1
00:00:09,039 --> 00:00:12,320
Speaker 1: Well, Hey Angel fans, welcome back to Halo territory. I

2
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 1: am Mike di Giovanna, former La Times Baseball writer and

3
00:00:15,680 --> 00:00:18,840
Speaker 1: host of the show, joined by my regular co host

4
00:00:18,920 --> 00:00:22,680
Speaker 1: Mark Trumbo, the former Angels slugger, and we are honored

5
00:00:22,720 --> 00:00:25,759
Speaker 1: to have a very special guest today, Joe Madden, the

6
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,360
Speaker 1: former Angels manager. Joe, how you doing today?

7
00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:31,720
Speaker 2: I'm doing well. No more special than you, two guys.

8
00:00:32,640 --> 00:00:36,279
Speaker 1: I appreciate that. Appreciate that so. Joe spent thirty years

9
00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,760
Speaker 1: in the Angels organization, including twelve as a big league

10
00:00:39,760 --> 00:00:42,880
Speaker 1: coach from nineteen ninety four to two thousand and five,

11
00:00:43,400 --> 00:00:46,400
Speaker 1: before becoming Tampa Bay's manager in two thousand and six.

12
00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,080
Speaker 1: He spent nine years with the Rays, leading them to

13
00:00:49,120 --> 00:00:52,120
Speaker 1: the Al Pennant in two thousand and eight, before moving

14
00:00:52,159 --> 00:00:54,400
Speaker 1: on to Chicago, where he led the Cubs to the

15
00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: twenty sixteen World Series title, breaking that franchise is one

16
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:03,760
Speaker 1: hundred and eight year championship curse. Joe returned to Anaheim

17
00:01:03,760 --> 00:01:06,000
Speaker 1: in twenty twenty and spent two and a half years

18
00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:09,920
Speaker 1: managing the Angels before being fired on June seventh, twenty

19
00:01:10,000 --> 00:01:13,319
Speaker 1: twenty two. That team was twenty seven and twenty nine

20
00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,319
Speaker 1: at the time. They were actually twenty seven and seventeen

21
00:01:16,360 --> 00:01:20,600
Speaker 1: on May twenty fourth, before losing twelve straight games, and

22
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,520
Speaker 1: they have gone two hundred and fifty four and three

23
00:01:23,640 --> 00:01:27,360
Speaker 1: hundred and thirty eight since, a winning percentage of four

24
00:01:27,360 --> 00:01:30,759
Speaker 1: to twenty nine. So first question, Joe, do you feel

25
00:01:30,760 --> 00:01:33,920
Speaker 1: a little scapegoaded by an organization that has clearly not

26
00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:35,959
Speaker 1: gotten better since you were fired?

27
00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:40,440
Speaker 2: Oh? My, you know, honestly, when I went back there,

28
00:01:42,319 --> 00:01:44,240
Speaker 2: I wanted to go back there. I wanted to go

29
00:01:44,280 --> 00:01:48,120
Speaker 2: back to Anaheim. I had opportunities to go to other organizations,

30
00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,440
Speaker 2: possibly at least an interview for jobs, but I wanted

31
00:01:50,480 --> 00:01:53,400
Speaker 2: to go back to the Angels because I was an Angel.

32
00:01:53,520 --> 00:01:56,320
Speaker 2: I grew up as an Angel nineteen seventy five, signed

33
00:01:56,360 --> 00:02:00,440
Speaker 2: out of the Wichita tournament started the next year uh

34
00:02:01,120 --> 00:02:03,880
Speaker 2: Quat City's I would eventually become a scout and a manager.

35
00:02:04,360 --> 00:02:06,280
Speaker 2: Saw it all the way through, so the ascension of

36
00:02:06,320 --> 00:02:08,799
Speaker 2: the minor leagues, eventually a World Series in two thousand

37
00:02:08,840 --> 00:02:11,720
Speaker 2: and two, and then just a real turnaround of everything.

38
00:02:11,760 --> 00:02:13,160
Speaker 2: So I leave for a couple of years. You know,

39
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:16,440
Speaker 2: I'm very grateful for Tampa Bay, of course Chicago, but

40
00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:19,639
Speaker 2: it's like going to Hazelton High School. I considered the

41
00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,400
Speaker 2: Angels like Hazelton High or even Loafia College. Right, That's

42
00:02:22,440 --> 00:02:24,840
Speaker 2: that's where I came from. That's I was eleventh Street,

43
00:02:25,120 --> 00:02:28,600
Speaker 2: and I wanted to go back there because I knew

44
00:02:28,680 --> 00:02:32,640
Speaker 2: what we were like. I knew the kind of player

45
00:02:32,680 --> 00:02:34,400
Speaker 2: we had, and I thought it was gritty. I thought

46
00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,280
Speaker 2: it was gritty. I thought we were fundamentalists. I thought

47
00:02:36,280 --> 00:02:39,840
Speaker 2: we played the game right and hard. It was nobody

48
00:02:39,840 --> 00:02:42,280
Speaker 2: wanted to play the Angels. Nobody and asked the asked

49
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,400
Speaker 2: the Yankees, these beautiful Yankees of the late nineteen nineties

50
00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:47,320
Speaker 2: and early too, that they did not want to play

51
00:02:47,320 --> 00:02:49,840
Speaker 2: the Angels. So I wanted to bring that style of the

52
00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:51,400
Speaker 2: ball back, and I thought we were. We hit a

53
00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,919
Speaker 2: bad moment. We hit a bad moment. Yes, a lot

54
00:02:54,919 --> 00:02:56,600
Speaker 2: of There was a lot of things dictated to me

55
00:02:56,720 --> 00:03:00,000
Speaker 2: within that twelve game losing Street. You know, that was

56
00:03:00,120 --> 00:03:03,079
Speaker 2: just the way of the baseball world right now. And

57
00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:06,320
Speaker 2: so I'm not blaming it. I'm not playing it on that.

58
00:03:06,400 --> 00:03:08,120
Speaker 2: I'm not blaming it on me. We just didn't we

59
00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:09,840
Speaker 2: didn't pitch well. We didn't do a lot of things

60
00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:14,400
Speaker 2: well for twelve games. If it's stunk. However, I absolutely

61
00:03:14,800 --> 00:03:18,799
Speaker 2: a thousand percent believe have you been left alone, the

62
00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,200
Speaker 2: difference in the record between that moment and what you

63
00:03:22,280 --> 00:03:24,200
Speaker 2: just read off would have been dramatically different.

64
00:03:26,720 --> 00:03:32,600
Speaker 3: Well, it sounds like there was a lot of positives

65
00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,560
Speaker 3: and then there was losing straight as you mentioned, and

66
00:03:35,600 --> 00:03:38,960
Speaker 3: I know that you had, you know, done something to

67
00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,240
Speaker 3: inspire the club, and we're you know, it's been talked about,

68
00:03:43,240 --> 00:03:45,680
Speaker 3: but unable to really showcase that. We're talking about the haircut.

69
00:03:46,400 --> 00:03:50,800
Speaker 3: I guess the question is was there some relief? I know,

70
00:03:51,280 --> 00:03:53,920
Speaker 3: and I'm almost guarantee you are someone who wants to

71
00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,320
Speaker 3: see things through, so being let go in the middle

72
00:03:58,320 --> 00:04:01,920
Speaker 3: of a season is less than ideal. But was there

73
00:04:01,920 --> 00:04:06,520
Speaker 3: any friction with some of the analytics that were coming down?

74
00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:08,320
Speaker 3: I know, I know you've talked about it in the past,

75
00:04:08,360 --> 00:04:12,280
Speaker 3: but as someone who pioneered a lot of this in

76
00:04:12,320 --> 00:04:15,560
Speaker 3: many ways, it seems like maybe certain parts of it

77
00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:19,640
Speaker 3: were overdone. The meetings were going way longer than they should.

78
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,080
Speaker 3: I know as a former player, day to day meetings

79
00:04:23,080 --> 00:04:26,440
Speaker 3: that last twenty minutes or more that you lose the

80
00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,760
Speaker 3: guys immediately. It's very hard to stay in tune and

81
00:04:29,800 --> 00:04:31,680
Speaker 3: it seems like you were getting a lot of pushback,

82
00:04:31,800 --> 00:04:36,719
Speaker 3: So was there any relief you were kind of able

83
00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:38,200
Speaker 3: to separate from that environment.

84
00:04:39,279 --> 00:04:40,800
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, I mean, first of all, you're right. I

85
00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,480
Speaker 2: mean I've been into analytics before analytics became popular, even

86
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:46,800
Speaker 2: in the eighties and nineties. I did my own version

87
00:04:46,839 --> 00:04:49,560
Speaker 2: of it, and when I'm bench coach from Marcel and

88
00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,000
Speaker 2: then TC and and eventually so I had my own

89
00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,320
Speaker 2: version of it up on the board. And actually, if

90
00:04:54,360 --> 00:04:56,919
Speaker 2: I showed you the work I did in that timeframe

91
00:04:57,360 --> 00:05:00,279
Speaker 2: compared to what's being done right now, it's very simil there,

92
00:05:00,279 --> 00:05:03,640
Speaker 2: other than the fact that more sophisticated now because they

93
00:05:03,640 --> 00:05:06,200
Speaker 2: were able to scout every game, So that was the

94
00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:11,000
Speaker 2: primary difference. And again, it's not it's not about receiving analytics.

95
00:05:11,080 --> 00:05:13,120
Speaker 2: I wanted it, and I asked for it, and I

96
00:05:13,160 --> 00:05:16,120
Speaker 2: and I always post questions to try to fine tune

97
00:05:16,160 --> 00:05:18,919
Speaker 2: whatever I got, whether uh, you know, with the rays

98
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,919
Speaker 2: and then eventually with the cubbies, I was, you know,

99
00:05:21,960 --> 00:05:24,400
Speaker 2: I have questions, and yeah, I did question a lot

100
00:05:24,440 --> 00:05:27,200
Speaker 2: of what was given to me, because your eyeballs don't lie,

101
00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:29,920
Speaker 2: and then sometimes they do, you know, and you have to,

102
00:05:29,960 --> 00:05:31,880
Speaker 2: like you make a suggestion, or you make a statement

103
00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:34,120
Speaker 2: and they give you like a piece of paper with

104
00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,960
Speaker 2: some numbers on you. Oh, oh, I was wrong. I

105
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:40,000
Speaker 2: saw it differently so that it works both ways. But

106
00:05:40,040 --> 00:05:43,960
Speaker 2: with the with the angels, Yeah, I just I want stuff.

