Speaker 1: Sale Bloom.
Speaker 2: That's our producer.
Speaker 3: Federica Romanello asking people in Italy what they think about
Speaker 3: their prime minister, Georgia Maloney.
Speaker 4: Maloney a person, She's intelligent, and it's troubled to me.
Speaker 4: She's not the best premier.
Speaker 2: There's better out of there.
Speaker 5: George Maloney is currently doing positive things that I'm interested
Speaker 5: in on a social list.
Speaker 2: I'm not in favor of her ideology. I don't really
Speaker 2: get along with it. An excellent choice.
Speaker 3: Last autumn, after forming a coalition with other right wing
Speaker 3: parties and then winning the majority of the vote in
Speaker 3: a general election, Georgia Maloney became the new Prime Minister
Speaker 3: of Italy.
Speaker 6: Italy has sworn in its first female prime minister, and
Speaker 6: in doing so, the most right wing government the country
Speaker 6: has seen in decades.
Speaker 3: She came to power after twenty months of Mario Draghi's government,
Speaker 3: At a time when Italy was preoccupied with issues that
Speaker 3: worried the entire continent.
Speaker 7: The Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation.
Speaker 4: Electricity bills are sorry, gas reserves are depleting, and winter
Speaker 4: is coming.
Speaker 7: The Eurozone is almost certain to enter a recession.
Speaker 3: Many still associate Georgia Maloney with the politician that a
Speaker 3: few years ago shouted on stage at a rally.
Speaker 2: I'm Georgia.
Speaker 3: I'm a woman, I'm a mother, I'm Italian, I'm a Christian.
Speaker 3: You won't take that away from me. But nine months
Speaker 3: into her government, she's proving to be somewhat more moderate
Speaker 3: in her policies than many expected her to be.
Speaker 1: She still has her ideas, but she's playing the moderate
Speaker 1: on things that are important, and so she might last
Speaker 1: quite a long time.
Speaker 3: That's Bloomberg's Alessandro Miacco and together with Kiera Albanese, they
Speaker 3: joined me from Rome to talk about Georgia Maloney.
Speaker 2: A head of a visit to the White House.
Speaker 4: So the key question is will this meeting be a
Speaker 4: promotion and enough of me for Italy? Looking ahead?
Speaker 3: I'm Roslin Matheson in for Wes Kasova today on The
Speaker 3: Big Take. As Joe Biden welcomes Georgia Maloney in Washington,
Speaker 3: we take a close look at the Italian Prime Minister's politics.
Speaker 3: Georgia Maloney is really one of those highly intriguing leaders,
Speaker 3: a person where there's a lot of things people know
Speaker 3: about her or think they know about her, and a
Speaker 3: lot of presumptions about her, sort of baked in narratives
Speaker 3: that have been around for a long time. So I'd
Speaker 3: like to just start by talking a bit about her
Speaker 3: background and what drives her and how she went from
Speaker 3: being somewhat on the fringes of Italian politics to being
Speaker 3: Prime minister. Kiara, can you lay the table a bit
Speaker 3: about what we know about Maloney in her background?
Speaker 4: Georgia Maloney is a fascinating political figure. She's not a fascist.
Speaker 4: She is a politician by career. She started her political
Speaker 4: career where she was just in her teens. She just
Speaker 4: joined a local branch of a far right party and
Speaker 4: since then she's never stopped. She is a lot of.
Speaker 2: Firsts as well.
Speaker 4: She is the first female prime minister in Italy. She
Speaker 4: is also the first far right prime minister in Italy,
Speaker 4: and she is leading a coalition of very vocal partners,
Speaker 4: including for example Matteo Salvini, but she is clearly dominating
Speaker 4: them and calling the shots. So she is somehow a
Speaker 4: descendant from the Mussolini heritage, but after a long series
Speaker 4: of generations and changes, and during those changes also her
Speaker 4: ideology has changed a lot. She is not preaching for
Speaker 4: Italy to get out of the Eurozone. She is a
Speaker 4: pro NATO, pro Ukraine supporters, got very traditional ideas, for
Speaker 4: example when it comes to civil rights, to how a
Speaker 4: family should be formed. But she does not want to
Speaker 4: rock the boat or just change Italy from the foundations.
