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Speaker 1: Wonderful good podcast introduction boys the West part of the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Maybe that could just be hor retro, Hi Mayre, how

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Speaker 1: are you we're doing a podcast?

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Speaker 2: I've been feed a the chess world has decided that

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Speaker 2: my chess powers are too strong, and I'm now I'm

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Speaker 2: now being discriminated against. It's a good time, very excited. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: having a great time with my biological advantage at chess.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, that's right. Well, you know, you've got to reach

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Speaker 1: those those chess pieces somehow, and it's old to do

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Speaker 1: with your hip angle.

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Speaker 2: Trying to my wrists are too powerful. This allows me

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Speaker 2: to write down my moves faster than my opponent, thus

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Speaker 2: giving me an advantage on the clock. I can also

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Speaker 2: reach the clock faster. Incredible stuff happening in the world

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Speaker 2: world of chess.

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Speaker 1: Not just chess, sadly, but the fact the Turfs have

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Speaker 1: got their clause, I guess, into many sports, which is

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Speaker 1: what we are talking about today. Specifically, I thought we

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Speaker 1: could talk about how the Turfs were in cycling, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because that is the thing they have been trying to

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Speaker 1: do for some time. It's a thing I've written about before,

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Speaker 1: and hopefully a thing I'll be able to write about again,

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Speaker 1: and unless the cycling press just kind of gives itself

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Speaker 1: over to the turf, which doesn't seem to have done,

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Speaker 1: to be fair, generally, generally dicycling press, I think it's

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Speaker 1: fair to say, has lacked an intersexual analysis of anything.

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Speaker 1: But they've been better on this than I had expected,

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Speaker 1: especially the outlets which are not run by white sis

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Speaker 1: heat dudes in Boulder, which, to be fair, is a minority. Yeah, strange,

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Speaker 1: that odd? How odd? But yeah, shouting in particular to

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Speaker 1: Outside for including a gear guide to the gear the

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Speaker 1: cop used at the twenty sixteen RNC, which could perhaps

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Speaker 1: be included as the most tone deaf article ever written. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: incredibly comment and then to leave it up in twenty

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Speaker 1: twenty to not like cover your tracks.

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Speaker 2: You know, this is one of those. This is one

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Speaker 2: of those like when the workers take Boulder like no

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Speaker 2: biker will go hungry moments.

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Speaker 1: Ah Yeah, Boulder, Colorado is a special place for bad things.

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Speaker 1: I won't say bad things to happen because they had

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Speaker 1: not a format shooting, but like social Yeah, intersexual analysis

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Speaker 1: has not made it to Bolder savvy. Great, great shame.

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Speaker 1: But when I'm talking about Boulder today, we're starting out

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Speaker 1: with a little discussion of cyclo cross. So, cyclo cross.

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Speaker 1: Are you familiar with cyclo cross? Mire? No, okay, so

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Speaker 1: it's a fundamentally silly sport in which I've competed, of course.

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Speaker 1: It's it's when competitors race skinny tired drop bar bikes

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Speaker 1: on off road course. Yeah, I would please google preps. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to send you one one cyclic cross video.

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Speaker 1: It is iconic for people who are who are at home.

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Speaker 1: The videos called is joey Okay, we can we can

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Speaker 1: have mere reacting live.

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Speaker 2: The first picture that I saw when when I googled

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Speaker 2: this is two people not riding on the two people

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Speaker 2: carrying their bikes.

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Speaker 1: Yes, so this is a thing. Right, you get really

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Speaker 1: good at cycling, you train your entire life and then

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Speaker 1: and then in cyclic costs are parts where you have

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Speaker 1: to get off. Unless you're very talented. You can hop

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Speaker 1: the barriers. I've tried that with mixed success or you

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Speaker 1: can also you can ride the stairs, but you do

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Speaker 1: have to be a bit of a boss. So there

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Speaker 1: are barriers and challenges which you have to get off.

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Speaker 1: It's called field riding in Dutch, which is about right

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Speaker 1: writing have you watched the video will include a link

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Speaker 1: in the note to everyone else of it. Did you

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Speaker 1: watch it with the sound on?

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Speaker 2: Yeah? Okay, I'm trying to figure out how to describe

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Speaker 2: this effectively. What has happened is this guy Okay, so

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Speaker 2: these guy's like going at full speed and then while

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Speaker 2: the bike is still moving, he's attempting to get off

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Speaker 2: the bike before he gets to this barrier, and he

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Speaker 2: like he just goes. He does not get offentime. The

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Speaker 2: bike's going too fast and he like he is he's

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Speaker 2: like sprawling, but in mid aires he's flying off his

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Speaker 2: bike over this barricade thing.

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Speaker 1: EDGs. It is incredible. Yeah, all the time people are

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Speaker 1: shouting his name. And that's what you're supposed to do.

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Speaker 1: You're supposed to dismount and just carry the speed. You

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Speaker 1: kind of you can thwing your leg through a thing,

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Speaker 1: your leg to outside and then carry a speed and

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Speaker 1: jump and then hop back on it. It's a very

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Speaker 1: strange sport, right, And a big part of cyclo cross

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Speaker 1: is heckling. So the crowd will heckle you, right, they will.

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Speaker 1: They'll do all kinds of things like often like crowd

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Speaker 1: hand ups are a big thing in cycle across. So

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Speaker 1: like I've been handed dollar bills.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what is happening in the sport?

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, it's very funny. And the moment, you're not

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Speaker 1: compective if you're just grabbing ship off the spectators. So like,

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Speaker 1: like I remember racing in Las Vegas at night. There

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Speaker 1: was a race in Las Vegas at night, and I

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Speaker 1: ain't gonna win right like then, so I'm just grabbing

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Speaker 1: dollar bills and shoving them down my like like people

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Speaker 1: will hand you like drinks. I've had beer hand ups,

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Speaker 1: donut spake, and one notable occasion a cookie that was

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Speaker 1: not just a normal cookie, which you should fucking disclose

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Speaker 1: to someone before you get to Yeah, that was a

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Speaker 1: bad day. I also had a pretty rough traumatic brain

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Speaker 1: injury that day. Oh no, yeah, I'd already sustained brain injury.

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Speaker 1: And the cookie. I thought my blood sugar was low,

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Speaker 1: so I was like, yeah, I'm going to get that

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Speaker 1: cookie and it's going to be great. It was not.

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Speaker 1: It wasn't the blood sugar. It it was affected my cognition.

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Speaker 1: So cyclo cross is fun and silly, and heckling is

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Speaker 1: part of it, but like heckling occurs within a certain

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Speaker 1: certain bounds right, Like you're not supposed to be mean,

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Speaker 1: it's just supposed to be funny, like everyone's supposed to laugh.

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Speaker 1: So I think in twenty twenty one everyone was rather

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Speaker 1: it's funny signed as a part of it too, right.

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Speaker 1: But in twenty twenty one we saw some shit that

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Speaker 1: was distinctly not funny when a group called Save Women's

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Speaker 1: Sport posted up at the race and held what were,

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Speaker 1: as you can probably guess by the name, transphobic science

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Speaker 1: throughout the race. So a lot of people were upset

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Speaker 1: by this, and by their own admission, nobody wanted them there.

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Speaker 1: One woman told the protesters your shiit feminism isn't welcome here,

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Speaker 1: which I think would be a great T shirt. If

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Speaker 1: she's listening, please will license your T shirt from you.

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Speaker 1: And they were pretty rarely rejected by most of the community,

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Speaker 1: which is great, But the bigotry they bought really wasn't

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Speaker 1: a surprise to anyone who'd been paying attention to online

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Speaker 1: discourse for a while, especially with respect to cycling. The

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Speaker 1: harassment of trans cyclists has been escalating for years. For

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Speaker 1: at least five or six years now, the governing body

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Speaker 1: USA Cycling has known about this and chosen to have done

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Speaker 1: nothing to stop it. Right, So this particular focus on

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Speaker 1: cycling came about in twenty eighteen when anti transcardras began

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Speaker 1: to focus on the sport because of the success of

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Speaker 1: a woman named Veronica Ivy. She wasn't called Veronica Ivy

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Speaker 1: at the time, and she was using she had a

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Speaker 1: different name then, but that's her name now, so I'm

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Speaker 1: going to use that name out of respect for her

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Speaker 1: choice for that to be her name. She she won

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Speaker 1: a world championship in the women's thirty five to forty

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Speaker 1: four spring category. Now, like, I have no disrespect at

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Speaker 1: all for masters athletes. It's great. I'm glad people are

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Speaker 1: out there exercising. This is not the same as an

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Speaker 1: Olympic gold medal, right, like the big I would I

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Speaker 1: mean people may disagree. The biggest determinant of your ability

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Speaker 1: to win a master's track cycling gold medal is the

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Speaker 1: amount of free time you have to exercise and the

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Speaker 1: amount of money you have to buy fast gear and

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Speaker 1: get to the event. Right, wait, what what is like?

