1 00:00:09,560 --> 00:00:13,840 Speaker 1: Hi. I'm Laura Vanderkamp. I'm a mother of five, an author, journalist, 2 00:00:13,880 --> 00:00:14,440 Speaker 1: and speaker. 3 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:19,120 Speaker 2: And I'm Sarah Hart Hunger, a mother of three, practicing physician, writer, 4 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:22,280 Speaker 2: and course creator. We are two working parents who love 5 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,000 Speaker 2: our careers and our families. 6 00:00:24,720 --> 00:00:27,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to best of both worlds. Here we talk about 7 00:00:27,360 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: how real women manage work, family, and time for fun. 8 00:00:30,880 --> 00:00:34,200 Speaker 1: From figuring out childcare to mapping out long term career goals. 9 00:00:34,440 --> 00:00:39,320 Speaker 1: We want you to get the most out of life. 10 00:00:41,159 --> 00:00:44,599 Speaker 1: Welcome the best of both worlds. This is Laura. This 11 00:00:44,640 --> 00:00:46,920 Speaker 1: episode is airing sort of at the end of winter, 12 00:00:47,080 --> 00:00:49,320 Speaker 1: beginning of spring, maybe not so much beginning of spring. 13 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:52,760 Speaker 1: We'll see what it airs. But we're going to be 14 00:00:52,800 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 1: talking about how to make a name for yourself. So 15 00:00:56,720 --> 00:01:00,440 Speaker 1: the idea of personal branding, being known as an expert 16 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,840 Speaker 1: on something is a useful career skill, probably something many 17 00:01:05,880 --> 00:01:09,600 Speaker 1: of us should be thinking about, but maybe something we 18 00:01:09,840 --> 00:01:12,880 Speaker 1: don't think about quite as much as we should. So, Sarah, 19 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,960 Speaker 1: do you ever google yourself? And how much attention do 20 00:01:17,040 --> 00:01:18,959 Speaker 1: you pay to this to what comes up? 21 00:01:19,440 --> 00:01:23,360 Speaker 2: I do not google myself, really. I do get Google 22 00:01:23,440 --> 00:01:26,920 Speaker 2: alerts so that if my name is published in something 23 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:30,399 Speaker 2: then Generally i'll get like an email from Google. It's like, oh, 24 00:01:30,440 --> 00:01:32,679 Speaker 2: Sarah Hart Hunger blah blah blah. Now sometimes it's like 25 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:36,280 Speaker 2: a fake out. There's some shoe company or something I 26 00:01:36,360 --> 00:01:38,399 Speaker 2: say to you, and I'm like, oh, that's not me, 27 00:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 2: but that's not meazing. I seem to pick up the highlights, 28 00:01:40,600 --> 00:01:44,039 Speaker 2: which prevents me from googling myself, which is probably good. 29 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:47,440 Speaker 2: I once looked up my name on Reddit and then 30 00:01:47,480 --> 00:01:50,200 Speaker 2: I was like and thankfully like didn't find anything bad, 31 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,000 Speaker 2: and was like, I'm never doing that again. 32 00:01:51,800 --> 00:01:55,760 Speaker 1: Like I what, Sarah? What was Sarah so curious? I 33 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 1: haven't looked for myself on Reddit, so I'm very. 34 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,160 Speaker 2: Able for you either. Okay, But then I realized how 35 00:02:00,240 --> 00:02:03,600 Speaker 2: dangerous that was because Reddit is such a snarky place 36 00:02:03,720 --> 00:02:07,720 Speaker 2: and there's nothing constructive that's going to happen if I 37 00:02:07,760 --> 00:02:11,680 Speaker 2: find a thread of people disgruntled with learning about planning. 38 00:02:11,680 --> 00:02:13,919 Speaker 1: But no, all I found was like methods. 39 00:02:13,560 --> 00:02:15,520 Speaker 2: I found like, oh, I was looking for a planner 40 00:02:15,639 --> 00:02:17,600 Speaker 2: podcast and I found Beastly Plans. It was like it 41 00:02:17,639 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 2: was something like that. It was totally fine, but I 42 00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,440 Speaker 2: remember thinking like, this is not a good idea, and 43 00:02:23,480 --> 00:02:25,720 Speaker 2: I actually, I mean this is on the same vein. 44 00:02:26,080 --> 00:02:27,600 Speaker 2: I'm sort of like, once I write my book, I 45 00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,400 Speaker 2: don't think I want to see the reviews. Like I 46 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:32,520 Speaker 2: could imagine asking my editor to give me like a 47 00:02:33,040 --> 00:02:37,919 Speaker 2: version of the feedback in a nice way, but like, yeah, sorry, 48 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:39,119 Speaker 2: this veered into a different time. 49 00:02:41,520 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 1: Well, okay, I have searched for myself many times because 50 00:02:44,480 --> 00:02:47,320 Speaker 1: I'm just curious what order stuff comes up, right, Like 51 00:02:48,120 --> 00:02:51,800 Speaker 1: where are the places that I have written for or 52 00:02:51,840 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: been mentioned that are most prominent, Because you know, if 53 00:02:56,280 --> 00:02:58,680 Speaker 1: I'm searching for a guest, like I will search their 54 00:02:58,760 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: name and see what comes up, and I you know, 55 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm curious, Like that is related to sort of with me, 56 00:03:03,240 --> 00:03:04,440 Speaker 1: like if somebody's searching for me. 57 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:07,320 Speaker 2: But it's not accurate because Google tailors it to like 58 00:03:07,360 --> 00:03:09,840 Speaker 2: the sites that you've been to. So when you Google yourself, 59 00:03:10,880 --> 00:03:12,680 Speaker 2: it knows your search unless you're going to like somebody 60 00:03:12,680 --> 00:03:15,560 Speaker 2: else's anonymous computer, the results you get are already tailored 61 00:03:15,560 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 2: to use. 62 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:18,480 Speaker 1: Your your life search engines. Just to sort of see 63 00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,920 Speaker 1: that would help what is you know there? And I 64 00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 1: mean it's probably worth doing just for anyone, I mean 65 00:03:28,160 --> 00:03:30,959 Speaker 1: for most people. If your name isn't particularly distinctive, it's 66 00:03:31,120 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: gonna be hard to see. But if it is something 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:39,320 Speaker 1: like your one mention in a local newspaper where you 68 00:03:39,320 --> 00:03:43,560 Speaker 1: were complaining about this dog path that was put through 69 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: your neighborhood, or you know, like you probably don't want 70 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:47,560 Speaker 1: that to be the first thing to come up, and 71 00:03:47,560 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: so it might be worth working a little bit on 72 00:03:50,040 --> 00:03:52,160 Speaker 1: like your LinkedIn profile to make sure that comes up 73 00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:58,640 Speaker 1: first or something. Just as a general idea, But what 74 00:03:58,760 --> 00:04:00,960 Speaker 1: making a name for yourself. It's not so much about 75 00:04:01,520 --> 00:04:04,640 Speaker 1: being a public facing thought leader, though of course it 76 00:04:04,680 --> 00:04:06,840 Speaker 1: can be, and would love for any of our listeners 77 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:10,320 Speaker 1: who want to do that to become world famous experts 78 00:04:10,400 --> 00:04:13,280 Speaker 1: on whatever. But it's also about like just being known 79 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 1: at your organization as the person you want to find. 80 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:19,880 Speaker 1: If you want to know X, right, like everyone says, oh, 81 00:04:19,920 --> 00:04:23,480 Speaker 1: well for sitting around the staff meeting on Thursday morning, 82 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:26,400 Speaker 1: but you want to know X, everyone's looking at you, right, 83 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,800 Speaker 1: Or if a certain situation comes up, everyone's looking at 84 00:04:28,880 --> 00:04:30,560 Speaker 1: you because they know that you're going to have the 85 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:33,960 Speaker 1: great answer for it. And the reason for this, of 86 00:04:34,000 --> 00:04:41,000 Speaker 1: course is when people want you, you cannot easily be replaced. 87 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:43,440 Speaker 1: It is as simple as that. I mean in this 88 00:04:43,480 --> 00:04:46,359 Speaker 1: world where AI can probably produce a lot of what 89 00:04:46,440 --> 00:04:51,039 Speaker 1: any of us do. I mean, if you want Laura 90 00:04:51,160 --> 00:04:53,479 Speaker 1: Vanderkam's writings on something, I mean, it could be written 91 00:04:53,480 --> 00:04:55,600 Speaker 1: by a Bye, but you still want Laura's. 92 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:55,719 Speaker 2: Name on it. 93 00:04:55,760 --> 00:04:59,880 Speaker 1: You know what I'm saying. It's it's the way to 94 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:03,400 Speaker 1: to make sure what you're doing is distinctive to you. Yeah. 95 00:05:03,480 --> 00:05:04,279 Speaker 2: No, that makes sense. 