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Speaker 1: You're listening to Switched on the be Enough Client podcast.

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Speaker 1: I'm Dana Perkins. Each week we choose a recent be

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Speaker 1: Enough publication and discuss the findings with the analysts that

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Speaker 1: wrote the report. Just a quick disclaimer, BIENNEF does not

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Speaker 1: provide investment or strategy advice, and you can hear a

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Speaker 1: full disclaimer at the end of the show. So this

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Speaker 1: week we'll be discussing a report about air conditioning and

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Speaker 1: what it means for electricity demand across the world. Today,

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Speaker 1: residential and commercial air conditioners account for nine percent of

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Speaker 1: global electricity demand, and this demand is growing in the

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Speaker 1: most populated parts of the world. The twenty five countries

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Speaker 1: that BIENF chose to look at actually cover today's global

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Speaker 1: sales of air conditioners, so it is a great place

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Speaker 1: to start. Joining me today is sepen Best, who is

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Speaker 1: the lead author of Biennef's new Energy Outlook, and Mattias Kimmel,

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Speaker 1: who is our energy economics analyst who is tasked at

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Speaker 1: looking at power system forecasting and demand fundamentals. Alright, son Tiers,

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Speaker 1: thank you for joining us. Pleasure, thanks for having us,

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Speaker 1: Thank you. So we're going to talk today about a

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Speaker 1: new report that we've published called air Conditioning Heats Up

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Speaker 1: Electricity Demand. I like what you did there at the

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Speaker 1: plan on words by the way, uh, And this is

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Speaker 1: a significant report for us because it's aligned and aligned

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Speaker 1: with our new energy outlook, but also new for us

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Speaker 1: because we've not written about this before. So why is

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Speaker 1: this the time? Well, I'd say that demand for electricity

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Speaker 1: is like one of those big questions that people don't

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Speaker 1: talk about very much. We've been focused on the supply side,

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Speaker 1: one of the new technologies that meet demand over time,

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Speaker 1: but the question of what is demand look like is

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Speaker 1: a really big and important one, and we thought that, well,

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Speaker 1: what is one of the pieces that's moving most quickly

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Speaker 1: and in particular has a big impact on the shape

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Speaker 1: of demand and the size of electricity demand in the future.

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Speaker 1: And we look at their conditioning so UM, it's a

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Speaker 1: really interesting piece to work. It thinks about how consumers

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Speaker 1: buy air conditioning, UM and the drivers of that and

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Speaker 1: map step forward to So I want to know a

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Speaker 1: little bit more about these consumers. So let me just

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Speaker 1: preface and that we're sitting today in London, Bloomberg's European headquarters,

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Speaker 1: which is the most energy efficient building in the world. Now,

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Speaker 1: the nice thing about this is we are in a

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Speaker 1: perfectly temperature controlled environment. But this sort of building isn't

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Speaker 1: the sort of building that we are talking about in

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Speaker 1: this report, isn't. No, not at all. If you if

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Speaker 1: you think about a household in India, for example, um,

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Speaker 1: you know, the average household might be able to um

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Speaker 1: for the rice cooker and the TV and maybe they

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Speaker 1: have mobile phones, but it's India is a very hot place.

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Speaker 1: And what households in India care about as as we

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Speaker 1: do here, but maybe to a less extent because it's

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Speaker 1: not as hot as in India, is to feel comfortable

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Speaker 1: at home, to have um room temperature, room temperature that

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Speaker 1: is comp the board. And so if you don't have

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Speaker 1: the household income everything, you might be able to afford

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Speaker 1: this a fan, you know, and it makes the air

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Speaker 1: feel a bit cool, but it's not really what you

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Speaker 1: at the end of the day, what you want. So

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Speaker 1: many families in India in other places try to try

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Speaker 1: to be able to have a an air conditioner at home.

