1 00:00:00,840 --> 00:00:04,400 Speaker 1: You're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. Catch us 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:07,480 Speaker 1: live weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, the 3 00:00:07,600 --> 00:00:10,520 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. We're listen 4 00:00:10,600 --> 00:00:15,440 Speaker 1: on demand wherever you get your podcast. So the budget 5 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:17,840 Speaker 1: has dropped. I feel like we could call this the 6 00:00:18,120 --> 00:00:21,480 Speaker 1: build back budget, as it revives a number of big 7 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:23,520 Speaker 1: ideas from what we used to call build back better. 8 00:00:23,600 --> 00:00:25,599 Speaker 1: Can you think back that far? You'll see why in 9 00:00:25,640 --> 00:00:28,040 Speaker 1: a second. But the look, the ink is barely dry 10 00:00:28,040 --> 00:00:29,280 Speaker 1: on this. I'm going to run through a couple of 11 00:00:29,320 --> 00:00:32,040 Speaker 1: things that you need to know. Okay, six point nine 12 00:00:32,080 --> 00:00:35,640 Speaker 1: trillion dollar budget. It would increase discretionary spending by five percent, 13 00:00:36,120 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 1: defense spending by three percent, non defense spending by more 14 00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,680 Speaker 1: than seven percent. Now, these are all going to be 15 00:00:42,680 --> 00:00:46,040 Speaker 1: a problem when this lands on Capitol Hill because remembering 16 00:00:46,240 --> 00:00:49,880 Speaker 1: House Republicans actually want to see counts, specifically in defense, 17 00:00:49,920 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 1: while it's going up, as I mentioned, three percent to 18 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: eight hundred and eighty six billion dollars in this plan, 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:58,279 Speaker 1: Hold your breath here, it would hike taxes by more 20 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:02,160 Speaker 1: than five trillion dollars, twenty five percent tax on billionaires. 21 00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: To put it all together, for you here, nearly doubling 22 00:01:04,240 --> 00:01:07,760 Speaker 1: the capital gains tax, hiking the corporate tax rate to 23 00:01:07,920 --> 00:01:12,080 Speaker 1: twenty eight percent, and hiking the personal income tax rate 24 00:01:12,080 --> 00:01:14,080 Speaker 1: for those making over four hundred thousand dollars a year. 25 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,520 Speaker 1: That would be consistent with what we've heard time and 26 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:19,479 Speaker 1: again from this White House, essentially undoing the Trump tax 27 00:01:19,520 --> 00:01:25,319 Speaker 1: cuts from way back in twenty seventeen. Okay. Also, by 28 00:01:25,319 --> 00:01:27,120 Speaker 1: the way of interest to the Bloomberg audience, the plan 29 00:01:27,200 --> 00:01:29,720 Speaker 1: would eliminate the carried interest tax break. We've heard about 30 00:01:29,760 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 1: that before. Couldn't get it through Congress when Democrats own 31 00:01:33,600 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 1: the place and would cut a tax break for crypto investors. 32 00:01:39,280 --> 00:01:44,080 Speaker 1: The stalwart must be twitching somewhere. The rule allowing for 33 00:01:44,160 --> 00:01:47,720 Speaker 1: tax loss harvesting goes away in this plan. Tax incentives 34 00:01:47,760 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: for big fossil fuel companies would also be cut, all right, 35 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:53,760 Speaker 1: So that's where we are. This is the statement of values, 36 00:01:53,840 --> 00:01:55,880 Speaker 1: as they call it at the White House says, not 37 00:01:55,960 --> 00:01:58,000 Speaker 1: going to be the final version, but you're going to 38 00:01:58,080 --> 00:02:02,560 Speaker 1: hear people call it doa you know, there won't. This 39 00:02:02,600 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: is actually the beginning of a conversation. The question is, well, 40 00:02:05,800 --> 00:02:08,880 Speaker 1: the White House actually have a conversation about it. With 41 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 1: Kevin McCarthy, knowing that the debt ceiling debate is hanging 42 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,639 Speaker 1: over this whole thing. We can no longer ignore the 43 00:02:14,760 --> 00:02:19,080 Speaker 1: major problem that we have, the size of our debt. 44 00:02:19,240 --> 00:02:21,080 Speaker 1: That was just last night the Speaker of the House, 45 00:02:21,120 --> 00:02:22,359 Speaker 1: he said, wait, I thought we were going to have 46 00:02:22,400 --> 00:02:25,960 Speaker 1: a deal here right on spending controls before we raise 47 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,959 Speaker 1: the debt limit. He's had one meeting at the White House. 48 00:02:29,040 --> 00:02:31,640 Speaker 1: We don't know when if there'll be another. Karine Jean Pierre, 49 00:02:31,639 --> 00:02:34,600 Speaker 1: the Press Secretary, yesterday in the briefing room. We have 50 00:02:34,639 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: called on Republicans in the House to do the same, 51 00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:40,400 Speaker 1: to be transparent, to lay out exactly what it is 52 00:02:40,440 --> 00:02:43,000 Speaker 1: that they how they want to move forward with the 53 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,680 Speaker 1: fiscal year. One of the things that we have heard 54 00:02:46,720 --> 00:02:48,919 Speaker 1: from them is how they want to continue or want 55 00:02:48,919 --> 00:02:52,520 Speaker 1: to cut Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, and an ACA. Not 56 00:02:52,600 --> 00:02:54,560 Speaker 1: that we've seen a plan. We don't know exactly when 57 00:02:54,600 --> 00:02:56,839 Speaker 1: we'll get when. Mid April is what we're hearing from 58 00:02:56,919 --> 00:02:59,520 Speaker 1: our Congress team. That's what Emily Wilkins told us yesterday 59 00:02:59,520 --> 00:03:03,960 Speaker 1: speaking to the Republican leadership. Inappropriations, of course, the minority 60 00:03:04,040 --> 00:03:07,680 Speaker 1: leader in the House, echoing the refrain. We've been hearing, 61 00:03:07,760 --> 00:03:11,160 Speaker 1: show us your plan. The House Republican budget plant is 62 00:03:11,160 --> 00:03:14,040 Speaker 1: in the witness protection program. That's new. I haven't heard 63 00:03:14,040 --> 00:03:19,079 Speaker 1: that it's in hiding. It's pretty good. Why because they 64 00:03:19,080 --> 00:03:21,920 Speaker 1: want to cut sol Security, they want to cut Medicare, 65 00:03:22,080 --> 00:03:25,320 Speaker 1: they want to cut veterans benefits. They want big tax 66 00:03:25,400 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: cuts for the wealthy, the well off, and the well connected. 67 00:03:30,000 --> 00:03:35,200 Speaker 1: They want to subsidize big pharma, subsidize big oil, and 68 00:03:35,280 --> 00:03:38,840 Speaker 1: all the while continue to promote the big lie. Well, okay, 69 00:03:38,880 --> 00:03:43,400 Speaker 1: we throw that into but basically the opposite President Biden 70 00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,320 Speaker 1: is asking for. So let's bring in Douglas Hole, seekin 71 00:03:47,400 --> 00:03:49,640 Speaker 1: for a bit of insight here, the president of the 72 00:03:49,640 --> 00:03:52,240 Speaker 1: American Action for him, he spent time as the chief 73 00:03:52,240 --> 00:03:54,680 Speaker 1: economist the Council of Economic Advisors in the White House, 74 00:03:54,680 --> 00:03:57,400 Speaker 1: former director of the Congressional Budget Office. He's been on 75 00:03:57,440 --> 00:03:59,640 Speaker 1: both sides of this, And Douglas, it's great to have 76 00:03:59,680 --> 00:04:03,600 Speaker 1: you back. It's the headline on the Bloomberg terminal says 77 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,080 Speaker 1: it all capital gains tax near's forty five percent in 78 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,400 Speaker 1: Biden's Soak the Rich budget. How's soaking the rich going 79 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: to go over? In this new House majority Douglas. I mean, 80 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,440 Speaker 1: there's the politics of this, which is a non starter. 81 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:20,760 Speaker 1: I think you've laid that out pretty clearly. These are 82 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,080 Speaker 1: proposals that couldn't get through the Congress on the Democrats 83 00:04:24,120 --> 00:04:27,360 Speaker 1: controlled it, and so I have no illusion that these 84 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:31,600 Speaker 1: are serious legislative attempts. This is a vision statement, not 85 00:04:32,279 --> 00:04:35,800 Speaker 1: a governance document. On the substance I think they have 86 00:04:35,839 --> 00:04:39,520 Speaker 1: a problem is there is this notion that somehow you 87 00:04:39,560 --> 00:04:43,200 Speaker 1: can tax the rich in isolation from everyone else and 88 00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 1: there's no repercussions. But if you're going to more than 89 00:04:47,279 --> 00:04:49,159 Speaker 1: you know, if you're going to almost double the capital 90 00:04:49,200 --> 00:04:51,920 Speaker 1: gains tax, you're going to tax unrealized capital games on 91 00:04:52,000 --> 00:04:55,040 Speaker 1: those who have the investible capital in the economy. You're 92 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 1: going to raise the corporates twenty eight percent. You're going 93 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,960 Speaker 1: to just go down this laundry list to be normal. 