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Speaker 1: The difference between masters is it's competitions for older people.

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Speaker 1: So it's so in cycling you have juniors and there

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Speaker 1: are various you know, obviously the eight year olds don't

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Speaker 1: compete with eighteen year olds, but up to eighteen is

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Speaker 1: juniors espoirs is eighteen to twenty three. We use a

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Speaker 1: French name because you know, you want to be all

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Speaker 1: what is what is what? Jesus Christ? Yeah, this French

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Speaker 1: name under twenty three, right, you can call it if

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Speaker 1: you want it to be an angler phile. And then

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Speaker 1: from there you go into the elite competition. Elite competition

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Speaker 1: is it's actually eighteen and like an eighteen year old

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Speaker 1: could compete in an elite competition, so could a fifty

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Speaker 1: year old, right, But it's the highest level of competition.

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Speaker 1: And then you get protected age categories again once you

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Speaker 1: get to thirty five, so thirty five to forty four,

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Speaker 1: forty five to fifty four going ten year blocks, right,

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Speaker 1: and that's for people who are only of that age.

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Speaker 1: Now it's the older you get, the less competitive it gets,

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Speaker 1: just because more people will fewer people will be racing. Right,

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Speaker 1: But thirty five plus masters sometimes they call it baby masters,

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Speaker 1: is not. You don't have a significant decrease in your

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Speaker 1: endurance performance at thirty five, so like some of these

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Speaker 1: people are still very good, and that's why they call

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Speaker 1: it baby masters, I guess. But like track cycling is

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Speaker 1: not a big sport to begin with, right, that's going

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Speaker 1: around in circles on an indoor velodrome. Master's track cycling,

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Speaker 1: it's a smaller sport. And then I know some excellent

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Speaker 1: masters track cyclists who just don't care to go to worlds. Right.

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Speaker 1: They've been professional cyclists, are very high level amateur cyclists,

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Speaker 1: and once you reach your mid forties, some people don't

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Speaker 1: care to travel and spend that money and do that competition. Right.

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Speaker 1: San Diego has a really great track scene. Some people

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Speaker 1: who I know very well have recently won multiple world

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Speaker 1: championships on the track, like, we have a very thriving scene,

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Speaker 1: but not all of those people even care to go

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Speaker 1: to La to race worlds like, let alone travel across

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Speaker 1: the world. Right, So it doesn't necessarily truly mean the

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Speaker 1: people who win Masters are the best athletes in the

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Speaker 1: world for their age group. And certainly I wouldn't say.

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Speaker 1: There are lots of things that make this competition unfair.

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Speaker 1: One of them is how much track bikes cost, how

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Speaker 1: much track time costs, and how much travel costs to

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Speaker 1: get to the event. But of course it didn't matter

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Speaker 1: to these people, right, What mattered is that a transfoman

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Speaker 1: had won, and she became the center of the culture war.

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Speaker 1: And this was really at least the first one that

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Speaker 1: I was aware of, a sort of instance of someone

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Speaker 1: a trans person winning a very a notable event in cycling.

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Speaker 1: And maybe trans people have been competing in elite races

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Speaker 1: in cycling for forty years, like Wally Cameron was the

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Speaker 1: first trans woman to race in a World Cup, and

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Speaker 1: Money's been racing for a while, and no one said shit,

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Speaker 1: no one cared, right, But around twenty eighteen, the culture

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Speaker 1: war around trans people was becoming heightened, and so people

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Speaker 1: got mad about her wing the race. And since then

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Speaker 1: there's been this steady increase in transphobic sentiment towards by Crass.

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Speaker 1: It's really the sort of leading voice in this has

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Speaker 1: been former probke Grace at Inger Thompson. She's been joined

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Speaker 1: by a few amateur women in various fields voicing their

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Speaker 1: feelings about the participation of trans women. And Thompson has

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Speaker 1: made a lot of statements, some of which I'll, you know,

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Speaker 1: choose not to share with you. You can google them

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Speaker 1: if you want, but most of them will be like

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Speaker 1: she misgenderous people all the time, right, that that's what

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Speaker 1: you can find her on Twitter, misgendering people. And I

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Speaker 1: think that that is kind of the giveaway that this

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Speaker 1: isn't necessarily about sport, right. And I think that it's

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Speaker 1: really important that people, regardless of where you stand on sport,

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Speaker 1: understand that this is a wedge and it's a wage

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Speaker 1: that's designed to push trans people out and away from

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Speaker 1: femininity in a way, from inclusion.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. I think one of the reasons why it's important

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Speaker 2: is that it's a way of focusing the discourse like

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Speaker 2: on trans people, on like really really weird interpretations of

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Speaker 2: physical characteristics. Yeah, and this is something that you can

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Speaker 2: use to sort of like, you know, this, this is

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Speaker 2: the wedge that you can use to sort of like

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Speaker 2: tear this sort of issue open. It's been really really

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Speaker 2: effective at this, and it's also been like, you know,

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Speaker 2: it's something that's sort of like vaguely plausible, plausibly deniable,

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Speaker 2: and it also plays on a really kind of effective

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Speaker 2: branding strategy that these people had, which is that, like,

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Speaker 2: you know, if people remember what feminism was like in

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Speaker 2: like the twenty tens, it was almost entirely about you know,

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Speaker 2: not just in the twenty tens, like you even sort

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Speaker 2: of previous to this, right, Like the notion that like

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Speaker 2: women are weaker than men was something that was like

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Speaker 2: like broadly considered to be sexist, Like that was not

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Speaker 2: a feminist thing that was like like women are weaker

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Speaker 2: than men. And then you know, you get you're when

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Speaker 2: you're getting into people complaining about like like trans women,

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Speaker 2: like being on Jeopardy or like this shit that's happening

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Speaker 2: in chests that we're going to talk about later, it's

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Speaker 2: like okay, Like if you go back in time to

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Speaker 2: before sort of trans arrangement syndrome set in, like and

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Speaker 2: you told someone that in the future, this person is

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Speaker 2: going to be arguing that like like like trans women

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Speaker 2: have a biological advantage in Jeopardy because men are smarter

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Speaker 2: than women. They'd be like, what the fuck are you

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Speaker 2: talking about? Like this person is like a neo Nazi.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's oh that women are only defined by their

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Speaker 1: ability to bear children, right, and and then that is

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Speaker 1: your sole characteristic and value as a woman, Like yeah,

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Speaker 1: and like like this.

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Speaker 2: Is and this is something that you know if you

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Speaker 2: go back to like Simon before God I hate French

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Speaker 2: it's really a true it's a truly terrible language.

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Speaker 1: That's the official stance of this podcast, Anti French Action.

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Speaker 2: Yeah yeah, but like you know, I mean, you know,

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Speaker 2: like you actually read the Second Sex, and like in

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Speaker 2: the Second Sex is talking about you know, literally like

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Speaker 2: her famous line it's like women, like no one is

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Speaker 2: born a woman like women is made right because it's

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Speaker 2: it's it's it's it's it's a social process, not a

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Speaker 2: biological one. And then you know, and and but because

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Speaker 2: there was like a kind of cultural victory for feminist

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Speaker 2: where it suddenly became really really difficult to be a

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Speaker 2: mainstream person and like call yourself, like call yourself an

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Speaker 2: anti feminist, Like all of these people who believe all

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Speaker 2: of the same shit that like phylish Lafley did, like

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Speaker 2: have to relabel themselves feminists. And you know, and sports

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Speaker 2: is the sports the thing they picked to do that

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Speaker 2: because sports is the like it's the area they can

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Speaker 2: pick where they can, like with some plausible deniability, start

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Speaker 2: doing all of this like oh, women are inherently weaker

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Speaker 2: than men and have to be protected from men like

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Speaker 2: shit again.

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Speaker 1: Yeah yeah, and it's yes, it's very much like un

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Speaker 1: recontstractive stuff that we would have seen if not feminist

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Speaker 1: twenty years ago. Now sadly it's being advanced by people

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Speaker 1: laying claimed to feminism. I guess yeah. So in the

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Speaker 1: most recent Phyclocross Nationals, trans athlete Austin Cillips finished third

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Speaker 1: at the event, local John Browann gun club members had

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Speaker 1: attended to step in and protect transathletes what's governing body

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Speaker 1: wouldn't And it was actually a really I mean, what

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Speaker 1: you saw was a lot of discourse online about Austin

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Speaker 1: quote unquote blocking uh and SIS woman athlete, and then

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Speaker 1: you saw like a lot of people sort of saying

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Speaker 1: that and like SIS women had been I guess, like

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Speaker 1: you know that Austin's inherent biological advantage I'm using heavy

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Speaker 1: scare quotes here had allowed her to come third. She

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Speaker 1: got beaten by two SIS girls, right, Like this is.

