Speaker 1: In today's episode of Tickets to the Draft Podcast, we
Speaker 1: talk JJ McCarthy why the wise is it just a
Speaker 1: smoke schien or is there something actually there? And we
Speaker 1: talk about the rattler. He's gaining momentum in the second
Speaker 1: or third round. What is his value there? We talk
Speaker 1: about our top five at every offensive position, and we
Speaker 1: have some very interesting research on the quarterback position. It
Speaker 1: could be the difference. It all starts right now. Welcome
Speaker 1: to the Ticket of the Draft podcast. Pers there by
Speaker 1: Seekeeek the official primary ticket partner of the Washington Commanders.
Speaker 1: I'm Logan Pulson here with just a guy, Jason, and
Speaker 1: we as always are talking draft contact. But like with
Speaker 1: every draft, you can't escape the quarterback discussion. It's always there.
Speaker 1: Here it is done dun dug. Specifically, two issues, right, Jason,
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about today. We're going to talk about
Speaker 1: two guys in particular.
Speaker 2: JJ McCarthy and bencer Radd.
Speaker 1: That's right.
Speaker 3: These are names that, like, I don't know if they're
Speaker 3: gonna be linked to the Commanders. I mean there's some
Speaker 3: talk about JJ, but they're just names that are out
Speaker 3: there right now. They're the hot top to talk about
Speaker 3: it quarterback. It seems like the top three it consensus
Speaker 3: top three, Caleb may Daniels. They've been talked about enough,
Speaker 3: so now the media is switching into McCarthy and Rattler
Speaker 3: and trying to dive into them. So we're going to
Speaker 3: do that for I don't know, maybe the commanders take
Speaker 3: one of them.
Speaker 1: Yeah, maybe we'll touch on it just in case. I
Speaker 1: think that's the thing. Man is like, like, let's start
Speaker 1: with McCarthy, I think, And you know, like the smoke
Speaker 1: stream thing, I think is interesting because there probably is
Speaker 1: an element of that. But all I know is that
Speaker 1: when I watched the film, and when I watch, like
Speaker 1: there's a cut up online, I forget who put it
Speaker 1: out there, but it's every one of his throws from Michigan,
Speaker 1: So all the good ones, all the bad ones, and
Speaker 1: I just can't stop watching it. I think I sent
Speaker 1: it to you the other day. Right. It's it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where you see the timing, you see
Speaker 1: the anticipation, you see the arm talent, you see his
Speaker 1: ability to kind of manipulate defenses with his eyes, and
Speaker 1: that's stuff that I think is high level NFL quarterback stuff. Now,
Speaker 1: is he a sure fire thing. Absolutely not. Like he
Speaker 1: has a hard time throwing to his left. He tends
Speaker 1: to overstride going that way, or when he's booting to
Speaker 1: his right, he consistently boots to his right as opposed
Speaker 1: to his left, so like he has a kind of
Speaker 1: a habit of doing that. Right. He doesn't know how
Speaker 1: to layer throws all the time. There's issues there. But
Speaker 1: when you watch, you say, man, it's it's not one
Speaker 1: to one because college is so different than the NFL.
Speaker 1: But you see a lot of transferable throws, and you
Speaker 1: see a lot of transferable talent, and you see a
Speaker 1: guy that's more athletic than a lot of people think,
Speaker 1: and you see a guy that's more competitive I think
Speaker 1: than people think. And I think all of those factors
Speaker 1: to me kind of we're going to talk about our
Speaker 1: quarterback rankings here in a little bit, kind of pushing
Speaker 1: him up my board as a guy with a really low,
Speaker 1: really high floor. You know, I think he gets in
Speaker 1: the right system, Like everyone's talking about him maybe going
Speaker 1: to Minnesota. That seems like the right kind of fit form. Right,
Speaker 1: He's going to run this kind of heavy play action offense.
Speaker 1: They're going to run the footba they're going to a
Speaker 1: lot of keepers where he's out of the pocket. Using
Speaker 1: that athleticism. He adds a little bit of seasoning when
Speaker 1: it comes to kind of his ability to do the
Speaker 1: quarterback RPO type stuff. I think that plays at the
Speaker 1: NFL level, but it kind of makes sense to me.
Speaker 1: I don't know where you fall out, though, Jason, like,
Speaker 1: how do you feel about it?
Speaker 2: Well?
Speaker 3: I feel like you said something on our last episode
Speaker 3: when you talk with some PFF guys, specifically with Sam Munson,
Speaker 3: that they even called out on their show, The PFF
Speaker 3: NFL Show. They were like, oh, Logan Paulson made a
Speaker 3: great point about JJ McCarthy, and you did, and it
Speaker 3: was that while it's not a perfect one to one,
Speaker 3: you get more one to one tape with McCarthy than
Speaker 3: any of the other quarterbacks because they run that pro
Speaker 3: style offense. They run the mesh concepts and whatnot, so
Speaker 3: you actually see it happening more than you see with
Speaker 3: the other quarterbacks. So it's easier to be like, oh,
Speaker 3: I feel good about that because I'm seeing it with
Speaker 3: my eyeballs.
Speaker 2: I'm not projecting it.
Speaker 1: And it's not even really like it's not even the concept.
Speaker 1: It's like the style. It's like how they run it,
Speaker 1: because a lot of people will run mesh, they'll run
Speaker 1: like a dig and it clearly run dagger is what
Speaker 1: I call it. But it's how he throws it. It's
Speaker 1: like on time, it's on rhythm. It's the these tight windows.
Speaker 1: He's like putting it in between defenders. He's throwing with anticipation,
Speaker 1: and so I think stylistically it also feels right too,
Speaker 1: because you're getting the you're getting the NFL concept, which
Speaker 1: a lot of teams run college concept NFL concept. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of crossover there, but you're getting the concept crossover,
Speaker 1: but you're also you're getting an execution crossover, which to
Speaker 1: me it's like, oh, this is this is a Sunday throw.
Speaker 1: And I just find myself with him saying that all
Speaker 1: the time, and I think that it kind of makes
Speaker 1: you fall in love with it because the projection becomes
Speaker 1: that much easier. Because does that makes sense?
Speaker 3: Yeah, And you're always talking about what you want to
Speaker 3: do in the draft, as most gms, what they're trying
Speaker 3: to do in a draft is risk aversion, right, So
Speaker 3: if I can see it, then I would rather In
Speaker 3: some instance there's there's something pulling at them. I would
Speaker 3: rather take that than the projection. When this end, well
Speaker 3: maybe he can do it. So that's why I think
Speaker 3: McCarthy's kind of moving up these boards because gms and
Speaker 3: scouts are looking at going like, oh well, I feel
Speaker 3: more comfortable in my evaluation being correct here. There's less
Speaker 3: risk with JJ McCarthy. Now does that mean the ceilings
Speaker 3: is high?
Speaker 2: I don't know.
Speaker 3: But so my question, I want to go back for
Speaker 3: a second about the smoke screen idea. Oh yeah, so
Speaker 3: once players have or gms have this evaluation on JJ McCarthy,
Speaker 3: why would a smoke screen come in? Like why would
Speaker 3: Washington do that? What's the are other teams doing that?
Speaker 3: Do you think that this is like a couple of
Speaker 3: teams I don't want to say like getting together and
Speaker 3: like oh we're going to do this, but like a
Speaker 3: couple of teams at want quarterbacks all saying well, let's
Speaker 3: all say JJ McCarthy. Maybe that throws someone off the
Speaker 3: scent that Drake may may then fall to us, right,
Speaker 3: so maybe like maybe the Giants right would be like
Speaker 3: Drake may falls to the Giants, like they'd be super thrilled.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So I think with the smoke screen thing. I
Speaker 1: think if you so. For example, I think if you
Speaker 1: pulled everyone in the NFL, I think you'd probably have
Speaker 1: you know, most people would say Caleb Williams is one,
Speaker 1: but then the two three, four guys probably get a
Speaker 1: little bit mixed up depending on who you talk to,
Speaker 1: because you talk to somebody and they'll say may Is
Speaker 1: you know, he's a bomb, He's the next brock Asswiler. Right.
Speaker 1: I don't feel that way, but like, there are people
Speaker 1: that you can find they would say that, right. Or
Speaker 1: you know, JJ McCarthy's the you know, he's the most
Speaker 1: polished quarterback prospect since Andrew Luck. Like, I don't agree
Speaker 1: with that either, but you hear people that say that, right.
Speaker 1: So I think if there's three guys in the mix,
Speaker 1: and one of those one of those other teams, let's
Speaker 1: just take Minnesota because they're like the most likely trade
Speaker 1: up category. Right. Let's say let's say JJ is my
Speaker 1: number one guy, and now all of a sudden, Washington's
Speaker 1: talking about them at two. Maybe that sweetens the trade
Speaker 1: offer for Washington because that's their guy. Right, So let
Speaker 1: me just said, hey, you know, we know other teams
Speaker 1: might like this guy. We're all so interested in them. Now,
Speaker 1: what are you gonna do if you want one of
Speaker 1: these three guys? You want to ensure you get these
Speaker 1: three guys. We are the person you have to deal with, right,
Speaker 1: because you're you're not gonna be able to deal with
Speaker 1: just New England. You're not gonna be able to deal
Speaker 1: with just Arizona, because we might actually take the guy
Speaker 1: that you want.
Speaker 3: So I'm a younger brother. I have two older brothers, okay, right,
Speaker 3: and back in the day, we used to go to
Speaker 3: Blockbuster Video thrun a.
Speaker 1: Movie referenced by you excellent, and my.
Speaker 3: Brothers would go up and I would say, oh, I
Speaker 3: want to rent. We each got the rent one movie.
Speaker 3: And I go up and I say I want I
Speaker 3: want Jurassic Park. And my older brother would be like, no,
Speaker 3: I want Jurassic Park. Get out of here, pick a
Speaker 3: different movie. This is my movie. I'll watch it when
Speaker 3: I want with my friends. You're not invited. And it
Speaker 3: was very much of like this kind of bullying right
Speaker 3: to get me. It just made me want Dress Park
Speaker 3: more and more and more and more and more. Right,
Speaker 3: And then I would go complain in my mind. Now,
Speaker 3: obviously I'm a child, but I think this is kind
Speaker 3: of the same thing, right, like you like you were
Speaker 3: saying Minnesota, Oh, well, we kind of like JJ McCarthy
Speaker 3: and then the Big Brother and the room the commanders
Speaker 3: are like, well we like them, right, So if you
Speaker 3: really want them, you may have to talk to us.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you may have to talk to us.
Speaker 3: And if we're nice about it, right, and you know,
Speaker 3: being nice about it means give me three first round picks, right,
Speaker 3: you know something like that.
Speaker 2: So yeah, that's what I think. That's what the point
Speaker 2: of the smoke screen stuff is. Now.