96 00:05:05,160 --> 00:05:07,800 Speaker 1: So one way to start thinking about this is to 97 00:05:07,800 --> 00:05:10,240 Speaker 1: figure out what you want to be an expert in 98 00:05:11,560 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: or what you should You already are an expert in 99 00:05:13,560 --> 00:05:16,599 Speaker 1: and a lot of people when I started working with 100 00:05:17,120 --> 00:05:19,560 Speaker 1: the op ed Project a few years ago, and I'm 101 00:05:19,600 --> 00:05:22,400 Speaker 1: a mentor editor for them, so I get people's op 102 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,800 Speaker 1: eds and help them shape them into publishable sorts of things. 103 00:05:27,400 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: What I learned from them is a lot of people 104 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,400 Speaker 1: find it really hard to call themselves an expert in something. 105 00:05:32,440 --> 00:05:34,680 Speaker 1: And now, if you want to write an op ed 106 00:05:34,720 --> 00:05:36,320 Speaker 1: on something, it really helps to be an expert on 107 00:05:36,360 --> 00:05:39,479 Speaker 1: something that you can tell the editor at that newspaper 108 00:05:39,560 --> 00:05:41,919 Speaker 1: or that magazine, like I am an expert in X 109 00:05:41,960 --> 00:05:44,080 Speaker 1: and here's a piece I wrote about it, And a 110 00:05:44,120 --> 00:05:46,520 Speaker 1: lot of people have trouble with that word an expert 111 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:49,679 Speaker 1: because it feels like it's bragging. But again, it doesn't 112 00:05:49,720 --> 00:05:51,760 Speaker 1: need to be the world's biggest expert. It's just you know, 113 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:55,360 Speaker 1: within your spheres, like within your professional spheres, within your 114 00:05:55,400 --> 00:05:57,479 Speaker 1: personal spheres, what are you known for and why do 115 00:05:57,560 --> 00:06:01,520 Speaker 1: people seek you out? So Sarah led to planning as 116 00:06:01,560 --> 00:06:02,600 Speaker 1: your expertise. 117 00:06:03,279 --> 00:06:05,520 Speaker 2: Well, first, I just want to comment, as you're speaking, 118 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:08,240 Speaker 2: I'm like, there has got to be a big gender 119 00:06:08,279 --> 00:06:09,080 Speaker 2: divide here. 120 00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:12,479 Speaker 1: I just had to say expert on this because I 121 00:06:12,520 --> 00:06:13,799 Speaker 1: read an article on it once. 122 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:18,880 Speaker 2: Yeah, and this is not global. I'm sure there are 123 00:06:19,080 --> 00:06:22,880 Speaker 2: men with imposter syndrome and women who feel they are 124 00:06:22,920 --> 00:06:27,479 Speaker 2: expert in everything. But very interesting what you were just 125 00:06:27,520 --> 00:06:31,040 Speaker 2: saying and what I was thinking about. So the planning thing, 126 00:06:32,120 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 2: I just love planners and started posting a lot, and 127 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:36,800 Speaker 2: I noticed that was something that people responded to and 128 00:06:36,839 --> 00:06:40,240 Speaker 2: also something that I found myself naturally obsessed with to 129 00:06:40,279 --> 00:06:43,960 Speaker 2: the point where I think I became an expert. But 130 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,080 Speaker 2: I actually don't even think I became an expert until I, like, 131 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,359 Speaker 2: I don't know start. It's like circular, right, because the 132 00:06:50,400 --> 00:06:52,880 Speaker 2: more you delve into something, anymore you speak about something, 133 00:06:52,880 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 2: the more you learn about it, or the more you 134 00:06:54,480 --> 00:06:57,200 Speaker 2: learn what other people need about it, et cetera. So 135 00:06:57,240 --> 00:06:59,120 Speaker 2: I actually think the expert like I probably would have 136 00:06:59,160 --> 00:07:01,479 Speaker 2: argued with you about the planning expert like three years ago, 137 00:07:01,520 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: but now I feel like I could wear that pretty well. 138 00:07:04,520 --> 00:07:07,119 Speaker 2: I think it's also just a passion, like a legit 139 00:07:07,160 --> 00:07:09,920 Speaker 2: passion for me. I really believe that effective planning can 140 00:07:09,920 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 2: help us enjoy life more so why not spend time 141 00:07:12,360 --> 00:07:13,720 Speaker 2: doing it and learn to do it well? And I 142 00:07:13,720 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: think when you have a strong conviction like that, it's 143 00:07:16,640 --> 00:07:19,080 Speaker 2: easier to position yourself as an expert because you're like 144 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:22,040 Speaker 2: I am helping people learn this that I have learned 145 00:07:22,080 --> 00:07:25,080 Speaker 2: over time, and then I also just feel like expert. 146 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:26,680 Speaker 2: I wanted to make a note that being an expert 147 00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,800 Speaker 2: like very much depends on context because on a community level, 148 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:32,840 Speaker 2: like when I'm at a birthday party or like out 149 00:07:32,880 --> 00:07:36,000 Speaker 2: in the world, no one asked me about planners, but 150 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:40,320 Speaker 2: everybody asked me about their kids endocretin issues. 151 00:07:40,520 --> 00:07:45,000 Speaker 1: So you are a dual expert, Sarah. You actually have 152 00:07:46,080 --> 00:07:49,680 Speaker 1: real expertise in two very distinct areas. 153 00:07:49,840 --> 00:07:52,160 Speaker 2: Very distinct areas. Although I don't have like one thing 154 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,440 Speaker 2: I focus on. I like to think I'm an expert 155 00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:57,920 Speaker 2: in like explaining things well in the clinic and have 156 00:07:57,960 --> 00:08:00,440 Speaker 2: an efficiently running office and make kids feel good during 157 00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:02,680 Speaker 2: the appointment. So if anything, I'm just like an jack 158 00:08:02,720 --> 00:08:06,080 Speaker 2: of all trees pediatric intergrenologists. But I was just gonna 159 00:08:06,080 --> 00:08:08,160 Speaker 2: say that I used to really resent my expertise in 160 00:08:08,160 --> 00:08:10,200 Speaker 2: this realm and like get annoyed when people would ask 161 00:08:10,280 --> 00:08:12,960 Speaker 2: me questions like oh, I'm not working, And somehow over 162 00:08:12,960 --> 00:08:14,800 Speaker 2: the years I have very much softened to that, and 163 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:16,800 Speaker 2: I'm like, it's fine, Like, let me tell you what 164 00:08:16,880 --> 00:08:18,880 Speaker 2: I know, let me try to help you, let me 165 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,280 Speaker 2: figure out if you're someone that one of my colleagues 166 00:08:21,280 --> 00:08:23,320 Speaker 2: should see. I try not to like see people personally 167 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:25,360 Speaker 2: if I know them well enough, because then it's just weird. 168 00:08:26,160 --> 00:08:29,840 Speaker 2: But yeah, I've gotten to almost enjoy that expert status, 169 00:08:29,840 --> 00:08:31,040 Speaker 2: and that took a really long time. 170 00:08:31,320 --> 00:08:33,600 Speaker 1: Yeah, oh you should own it. I think it is 171 00:08:34,040 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 1: great when people can feel like they are confident in 172 00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,960 Speaker 1: their knowledge of something. And obviously some things that make that. 173 00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:43,679 Speaker 1: You know, if you have a medical degree in a 174 00:08:43,679 --> 00:08:46,600 Speaker 1: particular field, that does tend to show that you are 175 00:08:46,640 --> 00:08:49,600 Speaker 1: an expert in it. Other things, it's a little bit 176 00:08:49,640 --> 00:08:52,959 Speaker 1: less straightforward. But we can figure that out. So we're 177 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,559 Speaker 1: going to take a quick ad break and we'll come 178 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:56,480 Speaker 1: back and talk a little bit more about expertise. 179 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:13,560 Speaker 2: Okay, we're back. So, Laura, you are a time management expert. 180 00:09:13,840 --> 00:09:15,679 Speaker 2: Can you talk a little bit about that path, how 181 00:09:15,679 --> 00:09:17,960 Speaker 2: it came to be and like maybe when you decided 182 00:09:18,120 --> 00:09:19,800 Speaker 2: that you had this expertise? 183 00:09:20,360 --> 00:09:22,839 Speaker 1: Yeah, so's nobody really grows up saying I want to 184 00:09:22,880 --> 00:09:25,559 Speaker 1: be a time management expert or something like that. So 185 00:09:25,960 --> 00:09:28,680 Speaker 1: it does, in fact need to develop over time, which 186 00:09:28,720 --> 00:09:30,480 Speaker 1: means there was a point where that was not what 187 00:09:30,559 --> 00:09:32,880 Speaker 1: I was doing. And I was trying to figure out 188 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:36,400 Speaker 1: what is my area that I'm going to write about. 