WEBVTT - Are computers more eco-friendly than paper? 0:00:00.320 --> 0:00:02.880 Brought to you by the reinvented two thousand twelve camera. 0:00:03.200 --> 0:00:08.760 It's ready. Are you get in touch with technology with 0:00:08.920 --> 0:00:13.280 tex Stuff from how stuff works dot com. This podcast 0:00:13.360 --> 0:00:15.760 is brought to you by Verizon Hub, the home phone 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:22.360 reinvented exclusively from Verizon Wireless. Hello there, everybody, and welcome 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:24.680 to tech Stuff. My name is Chris Poulette and I'm 0:00:24.680 --> 0:00:27.520 an editor here at how stuff works dot com. Sitting 0:00:27.600 --> 0:00:30.960 next to me, as usual, is senior writer Jonathan Strickland. 0:00:31.080 --> 0:00:34.360 Hey there, Wow, it's been a long time since I've 0:00:34.360 --> 0:00:38.320 heard that. Yeah, my World War Worldwide Rather tour is over, 0:00:39.360 --> 0:00:42.920 so I'm back to Hey there, all right, So what 0:00:42.960 --> 0:00:45.000 are we gonna talk about today? Oh? Well, actually today 0:00:45.040 --> 0:00:47.919 we're going to talk about subject that was brought up 0:00:47.920 --> 0:00:51.680 by one of our listeners. This is from Sandra Almost 0:00:51.680 --> 0:00:55.960 said Sarah. I'm sorry, Sandra. Here's what she has to say. Hi, 0:00:56.200 --> 0:00:58.920 Chris and Jonathan. First, let me say I really enjoy 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:01.840 your podcast and listen to every episode. Thanks for all 0:01:01.840 --> 0:01:05.399 the hard work. I'm learning a lot and it's mostly painless. 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:07.319 I bet that has something to do with the jokes 0:01:07.360 --> 0:01:10.840 we tell. I'm all right, I'm writing to suggest an 0:01:10.880 --> 0:01:13.320 idea for a podcast. Over the last few years, we've 0:01:13.319 --> 0:01:16.840 moved to doing everything online, from banking and paying bills 0:01:16.920 --> 0:01:20.319 to entertainment and socializing. While it's true we can save 0:01:20.360 --> 0:01:23.319 paper and gas by doing more online, I think it's 0:01:23.360 --> 0:01:27.600 misleading to think it's more energy efficient overall. I recently 0:01:27.680 --> 0:01:31.360 read an article that said we have to build five 0:01:31.400 --> 0:01:34.760 new power plants every year just to support the increased 0:01:34.840 --> 0:01:38.160 energy needed for I T alone. That would be bad 0:01:38.280 --> 0:01:41.920 enough if server farms operated at peak efficiency, but apparently 0:01:41.959 --> 0:01:45.800 they're incredibly inefficient, so much of this energy is wasted. 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.440 I'd like to learn more about the impact of our 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:52.200 bandwidth hungry lifestyle and its impact on the environment and 0:01:52.280 --> 0:01:55.560 our economy. I hope you'll consider this for a future podcast. 0:01:55.880 --> 0:01:59.000 Thanks for considering it, Sandra, Well, Sandra, thanks a lot 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:01.720 for writing in. That's an ex silent email, and we're 0:02:01.720 --> 0:02:05.680 gonna try and tackle this. It's it turns out this 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:09.400 is a really tricky subject to to talk about, not 0:02:09.480 --> 0:02:12.000 because of any controversy or anything like that, but just 0:02:12.080 --> 0:02:15.880 because when you start to look at the whole issue, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.680 you begin to realize the picture is a little larger 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:21.560 than what you first thought. Right. Oh, definitely and then 0:02:21.600 --> 0:02:23.040 you look at that and you're like, wait, wait, wait, 0:02:23.040 --> 0:02:24.840 wait wait, if I have to consider this, then I 0:02:24.880 --> 0:02:26.799 need to consider this next element. So the picture gets 0:02:26.800 --> 0:02:29.560 a little bigger, and it gets bigger and bigger until 0:02:29.760 --> 0:02:33.160 you end up hiding under your desk and weeping softly 0:02:34.000 --> 0:02:38.600 speak for yourself. Okay, Well, Josh, Josh knows I often 0:02:38.639 --> 0:02:41.880 actually will hide under his desk because he's very comforting. Yes, 0:02:42.000 --> 0:02:45.120 I understand. Yeah, As