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Speaker 1: Hey, folks, it is Wednesday, March twenty fifth, and Sean

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Speaker 1: Ditty Combs and his legacy have been mis represented. Yes,

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Speaker 1: those words from superstar Usher and by the comments we

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Speaker 1: are reading, he has now stepped in it. And with that,

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Speaker 1: welcome to this episode of Amy and t J. Robes.

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Speaker 1: You are nodding, Yes, this has gone. We were going

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Speaker 1: to let you actually hear Usher's words, but he has

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Speaker 1: now kind of stepped in at ropes. Give an idea

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Speaker 1: of what the headlines and the comments are saying about

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Speaker 1: Usher right now.

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Speaker 2: Oh, from I don't have anything negative to say about

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Speaker 2: Sean Combs to yeah you were groomed by Shawn Combs.

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Speaker 2: There are headlines and there are comments, And I have

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Speaker 2: to say I have been looking at comments about this

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Speaker 2: interview that Usher gave where he spoke on Sean Ditty Combs,

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Speaker 2: and I have not found one comment so far that

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Speaker 2: has seconded what Usher said or said, yeah, it's good

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Speaker 2: you said that Usher. No, it's been actually incredibly solidly

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Speaker 2: completely against all of his comments, Like people are outraged

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Speaker 2: at what Usher said.

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Speaker 1: So and we say that, and we give a general idea,

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Speaker 1: and folks, before we get into the specifics, generally speaking,

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Speaker 1: he seemed, Robes, if you're just reading, I guess before

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Speaker 1: listening to it. Fully, he seems to be coming to

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Speaker 1: the defense of Shawn Colmbs, not because of what Shawn

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Speaker 1: Colmbs did, but he was not willing to go even

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Speaker 1: barely a step into the arena of criticizing or questioning

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Speaker 1: Sean did he Combe's behavior. The word misrepresented is going

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Speaker 1: to be a problem as well. But Robes, it came across,

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Speaker 1: did it not, as if he went out of his

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Speaker 1: way to not say an iota of negativity towards this man.

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Speaker 2: He went out of his way to completely and totally

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Speaker 2: whitewash or ignore the not only the allegations, but the

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Speaker 2: convictions against shann Didty Combs. And certainly we all, I

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Speaker 2: say we all, but we did. And a lot of

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Speaker 2: this country heard and listened to almost all of the

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Speaker 2: testimony that took place in that trial.

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Speaker 1: It was hard to hear.

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Speaker 2: Nobody wanted to know all of this. I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to know what these women were saying happened to them.

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Speaker 2: And the story was the same, like woman after woman

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Speaker 2: after woman. And so to hear that and to kind

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Speaker 2: of have a reckoning with Okay, I love Shandtycomb's music.

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Speaker 2: I love what he brought to the world, but I'm

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Speaker 2: hearing this horrific, awful, criminal, despicable stuff, and like, I

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Speaker 2: have to find a way to try to make sense

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Speaker 2: of it all. And so I think we would give

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Speaker 2: a little bit of grace to folks who knew Shawan

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Speaker 2: didty Combs in another way, who maybe didn't know that

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Speaker 2: side of him, who maybe didn't experience that side of him.

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Speaker 2: I think we can all leave a space for that.

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Speaker 2: But he didn't. Usher didn't leave a space for all

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Speaker 2: of that horrific.

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Speaker 1: Criminal, evil.

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Speaker 2: Testimony that we heard that Shawn Ditty Combs was convicted of.

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Speaker 2: So to not acknowledge it, to not have that be

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Speaker 2: a part of the conversation is hard. You can't ask

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Speaker 2: us to just say, hey, this guy was a genius.

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Speaker 2: He made a lot of money, he lifted up a

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Speaker 2: lot of black artists. So yeah, I'm not really going

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Speaker 2: to talk about anything negative he did, because all I

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Speaker 2: see is the positive. That is really hard to hear.

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Speaker 2: After the trial we saw unfold.

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Speaker 1: All right, we'll let you hear it for yourselves. Here

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Speaker 1: he is Usher giving an interview to Forbes, and he

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Speaker 1: was asked about Sean Ditty Combs. Little context here. Sean

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Speaker 1: Combs did have a lot to do with the beginning

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Speaker 1: of Usher's career, producer's first album, it became a hit.

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Speaker 1: These two have been closed since Usher was a teenager.

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Speaker 1: That's the context. But he was asked about Sean Diddy Coombs.

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Speaker 1: This was the answer that he gave.

