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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Boomberg Law Show. I'm June Grosso. From

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Speaker 1: Donald Trump's verdicts totally more than half a billion dollars

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Speaker 1: to his first criminal trial, to a Supreme Court appeal,

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Speaker 1: We'll tell you where it all stands. And what were

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Speaker 1: two Supreme Court justices from opposite sides of the ideological

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Speaker 1: divide talking about during a joint appearance at the National

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Speaker 1: Governors Association.

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Speaker 2: Biden and his deranged prosecutors, attorney generals, local district attorneys

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Speaker 2: are trying to take away my liberty. They're trying to

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Speaker 2: take it away. They're trying to steal my liberty. If

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Speaker 2: there's any shred of justice left, they will fail and

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Speaker 2: we will win. And so far we're doing very nicely.

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Speaker 1: Thank you well. I suppose what very nicely means is

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Speaker 1: up for interpretation. In point of fact, Donald Trump will

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Speaker 1: be the first president to be tried on criminal charges

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Speaker 1: come March twenty fifth in Manhattan. He owes more than

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Speaker 1: half a billion dollars for two civil jury verdicts against him,

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Speaker 1: and he's facing criminal trials in federal courts in Florida

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Speaker 1: and DC and state court in Georgia. And the clock

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Speaker 1: is ticking on those civil judgments. Trump has less than

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Speaker 1: thirty days to put up the cash or post a

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Speaker 1: bond before he can appeal. New York Attorney General Letitia

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Speaker 1: James is already threatening to seize his assets if he

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Speaker 1: doesn't come up with the nearly four hundred and sixty

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Speaker 1: five million dollars for the fine plus interest in the

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Speaker 1: state's case against him over his fraudulent asset valuations.

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Speaker 3: If he does not have funds to pay off the judgment,

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Speaker 3: then we will seek, you know, judgment enforcement mechanisms in court,

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Speaker 3: and we will ask the judge to seize his assets.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is Dave Ahrenberg, Palm Beach County State Attorney Dave.

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Speaker 1: Every day Trump delays paying New York's verdict against him,

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Speaker 1: that huge fine is increased by more than a high

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Speaker 1: hundred thousand dollars, and ag Letitia James has been trolling

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Speaker 1: Trump on X posting the interest payments. I mean, is

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Speaker 1: that what an attorney general representing a state should be doing,

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Speaker 1: trolling an ex president?

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Speaker 4: Well, I wouldn't be doing it, but we're living in

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Speaker 4: unique times. We don't see a former president ever being

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Speaker 4: hit with such a large civil fine. We don't see

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Speaker 4: one on trial in four different criminal cases, or someone

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Speaker 4: act the way Donald Trump does, where he is the

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Speaker 4: king of trolls. So you can see why after being

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Speaker 4: abused verbally for so long that the Attorney General's like,

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Speaker 4: all right, I've waited, I've been silent. Now I get

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Speaker 4: a little payback. But yeah, I wouldn't do it. It's not unethical, though,

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Speaker 4: I mean, I think it's worse when you campaign about

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Speaker 4: going after Donald Trump. That's one area where I think

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Speaker 4: he had a legitimate argument. You shouldn't be talking about

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Speaker 4: who you're going to target after you get elected. But

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Speaker 4: as far as taking a victory lap afterwards, yeah, it's fine.

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Speaker 1: He's filed a notice of appeal, though we don't know

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Speaker 1: what the grounds are, and so in less than thirty days,

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Speaker 1: ta'll have to post the amount of the judgment plus

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Speaker 1: interest plus ten percent with cash or a bond. And

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Speaker 1: he's also appealing the eighty three point three million dollar

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Speaker 1: Egene Carol defamation judgment. So I guess we'll know soon

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Speaker 1: whether he has the cash or not.

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Speaker 4: We will see. He said he's about four hundred million

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Speaker 4: in liquidity. But this is where the rubber meets the road.

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Speaker 4: He's going to have to put up all this EXU

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Speaker 4: money to get the bond to be able to appeal,

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Speaker 4: and he says he's going to appeal. So these are

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Speaker 4: two massive judgments, and that's why we're going to see

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Speaker 4: where he gets the money. Now he has this true

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Speaker 4: social public offering where he's supposed to get four billion dollars.

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Speaker 4: I don't believe that's liquid going his way, so I

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Speaker 4: think this is a real test. Also, we'll see who

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Speaker 4: his real friends are. Hopefully none of this stuff comes

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Speaker 4: from foreign sources.

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Speaker 1: Do you think he has any good appellate issue for

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Speaker 1: the New York Civil fraud trial.

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Speaker 4: The only chance I think he has is to convince

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Speaker 4: the Appellate Corps that the amount was just too high,

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Speaker 4: and we've seen that in many other cases where they

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Speaker 4: reduced the judgment. But as far as overturning the verdict,

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Speaker 4: I think his chances are slim. And not judging gron

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Speaker 4: gave a lot of information in his opinion as to

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Speaker 4: why he found some witnesses credible and others not credible,

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Speaker 4: and there's a lot of deference that goes to the FactFinder,

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Speaker 4: the trier of fact, who was the judge in this case,

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Speaker 4: and judgement garn seemed to give Trump a lot of leeway,

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Speaker 4: like allowing him to give part of the closing argument

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Speaker 4: and then sitting idly by while Trump blasted him verbally

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Speaker 4: attacked him. I don't know any other defendant who would

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Speaker 4: get that kind of deference, and because of that, I

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Speaker 4: think his decision is bulletproof, even if it may get

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Speaker 4: reduced somewhat on appeal as.

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Speaker 1: Far as the eighty three point three million dollar judgment.

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Speaker 1: Last week, he asked a judge to delay execution of

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Speaker 1: the judge and spare him from posting an appeals bond

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Speaker 1: until thirty days after he files several post trial motions,

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Speaker 1: and Carol has until Thursday to respond. I mean, is

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Speaker 1: the judge likely to grant that? This is Judge Caplan,

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Speaker 1: who is incredibly strict during the trial, and I doubt

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Speaker 1: that any of Trump's post trial motions are going to

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Speaker 1: farewell with him.

