1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:03,480 Speaker 1: The Investor. Peter Cowley has a third book out, The 2 00:00:03,520 --> 00:00:07,240 Speaker 1: Cambridge Entrepreneur and Angel Investor. Is the author of the 3 00:00:07,280 --> 00:00:11,560 Speaker 1: startup bestseller The Handbook Really the Invested Investor. Now he's 4 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:16,200 Speaker 1: focused not on business but on his personal story, public success, 5 00:00:16,440 --> 00:00:21,680 Speaker 1: private Grief. It charts Peter's struggles through alcoholism, the loss 6 00:00:21,680 --> 00:00:25,320 Speaker 1: of two sons to suicide, and now a terminal cancer 7 00:00:25,360 --> 00:00:29,120 Speaker 1: diagnosis in his final book, one in which he puts 8 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:32,960 Speaker 1: his business career into perspective. I went to Cambridge to 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:36,320 Speaker 1: meet Peter Cowley for a conversation about his life, the 10 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:40,159 Speaker 1: VC business and loss. I started by asking him what 11 00:00:40,320 --> 00:00:41,720 Speaker 1: first drew him into. 12 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 2: His career with the people. I didn't really realize that 13 00:00:44,960 --> 00:00:48,519 Speaker 2: to start with, but once I got involved and started 14 00:00:48,560 --> 00:00:53,199 Speaker 2: to have entrepreneurs were generally about half a generation to 15 00:00:53,240 --> 00:00:56,240 Speaker 2: a generation younger than me. So and nowadays the generation 16 00:00:56,320 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 2: to generation and a half. The people's spending time with 17 00:01:00,040 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 2: those people the ones a good entrepreneur will listen because 18 00:01:04,560 --> 00:01:06,520 Speaker 2: they have to listen to the market. They have to 19 00:01:06,520 --> 00:01:09,280 Speaker 2: listen to customers, they have to listen to regulators, and 20 00:01:09,480 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 2: sometimes they do a listen to investors as well, and 21 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:14,319 Speaker 2: they certain need to listen to staff. So they are 22 00:01:14,319 --> 00:01:18,520 Speaker 2: passionate and they are willing to learn. So I found 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:24,040 Speaker 2: that spending time with these people was very invigorating and 24 00:01:24,200 --> 00:01:27,480 Speaker 2: of course taught me a lot about things about technology, 25 00:01:28,120 --> 00:01:31,840 Speaker 2: about market and so I just got pulled into this 26 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:34,240 Speaker 2: spending time with interesting people. 27 00:01:34,920 --> 00:01:38,479 Speaker 1: You've written this new book, which is much more personal. 28 00:01:38,880 --> 00:01:42,640 Speaker 1: Tell us about why you wrote the book, and obviously 29 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:46,399 Speaker 1: that you've been struck by some of the worst things 30 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:47,360 Speaker 1: that happen to people. 31 00:01:48,080 --> 00:01:50,760 Speaker 2: Of course, as many people said, seem to have been 32 00:01:50,840 --> 00:01:54,680 Speaker 2: unlucky compared with most people. So the book is called 33 00:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,840 Speaker 2: public Success, Private Grief. The public success we've just talked about. 34 00:01:59,200 --> 00:02:03,960 Speaker 2: The private grief is now not so private. So I 35 00:02:04,040 --> 00:02:06,480 Speaker 2: lost my brother to cancer when he was twenty one. 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:09,840 Speaker 2: I lost my sister to alcoholism when she was fifty one. 37 00:02:10,680 --> 00:02:12,919 Speaker 2: I lost my first wife, the mother and my children. 38 00:02:13,000 --> 00:02:15,600 Speaker 2: She died of DBT when she was fifty one or 39 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,880 Speaker 2: fifty two. I suffer FM alcoholism, though I've not had 40 00:02:19,919 --> 00:02:22,919 Speaker 2: a drink for nearly twenty four years. Sometime next month, 41 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: I've got late stage cancer. That's what really triggered writing 42 00:02:28,160 --> 00:02:29,760 Speaker 2: the book. I'll tell him about that at the moment. 