Speaker 3: I don't know if we're gonna take JJ McCarthy or
Speaker 3: not here. I mean, maybe we will, maybe we won't,
Speaker 3: But it like that's what some of these top teams
Speaker 3: are doing with him and why he's getting so much
Speaker 3: talk right now.
Speaker 1: I think so. But I also think it's it's weird
Speaker 1: because I also think it's justified. And I think it
Speaker 1: depends on how you look at the process and agin
Speaker 1: we're gonna talk about our quarterback stuff later. But like
Speaker 1: Drake may probably has the highest ceiling of the next
Speaker 1: group of guys after Caleb Williams, right, extremely high ceiling,
Speaker 1: you know, Ella says like low floors is jayde and
Speaker 1: Daniel or High Floors is Jade Daniels and JJ McCarthy.
Speaker 1: So if you're if you're an evaluator and that risk
Speaker 1: aversion is important to you and you don't have a
Speaker 1: plan for developing Drake May, necessarily you're going to lean
Speaker 1: towards those guys. So I don't think it's totally unrealistic
Speaker 1: and especially and this is one of those things that
Speaker 1: I wanted to bring up, like it's it's really frustrating
Speaker 1: for me as a talent evaluator because I've seen JJ
Speaker 1: Pennix and Nick's throw in person, but I haven't seen
Speaker 1: Jane danielsrow in person. And I have not seen Drake
Speaker 1: maythrown person. But I think of the guys that I've seen,
Speaker 1: Jane and Daniel or not je JJ McCarthy has the
Speaker 1: best arm outside of Joe Milton that I've seen, right,
Speaker 1: And so I'm as far as our strength arm strength,
Speaker 1: So I'm like really high on his arm talent, But
Speaker 1: would i be higher on the other guy's arm talent
Speaker 1: if I'd seen them throw in person? So it's one
Speaker 1: of those things where it's like it's there's there's levels
Speaker 1: to this, right, So I think I'm actually higher on
Speaker 1: JJ's arm talent, and I think he's got more upside.
Speaker 1: But it's it's it's all. It's all a matter of
Speaker 1: perspective and opinion, and I think that's where it's like.
Speaker 1: So for me, these three guys, depending on who you
Speaker 1: talk to, you could probably get someone to say this
Speaker 1: is my guy, And all you need is one team
Speaker 1: or two teams to say JJ's the second best quarterback.
Speaker 1: Because that not the opportunity to trade up becomes more real.
Speaker 3: I guess I wonder if the response to this smoke
Speaker 3: screen with JJ and all these quarterback talks at the
Speaker 3: top is a team like Minnesota saying like, you know what,
Speaker 3: we're cool, we'll just take the Rattler. Yeah, the right,
Speaker 3: which is I think why he's getting a lot of
Speaker 3: push right now. There is a lot of talk about
Speaker 3: Spencer Ratler not going high, but teams being like, you
Speaker 3: know what, he's got enough traits second round, We're fine
Speaker 3: with that, right. So with that, do you think that
Speaker 3: that's part of why Rattler's getting a little more talk
Speaker 3: around the around the NFL right now.
Speaker 1: Honestly, I hadn't thought of it that way, but that's
Speaker 1: probably why, I think, you know, once you realize that
Speaker 1: a lot of these quarterbacks are going to get pushed
Speaker 1: up a little bit. And it's interesting because the media
Speaker 1: is always super high on quarterbacks every day do the
Speaker 1: draft stuff. They're always really high on quarterbacks, they push
Speaker 1: them up boards, and most often, outside of a couple exceptions,
Speaker 1: like it ends up falling kind of as it would have,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of before the draft type started going.
Speaker 1: So what I mean by that is JJ will probably
Speaker 1: go between eleven and fifteen, and then bow Nix will go,
Speaker 1: you know, twenty five to thirty five, and Michael Pennix
Speaker 1: will go thirty five to forty. So but if that
Speaker 1: doesn't happen, like if all those guys get really pushed
Speaker 1: up the board, then I do think you're looking at
Speaker 1: like who's the best who can actually physically play the
Speaker 1: position from a trade standpoint, And the list outside of
Speaker 1: those guys is relatively short. And so that's why Rattler
Speaker 1: gets pushed up, right, because he's got these physical traits,
Speaker 1: he's got this leadership quality. You know. I talked to
Speaker 1: the coach down at at his school and he was
Speaker 1: basically saying he's been great, you know, and I think, yeah,
Speaker 1: he has this reputation of you know, because of the
Speaker 1: Netflix stuff, but you know, I think he's grown out
Speaker 1: of that and he's and when you watch him at
Speaker 1: the Senior Bowl, he's he is very talented. He can
Speaker 1: move around, he's got a live arm, he's got different
Speaker 1: arm angles, he's got different throws. And so you say, well, man,
Speaker 1: if if this is it, if if if, if all
Speaker 1: those other guys are gone, who can physically do it
Speaker 1: and become a starting quarterback in the NFL. Because we
Speaker 1: have that, We have that sheet that we that Google
Speaker 1: doc we work off of, and we literally have a column.
Speaker 1: I have a column and it says can they physically
Speaker 1: play in the NFL. That's the head that's the header
Speaker 1: of the column, and it's yes or no. And once
Speaker 1: you get to quarterback, there becomes a lot of questions
Speaker 1: about arm talent, about physical size, and he's not a
Speaker 1: big guy, but he does have the arm talent to
Speaker 1: do it at the next level. I think that's why
Speaker 1: people get super excited about his opportunity at the next level.
Speaker 3: We also I can't remember which time when Sikama from
Speaker 3: PFF was one, but he talked about Rattler with us,
Speaker 3: and he mentioned, you know, this guy gets pressured a
Speaker 3: lot South Carolina and so like more than anybody else.
Speaker 3: And he stayed calm, he stayed composed. Yeah, there were
Speaker 3: some like what are you doing throws, but when there's
Speaker 3: four guys in your face, sometimes that happens. And the
Speaker 3: question was if he plays behind a good O line,
Speaker 3: what could this guy be because the arm talent is there,
Speaker 3: and I think that's the projection that some teams are
Speaker 3: looking at now is like, yeah, all right, so we
Speaker 3: may miss out on some of these top quarterbacks, but
Speaker 3: if we get a really solid wide receiver, if we
Speaker 3: get a really solid offensive lineman in the early first round,
Speaker 3: and in the second round we take Spencer Raller, we're
Speaker 3: fine with that because we see the potential there. Now,
Speaker 3: he's short, like you said, I think he's only six foot,
Speaker 3: but his arm is live. What everybody is saying that's
Speaker 3: been around him is he is completely matured from that
Speaker 3: guy that was on the Netflix documentary and it looks
Speaker 3: like he's ready to lead a team.
Speaker 2: He's a leader, and.
Speaker 1: I think that's where you get in that like why
Speaker 1: he's getting why he's being valued is because there's not
Speaker 1: a lot of people that can play quarterback in the NFL.
Speaker 1: And if you think he can, right, let's take a
Speaker 1: shot on him and see what happens. And and like
Speaker 1: you said, maybe he doesn't have to start right away.
Speaker 1: Maybe he can sit for a couple of years. Maybe
Speaker 1: he's you know the guy up in Green Bay Love.
Speaker 1: You know, he's not starting right away, They sit him
Speaker 1: for a couple of years and he becomes something special.
Speaker 1: Is it likely? I think probably not, But is it
Speaker 1: a possibility? Yes, And I think that's why people are
Speaker 1: talking about him.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Absolutely, putting you on the spot.
Speaker 3: What's the percentage chance that Washington trades Attitude or take
Speaker 3: somebody else at to not a quarterback and then later
Speaker 3: goes with a rattler or someone like him, I'd.
Speaker 1: Say pretty low. I think, you know, as we kind
Speaker 1: of move towards the draft, it's becoming more clear based
Speaker 1: on some of the moves the teams made the conversation.
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's outside the realm of possibility, but
Speaker 1: I think, you know, we kind of knew this all along.
Speaker 1: We've talked about this a ton. They're the offer to
Speaker 1: for them to trade out would need to be huge, right,
Speaker 1: And if a team's not willing to present that offer
Speaker 1: to you, then we're going to stick and pick two.
Speaker 2: I think kicking pick seems like what they're doing, and.
Speaker 1: So i'd say that's probably ninety five like I was
Speaker 1: putting money out, like, that's ninety five percent probably going
Speaker 1: to happen. You get that ten percent where you trade
Speaker 1: back in the first round, maybe trade back up that
Speaker 1: seven percent, and then that three percent where you stick
Speaker 1: and pick a non quarterback and then draft Spencer Rattlers.
Speaker 1: Probably you know, it's weight one percent.
Speaker 3: I want to put it past Peters in the front
Speaker 3: office here to pick up the phone. Oh right at
Speaker 3: number two, right, Like, I think that offer could potentially
Speaker 3: be out there, but it seems like it's going to
Speaker 3: be a stick and pick thing unless it looks like
Speaker 3: Minnesota would be the team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, and I definitely think the offer. I think they've
Speaker 1: they've probably engaged with teams, they've probably heard different offers,
Speaker 1: but as of today, I don't think any offer has
Speaker 1: been big enough for them to move out of that
Speaker 1: spot because it's going to need to be like what
Speaker 1: the Bears got last year. It's going to need to
Speaker 1: be franchise changing, and our team's willing to be franchised
Speaker 1: changing for guys. As again, we're going to talk about
Speaker 1: our quarterback ranks in a little bit. That all have
Speaker 1: question marks, you know, and I don't know. I don't
Speaker 1: know if they if you're going to get the same
Speaker 1: type of haul for that.
Speaker 3: Yeah, we're going to do top fives of every offensive position.
Speaker 3: Next podcast will do every defense position. So yeah, we're
Speaker 3: going to do our top fives of quarterbacks here in
Speaker 3: a moment. But before we get there, I wanted to
Speaker 3: talk to you about a conversation you and I were
Speaker 3: having over text message this week, and that was for me,
Speaker 3: this whole process once football college football has stopped, I
Speaker 3: have I consistently forget how good some of these guys
Speaker 3: are at game speed, right in the game. And specifically,
Speaker 3: I was talking with you about Jayden Daniels, who could
Speaker 3: very well go to the Commanders at number two, and he,
Speaker 3: like you said, I haven't seen him thrown in person.
Speaker 3: We've seen some of these other guys do that the
Speaker 3: post the post game process for the draft, so the
Speaker 3: Senior Bowl, the combines, the pro days. He hasn't stood
Speaker 3: out to me, but I go back and I watch
Speaker 3: his film and I'm like.