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Speaker 4: Judge Kaplan hasn't shown much forbearance for the former president.

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Speaker 4: In fact, he's the one who made the jury anonymous

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Speaker 4: and took great pains to protect their identity because he

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Speaker 4: was worried the way that Trump's words could incite violence.

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Speaker 4: I mean, he treated Trump like a mafia boss, So

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Speaker 4: I don't expect him to bend over backwards to allow

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Speaker 4: him more time to pay.

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Speaker 1: Let's go now to what will be at the first

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Speaker 1: criminal trial, the Manhattan DA's hush money payments trial. DA

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Speaker 1: Alvin Bragg is asking for a limited gag order against

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Speaker 1: Trump to protect jurors and witnesses and prosecutors other than

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Speaker 1: the DA himself, citing his long standing history of attacking witnesses, investigators, prosecutors, judges,

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Speaker 1: and others involved in legal proceedings against him. Do you

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Speaker 1: think that the judge will grant this?

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Speaker 5: I do.

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Speaker 4: He has a roadmap, because the DC Circuit Court of

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Speaker 4: Appeals granted Jack Smith's motion and affirmed it from the

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Speaker 4: trial court to have this kind of gag order. This

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Speaker 4: gag order requested by Alvin Bragg tracks the gag order

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Speaker 4: that has been affirmed by the DC Circuit Court of Appeals.

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Speaker 4: That's the one with Judge Chutkin. So yes, and there's

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Speaker 4: reason for it. Alvin Bragg has been the subject of

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Speaker 4: relentless racial epithets and other death threats his way since

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump decided to lob the verbal grenades at him.

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Speaker 4: And we have seen before that some of his supporters

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Speaker 4: Trump supporters will go extra and threadn and even shoot

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Speaker 4: up the FBI headquarters in Cincinnati, or bring guns outside

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Speaker 4: Barack Obama's house in Georgetown after Trump docks them or

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Speaker 4: January sixth. So, yes, there are plenty of grounds to

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Speaker 4: impose this partial gag art because as a criminal defendant,

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Speaker 4: you don't have the same First Amendment free speech rights

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Speaker 4: as the rest of us.

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Speaker 6: Do.

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Speaker 1: Talk a little bit more about that because whenever this

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Speaker 1: comes up, Trump says, they're constraining my First Amendment rights.

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Speaker 1: And I'm a candidate for president, I have the right

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Speaker 1: to speak.

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Speaker 4: But he's still a criminal defendant. And criminal defendants all

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Speaker 4: the time when they have pre trial release or told

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Speaker 4: do not speak to the witnesses in this case, do

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Speaker 4: not speak to the victim. You can't use alcohol or drugs.

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Speaker 4: There's all these limitations that the court puts on you.

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Speaker 4: So the fact that Trump is a former president does

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Speaker 4: not mean he's also not subject to the same normal

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Speaker 4: limitations as any other defendant. And here when there's a

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Speaker 4: track record of inciting violence through your words, Yeah, this

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Speaker 4: is a limited measure to remedy this problem. And that

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Speaker 4: is a partial gag order, not a full one. He

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Speaker 4: can still campaign for president. He can still attack the judge,

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Speaker 4: he can attack the prosecutor. He just can't attack witnesses

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Speaker 4: and jurors and other court personnel who didn't sign up

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Speaker 4: for any of the stuff.

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Speaker 1: As you mentioned, Judge Kaplan a secret jury. The jurors

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Speaker 1: weren't even allowed to tell each other their names, but

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Speaker 1: that was in federal court. New York state doesn't allow

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Speaker 1: that total anonymity. Trump and his legal team are allowed

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Speaker 1: to know the jurors' names, but Bragg has asked that

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Speaker 1: Trump be barred from publicly revealing the juror's identities and

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Speaker 1: that their addresses be kept secret even from the.

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Speaker 4: Defense, because he doesn't want threats of violence or people

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Speaker 4: to show up at their house or to dock them,

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Speaker 4: or to what's called swatting them, where you send the

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Speaker 4: swat team because you claim that there is a hasa

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Speaker 4: situation at someone's house and the swat team shows up

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Speaker 4: and a tragedy can ensue. This has been going on

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Speaker 4: to individuals who' be involved in the prosecutions of Donald Trump,

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Speaker 4: so you can see why the judge wants to protect

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Speaker 4: the identity and under New York law, which is different

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Speaker 4: than the federal system. New York law requires that the

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Speaker 4: defendant be able to know the names of the jury,

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Speaker 4: but doesn't require him to know the addresses or to

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Speaker 4: be allowed to disseminate their information. And you know, June,

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Speaker 4: we should never become numb to the fact that the

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Speaker 4: leading candidate for president on the Republican side has posed

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Speaker 4: a real, incredible threat through his words to prosecutors, judges, witnesses,

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Speaker 4: and potential jurors. That is something we should never grow

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Speaker 4: accustomed to.

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Speaker 1: Interesting is that Michael Cohen is one of the witnesses.

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Speaker 1: So now if the judge issues this gag order against Trump,

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Speaker 1: you'll have Michael Cohen being able to talk in public

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Speaker 1: and Trump not being able to respond.

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Speaker 4: Trump can attack the judge and the prosecutor, but he

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Speaker 4: would not be allowed to intimidate witnesses. And should he

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Speaker 4: Should he be allowed to threaten witnesses in the criminal

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Speaker 4: case against them? I think a question answers itself, and yes,

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Speaker 4: So that means Michael Cohen could conceivably go after Trump verbally.

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Speaker 4: But you know, them's the breaks when you're a criminal defendant.

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Speaker 1: Because we know Michael Cohen will he's been talking NonStop

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Speaker 1: about Trump since he got out of prison as a

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Speaker 1: podcast about it.

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Speaker 4: True True, And there's a motion by Trump's legal team

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Speaker 4: to keep Michael Cohen from testifying.

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Speaker 1: That boggles my mind. They want to keep him from

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Speaker 1: testifying because they say he's a liar.