94 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:04,040 Speaker 1: A tax increases, you're going to run into economic growth problems, 95 00:05:04,120 --> 00:05:06,160 Speaker 1: and that always comes back to hurt the people that 96 00:05:06,240 --> 00:05:10,200 Speaker 1: they claim they're protecting. So substantively, this if the statement 97 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 1: of values is what the doctor it is, it's not 98 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:15,960 Speaker 1: a budget. The values the private sector in economic growth 99 00:05:16,320 --> 00:05:19,120 Speaker 1: at odds with that, And I'll just point out that 100 00:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,520 Speaker 1: six point nine trade and spending is bigger than anything 101 00:05:22,560 --> 00:05:26,640 Speaker 1: we did in the pandemic. So emergency is now regular 102 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:30,200 Speaker 1: order for the administration and their budgets, and that's just 103 00:05:30,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 1: a dramatic expansion of the government. Well, talk to us 104 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:34,919 Speaker 1: for a second about the process, because you've been in 105 00:05:34,920 --> 00:05:37,560 Speaker 1: the White House when when the budget, you know, President 106 00:05:37,600 --> 00:05:40,240 Speaker 1: George HW. Bush's budget came out, you knew it wasn't 107 00:05:40,240 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 1: going to be the final version. But you you know, look, 108 00:05:42,920 --> 00:05:45,640 Speaker 1: this is a bargaining process, right, and you need to 109 00:05:45,680 --> 00:05:47,800 Speaker 1: start with everything you want know when you're not going 110 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:51,440 Speaker 1: to get at all. Well, the truth is, we're not 111 00:05:51,480 --> 00:05:53,159 Speaker 1: going to have a budget this year. I mean, the 112 00:05:53,160 --> 00:05:55,760 Speaker 1: President has these proposals. The House may put out a 113 00:05:55,760 --> 00:05:59,000 Speaker 1: budget resolution. The Senate has no indication they're going to 114 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:00,919 Speaker 1: do that. The I to send a budget for the 115 00:06:01,000 --> 00:06:03,760 Speaker 1: schedule eight hearings on climate change, has no intention of 116 00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:06,679 Speaker 1: holding a hearing on a budget. So there's no budget 117 00:06:06,760 --> 00:06:11,480 Speaker 1: processing in Washington, DC. There are pieces of this budget 118 00:06:11,520 --> 00:06:14,719 Speaker 1: that will get at Those are the annual appropriations, the 119 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:19,440 Speaker 1: funding for defense and non defense agencies. The President has 120 00:06:19,440 --> 00:06:22,800 Speaker 1: taken the entitlements off the tables, says we're not going 121 00:06:22,839 --> 00:06:25,480 Speaker 1: to talk about the place where mostly spending occurs, and 122 00:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,440 Speaker 1: the text proposals are non starter. So this is really 123 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:34,000 Speaker 1: a very dysfunctional budgets moments, and that's why this isn't 124 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,839 Speaker 1: a governance document. There will be no governance. Republicans will 125 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:42,240 Speaker 1: offer their plan in I guess so another month or 126 00:06:42,279 --> 00:06:46,240 Speaker 1: so is what we understand. Will that be a governing documentary. 127 00:06:46,480 --> 00:06:49,320 Speaker 1: It's the same for both here, Kevin mccaid, if I've 128 00:06:49,360 --> 00:06:51,520 Speaker 1: become speaker, we're gonna have regular order. We're gonna have 129 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:55,440 Speaker 1: twelve appropriations bills. Doug with what happened, they may have 130 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,960 Speaker 1: regular order on appropriations. Now that's thirty percent of the budget. 131 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,400 Speaker 1: They're not going to have regular order on the seventy 132 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,480 Speaker 1: percent that is mandatory spending, entitlements to the rest of 133 00:07:05,520 --> 00:07:08,039 Speaker 1: the world, or the tax side. Okay, I'll see what 134 00:07:08,040 --> 00:07:12,600 Speaker 1: you're saying. You know, it's it's not looking all the 135 00:07:12,600 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: way from you know, the bout of the stern of 136 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,400 Speaker 1: this of this ship of state. It's just looking in 137 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: little places where it's convenient. Boy, what happens to the 138 00:07:20,880 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 1: debate over defense spending? This has a three percent increase. 139 00:07:24,120 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: House Republicans want to cut This is one of the 140 00:07:28,440 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 1: most surprising developments in the past several years, which is 141 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:36,080 Speaker 1: the flipping of positions on defense spending. You know, Democrats, 142 00:07:36,080 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 1: for years, we're demanding more than equal treatment for non 143 00:07:40,320 --> 00:07:43,520 Speaker 1: defense discretionary in exchange for what Republicans wanted on the 144 00:07:43,520 --> 00:07:46,800 Speaker 1: defense side. Now roles have reversed and it all revolves 145 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:52,080 Speaker 1: around Ukraine and the projection of US force overseas. And 146 00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:56,280 Speaker 1: obviously some Republicans, particularly in the House, have a view 147 00:07:56,760 --> 00:08:01,320 Speaker 1: that's much more circumscribed than isolationists than tradition Republican position. 148 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:05,360 Speaker 1: So if this won't break cleanly, House Republicans in center Pulgans, 149 00:08:05,400 --> 00:08:08,280 Speaker 1: they not even agree on this scision. When it comes 150 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: to the debt ceiling, Douglas, do we get a cr 151 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:14,920 Speaker 1: kick the debt ceiling to September? So all of this 152 00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:19,320 Speaker 1: will be wrapped up into one big deal. You can't 153 00:08:19,640 --> 00:08:23,840 Speaker 1: kick the debt ceiling right now. Let's say they suspend 154 00:08:23,880 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: it for six months or something. But is there going 155 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: to be an alignment on the timeline. So the thing 156 00:08:30,920 --> 00:08:33,760 Speaker 1: that has happened on the debt limit in an expedition fashion, 157 00:08:33,760 --> 00:08:35,839 Speaker 1: I have to either raise it or suspend it. And 158 00:08:35,880 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: if they get the votes to do either of those things. 159 00:08:38,720 --> 00:08:40,280 Speaker 1: They won't do it for six months. It will go 160 00:08:40,320 --> 00:08:42,360 Speaker 1: past the twenty four elections, so no one has to 161 00:08:42,400 --> 00:08:46,560 Speaker 1: do this again. Wow, this is a real reality check. 162 00:08:46,960 --> 00:08:49,720 Speaker 1: We appreciate it. Douglas Holtzekin as ever, thank you, sir 163 00:08:49,800 --> 00:08:52,839 Speaker 1: for joining us. The American Action Forum President with us 164 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:56,960 Speaker 1: on sound on on this budget day in Washington, although 165 00:08:57,000 --> 00:08:59,080 Speaker 1: he's going to Pennsylvania for it again, so it must 166 00:08:59,120 --> 00:09:02,880 Speaker 1: be campaign season. Let's assemble our panel and get honest 167 00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:05,079 Speaker 1: with Kristin Hall and the partner at Rock Solutions back 168 00:09:05,080 --> 00:09:08,440 Speaker 1: with us today. Former communications director and chief political advisor 169 00:09:08,440 --> 00:09:11,040 Speaker 1: to the Blue Dog Coalition, Lisa Kamuso Miller is also 170 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:15,240 Speaker 1: with us, former communications director for the RNC, our Republican strategist. 171 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:17,120 Speaker 1: It's great to have you both here, christ and we 172 00:09:17,240 --> 00:09:21,640 Speaker 1: just heard from a Republican economist on this for the 173 00:09:21,720 --> 00:09:24,760 Speaker 1: last ten minutes. In Douglas holtz ecan, do you see 174 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:27,640 Speaker 1: this statement of values as an important moment here or 175 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: are you kind of is? I don't know, I won't 176 00:09:30,520 --> 00:09:34,480 Speaker 1: say skeptical? Is he is? Douglas just doesn't see any 177 00:09:34,520 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 1: of this adding up to anything. These that women have 178 00:09:36,200 --> 00:09:38,000 Speaker 1: a budget this year at all. I mean, he's right 179 00:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 1: about that. So functionally there's not gonna be a budget 180 00:09:40,760 --> 00:09:43,120 Speaker 1: this year. But I do think that it's the statement 181 00:09:43,120 --> 00:09:45,520 Speaker 1: of values is important, right, It's important for the American 182 00:09:45,559 --> 00:09:47,920 Speaker 1: people to see where the prison is. And it, frankly, 183 00:09:47,960 --> 00:09:51,320 Speaker 1: can put the current Speaker of the House, McCarthy in 184 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:53,600 Speaker 1: a tough spot because he keeps saying he wants to 185 00:09:53,600 --> 00:09:56,079 Speaker 1: balance the budget, he wants to raise the debt and deficit, 186 00:09:57,440 --> 00:09:59,840 Speaker 1: but they haven't put out a plan. So you know, 187 00:10:00,120 --> 00:10:02,080 Speaker 1: there can be a lot of public discourse back and 188 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 1: forth and putting people in tough spots. But it's it's 189 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,040 Speaker 1: surely a messaging it's a messaging item, but also a 190 00:10:09,120 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 1: campaign season messaging item that puts to some extent or 191 00:10:12,640 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: at least is trying to put Kevin McCarthy in a 192 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:19,240 Speaker 1: corner here, forcing Republicans to vote against these ideas of 193 00:10:19,600 --> 00:10:22,680 Speaker 1: holding big corporations in the wealthy accountable. Is that yeah? 194 00:10:22,679 --> 00:10:24,600 Speaker 1: And I think that there's some things in this budget 195 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 1: that are clearly red meat to the base, but there 196 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:29,080 Speaker 1: are other things that are really really popular. So you 197 00:10:29,160 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: put you know, some of these rank and file Republicans 198 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,520 Speaker 1: in a difficult spot, like he included capping the price 199 00:10:34,520 --> 00:10:38,520 Speaker 1: of insulin. That's enormously popular obviously. Also what we found 200 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:43,199 Speaker 1: is popular among independent voters is you know this sense 201 00:10:43,280 