1 00:00:01,639 --> 00:00:05,600 Speaker 1: Hi. 2 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:08,360 Speaker 2: I am Kate Hudson and my name is Oliver Hudson. 3 00:00:08,560 --> 00:00:11,200 Speaker 1: We wanted to do something that highlighted our. 4 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:19,480 Speaker 2: Relationship and what it's like to be siblings. We are 5 00:00:19,720 --> 00:00:23,360 Speaker 2: a sibling. Railvalry. No, no, sibling. 6 00:00:25,000 --> 00:00:27,000 Speaker 1: You don't do that with your mouth. 7 00:00:30,960 --> 00:00:40,280 Speaker 2: Revelry. That's good, alright. I just finished a meditation because 8 00:00:40,280 --> 00:00:44,320 Speaker 2: that's what I'm doing now, finding wellness in my life 9 00:00:44,440 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 2: for about two weeks, and then I'll go away. That 10 00:00:47,479 --> 00:00:52,240 Speaker 2: seems to be my pattern. You know, hit the health 11 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:56,279 Speaker 2: shit hard for a minute, feel pretty good about yourself. 12 00:00:56,760 --> 00:01:00,000 Speaker 2: Look in the mirror, Oh you look pretty good. Yeah, 13 00:01:00,240 --> 00:01:02,720 Speaker 2: look inside your brain. Oh yeah, look I'm feeling kind 14 00:01:02,720 --> 00:01:08,039 Speaker 2: of good. And then okay, I guess I'm done. Consistency 15 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 2: is the key, and that's what I need to sort 16 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,320 Speaker 2: of focus on. But yeah, I did a I did 17 00:01:14,360 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 2: a meditation. You know what. I listened to Sam Harris, 18 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,240 Speaker 2: who I love. He has He has a podcast. I mean, 19 00:01:19,240 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: he's big time. He has an app called Waking Up 20 00:01:22,880 --> 00:01:27,680 Speaker 2: that I love. Great for meditation, even though I've been 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 2: doing it for a minute or you know, understand kind 22 00:01:31,080 --> 00:01:34,720 Speaker 2: of the parameters of meditation and how to do it, 23 00:01:35,360 --> 00:01:38,560 Speaker 2: he still has this intro to meditation that takes you 24 00:01:38,640 --> 00:01:41,440 Speaker 2: through each day. It's like ten minutes and it's guided 25 00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:45,160 Speaker 2: and even if you've been meditating for a minute, it's 26 00:01:45,240 --> 00:01:51,800 Speaker 2: nice to listen to. It's kind of great. So, yeah, 27 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:54,840 Speaker 2: I did my meditation, tried to stop my mind from wandering, 28 00:01:55,080 --> 00:01:59,760 Speaker 2: tried to stop thinking about the day and all the shit, 29 00:02:01,240 --> 00:02:07,280 Speaker 2: you know, and all the issues. Anyway, I ramble, I rant, 30 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 2: but on a lighter topic, intimacy and sex. We have 31 00:02:13,040 --> 00:02:17,960 Speaker 2: Vivanna Cole's doctor Ravana Coles here is an intimacy expert 32 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:21,760 Speaker 2: and she's in our waiting room right now. But I'm 33 00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:24,959 Speaker 2: excited because you know, I have to say I'm excited 34 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: about everything. It's kind of like the He's like, oh, 35 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 2: I'm excited to talk to this person on person. But 36 00:02:29,480 --> 00:02:35,040 Speaker 2: I will say that I am to be straight up, 37 00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:39,600 Speaker 2: I'd say seventy five percent of the time eighty percent, 38 00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:43,360 Speaker 2: like really excited to talk to the guests because of 39 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:46,280 Speaker 2: what I might be able to learn. And actually I 40 00:02:46,960 --> 00:02:50,200 Speaker 2: was going to bed last night thinking about the podcast 41 00:02:50,840 --> 00:02:54,800 Speaker 2: and how cool it is not just because you know, 42 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:56,359 Speaker 2: you make a little scratch, make a little money, you 43 00:02:56,400 --> 00:02:58,760 Speaker 2: get paid, and it's always fun to talk to people. 44 00:02:59,600 --> 00:03:03,120 Speaker 2: I love of being conversational, but also because of the 45 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:05,959 Speaker 2: shit that I learn, you know, I mean the things 46 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 2: that I learned about myself. I mean, I meditated today 47 00:03:09,320 --> 00:03:11,680 Speaker 2: and wrote a whole list in my calendar of how 48 00:03:11,720 --> 00:03:13,239 Speaker 2: my day is going to be mapped out because of 49 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:18,600 Speaker 2: because of an interview I did yesterday. You know about manifestation, 50 00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:23,640 Speaker 2: about how to sort of create and what are the steps. 51 00:03:23,760 --> 00:03:25,760 Speaker 2: So I'm always excited to talk to some of these 52 00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:27,919 Speaker 2: experts because I know that I'm going to learn something 53 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:30,839 Speaker 2: about myself too. And if you listen to this show, 54 00:03:30,880 --> 00:03:35,720 Speaker 2: you know, I inject my own shit into everything that 55 00:03:35,760 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 2: I talk about. But intimacy is definitely an extremely personal, interesting, 56 00:03:44,360 --> 00:03:46,480 Speaker 2: relatable topic for me, and I'm sure for a lot 57 00:03:46,520 --> 00:03:52,000 Speaker 2: of people, especially for a man. You know, what vulnerability 58 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,240 Speaker 2: looks like, how to be vulnerable, what intimacy looks like, 59 00:03:55,360 --> 00:03:58,200 Speaker 2: all of the different sort of aspects of intimacy, sex, 60 00:03:59,080 --> 00:04:03,320 Speaker 2: all of it. So let's get into it. Let's talk 61 00:04:03,880 --> 00:04:07,760 Speaker 2: Let's talk about sex. Let's talk about sex. Baby, Let's 62 00:04:07,760 --> 00:04:11,040 Speaker 2: talk about O. L I E. That's my name, all right, 63 00:04:11,080 --> 00:04:12,600 Speaker 2: let's let's bring it on there. 64 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 1: She is right. 65 00:04:14,480 --> 00:04:16,200 Speaker 2: Well, I'm so happy you're here. I'm so happy to 66 00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:19,040 Speaker 2: talk to you. You know, I have dealt with my 67 00:04:19,040 --> 00:04:22,640 Speaker 2: own ship as far as intimacy vulnerability goes. I have 68 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:27,720 Speaker 2: learned a lot sort of about myself and how understanding 69 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,760 Speaker 2: what intimacy means to me, what vulnerability means to me, 70 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 2: and how that sort of has affected both good and bad, honestly, 71 00:04:37,320 --> 00:04:40,880 Speaker 2: my relationships, not just with you know, my wife, but 72 00:04:42,040 --> 00:04:44,080 Speaker 2: you know, with the people around me. You know, as 73 00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:45,800 Speaker 2: a man, I feel like it was hard for me 74 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 2: to be vulnerable, to express myself for fear of judgment 75 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 2: or not feeling man enough or whatever all of the 76 00:04:55,960 --> 00:05:00,400 Speaker 2: all that bullshit is. But how did did you get 77 00:05:00,400 --> 00:05:04,520 Speaker 2: into all this? First of all? And let's just get 78 00:05:04,600 --> 00:05:07,880 Speaker 2: rolling because it's gonna get nuts. You don't really know. 79 00:05:07,920 --> 00:05:09,320 Speaker 2: You don't know me yet, but you will. 80 00:05:09,360 --> 00:05:13,120 Speaker 1: And I know a little too much about you. I've 81 00:05:13,120 --> 00:05:14,720 Speaker 1: listened to some of these podcasts. 82 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:15,359 Speaker 2: I think. 83 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,839 Speaker 1: I think there might be a little bit too much information, 84 00:05:20,040 --> 00:05:23,600 Speaker 1: especially wedging off the intro to Teddy's. 85 00:05:23,160 --> 00:05:28,120 Speaker 2: Uh part one. That's right, that's right. 86 00:05:28,720 --> 00:05:32,520 Speaker 1: It's awesome that Teddy's been on here because we've run 87 00:05:32,560 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: into each other in LA and she's you know, she's 88 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:36,440 Speaker 1: a big fan of my book as well, and I'm 89 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:38,440 Speaker 1: just like so thrilled. And then when I started hearing 90 00:05:38,440 --> 00:05:41,000 Speaker 1: what you all were talking about, I was like, oh, okay, yeah, 91 00:05:41,080 --> 00:05:42,200 Speaker 1: y'all know each other differently. 92 00:05:45,960 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: Amazing. 93 00:05:46,720 --> 00:05:50,480 Speaker 1: I've always just been a big fan of love. At first, 94 00:05:50,480 --> 00:05:52,520 Speaker 1: it was just, you know, kind of like the sense 95 00:05:52,560 --> 00:05:57,800 Speaker 1: of romanticism. I come from a lot of really good 96 00:05:57,839 --> 00:06:02,320 Speaker 1: examples of long term, what seemed to be at least healthy, 97 00:06:02,400 --> 00:06:07,200 Speaker 1: happy relationships, and it became pretty clear early on that 98 00:06:07,200 --> 00:06:09,279 Speaker 1: that was something that was a real big goal of mine. 99 00:06:09,400 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: I was just actually talking to my brother this morning, 100 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: and they're celebrating twenty two years married. My parents will 101 00:06:15,120 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: be celebrating fifty years married. I'll be celebrating seventeen years 102 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:23,680 Speaker 1: married this year. So I really have come from a 103 00:06:23,720 --> 00:06:26,040 Speaker 1: lot of people who believe in marriage, and who believe 104 00:06:26,120 --> 00:06:29,320 Speaker 1: in fighting for a really tough marriage and for a 105 00:06:29,360 --> 00:06:33,600 Speaker 1: really great marriage. But it's it really did start to 106 00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:38,240 Speaker 1: come into my life as a career when I knew 107 00:06:38,279 --> 00:06:40,480 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk for a living. I love talking. 108 00:06:40,720 --> 00:06:44,279 Speaker 1: I just do. I love talking about anything. And when 109 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:47,560 Speaker 1: I spoke to one of my earlier advisors, you know, 110 00:06:47,640 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: college advisors, I said, I want to talk for a living. 