Speaker 1: Welcome in his verdict with Senator Ted Kruz ben Ferguson
Speaker 1: with you as always Happy Monday, and Senator it is
Speaker 1: a prediction that you predicted a few weeks ago, and
Speaker 1: it's dealing with Columbia University, but it's also dealing with
Speaker 1: students that are anti Israel, anti Semitic, and now Donald
Speaker 1: Trump is paying off on one of his promises.
Speaker 2: You know, there's a phrase that's gone viral online. It's
Speaker 2: fa fo And I got to say, there are a
Speaker 2: whole lot of anti Israel, anti Semitic radicals that are
Speaker 2: finding out what that means. And there are also a
Speaker 2: lot of Ivy League administrators and professors who are finding
Speaker 2: out what it means. You and I we interviewed on
Speaker 2: this podcast. Pambondi, the Attorney General in front of SEAPAC,
Speaker 2: we interviewed live and I predicted in that interview, I said,
Speaker 2: the Trump administration is going to go after universities that
Speaker 2: allow these radical anti Israel pro Hamas anti Semitic protests,
Speaker 2: and they're going to go after them in a couple
Speaker 2: of fronts. Number One, it is existing federal law under
Speaker 2: Title six of the Civil Rights Laws that you cannot
Speaker 2: create an environment that is hostile, that is discriminating against
Speaker 2: people based on ethnicity or faith. And when you have
Speaker 2: universities like Columbia and much of the rest of the
Speaker 2: Ivy League that are allowing Jewish students to be afraid
Speaker 2: for their lives. The Columbia Orthodox Rabbi, in the midst
Speaker 2: of the very worst protest after October seventh, sent out
Speaker 2: an email to the Jewish students on campus and said,
Speaker 2: do not come into campus. You are not safe. Colombia
Speaker 2: will not protect you. And what you and I predicted
Speaker 2: on this podcast with Attorney General Pambondi is the Trump
Speaker 2: Department of Justice is going to come after these universities
Speaker 2: and cut off their funds. And I said, you know what,
Speaker 2: first in line is Columbia University because they've been the
Speaker 2: most brazen about it. And I predicted second that we
Speaker 2: are going to see these anti Semitic protesters who are foreigners,
Speaker 2: We're going to see their visas revoked, and we're going
Speaker 2: to see them deported. Well, all of that is happening
Speaker 2: right now. This past week the news broke the Trump
Speaker 2: administration is cutting off four hundred million dollars in federal
Speaker 2: funding to Columbia University, claiming that it has failed to
Speaker 2: take steps to confront anti Semitism on campus after Hamas's
Speaker 2: October seventh attack on Israel. The cuts represent the federal
Speaker 2: government's first round of grant cancellations for Columbia. According to
Speaker 2: the administration's newly formed Anti Semitism Task Force, which is
Speaker 2: leading the effort, Columbia has over five billion dollars let
Speaker 2: me repeat that again, five billion dollars in active federal
Speaker 2: grants that are being reviewed by the government. So four
Speaker 2: hundred million dollars has already been cut off, and they've
Speaker 2: got a total of five billion dollars in federal grants
Speaker 2: that are potentially on the chopping block. And let's be clear,
Speaker 2: Colombia is just the first of those. But not only that.
Speaker 2: On top of that, the news was broken in recent
Speaker 2: hours that immigration agents arrest Palestinian activists who helped lead
Speaker 2: the Columbia University protests. The Associated Press is reporting quote
Speaker 2: federal immigration authorities arrested a Palestinian activists Saturday who played
Speaker 2: a prominent role in Columbia University's protest against Israel, a
Speaker 2: significant escalation in the Trump administration's pledge to detain and
Speaker 2: deport student activists. Mahmoud Khalil, a graduate student at Columbia
Speaker 2: until this past December, was inside his university owned department
Speaker 2: Saturday night when several Immigration and Customs Enforcement agents entered
Speaker 2: and took him into custody. His attorney, Amy Greer Toward
Speaker 2: told the Associated Press. Greer says she spoke by phone
Speaker 2: with one of the ICE agents during the arrest, who
Speaker 2: said they were acting on the State Department orders to
Speaker 2: revoke Khalil's student visa. Informed by the attorney that was
Speaker 2: in the United States as a permanent resident with a
Speaker 2: green card, the agents said they were revoking that instead,
Speaker 2: according to the lawyer, as I mentioned Ben fa Fo.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it really is incredible, and we got to remind
Speaker 1: people how we got to this point, and a lot
Speaker 1: of it was a revolving around when those three university
Speaker 1: presidents went to Capitol Hill and even CBS News talking
Speaker 1: about how the Columbia University president resigned after all this
Speaker 1: anti semitism was allowed on campus. Here is how CBS
Speaker 1: This Morning put it when it happened.
