1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,400 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. You 2 00:00:27,520 --> 00:00:30,200 Speaker 1: come into my house on a day my daughter is 3 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: to be married. You who asked me to do murder 4 00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,360 Speaker 1: for money? Welcome to the show. Ridiculous Historians thinks so 5 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: much for tuning in circumstances. Find us recording on a 6 00:00:41,320 --> 00:00:46,479 Speaker 1: lovely almost one hundred degree morning here in Atlanta, Georgia. 7 00:00:46,520 --> 00:00:50,000 Speaker 1: I'm Ben, I'm no Ben? Was that from Dirty Harry? Uh? 8 00:00:50,040 --> 00:00:54,520 Speaker 1: That is a quote from Don Vito Corleone in The Godfather. Yes, 9 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,200 Speaker 1: famously portrayed by Clint Eastwood in the film Dirty Hair 10 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:02,920 Speaker 1: working under his face? Miss pseudonym Marlon Brando, which is 11 00:01:02,960 --> 00:01:06,039 Speaker 1: a pretty fake name if you think about. You know 12 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,319 Speaker 1: who only uses their real name here in the United States. 13 00:01:09,520 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: That's our good friend and super producer Casey Pegram Viva 14 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:17,600 Speaker 1: La Bush, Viva Bush. Wait. Wait wait did we say 15 00:01:17,640 --> 00:01:19,880 Speaker 1: your name yet? I don't know? Okay, Well you're no, 16 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: I am no, that's true? What's my name that? I am? 17 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,400 Speaker 1: Not a member of LaCOSA Nostro, But I do enjoy 18 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:29,320 Speaker 1: a good mob flick from time to time. And rewatching 19 00:01:29,360 --> 00:01:31,720 Speaker 1: the Sopranos lately got my start doing it on an 20 00:01:31,720 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 1: airplane where it was censored in a hilarious way. Um, 21 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:37,040 Speaker 1: So I watched one through three of season one in 22 00:01:37,080 --> 00:01:39,720 Speaker 1: that fashion, and then once the swears started getting back 23 00:01:39,760 --> 00:01:42,000 Speaker 1: in the mix, it was borderline shocking. Ben. Let me 24 00:01:42,040 --> 00:01:44,720 Speaker 1: tell you, these guys really love their fs and Jeff's 25 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: I still have it. I still haven't watched Sopranos all 26 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,760 Speaker 1: the way through? Are you kidding me? Wow? It's really good. 27 00:01:51,880 --> 00:01:54,080 Speaker 1: I know how it is. Watched the last episode. It 28 00:01:54,160 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: ends with a Journey song and a cut to black. 29 00:01:56,040 --> 00:01:57,920 Speaker 1: And that's not a spoiler. Well, it can't be a spoiler. 30 00:01:57,920 --> 00:02:00,600 Speaker 1: We have statutes established for this. I think it's it's 31 00:02:00,600 --> 00:02:03,720 Speaker 1: past the statute of limitations. Here's the thing about the 32 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:06,640 Speaker 1: statue limitation of spoilers. Yes it exists, But are you 33 00:02:06,640 --> 00:02:08,200 Speaker 1: still being a bit of a schmuck if you do 34 00:02:08,240 --> 00:02:10,320 Speaker 1: it and don't prepare someone for something that they're enjoying 35 00:02:10,440 --> 00:02:12,640 Speaker 1: so much content out there in the world. That's weird. 36 00:02:12,720 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 1: Are you saying that you're doing a complete one eight 37 00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:20,200 Speaker 1: from your previously passionately completely opposite stance. Now, listen, Ben, 38 00:02:20,280 --> 00:02:23,040 Speaker 1: we were talking specifically about the ending of Loss that 39 00:02:23,120 --> 00:02:26,520 Speaker 1: I did not even actually spoil. I was accused of 40 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,440 Speaker 1: spoiling it. But the thing I said was not in 41 00:02:28,520 --> 00:02:31,200 Speaker 1: fact a spoiler at all. I believe in that situation, 42 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: which was probably more than a few years, because yeah, 43 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:38,680 Speaker 1: in that situation, Um, my position is that the creators 44 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:44,040 Speaker 1: of Laws spoiled the ending more than any Yeah, exactly. 45 00:02:44,160 --> 00:02:48,359 Speaker 1: But but I am a huge fan of mafia films, 46 00:02:48,400 --> 00:02:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of crime films, but mafia films in particular, 47 00:02:51,680 --> 00:02:54,960 Speaker 1: and off air, we were kicking around this idea, Casey, 48 00:02:55,000 --> 00:02:58,920 Speaker 1: what are some of your favorite crime films, specifically organized 49 00:02:58,960 --> 00:03:02,400 Speaker 1: crime called a no straw mafia. Well, then when you 50 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:04,920 Speaker 1: asked me about this, my mind was completely blank because 51 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: the first thing that jumped to my head was Scorsese's Casino, 52 00:03:07,960 --> 00:03:10,760 Speaker 1: which is far from obscure, but it is. It is 53 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 1: definitely one of my favorites, along with Good Fellows. But 54 00:03:13,480 --> 00:03:14,679 Speaker 1: you know, if you if you want to go a 55 00:03:14,760 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 1: little deeper cut, I would say, check out one of 56 00:03:16,919 --> 00:03:20,720 Speaker 1: the films of Jean Pierre Melville, like uh Les circ 57 00:03:20,760 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: Lar Rouge or maybe Bob La Flambert. What about Las 58 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:29,840 Speaker 1: Samurai isn't then that's me and El and uh yeah, 59 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:31,640 Speaker 1: that's a good one as well, Casey. On the Case 60 00:03:33,440 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: Film Edition man, we should do that more often. That'd 61 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 1: be cool. Yeah, if it comes up, Yeah, just let 62 00:03:38,280 --> 00:03:40,119 Speaker 1: us know, Casey, if the spirit moves you. I don't 63 00:03:40,120 --> 00:03:43,040 Speaker 1: ever want it to be something where you feel stressed, like, 64 00:03:43,080 --> 00:03:45,560 Speaker 1: oh crap, I have to come up with a movie homework? 