111 00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:51,800 Speaker 1: She's like, what do you want to talk about? I said, 112 00:06:51,960 --> 00:06:54,279 Speaker 1: I want to talk to people about what I'm like, Well, 113 00:06:54,320 --> 00:06:57,400 Speaker 1: they're always talking to you about their problems. Even early on, 114 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:58,800 Speaker 1: you know, I was one of the few at an 115 00:06:58,800 --> 00:07:01,920 Speaker 1: all girls school who had like a boyfriend, and you know, 116 00:07:02,600 --> 00:07:04,640 Speaker 1: so people were always wanting to get into my business 117 00:07:04,680 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: and I'm like, sure, I'll tell you what's going on. Yeah, 118 00:07:07,880 --> 00:07:09,840 Speaker 1: and so it's it's always been a big part of 119 00:07:09,840 --> 00:07:13,800 Speaker 1: my life. But then I realized, Wow, the impact that 120 00:07:13,880 --> 00:07:16,800 Speaker 1: a healthy marriage or even just a healthy, long term, 121 00:07:16,840 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: committed relationship has on everything around you is so vast. 122 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:26,760 Speaker 1: It really does impact everything. I want to be a 123 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,200 Speaker 1: part of that. I want to be a part of 124 00:07:28,280 --> 00:07:32,520 Speaker 1: helping couples to stay connected in all ways as far 125 00:07:32,560 --> 00:07:36,280 Speaker 1: as intimacy, especially emotional and physical. And if I can 126 00:07:36,320 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: do that, then I feel like I'm in a good mission. 127 00:07:39,360 --> 00:07:42,240 Speaker 1: It's also really rewarding. You know, I'm a certified sex theravist. 128 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,320 Speaker 1: I'm a relationship and sex service so I just I 129 00:07:45,360 --> 00:07:47,440 Speaker 1: find that it's never the same. 130 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 2: Well, that's what's so interesting is everyone has, you know, 131 00:07:54,000 --> 00:07:58,800 Speaker 2: completely different issues. Obviously enough, it's relatable. I mean, there's 132 00:07:58,840 --> 00:08:01,560 Speaker 2: no doubt about it. There are you know, probably a 133 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:06,200 Speaker 2: set of few that people can very much so relate to, 134 00:08:06,440 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: you know, but everyone is so different and what they 135 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: want and what makes them happy and you know, what 136 00:08:13,880 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: gives them pleasure emotionally physically, and how those things match 137 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 2: up within a relationship and if they don't, then how 138 00:08:23,400 --> 00:08:26,800 Speaker 2: to sort of navigate that. I mean, typically with the 139 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,120 Speaker 2: Love Languages, you know, which we had him on actually, 140 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 2: which was It's just it's so awesome. I mean, it's 141 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:37,199 Speaker 2: so fucking real. You know, that shit is so real. 142 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 1: That's the first episode that I heard of y'all's I 143 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,920 Speaker 1: Love the Five Love Languages. I Am just it's almost 144 00:08:44,960 --> 00:08:46,720 Speaker 1: like doctor Gary Chapman's kind of a bit of a 145 00:08:46,800 --> 00:08:49,680 Speaker 1: rock star right in my world. And what he's done 146 00:08:50,360 --> 00:08:52,760 Speaker 1: with a book that came out in nineteen ninety two. 147 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,880 Speaker 1: To me, I was like, this has really revolutionized the 148 00:08:56,880 --> 00:08:59,559 Speaker 1: way that couples can talk and not just couples. Everyone 149 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:04,240 Speaker 1: can talk about love. But I always got the question, 150 00:09:05,040 --> 00:09:08,040 Speaker 1: but what about sex? Yeah? That was who was coming 151 00:09:08,040 --> 00:09:10,280 Speaker 1: to me? But what about sex? Because we know we 152 00:09:10,559 --> 00:09:13,319 Speaker 1: love each other, we know how to express our emotional 153 00:09:13,480 --> 00:09:16,880 Speaker 1: sides and how to relate and connect and the emotional 154 00:09:16,880 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 1: intimacy side, but what about the physical? And that was 155 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 1: the part that I said, you know what, after years 156 00:09:22,240 --> 00:09:24,000 Speaker 1: of having to respond to that, I'm going to write 157 00:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,480 Speaker 1: a book about it, and of the pandemic provided some 158 00:09:27,559 --> 00:09:30,439 Speaker 1: opportunities for really being able to buckle down, and so 159 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:32,040 Speaker 1: I was able to do it then. But it was, 160 00:09:32,520 --> 00:09:34,640 Speaker 1: you know, it's been, it's been amazing. I was so 161 00:09:34,720 --> 00:09:37,040 Speaker 1: thrilled to hear from your team that you were interested 162 00:09:37,080 --> 00:09:39,640 Speaker 1: in it as well, because you know, I'm professionally self 163 00:09:39,640 --> 00:09:43,440 Speaker 1: published and we're not used to. Like I'm always fascinated 164 00:09:43,480 --> 00:09:45,640 Speaker 1: when people and how people find out about the book. 165 00:09:45,720 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: So I'm glad that you've heard about it too. But 166 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: I mean, ideally, in twenty years, the four intimacy styles 167 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:53,360 Speaker 1: will have a little bit of what the five Love 168 00:09:53,400 --> 00:09:55,120 Speaker 1: languages has done. Yeah. 169 00:09:55,280 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 2: No, I mean I love that. I think that's so smart, 170 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,199 Speaker 2: by the way, you know, because I mean I imagine 171 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 2: it's different when you're getting physical, you know. But what 172 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 2: it did for my relationship was just sort of acknowledge 173 00:10:13,080 --> 00:10:16,319 Speaker 2: the way that we like to be loved and then 174 00:10:16,440 --> 00:10:19,600 Speaker 2: having to sort of switch the way that we love 175 00:10:20,640 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 2: because it's not always the same. You know, I'm very 176 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:27,040 Speaker 2: physical touch and my wife is acts of service, right, 177 00:10:28,000 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 2: So you know, if I'm washing the dishes and I'm 178 00:10:32,360 --> 00:10:34,800 Speaker 2: taking out the trash and I am like working around 179 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,600 Speaker 2: the house and I am doing things, it's that's how 180 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,319 Speaker 2: she feels love, you know, And that's how I get late. 181 00:10:41,360 --> 00:10:43,880 Speaker 1: But she feels supported, and that's how she feels like 182 00:10:43,920 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: the two of you are on the same team, which 183 00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:48,760 Speaker 1: I'm constantly like in my private practice, That's what I'm 184 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:51,679 Speaker 1: really always trying to help couple to remember, especially when 185 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,839 Speaker 1: they've been arguing and fighting and disagreeing so much, it's 186 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:56,080 Speaker 1: like you're on the same team. 187 00:10:56,720 --> 00:10:59,280 Speaker 2: M hm, yeah, one hundred percent. And then mine is 188 00:10:59,280 --> 00:11:02,400 Speaker 2: a physical touch much where you know I would I 189 00:11:02,400 --> 00:11:04,840 Speaker 2: would be doing something and I feel her pass by 190 00:11:05,080 --> 00:11:06,800 Speaker 2: behind me, and I'm like, is she going to touch me? 191 00:11:06,880 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 2: Is she going to touch me? Oh? She didn't touch me, 192 00:11:09,440 --> 00:11:13,720 Speaker 2: And and you have to learn how to sort of 193 00:11:13,800 --> 00:11:16,360 Speaker 2: be that for the other person. You know, even though 194 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:19,480 Speaker 2: she doesn't need physical touch because she had enough of 195 00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:23,079 Speaker 2: it in her childhood or however you want to sort 196 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 2: of psychologically place it. You know, she doesn't need it, 197 00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 2: so she doesn't give it you know, for me acts 198 00:11:28,920 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 2: of service like it doesn't do anything for me, Like 199 00:11:30,920 --> 00:11:33,440 Speaker 2: I'm like, oh cool, Yeah, that's awesome. Thanks, But that's 200 00:11:33,480 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 2: not you know the way that I even. 201 00:11:35,600 --> 00:11:36,320 Speaker 1: Hit the spot. 202 00:11:36,679 --> 00:11:36,880 Speaker 2: Yeah. 203 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:41,319 Speaker 1: When it comes to all things physical intimacy, it's even 204 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,480 Speaker 1: more diverse, and it's even actually more difficult to talk 205 00:11:44,559 --> 00:11:48,840 Speaker 1: about because it's not as if you can find out, hey, 206 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:52,800 Speaker 1: this is someone's intimacy style. Now I'm going to do that. 207 00:11:52,920 --> 00:11:57,600 Speaker 1: You can't write intimacy style because you experience something totally different. 208 00:11:57,920 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: They need to be able, and in my professional opinion, 209 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:04,640 Speaker 1: they need to be able to experience all four of 210 00:12:04,679 --> 00:12:08,480 Speaker 1: the intimacy styles in nearly all our every sexual experience 211 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: in order to really be able to feel connected long term. 212 00:12:12,200 --> 00:12:14,760 Speaker 1: You can't be without one or the other, and you 213 00:12:14,840 --> 00:12:17,160 Speaker 1: need to have them all, which is, you know, something 214 00:12:17,240 --> 00:12:18,920 Speaker 1: that differentiates it from the. 215 00:12:18,880 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 2: Five love languages one hundred percent and by the way, 216 00:12:21,720 --> 00:12:25,840 Speaker 2: relating sort of the love languages or that emotional sort 217 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:29,240 Speaker 2: of love and then translating into the physical. I will 218 00:12:29,320 --> 00:12:34,000 Speaker 2: say that when I am providing acts of service, like 219 00:12:34,720 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 2: more times than not, it's going to lead to getting 220 00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:41,680 Speaker 2: laid because I'll be doing the dishes or I'll be 221 00:12:41,720 --> 00:12:46,080 Speaker 2: doing something and she comes up like babe, like what ying? Yeah, 222 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:48,720 Speaker 2: like you know, I mean, it's it's amazing the way 223 00:12:48,760 --> 00:12:50,160 Speaker 2: that that works. 