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Speaker 1: And this analysis looks exactly at this these questions trying

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Speaker 1: to understand where are we today in terms of household

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Speaker 1: ownership of air conditioners. In place like India, Southeast Asia,

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Speaker 1: and Latin America and trying to understand where do these

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Speaker 1: households by twenty fifty but the mid century get in

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Speaker 1: terms of you know, are they're wealthy enough to be

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Speaker 1: able to afford? And I think it's really interesting because

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Speaker 1: we know there is some relationship between air conditioning and productivity. Um.

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Speaker 1: And I think there's a statistic in the report Matias

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Speaker 1: where you have for every one degree above twenty five

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Speaker 1: degrees celsius, you get a minus two percent change in

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Speaker 1: performance in sort of business performance. And this was some

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Speaker 1: some studies that you looked at trying to capture that effect. Uh.

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Speaker 1: And there's I think there's a quote from who is

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Speaker 1: it who puts the economic success of their country down

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Speaker 1: to air conditioning? The founding part of South Korea right right?

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Speaker 1: And so I think that there is a beautiful connection

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Speaker 1: here between comfort and the ability to be productive in

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Speaker 1: hot and difficult climates. And so why is their conditioning important? Well,

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Speaker 1: because it's actually a development story as much as it

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Speaker 1: is an electricity story. I see why it's important. But

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Speaker 1: I'm thinking that might not be white people buy it.

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Speaker 1: So I'm seeing some of the one of the charts,

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Speaker 1: and for those you know who are listening today, I

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Speaker 1: know you can't see this, but I do urge you

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Speaker 1: to go into the report because there are some very

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Speaker 1: pretty charts in there, and one of the ones in

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Speaker 1: there you really compare other white goods that people might

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Speaker 1: be able to afford, and it seems to me that

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Speaker 1: it's much more about consumer case. So one example even

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Speaker 1: then you had was Vietnam and how they they look

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Speaker 1: like they're going to buy more air conditioning than anybody else,

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Speaker 1: And unless we're expecting their GDP to grow faster than

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Speaker 1: any other country in the entire world, that seems to

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Speaker 1: be much more around culture and taste and demand. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's actually very important if you if you you know,

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Speaker 1: if you look at countries in in in South Asia,

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Speaker 1: Asia or Southeast Asia, air conditions almost something like a

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Speaker 1: status symbol. It's it represents the entry into the middle class.

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Speaker 1: So you know, as I said before, you might be

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Speaker 1: able to um um afford a mobile phone or rice cooker,

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Speaker 1: but wants to have an air conditioner. That's almost like okay,

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Speaker 1: you finally got there. Where many many households in Europe

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Speaker 1: or the US already are so it's a state of symbol.

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Speaker 1: Of course, it has also something to do with culture.

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Speaker 1: If you look at the United States, almost n of

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Speaker 1: households have a have an air conditioner. In Europe, penetration

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Speaker 1: is much lower, so we tend in Europe, we tend

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Speaker 1: to use other forms of cooling. UM. So yeah, culture

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Speaker 1: of course plays a very important role. So just rewinding

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Speaker 1: really quickly, I want to know what these other forms

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Speaker 1: of cooling our versus what we're talking about. So you

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Speaker 1: mentioned very quickly in they're an evaporative air cooler, and

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Speaker 1: how does that different How does that differ from the

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Speaker 1: type of air conditioners that you're talking about. Well, an

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Speaker 1: actual air conditioner is much more powerful in terms of

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Speaker 1: providing cooling, but it also consumes much more electricity. So

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Speaker 1: on evaporative air cooler is something in between um, a

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Speaker 1: ceiling fan for example, an air conditioner. But I think

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Speaker 1: in the end eventually, what what people are trying to

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Speaker 1: have is a is a proper air conditioner that you

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Speaker 1: can really control and really reach a temperature level that

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Speaker 1: is um that is convenient and comfortable. So something that's

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Speaker 1: powered by hfc's and h c f c s or

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Speaker 1: the view there, Well, I mean, so the big problem

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Speaker 1: with air conditioning, of course, is not just that it

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Speaker 1: creates electricity demand, because that doesn't have to be a

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Speaker 1: bad thing, and in most of all this is a

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Speaker 1: great thing. Is that there are very potent greenhouse gases

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Speaker 1: associated with the refrigerants, and so I think as we've

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Speaker 1: taken action as a global community against ozone depleting substances,

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Speaker 1: we now have a second layer of challenge around refrigeration,

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Speaker 1: their conditioning and others similar things that what do we

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Speaker 1: do about the the HFCs that are replacing the CFC's

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Speaker 1: in the h CFCs UM and we like alphabet super

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Speaker 1: but I think these are very high global waring potential gases.