Speaker 4: She doesn't want to change the fundamental framework of the institutions.
Speaker 4: And this is basically a mix of her background and
Speaker 4: also an adaptation of what it means to lead the
Speaker 4: third biggest Eurozone economy.
Speaker 3: And I'm curious, Alessandra your thoughts about this because Kiara
Speaker 3: talked about how Mileney's ideology has changed over the years,
Speaker 3: at least what she's saying. But do you see also
Speaker 3: that ideology of hers has become less sharp? And is
Speaker 3: that the idea when you think about leaders elsewhere like
Speaker 3: in France you're in La pan for example, has sort
Speaker 3: of refined her narrative over the years, turn away become
Speaker 3: more palatable to a broad population.
Speaker 2: Do you see parallels there?
Speaker 1: Yes, I do, and I actually think Malone's moving more
Speaker 1: to the center than Marine La Penn. Basically, I think
Speaker 1: Maloney's seen her opportunity. She's saying that she can become
Speaker 1: the new conservative right, and because well now recently seely
Speaker 1: Brusconi has died, so we don't have ber Lusconi's I
Speaker 1: guess you could call it center right party. You do
Speaker 1: have Matteo Salvini, who is the leader of the League party,
Speaker 1: who is very far right. Very soon there will be
Speaker 1: European elections, and we can see her trying to move
Speaker 1: not with the far right party within Europe, but she's
Speaker 1: trying to be on board with the center right. She
Speaker 1: wants to be with the relatively moderate right. So I
Speaker 1: think she's seen that she can hold power for many,
Speaker 1: many years if she uses different words, presents herself differently,
Speaker 1: and particularly on economic policy and such things, she doesn't
Speaker 1: rock the boat.
Speaker 3: When she came in, there were all these, in a
Speaker 3: way sort of narratives and conceptions about her and ideas
Speaker 3: of how she'd go as prime minister.
Speaker 2: Much all of this has surprised you, Alessandra.
Speaker 1: I was a bit surprised because I did believe that
Speaker 1: she was fundamentally an heir of that party. But then
Speaker 1: I saw pretty quickly that she plans to stay as
Speaker 1: long as possible, and she's not going to do anything crazy,
Speaker 1: as we said, to rock the vote too much. I
Speaker 1: think she was also as far as economic policy is concerned.
Speaker 1: You know, she followed Dragi and she saw how that
Speaker 1: his government, Mario Draghi, who had a technical government before Maloney,
Speaker 1: gave stability. She realized that she wanted to aim for
Speaker 1: that stability. But she has more power really because she
Speaker 1: has the vote behind her. I was surprised at how
Speaker 1: quickly she sort of managed to transform herself. But then again,
Speaker 1: she's someone who's been in politics since she was sixteen,
Speaker 1: so she does have that experience. She still has her ideas,
Speaker 1: but she's playing the moderate on things that are important,
Speaker 1: and so she might last quite a long time.
Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about that jeriability question, Kiara. Are we
Speaker 3: seeing an unusual period of stability in Italian politics? Is
Speaker 3: Maloney potentially able to see out a term and even beyond.
Speaker 4: In Italy, government on average last just over a year.
Speaker 4: Italy has had about seventy governments after the Second World War,
Speaker 4: and so you can just easily guess how instable our
Speaker 4: political system is now. Georgia Maloney could be the first
Speaker 4: person that lasts as Prime Minister the full term, which
Speaker 4: is five years. There is no political position to her,
Speaker 4: so the left of the moment is basically divided and
Speaker 4: slightly lost. The parties that are in government with her
Speaker 4: have no incentive to create any issues and threaten the stability,
Speaker 4: so she is stable. But ross I remember a conversation
Speaker 4: we had in Rome over a good coffee, and during
Speaker 4: that conversation that we had, I told you in Italy
Speaker 4: you never know when a government crisis starts. It can
Speaker 4: happen unexpectedly.
