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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Bloomberg Markets Podcast. I'm Paul Sweeney, alongside

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Speaker 1: my co host Matt Miller. Every business day we bring

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Speaker 1: you interviews from CEOs, market pros, and Bloomberg experts, along

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Speaker 1: with essential market moving news. Find the Bloomberg Markets Podcast

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Speaker 1: on Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts, and

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Speaker 1: at Bloomberg dot com slash podcast. Let's talk about Don

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Speaker 1: McCree joins us right now, head of commercial banking at

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Speaker 1: Citizens Financial Group and Don um. We have over the

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Speaker 1: last really our heard um, some really pessimistic outlooks due

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Speaker 1: to the resurgence of the delta variant and maybe MoU

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Speaker 1: or whatever other Greek letters are upon us. Um. How

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Speaker 1: does it look in your world? Well, I think we're

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Speaker 1: we're seeing a little bit of a slowdown, but I

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Speaker 1: have to say that we continue to be quite optimistic

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Speaker 1: and we we think we're going to get through some

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Speaker 1: of these variants. Our clients are actually doing quite well,

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Speaker 1: and our transactional businesses, our M and A business, and

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Speaker 1: our capital markets businesses are all time highs and the

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Speaker 1: pipelines continue to build. So we continue to be, you know,

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Speaker 1: focused on Delta and the and the potential new viruses,

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Speaker 1: but quite optimistic as we look forward and I see

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Speaker 1: that you bought j MP Group. UM is a capital

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Speaker 1: markets business that I'm familiar within US and folks to

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Speaker 1: work there talk to us about j MP and kind

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Speaker 1: of what you guys are thinking about in terms of

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Speaker 1: you know, making this acquisition in terms of your capital

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Speaker 1: markets capabilities. Yeah, so it's it's really exciting for us.

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Speaker 1: We've been on a five year kind of UH strategy

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Speaker 1: to build out our capability sets UH to be able

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Speaker 1: to do really whatever our client states to do at

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Speaker 1: any pointant time. So built out to big syndicated financing business,

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Speaker 1: built out I bought three M and a boutiques, recently

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Speaker 1: bought a valuation firm, have a great debt capital market

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Speaker 1: securities business, and what we were missing was was equities.

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Speaker 1: And j MP is just built a tremendous business over

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Speaker 1: the last several years. It's really recording record results and

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Speaker 1: and it also brings us deep sector experience and some

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Speaker 1: really exciting sectors namely healthcare, UM technology, real estate, and

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Speaker 1: financial services. So we think we think it really is

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Speaker 1: complementary to us. There's very little overlap, so it's kind

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Speaker 1: of a hundred synergistic for us. And most importantly, I

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Speaker 1: think is the the culture there is very similar to

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Speaker 1: our culture and uh, and that's really the most important

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Speaker 1: thing when you're when you're when you're buying a capital

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Speaker 1: markets firm, like like j MP, what's your what's what's

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Speaker 1: your d n A, what's their DNA. What's the similarity

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Speaker 1: and culture that you like? I'd say client focus, uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, first and foremost, and really a premium on

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Speaker 1: building really deep relationships where deep industry expert these is

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Speaker 1: delivered and we've become really the trusted partner with with

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Speaker 1: each of our clients and that just tends to expand

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Speaker 1: the the ways that we can engage with every other

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Speaker 1: every client. What we've been able to do for the

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Speaker 1: last several years is really bring three, four or five

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Speaker 1: six different products to the table, you know, as we

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Speaker 1: built at our client franchise, and j MP thinks very

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Speaker 1: similar to that in terms of the way they really

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Speaker 1: try to build deep client relationships. Don tell tell us

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Speaker 1: about loan demand out there. There's so much liquidity in

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Speaker 1: the marketplace. There's a lot of fiscal stimulus, and we've

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Speaker 1: heard some of the the bank, some of the bigger

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Speaker 1: money center banks and the ernest calls talk about, you know,

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Speaker 1: the loan demand isn't there um necessarily what are you

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Speaker 1: seeing with with your clients in your markets. It's it's

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Speaker 1: it's reasonably muted right now, and you hit the nail

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Speaker 1: on the head is a lot of clients are sitting

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Speaker 1: with a lot of liquidity and they're going to need

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Speaker 1: to use that liquidity before loan demand really picks up.