107
00:05:44,040 --> 00:05:45,960
Speaker 2: I want information. Give it me, all give it to me,

108
00:05:46,000 --> 00:05:47,640
Speaker 2: All give it. Give it to me by three o'clock

109
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:49,480
Speaker 2: and you after. I prefer it. Like in the morning,

110
00:05:49,960 --> 00:05:52,120
Speaker 2: I went the Cubbies, I got a PDF in the

111
00:05:52,160 --> 00:05:54,560
Speaker 2: morning with all the stuff. I would sit in a

112
00:05:54,560 --> 00:05:57,800
Speaker 2: coffee shop on chest it right down from the water Town,

113
00:05:57,920 --> 00:06:01,560
Speaker 2: Chicago little Cuban coffee shop with my headphones and my

114
00:06:01,600 --> 00:06:03,640
Speaker 2: iPad and I would I would do everything. And they

115
00:06:03,640 --> 00:06:08,080
Speaker 2: had they also had an app called Ivy that the

116
00:06:08,160 --> 00:06:10,159
Speaker 2: Cubs had this thing with this I could have. I

117
00:06:10,160 --> 00:06:14,400
Speaker 2: could have previewed any batter, any picture in any game

118
00:06:14,880 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 2: for the last couple of years if I because I

119
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:19,200
Speaker 2: wanted to see when they when they gave me a number,

120
00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:21,479
Speaker 2: a matrix number on a hitter versus a pitcher, I

121
00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:24,040
Speaker 2: wanted to see why, and you know, like the swing,

122
00:06:24,560 --> 00:06:27,960
Speaker 2: plane of his swing, the shape of the pitch. All

123
00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,720
Speaker 2: these different things were important to me, and especially when

124
00:06:30,760 --> 00:06:33,880
Speaker 2: I didn't know anybody with my own eyeballs. So uh, yes,

125
00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:38,360
Speaker 2: they became too intrusive. I don't like people in my office. Shoot,

126
00:06:38,360 --> 00:06:39,719
Speaker 2: even an hour before the game, when I was in

127
00:06:39,720 --> 00:06:42,159
Speaker 2: internim manager there with Billy Vivasi, I told Billy, I said,

128
00:06:42,160 --> 00:06:43,920
Speaker 2: I don't want anybody in the office an hour before

129
00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:47,359
Speaker 2: the game. I'm getting ready. I don't need any more interference.

130
00:06:47,400 --> 00:06:49,680
Speaker 2: I don't need any more information unless I ask for it.

131
00:06:50,040 --> 00:06:52,680
Speaker 2: You've already given me all you got, so that's it.

132
00:06:53,160 --> 00:06:56,080
Speaker 2: So I think with the front offices need to understand

133
00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,640
Speaker 2: now and analytical departments. There's got to be a timeframe

134
00:06:58,680 --> 00:07:01,720
Speaker 2: where you are permitted downstairs to a certain time. I'm

135
00:07:01,760 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 2: saying two thirty maybe three o'clock at the most, and

136
00:07:04,839 --> 00:07:06,839
Speaker 2: then after that go back to your offices, go back,

137
00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,920
Speaker 2: start accumulating more information. You don't belong in a clubhouse.

138
00:07:09,960 --> 00:07:12,240
Speaker 2: You don't belong in a room, a meeting room right

139
00:07:12,240 --> 00:07:14,520
Speaker 2: next to the coaches room. You don't belong there. Sorry,

140
00:07:14,520 --> 00:07:16,920
Speaker 2: but you don't. You have a job to do, and

141
00:07:16,960 --> 00:07:19,240
Speaker 2: we have a job to do. And when everybody does

142
00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:23,160
Speaker 2: their jobs separately and well, good things occur. But when

143
00:07:23,480 --> 00:07:27,960
Speaker 2: groups want to impose on other people's jobs, that's when

144
00:07:28,000 --> 00:07:30,240
Speaker 2: things start to break down. And that's what's going on

145
00:07:30,320 --> 00:07:34,000
Speaker 2: in the modern game right now. Joe.

146
00:07:34,000 --> 00:07:37,560
Speaker 1: It's as angel fans know all too well. It's been

147
00:07:37,600 --> 00:07:41,920
Speaker 1: a decade of futility for them, ten straight losing seasons.

148
00:07:41,960 --> 00:07:47,440
Speaker 1: Now they haven't reached the playoffs since twenty fourteen. Two

149
00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:51,480
Speaker 1: part question extremely loaded. Why have they been so bad

150
00:07:51,520 --> 00:07:54,280
Speaker 1: for so long? And how do they turn this thing around?

151
00:07:55,920 --> 00:07:57,320
Speaker 2: Well, I think part of it is, and I think

152
00:07:57,360 --> 00:07:59,600
Speaker 2: Mark could attest to this. The infrastructure is not good.

153
00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:04,240
Speaker 2: I'm just talking about basically the facilities at Anaheim Stadium,

154
00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,600
Speaker 2: the facilities in Mesa or testis Me, Tempe, which got

155
00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:13,760
Speaker 2: better by just moving from the ballpark upstairs. Eventually the

156
00:08:13,760 --> 00:08:16,800
Speaker 2: major league team took over the minor league facilities, which

157
00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:19,640
Speaker 2: was backwards to begin with. So there's part of the

158
00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,840
Speaker 2: infrastructure itself. However, I will defend once we got downstairs

159
00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:28,440
Speaker 2: to the minor league spring training complex, which was at

160
00:08:28,480 --> 00:08:31,120
Speaker 2: one time, like I said, the Major League was less

161
00:08:31,160 --> 00:08:34,000
Speaker 2: than it became better. I'm not denying that. But you

162
00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:36,160
Speaker 2: walk in Anaheim Stadium, in the locker room itself, and

163
00:08:36,480 --> 00:08:38,400
Speaker 2: the way everything is set up, it's just if you

164
00:08:38,440 --> 00:08:42,240
Speaker 2: look at their weight room and training abilities. They're batting cages,

165
00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:45,720
Speaker 2: all that stuff, compared to I mean I was with

166
00:08:45,760 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 2: the Cubbies. I mean the Cubs were the big leagues

167
00:08:48,440 --> 00:08:51,320
Speaker 2: of the big leagues. That's just quite frankly, that's what

168
00:08:51,320 --> 00:08:53,840
Speaker 2: they are. And I can't I mean, when it comes

169
00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:56,040
Speaker 2: down to money, amount of money you have and how

170
00:08:56,120 --> 00:08:59,920
Speaker 2: much you want to spend, don't just focus on bright set,

171
00:09:00,440 --> 00:09:03,959
Speaker 2: sexy objects, shiny sexy objects. Focus on the things that

172
00:09:04,000 --> 00:09:06,840
Speaker 2: are very non sexy, things that really make a difference.

173
00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,240
Speaker 2: And a lot of that has to do with how

174
00:09:09,280 --> 00:09:11,880
Speaker 2: you set up your players to succeed on a daily basis.

175
00:09:12,679 --> 00:09:14,760
Speaker 2: And I think that's where the Angels have been short

176
00:09:15,240 --> 00:09:16,959
Speaker 2: right down to the locker room facilities. Like I said,

177
00:09:17,000 --> 00:09:22,400
Speaker 2: the way training facilities, batting cages, masa, everything about it

178
00:09:22,440 --> 00:09:25,160
Speaker 2: is substandard compared to what's going on in the world today.

179
00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:31,080
Speaker 2: So I think it starts right there after that. It's

180
00:09:31,160 --> 00:09:37,840
Speaker 2: just it just arrived at a culture, arrived at a

181
00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,560
Speaker 2: functioning culture and a philosophy of who we are and

182
00:09:41,559 --> 00:09:43,720
Speaker 2: how we want to do this. I don't think that's

183
00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:48,720
Speaker 2: been arrived at. There's no set way, which there was

184
00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:51,520
Speaker 2: in the eighties when I was running the minor league system.

185
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,839
Speaker 2: We built that fabulously. Look at our record of putting

186
00:09:54,840 --> 00:09:56,960
Speaker 2: you guys in the big leagues at that time, gets

187
00:09:56,960 --> 00:09:58,880
Speaker 2: into the nineties. We made a good run. We fell

188
00:09:58,920 --> 00:10:01,600
Speaker 2: apart with Seattle how we'd knocked on the door very loudly,

189
00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:04,680
Speaker 2: and then TC. When TC was there, we came close

190
00:10:04,720 --> 00:10:09,360
Speaker 2: every year. Finally So shows up, and honestly, it brings

191
00:10:09,360 --> 00:10:11,560
Speaker 2: a Dodger culture there. And I'll tell you what Dodger

192
00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:17,520
Speaker 2: culture is. Fearlessness. It's real baseball. It's not worried about

193
00:10:17,559 --> 00:10:21,840
Speaker 2: making mistakes. It's fundamentalism. And that's what sosh brought with

194
00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:25,640
Speaker 2: him himself. Soshia's main attribute for me was the fact

195
00:10:25,679 --> 00:10:28,079
Speaker 2: that he was fearless. It's kind of like David Parker.

196
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,319
Speaker 2: David Parker, Larry Boa, my favorite major league coaches that

197
00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,319
Speaker 2: ever worked with, and it comes down to one thing, fearlessness.

198
00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:37,880
Speaker 2: They're not intimidated by anything. Social never worried about answering

199
00:10:37,880 --> 00:10:42,480
Speaker 2: a tough question ever. Ever, so pulled the butner, pushed

200
00:10:42,520 --> 00:10:44,760
Speaker 2: the butner, pulled the scring based on what he thought

201
00:10:44,800 --> 00:10:46,959
Speaker 2: was the right thing to do in that moment. Lisorda

202
00:10:47,040 --> 00:10:49,079
Speaker 2: did the same thing, et cetera, and I'm not here

203
00:10:49,080 --> 00:10:51,640
Speaker 2: to glorify the Dodgers because I hated them. I hated

204
00:10:51,640 --> 00:10:54,920
Speaker 2: them and instructional league. I hated their white uniforms. I

205
00:10:54,960 --> 00:10:57,760
Speaker 2: wanted to beat them so badly. You know, right now

206
00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,120
Speaker 2: Andrew's there, so and Andrew's showed whatever. But I hated

207
00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:05,360
Speaker 2: the Dodgers. I did everything. I disliked them. But there

208
00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,320
Speaker 2: was a lot to like about them, based on just

209
00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:12,280
Speaker 2: one word. Never worried about making a mistake going out

210
00:11:12,320 --> 00:11:14,440
Speaker 2: there and playing, trying to do the right thing in

211
00:11:14,480 --> 00:11:16,480
Speaker 2: the moment, and if it didn't work out, if it

212
00:11:16,520 --> 00:11:19,160
Speaker 2: was a good baseball play, so what turn the page.

213
00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:23,360
Speaker 2: So she's really good at that. So once he left,

214
00:11:23,559 --> 00:11:29,640
Speaker 2: that's what you're missing, this level of consistency set philosophy.

215
00:11:30,080 --> 00:11:32,000
Speaker 2: Whether you agree with it or not, it doesn't matter

216
00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:36,240
Speaker 2: if there's a strong culture in place and people buy

217
00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,120
Speaker 2: into it. If you look from outside and people are

218
00:11:39,120 --> 00:11:42,240
Speaker 2: gonna accuse it of being wrong or they should be

219
00:11:42,240 --> 00:11:44,360
Speaker 2: doing this differently or better. But so she never worried

220
00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,560
Speaker 2: about that, and that's why they were successful while he

221
00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:50,040
Speaker 2: was there. That's what's been missing. That was what I

222
00:11:50,080 --> 00:11:52,800
Speaker 2: was attempting to do, is to bring back a culture

223
00:11:52,800 --> 00:11:56,600
Speaker 2: of fearlessness, fundamentalism, playing the game right right now. They

224
00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,559
Speaker 2: even they don't even care about my leagues. They get

225
00:11:58,679 --> 00:12:01,120
Speaker 2: they bring guys to the big leagues too soon. They're

226
00:12:01,120 --> 00:12:03,280
Speaker 2: always they're always trying to justify the draft. Those are

227
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:06,599
Speaker 2: the kind of things that are getting in the way.