Speaker 3: Kiara, let's talk a bit more about expectations versus reality.
Speaker 3: We've sort of talked about what would some of the
Speaker 3: preconceived ideas about her going too this administration. We've talked
Speaker 3: about the possibility she may be the first leader in
Speaker 3: a while to really last a full term in Italy.
Speaker 3: But how would you describe it so far for her
Speaker 3: in terms of expectations versus reality.
Speaker 4: Look, ross I have to say that expectations have very
Speaker 4: much met reality. She pledged to remain very loyal to
Speaker 4: the United States policies and to not turn her back
Speaker 4: on Ukraine, and she has done so. At the same time,
Speaker 4: the expectations was that she was not going to change
Speaker 4: too much Italy's position within the European Union. These expectations
Speaker 4: has also been met and also expectations that she was
Speaker 4: going to change slightly social policies. Those happened as well,
Speaker 4: and this is the area in which she is showing
Speaker 4: her more far right ideas.
Speaker 7: The Italian government earns has recently approved a bill that
Speaker 7: will criminalize sarrogacy for all the citizens in the country.
Speaker 4: As well as abroad.
Speaker 3: On Alessandra, you've talked about sort of recent events, including
Speaker 3: the death of Silvio Berlosconi. Oversee a giant in Italian politics,
Speaker 3: a controversial giant, but one nonetheless.
Speaker 6: Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has passed away at
Speaker 6: the age of eighty six, self described as if Jesus
Speaker 6: Christ of politics is legacy is complicated to say the least.
Speaker 3: How does this fit into things for Georgia Maloney? Does
Speaker 3: his death make her arguably more powerful in Italian politics?
Speaker 1: Certainly his death leaves a vacuum. Where those votes go
Speaker 1: and where those are members of Parliament, those unions politicians
Speaker 1: go is very, very important. It's hard to say exactly
Speaker 1: what will happen. Initially, the idea was that probably, you know,
Speaker 1: they would sort of spread out, some going towards Georgia Miloney,
Speaker 1: some towards Matteo Salvini, tensions can increase. So as we
Speaker 1: move away, you know, from the moment of Berlus Corne's death,
Speaker 1: we're moving into a free for all and a fight
Speaker 1: for power, and it's a little bit hard to say
Speaker 1: what will happen next from that.
Speaker 2: Point of view.
Speaker 3: How much is the economy on her side in this, Alessandro,
Speaker 3: We've talked a bit about the stability there and that
Speaker 3: being a key.
Speaker 2: Question for her first start.
Speaker 3: It is the third biggest economy in Europe, so it
Speaker 3: matters not just for Italy but for Europe and beyond.
Speaker 3: Is that why we should care really about Italy beyond
Speaker 3: sort of its borders.
Speaker 1: Well, definitely why we should care because it is this
Speaker 1: very big economy. It's a member of the G seven
Speaker 1: in Europe. It has a lot of weight a lot
Speaker 1: of people. When you talk about the finance bits, you know,
Speaker 1: they say it's too big to fail because if something
Speaker 1: really bad happens to the Italian economy, the other European
Speaker 1: economies have to follow because, first of all, Germany and
Speaker 1: France are the biggest trading partner, so anything that really
Speaker 1: goes wrong in Italy would create problems for their economies,
Speaker 1: but also the European Union. If Italy somehow exits or
Speaker 1: something really awful happens, wouldn't be sustainable probably without a
Speaker 1: country of its size we're talking about. Although the population
Speaker 1: is shrinking, it's almost sixty million people, so it is
Speaker 1: also one of the largest countries and a very big economy.
Speaker 1: The Italian economy is relatively weak. That's a big problem.
Speaker 1: It's always sort of on the verge of disaster and
Speaker 1: then never happens. But one of the problems is Italy's
Speaker 1: huge debt. It's a debt that was accumulated in the
Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. There's a long story behind this debt, but
Speaker 1: it's very, very big. It's beyond one hundred and forty
Speaker 1: percent of a gross domestic product, and that means that
Speaker 1: Italy has trouble improving its economy because you know, how
Speaker 1: do you reform, how do you invest if you're busy
Speaker 1: paying off your debt, which is gigantic. Things are looking
Speaker 1: up for her so far, investors think she's relatively stable.
