed

883
00:39:59,080 --> 00:40:01,200
Speaker 1: seeing Christmas lights, even just a couple of weeks ago,

884
00:40:01,440 --> 00:40:03,160
Speaker 1: going to see some free Christmas lights with my kids

885
00:40:03,239 --> 00:40:05,480
Speaker 1: seeing them through their eyes. Boom, their eyes light up,

886
00:40:05,520 --> 00:40:07,680
Speaker 1: and it's like, this is the coolest thing. It's not

887
00:40:07,719 --> 00:40:10,000
Speaker 1: even something new, it's just an experience that they get

888
00:40:10,000 --> 00:40:13,480
Speaker 1: to enjoy. But and I would say, maybe we're getting

889
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,840
Speaker 1: a bit far along in the podcast to define terms.

890
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:18,640
Speaker 1: But we've been talking about. What we've been talking about

891
00:40:18,719 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: here largely is the difference between hedonic and you demonic happiness.

892
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:25,160
Speaker 1: That's right, And you've you've heard us talk about the

893
00:40:25,160 --> 00:40:27,440
Speaker 1: hedonic treadmill before on the show. If typical listening for

894
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:29,279
Speaker 1: any period of time typically a bad thing.

895
00:40:29,360 --> 00:40:31,160
Speaker 2: It's where you spend a bunch of money and you

896
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:33,560
Speaker 2: get that quick little sugar rash, that little, quick, little

897
00:40:33,560 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 2: peak of happiness. But then you got to keep you

898
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:38,640
Speaker 2: return right back to your baseline of happiness, right, and

899
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:40,480
Speaker 2: then if you don't, don't actually get anywhere.

900
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:43,160
Speaker 1: Continue Like let's say you started a skincare regimen and

901
00:40:43,200 --> 00:40:44,680
Speaker 1: your skins look good, then you're like, I don't have

902
00:40:44,680 --> 00:40:46,440
Speaker 1: the money to keep it up. Well, you're gonna be

903
00:40:46,480 --> 00:40:48,600
Speaker 1: less happy now because you started it and it was

904
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:53,160
Speaker 1: taken away. But hedonic happiness is centered around the bliss

905
00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: that momentary pleasures can provide, while u donomic happiness has

906
00:40:57,800 --> 00:41:01,320
Speaker 1: much more to do with meaningful activities boost our ability

907
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:05,400
Speaker 1: to self actualize, which typically brings about more lasting happiness

908
00:41:05,480 --> 00:41:07,920
Speaker 1: in our lives. And so you might think that we're

909
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:10,839
Speaker 1: here to throw all those forms of hedonic happiness out

910
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:12,920
Speaker 1: the window. You might say, Joel, Matt, they only want

911
00:41:12,920 --> 00:41:16,759
Speaker 1: those long form ways to boost our happiness. But that

912
00:41:16,840 --> 00:41:19,600
Speaker 1: is not true actually, because remember what we're doing right now.

913
00:41:19,680 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: Part of the philosophy of our show even is that

914
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,680
Speaker 1: we drink at craft beer while we talk about money,

915
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:27,799
Speaker 1: because we care about even some of those a few

916
00:41:27,840 --> 00:41:32,200
Speaker 1: of those hedonic abilities to enjoy happiness in the here

917
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,799
Speaker 1: and now, some of the tangible physical realities that do

918
00:41:34,880 --> 00:41:38,000
Speaker 1: actually contribute to our happiness if used properly, and if

919
00:41:38,000 --> 00:41:41,360
Speaker 1: you're in a decently stable personal finance position, well, we

920
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,759
Speaker 1: think it's important to find the right balance. And even

921
00:41:43,800 --> 00:41:47,160
Speaker 1: though we come down pretty hard on mindless consumption, that

922
00:41:47,239 --> 00:41:49,879
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that you can't enjoy some of the nice

923
00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,680
Speaker 1: season life in the here and now. And that's yeah,

924
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:54,319
Speaker 1: one of the things that craft beer does for us, Matt.

925
00:41:54,320 --> 00:41:56,080
Speaker 1: I feel like in a lot of ways, that's right. Yeah.