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Speaker 3: I mean, this might be a bit controversial, but in

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Speaker 3: the same way, I think many people choose to look

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Speaker 3: past the reality of what our country is, the standards

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Speaker 3: that we now stand on. We can't ignore the reality

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Speaker 3: of the history. But in many ways, I think certain

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Speaker 3: people are prosecuted and maybe not recognized for the greatness

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Speaker 3: you know.

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Speaker 1: That they offer.

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Speaker 3: I don't have anything negative to say about Sean Clmes

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Speaker 3: because my experience was not what the world has seen

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Speaker 3: and how he's been misrepresented. I'm not saying that every

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Speaker 3: man is perfect. I'm not saying that all of us

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Speaker 3: don't have flaws. But I can't with any sense of

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Speaker 3: humanity not recognize the valuable contributions that this man made

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Speaker 3: for us as black entrepreneurs, for us, as businessman, for us,

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Speaker 3: people who transition culture and ideas into something that's tangible

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Speaker 3: and becomes business.

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Speaker 1: So many people benefited from.

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Speaker 3: What he created, and I acknowledge that, and that's why

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Speaker 3: I see him as legacy.

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Speaker 1: All right, Well, people are lighting them up over that answer,

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Speaker 1: and we started in WORL. He said what he said,

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Speaker 1: and it didn't sound like it was too much off

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Speaker 1: the cuff. And one of the first things he said

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Speaker 1: what he was starting the answer was this might be

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Speaker 1: a little bit controversial. It almost felt as if in

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Speaker 1: that moment he knew where he was about to go

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Speaker 1: and what he was about to do.

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Speaker 2: It's like when someone says no offense but or don't

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Speaker 2: take this the wrong way. But look, obviously the next

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Speaker 2: thing that came out of his mouth was just what

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Speaker 2: he cautioned people against. Obviously, it was offensive to a

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Speaker 2: lot of folks to hear to hear Usher say I

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Speaker 2: don't have anything negative to say about Shawn Combs because

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Speaker 2: my experience was not what the world has seen.

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Speaker 1: Okay, if we stop right there, why can't we take

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Speaker 1: Usher at his word in that like that moment, like

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Speaker 1: I don't have anything negative to say about him because

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Speaker 1: my experience is not what the world has seen. Okay, Okay.

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Speaker 1: That is like an honest and it could be a

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Speaker 1: legitimate assessment of his experience with Sean Combs if only

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Speaker 1: that sentence was.

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Speaker 2: Said, Okay, yes, you and I are in full agreement here,

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Speaker 2: because if he had stopped there and said, but I

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Speaker 2: recognize the pain that he has caused to so many

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Speaker 2: people that I was not aware of, and it's difficult

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Speaker 2: for me to actually live with the Shawn Combs I know,

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Speaker 2: and the Shawn Combs I saw in court. So I

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Speaker 2: understand the problem with that. But I just am here

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Speaker 2: to say that there is some value in what he contributed,

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Speaker 2: although I see and I've heard, and I've been appalled

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Speaker 2: by the other side.

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Speaker 1: Of him him.

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Speaker 2: He needed to be able to say what he said,

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Speaker 2: and that's fine, but he needed to acknowledge what also

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Speaker 2: is known about Sean Combs at this point and to

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Speaker 2: just say it's like your girl, Look, this is a

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Speaker 2: big issue with girls. It's funny. I don't know if

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Speaker 2: guys have this issue, but this is a big thing

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Speaker 2: among girlfriends. Okay, So you've got a friend and you

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Speaker 2: know this other friend has just betrayed you or done

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Speaker 2: something horrible, and you're trying to get your friends to say, hey,

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Speaker 2: this isn't somebody we want to hang out with because

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Speaker 2: they did this, And then one of the girlfriends says,

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Speaker 2: but I haven't experienced that, so they're cool to me.

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Speaker 2: It creates an immediate divisiveness and divide and it's kind

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Speaker 2: of like a US versus them, and now you've got

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Speaker 2: to take sides. Can't everything be true and there be

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Speaker 2: some I think there is a space where you can say, yes,

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Speaker 2: Sean Diddy Combs has done some incredible things and has

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Speaker 2: lifted up many artists and done brilliant, incredible things with

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Speaker 2: his career, and at the same time has been a

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Speaker 2: horrible human being. But he wasn't willing to even acknowledge

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Speaker 2: the other side of that. And that's the problem.

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Speaker 1: I didn't think he had to go as far as

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Speaker 1: you're saying he could. Now that would have been nice,

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Speaker 1: that would have been completely appropriate, and some would even

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Speaker 1: argue necessary, like you're saying. But even if he had

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Speaker 1: stopped swear, he didn't even acknowledge it that there was

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Speaker 1: something maybe that Sean Diddy Combs had ever done that

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Speaker 1: was wrong. So I was in the wherever we got

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Speaker 1: this news it was happening, and that line of his

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Speaker 1: I don't have anything negative to say about Shawn Colmbs

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Speaker 1: because my experience was not with the world has seen.