Speaker 2: Holy cow.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So my question for you is, how do you remind
Speaker 3: yourself that this post game, all this all this leading
Speaker 3: right up to the draft, all this measurable stuff, all
Speaker 3: this throwing the ball without anybody in your face, and
Speaker 3: it's with the guy that you've thrown the ball to
Speaker 3: for four years. In some instances, how much do you say, Okay,
Speaker 3: all that looks great with JJ McCarthy for example, Right,
Speaker 3: but remember the game tape. Right, we gotta look back
Speaker 3: at the game tape and how it plays there.
Speaker 2: How much do you weigh that?
Speaker 3: And how much do you get caught up in this
Speaker 3: little pre draft process here.
Speaker 1: I mean, obviously I haven't caught up a little bit
Speaker 1: of it with JJ, you know, because I've seen him
Speaker 1: a bunch. I think with Jay, and it's been relatively
Speaker 1: easy because like, the only event that I really would
Speaker 1: have wanted to see him at was the Senior Bowl,
Speaker 1: you know, just to see him throw in person and
Speaker 1: just see how he is. Like, maybe if he throws
Speaker 1: at the Combine, great, I don't really care. If he
Speaker 1: throws at a Senior Bowl should be fine. It was fine,
Speaker 1: And I think for me it's just about remembering who
Speaker 1: the guys are, you know. So for like most of
Speaker 1: these guys, you have a pretty good understanding, especially the
Speaker 1: top guys's pretty good understanding of who they are and
Speaker 1: what they do. And I think with him, it's like,
Speaker 1: you know, what does he do well? He's got a
Speaker 1: great fundamentals, He's got a quick release, he has great
Speaker 1: deep ball accuracy. He sees the field, I think a
Speaker 1: little bit better than people think. He's a tremendous athlete.
Speaker 1: Has anything about the process changed that for me? No,
Speaker 1: Like when I watch his pro day, I'm like, I
Speaker 1: think he I think in some ways I think his
Speaker 1: release might be better after seeing him just throw by himself.
Speaker 1: It's a little bit quicker, but I knew it was
Speaker 1: quick anyway. So like, that's who he's been. I think
Speaker 1: with a guy like JJ, it's different because I've been
Speaker 1: exposed tomorrow twenty two, I've watched more film. I've seen
Speaker 1: what type of athlete he is, and he didn't have
Speaker 1: an opportunity to show that in college. It's the same
Speaker 1: thing with like Darius Robinson going to the Sea Bowl, right,
Speaker 1: he was playing a five technique kind of this run
Speaker 1: stopping defensive tax, defensive end, highbred, and all of a
Speaker 1: sudden he moves to the edge and you're like, holy cow,
Speaker 1: this guy's an absolute animal. He can actually win with
Speaker 1: power and has some pass roustability and you see something different.
Speaker 1: So I think that's why with JJ, it moves up
Speaker 1: with Jade, and it kind of stays the same with Caleb,
Speaker 1: but kind of stays the same with Drake. It's been
Speaker 1: interesting to watch because again, like but because he's kind
Speaker 1: of regressed a little bit in my mind, and it
Speaker 1: regress sounds like a negative thing. It is. I still
Speaker 1: thinks he's probably again the highest ceiling of the non
Speaker 1: Caleb Williams is, but that's that's from the film. That's
Speaker 1: not from anything he's done in this process. And I
Speaker 1: think that's true of all these guys. So it always
Speaker 1: goes back to the film. It always goes back to
Speaker 1: that opportunity. But yeah, I think like if you have
Speaker 1: a pretty good feel for who the player is, then
Speaker 1: the post strafts, the post season stuff doesn't doesn't matter
Speaker 1: as much unless it's changing the narrative on the guy.
Speaker 1: And I think JJ McCarthy is a is a pretty
Speaker 1: good example of that of that change.
Speaker 3: Yeah, I completely agree. I mean this being the first
Speaker 3: time for me, I have to remind myself to go
Speaker 3: back and look at the tape.
Speaker 2: I get caught up everything that's going on right now,
Speaker 2: which I do.
Speaker 3: I've watched the same couple of videos over and over
Speaker 3: and over again because it's been a couple of weeks
Speaker 3: since I've seen it, and I need to go back
Speaker 3: and just refresh my memory of how good or how
Speaker 3: suspects some things were.
Speaker 2: Get any given player.
Speaker 3: All right, I did a whole research packet on quarterbacks,
Speaker 3: but let's save that for when we talk about the
Speaker 3: top five quarterbacks because we have we disagree a little bit, yep,
Speaker 3: And maybe we can look at this pack to see
Speaker 3: if it supports or refutes any of our arguments that
Speaker 3: we make there. All right, So what we're gonna do
Speaker 3: is we're gonna do top fives plus one. And what
Speaker 3: that is is we're going to go through every single
Speaker 3: position on offense. We're going to group wide receiver and
Speaker 3: tight ends together as pass catchers just for brevity sake.
Speaker 3: I promise you you'll get a tight end segment in
Speaker 3: the future. But we're gonna do offensive line, running back,
Speaker 3: wide receiver, tight end, pass catchers, and then quarterbacks, and
Speaker 3: we're going to do our top rankings in that position.
Speaker 3: And then the plus one and the plus one means
Speaker 3: just a guy we want to talk about. He may
Speaker 3: not be in the top five, top ten, he may
Speaker 3: not even be in the top twenty, as just a
Speaker 3: guy we want to mention because we don't talk about
Speaker 3: him enough and he sticks out to us. So it's
Speaker 3: that plus one two, Like when you go to a wedding,
Speaker 3: that plus one when you're looking for someone, it's like,
Speaker 3: does this person really match with the wedding. No, it's
Speaker 3: just a friend of mine that's helping me out, doesn't
Speaker 3: know a brider groom. He's just here or she's just
Speaker 3: here whatever. All right, yeah, okay, so that's what we're doing.
Speaker 3: So let's start with all O line logan go five
Speaker 3: to one, Yeah, five.
Speaker 1: Five to one. So I'm going Joe alt to Lasi Fuaga,
Speaker 1: Troy Fatano from Washington obviously, Tulisa Fauga's from Oregon State,
Speaker 1: Olufshano Penn State, and then Amarius Mims from Georgia at
Speaker 1: five for me.
Speaker 3: Yeah, so you went one to five, which is fine,
Speaker 3: one to five, five it's fine, it's fine. I just
Speaker 3: don't want to confuse our listeners, all right. One for
Speaker 3: me is also Joe Alt, which surprised me by the way,
Speaker 3: because our pod we did with our top fifty.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you did not have as number one, So that's interesting.
Speaker 2: I want to talk to you about that.
Speaker 3: Uh oulu Fashanu for me at Penn State is number
Speaker 3: two to Leasy Fuaga from Oregon States three, Troy Fatanu
Speaker 3: Washington is four, and then Jackson Powers Johnson is five,
Speaker 3: and I'll defend that. I'll defend that we can do
Speaker 3: all right. So something that sticks out to me is
Speaker 3: you flipped Fuanga and it seems like in the last
Speaker 3: couple of weeks.
Speaker 1: Why is that. I think it came down to Fooga's
Speaker 1: past protection. It wasn't anything that Joe did or Joe
Speaker 1: Alt's film did it just was it because you're splitting hairs? Really,
Speaker 1: So with Fuaga, like I like him a lot. I
Speaker 1: like watching him. I like his approach, I like his demeanor.
Speaker 1: I just worry that he's going to be a guard
Speaker 1: at the next level, you know, Like that's something that
Speaker 1: I keep coming back to him, Like I think he's
Speaker 1: got the twitchiness to be a good tackle, but is
Speaker 1: he going to be an excellent guard? And so, like,
Speaker 1: I feel that's why it's still pretty high on my list,
Speaker 1: because I'm very confident that either he's going to be
Speaker 1: a good right tackle or an excellent guard, He's going
Speaker 1: to be a pro offensive lineman some capacity. It's just
Speaker 1: if you're looking for a tackle, like I think Joe
Speaker 1: Walt's a tackle, you know, I think he's a tackle
Speaker 1: through and through. I think that you know, we mentioned
Speaker 1: some inconsistencies about his technique to give me pause, about
Speaker 1: his physical development, to give me pause. But I think ultimately,
Speaker 1: when you go back to the film, he's got a
Speaker 1: good feel for his relationship to the rusher. He's got
Speaker 1: a good play strength, he's got a nice kind of
Speaker 1: competitive edge to him. He's a very solid prospect with
Speaker 1: a good with a good ceiling. So I think that's
Speaker 1: kind of where I kind of came back. I was like, Man,
Speaker 1: can I really put a guy that I don't love
Speaker 1: his past protection mechanics ahead of a guy that's just
Speaker 1: been incredibly solid throughout his career. And my answer was
Speaker 1: ultimately no, So.
Speaker 3: Yeah, all right, So I don't want to argue for
Speaker 3: oluf Fashanu anymore. I feel like I do that all
Speaker 3: the time. I like oluf Fashanu at number two, like
Speaker 3: you have him a little further down.
Speaker 1: At four four.
Speaker 3: Yeah, and I get all your reasonings of why. I
Speaker 3: also was thinking the other day, I wonder if, like
Speaker 3: his power is not matching his athleticism. So I'm questioning
Speaker 3: him just a little little bit. But coming from Penn State,
Speaker 3: who has a really good strength and conditioning program there,
Speaker 3: like super good and every now and then, he just
Speaker 3: he can get overpowered.
Speaker 2: For as big as he.
Speaker 3: Is, I'm wondering if that's a mix between technique and
Speaker 3: maybe some strength issues here as well.
Speaker 2: But he's so young. I just think he'll keep building there.
Speaker 1: That's the thing I keep calling back to with him, though,
Speaker 1: it's like, yeah, I love the athlete. I like how
Speaker 1: he moves. He's competitive, you know, he's got those small hands.
Speaker 1: He's not like I kind of wonder if he's going
Speaker 1: to be like Anton Harrison, who's a good pro but
Speaker 1: is kind of limited because he's not overly strong. Like
Speaker 1: when you watch like, I'm glad you put Jackson powers
Speaker 1: Johnson on here, because like there's no question to me
Speaker 1: when you watch Jackson Powers Johnson, the center from Oregon,
Speaker 1: that he is strong enough and physical enough to play
Speaker 1: at the NFL level. There's no question, no question, he's
Speaker 1: a good enough athlete. The reason he's not on my
Speaker 1: list is because he's not I don't think scheme agnostic.
Speaker 1: I think he can. I think he's a very specific
Speaker 1: type of player. But is he is he an NFL
Speaker 1: offensive lineman that's going to be pretty good? Yes, It's
Speaker 1: just about what is the value of what he brings?
Speaker 1: I guess.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: So let me talk about Jackson Powers Johnson for a second.
Speaker 3: Why he's at number five for me, which is pretty
Speaker 3: high for a center, And that's because I think it's
Speaker 3: just you know what you're getting with, right. If he
Speaker 3: were a tackle, Like, if he played tackle and he
Speaker 3: had the skill sets of tackle, he'd be one or two.