Speaker 1: But the problem is, you know, anytime Italian bombs become
Speaker 1: more expensive for the government, then the debt becomes almost unsustainable,
Speaker 1: and that's a big deal. Europe should care because you know,
Speaker 1: a lot of Italian bonds are in banks all over
Speaker 1: the world and all over Europe. So there are a
Speaker 1: lot of reasons why Italian stability is important to its
Speaker 1: allies and beyond.
Speaker 3: Coming up a closer look at Georgia Maloney's politics and
Speaker 3: what it means for the Italian and global economy, let's
Speaker 3: talk more about Georgia Maloney's policies and actions so far, Kiara,
Speaker 3: we heard earlier about a bill to criminalize Saragasei, but
Speaker 3: what other proposals has the Italian Prime minister put forward
Speaker 3: so far When it comes to changes to civil liberties.
Speaker 4: Civil liberties are definitely one of the areas in which
Speaker 4: she has got more freedom to act in Italy. There
Speaker 4: are some gray areas when it comes to those civil rights,
Speaker 4: where it is easier for a government to just step
Speaker 4: in and implement some views. Her government has been quite
Speaker 4: strict and taken a hardline against same sex families. In
Speaker 4: the past. Many from the ruling party have openly discriminated
Speaker 4: against the group. Some have called gay couples illegal, others
Speaker 4: have took part in anti LGBTQ matches. We have seen
Speaker 4: that just a few months ago, the Interior Ministry asked
Speaker 4: local municipalities to stop registering new certificates with same sex parents.
Speaker 4: And this is one of the areas in which there
Speaker 4: is no clear law, so her government is not changing below,
Speaker 4: she's just interpreting the law in the most right wing
Speaker 4: and conservative way. Poles are showing that Italians are highly
Speaker 4: divided on this matter, but they're also very confused because
Speaker 4: it's very hard to explain in a neutral and non
Speaker 4: politicized way how surrogacy works, how civil rights work. Is
Speaker 4: a technical, etique complicated issue in which usually a lot
Speaker 4: of the decisions are left to the medical field and
Speaker 4: not to a government. So Italians are confused somehow. They
Speaker 4: like the idea of traditional families, you know, a married
Speaker 4: man and woman, but at the same time, the Italian
Speaker 4: society is evolving quickly and familists that do not follow
Speaker 4: a traditional pattern, single parents, people that never married or divorced,
Speaker 4: they don't have an issue in Italy or an Italian society.
Speaker 4: They don't face any sort of differentiation or different treatment.
Speaker 4: So Malone is gambling a bit here with the electorate
Speaker 4: because it's not really clear that her policies are going
Speaker 4: to be reflected in more consensus for her party.
Speaker 3: Moving onto the economy, Alessandra, you were talking earlier about
Speaker 3: how Georgia Maloney doesn't really seem to have big problems
Speaker 3: at the moment with investors, But is Italy still a
Speaker 3: cause for fiscal concern because you know, the EE Recovery
Speaker 3: Fund is coming back onto the table and our listeners,
Speaker 3: of course, that's the multi billion euro recovery instrument. It
Speaker 3: was temporary and designed to support economies in the EU
Speaker 3: following the coronavirus pandemic, and we're going to hear a
Speaker 3: lot more talk in Europe about fiscal matters as a result.
Speaker 3: So I'm curious is Italy going to get tangled up
Speaker 3: in that again?
Speaker 1: Italy is a country that has some serious issues. We
Speaker 1: were talking about debt. The debt is very, very high,
Speaker 1: very hard to control. Right now. Europe, you know, is
Speaker 1: in the process of renegotiating how fiscal rules will be
Speaker 1: in the future. Now that the crisis of COVID is
Speaker 1: over and the energy crisis is over. What are European
Speaker 1: countries going to do about deciding how to manage their
Speaker 1: fiscal policy? And Miloney is making some noises and she's
Speaker 1: sort of saying, yes, well, you know, you should consider
Speaker 1: each separate country differently depending on their situation. That clearly
Speaker 1: means she wants some leeway, she wants some fiscal leeway.