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Speaker 2: Always the thing like that. There was one of these

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Speaker 2: in skateboarding where like this turf skateboarder was like yelling

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Speaker 2: about how she'd been beaten by a trans woman and

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Speaker 2: you look at the results. She lost to an eight

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Speaker 2: year old. She was outplaced by an eight year old,

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Speaker 2: like shot the fuck up bullshit, like.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the discuss about like Austin quote

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Speaker 1: unquote blocking someone like I don't know, but to me,

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Speaker 1: it very clearly seemed to come from people who hadn't

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Speaker 1: watched many other bicycle competitions, right, Like that's what we do.

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Speaker 1: You push on each other, you lean on each other.

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Speaker 1: Like if you didn't do that, people would follow over

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Speaker 1: a whole lot more. It's a race, you're trying to

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Speaker 1: get to the finish line first. But she didn't do

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Speaker 1: anything that anyone else wouldn't have done. And at the

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Speaker 1: time Turfs kind of tried to make this a big

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Speaker 1: deal but were unsuccessful. And it was not really until

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Speaker 1: Austin won a race in New Mexico, a big race

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Speaker 1: tour of the Healer, that it became again, Like it

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Speaker 1: wasn't twenty eighteen a very big deal? Right? So one

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Speaker 1: of the key leaders, as I said, is Inga Thompson.

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Speaker 1: Inga's a very accomplished cyclist, There's no doubt about that, right.

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Speaker 1: She's a Bicycle Hall of Fame inductee, five time national champion,

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Speaker 1: three time Olympic team member, a Tour de France firm,

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Speaker 1: and a podium finisher, a three time silver medallist at

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Speaker 1: the U Show World Championships, but I think she's arguably

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Speaker 1: more famous now for her anti trans bigotry, and she's

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Speaker 1: appeared she tried to encourage cyclist to take a knee

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Speaker 1: in protest at the ucis transgender inclusion Yeah, which like.

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Speaker 2: Fox News finally finds something that they're for.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they've finally. She was actually removed from her role

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Speaker 1: on the board of a France based American protein for

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Speaker 1: her statements there. I thought that their statement is kind

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Speaker 1: of interesting. They said, if shared in the absence of politics,

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Speaker 1: her knowledge and experience would benefit many in advanced cycling

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Speaker 1: for everyone. However, she has decided to dedicate her time

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Speaker 1: to excluding people that otherwise currently eligible to compete and

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Speaker 1: UCI events. She is also tempted to use our team

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Speaker 1: as a platform for political activity, which like is a

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Speaker 1: very neutral stance, but it's also it's also like it's fine, right, like, like,

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Speaker 1: our cycling team isn't here to hate trans people. If

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Speaker 1: you're going to use it for hating trans people, please

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Speaker 1: go somewhere else like it. It doesn't you don't have

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Speaker 1: to like take a hugely radical stance to be like that,

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Speaker 1: this isn't a hate platform for hate speech. Like like

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Speaker 1: go away, and that they added to be clear, Miss

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Speaker 1: miss Thompson is entitled to her opinion's an advocacy, but

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Speaker 1: her methods and personal attacks are inconsistent with ciniska's mission

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Speaker 1: to advanced opportunities for women. These methods, well documented on

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Speaker 1: Miss Thompson's social media presence, include dehumanization of transgender people,

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Speaker 1: spreading misinformation, demagoguery, and personal attacks on anyone who opposes

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Speaker 1: her views spellow alert that includes me. She doesn't like

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Speaker 1: me it all, I don't don't be mean to trans people,

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Speaker 1: don't missgender my friends. So I did think it was

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Speaker 1: very funny that like this team isn't like the like

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Speaker 1: I don't knowe that like the woke team for woke people.

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Speaker 1: They're just trying to get along with helping women cycle

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Speaker 1: and they can't do that if they're one of their

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Speaker 1: board members is so consumed by hate that no no

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Speaker 1: one wants to have anything to do with it. So

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Speaker 1: in the wake of this protest, the twenty twenty one

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Speaker 1: Save Women's Sport protest fliletted they're unofficial with USA Cycling,

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Speaker 1: published an open letter calling for the resignation of the

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Speaker 1: organization's CEO and the safe sport coordinator Kelsey Rickson, who's

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Speaker 1: responsible for preventing hate speech and bullying. They gather one

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Speaker 1: hundred and five signatures from racists and other cyclists in

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Speaker 1: support of their demands, and a day after they sent

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Speaker 1: the letter, De Martini announced he was stepping down. So

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Speaker 1: he has a bit of a failure of just like

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Speaker 1: there's a statement he made an interview where he said

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Speaker 1: it would be different if our athletes were going to

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Speaker 1: be affected. When he was talking about bands for trans

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Speaker 1: athletes in interscholastic sports, he said, we don't believe they

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Speaker 1: will be which look in technical and in technical sense

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Speaker 1: because cyclists could be for clubs, not schools. They might

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Speaker 1: not have done. But if you think that a ban

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Speaker 1: on trans kids playing at school isn't going to affect

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Speaker 1: participation in trans athletes in all sports everywhere, either completely

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Speaker 1: myopic or bearing your bigotry. He claimed he was quoted

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Speaker 1: out of context, but it was part of a pretty

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Speaker 1: big block quote. I don't see how that could be

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Speaker 1: taken out of context. They did say at that time

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Speaker 1: that they're against any legislation limits trans inclusion. It's worth

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Speaker 1: pointing out that cycling has a body as to all

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Speaker 1: Olympic sports. It should prevent hate speech, bigotry, and bullying, right,

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Speaker 1: And that's called Safe Sport set up in twenty seventeen,

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Speaker 1: and that was following what happened at USA Gymnastics, right,

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Speaker 1: which was widespread sexual abuse of athletes. People I'm sure

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Speaker 1: will remember that Safe Sport, I feel fairly confident in

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Speaker 1: saying has completely failed in preventing abuse, preventing harassment, preventing bullying.

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Speaker 1: What it has done is is perhaps given a legal

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Speaker 1: shield to governing bodies, so has prevented them getting sued.

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Speaker 1: But it's done nothing to prevent this kind of bullying,

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Speaker 1: which is why athletes and the community have had to

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Speaker 1: taken upon themselves to do that. Right, Like, if there's

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Speaker 1: one thing you should expect a governing money to do

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Speaker 1: to make sure everyone feels safe at races. But people

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Speaker 1: were legitimately worried about racing in areas where they knew

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Speaker 1: there were a lot of not just turfs, but like

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Speaker 1: groups like the Proud Boys right, who have kind of

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Speaker 1: hung their hat on transphobia. I know people who didn't

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Speaker 1: go to races in areas where they were worried about that.

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Speaker 1: I know people who, like you know it went out

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Speaker 1: of went to an effort every day to drive a

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Speaker 1: different way back to their hotel at races because they're

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Speaker 1: worried about like people genuinely felt unsafe doing something that

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Speaker 1: no one should feel unsafe doing, which is playing. So

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Speaker 1: as I said, you know who won't make you feel unsafe?

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Speaker 2: I I'm going to say the products and services, and

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Speaker 2: then I'm gonna.

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Speaker 1: They will wrap you up in a cocoon like blanket

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Speaker 1: of gold and coin and meal kits. How can do

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Speaker 1: you not feel so safe when you're surrounded by Reagan coins?

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Speaker 2: No one fact checked.

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Speaker 1: This is a fact check free zone. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: The following and preceding thirty seconds have not been fact checked. Right,

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Speaker 1: Please enjoy these adverts, and we are back and we're

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Speaker 1: still talking about turfs. So says Women's Sports, which is

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Speaker 1: this organization that put on the protests, presents itself as

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Speaker 1: an organic reaction to the participation of trans women, who

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Speaker 1: it repeatedly misgenders in women's categories. Claimed that several races

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Speaker 1: in the cycle across national championships privately contacted the organization

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Speaker 1: to express concerns, but only one, Evie Edwards, competed under

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Speaker 1: the SWF Team banner. SWS at the time was not

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Speaker 1: a nonprofit, so it was relatively hard to find out

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Speaker 1: what exactly their financial ties to various other transphobic and

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Speaker 1: right wing groups were. It's registered in Minnesota as a business,

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Speaker 1: but it appears to be assault. At the time, again,

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Speaker 1: it was a sole prop run by someone called best Steltzer.

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Speaker 1: The both Ev Edwards and SWS used the race to

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Speaker 1: aggressively fundraise for their campaign. Steltzer, for instance, at the time,

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Speaker 1: was making three hundred and eighty five bucks per month

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Speaker 1: on Patreon by quote creating awareness of males invading female spaces.