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Speaker 1: I was listening to that, and I was juxtaposing that

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Speaker 1: image of him in that interview with the image of

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Speaker 1: Cassie in the hallway, the image of Cassie being kicked

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Speaker 1: and beaten and dragged, and how you can see that

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Speaker 1: and still in the same way. And I don't want

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Speaker 1: to criticize because I love Usher and spent a decent

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Speaker 1: time with So this is not just an outward This

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Speaker 1: is more an examination of why this conversation has gone

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Speaker 1: the way it's gone, versus us criticizing him. We're seeing

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Speaker 1: why that criticism is coming ropes. It just wasn't a

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Speaker 1: hint in here anywhere, right, given that everybody can describe

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Speaker 1: that video still and to have someone say, ah, I

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Speaker 1: got nothing bad to say for me, And.

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Speaker 2: By the way, forget that he didn't go there and

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Speaker 2: didn't criticize him in any way he is he finished

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Speaker 2: that sentence. I don't have anything negative to say about

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Speaker 2: Sean Combs because my experience was not what the world

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Speaker 2: has seen and how he's been you know, miss represented

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Speaker 2: and you met you touched on that at the beginning.

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Speaker 2: The fact that he is saying, and said and chose

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Speaker 2: to word it this way, that Sean Diddy Combs has

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Speaker 2: been mis represented. I feel like that was the biggest

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Speaker 2: dig of them all and that hurt the most.

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Speaker 1: Well, it hurt to some point. He has to and

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Speaker 1: I'm sure he does understand how that word set people off.

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Speaker 1: There might be more context that was needed. He didn't

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Speaker 1: add it, but the suggestion and not a suggestion. He

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Speaker 1: is flat out saying the way the world is seeing him,

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Speaker 1: he has been misrepresented and how all of this has

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Speaker 1: gone out to the world. That is how it is

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Speaker 1: literally being said and interpreted. And I think that's fair

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Speaker 1: and it's fair for people to be upset.

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Speaker 2: About that, yes, because I think a lot of these

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Speaker 2: women would say, yeah, you're right. He has been misrepresented

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Speaker 2: up until the trial, where we actually now were able

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Speaker 2: to show the world who he really was, behind the scenes,

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Speaker 2: behind the music, behind all of the cameras. This is

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Speaker 2: who why I stay behind the cameras. But like, actually

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Speaker 2: there were cameras, so it was all documented. But the

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Speaker 2: point being is the misrepresentation was that he was this

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Speaker 2: amazing business mogul who was there to just lift up artists.

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Speaker 2: It was so much more than that. So I think

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Speaker 2: that is where the rub. That is where people are

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Speaker 2: super upset. And when you look at the comments, people

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Speaker 2: are outraged by what Usher has said.

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Speaker 1: And again people outrage often is the first reaction to

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Speaker 1: just about anything. I do encourage folks if you want

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Speaker 1: to take the time to go and listen to is

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Speaker 1: a little more. He gave a little more of the

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Speaker 1: answer to this, but that was for the most part

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Speaker 1: the stuff about Diddy that we let you hear there,

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Speaker 1: and he did go on. Brooks talked about the contributions

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Speaker 1: when it talked about money. Quite frankly, he talked about

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Speaker 1: how influential Sean Colmes was not just in music, but

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Speaker 1: he turned this into an enterprise. He made hip hop

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Speaker 1: an enterprise to a certain degree. To now we don't

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Speaker 1: go anywhere down the street and hip hop and rap

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Speaker 1: and that culture isn't touch in American culture. He made

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Speaker 1: that point. All of that stuff is true, so was

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Speaker 1: the process of the pain. But what the process is worth?

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Speaker 2: The pain meaning meaning he did what he did, but

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Speaker 2: there was a lot of pain that was involved in

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Speaker 2: the process. Like he just what he is now. I

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Speaker 2: didn't want to say accused of what he was convicted

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Speaker 2: of created a lot of pain? Was it worth it? What?

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Speaker 1: In order for what there to be? This media enterprise

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Speaker 1: and this medium mogul's what it need to be?

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Speaker 2: Obviously, Well, yeah, I can't find I don't like to.