65 00:03:46,720 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: Who cares about homework? What's the crime film you like? 66 00:03:49,880 --> 00:03:52,560 Speaker 1: I'll tell you what I watched recently was The French Connection. 67 00:03:53,160 --> 00:03:55,840 Speaker 1: I've never seen him before. It is a um oh gosh, 68 00:03:55,880 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: William Friedkin William fried Kent film um famously directed The 69 00:03:59,240 --> 00:04:03,000 Speaker 1: Exorcist and uh, what else is he directed? Was really great, 70 00:04:04,960 --> 00:04:07,560 Speaker 1: which I've not seen Santa. He also did a trucking 71 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: a movie about like like, what's it called, oh, Sorcerer Sorcerer, 72 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: which has a tangerine dream sound track that you're like, 73 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:15,600 Speaker 1: but um, the thing that was so cool about French 74 00:04:15,640 --> 00:04:19,520 Speaker 1: Connection is it's very naturalistic. It's just very like. Something 75 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:21,680 Speaker 1: about it makes you feel like you're really in the room. 76 00:04:21,800 --> 00:04:24,000 Speaker 1: I think a lot of it was improvised. Um. There's 77 00:04:24,040 --> 00:04:27,960 Speaker 1: this incredible chase sequence where Gene Hackman is chasing a 78 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,600 Speaker 1: New York subway train that's at the portion where it's 79 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:32,839 Speaker 1: on an elevated track and he's in this like car 80 00:04:32,920 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 1: that he's common deer, and he's driving underneath the track 81 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:38,679 Speaker 1: and it's just such a dynamic, cool, badass chase sequence, 82 00:04:38,920 --> 00:04:42,560 Speaker 1: really really frenetic, high energy film. You know. Robert de Niro, 83 00:04:42,640 --> 00:04:45,400 Speaker 1: I thought, did a good job taking the directorial position 84 00:04:45,440 --> 00:04:47,800 Speaker 1: with a bronx tail. Do you guys remember that one? 85 00:04:47,960 --> 00:04:50,840 Speaker 1: I never saw that. Actually, it was pretty it's it's 86 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: it triggers some nostalgia for me, which may be part 87 00:04:53,640 --> 00:04:56,520 Speaker 1: of the reason I liked it. Another old one that 88 00:04:56,560 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: I really enjoyed was The Big Heat. That's like nineteen fifties. 89 00:05:01,360 --> 00:05:03,159 Speaker 1: I think The Big Heat is for its slaying. Actually, 90 00:05:03,160 --> 00:05:05,359 Speaker 1: he's a great German filmmaker that came over to the 91 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:09,479 Speaker 1: States after Gebel's offered him the German film industry the 92 00:05:09,520 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: whole thing, yeah on a platter. Yeah uh, and he 93 00:05:12,760 --> 00:05:16,679 Speaker 1: thought maybe not and he fled Germany that night. It's uh. 94 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: The Big Heat is pretty dark as fifty noirs go, 95 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,240 Speaker 1: but it's it's worth a watch, especially if it's something 96 00:05:24,680 --> 00:05:27,120 Speaker 1: that you've seen pop up on some film list and 97 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:29,720 Speaker 1: you've you've never quite gotten around too. I'd say it's 98 00:05:29,720 --> 00:05:33,839 Speaker 1: worth a watch. It's surprisingly violent for the time today's 99 00:05:33,880 --> 00:05:38,800 Speaker 1: show is about organized crime, specifically the mafia, specifically the 100 00:05:38,839 --> 00:05:44,720 Speaker 1: Italian American Mafia. However, it is not about New York City. No, 101 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 1: It's about another place entirely ben that does have a 102 00:05:46,920 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 1: reputation for revelry, it does have a reputation for seediness, 103 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:53,479 Speaker 1: a certain element, but I've never in my life associated 104 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,320 Speaker 1: it with organized crime until he started looking into this topic. 105 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:59,040 Speaker 1: It's a place referred to often as the Big Easy 106 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:04,560 Speaker 1: No All No La or New Orleans or New Orleans, 107 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 1: that's correct. Yeah, New Orleans, beautiful city, home to almost 108 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: a parallel branch of American history. You know, one thing 109 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:17,080 Speaker 1: that is confusing too many kids growing up in the 110 00:06:17,160 --> 00:06:21,600 Speaker 1: United States outside of Louisiana is the concept of parishes 111 00:06:21,839 --> 00:06:25,760 Speaker 1: rather than counties. Because Louisiana has parishes, and that is 112 00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:30,799 Speaker 1: a that is one of the many vestigial traditions carried 113 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:33,919 Speaker 1: down from its history as a French city of French 114 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:37,280 Speaker 1: territory or region. And of course, this city is home 115 00:06:37,320 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: to so many amazing things that are influential, not just 116 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:44,919 Speaker 1: in the US but in the world entire and it 117 00:06:45,040 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 1: is also home to the mafia. As we found out. 118 