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Speaker 4: Right well, if that were the criteria for determining whether

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Speaker 4: someone's allowed to testify, we prosecutors would never have any

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Speaker 4: witnesses in any of our cases because when you make

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Speaker 4: deals with co defendants, they're often liars. You don't have

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Speaker 4: choir boys who are hanging around with criminals, right mother,

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Speaker 4: Teres say, ain't walking through that door. See has someone

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Speaker 4: like Michael Cohen who's I say, reformed and he's tried

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Speaker 4: to do the right thing, but he lied. He lied

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Speaker 4: to protect Donald Trump. And now Trump ironically is saying, well,

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Speaker 4: because he'd lied to protect me, now you cannot believe

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Speaker 4: anything he says, and he shouldn't be allowed to testify.

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Speaker 4: But that's not how it works. What's going to happen

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Speaker 4: is the judge will certainly, not almost certainly, certainly allow

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Speaker 4: Cohen to testify. He's the key witness and will be

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Speaker 4: up to the jury to determine his credibility.

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Speaker 1: Prosecutors are asking the judge to allow them to introduce

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Speaker 1: that infamous Access Hollywood tape, as well as three public

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Speaker 1: allegations of sexual assault made against Trump after the recording

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Speaker 1: was released. Trump's lawyers say it's inflammatory and prejudicial, and

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Speaker 1: I tend to agree. What do you think is going

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Speaker 1: to happen there?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, I agree. I think admitting the Access Hollywood tape

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Speaker 4: would be more prejudicial than probative, meaning it would inflame

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Speaker 4: jurors more than it would provide evidence they actually did this.

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Speaker 4: This is about the falsification of business records. This is

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Speaker 4: about trying to pay a porn star hush money to

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Speaker 4: get elected, to be able to win an election, and

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Speaker 4: suppressed information from the public. So I don't see how

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Speaker 4: the Access Hollywood tape or other allegations of sexual assault

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Speaker 4: after the tape was released, would be pertinent here, or

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Speaker 4: at least be enough to be admitted, because it would

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Speaker 4: inflame jurors, I think unnecessarily, And that's from a prosecutor.

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Speaker 4: I can't believe I'm taking the side of the defense.

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Speaker 4: You have to every once in a while, Well, you

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Speaker 4: know why you do it is because if you introduce

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Speaker 4: evidence that you shouldn't have, If the judge allows it,

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Speaker 4: then the case could be overturned on appeal. And there's

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Speaker 4: nothing worse for prosecutors than to be forced to do

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Speaker 4: it all over again because of an error in the

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Speaker 4: original trial.

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Speaker 1: Coming up next, Trump is invoking presidential immunity again. I'm

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Speaker 1: June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. On March twenty fifth,

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Speaker 1: jury's election will start in Manhattan. In the first criminal

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Speaker 1: trial of a former president, Donald Trump has pleaded not

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Speaker 1: guilty to thirty four counts of falsifying business records to

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Speaker 1: conceal the true nature of one hundred and thirty thousand

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Speaker 1: dollars in payments he directed his then lawyer, Michael Cohen

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Speaker 1: to make to poorn star Stormy Daniels. Both sides have

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Speaker 1: filed motions with the judge to limit the evidence to

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Speaker 1: be introduced at the trial. I've been talking to Palm

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Speaker 1: Beach County State Attorney Dave Ahrenberg. Manhattan DA Alvin Bragg

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Speaker 1: is casting Trump's actions as election interference, which is what

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Speaker 1: we normally hear from Trump, and argue that the cover

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Speaker 1: up led to the withholding of important information from voters

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Speaker 1: shortly before they headed to the polls. And Trump's lawyers

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Speaker 1: asked that the prosecutors be barred from asserting that, saying

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Speaker 1: it's irrelevant, which is just everything upside down. Dave, explain

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Speaker 1: why Bragg is doing this, you.

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Speaker 4: See, June to take this into a felony because right

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Speaker 4: now it's just false fication of business records. You have

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Speaker 4: to show that the falsification of business records led to

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Speaker 4: conceal another crime. And what crime is it? I'm Bragg

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Speaker 4: hasn't said so yet specifically, although he doesn't have to yet,

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Speaker 4: but it looks like he's going to make a case

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Speaker 4: that the falsification of business records helped conceal a campaign

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Speaker 4: finance violation. Then the question is can you piggyback onto

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Speaker 4: a federal law. Remember these are state prosecutors, and campaign

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Speaker 4: finance rules in this case are federal laws because Trump

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Speaker 4: was running for president. So that's why a lot of

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Speaker 4: us think this is perhaps not the easiest case for prosecutors.

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Speaker 4: But as far as weather Bragg should be allowed to

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Speaker 4: bring up that evidence that the falsification of business records

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Speaker 4: then was used to conceal a campaign finance crime, well, yeah,

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Speaker 4: that's a whole that's the purpose, that's the whole point

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Speaker 4: of this case, because you got to show that there's

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Speaker 4: a felony here or else. It's just a bunch of misdemeanors.

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Speaker 1: Great explanation, Dave. Let's turn to jury selection, which is

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Speaker 1: starting on March twenty fifth, and in New York, the

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Speaker 1: lawyers are allowed to question the juris's. Jury selection can

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Speaker 1: go on for quite a while. How hard is it

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Speaker 1: going to be to get a jury in this case.

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Speaker 4: I think you can get a jury in any high

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Speaker 4: profile case, because the standard is not whether people have

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Speaker 4: heard about the case. It's where they can set their

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Speaker 4: biases aside and just follow the evidence and the law.

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Speaker 4: And we've seen that over and over again in other

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Speaker 4: Trump cases. Well, there's one guy in the first Eging

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Speaker 4: Carroll case who was a devote of a far right

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Speaker 4: wing podcaster, and yet he voted with the unanimous jury

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Speaker 4: to find Trump libel. So I believe in the jury

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Speaker 4: system you just have to be able to vet the

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Speaker 4: jurors to make sure there's no wolf in sheep's clothing,

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Speaker 4: no trojan horse in there who's going in there pretending

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Speaker 4: to say the right things and then will stick it

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Speaker 4: to the state because they love Trump.