it turns out, we sort of 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:48.680 worked ourselves into a hole, so to speak, because, um, 0:02:48.919 --> 0:02:53.680 we rely on both paper and computer technology. Um, and 0:02:53.800 --> 0:02:57.640 neither one of them is particularly environmentally friendly, and neither 0:02:57.680 --> 0:03:01.320 one of them is particularly harm so much more than 0:03:01.320 --> 0:03:05.400 the other. Yeah, they're harmful in different ways. Yeah they're yeah, exactly, 0:03:05.440 --> 0:03:07.680 and they're good and bad things about both. So, um, 0:03:07.680 --> 0:03:11.720 I was gonna tackle print and paper to start with, 0:03:11.760 --> 0:03:15.960 if you don't mind. Okay. So I was reading up 0:03:16.200 --> 0:03:19.400 on a couple of different subjects, one of the which was, 0:03:20.160 --> 0:03:23.880 you know, how much uh energy it takes to create 0:03:23.919 --> 0:03:26.799 a book? Um. There was another one that was talking 0:03:26.800 --> 0:03:29.760 about how much energy it takes to make a ream 0:03:29.800 --> 0:03:32.359 of paper, And you know, it's it's an interesting thing 0:03:32.400 --> 0:03:34.440 to read about and really again, you have to think 0:03:34.440 --> 0:03:37.320 about the whole big picture, not just how many trees 0:03:37.360 --> 0:03:41.200 you had to cut down or you know, the processing 0:03:41.240 --> 0:03:44.560 plant for the trees to turn the lumber into paper. Um, 0:03:44.560 --> 0:03:45.720 there are a lot of different things you have to 0:03:45.760 --> 0:03:47.800 think about, like after after the papers made, it has 0:03:47.800 --> 0:03:51.360 to be shipped somewhere. When it's being shipped somewhere, that 0:03:51.360 --> 0:03:53.840 that the fuel is going to put an impact on 0:03:53.880 --> 0:03:57.520 the environment. The uh, just the travel and wear and 0:03:57.560 --> 0:04:01.080 tear puts an impact. I mean eventually you start looking 0:04:01.080 --> 0:04:03.360 at this like a domino effect, right, Like okay, well 0:04:03.400 --> 0:04:05.840 that also means you have to maintain the trucks and 0:04:05.880 --> 0:04:08.280 the trains and wait a minute, that also means that 0:04:08.320 --> 0:04:09.920 if it goes into a store, you have to pay 0:04:09.960 --> 0:04:12.240 for things like lights in the store. Like where does 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.960 it end? Is the question? But in general. There was 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:18.840 a study done by the Book Industry Study Group and 0:04:18.920 --> 0:04:22.680 Green Press Initiative not too long ago where they try 0:04:22.760 --> 0:04:27.280 to estimate how much carbon is produced through the publication 0:04:27.360 --> 0:04:31.400 of a single book. The conclusion that they came to 0:04:31.600 --> 0:04:35.520 was that each book contributes about eight point eight five 0:04:35.680 --> 0:04:39.960 pounds of carbon. So every single book you see, essentially 0:04:40.000 --> 0:04:44.600 that's what it took to make that book possible, including 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.320 you know, coffee table books. Yeah, well, I mean I 0:04:47.360 --> 0:04:53.159 think it's I think it's an average because, yeah, I'm saying, 0:04:53.200 --> 0:04:55.320 like the monster at the end of this book probably 0:04:55.320 --> 0:04:58.240 doesn't have as big an environmental impact as say, the 0:04:58.279 --> 0:05:02.719 Lord of the Rings. Now impact upon my life equally huge, 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:06.720 but not upon the environment. Um And they also estimated 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:11.680 that the publishing industry generates about twelve point for million 0:05:11.760 --> 0:05:15.520 metric tons of carbon per year. It's a lot of carbon. 