Speaker 3: Another high profile college leader has resigned after the campus
Speaker 3: unrust that we saw last spring. Columbia University president Manuch
Speaker 3: Chaffique had been roundly criticized for her response to the
Speaker 3: pro Palestinian demonstrations on that campus. The new school year
Speaker 3: begins in just three weeks, so why now is the question.
Speaker 3: As Tom Hansen reports, Chaffique is a third Ivy League
Speaker 3: president to step down in connection to protests against the
Speaker 3: war in Gaza.
Speaker 4: Nearly four months after fierce protests over the Israel Hamas
Speaker 4: war ripped Columbia University and backlashed by students, faculty, and
Speaker 4: lawmakers alike over her testimony on Capitol Hill.
Speaker 5: Anti Semitism has no place on our campus and I
Speaker 5: am personally committed to doing everything I can.
Speaker 4: The school's president, Menu Schaffique, stepped down Wednesday, just one
Speaker 4: year into the role. In her resignation letter, Shaffik cited
Speaker 4: the turbulent period, saying it had been quote a period
Speaker 4: of turmoil where it has been difficult to overcome divergent
Speaker 4: views across our community. Columbia University's encampment was the epicenter
Speaker 4: of pro Palestinian protests across college campuses last spring. At times,
Speaker 4: those demonstrations took a violent turn and resulted in mass arrests.
Speaker 4: After Shaffik twice called in the NYPD to dismantle the
Speaker 4: tent city, and culminating with hundreds of police office users
Speaker 4: moving in to clear out protesters that occupied a campus building.
Speaker 4: Shaffik's actions prompted criticism not just from pro Palestinian students,
Speaker 4: but also Jewish students who said they lived in fear
Speaker 4: on campus.
Speaker 6: When they harangue us with chance of from the river
Speaker 6: to the sea. Schaffique doesn't want us to believe our
Speaker 6: own eyes and.
Speaker 4: Ears, resulting in calls for her to step down, including
Speaker 4: from lawmakers who visited Columbia during the protests.
Speaker 3: I am here today joining my colleagues and calling on
Speaker 3: President Schaffique to resign.
Speaker 4: Republican House Speaker Mike Johnson, in a social media post
Speaker 4: last night, wrote, Jewish students at Columbia beginning this school
Speaker 4: year should breathe a sigh of relief for CBS Mornings.
Speaker 4: I'm Tom Hanson.
Speaker 1: When CBS News says that you're the epicenter referring to
Speaker 1: Columbia University of all of the worst protests, you know
Speaker 1: it was bad, and not only has you heard Speaker
Speaker 1: Johnson called for to resign, you called center for several
Speaker 1: of these presidents of university to resign as well, and
Speaker 1: that was certainly said in the right direction. But now
Speaker 1: we're seeing the payoff from what Trump promised on the
Speaker 1: campaign trail.