Speaker 3: But because he's a center, and like everything's about the
Speaker 3: center vision, I think that's why he falls because there's
Speaker 3: not really a whole lot I'm concerned about with him
Speaker 3: as an actual player.
Speaker 2: He's just a bulldozer.
Speaker 3: He moves people, he's mean, he's nasty, he's athletic for
Speaker 3: his build. So that's why I put him at five
Speaker 3: because if you're gonna you know what you're getting when
Speaker 3: you take him, and that's a good NFL player.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think for me it's like, is he
Speaker 1: can he run the outside zone? I don't think he can.
Speaker 1: Like Creed Humphrey is a big guy like him, they're
Speaker 1: kind of built in a similar way. Creed is a
Speaker 1: little bit more hit flexible and like upper back flexible
Speaker 1: where he can kind of dip in and reach a nose.
Speaker 1: I know he did it at the Senior Bowl. He
Speaker 1: looked pretty good doing it. I'm talking about Jackson powers Johnson. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's not consistently on hape and it could be
Speaker 1: because he's playing with some young guards that don't help
Speaker 1: him out in that area. But I just again like
Speaker 1: I think you could have you'll have teams that have
Speaker 1: him number one, or Zach Fraser from West Virginia because
Speaker 1: Zach Fraser is kind of that squirrelly, smaller center, very
Speaker 1: Jason Kelsey esque in terms of how he plays. Not
Speaker 1: quite the same athlete, but but similar. And so I
Speaker 1: think you're gonna have guys that say, oh, I actually
Speaker 1: like this kid from West Virginia more and as opposed
Speaker 1: to Jack. So that's why he's not in my top five.
Speaker 1: But I think he's a good football player. I think
Speaker 1: he's going to play in the NFL for a long time. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's just like, you know, I think he's got to
Speaker 1: go to a team like Baltimore that's gonna run a
Speaker 1: lot of gaps stuff and be very downhill and not
Speaker 1: ask him to get outside of his frame too much
Speaker 1: in terms of he can do it. But I don't
Speaker 1: think you want him majoring in that kind of athletic
Speaker 1: movement type stuff.
Speaker 3: Yeah, talk about Ameriusmims because that's a little bit of
Speaker 3: a contract there.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So for me, I you know, I obviously JC Latham,
Speaker 1: You've got Tyler Geidener, guys that I wanted to put
Speaker 1: in here and I was thinking about putting in here.
Speaker 1: You know, Graant Barton was another guy that I thought
Speaker 1: about putting in here. And Graham Barton's film is excellent.
Speaker 1: I think he's probably more of a guard. That's why
Speaker 1: he's not on this list specifically. But Amarus Mims, like
Speaker 1: when you watch him, all the questions I have about
Speaker 1: JC Latham's ability athletically, divertically passet are not there. The
Speaker 1: same thing with Geidon, Like the physicality that Guidon plays with,
Speaker 1: Like he's he's got a little bit of a baby
Speaker 1: deer to him in the sense that he's he's kind
Speaker 1: of bendy. He's strong, but he doesn't have this great anchor.
Speaker 1: And I want to look at a Marius Mims like
Speaker 1: he has. He's got that twitch to him, he's got
Speaker 1: the power to him. He's a tremendous athlete, he's got
Speaker 1: the frame, he's young. And if you just look at
Speaker 1: the seven games, just watch those seven games, Like his
Speaker 1: film is the best of that group of people, but
Speaker 1: it's only seven games. So like I'm acknowledging that this
Speaker 1: is a little bit of a flyer here, and there
Speaker 1: are picks that are safer. I just look at his
Speaker 1: ceiling and I'm like, if you could get this guy,
Speaker 1: you know, between twenty five and third five or whatever,
Speaker 1: you'd be doing backflips if he can stay healthy. And
Speaker 1: because the physical tools are there in a way that
Speaker 1: none of these other guys are. Like when you say, like, physically,
Speaker 1: who's the most ready to play tackle in the NFL,
Speaker 1: I think you're either saying him or Troy Fatana, Like
Speaker 1: like that kind of is what you're dealing with there. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but it's but he's hurt all the time. So if
Speaker 1: you if you, if you feel good that that's not
Speaker 1: an issue for him, then I think he's your guy.
Speaker 1: So that's why I put him in there, just because
Speaker 1: I think that the physical talent the film. Again, it's
Speaker 1: only seven games, but he's playing Ohio State, he's playing Alabama,
Speaker 1: and he looks like he's the big It looks like
Speaker 1: you're watching high school football and you got the guy
Speaker 1: going D one and everybody else is just a normal
Speaker 1: high school player, which is very unusual to see. So
Speaker 1: that talent, that frame, that ability is so unique. And
Speaker 1: I think if he gets in the right situation, like
Speaker 1: you're going to be like hell, he could end up
Speaker 1: being the best player in the class. Yeah, if he's healthy.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: We we mentioned a couple of times like he's an Avenger.
Speaker 3: He's built like that kind of thing, and he kind
Speaker 3: of is right if you think about the Marvel movies, right,
Speaker 3: and when you first get Hawk, right, when he first
Speaker 3: becomes a Hawk, Bruce Banner, Yeah, a little a little
Speaker 3: out of control, doesn't quite know, but the physical tools
Speaker 3: are there. So the Avengers are like you know, what,
Speaker 3: we'll bring them on, we'll train them up, we'll learn
Speaker 3: to control the anger, right, control that stuff. But he's
Speaker 3: just such a physical freak. He's got to be on
Speaker 3: the team. And that's what Amaruswims is like, he's he's
Speaker 3: a rale avenger. Yeah, and again like you could have
Speaker 3: the incredible Hawk on your team.
Speaker 1: Yeah, And he's just it's good. It's it's very good.
Speaker 1: It's only seven games and so I can't I can't
Speaker 1: stress that enough. I understand what's happening here. But Gottley,
Speaker 1: he's a he's a he's a he's a good football player.
Speaker 1: And you also like to Patana, Let's talk about him
Speaker 1: real quick. He's he's your guy, right, you like him
Speaker 1: a lot?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I like him a lot, But go ahead take so.
Speaker 1: I just I just got to talk about him because
Speaker 1: lot people said he's gonna be a guard. I think
Speaker 1: he's gonna be a tackle. He's got the twitch, the
Speaker 1: athletic twitch that makes you think he could be special
Speaker 1: at the position, and I think that's something that that's
Speaker 1: why he's the third guy for me, ahead of all Lufashana.
Speaker 1: He also has got a little bit of a better
Speaker 1: anchor he's just got a little bit of a nastiness,
Speaker 1: a more consistent physical to him and Oliano, So that's
Speaker 1: why he's ahead of Old of Fashana for me on
Speaker 1: my list.
Speaker 3: Yeah, he's excellent in a run game, very aggressive, mean, yeah, yeah,
Speaker 3: I really like him a lot. We've talked about about
Speaker 3: him amount guys that we haven't talked about all that much.
Speaker 3: I'll start because yours is a little more obscure, and
Speaker 3: I haven't watched the guy that you're you're going to
Speaker 3: bring up here. So but I have Christian Hayes from Yukon.
Speaker 3: I think he just plays with a toughness. Yeah right,
Speaker 3: he's uh, he can get into that second level. He's aggressive, he's.
Speaker 2: Got some.
Speaker 3: It seems every now and then in past protection can
Speaker 3: get pushed around a little bit.
Speaker 1: I'm glad you said that because I felt the same way.
Speaker 1: I think he at the Senior Bowl, very physical, physical
Speaker 1: in the run game, snappy, explosive out of his stance.
Speaker 1: But everyone you're like, what's this Like.
Speaker 3: Yeah, exactly, why why are you getting shoved around a
Speaker 3: little bit? And I don't know the the techniques of
Speaker 3: the skill, the nuances and skills of the position to know,
Speaker 3: do you have any thoughts on him?
Speaker 1: So, I think there's a couple of things, like sometimes
Speaker 1: I think he's a little high hipped. I think he
Speaker 1: bends well, but he's a little high hiped. He gets
Speaker 1: a little loose with his hands and when you're going
Speaker 1: and so that's something that's a little bit alarming to me.
Speaker 1: I know a lot of people have him as their
Speaker 1: number one guard, but for me, when you watch him,
Speaker 1: you're kind of like, this is going to be an
Speaker 1: issue unless you get with a really good technical offensive
Speaker 1: line coach.
Speaker 2: All right, So I think it's coachable.
Speaker 1: But I do think it is coachable, but you need
Speaker 1: to get the right guy to help him out. I
Speaker 1: think you need to help him understand like what he's doing.
Speaker 1: Also there's times where he's he's like over extending to
Speaker 1: get to certain positions, and I think just understanding like
Speaker 1: when you can put it all on the line and
Speaker 1: when you have to be a little bit more conservative
Speaker 1: I think will help him. And that comes with experience.
Speaker 1: So I like him, you know, in terms of competitive toughness,
Speaker 1: like insanely high competitive toughness, like unbelievable. So he's a
Speaker 1: lot of fun to watch. I think he's going to
Speaker 1: be a good pro. Just about what does he become?
Speaker 1: Is he just kind of a you know, a C
Speaker 1: plus level starter for a long time, a guy you're
Speaker 1: looking to replace, or does he kind of mature from
Speaker 1: a technical standpoint and become a guy that you feel
Speaker 1: pretty good about, you know, long term for your team.
Speaker 2: Gotcha?
Speaker 1: All right?
Speaker 2: Who's your plus one?
Speaker 1: Roger the Party Roger Rosengardner from Washington. He plays right tackles.
Speaker 1: He plays opposite Troy Fatanu and I people have been
Speaker 1: talking about him, you know, kind of up and down.
Speaker 1: He's he's there's nothing specially, he's very vanilla. He's six ' five,
Speaker 1: he's I think he's two ninety nine. He re did
Speaker 1: run a fast forty at the combin and the get
Speaker 1: of the fast forty to the combine kind of a
Speaker 1: weird build, and I was like, Oh, this guy, he's
Speaker 1: a little undersized, nothing special, thirty three in a quarter
Speaker 1: and an eighth inch arms, Like what does he actually do?
Speaker 1: And then when I watched the Michigan game, so the
Speaker 1: National Championship game, I was kind of blown away by him.
Speaker 1: And you know, I'm always looking for guys that, you know,
Speaker 1: we kind of go through the same ten names at
Speaker 1: the top of the draft. Is there somebody kind of
Speaker 1: that sits right outside that that area that you feel
Speaker 1: like could be a starter in the NFL? And when
Speaker 1: I watched this film, I was like, yes. And the
Speaker 1: reason I felt that way is because he has tremendous
Speaker 1: recovery speed with his feet and he's got it excellent,
Speaker 1: excellent dexterity and coordination to his body. And so when
Speaker 1: you look at high level tackles in the NFL, they're
Speaker 1: athletic like that. Either they're crazy big or they're crazy athletic.
