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Speaker 1: Sale Bloom.

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Speaker 2: That's our producer.

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Speaker 3: Federica Romanello asking people in Italy what they think about

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Speaker 3: their prime minister, Georgia Maloney.

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Speaker 4: Maloney a person, She's intelligent, and it's troubled to me.

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Speaker 4: She's not the best premier.

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Speaker 2: There's better out of there.

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Speaker 5: George Maloney is currently doing positive things that I'm interested

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Speaker 5: in on a social list.

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Speaker 2: I'm not in favor of her ideology. I don't really

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Speaker 2: get along with it. An excellent choice.

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Speaker 3: Last autumn, after forming a coalition with other right wing

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Speaker 3: parties and then winning the majority of the vote in

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Speaker 3: a general election, Georgia Maloney became the new Prime Minister

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Speaker 3: of Italy.

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Speaker 6: Italy has sworn in its first female prime minister, and

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Speaker 6: in doing so, the most right wing government the country

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Speaker 6: has seen in decades.

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Speaker 3: She came to power after twenty months of Mario Draghi's government,

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Speaker 3: At a time when Italy was preoccupied with issues that

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Speaker 3: worried the entire continent.

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Speaker 7: The Russian President Vladimir Putin authorized a special military operation.

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Speaker 4: Electricity bills are sorry, gas reserves are depleting, and winter

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Speaker 4: is coming.

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Speaker 7: The Eurozone is almost certain to enter a recession.

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Speaker 3: Many still associate Georgia Maloney with the politician that a

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Speaker 3: few years ago shouted on stage at a rally.

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Speaker 2: I'm Georgia.

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Speaker 3: I'm a woman, I'm a mother, I'm Italian, I'm a Christian.

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Speaker 3: You won't take that away from me. But nine months

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Speaker 3: into her government, she's proving to be somewhat more moderate

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Speaker 3: in her policies than many expected her to be.

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Speaker 1: She still has her ideas, but she's playing the moderate

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Speaker 1: on things that are important, and so she might last

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Speaker 1: quite a long time.

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Speaker 3: That's Bloomberg's Alessandro Miacco and together with Kiera Albanese, they

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Speaker 3: joined me from Rome to talk about Georgia Maloney.

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Speaker 2: A head of a visit to the White House.

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Speaker 4: So the key question is will this meeting be a

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Speaker 4: promotion and enough of me for Italy? Looking ahead?

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Speaker 3: I'm Roslin Matheson in for Wes Kasova today on The

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Speaker 3: Big Take. As Joe Biden welcomes Georgia Maloney in Washington,

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Speaker 3: we take a close look at the Italian Prime Minister's politics.

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Speaker 3: Georgia Maloney is really one of those highly intriguing leaders,

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Speaker 3: a person where there's a lot of things people know

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Speaker 3: about her or think they know about her, and a

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Speaker 3: lot of presumptions about her, sort of baked in narratives

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Speaker 3: that have been around for a long time. So I'd

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Speaker 3: like to just start by talking a bit about her

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Speaker 3: background and what drives her and how she went from

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Speaker 3: being somewhat on the fringes of Italian politics to being

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Speaker 3: Prime minister. Kiara, can you lay the table a bit

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Speaker 3: about what we know about Maloney in her background?

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Speaker 4: Georgia Maloney is a fascinating political figure. She's not a fascist.

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Speaker 4: She is a politician by career. She started her political

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Speaker 4: career where she was just in her teens. She just

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Speaker 4: joined a local branch of a far right party and

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Speaker 4: since then she's never stopped. She is a lot of.

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Speaker 2: Firsts as well.

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Speaker 4: She is the first female prime minister in Italy. She

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Speaker 4: is also the first far right prime minister in Italy,

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Speaker 4: and she is leading a coalition of very vocal partners,

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Speaker 4: including for example Matteo Salvini, but she is clearly dominating

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Speaker 4: them and calling the shots. So she is somehow a

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Speaker 4: descendant from the Mussolini heritage, but after a long series

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Speaker 4: of generations and changes, and during those changes also her

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Speaker 4: ideology has changed a lot. She is not preaching for

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Speaker 4: Italy to get out of the Eurozone. She is a

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Speaker 4: pro NATO, pro Ukraine supporters, got very traditional ideas, for

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Speaker 4: example when it comes to civil rights, to how a

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Speaker 4: family should be formed. But she does not want to

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Speaker 4: rock the boat or just change Italy from the foundations.