228
00:12:07,240 --> 00:12:11,040
Speaker 3: It's an incredibly thorough answer, and I much appreciated it.

229
00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:13,400
Speaker 3: Reminded me of the days at gen Autry Park with

230
00:12:13,840 --> 00:12:18,280
Speaker 3: Jeter Hines telling me and so, you know, to your point,

231
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:22,520
Speaker 3: he never minded the physical mistakes. Aggressive physical mistakes were

232
00:12:22,520 --> 00:12:24,400
Speaker 3: part of the deal. He wanted you to go out

233
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,520
Speaker 3: there and lay it on the line. The mental mistakes

234
00:12:26,520 --> 00:12:30,840
Speaker 3: were another area. You you know, basically, I was under

235
00:12:30,840 --> 00:12:32,560
Speaker 3: the impression if you were to miss a sign in

236
00:12:32,600 --> 00:12:35,880
Speaker 3: the big leagues, you were gone. That was how serious

237
00:12:35,960 --> 00:12:38,319
Speaker 3: that that type of stuff was. The attention to detail,

238
00:12:38,360 --> 00:12:41,520
Speaker 3: and I haven't seen that for many, well, at least

239
00:12:41,559 --> 00:12:45,040
Speaker 3: a lot of the last couple of years. One area

240
00:12:45,040 --> 00:12:46,520
Speaker 3: that I wanted to ask you about this is not

241
00:12:46,640 --> 00:12:48,840
Speaker 3: so much angels. It's really more broad. But I've had

242
00:12:48,840 --> 00:12:52,240
Speaker 3: some spirited debates with a friend of mine who has

243
00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,119
Speaker 3: risen to the ranks of a bench coach.

244
00:12:55,320 --> 00:12:56,200
Speaker 2: In the Major leagues.

245
00:12:56,240 --> 00:12:59,520
Speaker 3: But but he's told me it's more about the process

246
00:12:59,679 --> 00:13:03,520
Speaker 3: these days. And I said, what are you talking about.

247
00:13:03,640 --> 00:13:06,920
Speaker 3: It's about winning. The big leagues is about winning, and

248
00:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,520
Speaker 3: he said, no, you're wrong, it's about the process. And

249
00:13:10,200 --> 00:13:12,280
Speaker 3: I've talked about it on the show a few times,

250
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:15,240
Speaker 3: but I think you might be qualified if any of

251
00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:18,480
Speaker 3: that makes sense. The Big Leagues, to me, is only

252
00:13:18,520 --> 00:13:20,280
Speaker 3: about one thing. At least that's the way it was

253
00:13:20,280 --> 00:13:22,160
Speaker 3: taught to me. Were there to win. We're there to

254
00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,120
Speaker 3: win a World Series. Only one team does every year,

255
00:13:25,160 --> 00:13:28,080
Speaker 3: but that is the goal, and then the minor leagues

256
00:13:28,080 --> 00:13:32,079
Speaker 3: are for development and the process. In air quotes, can

257
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:33,720
Speaker 3: you expand on that a little bit if you have

258
00:13:33,760 --> 00:13:34,320
Speaker 3: any thoughts.

259
00:13:35,160 --> 00:13:37,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, they didn't finish the they didn't finish the statement.

260
00:13:37,880 --> 00:13:40,880
Speaker 2: I used to say. The process is fearless, meaning that

261
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,800
Speaker 2: if you stick with a process or the process whatever

262
00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:46,560
Speaker 2: that might be, what it means to you, that would

263
00:13:46,600 --> 00:13:51,160
Speaker 2: then permit you to attack a situation fearlessly because you've

264
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:54,120
Speaker 2: done all the right things in order in advance of

265
00:13:54,160 --> 00:13:57,600
Speaker 2: the moment and there should be some comfort involved in that.

266
00:13:58,480 --> 00:14:01,280
Speaker 2: So that's where the process means. Kenny Revisita talked about

267
00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:04,040
Speaker 2: that a lot. Kenny didn't necessarily like that phrase as

268
00:14:04,120 --> 00:14:06,680
Speaker 2: much the process is fearless, But to me it made

269
00:14:06,760 --> 00:14:08,920
Speaker 2: all the sense in the world because if I stayed

270
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:13,120
Speaker 2: with my process, I'd never be concerned about taking chances.

271
00:14:13,440 --> 00:14:16,440
Speaker 2: The last part that this they're omitting is if you

272
00:14:16,520 --> 00:14:20,320
Speaker 2: stick with the process and build these these these building

273
00:14:20,360 --> 00:14:23,640
Speaker 2: blocks annually, to me, that would lead to a pile

274
00:14:23,760 --> 00:14:27,240
Speaker 2: of wins because that meant to me that you're you're

275
00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:30,480
Speaker 2: systematically doing the right things on a daily basis, you

276
00:14:30,480 --> 00:14:34,680
Speaker 2: were eliminating mental mistakes. That's what I the game. The

277
00:14:35,240 --> 00:14:39,160
Speaker 2: uh mental physical mistakes have a part, big part in

278
00:14:39,200 --> 00:14:41,760
Speaker 2: the game. Mental mistakes have no part in our game.

279
00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:44,120
Speaker 2: So if you stay with the process and build on

280
00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,480
Speaker 2: that meaning that you know, this goes A, goes before BB,

281
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:49,840
Speaker 2: goes before c et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, if

282
00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:52,800
Speaker 2: you do that daily, then that's going to permit us

283
00:14:52,840 --> 00:14:56,480
Speaker 2: to put that nice pile of victories that keep adding

284
00:14:56,600 --> 00:14:59,520
Speaker 2: up as the season goes on. So if you just

285
00:14:59,640 --> 00:15:03,600
Speaker 2: want to focus and rely on the process, it's like

286
00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:08,160
Speaker 2: it's it's like the analytical world. Analytics provides a safety

287
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:11,960
Speaker 2: net for decision making. So if you just stick to

288
00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,360
Speaker 2: the analytics, and it concludes that you don't do well

289
00:15:15,640 --> 00:15:18,280
Speaker 2: if you just stay with it for a while. Eventually

290
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:20,920
Speaker 2: it's gonna work out. The same with these people. If

291
00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 2: you're talking about the process, the process standing alone provides

292
00:15:25,520 --> 00:15:28,680
Speaker 2: a safety net for not being successful because I got

293
00:15:28,680 --> 00:15:31,320
Speaker 2: a process, I'm staying with it, and thus at some

294
00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,440
Speaker 2: point it's gonna work out. There's a part of that

295
00:15:34,480 --> 00:15:38,400
Speaker 2: it is. That is true. However, when you become satisfied

296
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:41,520
Speaker 2: with just that, and that's the that is the problem.

297
00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,240
Speaker 2: My only concern is that I work my process well

298
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:49,600
Speaker 2: and there's no real concern about winning, then you totally

299
00:15:50,080 --> 00:15:53,280
Speaker 2: misconstrued what That's what we're talking about right there. So

300
00:15:53,440 --> 00:15:56,600
Speaker 2: I think a fearless process done well on a daily

301
00:15:56,680 --> 00:16:01,360
Speaker 2: basis leads to winning because it leads to not being

302
00:16:01,400 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 2: concerned about making mistakes. I have done my prep. The

303
00:16:04,920 --> 00:16:06,960
Speaker 2: hay is in the barn, as Kenny used to say,

304
00:16:07,160 --> 00:16:09,440
Speaker 2: and I could go out there and play you know,

305
00:16:09,560 --> 00:16:12,400
Speaker 2: balls out not worried about making mistakes if it's the

306
00:16:12,480 --> 00:16:14,600
Speaker 2: right baseball, if it's if it's right to throw behind

307
00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:18,320
Speaker 2: the runner at first base with you know, play run

308
00:16:18,360 --> 00:16:21,080
Speaker 2: around first and second, say for instance, double play situation

309
00:16:21,160 --> 00:16:23,240
Speaker 2: is still in order. But this guy first base is

310
00:16:23,240 --> 00:16:25,880
Speaker 2: getting huge leads. It's a great time for the catcher

311
00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:28,240
Speaker 2: to back pick in order to keep him closer so

312
00:16:28,280 --> 00:16:29,960
Speaker 2: that we can complete a double play and not get

313
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:32,960
Speaker 2: my shortstop killed. Now, if the catcher makes that throw

314
00:16:32,960 --> 00:16:35,200
Speaker 2: and it goes down the right field line, I'm upset.

315
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:37,520
Speaker 2: It was the right thing to do in that moment.

316
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:42,120
Speaker 2: Run around third base infield in okay, and this this

317
00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:46,120
Speaker 2: runner is taking this enormous secondary lead at the third

318
00:16:46,160 --> 00:16:47,840
Speaker 2: base in order to try to get a jump and go.

319
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,880
Speaker 2: That's another great time to backpick at third base. As

320
00:16:50,920 --> 00:16:53,400
Speaker 2: an example, if that ball goes down the left field line,

321
00:16:53,400 --> 00:16:56,480
Speaker 2: I'm not upset because it was the right thing to

322
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,520
Speaker 2: do in the moment. And that's where analytics really fall short,

323
00:17:00,560 --> 00:17:01,720
Speaker 2: because none of that it's taught.

324
00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:06,080
Speaker 1: Joe, what's the toughest part of the game to coach? Currently?

325
00:17:06,920 --> 00:17:09,840
Speaker 1: It seems like pitching has an incredible amount of resources

326
00:17:09,840 --> 00:17:13,640
Speaker 1: and hitting is always frantically trying to catch up, and

327
00:17:13,840 --> 00:17:16,480
Speaker 1: most hitting coaches are lasting under two years right.

328
00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:21,000
Speaker 2: Now, stop blaming them, please, you know, if you want,

329
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,520
Speaker 2: if you want better hitters, either draft them or buy them.

330
00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,040
Speaker 2: You know who good hitters are it's really hard to

331
00:17:27,080 --> 00:17:29,240
Speaker 2: take a guy that has not really been successful and

332
00:17:29,240 --> 00:17:32,560
Speaker 2: make him successful in the major league level. Number One,

333
00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:38,360
Speaker 2: analytics absolutely slants towards the pitching side of things. It's

334
00:17:38,359 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 2: a proactive part of the game. The hitting is the

335
00:17:40,640 --> 00:17:43,239
Speaker 2: reactive part of the game hitters. And not only that,

336
00:17:43,280 --> 00:17:45,600
Speaker 2: I mean with the velocity where it is right now

337
00:17:46,119 --> 00:17:49,320
Speaker 2: and the sharpness of breaking balls, having to commit sooner

338
00:17:49,880 --> 00:17:52,320
Speaker 2: in order to get your swing started against certain kind

339
00:17:52,359 --> 00:17:56,360
Speaker 2: of velocities makes it even more difficult. It's just more difficult.