Speaker 1: And I was just I couldn't get over Like there
Speaker 1: was a couple of times where the guy hits him
Speaker 1: with an inside move, he overseets it bad, he does
Speaker 1: a spin move himself, works his feet, looks like a
Speaker 1: basketball player out there, gets back in front of the guy,
Speaker 1: winds the pocket, Pennic steps around it, and just was
Speaker 1: a tremendous place. So his ability to recover in those situations.
Speaker 1: Obviously you don't like the set originally because he's off
Speaker 1: the line, but the foot speed, the dexterity, and the
Speaker 1: ability to kind of get after guys a little bit
Speaker 1: right because he's so quick and explosive. He's able to
Speaker 1: get on guys really quickly and movement in the run game.
Speaker 1: He's got a little bit of an edge. Reminded me
Speaker 1: a lot, honestly of Troy Fatanu. I think Troy Patana
Speaker 1: is a better, more physically gifted player, but in terms
Speaker 1: of foot speed, I just was like, this is the
Speaker 1: twitch NFL starting caliber tackles have to their feet. And
Speaker 1: that's why I was just like, he's a guy that
Speaker 1: I could see here being in Washington, and I don't
Speaker 1: know if he's a left tackle at the NFL level,
Speaker 1: but a guy that if he's sitting there, I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's forty because I think it'd be good
Speaker 1: value at forty honestly after watching him, but a guy
Speaker 1: that could play for this team, no doubt in my mind.
Speaker 3: All right, let's move on to running backs. Yep, Okay,
Speaker 3: running backs was actually pretty difficult for me.
Speaker 1: This is this is really hard, Yeah.
Speaker 3: Really hard, And we'll talk about why because we don't
Speaker 3: think any of these guys may go in the first round.
Speaker 3: But it seems like there's a lot of talent that's
Speaker 3: bunched up late second third rounders.
Speaker 1: I think probably third to fourth, third, fourth, fifth round,
Speaker 1: that kind of area.
Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, I want to be surprised if a team
Speaker 3: like the Cowboys gets a little triggered back with running
Speaker 3: back and goes late in the second round.
Speaker 2: But yeah, so here's what I have.
Speaker 3: I have at number five, Ray Davis from Kentucky, Number
Speaker 3: four march On Lloyd from USC, three is Blake Corn
Speaker 3: from Michigan. Two Jonathan Brooks from Texas, and one is
Speaker 3: Jalen Right from Tennessee.
Speaker 2: Who's here time?
Speaker 1: Yeah. My top five is will Shipley from Clemson, Marshawn
Speaker 1: Lloyd from USC, Blake Koran from Michigan, Jalen Wright from Tennessee,
Speaker 1: and Trey Benson from Florida State.
Speaker 3: All right, so let's talk about Marshaon Lloyd and Blake
Speaker 3: Blake korm because we both have them four to three.
Speaker 1: Yeah, so I like them both. They're both good football players.
Speaker 1: Like they I think Marshawn Lloyd is explosive. I think
Speaker 1: he's got pass catching ability. I don't think he's elite
Speaker 1: in either one of those categories, but I think he's
Speaker 1: a really good football player. And I think he's a
Speaker 1: guy that if Washington said we're gonna draft running back
Speaker 1: in the fourth round to be kind of a third
Speaker 1: down rotational growth piece here for this team. I'd be like, great.
Speaker 1: I think that's just how I feel about him, you know.
Speaker 1: And I think I kind of feel the same way
Speaker 1: about Blake Coorm. I think Blake Orm's got better down
Speaker 1: to down vision than Marshawn Lloyd. I think he cs
Speaker 1: NFL runs really well. He s his short air burst
Speaker 1: is great. I think he catches the football well. The
Speaker 1: problem is he's five to seven, he's not very big.
Speaker 1: So it's like, I think they're both good football players,
Speaker 1: and I think that's the issue with this class. It's like,
Speaker 1: if you have a role as a stat and you
Speaker 1: see a vision for this player, you're gonna be okay. Yeah,
Speaker 1: It's just about making sure they gets to the right
Speaker 1: fit and they fit a need for you, I guess
Speaker 1: is what I'm saying.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 3: I like Marshall Lloyd a lot. He look good at
Speaker 3: the Senior Bowl on his tape. I wonder if this
Speaker 3: is like the Caleb Williams effect, where the USC effect
Speaker 3: where it looks like every now and then he turns
Speaker 3: down just planning his foot and hitting a hole for
Speaker 3: trying to bounce outside.
Speaker 2: To make a big play.
Speaker 3: And I wonder if that's just usc being like, go
Speaker 3: for the home run every time, swing for the fence
Speaker 3: instead of just hey, let's grind out these three yards
Speaker 3: right here, just hit this hole really hard, whereas he
Speaker 3: I feel like it's the opposite with Blake Koram, where
Speaker 3: he has great vision, he's going to hit that hole,
Speaker 3: He's going to go run right where he's supposed to.
Speaker 2: And that doesn't mean he.
Speaker 3: Doesn't bounce from time to time, but he's he's going
Speaker 3: to hit that play as it's designed, as it's supposed
Speaker 3: to be run.
Speaker 2: He's just not super.
Speaker 1: Big, Yeah, And I just think there's a more consistency
Speaker 1: to Blake Orm's game, and that's why he's the what
Speaker 1: is he the third guy? He's the third guy as
Speaker 1: the post of the fourth guy, And the only thing
Speaker 1: that keeps him from being the number one guy is
Speaker 1: that he's a little bit small. Yeah, and had a
Speaker 1: little bit of a regression in twenty twenty three as
Speaker 1: a post twenty twenty two.
Speaker 3: Yeah, my top guy in your number two is Jalen Wright.
Speaker 2: You want to talk about him real quick?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I think like at this point in
Speaker 1: the drafts for running back specifically, I'm just looking for traits, right,
Speaker 1: and Jalen Wright is a trait of the traitiest guys. Right.
Speaker 1: He's like six I think he's five eight five. No,
Speaker 1: he's five to ten. He's two hundred and ten pounds.
Speaker 1: He has the most explosive runs in college football. Last
Speaker 1: year he has the highest yards per carry. Like he
Speaker 1: is a home run hitter. Like again, we talked about
Speaker 1: running back vision. I'm not sure it's always there for him.
Speaker 1: They run a lot of trap, they run a lot
Speaker 1: of counter where he's like hitting a hole, and because
Speaker 1: of that offense in Tennessee, it's like really spread out,
Speaker 1: so like once he kind of clears that first level,
Speaker 1: like he's hitting his head on the goalpost. But I
Speaker 1: like that. I think he's pretty good in pass protection.
Speaker 1: And I think he doesn't catch the ball great, but
Speaker 1: I think you could kind of work that skill set
Speaker 1: with him and find an explosive guy for your offense.
Speaker 1: It's kind of hit home runs, and I think when
Speaker 1: you look at Oh Gosh, I forget that I'm the guy.
Speaker 1: The name of the guy that was drafted by Baltimore
Speaker 1: last year, the little running back but having an explosive
Speaker 1: playmaker in your offense with that kind of speed is
Speaker 1: incredibly valuable. So that's why he's he's number two for me.
Speaker 1: And again I couldn't put up his number one because
Speaker 1: I wasn't sure if there was the volume of NFL runs.
Speaker 1: But I think definitely a very good football player, guy
Speaker 1: that I'd be excited if the commands draft.
Speaker 3: Yeah, it's his explosiveness, right, It's it's eye popping in
Speaker 3: some instances. He just he has He hits the whole hard.
Speaker 3: He runs super fast, he's got getaway speed. No one's
Speaker 3: going to catch him when he gets going. He has
Speaker 3: good hands, not great, but when he gets the ball
Speaker 3: in space, I forget about it. N it's really talented.
Speaker 3: He's he's super young. He's and I think that that's
Speaker 3: what you were talking about a little bit with the
Speaker 3: negative there is that the super young is a good
Speaker 3: thing in the sense of like, well, he's young, not
Speaker 3: a lot of miles or is still coachable. But also
Speaker 3: there's not a lot as far as like you're saying,
Speaker 3: this NFL caliber run, he hasn't.
Speaker 2: He just hasn't. He doesn't have a lot of tape
Speaker 2: on it.
Speaker 1: He runs fast, right, Yeah, that's what he does big
Speaker 1: and he's pretty big. He's stout. But I like him.
Speaker 1: I think he's got again. To me, there's a little
Speaker 1: bit of a there's an opportunity there for him to
Speaker 1: be something more, to be a playmaker at the next
Speaker 1: level as he posts some of these other guys who
Speaker 1: I think like like with like Marshall Lloyd. I think
Speaker 1: he's going to be a good player. I don't think
Speaker 1: he's ever anything special. I think I think Jalen Wright
Speaker 1: has an opportunity to do that.
Speaker 3: All right, And then you added number one, Tray Benson,
Speaker 3: who's not on my list. It's actually my number six.
Speaker 3: That's the only reason down on my list. So talk
Speaker 3: about explosiveness. This guy is explosive. So why is he
Speaker 3: number one for you? And I'll tell you why he's
Speaker 3: numbered six.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So for me, he's because of the explosiveness quite honestly,
Speaker 1: Like when you look at when you look at what
Speaker 1: they do in Florida, a Florida state where he's the
Speaker 1: running back, obviously a lot of kind of messy runs,
Speaker 1: not really well blocked, and it's really muddy and murky.
Speaker 1: He does take shots, he's not super shifty in the hole,
Speaker 1: but when he has a crease, like if it's an
Speaker 1: outside zone system like I think about Kyle Shanahan or
Speaker 1: you know, Mike McDaniels or Green Bay for example, like
Speaker 1: with with the floor up there, if they had him
Speaker 1: in that offense, he would be devastating because he's big,
Speaker 1: he gets sent hell fast, he's fearless when he's getting downhill,
Speaker 1: and he does have the home run ability. And again
Speaker 1: I just look at like when you're looking at running
Speaker 1: back in the NFL, you're not looking for a guy
Speaker 1: to carry the load like Derek Henry. You're looking for
Speaker 1: a guy who has a role on your team. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I think he has a role with those teams
Speaker 1: right now. And if you want to if you want
Speaker 1: an effective, explosive rushing attack, get an explosive runner, and
Speaker 1: he's he's that guy.
Speaker 3: So so for I agree with everything you said. The
Speaker 3: reason he's number six is because of what you said,
Speaker 3: is that he to me, he relies so much on
Speaker 3: that athleticism that I don't know if the technique is
Speaker 3: right there, if the.
Speaker 2: Visions fully can be coached up.