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Speaker 4: She doesn't want to change the fundamental framework of the institutions.

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Speaker 4: And this is basically a mix of her background and

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Speaker 4: also an adaptation of what it means to lead the

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Speaker 4: third biggest Eurozone economy.

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Speaker 3: And I'm curious, Alessandra your thoughts about this because Kiara

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Speaker 3: talked about how Mileney's ideology has changed over the years,

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Speaker 3: at least what she's saying. But do you see also

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Speaker 3: that ideology of hers has become less sharp? And is

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Speaker 3: that the idea when you think about leaders elsewhere like

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Speaker 3: in France you're in La pan for example, has sort

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Speaker 3: of refined her narrative over the years, turn away become

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Speaker 3: more palatable to a broad population.

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Speaker 2: Do you see parallels there?

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Speaker 1: Yes, I do, and I actually think Malone's moving more

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Speaker 1: to the center than Marine La Penn. Basically, I think

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Speaker 1: Maloney's seen her opportunity. She's saying that she can become

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Speaker 1: the new conservative right, and because well now recently seely

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Speaker 1: Brusconi has died, so we don't have ber Lusconi's I

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Speaker 1: guess you could call it center right party. You do

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Speaker 1: have Matteo Salvini, who is the leader of the League party,

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Speaker 1: who is very far right. Very soon there will be

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Speaker 1: European elections, and we can see her trying to move

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Speaker 1: not with the far right party within Europe, but she's

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Speaker 1: trying to be on board with the center right. She

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Speaker 1: wants to be with the relatively moderate right. So I

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Speaker 1: think she's seen that she can hold power for many,

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Speaker 1: many years if she uses different words, presents herself differently,

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Speaker 1: and particularly on economic policy and such things, she doesn't

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Speaker 1: rock the boat.

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Speaker 3: When she came in, there were all these, in a

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Speaker 3: way sort of narratives and conceptions about her and ideas

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Speaker 3: of how she'd go as prime minister.

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Speaker 2: Much all of this has surprised you, Alessandra.

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Speaker 1: I was a bit surprised because I did believe that

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Speaker 1: she was fundamentally an heir of that party. But then

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Speaker 1: I saw pretty quickly that she plans to stay as

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Speaker 1: long as possible, and she's not going to do anything crazy,

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Speaker 1: as we said, to rock the vote too much. I

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Speaker 1: think she was also as far as economic policy is concerned.

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Speaker 1: You know, she followed Dragi and she saw how that

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Speaker 1: his government, Mario Draghi, who had a technical government before Maloney,

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Speaker 1: gave stability. She realized that she wanted to aim for

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Speaker 1: that stability. But she has more power really because she

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Speaker 1: has the vote behind her. I was surprised at how

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Speaker 1: quickly she sort of managed to transform herself. But then again,

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Speaker 1: she's someone who's been in politics since she was sixteen,

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Speaker 1: so she does have that experience. She still has her ideas,

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Speaker 1: but she's playing the moderate on things that are important,

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Speaker 1: and so she might last quite a long time.

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Speaker 3: Well, let's talk about that jeriability question, Kiara. Are we

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Speaker 3: seeing an unusual period of stability in Italian politics? Is

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Speaker 3: Maloney potentially able to see out a term and even beyond.

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Speaker 4: In Italy, government on average last just over a year.

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Speaker 4: Italy has had about seventy governments after the Second World War,

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Speaker 4: and so you can just easily guess how instable our

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Speaker 4: political system is now. Georgia Maloney could be the first

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Speaker 4: person that lasts as Prime Minister the full term, which

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Speaker 4: is five years. There is no political position to her,

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Speaker 4: so the left of the moment is basically divided and

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Speaker 4: slightly lost. The parties that are in government with her

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Speaker 4: have no incentive to create any issues and threaten the stability,

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Speaker 4: so she is stable. But ross I remember a conversation

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Speaker 4: we had in Rome over a good coffee, and during

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Speaker 4: that conversation that we had, I told you in Italy

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Speaker 4: you never know when a government crisis starts. It can

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Speaker 4: happen unexpectedly.