Speaker 2: Well, sure, and you go back to last year when
Speaker 2: you had the presidents of Harvard, Mit, and Penn all
Speaker 2: testify in the House. It will go down in history
Speaker 2: as the most disaster disastrous House testimony I think that's
Speaker 2: ever happened. Within two weeks, two of the three university presidents,
Speaker 2: Harvard and Penn both resigned. It was a hearing on
Speaker 2: anti semitism where they basically explained they gave lots of
Speaker 2: academic jumblie joke, but it's essentially what they were saying
Speaker 2: is anti semitism. We don't know what it is, we
Speaker 2: don't care to stop it because we're leftists, and that's
Speaker 2: what universities are all about. And their complete obliviousness to
Speaker 2: creating a hostile environment where a significant percentage of their students,
Speaker 2: their lives and safety are in danger. It was really
Speaker 2: astonishing and it's the fruit of the ideological rot that
Speaker 2: has happened in our college campuses. Look, I've told the
Speaker 2: story before of about a year ago I was meeting
Speaker 2: with a very successful Silicon Valley entrepreneur, a man of
Speaker 2: the left, a Democrat, who was expressing bewilderment. He says, said,
Speaker 2: where is all of this hatred, this anti Semitism, this
Speaker 2: anti Americanism on college campuses? Where is it coming from?
Speaker 2: And I told him I referenced the last book I wrote, Unwoke,
Speaker 2: How to Defeat Cultural Marxism in America, And I said, listen,
Speaker 2: this is the fruits of cultural Marxism that have taken
Speaker 2: over our universities and our institutions. And it goes back
Speaker 2: to the nineteen sixties and seventies, sadly, to Mi alma mater,
Speaker 2: to Harvard, where you had Marxist that came on to
Speaker 2: the faculty and they began teaching and dividing the world
Speaker 2: into a Marxist dichotomy where everyone falls into one of
Speaker 2: two categories. You were either an oppressor or a victim.
Speaker 2: And to the modern day leftist Jews are categorized as oppressors.
Speaker 2: And importantly, I did not say Israelis. I said Jews.
Speaker 2: If you are Jewish to a leftist, you are an
Speaker 2: impressor period the end, and Palestinians in that taxonomy are
Speaker 2: categorized as victims, and once you slot them into those
Speaker 2: two categories, the leftist Marxist ideology as they support the
Speaker 2: violent revolutionary overthrow by the victims of the oppressors. Which
Speaker 2: is why you saw so many left wing radicals cheering
Speaker 2: on the Hamas terrorists who murdered twelve hundred people on
Speaker 2: October seventh, who raped little girls and women, and you
Speaker 2: had these leftist radicals cheering them on our academic campuses.
Speaker 2: Are so sick. This is the ideology that is being
Speaker 2: taught to our children.
Speaker 1: It really is. And this is something that you guys
Speaker 1: have also been focused on on Capitol Hill when it
Speaker 1: comes to calling out the Biden administration for doing nothing
Speaker 1: about the anti Semitic protests that took place on our
Speaker 1: college campuses. And part of this is you got to
Speaker 1: have a spotlight on it.
Speaker 2: Yep. So this past week, the Senate Judiciary Committee had
Speaker 2: a hearing on anti Semitism. Now, you might think, given
Speaker 2: the massive rise in anti Semitism, particularly following October seventh,
Speaker 2: given the acts of violence against Jews across America, you
Speaker 2: might think the Senate Judiciary Committee would be looking at this.
Speaker 2: Do you know how many hearings we had on anti Semitism.
Speaker 2: When the Democrats had the gavel.
Speaker 1: I'm going to go out and a lemon, say zero.
Speaker 2: Wow, you got it precisely right to the one hundred
Speaker 2: deciml point that would be zero point zero zero zero.
Speaker 2: They do not at all.
Speaker 1: If you listen every day, I don't get these trick questions.