926
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,040
Speaker 2: What's interesting is that it seems like oftentimes when it

927
00:41:58,080 --> 00:42:01,839
Speaker 2: comes to hedonic happiness like that comes about by us

928
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:06,960
Speaker 2: spending money, whereas when we're pursuing you tomonic happiness, oftentimes

929
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,680
Speaker 2: we're spending time which is the whole time and money

930
00:42:10,920 --> 00:42:14,160
Speaker 2: parallel has always been one that's that's fascinated me. So,

931
00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:16,480
Speaker 2: like you're basically talking about how we're not gonna we're

932
00:42:16,520 --> 00:42:19,400
Speaker 2: not gonna like drop the hammer on hedonic happiness.

933
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:20,840
Speaker 1: Yeah, which would maybe.

934
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:22,600
Speaker 2: Be a will that be a decent name for a band,

935
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:28,920
Speaker 2: But we're also not going to glorify you tomonic happiness, right, Like,

936
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:30,640
Speaker 2: we're not going to say that that you should avoid

937
00:42:30,960 --> 00:42:33,960
Speaker 2: worldly pleasures in an attempt to live a mission driven

938
00:42:34,000 --> 00:42:36,600
Speaker 2: life one hundred percent of the time. And if you're

939
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:38,359
Speaker 2: not working towards your goals every second of the day,

940
00:42:38,680 --> 00:42:41,200
Speaker 2: then you're just a worthless human being. That would be

941
00:42:41,239 --> 00:42:45,080
Speaker 2: a puritanical existence that we're not seeking to strive after.

942
00:42:45,600 --> 00:42:47,840
Speaker 2: But you are listening to an episode on happiness, and

943
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:50,239
Speaker 2: so you know, we do want to encourage you to

944
00:42:50,360 --> 00:42:56,560
Speaker 2: find ways to maybe like reasonably maximize both hedonic happiness

945
00:42:56,640 --> 00:42:59,360
Speaker 2: and you tomonic happiness, and we think that that's going

946
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:03,040
Speaker 2: to be the best way to leave a happier life overall.

947
00:43:03,080 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: You've got to find that balance, and you've got to

948
00:43:04,719 --> 00:43:07,560
Speaker 2: figure out which aspects of each of those types of

949
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:10,239
Speaker 2: happiness ring most true to you.

950
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:12,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, all right, so how do you do that? Well,

951
00:43:12,360 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: when it comes to increasing the amount of hedonic happiness

952
00:43:15,120 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: in your life, the more consumption oriented version, well, the

953
00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:22,719
Speaker 1: simple mechanism we'd recommend is to budget, or at the

954
00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 1: very least, to track your spending. That's right, And by

955
00:43:24,760 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: doing this, you're gonna be able to see where your

956
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,960
Speaker 1: dollars are actually going. You'll be forced to confront the

957
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,280
Speaker 1: actual facts on the ground, and then you can simply

958
00:43:32,320 --> 00:43:35,240
Speaker 1: ask yourself if you like how you're spending your money,

959
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: Like do I like spending seven hundred and fifty dollars

960
00:43:37,680 --> 00:43:40,520
Speaker 1: a month eating out? Or could I spend that money

961
00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:42,440
Speaker 1: in a way that's gonna move the needle in a

962
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:44,560
Speaker 1: bigger way for me? Like, you know what, I didn't

963
00:43:44,560 --> 00:43:46,000
Speaker 1: realize I was spending that much. I thought I was

964
00:43:46,000 --> 00:43:48,680
Speaker 1: spending three fifty a month eating out. That sounds like

965
00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:50,919
Speaker 1: more like what I should be spending. I can dial

966
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:53,120
Speaker 1: it back because then that means I'm gonna be able

967
00:43:53,160 --> 00:43:56,280
Speaker 1: to take two more trips a year with family or friends,

968
00:43:56,320 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: like create better memories. And I feel like, right now

969
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: it's just going down the toilet. You might say, actually, no,

970
00:44:01,920 --> 00:44:03,839
Speaker 1: I want to spend one thousand dollars a month eating out,

971
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,400
Speaker 1: because these are always relational experiences with people that are

972
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:09,680
Speaker 1: closest to me because I'm a food e Yeah, exactly,

973
00:44:09,760 --> 00:44:11,960
Speaker 1: And that's fine too, but so much if it's about

974
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:14,879
Speaker 1: being intentional with your money rather than frittering in a way,

975
00:44:15,400 --> 00:44:17,360
Speaker 1: and if you want to make the most use of

976
00:44:17,400 --> 00:44:21,360
Speaker 1: it to boost your hedonic happiness in the biggest way,

977
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:23,520
Speaker 1: you're gonna want to track it. And then you're gonna

978
00:44:23,520 --> 00:44:25,279
Speaker 1: want to kind of hold that up to the light

979
00:44:25,360 --> 00:44:27,760
Speaker 1: against your values and say, like, well, am I actually

980
00:44:27,760 --> 00:44:30,000
Speaker 1: spending my money the way that it's going to produce

981
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:33,000
Speaker 1: the best results on the happiness front for me? Exactly?