189 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:40,760 Speaker 1: And I distinctly remember kind of in my late twenties 190 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:44,200 Speaker 1: casting about in a bunch of different areas, Like I 191 00:09:44,240 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: wrote a bunch of different things. I was interested in 192 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:51,360 Speaker 1: the intersection of work in life, and I wrote a 193 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:54,320 Speaker 1: bunch of different articles related to that. And I had 194 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:57,880 Speaker 1: written a bunch of profiles of different people, and I 195 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:00,400 Speaker 1: kind of noticed that I was always interested did in 196 00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:04,800 Speaker 1: their schedules and how they were fitting in the various 197 00:10:04,960 --> 00:10:09,080 Speaker 1: things that they were doing. But it was not straightforward 198 00:10:09,160 --> 00:10:12,280 Speaker 1: at all. I was hoping to write a book. I 199 00:10:12,320 --> 00:10:15,040 Speaker 1: had put some stuff out in the world. I got 200 00:10:15,080 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: a meeting with an editor over at Portfolio, which is 201 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:22,840 Speaker 1: part of Penguin Random House now, and they wanted to 202 00:10:22,880 --> 00:10:24,480 Speaker 1: talk with me about book ideas, and we kind of 203 00:10:24,520 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 1: worked through some of the stuff I had and came 204 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:30,000 Speaker 1: up with one hundred and sixty eight hours Angle. And 205 00:10:30,040 --> 00:10:31,640 Speaker 1: so I wrote that book. And when you write a 206 00:10:31,640 --> 00:10:34,960 Speaker 1: book about something, you do have at least a way 207 00:10:35,000 --> 00:10:37,120 Speaker 1: of saying you're an expert. Like, look, I wrote this 208 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:41,480 Speaker 1: commercially published book that you are seeing on the Today 209 00:10:41,520 --> 00:10:44,960 Speaker 1: Show that shows that perhaps I am a time management expert. 210 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:48,480 Speaker 1: But that still wasn't one hundred percent clear. I mean, 211 00:10:48,559 --> 00:10:50,680 Speaker 1: longtime listeners know that. I then wrote a book on 212 00:10:50,760 --> 00:10:53,440 Speaker 1: personal finance called All the Money in the World, because 213 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 1: you know, it was casting around like what was going 214 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:56,920 Speaker 1: to be the next thing? And then I wrote a 215 00:10:56,960 --> 00:10:59,440 Speaker 1: third thing called What the Most Successful People Do Before 216 00:10:59,480 --> 00:11:01,640 Speaker 1: Breakfast did pretty well, and so then that sort of 217 00:11:01,679 --> 00:11:05,480 Speaker 1: cemented it as the time management area, like that that 218 00:11:05,760 --> 00:11:08,000 Speaker 1: was what I was going to be talking about. But 219 00:11:08,000 --> 00:11:10,160 Speaker 1: I am interested in it, like you have to be 220 00:11:11,080 --> 00:11:15,160 Speaker 1: interested in it. You have to want to keep learning 221 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 1: more and I think it helps to have at least 222 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:19,720 Speaker 1: somewhat of a broad enough area that you can take 223 00:11:19,760 --> 00:11:23,480 Speaker 1: different angles into it, Like you could write about anyone 224 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,560 Speaker 1: in the world and write about their schedule. Yeah, So 225 00:11:26,720 --> 00:11:28,960 Speaker 1: I think there's something to be said for that. 226 00:11:28,960 --> 00:11:32,320 Speaker 2: That's why there's more than one book in your collections. 227 00:11:31,640 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 1: So many many Laura Vandercamp books that I keep trying 228 00:11:35,080 --> 00:11:37,160 Speaker 1: to come up with with different things. And I think 229 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:39,760 Speaker 1: you have to be passionate about it, because the thing is, 230 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,959 Speaker 1: you're going to have to keep cameering away at building 231 00:11:43,000 --> 00:11:45,280 Speaker 1: this expertise for a long time, and if it's kind 232 00:11:45,320 --> 00:11:50,160 Speaker 1: of a thing that you don't necessarily always want to do, like, oh, 233 00:11:50,200 --> 00:11:52,480 Speaker 1: I know I need to send this newsletter each week 234 00:11:52,520 --> 00:11:54,760 Speaker 1: to show that I'm an expert, but I don't want to, Like, 235 00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:56,760 Speaker 1: it's going to be hard to keep. 236 00:11:56,559 --> 00:11:58,679 Speaker 2: That up totally. And I think people can kind of 237 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: sense the and the sincerity, Like, Okay, is this person 238 00:12:03,120 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 2: like writing about the new pointers because they felt they 239 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:08,439 Speaker 2: like had to, or because they're like really excited because 240 00:12:08,440 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 2: they saw the spring launch and they can compare it 241 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:12,760 Speaker 2: to the other launches and they're excited to share it 242 00:12:12,800 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 2: with you. So like I think it comes off somehow. 243 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:18,320 Speaker 1: Yeah, So if you're trying to figure this out, I mean, 244 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:22,520 Speaker 1: look at the things that people always come to you for, right, 245 00:12:22,559 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 1: If there's something that people are always asking you about, 246 00:12:25,280 --> 00:12:27,640 Speaker 1: that's a good hint at what they see as you 247 00:12:27,679 --> 00:12:31,920 Speaker 1: as being good at within your group, your community, the 248 00:12:32,000 --> 00:12:34,559 Speaker 1: things you always find yourself pursuing. Like, if you have 249 00:12:34,679 --> 00:12:37,040 Speaker 1: free time, what are the things you sort of look into, 250 00:12:37,800 --> 00:12:40,000 Speaker 1: what it's the kind of work you like to do? First, 251 00:12:40,440 --> 00:12:44,240 Speaker 1: ask other people what they think they see you as 252 00:12:44,360 --> 00:12:47,520 Speaker 1: uniquely good at, because sometimes it's harder for us to 253 00:12:47,640 --> 00:12:52,040 Speaker 1: see it for ourselves and to sort of keep casting about, 254 00:12:52,040 --> 00:12:54,559 Speaker 1: Like what makes you feel energized when you think about 255 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,760 Speaker 1: spending more time learning about it and talking about it 256 00:12:57,840 --> 00:13:00,840 Speaker 1: and helping people with this, that's a good sign. 257 00:13:01,600 --> 00:13:03,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, I like that. What do people always come up 258 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:05,199 Speaker 2: and ask you about? And it may not be what 259 00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:08,200 Speaker 2: you think you know, Like, maybe you're a lawyer, but 260 00:13:08,240 --> 00:13:11,600 Speaker 2: everyone's asking you about like XYZ template, or maybe it's 261 00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:15,160 Speaker 2: just some very specific niche within your expertise. That's a 262 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,360 Speaker 2: sign like that's valuable, so. 263 00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,360 Speaker 1: Yeah, or maybe it's something completely outside of that. I mean, 264 00:13:20,360 --> 00:13:22,199 Speaker 1: you're a lawyer and people are asking you about your 265 00:13:22,200 --> 00:13:25,680 Speaker 1: travel hacks. So, I mean, who knows. I'm not saying 266 00:13:25,679 --> 00:13:27,520 Speaker 1: you're going to switch careers, but it's something that you 267 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,160 Speaker 1: might think about for a future pivot or for a 268 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:33,320 Speaker 1: side gig, or something you might want to do when 269 00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,520 Speaker 1: you maybe scale down the main career at some point 270 00:13:36,600 --> 00:13:39,880 Speaker 1: and scale up other things. So things to think about now. 271 00:13:39,880 --> 00:13:42,800 Speaker 1: Of course, just because you call yourself an expert in 272 00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:46,320 Speaker 1: something doesn't mean the world's gonna believe it. So how 273 00:13:46,360 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 1: do we provide evidence of our expertise for the world. So, 274 00:13:52,320 --> 00:13:55,560 Speaker 1: people who've read Dori Clark's book, she has an excellent 275 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,240 Speaker 1: book called stand Out, which is about how to find 276 00:13:58,280 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: your breakthrough idea and to following around it. So that's 277 00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:03,439 Speaker 1: basically how to become a thought leader. Right, you need 278 00:14:03,440 --> 00:14:05,400 Speaker 1: to thought and then you need to be a leader 279 00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:07,600 Speaker 1: about that thought that people are willing to follow you. 280 00:14:08,080 --> 00:14:10,959 Speaker 1: And she talks about finding social proof, like how can 281 00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,720 Speaker 1: you show social proof that you are an expert in 282 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:19,000 Speaker 1: this topic? So, Sarah, when you recently sold a book 283 00:14:19,520 --> 00:14:23,080 Speaker 1: on your planning methods, what do you think was helpful 284 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:26,240 Speaker 1: with showing that you were an expert on this topic? 285 00:14:26,400 --> 00:14:29,960 Speaker 2: Yeah, so definitely my body of work my podcast. I 286 00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:32,520 Speaker 2: think that's what led an editor to be interested in 287 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:34,880 Speaker 2: my work to begin with, Like, oh, this person knows 288 00:14:34,920 --> 00:14:37,080 Speaker 2: what she's talking about. And also there's two hundred and 289 00:14:37,160 --> 00:14:39,480 Speaker 2: fifty episodes, you know, and she didn't start it yesterday. 