43 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:33,200 Speaker 2: But the two things that were really are so painful 44 00:02:33,600 --> 00:02:35,400 Speaker 2: even to talk about, well, to talk about what I 45 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:37,320 Speaker 2: am doing, of course, is the loss of two children. 46 00:02:37,919 --> 00:02:40,239 Speaker 2: So I had three boys who were two years apart, 47 00:02:41,800 --> 00:02:44,760 Speaker 2: and my middle son died when he was twenty three, 48 00:02:45,080 --> 00:02:48,079 Speaker 2: and my youngest son died who helped her with a 49 00:02:48,160 --> 00:02:50,280 Speaker 2: book project, died when he was thirty four, a couple 50 00:02:50,320 --> 00:02:54,120 Speaker 2: of years ago. Anyway, it is exactly if you've got 51 00:02:54,160 --> 00:02:57,480 Speaker 2: any children, anybody who's listeners has got children, don't go there, 52 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,520 Speaker 2: don't think about it. And then I was diagnosed with 53 00:03:01,680 --> 00:03:05,880 Speaker 2: late stage four non smoking lung cancer. So one in 54 00:03:06,000 --> 00:03:10,160 Speaker 2: five lung cancer sufferers haven't smoked, and unfortunately we're the 55 00:03:10,200 --> 00:03:13,040 Speaker 2: people who don't. Is not detected still quite late, so 56 00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 2: it was all over my body, my brain, well, lots 57 00:03:16,880 --> 00:03:19,240 Speaker 2: of places in the body when he was detected. So 58 00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:21,560 Speaker 2: that happened at the end of twenty one. And then 59 00:03:21,639 --> 00:03:24,560 Speaker 2: Alan died at the end of twenty two. And because 60 00:03:24,560 --> 00:03:27,920 Speaker 2: I've written stuff before, and I'm sure I've helped a 61 00:03:27,919 --> 00:03:29,800 Speaker 2: lot of people, lots of entrepreneurs, a lot of people 62 00:03:29,800 --> 00:03:33,080 Speaker 2: in the charity sector over the time, I just felt 63 00:03:33,120 --> 00:03:35,120 Speaker 2: there was another book in me basically, but not a 64 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:36,600 Speaker 2: book in the sense of the other two, which are 65 00:03:36,680 --> 00:03:41,760 Speaker 2: business books. A book that is personal, very personal and inspirational. 66 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:44,720 Speaker 2: Because I don't know, I come from Yorkshire. I've always 67 00:03:44,760 --> 00:03:47,640 Speaker 2: been very direct, almost two direct. I'm sure I've just 68 00:03:47,680 --> 00:03:50,520 Speaker 2: decided to open it all. So I've written a book 69 00:03:50,520 --> 00:03:52,200 Speaker 2: which is basically a memoir. 70 00:03:52,880 --> 00:03:54,560 Speaker 1: What do you hope the messages? Who do you hope 71 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 1: is going to read the book? And also what do 72 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,240 Speaker 1: you think that people are going to learn from it? 73 00:03:59,280 --> 00:04:01,320 Speaker 1: Because I think the title of the book sort of 74 00:04:01,320 --> 00:04:05,160 Speaker 1: expresses it, you know, very very well. And I think 75 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: that that people listening maybe who are facing these sorts 76 00:04:10,360 --> 00:04:12,840 Speaker 1: of struggles, whatever they may be, what are they going 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 1: to be able to take in terms of inspiration or 78 00:04:16,520 --> 00:04:18,360 Speaker 1: just kind of the will to go on. 79 00:04:18,760 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: It's just inspiration for getting on with life, not sweating 80 00:04:22,760 --> 00:04:25,280 Speaker 2: the small stuff, as the Americans say, you know, you're asking, 81 00:04:25,720 --> 00:04:27,880 Speaker 2: you know, doing the stuff that might not be might 82 00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:30,160 Speaker 2: not be around tomorrow, to achieve. 