340
00:17:56,400 --> 00:17:59,399
Speaker 2: It's a very difficult thing to do. So stop blaming

341
00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:02,960
Speaker 2: hitting coach, Blame your process. At one is somebody going

342
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:05,320
Speaker 2: to start blaming the acquisitional process. That's really what it

343
00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:09,000
Speaker 2: comes down to. When you rely on hitting coaches to

344
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,520
Speaker 2: take somebody that's deficient. One of the most efficient things,

345
00:18:12,520 --> 00:18:14,200
Speaker 2: the most difficult things to do is to teach some

346
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,000
Speaker 2: you know, the discerning between balls and strikes, organizing your strikes,

347
00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,200
Speaker 2: and that's not easy. When we were there in two

348
00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,720
Speaker 2: thousand and two, we won. That was something that I

349
00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:24,200
Speaker 2: was into. If you go back and read all the

350
00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:26,920
Speaker 2: stuff that I wrote before then, I was about balancing

351
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:29,159
Speaker 2: my walks to strikeouts. That was a big thing for

352
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,720
Speaker 2: me among my hitters, a two strike approach or really

353
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,800
Speaker 2: big thing. I called it the b hack, really big

354
00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:36,359
Speaker 2: thing about what I did as a hitting coach that

355
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,160
Speaker 2: is not necessarily taught anymore. So when you're constantly trying

356
00:18:41,160 --> 00:18:45,639
Speaker 2: to get hitting coaches to take somebody who really is

357
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:47,520
Speaker 2: not a lot of it's just not ready to be there,

358
00:18:47,600 --> 00:18:48,960
Speaker 2: keep them in a minor league a little bit longer.

359
00:18:49,040 --> 00:18:51,679
Speaker 2: Supply the minor leagues with more efficient and better at

360
00:18:51,720 --> 00:18:55,680
Speaker 2: hitting coaches as opposed to just an iPad or data

361
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:58,720
Speaker 2: information or video, because that's really what it comes down to.

362
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,840
Speaker 2: I want you know I had. I had merv Retman,

363
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,359
Speaker 2: had Bennie Hines, Gosh, I had so many Bob Clear,

364
00:19:04,359 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 2: I had so many great hitting coaches that I came

365
00:19:07,200 --> 00:19:10,600
Speaker 2: up with Rick Down and was able to pick their brains.

366
00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:12,560
Speaker 2: And they're the guys that made me a better as

367
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:14,480
Speaker 2: I was hitting coach in my LEAs for seven years.

368
00:19:15,040 --> 00:19:20,679
Speaker 2: To just rely on data information and the like and

369
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,680
Speaker 2: consider yourself a hitting coach and that's what they're relying

370
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:28,919
Speaker 2: upon right now, to me, is absolutely wrong. Criticize your

371
00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 2: acquisitional process, go through that first before you start criticizing

372
00:19:33,320 --> 00:19:36,320
Speaker 2: coaches because a lot of times the acquisitional process, which

373
00:19:36,359 --> 00:19:39,320
Speaker 2: is where I would want to use analytics more than anywhere,

374
00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,200
Speaker 2: would be in that because that's where you could really

375
00:19:42,200 --> 00:19:45,520
Speaker 2: comp and compare in November December, look under the hood,

376
00:19:45,560 --> 00:19:47,520
Speaker 2: what are we missing on this guy? What does that

377
00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,360
Speaker 2: guy have that we're missing? That's where you want it

378
00:19:50,440 --> 00:19:55,280
Speaker 2: season in progress. Trust me, it is so overrated when

379
00:19:55,280 --> 00:20:00,320
Speaker 2: the season begins. It's accurate with defense, no question, give

380
00:20:00,320 --> 00:20:02,040
Speaker 2: it to me. I want in order to play my

381
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,000
Speaker 2: shorts up against Mark Trumpbell, Absolutely I do, and I'm

382
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,720
Speaker 2: playing you what It's going to be very successful. And

383
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,359
Speaker 2: I want where where shall I shift with two strikes?

384
00:20:09,359 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 2: What does her kind of adjustment does he normally make

385
00:20:11,520 --> 00:20:15,800
Speaker 2: with two strikes? It's there pitching, yes, what is where?

386
00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:17,800
Speaker 2: What do I want attack Mark? Then the strikes? So

387
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:19,639
Speaker 2: what do I want attack him with two strikes? And

388
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:22,240
Speaker 2: this is individually versus right head and left handed pitchers,

389
00:20:22,280 --> 00:20:24,520
Speaker 2: and the same thing on what do I want to

390
00:20:24,520 --> 00:20:26,480
Speaker 2: play my shorts up? It all goes against rights and

391
00:20:26,520 --> 00:20:30,200
Speaker 2: left These things change. Everything fluctuates just based on handedness too.

392
00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:33,960
Speaker 2: So there are certain components of this that are really

393
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,480
Speaker 2: accurate and I want absolutely, I want give it to

394
00:20:37,520 --> 00:20:39,679
Speaker 2: me versus what we're doing. But then there is the

395
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:43,359
Speaker 2: nebulous part of it. And when you start, like before

396
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,359
Speaker 2: the game, tell me what relief pictures can or cannot

397
00:20:46,359 --> 00:20:48,479
Speaker 2: pitch and where you want me to slot them. All

398
00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:51,160
Speaker 2: the time my starting pitch is the third time through

399
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:52,560
Speaker 2: the batting where I got to pull him out. Why

400
00:20:52,640 --> 00:20:55,560
Speaker 2: if he's pitching really well, why has that not been

401
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,399
Speaker 2: nurtured in the minor leagues. We've taught the guy to

402
00:20:57,440 --> 00:20:59,800
Speaker 2: go the third time through and have him understand maybe

403
00:20:59,800 --> 00:21:01,560
Speaker 2: you got hold back something the first time through the

404
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:04,560
Speaker 2: batting order in order to really feel comfortable the third

405
00:21:04,560 --> 00:21:07,360
Speaker 2: time through the batting order. And how about just emptying

406
00:21:07,359 --> 00:21:09,080
Speaker 2: the tank in the first couple of three four innings

407
00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:11,560
Speaker 2: because all I want is elevated velocity with a lot

408
00:21:11,560 --> 00:21:14,320
Speaker 2: of spin, and there's no pitch ability talked about whatsoever.

409
00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,560
Speaker 2: There's so many there's there's so many discrepancies with this.

410
00:21:17,640 --> 00:21:19,600
Speaker 2: And then after all, if it all came down to

411
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,919
Speaker 2: his analytical approach, why would any team be under five hundred?

412
00:21:22,960 --> 00:21:25,560
Speaker 2: There should be like just one big major league's worth

413
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:27,800
Speaker 2: of five hundred if the information is always so good,

414
00:21:28,040 --> 00:21:30,960
Speaker 2: And after it comes down to the the acquisitional process.

415
00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:33,760
Speaker 2: That's it. I mean, nobody talks about this stuff, but

416
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:35,240
Speaker 2: that's really where it's at.

417
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,040
Speaker 3: I would agree one hundred percent. I can answer those

418
00:21:40,119 --> 00:21:44,000
Speaker 3: questions on my personal scouting how to pitch music without

419
00:21:44,000 --> 00:21:47,840
Speaker 3: an ounce of analytics. Experience taught me a lot of that.

420
00:21:48,560 --> 00:21:52,359
Speaker 3: Jared and I actually we were talking about going deeper

421
00:21:52,359 --> 00:21:56,720
Speaker 3: into games on the pitching side and having a third

422
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:01,720
Speaker 3: pitch and a word command, which is all that disappeared

423
00:22:01,840 --> 00:22:04,960
Speaker 3: as catchers set up down the middle now by and large,

424
00:22:05,040 --> 00:22:07,920
Speaker 3: and there's a lot of goofy stuff going on. This question, though,

425
00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:11,520
Speaker 3: is about where have all of the ex players gone

426
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:17,080
Speaker 3: on coaching staffs. I'm wondering if front offices view the

427
00:22:17,119 --> 00:22:19,760
Speaker 3: majority of X players, is there a stereotype of them

428
00:22:19,800 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 3: being outdated? Are they not hip to the new protocols

429
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:28,160
Speaker 3: with the weighted balls and you know batting tees if

430
00:22:28,440 --> 00:22:29,880
Speaker 3: anyone remembers what those are.

431
00:22:30,240 --> 00:22:32,040
Speaker 2: By the way, most really.

432
00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:34,480
Speaker 3: Good hitters use one, and I was a big proponent.

433
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,320
Speaker 3: But to each their own. I just don't see ex

434
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:40,480
Speaker 3: players being hired. I see guys from the outside from

435
00:22:40,560 --> 00:22:46,639
Speaker 3: facilities and other places that really haven't earned their stripes,

436
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,119
Speaker 3: you know, getting promoted to the major leagues ahead of

437
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:52,800
Speaker 3: guys that have been toiling away for a long time

438
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:53,840
Speaker 3: trying to earn their shot.

439
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,080
Speaker 1: Do you have any thoughts on that.

440
00:22:56,119 --> 00:22:58,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's kind of insulting in a lot of ways.

441
00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:00,600
Speaker 2: And my biggest concern is who's passing the game along,

442
00:23:01,160 --> 00:23:04,240
Speaker 2: which you're just talking about with the ex players as coaches.

443
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:07,800
Speaker 2: Who is passing the game along? That was so vital

444
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,320
Speaker 2: to me? And I know I get some kickback on

445
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,159
Speaker 2: all this stuff where people will get annoyed when I

446
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,480
Speaker 2: say things like this because times have changed. Oh really,

447
00:23:18,119 --> 00:23:21,600
Speaker 2: the moment you stop thinking experience, feel and intuition matter,

448
00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:26,560
Speaker 2: you're setting yourself up for failure absolutely on a minor

449
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:29,000
Speaker 2: league level right now, which is really considered kind of

450
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:32,399
Speaker 2: almost like a courtesy just to like park some guys

451
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 2: for a couple of years, and development really isn't part

452
00:23:34,240 --> 00:23:36,800
Speaker 2: of it. That's why you see all these orchestrated pre

453
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,439
Speaker 2: game batting practices and stuff starting at three o'clock in

454
00:23:39,440 --> 00:23:41,959
Speaker 2: the afternoon. Does nothing but tire guys out. These are

455
00:23:41,960 --> 00:23:44,240
Speaker 2: major league players that are not a ball or double

456
00:23:44,320 --> 00:23:46,080
Speaker 2: A guys that you're trying to get to the big leagues.

457
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,760
Speaker 2: I'm so against the orchestrated, choreographed pre game on a

458
00:23:49,840 --> 00:23:52,679
Speaker 2: daily basis. I can't even begin to tell you. I

459
00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:55,800
Speaker 2: prefer guys coming to the ballpark later. I prefer less

460
00:23:55,840 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: work before. I prefer a arrested mind and body going

461
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:04,080
Speaker 2: into a major league game with adequate amount of time

462
00:24:04,440 --> 00:24:08,320
Speaker 2: allotted for getting loose and whatever study you need. I

463
00:24:08,400 --> 00:24:11,159
Speaker 2: promise you show Heye does not need these volumes of

464
00:24:11,520 --> 00:24:15,159
Speaker 2: analytical information before every game. I promise you that's not true.

465
00:24:15,800 --> 00:24:18,879
Speaker 2: I've heard recently. I mean, like last night at dinner,

466
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:21,920
Speaker 2: and I knew this to be true. Like major league

467
00:24:21,920 --> 00:24:25,320
Speaker 2: guys will go into different cities, former major league players,

468
00:24:25,359 --> 00:24:28,480
Speaker 2: star players with different organizations, and they'll go in and

469
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:30,600
Speaker 2: they'll hang up by the batting cage or be there

470
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,679
Speaker 2: a spring training for a bit. As they get there,

471
00:24:33,720 --> 00:24:37,160
Speaker 2: they're immediately told, Okay, why you're here. Please, we don't

472
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 2: want you to speak to any of the hitters about

473
00:24:39,400 --> 00:24:42,800
Speaker 2: anything about hitting and pitchers. Please. I love having you here.