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Speaker 1: Where we're seeing it is in utilization rates of our

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Speaker 1: of our facilities, which are six to seven points lower

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Speaker 1: than they normally would be as economy recovers. So the

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Speaker 1: good news on the on the flip side is what

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Speaker 1: we're seeing as record capital markets fees. So if companies

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Speaker 1: are financing and needing to raise capital, we're experiencing, you know,

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Speaker 1: very strong capital markets flows which offset some of the

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Speaker 1: weakness on the loan side. But we think, we think

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Speaker 1: it begins to come back. Our loan pipelines are looking

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Speaker 1: you know, reasonably good towards the back end of the year.

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Speaker 1: Uh and and some I would call it transactional loan

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Speaker 1: facilities like abs, warehousing and things like that are beginning

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Speaker 1: to get a lot more active. Does the rates environment

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Speaker 1: depress you. I mean, it doesn't seem like even the

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Speaker 1: terminal rate if you look at it, depressed me emotionally. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it's it's tough. I mean with the flat with rates

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Speaker 1: where they are in a flat yield curve. You know,

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Speaker 1: the spreads are under pressure. We've been able to you know,

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Speaker 1: lower our deposit costs in my business reasonably aggressively, so

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Speaker 1: we've been able to hold our net interest margin. Um

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Speaker 1: so so far, so good. But but you know, the

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Speaker 1: spread income is is certainly under pressure for the entire industry.

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Speaker 1: Don talk to us about the credit quality. What are

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Speaker 1: you seeing in terms of credit quality for your portfolio?

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Speaker 1: And again, it seems it's come in much much better

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Speaker 1: than expected. It seems like over the last eighteen months,

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Speaker 1: given the economic disruptions, what are you see? It's terrific.

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Speaker 1: I mean every I won't say everyone, but the vast

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Speaker 1: majority of our companies are doing better than we expected

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Speaker 1: them to do. So they're they're clearly seeing, you know, um,

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Speaker 1: positive things on the horizon. And a lot of it

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Speaker 1: is because a lot of these companies really hunkered down.

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Speaker 1: And I've said that this this downturn, the COVID downturn

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Speaker 1: was much different than prior downturns, and that it was

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Speaker 1: immediate and it was deep. So CEOs and CFOs got

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Speaker 1: very serious and right sized their businesses very quickly, and

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Speaker 1: that allowed them to build up liquidity and and actually

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Speaker 1: come out of the beginnings of the return with huge

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Speaker 1: amounts of excess capacity. So that's resulted in all the

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Speaker 1: releases that you're seeing all the banks make in terms

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Speaker 1: of their credit reserves. And we still we still see

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Speaker 1: very bright things on the future and we we really

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Speaker 1: have moved beyond the credit issues that we we we

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Speaker 1: were staring at about you know, a year and a

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Speaker 1: half ago. Surely fiscal spending didn't hurt and when we

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Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's not gonna last like that forever, right,

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Speaker 1: So eventually, um, the federal government going to stop spending

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Speaker 1: you know, multiple trillions of dollars extra every year um

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Speaker 1: or or will they What do you think about that?

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Speaker 1: Is there a fiscal cliff or or or is there not?

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Speaker 1: It's it's there. There's there's a there's a fiscal cliff

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Speaker 1: in terms of removing some of the stimulus that's been there.

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Speaker 1: Some of that will be offset with things like the

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Speaker 1: infrastructure program. So it will be different forms of spending

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Speaker 1: which will continue to be simulative stimulated. That that it's

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Speaker 1: not really worrying the client base right now. What's worrying

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Speaker 1: the client base is the supply chain. And if if

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Speaker 1: we hear a common theme from from a broad set

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Speaker 1: of clients, it's the inability to get goods that they're

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Speaker 1: trying to source in the market. And people do expect

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Speaker 1: that to continue for a while. So that's it's in

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Speaker 1: a funny way, that's having a constraining effect on the

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Speaker 1: performance of some companies, even if their order books or strengthening,

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Speaker 1: so as well as they're doing, they would be doing

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Speaker 1: even better if they weren't having the supply chain and

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Speaker 1: in fact their labor problems that a lot of them

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Speaker 1: are facing in terms of if you can hire someone,

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Speaker 1: the cost of the as hires are going up quite substantially.