83 00:04:30,360 --> 00:04:32,599 Speaker 1: Is it the to do list? I mean, it seems 84 00:04:32,640 --> 00:04:35,120 Speaker 1: so terribly vc to say I'm going to make a 85 00:04:35,120 --> 00:04:36,960 Speaker 1: business plan and I'm going to make the best of 86 00:04:37,000 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 1: this awful situation. Is that just the bottom line that's. 87 00:04:41,000 --> 00:04:42,840 Speaker 2: One of it? And I have both what I call 88 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:44,599 Speaker 2: my bucket list, which we've all heard of, and I 89 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,680 Speaker 2: also have a list and you can. 90 00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:48,760 Speaker 1: Probably imagine might not be able to put that on radio. 91 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,040 Speaker 2: Okay, I also have an effort list. Yes, so this, 92 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:55,880 Speaker 2: of course it seems that I don't know what to 93 00:04:55,920 --> 00:04:57,520 Speaker 2: do any longer. There are things that I would have 94 00:04:57,560 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 2: done before that you know. 95 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:00,920 Speaker 1: I go on a few of those. 96 00:05:01,160 --> 00:05:05,200 Speaker 2: Well, even things like speaking at events, like mentoring people, 97 00:05:05,320 --> 00:05:07,520 Speaker 2: like talking to entrepreneurs. There's a lot of things I 98 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:08,320 Speaker 2: just think, No. 99 00:05:08,560 --> 00:05:09,799 Speaker 1: You don't want to do it anymore. 100 00:05:09,920 --> 00:05:11,960 Speaker 2: I've got why not, Well, it's because I haven't got 101 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,120 Speaker 2: that long left. Because unfortunately, because it's stage four, I 102 00:05:15,160 --> 00:05:17,800 Speaker 2: do know that from the research that it's unlikely that 103 00:05:17,880 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 2: I live past much past the end of this year. 104 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:23,000 Speaker 2: Now this is statistical, of course, but you know the 105 00:05:23,040 --> 00:05:27,840 Speaker 2: statistical mean half is already before that date and half afterwards, 106 00:05:28,240 --> 00:05:31,360 Speaker 2: and so something could happen even during twenty twenty four. 107 00:05:31,880 --> 00:05:34,120 Speaker 2: So yeah, getting on with things. I mean, there's a 108 00:05:34,160 --> 00:05:36,040 Speaker 2: number of lessons in the book. It isn't just that 109 00:05:36,120 --> 00:05:38,040 Speaker 2: there's a number of business lessons. Even in the book. 110 00:05:38,040 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 2: It's not a self help which we did think about doing. 111 00:05:41,680 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 2: It's a memoir which has got a description in there 112 00:05:44,240 --> 00:05:47,479 Speaker 2: so that people can read and hopefully work out from 113 00:05:47,480 --> 00:05:50,279 Speaker 2: their own circumstances, which might have to do with something 114 00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:52,800 Speaker 2: else and maybe just business failure. They can maybe even 115 00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:55,840 Speaker 2: from that and the process of the business failing, learn 116 00:05:56,800 --> 00:06:00,640 Speaker 2: how to cope with their own character and not disappear 117 00:06:00,680 --> 00:06:03,320 Speaker 2: into a well of grief. 118 00:06:03,440 --> 00:06:06,960 Speaker 1: I also as a parent myself, it is the horrifying 119 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:10,839 Speaker 1: bit of losing children is so awful. How you how 120 00:06:10,839 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: you dealt personally with that in the aftermath. 121 00:06:14,920 --> 00:06:18,359 Speaker 2: We couldn't have had this conversation within three months of 122 00:06:18,400 --> 00:06:20,560 Speaker 2: his death. I just wouldn't have been able to talk 123 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:23,880 Speaker 2: about it without ending up in not being able to speak. 124 00:06:24,040 --> 00:06:29,960 Speaker 2: In fact, obviously I grieve and miss both sons tremendously. 