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Speaker 1: So a small amount of that is equivalent to a

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Speaker 1: lot of CEO two emissions UM. So that's an ongoing

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Speaker 1: problem and not something this report looks to address, And

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Speaker 1: in fact, we don't really talk about emissions at all

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Speaker 1: do It's most about the impact that air conditioning uptake

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Speaker 1: has on electricity demand, both the amount and the shape.

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Speaker 1: And I think that's one of the interesting things about

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Speaker 1: this is that we reckon air conditioning demand in developing

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Speaker 1: Asia particular is going to really reef reformat the intra

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Speaker 1: day electricity demand shape that means something for the solar

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Speaker 1: right on. One of the examples that you used, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's so compelling was Mexico and how where

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Speaker 1: it's hot there you see not only residential but utility

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Speaker 1: scale solar really rolling out. Tell us a little bit

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Speaker 1: more about that. So today, if you look at the

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Speaker 1: intra day demand profile of Mexico, that means, you know,

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Speaker 1: you look at when how electricity, how much electricity US

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Speaker 1: or households and industry consuming the morning versus in the evening.

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Speaker 1: You see that in Mexico as an evening peak. That

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Speaker 1: means that you know, as how as people come home

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Speaker 1: switch on their TV, is the air conditional units they

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Speaker 1: already have. You see a peak of demand um um

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Speaker 1: towards later hours in the evening. However, as Mexico develops,

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Speaker 1: as more and more households at top air conditioning, we

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Speaker 1: expect the maximum demand to shift from the evening to

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Speaker 1: during the day because that's when most businesses are operating

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Speaker 1: when they turn on their air conditions, but also some

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Speaker 1: households um you know, turn on their air conditioners, so

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Speaker 1: it's in the it's around the afternoon when we expect

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Speaker 1: most electricity to be demanded in the future, and that

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Speaker 1: has an impact on the when it's hardest in the day,

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Speaker 1: is what you're saying, because wherever anybody is, they're going

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Speaker 1: to want their air conditioning unit on. Exactly. What's important

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Speaker 1: is that people go to work, and you know, not

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Speaker 1: everyone is going to be at home at four in

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Speaker 1: the afternoon is going to turn on their air conditioning. However,

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Speaker 1: the the aggregate demand of businesses and households, based on

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Speaker 1: how analysis, peaks um um in the afternoon, and this

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Speaker 1: is when we when we expect the peak demand for

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Speaker 1: Mexico to um to appear in the future, to occur

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Speaker 1: in the future. So this aligns pretty well with what

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Speaker 1: was saying around the air conditioning could increase productivity, and

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Speaker 1: we're assuming that there will be an increase in energy

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Speaker 1: demand due to this while people are theoretically at work,

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Speaker 1: so it's not just going to be at home to

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Speaker 1: be comfortable, but to be comfortable while you are thinking

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Speaker 1: and trying to make money and increase your country's DDP exactly.

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Speaker 1: And maybe going back to what's mentioned before about you

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Speaker 1: know that those studies that we're sidding if you look

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Speaker 1: at the UM at how air conditioning has helped the

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Speaker 1: United States, for example, sixty seventy years ago, in becoming

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Speaker 1: more productive. There are several studies that show that, you know,

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Speaker 1: once air conditioning was introduced in offices, typists became more productive,

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Speaker 1: People had fewer sick days because the temperature in the

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Speaker 1: office became more comfortable. When people probably just um, you know,

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Speaker 1: we're more comfortable at their workplace, but also, um, we're

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Speaker 1: more productive. And we expect the same two to affect

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Speaker 1: developing countries, including Mexico. Speaking of productivity. In continuing with

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Speaker 1: this UM, one of the things that we don't talk

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Speaker 1: about here is industrial and UM, things like servers and

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Speaker 1: how much they're going to need in terms of cooling.