474
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:45,600
Speaker 2: It's wonderful to have your great but do not speak

475
00:24:45,600 --> 00:24:49,800
Speaker 2: to our pictures about anything regarding pitching, mechanics, methods, whatever

476
00:24:49,840 --> 00:24:52,760
Speaker 2: that you might have. We really don't want that true.

477
00:24:53,840 --> 00:24:56,080
Speaker 2: This is not all made up stuff. This is true.

478
00:24:56,240 --> 00:24:59,359
Speaker 2: I recently befriended a lady by the name of Laura Wong.

479
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:04,480
Speaker 2: I got some information about a book she recently wrote, You've, You've,

480
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:08,800
Speaker 2: You've already, you already know. She's a professor at Northeastern

481
00:25:08,920 --> 00:25:12,760
Speaker 2: University in Boston. Fascinating woman, and her book is great

482
00:25:13,080 --> 00:25:16,359
Speaker 2: and pretty much it really comes down to she's advocating

483
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:22,359
Speaker 2: for and defending experience, intuition, feel, gut, feel. Especially she's

484
00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:25,440
Speaker 2: she's defending it, and she's and she's got examples, and

485
00:25:25,480 --> 00:25:29,040
Speaker 2: it's talked to CEO, CEO, CFOs, all the heads of

486
00:25:29,080 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: different corporations throughout and defending the fact that these really

487
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:39,040
Speaker 2: do exist. This, this other sense or ability to recognize

488
00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 2: what's the right thing to do in the moment exists

489
00:25:41,280 --> 00:25:44,399
Speaker 2: outside of math. And it's a really well played book.

490
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,199
Speaker 2: It's it's a great read. I actually I'll wake up

491
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,840
Speaker 2: some mornings and I'll have a thought, write down this

492
00:25:49,960 --> 00:25:52,720
Speaker 2: long elongated text or email, and I'll send it to her,

493
00:25:53,040 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 2: and I want her feedback. I want to know what

494
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:58,760
Speaker 2: she thinks about it. And so she her explanation and

495
00:25:58,800 --> 00:26:04,040
Speaker 2: her research is so leer on where experience falls in

496
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:08,600
Speaker 2: intuition and gut field falls in high level decision making,

497
00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:11,679
Speaker 2: and how important it is to have that independent of

498
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,920
Speaker 2: math listens. I always want, I always want the numbers

499
00:26:15,960 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 2: given to me. Throw me that stack, give me reams

500
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:21,720
Speaker 2: of it, but just permit me then to call it down,

501
00:26:21,760 --> 00:26:24,280
Speaker 2: and then permit us as a coaching staff to call

502
00:26:24,320 --> 00:26:27,440
Speaker 2: it down to the point where we then distributed among

503
00:26:27,480 --> 00:26:30,520
Speaker 2: our players who we know who can handle stuff and

504
00:26:30,560 --> 00:26:34,439
Speaker 2: who cannot. Meetings can be laborers and boring. It's one

505
00:26:34,520 --> 00:26:37,359
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty two game season. You need to cut

506
00:26:37,359 --> 00:26:43,280
Speaker 2: that time element down. You need to That's it. I mean, everybody,

507
00:26:43,400 --> 00:26:46,280
Speaker 2: they're all working today being in everybody, every organization is

508
00:26:46,320 --> 00:26:49,359
Speaker 2: working from the same sheet of music. Because it's pretty

509
00:26:49,400 --> 00:26:52,639
Speaker 2: much a competition among front offices, probably even more so

510
00:26:52,680 --> 00:26:54,840
Speaker 2: than it's a competition on the field. That's where it

511
00:26:54,880 --> 00:26:58,720
Speaker 2: scotten to. So I will argue this with anybody any time.

512
00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:01,439
Speaker 2: I'm looking for that first group that comes back and

513
00:27:01,520 --> 00:27:06,680
Speaker 2: incorporates tried and true methods with the incorporation of new

514
00:27:06,760 --> 00:27:08,520
Speaker 2: data and stuff. But at the end of the day,

515
00:27:08,960 --> 00:27:12,960
Speaker 2: one voice should be heard in a dugout on the field,

516
00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,760
Speaker 2: in the clubhouse, the manager has been kind of castrated

517
00:27:15,800 --> 00:27:18,720
Speaker 2: to a certain level, and right now the front office

518
00:27:18,720 --> 00:27:21,879
Speaker 2: has really ruled the roost. Managers have turned into middle managers.

519
00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:25,879
Speaker 2: They no longer have the same authority to say what

520
00:27:25,920 --> 00:27:28,040
Speaker 2: they think when they want to say it and express

521
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:30,040
Speaker 2: it the way they want to, because they have to

522
00:27:30,160 --> 00:27:34,879
Speaker 2: run it through this this sieve, this this of inform,

523
00:27:35,040 --> 00:27:38,960
Speaker 2: this that that that the louteser extrapolates information down through

524
00:27:38,960 --> 00:27:41,720
Speaker 2: the bottom that eventually is permitted or not permitted to

525
00:27:41,720 --> 00:27:43,560
Speaker 2: be set truth. That's all truth.

526
00:27:44,240 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: Speaking of managers, Joe, the Angels just hired Kurt Suzuki,

527
00:27:48,960 --> 00:27:53,000
Speaker 1: and what are the challenges challenges of being a first

528
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:56,320
Speaker 1: time manager Because teams seem more willing than ever to

529
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: go with youth, and and let's be honest, you know

530
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:05,119
Speaker 1: they're saving a bunch of salary. What are the challenges

531
00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:07,840
Speaker 1: of a guy like Kurtsuzuki coming into this situation.

532
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,760
Speaker 2: Well, first of all, it really is a classic contemporary

533
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:18,520
Speaker 2: method of leadership, which is control over empowerment. I've definitely

534
00:28:18,560 --> 00:28:20,800
Speaker 2: concluded that there was a time when I was coming

535
00:28:20,840 --> 00:28:23,560
Speaker 2: up any job I got, even as a youngster, I

536
00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:26,080
Speaker 2: was empowered to do my job. Larry Hines was my

537
00:28:26,160 --> 00:28:30,119
Speaker 2: first scouting director, and tell you what, he was in

538
00:28:30,280 --> 00:28:32,600
Speaker 2: LA and I was over here and I was over

539
00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:37,000
Speaker 2: in Mesa. And regardless of that separation, he permitted me

540
00:28:37,040 --> 00:28:39,760
Speaker 2: to do my job, but he definitely monitored my job

541
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:42,680
Speaker 2: every day, made me send in a week's worth in advance.

542
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:44,320
Speaker 2: Where am I going, Who am I going to see?

543
00:28:44,440 --> 00:28:45,920
Speaker 2: I had to write down who the scouts were at

544
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:47,920
Speaker 2: every place that I went to, blah blah blah whatever.

545
00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 2: But when it came to writing my reports, I wrote

546
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,480
Speaker 2: my reports based on his guidance, like pointing things out

547
00:28:54,520 --> 00:28:55,720
Speaker 2: to me. But at the end of the day, when

548
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:59,600
Speaker 2: I saw Timmy Samon or Chad Curtis or Jackie how

549
00:28:59,720 --> 00:29:02,440
Speaker 2: or mccaskell or all these guys I was involved with

550
00:29:02,480 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 2: in signing, I got to write my own report. That

551
00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:07,160
Speaker 2: was my report based on the stuff that I had

552
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,560
Speaker 2: learned as a player. And then with Larry Luke, Cohen

553
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 2: Auer and all these dudes, Lloyd Christopher, all these great scouts,

554
00:29:14,440 --> 00:29:17,120
Speaker 2: Gene Thompson that I met with. So I was never

555
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:21,720
Speaker 2: coerced into putting something down. It was always my stuff.

556
00:29:22,000 --> 00:29:24,000
Speaker 2: And when you learn how to grow your own stuff,

557
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 2: then you actually know things. When you're always appeasing, ameliorating

558
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 2: somebody else in charge being that is controlling you. You

559
00:29:32,360 --> 00:29:34,760
Speaker 2: never really learn. You don't know what you know. You

560
00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:37,840
Speaker 2: don't really know anything. You just know your regurgitator. And

561
00:29:37,880 --> 00:29:41,680
Speaker 2: so that's that. So that's part of why the younger

562
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:45,320
Speaker 2: generation is being hired without experience. Number two, I like

563
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 2: Kurt a lot. Having said all that, we had a

564
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 2: great relationship there as a coach, manager, and catcher. He's

565
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:58,200
Speaker 2: really he was wonderful to exchange ideas with daily. He's

566
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,680
Speaker 2: a really good game call. He's a he fearless on

567
00:30:00,720 --> 00:30:02,720
Speaker 2: the field man, solid man. Go out to the mount

568
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,840
Speaker 2: and talk to him. Everything was great, All that was

569
00:30:05,880 --> 00:30:09,200
Speaker 2: in order, all that was in place. First time manager

570
00:30:09,200 --> 00:30:11,640
Speaker 2: for me, and know what that was, Idaho Falls, nineteen

571
00:30:11,680 --> 00:30:14,040
Speaker 2: eighty one, twenty seven years of age. I had thirty

572
00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 2: two players on my team. Eight of them spoke Spanish only,

573
00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:19,800
Speaker 2: and I was it. I didn't have a first base coach,

574
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 2: third base coach, pitching coach. The year of a strike

575
00:30:23,720 --> 00:30:27,400
Speaker 2: who came into town. Mike Port came into town, Preston

576
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,880
Speaker 2: Gomez came into town. Warren Spahn was our minor league

577
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,440
Speaker 2: pitching coordinator, and I guess yeah, Merv Marveless, Murv Redmond

578
00:30:34,480 --> 00:30:36,160
Speaker 2: was the minor league hitting coach at that time. That

579
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,760
Speaker 2: was it. So you're in Idol Falls thirty two dudes.

580
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 2: We got stopped. Our bus was we're going into Canada

581
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:46,120
Speaker 2: eleven o'clock or whatever at night. There was nobody at

582
00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,280
Speaker 2: the border there to check the passports of our kids.

583
00:30:48,560 --> 00:30:50,719
Speaker 2: We had to spend the night there at the border. Okay,

584
00:30:51,120 --> 00:30:53,400
Speaker 2: that was the minor league baseball. That's what we did.

585
00:30:53,760 --> 00:30:57,040
Speaker 2: And you had to somehow figure that out, and you

586
00:30:57,080 --> 00:30:59,640
Speaker 2: had to work through that. The time that Kachman, Tommy

587
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:03,080
Speaker 2: Koch and I was with them. They're going to Eugene, Oregon.

588
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:05,280
Speaker 2: Their rooms weren't ready because we drove all night from

589
00:31:05,280 --> 00:31:07,120
Speaker 2: Boise get there like seven eight in the morning. Rooms

590
00:31:07,160 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 2: aren't ready. I happened to be with them and I

591
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 2: went on the bus. I didn't fly because I need

592
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:13,240
Speaker 2: it to be on the bus, so I said, let's go.