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Speaker 1: All right, done, You, like a lot of other bankers

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Speaker 1: are saying business is good. What's the biggest risk out there?

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Speaker 1: What's the worry for you guys? I think a big

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Speaker 1: resurgence of covid um so that I think that and

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Speaker 1: or some geopolitical event that nobody can anticipate. I mean

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Speaker 1: so so but the thing we're focused on is tracking

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Speaker 1: you know, COVID. It feels okay to us now and uh,

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Speaker 1: you know, we're out traveling seeing clients, were getting good

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Speaker 1: reports from uh, you know, most of our clients, and um,

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Speaker 1: we're pretty optimistic. And five seconds here, are you back

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Speaker 1: in the offices. Are your teams back? Yes, they are.

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Speaker 1: I'm sitting in New York right now, and uh, we

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Speaker 1: we were trying to get people back. I think it's

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Speaker 1: super important from a cultural standpoint. Yeah. Absolutely, Okay, that's

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Speaker 1: the debate here for a lot of companies. Don McCree,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Yet again, we'd love

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Speaker 1: getting your perspective on what's going on out there. Uh.

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Speaker 1: In corporate America, Don McRee is ahead of commercial banking

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Speaker 1: for Citizens Financial Group. And again is what we've heard

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Speaker 1: from a lot of bankers. Business is good. They're clients

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Speaker 1: are continuing to invest. Uh. They are looking forward, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: looking for capital, looking for returns. Uh. And business is

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Speaker 1: good despite a flat yield curve and low interest rate environment. Now,

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Speaker 1: as Paul has been saying, we're gonna bring in Randy

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Speaker 1: Swimmer right now, Senior Managing Director and co heed of

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Speaker 1: Senior lending. At Churchill Asset Management, they have thirty one

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Speaker 1: billion dollars in committed capital and UM. One of the

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Speaker 1: things that that obviously people are looking for UM desperately

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Speaker 1: and not finding very easily, Randy, is return. I heard

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Speaker 1: Howard Marks the other day say he thinks, you know,

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Speaker 1: three basis points is enough reward for the risk of

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Speaker 1: high yield debt, of junk debt, which I thought was

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Speaker 1: pretty amazing. Where are you finding return? Yeah, so if

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Speaker 1: you think about where high yield used to be, it

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Speaker 1: used to be high yield, it used to be you know,

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Speaker 1: high sing old digits UM. It has not been the

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Speaker 1: case for a while. There's reasons, technical reasons why that's

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Speaker 1: the case. But what's happened with investors. They're looking at

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Speaker 1: the private market now because the premium, the so called

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Speaker 1: illiquidity premium, because the private market typically doesn't trade the

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Speaker 1: way the bond market does. That premium is anywhere from

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Speaker 1: a hundred to three hundred basis points over the liquid

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Speaker 1: credit markets, and that's attractive for investors. So, Randy, give

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Speaker 1: us a sense of you know, the credit quality in

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Speaker 1: the you know, the private capital business, UM, in the

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Speaker 1: leverage loan business, UM, because it seems like it's been

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Speaker 1: better than expected, you know, after just coming through eighteen

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Speaker 1: months of this economic disruption brought about by the pandemic.

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Speaker 1: What are you seeing? Yeah? And in fact, if you

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Speaker 1: look at the overall direct lending and private credit business

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Speaker 1: defaults over the last eighteen months been lower than the

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Speaker 1: broadly syndicated market, which are the large liquid loans and

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Speaker 1: then the high yield market. And in part I think

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Speaker 1: that's because the private credit market has been focused more

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Speaker 1: on defensive industries in general, less on things like oil

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Speaker 1: and gas and retail, which obviously have gotten hammered um,

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Speaker 1: you know, through the COVID period, and more on defensive

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Speaker 1: business to business sectors like healthcare, software, technology, and business services.