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Speaker 1: Unlike other trials where he flits in and out when

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Speaker 1: he pleases, He's going to have to be there every day,

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Speaker 1: sitting before a judge that he's called a Trump hating

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Speaker 1: judge with a family full of Trump haters.

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Speaker 4: Never a good idea to bad mouth the person who's

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Speaker 4: wearing the black robes and has that gavel. And also

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Speaker 4: you have to stand up when they come into the room.

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Speaker 4: As a prosecutor, no one has a stand up for us.

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Speaker 4: We don't get to wear the black robes. And the

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Speaker 4: gavel is just attached to our wall as part of

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Speaker 4: a path. That's it.

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Speaker 1: So now let's go to your state of Florida. There's

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Speaker 1: a hearing Friday before Judge Aileen Cannon in the Classified

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Speaker 1: Document's case, and supposedly it's about whether she's going to

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Speaker 1: keep the May twentieth trial date. Does that seem almost

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Speaker 1: impossible at this point?

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Speaker 4: Impossible? She needs to move it now because longer she waits,

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Speaker 4: the harder will be for the case that will, I believe,

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Speaker 4: go before the election. The DC came in front of

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Speaker 4: Judge Chuckin to be reset for that time. If Judge

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Speaker 4: Canon decides to keep that date. In some belief that

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Speaker 4: the trial could go then, which has no chance of going.

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Speaker 4: Then then that could prevent actual justice of being done.

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Speaker 4: The trial that's most likely to go, the federal trial,

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Speaker 4: the DC election interference case, from going, because that whole

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Speaker 4: block will be clogged up by a trial that won't

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Speaker 4: even happen.

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Speaker 1: Some have said that that is the intent of Judge Canon.

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Speaker 4: That would be nefarious, that would be wrong, that would

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Speaker 4: show bias, and I'm not willing to believe that yet.

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Speaker 1: Now CNN was reporting that Trump plans to use Judge

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Speaker 1: Cannon to block Judge Chuckkin because that's the judge that

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Speaker 1: he fears the most, and so as to move the

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Speaker 1: Florida case to July so that will prevent Judge Chuckin

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Speaker 1: from setting a trial date before then. She's still waiting

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Speaker 1: for the Supreme Court to decide whether to take Trump's

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Speaker 1: appeal on the question of president immunity from prosecution, and

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Speaker 1: then the time will be eaten up and there'll be

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Speaker 1: no chance for the DC case of election interference to

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Speaker 1: be heard before the election.

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Speaker 4: It would look so bad if he gets his way

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Speaker 4: with that, they would look like they're in cahoots. Jack

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Speaker 4: Smith does have a say in this and so I

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Speaker 4: believe that the DC trial will go. It will go

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Speaker 4: before the election, and I don't believe those kind of

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Speaker 4: shenanigans you mentioned June will happen. But maybe I'm being

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Speaker 4: the Pollyanna here, because look, all eyes are on Judge Kennon.

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Speaker 4: She got repudiated last year when she got involved in

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Speaker 4: the issue of the Special Master and the investigation of

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Speaker 4: Donald Trump over the mar Lago documents. She butted into

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Speaker 4: that case and not only was reversed by the conservative

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Speaker 4: Eleventh Circuits Court of Appeals, but was publicly humiliated. And

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Speaker 4: I thought because of that she'd be chasened and would

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Speaker 4: try not to stick her neck out again. So we'll

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Speaker 4: see soon enough.

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Speaker 1: So you thought she would be chasing but apparently she

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Speaker 1: wasn't at one point, and we had talked about this

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Speaker 1: before that Jack Smith is trying to protect witness in

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Speaker 1: the case. They've opposed an attempt by Trump's lawyers to

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Speaker 1: include the names of about twenty four potential witnesses in

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Speaker 1: a public filing, and Cannon initially sided with Trump's attorneys

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Speaker 1: to unseal the identities, and then Smith cited clear error.

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Speaker 1: So now that may be something that comes up on Friday.

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Speaker 7: Yeah.

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Speaker 4: See, June, this is why you're so good at what

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Speaker 4: you do. Because here I am trying to say, well,

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Speaker 4: maybe we shouldn't jump to conclusions about Judge Cannon. She's

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Speaker 4: been perhaps chastened, and yet you give me all these

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Speaker 4: examples of her not being chasened, of her doing the

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Speaker 4: same thing.

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Speaker 1: I have another one. I have another one.

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Speaker 4: It's hard to take because I do believe in the

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Speaker 4: Federal judiciary, and as a prosecutor, I don't like to

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Speaker 4: bad mouth federal judges or any judge, but it is

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Speaker 4: hard to say nice things about her rulings. I think

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Speaker 4: that the Eleventh Circuit set at all when they said

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Speaker 4: that she is going way outside any rationale and they

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Speaker 4: pulled her off the case. Well, we'll see if jack

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Speaker 4: Smith asked to get her removed from the case again.

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Speaker 4: And the more she keeps doing stuff like this, maybe

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Speaker 4: that's going to push Jacksmith beyond the breaking point.

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Speaker 1: If she says she's going to go forward with releasing

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Speaker 1: the names of these witnesses, Smith could appeal that to

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Speaker 1: the Eleventh Circuit and asks for the case to be

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Speaker 1: reassigned to a different judge, which has happened in the

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Speaker 1: Eleventh Circuit.

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Speaker 4: Correct. The nuclear button is jack Smith asking for a

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Speaker 4: new judge. I think for certain he will appeal that

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Speaker 4: decision if she does not change her mind. But then

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Speaker 4: the question is, does Jack Smith actually tell the court

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Speaker 4: that she is beyond hope, that she is biased and

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Speaker 4: she needs to be removed. That's the nuclear button. It

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Speaker 4: has not been pressed yet, but at some point Jacks

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Speaker 4: Smith's going to have to do it, perhaps if she

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Speaker 4: continues to make rulings like this.

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Speaker 1: She is the only judge that Trump does not criticize

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Speaker 1: of all the judges in his cases. So that says something, Well.

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Speaker 4: He hasn't criticized judge McAfee either.

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Speaker 1: In full right, you're right, I stand corrected.

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Speaker 4: Judge McAfee came from the Federalist Society. I gotta say,

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Speaker 4: I think he's doing a good job in that case.