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Speaker 1: Is this on our wishless? Is this something where you

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Speaker 1: know it's notably absent and you decided not to cover

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Speaker 1: it because now is not the right time, um, or

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Speaker 1: because maybe something else I'm not considered. Well. The way

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Speaker 1: we structure this report is that our analysis is based

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Speaker 1: on households and small to medium sized businesses, so we're

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Speaker 1: not looking necessarily at large scale air conditioning systems such

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Speaker 1: as the one we have here at Bloomberg and the

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Speaker 1: question why it might be you know that the air

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Speaker 1: conditions in the system and dis biling is just running

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Speaker 1: twenty four hours probably anyway. But what we are interest

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Speaker 1: that is the impact on the demand profiles. So not

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Speaker 1: that like the steady demand that you have twenty four

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Speaker 1: hours anyway, but that the impact it has, you know,

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Speaker 1: when people come home and turn on their air conditioners. Um. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And underlying it all because it's households and small businesses,

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Speaker 1: what we're talking about here is consumer uptake and consumer uptake.

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Speaker 1: The modeling we do underlying consumer uptake, whether it's the

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Speaker 1: air conditioning work, or electric vehicles work, or the rooftop

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Speaker 1: PV and household batteries work, as a whole um suite

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Speaker 1: of different analyzes that we do looking at consumer uptake

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Speaker 1: and coming back to what you were saying earlier, Dana

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Speaker 1: about cultural norms and choices that is captured in consumer uptake,

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Speaker 1: because what we're really saying is there is it's an

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Speaker 1: economics that matter. The price has got to be right.

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Speaker 1: If you can't afford it, you can't afford it. But

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Speaker 1: once you can afford it, are you going to buy it?

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Speaker 1: And the answer and what we've seen across the world.

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Speaker 1: I when we look back at the historical data, is

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Speaker 1: that once countries can afford it, people start to add

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Speaker 1: air conditioning. There's some fundamental utility to this UM that

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Speaker 1: makes it look a lot like other consumer goods that

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Speaker 1: have fundamental utility, whether they're washing machines, radios, personal computers,

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Speaker 1: and the list goes on and on, and they will

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Speaker 1: have this S shaped curve. And so the job in

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Speaker 1: this analysis is to look at where countries are now,

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Speaker 1: try and think through where they are on this curve,

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Speaker 1: and therefore start to predict that uptake as those countries

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Speaker 1: get richer. And one of the things I thought was

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Speaker 1: really interesting Matis that you found was that this point

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Speaker 1: at which mass market uptake of air conditioning for households

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Speaker 1: and small businesses occurs is getting earlier on in terms

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Speaker 1: of household wealth. So cum households are less well off

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Speaker 1: when they buy their air conditioners than they used to

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Speaker 1: be UM back years ago, exactly. And this is quite

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Speaker 1: important for the analysis because otherwise we would need to

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Speaker 1: probably you would think that households in India will only

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Speaker 1: really adopted in twenty thirty years, but they start to

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Speaker 1: adopt it now. And one of the reasons is that

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Speaker 1: air conditions are getting cheaper. So in the nineteen thirties

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Speaker 1: nineteen four is when the first air conditioners were available

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Speaker 1: in the United States, they cost several thousand dollars only

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Speaker 1: the very very richest households could afford. But today you

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Speaker 1: can get a window air condition for two and fifty

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Speaker 1: dollars or split a c for three and fifty dollars.

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Speaker 1: What's causing them to get cheaper? Mass manufacturing UM, the Japanese,

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Speaker 1: the Indians, the the Americans are very good in producing this.