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Speaker 1: And so being an active manager in private credit um

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Speaker 1: meant certainly for us going into COVID, we focused on

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Speaker 1: those sectors that are less correlated to consumer spending because

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Speaker 1: historically we've been doing this for fifteen years under the

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Speaker 1: Churchill banner, we've known that recessions do tend to be

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Speaker 1: you know, led on the consumer side, and so the

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Speaker 1: less consumer facing businesses you have generally the better when

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Speaker 1: you go into these And that's exactly it happened for

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Speaker 1: us and a few others in the COVID period. We

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Speaker 1: have no defaults or losses related to COVID, and so

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Speaker 1: then you come out and you're still how the tail

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Speaker 1: wind here with these these we call them to have businesses,

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Speaker 1: the businesses that have done well and have been relatively

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Speaker 1: unaffected by COVID. I wonder about the still the underperformance

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Speaker 1: of UM. You mentioned oil and gas energy, the underperformance

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Speaker 1: of basic materials producers. We haven't seen them bounce back

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Speaker 1: with the rest of the market. And I know at

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Speaker 1: least the in Europe we see basic materials and energy

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Speaker 1: trading just about half the forward pease of the broader market.

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Speaker 1: Is that going to change? Well. Part of the focus

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Speaker 1: now is related to the economy as a whole. And

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Speaker 1: one of the things we recognized about the biological threat

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Speaker 1: around the the the economy and how businesses were reacting

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Speaker 1: to that threat. And what was interesting was as you

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Speaker 1: think about where we were and predicting what was happening

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Speaker 1: with the economy a year ago versus where we are today.

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Speaker 1: The iron is, we thought we were going to be

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Speaker 1: coming out of the downturn UM and at the point

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Speaker 1: where we were going to be looking towards the end

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Speaker 1: with a pretty pretty clear sailing and that would be

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Speaker 1: could be measured across the economy in terms of overall

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Speaker 1: GDP growth and so forth. And what we have discovered

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Speaker 1: instead is that the delta variant has had has really

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Speaker 1: weighed down on the potential growth that we could see

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Speaker 1: across the economy. And obviously things like commodities are driven

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Speaker 1: by that growth. And you can see in the equities markets,

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Speaker 1: since you know, kind of returning from the labor day weekend, UM,

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Speaker 1: there's investors are kind of concerned about what what does

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Speaker 1: that mean in terms of the growth for this year?

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Speaker 1: UM certainly employed him. We've seen that impacted in the

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Speaker 1: most recent label reports. What does that mean sort of

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Speaker 1: medium term for growth because that is going to impact

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Speaker 1: some of these more cyclical businesses. And Randy thanks so

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Speaker 1: much for joining us. We really appreciated getting a look

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Speaker 1: at the middle market private lending business. It is a

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Speaker 1: increasingly liquid business where you can get some very attractive

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Speaker 1: relative returns UH and Randy Schremmer gives us some color there.

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Speaker 1: Randy Schremmer, Senior Managing Director, CO head of senior lending

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Speaker 1: at Churchill Asset Management. Think about thirty one billion dollars

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Speaker 1: in committed capital. Uh. He is a alum of the

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Speaker 1: JP Morgan Chase. That's early in my career. I was

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Speaker 1: at Chase Manhattan Bank. We were leverage lenders to media

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Speaker 1: companies and um. It is a very good business, but

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Speaker 1: it is all about credit quality and doing the really

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Speaker 1: deep dive and credit analysis to see if the cash

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Speaker 1: flow is there to pay you back. As you're lending

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Speaker 1: against cash flow, and a lot of these businesses not

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Speaker 1: against assets like inventory or hard assets, so you can

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Speaker 1: have to do the really good cash flow analysis. Right

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Speaker 1: fifty four highs for the SP five hundred this year,

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Speaker 1: strong earnings, an accommodative Federal reserve, although tapering is certainly

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Speaker 1: on the table later this year. What is an investor

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Speaker 1: to do? Let's bring in Jordan Jackson. He's a global

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Speaker 1: market strategist for JP Morgan Asset Management. He's also a

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Speaker 1: Wahoo from the University of Virginia, but we won't hold

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Speaker 1: that against him. Jordan, thanks so much for joining us here.