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Speaker 4: I have no bones to pick with him. And you know,

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Speaker 4: he's a young guy. He's only like thirty five. He

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Speaker 4: looks a lot older. He's a lot wiser as Gravitas.

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Speaker 4: That's the few benefits I guess of a receiving hairline.

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Speaker 1: He's very careful about what he's doing. We'll get to

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Speaker 1: Georgia in a minute. Trump has asked the judge, Judge Cannon,

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Speaker 1: to toss out the criminal charges with a host of

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Speaker 1: different reasons. One is presidential immunity, which he keeps going for. Quote,

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Speaker 1: President Trump departed the White House prior to twelve pm

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Speaker 1: on January twenty of twenty twenty one, and so he

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Speaker 1: made these decisions concerning the documents as commander in chief.

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Speaker 1: That doesn't address his keeping the records away from the

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Speaker 1: FBI and instructing other people to But this immunity argument,

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Speaker 1: they're beating it to death.

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Speaker 4: It's a delay tactic. He has zero chance of prevailing

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Speaker 4: on that. Remember the conduct that issue happened after Trump

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Speaker 4: was president. So you don't get a permanent get out

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Speaker 4: of Joe Freekard by the means of being president once.

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Speaker 4: And it is preposterous to think that if he wanted to,

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Speaker 4: for example, sell those documents to the Iranians for money,

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Speaker 4: that presidential community he could do.

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Speaker 2: So.

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Speaker 4: Treason is treason, and once your president or for president,

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Speaker 4: you don't get immunity from that or any criminal actions

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Speaker 4: related to these documents.

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Speaker 1: He's also going for it. I believe that you know,

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Speaker 1: if he thinks it it's declassified.

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Speaker 4: And yes, he goes back to the Jedi mind trick

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Speaker 4: what where he said that I thought about it being declassified,

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Speaker 4: even though there's no proof whatsoever that he declassified any

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Speaker 4: of these documents. But that's his defense. But I'd be

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Speaker 4: surprised if they actually use that at the trial, if

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Speaker 4: this ever goes to trial, because it's so preposterous, so

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Speaker 4: judge may not even allow him to bring it up.

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Speaker 1: Something else there claiming is selective prosecution, and the prosecutor,

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Speaker 1: Jack Smith, invoked the special counsel Robert Hurr, who declined

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Speaker 1: to prosecute Joe Biden, to show how different the cases are.

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Speaker 4: Yeah, hoist by your own petard. Robert Hurr was used

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Speaker 4: by Donald Trump as a political javelin against Joe Biden.

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Speaker 4: It's like, wow what he said, ha ha. Now Jack

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Speaker 4: Smith is using Robert Hurr against Donald Trump in a court.

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Speaker 4: So one of them is using her in a courtroom,

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Speaker 4: the other one's using her in the court of public opinion.

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Speaker 4: And it just shows you that I think Robert Hurr

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Speaker 4: went too far with his comments. I think that he

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Speaker 4: went beyond what a prosecutor should do, which is why

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Speaker 4: people are still talking about him today.

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Speaker 1: I'm not even going to ask you about this long

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Speaker 1: shot saying that the special counsel was not properly appointed

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Speaker 1: since he was not confirmed by the Senate. I'm going

437
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:34,679
Speaker 1: to let that go, David, Yeah, let it go. So

438
00:22:34,840 --> 00:22:38,959
Speaker 1: now the same day Friday that there's a hearing in

439
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:44,640
Speaker 1: the classified Documents case, there's a hearing in Georgia about

440
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:48,920
Speaker 1: whether Fawnie Willis should be disqualified from prosecuting Trump. Let

441
00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,119
Speaker 1: me just ask you broadly, what's your take on that,

442
00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:55,280
Speaker 1: because to me, it doesn't harm the defendant if she

443
00:22:55,520 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 1: was in this relationship.

444
00:22:57,320 --> 00:23:00,720
Speaker 4: See, this is why this is a self inflicted wound

445
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:03,960
Speaker 4: by Fannie Willis, Because if she and Nathan Wade had

446
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,280
Speaker 4: just said, yeah, we had a relationship and I'm going

447
00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:09,359
Speaker 4: to recuse him from this case from now and just

448
00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,359
Speaker 4: for the appearances of impropriety, I think that would have

449
00:23:12,359 --> 00:23:14,840
Speaker 4: been the end of it. But instead Nathan Wade submitted

450
00:23:14,880 --> 00:23:19,080
Speaker 4: a sworn affidavit to say when the relationship started and

451
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:22,600
Speaker 4: how Fannie Willis reimbursed him for the expenses on the

452
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:26,720
Speaker 4: trips they took, and Fannie Willis then adopted his affidavit

453
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:29,879
Speaker 4: by referring to and adopting it in her filing so

454
00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:32,919
Speaker 4: now we have Fannie Willis and Nathan Wade attesting to

455
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,000
Speaker 4: the court under oath when the relationship occurred, and if

456
00:23:36,040 --> 00:23:38,800
Speaker 4: it can be proven that they lied, then I think

457
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:40,560
Speaker 4: they have to remove from the case and then they

458
00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 4: could face sanctions in the bar. So this didn't have

459
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 4: to get to this point, but it has. And that's

460
00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:48,800
Speaker 4: why I hope they're telling the truth because it will

461
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:50,840
Speaker 4: be not only a bad look for them if they didn't,

462
00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:53,240
Speaker 4: but it damages the case because then it will probably

463
00:23:53,240 --> 00:23:56,199
Speaker 4: get reassigned to someone else, and that other prosecutor from

464
00:23:56,240 --> 00:23:59,439
Speaker 4: another area may not have quite the same interest in

465
00:23:59,480 --> 00:24:01,440
Speaker 4: pursuing the matter as Fannie Willis does.

466
00:24:01,960 --> 00:24:04,160
Speaker 1: What's the standard for the judge.