982
00:44:33,120 --> 00:44:35,080
Speaker 2: And I like that you pointed out that it could

983
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,960
Speaker 2: also be somebody spending money on trips, because it's not

984
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:44,000
Speaker 2: that all hedonic happiness should be derived from items, because experiences,

985
00:44:44,040 --> 00:44:46,960
Speaker 2: like you said, trips, vacations, going out to eat with friends,

986
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:50,560
Speaker 2: those are oftentimes you know, most folks can consider those experiences,

987
00:44:50,560 --> 00:44:53,279
Speaker 2: but those can also be a form of hedonic happiness

988
00:44:53,440 --> 00:44:57,319
Speaker 2: because typically you receive that short term high, right like

989
00:44:57,360 --> 00:44:57,960
Speaker 2: you go out.

990
00:44:57,840 --> 00:45:00,040
Speaker 1: To eat, the food's delicious.

991
00:44:59,560 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: You are enjoying it in the moment. Maybe there's great

992
00:45:02,239 --> 00:45:04,560
Speaker 2: cocktails you see some other friends, it's a fun time.

993
00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:07,640
Speaker 2: But then after that, all that's gone in the same way.

994
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 2: And you know, some folks would make an argument to

995
00:45:09,440 --> 00:45:11,839
Speaker 2: say that, well, there's memories being formed, and so there's

996
00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:15,400
Speaker 2: a maybe a richer form of hedonic happiness that's taking place.

997
00:45:15,560 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: Maybe there's a little you demonic buzz you're getting at

998
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:19,280
Speaker 1: the same time. Exactly.

999
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, but I mean oftentimes you tomonic like it it

1000
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:24,239
Speaker 2: comes down to the like I guess, the work that

1001
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:26,439
Speaker 2: you're performing. But essentially, like you said, it's it's holding

1002
00:45:26,440 --> 00:45:28,920
Speaker 2: it up to the light. It's aligning, it's finding alignment

1003
00:45:28,960 --> 00:45:30,960
Speaker 2: between what it is that you want to spend your

1004
00:45:30,960 --> 00:45:33,560
Speaker 2: money on and how it is that you're actually doing it.

1005
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:35,920
Speaker 2: And so, yeah, we want you to boost your hedonic

1006
00:45:35,960 --> 00:45:38,839
Speaker 2: happiness by intentionally spending your own money, and then you're

1007
00:45:38,840 --> 00:45:42,719
Speaker 2: able to boost your eu tomonic happiness by intentionally spending

1008
00:45:42,840 --> 00:45:46,040
Speaker 2: your time. You know, Like, like our society, like us included,

1009
00:45:46,120 --> 00:45:49,360
Speaker 2: sometimes we tend to always use the term wealth to

1010
00:45:49,440 --> 00:45:51,400
Speaker 2: refer to money, but you know, like they're all sorts

1011
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:54,280
Speaker 2: of different ways that we think you can be wealthy

1012
00:45:54,320 --> 00:45:56,120
Speaker 2: in this life, right, Like you can have relational wealth,

1013
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:58,719
Speaker 2: you can have creative wealth even just like you know,

1014
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:01,600
Speaker 2: as we're talking about you tomonic happiness, just missional wealth

1015
00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:03,800
Speaker 2: that allows you to feel like you're making a difference

1016
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:04,680
Speaker 2: in the world, right.

1017
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,480
Speaker 1: Of a wealth of knowledge that comes from reading books

1018
00:46:06,480 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 1: and sending information. That growth that's taking place gives you

1019
00:46:09,800 --> 00:46:11,480
Speaker 1: an internal richness, right exactly.

1020
00:46:11,520 --> 00:46:13,080
Speaker 2: It's like essentially what we're talking about here, all the

1021
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:16,840
Speaker 2: different types of wealth that allow you to self actualize.

1022
00:46:16,840 --> 00:46:19,319
Speaker 2: We're talking about mas Thow's hierarchy of needs, and that

1023
00:46:19,360 --> 00:46:21,600
Speaker 2: is at the tippy top, and that is I mean,

1024
00:46:21,640 --> 00:46:23,880
Speaker 2: it's kind of there's a reason that it's literally at

1025
00:46:23,880 --> 00:46:26,840
Speaker 2: the pinnacle of the of the actual trying because.