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Speaker 1: Page has been taken down since then. She turfed too

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Speaker 1: close to the Sun. She also received donations on her

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Speaker 1: venmo page, which is very funny because I don't think

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Speaker 1: she realized her venmo page was public. Checked it out

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Speaker 1: in the judge. Yeah, that there is no there There

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Speaker 1: was no distinction made between advocacy spending and personal spending

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Speaker 1: on that account, I will say, And she was taking

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Speaker 1: advocacy donations and you know, making emoji purchases it on

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Speaker 1: a venmo at the time. I think maybe since has

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Speaker 1: made it private, but this.

430
00:25:06,440 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 2: Is something that like if you ever want to just

431
00:25:08,240 --> 00:25:11,280
Speaker 2: like I don't know if someone just like appears in

432
00:25:11,359 --> 00:25:14,320
Speaker 2: the news and they suck, like, go try to find

433
00:25:14,320 --> 00:25:18,040
Speaker 2: them on venmo because people just don't realize that stuff.

434
00:25:18,200 --> 00:25:21,400
Speaker 2: And oh yeah, you know, people like people recently caught

435
00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:24,360
Speaker 2: like I think we talked about Clarence Thom.

436
00:25:24,400 --> 00:25:24,840
Speaker 1: I think it was.

437
00:25:24,760 --> 00:25:29,240
Speaker 2: Clarence Thomas people amazing paying his staffers on venmo, Like

438
00:25:30,280 --> 00:25:33,480
Speaker 2: you can find a bunch of very funny stuff because

439
00:25:33,520 --> 00:25:35,480
Speaker 2: people people are bad at doing crime.

440
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:39,120
Speaker 1: Now, yeah, I cannot tell you how many people, uh

441
00:25:40,080 --> 00:25:44,159
Speaker 1: literally had things on their venmo like travel to DC

442
00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:50,600
Speaker 1: and like like on January sixth, right like ven boing

443
00:25:50,600 --> 00:25:55,280
Speaker 1: each other for like revolution tacos after they divated the

444
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:59,439
Speaker 1: Capitol smart stuff and no, no, please keep doing that

445
00:26:00,359 --> 00:26:05,000
Speaker 1: if you're planning transphobia or coups. So much of this

446
00:26:05,119 --> 00:26:08,359
Speaker 1: awareness that save women's sports awareness, Like I think if

447
00:26:08,359 --> 00:26:11,160
Speaker 1: you're ever donating to someone who's promoting quote unquote awareness

448
00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:14,280
Speaker 1: of anything, there should be a large red flag. It's

449
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:16,600
Speaker 1: an extremely nebulous concept that very ready does anything to

450
00:26:16,600 --> 00:26:19,399
Speaker 1: help anyone. But much of this awareness seems to be

451
00:26:19,440 --> 00:26:23,000
Speaker 1: tied to pre standard right wing anti trans talking points

452
00:26:23,560 --> 00:26:26,679
Speaker 1: and not the many dozens, maybe hundreds of instances were

453
00:26:26,720 --> 00:26:29,359
Speaker 1: trans and sists women happily compete alongside each other, have

454
00:26:29,400 --> 00:26:32,119
Speaker 1: a nice time, do exercise, go home, and don't engage

455
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:36,040
Speaker 1: in any bigotry. In the past, just WS has worked

456
00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,600
Speaker 1: with far right organizations like the Heritage Foundation and the

457
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: Family Research Council to prepare a guide to quote help

458
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,199
Speaker 1: parents understand the transgender issue. Again, if you're framing the

459
00:26:45,200 --> 00:26:48,520
Speaker 1: existence of other people as an issue, you're not that

460
00:26:48,560 --> 00:26:53,560
Speaker 1: far from flaming it as a question, are you. Yeah,

461
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,840
Speaker 1: I'm impressed to the self awareness avoided the transgender question,

462
00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:01,720
Speaker 1: but only by you know, using the thesaurus to reframe

463
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:04,399
Speaker 1: it as an issue. I guess the guide refers to

464
00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,880
Speaker 1: the transgender trend quote unquote and repeatedly calls trans women men.

465
00:27:10,240 --> 00:27:13,760
Speaker 1: They of course also you know Steltzer In particular, it

466
00:27:13,800 --> 00:27:17,440
Speaker 1: appears anti abortion rallies, anti marriage equality rallies, things like that. Right,

467
00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:20,000
Speaker 1: this is part of a wider space of painting bigotry.

468
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: It's not just about support. Cyclists have taken it upon

469
00:27:24,840 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: themselves to protect trans riders. So access of solidarity, of

470
00:27:29,800 --> 00:27:33,760
Speaker 1: range for blocking SWS protesters and national championships announces refusing

471
00:27:33,960 --> 00:27:36,960
Speaker 1: to allegedly refusing to mention races on the team.

472
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 2: That's pretty funny.

473
00:27:39,119 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, it is pretty funny. Also, this mo money Cameron

474
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: has this organization called Ride, which is let trans kids ride,

475
00:27:48,359 --> 00:27:51,359
Speaker 1: and money Mate sees wristband which like a trans flag,

476
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:54,800
Speaker 1: the Transpride flag, and like one of my friends won

477
00:27:54,960 --> 00:27:58,320
Speaker 1: the biggest race in the US. It's cis guy with

478
00:27:58,640 --> 00:28:01,960
Speaker 1: his Transpride ristband on, which, you know, a little thing.

479
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,159
Speaker 1: But also like it's it's nice to see people show up, Like, yeah,

480
00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:09,000
Speaker 1: it's nice to see and like it's rare that you'll

481
00:28:09,040 --> 00:28:10,840
Speaker 1: go to a race when people won't be you won't

482
00:28:10,840 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 1: see a few people wearing that like in pro men,

483
00:28:13,400 --> 00:28:17,520
Speaker 1: pro women, you know, both, like it's there are overwhelmingly

484
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:21,280
Speaker 1: people don't give a fuck. They're just happy if you're

485
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,399
Speaker 1: enjoying riding bikes. It's not like it's a big sport.

486
00:28:24,160 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: You know. The real threat cycling is all of us

487
00:28:26,040 --> 00:28:29,200
Speaker 1: getting killed by people in Tesla's playing pong like it's

488
00:28:29,280 --> 00:28:35,720
Speaker 1: not it's not trans women. But unfortunately this solidarity hasn't

489
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:40,120
Speaker 1: extended to the governing body, so two years after this

490
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 1: initial protest right, the UCI effectively banned all trans women

491
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:48,320
Speaker 1: from participating in elite level cycling. This happened just a

492
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:50,760
Speaker 1: few weeks before the World Championships. Like, I have friends

493
00:28:50,760 --> 00:28:56,640
Speaker 1: who had to cancel their flights. Yeah, it was the

494
00:28:56,640 --> 00:29:01,600
Speaker 1: most bungled, fucked up pseudo science kind of half fast,

495
00:29:02,000 --> 00:29:04,720
Speaker 1: Like it was just a mess. The whole thing was

496
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:09,000
Speaker 1: a fucking mess. They had an extraordinary meeting in August,

497
00:29:09,080 --> 00:29:11,160
Speaker 1: just a few weeks for the World Championships, and like

498
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: people previously had to have a to have a submit

499
00:29:14,840 --> 00:29:17,400
Speaker 1: blood numbers to show a testosterone level to compete, right,

500
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:19,880
Speaker 1: which is a thing lots of governing bodies have been

501
00:29:19,880 --> 00:29:23,840
Speaker 1: doing for a while now. They had certified people like

502
00:29:23,920 --> 00:29:25,840
Speaker 1: weeks before this, they'd be like, yeah, you're good to

503
00:29:25,840 --> 00:29:29,160
Speaker 1: go for another year, and then that psyche, No you're not.

504
00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: You can't compete ever again. And like this is people's jobs, right,

505
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,080
Speaker 1: this is their livelihood, it's how they pay rents. It's

506
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:39,040
Speaker 1: also like being an elite cyclist is hard. It is

507
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 1: most of your life, right, Like you're you've got to

508
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:43,280
Speaker 1: sleep or you got to eat, right, You've got to

509
00:29:43,320 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: train all the fucking time. You can't go out. You're

510
00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:49,200
Speaker 1: going to be resting when you're not training to take

511
00:29:49,240 --> 00:29:50,880
Speaker 1: all that away from someone with a click of the

512
00:29:50,920 --> 00:29:55,040
Speaker 1: fingers and bringing no consultation for them. It's incredibly cruel

513
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,240
Speaker 1: and the U see, I'll just read their statement because

514
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:01,400
Speaker 1: I think there's a couple of things in it we

515
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:04,200
Speaker 1: should pick apart. Obviously, you can't take woying for it

516
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:07,640
Speaker 1: being inherently transphobic. From now on, female transgender athletes who

517
00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:11,720
Speaker 1: have transitioned after quote male puberty will be prohibited from

518
00:30:11,760 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: participating women's events on the UCI International Calendar in all

519
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,240
Speaker 1: categories in the various disciplines. Notably, they also said it's

520
00:30:19,240 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: also impossible to rule out the possibility that biomechanical factors

521
00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:24,320
Speaker 1: such as the shape and arrangement of the bones in

522
00:30:24,360 --> 00:30:28,760
Speaker 1: their limbs, may constitute a lasting advantage for female transgender athletes.