Speaker 2: Right, even a blind squirrel, not a one. So a
Speaker 2: month into the new Congress, Republicans of the majority, we
Speaker 2: held a hearing this past week on anti Semitism. The
Speaker 2: Democrats were terrified. They didn't want to talk about it,
Speaker 2: but but I took the opportunity. Listen. I gotta say,
Speaker 2: this issue pisses me off what we've seen happen to
Speaker 2: our school, and so I want you to listen to
Speaker 2: my questioning of the witnesses and what I had to
Speaker 2: say last week at the hearing on anti Semitism. Give
Speaker 2: a listen. Anti Semitism is evil, it is wrong, and
Speaker 2: it is flourishing with the acquiescence and in many cases
Speaker 2: active participation of student of students, of faculty, of administrators,
Speaker 2: and government officials. And sadly, the Democrat Party has a
Speaker 2: deep and pervasive problem confronting this evil for the last
Speaker 2: two years. In the wake of October seventh, this committee
Speaker 2: held zero hearings on anti Semitism in the United States,
Speaker 2: despite the fact that Republicans repeatedly called for it the
Speaker 2: acts of violence. Prior to October seventh, three thousand, six
Speaker 2: hundred and sixty nine anti sentemitic incidents occurred in the
Speaker 2: United States. Following October seventh, in less than three months,
Speaker 2: that number spiked over five thousand. In twenty twenty four,
Speaker 2: that number skyrocketed to ten thousand and five anti Semitic incidents.
Speaker 2: This problem is particularly acute on our college campuses Columbia University.
Speaker 2: Columbia University was a major epicenter where they encouraged, tolerated,
Speaker 2: and celebrated this vicious and vile anti semitism. Rabbi Eli
Speaker 2: Buehler emailed every Jewish student on campus and said quote,
Speaker 2: the events of the last few days have made it
Speaker 2: clear that Columbia University's public safety cannot guarantee Jewish student
Speaker 2: safety in the face of extreme anti semitism and anarchy.
Speaker 2: I would strongly recommend you return home. This is the
Speaker 2: rabbi at the university saying your school will not protect
Speaker 2: your safety, and Colombia didn't do a damn thing about it. No,
Speaker 2: I'll tell you what the rabbi wasn't crazy. Here is
Speaker 2: one picture taken on the campus of Columbia. In the
Speaker 2: back are Jewish students waving American flags and Israeli flags.
Speaker 2: In the front is a Columbia student wearing a mask.
Speaker 2: Because these cowards are oh so brave, they cover their faces,
Speaker 2: holding a handwritten sign that says al Cassam's next targets.
Speaker 2: Al Casam is the military branch of Hamas. Understand what
Speaker 2: this student is saying. She is calling for the murder
Speaker 2: of her Jewish classmates. And by the way, this student,
Speaker 2: the internet being what it is, she's been identified now
Speaker 2: on the Internet. This is not a Palestinian who's subject
Speaker 2: to oppression. This is a rich, blonde girl from Atlanta
Speaker 2: whose parents are multimillionaire real estate developers. And they got
Speaker 2: so proud. I'm sending my child to an Ivy League
Speaker 2: education where she'll be indoctrinated to dress up and advocate
Speaker 2: Hamas murdering Jewish students because they are Jews. Now, if
Speaker 2: you agree that is evil and vile, let me ask
Speaker 2: you something. We're the Democrats. Not a one is here,
Speaker 2: and it's because the Democrat Party has decided the pro
Speaker 2: Hamas wing of the party is more important than protecting
Speaker 2: Jewish students in America. And if you don't believe me,
Speaker 2: maybe you'll believe Chuck Schumer. Chuck Schumer, texting with Columbia,
Speaker 2: said the following On January fourth, then President of Columbia's
Speaker 2: Shaffick explained to Shipman and her fellow co chair David
Speaker 2: Greenwald that she had met with Majority leader Chuck Schumer,
Speaker 2: who advised Shaefik that university's political problems about anti Semitism
Speaker 2: are really only among Republicans. We the Democrats, we don't
Speaker 2: care about this anti Semitism stuff. Ms Lewin, am I
Speaker 2: the only person that has noticed that these anti Israel,
Speaker 2: pro Hamas anti Semitic protests, that the tents all match.
Speaker 5: No, you are not the only ones who have noticed.
Speaker 2: Is it clear that there is significant money funding these
Speaker 2: attacks on Jewish students and attacks on America.
Speaker 5: It is clear that there is coordination and there must
Speaker 5: be some common funding.
Speaker 2: In the last two years under the Biden Justice Department.
Speaker 2: Are you aware of any investigation to follow the money
Speaker 2: behind these protests.