Speaker 1: Though, Yeah, I mean I definitely maybe if you get
Speaker 1: him in a system, it's a little bit cleaner, you know,
Speaker 1: like Florida State it's it's muddy, very muddy. All that's
Speaker 1: a good point. So if maybe you get him, and again,
Speaker 1: I this is where I'm kind of like, if I'm
Speaker 1: taking a running back, I want to be able to
Speaker 1: hit a home run, like I can get a third
Speaker 1: down past protecting back, Like I want a guy that's
Speaker 1: gonna hit on run, Like I didn't put your number,
Speaker 1: what is it Brooks on my Liston Brooks he would
Speaker 1: be another guy that would fit in this category because
Speaker 1: just because he's coming off the knee right, But the
Speaker 1: same type of deal, like I want a guy that
Speaker 1: can hit home runs. I don't want to get on
Speaker 1: base with a running back. I want a guy that
Speaker 1: can be a productive playmaker in my office. And so obviously,
Speaker 1: like if you look at my list, it values that
Speaker 1: skill set.
Speaker 3: So here's the difference between Jaleen Wright and Trey Benson
Speaker 3: to me is that Jalen Wright has all these things
Speaker 3: you're talking about.
Speaker 2: Explosive, Uh.
Speaker 3: Jalen Wright will strap up for pass protection and he
Speaker 3: will say, come on, come on, let's go, like he
Speaker 3: wants to mix it up there. And I went back
Speaker 3: and I looked at all passing plays from Tennessee and
Speaker 3: from Florida State to see the pass protection from them,
Speaker 3: because they don't always put those in the cutups for
Speaker 3: running backs. They just do their routes or their runs, right.
Speaker 3: So I went back and looked at all passing plays,
Speaker 3: and uh, yeah, Jalen Wright, not afraid, wants to mix
Speaker 3: it up, steps up Benson.
Speaker 1: A little bit down. But I thought I thought he
Speaker 1: caught the ball better, which is yeah, I agree, one
Speaker 1: hundred I think, I agree, I think And this is
Speaker 1: where it gets kind of funny. It's like beauty's in the
Speaker 1: I of the beholder. I think he's a little bit bigger.
Speaker 1: I think he's a little bit faster. I think he
Speaker 1: catches the ball a little bit better. But you know,
Speaker 1: like there is there's issues with him. I'm just we're
Speaker 1: just both upside plays in terms of what you're seeing
Speaker 1: splitting hairs.
Speaker 3: All these guys are very close. I'm real quickly going
Speaker 3: to do Ray Davis. He's just a bowling ball.
Speaker 1: I love him.
Speaker 2: I love him.
Speaker 3: He's I think he's a better pass catcher and route
Speaker 3: runner than people want to give him.
Speaker 2: Credit for because of his size.
Speaker 3: But I think this guy could come in and be
Speaker 3: a rotational piece right away and be effective for a team.
Speaker 2: The plus one for me, I couldn't help myself.
Speaker 1: I know. I saw this one.
Speaker 3: Yi Vaki, he's his safety from Utah, but man, his
Speaker 3: running tape is so good and I just I have to.
Speaker 2: Bring him up whenever I can.
Speaker 3: I would love to have him on a team as
Speaker 3: an athlete, a special teamer. He's going to be an
Speaker 3: awesome special teamer. Forever drafts him and then yeah, maybe
Speaker 3: he gets a carry or two at running back if
Speaker 3: you need it, and he'll do pretty good.
Speaker 1: Yeah, he'll do pretty good. I like that pick. So
Speaker 1: for me, Will Shipley from Clemson. I'm a little high
Speaker 1: on him than most. I just saw a role for him.
Speaker 2: Small. He seems small, small.
Speaker 1: Skinny guy, but yeah, you can play like basically slot receiver.
Speaker 1: I think about mismatches with the running back spot. I
Speaker 1: want guys that can hit home runs. He kind of
Speaker 1: fits that. Mouli ran a four three to nine in
Speaker 1: his pro DA. He's explosive, catches the ball well, has
Speaker 1: some good power, and is a return specialist. So that's
Speaker 1: why he's on my list. And then my plus one
Speaker 1: is Braylen Allen from Wisconsin, and there's something to be
Speaker 1: said for having just a big dude who can get
Speaker 1: downhill with good contact, balanced, decent vision. He's not going
Speaker 1: to hit home runs, but I think when you look
Speaker 1: at his volume, his career and his ability to stay
Speaker 1: healthy and his ability to just consistently pound the rock, like,
Speaker 1: there's something there, right and I and again, he's going
Speaker 1: to fill a specific role for you. He'll he'll kind
Speaker 1: of move the sticks. I think he elevates the offensive
Speaker 1: line slightly. He's like a slower b rob to me,
Speaker 1: you know, like a less athletic be rob, maybe a
Speaker 1: little bit more power, but a guy that fills a
Speaker 1: very specific type of role and is unique because he's
Speaker 1: six to two and he's doing forty five and I
Speaker 1: think he catches the ball pretty well, so you know,
Speaker 1: kind of a unique guy there.
Speaker 2: All right, we're moving on the pass catcher.
Speaker 3: Sorry, this is where as a producer, I just had
Speaker 3: to like take a deep breath because I told you
Speaker 3: with these when we were setting this up, pick one
Speaker 3: through five plus a plus one, and you sent me
Speaker 3: a one through six with a plus three.
Speaker 1: So let me just say this. So We're not going
Speaker 1: to go through all these guys, but I did. This
Speaker 1: is kind of an exercise to say, like, there are
Speaker 1: a lot of guys in this plot. I guy and
Speaker 1: I don't. And I was just looking at your top
Speaker 1: your top five, and the only person I would disagree
Speaker 1: with you on is the fifth one. So I just
Speaker 1: threw some other names in there. So if you read
Speaker 1: your top five.
Speaker 3: All right, so my top five, you also didn't include
Speaker 3: the top of the consensus.
Speaker 1: I didn't. I didn't include the top three. I just
Speaker 1: said because there's like a lot of guys, right, there's.
Speaker 2: A lot of guys.
Speaker 3: So here's here's my my top five. Five is Brock
Speaker 3: Bowers from Georgia. Yeah, four is Brian Thomas Junior, LSU
Speaker 3: three of Doomsay, two Leak Neighbors, and one Marvin Harrison Junior.
Speaker 3: So we're just going to for the purpose of this conversation, Marvin,
Speaker 3: here's some Leak Neighbors duns. They're pretty much the overwbings three.
Speaker 3: We've talked about them plenty before. We're gonna just say, Okay,
Speaker 3: you guys are top three. You're over here, so we're
Speaker 3: gonna go Basically, you have an issue with me as
Speaker 3: brock Bowers.
Speaker 1: No I saw Brian Thomas Judter brock Bowers. I agree
Speaker 1: with I agree with percent, and then I would say, like,
Speaker 1: it's the next guy. Right.
Speaker 2: If the next guy you have.
Speaker 1: Xavierly Get written down on this piece of paper, I
Speaker 1: think that that's your sixth guy. I think that's a
Speaker 1: little high for me. For the get I would probably
Speaker 1: it's only one higher than you. I know, No, I
Speaker 1: got it, No, I oh, I meant that should be
Speaker 1: xavier Worthy, type of Xavier Worthy. And then it last.
Speaker 1: So I have three guys that I would probably slot
Speaker 1: in there, just potentially above him. And again I like
Speaker 1: Xavierly get a lot. I think I think Ady Mitchell
Speaker 1: Xavier Worthy or Lad McConkey. I think you you could
Speaker 1: twist my army the way and I would put that
Speaker 1: guy in that six spot.
Speaker 3: So here's the thing. When you talked with again sam
Speaker 3: Munsen about this, right, he made a good point where
Speaker 3: all these guys are so good, they're so close together
Speaker 3: that when you go from five to ten, you're like, oh,
Speaker 3: this is my tenth best receiver. Well it really, on
Speaker 3: any gift day could be the fifth.
Speaker 2: And that's true.
Speaker 3: The reason I keep putting Lagette up as high as
Speaker 3: I do is because man, he just looks so good.
Speaker 2: Every time I see him, he just looks really, really
Speaker 2: really good.
Speaker 1: He's like in my next tier. He's on my sheet
Speaker 1: of paper. He's on this list of twelve people. So
Speaker 1: I like him a lot. And the point of this
Speaker 1: exercise is the top three guys are the top three guys,
Speaker 1: and like kind of however, whoever you talk to. I mean,
Speaker 1: it's kind of Marvin Harrison and then you know.
Speaker 2: Neighbors and a doomsday back and forth.
Speaker 1: But then then after that, it's pretty solid. And I
Speaker 1: think there's a lot of really good football players at
Speaker 1: the position this year.
Speaker 3: So what's interesting about this that I want you to
Speaker 3: talk one is how Brock Bowers, a tight end, fits
Speaker 3: in with all these receivers.
Speaker 2: Yeah, so why did you slot him.
Speaker 3: Where you did, which is right behind Brian Thomas or
Speaker 3: as the fifth best pass catcher in this draft?
Speaker 2: And do you think he'll go fifth? Do you think
Speaker 2: these guys are.
Speaker 1: I think he might actually go ahead of Brian Thomas Jr.
Speaker 1: I think, and I can see an argument as to why.
Speaker 1: I think he's very polished, and so I think the
Speaker 1: thing that I have a hard time with Rock Bauers.
Speaker 1: Is he's six ' four, he's two forty. I want
Speaker 1: to say, is what he waited. I think he's a
Speaker 1: great athlete. I think he is a great feel for
Speaker 1: running routes creates separation as a football player. Johnny. My
Speaker 1: question is like he needs to go to a system
Speaker 1: that utilizes his skill set, that understands what he is.
Speaker 1: Because he's not going to play a traditional inline Why
Speaker 1: he's going to be your move F And I don't
Speaker 1: think you feel good about him in run game matchups
Speaker 1: very well. Like I know he gets the comp to
Speaker 1: George Kittle because that's who he looks like once he
Speaker 1: catches the ball. But in line, I think he's willing.
Speaker 1: It's just like it's a mismatch. You know, he's he's
Speaker 1: going up against guys who are significantly bigger than him,
Speaker 1: and so like, what do you do with him? Like
Speaker 1: I felt like Kyle Pitts was an easier evaluation because
Speaker 1: he could literally do anything. He can play Why he
Speaker 1: can play X, he can play F. I feel like
Speaker 1: Bauers isn't doesn't quite have the speed to play a
Speaker 1: true X receiver, and he's going to have his pro
Speaker 1: day coming up here with Themarus Mims at Georgia sometime
Speaker 1: in April. So we can get like a you know,
Speaker 1: reevaluation on this if he runs a four to four
Speaker 1: or whatever. But that's that's where I got a little
Speaker 1: bit weird. It's like, what is his actual role? Is
Speaker 1: he a big slot? Is he a power slot. I
Speaker 1: think that's a good role for him, but I also
Speaker 1: don't think that kind of maximizes his ability in the
Speaker 1: run game. If he went to a place like LA
Speaker 1: where he's playing like a pseudo wide receiver, tightand hybrid,
Speaker 1: I think he'd be extremely valuable there. But again it's
Speaker 1: about fit for him and the offensive coordinator having a
Speaker 1: vision for how to maximize his skill set because he doesn't.