0:05:15.640 --> 0:05:18.599 Significant And now you have to also remember that when 0:05:18.600 --> 0:05:22.080 you're creating paper, obviously you're creating paper from lumber. You're 0:05:22.080 --> 0:05:23.839 gonna have to get that lumber somewhere, so you have 0:05:23.880 --> 0:05:26.960 to cut down trees. And trees are what we call 0:05:27.120 --> 0:05:33.040 a carbon sink. So trees help take carbon out of 0:05:33.040 --> 0:05:37.360 the environment, mostly through carbon dioxide. Um And So if 0:05:37.360 --> 0:05:39.240 you start cutting down the trees, not only are you 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:42.920 in the process that you're going through to create whatever 0:05:42.960 --> 0:05:45.360 it is you're creating in this case paper, not only 0:05:45.400 --> 0:05:48.280 are you creating carbon that's going into the environment, you're 0:05:48.279 --> 0:05:52.480 taking away the the ability to absorb that carbon because 0:05:52.480 --> 0:05:56.960 you're removing some of the trees. So that's that's not 0:05:57.040 --> 0:06:01.360 good for the environment. And uh, and we've been consuming 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:05.479 more and more paper products, um as the years have 0:06:05.520 --> 0:06:11.240 gone by. I read an interesting report by green pdf. Now, granted, 0:06:11.400 --> 0:06:13.159 you have to take this with a grain of salt. 0:06:13.279 --> 0:06:16.640 You have to always consider the source of the information 0:06:16.760 --> 0:06:21.560 you're receiving. Um. If you're receiving information from an environmental 0:06:21.680 --> 0:06:26.320 like a pro environment kind of source, you have to remember, 0:06:26.320 --> 0:06:27.960 all right, well, let's look around see if there's any 0:06:27.960 --> 0:06:31.479 other independent sources that verify this information. Same thing if 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.640 you read from a pro industry source. Right, absolutely, so 0:06:34.800 --> 0:06:37.080 you want to be far as much as the time 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:39.120 as you can. Right. You don't wanna you don't want 0:06:39.120 --> 0:06:44.479 to just assume that the information you're reading is in fact, uh, 0:06:44.520 --> 0:06:47.360 completely accurate. You need to kind of look around. But 0:06:47.480 --> 0:06:52.719 what green pdf said was that on average, uh, each 0:06:52.800 --> 0:06:57.040 person in the world consumes about a hundred and twenty 0:06:57.120 --> 0:07:02.719 three pounds of paper per year, and of the paper 0:07:02.920 --> 0:07:06.359 consumed is used in printing documents, and the average office 0:07:06.400 --> 0:07:10.800 employee uses seven reams of paper per year. All right, 0:07:10.840 --> 0:07:12.760 so here's some more figures for you. One point one 0:07:12.840 --> 0:07:16.400 billion trees are cut down for this paper supply each year, 0:07:17.200 --> 0:07:21.280 fifty million metric tons of lumber. And uh you think 0:07:21.400 --> 0:07:24.640 each tree removes about one ton one metric ton of 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:28.080 carbon dioxide from the atmosphere each year. Uh. And each 0:07:28.160 --> 0:07:31.560 tree can make about a hundred and seventy three realms 0:07:31.560 --> 0:07:35.560 of paper. Okay, so there's a lot of a lot 0:07:35.600 --> 0:07:38.120 of figures, facts and figures for you. A realm of paper, 0:07:38.240 --> 0:07:41.280 by the way, UM, producing it dumps about twelve pounds 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:45.440 of carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. UM. So you know 0:07:46.320 --> 0:07:51.000 obviously that's a big environmental impact. UM. I mean, trees 0:07:51.040 --> 0:07:55.200 are a renewable resource. You can grow more uh trees 0:07:55.240 --> 0:07:57.280 if you need to. And the thing is a lot 0:07:57.280 --> 0:08:00.440 of environmental organizations will tell you that they there is 0:08:01.040 --> 0:08:05.640 some difference between trees taken from a sustainable forest versus 0:08:05.760 --> 0:08:09.040 old growth trees. And there are some companies that are 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:10.840 I mean, if you really want to go looking for it, 0:08:10.880 --> 0:08:14.960 you can find lists of companies that will tell you 0:08:15.080 --> 0:08:20.080 the ones who use sustainable lumber versus old growth forests. UM. 0:08:20.120 --> 0:08:23.400 You know, if you are so inclined to do that. UM. 0:08:23.600 --> 0:08:26.920 The thing also that I you know that I think 0:08:26.920 --> 0:08:29.680 that we should mention is the chemicals, because if you're 0:08:29.680 --> 0:08:33.040 creating say a craft paper bag, you know, brown paper 0:08:33.040 --> 0:08:35.280 bag that you would see at a grocery store. You know, 0:08:35.440 --> 0:08:38.120 that's pretty much that doesn't really require a lot of 0:08:38.120 --> 0:08:41.520 of coloring. But if you want bleached white paper that 0:08:41.520 --> 0:08:44.280 that you'd get for you know, for example, school notebook 0:08:44.320 --> 0:08:47.760 paper or um paper for your laser printer, that takes 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.920 bleach and those chemicals go into a water source someplace 0:08:51.920 --> 0:08:54.600 in a lot of cases, Um, you know. I I 0:08:54.640 --> 0:09:00.320 remember actually driving across Tennessee, UH and seeing signs an 0:09:00.400 --> 0:09:03.960 environmental organization and taking out signs near the Pigeon River 0:09:04.400 --> 0:09:07.719 because there was a paper plant upstream and they they 0:09:07.800 --> 0:09:10.760 used the billboard and it changed ever ever so often, 0:09:11.400 --> 0:09:13.679 but it would actually you know, point out that this 0:09:13.720 --> 0:09:18.240 particular paper company was you know, dumping chemicals into the water. 0:09:18.600 --> 0:09:21.440 And uh, you know, it affects a lot of things. 0:09:21.520 --> 0:09:23.880 It's not just you know, the trees being cut down 0:09:23.920 --> 0:09:26.640 in the carbon dock side. It has another impact on 0:09:26.679 --> 0:09:30.679 the environment just from the actual production, the other costs 0:09:30.720 --> 0:09:33.040 of production, if you will. Sure. Yeah, I I grew 0:09:33.120 --> 0:09:37.880 up in uh near Lake Lanier, um in in Hull County, Georgia, 0:09:38.080 --> 0:09:40.559 and UH and we had paper mills, not too far 0:09:40.600 --> 0:09:42.240 from the house. So when the wind was blowing in 0:09:42.280 --> 0:09:45.720 a certain direction, you'd get that lovely oh yeah scent 0:09:45.880 --> 0:09:48.120 of the paper mill. It was blowing in the other direction, 0:09:49.080 --> 0:09:52.520 chicken farms, so it was blowing in one particular direction. 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:55.560 You got the best of both worlds. Oh yeah, and 0:09:55.559 --> 0:09:58.000 then you know, you get the environmental impact of both 0:09:58.000 --> 0:10:01.880 of those, right, yeah, tasting, So that that's kind of 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:03.760 the whole paper thing. So we're talking, you know, and 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:05.760 of course there are ways you can you can reduce 0:10:05.880 --> 0:10:09.360 the environmental impact of using paper. If you're using paper 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.720 that that is certified as carbon neutral, arguably that means 0:10:13.760 --> 0:10:16.760 that the company is doing something to offset the fact 0:10:16.840 --> 0:10:19.600 that they're taking trees. Uh there, you know, they're cutting 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:23.160 them down, maybe they're planning more, maybe they're buying carbon offsets. 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:26.840 But if you have a carbon neutral kind of solution 0:10:26.880 --> 0:10:29.480 to your paper, you might not be making quite as 0:10:29.520 --> 0:10:32.840 big an impact on the environment. Now, there's still other elements. 0:10:32.880 --> 0:10:34.560 You know, you were still talking about the production and 0:10:34.600 --> 0:10:37.960 the shipping, shipping, just the you know, just just the 0:10:38.040 --> 0:10:40.800 energy you need to run a plant. I mean that 0:10:40.960 --> 0:10:44.840 that that energy that's coming from that electricity. So you know, 0:10:44.880 --> 0:10:47.080 there's still things that are going to affect the environment, 0:10:47.120 --> 0:10:51.120 whether or not you're using like totally recycled paper or whatever. 0:10:51.760 --> 0:10:54.480 That that's true. UM, And of course there are costs 0:10:54.720 --> 0:10:59.200 environmental costs and um financial costs to recycling to it 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:02.559 does help, of course. So if you buy recycled paper, UM, 0:11:02.600 --> 0:11:05.640 that encourages them to continue making recycled paper and to 0:11:05.760 --> 0:11:09.360 recycled paper when you you know, are done using it. UM. 0:11:09.440 --> 0:11:12.640 You can always use the backsides of paper. Try to 0:11:12.720 --> 0:11:15.680 duplex print if you're going to have to print something. 