593
00:31:13,320 --> 00:31:15,560
Speaker 2: We went over to the Oregon coast. I slapped on

594
00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:17,720
Speaker 2: an American Spress card, which I listened. I had no

595
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 2: money at that time, but I know I was going

596
00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,680
Speaker 2: to expense it. And then you have the Boise Hawks

597
00:31:22,720 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: staying on a beautiful hotel on some kind of beach

598
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,720
Speaker 2: in Oregon. These are the kind of what is I

599
00:31:28,760 --> 00:31:31,280
Speaker 2: know that's not baseball, but it means everything. It means everything.

600
00:31:31,320 --> 00:31:33,640
Speaker 2: You have to learn how to create in a very

601
00:31:33,680 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: negative situation. So that's the only way I can conpare

602
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:39,920
Speaker 2: with Zooks going through is I got to go back

603
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,680
Speaker 2: to eighty one with Dicky Schofield, Devon White. Those are

604
00:31:43,720 --> 00:31:47,480
Speaker 2: my big guys on that team and what that was like.

605
00:31:48,040 --> 00:31:51,440
Speaker 2: No pitching coach, no First Bay coach, no throwing regular BP,

606
00:31:51,640 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: throwing extra whatever. So that's the difference. And then when

607
00:31:56,240 --> 00:31:59,160
Speaker 2: you do do that, you grew up knowing what you know.

608
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080
Speaker 2: I used that phrase, but it's true's you can't be

609
00:32:02,120 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 2: a regurgitator. There's too many regurgitators in the game. People

610
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,840
Speaker 2: really don't know truly what they think they know, or

611
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:11,560
Speaker 2: that what they regurgitators say because they haven't lived it.

612
00:32:11,920 --> 00:32:14,520
Speaker 2: And so when I say it's kind of insulting, I'm

613
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,840
Speaker 2: not hammering whomever is in that position. I want Zooke

614
00:32:17,920 --> 00:32:21,080
Speaker 2: to be successful. I want the fellow Vidello I want

615
00:32:21,080 --> 00:32:23,320
Speaker 2: to be I want all these guys to be successful.

616
00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,720
Speaker 2: But if you're asking me honestly what I think about it.

617
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:28,280
Speaker 2: If I retrace my history and I knew how important

618
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,320
Speaker 2: all these steps were to me, I could never have

619
00:32:31,360 --> 00:32:32,720
Speaker 2: helped the Cubs win the World Series.

620
00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:37,760
Speaker 3: Never Idaho falls the old ballpark what.

621
00:32:37,640 --> 00:32:41,640
Speaker 2: A correct Absolutely, but.

622
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,440
Speaker 3: There were many of those and you had to fight

623
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 3: your way out of it. Are you saying that often

624
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:49,440
Speaker 3: heard if you don't like it, get better?

625
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: Uh?

626
00:32:52,560 --> 00:32:56,120
Speaker 3: And you've already answered this all pivot a little bit.

627
00:32:56,320 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 3: Instructionally we used to and I think maybe you were

628
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,640
Speaker 3: part of this, have to write down if you were

629
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:06,040
Speaker 3: an adder, a subtractor, or a neutral. If you weren't

630
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:07,720
Speaker 3: part of that, you probably might agree with it. But

631
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,560
Speaker 3: it was self evaluating for minor league players, and I

632
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:13,840
Speaker 3: was quit neutral for I was talking to Aplora's the

633
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,400
Speaker 3: other day about it. Hopefully you know, people thought I

634
00:33:17,440 --> 00:33:19,720
Speaker 3: wasn't too delusional. At one point I did think I

635
00:33:19,760 --> 00:33:22,800
Speaker 3: turned the corner and maybe was capable of putting adder.

636
00:33:22,880 --> 00:33:25,560
Speaker 3: But that was part of the cultural stuff that I

637
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:29,600
Speaker 3: saw coming up that you needed to sometimes be very honest,

638
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:31,680
Speaker 3: and I think that's the feedback that always helped me

639
00:33:31,720 --> 00:33:35,360
Speaker 3: the most, was brutally honest feedback. Even how you speak

640
00:33:35,400 --> 00:33:38,520
Speaker 3: to people and come off Apparently I was came off

641
00:33:38,560 --> 00:33:41,719
Speaker 3: as a know it all, and Craig gray Beck, in

642
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,400
Speaker 3: no uncertain terms told me to figure it out and

643
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,560
Speaker 3: change that. And it seems in the game now that

644
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:54,360
Speaker 3: is very unlikely to happen. Players don't want the tough criticism.

645
00:33:54,600 --> 00:33:56,680
Speaker 3: I think there's a fear they're going to, you know,

646
00:33:57,160 --> 00:34:00,920
Speaker 3: curl up and disappear on you. And it seems like

647
00:34:00,960 --> 00:34:05,520
Speaker 3: a very challenging time to manage personalities, and especially with

648
00:34:05,560 --> 00:34:09,680
Speaker 3: your background and you know, experiencing those tough places to

649
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:13,600
Speaker 3: fight your way out of, and now this culture at least,

650
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:15,719
Speaker 3: you know, in my opinion, it's I don't want to

651
00:34:15,719 --> 00:34:17,000
Speaker 3: say soft, but it's different.

652
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 2: If I tell you the truth, you might not like

653
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:23,440
Speaker 2: me for a week or ten days. If I like

654
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:26,200
Speaker 2: to you, you're gonna hate me forever. I recently went

655
00:34:26,239 --> 00:34:30,560
Speaker 2: back to the Cubs convention, right we were celebrating twenty sixteen,

656
00:34:31,800 --> 00:34:34,360
Speaker 2: and you know, I didn't know what to expect overall.

657
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,800
Speaker 2: I mean, I knew it was gonna be a celebration.

658
00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:37,480
Speaker 2: It was gonna be happy, the fans are going to

659
00:34:37,560 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 2: be great. It was absolutely jammed. It was tremendous. But

660
00:34:41,200 --> 00:34:44,759
Speaker 2: the part of it. That really overwhelmed me were conversations

661
00:34:44,760 --> 00:34:47,560
Speaker 2: individual with players from that team. You know, guys that

662
00:34:47,680 --> 00:34:50,280
Speaker 2: maybe I was a little bit hard with than twenty sixteens.

663
00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:52,839
Speaker 2: Were guys maybe that I did not concede to all

664
00:34:52,880 --> 00:34:56,520
Speaker 2: the time, and that stood my ground. These guys came

665
00:34:56,600 --> 00:35:00,919
Speaker 2: up to me during this time and we're absolutely blew

666
00:35:00,960 --> 00:35:04,680
Speaker 2: me away in a magnificent way, and I conceded that

667
00:35:04,719 --> 00:35:06,920
Speaker 2: I was right and maybe they were wrong. And that

668
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 2: to me is like, that's the validation if you're looking for,

669
00:35:09,920 --> 00:35:12,319
Speaker 2: which I never do. But if you are, all that

670
00:35:12,360 --> 00:35:14,360
Speaker 2: tells you is like, just keep doing what you're doing,

671
00:35:14,880 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 2: which I'm more than likely I would. But when you

672
00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:21,040
Speaker 2: hear it from some really you know, good players too.

673
00:35:21,480 --> 00:35:23,879
Speaker 2: I'm not just talking about bench guys. I'm talking about

674
00:35:23,880 --> 00:35:27,840
Speaker 2: some guys. And so when your stuff is validated, and

675
00:35:27,880 --> 00:35:29,600
Speaker 2: happened with the race too. After I left the race,

676
00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,200
Speaker 2: I got that kind of feedback from the guys with

677
00:35:32,239 --> 00:35:36,319
Speaker 2: the race too. So I thought about this several years

678
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:38,600
Speaker 2: ago in the phrase I just gave you. If I

679
00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:40,880
Speaker 2: tell you, excuse me, If I tell you the truth,

680
00:35:41,320 --> 00:35:43,239
Speaker 2: you might not like me for a little bit. But

681
00:35:43,280 --> 00:35:45,560
Speaker 2: if I lie to you, you're gonna hate me forever.

682
00:35:45,960 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 2: So I like, Okay, what's the best coach? What's the

683
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:52,240
Speaker 2: best major league coach? I feel again the word fearless

684
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:54,960
Speaker 2: major league coach. The guy that's able to have tough conversations,

685
00:35:55,320 --> 00:35:58,040
Speaker 2: that is a great major league coach. He doesn't have

686
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:01,640
Speaker 2: to have a PhD or whatever in hitting or pitching

687
00:36:01,719 --> 00:36:04,839
Speaker 2: or whatever. If he shows up every day, works hard,

688
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:07,560
Speaker 2: and he is an open communicator and speaks freely and

689
00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 2: openly and honestly with my players, this guy's a good

690
00:36:10,600 --> 00:36:13,640
Speaker 2: coach because that's what you need. You don't need to dissemble,

691
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 2: don't take the truth and soften it up or make

692
00:36:17,120 --> 00:36:20,160
Speaker 2: it appealing to him whatever you're speaking with now, Honesty

693
00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,000
Speaker 2: without compassion could equal cruelty. But that has to happen

694
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:26,800
Speaker 2: outside of the athletic world or professional sports. That happens

695
00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:28,880
Speaker 2: with the fifth grader. You know, if I'm talking to

696
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:32,200
Speaker 2: my daughter, or it's you know, somebody from outside. We're

697
00:36:32,200 --> 00:36:38,920
Speaker 2: talking professional baseball players. So honesty without compassion equals cruelty

698
00:36:39,080 --> 00:36:42,280
Speaker 2: knowing your audience. But when it comes to professional sports,

699
00:36:42,440 --> 00:36:44,359
Speaker 2: if you don't have it, grow some thick skin. There's

700
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,440
Speaker 2: got to be a supplement for that. There's a supplement

701
00:36:46,480 --> 00:36:50,359
Speaker 2: for everything else. My best coaches were the duce that

702
00:36:50,480 --> 00:36:53,520
Speaker 2: shot me straight, no doubt, and I had some tough

703
00:36:53,560 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 2: coaches starting in June midget football, the high school football,

704
00:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,360
Speaker 2: to college football to baseball and the mind bus Stuben

705
00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:04,440
Speaker 2: Bob Clear, dude, if you don't want to hear it,

706
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:07,480
Speaker 2: don't ask the question, because it's coming unfiltered, man, and

707
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:10,720
Speaker 2: it's coming right between your eyeballs. That's still the best

708
00:37:10,719 --> 00:37:13,840
Speaker 2: method of communication I'm talking about. On a professional level,

709
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:17,759
Speaker 2: we do sugarcoat it too much. Best coaches are Brian Butterfield,

710
00:37:18,200 --> 00:37:22,720
Speaker 2: stud absolute stud you know, Mickey Hatcher, Buddy Black, Pepe

711
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,080
Speaker 2: Ron Reddick might be the best ever. You asked Rags

712
00:37:26,080 --> 00:37:30,239
Speaker 2: a question, be prepared to have your hair parted if

713
00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:32,120
Speaker 2: he disagrees with you. And that's just the way it is.

714
00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:37,440
Speaker 1: Okay, let's turn our attention to the World Baseball Classic.