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Speaker 3: Kiara, let's talk a bit more about expectations versus reality.

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Speaker 3: We've sort of talked about what would some of the

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Speaker 3: preconceived ideas about her going too this administration. We've talked

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Speaker 3: about the possibility she may be the first leader in

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Speaker 3: a while to really last a full term in Italy.

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Speaker 3: But how would you describe it so far for her

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Speaker 3: in terms of expectations versus reality.

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Speaker 4: Look, ross I have to say that expectations have very

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Speaker 4: much met reality. She pledged to remain very loyal to

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Speaker 4: the United States policies and to not turn her back

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Speaker 4: on Ukraine, and she has done so. At the same time,

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Speaker 4: the expectations was that she was not going to change

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Speaker 4: too much Italy's position within the European Union. These expectations

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Speaker 4: has also been met and also expectations that she was

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Speaker 4: going to change slightly social policies. Those happened as well,

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Speaker 4: and this is the area in which she is showing

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Speaker 4: her more far right ideas.

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Speaker 7: The Italian government earns has recently approved a bill that

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Speaker 7: will criminalize sarrogacy for all the citizens in the country.

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Speaker 4: As well as abroad.

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Speaker 3: On Alessandra, you've talked about sort of recent events, including

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Speaker 3: the death of Silvio Berlosconi. Oversee a giant in Italian politics,

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Speaker 3: a controversial giant, but one nonetheless.

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Speaker 6: Former Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi has passed away at

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Speaker 6: the age of eighty six, self described as if Jesus

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Speaker 6: Christ of politics is legacy is complicated to say the least.

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Speaker 3: How does this fit into things for Georgia Maloney? Does

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Speaker 3: his death make her arguably more powerful in Italian politics?

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Speaker 1: Certainly his death leaves a vacuum. Where those votes go

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Speaker 1: and where those are members of Parliament, those unions politicians

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Speaker 1: go is very, very important. It's hard to say exactly

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Speaker 1: what will happen. Initially, the idea was that probably, you know,

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Speaker 1: they would sort of spread out, some going towards Georgia Miloney,

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Speaker 1: some towards Matteo Salvini, tensions can increase. So as we

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Speaker 1: move away, you know, from the moment of Berlus Corne's death,

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Speaker 1: we're moving into a free for all and a fight

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Speaker 1: for power, and it's a little bit hard to say

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Speaker 1: what will happen next from that.

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Speaker 2: Point of view.

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Speaker 3: How much is the economy on her side in this, Alessandro,

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Speaker 3: We've talked a bit about the stability there and that

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Speaker 3: being a key.

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Speaker 2: Question for her first start.

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Speaker 3: It is the third biggest economy in Europe, so it

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Speaker 3: matters not just for Italy but for Europe and beyond.

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Speaker 3: Is that why we should care really about Italy beyond

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Speaker 3: sort of its borders.

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Speaker 1: Well, definitely why we should care because it is this

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Speaker 1: very big economy. It's a member of the G seven

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Speaker 1: in Europe. It has a lot of weight a lot

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Speaker 1: of people. When you talk about the finance bits, you know,

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Speaker 1: they say it's too big to fail because if something

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Speaker 1: really bad happens to the Italian economy, the other European

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Speaker 1: economies have to follow because, first of all, Germany and

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Speaker 1: France are the biggest trading partner, so anything that really

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Speaker 1: goes wrong in Italy would create problems for their economies,

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Speaker 1: but also the European Union. If Italy somehow exits or

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Speaker 1: something really awful happens, wouldn't be sustainable probably without a

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Speaker 1: country of its size we're talking about. Although the population

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Speaker 1: is shrinking, it's almost sixty million people, so it is

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Speaker 1: also one of the largest countries and a very big economy.

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Speaker 1: The Italian economy is relatively weak. That's a big problem.

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Speaker 1: It's always sort of on the verge of disaster and

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Speaker 1: then never happens. But one of the problems is Italy's

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Speaker 1: huge debt. It's a debt that was accumulated in the

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Speaker 1: nineteen eighties. There's a long story behind this debt, but

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Speaker 1: it's very, very big. It's beyond one hundred and forty

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Speaker 1: percent of a gross domestic product, and that means that

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Speaker 1: Italy has trouble improving its economy because you know, how

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Speaker 1: do you reform, how do you invest if you're busy

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Speaker 1: paying off your debt, which is gigantic. Things are looking

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Speaker 1: up for her so far, investors think she's relatively stable.