0:11:16.320 --> 0:11:18.000 Here's one of my big pet peeves. If you work 0:11:18.000 --> 0:11:20.000 in an office where people do a lot of printing, 0:11:20.920 --> 0:11:23.800 you're gonna see a giant stack of stuff that people 0:11:23.840 --> 0:11:26.560 printed out but never came to pick up. Don't be 0:11:26.600 --> 0:11:28.480 one of those people. If you're going to print something, 0:11:28.640 --> 0:11:31.600 print it because you need it and you're actually gonna 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.280 use it. That that's just one of my big pet peeves. 0:11:34.520 --> 0:11:36.840 You know, I I find that I need to use 0:11:36.880 --> 0:11:39.360 paper from time to time. I try not to use 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:43.560 tons of it ha ha literally but no figuratively speaking. 0:11:43.640 --> 0:11:46.320 And the thing is, you know, I go over there 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:47.439 and I see that big pile of paper, and it 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:51.800 stress me crazy. Um, so they understand that. The one 0:11:51.840 --> 0:11:55.320 thing though, that I that I find interesting about paper 0:11:55.400 --> 0:11:58.040 when I think, well I'm going to shift to online, 0:11:58.120 --> 0:12:02.680 is once the paper is produced, it's produced. It's it's there. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:05.720 It's not doing anything. It's not you know, contributing to 0:12:06.000 --> 0:12:09.360 or or detracting from the CEO two levels of the planet. 0:12:10.120 --> 0:12:13.520 So I mean, if you have paper and are using 0:12:13.520 --> 0:12:16.480 it responsibly and not over using it, then you know 0:12:16.559 --> 0:12:19.160 it's a sustainable resource. So there's something to be said 0:12:19.200 --> 0:12:21.800 for a piece of paper as opposed to say, a computer, 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:24.920 which is going to draw a power constantly. I mean, 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.280 unless you've unplugged it or you're using a uh one 0:12:29.280 --> 0:12:32.959 of the power strips that can prevent vampire power from 0:12:33.000 --> 0:12:36.160 going on your your computer is always drawing some power. 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:40.240 Vampire power for the uninitiated, is um say you have 0:12:40.320 --> 0:12:43.880 your computer plugged into a power strip and you've turned 0:12:43.920 --> 0:12:46.040 it off so that you can go to work the computer. 0:12:46.120 --> 0:12:48.839 That is right, right, that's a good point. That's a 0:12:48.880 --> 0:12:51.040 good point. You turn your computer off, that left the 0:12:51.040 --> 0:12:53.880 power strip on your computer is still going to be 0:12:54.000 --> 0:12:55.680 drawing some power. As a matter of fact, if you 0:12:55.840 --> 0:12:58.200 if you have a desktop computer like a tower and 0:12:58.240 --> 0:13:00.280 you take the side of it off for the front 0:13:00.280 --> 0:13:01.959 of it off where you can actually see, you'll probably 0:13:02.000 --> 0:13:04.640 see a couple of the little LEDs inside that tell 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:08.440 you that there's something going on. Um. It's basically keeping 0:13:08.480 --> 0:13:10.240 the machine running. It. The same could be said for 0:13:10.280 --> 0:13:12.400 your TV. People don't want to wait for the TV 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:17.080 to come on, so the manufacturers built in you know, uh, 0:13:17.120 --> 0:13:20.319 the capacity to store energy so that you can turn 0:13:20.360 --> 0:13:23.280 it on and it pops on very quickly. Well, the 0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.600 thing is, it takes electricity to do that, you know, 0:13:26.720 --> 0:13:28.880 very low flow, and that's called vampire power. If you 0:13:28.920 --> 0:13:32.120 turn the power strip off, it stops drawing power. Unplugging 0:13:32.160 --> 0:13:35.480 it will really stop it. Yeah and um. And and 0:13:35.480 --> 0:13:37.959 then we should point out that even the vampire power, 0:13:38.080 --> 0:13:42.720 although it is you know, a constant thing, um, it's 0:13:42.760 --> 0:13:45.679 not drawing nearly the same amount of power as your 0:13:45.720 --> 0:13:48.640 computer would when it's running, especially if it's running like 0:13:49.160 --> 0:13:53.720 full speed, like running a very heavy application. UM. So 0:13:55.240 --> 0:13:57.600 when we're talking about computers, were really looking at things 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:00.960 