523
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:35,240
Speaker 1: And yeah, it's yeah, there's a lot going on there, right,

524
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:39,600
Speaker 1: Like they use female where where most people would use women.

525
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,360
Speaker 1: The barrier they set is to rule out any possibility

526
00:30:43,360 --> 00:30:45,720
Speaker 1: of an advantage, right, which is a very high barrier.

527
00:30:45,760 --> 00:30:48,400
Speaker 1: That's like a kind of guilty and to prove it

528
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 1: innocent situation, right, Like I'd also like the arrangement of

529
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,280
Speaker 1: the bones in my limbs changed significantly when I was

530
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,880
Speaker 1: racing bikes because I broke them all the fucking time.

531
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:02,160
Speaker 1: Such such a strange category to choose. Also, the requirement

532
00:31:02,160 --> 00:31:04,520
Speaker 1: that you transition before puberty. That's not the same as

533
00:31:04,560 --> 00:31:08,520
Speaker 1: taking puberty blockers, right, They're requiring that they're taking homemones

534
00:31:08,560 --> 00:31:12,240
Speaker 1: before puberty, like like eleven or twelve, yeah, which.

535
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,880
Speaker 2: Which is just also now illegal in an enormous number

536
00:31:14,920 --> 00:31:16,120
Speaker 2: of states, like.

537
00:31:16,360 --> 00:31:20,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, and even most from what I understand, most gender

538
00:31:20,160 --> 00:31:23,400
Speaker 1: affirming care takes the approach of taking puberty blockers rather

539
00:31:23,480 --> 00:31:24,920
Speaker 1: than yeah.

540
00:31:24,440 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 2: Well this is this is sort of like I mean,

541
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:30,240
Speaker 2: this is sort of the disaster that's been happening in

542
00:31:30,240 --> 00:31:32,880
Speaker 2: the last like four or five years on this, which

543
00:31:32,920 --> 00:31:38,080
Speaker 2: is that like like taking puberty blockers was the compromise position. Yes,

544
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 2: Like that was the position that was taken because people

545
00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:44,600
Speaker 2: thought it was too dangerous to like let kids do HRT,

546
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,960
Speaker 2: which it's not like it's completely fine. In fact, it's

547
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 2: actually like you know, you're you're going to go through

548
00:31:51,320 --> 00:31:54,760
Speaker 2: puberty anyways, right, You're like like if if you are

549
00:31:54,800 --> 00:31:57,360
Speaker 2: in a human body, you were doing uncontrolled puberty, and

550
00:31:57,400 --> 00:32:00,520
Speaker 2: that is less safe than doing a controlled really which

551
00:32:00,560 --> 00:32:03,080
Speaker 2: is what you know, doing like doing it urty when

552
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:06,160
Speaker 2: you're a child, is yeah, but yeah, the young vice

553
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:07,880
Speaker 2: position was like, oh well we're not we're gonna do

554
00:32:07,960 --> 00:32:11,520
Speaker 2: those will do puberty blockers, and then like everyone went

555
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,440
Speaker 2: insane about puberty blockers. And now like even the compromise

556
00:32:14,520 --> 00:32:17,360
Speaker 2: position has been sort of like you know, I mean

557
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 2: like we're away that, and it's like okay, like you know,

558
00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: but then and then like and then you know, like

559
00:32:23,160 --> 00:32:25,560
Speaker 2: now and then having done this right, and it's like, oh, well,

560
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,520
Speaker 2: now you can set up all of these rules that

561
00:32:27,560 --> 00:32:29,920
Speaker 2: are like require you to have done a thing you've

562
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:31,960
Speaker 2: now made illegal. It's like this is.

563
00:32:31,920 --> 00:32:35,000
Speaker 1: Great, Yeah, exactly right. You now have a rule that

564
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:40,320
Speaker 1: basically bans almost anyone from participation, like you have to

565
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:45,880
Speaker 1: begin transitioning at eleven. It's also very nebulous, like male puberty,

566
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,239
Speaker 1: like like what does that mean? What what point are

567
00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:50,520
Speaker 1: you defining you have been through male puberty? Like are

568
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:52,440
Speaker 1: we going to after able to submit that fucking test

569
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:53,800
Speaker 1: of stone numbers from when they were eight?

570
00:32:54,760 --> 00:33:00,520
Speaker 3: Like yeah, like what like it's it's just man, it's

571
00:33:00,560 --> 00:33:05,600
Speaker 3: what it is, right, it's you can't ever transition satisfactorily enough.

572
00:33:05,680 --> 00:33:07,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, or like, for example, I don't know, so, like,

573
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:11,240
Speaker 2: let's say you you are onlike let's say you don't

574
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:13,720
Speaker 2: start hormones until you're like twenty four, but but you

575
00:33:13,840 --> 00:33:17,680
Speaker 2: rearrange the bones in your body, it just allows you

576
00:33:18,400 --> 00:33:20,800
Speaker 2: you now have feminine bone arrange.

577
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,240
Speaker 1: Bit does this now allows you to cycle gender affirming

578
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:34,040
Speaker 1: orthopedic surgery? Yeah? And like also this, and I want

579
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:37,320
Speaker 1: to get into this a little bit because it completely

580
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:42,040
Speaker 1: obfuscates or ignores I guess what we know to be

581
00:33:42,160 --> 00:33:45,240
Speaker 1: true that there is not a binary puberty process, because

582
00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:48,280
Speaker 1: there is not. Humans don't exist in a binary sex,

583
00:33:48,480 --> 00:33:51,000
Speaker 1: nor do they exist in binary genders. Right, So, I

584
00:33:51,080 --> 00:33:54,200
Speaker 1: think probably the best example of this would be Marie

585
00:33:54,280 --> 00:33:58,160
Speaker 1: Jose Martinez Patigno. If people aren't familiar with her, obviously

586
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:03,160
Speaker 1: Google is right there for you. But she was dismissed

587
00:34:03,200 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: from a Spanish Olympic team in nineteen eighty six for

588
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:09,160
Speaker 1: failing the gender test. She's publicly shamed for being like

589
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:12,840
Speaker 1: a secret male. She loses her fiancee, she loses her funding,

590
00:34:13,400 --> 00:34:17,279
Speaker 1: she loses almost everything. She fought and won a successful

591
00:34:17,360 --> 00:34:21,320
Speaker 1: court battle, illustrating the fallacy of this binary gender approach.

592
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,120
Speaker 1: But she's not a trans woman, to be clear, she's

593
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: an intersexu woman who has androgen insensitivity syndrome, but she

594
00:34:28,480 --> 00:34:31,279
Speaker 1: was able to They were using chromosome typing, right, Like

595
00:34:31,280 --> 00:34:33,319
Speaker 1: like you'll often this is a thing that you'll still

596
00:34:33,320 --> 00:34:35,600
Speaker 1: see turf trotting out right, something that was outdated in

597
00:34:35,640 --> 00:34:39,640
Speaker 1: nineteen eighty six, that like xx or x y, that

598
00:34:40,120 --> 00:34:43,960
Speaker 1: is that's not a binary that fits the entirety of

599
00:34:44,000 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: the human species.

600
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:46,520
Speaker 2: Yeah, there's like a lot of people for a lot

601
00:34:46,560 --> 00:34:47,440
Speaker 2: of other different.

602
00:34:47,280 --> 00:34:52,399
Speaker 1: Kinds of yeah, mosaicism. Like it's again like I get it,

603
00:34:52,560 --> 00:34:55,520
Speaker 1: you didn't you're not a biologist. That's fine, It's okay

604
00:34:55,560 --> 00:34:57,440
Speaker 1: to shut the fuck up if you don't understand something.