715
00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: All of our World Baseball Classic coverage is brought to

716
00:37:40,600 --> 00:37:44,000
Speaker 1: you by our friends at Fox one, which is live

717
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:46,960
Speaker 1: stream all your Fox favorites together in one place, including

718
00:37:47,000 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 1: all WBC games over the next few weeks, and after

719
00:37:50,640 --> 00:37:55,319
Speaker 1: that the best MLB action all season long. Well, the

720
00:37:55,400 --> 00:37:59,560
Speaker 1: US kicks off it's WBC Friday against Brazil and Houston

721
00:38:00,640 --> 00:38:03,439
Speaker 1: and Joe. I've seen some players on this year's team

722
00:38:03,560 --> 00:38:06,720
Speaker 1: calling this group the quote best collection of US talent

723
00:38:06,880 --> 00:38:10,520
Speaker 1: ever assembled. Knowing Mike Trout as you do, how do

724
00:38:10,560 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: you how much does this burn Mike Trout, who is

725
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,319
Speaker 1: the captain of the last WBC team, Knowing he's not

726
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:17,880
Speaker 1: a part.

727
00:38:17,719 --> 00:38:21,239
Speaker 2: Of this, Well, there's got to be a part of him,

728
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,319
Speaker 2: absolutely that's got to be upset about it. But there's

729
00:38:23,320 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 2: also got to be a part of that, like, come on, man,

730
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:28,640
Speaker 2: I need to stay healthy this season too. I mean's

731
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,200
Speaker 2: he's already done that. It's one of those things you've

732
00:38:31,200 --> 00:38:33,600
Speaker 2: already been there, done that. I know they didn't win necessarily,

733
00:38:33,680 --> 00:38:38,880
Speaker 2: but gosh, I mean, after all, it's about playing the

734
00:38:38,960 --> 00:38:40,759
Speaker 2: last game of the season and winning it more than

735
00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:42,960
Speaker 2: it's playing the last game of the WBC in winning it.

736
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:45,640
Speaker 2: I'm sorry, but I listen. It's it's kind of a

737
00:38:45,680 --> 00:38:47,320
Speaker 2: cool little gig that we do right now. But I

738
00:38:47,560 --> 00:38:52,640
Speaker 2: don't get overwhelmed by it at all as a baseball purist.

739
00:38:52,719 --> 00:38:55,600
Speaker 2: For me, it's about shocking your team into position to

740
00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:57,480
Speaker 2: get to the playoffs, and like I said, played the

741
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,319
Speaker 2: last game of the year and win it. That's what

742
00:39:00,320 --> 00:39:03,760
Speaker 2: we should be focusing on. I'm always concerned about wrapping

743
00:39:03,840 --> 00:39:07,160
Speaker 2: up too quickly. I am. I always thought spring training

744
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,160
Speaker 2: should be a slow dance and not not this you know,

745
00:39:10,400 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 2: fast dance or breakdance that it's become when the WBC

746
00:39:13,840 --> 00:39:17,040
Speaker 2: pops up. So I just think it's wise for them

747
00:39:17,120 --> 00:39:20,280
Speaker 2: not to be Maybe make him an honorary captain, happen showup,

748
00:39:20,280 --> 00:39:22,120
Speaker 2: but I mean that that doesn't serve any really purpose.

749
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:24,440
Speaker 2: Just let them play. Might you take care of yourself

750
00:39:24,440 --> 00:39:27,160
Speaker 2: and get ready for the season, and you get as

751
00:39:27,160 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 2: many games under your belt as you possibly can and

752
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,839
Speaker 2: help get the Angels bright back on the right path.

753
00:39:31,880 --> 00:39:35,560
Speaker 2: That to me would be my main motivation, I believe.

754
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:37,120
Speaker 2: So that's how I see it.

755
00:39:39,480 --> 00:39:42,399
Speaker 1: From the WBC, through the World Series, to the World Cup,

756
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,080
Speaker 1: to NASCAR and IndyCar. With Fox one, you get it

757
00:39:46,160 --> 00:39:50,920
Speaker 1: all live. Start your seven day free trial today. Offers

758
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,400
Speaker 1: are subject to change. Download Fox one today and stream

759
00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:58,640
Speaker 1: the World Baseball Classic live March six through fourteenth. Go

760
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,560
Speaker 1: to foxwe dot com for complete terms and conditions. Fox

761
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:09,840
Speaker 1: won streaming now Well, Joe, one of your many claims

762
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:12,879
Speaker 1: to fame is that You're the only manager in Major

763
00:40:12,960 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: League history modern day to intentionally walk a batter with

764
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,720
Speaker 1: the bases loaded twice to Josh Hamilton in two thousand

765
00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 1: and eight and Corey Seeger in twenty twenty two. He

766
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:27,040
Speaker 1: won both of those games, with the Rays in eight

767
00:40:27,480 --> 00:40:30,200
Speaker 1: and Angels in twenty twenty two. How do you reflect

768
00:40:30,200 --> 00:40:31,600
Speaker 1: on those decisions?

769
00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,040
Speaker 2: Well, yeah, Josh Hamilton could not have been hotter, could

770
00:40:35,120 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 2: not have been hotter, and he would have tied the

771
00:40:37,760 --> 00:40:42,040
Speaker 2: score by pitching to him. And I definitely, absolutely believe

772
00:40:42,080 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: he would have tied the score. I mean intuition, experience, wisdom,

773
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 2: whatever you want to call it, that came to bear

774
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:50,960
Speaker 2: in that moment. I know Grant Balfour didn't like it,

775
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:53,600
Speaker 2: because Grant was actually a reverse splick guy. He was

776
00:40:53,640 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 2: really good against lefties. But I think Marlon Bird was

777
00:40:56,719 --> 00:40:58,960
Speaker 2: on deck and had Danny Wheeler and the bullpen, and

778
00:40:59,040 --> 00:41:02,160
Speaker 2: Danny had been really good against righty. So we just

779
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 2: made the move and obviously it worked, and so we

780
00:41:05,360 --> 00:41:07,640
Speaker 2: put them within a Grand Slam way of beating us.

781
00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:10,000
Speaker 2: I believe the actual OKCOM would have been so anyway,

782
00:41:10,880 --> 00:41:14,680
Speaker 2: that falls under the category of dodger Mania, where you

783
00:41:14,760 --> 00:41:16,600
Speaker 2: do the right thing, and don't worry about answering a

784
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:18,600
Speaker 2: difficult question. That's that's really where it comes from. And

785
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:21,799
Speaker 2: that was my se When you have a feel of

786
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,280
Speaker 2: freedom in the dugout, if you feel freedom and support

787
00:41:24,320 --> 00:41:26,600
Speaker 2: it by your front office, you do things like that.

788
00:41:27,400 --> 00:41:31,319
Speaker 2: And when you don't feel supported, it's more difficul although

789
00:41:31,320 --> 00:41:34,839
Speaker 2: I would have probably done it anyway, but it matters, man.

790
00:41:35,239 --> 00:41:37,719
Speaker 2: That's why it's so important for the in today's world,

791
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,879
Speaker 2: especially the GM whoever's up top president, whatever that head

792
00:41:40,920 --> 00:41:46,120
Speaker 2: guy is, the manager has to feel that support. Now, however,

793
00:41:46,200 --> 00:41:48,920
Speaker 2: having said all that, managers today are rarely going to

794
00:41:48,960 --> 00:41:50,880
Speaker 2: go rogue. They're going to follow the script. And the

795
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:54,440
Speaker 2: script is written before the game, trusts me. So anyway,

796
00:41:55,000 --> 00:41:58,600
Speaker 2: that was that the second one secret. Now this goes

797
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:01,480
Speaker 2: back to prep before the game. Our one line before

798
00:42:01,520 --> 00:42:03,399
Speaker 2: the game was we're not going to let Corey see

799
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:07,480
Speaker 2: or beat us. Right, That was it. That was the proclamation.

800
00:42:08,239 --> 00:42:11,799
Speaker 2: And okay, so does that mean I backed off because

801
00:42:11,840 --> 00:42:13,480
Speaker 2: the bases happened to be loaded to I backed off

802
00:42:13,520 --> 00:42:16,000
Speaker 2: right there? Again, there was easily I could see four

803
00:42:16,000 --> 00:42:19,000
Speaker 2: points right there. He was hot, dude. When that guy

804
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:21,759
Speaker 2: got hot, he was one of the best young left

805
00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:24,680
Speaker 2: ten hitters I've seen in a bit. And so anyway,

806
00:42:24,760 --> 00:42:27,840
Speaker 2: we did that, Now we did work out necessarily, but

807
00:42:27,880 --> 00:42:29,640
Speaker 2: we only gave up three runs and not four runs,

808
00:42:29,640 --> 00:42:32,760
Speaker 2: and at any if I remember it correctly, and eventually

809
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 2: came back and won it. And here's the other part

810
00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,239
Speaker 2: about it. When you do crazy stuff like that and

811
00:42:37,280 --> 00:42:39,640
Speaker 2: then you succeed, you know what that does in the clubhouse.

812
00:42:40,480 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 2: I mean, the guys absolutely go nuts in a good way.

813
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,640
Speaker 2: So I'm not looking for attention. I'm not looking for

814
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:49,160
Speaker 2: anything other than I'm relying on the years that I

815
00:42:49,160 --> 00:42:54,160
Speaker 2: spent in the game and my perception, my feel in

816
00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:56,280
Speaker 2: that moment, what's the right thing to do, my intuition,

817
00:42:56,320 --> 00:42:57,920
Speaker 2: what's the right thing to do right here? And not

818
00:42:58,040 --> 00:42:59,799
Speaker 2: run away from it, because there's a tough question.

819
00:43:00,880 --> 00:43:04,520
Speaker 1: Were you inspired by Buck Showalter intentionally walking Barry Bonds

820
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:07,279
Speaker 1: with the basis loaded in nineteen ninety eight? And do

821
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:11,359
Speaker 1: you remember what then Diamondbacks picture? Brian Anderson said after

822
00:43:11,400 --> 00:43:13,000
Speaker 1: that game, I.

823
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,239
Speaker 2: Do not, but I love Ba. BA took Ba with

824
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,200
Speaker 2: me to the Rays and I think was it an

825
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:20,279
Speaker 2: out right? Was it a basis writer? Was it? And out?

826
00:43:20,440 --> 00:43:21,520
Speaker 2: I can't remember what happened.

827
00:43:21,800 --> 00:43:23,520
Speaker 1: I can't remember either next.

828
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:26,600
Speaker 2: To the next hitter. I wasn't inspired by that. My

829
00:43:26,960 --> 00:43:29,399
Speaker 2: inspiration managerially, a lot of it came from Gene Moth

830
00:43:29,960 --> 00:43:32,239
Speaker 2: quite frankly, and he's another that's when I was with

831
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:35,720
Speaker 2: the Angels. Gene never went to or won a World Series,

832
00:43:35,719 --> 00:43:39,640
Speaker 2: but one of the sharpest minds I've ever been around.

833
00:43:39,719 --> 00:43:44,200
Speaker 2: Along with Whitey Herzog. Those two guys, to me were

834
00:43:44,200 --> 00:43:46,600
Speaker 2: the epitome of a major league baseball manager. Was so

835
00:43:46,760 --> 00:43:49,920
Speaker 2: fortunate because Gene used to give me a lot of latitude.