1026
00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:28,520
Speaker 1: You've got to have all those other bases covered before

1027
00:46:28,560 --> 00:46:30,760
Speaker 1: you can really think about that exist. And that's why

1028
00:46:31,239 --> 00:46:35,160
Speaker 1: you mentioned the seventy five thousand dollars reference earlier on

1029
00:46:35,200 --> 00:46:38,439
Speaker 1: Matt and how Yeah, if you're making twenty thousand dollars

1030
00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,000
Speaker 1: a year, barely making ends meet, then it's going to

1031
00:46:42,000 --> 00:46:43,799
Speaker 1: be hard to focus on some of these other levels

1032
00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,719
Speaker 1: of happiness. So money does play a role in your

1033
00:46:46,760 --> 00:46:49,000
Speaker 1: ability to pursue some of these other things. The more

1034
00:46:49,000 --> 00:46:51,880
Speaker 1: money you have in the bank account, the more it

1035
00:46:51,920 --> 00:46:54,239
Speaker 1: allows you to have some of this free time. But

1036
00:46:54,440 --> 00:46:56,719
Speaker 1: the problem is a lot of us don't take that

1037
00:46:56,960 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: when we have it, and so yeah, I don't know,

1038
00:46:58,760 --> 00:46:58,960
Speaker 1: but what.

1039
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:02,560
Speaker 2: It's still a very functional thing to talk about, right, sure,

1040
00:47:02,760 --> 00:47:04,279
Speaker 2: Like there's a reason why we have a show called

1041
00:47:04,280 --> 00:47:05,760
Speaker 2: how to Money because we still think it's really.

1042
00:47:05,600 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: Important, right, and especially given kind of the ability that

1043
00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:11,759
Speaker 1: we have in this country, which is, like we said,

1044
00:47:11,760 --> 00:47:14,040
Speaker 1: one of the richest country in the history of the world.

1045
00:47:14,280 --> 00:47:17,560
Speaker 1: We have more opportunity to maximize our money, to make

1046
00:47:17,560 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: smart decisions, to buy ourselves, more ability to do some

1047
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,480
Speaker 1: of these things. And so I guess someone might ask

1048
00:47:22,520 --> 00:47:24,960
Speaker 1: the question like, well, why do you guys spend all

1049
00:47:24,960 --> 00:47:29,000
Speaker 1: your time your work lives essentially dedicated to talking about money,

1050
00:47:29,400 --> 00:47:34,239
Speaker 1: And we would say, well, handling money well is probably

1051
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,240
Speaker 1: it's one of the main tools in life that allows

1052
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:39,360
Speaker 1: you to pursue other things of even more importance. It

1053
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:42,319
Speaker 1: allows you to actually have more time thinking about that

1054
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:46,000
Speaker 1: the eudonomic happiness components, and so many folks don't know

1055
00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:48,120
Speaker 1: the basics, right, which is why we're on a mission.

1056
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:50,680
Speaker 1: We're on a mission to change that. Yep. But this

1057
00:47:50,760 --> 00:47:54,480
Speaker 1: is also why we don't get super nerdy, incredibly technical

1058
00:47:54,760 --> 00:47:58,120
Speaker 1: with some of these other deeper aspects of personal finance,

1059
00:47:58,360 --> 00:48:00,880
Speaker 1: because those don't really matter all that money either. And

1060
00:48:00,880 --> 00:48:03,960
Speaker 1: you're talking about the difference between doing ninety five percent

1061
00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:06,520
Speaker 1: of the things spot on and then spending an inordinate

1062
00:48:06,520 --> 00:48:10,080
Speaker 1: amount of time optimizing taket an extra three percent, right,

1063
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,799
Speaker 1: And so we want to redefine the focus of money.

1064
00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:14,840
Speaker 1: We want to say, listen, these are the things that

1065
00:48:14,920 --> 00:48:16,879
Speaker 1: really matter. We want you to get these things right.