290 00:14:39,480 --> 00:14:43,360 Speaker 2: There's like a breath here and an experience. The fact 291 00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:46,800 Speaker 2: that other people expressed interest really really helps, and if 292 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,840 Speaker 2: that can be done in some sort of a public way, 293 00:14:48,880 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: that can help. Now that was not done purposefully, but 294 00:14:51,680 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 2: I had like one blog post where I wrote about 295 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:57,360 Speaker 2: how many productivity authors were men and how I would 296 00:14:57,400 --> 00:14:59,320 Speaker 2: love to be part of this, and I think I 297 00:14:59,320 --> 00:15:01,320 Speaker 2: got like a hundred people that were like, yes, do it, 298 00:15:01,360 --> 00:15:03,760 Speaker 2: I want this and being able to share that. I 299 00:15:03,760 --> 00:15:06,080 Speaker 2: don't know if that was helpful, but I certainly included 300 00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:09,640 Speaker 2: it in my pitch. I definitely think also this is 301 00:15:09,680 --> 00:15:12,720 Speaker 2: a little different, but like having some kind of like 302 00:15:12,840 --> 00:15:16,840 Speaker 2: niche or perspective that's a little bit something just sets 303 00:15:16,880 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 2: you out in the market, like if there are a 304 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,080 Speaker 2: million people talking about the same thing, like being able 305 00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,680 Speaker 2: to say, like, what makes you different? For me, some 306 00:15:23,760 --> 00:15:26,680 Speaker 2: of that was like having a partly having a non 307 00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,520 Speaker 2: flexible traditional job and kind of coming at it from 308 00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:32,440 Speaker 2: that perspective, plus the female perspective I think was helpful, 309 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:37,320 Speaker 2: and then finally just the cred of having successfully built 310 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,760 Speaker 2: a podcast audience, a newsletter audience, a consistent blog audience 311 00:15:40,880 --> 00:15:43,840 Speaker 2: over many, many years. Like they can tell like there 312 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 2: are people who are interested, and also I'm not the 313 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:47,760 Speaker 2: kind of person who's going to be like, oh, I'll 314 00:15:47,760 --> 00:15:49,240 Speaker 2: promote the book and then like disappear. 315 00:15:50,360 --> 00:15:52,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, if you've done two hundred and fifty podcasts, it 316 00:15:52,840 --> 00:15:54,800 Speaker 1: seems like you could probably do one hundred more, right, 317 00:15:54,880 --> 00:15:58,240 Speaker 1: you know, it's like that's not a huge leap of 318 00:15:58,280 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: faith to assume that you would caninue to promote the topic. Yeah, 319 00:16:02,840 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: various things can count as social proof. I mean some 320 00:16:06,080 --> 00:16:08,920 Speaker 1: of the more straightforward obvious ones, like a degree in 321 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,840 Speaker 1: something or a license in something, so you know, if 322 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:15,480 Speaker 1: you want to be sharing medical stuff as an expertise, 323 00:16:15,520 --> 00:16:18,680 Speaker 1: having some sort of medical credential is generally helpful. Whether 324 00:16:18,720 --> 00:16:23,560 Speaker 1: you are a nurse or a doctor or pharmacist or 325 00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:25,960 Speaker 1: something in that field that is going to show that 326 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:28,560 Speaker 1: you have medical credentials there, or if it is a 327 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,240 Speaker 1: field where there is a licensure process, Like I know, 328 00:16:32,320 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: I would take advice on various psychological things more seriously 329 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 1: from someone who is a licensed therapist. Right, that's just 330 00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:42,720 Speaker 1: something that shows proof. Now, of course, there's many things 331 00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,560 Speaker 1: in life that have nothing to do with degrees. I 332 00:16:45,600 --> 00:16:48,720 Speaker 1: do not have a degree in time management. I don't 333 00:16:48,720 --> 00:16:51,400 Speaker 1: even know if there is such a thing. I've sometimes 334 00:16:51,440 --> 00:16:52,200 Speaker 1: been asked about that. 335 00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,960 Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, no, maybe you can start time management university. 336 00:16:56,680 --> 00:17:02,440 Speaker 1: Time management university, the private, privately independently run like for 337 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,439 Speaker 1: profit universe. Sounds like such a snake oil sort of 338 00:17:05,480 --> 00:17:09,520 Speaker 1: thing tm TM you time management University. Yeah, that will 339 00:17:09,520 --> 00:17:14,920 Speaker 1: not be happening. But that said, you can also do 340 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,320 Speaker 1: different things. So any sort of intellectual property you have 341 00:17:18,400 --> 00:17:22,200 Speaker 1: created can show evidence that you are an expert in something. 342 00:17:22,240 --> 00:17:24,439 Speaker 1: So obviously, writing a book about a topic is a 343 00:17:24,440 --> 00:17:26,080 Speaker 1: way to show that you are an expert in it. 344 00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:28,679 Speaker 1: But a book may kind of be a high first 345 00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:31,200 Speaker 1: barrier to do something, So why don't you start with 346 00:17:31,520 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: something else, Like you could write a handful of white 347 00:17:35,240 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: papers on a topic that's you're an expert in in 348 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:41,800 Speaker 1: your particular profession and see if you can publish those summer, 349 00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,560 Speaker 1: whether that's internally for your own organization, if there's some 350 00:17:45,600 --> 00:17:48,440 Speaker 1: sort of internal website for your company that you could 351 00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:51,760 Speaker 1: put those up and share around, or maybe more broadly, 352 00:17:51,840 --> 00:17:55,359 Speaker 1: if there's an industry publication. You can also start your 353 00:17:55,400 --> 00:18:00,119 Speaker 1: own things too, like a blog related to your or 354 00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:03,639 Speaker 1: topic of expertise. If it's something that's more public facing, 355 00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:06,080 Speaker 1: that's probably something you want to do, or start a newsletter. 356 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:09,240 Speaker 1: These things are far easier to do now than they 357 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:13,760 Speaker 1: were in the past. Twenty five thirty years ago. If 358 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:15,800 Speaker 1: you wanted to be an expert and be known for 359 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,320 Speaker 1: your writing on a topic, you kind of had to 360 00:18:17,359 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: go through existing publications, like you had to get an 361 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,439 Speaker 1: article about you writing about this topic, or you being 362 00:18:24,480 --> 00:18:27,080 Speaker 1: interviewed as an expert on a topic in say Time 363 00:18:27,119 --> 00:18:30,119 Speaker 1: magazine or something like that. And now you can just 364 00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:33,200 Speaker 1: put out your newsletter to the world and if people 365 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:38,040 Speaker 1: find it interesting, you can become an expert just because 366 00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:40,040 Speaker 1: people are reading you and you didn't have to go 367 00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:43,760 Speaker 1: through any sort of gatekeeper. And obviously there's downsides. 368 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:44,800 Speaker 2: Which can be a good thing and a bad thing. 