605
00:34:58,280 --> 00:35:00,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's one of those things that's sucks because it's

606
00:35:00,719 --> 00:35:02,920
Speaker 2: like like I wish these people had decided to like

607
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 2: try to build airplanes based off of like pre Deutnean

608
00:35:06,960 --> 00:35:09,520
Speaker 2: or something work, because it's like like there's no consequence

609
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,520
Speaker 2: for them for not understanding biology. But it's like I

610
00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,120
Speaker 2: don't know, like like if if you, if you, if

611
00:35:14,120 --> 00:35:17,240
Speaker 2: you're trying to argue that like general relativity doesn't exist,

612
00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:20,160
Speaker 2: like your you're like your satellite is gonna fall on you.

613
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:22,799
Speaker 2: But this this is the one thing where you can

614
00:35:22,920 --> 00:35:25,799
Speaker 2: just like you can say ship that it's not even

615
00:35:25,880 --> 00:35:27,520
Speaker 2: like like people people make a joke it's like high

616
00:35:27,520 --> 00:35:29,840
Speaker 2: school biology. It's like it's not it's just like elementary

617
00:35:29,840 --> 00:35:34,280
Speaker 2: school biology. And it's not right, like like YouTube biology,

618
00:35:34,320 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 2: isn't it That's what it is?

619
00:35:35,280 --> 00:35:40,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, yes, exactly, yeah, but unfortunately the consequences of

620
00:35:40,280 --> 00:35:45,680
Speaker 1: people who are not them, Yeah, and that's hugely unfortunate. Right,

621
00:35:45,719 --> 00:35:47,799
Speaker 1: Like even we see like Cassa Semenia when a court

622
00:35:47,880 --> 00:35:50,600
Speaker 1: case this month or last month, like allowing her to

623
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:54,440
Speaker 1: compete again, like we found time and again that this

624
00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,200
Speaker 1: notion of a binary sex is as nonsense to call

625
00:35:58,239 --> 00:36:01,320
Speaker 1: as emotion of a binary gender, and yet we continue

626
00:36:01,360 --> 00:36:05,440
Speaker 1: to try and force people into these different competitions. I

627
00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:07,800
Speaker 1: just want to read a statement that Austin made and

628
00:36:08,719 --> 00:36:12,080
Speaker 1: like it's very hard not to see this as them,

629
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,239
Speaker 1: specifically seeing Austin winning a big stage race in New

630
00:36:15,280 --> 00:36:17,480
Speaker 1: Mexico and going like, right, we can't fucking have that,

631
00:36:18,160 --> 00:36:20,359
Speaker 1: Like as soon as trans women win stuff, Right, it's

632
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,440
Speaker 1: fine if they come and then don't win, but as

633
00:36:22,440 --> 00:36:24,680
Speaker 1: soon as they win stuff, And again, if she had

634
00:36:24,719 --> 00:36:27,480
Speaker 1: this inherent massive biological advantage, she would have won everything

635
00:36:27,640 --> 00:36:32,240
Speaker 1: which hasn't happened. She said, I'm devastated by the UCI

636
00:36:32,320 --> 00:36:34,880
Speaker 1: decision to renege on the policy and framework it previously

637
00:36:34,880 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 1: set out for inclusion. My journey in professional racing has

638
00:36:37,719 --> 00:36:41,200
Speaker 1: allowed me to see the world, build lifelong friendships, and

639
00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:44,200
Speaker 1: most importantly, give my absolute or something I find deeply fulfilling.

640
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:46,560
Speaker 1: No one should be denied the opportunity to chase that

641
00:36:46,680 --> 00:36:49,520
Speaker 1: same joy that I and others have found through racing,

642
00:36:50,320 --> 00:36:54,000
Speaker 1: which I think is great, and I think it's important

643
00:36:54,040 --> 00:36:57,800
Speaker 1: to lift up her voice in this and other transathlete voices.

644
00:36:58,360 --> 00:37:01,759
Speaker 1: In theory, there is what's called open category, which is

645
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: the men's category. The problem is that there are no

646
00:37:05,880 --> 00:37:11,239
Speaker 1: open races and that this category, like, if you line

647
00:37:11,320 --> 00:37:13,640
Speaker 1: up as a trans woman in the fucking open category,

648
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:17,920
Speaker 1: you're being very clearly othered, right, yeah, you're being like

649
00:37:18,600 --> 00:37:22,759
Speaker 1: you're Some of them also will have women's licenses, like

650
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,359
Speaker 1: it's not clear what men's category they can race in.

651
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,359
Speaker 1: But more importantly, I think, as Chris Mosia pointed out,

652
00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 1: people will be familiar as Chris as the first trans

653
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,320
Speaker 1: athlete tend Olympic trials in the US. The open category

654
00:37:36,360 --> 00:37:39,560
Speaker 1: contradicts both international Olympic Committee guidelines on Fairness and Inclusion

655
00:37:39,800 --> 00:37:42,080
Speaker 1: and extensive research at states trans women do not have

656
00:37:42,120 --> 00:37:44,680
Speaker 1: an inherent advantage in sport. Chris is a good follow

657
00:37:44,760 --> 00:37:50,359
Speaker 1: on Twitter, it's the Chris Mosia, but it contradicts even

658
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:56,000
Speaker 1: like the IOC. Again, not like on the bastions of wokeness,

659
00:37:56,840 --> 00:37:59,360
Speaker 1: people who sent the Olympics for the Nazis have a

660
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:03,760
Speaker 1: better policy see them this. And yet cycling has chosen

661
00:38:03,800 --> 00:38:06,880
Speaker 1: to go above and beyond, And in large part I

662
00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:10,399
Speaker 1: can't not see that as because of the attention paid

663
00:38:10,440 --> 00:38:12,280
Speaker 1: to this by people who do not give a fuck

664
00:38:12,320 --> 00:38:16,720
Speaker 1: about cycling. Yeah, because they found a wedge, and because

665
00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:20,040
Speaker 1: our community has generally been inclusive, Like even after this

666
00:38:20,160 --> 00:38:23,400
Speaker 1: at the World Championships there were people with trans flags

667
00:38:23,520 --> 00:38:26,359
Speaker 1: the course, you know, like World Championship or which trans

668
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:30,200
Speaker 1: women could not compete, advocating for inclusion right it was

669
00:38:30,239 --> 00:38:34,959
Speaker 1: in Glasgow. And as a rule, the sport I think

670
00:38:35,600 --> 00:38:39,239
Speaker 1: has been accepting. Like I've never cycled, not known there

671
00:38:39,320 --> 00:38:42,720
Speaker 1: being trans people in cycling, and I've cycled a lot,

672
00:38:43,000 --> 00:38:46,160
Speaker 1: but this has allowed trans people to thrive. And when

673
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:48,920
Speaker 1: trans people started describing these fucking bigots decided to make

674
00:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600
Speaker 1: this a wedge issue and that's why it's happening here,

675
00:39:02,160 --> 00:39:04,759
Speaker 1: but it's also fucking happening in chess. So do you

676
00:39:04,800 --> 00:39:06,800
Speaker 1: want to do you want to talk about chess?

677
00:39:06,840 --> 00:39:07,000
Speaker 4: Man?

678
00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:10,239
Speaker 5: This is this is insane, Okay. The weird part about

679
00:39:10,239 --> 00:39:13,280
Speaker 5: the chess one is like I I don't know, I had.

680
00:39:13,360 --> 00:39:16,799
Speaker 5: This is not something that anyone in chess was like

681
00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:18,759
Speaker 5: talking about.

682
00:39:19,040 --> 00:39:22,200
Speaker 2: Like chess has like a lot of incredibly weird and

683
00:39:22,280 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 2: bizarre political stuff going on, but like they're I had,

684
00:39:26,880 --> 00:39:29,399
Speaker 2: I don't know, Maybe I just missed it, or maybe

685
00:39:29,400 --> 00:39:31,560
Speaker 2: it was just like a part of the chess discourse

686
00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:35,920
Speaker 2: I wasn't following, But like I I don't know, really

687
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,719
Speaker 2: truly weirdly just seemingly out of nowhere. I don't know

688
00:39:39,760 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 2: what is going on with this seemingly out of nowhere

689
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:45,680
Speaker 2: fee Day, which is like the International Chess Federation released

690
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:51,880
Speaker 2: this statement, released this like policy that says that like

691
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:55,439
Speaker 2: it has a lot of weird stuff. It effectively sets

692
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:58,080
Speaker 2: up fee Day as like what I can only describe

693
00:39:58,120 --> 00:40:01,279
Speaker 2: as a gender counsel, where like, if you want to

694
00:40:01,360 --> 00:40:03,480
Speaker 2: like change your gender, you have to like submit it

695
00:40:03,480 --> 00:40:05,840
Speaker 2: to fee Day, and then fe DA gets to decide

696
00:40:05,880 --> 00:40:09,799
Speaker 2: what gender you are so great, great things happening here.