like energy efficiency. Uh, you know, whether or not you 0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.319 are using any of the sleep or idle modes, or 0:14:04.360 --> 0:14:07.679 if you're turning your computer off. Um. And also not 0:14:07.720 --> 0:14:10.720 only that. But when you're talking about online applications now 0:14:10.760 --> 0:14:13.240 you have to look at, as Sandra pointed out, data 0:14:13.240 --> 0:14:16.480 centers and data centers. They okay, for those who don't know, 0:14:16.559 --> 0:14:20.880 a data center is essentially a collection of servers, and 0:14:20.960 --> 0:14:23.600 it could be a small center. And when when I 0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:25.640 say small, most people would think of a small center. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.320 Like most people the I T. Baz would say, like, 0:14:27.320 --> 0:14:31.000 a hundred servers is kind of small. Google has has 0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:33.680 data centers that with the servers that number in the 0:14:33.760 --> 0:14:38.120 thousands and tens of thousands, and they've got these enormous 0:14:38.160 --> 0:14:42.120 buildings their size of several warehouses put together, filled with 0:14:42.160 --> 0:14:45.600 these machines all running, their generating tons of heat, they're 0:14:45.600 --> 0:14:48.760 consuming lots of electricity, and they always have to be 0:14:48.880 --> 0:14:52.680 on because if they go off, your service goes away. 0:14:52.880 --> 0:14:55.280 That's that's no more Gmail. That's no more access to 0:14:55.400 --> 0:14:57.200 any of the files that you've stored in the cloud, 0:14:57.280 --> 0:15:01.120 that's no more Search exactly. Yeah. So the thing about 0:15:01.160 --> 0:15:05.000 that is that those machines are constantly running, and there 0:15:05.040 --> 0:15:09.120 are probably at least hundreds of thousands, if not millions, 0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.000 of machines doing that at anyone given time. And the 0:15:12.040 --> 0:15:14.920 Internet is made up of computers talking to one another, right, 0:15:15.000 --> 0:15:19.000 and and a computer running, uh, you know, actively running 0:15:19.400 --> 0:15:21.720 can consume anywhere between I don't know what, like like 0:15:21.760 --> 0:15:24.120 a hundred and something wats per hour to up to 0:15:24.200 --> 0:15:27.680 three hundred depending on the machine, maybe even more, I 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.600 guess if you've got to really power hungry device. But 0:15:32.720 --> 0:15:34.840 so you gotta think there are these thousands and thousands 0:15:34.840 --> 0:15:36.400 of machines that are running all the time. If you're 0:15:36.440 --> 0:15:39.840 using a lot of online services, UM, then you're contributing 0:15:39.840 --> 0:15:43.560 to the need for more machines, which means that you know, 0:15:43.680 --> 0:15:49.440 you're indirectly you are contributing to an environmental impact. So, uh, 0:15:49.680 --> 0:15:51.880 what what can we do about this? Well, I mean, 0:15:51.920 --> 0:15:54.440 if you don't use it, I don't think they're going 0:15:54.480 --> 0:15:57.960 to be fewer computers out there. But what we can 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.360 really hope for is that these companies will start looking 0:16:01.360 --> 0:16:05.760 into ways to um to power their data centers in 0:16:06.000 --> 0:16:09.760 a renewable fashion that's not dependent upon you know, traditional 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:14.520 electricity power plants to generate electricity. Google's doing that. As 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:17.320 a matter of FACTUM, I have some family up in 0:16:17.360 --> 0:16:22.760 the Northwest, and um Google has they generated headlines generated 0:16:22.800 --> 0:16:26.600 sorry for the pun generated headlines. A few a couple 0:16:26.640 --> 0:16:29.000 of years ago because they were building a giant data 0:16:29.040 --> 0:16:34.560 center UM in a town near Portlands called the Dolls UM. 0:16:34.760 --> 0:16:37.800 The thing is, you'd think, wow, that's you know that 0:16:37.880 --> 0:16:40.400 you look at the the Google Earth view of this 0:16:40.440 --> 0:16:42.280 place and you go, man, that's got to have tons 0:16:42.280 --> 0:16:44.960 and tons of computers. And I'm and I'm sure it does. However, 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:48.680 it's also along the Columbia River and the from what 0:16:48.800 --> 0:16:51.840 I understand that that data center draws a lot of 0:16:51.880 --> 0:16:56.240 its power from water, right, hydroelectric power exactly, So you know, 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:58.560 there are there are things that they're doing there and uh, 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.920 I believe a solar power to to try to offset 0:17:01.960 --> 0:17:06.960 some of the uh fossil fuel costs the electricity there. 