836
00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:53,319
Speaker 2: You're talking about empowerment over control. In spring trainings, Gene

837
00:43:53,360 --> 00:43:55,359
Speaker 2: had me run the butnt plays when because he saw

838
00:43:55,400 --> 00:43:57,800
Speaker 2: me run him instructionally the year before. I like the

839
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:59,880
Speaker 2: way I did it, so I got the sense Gritchie

840
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: Rodney Boonie and I think Burley at shorts up, I'm

841
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,960
Speaker 2: running but defense, you know. And I didn't think anything

842
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:08,920
Speaker 2: of it. I was too naive.

843
00:44:10,920 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: Well, the Brian Anderson was the starting pitcher that day,

844
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: and after the game he said of book show Alter,

845
00:44:17,560 --> 00:44:22,200
Speaker 1: that guy has got elephant Titus of the Nuts. Still

846
00:44:22,560 --> 00:44:25,800
Speaker 1: one of my favorite quotes of all time. And Mark's

847
00:44:25,800 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: gonna Mark's gonna close the show with another question. Go ahead, Mark, Well.

848
00:44:31,520 --> 00:44:32,919
Speaker 3: He's going to say a statement first.

849
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:33,120
Speaker 2: Uh.

850
00:44:33,280 --> 00:44:36,960
Speaker 3: You mentioned Grant Balfour. H I still need a translation

851
00:44:37,080 --> 00:44:40,120
Speaker 3: on what he was cussing me out. Uh, I got

852
00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:44,399
Speaker 3: him probably more than me. You don't understand Australian.

853
00:44:44,640 --> 00:44:45,279
Speaker 1: That's ask.

854
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:46,879
Speaker 3: All I could make out was I think he called

855
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:51,760
Speaker 3: me a washing machine or something, and Alfredo Griffin was serving,

856
00:44:51,800 --> 00:44:54,080
Speaker 3: as you know, trying to make sense of it as well.

857
00:44:54,280 --> 00:44:57,719
Speaker 3: Next day Bob Melvin strangely came up and apologized to me.

858
00:44:57,920 --> 00:45:01,359
Speaker 3: I know Grant was very very passionate, are nearly every

859
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,520
Speaker 3: Australian that I've played with. So there's just an aside.

860
00:45:04,560 --> 00:45:10,000
Speaker 3: But what's a rule change that they could do right

861
00:45:10,040 --> 00:45:14,439
Speaker 3: now to make baseball more watchable, more strategic. You've talked

862
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:17,880
Speaker 3: about Indian's limits, the three batter minimum, automated strike zones,

863
00:45:18,239 --> 00:45:21,480
Speaker 3: other things. What are your thoughts. Is there one change

864
00:45:21,480 --> 00:45:23,719
Speaker 3: in particular that you're passionate about you think would help

865
00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:24,080
Speaker 3: the game.

866
00:45:25,200 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: Yes, eliminate a lot of those strategical maneuvers. Three better minimum,

867
00:45:29,880 --> 00:45:33,640
Speaker 2: get rid of it, bigger bases, limited throwers, get rid

868
00:45:33,680 --> 00:45:36,799
Speaker 2: of it. Whi's the other one? I don't like three

869
00:45:36,800 --> 00:45:39,640
Speaker 2: batter minimum, run around second base, get rid of it,

870
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:43,840
Speaker 2: don't need them, so it would be addition through subtraction,

871
00:45:44,000 --> 00:45:46,200
Speaker 2: get the real game back. There was only one rule

872
00:45:46,239 --> 00:45:49,239
Speaker 2: change that was necessary and it's been proven out, and

873
00:45:49,280 --> 00:45:52,680
Speaker 2: that is the pitch clock and with that the evolution

874
00:45:52,800 --> 00:45:55,520
Speaker 2: of the PitchCom where pitches are called more quickly because

875
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:58,920
Speaker 2: of the little device. Those are the only two changes

876
00:45:58,960 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: that were absolutely necessary in baseball. The other stuff think

877
00:46:02,360 --> 00:46:07,520
Speaker 2: about it eliminates strategy, and so managerially speaking, it's kind

878
00:46:07,520 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: of been subtracted lesson with a managers to think about

879
00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:15,279
Speaker 2: during the course of a game. So that also is

880
00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:18,720
Speaker 2: part of the appeal to having a less experienced manager

881
00:46:18,760 --> 00:46:20,719
Speaker 2: in the dugout, because there's less for these guys to

882
00:46:20,800 --> 00:46:22,560
Speaker 2: have to keep track of during the course of a game.

883
00:46:22,800 --> 00:46:25,319
Speaker 2: So get rid of run around second get rid of

884
00:46:25,560 --> 00:46:28,000
Speaker 2: three batter minimum, get rid of the big base. Number

885
00:46:28,000 --> 00:46:30,040
Speaker 2: of throwers the first base has nothing to do with anything.

886
00:46:30,200 --> 00:46:32,319
Speaker 2: It's never been about the length of the game. It's

887
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:34,640
Speaker 2: always been about the pace of the game. So when

888
00:46:34,680 --> 00:46:38,200
Speaker 2: you start messing with strategy, then yeah, you are going

889
00:46:38,280 --> 00:46:41,000
Speaker 2: to mitigate minimize the abilities of a manager and a

890
00:46:41,080 --> 00:46:44,479
Speaker 2: dugout furthermore to me. Sorry, boys, I love the National

891
00:46:44,520 --> 00:46:47,040
Speaker 2: League game. I grew up in the America League game.

892
00:46:47,160 --> 00:46:51,399
Speaker 2: I'm telling you right now, it's more fascinating, it's more

893
00:46:51,480 --> 00:46:55,680
Speaker 2: intellectually stimulating. And I know, oh, double Switch would trust

894
00:46:55,680 --> 00:46:58,239
Speaker 2: me get into dugout, Get in a dugout when all

895
00:46:58,320 --> 00:46:59,960
Speaker 2: kinds of get a dug out in the playoff game,

896
00:47:00,320 --> 00:47:03,279
Speaker 2: when you bring in eraldis Chapman against the Dodgers in

897
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,320
Speaker 2: the seventh or eighth inning, and you move the batting

898
00:47:06,400 --> 00:47:08,560
Speaker 2: order eight spots in order to make sure that he's

899
00:47:08,600 --> 00:47:10,759
Speaker 2: going to be out there the next thing regardless, And

900
00:47:10,840 --> 00:47:12,800
Speaker 2: what happens. You get the bases loaded in two outs

901
00:47:12,800 --> 00:47:15,440
Speaker 2: and here comes Eraldus to the play and I think

902
00:47:15,480 --> 00:47:17,080
Speaker 2: it was like three two or whatever it might have

903
00:47:17,080 --> 00:47:20,359
Speaker 2: been tied, and here comes Miguel Montero. MIGGI go hit

904
00:47:20,360 --> 00:47:23,279
Speaker 2: for him, knowing that if this doesn't work, I don't

905
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: know if my bullpen can hold up. Right now, whom

906
00:47:26,400 --> 00:47:30,720
Speaker 2: two strike pitch from Blanton and Blattin was good against lefties.

907
00:47:30,719 --> 00:47:33,560
Speaker 2: Blant had that cutter that might have been the loudest

908
00:47:33,600 --> 00:47:37,719
Speaker 2: home run I ever heard at Wrigley Field. I'm just

909
00:47:37,760 --> 00:47:40,279
Speaker 2: talking about the actual contact and then of course the

910
00:47:40,360 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 2: explosion from the fans afterwards. There's so many more interesting

911
00:47:44,200 --> 00:47:46,799
Speaker 2: tidbits in that I'm time listen. This plug and play

912
00:47:46,880 --> 00:47:49,879
Speaker 2: kind of stuff is not fascinating to me. The part

913
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:51,759
Speaker 2: of the allure of the game has been mitigated by

914
00:47:51,800 --> 00:47:54,560
Speaker 2: all this, and again, think about it. Like I said earlier,

915
00:47:55,040 --> 00:47:58,320
Speaker 2: Annaly Nicks provides a safety net for decision making, okay,

916
00:47:58,600 --> 00:48:01,640
Speaker 2: because we're always going to rely on the pregame math

917
00:48:02,160 --> 00:48:05,120
Speaker 2: to choreograph the game. One reason why the World series

918
00:48:05,160 --> 00:48:07,040
Speaker 2: was so interesting to a lot of people last year

919
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,440
Speaker 2: because a lot of the analytics stuff went poom, it exploded,

920
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:13,120
Speaker 2: and guys, really the guys really had to manage both sides,

921
00:48:13,280 --> 00:48:16,320
Speaker 2: and it was really fascinating and interesting the watch. Finally,

922
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:22,760
Speaker 2: it wasn't a analytical created world series. Analytically created world series,

923
00:48:22,800 --> 00:48:26,080
Speaker 2: so think about all that. The best changes you could

924
00:48:26,080 --> 00:48:28,759
Speaker 2: be would be additioned through subtraction. We didn't need all

925
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,560
Speaker 2: those things in the first place. All we needed was

926
00:48:30,560 --> 00:48:34,560
Speaker 2: the clock. And furthermore, I'd like to see a regeneration

927
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:36,799
Speaker 2: of the minor leagues. I'd like to see the game.

928
00:48:37,800 --> 00:48:41,280
Speaker 2: I'd like to see more time spent with the nurturing

929
00:48:41,360 --> 00:48:42,719
Speaker 2: of players by the time they get to the big

930
00:48:42,800 --> 00:48:45,239
Speaker 2: leagues that they know exactly what to do and handle situations,

931
00:48:45,480 --> 00:48:47,839
Speaker 2: handle adversity. Just because a guy hits a couple homers

932
00:48:47,880 --> 00:48:49,560
Speaker 2: in the minor leagues, does I mean he's ready. I

933
00:48:49,560 --> 00:48:51,359
Speaker 2: mean there's a complete game to be played out there

934
00:48:51,360 --> 00:48:55,399
Speaker 2: that's being absolutely abused and not concerned about. How about

935
00:48:55,440 --> 00:48:58,360
Speaker 2: the Milwaukee Brewers last year, asked Murph. Murph is outstanding

936
00:48:58,680 --> 00:49:00,879
Speaker 2: and look with the Bluejay. He's actually played a better

937
00:49:00,880 --> 00:49:04,600
Speaker 2: game last year too. Murph right now as a and

938
00:49:04,640 --> 00:49:08,160
Speaker 2: I stay in touch with him. He does it in

939
00:49:08,239 --> 00:49:11,600
Speaker 2: a way that I think any real baseball life, in

940
00:49:11,600 --> 00:49:15,600
Speaker 2: a real baseball fiction auto could appreciate. That's how it's

941
00:49:15,600 --> 00:49:18,040
Speaker 2: supposed to look, the way that Brewers are doing right now.

942
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,640
Speaker 1: All right, with that, we're gonna close today's show. Joe Madden,

943
00:49:23,080 --> 00:49:26,120
Speaker 1: former Halo's manager, always enjoy to catch up with you.

944
00:49:26,239 --> 00:49:30,600
Speaker 1: Really appreciate your time. Please like and subscribe, and that's

945
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:32,479
Speaker 1: gonna do it for us. We'll see you next time

946
00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:53,040
Speaker 1: on Halo Territory, part of the Foul Territory network.

947
00:49:40,560 --> 00:49:40,600
Speaker 2: M