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: that you know, Jeff Bezos pays less in taxes that 202 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,160 Speaker 1: than you know, some teachers do. I mean, so the 203 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,520 Speaker 1: idea that the wealthy, uber wealthy need to pay their 204 00:10:51,559 --> 00:10:55,800 Speaker 1: fair share is also popular notion among mini voters in 205 00:10:55,840 --> 00:10:57,920 Speaker 1: the country. So in that way you can kind of, 206 00:10:58,160 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 1: you know, send some messages to your to your base, 207 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,040 Speaker 1: but also kind of put some of these Republicans in 208 00:11:03,120 --> 00:11:07,040 Speaker 1: a tough spot. Let's add Lisa Camusa Miller's voice to this. Lisa, 209 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:09,440 Speaker 1: I don't know your your impressions on the top line 210 00:11:09,480 --> 00:11:14,559 Speaker 1: numbers here, But what's Kevin McCarthy's move. Does he want 211 00:11:14,559 --> 00:11:17,760 Speaker 1: to sit down with the president make a negotiation? Is 212 00:11:17,800 --> 00:11:21,319 Speaker 1: there going to be no conversation? What's the next move here? Oh? No, 213 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:23,199 Speaker 1: I think this is the opening salvo. I mean, I 214 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,400 Speaker 1: think we're going to have a lot of conversation on 215 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:29,200 Speaker 1: the airwaves. Maybe not necessarily in the White House or 216 00:11:29,280 --> 00:11:34,080 Speaker 1: on Capitol Hill, but it really I know, well, you know, 217 00:11:34,120 --> 00:11:37,320 Speaker 1: wits Washington after all. But Christen's point is good, I mean, 218 00:11:37,360 --> 00:11:40,920 Speaker 1: I think that this is it's the opening conversation. The 219 00:11:40,960 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 1: White House has certainly put in a lot of the 220 00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: conversation that we're going to hear. We obviously heard that 221 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,040 Speaker 1: from Minority Leader Jeffreys. And the other thing too is 222 00:11:49,080 --> 00:11:51,320 Speaker 1: that McCarthy just said last night that's a problem, right, 223 00:11:51,360 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: and the President responded by offering a plan three trillion 224 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,600 Speaker 1: reduction over ten years, which maybe is a starting conversation. 225 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,520 Speaker 1: Unfor Joe, you and I and Kristin all watched the 226 00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:05,840 Speaker 1: unfolding of how we got to a speaker at the 227 00:12:05,880 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: beginning of the year. The goalpost is going to move 228 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: and change and evolve over the course of time. So 229 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:14,280 Speaker 1: if Republican Republicans in the House are going to be 230 00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:16,559 Speaker 1: hard to work with, because we really don't know where 231 00:12:16,559 --> 00:12:19,079 Speaker 1: it is they are. But the other thing I want 232 00:12:19,080 --> 00:12:21,000 Speaker 1: to mention is they have said that they will come 233 00:12:21,080 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: up and offer a budget plan, and that's expected in 234 00:12:24,160 --> 00:12:25,880 Speaker 1: the beginning of May, so we've got a little bit 235 00:12:25,920 --> 00:12:30,280 Speaker 1: of time to go. Yeah, it's weeks away the debt ceiling. 236 00:12:30,320 --> 00:12:33,840 Speaker 1: They tell us, Kristen, we hit X date somewhere between 237 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,160 Speaker 1: July and August. How do these coincide? I asked Douglas 238 00:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,000 Speaker 1: the same thing. Well, they're began to attempt to align 239 00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,439 Speaker 1: these into one big deal, or do we actually I mean, 240 00:12:41,480 --> 00:12:42,760 Speaker 1: I think I know the answer. They we're not going 241 00:12:42,760 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: to do it this one at a time. No, we're 242 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:45,360 Speaker 1: not going to do it one at a time. And 243 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:46,679 Speaker 1: I think you have to look at at it. It's 244 00:12:46,679 --> 00:12:48,800 Speaker 1: a little bit more complex than that. So you know, 245 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:52,079 Speaker 1: eventually they have to have conversations about how we get 246 00:12:52,080 --> 00:12:53,960 Speaker 1: to the point where we can raise the debt limit, 247 00:12:53,960 --> 00:12:55,200 Speaker 1: and in my opinion, you're going to have to have 248 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:58,960 Speaker 1: Democratic votes in the House to do that. Now, the President, yes, 249 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: it's his budget, but he's ending a message, right, He's 250 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,719 Speaker 1: sending a message, this is what I'm willing to talk about, right. 251 00:13:03,800 --> 00:13:05,960 Speaker 1: And then McCarthy's going to have to do the same 252 00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:07,880 Speaker 1: thing on the other side. And I know that the 253 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:10,439 Speaker 1: White House rightfully is saying there's no reason why we 254 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:12,800 Speaker 1: should negotiate over that. But I think you're going to 255 00:13:12,880 --> 00:13:15,599 Speaker 1: have some of these other members, particularly at least in 256 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:17,720 Speaker 1: the House, who are kind of sitting more on the 257 00:13:17,760 --> 00:13:19,840 Speaker 1: center left space, like the people like the Blue Dogs, 258 00:13:19,880 --> 00:13:21,200 Speaker 1: you know, stuff like that, who are going to come 259 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:26,839 Speaker 1: into the conversation and necessarily be an important part of 260 00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:28,800 Speaker 1: how we get to the point where we do the 261 00:13:28,840 --> 00:13:31,480 Speaker 1: responsible thing and raise the debt limit so we actually 262 00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: pay our bills, and you know we don't have the 263 00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:35,960 Speaker 1: disaster that follows of default on our lens. Well, let 264 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:37,720 Speaker 1: me bring it back to the second of February, and 265 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:39,600 Speaker 1: I could, by the way, take my choice of days. 266 00:13:39,640 --> 00:13:42,960 Speaker 1: When he said this, Speaker Kevin McCarthy, which ever way 267 00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:45,000 Speaker 1: they want to talk about it, I'm very clear we 268 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:48,280 Speaker 1: will not pass a clean debt ceiling here without some 269 00:13:48,440 --> 00:13:51,080 Speaker 1: form of spending reforms. Spending so there'll never be a 270 00:13:51,080 --> 00:13:53,160 Speaker 1: clean one. I don't know how they want to say it, 271 00:13:53,240 --> 00:13:55,079 Speaker 1: that's fine, but at the end of the day, we're 272 00:13:55,080 --> 00:13:58,080 Speaker 1: going to get spending reforms. I believe you have to 273 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:00,360 Speaker 1: lift the debt ceiling, but you do not lift the 274 00:14:00,360 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: debt ceiling without changing your behavior. He's not going to 275 00:14:03,200 --> 00:14:05,760 Speaker 1: like what he reads in this plan here, obviously, Lisa. 276 00:14:05,800 --> 00:14:08,319 Speaker 1: But I'm sure he has not changed his position on this. 277 00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:11,080 Speaker 1: If you can't have a clean debt ceiling bill and 278 00:14:11,120 --> 00:14:13,920 Speaker 1: he won't raise the debt ceiling without an agreement on 279 00:14:13,960 --> 00:14:19,520 Speaker 1: spending reforms, here are we talking default. I think it's 280 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:21,640 Speaker 1: a risk I do think that there's a possibility. But 281 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,400 Speaker 1: if the Republicans are smart and they're thinking about this politically, 282 00:14:24,760 --> 00:14:28,160 Speaker 1: they will get to where they can be where they 283 00:14:28,160 --> 00:14:30,480 Speaker 1: can negotiate and get this right. Before that we get 284 00:14:30,520 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: to that point, right, if we default, the blame comes 285 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 1: to Republicans next November in the ballot box, right, I 286 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:39,240 Speaker 1: would think anyway, So they have to be smart about it. 287 00:14:39,320 --> 00:14:41,120 Speaker 1: They have to be in a position where they can 288 00:14:41,160 --> 00:14:43,560 Speaker 1: come to negotiation, they can come to a conversation, and 289 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: they can have some things that will get us to 290 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:49,000 Speaker 1: an agreement. Unfortunately, though, even though the speaker is saying 291 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:52,160 Speaker 1: what he's saying, he knows inside his conference he has 292 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,360 Speaker 1: a very different set of voices where everybody is in 293 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: a different place. So it's going to be it's going 294 00:14:58,280 --> 00:15:00,520 Speaker 1: to be painful to watch, and some members willing to 295 00:15:00,520 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: try to fire him over at Kristin Hall and Lisa 296 00:15:02,760 --> 00:15:06,760 Speaker 1: Cabuso Miller, you're listening to the Bloomberg Sound on podcast. 