0:17:07.240 --> 0:17:10.840 And and also I just wrote a blog post about 0:17:10.840 --> 0:17:12.919 this recently. As of the recording of this podcast. By 0:17:12.960 --> 0:17:15.160 the time this goes live, it will actually be old news, 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.600 but you can always go back and look at it. UM. 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:21.399 But I did a blog post about this patent that 0:17:21.440 --> 0:17:25.119 Google applied for and was granted for a floating data center, 0:17:25.720 --> 0:17:28.520 and it's essentially a data center on a boat, and 0:17:28.880 --> 0:17:34.480 the full design incorporates UM some devices that generate electricity 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:38.040 through the motion of water so both waves and tidal motions, 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.160 and UM and also uses the water as a coolant 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.600 to keep the servers cool, so it doesn't have to 0:17:44.240 --> 0:17:47.040 you know, it doesn't. It can just utilize the power 0:17:47.040 --> 0:17:49.159 of the sea to keep it going and it's not 0:17:49.240 --> 0:17:53.800 drawing power from a power plant like most data centers are. Well, um, 0:17:53.880 --> 0:17:57.280 you know, Google actually has its own organization in house 0:17:57.520 --> 0:18:01.280 that looks at renewable energy sources. It's called ARIS lesson 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:05.879 C and UM I actually this had come up before 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.040 we had started talked about the idea of writing an 0:18:08.080 --> 0:18:11.480 article or doing a podcast about this subject. Before UM 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.679 and UM I got some information on that. Um Eric Tetzel, 0:18:15.720 --> 0:18:18.919 who's the program manager for ARIS lesson C, said that 0:18:18.960 --> 0:18:22.280 a Google search takes three ten thousands of a kill 0:18:22.320 --> 0:18:26.119 a lot, which generates about point two grams of c 0:18:26.320 --> 0:18:31.119 O two every time you search Google. So you know, 0:18:31.359 --> 0:18:35.080 it's small, it's a very small impact. However, you know 0:18:35.080 --> 0:18:38.040 how many people are searching Google every day any point 0:18:38.119 --> 0:18:40.159 of the day. Yeah, sure, so, I mean if you 0:18:40.160 --> 0:18:45.119 think about that and how much that search energy is, 0:18:45.760 --> 0:18:48.800 you know the cost of that search energy. Google and 0:18:48.920 --> 0:18:51.440 other companies have good reason to look into other sources 0:18:51.480 --> 0:18:55.800 because I mean environmental impact aside, it's got a financial impact. 0:18:56.200 --> 0:18:58.840 So if they could find some renewable sources, especially non 0:18:58.880 --> 0:19:02.160 polluting ones that you know, make them look better, I mean, 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:04.720 it's it's a win exactly, it's a it's a good 0:19:04.720 --> 0:19:06.880 move for them. And and just like we were talking 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.080 with the paper, with all the additional factors that you 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:11.960 have to take into account, the same things true with computers. 0:19:12.000 --> 0:19:14.600 I mean, if you're ultimately you're gonna have to think, Okay, 0:19:14.600 --> 0:19:18.360 what did it cost environmentally speaking to produce this computer? 