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Speaker 1: What are you telling your clients here at JP Morgan

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Speaker 1: Asset Management about this market? Right here? Well, it's as

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Speaker 1: certainly an interesting market. You know, I'm still of the

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Speaker 1: opinion I'm fairly bullish on the market. I I stay

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Speaker 1: constructive due to a couple of reasons. So I think

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Speaker 1: we have a powerful tail wind from the FED um

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Speaker 1: individual fiscal stimulus. I think the key there is tapering

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Speaker 1: is not tightening. Right, We're still looking at an additional

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Speaker 1: rest least seven hundred eight eight hundred billion in fiscal

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Speaker 1: stimulus that should kit the market, uh between now in

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Speaker 1: the middle of the middle of next year. I think

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Speaker 1: bibacks are going to be strong and and may accelerate

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Speaker 1: from here on out. And I think corporate balance sheets

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Speaker 1: are sitting on high levels of cash with with low leverage,

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Speaker 1: and that should should be supportive of subsher hold the

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Speaker 1: distributions going forward. Um. You know, look, I think growth

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Speaker 1: is still going to remain above trend as well. And

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Speaker 1: you know, I think all those paints are pretty goldilocks

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Speaker 1: scenario for for equity markets. Where do you see the

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Speaker 1: best valuations or where do you see the best value?

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Speaker 1: I should probably phrase that differently. Sure, you know, I

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Speaker 1: still see some value in the more cyclical, value orientated

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Speaker 1: parts of the market, but I think investors should really

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Speaker 1: start to strike a bit more of a balanced tone

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Speaker 1: when we start talking about, you know, value versus growth.

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Speaker 1: Obviously that the large tech names continue to kind of

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Speaker 1: play a bit more defense and in a market like this,

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Speaker 1: as growth concerns continue to weary the markets, and and

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Speaker 1: the delta bar continues to spook the markets as well.

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Speaker 1: But I still think we're a biased for uh steeper

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Speaker 1: yeld curves. I still think that we're of yields are

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Speaker 1: at today. They're just not aligned with the fundamental picture

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Speaker 1: or the fundamental outlook, and so um I think in

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Speaker 1: that environment, you know, financials can still do well. I

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Speaker 1: still think energy and industrials again, those value orientated parts

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Speaker 1: of the market can can do well as the economy

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Speaker 1: continues to reopen. So it's a it's a it's less

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Speaker 1: so about you know, trying to overweight value versus growth.

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Speaker 1: But I think striking a bit of a balance between

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Speaker 1: the two makes makes a whole lot of sense. How

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Speaker 1: about that sixty forty portfolio, Jordan, Is that still a

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Speaker 1: thing or is that a thing of the past, Given

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Speaker 1: where global yields are right now, I'd argue that it's

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Speaker 1: it's it's it's it's a thing of the past. You know,

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Speaker 1: when we look at sort of valuations on the equity

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Speaker 1: side and on the fixed income side, you kind of

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Speaker 1: put those two together. On the forward returns that you're

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Speaker 1: getting out of sixty forty portfolio, um including you know,

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Speaker 1: baking in inflation, are are roughing around one to two

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Speaker 1: on it on a real real return going forward over

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Speaker 1: the next five or ten years. So that's just not

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Speaker 1: going to cut it for for investor. But I think

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Speaker 1: it's it's less about you know, how much of a

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Speaker 1: sixty you need or or how much of a floor

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Speaker 1: do you need, but more so about you know, looking

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Speaker 1: at the overall portfolio and identifying where the opportunities to

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Speaker 1: add things like alternatives where you can sort of uh

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Speaker 1: more liquid alternative if you can head some of that

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Speaker 1: equity downside, but also complimenting that with some of some

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Speaker 1: more private alternatives as well, things like real estated infrastructure

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Speaker 1: for those qualified investors who that can provide a uncorrelated

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Speaker 1: return stream um to to the overall portfolio. So I

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Speaker 1: think there's gonna be a lot more conversations around alternatives

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Speaker 1: within that sixty forty portfolio because we know just returns

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Speaker 1: in public markets just aren't going to be there going

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Speaker 1: for it? What about crypto? A lot of people are

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Speaker 1: talking about forty one portfolio. I mean, look, if you're