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,440 Speaker 1: You see many of us myself included in the past, 119 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:56,839 Speaker 1: would reasonably assume that the mafia, the Italian American mafia 120 00:06:56,839 --> 00:07:01,880 Speaker 1: specifically had its roots in the Big Apple, New York City, NYC. 121 00:07:02,640 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Because this is where you see The Godfather being set, 122 00:07:06,440 --> 00:07:09,800 Speaker 1: this is where the five great crime families are based, 123 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: and this is where millions and millions of Italian immigrants 124 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: originally came. They first came to New York City, Statue 125 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:21,760 Speaker 1: of Liberty, Ellis Island, the whole nine. In reality, though, 126 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:28,559 Speaker 1: the first Italian American mafia came from New Orleans. That 127 00:07:28,560 --> 00:07:31,760 Speaker 1: that was the first one, and it's also the site 128 00:07:31,760 --> 00:07:35,680 Speaker 1: of the first major let's say, maybe a conflict, but 129 00:07:35,800 --> 00:07:39,640 Speaker 1: mafia incident, mafia murder. Yeah, it's true, Ben And and 130 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: the thing is the actual Like, first on the list 131 00:07:42,520 --> 00:07:47,080 Speaker 1: for immigration from Italy was places like Argentina and Brazil, 132 00:07:47,120 --> 00:07:50,920 Speaker 1: which I would never have really considered either because they 133 00:07:51,040 --> 00:07:54,160 Speaker 1: had similar cultures to what the Italian immigrants were used 134 00:07:54,200 --> 00:07:58,960 Speaker 1: to in their homeland. Uh, New Orleans became a popular 135 00:07:59,240 --> 00:08:04,200 Speaker 1: second choice. Yeah, this was during the eighteen hundreds, mainly 136 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,560 Speaker 1: because there was already so much trade with New Orleans 137 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:12,000 Speaker 1: and cities and regions in Brazil and Argentina. This is 138 00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:16,920 Speaker 1: weird because it already began to trigger some xenophobia amongst 139 00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 1: people who were not Sicilian or not Italian. The New 140 00:08:20,840 --> 00:08:26,080 Speaker 1: Orleans Times reported back in eighteen sixty nine that parts 141 00:08:26,080 --> 00:08:29,880 Speaker 1: of the city were overrun with get this quote, well 142 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:35,440 Speaker 1: known and notorious Sicilian murderers, counterfeitters, and burglars who in 143 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,880 Speaker 1: the last month have formed a sort of general co 144 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,240 Speaker 1: partnership or stock company for the plunder and disturbance of 145 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:46,120 Speaker 1: the city. That's not the that's not the kind of 146 00:08:46,120 --> 00:08:49,199 Speaker 1: elements you want coming into your city. I mean, that's 147 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: how you would describe a mafia if you had never 148 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:54,000 Speaker 1: heard of the mafia before. That's true, but this is 149 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:56,200 Speaker 1: a time where this is very new, right for for 150 00:08:56,280 --> 00:08:59,800 Speaker 1: the US. They didn't know about the crime families in Italy. 151 00:09:00,280 --> 00:09:02,080 Speaker 1: You know, there was no Internet. It wasn't like super 152 00:09:02,080 --> 00:09:04,440 Speaker 1: common knowledge. This was like a very new thing that 153 00:09:04,520 --> 00:09:09,120 Speaker 1: was kind of invading their community. And this sort of 154 00:09:09,160 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: tension continues building between the average the squares, the non 155 00:09:14,720 --> 00:09:19,280 Speaker 1: criminal citizens, the authorities in New Orleans, and the mafia. 156 00:09:19,720 --> 00:09:23,440 Speaker 1: It reaches ahead and what it started to describe this earlier. 157 00:09:23,480 --> 00:09:27,800 Speaker 1: The first major incident, the first murder occurs on October 158 00:09:27,920 --> 00:09:31,000 Speaker 1: fift There are probably other ones, but this is the 159 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:34,600 Speaker 1: first one we know about. New Orleans Police Superintendent David 160 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:40,360 Speaker 1: Hennessy is assassinated, basically murdered execution style, and then public 161 00:09:40,440 --> 00:09:45,240 Speaker 1: outrage and hysteria breaks. Hundreds of Sicilians get arrested, eventually 162 00:09:45,360 --> 00:09:50,360 Speaker 1: nineteen or fingered for the crime, but then they were acquitted. Yeah, 163 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,200 Speaker 1: and just before that happened Giuseppe Esposito, who was one 164 00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:57,120 Speaker 1: of the first known Sicilian mafia members to come to 165 00:09:57,120 --> 00:09:59,400 Speaker 1: the United States. He actually came to New York um. 166 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,079 Speaker 1: And this is after he and six of his cronies 167 00:10:02,640 --> 00:10:06,680 Speaker 1: murdered the chancellor and a vice chancellor of a province 168 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: in Sicily, in addition to eleven very very influential and 169 00:10:11,640 --> 00:10:15,360 Speaker 1: rich landowners. And he was arrested in New Orleans in 170 00:10:15,480 --> 00:10:18,280 Speaker 1: eighty one, and then he was extradited to Italy. And 171 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 1: New Orleans is becoming a hotbed of this kind of activity, 172 00:10:20,920 --> 00:10:22,839 Speaker 1: and it's sort of starting to bubble over with this 173 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:25,520 Speaker 1: incident that you're describing, ben and led to some pretty 174 00:10:25,600 --> 00:10:36,280 Speaker 1: serious consequences, didn't it. Yeah. So on October fifte David 175 00:10:36,280 --> 00:10:40,160 Speaker 1: Hennessy