369 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:47,840 Speaker 2: I mean, how many books are like, oh it all 370 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,959 Speaker 2: started when my instapost went viral, and like they just 371 00:18:51,080 --> 00:18:53,560 Speaker 2: hit a nerve and now they're an expert. It's kind 372 00:18:53,560 --> 00:18:56,880 Speaker 2: of interesting to see that sometimes, but hey, yeah. 373 00:18:56,640 --> 00:18:59,080 Speaker 1: But it could work happens, yeah, I mean, and sometimes 374 00:18:59,119 --> 00:19:02,080 Speaker 1: gatekeepers are good because you know, people put newsletters on 375 00:19:02,280 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 1: stupid things out there and like, yeah, that's not really expertise, 376 00:19:06,000 --> 00:19:08,359 Speaker 1: that's just something you made up. But when you can 377 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,000 Speaker 1: build up a good following, it's usually because there's at 378 00:19:11,080 --> 00:19:15,399 Speaker 1: least something there. So that's something you might want to 379 00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:20,560 Speaker 1: consider doing as well. And starting that now, other organizations 380 00:19:20,680 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 1: and like existing places can give you social proof. We've 381 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:26,280 Speaker 1: certainly seen this with some of our guests, like somebody 382 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: being like I'm the well with Laura may Martin, like 383 00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,679 Speaker 1: I'm the time management expert for Google. It's like, okay, well, 384 00:19:30,760 --> 00:19:34,480 Speaker 1: Google's a big organization, so therefore you have the social 385 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:39,639 Speaker 1: proof of a big organization saying you were worth paying 386 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,879 Speaker 1: for this. So if you've spoken places, worked places that 387 00:19:42,920 --> 00:19:47,080 Speaker 1: can be helpful, you can collect testimonials. I would suggest 388 00:19:47,520 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: people start doing this if there are people you've worked 389 00:19:49,640 --> 00:19:52,120 Speaker 1: with who just are willing to do this to give 390 00:19:52,160 --> 00:19:54,439 Speaker 1: a short few sentences about why you are so awesome 391 00:19:54,480 --> 00:19:57,600 Speaker 1: to work with or something you've done that was so amazing. 392 00:19:57,640 --> 00:19:59,200 Speaker 1: Those can be helpful for the future too. 393 00:19:59,520 --> 00:20:02,880 Speaker 2: Totally and I think people don't do it enough. Honestly, 394 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 2: I don't think i'd ever say note of writing a 395 00:20:04,880 --> 00:20:08,080 Speaker 2: testimonial for something that I had a positive experience about 396 00:20:08,119 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 2: and then collecting them can be incredibly valuable. So I say, 397 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,240 Speaker 2: reach out and do that more. And I'm talking partly 398 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:14,840 Speaker 2: to myself. 399 00:20:15,119 --> 00:20:19,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, well, and also collecting numbers. I mean, numbers can 400 00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:21,400 Speaker 1: be abused, but they at least appear to be objective. 401 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,760 Speaker 1: So anything time you can quantify something you've done, that's 402 00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:27,639 Speaker 1: very easy thing for someone to quote to say that 403 00:20:27,680 --> 00:20:29,879 Speaker 1: you're an expert, Like so, Sarah, you've seen this, So 404 00:20:29,920 --> 00:20:32,120 Speaker 1: I mean with various things. 405 00:20:32,000 --> 00:20:33,920 Speaker 2: Oh definitely. I mean I had to include that in 406 00:20:33,960 --> 00:20:36,080 Speaker 2: my book proposal too, like number of people that have 407 00:20:36,119 --> 00:20:38,280 Speaker 2: gone through my courses, number of people on my newsletter, 408 00:20:38,359 --> 00:20:40,960 Speaker 2: all that kind of stuff. In the medical world, speaking 409 00:20:41,000 --> 00:20:44,080 Speaker 2: of expertise, surgeons track how many cases they do. And 410 00:20:44,119 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 2: I want to give you permission, especially if you were 411 00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,040 Speaker 2: a family member is having surgery and it's something like 412 00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:52,359 Speaker 2: a little unusual, like not like an epidectomy, but something 413 00:20:52,440 --> 00:20:57,879 Speaker 2: like more specific, you can feel free to ask your 414 00:20:58,000 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 2: surgeon how many of these have you done? Because most 415 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:01,720 Speaker 2: of them will be proud to give you a good 416 00:21:01,760 --> 00:21:03,320 Speaker 2: number that will make you feel better. And if they're 417 00:21:03,400 --> 00:21:07,159 Speaker 2: like two, then you can maybe find out if okay, 418 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:09,280 Speaker 2: well someone going to be assisting you or like, think 419 00:21:09,320 --> 00:21:10,800 Speaker 2: about whether that's what you want. 420 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,520 Speaker 1: Yeah, you may not want to be the first, if 421 00:21:13,560 --> 00:21:16,160 Speaker 1: at all possible, and given that, you know, in humanity 422 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:18,480 Speaker 1: generally people aren't the first. I mean we all have 423 00:21:18,960 --> 00:21:23,040 Speaker 1: some similarities. Finding somebody who's done something a few more 424 00:21:23,040 --> 00:21:26,560 Speaker 1: times might be worth seeking out. So yeah, you can 425 00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:30,719 Speaker 1: try to put numbers one like have you saved an 426 00:21:30,840 --> 00:21:33,520 Speaker 1: organization money by doing X? That tends to be a 427 00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:37,959 Speaker 1: number of people can do? Or how many something your 428 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:43,880 Speaker 1: direct reports have done? Moving any sort of metric. Anything 429 00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:45,479 Speaker 1: you can come up with is going to be helpful. 430 00:21:45,680 --> 00:21:47,200 Speaker 1: All Right, we're going to take one more quick ad 431 00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,040 Speaker 1: break and then we'll be back with more on making 432 00:21:49,080 --> 00:22:04,040 Speaker 1: a name for yourself. Well, we are back talking about 433 00:22:04,119 --> 00:22:06,400 Speaker 1: how to make a name for yourself being known as 434 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:11,000 Speaker 1: an expert on some topic, maybe not the world's foremost 435 00:22:11,080 --> 00:22:14,880 Speaker 1: expert on something, but even just within your organization, being 436 00:22:14,920 --> 00:22:17,880 Speaker 1: the thing that people always seek you out, that there's 437 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,240 Speaker 1: a reason people come to you for something, and having 438 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:24,160 Speaker 1: that thing can be very valuable from a career perspective, 439 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:26,600 Speaker 1: because it's just so much harder to replace someone who 440 00:22:26,720 --> 00:22:30,520 Speaker 1: everyone is seeking out for a particular valuable bit of knowledge. 441 00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:34,439 Speaker 1: As you're building up your expertise in something, it really 442 00:22:34,480 --> 00:22:38,439 Speaker 1: does help to stick with it for at least a 443 00:22:38,440 --> 00:22:41,520 Speaker 1: little while. We see and joke all the time of 444 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 1: people who have started a podcast and then they do 445 00:22:44,440 --> 00:22:46,920 Speaker 1: like two episodes and I guess they run out of ideas, 446 00:22:47,520 --> 00:22:49,560 Speaker 1: So I guess maybe that wasn't something that they really 447 00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:53,280 Speaker 1: wanted to pursue long term. But when you can, then 448 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:56,840 Speaker 1: you have time become the secret ingredient that sort of 449 00:22:56,880 --> 00:22:58,760 Speaker 1: builds up the sense like, oh, yeah, I've been doing 450 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,040 Speaker 1: this for three years, That in and of itself provides 451 00:23:02,200 --> 00:23:04,919 Speaker 1: evidence of expertise that being a fly by night kind 452 00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:08,600 Speaker 1: of person doesn't. So, Sarah, you've stuck with blogging for 453 00:23:08,720 --> 00:23:13,359 Speaker 1: twenty years, I mean podcasting for many What has made 454 00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:15,679 Speaker 1: you stick with it in these cases? 455 00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,479 Speaker 2: What has made me enable myself to use time as 456 00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:21,200 Speaker 2: a secret ingredient? By the way, whenever I think about 457 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,520 Speaker 2: the number of years, all I can think about, and 458 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:25,560 Speaker 2: I know we'd well on the negative as humans, is like, 459 00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,440 Speaker 2: why did I start my newsletter in like twenty twenty 460 00:23:28,480 --> 00:23:29,440 Speaker 2: three or something. 