224 00:12:50,200 --> 00:12:51,400 Speaker 1: The chore porn. 225 00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:59,160 Speaker 2: There, But explain, explain the you know, the what do 226 00:12:59,160 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 2: you how do you call the four intimacy intimacy style? Okay, 227 00:13:02,720 --> 00:13:05,679 Speaker 2: so let's let's let's go through all four funk and 228 00:13:05,800 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 2: let everyone know it's up. 229 00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,400 Speaker 1: Yeah. The first of the four intimacy styles is bonding 230 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:12,960 Speaker 1: and these are in no particular order, so just you know, 231 00:13:13,000 --> 00:13:17,200 Speaker 1: there's no like hierarchy here, it's bonding. And this is 232 00:13:17,880 --> 00:13:21,520 Speaker 1: people who are of the bonding style will seek out 233 00:13:21,920 --> 00:13:26,720 Speaker 1: physical intimacy in order to experience more emotional intimacy. They 234 00:13:27,320 --> 00:13:31,679 Speaker 1: need to feel physically connected through sexuality with their partner 235 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:34,200 Speaker 1: in order to feel like they're actually connected. So it's 236 00:13:34,559 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: very very important to them. And duty sex. No, they're 237 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,040 Speaker 1: not gonna they're not okay with that, Like that's a 238 00:13:40,080 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 1: big no. No. Then we have release, and these are 239 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:50,160 Speaker 1: the people who really prioritize that physiological release of tension. 240 00:13:50,320 --> 00:13:53,559 Speaker 1: They want the ecstasy, they want all the pleasure. They're 241 00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,920 Speaker 1: really prioritizing the physiological effects and euphoric feelings that happen 242 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:02,000 Speaker 1: during sex and we have giving. These are the people 243 00:14:02,000 --> 00:14:07,960 Speaker 1: who it's all about the other person. They feel that like, wow, 244 00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 1: all is right in the world if I'm able to 245 00:14:10,120 --> 00:14:12,320 Speaker 1: give you that big oh, all is right in the world. 246 00:14:12,440 --> 00:14:16,160 Speaker 1: If you are associating pleasure with me and then we 247 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:20,600 Speaker 1: have responsive. Responsive is probably the least understood but maybe 248 00:14:21,080 --> 00:14:25,440 Speaker 1: the most common, and that's when someone doesn't have internal, 249 00:14:25,880 --> 00:14:31,040 Speaker 1: necessarily like internal urges for sex. It's always in response 250 00:14:31,080 --> 00:14:34,160 Speaker 1: to their partner saying, hey, you want to get frisky, Hey, 251 00:14:34,240 --> 00:14:38,440 Speaker 1: let's go upstairs whatever. Then they're like, oh, yeah, yea, yeah, okay, 252 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:43,600 Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily experiencing that outside of a relationship 253 00:14:43,720 --> 00:14:47,480 Speaker 1: of course human so they have sexual urges, but they 254 00:14:47,480 --> 00:14:52,360 Speaker 1: don't necessarily seek out partner experiences, and that can be 255 00:14:52,400 --> 00:14:54,560 Speaker 1: one of the most difficult to be understood because for 256 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:56,440 Speaker 1: a lot of them, they're thinking, I just have low 257 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,360 Speaker 1: desire for sex. It's not that they have low desire 258 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:01,960 Speaker 1: for sex. They don't have it on the brain as 259 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:05,480 Speaker 1: often as everybody else. They love it. When they do, 260 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:10,440 Speaker 1: they usually have really intense experiences. It's just in between 261 00:15:10,520 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: those experiences, it's not on the brain. 262 00:15:21,520 --> 00:15:25,040 Speaker 2: Are we one or the other, or like you said, 263 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:27,840 Speaker 2: are we encompass all of those? Yeah? 264 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,240 Speaker 1: So, Actually, I have a quiz in the book and 265 00:15:30,280 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 1: online that you can take for free. It's the for 266 00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,960 Speaker 1: Intimacy Styles quiz dot com and it'll give you the 267 00:15:36,000 --> 00:15:39,160 Speaker 1: percentage of each that you currently are and what you 268 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:41,600 Speaker 1: want to do is try to experience twenty five percent 269 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,640 Speaker 1: of each, so you're rounding out your intimacy style in 270 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,920 Speaker 1: order to be at your best when you're partnered with someone, 271 00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:50,920 Speaker 1: because when two people who are both rounded out come together, 272 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: they tend to feel satisfied, fulfilled for the long term. Yes, 273 00:15:56,360 --> 00:15:58,320 Speaker 1: of course, if you're just hooking up with someone and 274 00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:00,160 Speaker 1: you want to be all released, go for it. If 275 00:16:00,160 --> 00:16:03,160 Speaker 1: you're all about giving in that moment. If you're like, ah, 276 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,360 Speaker 1: it's just this one time, then you can do whatever. 277 00:16:06,400 --> 00:16:09,080 Speaker 1: But if you're looking for long term connection, and the 278 00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:12,479 Speaker 1: truth is, we all need to be prioritizing our physical intimacy. 279 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:15,040 Speaker 1: I believe it is the number one reason that people 280 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:18,280 Speaker 1: end up leaving long term relationships is because it dies 281 00:16:19,000 --> 00:16:22,440 Speaker 1: and so important for people to know that I am. 282 00:16:22,800 --> 00:16:25,040 Speaker 1: In the book, of course, I talk about this at length, 283 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:29,800 Speaker 1: but so many people will leave a relationship and their 284 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:32,320 Speaker 1: partner will never know that it was because of sex, 285 00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:36,320 Speaker 1: because in our society we still think that that's too shallow. 286 00:16:36,760 --> 00:16:40,360 Speaker 1: But what about everything else? If you're not satisfied sexually 287 00:16:40,400 --> 00:16:42,400 Speaker 1: and you don't have any hope that it's going to be, 288 00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:48,040 Speaker 1: you should either you get help but no help after 289 00:16:48,120 --> 00:16:50,640 Speaker 1: that or no hope after that. I would prefer that 290 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,200 Speaker 1: they leave because guess what happens when you're dissatisfied in 291 00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:56,040 Speaker 1: your long term relationship. 292 00:16:55,480 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 2: And you're fine. 293 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,240 Speaker 1: Or be miserable by yourself. 294 00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:04,560 Speaker 2: I'm miserable. Yeah, no, I couldn't agree more. I mean, 295 00:17:04,640 --> 00:17:10,359 Speaker 2: I preach this, you know when we have these conversations 296 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,600 Speaker 2: amongst friends and other people, you know, about relationships. If 297 00:17:13,600 --> 00:17:16,840 Speaker 2: you don't have sex, and if you don't have a 298 00:17:16,880 --> 00:17:19,480 Speaker 2: healthy sex life, then what. 299 00:17:20,000 --> 00:17:20,840 Speaker 1: Do you friends? 300 00:17:21,240 --> 00:17:23,000 Speaker 2: You're just friends, That's what I say. I said, like 301 00:17:23,040 --> 00:17:25,520 Speaker 2: I could just you know, raise my children with my 302 00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,600 Speaker 2: best friend. It would be great. I mean, it'd probably 303 00:17:27,600 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 2: be fun, you know. But if you don't have that connection, 304 00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:34,239 Speaker 2: if you don't have that sexual chemistry, that connection, then 305 00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,000 Speaker 2: a relationship to me is over. 306 00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:39,160 Speaker 1: You mentioned that you do things to kind of help 307 00:17:39,280 --> 00:17:42,399 Speaker 1: create more of an opportunity so, of course as a 308 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:45,320 Speaker 1: sex therapist, I get people who are like, okay, so 309 00:17:45,440 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: you just want people to have sex. I'm like, no, no, no, 310 00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:50,080 Speaker 1: I want people to want to have sex. That's a 311 00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:54,600 Speaker 1: very different thing. Most healthy people can have sex, but 312 00:17:55,119 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: when it's truly satisfying, fulfilling, and is serving the purpose 313 00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:01,919 Speaker 1: of bonding and connect you in this you know, crazy 314 00:18:01,960 --> 00:18:04,240 Speaker 1: life that's always trying to keep us away from each other, 315 00:18:04,840 --> 00:18:07,719 Speaker 1: it serves a purpose that's much greater than just the 316 00:18:07,720 --> 00:18:11,520 Speaker 1: physiological act of having sex. And one of the things 317 00:18:11,520 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: that you've mentioned that is kind of coming up on 318 00:18:14,040 --> 00:18:18,239 Speaker 1: my radar more generally, not just in my practice, is 319 00:18:18,800 --> 00:18:23,119 Speaker 1: this idea of having an underlying current of sensuality in 320 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:26,320 Speaker 1: your relationship that you can tap in and out of 321 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: right And a lot of people feel like they're just 322 00:18:30,160 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 1: flipping a switch. You're either having sex or you're not, 323 00:18:33,280 --> 00:18:36,919 Speaker 1: and they're going cold to hot. And it is something 324 00:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,040 Speaker 1: that everyone will be like, oh, yeah, I've been there 325 00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:41,360 Speaker 1: where it just feels like where is this coming from? 326 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:43,600 Speaker 1: Like we were just changing a diaper, we were just 327 00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,320 Speaker 1: like outside, you know, doing the art, and you're like, 328 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: are you corny right now? And so what I'm trying 329 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,320 Speaker 1: to help people to understand now is that the term 330 00:18:53,359 --> 00:18:56,520 Speaker 1: that I use for that is pillow talk. You need 331 00:18:56,520 --> 00:19:00,880 Speaker 1: to have pillow talk in your relationship outside of the bedroom, 332 00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,480 Speaker 1: outside of an actual sexual experience. It's so important for 333 00:19:05,560 --> 00:19:08,679 Speaker 1: you to show that you're interested in your partner, that 334 00:19:08,680 --> 00:19:11,040 Speaker 1: you're interested in sex with your partner, and of course 335 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:15,080 Speaker 1: vice versa, in order to make sense of having sex, 336 00:19:16,200 --> 00:19:18,680 Speaker 1: make sense of having sex in your relationship by doing 337 00:19:18,760 --> 00:19:23,439 Speaker 1: the pillow talk. And fortunately I'm I've got my act together. 