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Speaker 1: So it's just now that we have a very long

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Speaker 1: history of producing this, and we have seen this with

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Speaker 1: other appliances, with other technologies. You know, once you have

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Speaker 1: um um companies that mass produced, when once you have

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Speaker 1: high demand, cost just just keep falling. And this allows

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Speaker 1: um poorer households to afford this much ler than they

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Speaker 1: would have maybe fifty sixty years ago. But single units

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Speaker 1: going into a window kind of reminds me of the

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Speaker 1: skyline of New York exactly. So in in in in

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Speaker 1: places like um on places in Asia, you will see

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Speaker 1: simpler units as compared to what a household or a

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Speaker 1: house in in the US has. In the US most

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Speaker 1: of the time now you have a central air conditioner

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Speaker 1: that that caused the entire the entire house, while in

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Speaker 1: in smaller flats, in in in cities in China or

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Speaker 1: India you probably have a room air conditioner or a

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Speaker 1: wall mounted air conditioner. And most of the uptake that

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Speaker 1: we're projecting is an Asia story, Southeast Asia in particularly.

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Speaker 1: I think one of the statistics in the report says

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Speaker 1: that between China, India, and Indonesia, that's what two thirds

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Speaker 1: of ah um. Well, it's most of the world first

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Speaker 1: of all in terms of it's a large population, now,

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Speaker 1: that's right, but two thirds of air conditioning uptake um.

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Speaker 1: And so when we're looking at where is this going

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Speaker 1: to have the biggest impact and going to change um

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Speaker 1: sort of the business is usual. Most it's these countries

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Speaker 1: where particularly Indonesia and India that right now have what

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Speaker 1: five six penetration something like that, certainly single digits, and

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Speaker 1: as that ramps up to them as the county countries

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Speaker 1: get wealthier, um, if indeed they do, which we expect,

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Speaker 1: this gets everywhere and starts to really change the electricity

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Speaker 1: demand profile. Yeah, I mean in China today already has

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Speaker 1: a six ownership rate across the country. However, most of it,

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Speaker 1: or the big majority, is in cities. So most most

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Speaker 1: urban households already own an air condition in China, but

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Speaker 1: we expect over time that also rural households will adopt

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Speaker 1: air conditioning. So not every country will be, you know,

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Speaker 1: as fast as China. When you look at China's gdpeople

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Speaker 1: capital today and the ownership rate um they have, they're

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Speaker 1: very far ahead compared to others. But still it's an

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Speaker 1: indication that thanks to lower error conditional prices um um,

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Speaker 1: greater product availability, more advertisement um. You know, people being

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Speaker 1: connected around the world trying to you know, trying to

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Speaker 1: do what households in Europe and and and United States

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Speaker 1: do or have. UM. Yeah, we expect this to to

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Speaker 1: be faster than than in the past. So we're sitting

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Speaker 1: here in London, which is notorious for its temperate climate,

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Speaker 1: so I think this might be hard for us to

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Speaker 1: mentally push away from. But let's pretend like we're all

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Speaker 1: in India at the moment, and we've got some disposable income,

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Speaker 1: and we can choose between an air conditioner, a microwave.

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Speaker 1: Oh um, I think you listed on here, a washing

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Speaker 1: machine and a radio. Probably wouldn't take a radio. Um,

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Speaker 1: what would you pick first? And why, well, I'd pick

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Speaker 1: a washing machine. I mean this is getting a little

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Speaker 1: off topic, but I think the washing machine is one

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Speaker 1: of the great emancipating forces um of of the model

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Speaker 1: an era UM and so I think it's better to

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Speaker 1: be warm, um and and have well you don't want

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Speaker 1: someone in the household. And it's traditionally women of course

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Speaker 1: doing washing all day and that's what you have to

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Speaker 1: do without a machine, you know, you wash and cook

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Speaker 1: all day. So cookers and washers from a development perspective,

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Speaker 1: way more important than air conditioning. But as soon as

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Speaker 1: you get into inside work and you've got an economy

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Speaker 1: that's moving from more growing into and into industry and

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Speaker 1: services than air conditioning, I think really becomes that the

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Speaker 1: next phase of technologies that enables productivity and more rapid

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Speaker 1: GDP growth, which is which is pretty important. Yeah. I

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Speaker 1: mean air conditions are probably more important to people in

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Speaker 1: very hot countries than they are to us. This is

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Speaker 1: why air conditioner ownership here in the UK is very low.