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Speaker 1: But the problem is, you know, anytime Italian bombs become

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Speaker 1: more expensive for the government, then the debt becomes almost unsustainable,

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Speaker 1: and that's a big deal. Europe should care because you know,

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Speaker 1: a lot of Italian bonds are in banks all over

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Speaker 1: the world and all over Europe. So there are a

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Speaker 1: lot of reasons why Italian stability is important to its

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Speaker 1: allies and beyond.

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Speaker 3: Coming up a closer look at Georgia Maloney's politics and

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Speaker 3: what it means for the Italian and global economy, let's

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Speaker 3: talk more about Georgia Maloney's policies and actions so far, Kiara,

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Speaker 3: we heard earlier about a bill to criminalize Saragasei, but

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Speaker 3: what other proposals has the Italian Prime minister put forward

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Speaker 3: so far When it comes to changes to civil liberties.

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Speaker 4: Civil liberties are definitely one of the areas in which

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Speaker 4: she has got more freedom to act in Italy. There

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Speaker 4: are some gray areas when it comes to those civil rights,

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Speaker 4: where it is easier for a government to just step

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Speaker 4: in and implement some views. Her government has been quite

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Speaker 4: strict and taken a hardline against same sex families. In

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Speaker 4: the past. Many from the ruling party have openly discriminated

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Speaker 4: against the group. Some have called gay couples illegal, others

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Speaker 4: have took part in anti LGBTQ matches. We have seen

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Speaker 4: that just a few months ago, the Interior Ministry asked

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Speaker 4: local municipalities to stop registering new certificates with same sex parents.

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Speaker 4: And this is one of the areas in which there

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Speaker 4: is no clear law, so her government is not changing below,

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Speaker 4: she's just interpreting the law in the most right wing

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Speaker 4: and conservative way. Poles are showing that Italians are highly

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Speaker 4: divided on this matter, but they're also very confused because

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Speaker 4: it's very hard to explain in a neutral and non

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Speaker 4: politicized way how surrogacy works, how civil rights work. Is

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Speaker 4: a technical, etique complicated issue in which usually a lot

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Speaker 4: of the decisions are left to the medical field and

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Speaker 4: not to a government. So Italians are confused somehow. They

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Speaker 4: like the idea of traditional families, you know, a married

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Speaker 4: man and woman, but at the same time, the Italian

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Speaker 4: society is evolving quickly and familists that do not follow

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Speaker 4: a traditional pattern, single parents, people that never married or divorced,

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Speaker 4: they don't have an issue in Italy or an Italian society.

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Speaker 4: They don't face any sort of differentiation or different treatment.

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Speaker 4: So Malone is gambling a bit here with the electorate

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Speaker 4: because it's not really clear that her policies are going

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Speaker 4: to be reflected in more consensus for her party.

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Speaker 3: Moving onto the economy, Alessandra, you were talking earlier about

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Speaker 3: how Georgia Maloney doesn't really seem to have big problems

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Speaker 3: at the moment with investors, But is Italy still a

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Speaker 3: cause for fiscal concern because you know, the EE Recovery

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Speaker 3: Fund is coming back onto the table and our listeners,

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Speaker 3: of course, that's the multi billion euro recovery instrument. It

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Speaker 3: was temporary and designed to support economies in the EU

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Speaker 3: following the coronavirus pandemic, and we're going to hear a

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Speaker 3: lot more talk in Europe about fiscal matters as a result.

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Speaker 3: So I'm curious is Italy going to get tangled up

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Speaker 3: in that again?

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Speaker 1: Italy is a country that has some serious issues. We

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Speaker 1: were talking about debt. The debt is very, very high,

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Speaker 1: very hard to control. Right now. Europe, you know, is

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Speaker 1: in the process of renegotiating how fiscal rules will be

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Speaker 1: in the future. Now that the crisis of COVID is

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Speaker 1: over and the energy crisis is over. What are European

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Speaker 1: countries going to do about deciding how to manage their

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Speaker 1: fiscal policy? And Miloney is making some noises and she's

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Speaker 1: sort of saying, yes, well, you know, you should consider

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Speaker 1: each separate country differently depending on their situation. That clearly

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Speaker 1: means she wants some leeway, she wants some fiscal leeway.