1066
00:48:17,000 --> 00:48:18,920
Speaker 1: We want you to handle money well because it impacts

1067
00:48:18,920 --> 00:48:20,759
Speaker 1: all these other areas of your life. But it's also

1068
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:22,480
Speaker 1: not the end all be all right, and and that's

1069
00:48:22,719 --> 00:48:24,759
Speaker 1: that's That's exactly how we feel about money, is that

1070
00:48:25,000 --> 00:48:28,239
Speaker 1: it's a really important tool, but it's uh there. It

1071
00:48:28,280 --> 00:48:29,919
Speaker 1: also lacks a lot of things too when it comes

1072
00:48:29,960 --> 00:48:31,680
Speaker 1: to how happy it makes us exactly.

1073
00:48:31,760 --> 00:48:34,440
Speaker 2: Yeah, So money it's still going to be the focus

1074
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:36,560
Speaker 2: of our show because we do think it's it's it

1075
00:48:36,600 --> 00:48:37,960
Speaker 2: really is such a foundational tool.

1076
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:39,960
Speaker 1: In January, we could change our name to how to Happy,

1077
00:48:40,080 --> 00:48:43,840
Speaker 1: how to beer, how to bike. These are all the

1078
00:48:43,840 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: topics we talk about on the show. Okay, but let's let's.

1079
00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,520
Speaker 2: Get more practical with it, right, And so if budgeting

1080
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:53,840
Speaker 2: and tracking your spending, if that allows you to reprioritize

1081
00:48:53,840 --> 00:48:56,440
Speaker 2: how you're spending your money, well, then simply looking at

1082
00:48:56,480 --> 00:48:58,799
Speaker 2: your calendar like that can help you to do the

1083
00:48:58,840 --> 00:49:01,000
Speaker 2: same with your time. And so look at it and

1084
00:49:01,239 --> 00:49:03,560
Speaker 2: see is like is it full of events and meetings

1085
00:49:03,600 --> 00:49:06,560
Speaker 2: that you are excited about? Or have you slipped into

1086
00:49:06,719 --> 00:49:09,040
Speaker 2: the busyness trap that's so easy to fall prey to,

1087
00:49:09,239 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 2: I mean, especially this time of year. That being said,

1088
00:49:11,840 --> 00:49:16,200
Speaker 2: not everybody follows their calendar maybe as strictly as others.

1089
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:18,600
Speaker 2: And so maybe if you'd rather start with the end

1090
00:49:18,640 --> 00:49:21,279
Speaker 2: in mind, it could be helpful to start with, like

1091
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 2: some of life's biggest questions, you could take it a

1092
00:49:23,600 --> 00:49:25,680
Speaker 2: completely different approach and you can come up with a

1093
00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:28,080
Speaker 2: mission statement that you can work towards. I think for

1094
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 2: a lot of folks, having that end in mind, having

1095
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:33,840
Speaker 2: that goal that you're working towards can just allow everything

1096
00:49:33,840 --> 00:49:36,279
Speaker 2: else to kind of fall into place, as opposed to

1097
00:49:36,320 --> 00:49:38,840
Speaker 2: starting at the bottom and kind of piecing it together.

1098
00:49:38,880 --> 00:49:40,759
Speaker 1: It can act like a guiding light to inform the

1099
00:49:40,880 --> 00:49:44,480
Speaker 1: other choices, and you decide to incorporate it into your life.

1100
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:46,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, and so we we'll link to a worksheet

1101
00:49:46,239 --> 00:49:48,440
Speaker 2: that we've created to help you to find the answers

1102
00:49:48,480 --> 00:49:50,840
Speaker 2: to some of these questions. It's our money mission statement,

1103
00:49:51,040 --> 00:49:53,120
Speaker 2: but the money part of it is kind of secondary

1104
00:49:53,280 --> 00:49:56,359
Speaker 2: to the first questions we ask, which is primarily more

1105
00:49:56,400 --> 00:49:58,600
Speaker 2: about how it is that you want to spend your time,

1106
00:49:58,840 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 2: because ultimately time it is the most valuable resource. It

1107
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,319
Speaker 2: is the most scarce resource that we have, and that

1108
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:07,560
Speaker 2: ultimately defines what it is that your life looks like,

1109
00:50:07,600 --> 00:50:09,400
Speaker 2: how it is that you are spending your days and

1110
00:50:09,440 --> 00:50:09,840
Speaker 2: your weeks.