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Speaker 1: talking about discussions, I'm sure these these are discussions you're

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Speaker 1: having with investors, whether or not you're allocating money to it,

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Speaker 1: right absolutely, And and and investors are are you know,

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Speaker 1: asking for you know, where are their vehicles and and

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Speaker 1: avaluence they can access access to market? Um. You know, look,

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Speaker 1: I I think for those investors who are willing to

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Speaker 1: to stomach that kind of volatility, obviously, the move that

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Speaker 1: you've seen in the crypto markets over the past couple

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Speaker 1: of days certainly comind us that it is is a

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Speaker 1: very very volatile market. But you know, I think cryptal

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Speaker 1: is here to stay. Um. And again, for those investors

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Speaker 1: who are able to craft out a sleeve of the

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Speaker 1: portfolio making some of the volatility, I think, I think

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Speaker 1: go for it. Jordian, do you think this market is

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Speaker 1: going to rationally I guess I'll use that term um

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Speaker 1: kind of discount the tapering that is expected later this year.

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Speaker 1: Do you expect a taper tantrum of any sort or

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Speaker 1: do you think that that's done a good job of

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Speaker 1: kind of signaling where it's going. I like the phrase

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Speaker 1: tapering is not tightening, yes, because they're still growing the

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Speaker 1: balance sheet right, just at a slower pace. Again, absolutely,

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Speaker 1: as I mentioned earlier about about another you know, eight

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Speaker 1: hundred billions, so still set to liquidity. It's set to

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Speaker 1: hit the market from now until the middle of the

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Speaker 1: middle of next year. You know. I think the Fed

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Speaker 1: has done a pretty good job at um you know,

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Speaker 1: communicating tapering is on the table and when tapering is

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Speaker 1: likely to occur, and so I think the markets have

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Speaker 1: more or less are are prepared for it. And I

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Speaker 1: think the big difference that that I got really out

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Speaker 1: of the Jackson hole and the difference that I've identified

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Speaker 1: um or I'm seeing with relative to taper is the

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Speaker 1: chair has been really good at separating tapering from when

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Speaker 1: interest rate hypes are are expected to come. When Ben

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Speaker 1: Berniki came out and made thirteen and made comments about tapering,

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Speaker 1: you saw you saw the front end, oh I s

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Speaker 1: markets essentially moved from pricing in no rate hikes over

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Speaker 1: the next two years to pricing in five rate hyps

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Speaker 1: by September thirteen, UM. And so there was just this

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Speaker 1: there's this idea that you know, a tapering the balance

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Speaker 1: sheet was immediately going to uh push the push the

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Speaker 1: FED to begin hiking rates once tapering was done. I

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Speaker 1: think their own power did a really good job at

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Speaker 1: separating the tapering discussion from the interest rate high discussion,

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Speaker 1: and so where I was a bit more in the

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Speaker 1: camp that the BED would be a little bit more

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Speaker 1: aggressive to tape of the balance you to open up

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Speaker 1: the pathway to high grade from sometimes maybe the fourth

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Speaker 1: quarter of next year, of the first half of I

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Speaker 1: think they've done a good job at sort of sitting

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Speaker 1: on the silines and saying that, hey, it made me

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Speaker 1: the second half before we see some rate hikes. Jordan,

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Speaker 1: thanks so much for joining us. Pleasure having you on

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Speaker 1: the program. Jordan Jackson, global market strategist with JP Morgan

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Speaker 1: Asset Management. This is Bloomberg. Well, the delta variant is

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Speaker 1: keeping this pandemic on the front burner for investors as

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Speaker 1: an issue. The questions include what will this mean for

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Speaker 1: economic growth on a global basis going forward. Let's bring

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Speaker 1: in Constance Hunt, our chief economists for KPMG. Constant, thanks

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Speaker 1: so much for for joining us. We really appreciate you

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Speaker 1: taking the time here, how are you factoring into your

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Speaker 1: g DP model. Um, this lingering pandemic driven by the

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Speaker 1: delta variant. Yeah, hey Paul, great to be with you.