338 00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:26,520 Speaker 1: It's been a long road, but I'm going to be 339 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:31,080 Speaker 1: sharing a free masterclass online for everyone who's interested in 340 00:19:31,200 --> 00:19:34,639 Speaker 1: making sure that they're living a relationship where it makes 341 00:19:34,680 --> 00:19:37,199 Speaker 1: sense that sex happens. It's going to be up a 342 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: part of my website. So if you go to pillow 343 00:19:39,760 --> 00:19:44,680 Speaker 1: talkmasterclass dot com to register June tenth at twelve thirty Central, 344 00:19:45,040 --> 00:19:47,240 Speaker 1: that's going to be an opportunity. It's the only time 345 00:19:47,240 --> 00:19:49,000 Speaker 1: that I'll be offering any of this for frees. Don't 346 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,359 Speaker 1: get there, but yeah, it really is for anyone who's 347 00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,600 Speaker 1: interested in making sure that they know how to keep 348 00:19:54,600 --> 00:19:56,879 Speaker 1: that spark alive. I'm sure, Oliver, you've heard lots of 349 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,199 Speaker 1: people who are like, why do we keep this spark? 350 00:19:59,240 --> 00:20:00,960 Speaker 1: How do we keep this? I mean I get that 351 00:20:01,040 --> 00:20:04,000 Speaker 1: question at least like ten times a month, and this 352 00:20:04,119 --> 00:20:07,320 Speaker 1: is how you do it, and I got it from 353 00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,040 Speaker 1: living it. My husband and I like, we do a 354 00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,639 Speaker 1: lot of pillow talk, a lot of pillow talk, and 355 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,359 Speaker 1: I feel like it has made the biggest difference in 356 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: our connection outside of the bedroom, because because in the 357 00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:20,119 Speaker 1: bedroom there's all sorts of fun things that can be 358 00:20:20,160 --> 00:20:23,960 Speaker 1: going on, and it's very focused on sex. But outside 359 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:26,120 Speaker 1: of that, how do we know that we want each 360 00:20:26,160 --> 00:20:30,320 Speaker 1: other without like necessarily always having sex. 361 00:20:31,240 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 2: No, No, I mean I think it's it's awesome. And 362 00:20:34,359 --> 00:20:40,919 Speaker 2: by the way, you know, pillow talk is personal, meaning 363 00:20:42,280 --> 00:20:46,640 Speaker 2: it's different for everybody. You know. It can be gnarly 364 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:50,840 Speaker 2: and dirty and nasty. It can be you know, sensual, 365 00:20:51,200 --> 00:20:56,159 Speaker 2: It can be sort of again, just telling someone how 366 00:20:56,240 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 2: much you love them and appreciate them, or showing them, 367 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,040 Speaker 2: showing them I'm saying, I'm just I'm for whatever reason, 368 00:21:03,080 --> 00:21:08,520 Speaker 2: picturing like texting, but yes, absolutely, and sometimes words are 369 00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:14,359 Speaker 2: easier for people typing and using sort of you know, 370 00:21:14,720 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 2: a computer or a phone than it is to sort 371 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:18,560 Speaker 2: of say them out loud. To someone's face. And I 372 00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,000 Speaker 2: only know that because that is me. 373 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 1: You know. 374 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:25,720 Speaker 2: I've worked on that part of being more vulnerable and 375 00:21:26,480 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 2: having the ability without feeling shy or that I'm going 376 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:38,000 Speaker 2: to be judged or somehow left psychologically, because it all 377 00:21:38,520 --> 00:21:42,359 Speaker 2: your psychology all plays into your sexuality too, I believe 378 00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:45,240 Speaker 2: you know. I mean, from how you grew up to 379 00:21:45,560 --> 00:21:47,800 Speaker 2: your relationship with women or men. 380 00:21:48,520 --> 00:21:51,000 Speaker 1: The messages that you got about sex or did not 381 00:21:51,040 --> 00:21:52,560 Speaker 1: get any messages. 382 00:21:52,160 --> 00:21:57,159 Speaker 2: About one hundred percent. Yeah, yeah, So you know, for me, 383 00:21:57,240 --> 00:21:59,960 Speaker 2: it's always been much easier to write than it is 384 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,680 Speaker 2: to sort of say in person. And I've been sort 385 00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:06,520 Speaker 2: of working on that and I couldn't agree more. 386 00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,639 Speaker 1: Pillar talk. We have to work on getting you to 387 00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,600 Speaker 1: a better place than that. 388 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:13,840 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, no, for sure. I mean, so 389 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 2: I did this. I'll comes up every fucking episode on 390 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 2: my podcast, but I did this program called the Hoffmann Institute, 391 00:22:21,359 --> 00:22:25,880 Speaker 2: and it was amazing, and without getting into the whole 392 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,280 Speaker 2: thing because everyone's heard it a million times, it's just 393 00:22:28,320 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 2: dealing with childhood patterns, you know, and how they've affected 394 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,919 Speaker 2: your life. I came out of this week long course 395 00:22:35,240 --> 00:22:41,880 Speaker 2: just so open, so comfortable with my vulnerability. I'm afraid 396 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:46,240 Speaker 2: to express how I feel to my wife to everyone 397 00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:51,160 Speaker 2: around me, you know, and as men, there's this sort 398 00:22:51,160 --> 00:22:54,000 Speaker 2: of idea, as you said, that we need to have 399 00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:57,240 Speaker 2: sex to feel connected, and that women need to feel 400 00:22:57,280 --> 00:23:01,119 Speaker 2: connected to have sex. That is the stereotype, okay, and 401 00:23:01,200 --> 00:23:04,480 Speaker 2: I live that stereotype. I did. If we went a 402 00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:08,560 Speaker 2: week or two without having sex, there's some shit happens 403 00:23:08,560 --> 00:23:10,119 Speaker 2: where you all of a sudden have resentment that you 404 00:23:10,119 --> 00:23:13,480 Speaker 2: don't understand, and it gets kind of contentious a little. 405 00:23:14,320 --> 00:23:16,760 Speaker 2: The minute that I was able to be vulnerable, truly 406 00:23:16,880 --> 00:23:21,760 Speaker 2: vulnerable as a man, especially, our sex life blossomed even 407 00:23:21,760 --> 00:23:23,879 Speaker 2: more so. Our sex life has always been good, but 408 00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:30,119 Speaker 2: it deepened to where it was unbelievable. I mean, the 409 00:23:30,160 --> 00:23:33,080 Speaker 2: physical was always there, but once I was able to 410 00:23:33,119 --> 00:23:36,879 Speaker 2: sort of really become a vulnerable person to her and 411 00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:39,720 Speaker 2: express myself to her and how I felt about her, 412 00:23:40,240 --> 00:23:43,640 Speaker 2: it allowed her to let go as well, and all 413 00:23:43,680 --> 00:23:45,840 Speaker 2: of a sudden, shit just went crazy. And I'm not 414 00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:50,200 Speaker 2: talking about you know, like soft core sort of nice music, 415 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,159 Speaker 2: like it can get just as gnarly and dirty and 416 00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:57,560 Speaker 2: graphic as you want, and that vulnerability allows that to 417 00:23:57,600 --> 00:23:59,320 Speaker 2: be as comfortable as it's ever been. 418 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,880 Speaker 1: People don't have the language for that, and they don't 419 00:24:02,920 --> 00:24:06,280 Speaker 1: necessarily have the means or time or even know how 420 00:24:06,320 --> 00:24:08,840 Speaker 1: to go to an institute like that. But that's what 421 00:24:08,880 --> 00:24:11,199 Speaker 1: I've been talking about in the four intimacy styles, is 422 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:15,480 Speaker 1: that people your partner needs to and deserves to understand 423 00:24:15,560 --> 00:24:19,600 Speaker 1: your why why is sex important to you? It's not 424 00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,520 Speaker 1: just well, you know, I always ask people, of course, 425 00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,320 Speaker 1: in my office, I'm like, so, why is sex important 426 00:24:25,320 --> 00:24:26,760 Speaker 1: to you? Why are you here? Why do you want 427 00:24:26,760 --> 00:24:29,480 Speaker 1: to work on it? And inevitably they say, well, because 428 00:24:29,520 --> 00:24:32,400 Speaker 1: we're supposed to, because we're together, And I'm like, it's 429 00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:35,320 Speaker 1: what makes you stand out as more than just friends. 430 00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:39,359 Speaker 1: You can do really anything else but sex. If you're 431 00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,719 Speaker 1: a monogamous relationship with anyone else, other people, if your 432 00:24:42,720 --> 00:24:44,960 Speaker 1: doctors can see you naked, you can say I love 433 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,000 Speaker 1: you to the kids. You can kiss your dogs and 434 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: the head, you know, get a massage from a stranger. Like, 435 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,000 Speaker 1: there's so many things that you can do, but this 436 00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:55,399 Speaker 1: is that thing that if you're of course in a 437 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:59,360 Speaker 1: monogamous relationship, it's just the two of you, it's what 438 00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:02,320 Speaker 1: it really It does make it sacred. You can be 439 00:25:02,640 --> 00:25:06,440 Speaker 1: a therapist with your best friend. But this is that thing. 