Speaker 1: Because to me, if you want a power slot, there's
Speaker 1: also guys like Kean Coleman or Johnny Wilson, these big
Speaker 1: receivers you know, who have tremendous kind of acrobatic catching
Speaker 1: the football ability, and he doesn't quite have that. But
Speaker 1: he does other stuff well too. So like that's where
Speaker 1: like role and fit and function in the offense becomes
Speaker 1: really important. To me.
Speaker 3: Let's talk about eighty or Ann and I Mitchell, Yeah
Speaker 3: night from Texas. Because I have him as my plus one,
Speaker 3: a guy I wanted to talk about. You have him
Speaker 3: as your number three or number five if you conclude
Speaker 3: the other guys in ye five. Yeah, so right behind brock.
Speaker 1: Bowers, you have technically six.
Speaker 2: Technically technically six, you're right.
Speaker 1: Yeah, So let's talk about him.
Speaker 3: Real quick because I have question marks about him. I
Speaker 3: do too, But why do you have him so high?
Speaker 2: Though?
Speaker 1: So I think the thing is, like, I we once
Speaker 1: saw him at this combine yep, and I thought he
Speaker 1: had a rough combine running routes. I don't think he
Speaker 1: looked good. And when you watch film, there's a you
Speaker 1: see a little bit more route running nuance, right, And
Speaker 1: I'm a guy that I do like to listen to
Speaker 1: the consensus a little bit, right, So right now I've
Speaker 1: kind of got that tethered to me as an anchor
Speaker 1: because even though he had a rough senior bowl, I
Speaker 1: do think you see an explosive playmaker. I hear the
Speaker 1: comp to CD the Lamb a lot, and if that's
Speaker 1: the comp that's pretty. He's a little bit more explosive
Speaker 1: than that. I think he could be a true X.
Speaker 1: So I'm gonna push that value up a little bit.
Speaker 1: Do I see it all the time on film? No?
Speaker 1: But is the potential there for him to get there
Speaker 1: from a route running nuanced standpoint, from a vertical speed standpoint, yes,
Speaker 1: I think he needs again needs to get a good
Speaker 1: coach to get him going. But I understand people saying like, oh,
Speaker 1: he and Brian Thomas are kind of in the same
Speaker 1: tier for them because they're big, they're fast, and they
Speaker 1: can run all the routes. And that's why I kind
Speaker 1: of I haven't as much as I want to move
Speaker 1: him down, I'm just like, stay the course, watch a
Speaker 1: little bit more film, let's see how the process develops.
Speaker 3: So here's why he looks like Ceedee Lamb to me, right,
Speaker 3: and I do see that comparison. Other than they're built
Speaker 3: kind of the same, is that it seems like every
Speaker 3: now and then they have a hard time creating great
Speaker 3: separation someone you would expect from your number one receiver.
Speaker 3: But he still makes to play, He still makes to catch,
Speaker 3: which is Seedy Lamb's superpower. It doesn't matter if somebody's
Speaker 3: draped all over him, he can get the ball. The
Speaker 3: issue is I'm curious if that's because ady Mitchell can't
Speaker 3: create that separation or if he's just a little bit
Speaker 3: lacks a daisical times, because that does show up.
Speaker 1: It does show up, I do think. And also there
Speaker 1: was at the combine there were some ankle tightness stuff
Speaker 1: ability to sink in his hips, which again would affect
Speaker 1: his ability to separate. Again, that's the guy that I
Speaker 1: want to I want to. You know how you said
Speaker 1: you go back and watch the quarterbacks all the time.
Speaker 1: He's a guy that I'm gonna go back and watch
Speaker 1: a bunch because I need. I don't have a great
Speaker 1: feel for him, and my inclination is to put him
Speaker 1: at like eleven or twelve, But there's so many people
Speaker 1: that are so high on him that I'm like, I
Speaker 1: got to do a little bit more work on this, yeah,
Speaker 1: just in case. But again, I think the athletic profiles
Speaker 1: there you do see some stuff from a STEM standpoint,
Speaker 1: they're like, Okay, I get what people are talking about.
Speaker 1: I just don't know if I see it with enough
Speaker 1: regularity and enough kind of fair enough demonstrative ability to
Speaker 1: kind of be that high on him. But again I'm
Speaker 1: I'm reserving judgment on it.
Speaker 2: All right.
Speaker 3: I want you to talk about your guy who tight end,
Speaker 3: Jared Wiley from tc OH.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I really like Jared Wiley. Obviously. He's a guy
Speaker 1: that I've worked with, I've met him, and I think
Speaker 1: the thing about him is when you watch him in
Speaker 1: twenty twenty two, he's crushing people in the run games,
Speaker 1: and then when you watch him in twenty twenty three,
Speaker 1: he's not doing that as much, but he's catching the
Speaker 1: football well. I think he has an adr touchdown versus Baylor, Right.
Speaker 1: He's kind of got this silky smooth, kind of tall
Speaker 1: guy ability to kind of create separation. And I'm like,
Speaker 1: if you look at the guys who are getting paid
Speaker 1: in this free agency cycle, Kobe Parkinson, who was in Seattle,
Speaker 1: just signed with Carolina. I think he was on a
Speaker 1: three year, twenty million dollars deal. It's because he can
Speaker 1: block in line and work the seam of a defense, right,
Speaker 1: And I think Jared Wiley can do that, and he's
Speaker 1: way down a lot of people's lists. But when I
Speaker 1: talk to the NFL guys, they have him in like
Speaker 1: the top three most of the time. So I'm a
Speaker 1: little confused as to why there's a departure there. And
Speaker 1: maybe it's because maybe it's because the the NFL media
Speaker 1: is not great at evaluating tight ends. I don't know,
Speaker 1: but I find that my tight end rankings tend to
Speaker 1: line up more with NFL teams as opposed to.
Speaker 2: I wonder.
Speaker 3: I'm just throwing this out there, see if it sticks.
Speaker 3: I wonder if it's because when we evaluate tight ends, right,
Speaker 3: and I get I kept myself doing this when I
Speaker 3: watch tight ends. Is that well, we want we want
Speaker 3: Travis Kelce, Yeah, right, we want that's what we're looking for.
Speaker 3: We want to Kyle Pitts. We want a game changer
Speaker 3: in that sense. We're high on brock Bowers because it's
Speaker 3: the pass catcher first. And I wonder if like, well,
Speaker 3: there's only there's only four or five of those guys
Speaker 3: in the league, right, every other tight end has to
Speaker 3: play the tight end in the traditional sense, right, and that's.
Speaker 2: What you were great at. You were great at that.
Speaker 3: So he falls down maybe because he doesn't show these
Speaker 3: flashes that maybe some of these other tight ends do
Speaker 3: in the passing game.
Speaker 2: Not that he doesn't, but it's different, but it's different
Speaker 2: because it's like, oh, well he's not Travis Kenny.
Speaker 1: And I think that's why you see guys like sor
Speaker 1: not Shaud or Jatavian Jatavian Sanders from Texas getting pushed
Speaker 1: up boards. That's why I see brock powers really high.
Speaker 1: But I think it's important for fans to understand what
Speaker 1: that position. It's like, what is the role?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Right, is he going to be like? Because they do
Speaker 1: need a block, They need a pass protector, need to block.
Speaker 1: Even really good guys like Travis Kelsey's kind of the
Speaker 1: exception there. Yeah, George Kittle's excellent at it, Darren Waller's
Speaker 1: excellent at it. Even Mark Andrews gets after it a
Speaker 1: little bit, right, So I think like that's something that
Speaker 1: needs to be considered with those guys specifically. And like
Speaker 1: Rock Bowers is special because he's a special athlete, he
Speaker 1: runs special routes. But Sanders, for example, is a guy
Speaker 1: that I'm a little bit on the fence about because like,
Speaker 1: can he be an elite pass catcher and not have
Speaker 1: to do that other stuff? And I don't think that's
Speaker 1: exactly the case.
Speaker 2: So all right, here we go. We're time for the quarterbacks.
Speaker 1: Quarterback it.
Speaker 3: We made it the quarterbacks. We can't not talk about quarterbacks.
Speaker 3: This is interesting We're not going to spend too much
Speaker 3: time on it because we talk about them all the time,
Speaker 3: but I want to talk about how these are lining up,
Speaker 3: all right, So logan number five for me, I have
Speaker 3: b NIX for is JJ McCarthy, Three is Jade and Daniels,
Speaker 3: two Drake May, one Caleb Williams. This has really not
Speaker 3: moved much for me throughout this entire process. Looks like
Speaker 3: it shifted a little bit for you. Give me your
Speaker 3: top five.
Speaker 1: Yeah, my top five is five is Bo Nicks from Oregon.
Speaker 1: For is Drake May from u NC, Three is JJ
Speaker 1: McCarthy from Michigan, Two is Jane Daniels from LSU, and
Speaker 1: one is Caleb Williams from USC.
Speaker 2: Wait a minute, why is Drake May at number four?
Speaker 1: Okay, so this is I'm glad you asked me that
Speaker 1: because to me, this is why I hate doing like
Speaker 1: one to ten lists, Because these three guys one, two, three, four,
Speaker 1: Jane Daniels, JJ McCarthy, Drake May are all in the
Speaker 1: same tier. So for me, they're the same. It just
Speaker 1: depends on how you're looking at the individual prospects. So
Speaker 1: I've said this a couple of times on the show already,
Speaker 1: Drake May has the highest ceiling of this class, of
Speaker 1: this group of three of that made three guys, But
Speaker 1: I also think his floor is really low, Like when
Speaker 1: you look at how he handles, like some of his
Speaker 1: footwork fundamentals, some of the incanstisties throw on the.
Speaker 2: Football, he drifts a little bit in the pocket for some.
Speaker 1: Reason, he like finds pressure at weird times, like it's
Speaker 1: it's kind of these alarming things. But again and then
Speaker 1: you watch his big time throws and you're like, I
Speaker 1: like a lot. I like everything in here. This is great.
Speaker 1: Aiden Daniels, for example, is a guy that I think
Speaker 1: actually has a really high floor. I worry about his ceiling, right,
Speaker 1: But I think if I have said this on other shows,
Speaker 1: if he had to start a game today, I would
Speaker 1: feel the best of those three about him starting today.