1111
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:11,360
Speaker 1: And we think this is the perfect time to be

1112
00:50:11,360 --> 00:50:14,400
Speaker 1: thinking about this topic because we just got maybe, like

1113
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: I referenced at the beginning of the episode, Christmas lets

1114
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:19,040
Speaker 1: you down in a way like it wasn't all that

1115
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:20,640
Speaker 1: you hoped it would be. And you built it up

1116
00:50:20,880 --> 00:50:23,560
Speaker 1: through the month of December, singing the carols, listen to

1117
00:50:23,560 --> 00:50:26,480
Speaker 1: the Mariah Carey jams, and you were like decorating the

1118
00:50:26,520 --> 00:50:29,400
Speaker 1: tree Maria Carrey's out. Man. You just see the headlines.

1119
00:50:29,440 --> 00:50:31,080
Speaker 1: Is it not still the number one most listening to

1120
00:50:31,200 --> 00:50:33,960
Speaker 1: Christmas song? It might be, but everyone's like revolting, nobody

1121
00:50:33,960 --> 00:50:36,120
Speaker 1: wants to hear it here really more? Yeah, yeah, Okay,

1122
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,080
Speaker 1: don't tell that to my wife. Your wife is such

1123
00:50:39,120 --> 00:50:43,360
Speaker 1: a millennial. She loves that song. She hates Mariah Carey. Well,

1124
00:50:43,360 --> 00:50:46,080
Speaker 1: you're doing all these things right in this effort to

1125
00:50:46,680 --> 00:50:49,879
Speaker 1: have a happy Christmas, and yet you may have still

1126
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,480
Speaker 1: felt a little bit let down. And so especially as

1127
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,440
Speaker 1: we're going to towards a new year and you're starting

1128
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,399
Speaker 1: to think about like maybe things you want to change.

1129
00:50:57,440 --> 00:50:59,040
Speaker 1: There's a fresh start. We're going to talk about fresh

1130
00:50:59,040 --> 00:51:02,160
Speaker 1: starts here next week on the show. But you have

1131
00:51:02,239 --> 00:51:05,280
Speaker 1: this ability to use use this fresh start to propel

1132
00:51:05,320 --> 00:51:08,240
Speaker 1: yourself forward in a different way. This is the perfect

1133
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,640
Speaker 1: time to be thinking about all these things. Yep, as

1134
00:51:10,680 --> 00:51:13,400
Speaker 1: you're kind of making those plans and from where we're sitting,

1135
00:51:13,680 --> 00:51:17,560
Speaker 1: cultivating a rich inner life, like delightful hobbies and indispensable

1136
00:51:17,560 --> 00:51:21,280
Speaker 1: community are some of the keys to finding happiness. Money

1137
00:51:21,320 --> 00:51:23,279
Speaker 1: it's not unimportant, right you know what, Matt and I

1138
00:51:23,360 --> 00:51:26,080
Speaker 1: were not planning to take a vow of poverty anytime soon.

1139
00:51:26,960 --> 00:51:29,600
Speaker 1: You're not going to live a monastic existence, and not

1140
00:51:29,680 --> 00:51:32,920
Speaker 1: yet at least, maybe monastery become one of those desert fathers.

1141
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:36,640
Speaker 1: Maybe your wife and kids would love it if you left.

1142
00:51:36,719 --> 00:51:38,680
Speaker 1: And right now they think that was great, it'd have

1143
00:51:38,719 --> 00:51:40,840
Speaker 1: to be like an empty nuster thing. Yeah, maybe that,

1144
00:51:41,680 --> 00:51:44,319
Speaker 1: But like money doesn't have all that much bearing on

1145
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:46,799
Speaker 1: a lot of these things past a certain point. That

1146
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:48,160
Speaker 1: is kind of what we're getting out here. And if

1147
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:50,200
Speaker 1: you've been listening to this show for any point of time,

1148
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:52,800
Speaker 1: you know we're not against building wealth through your future.

1149
00:51:53,080 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: But now is a great time to think about how

1150
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:58,200
Speaker 1: much stock you're placing in your bank or your investment accounts,

1151
00:51:58,360 --> 00:52:00,360
Speaker 1: and are you placing too much of a prior already

1152
00:52:00,480 --> 00:52:03,520
Speaker 1: on those things to the detriment of other more important things.

1153
00:52:03,840 --> 00:52:06,160
Speaker 1: That's food for thought as we're heading into a new year.

1154
00:52:06,320 --> 00:52:06,719
Speaker 1: That's right.

1155
00:52:06,719 --> 00:52:09,040
Speaker 2: Man, couldn't have said it better myself. Let's go ahead

1156
00:52:09,040 --> 00:52:10,880
Speaker 2: and shift gears and get back to the beer that

1157
00:52:10,960 --> 00:52:13,360
Speaker 2: you and I enjoyed during this episode. This was called

1158
00:52:13,480 --> 00:52:17,200
Speaker 2: mile high Salute, which is the only mile high salute?