440 00:25:07,040 --> 00:25:08,960 Speaker 1: But there's so much more to it than that. And 441 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 1: that's why I think it's so important for people to 442 00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:14,880 Speaker 1: really understand how the four intimacy styles can play out 443 00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:17,960 Speaker 1: and really help enhance all of it. All the physical 444 00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:18,560 Speaker 1: for sure. 445 00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:22,840 Speaker 2: What if you love? What if you're in love. You're 446 00:25:22,840 --> 00:25:25,400 Speaker 2: in love with someone and you've been together for twenty 447 00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:28,480 Speaker 2: years and you guys were hot as shit back in 448 00:25:28,520 --> 00:25:33,439 Speaker 2: the day, And what happens when the attraction goes away? 449 00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:34,359 Speaker 1: Yeah? 450 00:25:34,400 --> 00:25:37,160 Speaker 2: You know, because that's life. You know that shit happens 451 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 2: and we change and what happens when it's all But 452 00:25:40,920 --> 00:25:43,880 Speaker 2: I'm just not attracted to you anymore. And I love 453 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,520 Speaker 2: you and I love everything you are, but I just 454 00:25:45,920 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 2: don't feel like having sex with you because I'm not attracted. 455 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:51,360 Speaker 2: Can you get past something like that? 456 00:25:51,840 --> 00:25:54,560 Speaker 1: Yeah? This is my whole world. This is my career, 457 00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:58,240 Speaker 1: is helping people to transition from that hot and heavy 458 00:25:58,320 --> 00:26:02,800 Speaker 1: new relationship energy passionate your brain is like on drugs, 459 00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: feeling into something that's more long term and lasting. So 460 00:26:06,359 --> 00:26:11,159 Speaker 1: many people don't even know that the passion will neurologically 461 00:26:11,560 --> 00:26:15,680 Speaker 1: kind of die out in you know, No, it will 462 00:26:16,040 --> 00:26:18,680 Speaker 1: not last longer than two years, I mean for sure, 463 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: and for most people, especially nowadays, it's more like ten 464 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:25,080 Speaker 1: months maybe if you're lucky. So a lot of people 465 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:27,199 Speaker 1: get kind of slapped in the face by it, and 466 00:26:27,240 --> 00:26:32,719 Speaker 1: inevitably they'll either become serial relationship people or they'll just 467 00:26:32,760 --> 00:26:35,800 Speaker 1: think like, okay, so this is it, Like what how 468 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,560 Speaker 1: are people saying different? So making them aware that that's 469 00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,080 Speaker 1: even a thing that they need to be watching out for. 470 00:26:42,760 --> 00:26:45,600 Speaker 1: But that's where that pillowtop comes in the way that 471 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,399 Speaker 1: you share that your interest in sex and interest in 472 00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:52,639 Speaker 1: sex with their partner will keep you from going into 473 00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:56,440 Speaker 1: that like bed death place, and it will also help 474 00:26:56,480 --> 00:26:59,120 Speaker 1: you to get to a place where you say I'm 475 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: not I'm not like as interested in the other shiny 476 00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:05,000 Speaker 1: objects around me. My partner and I like we got 477 00:27:05,040 --> 00:27:05,800 Speaker 1: something going on. 478 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:06,400 Speaker 2: Now. 479 00:27:06,440 --> 00:27:08,040 Speaker 1: That's the thing. A lot of people are like, well, 480 00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:11,760 Speaker 1: I'm not into PDA. Well I'm not talking about you know, 481 00:27:12,320 --> 00:27:16,280 Speaker 1: mugging down, Like I don't think say that anymore. But whatever, 482 00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:22,960 Speaker 1: It's not about becoming graphic or saying raunchy jokes in 483 00:27:22,960 --> 00:27:26,240 Speaker 1: front of it. It's like it should be a language 484 00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:27,919 Speaker 1: between the two of you and that's what I'm going 485 00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:30,920 Speaker 1: to teach people, is like how this looks. And I 486 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: do think that there are better ways to pillow talk 487 00:27:34,320 --> 00:27:39,480 Speaker 1: than others. And it's not just well, you know, say 488 00:27:39,480 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: this or yeah. 489 00:27:41,080 --> 00:27:44,440 Speaker 2: There's no universal way. I mean everyone universal way. 490 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:47,400 Speaker 1: But there are better ways that will that will actually 491 00:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: help if you do them, versus being somebody who maybe 492 00:27:51,640 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: doesn't talk or do anything and then just thinking, well, 493 00:27:54,840 --> 00:27:57,040 Speaker 1: my partner knows because I have sex with Like, we're 494 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,120 Speaker 1: still having sex once a week or once a month 495 00:27:59,200 --> 00:28:03,600 Speaker 1: or whenever. So we're fine, No, you're not. That's not enough. 496 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:04,600 Speaker 1: Sex isn't enough. 497 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:16,639 Speaker 2: So our sex life has always been really good. But 498 00:28:17,359 --> 00:28:22,560 Speaker 2: sometimes it's hard to communicate verbally right, And I know 499 00:28:22,640 --> 00:28:26,000 Speaker 2: that that's the number one way to sort of communicate, 500 00:28:26,119 --> 00:28:28,880 Speaker 2: right is like, oh, pillow talk, it's talk, it's using 501 00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:33,280 Speaker 2: your mouth. Right. Some people aren't as comfortable saying the 502 00:28:33,359 --> 00:28:37,359 Speaker 2: things that they might feel because it feels embarrassing to them, 503 00:28:37,880 --> 00:28:42,760 Speaker 2: you know, So how do you get past something like that, 504 00:28:43,760 --> 00:28:46,320 Speaker 2: you know, where it's like, oh, I want to say that, 505 00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:50,000 Speaker 2: but I'm just like, shit out, that's embarrassing. How's that 506 00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:51,000 Speaker 2: going to come out of my mouth? 507 00:28:51,560 --> 00:28:53,760 Speaker 1: Well? I think what ends up happening to a lot 508 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:56,160 Speaker 1: of people is that they say it and they joke 509 00:28:56,960 --> 00:29:00,240 Speaker 1: and that doesn't feel very seductive. And then for other people, 510 00:29:00,320 --> 00:29:02,120 Speaker 1: they say it as a joke and they just like 511 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:05,560 Speaker 1: they make it a running joke. But even just the joke, 512 00:29:05,840 --> 00:29:09,960 Speaker 1: even just that haha moment, it's still something that means something. 513 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:12,600 Speaker 1: It does land it is pilotop because I'm not talking 514 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:16,720 Speaker 1: about like seduction for ford play. I think about every 515 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:19,000 Speaker 1: day life, you know, whether it's a pot on the 516 00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:23,160 Speaker 1: backside or not, you know, or laughing at a funny 517 00:29:23,320 --> 00:29:27,080 Speaker 1: meme about sex or something like. It's all of that 518 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,640 Speaker 1: that a lot of people who aren't necessarily and very 519 00:29:30,800 --> 00:29:34,000 Speaker 1: good don't have very good sex lives. They shun it, 520 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:37,840 Speaker 1: They keep it out because they're worried that it's either 521 00:29:38,840 --> 00:29:42,520 Speaker 1: going to make them feel uncomfortable or make them seem like, well, 522 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:45,360 Speaker 1: that's not my style, Like I don't do that, or 523 00:29:45,560 --> 00:29:47,600 Speaker 1: I don't want people to know about my sex life 524 00:29:47,640 --> 00:29:50,720 Speaker 1: or think about me, or you know, like it's almost 525 00:29:50,760 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: like they're giving away too much. They're showing too much 526 00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:57,080 Speaker 1: of the private in public. But I'm talking about like 527 00:29:57,080 --> 00:29:59,320 Speaker 1: they won't even do that when it's just them on 528 00:29:59,360 --> 00:30:03,120 Speaker 1: a date night because they're thinking, well, that's not that's 529 00:30:03,160 --> 00:30:06,120 Speaker 1: not prim and proper, or or I don't want to 530 00:30:06,120 --> 00:30:09,000 Speaker 1: give them the wrong idea, or you know, like, oh, 531 00:30:09,160 --> 00:30:11,680 Speaker 1: I know every single time I kiss my husband, he's 532 00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: always trying to like grab my button, my boobs, and 533 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: you know, like people think about that and then they say, well, 534 00:30:15,920 --> 00:30:17,720 Speaker 1: guess what, I don't want to kiss my husband anymore. 535 00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:18,400 Speaker 2: Yeah. 536 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:21,600 Speaker 1: And that's another thing is you know, this is all 537 00:30:21,720 --> 00:30:25,600 Speaker 1: very it's very real, like and the problems that come 538 00:30:25,640 --> 00:30:28,720 Speaker 1: about it are very real. So it's important for people 539 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,000 Speaker 1: to understand what's going on and kind of assess where 540 00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:34,960 Speaker 1: is the issue here? Is it that every single time 541 00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:37,280 Speaker 1: I kiss my husband he always wants more? Is it 542 00:30:37,360 --> 00:30:40,560 Speaker 1: every single time that I, you know, pat my my 543 00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:42,880 Speaker 1: wife on the butt, she's like, gosh, get away from me, 544 00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:45,640 Speaker 1: you know, and it's like rejection, Like what is it? 545 00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,800 Speaker 1: Or is it the let me send you a sweet 546 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:52,640 Speaker 1: text and you send me, you know, eggplant squirt? 