Speaker 1: And so maybe that's why I feel like the Commanders
Speaker 1: are not set up necessarily to have the quarterback sit
Speaker 1: for a long period of time because of their backup
Speaker 1: quarterback situation. And again that's not a knock on anybody here.
Speaker 1: That's just my personal opinion. They might feel differently about that,
Speaker 1: the Commanders, But I look at this and I say,
Speaker 1: if I just start someone to day. It's Jane Daniels
Speaker 1: because I think he's got a quick release. I think
Speaker 1: he feels pressure relatively well. I think there's enough NFL
Speaker 1: throws on his tape, and I think the playmaking ability
Speaker 1: with his legs regulates defense for the first year or
Speaker 1: two that you feel pretty good about it. And then
Speaker 1: JJ we talked about again. I think very high floor.
Speaker 1: Not sure about his ceiling because I think you see
Speaker 1: a lot of NFL throws and I think there's a
Speaker 1: guy that's ready to handle the responsibilities of the NFL game.
Speaker 1: But if you want to hit a Grand Slam home
Speaker 1: run is strake may. I also think there's an opportunity
Speaker 1: to strike out there.
Speaker 3: So that's why I feel that, Yeah, you're a power
Speaker 3: hitter swinging for the fences. Maybe you strike out, but
Speaker 3: maybe you hit it four hundred and fifty feet. Okay,
Speaker 3: So I have Jade and Daniels at three. McCarthy is
Speaker 3: sneaking up there, and the reason I'm falling on Jade
Speaker 3: and Daniels, and I want to tell you why this
Speaker 3: is all right.
Speaker 2: I did a bunch of research.
Speaker 1: Let's do it.
Speaker 3: I was talking to you in text message and I
Speaker 3: was about, you know, what makes me nervous about Jade
Speaker 3: and Daniels, and maybe I could be way off base.
Speaker 3: Here was that he only has that one big year.
Speaker 3: So how many guys have had a breakout senior season
Speaker 3: or last season in college then go to the NFL
Speaker 3: and find success and what's the correlation? And you said
Speaker 3: to me, well, maybe games played matter matters, right, because
Speaker 3: maybe they have that breakout season because they have a
Speaker 3: lot of time right in college and they're getting better.
Speaker 1: Right.
Speaker 3: I don't want to put words in your mouth, that's
Speaker 3: basically you're saying. So you're like, look at that too.
Speaker 3: So here's what I found, all right, I went through
Speaker 3: all the way back to twenty twenty. I think it
Speaker 3: was maybe even a little further. I went all the
Speaker 3: way back that I could last five years, I think
Speaker 3: it was. And I looked at who had quote unquote
Speaker 3: success in the NFL, how many games they played in college,
Speaker 3: and whether they had a breakout game, breakout season, or
Speaker 3: last year, and that's kind of what moved them up
Speaker 3: draft boards. So pick a name, right, Let's say Baker Mayfield.
Speaker 3: He had forty eight games in college. Yeah, okay, so
Speaker 3: that's more than twenty five games. I made twenty five
Speaker 3: a marker because that means you played at least two
Speaker 3: seasons full seasons, and he had a single breakout season
Speaker 3: at the end of his senior year.
Speaker 2: It was just a jump in town. Right.
Speaker 3: Then you have a guy like let's say CJ. Stroud
Speaker 3: played in twenty five games, so two seasons, consistent, consistent.
Speaker 2: High level play. Yep, all right, what's.
Speaker 3: Another name that would be a good Joe Burrow is
Speaker 3: an outlier, right. What I found is he played twenty
Speaker 3: eight games games, he had a breakout season and success
Speaker 3: in the NFL. That's an outlier. And what I mean
Speaker 3: by that is the guys that have had breakout seasons
Speaker 3: even with starting two seasons or more in college, it
Speaker 3: still doesn't necessarily equate to success. Yes, correlation doesn't mean causas,
Speaker 3: but Joe Burrow is the exception.
Speaker 1: Yeah. So the three names that have been successful right
Speaker 1: in the NFL are Baker Mayfield relatively, right, Jalen Hurts relatively,
Speaker 1: and then Joe Burrow. Of that category, you had breakout years,
Speaker 1: that breakout years, that had breakout years, that's right.
Speaker 3: So you look at guys that had breakout years that
Speaker 3: like Malik Willis, Kenny Pickett, right, Jalen Hurts, But that
Speaker 3: took him a while to get to get to success.
Speaker 2: I would say had success.
Speaker 3: Grey Lance, Zach Wilson, right, Like these are Mac Jones, right,
Speaker 3: your names is like, Okay, they had a breakout here.
Speaker 2: Here's here's the correlation.
Speaker 3: That everyone's making with Jayde and Daniels is to Robert Griffin. Well,
Speaker 3: what did Robert Griffin do? He had a breakout year? Yeah,
Speaker 3: he played forty games with a breakout year. Jade and
Speaker 3: Daniels fifty five games a breakout year.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I'm with you.
Speaker 3: So that's why I keep falling on Jade and Daniel's
Speaker 3: I keep trying to find what it is because it's
Speaker 3: not always the tape. I'll go back and I'll look
Speaker 3: at the tape and he is dynamic. Yeah, but there's
Speaker 3: just something irking me right, Like it is this just
Speaker 3: a flash in the pan in college and I'm nervous
Speaker 3: about it.
Speaker 1: If I was gonna say so with Jaydon Daniels again,
Speaker 1: like his career arc is so unique and it's so
Speaker 1: hard to kind of make ay and again like I
Speaker 1: think this is a really telling thing, but like this
Speaker 1: is what I would make an argument to tend to
Speaker 1: say why Jadon and Daniels doesn't fit this. So at
Speaker 1: Arizona he was Arizona State, he was fine, right, I
Speaker 1: think he had I think it was his sophomore year,
Speaker 1: played pretty well, six round pick. And then they have
Speaker 1: the COVID year. Yeah, Arizona State explodes like everyone leaves
Speaker 1: the program. It's crazy ghost. LSU has a pretty good
Speaker 1: year in twenty twenty two or whatever it is, twenty
Speaker 1: twenty eight year, so exposed in twenty twenty one, goes
Speaker 1: as an okay year in twenty twenty two, that has
Speaker 1: a great year in twenty twenty three and a crazy
Speaker 1: wos Eisman, right, And so what I would say is
Speaker 1: that adversity early coupled with the fact that last year
Speaker 1: he kind of had already projected from like a sixth
Speaker 1: round pick at Arizona State to a third or fourth
Speaker 1: round pick at LSU last year to being a first
Speaker 1: round pick this year, shows a consistent progression. And then
Speaker 1: this is where I get really weird with quarterbacks. It's
Speaker 1: because you're evaluating like ten things at one time, Like
Speaker 1: it's the talent is the talent there? Yes, is the
Speaker 1: processing there maybe and you just kind of go through
Speaker 1: the list. The other thing I've heard about him from
Speaker 1: multiple people is that he's an insane worker. So like,
Speaker 1: if you do draft him, he's not going to be
Speaker 1: a guy that's not going to He's not gonna he's
Speaker 1: not going to not make it because he's not working hard.
Speaker 1: And I think that's another thing about bringing his flora.
Speaker 1: But I agree, I think there's a lot of stuff there.
Speaker 1: But I think if you look, if you if you
Speaker 1: look at the other thing, consistently high level of play.
Speaker 1: The names are there are really interesting too, just if
Speaker 1: you read through them real quick. Yes, there's the Russell Wilson's,
Speaker 1: the Bryce Young's, the c. J. Stroud, the Trevor Lawrence,
Speaker 1: justin Herbert kellen Mond. Obviously there's out lout.
Speaker 3: There's exceptions the exception, right, But you want from just
Speaker 3: doing the research, it looks like you want at least
Speaker 3: two seasons in college of consistent play. That's what it
Speaker 3: looks like. There's a correlation, not a causation, but a correliation.
Speaker 3: And of the top four quarterbacks that we talk about
Speaker 3: in this drab Williams, may Daniels, McCarthy, Williams May and
Speaker 3: McCarthy all have played at least two seasons of college
Speaker 3: football at a high level. Daniels sticks out he's played
Speaker 3: a lot of college football one big year, same thing
Speaker 3: with Bo Nicks, a lot of college football, more college
Speaker 3: football games than any other quarterback one big year, which
Speaker 3: is concerning.
Speaker 1: No, I'm with you, and I think you talk to
Speaker 1: NFL evaluators, it's concerning. I think it's a concerning thing.
Speaker 1: It's like, why because everyone can get hot statistically, everyone
Speaker 1: can get hot for a season, right, It's like, can
Speaker 1: you maintain that level of success? And I'm totally with you,
Speaker 1: And again that's why this quarterback thing, quarterback evaluation is
Speaker 1: so challenging. And I think we've talked with this a
Speaker 1: million times. Those three guys are in the same tier
Speaker 1: for me, right, those three players we just talked about.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: The situation that they go to and the plan of
Speaker 1: development for those guys is going to be the deciding thing. Like, really,
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter who comes to Washington of those three guys, Like,
Speaker 1: I'm fine with any of them, right, but what is
Speaker 1: the vision? How do they get him to progress? And
Speaker 1: there's obviously different models of getting that done, but that
Speaker 1: to me is the deciding factor and that's why the
Speaker 1: quarterback conversation is so so interesting I think this year.
Speaker 3: Yeah, Now let me be clear, if Jaden Daniels comes
Speaker 3: to Washington, I will be stoked because he has talent
Speaker 3: the lore right, he is super talented. I love what
Speaker 3: I see And like I said, I went back and
Speaker 3: I watched the film and I was like, oh my gosh,
Speaker 3: I can see how this guy could be just a superstar.
Speaker 3: I'm just I'm just taking this other piece of information
Speaker 3: that I looked at.
Speaker 1: That's it's important.
Speaker 3: But there are all three, all four of these quarterbacks,
Speaker 3: are they any one of them could be really really good.
Speaker 3: You can see it. And I'm not a jade and
Speaker 3: Daniels cater. That's what I'm trying to say.
Speaker 1: Like, I like him, all right, but I do think
Speaker 1: like when you watch the film, like if you're being objective,
Speaker 1: there are questions.
Speaker 2: Like does there are questions with every guy.
Speaker 1: But is his arm talent where it needs to? Like,
Speaker 1: there's questions about it. So I'm glad you brought that up.
Speaker 1: I think that's a really good exercise for sure.
Speaker 2: All Right, that's our show.
Speaker 3: We're going to do this next week, but with all
Speaker 3: the defensive side, and then we're going to get really
Speaker 3: close to the draft. We're coming up on that. We
Speaker 3: got a very big show for that the week of
Speaker 3: the draft, so make sure these guys stay tuned for that.
Speaker 3: That's all I'm going to say about it right now.
Speaker 3: It's a huge.
Speaker 1: Self all right, thanks.
Speaker 2: Is that it?
Speaker 1: That's it.