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Speaker 1: It really comes across in two key dimensions. One of course,

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Speaker 1: is the global supply chain. So with the pandemic lingering,

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Speaker 1: it means that factories have the susceptibility to be shut down,

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Speaker 1: that people have the susceptibility of course of calling in

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Speaker 1: sick and being unable to work, and and of course

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Speaker 1: all the issues with shipping. I mean getting someone to

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Speaker 1: work in the merchant marine ship sector during a pandemic

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Speaker 1: is really really difficult. So they're in addition to the

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Speaker 1: supply chain bottlenecks at the factory floor, there are supply

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Speaker 1: chain bottlenecks with regarding getting goods out to market, and

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Speaker 1: of course that has knock on effects and impacts our economy,

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Speaker 1: and we see that most acutely in the chip shortage

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Speaker 1: that's impacting the auto sector as well as in the

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Speaker 1: number of other sectors. And as a result of constants,

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Speaker 1: you're you're reducing your GDP forecast drastically if I'm reading

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Speaker 1: it right or is it well, it's from a quarterly perspective,

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Speaker 1: very drastically, Yeah, down to one point seven percent from

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Speaker 1: six previously. Yeah, for the third quarters, so for the year.

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Speaker 1: Just to put that in perspective, right, that takes us

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Speaker 1: from a six point four percent growth fore to four

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Speaker 1: point seven. So our assumption is that we do see

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Speaker 1: some easing of the delta variant in the fourth quarter.

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Speaker 1: But you know, the mistake we have all made ever

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Speaker 1: since the beginning of this pandemic, and we continue to

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Speaker 1: make because I think people are optimists at heart, um,

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Speaker 1: is that we continue to underestimate the impact of the

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Speaker 1: pandemic or we we revert to the mean of saying, Okay,

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Speaker 1: well we'll get through this and then we'll get back

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Speaker 1: to normal. And you know, when we look at what happened,

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Speaker 1: for example, to consumer confidence in August that our decline,

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Speaker 1: everybody had penned their hopes on September being to get

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Speaker 1: back to normal time, schools would get back to normal,

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Speaker 1: offices would get back to normal, life would get back

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Speaker 1: to normal. And there's just nothing worse than dashed hopes.

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Speaker 1: What is your sense constance for this supply chain? Because

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Speaker 1: you know, Matt and I we talked to you know,

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Speaker 1: lots of corporate executives and from across a whole swath

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Speaker 1: of industries, and we're just hearing that it it continues

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Speaker 1: to be a big issue. How long do you think

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Speaker 1: it will be a big Yeah? And and kind of

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Speaker 1: what does that too for growth? Yeah? Well, I mean

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Speaker 1: here's where you need me to be on with an

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Speaker 1: epidemiologist or a virologist, right, because how long it goes

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Speaker 1: on really depends on how long the pandemic goes on.

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Speaker 1: And and I think obviously, because we have the vaccine,

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Speaker 1: we know we have the potential to have the pandemic

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Speaker 1: go on for a much shorter time than history large

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Speaker 1: pandemics of this nature have gone on. But yet it's

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Speaker 1: the distribution of that vaccine across not just the US

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00:24:08,240 --> 00:24:12,480
Speaker 1: population but the world that is really causing the pandemic

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00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:16,800
Speaker 1: to linger and and having continued health and economic effects.

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Speaker 1: And if we can answer the question of how long

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Speaker 1: the pandemic goes on, we can answer the question of

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Speaker 1: how long the supply chain problems go on. Yeah, I mean,

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Speaker 1: m the supply chain issues are so broad. One of

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Speaker 1: the issues those just the chip shortage, and surely that

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Speaker 1: is less affected by the virus. Now, Oh, I mean

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Speaker 1: Obviously it had its origins in in um In in

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00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,320
Speaker 1: terms of the type of chips that were being made, right,

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00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,600
Speaker 1: so that the year up to five G and then

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00:24:49,680 --> 00:24:53,120
Speaker 1: the shift and demand due to the pandemic away from

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00:24:53,240 --> 00:24:57,680
Speaker 1: five G related chips to more traditional chips. So there's

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00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,400
Speaker 1: that aspect. But but I do think the the chip

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00:25:00,440 --> 00:25:03,159
Speaker 1: shorg is being impacted by the pandemic because a lot

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00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:06,480
Speaker 1: of the factories are not able to operate a full capacity.