Speaker 1: She wants to be able to spend to reward her electorate.
Speaker 1: It's still, you know, early days, they're still negotiating on
Speaker 1: the stability packed, but there will be some trouble there.
Speaker 1: And on the other hand, you mentioned the recovery fund.
Speaker 4: European leaders have agreed on a landmark stimulus package that
Speaker 4: will see the block issue seven hundred and fifty billion
Speaker 4: euros of joint debt.
Speaker 1: Italy was basically offered over one hundred and ninety billion
Speaker 1: euros and that is incredible. That is almost like a
Speaker 1: Marshall plan. It's it's something Italy's never seen because with
Speaker 1: the kind of debt it has, it doesn't have that
Speaker 1: kind of money to spend on bettering infrastructure, schools, green energy.
Speaker 1: So if they are not able to use recovery funds
Speaker 1: properly or quickly enough, that's truly tragic. You know, it
Speaker 1: will look bad to their European partners who have put
Speaker 1: up the money, and it will mean a huge lost opportunity.
Speaker 1: But we know at the same time that Italy is
Speaker 1: very good at, you know, losing opportunities. They've not been
Speaker 1: able to spend money in the past, so that is
Speaker 1: a very very big challenge for Maloney and I think
Speaker 1: markets they're waiting still, but they made judge her on
Speaker 1: that one.
Speaker 3: Every few years it rolls around this idea again that
Speaker 3: countries in Europe start to say, well, we should consider
Speaker 3: our individual circumstances and all this when we're talking about fiscal.
Speaker 2: Matters as a whole.
Speaker 3: But also there sort has seemed to be some emerging
Speaker 3: tensions with the ECB, the European Central Bank. We're starting
Speaker 3: to see some nascent stuff around that.
Speaker 7: The European Central Bank in the last few moments has
Speaker 7: raised its main policy rate by quarter of one percent.
Speaker 7: That takes its main deposit rate from three percent two
Speaker 7: three and a quarter percent.
Speaker 2: How much of a deal is that really for Italy?
Speaker 1: It is a very big deal. There's two issues. One
Speaker 1: is the reality, which is that obviously as rates increase,
Speaker 1: it's a problem for Italy because it becomes harder to
Speaker 1: manage its debt it's more expensive. And then there's the
Speaker 1: part that's internal. She has to show a little bit
Speaker 1: that she's still Milney, so she's still someone who can
Speaker 1: stand up to Europe, someone who can complain when it's
Speaker 1: time and put Italy first, because pac Italian governments were
Speaker 1: very collaborative. But Miloney's on this platform of Italy first,
Speaker 1: Italy first, Italy first, and the ECB is one place
Speaker 1: where she can show that she's banging her fists. Now
Speaker 1: whether in reality that actually matters not so much, because
Speaker 1: if inflation remains high, the ECB is not doing it
Speaker 1: to punish Italy or the other countries like Spain and Greece.
Speaker 1: The ECB is doing it to keep inflation down.
Speaker 3: Alessandra, you mentioned this idea of Italy first, and with
Speaker 3: this Georgia Maloney is sort of getting her fingers a
Speaker 3: bit into state control companies and this idea of protecting
Speaker 3: Italian businesses and industries.
Speaker 1: Top of Prime Minister of Georgia Meloney's Italy First agenda
Speaker 1: is a creation of national champions in areas from energy
Speaker 1: to fashion and luxury and a sovereign wealth fund.
Speaker 3: When you look at key state assets, you've got the
Speaker 3: lights of the energy giants Ennel and Any and defense
Speaker 3: company Leonardo. They all recently underwent a bit of a
Speaker 3: changing of the guard with new CEOs coming in and
Speaker 3: as a result, Maloney's gotten involved because the government is
Speaker 3: one of the key shareholders and all those companies. Can
Speaker 3: you talk a bit about what her intentions are when
Speaker 3: it comes to the state sector in Italy.