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Speaker 1: In the US, it's it's quite high actually, but you

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Speaker 1: would probably expect that people in in in very hot

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Speaker 1: asis want to have an air condition earlier than than

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Speaker 1: in other places. So of course we all want to

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Speaker 1: have a mobile phone, we all want to have a TV,

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Speaker 1: but air conditioners are for sure on the very high

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Speaker 1: on the list of durable goods that people want to

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Speaker 1: have in in warm places. And so one of the

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Speaker 1: things about these air conditioners, and again we're not talking

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Speaker 1: about greenhouse gases in this report. It's energy demand all

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Speaker 1: of the way. But um I was reading in this

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Speaker 1: book called Project Drawdown, and of the emissions actually come

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Speaker 1: from them end of life. Do we have any idea

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Speaker 1: on how long these units actually last? Yeah, what I

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Speaker 1: assume in the report is that they last around fifteen years.

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Speaker 1: It's probably a um let's say, an optimistic um assumption,

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Speaker 1: but you can already see in Australia, in the United

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Speaker 1: States usually the last for fifteen years. Potentially, if you

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Speaker 1: know it's a very cheap unit, maybe it's on going

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Speaker 1: to the last ten years ten years. What could also

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Speaker 1: be is that you know, as you're getting rich or

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Speaker 1: you buy your first unit, then in five years you

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Speaker 1: think about it, maybe you want to have a better one,

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Speaker 1: you get rid of the old one. But usually UM,

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Speaker 1: I would probably want to think about ten to to

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Speaker 1: fifteen years lifetime for an air conditioner, and that I

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Speaker 1: mean and in terms of the disposal of these things,

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Speaker 1: I mean, I think it is I think it is

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Speaker 1: a problem. Um so as this report doesn't get into

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Speaker 1: the issues with emissions, but um in terms of the

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Speaker 1: the fluorinetic gases that that that are the problem in

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Speaker 1: terms of high global warming potential. But what it does

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Speaker 1: say is that if you're gonna have electricity demand growth

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Speaker 1: in the future, the more you can have during the day,

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Speaker 1: the more you can use renewables because it does line up.

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Speaker 1: And so for hot solar specifically solar specifically thank you, yes,

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Speaker 1: solar specifically, so from the hours that the sun is up,

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Speaker 1: the more electricity demand you can have during those time times,

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Speaker 1: the more you can meet demand with renewables. So whether

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Speaker 1: you move that demand around in whether it's here in

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Speaker 1: London or New York or somewhere with dynamic demand and

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Speaker 1: sort of flexibility that enables you to use electricity at

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Speaker 1: different times, or in somewhere like India or Southeast Asia

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Speaker 1: that demand growth happening during the day. Um you know

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Speaker 1: that means more renewables. And so that is a good

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Speaker 1: side of this story. Um, it aligns well with the

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Speaker 1: seasonal in atmindency issue as opposed to absolutely in Australia,

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Speaker 1: peak demand in summer used to be the time when

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Speaker 1: you turned on everything you had. The coal was running,

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Speaker 1: the gas was running, the oil fire generators are running,

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Speaker 1: and increasingly as there's there's more and more rooftop PV

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Speaker 1: in particular, but PV in general. Um, that peak is

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Speaker 1: getting shaved by those renewables, so that it's summer air

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Speaker 1: conditioning load which I don't know internal total peak at

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Speaker 1: plus in somewhere like Australi. It's a huge amount of

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Speaker 1: electricity demand being met by renewables. More and more is

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Speaker 1: a good news story. So there is some ecosystem of

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Speaker 1: pieces here that you know is going in the right direction.