has murdered nineteen, As they said, hundreds of Sicilians 176 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,679 Speaker 1: arrested nineteen go to trial, but they're acquitted. And this 177 00:10:43,720 --> 00:10:46,840 Speaker 1: makes everyone else in the city say someone was bribing them, 178 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:50,679 Speaker 1: someone was scaring the witnesses. So the citizens of New Orleans, 179 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: the squares I mentioned earlier, organize a lynch mob and 180 00:10:54,080 --> 00:10:58,040 Speaker 1: they kill eleven of those nineteen people who got away. 181 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,520 Speaker 1: Two of them were hanged, nine of them were shot, 182 00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:05,080 Speaker 1: and the other eight escaped. We're not sure what happened 183 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:08,520 Speaker 1: to them. But this, along with that criminal you're describing, Knowle, 184 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,520 Speaker 1: gives us a very different image of New Orleans. You know. 185 00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:16,320 Speaker 1: We we imagine the many other problems the city happen 186 00:11:16,320 --> 00:11:20,079 Speaker 1: at the time, but we don't really think of imported 187 00:11:20,160 --> 00:11:24,600 Speaker 1: Italian criminal enterprise. You know. We know that there has 188 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:28,720 Speaker 1: been uh fairly rich research on this, especially by the 189 00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:33,080 Speaker 1: Sicilian historian Salvatore Lupo. In his History of the Mafia, 190 00:11:33,760 --> 00:11:37,600 Speaker 1: he talks about how you can trace the spread of 191 00:11:37,600 --> 00:11:42,000 Speaker 1: the mafia in the US directly to Sicilian immigration to 192 00:11:42,480 --> 00:11:46,680 Speaker 1: New Orleans, and by the end of the nineteenth century, 193 00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:51,439 Speaker 1: New Orleans had the largest Sicilian population in the US, 194 00:11:51,679 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: which surprised me. I guess I just always assumed it 195 00:11:54,200 --> 00:11:55,800 Speaker 1: would have been New York. I would have too, and 196 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,959 Speaker 1: apparently as well. Been. One reason this was the case 197 00:11:59,240 --> 00:12:03,720 Speaker 1: is the state of Louisiana was working with sugar planters 198 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,640 Speaker 1: to replace slave labor, so that kind of immigration, opening 199 00:12:07,720 --> 00:12:11,640 Speaker 1: up that kind of immigration was part of that effort. Yes, 200 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: so they've got booming agricultural business, right, this is a 201 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: world class port. That alone is very attractive to the mafia. 202 00:12:20,040 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: But if you throw in the disorganized city functions and 203 00:12:24,280 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: the corrupt administration, boom boom boom, we've got a mafia 204 00:12:28,600 --> 00:12:33,120 Speaker 1: moth heading toward an illicit flame. Very nice image there been, 205 00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:36,720 Speaker 1: uh and that flame ended up being the French Quarter 206 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,680 Speaker 1: and Bourbon Street specifically. So when you think of Bourbon 207 00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:43,120 Speaker 1: Street anyone that's been that's visited New Orleans, you kind 208 00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,240 Speaker 1: of think of it as being the trashy, kind of 209 00:12:45,280 --> 00:12:48,280 Speaker 1: tourist d spot that's not necessarily where you want to 210 00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:49,960 Speaker 1: hit if you're like kind of going for off the 211 00:12:49,960 --> 00:12:52,280 Speaker 1: beaten path kind of stuff. But the original Bourpons of 212 00:12:52,280 --> 00:12:56,000 Speaker 1: what led to that reputation, the original Bourbon Street as 213 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:59,040 Speaker 1: kind of like you know, established by some of these uh, 214 00:12:59,080 --> 00:13:03,679 Speaker 1: these Sicilian mobsters was a just absolute smorgue sport of 215 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:09,559 Speaker 1: things like jazz clubs, speakeasies, restaurantsnudy bars, strip clubs, all 216 00:13:09,559 --> 00:13:12,080 Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. And it was all run and 217 00:13:12,120 --> 00:13:14,840 Speaker 1: operated or at least largely people were getting a cut 218 00:13:14,840 --> 00:13:18,839 Speaker 1: that were members of this mafia group. Yeah. Richard Campanella, 219 00:13:19,200 --> 00:13:23,360 Speaker 1: the author of Bourbon Street, a History, has it this 220 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:25,720 Speaker 1: way if he he's on the same page with us here, 221 00:13:25,760 --> 00:13:32,120 Speaker 1: because he says they didn't necessarily control all of Bourbon Street, 222 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: but they had this behind the scenes influential consortium. You know, 223 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: imagine imagine it like this. You don't own every house 224 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: of ill repute on Bourbon Street, but you do coordinate 225 00:13:48,120 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 1: what they can charge for things, and they do pay 226 00:13:51,360 --> 00:13:54,400 Speaker 1: you a certain percentage and you help keep people's turf 227 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: boundaries clear. It's that same thing you see in like 228 00:13:56,760 --> 00:14:00,960 Speaker 1: a show like Sopranos, where uh, the mob of underbosses 229 00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:03,080 Speaker 1: or some of the what do they call him, like 230 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:06,160 Speaker 1: enforcers I guess, go door to door to businesses, collecting 231 00:14:06,520 --> 00:14:09,120 Speaker 1: collections what