467
00:24:03,920 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 4: Well, you have to show an actual conflict, not just

468
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:11,040
Speaker 4: a perceived one. But because they both submitted these documents,

469
00:24:11,080 --> 00:24:13,480
Speaker 4: the affidavit and then her reply to the court where

470
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:17,400
Speaker 4: they said the relationship began after he was hired and

471
00:24:17,640 --> 00:24:21,120
Speaker 4: I reimbursed him for half of the expenses, if they

472
00:24:21,160 --> 00:24:23,360
Speaker 4: are shown to have lied to the court, it could

473
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,440
Speaker 4: be a huge deal. And that's why it's more than

474
00:24:26,480 --> 00:24:28,560
Speaker 4: just whether it's a conflict. This is just taken up

475
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 4: to a different level because now it's whether they were

476
00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:31,760
Speaker 4: being honest with the court.

477
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:36,119
Speaker 1: Those arguments on Friday will be very interesting. Always a

478
00:24:36,119 --> 00:24:38,680
Speaker 1: pleasure to have you on, Dave, and thanks for coming

479
00:24:38,680 --> 00:24:41,960
Speaker 1: into our studios here in New York. That's Dave Ehrenberg,

480
00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:44,800
Speaker 1: Palm Beach County State Attorney. Coming up next on the

481
00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:48,080
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Law Show. We'll tell you what two Supreme Court

482
00:24:48,359 --> 00:24:53,639
Speaker 1: justices from opposite sides of the ideological spectrum we're talking about.

483
00:24:53,760 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: During a joint appearance at the National Governor's Association, I'm

484
00:24:58,160 --> 00:25:01,919
Speaker 1: June Grosso and you're listening to Bloomberg. Liberal Justice Sonya

485
00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:06,560
Speaker 1: Soto Mayor and conservative Justice Amy Coney Barrett appeared on

486
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,520
Speaker 1: stage side by side at the National Governors Association in

487
00:25:10,640 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: DC last Friday. It was part of a bypart as

488
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:17,919
Speaker 1: an initiative entitled Disagree Better to get leaders in the

489
00:25:17,960 --> 00:25:22,120
Speaker 1: public to debate issues of concern with civility and respect

490
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,800
Speaker 1: for each other. And both women talked about the camaraderie

491
00:25:25,840 --> 00:25:29,879
Speaker 1: among the justices, but there was another message that the

492
00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,240
Speaker 1: justices are not beholden to the presidents who appointed them.

493
00:25:34,760 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 6: And remember, thankfully for US, presidents don't last that long, right,

494
00:25:39,920 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 6: there's eight years, so for us to be behold into

495
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:45,080
Speaker 6: one of them is a little crazy, right, Huh.

496
00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 7: The life tenure does insulate us from politics, and so

497
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 7: that it's not just that we're not Obama judges and

498
00:25:52,760 --> 00:25:56,359
Speaker 7: Trump judges, but we're also not Democratic judges or Republican judges.

499
00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,399
Speaker 7: We don't sit on opposite sides of an aisle. We

500
00:25:58,480 --> 00:25:59,920
Speaker 7: all wear the same color black.

501
00:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,800
Speaker 1: We don't have red robes and blue robes joining me,

502
00:26:03,920 --> 00:26:07,840
Speaker 1: is constitutional law expert David Super, a professor at Georgetown

503
00:26:07,920 --> 00:26:10,840
Speaker 1: Law School. So was the point to tell the country

504
00:26:10,840 --> 00:26:14,480
Speaker 1: that they get along and play well together or something else.

505
00:26:15,160 --> 00:26:19,840
Speaker 5: The point is to salvage the Supreme Court as a

506
00:26:20,520 --> 00:26:25,199
Speaker 5: unifying institution, an institution relevant to all of us, and

507
00:26:25,359 --> 00:26:28,560
Speaker 5: participating in that effort was one of the few things

508
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 5: that Justice Soda Mayor can do to make herself relevant,

509
00:26:33,240 --> 00:26:35,000
Speaker 5: given how heavily outvoted she is.

510
00:26:35,320 --> 00:26:38,119
Speaker 1: The biggest message to me was that they're not beholden

511
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:42,120
Speaker 1: to the presidents that appointed them or to the president's party.

512
00:26:42,840 --> 00:26:47,360
Speaker 1: Amy Cony Barrett said, we're not Obama judges or Trump judges,

513
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,840
Speaker 1: or Democratic judges or Republican judges. You know, we wear

514
00:26:50,880 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: the same color robe. Et cetera, et cetera. But she

515
00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:57,879
Speaker 1: left out the fact that they are conservative judges and

516
00:26:58,040 --> 00:26:58,880
Speaker 1: liberal judges.

517
00:26:59,080 --> 00:27:02,000
Speaker 5: This is damage control for a court whose image has

518
00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 5: been badly harmed. You saw the same sort of thing

519
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 5: in the early two thousands after bush Y Gore and

520
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:14,800
Speaker 5: some of the Democratic justices then after several months had passed,

521
00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:18,840
Speaker 5: started giving speeches that the court works well together and

522
00:27:18,880 --> 00:27:21,639
Speaker 5: people should still respect the court. And I think after

523
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,680
Speaker 5: the damage that Dobbs and grun and some of these

524
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:30,359
Speaker 5: other high profile cases, the affermative Action case have done

525
00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:34,360
Speaker 5: to the image of a court as an impartial finder

526
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:37,879
Speaker 5: of legal truth, that they feel some need to do this.

527
00:27:38,280 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 5: Chief Justice Roberts has been doing it for a long time,

528
00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,680
Speaker 5: and I suspect he's encourage other justices to join in.

529
00:27:45,480 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: Justice Barrett had some numbers about how many cases they

530
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:52,800
Speaker 1: agree on and how few six to three decisions there are,

531
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:57,120
Speaker 1: but she didn't explain that those six to three decisions

532
00:27:57,240 --> 00:28:02,120
Speaker 1: are on the hot button issues like abortion, guns, and climate.

533
00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:06,480
Speaker 1: The ones that are unanimous are usually cases that no

534
00:28:06,480 --> 00:28:07,520
Speaker 1: one's paying attention to.