547 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:53,160 Speaker 2: You know, like. 548 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:58,160 Speaker 1: Right there, and everybody's as different. Everybody's told it is different, 549 00:30:58,440 --> 00:31:00,360 Speaker 1: but it needs to be happening. It's just needs to 550 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:01,320 Speaker 1: be happening in the right way. 551 00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:04,280 Speaker 2: What do you how what have you found in sort 552 00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:09,280 Speaker 2: of your practice is the most sort of common a 553 00:31:09,440 --> 00:31:12,080 Speaker 2: common issue that you get, you know, it's like, yeah, 554 00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:13,680 Speaker 2: that's that's number. 555 00:31:13,400 --> 00:31:21,080 Speaker 1: One, I'll say. Generally in a heteronormative relationship, it's usually 556 00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,920 Speaker 1: that the men are able to tap into that sexual 557 00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: undercurrent so much faster and easier than women. A lot 558 00:31:29,040 --> 00:31:31,960 Speaker 1: of the women feel like they're going from cold to hot. 559 00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: They feel like it's something to check off their list. 560 00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:39,000 Speaker 1: They don't even really prioritize their own desires. They're not 561 00:31:39,080 --> 00:31:42,480 Speaker 1: like thinking about sex. Men are so good about letting 562 00:31:42,480 --> 00:31:45,000 Speaker 1: sexual thoughts in and kind of simmer and then go away. 563 00:31:45,560 --> 00:31:49,240 Speaker 1: Women are more like, I'm, you know, at the park 564 00:31:49,280 --> 00:31:52,200 Speaker 1: with my kids, I can't have a sexual thought or ooh, 565 00:31:52,280 --> 00:31:54,240 Speaker 1: I'm reading a sexual novel. Well this needs to be 566 00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:56,960 Speaker 1: alone in bed or in the tub. There's just kind 567 00:31:56,960 --> 00:31:59,360 Speaker 1: of this sense of sex belongs here, it does not 568 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:02,280 Speaker 1: belong here. And men are really good about just like 569 00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:05,280 Speaker 1: allowing those things to happen. And I'm convinced that that's 570 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:08,120 Speaker 1: why they seem to have a higher level of desire 571 00:32:08,160 --> 00:32:10,600 Speaker 1: for sex, is because it's on their brains. But that's 572 00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:13,040 Speaker 1: the number one thing is that I usually have a 573 00:32:13,080 --> 00:32:15,760 Speaker 1: desire discrepancy in a couple, and they're trying to figure out, like, 574 00:32:15,840 --> 00:32:18,400 Speaker 1: how do we get to a more similar place. It 575 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: doesn't have to be right here, but where it's more functional. 576 00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,200 Speaker 2: And what about do you have you studied? You get 577 00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 2: into sort of just the primal nature of sex, and 578 00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,320 Speaker 2: you know, just the pro creating aspect of it, the 579 00:32:33,480 --> 00:32:40,160 Speaker 2: unconscious brain essentially, and how we operate sexually aside from 580 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:44,640 Speaker 2: any social sort of pressures or things that have been 581 00:32:44,760 --> 00:32:48,520 Speaker 2: put upon us from societal a societal standpoint, I. 582 00:32:48,440 --> 00:32:53,560 Speaker 1: Think it's very unusual for people to feel similarly in 583 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,560 Speaker 1: that regard, and so it can become more of a 584 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:00,120 Speaker 1: problem than anything. I think the minute we start talking 585 00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:05,000 Speaker 1: about like unconscious urges or desires or things that are 586 00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:08,920 Speaker 1: very primal, we kind of get into this weird consent 587 00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:15,680 Speaker 1: non consent, you know, duty, obligation, expectation, and that can 588 00:33:15,720 --> 00:33:18,640 Speaker 1: be very unsexy. So for a lot of people, it 589 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,640 Speaker 1: really is just figuring out, okay, what works for the 590 00:33:20,640 --> 00:33:24,680 Speaker 1: two of you. Who are you sexually? Who are you sexually? 591 00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 1: Let's figure out if we can bring those two people 592 00:33:26,560 --> 00:33:31,840 Speaker 1: together in a satisfying, conscious, like very consensual way. 593 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 2: Are we a monogamous species. 594 00:33:36,120 --> 00:33:39,200 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, I don't think so. 595 00:33:39,920 --> 00:33:40,920 Speaker 2: It has to be enough. 596 00:33:41,680 --> 00:33:45,200 Speaker 1: I mean, I don't think so, because I see a 597 00:33:45,640 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 1: lot of the people that come in as well, like 598 00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:50,560 Speaker 1: probably my a third of my clients, if not more, 599 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,880 Speaker 1: are coming in for a fair recovery. It's just so 600 00:33:54,400 --> 00:33:57,440 Speaker 1: common and I and that's why I'm always like, Okay, well, 601 00:33:57,760 --> 00:33:59,920 Speaker 1: let's work on the pillowtop, let's work on the four intimacies, 602 00:34:00,200 --> 00:34:02,120 Speaker 1: let's work on communication, let's work on all of these 603 00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:05,400 Speaker 1: things to see if we can avoid that, because it's 604 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 1: I don't think it's usual or typical or normal to 605 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: betray someone in lie to them that like, that's not 606 00:34:13,040 --> 00:34:16,240 Speaker 1: ever going to be okay. But those feelings of wanting 607 00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:19,480 Speaker 1: something different, I think are very human. And that's why 608 00:34:19,560 --> 00:34:22,640 Speaker 1: I think it's so important too, if you're going into 609 00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:26,120 Speaker 1: something that is monogamous, that you do everything within your 610 00:34:26,160 --> 00:34:28,400 Speaker 1: power to learn how to be monogamous, because it's not 611 00:34:28,440 --> 00:34:29,040 Speaker 1: going to be easy. 612 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:34,239 Speaker 2: It's just not I know, do you think that we 613 00:34:34,360 --> 00:34:37,239 Speaker 2: need to be more accepting of the fact that we 614 00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,920 Speaker 2: are maybe not a monogamous species, and you know, to 615 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:45,719 Speaker 2: be a little more gentle and forgiving. I'm saying if 616 00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:51,160 Speaker 2: it moves beyond you know, just that sexual desire and 617 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:54,640 Speaker 2: into a problem, you know what I mean, where it's 618 00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:56,759 Speaker 2: I'm no longer in love with you, I want to 619 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,440 Speaker 2: I just I can't want to live you with anymore. 620 00:35:00,080 --> 00:35:03,200 Speaker 2: Or if it's just look this happened, I made a mistake. 621 00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,360 Speaker 2: I'm still in love with you. Let's work through it. 622 00:35:05,840 --> 00:35:08,400 Speaker 2: Because I feel like a lot of the times today 623 00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 2: with infidelity and other relationship issues, people are so quick 624 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:16,879 Speaker 2: to just throw it all away rather than look at 625 00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,440 Speaker 2: the whole relationship as a whole and look at the 626 00:35:20,520 --> 00:35:24,560 Speaker 2: human as a whole and say, oh, well we are good. 627 00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 2: This is good, he's amazing, she's amazing. This thing happened. 628 00:35:29,800 --> 00:35:32,640 Speaker 2: Let's get to the root of why it happened. Yes, 629 00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:34,759 Speaker 2: instead of just saying, oh, you know what, fuck you, 630 00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:36,319 Speaker 2: I'm gone. You know. 631 00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 1: Well, okay, so there's a lot to unpack with that, 632 00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:40,920 Speaker 1: but I'll tell you because this is something that I 633 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:43,680 Speaker 1: work with every day. First of all, seventy percent of 634 00:35:43,680 --> 00:35:47,760 Speaker 1: couples who go through in fidelity do end up staying together. Now, 635 00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:51,840 Speaker 1: of the couples that stay together, I would say the 636 00:35:51,880 --> 00:35:54,799 Speaker 1: people who have gone to therapy and couples therapy to 637 00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 1: work through that a fair recovery, are probably going to 638 00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:00,399 Speaker 1: stay together forever. I know that in my practice people 639 00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,440 Speaker 1: who come to see me. I would say ninety percent 640 00:36:02,480 --> 00:36:05,480 Speaker 1: of the couples who have lived through and recovered from 641 00:36:05,520 --> 00:36:08,799 Speaker 1: an affair tend to do really well for the long 642 00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 1: term because now it's like everything's laid out. It's almost 643 00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: like you're having exploratory surgery, right Like you get to 644 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,680 Speaker 1: see what's going on and say, Okay, that's a problem, 645 00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:25,680 Speaker 1: that's a problem. That's great. But a lot of people 646 00:36:25,760 --> 00:36:28,239 Speaker 1: don't do that until a bomb goes off in their relationship, 647 00:36:28,520 --> 00:36:31,879 Speaker 1: like a partner betrayal, and that's not fair. I feel 648 00:36:31,880 --> 00:36:34,240 Speaker 1: like for so many people, they need to be conscious 649 00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:36,800 Speaker 1: of the fact that I never tell people you should 650 00:36:36,840 --> 00:36:40,440 Speaker 1: trust your partner one hundred percent. That makes no sense 651 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:43,560 Speaker 1: in the world that we live in now. That doesn't 652 00:36:43,560 --> 00:36:45,000 Speaker 1: mean you need to be treating them as if you 653 00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,040 Speaker 1: only trust them ten percent, but you need to be 654 00:36:48,160 --> 00:36:51,280 Speaker 1: conscious of the fact that you're a human, they're a human. 