they call it. And that means that the 232 00:14:09,160 --> 00:14:12,479 Speaker 1: mob has a hand in offering protection to these businesses 233 00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,480 Speaker 1: as long as they're given a cut. So they sort 234 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:16,760 Speaker 1: of set the tone, I guess for for the kind 235 00:14:16,800 --> 00:14:18,880 Speaker 1: of businesses that are lucrative and that are going to 236 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:22,200 Speaker 1: generate enough money to get them, keep them paid, and 237 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:25,280 Speaker 1: keep them happy. Right. Yeah, And this is this is 238 00:14:25,280 --> 00:14:27,520 Speaker 1: an interesting way to look at We've got this quote 239 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:31,360 Speaker 1: from Campanilla. He's describing the extent of Bourbon Street. You know, 240 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:34,120 Speaker 1: he says, thirteen blocks in the quarter were more block 241 00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:38,560 Speaker 1: in another place. Half his residential halfs commercial, couple hundred businesses. 242 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:42,280 Speaker 1: This is where he gets to a specific example of 243 00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:46,200 Speaker 1: mafia involvement. He says, quote, you'd have bars, some clubs, 244 00:14:46,240 --> 00:14:50,280 Speaker 1: a restaurant, and something completely unrelated like an electrical store. 245 00:14:50,520 --> 00:14:52,680 Speaker 1: And in the back rooms of many bars and clubs, 246 00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: you might have a pinball machine that really was controlled 247 00:14:55,320 --> 00:14:57,800 Speaker 1: by the mob They paid off the bartender to make 248 00:14:57,840 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: sure only they got the money. There were these bookmakers, 249 00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: poker machines, illegal gambling. Meanwhile, a legitimate bar was up 250 00:15:05,280 --> 00:15:07,960 Speaker 1: and running and the bartenders might not have anything to 251 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: do with the mobsters. But make no mistake, a number 252 00:15:11,320 --> 00:15:13,840 Speaker 1: of owners were out and out mobsters. So you could 253 00:15:13,880 --> 00:15:18,560 Speaker 1: have like Casey could have uh, you know, crazy Casey's 254 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:23,160 Speaker 1: crawfish and jazz club, and it could be totally legitimate 255 00:15:23,200 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 1: and on the up and up, but there could be 256 00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:28,280 Speaker 1: a back room where people go to gamble and it's 257 00:15:28,320 --> 00:15:31,600 Speaker 1: just sort of like contracted out to the mob. Yeah, 258 00:15:31,640 --> 00:15:35,360 Speaker 1: and the mobsters get points on those poker games, illegal 259 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:38,520 Speaker 1: poke games, or they're like out now controlled by the 260 00:15:38,560 --> 00:15:41,240 Speaker 1: mom So for sure. Uh, this is a little bit 261 00:15:41,280 --> 00:15:43,480 Speaker 1: off topic, but really funny. I was in Brooklyn recently 262 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:45,520 Speaker 1: and I went to the most Brooklyn establishment I've ever 263 00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:47,960 Speaker 1: been to in my life. It was a combination laundromat, 264 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:52,440 Speaker 1: pinball emporium and bar. Probably controlled by the mob. You think, 265 00:15:52,480 --> 00:15:54,720 Speaker 1: so one would assume, well, we don't know if it's 266 00:15:54,840 --> 00:15:57,720 Speaker 1: We also can't profile mobs. We have to be fair 267 00:15:57,760 --> 00:16:00,600 Speaker 1: to organize crime. It could be Irish mob. It's also true. 268 00:16:00,640 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 1: I don't know. I'm just saying, So, where's the origin 269 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,680 Speaker 1: of the word mafia come from and mafia versus mob? Well, 270 00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,960 Speaker 1: if we check the handy dandy last minute etymology, dive 271 00:16:11,560 --> 00:16:16,720 Speaker 1: mafia originally derives from a Sicilian adje mafiu so, which 272 00:16:16,840 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: roughly translated means swagger, oldness or bravado got it. And 273 00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:24,360 Speaker 1: then the idea of abo the mob refers to literally 274 00:16:24,360 --> 00:16:27,080 Speaker 1: like a gang, you know, a group of individuals that 275 00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:29,680 Speaker 1: have a common purpose. Let's look at that. That's interesting, 276 00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:36,560 Speaker 1: mafia versus mob. So the mafia is gonna be Italian 277 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:40,480 Speaker 1: because as that Sicilian origin, but the mob can refer 278 00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:44,640 Speaker 1: to other organized groups or organized crime in general, so 279 00:16:44,720 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 1: like corrupt teamsters could be a mob. So a mob 280 00:16:47,720 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 1: is not necessarily the mafia, but mob is also a 281 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:57,400 Speaker 1: synonym or nickname for the Italian mafia. Interesting, it is interesting. 