Speaker 5: I am not.
Speaker 2: Are you aware of anyone who has been indicted for
Speaker 2: funding these protests?
Speaker 6: I am not.
Speaker 2: Are you aware of any university that has had their
Speaker 2: Title six federal funds cut off because they've tolerated welcome,
Speaker 2: celebrated in the center holly put out, had their own
Speaker 2: officials cheering on anti semitism. Has even one university lost
Speaker 2: their funding?
Speaker 5: I am not aware of any university having actually lost
Speaker 5: their fund.
Speaker 2: And I'll point out also some of the defenders say
Speaker 2: free speech, free speech. You're right, you have a free
Speaker 2: speech writer as an American citizen to say vile, hateful,
Speaker 2: bigoted things. Let me ask you something. If a university
Speaker 2: student went into the public square dressed up in a
Speaker 2: clan outfit, burned across and said we should murder African
Speaker 2: American students, do you have any a doubt the university
Speaker 2: would expel that student.
Speaker 5: I am secarely certain that the universities would take action
Speaker 5: and ensure that the policies.
Speaker 2: They should expel them. If they're foreign students, they should
Speaker 2: be deported. And mark my words, if you were horrified
Speaker 2: at the anti semitism, you will see the Trump Department
Speaker 2: of Justice follow the money Prosecute the people who are
Speaker 2: paying for this, Prosecute those engaged in violence, and cut
Speaker 2: off the money from universities that are tolerating and celebrating this.
Speaker 2: That is the rule of law. And ask yourself, why
Speaker 2: did the Biden Justice Department do absolutely nothing about this
Speaker 2: horror that is unfolding center.
Speaker 1: It was unbelievable to hear you call it out, and
Speaker 1: I do think we just have to remind people this
Speaker 1: is systematic on our college campuses, especially the IVY leagues.
Speaker 1: I go back in my head to Harvard and just
Speaker 1: a defiance of some of these individuals when they were
Speaker 1: testifying before Congress. They had no problem standing with these
Speaker 1: anti Semitic protesters.
Speaker 2: Look, because they believe the same things that the administrators.
Speaker 2: They have been teaching the same poison, the faculty has
Speaker 2: been teaching the same poison. And I'll note that that
Speaker 2: clip you played while I was questioning at the hearing
Speaker 2: of anti semitism, as I noted, not a single Democrat
Speaker 2: senator was in the room. The hearing room was empty,
Speaker 2: and that really spoke volumes that they don't want to
Speaker 2: talk about this, and the problem is a political problem
Speaker 2: in today's Democrat party. There is a real and meaningful
Speaker 2: pro Hamas wing of the Democrat Party, and the Democrats
Speaker 2: are terrified of that pro Hamas wing of the Democrat Party.
Speaker 2: The question I've asked repeatedly, and look, most of the
Speaker 2: people who listened to Verdict are I think politically right
Speaker 2: of center, are conservative or libertarians. But we actually have
Speaker 2: fair number of reporters who listened to Verdict, and you know,
Speaker 2: I'm hoping we have a handful of open minded, free
Speaker 2: thinking liberals, people who consider themselves left of center, but
Speaker 2: recognize that if you want to actually have an intelligent
Speaker 2: understanding of the issues, then you want to hear from
Speaker 2: a wide spectrum of views and try to process and
Speaker 2: ascertain what is right. If you at home are one
Speaker 2: of those, Let's say you're a Democrat who lives in
Speaker 2: New York City. Let's say you voted for Kamala Harris,
Speaker 2: you voted for Joe Biden, maybe you voted for Barack Obama.
Speaker 2: If you disagree with the Prohamas wing of the Democrat Party,
Speaker 2: if you don't like the vile anti Semites that have
Speaker 2: flourished on college campuses and that have threatened the safety
Speaker 2: of Jewish students, you ought to ask yourself, very seriously,
Speaker 2: what happened in the last week Columbia got its money
Speaker 2: cut off? A one of the organizers of the protests
Speaker 2: is going to be deported. Why didn't any of that
Speaker 2: happen under Joe Biden? There was nothing to prevent the
Speaker 2: Biden administration from doing this. They had every bit of
Speaker 2: legal authority. As far as I can tell, they didn't
Speaker 2: even investigate it. They didn't ask where the money came from.