655 00:36:51,920 --> 00:36:56,120 Speaker 1: And we don't live in small little communities anymore, and 656 00:36:56,160 --> 00:37:00,799 Speaker 1: we're bombarded by things that are literally created to take 657 00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,440 Speaker 1: our attention away from our partners. That's what so to 658 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:08,680 Speaker 1: be able to say, maybe we should explore consensual non 659 00:37:08,719 --> 00:37:12,600 Speaker 1: monogamy and open our relationship, but we need to do 660 00:37:12,680 --> 00:37:14,719 Speaker 1: it with help, which is a lot of people come 661 00:37:14,719 --> 00:37:16,360 Speaker 1: to me for that too, because they don't even know 662 00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:18,239 Speaker 1: what they don't know, they don't even know how to 663 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:21,040 Speaker 1: be and it's so dangerous to just say, let's open 664 00:37:21,120 --> 00:37:22,080 Speaker 1: up our relationship. 665 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,919 Speaker 2: Oh gosh. Yeah, I mean, I mean. 666 00:37:25,840 --> 00:37:28,719 Speaker 1: There's a lot to that, and I feel like we 667 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:32,440 Speaker 1: could talk about that for days because it's such a 668 00:37:32,480 --> 00:37:34,439 Speaker 1: hot topic. And I think for a lot of people, 669 00:37:34,480 --> 00:37:36,960 Speaker 1: it's a hot topic because they want to know how 670 00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:39,520 Speaker 1: to prevent that. You know, a fair prevention is something 671 00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:41,640 Speaker 1: that I'm always talking about online and I feel like 672 00:37:41,719 --> 00:37:44,239 Speaker 1: with my clients, Okay, so now that you've been through this, 673 00:37:44,360 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: how can we prevent this from happening again. Well, A 674 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,440 Speaker 1: big part of that is feeling emotionally and physically connected. 675 00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:54,600 Speaker 2: Mm hmmmm. Oh yeah. And what about sexual addiction? Do 676 00:37:54,640 --> 00:37:57,399 Speaker 2: you deal with that a lot? I mean, how much 677 00:37:57,400 --> 00:38:00,040 Speaker 2: are you seeing of sexual. 678 00:38:01,440 --> 00:38:03,960 Speaker 1: It's a very small part of the people who come 679 00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:08,160 Speaker 1: in who are experiencing what they would sit they would 680 00:38:08,160 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: call sexual addiction. Oftentimes, I'll have people who have compulsive 681 00:38:12,280 --> 00:38:14,840 Speaker 1: sexual behaviors that we need to kind of go through. 682 00:38:15,560 --> 00:38:19,880 Speaker 1: It's very difficult for me to diagnose anybody with sex addiction, 683 00:38:20,320 --> 00:38:24,880 Speaker 1: just because, of course it's so different from person to person, 684 00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:28,359 Speaker 1: from relationship to relationship. And I also think that that 685 00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:34,680 Speaker 1: diagnosis and that label can exacerbate problems. It doesn't often 686 00:38:34,840 --> 00:38:37,960 Speaker 1: help as much some people it does, but you know, 687 00:38:38,239 --> 00:38:41,920 Speaker 1: just like with anything else, labeling somebody, it carries a 688 00:38:41,920 --> 00:38:44,239 Speaker 1: lot of weight. So if they come in with that 689 00:38:44,360 --> 00:38:47,680 Speaker 1: and say this is what I know to be true, great, 690 00:38:48,000 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: let's use that speak. But otherwise it's more about let's 691 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:56,040 Speaker 1: tease out the different behaviors that you find very dysfunctional 692 00:38:56,560 --> 00:39:00,560 Speaker 1: or very undesirable or really chaotic in your life, and 693 00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:03,720 Speaker 1: let's take those and put them off to the side 694 00:39:03,880 --> 00:39:08,799 Speaker 1: and study them. Because as a systemic therapist, I don't 695 00:39:08,840 --> 00:39:11,680 Speaker 1: believe that problems lie within us. I think they lie 696 00:39:11,719 --> 00:39:14,640 Speaker 1: between us and the issue. And if you can really 697 00:39:14,680 --> 00:39:18,440 Speaker 1: work on that, just like with any other relationship, and 698 00:39:18,560 --> 00:39:21,520 Speaker 1: see it as a relationship, it's either healthy or unhealthy 699 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:25,560 Speaker 1: and there's work there. But if it's within you, then 700 00:39:26,239 --> 00:39:28,120 Speaker 1: that's when you get self loathing, that's when you get 701 00:39:28,120 --> 00:39:30,360 Speaker 1: low self esteem. That's when you feel like you're unworthy 702 00:39:30,360 --> 00:39:31,319 Speaker 1: of love and I just. 703 00:39:31,280 --> 00:39:36,480 Speaker 2: Don't believe mm hmm, yeah, no, I know, yeah, No, 704 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:40,319 Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's it's interesting because it you know, 705 00:39:40,520 --> 00:39:42,960 Speaker 2: you go through this idea of like, well, what is it? 706 00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:46,960 Speaker 2: What is sex addiction exactly? And it feels different than 707 00:39:47,000 --> 00:39:50,880 Speaker 2: I guess alcoholism or different kinds of addiction. There's seems 708 00:39:50,920 --> 00:39:52,800 Speaker 2: to be levels of it, which you know, I think 709 00:39:53,360 --> 00:39:56,120 Speaker 2: there are other addictions as well. There's levels of it. 710 00:39:56,120 --> 00:39:58,920 Speaker 1: Because you can abstain from alcohol that you can't abstain 711 00:39:58,960 --> 00:40:00,279 Speaker 1: from food or sex. 712 00:40:00,440 --> 00:40:03,200 Speaker 2: Right right, No, I know if it starts to sort 713 00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:07,200 Speaker 2: of become detrimental to your life, you know, one way 714 00:40:07,280 --> 00:40:07,720 Speaker 2: or another. 715 00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:11,880 Speaker 1: Well, and for your viewers, a really great kind of 716 00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:17,080 Speaker 1: long held authority in the field is doctor Patrick Carnes, 717 00:40:17,280 --> 00:40:20,799 Speaker 1: and he has a really great list. It's almost like 718 00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,040 Speaker 1: a quiz or some sort of an assessment that you 719 00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:25,360 Speaker 1: can do on your own. Of course, it's not like 720 00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:30,160 Speaker 1: a clinical assession. But if you're ever like wondering what 721 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:33,799 Speaker 1: does being addicted to sex like mean or look like, 722 00:40:33,920 --> 00:40:35,040 Speaker 1: it's a good resource. 723 00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:38,640 Speaker 2: It's just yeah, that's that's good to know, Okay, so 724 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,400 Speaker 2: you've been married for eighteen years? Is that? Is that correct? 725 00:40:41,640 --> 00:40:42,520 Speaker 1: Not to be seventeen? 726 00:40:42,600 --> 00:40:45,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, seventeen? Okay, I think I'm eighteen in June. I 727 00:40:45,320 --> 00:40:46,040 Speaker 2: think I'm eighteen. 728 00:40:46,280 --> 00:40:47,479 Speaker 1: Oh, seventeen in July. 729 00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, oh cool. So you obviously had a long, extended 730 00:40:52,360 --> 00:40:56,880 Speaker 2: monogamous sex life, right, and you are a queen, you 731 00:40:56,920 --> 00:41:00,719 Speaker 2: are a professional at all this, and how do you 732 00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:04,600 Speaker 2: how does this work within your relationship when shit is 733 00:41:04,680 --> 00:41:08,120 Speaker 2: going a little south or whatever? And does your husband 734 00:41:08,280 --> 00:41:11,640 Speaker 2: look to you as the professional? I have three of them. 735 00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:14,239 Speaker 2: It's your husband like, honey, honey, honey, tell me what 736 00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:16,080 Speaker 2: to do, Tell me what to do. You're the pro. 737 00:41:16,200 --> 00:41:16,919 Speaker 2: What's going on? 738 00:41:17,800 --> 00:41:20,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, so my husband gets that question a lot. What's 739 00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,200 Speaker 1: it like being married to a sex therapi? Yeah, yeah, 740 00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:25,800 Speaker 1: he's like, the truth is, we're just like every other couple, 741 00:41:25,880 --> 00:41:28,279 Speaker 1: but we see things from a mile away and deal 742 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,920 Speaker 1: with them. Now. That's the difference. We don't let things, 743 00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,360 Speaker 1: you know, fester even for an hour. We're those people 744 00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:39,640 Speaker 1: who like, Okay, we have to deal with this now. 745 00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:43,080 Speaker 1: We can't just like go into that silent mode. And 746 00:41:43,120 --> 00:41:46,080 Speaker 1: that goes with sex too. I mean being a woman 747 00:41:46,280 --> 00:41:49,360 Speaker 1: having had two kids, like We've gone through times where 748 00:41:49,560 --> 00:41:52,839 Speaker 1: there was definitely, like on paper, a drought, but the 749 00:41:52,960 --> 00:41:57,680 Speaker 1: pillow talk was always there and bringing up like, hey, 750 00:41:57,760 --> 00:42:00,200 Speaker 1: I recognize that it's been a couple of weeks, or 751 00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:01,880 Speaker 1: but let me tell you this is what's going on 752 00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:05,600 Speaker 1: for me, or him saying I'm feeling super disconnected from 753 00:42:05,680 --> 00:42:09,439 Speaker 1: you because we haven't had intercourse or because we haven't 754 00:42:09,440 --> 00:42:13,240 Speaker 1: done anything sexual in like three weeks, or I remember 755 00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,279 Speaker 1: at one time it must have been at least a 756 00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:17,440 Speaker 1: couple months. I mean, we were doing things, but it 757 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,680 Speaker 1: wasn't there was an intercourse, and for a lot of people, 758 00:42:20,040 --> 00:42:22,040 Speaker 1: if there is an intercourse, then it doesn't count. That's 759 00:42:22,120 --> 00:42:23,759 Speaker 1: not necessarily a pace for us. 760 00:42:24,239 --> 00:42:25,399 Speaker 2: But you can. 761 00:42:25,400 --> 00:42:28,600 Speaker 1: Quantify that, right, you can be like day one, day two, 762 00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:31,759 Speaker 1: day three, ye you know. And so he's really good 763 00:42:31,760 --> 00:42:34,960 Speaker 1: at pinpointing. Also times when he's like, I think we 764 00:42:35,040 --> 00:42:37,399 Speaker 1: need to have sex, and I'm like, I think you're right. 