Speaker 1: She came in when all these posts were up for
Speaker 1: renewal and it happens about every three years, so she's
Speaker 1: been quite fortunate. These are very very big state controlled companies,
Speaker 1: big companies that really matter, and she gets to put
Speaker 1: her people in and that means that even if and
Speaker 1: when the government should fall, she will have people that
Speaker 1: have her worldview, so a more nationalist, a more if
Speaker 1: we want to call it Italy first worldview in those spots,
Speaker 1: and that won't change for at least three years. And
Speaker 1: that really matters, you know, because this is like the
Speaker 1: elite of the stock exchange first of all, and people
Speaker 1: who are influencing all kinds of decisions, from energy policy
Speaker 1: to also how we deal in relations with other companies
Speaker 1: out there. I mean E and I for a long
Speaker 1: time was called, you know, the true Foreign Ministry because
Speaker 1: it's so active all over the world with its oil
Speaker 1: and gas interests that it's almost more efficient, some say,
Speaker 1: than the Italian foreign ministry. Her message is typically nationalist.
Speaker 1: She is not going to just collaborate and play nice.
Speaker 1: She wants Italian interest protected, and she also wants things
Speaker 1: like more influence for Italy in its backyard, which is
Speaker 1: really unusual. Italy has not done that since fascism. For example,
Speaker 1: she wants more influence in the Mediterranean.
Speaker 3: There is one area polici area where she has struck
Speaker 3: a bit of trouble, and that's on China Kiara. Italy
Speaker 3: was sort of one of the few nations or large
Speaker 3: nations that signed a proper agreement with China on its
Speaker 3: Belton Road trade and investment programming. And you can see
Speaker 3: her so slightly trying to reverse out of that a bit.
Speaker 3: But she can't reverse all the way out because Italy
Speaker 3: does still need to maintain trade investment ties with China.
Speaker 3: How is she juggling all of that and what kind
Speaker 3: of peril do you see for her in.
Speaker 4: That all eyes are on Meloni just because she has
Speaker 4: to make a public announcement by the end of the year.
Speaker 4: She will have to say publicly either yes or no
Speaker 4: to the Belton Road saying no could just really irritate
Speaker 4: Beijing with possible retaliation.
Speaker 5: The Italian government is reportedly close to pulling out of
Speaker 5: China's Built and Road initiative. Prime Minister Georgia Maloney says
Speaker 5: Rome's further involvement in Chi Jing King's global trade network
Speaker 5: is up the debate.
Speaker 4: There is a lot of pressure from the US and DEAD,
Speaker 4: but at the same time she wants to find a
Speaker 4: way not to really blow it into China's face.
Speaker 3: After the break, what can we expect from the Italian
Speaker 3: leader's visit to Washington, DC? Before we take a closer
Speaker 3: look at Georgia Maloney's relationship with Joe Biden. A head
Speaker 3: of their meeting at the White House, I wanted to
Speaker 3: talk about some of the Italian Prime Minister's key relationships
Speaker 3: with foreign leaders. One that's emerged as being exceptionally fraud
Speaker 3: it's her relationship with the French President Emanuel Macron. Can
Speaker 3: you talk a bit about what's behind the tensions between
Speaker 3: Maloney and Macron.
Speaker 4: I mean, they generally don't really like each other as
Speaker 4: kind of distinctively as people. For Macron, Melonie is a
Speaker 4: sort of nemesis. She is associated to Marine Lapen, even
Speaker 4: if Alexander was saying, they are really different political figures.
Speaker 4: So for Macron is really hard to be seen domestically
Speaker 4: with Malone to be hosting her.
Speaker 3: In the first official meeting outside of international summits. Emanuel
Speaker 3: Macart welcome Georgia Maloney.
Speaker 4: To the and this is contributing to the clash and
Speaker 4: the competition between the two of them. Meloney is just
Speaker 4: coming after Dragi and Dragi and Macron were really close.
Speaker 4: They were friends, they were like on a really good
Speaker 4: personal relationship for years, even before Dragi became Prime minister.