Speaker 2: I certainly asked the Attorney General in the FBI repeatedly
Speaker 2: if they were doing that, if they were investigating it.
Speaker 2: They refused to tell the Senate. They refused to tell me.
Speaker 2: And we do know that no one paid any consequences
Speaker 2: for it because no one was indicted, and that ends
Speaker 2: up encouraging more of this. And you have to ask yourself,
Speaker 2: was that an accident or was there a reason? Listen,
Speaker 2: if Kamala Harris, god forbid, had been elected president November, Ben,
Speaker 2: let me ask you this, what do you think of
Speaker 2: the odds Columbia would have had that four hundred million
Speaker 2: cut off if Kamala Harris were president?
Speaker 6: No, zero percent?
Speaker 1: And I bet you the anti Semitism would explode on
Speaker 1: college chemists is because they would not have any worries
Speaker 1: at trunction.
Speaker 2: She might be marching with the Prohamas protesters. And by
Speaker 2: the way, this organizer who's being deported, the odds of
Speaker 2: his being deported if Kamala were president are zero. Elections
Speaker 2: have consequences, and this issue, this issue matters.
Speaker 1: So let's talk about this one student and expand on
Speaker 1: that just for a second, because I do think this
Speaker 1: is probably, in my opinion, more than just a quote example.
Speaker 1: For me, this looks like this is the beginning. This
Speaker 1: isn't just a one off. I think it's very clear
Speaker 1: that Trump administration is saying if you were here as
Speaker 1: a student on a visa and you go out and
Speaker 1: you participate in this, yes there's going to be accountability.
Speaker 1: We're not screwing around. I don't think this is the
Speaker 1: last time we're going to see this.
Speaker 2: Well, and there was an example I use in my
Speaker 2: Senate questioning that I want to flesh out a little
Speaker 2: bit because some people will say free speech, free speech,
Speaker 2: and it is absolutely right that an American citizen has
Speaker 2: a right to engage in free speech and to say
Speaker 2: things that are horrible, that are bigoted, that are hateful.
Speaker 2: You have a right to say that. I will defend
Speaker 2: your right to say that, but it doesn't mean that
Speaker 2: you are entitled to be immune from the consequences of
Speaker 2: what you say. And so one example I gave if
Speaker 2: you're a university student, and let's say a university student
Speaker 2: dressed in a clan outfit and went on to campus
Speaker 2: and burned across and began screaming that we should murder
Speaker 2: all the African American students. If that university student was
Speaker 2: an American citizen, he or she would have a First
Speaker 2: Amendment right to say that. But I think the odds
Speaker 2: are one hundred percent the university would expel them. There
Speaker 2: could be consequences for your speech when they are so
Speaker 2: vile and hateful. And if someone did that, advocating for
Speaker 2: the murder of their fellow students, they would be expelled. Now,
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be incarcerated. It is not a crime to
Speaker 2: say that. But a university would be with it its
Speaker 2: rights to say that we are not going to tolerate
Speaker 2: this level of hate directed our fellow students. That is
Speaker 2: what the Prohamas protesters were saying when they said from
Speaker 2: the River to the Sea, when they said at the
Speaker 2: University of Washington to Jewish students, you go back to
Speaker 2: the ovens. They were arguing. When that Columbius woman held
Speaker 2: the sign saying al Cassom's next target, pointing at Jewish students,
Speaker 2: they were arguing for their fellow students to be murdered
Speaker 2: in this instance because they are Jews. A university is
Speaker 2: fully within its right to expel that student for doing so. Now, Secondly,
Speaker 2: if someone is not a US citizen, if they are
Speaker 2: on a student visa, a student visa is a privilege.