765 00:42:39,080 --> 00:42:42,120 Speaker 2: Well, there's so much psychology that it gets wrapped up 766 00:42:42,200 --> 00:42:45,160 Speaker 2: in all of this, you know. And I'm only speaking 767 00:42:45,239 --> 00:42:48,040 Speaker 2: just from my own experience of sort of what it 768 00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,799 Speaker 2: feels like to finally have that moment after it's been 769 00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,280 Speaker 2: a minute, and what that not just the physical release 770 00:42:56,440 --> 00:43:00,520 Speaker 2: is but just that ugh, like I'm there now, I 771 00:43:00,520 --> 00:43:03,040 Speaker 2: can think a little bit better, I feel connected to 772 00:43:03,120 --> 00:43:07,799 Speaker 2: you now, or when it's not happening. Based on my psychology, 773 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,839 Speaker 2: which is different from anyone else, is it's like, oh, 774 00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 2: you're not feeling me. Yeah, okay, obviously you're not feeling me, 775 00:43:13,840 --> 00:43:16,320 Speaker 2: which is total bullshit, but that's my own stuff. 776 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:21,120 Speaker 1: It doesn't just hurt. It's like it's like this this 777 00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,719 Speaker 1: feeling of like I'm lost, I don't I don't like this. 778 00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:30,520 Speaker 1: It's not just it's it does seep so much into 779 00:43:30,600 --> 00:43:35,520 Speaker 1: like your feelings of experiencing your highs. You know, like 780 00:43:35,840 --> 00:43:39,360 Speaker 1: I can tell people I work with really high power 781 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:43,520 Speaker 1: and high profile people and if things aren't going well 782 00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:48,120 Speaker 1: at home, those awards, those deals, those I mean, all 783 00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,840 Speaker 1: of that, it's like they just fall flat. So everybody 784 00:43:51,880 --> 00:43:55,560 Speaker 1: experiences that to a different degree, but it can be 785 00:43:55,680 --> 00:43:59,600 Speaker 1: helped through relationship therapy. I'm just a huge fan of 786 00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:03,840 Speaker 1: get that. Help invest in yourself, invest in your future. 787 00:44:04,280 --> 00:44:06,400 Speaker 1: You have so much history behind you. For a lot 788 00:44:06,440 --> 00:44:09,319 Speaker 1: of these long term couples, they have so much history 789 00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:13,080 Speaker 1: they don't necessarily need to throw it away, or at 790 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 1: least get to a place where you can say we 791 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:19,880 Speaker 1: tried and tried. Yeah, give me like three to six months, 792 00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:20,800 Speaker 1: you'll know something. 793 00:44:20,920 --> 00:44:24,720 Speaker 2: And do you dig into their whole you know why, 794 00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:28,040 Speaker 2: the sort of root cause of why some of these 795 00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:32,520 Speaker 2: things are happening or why they can't communicate and sort 796 00:44:32,520 --> 00:44:35,640 Speaker 2: of you know, pairing that with pillow talk as well. 797 00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:39,080 Speaker 2: Once you can understand your own psychology or your partner's 798 00:44:39,120 --> 00:44:43,520 Speaker 2: psychology as to why, that pillow talk can then be curated. Essentially, 799 00:44:44,360 --> 00:44:45,440 Speaker 2: because so. 800 00:44:45,400 --> 00:44:47,520 Speaker 1: I have my doctor in marriage and family therapy, and 801 00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,320 Speaker 1: because I'm a licensed marriage and family therapist, I'm allowed 802 00:44:50,320 --> 00:44:52,839 Speaker 1: to do that. Coaches are not allowed. 803 00:44:52,520 --> 00:44:52,960 Speaker 2: To do that. 804 00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:55,640 Speaker 1: They cannot go into the past or into the you know, 805 00:44:55,719 --> 00:44:59,200 Speaker 1: like the origins. They're very future oriented, which can be 806 00:44:59,360 --> 00:45:02,040 Speaker 1: very helpful. But I find that when you're talking about 807 00:45:02,120 --> 00:45:05,680 Speaker 1: two people, it's like, especially like you're talking about all 808 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:09,000 Speaker 1: this psychology you know, and I have I'm able to 809 00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:11,600 Speaker 1: do that, and I absolutely do. I think it's so 810 00:45:11,680 --> 00:45:14,640 Speaker 1: important to not just know the what, but the why. 811 00:45:15,239 --> 00:45:17,840 Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm gonna let you go, but I've got I 812 00:45:17,920 --> 00:45:21,359 Speaker 2: got I got one thing i gotta say which has 813 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:26,520 Speaker 2: been amazing for us, and it wasn't even too. It 814 00:45:26,560 --> 00:45:30,120 Speaker 2: wasn't even to kickstart anything, but it just created for 815 00:45:30,360 --> 00:45:32,839 Speaker 2: play without having to do it on your own. So 816 00:45:32,960 --> 00:45:37,640 Speaker 2: we took games. Okay, we took Yazi, we took Jenga. 817 00:45:38,200 --> 00:45:40,640 Speaker 2: Yatzi was the first one. We called it Sexual Yatzi. 818 00:45:40,680 --> 00:45:44,360 Speaker 2: We literally did this on our fucking honeymoon. Where you know, 819 00:45:44,360 --> 00:45:46,680 Speaker 2: if you know Yazi, you write in you know, your 820 00:45:46,719 --> 00:45:48,960 Speaker 2: scores and whatever it is. Once you roll the dice 821 00:45:49,400 --> 00:45:53,000 Speaker 2: instead of putting the putting like numbers, and you put 822 00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:55,640 Speaker 2: sort of a sexual act that you would like done 823 00:45:55,680 --> 00:45:58,480 Speaker 2: to yourself or that you that that you want to 824 00:45:58,520 --> 00:46:02,080 Speaker 2: do to them, and so it can be as graphic 825 00:46:02,280 --> 00:46:05,360 Speaker 2: or as sort of as sort of simple as you 826 00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:09,000 Speaker 2: want it to be. So you're creating this for play 827 00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,799 Speaker 2: through a game that is so fun because if you 828 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:13,600 Speaker 2: roll like three of a Kind and you're like, I'm 829 00:46:13,600 --> 00:46:15,160 Speaker 2: going to take three of a kind, you read it 830 00:46:15,200 --> 00:46:19,320 Speaker 2: and it says like, you know, go down on you 831 00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,520 Speaker 2: for thirty seconds, and like, okay, here we go, thirty 832 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,279 Speaker 2: seconds done. You know, then you got to come back up. 833 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:28,640 Speaker 1: I'm a big fan of games, and I'm actually developing 834 00:46:28,719 --> 00:46:31,480 Speaker 1: an intimacy game, so I'm absolutely going to send one 835 00:46:31,480 --> 00:46:32,960 Speaker 1: your way when it's ready to go. 836 00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:34,920 Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, for sure, I love this stuff. And 837 00:46:34,960 --> 00:46:37,000 Speaker 2: then we took Jenga, you know, Djengo, or you pull 838 00:46:37,080 --> 00:46:40,200 Speaker 2: the bricks out, you write your little fantasies or whatever 839 00:46:40,200 --> 00:46:41,640 Speaker 2: you wanted to done to you on the bricks. So 840 00:46:41,680 --> 00:46:43,680 Speaker 2: you pull it out and it's like ooh, you know. 841 00:46:44,280 --> 00:46:46,359 Speaker 1: And there's no question you have to do it. 842 00:46:46,640 --> 00:46:49,160 Speaker 2: You have to do it. And sometimes it's like, you know, 843 00:46:49,520 --> 00:46:52,960 Speaker 2: really sort of you know, sensual, and sometimes it's like, 844 00:46:53,560 --> 00:46:58,120 Speaker 2: you know, like you're actually having penetration for thirty seconds, 845 00:46:58,160 --> 00:47:01,520 Speaker 2: but you have to stop. So it builds it up 846 00:47:01,560 --> 00:47:04,440 Speaker 2: to this point where eventually you just can't take it 847 00:47:04,520 --> 00:47:07,160 Speaker 2: anymore and then boom, you're off to the races. And 848 00:47:07,200 --> 00:47:10,720 Speaker 2: I've always sort of given that little piece of advice 849 00:47:10,760 --> 00:47:13,279 Speaker 2: or what we have done to couples of friends of 850 00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:15,440 Speaker 2: ours who sex life is kind of like I'm like, 851 00:47:15,760 --> 00:47:18,360 Speaker 2: just try that one night, drink a bottle of wine 852 00:47:18,360 --> 00:47:19,160 Speaker 2: and try that. 853 00:47:19,640 --> 00:47:22,399 Speaker 1: Yeah. Absolutely well. I'm hoping to see you and your 854 00:47:22,440 --> 00:47:26,399 Speaker 1: wife at my pillow Talk June tenth Master Class three. 855 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:30,400 Speaker 1: It's online on Monday, June tenth at twelve thirty Central. 856 00:47:30,560 --> 00:47:34,560 Speaker 1: You can go ahead and register at pillow talkmasterclass dot 857 00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:37,319 Speaker 1: com and follow me at doctor Viviana spell at the 858 00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,840 Speaker 1: Doctor and hopefully I'll see you all then because I 859 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:41,680 Speaker 1: really want to help you connect and I think this 860 00:47:41,760 --> 00:47:42,520 Speaker 1: is the way to do it. 861 00:47:42,880 --> 00:47:45,919 Speaker 2: Great, perfect, Thank you so much. This was so fun. 862 00:47:45,960 --> 00:47:48,480 Speaker 2: I appreciate your time, all right, and. 863 00:47:48,280 --> 00:47:50,040 Speaker 1: Your whole family. Thank you so much for having me. 864 00:47:50,080 --> 00:47:51,000 Speaker 1: I really appreciate it. 865 00:47:51,239 --> 00:47:55,400 Speaker 2: Of course, of course we'll talk to all right. She 866 00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:59,360 Speaker 2: was great. I mean, you know, dedicating your life to sex. 867 00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,040 Speaker 2: I mean that's kind of double edged sword, you know 868 00:48:03,040 --> 00:48:05,000 Speaker 2: what I mean, it's the good and the bad. I 869 00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:11,200 Speaker 2: feel like I could have been a sex therapist. Would 870 00:48:11,200 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 2: have been a fun one too. People be like, oh 871 00:48:12,840 --> 00:48:14,800 Speaker 2: my god, I cannot wait to go to sex therapy 872 00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:19,600 Speaker 2: with Oliver and it's just gonna be a blast. Yeah, 873 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:21,040 Speaker 2: but I would have been good at it. I will 874 00:48:21,080 --> 00:48:22,880 Speaker 2: say though that, you know, I know, I'm an actor 875 00:48:22,920 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 2: and I in the business or producing blah blah blah blah. 876 00:48:26,239 --> 00:48:28,480 Speaker 2: But if I wasn't doing that, I would I would 877 00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:32,879 Speaker 2: probably well, i'd be a fisherman. But forget about that. Psychology. 878 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:38,880 Speaker 2: Fucking love psychology. Anyway. That was fun. Thank you so much, 879 00:48:39,160 --> 00:48:42,759 Speaker 2: and we'll see you next time out.