125 00:06:30,480 --> 00:06:32,760 Speaker 2: But life I need to get on with my life, 126 00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,640 Speaker 2: you know, I need to. It bubbles up. Sometimes. It 127 00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:37,760 Speaker 2: hasn't bubbled up during this interview, but he could easily 128 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:44,040 Speaker 2: have done and whether And part of it, of course, 129 00:06:44,160 --> 00:06:46,920 Speaker 2: is not so much the busyness, but giving back, and 130 00:06:47,480 --> 00:06:50,120 Speaker 2: this book is about that. It's about trying to help 131 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,640 Speaker 2: other people. I haven't really answered your question, but it's 132 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:54,840 Speaker 2: that's because I don't really know in the end, but 133 00:06:54,880 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: I'm just not sure how I've coped. You know, there 134 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:03,160 Speaker 2: isn't a magic one to coping with tragedies. And I 135 00:07:03,200 --> 00:07:05,599 Speaker 2: don't think it's because I'm a cold creature that just 136 00:07:05,720 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: buries it or ignores it, or my skin shells so sick. 137 00:07:09,040 --> 00:07:14,320 Speaker 2: I think I really have sort of been lucky. I 138 00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:18,360 Speaker 2: had the right assistance at the right time, and I 139 00:07:18,400 --> 00:07:23,360 Speaker 2: had something to redirect my grief and my addiction into, 140 00:07:23,440 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 2: which has been positive benefit. 141 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, a lot of our audience they're very young, and 142 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,920 Speaker 1: they're in the city, and they're in financial services, and 143 00:07:31,960 --> 00:07:36,720 Speaker 1: it's all about making money, and I just I don't know. 144 00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:39,720 Speaker 1: I think you've had experience in that world of trying 145 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:42,000 Speaker 1: to make it, you know that kind of really the 146 00:07:42,160 --> 00:07:44,560 Speaker 1: drive of trying to build your own business, trying to 147 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:46,960 Speaker 1: do well. It's not exactly the same, I think as 148 00:07:46,960 --> 00:07:49,240 Speaker 1: being in financial services in the city kind of being 149 00:07:49,280 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 1: in VC. But I suppose what would you say to 150 00:07:53,640 --> 00:07:58,080 Speaker 1: those people about the point of it of the money making. 151 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:01,520 Speaker 2: Yeah, money isn't the bial. We all know that. I mean, 152 00:08:01,520 --> 00:08:04,320 Speaker 2: even that your listeners will know that. In principle. It 153 00:08:04,360 --> 00:08:07,080 Speaker 2: would be really great if they are in the city, 154 00:08:07,120 --> 00:08:08,960 Speaker 2: and they staying there, they get to the point at 155 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:11,640 Speaker 2: say the age of thirty five, they back out and 156 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,640 Speaker 2: then they use that money and the time for something else, 157 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,840 Speaker 2: you know, going to teaching, help charities with time as 158 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: well as money, etc. I've been obviously, I had customers 159 00:08:23,320 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 2: in the city, so I've spent time with people in 160 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,680 Speaker 2: the city. And it is pretty frantic lifestyle. This isn't 161 00:08:29,720 --> 00:08:32,120 Speaker 2: a rehearsal. Life is not rehearsal. We all know that 162 00:08:32,120 --> 00:08:36,320 Speaker 2: that's very hackney, isn't it. Enjoy life in some way 163 00:08:36,440 --> 00:08:41,640 Speaker 2: get the balance right between personal life and work life. 164 00:08:41,640 --> 00:08:42,760 Speaker 2: And I definitely got it wrong.