697
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:17,920
Speaker 2: And then also for some reason, Okay, so chess has

698
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,080
Speaker 2: had this thing for a while where chess has like

699
00:40:21,400 --> 00:40:25,480
Speaker 2: there are like women's sections for stuff, and there's a

700
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 2: lot of some weird stuff going on here. So like

701
00:40:27,760 --> 00:40:31,319
Speaker 2: there's the regular title like grand Master, there's also like

702
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,800
Speaker 2: a women's grandmaster thing which has different qualification, is slightly different,

703
00:40:34,840 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: and this was this was set up basically because like

704
00:40:38,280 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 2: the guys who play chess are insane, Like I've talked

705
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,200
Speaker 2: about this some of the Bobby Fisher episodes right, like

706
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: they're like most of the most famous chess players in

707
00:40:47,920 --> 00:40:52,920
Speaker 2: history are like utterly deranged Neo Nazis or like like

708
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:56,400
Speaker 2: people who are even weirder than Neo Nazis, like like

709
00:40:56,400 --> 00:41:02,120
Speaker 2: like unreconstructed like nineteen seventeen Zon artists, like people like that,

710
00:41:02,239 --> 00:41:07,160
Speaker 2: like just people with with like truly truly deeply weird

711
00:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,799
Speaker 2: political ideologies that are like unbelievably right wing, and you know,

712
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:15,919
Speaker 2: and like part of part of what like happens here

713
00:41:16,040 --> 00:41:20,759
Speaker 2: is that like just chess in general is like unfathomably sexist,

714
00:41:20,960 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 2: Like it's it's really really bad, and you know, like

715
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:31,239
Speaker 2: their solution to this effectively was like to create this

716
00:41:31,400 --> 00:41:37,359
Speaker 2: like kind of parallel like women's infrastructure, which kind of

717
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:41,120
Speaker 2: works and kind of hasn't in a lot of ways.

718
00:41:41,160 --> 00:41:42,560
Speaker 2: And you know, like part of what's going on is

719
00:41:42,600 --> 00:41:47,560
Speaker 2: just like, okay, so a lot of girls, like young

720
00:41:47,640 --> 00:41:51,560
Speaker 2: girls play chess, but there's this bottleneck that happens around

721
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,400
Speaker 2: when you're like thirteen or fourteen, while this is twelve

722
00:41:54,440 --> 00:41:57,200
Speaker 2: to thirteen, So there's fourteen where like the number of

723
00:41:57,200 --> 00:42:01,240
Speaker 2: girls playing chess just like collapses, right, And the reason

724
00:42:01,280 --> 00:42:03,280
Speaker 2: that happens is because boys are fucking dog.

725
00:42:03,160 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: Shit Like this is this is this is like literally.

726
00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:09,080
Speaker 2: What's happening, right, is like you have a bunch of sexist,

727
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:11,400
Speaker 2: like really sexist boys. And then the product of this

728
00:42:11,520 --> 00:42:14,680
Speaker 2: is that because there's so many fewer like women who

729
00:42:14,680 --> 00:42:16,440
Speaker 2: played chess and there are men you play chess, like,

730
00:42:16,760 --> 00:42:19,200
Speaker 2: there's just like, for example, like there's way less like

731
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:21,960
Speaker 2: women who are like really high rated chess players. And

732
00:42:21,960 --> 00:42:25,960
Speaker 2: that's because there's just like like the barrier of institutional

733
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:28,279
Speaker 2: sexism to like become a woman who's really good at

734
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:31,759
Speaker 2: chess is so high. And then yeah, okay, so so

735
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:33,520
Speaker 2: this this is the sort of background, So like there

736
00:42:33,560 --> 00:42:38,080
Speaker 2: are these separate like women's like tournaments and stuff like that,

737
00:42:39,320 --> 00:42:42,800
Speaker 2: and so fee DA, which is the Chess Federation, released

738
00:42:42,840 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 2: this thing where Okay, so they say a few things.

739
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:58,960
Speaker 2: One is that, okay, the the the big one is

740
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:03,000
Speaker 2: that if you, like, if you are a trans woman,

741
00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:07,480
Speaker 2: you cannot play in official fee Day events or women

742
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:11,560
Speaker 2: until fee Day does something. And it's not entirely clear

743
00:43:11,640 --> 00:43:12,279
Speaker 2: what that is.

744
00:43:12,800 --> 00:43:15,600
Speaker 1: So is it like a testosterone level you have to submit?

745
00:43:16,040 --> 00:43:20,160
Speaker 2: Wait, literally, I'm just gonna read this sentence because it's

746
00:43:20,160 --> 00:43:24,440
Speaker 2: it's utterly unclear what is going on here. In the

747
00:43:24,480 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 2: event that the gender was changed from male to female,

748
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,799
Speaker 2: the player has no right to participate in official fee

749
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:32,240
Speaker 2: Day events or women until free Day's decision is made.

750
00:43:33,719 --> 00:43:37,200
Speaker 2: Such decision should be based on further analysis and should

751
00:43:37,520 --> 00:43:40,239
Speaker 2: and shall be taken by the fee Day Council at

752
00:43:40,280 --> 00:43:42,880
Speaker 2: the earliest possible time, but no longer than within a

753
00:43:42,920 --> 00:43:47,239
Speaker 2: two year period. So it's you can be out for

754
00:43:47,320 --> 00:43:51,239
Speaker 2: two years. Well yeah, wait, wait, why what the fuck?

755
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:51,440
Speaker 4: Like?

756
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:52,960
Speaker 2: What what?

757
00:43:52,960 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: What?

758
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:53,799
Speaker 2: What?

759
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:54,040
Speaker 1: Like?

760
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:57,839
Speaker 2: What what are they possibly like analyzing here?

761
00:43:58,120 --> 00:43:58,279
Speaker 4: Right?

762
00:43:58,480 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: Like I I it is it?

763
00:44:01,280 --> 00:44:03,520
Speaker 2: Like like what what what? What? What it? What is

764
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:07,080
Speaker 2: supposed to be the thing that differentiates like the genders

765
00:44:07,120 --> 00:44:09,359
Speaker 2: that like lets you that makes you not be able

766
00:44:09,400 --> 00:44:12,360
Speaker 2: to compete in the women's category. Like is it like

767
00:44:12,360 --> 00:44:14,400
Speaker 2: like is it like if you played you aggressively or

768
00:44:14,440 --> 00:44:15,560
Speaker 2: some ship like what what?

769
00:44:15,880 --> 00:44:20,759
Speaker 1: Yeah, well it's baffling. Yeah, that is a bizarre decision

770
00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:24,200
Speaker 1: like and yeah, like you said, it's just completely it's

771
00:44:24,200 --> 00:44:28,000
Speaker 1: not even that they're not it's not an Olympic sport, right,

772
00:44:28,239 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 1: it's not like they have to conform to any IOC guidelines.

773
00:44:32,640 --> 00:44:35,600
Speaker 2: Yeah is the chess cartel right, Like they can do

774
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,719
Speaker 2: whatever they want, you know, I mean, like I know,

775
00:44:38,920 --> 00:44:42,480
Speaker 2: expecting Fede to do stuff that isn't insane is like,

776
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:50,120
Speaker 2: look like this is the organization that after uh that

777
00:44:50,280 --> 00:44:53,759
Speaker 2: after Bobbie Fisher went on the radio in the Philippines

778
00:44:53,800 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 2: and said that he hopes that the government like rounds

779
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:58,640
Speaker 2: up all Jewish people and kills them like they let

780
00:44:58,719 --> 00:45:02,239
Speaker 2: him back into feed A after that, So like, you know,

781
00:45:02,360 --> 00:45:06,759
Speaker 2: a great organization run by amazing people here. Yeah, but

782
00:45:06,880 --> 00:45:09,600
Speaker 2: this is I don't know, it's it's incredibly deeply weird.

783
00:45:10,160 --> 00:45:17,600
Speaker 2: Like the thing I keep thinking about is, I don't know,

784
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:21,560
Speaker 2: this is kind of a weird, kind of silly story

785
00:45:21,600 --> 00:45:23,920
Speaker 2: in someways, but like so, like the first trans person

786
00:45:24,000 --> 00:45:27,520
Speaker 2: that I was like aware of it was a trans

787
00:45:27,520 --> 00:45:32,800
Speaker 2: StarCraft two player named Scarlett, and she's great. She's awesome,

788
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 2: Scarlet rules she actually she she she's She's one of

789
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:41,799
Speaker 2: three non Korean players ever to win a tournament in Korea, which,

790
00:45:41,920 --> 00:45:44,680
Speaker 2: like I don't know how to express how difficult it

791
00:45:44,760 --> 00:45:47,560
Speaker 2: is to win a StarCraft tournament in Korea. Like it

792
00:45:47,600 --> 00:45:50,440
Speaker 2: would be like if a football team from like Siberia

793
00:45:50,840 --> 00:45:53,080
Speaker 2: showed up to the US was somehow allowed to play

794
00:45:53,120 --> 00:45:55,279
Speaker 2: in the NFL and then like won the super Bowl.