282 00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,240 Speaker 1: So the mafia would specifically refer to this idea of 283 00:17:00,320 --> 00:17:03,480 Speaker 1: la cosa nostra, which is something we've talked about off 284 00:17:03,520 --> 00:17:07,080 Speaker 1: Mike plenty, right, this thing of ours omerta is the code. 285 00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:11,359 Speaker 1: There's a gradient, Campanella says, from a proper noun to 286 00:17:11,400 --> 00:17:13,880 Speaker 1: a common noun. So he breaks it down saying, there's 287 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,760 Speaker 1: mafia with a capital M, and then there's the mob 288 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:22,159 Speaker 1: capital M, and then there's just no capital M mob, 289 00:17:22,359 --> 00:17:25,879 Speaker 1: and then there's mobsters, there's organized crime, and they're all 290 00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:29,680 Speaker 1: these affiliated parties. So he says, it's challenging and one 291 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:34,480 Speaker 1: must be careful about the terminology. And it's interesting because 292 00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: the government of Louisiana did not originally settle on mass 293 00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:44,600 Speaker 1: immigration of Sicilians. They apparently tried to recruit people from China, 294 00:17:45,119 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: they tried to recruit people from Scandinavia, Greece, Portugal, Spanish, 295 00:17:51,160 --> 00:17:55,879 Speaker 1: but they were able to entice Sicilian populations because in 296 00:17:56,000 --> 00:17:59,879 Speaker 1: post unification Sicily there were a ton of reasons for 297 00:18:00,080 --> 00:18:03,400 Speaker 1: people to get out. Life just wasn't super great. However, 298 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,760 Speaker 1: as this is a history show, we have to admit 299 00:18:07,040 --> 00:18:09,280 Speaker 1: there is a compelling reason that people think of the 300 00:18:09,320 --> 00:18:11,920 Speaker 1: mafia in New York now and not in New Orleans, 301 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:15,480 Speaker 1: and that's because it's not near as prominent now. Because 302 00:18:15,960 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: you know, we we said that those first inklings of 303 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,000 Speaker 1: problems began in the eighteen hundreds. By the eighteen seventies, 304 00:18:23,320 --> 00:18:28,240 Speaker 1: the Matrungka crime family has already been established in New Orleans. 305 00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:32,920 Speaker 1: They're collecting tributes their engagement racketeering, prostitution, extortion and so on. 306 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:36,000 Speaker 1: But they're not the only game in town. And fighting 307 00:18:36,240 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: is already breaking out in the eighteen eighties between the 308 00:18:39,119 --> 00:18:44,440 Speaker 1: crime families. They want to see who controls the waterfront, right, 309 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: and we talked this is ultimately what led to Hennessy's 310 00:18:49,720 --> 00:18:52,720 Speaker 1: death and then later the Lynch Mob, and it gave 311 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:57,040 Speaker 1: the mafia a lesson that they never forgot because in 312 00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,119 Speaker 1: Sicily there's a bit of a stereotype, but in other 313 00:19:00,200 --> 00:19:04,600 Speaker 1: in Italy overall, at the time criminals could act without 314 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:09,240 Speaker 1: much regard for authorities or societies. But now they learned, Okay, 315 00:19:09,280 --> 00:19:11,960 Speaker 1: there limits to what we can get away with here. 316 00:19:12,480 --> 00:19:14,600 Speaker 1: And this a lot of people will tell you that 317 00:19:14,680 --> 00:19:19,960 Speaker 1: this is what set the Italian American mafia on its 318 00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,480 Speaker 1: on its course of following strict rules against targeting law 319 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:28,440 Speaker 1: enforcement outside of very very special circumstances. Don't want to 320 00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:31,720 Speaker 1: keep it quiet absolutely. I mean, it's a big deal, 321 00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:34,840 Speaker 1: even in like these crime shows and movies when you 322 00:19:34,960 --> 00:19:37,680 Speaker 1: kill a policeman or somebody that's a member of law enforcement, 323 00:19:37,720 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: because that that is going to open you up for retaliation. 324 00:19:41,080 --> 00:19:44,280 Speaker 1: And ultimately you want to keep things as copasetic as 325 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:47,400 Speaker 1: possible and as contained as possible so you can continue operating, 326 00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, it's a business, 327 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:51,960 Speaker 1: it's not They're not just there to wreak mass havoc 328 00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: and terror and terrorize the community. They actually want to 329 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:57,679 Speaker 1: kind of be loved a little bit and revered in 330 00:19:57,720 --> 00:20:00,879 Speaker 1: some of these communities and have shop keep is feel 331 00:20:00,920 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 1: like they're kind of getting something for their money, you 332 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,440 Speaker 1: know what I mean, when they're paying these collections. Sure 333 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,200 Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a pain, but at the 334 00:20:08,280 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: end of the day, they're being protected from the enemy, 335 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,520 Speaker 1: from the other you know, crime families, or from anyone 336 00:20:13,560 --> 00:20:16,640 Speaker 1: that would maybe rob them. Because you're part of the community, 337 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: right right, it's a it's almost a parallel branch of society, 338 00:20:21,119 --> 00:20:24,439 Speaker 1: sort of like how the yaquaza will give out aid 339 00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: to victims of natural disasters. Uh, the mafia will also 340 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,600 Speaker 1: aid members of the community when it feels expedient and 341 00:20:33,720 --> 00:20:43,280 Speaker 1: advantageous for business. This is the crazy part though. So 342 00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:45,600 Speaker 1: we