535
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:11,439
Speaker 5: Yeah, the Supreme Court stock that has always included a

536
00:28:11,480 --> 00:28:16,440
Speaker 5: lot of very routine cases where there's no particular political valence,

537
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:20,520
Speaker 5: and telling me whether someone is a liberal or a

538
00:28:20,560 --> 00:28:23,800
Speaker 5: conservative provides almost no guidance as to how they'll vote

539
00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:28,000
Speaker 5: on those. The question is on cases that are contested,

540
00:28:28,600 --> 00:28:31,080
Speaker 5: do they split sixty three? And is it always the

541
00:28:31,119 --> 00:28:33,760
Speaker 5: same six and always the same three? And increasingly the

542
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,480
Speaker 5: answer to both those questions is yes.

543
00:28:36,000 --> 00:28:38,480
Speaker 1: They You know, they said everyone gets along. They go

544
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:42,120
Speaker 1: to dinners at each other's houses and movie nights and

545
00:28:42,160 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: all this stuff. But I remember after the leak draft

546
00:28:45,480 --> 00:28:51,360
Speaker 1: of the Dobbs decision, Justice Thomas complained about the deterioration

547
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 1: in the camaraderie at the Court, and he talked about

548
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 1: the good old days when RBG was on the Court

549
00:28:59,640 --> 00:29:02,280
Speaker 1: and said, we may have been a dysfunctional family, but

550
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,400
Speaker 1: we were a family. So two different pictures.

551
00:29:05,440 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 5: But does it matter, Well, these are nine human beings.

552
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:15,480
Speaker 5: They're also the highest court in the land, and those

553
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:19,360
Speaker 5: are separate questions. I hope the nine human beings have

554
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:22,800
Speaker 5: a good life and are enjoying one another's company, but

555
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:25,960
Speaker 5: that doesn't really answer the question of how the nation's

556
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,360
Speaker 5: affairs are being decided by them.

557
00:29:28,800 --> 00:29:32,520
Speaker 1: This year, you mentioned Bush v. Gore, some of the

558
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:37,800
Speaker 1: decisions coming up about the twenty twenty four election. Do

559
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,760
Speaker 1: you think that they could be as controversial as Bush v.

560
00:29:41,920 --> 00:29:42,160
Speaker 4: Gore.

561
00:29:43,120 --> 00:29:46,760
Speaker 5: No, I don't think so. Bush v. Gore took an

562
00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:49,680
Speaker 5: election that I think most people knew was won by

563
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:53,320
Speaker 5: Al Gore and switched it after the fact. The question

564
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:59,680
Speaker 5: here is whether mister Trump is on the ballot, and frankly,

565
00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:04,080
Speaker 5: if he isn't on the ballot, someone with similar views

566
00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:06,800
Speaker 5: will be on the ballot, possibly someone named Donald J.

567
00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 5: Trump will be on the ballot. So I think the

568
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:15,040
Speaker 5: stakes are much much lower here than in Bushviegor, and

569
00:30:15,160 --> 00:30:17,920
Speaker 5: the politicization much less so as well.

570
00:30:18,080 --> 00:30:21,120
Speaker 1: It's been almost two weeks since all the papers were

571
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:26,600
Speaker 1: submitted in Donald Trump's appeal seeking immunity from criminal charges

572
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:30,440
Speaker 1: stemming from his efforts to overturn his twenty twenty election loss.

573
00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,360
Speaker 1: Should it be taking this long? I mean the Special

574
00:30:34,400 --> 00:30:38,240
Speaker 1: Council emphasized how important it was to do.

575
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,040
Speaker 5: This quickly, well important for whom mister Trump has been

576
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:46,400
Speaker 5: clearly playing to delay. Delay, delay, so that it will

577
00:30:46,640 --> 00:30:50,760
Speaker 5: be tried after the election, or preferably after he's reinaugurated

578
00:30:50,800 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 5: and can pardon himself or ordered DOJ to drop the case.

579
00:30:54,640 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 5: So it may be important for those pursuing the prosecution here.

580
00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:06,760
Speaker 5: But if one believes that presidents shouldn't be tried, then

581
00:31:07,040 --> 00:31:10,360
Speaker 5: delaying the case at the Supreme Court may be a

582
00:31:10,480 --> 00:31:14,920
Speaker 5: way of achieving that end without having the Court come

583
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:18,400
Speaker 5: out for square in favor of broad presidential immunity.

584
00:31:18,640 --> 00:31:21,400
Speaker 1: I mean, all the justice is delaying it, or one

585
00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,640
Speaker 1: justice who's perhaps writing a dissent.

586
00:31:24,280 --> 00:31:28,040
Speaker 5: It can be done either way. The Chief Justice and

587
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 5: and sometimes has imposed a deadline on writing descents. There

588
00:31:33,080 --> 00:31:36,040
Speaker 5: were descents being written in Bushy Goor and Chief Justice

589
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,160
Speaker 5: Renquist imposed a deadline and said that they would be

590
00:31:39,200 --> 00:31:43,400
Speaker 5: publishing their decision at this point without the descents. So

591
00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 5: the Chief Justice currently could do that again. But I

592
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 5: think it's also very possible that a substantial part of

593
00:31:50,400 --> 00:31:53,640
Speaker 5: the court, perhaps the majority of the Court, would prefer

594
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,840
Speaker 5: to not decide this issue and moving slowly maybe a

595
00:31:58,840 --> 00:31:59,840
Speaker 5: way of getting that done.

596
00:32:00,080 --> 00:32:02,480
Speaker 1: I want to talk about respect for the Court, but

597
00:32:02,680 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: not from the general public, but respect from state supreme courts,

598
00:32:07,080 --> 00:32:12,080
Speaker 1: because last week a state Supreme court criticized the Supreme

599
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,600
Speaker 1: Court's decision in Bruin, which was about carrying a handgun

600
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 1: in public. It was the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, and it said,

601
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,479
Speaker 1: we're not so sure about the history that was used

602
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:27,440
Speaker 1: in Heller and Bruin, and we note some serious skepticism

603
00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 1: with how the Supreme Court is handling these Second Amendment cases.

604
00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:34,080
Speaker 1: But we can play amateur historian as well as the

605
00:32:34,080 --> 00:32:39,720
Speaker 1: next guy. The tone there is, I don't know, disrespectful, playful, flippant.