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Speaker 1: But nothing, of course is so straightforward. And we have

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Speaker 1: this refrigerant high global wine potential gas issue that is

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Speaker 1: also It was also that do we have a view

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Speaker 1: on what this PV is going to look like? Is

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Speaker 1: it going to be rolled out alongside units that are

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Speaker 1: actually in these local communities or residential or because a

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Speaker 1: lot of it's happening in countries where maybe people are

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Speaker 1: um haven't always had access to electricity in the specific locales,

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Speaker 1: it's more going to be at the utility center. Well,

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Speaker 1: I mean as as part of our New Energy Outlook,

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Speaker 1: we we produce a forecast vote for small scale PV

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Speaker 1: as well as utility scale PV UM. So it really

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Speaker 1: depends country by country. How could your solar resources are,

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Speaker 1: what your retail tariff look retail terriffs look like, whether

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Speaker 1: they're very high, and whether it makes more sense to

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Speaker 1: UM to install a PV system rather than continue to

401
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Speaker 1: consume electricity from the grid. But definitely as if you

402
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Speaker 1: have a PV system UM that can provide the electricity

403
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,600
Speaker 1: to your air conditional unit, that's almost like a perfect symbiosis. However,

404
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Speaker 1: what's important is that many countries where it stays really

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Speaker 1: warm into the evening, at one point probably you know

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Speaker 1: you might need the electricity from the grid as your

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Speaker 1: PV panel is not producing anymore. So for a certain hours,

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Speaker 1: it's for certain out it's definitely perfect. Then you know,

409
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Speaker 1: once you go into the evening you you will need

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Speaker 1: UM other sources, which every place is different. So you're

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Speaker 1: mentioning the New Energy Outlook, when is that published? Because

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Speaker 1: we do this once a year that's right. So once

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Speaker 1: a year we combine as many of the brains as

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Speaker 1: we can get our hands on at B andF and

415
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Speaker 1: produce an outlook to the electricity sect. And it touches

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Speaker 1: on a number of other things across fields and materials,

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Speaker 1: and but it's hard in electricity forecast UM and it's

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Speaker 1: an economic spased forecast, so it's trying to give us

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Speaker 1: a view of all other things being equal, whereas the

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Speaker 1: economics going to take us and that is due to

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Speaker 1: be published I think at this stage on the eighteenth

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Speaker 1: of June UM, which is a Tuesday, I believe, and

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Speaker 1: we're working very hard to put that together. This work

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Speaker 1: in particular is going to feed into that as part

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Speaker 1: of the demand analysis, and alongside that we've got some

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Speaker 1: other interesting pieces of work that touch on demand. We're

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Speaker 1: going to look this year for the first time at

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Speaker 1: the electrification of heat. We're going to keep our powder

429
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Speaker 1: a little bit dry on exactly how we're going to

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Speaker 1: do that and what our conclusions are going to be,

431
00:24:37,119 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: but thinking about how heat provision in in in high

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Speaker 1: latitudes might be electrified, to what extent that could happen,

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Speaker 1: and what that would do to the electricity system, and

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Speaker 1: we're also planning on looking at a broader um view

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Speaker 1: on the electrification of transport beyond our electric Vehicle outlook,

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Speaker 1: which is that lead you to be published in the

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Speaker 1: middle of May, So that's coming up, I think on

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Speaker 1: the fifth eighth of May. That's due out and that

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Speaker 1: of course feeds into our new Energy outlook as well.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna look a bit more at transport, a

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Speaker 1: bit more at heat, think about air conditioning, and really

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Speaker 1: focus on demand a little bit and what that means

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Speaker 1: um and what electrification as a decarbonization strategy really means

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Speaker 1: for the future of the future system. And hopefully we'll

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Speaker 1: have some nice insights and some surprising, surprising findings that

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Speaker 1: come from that pole roads lead to the new Energy outlook.

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Speaker 1: So Matteas, thank you so much for joining us today

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Speaker 1: on Switched On. Thanks Sana for having us. Yeah, thanks,

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