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Speaker 1: She wants to be able to spend to reward her electorate.

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Speaker 1: It's still, you know, early days, they're still negotiating on

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Speaker 1: the stability packed, but there will be some trouble there.

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Speaker 1: And on the other hand, you mentioned the recovery fund.

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Speaker 4: European leaders have agreed on a landmark stimulus package that

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Speaker 4: will see the block issue seven hundred and fifty billion

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Speaker 4: euros of joint debt.

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Speaker 1: Italy was basically offered over one hundred and ninety billion

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Speaker 1: euros and that is incredible. That is almost like a

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Speaker 1: Marshall plan. It's it's something Italy's never seen because with

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Speaker 1: the kind of debt it has, it doesn't have that

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Speaker 1: kind of money to spend on bettering infrastructure, schools, green energy.

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Speaker 1: So if they are not able to use recovery funds

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Speaker 1: properly or quickly enough, that's truly tragic. You know, it

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Speaker 1: will look bad to their European partners who have put

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Speaker 1: up the money, and it will mean a huge lost opportunity.

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Speaker 1: But we know at the same time that Italy is

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Speaker 1: very good at, you know, losing opportunities. They've not been

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Speaker 1: able to spend money in the past, so that is

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Speaker 1: a very very big challenge for Maloney and I think

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Speaker 1: markets they're waiting still, but they made judge her on

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Speaker 1: that one.

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Speaker 3: Every few years it rolls around this idea again that

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Speaker 3: countries in Europe start to say, well, we should consider

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Speaker 3: our individual circumstances and all this when we're talking about fiscal.

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Speaker 2: Matters as a whole.

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Speaker 3: But also there sort has seemed to be some emerging

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Speaker 3: tensions with the ECB, the European Central Bank. We're starting

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Speaker 3: to see some nascent stuff around that.

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Speaker 7: The European Central Bank in the last few moments has

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Speaker 7: raised its main policy rate by quarter of one percent.

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Speaker 7: That takes its main deposit rate from three percent two

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Speaker 7: three and a quarter percent.

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Speaker 2: How much of a deal is that really for Italy?

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Speaker 1: It is a very big deal. There's two issues. One

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Speaker 1: is the reality, which is that obviously as rates increase,

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Speaker 1: it's a problem for Italy because it becomes harder to

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Speaker 1: manage its debt it's more expensive. And then there's the

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Speaker 1: part that's internal. She has to show a little bit

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Speaker 1: that she's still Milney, so she's still someone who can

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Speaker 1: stand up to Europe, someone who can complain when it's

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Speaker 1: time and put Italy first, because pac Italian governments were

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Speaker 1: very collaborative. But Miloney's on this platform of Italy first,

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Speaker 1: Italy first, Italy first, and the ECB is one place

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Speaker 1: where she can show that she's banging her fists. Now

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Speaker 1: whether in reality that actually matters not so much, because

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Speaker 1: if inflation remains high, the ECB is not doing it

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Speaker 1: to punish Italy or the other countries like Spain and Greece.

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Speaker 1: The ECB is doing it to keep inflation down.

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Speaker 3: Alessandra, you mentioned this idea of Italy first, and with

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Speaker 3: this Georgia Maloney is sort of getting her fingers a

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Speaker 3: bit into state control companies and this idea of protecting

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Speaker 3: Italian businesses and industries.

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Speaker 1: Top of Prime Minister of Georgia Meloney's Italy First agenda

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Speaker 1: is a creation of national champions in areas from energy

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Speaker 1: to fashion and luxury and a sovereign wealth fund.

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Speaker 3: When you look at key state assets, you've got the

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Speaker 3: lights of the energy giants Ennel and Any and defense

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Speaker 3: company Leonardo. They all recently underwent a bit of a

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Speaker 3: changing of the guard with new CEOs coming in and

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Speaker 3: as a result, Maloney's gotten involved because the government is

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Speaker 3: one of the key shareholders and all those companies. Can

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Speaker 3: you talk a bit about what her intentions are when

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Speaker 3: it comes to the state sector in Italy.