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Speaker 1: Do that kind of some kind of equivalent. Well do

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Speaker 1: we not have all these hits in no industry and

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Speaker 1: people have this if these victims didn't weren't victims, We

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Speaker 1: can't do that. It is what it is. He is

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Speaker 1: who he is, He did what he did, and a

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Speaker 1: lot of what he did was incredibly positive. Are you

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Speaker 1: not allowed to say that? Are you not allowed to

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Speaker 1: recognize that? Are you not allowed to ever celebrate that?

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Speaker 1: No matter? If that's Diddy, no matter, if that's r. Kelly,

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Speaker 1: no matter, if that's Michael Jackson. And the list goes

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Speaker 1: on and on and on and on. Folks stay here

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Speaker 1: trying to figure out what do we do with these

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Speaker 1: fallen heroes?

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Speaker 2: Right?

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Speaker 1: We continue here on Amy and TJ Usher Usher Raymond

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Speaker 1: causing all kinds of conversations online, a lot of but

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Speaker 1: negativity coming towards him because of comments. He made an

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Speaker 1: interview in which he seemed to shy away from being

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Speaker 1: critical in any way shape or form of Sean diddy Combe,

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Speaker 1: someone who was a mentor to him, a producer for him,

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Speaker 1: someone who helps him reach superstardom. Robes, I guess misrepresented

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Speaker 1: is the word in his statement that is going to

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Speaker 1: bother a lot of people to suggest that Sean diddy

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Speaker 1: Comb's and his reputation at this point has been misrepresented.

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Speaker 1: Not exactly sure what Usher was trying to say, I

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Speaker 1: am because he didn't Robes elaborate. Is given people the

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Speaker 1: freedom to fill in the blanks, and the blanks they're

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Speaker 1: filling in don't bode well for mister Raymond.

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Speaker 2: No. And I think and you had even asked the

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Speaker 2: question before we went to break And I do think

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Speaker 2: that you can celebrate somebody's genius, celebrate somebody's contribution, and

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Speaker 2: recognize and even honor what they did for rap, what

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Speaker 2: they did for hip hop, what they did for the

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Speaker 2: black community, but at the same time still recognized that

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Speaker 2: there was horrific deeds that have been proven to be true.

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Speaker 2: And you can admonish perhaps what he his what I

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Speaker 2: don't know how to even describe his deviant side whatever,

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Speaker 2: like you can. We're all complicated individuals. And I'm not

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Speaker 2: saying or suggesting that what Shan Dinny Combs is accused

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Speaker 2: of and was convicted of is something that's in all

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Speaker 2: of us. But we all have good sides, bad side.

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Speaker 2: I get that, so but to not acknowledge it, to

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Speaker 2: completely dismiss something so abhorrent, that's the tough part. And

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Speaker 2: we even heard Shan didty Combs is responded, by the

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Speaker 2: way to what we heard from Usher. This all happened today.

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Speaker 2: He's already responded from prison through a spokesperson, saying, I've

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Speaker 2: always had love and respect for Usher. I appreciate his

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Speaker 2: words and everything he's achieved. Does that do him good?

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Speaker 2: Does that do him harm? To have? Did he actually

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Speaker 2: speaking out from prison? I didn't even know that was possible,

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Speaker 2: but apparently.

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Speaker 1: Spokesperson spokesperson he's in contact with in there. Look, I

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Speaker 1: just have to what Sean did. He Combs means the

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Speaker 1: world to some people out there. He did to you,

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Speaker 1: by the way, Well, I'm talking about careers. I'm talking

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Speaker 1: about careers. They owe their careers to this guy. Ussher

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Speaker 1: is among them in all likelihood, Who does what does he?

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Speaker 1: I don't even want to begin to try to understand how.

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Speaker 1: And frankly, the room for how painful it might be

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Speaker 1: for him to have to see this, maybe this side

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Speaker 1: of somebody that he didn't know, and to see somebody

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Speaker 1: he loves go through all this and reputation to come

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Speaker 1: down what that means for him. He is seeing this

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Speaker 1: whole thing differently from the rest of us. I can

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Speaker 1: respect that his comments are what they are. I can

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Speaker 1: just leave room and respect to why someone might be

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Speaker 1: confused and annoyed and even pissed off by hearing it. Yes,

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Speaker 1: he's going to have to say something else. I think

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Speaker 1: he's I think he might have left out some details.

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Speaker 2: Look, I was not aware. I'll be full disclosure here.

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Speaker 2: I was not aware of this prior relationship that Usher

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Speaker 2: had with Ditty. Where he was actually.

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Speaker 1: He was.

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Speaker 2: He considered Ditty a mentor basically as a teenager looking.

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Speaker 1: Up to him.