297 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:10,640 Speaker 1: Catch us live weekdays at five Eastern on Bloomberg dot com, 298 00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:13,160 Speaker 1: the I Heart Radio app, and the Bloomberg Business App. 299 00:15:13,320 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 1: We're listening on demand wherever you get your podcasts. Not 300 00:15:17,320 --> 00:15:20,280 Speaker 1: a good day for the CEO at Norfolk Southern the 301 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,000 Speaker 1: Rail Company. Of course, it's not been a good month 302 00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,160 Speaker 1: for the people of East Palestine, and that's how you 303 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:29,320 Speaker 1: end up with hearings like today's before the Senate Environment 304 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:32,480 Speaker 1: and Public Works Committee taken it from all sides. I 305 00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:36,760 Speaker 1: want to begin today by expressing how deeply sorry I 306 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:40,440 Speaker 1: am for the impact this derailment has had on the 307 00:15:40,480 --> 00:15:45,120 Speaker 1: residence of East Palestine and the surrounding communities. CEO Allen Show, 308 00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:48,440 Speaker 1: I've been to East Palestine many times over the past month. 309 00:15:49,240 --> 00:15:54,239 Speaker 1: I've talked with the leaders, the business owners, the school officials, 310 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,720 Speaker 1: the clergy, and others throughout the community. They've shared their 311 00:15:59,760 --> 00:16:02,160 Speaker 1: story where and their concerns about the health of their 312 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:06,720 Speaker 1: families and the future of the community they love. I 313 00:16:06,760 --> 00:16:11,040 Speaker 1: am determined to make this right, and that was part 314 00:16:11,080 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: of the opening statement. It went precipitously downhill from there 315 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:17,720 Speaker 1: as questioning begin. Pardon my senator, I'm committing to do 316 00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:21,600 Speaker 1: talking to Senator ed Market, right, is a family that 317 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:25,680 Speaker 1: had a home worth one hundred thousand dollars that is 318 00:16:25,680 --> 00:16:29,120 Speaker 1: now worth fifty thousand dollars. We'll probably never be able 319 00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:32,000 Speaker 1: to sell that home for one hundred thousand again, will 320 00:16:32,040 --> 00:16:38,840 Speaker 1: you compensate that family for that loss? Senator, I'm committing 321 00:16:38,880 --> 00:16:41,520 Speaker 1: to do what's right, that is the right thing to do. 322 00:16:41,800 --> 00:16:45,480 Speaker 1: These are the people who are innocent victims, mister Shaw. 323 00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:50,600 Speaker 1: Of course everyone is filming this for somebody. Bernie Sanders 324 00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,560 Speaker 1: says he has sound like a politician when he spoke 325 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:56,640 Speaker 1: with Allan Shaw. And we want to reassemble the panel 326 00:16:56,680 --> 00:16:59,320 Speaker 1: for their take on this. Kristen Haunt is here, Democratic 327 00:16:59,360 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 1: Analysts partner are at Rock Solutions, former comms director, chief 328 00:17:02,080 --> 00:17:05,080 Speaker 1: political advisor of the Blue Dog Coalition. Lisa Kamuso Miller's 329 00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:08,320 Speaker 1: here too, former comms director for the RNC. So we 330 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:12,119 Speaker 1: have all of our bases covered. This is a bipartisan 331 00:17:12,200 --> 00:17:14,399 Speaker 1: moment here, right. Both of you are going to agree 332 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:16,920 Speaker 1: on this, although maybe Lisa takes a thing at President 333 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:19,920 Speaker 1: Biden not going to East Palestine. It brings us back 334 00:17:19,960 --> 00:17:24,520 Speaker 1: to the derailment though, the burning of toxic gases that 335 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: some people still don't know exactly what the long term 336 00:17:27,840 --> 00:17:32,040 Speaker 1: impact will be. Kristen, is this a good exercise or 337 00:17:32,119 --> 00:17:35,520 Speaker 1: is this a lot of campaign commercials being filmed? I mean, 338 00:17:35,560 --> 00:17:38,119 Speaker 1: I feel like, look at the Senate, you know, and 339 00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:41,080 Speaker 1: you've got the senators from both those states and other 340 00:17:41,119 --> 00:17:43,680 Speaker 1: centers on both sides of the aisle who have bipartisan 341 00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,479 Speaker 1: legislation stepping up to the plate doing you know, what 342 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,520 Speaker 1: they think is right and talking about how do we 343 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,240 Speaker 1: regulate and fix these problems. And then on the House side, 344 00:17:53,240 --> 00:17:55,280 Speaker 1: and I'm a House person, but you know, you have 345 00:17:56,200 --> 00:17:58,080 Speaker 1: members of the House saying that they're going to do 346 00:17:58,119 --> 00:18:01,680 Speaker 1: everything they can to embed to gape the Biden administration 347 00:18:01,760 --> 00:18:04,800 Speaker 1: for their failed So this is a more productive exercise 348 00:18:05,359 --> 00:18:08,080 Speaker 1: in the Senate chamber. Yes, look, there's a lot to 349 00:18:08,119 --> 00:18:13,240 Speaker 1: talk about here, Lisa, about rail regulations, some of which 350 00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:16,920 Speaker 1: were relaxed in the Trump administration, and what some are 351 00:18:16,920 --> 00:18:20,680 Speaker 1: accusing the Biden administration of being a lax or somehow 352 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:23,640 Speaker 1: late responsible. That we should remind every when the EPA 353 00:18:23,640 --> 00:18:26,400 Speaker 1: and CDC were there within three hours. I believe there's 354 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,800 Speaker 1: been a question about a presidential visit though, and a 355 00:18:28,880 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 1: hearing like this, Lisa brings it all up, doesn't it. 356 00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:33,600 Speaker 1: That's sure, it does. I mean, you can't play politics 357 00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:35,879 Speaker 1: with people's health, and that's exactly what this comes down to. 358 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 1: I mean, this is an issue that these people are 359 00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,000 Speaker 1: in their homes, they're doing their day, they're on to work, 360 00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:43,280 Speaker 1: their kids are in school, and there's a trained derailment, 361 00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:45,879 Speaker 1: and then there was no communication about what the threat was, 362 00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,200 Speaker 1: what was happening for very what felt like a very 363 00:18:49,240 --> 00:18:51,440 Speaker 1: long time, So there was a lot that was going on. 364 00:18:51,640 --> 00:18:55,160 Speaker 1: We need to know answers those regardless of politics, show 365 00:18:55,359 --> 00:18:59,879 Speaker 1: the people of East Palestine deserved to be protected, supported, 366 00:19:00,040 --> 00:19:04,320 Speaker 1: and given all of the opportunity they can to maybe 367 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,880 Speaker 1: move away or be away from whatever's happening right now 368 00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:08,960 Speaker 1: so that they can be healthy and well. Well, you 369 00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:11,280 Speaker 1: like to think that a hearing length this does more 370 00:19:11,320 --> 00:19:14,640 Speaker 1: than you know, get people talking. There is a call 371 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:19,320 Speaker 1: for bipartisan legislation, Kristen to tighten rail safety standards, to 372 00:19:19,359 --> 00:19:22,600 Speaker 1: come back around, reinstate some of those regulations and actually 373 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,439 Speaker 1: maybe even make it tougher. Is that is that a 374 00:19:25,520 --> 00:19:27,640 Speaker 1: layup after an event like this? By the way, I'm 375 00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:29,640 Speaker 1: going to add, and I should have said this already 376 00:19:29,680 --> 00:19:33,560 Speaker 1: while he was talking, while Alan Shaw was testifying, there 377 00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:38,439 Speaker 1: was another Norfolk Southern derailment in Alabama, So sadly it 378 00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:40,439 Speaker 1: should be a layoup. But I don't think you know 379 00:19:40,760 --> 00:19:42,880 Speaker 1: any piece of legislation getting it through both the House 380 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:46,639 Speaker 1: and the Senate is however, I think you have to 381 00:19:46,680 --> 00:19:48,600 Speaker 1: take or they have to take moments like this to 382 00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:52,399 Speaker 1: come together and you have a conversation about regulation and 383 00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:55,200 Speaker 1: what needs to actually be done. Is it a congressional 384 00:19:55,240 --> 00:19:57,960 Speaker 1: solution here? Does it have to be legislation Kristen? Or 385 00:19:58,000 --> 00:19:59,760 Speaker 1: is that a non starter and the President needs to 386 00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:03,200 Speaker 1: start working up some kind of an executive action? I mean, 387 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:04,960 Speaker 1: I think you can do both, but I'm always a 388 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: huge proponent of congressional action. If you can do it, 389 00:20:08,160 --> 00:20:11,280 Speaker 1: you know, executive orders they can be they can they 390 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 1: go back and forth, right, and so you have sustained 391 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,879 Speaker 1: you know, with congressional action, you have sustained policies, regulations 392 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:22,480 Speaker 1: that these companies can even live by in the future. 