606
00:32:40,320 --> 00:32:44,000
Speaker 1: But the bottom line is they're calling out the Supreme Court.

607
00:32:44,280 --> 00:32:47,880
Speaker 5: They are courts have occasionally done that over time, but

608
00:32:47,960 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 5: I think the Court's Second Amendment tourisprudence invites that more

609
00:32:52,000 --> 00:32:56,600
Speaker 5: than most. There's a line in Heller where Justice Scalia

610
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:01,520
Speaker 5: says that the right to assemble can be exercised alone,

611
00:33:01,640 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 5: and I don't think my dictionary would allow me to

612
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:09,200
Speaker 5: do that. So when you're stretching that fire to get

613
00:33:09,240 --> 00:33:12,040
Speaker 5: to a result, you want you do things that do

614
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:14,680
Speaker 5: invite careful reader skepticism.

615
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:18,320
Speaker 1: And also the Hawaii Supreme Court earlier this month found

616
00:33:18,320 --> 00:33:21,200
Speaker 1: that a man can be prosecuted for carrying a gun

617
00:33:21,240 --> 00:33:25,760
Speaker 1: in public without a permit, another rebuke of the Bruined decision.

618
00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:31,160
Speaker 1: What I'm wondering is are the state supreme courts finding

619
00:33:31,600 --> 00:33:34,719
Speaker 1: that the way that the US Supreme Court is viewed

620
00:33:35,280 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: gives them an opportunity to not follow.

621
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 5: It in narrowly. Yes, this is a Supreme Court that

622
00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 5: is widely regarded as being deeply partisan and has a

623
00:33:48,320 --> 00:33:52,880
Speaker 5: makeup that is wholly unrepresentative of the makeup of the

624
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:56,520
Speaker 5: nation as a whole. A representative court would probably have

625
00:33:56,640 --> 00:34:00,800
Speaker 5: for liberals, for conservatives, and a swing justice, and this

626
00:34:00,880 --> 00:34:05,600
Speaker 5: has six conservatives. So I think the state supreme courts

627
00:34:06,000 --> 00:34:11,840
Speaker 5: feel that their own communities will not judge them harshly

628
00:34:12,000 --> 00:34:14,480
Speaker 5: for saying this sort of thing. That doesn't mean that

629
00:34:14,560 --> 00:34:17,960
Speaker 5: the US Supreme Court can't reverse them, and surely will

630
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:21,040
Speaker 5: if the cases get to it. So this is in

631
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:25,400
Speaker 5: some sense hollow defiance. But historically we haven't had this

632
00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:29,879
Speaker 5: kind of defiance, except in a few eras of particularly

633
00:34:29,960 --> 00:34:33,760
Speaker 5: extreme behavior, such as when the so called Lachner Court

634
00:34:33,880 --> 00:34:38,480
Speaker 5: was striking down economic and social legislation to protect workers

635
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:43,799
Speaker 5: in the Industrial Revolution, or when Chief Justice Tawney went

636
00:34:43,880 --> 00:34:47,719
Speaker 5: after the Missouri Compromise and buttress slavery and the lead

637
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:48,680
Speaker 5: up to the Civil War.

638
00:34:49,280 --> 00:34:53,960
Speaker 1: Even when the Supreme Court ruled on an emergency basis

639
00:34:54,120 --> 00:34:58,880
Speaker 1: that US ICE agents could cross into private land in

640
00:34:58,960 --> 00:35:02,839
Speaker 1: Texas to take down those barbed wire fences. It never

641
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:05,160
Speaker 1: came to a head because I don't think the federal

642
00:35:05,160 --> 00:35:08,319
Speaker 1: agents ever tried to go in after that. But it

643
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,080
Speaker 1: didn't seem like Texas was too concerned about what the

644
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:12,400
Speaker 1: Supreme Court said.

645
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,760
Speaker 5: Either, And that was remarkable because Texas certainly can't say

646
00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:20,840
Speaker 5: that it was abused by liberal Supreme Court. This is

647
00:35:20,840 --> 00:35:25,440
Speaker 5: a very conservative Supreme Court. But I think the Supreme

648
00:35:25,480 --> 00:35:31,440
Speaker 5: Court has become seen as politicized enough that the Texas

649
00:35:31,480 --> 00:35:36,000
Speaker 5: officials felt comfortable attacking a court that is philosophically very

650
00:35:36,080 --> 00:35:36,880
Speaker 5: much in their camp.

651
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:38,799
Speaker 1: Is there anything that would turn this around for the

652
00:35:38,840 --> 00:35:43,360
Speaker 1: Supreme Court where people would start to respect it again?

653
00:35:44,280 --> 00:35:48,160
Speaker 5: Generally a number of important, high profile decisions in which

654
00:35:48,400 --> 00:35:53,719
Speaker 5: justice's votes clearly didn't correspond with their policy preferences, and

655
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:58,720
Speaker 5: we've seen that in the not too distant past. Justice

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00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:03,480
Speaker 5: Kennedy was a very, very very conservative justice, but would

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00:36:03,560 --> 00:36:07,240
Speaker 5: vote for results that were not conservative if he thought

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00:36:07,320 --> 00:36:09,759
Speaker 5: that that's where the law went. Justice Squia did that

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00:36:09,840 --> 00:36:12,920
Speaker 5: on a number of occasions, but there aren't many of

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00:36:12,960 --> 00:36:16,200
Speaker 5: them that do that now, and when they do it,

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00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,719
Speaker 5: it's not very often, And that makes people feel confident

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00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:25,640
Speaker 5: that they're seeing a political force much more than a

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00:36:25,719 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 5: judicial one.

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Speaker 1: It's been a very interesting conversation. Thanks so much. That's

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Speaker 1: Professor David Super of Georgetown Law School. And that's it

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Speaker 1: for this edition of the Bloomberg Law Podcast. Remember you've

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Speaker 1: can always get the latest legal news by subscribing and

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00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,920
Speaker 1: listening to the show on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and at

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Speaker 1: Bloomberg dot com, slash podcast, slash Law. I'm June Grosso

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Speaker 1: and this is Bloomberg