1159
00:52:17,239 --> 00:52:19,919
Speaker 1: Is that the Broncos football thing? Have you ever heard?

1160
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:22,040
Speaker 1: I think it is when they do the you know,

1161
00:52:22,360 --> 00:52:24,480
Speaker 1: when they store a touchdown? Yeah? Did they do that anymore?

1162
00:52:24,480 --> 00:52:26,640
Speaker 1: I don't know. I feel like I remember that back

1163
00:52:26,640 --> 00:52:29,400
Speaker 1: in the day. Carol Davis, I remember him exactly.

1164
00:52:29,719 --> 00:52:33,000
Speaker 2: But this was a Chicha sour and when Jack dropped

1165
00:52:33,040 --> 00:52:35,880
Speaker 2: these beers off, you mentioned so one of the co brewers,

1166
00:52:36,480 --> 00:52:38,040
Speaker 2: or I guess one of the co owners of the brewery.

1167
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:42,160
Speaker 2: He I think he's half Peruvian. And there is a

1168
00:52:42,239 --> 00:52:45,000
Speaker 2: drink called the Chicha something mayb maybe it's called the

1169
00:52:45,040 --> 00:52:45,760
Speaker 2: Chicha sour.

1170
00:52:45,680 --> 00:52:48,080
Speaker 1: Chicha Mrada, I believe. Oh is that it? Oh? Very nice?

1171
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:49,040
Speaker 1: Did you look it up? I did?

1172
00:52:49,080 --> 00:52:53,400
Speaker 2: Okay, Wikipedia so helpful. But this beer is brewed in

1173
00:52:53,440 --> 00:52:56,480
Speaker 2: the style of that drink, and so I would like

1174
00:52:56,520 --> 00:52:57,120
Speaker 2: to hear your thoughts.

1175
00:52:57,239 --> 00:52:58,920
Speaker 1: Joel. All right, I've never had a beer like this,

1176
00:52:59,080 --> 00:53:02,600
Speaker 1: which I think is always fun to try something always fun, unique,

1177
00:53:02,640 --> 00:53:04,720
Speaker 1: like a little out of left field. This one definitely

1178
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:08,800
Speaker 1: was that. It was a really cool combo of sour,

1179
00:53:09,360 --> 00:53:12,840
Speaker 1: spice and fruit, and so I like the pineapple, but

1180
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:15,840
Speaker 1: there was also cinnamon, but then it was also sour.

1181
00:53:16,080 --> 00:53:18,400
Speaker 1: Until it's like, it feels kind of like a kitchen

1182
00:53:18,440 --> 00:53:19,040
Speaker 1: sink beer in.

1183
00:53:19,000 --> 00:53:21,239
Speaker 2: A lot of ways, but not in a weird way,

1184
00:53:21,320 --> 00:53:23,319
Speaker 2: not in a weird way, like it all actually works,

1185
00:53:23,480 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 2: everything blended together really well, and so I will say, like, yeah,

1186
00:53:27,600 --> 00:53:29,240
Speaker 2: it sounds a little weird on its surface.

1187
00:53:29,239 --> 00:53:31,759
Speaker 1: If you read all these ingredients combined into one. But

1188
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:33,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. This beer pulled it off and I

1189
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:35,520
Speaker 1: enjoyed it. What about you?

1190
00:53:35,719 --> 00:53:38,160
Speaker 2: Yes, So when we poured this, the what I was

1191
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:40,360
Speaker 2: picking up on the nose, I could not get past this.

1192
00:53:40,560 --> 00:53:44,720
Speaker 2: But Lesardo Marischino licur uh huh. I like to sometimes

1193
00:53:44,760 --> 00:53:46,879
Speaker 2: put a little like tiny little splash of that when

1194
00:53:46,880 --> 00:53:49,480
Speaker 2: I'm making an old fashioned. In my opinion, that's exactly

1195
00:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,719
Speaker 2: what this smelled like before I tasted it, because yeah,

1196
00:53:52,719 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 2: because I don't for whatever reason's that's what I'll smell him.