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:23.200 What did it cost environmentally speaking to build the data centers? Um? 0:19:23.280 --> 0:19:26.120 You know, it's it's these are costs that are essentially 0:19:26.119 --> 0:19:29.160 one time costs for per machine, just like a book 0:19:29.200 --> 0:19:31.960 is a one time cost. But it's like, again, you 0:19:32.000 --> 0:19:35.399 start looking at this big picture situation where everything gets 0:19:35.440 --> 0:19:38.600 linked in together, and there's there's not really an easy 0:19:38.680 --> 0:19:40.840 solution because there's no real way where you can just 0:19:40.920 --> 0:19:43.439 you can't point to one thing and say this is 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.280 the source of the problem because it's so much larger 0:19:47.320 --> 0:19:50.320 than that. Yeah, yeah, and uh, I mean there's more 0:19:50.359 --> 0:19:54.920 than the carbon footprint of manufacturing a computer, let alone 0:19:55.240 --> 0:19:57.320 taking it apart. I mean, so many of them end 0:19:57.400 --> 0:20:00.119 up in landfills because people don't recycle them. There's let, 0:20:00.160 --> 0:20:03.240 there's cadmium, There's all kinds of stuff there, uh, and 0:20:03.280 --> 0:20:07.040 it gets into the groundwater. There's the environmental impact of that. Right. 0:20:07.440 --> 0:20:10.600 The more often you replace your computer, uh, and the 0:20:10.640 --> 0:20:13.159 more computers you own that need to be replaced, that 0:20:13.320 --> 0:20:16.439 just adds to that impact. So there's something to be 0:20:16.480 --> 0:20:20.400 said uh for that too. So what we're getting down 0:20:20.400 --> 0:20:22.880 to here is that there's no easy answer of saying 0:20:22.960 --> 0:20:26.640 is paper better than using a computer or vice versa. Um. 0:20:26.720 --> 0:20:29.000 What we can say is there are certain behaviors you 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:33.520 can follow that will help decrease your impact on the environment. 0:20:33.600 --> 0:20:37.960 And if everyone does this that that does make a difference. UM. 0:20:38.040 --> 0:20:40.160 But we can't, you know, we can't just sit there 0:20:40.200 --> 0:20:43.280 and sign off on one versus the other. So using 0:20:43.320 --> 0:20:47.560 things like recycled paper, um, you know, only using paper 0:20:47.560 --> 0:20:50.520 when you need to, that kind of thing, as well 0:20:50.560 --> 0:20:53.000 as UH, if you're using your computer and you're going 0:20:53.000 --> 0:20:56.080 to be away from your computer for a couple of hours, 0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.600 it's okay to go ahead and turn that off. Uh. 0:20:58.640 --> 0:21:00.760 The everyone want to worry is about whether or not 0:21:00.840 --> 0:21:03.480 the spike that you were that you experienced when you 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:06.560 first turn a computer on, if that if that negates 0:21:06.640 --> 0:21:09.080 the effect you would have of turning it off. In 0:21:09.080 --> 0:21:12.600 most cases, it does not. In most cases, especially the 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.920 longer you keep it off, the greater the benefit is. 0:21:17.040 --> 0:21:18.960 So if you are going to bed at night and 0:21:18.960 --> 0:21:20.960 you're not gonna be up and using the computer for 0:21:21.320 --> 0:21:23.879 eight or ten hours, turning it off is probably the 0:21:23.880 --> 0:21:26.800 best choice. And if you can't turn it off, or 0:21:27.119 --> 0:21:30.280 you know you just you can't, you're just not going 0:21:30.359 --> 0:21:34.440 to Using a sleep mode um can also really really 0:21:34.440 --> 0:21:38.200 help out. A sleep mode might be just a couple 0:21:38.240 --> 0:21:41.000 of percentage points of what the active mode would be. 0:21:41.280 --> 0:21:43.920 And don't assume that a screen saver is the same 0:21:43.960 --> 0:21:46.679 thing as a sleep mode, because yeah, it actually can 0:21:46.720 --> 0:21:48.800 generate a lot of it can drain a lot of 0:21:48.840 --> 0:21:52.680 power because I mean, you know you're running you're running 0:21:52.680 --> 0:21:55.119 a program, is what you're doing, and it's displaying something 0:21:55.160 --> 0:21:57.320 a monitor. So if you have a desktop computer and 0:21:57.359 --> 0:22:00.359 a monitor is keeping the monitor a week, right, So 0:22:00.920 --> 0:22:03.240 don't just you know, it'll go to screen saver and 0:22:03.280 --> 0:22:05.840 that'll that'll save money. No, go ahead and put it 0:22:05.880 --> 0:22:07.720 onto sleep mode. I mean it might mean that it 0:22:07.720 --> 0:22:09.359