Speaker 4: So you know, it was hard for anyone to follow
Speaker 4: Mari Draghi in lee relations with France.
Speaker 3: Well, you talked about instinctive relationship, the instinctive dislike that
Speaker 3: they seem to have for each other. I'm talking about
Speaker 3: Maloney and Macron. But Alessandra one area where she seems
Speaker 3: to have an instinctive friendship, a very strong rapport, a
Speaker 3: connection is with the US President Joe Biden.
Speaker 1: President Biden met with Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney for
Speaker 1: the first time today.
Speaker 4: The two leaders spoke during a closed door meeting at
Speaker 4: the G twenty summit in Bali.
Speaker 3: We saw that almost sort of affectionate comments with each
Speaker 3: other at the recent G seven summit where they're both
Speaker 3: in Hiroshima. We've seen it elsewhere, but there does seem
Speaker 3: to be a natural rapport with Joe Biden.
Speaker 2: What's your perception of that.
Speaker 1: It has a lot to do with Malonney's positioning herself
Speaker 1: as a really faithful ally of the US, and that's
Speaker 1: what she wants to convey, and she is sort of
Speaker 1: taking up what was once the center rights position. You know,
Speaker 1: historically Italy after World War Two wanted to be the
Speaker 1: best possible ally for the US. Lots of things have
Speaker 1: happened since then, and there have been other positions, but
Speaker 1: I think Maloney really wants to prove herself. So it's
Speaker 1: her really courting, if we could say, Biden, you know,
Speaker 1: wanting to show she really is going to be a
Speaker 1: great ally and hoping as well. It's sort of typical
Speaker 1: historically of the Italian right to want contracts with the
Speaker 1: US and go in that direction. Every time we've had
Speaker 1: a right wing government, the companies have done more business
Speaker 1: with the United States.
Speaker 3: Kiara, looking ahead to the meeting between Joe Biden and
Speaker 3: Georgia Maloney what are some of the things we should
Speaker 3: be expecting from that.
Speaker 4: There is a lot of expectation from the Italian side
Speaker 4: of how important it is to be hosted at the
Speaker 4: White House. So the key question that we want to
Speaker 4: see out of that meeting is that will Georgia Meloney
Speaker 4: be somehow promoted to first tier leader? Will she still
Speaker 4: remain somehow on the fringes when it comes to the
Speaker 4: decision making in Europe. We have seen that she has
Speaker 4: a really good relation with Joe Biden. They've been hugging
Speaker 4: and smiling and praising each other a lot. But when
Speaker 4: it comes to the key calls in which for example,
Speaker 4: Russia's invasion of Ukraine is discussed, military support to Ukraine
Speaker 4: is discussed, or key financial decisions, well she has been
Speaker 4: somehow left out, not because of her, but also because
Speaker 4: Italy is the third biggest European economy but is still
Speaker 4: kind of a smaller country when it comes to the
Speaker 4: global stage. So the key question is will this meeting
Speaker 4: be a promotion and an affirmation for Italy looking ahead?
Speaker 2: And what would that look like.
Speaker 3: What should we interpret as science that that's actually happening.
Speaker 3: What's it tangible that she could come away with.
Speaker 4: I think a tangible will be some statements of US support,
Speaker 4: for example on the G seven that Italy will host
Speaker 4: next year. Or also we will look out for, for example,
Speaker 4: invitations of Meloney in key calls ahead or just stronger
Speaker 4: cooperation between the two countries.
Speaker 2: And is there any room for tension?
Speaker 4: I really see tension potentially on the discussion on China.
Speaker 4: The US is really waiting for some signs that Italy
Speaker 4: will pull out of the Belton Road initiative. So the
Speaker 4: question is like, will Meloney really make a move this time?
Speaker 4: A will is she continued to take time? I could
Speaker 4: see some tension and possibly some statement by Biden that
Speaker 4: will force her to take a line.
Speaker 3: Kieren Alessandra, thank you very much for joining me today.
Speaker 3: Thank you thanks for listening to us here at The
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