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Speaker 1: She came in when all these posts were up for

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Speaker 1: renewal and it happens about every three years, so she's

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Speaker 1: been quite fortunate. These are very very big state controlled companies,

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Speaker 1: big companies that really matter, and she gets to put

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Speaker 1: her people in and that means that even if and

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Speaker 1: when the government should fall, she will have people that

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Speaker 1: have her worldview, so a more nationalist, a more if

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Speaker 1: we want to call it Italy first worldview in those spots,

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Speaker 1: and that won't change for at least three years. And

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Speaker 1: that really matters, you know, because this is like the

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Speaker 1: elite of the stock exchange first of all, and people

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Speaker 1: who are influencing all kinds of decisions, from energy policy

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Speaker 1: to also how we deal in relations with other companies

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Speaker 1: out there. I mean E and I for a long

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Speaker 1: time was called, you know, the true Foreign Ministry because

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Speaker 1: it's so active all over the world with its oil

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Speaker 1: and gas interests that it's almost more efficient, some say,

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Speaker 1: than the Italian foreign ministry. Her message is typically nationalist.

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Speaker 1: She is not going to just collaborate and play nice.

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Speaker 1: She wants Italian interest protected, and she also wants things

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Speaker 1: like more influence for Italy in its backyard, which is

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Speaker 1: really unusual. Italy has not done that since fascism. For example,

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Speaker 1: she wants more influence in the Mediterranean.

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Speaker 3: There is one area polici area where she has struck

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Speaker 3: a bit of trouble, and that's on China Kiara. Italy

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Speaker 3: was sort of one of the few nations or large

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Speaker 3: nations that signed a proper agreement with China on its

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Speaker 3: Belton Road trade and investment programming. And you can see

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Speaker 3: her so slightly trying to reverse out of that a bit.

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Speaker 3: But she can't reverse all the way out because Italy

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Speaker 3: does still need to maintain trade investment ties with China.

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Speaker 3: How is she juggling all of that and what kind

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Speaker 3: of peril do you see for her in.

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Speaker 4: That all eyes are on Meloni just because she has

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Speaker 4: to make a public announcement by the end of the year.

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Speaker 4: She will have to say publicly either yes or no

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Speaker 4: to the Belton Road saying no could just really irritate

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Speaker 4: Beijing with possible retaliation.

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Speaker 5: The Italian government is reportedly close to pulling out of

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Speaker 5: China's Built and Road initiative. Prime Minister Georgia Maloney says

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Speaker 5: Rome's further involvement in Chi Jing King's global trade network

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Speaker 5: is up the debate.

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Speaker 4: There is a lot of pressure from the US and DEAD,

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Speaker 4: but at the same time she wants to find a

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Speaker 4: way not to really blow it into China's face.

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Speaker 3: After the break, what can we expect from the Italian

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Speaker 3: leader's visit to Washington, DC? Before we take a closer

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Speaker 3: look at Georgia Maloney's relationship with Joe Biden. A head

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Speaker 3: of their meeting at the White House, I wanted to

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Speaker 3: talk about some of the Italian Prime Minister's key relationships

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Speaker 3: with foreign leaders. One that's emerged as being exceptionally fraud

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Speaker 3: it's her relationship with the French President Emanuel Macron. Can

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Speaker 3: you talk a bit about what's behind the tensions between

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Speaker 3: Maloney and Macron.

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Speaker 4: I mean, they generally don't really like each other as

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Speaker 4: kind of distinctively as people. For Macron, Melonie is a

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Speaker 4: sort of nemesis. She is associated to Marine Lapen, even

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Speaker 4: if Alexander was saying, they are really different political figures.

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Speaker 4: So for Macron is really hard to be seen domestically

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Speaker 4: with Malone to be hosting her.

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Speaker 3: In the first official meeting outside of international summits. Emanuel

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Speaker 3: Macart welcome Georgia Maloney.

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Speaker 4: To the and this is contributing to the clash and

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Speaker 4: the competition between the two of them. Meloney is just

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Speaker 4: coming after Dragi and Dragi and Macron were really close.

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Speaker 4: They were friends, they were like on a really good

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Speaker 4: personal relationship for years, even before Dragi became Prime minister.

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Speaker 4: So you know, it was hard for anyone to follow

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Speaker 4: Mari Draghi in lee relations with France.