Speaker 2: It is the United States making the decision. We think
Speaker 2: it is beneficial to us to let you come to
Speaker 2: our country and study in our schools. It is a
Speaker 2: permissive grant. And if you are organizing radical protests and
Speaker 2: harassing Jewish students with vicious anti semitism and mind you,
Speaker 2: vicious anti Americanism, these bastards are burning American flags while
Speaker 2: in many instances taking federal money in student aid and
Speaker 2: basking the protection of the federal government. Listen, I am
Speaker 2: confident this guy is not the first foreigner who has
Speaker 2: been a radical who's been admitted under the Obama administration
Speaker 2: and Biden administration. Who's going to have his visa revoked,
Speaker 2: and who's going to be deported and he should. It
Speaker 2: doesn't mean that an American who said that says this
Speaker 2: would go to jail for saying it. But there are
Speaker 2: consequences for speech, and that is entirely consistent with protecting
Speaker 2: robust free speech.
Speaker 1: Well, let's remind people, because I do think it's so
Speaker 1: important that people just remember where this started. And I
Speaker 1: want to go back to the Harvard president over the
Speaker 1: students calling and you mentioned this for Intifada on campus.
Speaker 1: It was a very simple question. She was asked by
Speaker 1: lisaphonic and it didn't go well. And that's where I
Speaker 1: think there was that first moment for many Americans that
Speaker 1: couldn't believe, as you described it, of these radical extremists
Speaker 1: taking over our IVY leagues, taking over our college campuses,
Speaker 1: beneath the IVY leagues, and indoctrinating people with this type
Speaker 1: of hate. Let's go back to twenty twenty three. This
Speaker 1: was back in December. On December fifth of twenty twenty three.
Speaker 7: Doctor gay, a Harvard student calling for the mass murder
Speaker 7: of African Americans is not protected free speech at Harvard.
Speaker 6: Correct our commitment to it's a yes or no question.
Speaker 6: Is that corrected?
Speaker 7: Is that okay for students to call for the mass
Speaker 7: murder of African Americans at Harvard?
Speaker 6: Is that protected free speech?
Speaker 8: Our commitment to free school.
Speaker 6: It's a yes or no question. Let me ask you this.
Speaker 7: You are president of Harvard, so I assume you're familiar
Speaker 7: with the term into fada.
Speaker 6: Correct.
Speaker 8: I've heard that term, yes.
Speaker 7: And you understand that the use of the term into
Speaker 7: fada in the context of the Israeli Arab conflict is
Speaker 7: indeed a call for violent arm resistance against the state
Speaker 7: of Israel, including violence against civilians and the genocide of Jews.
Speaker 6: Are you aware of that.
Speaker 8: That type of hateful speech is personally abhorrent to me?
Speaker 7: And there have been multiple marches at Harvard with students chanting, quote,
Speaker 7: there is only one solution into fada revolution and quote
Speaker 7: globalize the into fada.
Speaker 6: Is that correct?
Speaker 8: I've heard that thoughtless, reckless and hateful language on our campus.
Speaker 7: So based upon your testimony, you understand that this call
Speaker 7: for intifada is to commit genocide against the Jewish people
Speaker 7: in Israel and globally.
Speaker 6: Correct.
Speaker 8: I will say again that type of hateful speech is
Speaker 8: personally abhorrent to me.
Speaker 7: Do you believe that type of hateful speech is contrary
Speaker 7: to Harvard's code of conduct?
Speaker 6: Or is it allowed at Harvard?
Speaker 8: It is at odds with the values of Harvard.
Speaker 7: Can you not say here that it is against the
Speaker 7: code of conduct at Harvard?
Speaker 8: We embrace a commitment to free expression, even of views
Speaker 8: that are objectionable, offensive, hateful. It's when that speech crosses
Speaker 8: into conduct that violates our policies against bullying?
Speaker 6: Does that speech not cross that barrier?
Speaker 7: Does that speech not call for the genocide of Jews
Speaker 7: and the elimination of Israel? When you testify that you
Speaker 7: understand that is the definition of into fada? Is that
Speaker 7: speech according to the code of conduct or not?
Speaker 8: We embrace a commitment to free expression and give a
Speaker 8: wide berth to free expression, even of views that are objectionable.