have all these Sicilians in the French quarter, right, 343 00:20:46,119 --> 00:20:51,440 Speaker 1: and the French quarters not the biggest quarter. So eventually, 344 00:20:52,119 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: say the nineteen thirties and forties, a lot of Sicilians 345 00:20:55,560 --> 00:20:58,800 Speaker 1: who live there begin to move out. And of course, 346 00:20:58,800 --> 00:21:01,240 Speaker 1: being a Sicilian it's silly that we have to say this, 347 00:21:01,359 --> 00:21:04,480 Speaker 1: but just to cover our bases. Being a Sicilian American 348 00:21:04,880 --> 00:21:08,000 Speaker 1: obviously does not automatically make you a member of the 349 00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:11,280 Speaker 1: mob of not only the cool ones. Yeah, you gotta 350 00:21:11,359 --> 00:21:14,040 Speaker 1: you gotta be made. You have to be a main man. Yeah, 351 00:21:14,119 --> 00:21:17,879 Speaker 1: you have to be made. So it's weird because during 352 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,760 Speaker 1: the twentieth century, the nineteen hundreds, it seems like the 353 00:21:21,880 --> 00:21:27,240 Speaker 1: Sicilian population was becoming more and more suburban. And now 354 00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:32,240 Speaker 1: they're only maybe a handful of Sicilian residents or people 355 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:35,760 Speaker 1: of Sicilian heritage living in the French Quarter, that's right. 356 00:21:35,840 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 1: And uh, not only that, probably even fewer um made 357 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:43,359 Speaker 1: men that are living in uh in New Orleans and 358 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:47,119 Speaker 1: continuing to do any kind of Kosa Nostra associated business 359 00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:49,760 Speaker 1: because you know, the mafia still exists. It is a thing. 360 00:21:50,119 --> 00:21:52,199 Speaker 1: You definitely don't hear as much about it because it 361 00:21:52,240 --> 00:21:56,440 Speaker 1: seems like because of FBI UH changes in the way 362 00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:59,600 Speaker 1: they can prosecute organized crime, it's a little bit more 363 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: difficult to get away with it, like the Rico Act 364 00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,600 Speaker 1: and such. But you know, I mean there's I'm sure 365 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:06,919 Speaker 1: they just kind of adapted and changed the game a 366 00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:08,439 Speaker 1: little bit and try and stay a little bit more 367 00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,040 Speaker 1: under the radar. And we do have we do have 368 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: at least one example, right of a famous Sicilian mafio 369 00:22:16,040 --> 00:22:19,640 Speaker 1: so from New Orleans. Yeah, that's right. Carlos Marcella kind 370 00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: of became the head honcho UM in New Orleans organized crime. Uh. 371 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,760 Speaker 1: He was born to a Sicilian family in Tunisia. His 372 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,800 Speaker 1: name was Carlo Gero Mina Coori. Ohh, and we know 373 00:22:33,920 --> 00:22:38,040 Speaker 1: him as Carlos little Man, that's right. And he immigrated 374 00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:41,800 Speaker 1: directly to Louisiana in nineteen eleven, and he turned to 375 00:22:41,840 --> 00:22:46,520 Speaker 1: crime before he was even a teenager and already began 376 00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:49,719 Speaker 1: working in the French Quarter, which at that point was 377 00:22:49,960 --> 00:22:54,240 Speaker 1: the cities little Italy, right right. He joined the Matrona family. 378 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,040 Speaker 1: We mentioned earlier that they were also known as the 379 00:22:57,119 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: Black Hand or Sicilian black Hand, and he, along with 380 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:05,159 Speaker 1: the rest of the crime family, controlled operations at New 381 00:23:05,280 --> 00:23:10,040 Speaker 1: Orleans Docks. So they were smuggling prostitution, uh, drug trafficking, 382 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: gambling and then of course as soon as prohibition kicks in, 383 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:18,720 Speaker 1: you know what that means money, money, monde legging, the speaker, 384 00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,000 Speaker 1: speakeasies and all that stuff. And that's that's the kind 385 00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:22,760 Speaker 1: of thing you think about. You can picture in New 386 00:23:22,840 --> 00:23:24,920 Speaker 1: Orleans during that time. It's like these kind of smoky 387 00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:29,520 Speaker 1: underground lounges with like jazz singers and uh, you know, 388 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:34,160 Speaker 1: cocktails flowing and all that stuff. Right, And Marcelo sort 389 00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:37,440 Speaker 1: of has a story that that could be an episode 390 00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:40,879 Speaker 1: of its own. You know, he he got into and 391 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:45,640 Speaker 1: out of jail. He had been arrested and beat raps before. 