461 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, as opposed to like twenty twelve. Yes, okay, two 462 00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:33,919 Speaker 1: thousand and five I would have. 463 00:23:34,160 --> 00:23:36,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, I feel like cashed out by now. I don't 464 00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,280 Speaker 2: even know. Well, I don't know, maybe not, but like 465 00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,600 Speaker 2: crazy anyway, So what made me stick with it? 466 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:40,960 Speaker 1: I don't know. 467 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,199 Speaker 2: It's super super fun, which is why you want to 468 00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: And I enjoy writing, I enjoy creating. I found it 469 00:23:48,280 --> 00:23:49,879 Speaker 2: to be a strength. I found it to be something 470 00:23:49,920 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 2: that I'm efficient with doing, which makes it doable. And 471 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,120 Speaker 2: I love kind of like the social stuff that's come 472 00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 2: out of it, and just the act of sharing and 473 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,520 Speaker 2: the act of expressing myself in that way. And I 474 00:24:00,520 --> 00:24:04,760 Speaker 2: think that's important to say, because if you don't find 475 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,200 Speaker 2: doing it at least to be like rewarding and generally 476 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:15,080 Speaker 2: I don't know, like inherently satisfying, then it's as hard 477 00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:16,560 Speaker 2: because I don't want to be like, oh, work has 478 00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,800 Speaker 2: to be your passion, you know. But at the same time, 479 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:20,359 Speaker 2: you're not gonna want to chug away at something for 480 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:21,720 Speaker 2: twenty years if it's miserable. 481 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,040 Speaker 1: Yeah, you have to find that Venn diagram overlap between 482 00:24:25,480 --> 00:24:28,679 Speaker 1: stuff the world finds useful and stuff you personally enjoy 483 00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:31,760 Speaker 1: and kind of find the sweet spot between where those overlap. 484 00:24:32,040 --> 00:24:34,320 Speaker 1: And I can always tell if people aren't really into it. 485 00:24:34,359 --> 00:24:36,400 Speaker 1: I mean, I've given the advice all over the place 486 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:38,360 Speaker 1: that you should start a blog or start a newsletter 487 00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 1: or something on this topic if you want to be 488 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:42,479 Speaker 1: known as an expert. And then I'll see the person 489 00:24:42,680 --> 00:24:45,640 Speaker 1: like do it once a week at the exact same 490 00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:48,080 Speaker 1: time every time, Like they're doing one blog post week 491 00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:49,680 Speaker 1: at the exact same time. It's because they put it 492 00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:51,199 Speaker 1: on their to do list that they know they're supposed 493 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,239 Speaker 1: to do it, but they're not that excited about it. 494 00:24:54,040 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 1: Whereas when people get into blogging, they start doing it 495 00:24:56,600 --> 00:25:00,600 Speaker 1: like every day they you know, are it happen almost 496 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,840 Speaker 1: it like sometimes random times because they had a little 497 00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:04,199 Speaker 1: bit of free time and they're like, oh, yeah, well 498 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:06,680 Speaker 1: I'll do a blog post if people want to check 499 00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:11,080 Speaker 1: out Optimistic Musings by the blogger Elizabeth Frost. She started 500 00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:12,760 Speaker 1: blogging a few years ago and she thought she might 501 00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,600 Speaker 1: give it a whirl, and she now posts daily and 502 00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:17,040 Speaker 1: has a ton of fun with it, and it gets 503 00:25:17,080 --> 00:25:19,680 Speaker 1: a lot of comments every day. And I think it's 504 00:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,159 Speaker 1: because she really, really enjoyed it, and so you do 505 00:25:23,280 --> 00:25:26,360 Speaker 1: want to make sure you are doing something that brings 506 00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,439 Speaker 1: happiness if you're going to spend your precious time on 507 00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:30,400 Speaker 1: earth doing. 508 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:33,080 Speaker 2: It totally otherwise find something else. 509 00:25:33,600 --> 00:25:36,320 Speaker 1: But you also don't want to quit prematurely either, because 510 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:38,080 Speaker 1: there's also going to be some rough moments. So I 511 00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,240 Speaker 1: would say, like, if you're saying of starting a podcast, 512 00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:44,040 Speaker 1: make yourself a list of like twenty topics you could 513 00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:46,560 Speaker 1: do an episode on right, because then you will be 514 00:25:46,640 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 1: able to keep going. And if you can't generate a 515 00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,720 Speaker 1: list of twenty topics, you probably shouldn't start it because 516 00:25:50,720 --> 00:25:52,119 Speaker 1: you won't stick with it. Like they're not going to 517 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,840 Speaker 1: magically come to you. But if you do, you don't 518 00:25:55,840 --> 00:25:57,840 Speaker 1: have to do it forever. Like you can decide I'm 519 00:25:57,840 --> 00:25:59,760 Speaker 1: going to try this out, like I'm going to start 520 00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:01,920 Speaker 1: a new letter on this topic. I am going to 521 00:26:01,960 --> 00:26:04,919 Speaker 1: commit to doing two per week for a year, and 522 00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: we will see what comes of it. Now, I'm not 523 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:10,080 Speaker 1: saying that this is going to provide such amazing, wonderful 524 00:26:10,119 --> 00:26:11,919 Speaker 1: opportunities that you're going to be able to quit your 525 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:13,840 Speaker 1: job and retire forever if that's what you are looking for, 526 00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,600 Speaker 1: But something will come out of it, like you cannot 527 00:26:16,640 --> 00:26:20,440 Speaker 1: put one hundred things on a topic out into the 528 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: universe to some number of people without something happening, right, 529 00:26:24,280 --> 00:26:26,520 Speaker 1: Like this is just an odds matter at this point. 530 00:26:26,840 --> 00:26:30,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think you're right. I actually just heard I 531 00:26:30,480 --> 00:26:33,440 Speaker 2: want a reference. There was a podcast episode by Laura Tremaine, 532 00:26:33,440 --> 00:26:36,160 Speaker 2: who does the podcast Ten Things to Tell You, and 533 00:26:36,280 --> 00:26:39,919 Speaker 2: it's about podcasting specifically, and like advice for starting a podcast. 534 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:42,520 Speaker 2: She couched it as like what I wish I knew 535 00:26:42,520 --> 00:26:45,520 Speaker 2: when I started mine, and it's like exactly what you 536 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,639 Speaker 2: just said. But she recommended a minimum of three months, 537 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,680 Speaker 2: which I think is a nice window of time because 538 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:54,359 Speaker 2: that's enough time for you to figure out, Okay, is 539 00:26:54,400 --> 00:26:57,239 Speaker 2: there a learning curve here? Do I enjoy this? Do 540 00:26:57,280 --> 00:26:58,679 Speaker 2: I have enough to talk about? Do I have the 541 00:26:58,720 --> 00:27:01,320 Speaker 2: right topic? But it's not so long that you're committing 542 00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:04,640 Speaker 2: yourself to forever. So pick some kind of reasonable timeframe. 543 00:27:04,760 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 2: Maybe it's three months, maybe it's slightly different than that, 544 00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: and give it a try if that's something you're interested 545 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:11,240 Speaker 2: in doing it, And again, does not have to be 546 00:27:11,280 --> 00:27:12,280 Speaker 2: a podcast, could be anything. 