Speaker 6: You and I both know that's not the case.
Speaker 7: You are aware that Harvard ranked dead last when it
Speaker 7: came to free speech?
Speaker 6: Are you not aware of that report?
Speaker 8: As I observed earlier, I reject that characterization.
Speaker 6: It's the data shows it's true.
Speaker 7: And isn't it true that Harvard previously rescinded multiple offers
Speaker 7: of admissions for applicants and accepted freshmen for sharing offensive memes,
Speaker 7: racist statements, sometimes as young as sixteen years old. Did
Speaker 7: Harvard not rescind those offers of admission?
Speaker 8: That long predates my time as president, But.
Speaker 7: You understand that Harvard made that decision to rescin those
Speaker 7: offers of admission.
Speaker 8: I have no reason to contradict the facts as you
Speaker 8: present them.
Speaker 6: Correct, because it's a fact.
Speaker 7: You're also aware that a Winthrop House faculty dean was
Speaker 7: let go over for who he chose to legally represent.
Speaker 6: Correct, that was while you were dean.
Speaker 8: That is an incorrect characterization. Avoid transfer.
Speaker 6: What's the characterization?
Speaker 8: I'm not going to get into details about a personnel matter.
Speaker 7: Well, let me ask you this, Will admissions offers be
Speaker 7: rescinded or any disciplinary action be taken against students or
Speaker 7: applicants who say from the River to the sea or
Speaker 7: into Fada advocating for the murder of Jews?
Speaker 8: As I've said, that type of hateful, reckless, offensive speech
Speaker 8: is personally abhorrent to me.
Speaker 6: And today that no action will be taken.
Speaker 8: What action will be taken when speech crosses into conduct
Speaker 8: that violates our policies, including policies against bullying, harassment, or intimidation,
Speaker 8: we take action, and we have robust disciplinary processes that
Speaker 8: allow us to hold individuals accountable.
Speaker 7: What action has been taken against students who are harassing
Speaker 7: and calling for the genocide of Jews on Harvard's campus.
Speaker 8: I can assure you we have robust.
Speaker 6: What actions have been taken.
Speaker 7: I'm not askingations underway, I'm asking what actions have been
Speaker 7: taken against and students.
Speaker 8: Given students' rights to privacy and our obligations under FURPA,
Speaker 8: I will not say more about any specific cases other
Speaker 8: than to reiterate that processes are ongoing.
Speaker 6: Do you know what the number one hate crime in
Speaker 6: America is?
Speaker 8: I know that over the last couple of months there
Speaker 8: has been an alarming rise of anti Semitism, which I
Speaker 8: understand is the critical topic that we are here to discuss.
Speaker 6: That's correct it.
Speaker 1: I'm just going to stop it there, and I think
Speaker 1: it's so important just to remind people of where we were.
Speaker 1: And as you mentioned, Senator, elections have consequences. The good
Speaker 1: news is she's no longer the president.
Speaker 2: And that testimony ended her tenure within days. Any immediate
Speaker 2: fallout of that testimony, she lost her job. Now, mind you,
Speaker 2: Harvard gave her a cushy job paying her nine hundred
Speaker 2: thousand dollars a year, so they're still she's just not
Speaker 2: the president anymore. But they didn't run very far.
Speaker 1: No, and others at least lost their jobs being in charge.
Speaker 1: But like you said, I still think there's a lot
Speaker 1: of this on college campuses. I still think it would
Speaker 1: be flourishing if we didn't have Donald Trump in office.
Speaker 1: And that's why this moment for us to not, as
Speaker 1: I would say, stop, shine the light on this is
Speaker 1: so vitally important. Fully agree, don't forget. We do the
Speaker 1: show Monday, Wednesday and Friday. Hit that subscriber auto download
Speaker 1: button wherever you get your podcasts. We will keep talking
Speaker 1: about these important issues even after the media stops and
Speaker 1: moves on to something else, because it is important and
Speaker 1: the Senate and I will see you back here on
Speaker 1: Wednesday morning.