392 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,080 Speaker 1: Like it's it's surprising. I would be surprised if there 393 00:23:49,119 --> 00:23:53,240 Speaker 1: was not already a film about his life. But even 394 00:23:53,359 --> 00:23:59,280 Speaker 1: today he is the subject of speculation and conspiracy theories, 395 00:23:59,320 --> 00:24:01,399 Speaker 1: and you'll hear that he is one of the people 396 00:24:01,480 --> 00:24:05,240 Speaker 1: who was part of the conversation that led to the 397 00:24:05,280 --> 00:24:09,879 Speaker 1: assassination of President JFK in November of nineteen. That's right, 398 00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:14,720 Speaker 1: because Robert Kennedy was a big proponent of bringing down 399 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,360 Speaker 1: Marcelo because of the fact that he had done such 400 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,240 Speaker 1: a good job of avoiding any kind of consequences to 401 00:24:20,480 --> 00:24:23,560 Speaker 1: his career and organized crime. In fact, I don't think 402 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:27,560 Speaker 1: it was until uh the age of like seventy two 403 00:24:27,800 --> 00:24:30,840 Speaker 1: that he got convicted of any kind of felonies. So, yeah, 404 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:33,120 Speaker 1: you're right, then maybe he gets his own episode for sure. 405 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:36,560 Speaker 1: I love the conspiracy angle and the fact that Robert, Yeah, 406 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,600 Speaker 1: there's Jack Rubies tied up in all of this and 407 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: Dallas and Lee Harvey Oswald all that stuff, big central 408 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,239 Speaker 1: figure in the whole JFK thing. But that is for 409 00:24:44,280 --> 00:24:48,359 Speaker 1: another day. That is for a another day. However, no 410 00:24:48,600 --> 00:24:51,679 Speaker 1: I propose that this counts as our Louisiana episode. It 411 00:24:51,720 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: has to. It was definitely about Louisiana, AM and Louisiana. 412 00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:59,359 Speaker 1: New Orleans have been on on my mind, in particular 413 00:24:59,480 --> 00:25:03,560 Speaker 1: given the threatening weather that's coming through as this podcast 414 00:25:03,680 --> 00:25:08,200 Speaker 1: is recorded and releases. We want to wish everybody out 415 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,800 Speaker 1: there best of luck, Stay safe, stay dry, stay connected, 416 00:25:13,160 --> 00:25:15,840 Speaker 1: have have a plan. I've got some friends in New 417 00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:18,240 Speaker 1: Orleans who have been keeping me up to date. Until 418 00:25:18,359 --> 00:25:20,119 Speaker 1: just a few days ago they thought they might have 419 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: to evacuate. Everybody was on the edge of their seat. 420 00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:26,520 Speaker 1: So if you are listening from New Orleans, please say 421 00:25:26,520 --> 00:25:30,760 Speaker 1: hello to your fair metropolis. Love it, miss it. Always 422 00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:33,119 Speaker 1: want to go check out the city and let us 423 00:25:33,160 --> 00:25:36,080 Speaker 1: know some of your favorite New Orleans stories. You don't 424 00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:38,399 Speaker 1: have to be from there to tell us. It doesn't 425 00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:40,760 Speaker 1: have to be a huge historical moment. What's a good 426 00:25:40,840 --> 00:25:42,840 Speaker 1: time you had in New Orleans. I've only been the 427 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:44,879 Speaker 1: ones and the weather was terrible. The whole time was 428 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:47,760 Speaker 1: rainy and dreary, But I loved every second and it 429 00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 1: was so much fun and I really hope to go 430 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:51,680 Speaker 1: back again soon. Um yeah, you can write us all 431 00:25:51,720 --> 00:25:54,280 Speaker 1: that stuff at Ridiculous at I Heart radio dot com. 432 00:25:54,320 --> 00:25:56,199 Speaker 1: You can check us out on our Facebook group, the 433 00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:59,040 Speaker 1: Ridiculous Historians, where you can interact with your other members. 434 00:25:59,119 --> 00:26:01,240 Speaker 1: There was a really good one. Somebody posted a meme today. 435 00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,440 Speaker 1: Uh it was. It was a very meta meme because 436 00:26:03,440 --> 00:26:05,360 Speaker 1: it was an image of Christopher Columbus and his crew 437 00:26:05,359 --> 00:26:08,480 Speaker 1: and it says, I don't steal memes, I discover them. 438 00:26:08,640 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 1: I saw that one. Yes, you can also find us 439 00:26:11,880 --> 00:26:16,679 Speaker 1: on Instagram and Twitter. I'm at Ben Pollan HSW on Twitter. 440 00:26:17,160 --> 00:26:20,639 Speaker 1: You can see my various work and non work adventures 441 00:26:20,680 --> 00:26:23,520 Speaker 1: on Instagram where I am at Ben Boland. I don't 442 00:26:23,520 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: really do the Twitter, but you can find me on 443 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:29,320 Speaker 1: Instagram at how Now. Noel Brown big big thanks as 444 00:26:29,359 --> 00:26:33,680 Speaker 1: always to Casey le Bush pegram Big thanks to our 445 00:26:33,880 --> 00:26:36,600 Speaker 1: friend of the show, Christopher Haciotis, who we need to 446 00:26:36,600 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: have on. Uh it's been too long, it has been 447 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:40,560 Speaker 1: to Those are some of my favorite episodes that we 448 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,119 Speaker 1: do with Christopher. Thanks to Alex Williams, who compose our 449 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:46,720 Speaker 1: theme research associate Gabe Luzier for always being a boss. 450 00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:50,200 Speaker 1: And thanks to you, Ben for um not having me 451 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,320 Speaker 1: whacked yet. Omert is the code. I am a legitimate 452 00:26:54,359 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 1: businessman working in imports, so I guess the best thing 453 00:26:58,040 --> 00:27:01,040 Speaker 1: to say is not my department, no, A welcome, We'll 454 00:27:01,080 --> 00:27:10,960 Speaker 1: see you next time Fox. For more podcasts from My 455 00:27:11,040 --> 00:27:13,680 Speaker 1: Heart Radio, visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, 456 00:27:13,760 --> 00:27:15,919 Speaker 1: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.