393 00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:27,520 Speaker 1: How's this get done, Kristen, I'm sorry, Lisa, Well, I'd 394 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:29,320 Speaker 1: like to think that it would get done quickly, Joe. 395 00:20:29,359 --> 00:20:31,520 Speaker 1: But the problem is, just as Kristen had mentioned, it's 396 00:20:31,560 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 1: going to be more difficult, right, It's gonna be hard 397 00:20:33,119 --> 00:20:35,200 Speaker 1: to get through the Senate and onto the House. Who's 398 00:20:35,240 --> 00:20:37,399 Speaker 1: going to make this political? So it does have to 399 00:20:37,440 --> 00:20:39,320 Speaker 1: be sort of, it has to be both. You have 400 00:20:39,359 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 1: to walk and chew gum. The White House has to 401 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,840 Speaker 1: do something in the administration in order to get this 402 00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:45,680 Speaker 1: done quickly. But there needs to be some legislative action 403 00:20:45,760 --> 00:20:47,840 Speaker 1: that's going to put this in place so that it 404 00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,480 Speaker 1: isn't undone when the next White House is in power, 405 00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:54,280 Speaker 1: next party is in power. But it's going to be 406 00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:57,000 Speaker 1: a cooperation. The interesting thing though, Joe, is that it's 407 00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:59,600 Speaker 1: happening in Ohio, and Ohio is a critical state for 408 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:02,600 Speaker 1: twenty twenty four. So as much as I say shouldn't 409 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:04,639 Speaker 1: be politics, it's going to be politics. Well, you know 410 00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:06,919 Speaker 1: what if jd Vance got the ball rolling on this? 411 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:10,280 Speaker 1: Who needs to actually crack the seal on this? Lisa, 412 00:21:10,440 --> 00:21:13,080 Speaker 1: who's the Republican He's obviously Democrats want to see some 413 00:21:13,119 --> 00:21:16,840 Speaker 1: tougher regulations, but jd Vance seems to be feeling this 414 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:19,040 Speaker 1: on a local level that might be able to make 415 00:21:19,080 --> 00:21:22,720 Speaker 1: a difference. Is that true or not? Well, I'm sure 416 00:21:22,720 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 1: he is. I mean, this certainly speaks to what it 417 00:21:25,119 --> 00:21:27,639 Speaker 1: is he at least started the campaign on. He's changed 418 00:21:27,680 --> 00:21:29,600 Speaker 1: his tone so many times it's hard to sort of know. 419 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: But I think more than anything, the governor needs to 420 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:34,960 Speaker 1: take the lead here, right this has got to be 421 00:21:34,960 --> 00:21:37,399 Speaker 1: a state led operations the governor is going to do 422 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:39,200 Speaker 1: everything they can, and that's how that's going to really 423 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:41,560 Speaker 1: get done. That's the chief executive in the state, and 424 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:44,600 Speaker 1: they're going to do everything in that administration to make 425 00:21:44,640 --> 00:21:46,880 Speaker 1: sure that the Congress is paying attention, that the Senate 426 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,320 Speaker 1: is paying attention. Jady Vance should be the guy that 427 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,280 Speaker 1: steps up. But it'll be interesting to see how that 428 00:21:51,280 --> 00:21:53,800 Speaker 1: really plays out. So let's talk more about the political 429 00:21:53,800 --> 00:21:56,240 Speaker 1: side of it. Then. Does Joe Biden actually go to 430 00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:58,840 Speaker 1: East Palestine at this point, Kristen or is it just 431 00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,119 Speaker 1: too late? There's no point at this I mean Donald 432 00:22:01,119 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 1: Trump's come and gone now. I wouldn't say there's no point. 433 00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:06,320 Speaker 1: Certainly either there was a lot going on with the 434 00:22:06,320 --> 00:22:08,919 Speaker 1: president's schedule on a vice presidential visit or an earlier 435 00:22:09,000 --> 00:22:13,080 Speaker 1: visit by the secretary, bring the whole circus everything into 436 00:22:13,320 --> 00:22:17,400 Speaker 1: but yeah, I mean that can create distractions of its own. 437 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,439 Speaker 1: I think what's more important is what's actually happening on 438 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,919 Speaker 1: the ground now that you know in this this Senate 439 00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:27,360 Speaker 1: hearing is kind of he keeps hearing about it though 440 00:22:27,520 --> 00:22:29,720 Speaker 1: it cares more about Ukraine than the people of Ohio. 441 00:22:30,119 --> 00:22:32,679 Speaker 1: You just go check the box. Well, it's gonna be 442 00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:34,960 Speaker 1: They're gonna be political attacks on the President no matter 443 00:22:34,960 --> 00:22:38,480 Speaker 1: what he does, mostly coming from a House of Republicans, 444 00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:41,439 Speaker 1: so I don't think he can avoid that. Our panel 445 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,399 Speaker 1: in place with Lisa Camuso Miller and Kristin Hauna, I 446 00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:46,600 Speaker 1: want to ask you both quickly about something that happened overnight. 447 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:49,680 Speaker 1: Here was late last night. Actually, Mitch McConnell spent the 448 00:22:49,760 --> 00:22:52,240 Speaker 1: night in the hospital, fell down at a private dinner 449 00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:53,960 Speaker 1: at what used to be the Trump Hotel. It's the 450 00:22:54,000 --> 00:22:56,800 Speaker 1: Waldorf now right over by the White House on Pennsylvania Avenue. 451 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:00,359 Speaker 1: We know that he has trouble getting around, he had 452 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,280 Speaker 1: polio as a child, and he's an aging man. Lisa, 453 00:23:05,480 --> 00:23:09,120 Speaker 1: are you concerned about this that the minority leader fell 454 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:13,400 Speaker 1: last night? Oh? Yeah, I mean, of course, absolutely concerned. 455 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,600 Speaker 1: Concern for anyone's health whenever they fall or have an 456 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 1: incident like this. But I don't think there's any tougher 457 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,840 Speaker 1: member of the Senate than Senator McConnell. So I have 458 00:23:22,880 --> 00:23:25,480 Speaker 1: every expectation that he's going to come out of this well. 459 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:29,200 Speaker 1: But certainly I'm hoping that he comes through easily and 460 00:23:29,320 --> 00:23:33,000 Speaker 1: without too much complication and everything else. His office released 461 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,159 Speaker 1: a statement Kristen, he is expected to ruin and then 462 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:38,680 Speaker 1: the hospital for a few days of observation and treatment rights. 463 00:23:38,920 --> 00:23:41,040 Speaker 1: The leader is grateful to the medical professionals for their 464 00:23:41,040 --> 00:23:45,439 Speaker 1: care and to his colleagues for their warm wishes, good tone. 465 00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:46,679 Speaker 1: But to know that he's going to be there for 466 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,200 Speaker 1: days is actually a pretty big deal. Surprise this isn't 467 00:23:49,240 --> 00:23:51,480 Speaker 1: getting more coverage. Well, I mean, it's a big deal, 468 00:23:51,480 --> 00:23:54,240 Speaker 1: but it's you know, I would echo everything that Lisa said. 469 00:23:54,240 --> 00:23:58,200 Speaker 1: I mean, obviously everybody's hoping for a quick recovery for 470 00:23:58,520 --> 00:24:02,280 Speaker 1: the minority leader in the Senate. You know, I think 471 00:24:02,359 --> 00:24:05,160 Speaker 1: that when politicians are of a certain age. I mean, 472 00:24:05,200 --> 00:24:07,359 Speaker 1: you see what happened when Joe Biden just happened to 473 00:24:07,400 --> 00:24:09,720 Speaker 1: fall off of his bike. There's a lot of attention 474 00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,320 Speaker 1: paid to it. Now, I'm not saying that there shouldn't be. 475 00:24:12,680 --> 00:24:16,159 Speaker 1: These are, you know, the leaders of our country. But 476 00:24:16,240 --> 00:24:17,400 Speaker 1: at the end of the day, you know, I think 477 00:24:17,440 --> 00:24:19,720 Speaker 1: everybody's hoping for a quick recovery. Well, this does have 478 00:24:19,920 --> 00:24:21,960 Speaker 1: you know, there are political implications to these things. We're 479 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:24,520 Speaker 1: trying to be I think, graceful and respectful about this, Lisa, 480 00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,520 Speaker 1: But you know, Kristen's right, Joe Biden does take a 481 00:24:26,520 --> 00:24:28,359 Speaker 1: lot of flak for being an old guy who sometimes 482 00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 1: stumbles around. Has this become an issue for Mitch McConnell 483 00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,600 Speaker 1: or he goes back to work without an issue? Oh, 484 00:24:34,640 --> 00:24:36,520 Speaker 1: I mean he'll be back to work without an issue. 485 00:24:36,560 --> 00:24:38,679 Speaker 1: But you know, if you're a candidate for president and 486 00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:42,080 Speaker 1: you're younger, like Nicky Haley, you're willing to take a 487 00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: shot at some of these folks to say that maybe 488 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:46,399 Speaker 1: this is another example of why we need to have 489 00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,000 Speaker 1: younger people in office. Right. I mean she came out 490 00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:52,080 Speaker 1: ready to go and ready to have that conversation all 491 00:24:52,400 --> 00:24:55,280 Speaker 1: through the month of February and even into and into March. 