1197
00:53:55,719 --> 00:53:57,520
Speaker 2: But then you take a sip and you can definitely

1198
00:53:57,600 --> 00:53:59,960
Speaker 2: taste that fruit, and for me, the cinnamon really came through,

1199
00:54:00,239 --> 00:54:02,920
Speaker 2: like in my opinion, that was not something I was

1200
00:54:03,080 --> 00:54:05,120
Speaker 2: picking up on my nose for whatever reason. But then

1201
00:54:05,239 --> 00:54:07,200
Speaker 2: once you taste it, you most definitely taste that.

1202
00:54:07,239 --> 00:54:10,120
Speaker 1: So there's a lot in the flavor profile for sure, clothes.

1203
00:54:09,960 --> 00:54:12,600
Speaker 2: It's all mixed in there. And this one in particular too,

1204
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:14,200
Speaker 2: I thought you might really like this one because it

1205
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:16,440
Speaker 2: was not overly sweet. I was expecting it it might be,

1206
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:18,360
Speaker 2: you know, personally, I would appreciate if it was a

1207
00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:21,239
Speaker 2: touch sweeter, but it was had a nice smout of

1208
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:24,640
Speaker 2: tartness going on, and honestly, that's great from the standpoint

1209
00:54:24,719 --> 00:54:28,080
Speaker 2: of not having like palette fatigue. You know, like I

1210
00:54:28,160 --> 00:54:30,040
Speaker 2: guess a sweeter beer, you drink it once and you're like, oh,

1211
00:54:30,120 --> 00:54:31,759
Speaker 2: this is amazing, But by the time you get to

1212
00:54:31,800 --> 00:54:33,399
Speaker 2: the end of the glass, you're kind of getting sick

1213
00:54:33,400 --> 00:54:35,440
Speaker 2: of it. Yeah, starting to feel kind of full. But

1214
00:54:35,560 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 2: that is not the case with something that's a little

1215
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,160
Speaker 2: bit on the dryer side. You get to the end

1216
00:54:39,160 --> 00:54:40,919
Speaker 2: of it and you're just wanting more because it's dry,

1217
00:54:41,000 --> 00:54:43,160
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, I need more sweetness, any more

1218
00:54:43,200 --> 00:54:46,440
Speaker 2: wetness in my mouth. Definitely really enjoyed this one. This

1219
00:54:46,560 --> 00:54:49,080
Speaker 2: was an incredibly unique beer and if you happen to

1220
00:54:49,120 --> 00:54:51,480
Speaker 2: be near Mutation Brewery, we would recommend you checking it

1221
00:54:51,560 --> 00:54:51,920
Speaker 2: out for.

1222
00:54:51,960 --> 00:54:55,120
Speaker 1: Sure, just outside of Atlanta. We still haven't been in person,

1223
00:54:55,239 --> 00:54:57,520
Speaker 1: but we'll make it happen soon. M Well, that's going

1224
00:54:57,600 --> 00:54:59,680
Speaker 1: to do it for this episode, Matt, Folks and fine

1225
00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:01,960
Speaker 1: show notes links to some of the studies maybe that

1226
00:55:02,040 --> 00:55:04,560
Speaker 1: we mentioned in this episode. You can find listen to

1227
00:55:04,640 --> 00:55:07,600
Speaker 1: that yeah on our website at Howtomoney dot com.

1228
00:55:07,719 --> 00:55:09,880
Speaker 2: That's right, and we are getting towards the end of

1229
00:55:10,000 --> 00:55:12,719
Speaker 2: the year, and so we will ask you one last time,

1230
00:55:13,120 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 2: if you have enjoyed this episode, or just our show

1231
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:17,640
Speaker 2: in general this year, We would love it if you

1232
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:21,080
Speaker 2: were to head over to Apple Podcasts or wherever it

1233
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,919
Speaker 2: is that you listen and leave us a positive rating,

1234
00:55:24,000 --> 00:55:25,880
Speaker 2: give us a nice review over there. It just helps

1235
00:55:25,920 --> 00:55:28,040
Speaker 2: others to find this show. You could even see it

1236
00:55:28,080 --> 00:55:30,759
Speaker 2: as a belated Christmas gift, a nice little present for

1237
00:55:31,000 --> 00:55:33,400
Speaker 2: Matt and Joel, so much better than the ugly Christmas

1238
00:55:33,400 --> 00:55:36,399
Speaker 2: winter you thought about sending us exactly, but Jiell, that's

1239
00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:39,200
Speaker 2: gonna be it, buddy for this episode. Until next time,

1240
00:55:39,360 --> 00:55:41,200
Speaker 2: Best Friends Out, Best Friends Out,