547 00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:14,399 Speaker 1: Yeah, and don't think of it being one off and 548 00:27:14,440 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: done like you want to give yourself enough runway that 549 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,359 Speaker 1: something could happen. So it's not that you're going to 550 00:27:18,400 --> 00:27:21,760 Speaker 1: write one white paper on this topic and then expect 551 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,000 Speaker 1: everything to come from that. But it could be that 552 00:27:24,119 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: something comes out of that one white paper that you 553 00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,200 Speaker 1: have another one you're gonna write, and if you commit 554 00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:30,280 Speaker 1: to doing let's say six over the course of the 555 00:27:30,359 --> 00:27:35,239 Speaker 1: year for this industry publication, like something's gonna come of 556 00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 1: that too. Like it's impossible to put like that much 557 00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,640 Speaker 1: out there and not have something come back, Which leads 558 00:27:42,720 --> 00:27:45,480 Speaker 1: us to our last part of making a name for 559 00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:49,399 Speaker 1: yourself is being open to opportunity, Like if cool things 560 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:54,359 Speaker 1: do come to you, you want to maybe pursue them, Like, 561 00:27:54,440 --> 00:27:56,720 Speaker 1: be open to doing that. I mean, Sarah, I know 562 00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,480 Speaker 1: you do try to say yes to stuff like this. 563 00:27:59,800 --> 00:28:01,919 Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I mean I definitely say yes more than 564 00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:05,520 Speaker 2: I say no. I mean that's how the book is. 565 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 2: I've always wanted to do it, but it was more 566 00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,720 Speaker 2: about like kind of like someone was like, hey, send 567 00:28:09,800 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 2: me this, and I was like, you know what, Yes, 568 00:28:11,840 --> 00:28:14,160 Speaker 2: let me try. I know I might fail, but it's 569 00:28:14,160 --> 00:28:18,520 Speaker 2: certainly worth a try. Same with speaking engagement I have 570 00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:20,280 Speaker 2: coming up that I think is going to be really fun. 571 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,639 Speaker 2: It was a little outside of what I've done before, 572 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,000 Speaker 2: and someone was like, just submit an application, and I did, 573 00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:29,199 Speaker 2: and you know, there was some imposter syndrome like do 574 00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:33,040 Speaker 2: I belong here, Am I an expert, et cetera. But 575 00:28:33,440 --> 00:28:35,000 Speaker 2: I just got past it and now I'm like super 576 00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:38,480 Speaker 2: excited to go. So I do think it's not always 577 00:28:38,520 --> 00:28:40,280 Speaker 2: a yes. Sometimes you also have a gut feeling that 578 00:28:40,320 --> 00:28:41,920 Speaker 2: it should be a no, And I think you should 579 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:44,440 Speaker 2: listen to that there, But at the same time, make 580 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,840 Speaker 2: sure it's not your self doubt that's causing the note. 581 00:28:47,840 --> 00:28:49,320 Speaker 2: It has to be more like no, this is a key, 582 00:28:49,320 --> 00:28:49,920 Speaker 2: I don't like it. 583 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:54,960 Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm doing something a little email newsletter side gig 584 00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:57,959 Speaker 1: right now on something I'm calling the Yes Quest. So 585 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:00,160 Speaker 1: I put out to my newsletter list did people want 586 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:01,640 Speaker 1: to sign up for this yes Quest? And I've just 587 00:29:01,720 --> 00:29:04,720 Speaker 1: been sending like two emails a week encouraging people to 588 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,080 Speaker 1: say yes to some random things. Now, I'm not talking 589 00:29:08,080 --> 00:29:11,400 Speaker 1: about yes to something that seems burdensome or like I 590 00:29:11,440 --> 00:29:13,320 Speaker 1: really don't want to do it. But if it's a 591 00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,320 Speaker 1: yes to something that you're kind of talking yourself out of, right, like, well, 592 00:29:17,360 --> 00:29:20,440 Speaker 1: I guess I could go out to dinner with those 593 00:29:20,480 --> 00:29:22,880 Speaker 1: people who sound fascinating, But you know what if I'm 594 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:27,760 Speaker 1: home late to like, what if that means that I'm 595 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,040 Speaker 1: not doing the laundry that night. I you know, it's 596 00:29:30,080 --> 00:29:32,200 Speaker 1: just like you're talking yourself out of it. That's often 597 00:29:32,240 --> 00:29:34,360 Speaker 1: a sign that you do want to do it, and 598 00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:36,640 Speaker 1: then you're just trying to be practical. So I would 599 00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:39,480 Speaker 1: encourage people to say yes to things like that, because 600 00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,360 Speaker 1: you never know where it's going to lead. You know, 601 00:29:42,400 --> 00:29:45,600 Speaker 1: it's the things you're talking yourself into that you probably 602 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,520 Speaker 1: want to say no to. If you're sitting there saying, well, 603 00:29:47,520 --> 00:29:49,479 Speaker 1: it's probably going to be good for my career and 604 00:29:49,560 --> 00:29:52,520 Speaker 1: maybe if I want to live abroad long term, this 605 00:29:52,560 --> 00:29:54,320 Speaker 1: is something I should experiment. Just like no, if you're 606 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:55,880 Speaker 1: talking yourself into it, you don't want to do it. 607 00:29:55,920 --> 00:29:58,720 Speaker 1: Those are not the kinds of yeses we really want 608 00:29:58,720 --> 00:30:00,760 Speaker 1: to do. It's the ones where you're t fucking yourself 609 00:30:00,800 --> 00:30:05,000 Speaker 1: out of So try things out, Reserve some time for 610 00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760 Speaker 1: things that might come up. If your schedule is absolutely packed, 611 00:30:08,040 --> 00:30:10,120 Speaker 1: you won't be willing to take on something new. If 612 00:30:10,120 --> 00:30:12,480 Speaker 1: people are like, oh, could you give a talk on 613 00:30:12,520 --> 00:30:14,600 Speaker 1: this topic that you find fascinating to this group that 614 00:30:14,600 --> 00:30:16,640 Speaker 1: could be interesting, but you're like, oh, but I'm so 615 00:30:17,560 --> 00:30:19,240 Speaker 1: pressed with these deadlines that work, there's no way I 616 00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 1: can do that. That's where you don't get those opportunities. 617 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:23,800 Speaker 1: So you want to make sure you have some space, 618 00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: and you can also create communities of people to sort 619 00:30:30,560 --> 00:30:34,200 Speaker 1: of help bring opportunities to you. I mean, Sarah, I 620 00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,280 Speaker 1: know you've connected with other people in various podcasting and 621 00:30:38,360 --> 00:30:39,360 Speaker 1: blogging worlds. 622 00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:41,240 Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, and I like it when it comes 623 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 2: kind of organically. I mean sometimes it's more orchestrated like 624 00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:46,920 Speaker 2: our Patriot or things like that which I've met amazing 625 00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:48,720 Speaker 2: people through, or best laid plans a live and then 626 00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,480 Speaker 2: other times it's just like someone emails and you meet 627 00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:53,240 Speaker 2: up and you just say yes, and you know, you 628 00:30:53,280 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 2: see where the connection leads. 629 00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: Yeah. So if there's other people who seem to be 630 00:30:57,840 --> 00:30:59,960 Speaker 1: experts in this topic that you are aiming to be 631 00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,400 Speaker 1: experts in, see if you can collaborate on something, or 632 00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:04,160 Speaker 1: see if you can meet up and have some sort 633 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 1: of check in every quarter or something like that. It's 634 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,600 Speaker 1: a way to get yourself part of that community. And 635 00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: when you are part of a community of experts, you 636 00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:14,720 Speaker 1: become seen more as an expert yourself just by virtue 637 00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,920 Speaker 1: of being associated with other people who are also experts 638 00:31:17,960 --> 00:31:20,560 Speaker 1: in something. Yes, that is true, all right, So lots 639 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,400 Speaker 1: of different ideas on way to make a name for yourself. 640 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,200 Speaker 1: Hopefully some of this has been useful even if you 641 00:31:26,360 --> 00:31:28,840 Speaker 1: are not planning on starting a blogger podcast, but you 642 00:31:28,920 --> 00:31:31,240 Speaker 1: just want to be known as the expert on a 643 00:31:31,280 --> 00:31:35,120 Speaker 1: particular area in your profession. Maybe some things that might 644 00:31:35,160 --> 00:31:38,840 Speaker 1: be helpful as you plan to do that. So today's 645 00:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,479 Speaker 1: question Sarah, As we are coming up for people's spring breaks, 646 00:31:43,520 --> 00:31:46,400 Speaker 1: this listener writes in, it's not really in the cards 647 00:31:46,440 --> 00:31:49,680 Speaker 1: to go somewhere cool this year for spring break. I'll 648 00:31:49,680 --> 00:31:52,440 Speaker 1: probably be working for most of it. How can I 649 00:31:52,480 --> 00:31:55,120 Speaker 1: make sure this is still a somewhat fun time for 650 00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: the kids and for me. 651 00:31:58,080 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, so definitely have been that boat before, especially because 652 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,640 Speaker 2: my kids spring breaks don't actually line up very well 653 00:32:04,720 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 2: right now, so it's not our peak traveling time. So 654 00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:12,200 Speaker 2: I definitely think camps can be helpful, especially if you 655 00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:14,200 Speaker 2: have well, I mean, it sounds like you're working, so 656 00:32:14,240 --> 00:32:16,280 Speaker 2: you may need some kind of childcare anyway, and looking 657 00:32:16,280 --> 00:32:18,600 Speaker 2: for specialty camps like maybe something a little bit different, 658 00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:23,280 Speaker 2: if different sports venues or art places or something. A 659 00:32:23,320 --> 00:32:25,760 Speaker 2: lot of them are opportunistic these days, and they're smart. 