492 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: I don't know what they're going to do to candidates, 493 00:24:57,000 --> 00:24:58,920 Speaker 1: but please don't make me take the cognitive test. If 494 00:24:58,920 --> 00:25:04,480 Speaker 1: that's what my job is writing, I'm just what is it? Womanman? TV? Camera? 495 00:25:04,720 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 1: All right, I'll practice it. Camera. It's Kristin. Thank you 496 00:25:07,920 --> 00:25:10,399 Speaker 1: so much, great to see you here once again. Kristen 497 00:25:10,440 --> 00:25:13,520 Speaker 1: Han with Rock Solutions and Lisa Kumuso Miller, former comms 498 00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:15,640 Speaker 1: director of the RNC. Way to Go, Lisa, I'm gonna 499 00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:19,400 Speaker 1: tell everybody about your podcast coming up really soon too. 500 00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:23,520 Speaker 1: Great panel, great conversation. You're listening to The Bloomberg Sound 501 00:25:23,600 --> 00:25:27,280 Speaker 1: on podcast. Catch the program live weekdays at five pm 502 00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:31,040 Speaker 1: Easter on Bloomberg Radio, the tune in app, Bloomberg dot Com, 503 00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,000 Speaker 1: and the Bloomberg Business App. You can also listen live 504 00:25:34,119 --> 00:25:37,399 Speaker 1: on Amazon Alexa from our flagship New York station, Just 505 00:25:37,600 --> 00:25:42,359 Speaker 1: say Alexa play Bloomberg eleven thirty. The FAA, of course, 506 00:25:42,400 --> 00:25:44,720 Speaker 1: has been under a lot of scrutiny lately after a 507 00:25:44,840 --> 00:25:48,200 Speaker 1: number of reported near missus in places like New York, 508 00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 1: in Boston and Austin over the past couple of months. 509 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:54,399 Speaker 1: It feels like there's another one of the news every day, 510 00:25:54,440 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: and then when you try to fly, of course, you 511 00:25:55,880 --> 00:25:57,920 Speaker 1: sit in the gate four hours, you wonder if your 512 00:25:57,920 --> 00:26:01,160 Speaker 1: plane's gonna actually get off because the crew can't get 513 00:26:01,160 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: to the airport. It's just been a difficult time for 514 00:26:03,880 --> 00:26:06,040 Speaker 1: a lot of reasons coming out of COVID dealing with 515 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:10,600 Speaker 1: antiquated systems. The Acting Administrator of the FAA, Billy Nolan, 516 00:26:10,680 --> 00:26:13,240 Speaker 1: testified front of the Senate Committee on Commerce, Science, and 517 00:26:13,280 --> 00:26:17,359 Speaker 1: Transportation hearing that began Wednesday going into today on the 518 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,960 Speaker 1: safety of the aviation industry since the seven three seven 519 00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:25,199 Speaker 1: Max disasters. Yere's Nolan if he understands and embraces the 520 00:26:25,240 --> 00:26:30,200 Speaker 1: importance of continuously raising the bar on aviation safety. We're 521 00:26:30,240 --> 00:26:35,200 Speaker 1: treating aircraft as complex systems with full consideration of how 522 00:26:35,240 --> 00:26:38,280 Speaker 1: all the elements in the operating system interact. Well, he 523 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,680 Speaker 1: heard about it from Stephen Lynch, course, the congressman from 524 00:26:40,680 --> 00:26:44,600 Speaker 1: Massachusetts South Boston leaning in. He actually spoke to us 525 00:26:44,640 --> 00:26:47,840 Speaker 1: about it here on Bloomberg. In fact, he spoke with 526 00:26:49,320 --> 00:26:52,040 Speaker 1: our station in Boston about this. It's an interview you're 527 00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:54,080 Speaker 1: going to hear later today. We've been lucky that we've 528 00:26:54,080 --> 00:26:56,720 Speaker 1: had no loss of life in any of these incidents, 529 00:26:56,840 --> 00:26:59,480 Speaker 1: but you know it can't continue in this way. We've 530 00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 1: los a trust of the traveling public. And also there's 531 00:27:02,840 --> 00:27:05,720 Speaker 1: direct consequences when people have trapped on a plane and 532 00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:08,720 Speaker 1: sent a collision. It's a very dangerous and difficult situation. 533 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,480 Speaker 1: This is where we start our conversation with Lilyana Buyington, Bloomberg, 534 00:27:12,640 --> 00:27:15,880 Speaker 1: Government Transportation reporter. Lilyana, it's great to have you here. 535 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,000 Speaker 1: What is this committee actually attempting to do other than 536 00:27:19,040 --> 00:27:24,280 Speaker 1: air concerns about what's happening at the FAA. Yeah, Lawmakers 537 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:26,960 Speaker 1: are really focused on aviation right now, as you described, 538 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:31,080 Speaker 1: after recent disruption and now these spat of near miss incidents. 539 00:27:31,119 --> 00:27:34,240 Speaker 1: What they can do about it is lawmakers are working 540 00:27:34,280 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: on a bipartisan aviation bill that they are seeking to 541 00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:41,360 Speaker 1: pass this year. The authorization for the Federal Aviation Administration, 542 00:27:41,600 --> 00:27:44,640 Speaker 1: which happens every few years, happens to expire this year 543 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:48,280 Speaker 1: after September thirtieth, so they do have an opportunity to 544 00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,760 Speaker 1: pass something to direct aviation policy for the next few years. 545 00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 1: And they're taking these incidents and this disruption into consideration 546 00:27:56,600 --> 00:28:01,160 Speaker 1: as they figure out what policies they want to advance. Well, 547 00:28:01,200 --> 00:28:03,119 Speaker 1: I guess it's a good thing. Maybe this renewal is 548 00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:05,160 Speaker 1: happening in the middle of all this Now that kind 549 00:28:05,160 --> 00:28:08,359 Speaker 1: of force everyone to take another look at it then, right, Yeah, 550 00:28:08,400 --> 00:28:12,119 Speaker 1: it's particularly good timing for lawmakers to focus on this. 551 00:28:12,119 --> 00:28:15,399 Speaker 1: They're planning a lot of hearings. We had Acting Misher 552 00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:18,080 Speaker 1: Nolan here yesterday and he was also here last months 553 00:28:18,359 --> 00:28:21,000 Speaker 1: before the committee, so they're planning a lot more hearings 554 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:26,840 Speaker 1: looking at certification and safety and workforce issues. So there's 555 00:28:26,840 --> 00:28:28,760 Speaker 1: definitely going to be a huge focus on the Hill 556 00:28:29,119 --> 00:28:32,119 Speaker 1: on aviation going forward over the next few months to 557 00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:34,879 Speaker 1: see if they can get together bipartisan bill on this. 558 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:38,360 Speaker 1: The fa is also hosting a safety summit next week 559 00:28:38,600 --> 00:28:43,520 Speaker 1: following those near miss crashes, just because they really want 560 00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:46,600 Speaker 1: to put an emphasis on what are any solutions they 561 00:28:46,640 --> 00:28:49,880 Speaker 1: could look to here as they've received all this scrutiny. 562 00:28:50,080 --> 00:28:53,200 Speaker 1: How much of this has to do with aging equipment, 563 00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:59,920 Speaker 1: antiquated technology versus lack of experienced manpower. I think there's 564 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,320 Speaker 1: kind of mixed opinions on what the direct causes, and 565 00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,200 Speaker 1: they're looking into that now. What we saw in January 566 00:29:06,520 --> 00:29:09,600 Speaker 1: when the FAA had a system outage that grounded all 567 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,520 Speaker 1: flights departures temporarily for a day, which was really rare. 568 00:29:13,960 --> 00:29:17,000 Speaker 1: That was more of a system outage based on the 569 00:29:17,040 --> 00:29:21,120 Speaker 1: aging systems that they have, which in Biden's budget proposals 570 00:29:21,120 --> 00:29:23,600 Speaker 1: today they're requesting a little bit more money to update 571 00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:27,000 Speaker 1: those systems, which they've long been working on updating them. 572 00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,400 Speaker 1: But that's something that has contributed to some of their issues, 573 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,160 Speaker 1: and they are investing more in kind of ramping up 574 00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:36,920 Speaker 1: their modernization of a lot of their technology, as well 575 00:29:36,920 --> 00:29:39,080 Speaker 1: as trying to hire this year, which of course it 576 00:29:39,120 --> 00:29:42,120 Speaker 1: is difficult in any industry right now, but they're trying 577 00:29:42,160 --> 00:29:44,520 Speaker 1: to get experienced people in there because they've had a 578 00:29:44,520 --> 00:29:47,880 Speaker 1: lot of retirement. Thanks for the context here, Liliana Byington, 579 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,880 Speaker 1: great work at Bloomberg Government. You can find her work, 580 00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:53,440 Speaker 1: of course on the terminal or at Bloomberg dot com. 581 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:57,240 Speaker 1: Transportation reporter writing about the hearings for US today again. 582 00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: Congressman Stephen Lynch, speaking with Bloomberg in Boston, says he 583 00:30:02,360 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: already met with the Air Traffic Controllers Union about all. Well. 584 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:07,320 Speaker 1: We sent the letter out to demand a review of 585 00:30:07,400 --> 00:30:10,880 Speaker 1: the FAA because they're in control of ground and air operations. 586 00:30:10,920 --> 00:30:13,760 Speaker 1: But I met yesterday with one of the leaders in 587 00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:16,880 Speaker 1: the Air Traffic Controllers Union to try to find out 588 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:19,880 Speaker 1: if there's something going on there with personnel or training. 