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Speaker 2: And there are all sorts of folks pointing all sorts

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Speaker 2: of fingers about how Usher may have been groomed by Ditty, etc.

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Speaker 1: Etc.

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Speaker 2: At the very at the end of the day, we

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Speaker 2: don't know and no one will ever know the relationship

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Speaker 2: that those two have. But clearly there's still love from Usher,

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Speaker 2: or at least respect coming from Usher towards Diddy, and

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Speaker 2: I think, look, you, this is a complicated situation because

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Speaker 2: I think any of us can put ourselves in the

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Speaker 2: position of having somebody we looked up to, somebody who

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Speaker 2: is a mentor somebody who actually you could credit with

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Speaker 2: your career or your success, and now to have to

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Speaker 2: say that person's a bad person or to DEMONI that's

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Speaker 2: a really tough mental space to get into. If that's

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Speaker 2: the person who you would credit with your own personal success,

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Speaker 2: that's a tough position to be in. And I'm going

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Speaker 2: to try to give Usher that space because he's grappling

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Speaker 2: with that. And I don't think that I understood that fully.

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Speaker 2: Hearing his comments feels incendiary, like what, how could you?

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Speaker 2: But then we don't know, We don't know what those

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Speaker 2: to and what he received from Didty and what he

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Speaker 2: owes in a way maybe even to Didty, or what

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Speaker 2: he thinks he owes to Didty and his from his success.

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Speaker 1: Well, these are again, you have like victims of horrible

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Speaker 1: crimes and abuse that we're talking about here them hearing

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Speaker 1: those words who hear and being praised and no acknowledgment

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Speaker 1: even a little bit. Yes, we can say all these

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Speaker 1: great things he did and not even to mention one

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Speaker 1: little bit of something that he might have done wrong

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Speaker 1: that is going to sting for some people. But again

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Speaker 1: it's what do we do with Do you listen to

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Speaker 1: Michael Jackson's music still? Do you listen to Our Kelly's music? Still?

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Speaker 1: Do you still watch movies by what's his name? Specter?

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Speaker 1: The phil Spector? What do we do with these folks?

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Speaker 1: Will you not watch a Cosby show rerun? Will you not?

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Speaker 1: I don't know what are you ever supposed to do

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Speaker 1: with these folks? I think I encourage everybody, give everybody

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Speaker 1: a break if you decide I don't ever want to

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Speaker 1: listen to another Didy song, okay, but also leave room

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Speaker 1: for somebody who can say, yeah, that stuff he did

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Speaker 1: was horrible, but I love I.

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Speaker 2: Think if Usher had said that, that would have helped

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Speaker 2: and would have gone a long way. I think to

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Speaker 2: the victims out there a lot of the folks who

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Speaker 2: have and there are a lot of comments that run

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Speaker 2: the gamut, but among them, the raining sentiment is if

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Speaker 2: Usher had a daughter, if Usher had someone he loved

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Speaker 2: in the position that some of these women were in,

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Speaker 2: he would never be able to say what he's saying.

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Speaker 2: And I think that. Look, it's always easy to say

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Speaker 2: that person should put themselves in another person's shoes, and

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Speaker 2: if we could all put ourselves in the other person's shoes,

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Speaker 2: this world would be a perfect, amazing place. That doesn't

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Speaker 2: happen oftentimes. And look, I don't know, I don't know

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Speaker 2: what Usher is going to take away from the reaction

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Speaker 2: to all of this, But he knew what he was doing.

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Speaker 2: And you and I both said this when you listen

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Speaker 2: to him, This isn't somebody who is just flying off

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Speaker 2: the cuff and just saying things. This was a well

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Speaker 2: thought out decision where when he was speaking, he was

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Speaker 2: speaking with clarity. He wasn't he was speaking with There

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Speaker 2: was thought behind his words. That was my impression mine

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Speaker 2: as well.

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Speaker 1: But he it sparked a conversation, and it shouldn't just

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Speaker 1: be about Usher and Diddy and Usher taking heat. Maybe

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Speaker 1: it should be about how we do have a better

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Speaker 1: conversation around and respect for people who are on both

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Speaker 1: sides of these issues. When it comes to so many

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Speaker 1: of our quite frankly hero so many of our greats,

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Speaker 1: quite frankly in the arts, who end up taking these

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Speaker 1: falls and accused of horrible things, what do we do.

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Speaker 1: Maybe there is no answer, but everybody should be respected

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Speaker 1: with whatever they do decide to do and with that, folks,

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Speaker 1: we always appreciate you spending a little time with us.

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Speaker 1: I'm TJ. Holmes On behalf of my dear Amy Robot.

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Speaker 1: We will talk to you also