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00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:10,040
Speaker 1: And then the shipping issue that I mentioned, right, so

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00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:12,399
Speaker 1: even if you get them produced, getting them into a

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00:25:12,520 --> 00:25:16,639
Speaker 1: port that's clogged up, it has delays um getting them

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00:25:16,760 --> 00:25:20,080
Speaker 1: onto a ship, getting them out of of Asia into

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00:25:20,480 --> 00:25:22,520
Speaker 1: the port of Los Angeles. I mean, the backup of

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00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 1: ships in the Port of Los Angeles is significant, and

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00:25:26,040 --> 00:25:29,920
Speaker 1: um there just aren't enough containers to to get the

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Speaker 1: get the goods distributed throughout the country. And we look

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00:25:33,560 --> 00:25:36,080
Speaker 1: at if we look at goods consumption in the first

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00:25:36,160 --> 00:25:40,520
Speaker 1: half of this year, it grew it in nine annualized rate,

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Speaker 1: and just to put that in perspective, goods consumption in

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00:25:44,880 --> 00:25:47,080
Speaker 1: for the whole year grew at about three and a

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00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:50,879
Speaker 1: half percent. Right, So this surge and demand for goods

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00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:54,760
Speaker 1: is also clogging up the supply chain and taking up

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00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,840
Speaker 1: room on trucks and container ships. UM that might otherwise

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00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,200
Speaker 1: be uh you used fight ships and and and and

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00:26:02,640 --> 00:26:08,000
Speaker 1: and so we're seeing bottlenecks across multiple dimensions and it

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00:26:08,160 --> 00:26:11,119
Speaker 1: just takes time to work through those bottlenecks, even if

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00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:13,119
Speaker 1: we could produce the same number of chips at the

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00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:17,080
Speaker 1: factory floor, which we are not. What's interesting, uh, Constance

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Speaker 1: and Matt Charlie Pellet Bloomberg Zone. Charlie Pellett gave me

478
00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,960
Speaker 1: a great app to use. It's called find Ship and

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00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,959
Speaker 1: it kind of tracks all the ships around the globe

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Speaker 1: and boil. There are a lot of ships off the

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Speaker 1: port of Sandals. I know it's on the terminal map,

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00:26:31,480 --> 00:26:34,520
Speaker 1: but not everybody has terminal. I know, but not everybody

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00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,080
Speaker 1: has a terminal in front of them. All right, I

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00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,119
Speaker 1: just want to point out and that's that is a

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00:26:39,200 --> 00:26:41,879
Speaker 1: very cool thing. With map go on the Bloomberg terminal

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00:26:41,920 --> 00:26:44,399
Speaker 1: you can also track all the ships. And by the way,

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00:26:44,440 --> 00:26:46,680
Speaker 1: I follow us very closely as well, because I want

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00:26:46,760 --> 00:26:50,160
Speaker 1: to I need to ship a car, hope. I hope

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00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,560
Speaker 1: to ship a car and a motorcycle, um and some

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00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:56,239
Speaker 1: motorcycles to the US, but it's so expensive to get

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00:26:56,280 --> 00:27:01,160
Speaker 1: a container right now, especially for privacy calls. Unbelievable. Please

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Speaker 1: do all right, Constance always great talking to you. Thanks

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00:27:03,520 --> 00:27:07,119
Speaker 1: so much for joining us. Constance Hunter talking to us

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Speaker 1: about the Delta derail. This is Bloomberg. Thanks for listening

495
00:27:13,480 --> 00:27:16,920
Speaker 1: to the Bloomberg Markets podcast. You can subscribe and listen

496
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:21,240
Speaker 1: to interviews with Apple Podcasts or whatever podcast platform you prefer.

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00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:26,199
Speaker 1: I'm Matt Miller. I'm on Twitter at Matt Miller. Put

498
00:27:26,280 --> 00:27:28,840
Speaker 1: on fall Sweeney. I'm on Twitter at pt Sweeney before

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00:27:28,880 --> 00:27:31,680
Speaker 1: the podcast. You can always catch us worldwide at Bloomberg

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Speaker 1: Radio