589 00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,080 Speaker 1: At this point, we don't really have one single cause 590 00:30:23,200 --> 00:30:26,040 Speaker 1: that it has been identified. He's demanding a review of 591 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:30,440 Speaker 1: FAA flight operations overall, following the near MISSUS and some 592 00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:32,520 Speaker 1: of the other things we've been talking about, and our 593 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: thanks to Tom Moroni and Joe short Sleeve on Bloomberg 594 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:38,400 Speaker 1: Base State Business in Boston for that. This is an 595 00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:40,920 Speaker 1: interesting opportunity to talk to Sarah and Nelson, who I 596 00:30:41,040 --> 00:30:44,000 Speaker 1: always enjoy talking about regarding a number of issues, but 597 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:46,400 Speaker 1: right in the middle of this, she and her fifty 598 00:30:46,440 --> 00:30:49,880 Speaker 1: thousand members at the Association of Flight Attendants are at 599 00:30:49,880 --> 00:30:51,400 Speaker 1: the mercy of a lot of the stuff we're talking 600 00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:53,040 Speaker 1: about here, and Sarah, I want to welcome you back. 601 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:55,000 Speaker 1: It's great to have you. Do you support this review 602 00:30:55,000 --> 00:30:58,920 Speaker 1: that's underway now. Certainly we're going to take part in 603 00:30:58,960 --> 00:31:02,000 Speaker 1: the safety summit next week with the FAA, But let 604 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,560 Speaker 1: me just I think it's really important to recognize that 605 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,640 Speaker 1: our union has been speaking up along with the pilots 606 00:31:07,680 --> 00:31:10,480 Speaker 1: and machinists, the air track controllers, all of the aviation 607 00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:15,960 Speaker 1: unions for quite some time that in many cases the 608 00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:20,480 Speaker 1: authorization of the FAA funding and priorities has been subject 609 00:31:20,560 --> 00:31:23,280 Speaker 1: to a series of extensions, and whenever that happens, you 610 00:31:23,280 --> 00:31:27,120 Speaker 1: can't have any long term planning for infrastructure and improving 611 00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,520 Speaker 1: that you Also, it's much harder to hire because you 612 00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:33,080 Speaker 1: don't have the money or the plan or the budgeting 613 00:31:33,120 --> 00:31:36,440 Speaker 1: for additional hiring. And the air traffic controllers has really 614 00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:40,560 Speaker 1: been working at a deficit of staffing for quite some time. 615 00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:42,360 Speaker 1: It takes a long time to get really skilled for 616 00:31:42,400 --> 00:31:45,040 Speaker 1: this and don't forget they have such a stressful job 617 00:31:45,120 --> 00:31:48,400 Speaker 1: that they have a mandatory retirement age of age fifty six. 618 00:31:48,840 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: So this has been a compound of issues from well 619 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:56,560 Speaker 1: before COVID. COVID certainly added to it. But it's very 620 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:59,719 Speaker 1: important that as we look at this in a bi 621 00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:03,640 Speaker 1: part an effort, they cannot delay putting in place the 622 00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:08,720 Speaker 1: reauthorization bill for this year with clear priorities, clear funding 623 00:32:08,840 --> 00:32:10,800 Speaker 1: long terms, so that we can plan, so that we 624 00:32:10,840 --> 00:32:13,160 Speaker 1: can hire, so that we can invest in that infrastructure, 625 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 1: because what we're experiencing right now has been a series 626 00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: of these extensions and not real investment in the jobs 627 00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:24,920 Speaker 1: and the infrastructure that is going to keep our aviation 628 00:32:24,960 --> 00:32:28,440 Speaker 1: system safe. Is anyone hearing a recurring theme around here? 629 00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:31,560 Speaker 1: This is the This is the budget debate happening in 630 00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,520 Speaker 1: all corners of government. Right. If you keep kicking the can, 631 00:32:34,600 --> 00:32:37,640 Speaker 1: no one can control the spending. Nobody ends up getting 632 00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:39,760 Speaker 1: what they actually want because money is going in the 633 00:32:39,760 --> 00:32:43,320 Speaker 1: wrong places sometimes or there's not enough or whatever that is. Sarah, 634 00:32:43,320 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 1: you've been in the middle of this since coming out 635 00:32:45,920 --> 00:32:49,040 Speaker 1: of COVID. There's been so many cross currents that make 636 00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:53,479 Speaker 1: your job and your members jobs more difficult here. Do 637 00:32:53,520 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 1: you without that authorization feel that the system will be 638 00:32:57,440 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: less safe? I have to say yes, because any distraction. 639 00:33:04,280 --> 00:33:08,040 Speaker 1: We're taught as safety professionals that the first rule in 640 00:33:08,080 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 1: safety is to remove all distractions possible. And what could 641 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,360 Speaker 1: be more distracting than air traffic controller is not knowing, 642 00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,240 Speaker 1: for example, not knowing if there is going to be 643 00:33:17,320 --> 00:33:20,200 Speaker 1: a shutdown because they don't come to a solution, because 644 00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: an extension is one thing, but the other alternative is 645 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:26,280 Speaker 1: just not coming to a deal, not reauthorizing, and having 646 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:29,440 Speaker 1: a shutdown like we saw in the early twenty nineteen. 647 00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,480 Speaker 1: So that's a huge distraction, not to mention the fact 648 00:33:32,480 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 1: that any time that you get close to a deadline 649 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:38,440 Speaker 1: like that, what the agency has to start preparing for 650 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:42,560 Speaker 1: is shutdown plans. So they put aside efforts to put 651 00:33:42,600 --> 00:33:45,400 Speaker 1: in place, the new plans, the new infrastructure, the new 652 00:33:45,440 --> 00:33:48,160 Speaker 1: programs that they're trying to put in place, the hiring 653 00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,200 Speaker 1: that they're putting in place, and they have to redirect 654 00:33:50,240 --> 00:33:53,719 Speaker 1: all of their efforts into a shutdown plan because only 655 00:33:54,320 --> 00:33:59,040 Speaker 1: the employees who are deemed essential come to work, and 656 00:33:59,120 --> 00:34:01,640 Speaker 1: if they don't have the rest of the agency seat 657 00:34:01,680 --> 00:34:03,680 Speaker 1: to support them, there has to be a plan for 658 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:06,480 Speaker 1: that for that shutdown. So that's what happens anytime you 659 00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:09,479 Speaker 1: get close to a deadline. And that's why we say 660 00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:11,719 Speaker 1: to lawmakers this is this is not a funny thing. 661 00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:14,239 Speaker 1: This is not a political thing to mess around with. Um, 662 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,080 Speaker 1: you got to get the funding, you gotta get the 663 00:34:16,120 --> 00:34:18,200 Speaker 1: priorities in there, and you've got to get it in 664 00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:22,560 Speaker 1: place so that we don't have distractions to safety. Boy, 665 00:34:22,640 --> 00:34:24,719 Speaker 1: you just said a lot. Is anyone consulting you on 666 00:34:24,760 --> 00:34:27,719 Speaker 1: the Sarah, Are you in the conversation with lawmakers in Washington? 667 00:34:27,719 --> 00:34:31,160 Speaker 1: Do they know what they're talking about? They have a 668 00:34:31,200 --> 00:34:36,239 Speaker 1: hard time not hearing from me. But yes, we're also 669 00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 1: going to be at the safety summit with the fa 670 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,640 Speaker 1: IS holding next week, and you know this is top 671 00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:43,640 Speaker 1: of mind for us. And I would just add from 672 00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:47,520 Speaker 1: a flight attendant's perspective that when we talk about distractions 673 00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:51,400 Speaker 1: that outbursts on board in the cabin, that is another distraction. 674 00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:53,160 Speaker 1: You look at that flight that was going from LA 675 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,320 Speaker 1: to Boston and we had the guy who fashioned the 676 00:34:55,360 --> 00:34:58,720 Speaker 1: spoon into a weapon and actually attacked the flight attendant 677 00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: that was on descent. It's a critical phase of flight. 678 00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:04,160 Speaker 1: What's happening during that situation is that people are not 679 00:35:04,239 --> 00:35:07,160 Speaker 1: buckled in. That can give a chance for other people 680 00:35:07,200 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: to get thrown around the cabin or hurt, and you're 681 00:35:09,480 --> 00:35:12,000 Speaker 1: trying to let the pilots know that there's an emergency 682 00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:13,680 Speaker 1: happening in the cabin right at the time when they're 683 00:35:13,719 --> 00:35:17,560 Speaker 1: supposed to be focusing on landing the plane. So distractions 684 00:35:17,719 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: everywhere are what we have to deal with, and part 685 00:35:20,239 --> 00:35:21,840 Speaker 1: of what has to go into this bill is not 686 00:35:21,880 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 1: only funding an infrastructure and the ability to have a 687 00:35:24,960 --> 00:35:28,000 Speaker 1: robust jobs plan to get people hired and get people 688 00:35:28,040 --> 00:35:33,320 Speaker 1: trained up, but also efforts to remove the distractions from aviation. 