660 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: They offer like camps during breaks for you to sign 661 00:32:28,640 --> 00:32:31,200 Speaker 2: up and get childcare there, so considering that can make 662 00:32:31,240 --> 00:32:32,760 Speaker 2: it more fun for the kids, and maybe doing it 663 00:32:32,760 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 2: with a friend would be even better. Treating your area 664 00:32:35,760 --> 00:32:37,960 Speaker 2: like a tourist and doing like a real staycation, like 665 00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,560 Speaker 2: maybe everybody writes down ideas and then you pull everything 666 00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,880 Speaker 2: together and let the kids each pick one out. Even 667 00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,760 Speaker 2: movies can be a nice relaxing thing to do during 668 00:32:47,760 --> 00:32:49,640 Speaker 2: a staycation, just because we don't have time to do 669 00:32:49,680 --> 00:32:52,120 Speaker 2: that kind of a thing during the day otherwise. And 670 00:32:52,120 --> 00:32:55,080 Speaker 2: then I definitely think banding with others can be helpful. 671 00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:57,840 Speaker 2: You're probably not the only one staying home, so finding 672 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 2: out if anybody else wants to do a kid swap 673 00:33:00,160 --> 00:33:03,680 Speaker 2: or a big group outing could add some fun to 674 00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:04,200 Speaker 2: your days. 675 00:33:04,680 --> 00:33:06,920 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, definitely think about the camp options. I've 676 00:33:06,920 --> 00:33:09,320 Speaker 1: seen ones to advertise from everything from like a climbing 677 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:15,600 Speaker 1: gym to karate to art studios. There's definitely some stuff 678 00:33:15,640 --> 00:33:18,320 Speaker 1: out there if you live in a reasonably sized community. 679 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:20,880 Speaker 1: But if your kids are even slightly older but not 680 00:33:20,960 --> 00:33:23,040 Speaker 1: old enough to sort of you know, you don't want 681 00:33:23,040 --> 00:33:25,560 Speaker 1: to just have them fending for themselves for the entire week. 682 00:33:25,560 --> 00:33:29,600 Speaker 1: If you have an occasional sitter who might have some availability, 683 00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,040 Speaker 1: you could have that person take them somewhere for a 684 00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:35,360 Speaker 1: day or two, right like if the weather is nicer 685 00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 1: for spring break. I mean, they could go to an 686 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,040 Speaker 1: amusement park if one happens to be open, or go 687 00:33:41,200 --> 00:33:45,840 Speaker 1: to like a further away trampoline park or something like 688 00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:48,120 Speaker 1: that for several hours and make a day trip of it. 689 00:33:48,840 --> 00:33:50,800 Speaker 1: I think you could also definitely have the mindset of 690 00:33:51,240 --> 00:33:55,360 Speaker 1: one big adventure, one little adventure. You could go somewhere 691 00:33:55,520 --> 00:33:59,480 Speaker 1: over the weekends on either side of spring break. It 692 00:33:59,520 --> 00:34:01,120 Speaker 1: could be an overnight trip, it doesn't have to be. 693 00:34:01,120 --> 00:34:02,800 Speaker 1: You could do a day trip on say both of 694 00:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,480 Speaker 1: those saturdays, and that would still be something memorable. And 695 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:08,799 Speaker 1: then maybe two evenings during the week you all do 696 00:34:08,920 --> 00:34:11,080 Speaker 1: something that you wouldn't normally do. I mean, you go 697 00:34:11,160 --> 00:34:15,240 Speaker 1: to an indoor pool at night, or you go out 698 00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:17,680 Speaker 1: to how I'll have dinner at food trucks that are 699 00:34:17,680 --> 00:34:19,720 Speaker 1: part somewhere. I mean, you could come up with something 700 00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:23,400 Speaker 1: that would be adventurous and would make the time memorable, 701 00:34:23,400 --> 00:34:25,840 Speaker 1: because that's really what you're getting at with traveling somewhere 702 00:34:25,840 --> 00:34:28,000 Speaker 1: over spring break too, is like making memories. So what 703 00:34:28,040 --> 00:34:30,600 Speaker 1: can you do to make memories even if the memories 704 00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,560 Speaker 1: are where you are and you are working forty hours 705 00:34:34,560 --> 00:34:34,960 Speaker 1: that week? 706 00:34:35,520 --> 00:34:37,800 Speaker 2: I love it? All right, love of the week? 707 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:41,200 Speaker 1: All right? Well, I would suggest that people do check 708 00:34:41,239 --> 00:34:45,440 Speaker 1: out Dori Clark's books on personal branding. Her books stand 709 00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:47,759 Speaker 1: Out definitely has a lot of great information on that 710 00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,719 Speaker 1: and I enjoyed reading it, So that could be my 711 00:34:49,800 --> 00:34:50,480 Speaker 1: love of the week. 712 00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:52,719 Speaker 2: Well, I'm going to go with one that I didn't 713 00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:54,239 Speaker 2: realize was so controversial. 714 00:34:55,520 --> 00:34:57,160 Speaker 1: What is it? 715 00:34:57,280 --> 00:35:01,200 Speaker 2: Thin mints that are from the freezer? What do you 716 00:35:01,239 --> 00:35:03,120 Speaker 2: have against I don't have any. 717 00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:04,920 Speaker 1: Well, I was always, as a Girl Scout sort of 718 00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,440 Speaker 1: mystified why thin mints were the most popular. I don't know, 719 00:35:08,480 --> 00:35:12,960 Speaker 1: I feel like it's not really that exciting of a cookie, 720 00:35:13,000 --> 00:35:15,560 Speaker 1: and yet they would always be like thirty to forty 721 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,200 Speaker 1: percent of the sales. Right. I was a pretty good 722 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:21,760 Speaker 1: Girl Scouts cookie salesperson, so we're talking to some serious 723 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:25,120 Speaker 1: volume here, and those were always a higher percentage than 724 00:35:25,120 --> 00:35:27,279 Speaker 1: I would give them based on how they taste, and 725 00:35:27,280 --> 00:35:29,040 Speaker 1: then I found out people are putting them in the freezer, 726 00:35:29,080 --> 00:35:31,800 Speaker 1: and I just don't understand, Like what it tastes like 727 00:35:31,840 --> 00:35:34,480 Speaker 1: a cold thin min? Like what does that do for you? 728 00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 2: It gets the chocolate shell to have like a crispier texture, 729 00:35:38,480 --> 00:35:42,759 Speaker 2: and it's just amazing. Room temperature thin min's don't quite 730 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,520 Speaker 2: do it for me, but like freezer thin min's amazing. 731 00:35:45,840 --> 00:35:51,239 Speaker 1: Love them, okay, all right, Well to each her own. 732 00:35:51,280 --> 00:35:53,680 Speaker 1: I'm not saying they're bad. I'm not saying they would 733 00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:57,160 Speaker 1: be my love of the week though. All right, well, 734 00:35:57,280 --> 00:35:59,719 Speaker 1: good thing we each get th We get our own 735 00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,520 Speaker 1: love of the week. 736 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,799 Speaker 2: More thin mian's for me, all right, more thinmans for you? 737 00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:06,920 Speaker 1: All right? Well, this has been best of both worlds. 738 00:36:06,920 --> 00:36:09,040 Speaker 1: We've been talking about how to make a name for yourself. 739 00:36:09,280 --> 00:36:11,200 Speaker 1: We will be back next week with more on making 740 00:36:11,200 --> 00:36:12,520 Speaker 1: work and life fit together. 741 00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:17,360 Speaker 2: Thanks for listening. You can find me Sarah at the 742 00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:21,799 Speaker 2: shoebox dot com or at the Underscore Shoebox on Instagram, 743 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:22,520 Speaker 2: and you. 744 00:36:22,480 --> 00:36:26,759 Speaker 3: Can find me Laura at Laura vandercam dot com. This 745 00:36:26,800 --> 00:36:30,080 Speaker 3: has been the best of both worlds podcasts. Please join 746 00:36:30,160 --> 00:36:32,880 Speaker 3: us next time for more on making work and life 747 00:36:33,000 --> 00:36:33,680 Speaker 3: work together.