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Speaker 3: Well, you talked about instinctive relationship, the instinctive dislike that

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Speaker 3: they seem to have for each other. I'm talking about

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Speaker 3: Maloney and Macron. But Alessandra one area where she seems

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Speaker 3: to have an instinctive friendship, a very strong rapport, a

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Speaker 3: connection is with the US President Joe Biden.

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Speaker 1: President Biden met with Italian Prime Minister Georgia Maloney for

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Speaker 1: the first time today.

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Speaker 4: The two leaders spoke during a closed door meeting at

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Speaker 4: the G twenty summit in Bali.

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Speaker 3: We saw that almost sort of affectionate comments with each

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Speaker 3: other at the recent G seven summit where they're both

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Speaker 3: in Hiroshima. We've seen it elsewhere, but there does seem

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Speaker 3: to be a natural rapport with Joe Biden.

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Speaker 2: What's your perception of that.

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Speaker 1: It has a lot to do with Malonney's positioning herself

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Speaker 1: as a really faithful ally of the US, and that's

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Speaker 1: what she wants to convey, and she is sort of

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Speaker 1: taking up what was once the center rights position. You know,

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Speaker 1: historically Italy after World War Two wanted to be the

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Speaker 1: best possible ally for the US. Lots of things have

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Speaker 1: happened since then, and there have been other positions, but

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Speaker 1: I think Maloney really wants to prove herself. So it's

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Speaker 1: her really courting, if we could say, Biden, you know,

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Speaker 1: wanting to show she really is going to be a

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Speaker 1: great ally and hoping as well. It's sort of typical

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Speaker 1: historically of the Italian right to want contracts with the

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Speaker 1: US and go in that direction. Every time we've had

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Speaker 1: a right wing government, the companies have done more business

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Speaker 1: with the United States.

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Speaker 3: Kiara, looking ahead to the meeting between Joe Biden and

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Speaker 3: Georgia Maloney what are some of the things we should

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Speaker 3: be expecting from that.

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Speaker 4: There is a lot of expectation from the Italian side

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Speaker 4: of how important it is to be hosted at the

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Speaker 4: White House. So the key question that we want to

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Speaker 4: see out of that meeting is that will Georgia Meloney

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Speaker 4: be somehow promoted to first tier leader? Will she still

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Speaker 4: remain somehow on the fringes when it comes to the

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Speaker 4: decision making in Europe. We have seen that she has

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Speaker 4: a really good relation with Joe Biden. They've been hugging

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Speaker 4: and smiling and praising each other a lot. But when

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Speaker 4: it comes to the key calls in which for example,

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Speaker 4: Russia's invasion of Ukraine is discussed, military support to Ukraine

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Speaker 4: is discussed, or key financial decisions, well she has been

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Speaker 4: somehow left out, not because of her, but also because

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Speaker 4: Italy is the third biggest European economy but is still

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Speaker 4: kind of a smaller country when it comes to the

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Speaker 4: global stage. So the key question is will this meeting

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Speaker 4: be a promotion and an affirmation for Italy looking ahead?

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Speaker 2: And what would that look like.

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Speaker 3: What should we interpret as science that that's actually happening.

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Speaker 3: What's it tangible that she could come away with.

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Speaker 4: I think a tangible will be some statements of US support,

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Speaker 4: for example on the G seven that Italy will host

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Speaker 4: next year. Or also we will look out for, for example,

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Speaker 4: invitations of Meloney in key calls ahead or just stronger

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Speaker 4: cooperation between the two countries.

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Speaker 2: And is there any room for tension?

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Speaker 4: I really see tension potentially on the discussion on China.

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Speaker 4: The US is really waiting for some signs that Italy

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Speaker 4: will pull out of the Belton Road initiative. So the

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Speaker 4: question is like, will Meloney really make a move this time?

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Speaker 4: A will is she continued to take time? I could

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Speaker 4: see some tension and possibly some statement by Biden that

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Speaker 4: will force her to take a line.

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Speaker 3: Kieren Alessandra, thank you very much for joining me today.

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Speaker 3: Thank you thanks for listening to us here at The

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Speaker 3: Big Take. It's a daily podcast from Bloomberg and iHeartRadio.

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00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,400
Speaker 3: Email us with questions or comments to Big Take at

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Speaker 3: Bloomberg dot net. The supervising producer of The Big Take

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00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,800
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