689 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,719 Speaker 1: We don't need these outbursts on the plane. We don't 690 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:39,279 Speaker 1: need limited staffing of flight attendants on the plane, gate 691 00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,600 Speaker 1: agents at the gate, because we also learn in the 692 00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:45,720 Speaker 1: first rule of aviation is keep all problems on the ground. 693 00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,480 Speaker 1: And when you have fewer people staffed in the airports 694 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,120 Speaker 1: to be able to see where the problems may be arising, 695 00:35:51,480 --> 00:35:53,359 Speaker 1: it's more likely you're going to have problems on the plane. 696 00:35:53,360 --> 00:35:55,080 Speaker 1: And when you have fewer people on the plane to 697 00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:57,120 Speaker 1: be able to respond to that is more likely those 698 00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:59,600 Speaker 1: little problems are going to become big problems. So this 699 00:35:59,880 --> 00:36:04,439 Speaker 1: is a worldview on aviation. We all play a part 700 00:36:04,480 --> 00:36:06,440 Speaker 1: in safety, and you've got to bring it all together. 701 00:36:06,520 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: It all matters and bottom line, like I said, remove 702 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,720 Speaker 1: all distractions and put at your first and total focus 703 00:36:13,760 --> 00:36:16,480 Speaker 1: on safety. Passengers when they buy those tickets, they want 704 00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:18,400 Speaker 1: to know that they can take safety for granted, because 705 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: we're all doing our job to make sure that they're knows. Boy, well, 706 00:36:21,280 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: put leave your problems on the ground, Sarah Nelson. We 707 00:36:24,200 --> 00:36:27,080 Speaker 1: can put numbers on what you're talking about here, and 708 00:36:27,160 --> 00:36:30,680 Speaker 1: this is these from the FAA more than two thousand, 709 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,680 Speaker 1: three hundred reports of unruly passengers in the last calendar 710 00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,960 Speaker 1: year twenty twenty two. Eight hundred twenty three of those 711 00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:42,760 Speaker 1: cases were so severe they led to investigations. The second 712 00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 1: most violent ear in the air after twenty twenty one, 713 00:36:45,600 --> 00:36:49,319 Speaker 1: which we don't want to repeat. Sarah, what's the protocol 714 00:36:49,760 --> 00:36:52,480 Speaker 1: if you're a flight attendant, if you're a member of 715 00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:56,239 Speaker 1: your union, you're expected to diffuse this, right, I mean, 716 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,840 Speaker 1: there is protocol to deal with these insane events in 717 00:37:00,920 --> 00:37:04,279 Speaker 1: the year. Yes. Well, Look, thousands of flights takeoff and 718 00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:06,959 Speaker 1: land every day without event, and that's usually because flight 719 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:10,640 Speaker 1: attendants are managing potential conflicts and de escalating. We're trained 720 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,520 Speaker 1: in de escalation and flight attendants to a really phenomenal 721 00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,759 Speaker 1: job with that. But these events have been on the 722 00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:20,920 Speaker 1: rise and there are a lot of issues that relate 723 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:25,400 Speaker 1: to that. And you know it, also, all of the 724 00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:29,000 Speaker 1: jobs in aviation you do better as you have experience. 725 00:37:29,080 --> 00:37:32,080 Speaker 1: And so as we're coming out of COVID, and some 726 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,239 Speaker 1: people were not able to get to work because there 727 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:37,799 Speaker 1: wasn't any flights to work, the airlines don't have the 728 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,239 Speaker 1: ability to really plan for a schedule. That makes sense 729 00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,280 Speaker 1: because the shift has gone from business travel to leisure travel, 730 00:37:43,840 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: the markets that are served are different. All of these 731 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,320 Speaker 1: things are adding to it. And then you've got everything 732 00:37:49,360 --> 00:37:52,000 Speaker 1: that happened pre COVID with jamming the seeds together. So 733 00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:53,719 Speaker 1: one of the things that we need to look at 734 00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:56,440 Speaker 1: in this bill, for example, is what Tammy Duckworth is 735 00:37:56,480 --> 00:37:59,920 Speaker 1: putting forward and assessing the evacuation standards and whether or 736 00:38:00,160 --> 00:38:02,919 Speaker 1: not the configuration of the aircraft is even safe, whether 737 00:38:03,040 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: or not there's enough flight attendants in ratio to passengers 738 00:38:06,120 --> 00:38:07,719 Speaker 1: to be able to deal with these things. But yes, 739 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:09,520 Speaker 1: we are trained in this, and the one thing that 740 00:38:09,560 --> 00:38:12,239 Speaker 1: I would say to anyone who's flying is wait for 741 00:38:12,239 --> 00:38:14,640 Speaker 1: flight attendants to instruct you to get involved. Let us 742 00:38:14,680 --> 00:38:16,719 Speaker 1: know if you see a problem brewing, so that we 743 00:38:16,760 --> 00:38:19,120 Speaker 1: can get to it as soon as possible. We're experts 744 00:38:19,120 --> 00:38:22,279 Speaker 1: in doing this, and we will give instruction to passengers 745 00:38:22,320 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 1: when and if we think they need to help. The 746 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:27,120 Speaker 1: only time a passenger should ever get up without a 747 00:38:27,120 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 1: flight attendant asking for it is if you see imminent 748 00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:32,680 Speaker 1: danger of someone being harmed. Wow, I see these videos 749 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,439 Speaker 1: just like everyone else does, Sarah either chilling. I can't 750 00:38:35,440 --> 00:38:37,920 Speaker 1: even imagine what I would do if I was sitting 751 00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:40,720 Speaker 1: next to you in front, over behind somebody who decided 752 00:38:40,760 --> 00:38:43,440 Speaker 1: to push it to that level on an airplane. Are 753 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:48,399 Speaker 1: you coming to Washington to testify when this gets going? Oh? Yes, 754 00:38:48,520 --> 00:38:51,440 Speaker 1: I'm sure I'll be up there testifying again. And I 755 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:55,319 Speaker 1: am here, and we are talking a lawmakers every single day, 756 00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,359 Speaker 1: with many of them last night and speaking to a 757 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:00,000 Speaker 1: couple of them right after we get off the phone. 758 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:03,280 Speaker 1: And we even have fifty activists from around the country 759 00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: who are here up on the hill right now talking 760 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,120 Speaker 1: about these issues with their representatives. Talking with Sarah Nelson 761 00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:12,560 Speaker 1: of the Association of Flight Attendants. Your name was on 762 00:39:12,600 --> 00:39:14,719 Speaker 1: a shortlist. We kept hearing Sarah to be the next 763 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:18,480 Speaker 1: Labor Secretary. I just wonder if if that was real, 764 00:39:18,520 --> 00:39:20,160 Speaker 1: if you talk to the White House, and if that's 765 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:23,919 Speaker 1: a job you'd ever be interested in. So it was real. 766 00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:28,360 Speaker 1: Senator Sanders made it real, and I was very clear 767 00:39:28,480 --> 00:39:32,600 Speaker 1: that I think that it's really important that we all 768 00:39:32,640 --> 00:39:34,920 Speaker 1: are doing the jobs that are important. Julie Sue is 769 00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,839 Speaker 1: a phenomenal Deputy Secretary. I actually wish that she had 770 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:40,640 Speaker 1: been tapped for Labor Secretary right from the beginning, but 771 00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:44,440 Speaker 1: I'm so so so happy that she has gotten the 772 00:39:44,480 --> 00:39:48,480 Speaker 1: nomination from the President. Now we're good friends, and frankly, 773 00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:51,000 Speaker 1: you know she's doing a great job inside government. There 774 00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:54,359 Speaker 1: has to be a good people pushing from outside government too, 775 00:39:54,440 --> 00:39:56,960 Speaker 1: so it would have been hard to turn down a 776 00:39:57,000 --> 00:39:59,719 Speaker 1: direct request from the President. But I'm really happy with 777 00:39:59,719 --> 00:40:02,120 Speaker 1: the way that it turned out. Well, that's great to hear, 778 00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:03,680 Speaker 1: and I hope that you'll stay in touch with us 779 00:40:03,680 --> 00:40:06,920 Speaker 1: because we value your insights. Sarah. Sarah Nelson is president 780 00:40:07,040 --> 00:40:08,880 Speaker 1: of the Association of Flight Attendants