795
00:45:55,320 --> 00:45:57,160
Speaker 2: Like that, That's about the level of difficulty it is

796
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 2: to win a StarCraft tournament in Korea. Yeah yeah, Jamaica

797
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:04,560
Speaker 2: bove say team moment, Yeah yeah, but like like yeah,

798
00:46:04,560 --> 00:46:06,040
Speaker 2: so like you know, it's it's one of those sort

799
00:46:06,080 --> 00:46:09,719
Speaker 2: of like really wild things. But like one of the

800
00:46:09,719 --> 00:46:11,960
Speaker 2: things I remember about that was like she was always,

801
00:46:12,239 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 2: as best I could tell, like always allowed. Like StarCraft

802
00:46:14,480 --> 00:46:17,200
Speaker 2: also had a women's division because you know, very very

803
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:19,799
Speaker 2: similar like probably even more intense sort of sex ye

804
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:23,560
Speaker 2: going yeah, yeah, being pretty toxic, you know, and like

805
00:46:23,560 --> 00:46:25,680
Speaker 2: like yeah, like it was actually you know over the

806
00:46:25,840 --> 00:46:28,320
Speaker 2: arc of like the like the like over a decade

807
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,120
Speaker 2: she's been playing, like you know, like I've seen the

808
00:46:30,120 --> 00:46:32,400
Speaker 2: scene get less transphobic, but like, as much as I

809
00:46:32,440 --> 00:46:34,520
Speaker 2: could tell, there was never like a thing in the

810
00:46:34,520 --> 00:46:36,560
Speaker 2: women's tournaments. They're always just like yeah, sure, hey, look

811
00:46:36,560 --> 00:46:39,440
Speaker 2: a girl wants to play StarCraft like this rips and

812
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:43,640
Speaker 2: yeah yeah, yeah, well more of us like yeah, yeah,

813
00:46:43,680 --> 00:46:45,239
Speaker 2: like you know, and she's also like and she's like

814
00:46:45,520 --> 00:46:48,200
Speaker 2: again really really good at the game. But like, you know,

815
00:46:48,360 --> 00:46:49,799
Speaker 2: but like it like this is the thing that like

816
00:46:49,920 --> 00:46:55,279
Speaker 2: historically hasn't I don't know, like like Jenny Wiley like

817
00:46:55,360 --> 00:46:58,280
Speaker 2: in in games like this that are like not, well, okay,

818
00:46:58,440 --> 00:47:03,399
Speaker 2: StarCraft is enormously more athletic than chess, but like yeah,

819
00:47:03,440 --> 00:47:04,919
Speaker 2: like you know, like this has been a thing where

820
00:47:04,920 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 2: people like there's if you're in one of these like

821
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,080
Speaker 2: incredibly sexist environments, there's like a real, like really obvious

822
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:18,120
Speaker 2: like both trans women and women like we're all in

823
00:47:18,200 --> 00:47:20,800
Speaker 2: this together thing because you get to look at like

824
00:47:20,880 --> 00:47:25,680
Speaker 2: the fucking ravening hordes of like absolutely deranged psychos in

825
00:47:26,160 --> 00:47:28,319
Speaker 2: like the Twitch chat and be like, oh god, they

826
00:47:28,320 --> 00:47:31,360
Speaker 2: hate both of us. Yeah yeah, which is also like

827
00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:34,480
Speaker 2: I think the other thing about this is like it's

828
00:47:34,560 --> 00:47:41,239
Speaker 2: unclear like who at feet day like decided this, Like

829
00:47:41,280 --> 00:47:45,440
Speaker 2: this doc just like appeared, and so there's like a

830
00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:47,640
Speaker 2: non zero chance this decision is being made by men,

831
00:47:47,920 --> 00:47:50,440
Speaker 2: Like pretty high that this is just like a decision

832
00:47:50,440 --> 00:47:54,319
Speaker 2: made by a bunch of men, because fuck them, and

833
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:59,239
Speaker 2: they've just decided that, like you know, after just like

834
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:02,160
Speaker 2: literally are giving a shit about women's dress for like

835
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:06,720
Speaker 2: the entirety of its existence. They've finally decided to do something,

836
00:48:06,760 --> 00:48:09,640
Speaker 2: and they do something is make me not be able

837
00:48:09,680 --> 00:48:11,640
Speaker 2: to play women's tournaments.

838
00:48:11,680 --> 00:48:14,440
Speaker 1: Like right, yeah, you didn't take action when Bobby Fisher

839
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:16,200
Speaker 1: went full Nazi, but you decided to.

840
00:48:16,600 --> 00:48:19,319
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like, okay, this is great, great, great things

841
00:48:19,320 --> 00:48:20,359
Speaker 2: are happening. I don't know.

842
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,600
Speaker 1: Yeah, talking of Nazis, there was a it was I

843
00:48:24,680 --> 00:48:30,920
Speaker 1: think actually a a again a nonbine or okay, an

844
00:48:30,960 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: intersex woman who competed for the Nazis in nineteen thirty

845
00:48:33,760 --> 00:48:39,720
Speaker 1: six at the Olympics. Yeah, with I'm not entirely sure

846
00:48:40,360 --> 00:48:46,240
Speaker 1: of her, like like external external sex presentation, I guess,

847
00:48:46,880 --> 00:48:49,960
Speaker 1: but later definitely served as a man in the German

848
00:48:50,120 --> 00:48:52,880
Speaker 1: Armed Forces. But that could have been a forced social transition.

849
00:48:54,360 --> 00:48:56,719
Speaker 1: But yeah, there's a long history of us trying to

850
00:48:56,719 --> 00:49:00,279
Speaker 1: work out gender ship through sport, and I guess I

851
00:49:00,360 --> 00:49:03,960
Speaker 1: just want to finish by like, if you don't give

852
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:06,120
Speaker 1: a shit about sport, you have to understand this is

853
00:49:06,160 --> 00:49:10,719
Speaker 1: still important because like, sport's always about like who's on

854
00:49:10,760 --> 00:49:12,959
Speaker 1: our team and who's not right. That's why we didn't

855
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,759
Speaker 1: let black people play baseball in the fucking country. It's

856
00:49:15,800 --> 00:49:20,960
Speaker 1: why they took like Olympic medals away from indigenous people

857
00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,279
Speaker 1: for violating stupid amateurism rules because they were designed to

858
00:49:24,320 --> 00:49:28,160
Speaker 1: only let people have a certain class pay. It's why

859
00:49:29,120 --> 00:49:32,760
Speaker 1: Colin Kathmack doesn't have a job, right, Yeah, that's why

860
00:49:32,920 --> 00:49:34,560
Speaker 1: people didn't want to go to the Nazi Olympics and

861
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,520
Speaker 1: went to one in Barcelona, and it was bigger. Like

862
00:49:36,920 --> 00:49:40,799
Speaker 1: sports not just about being the best to exercise. It's

863
00:49:40,920 --> 00:49:44,759
Speaker 1: it's a social tool to include or exclude people. And

864
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:48,560
Speaker 1: if you care about including people, then I think you

865
00:49:48,719 --> 00:49:52,279
Speaker 1: have to care about sport right now, because that is

866
00:49:52,320 --> 00:49:58,080
Speaker 1: a wedge that transfers are using to exclude people. So yeah,

867
00:49:58,160 --> 00:49:59,600
Speaker 1: that's that's what I have for you. I don't know,

868
00:50:00,360 --> 00:50:02,280
Speaker 1: if you have money, you can give it to Molly.

869
00:50:02,920 --> 00:50:05,360
Speaker 1: Molly Cameron you can. You can find her online. She

870
00:50:05,560 --> 00:50:10,080
Speaker 1: will help more trans kids ride or yeah, yeah, go

871
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:11,200
Speaker 1: go ride it back. It's fun.

872
00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,359
Speaker 2: And uh if if if if if you are one

873
00:50:13,360 --> 00:50:15,200
Speaker 2: of the seven people in the world who still thinks

874
00:50:15,200 --> 00:50:17,640
Speaker 2: that Colin Kaepernick doesn't have a job because he's not

875
00:50:17,680 --> 00:50:19,680
Speaker 2: good enough of football, come fight, Come find me in

876
00:50:19,719 --> 00:50:21,839
Speaker 2: the Bears parking lot. I will force you to watch

877
00:50:21,840 --> 00:50:24,960
Speaker 2: an entire season of the Chicago Bears, Like, like, watch

878
00:50:25,000 --> 00:50:27,480
Speaker 2: every quarterback we've ever fucking had in my lifetime, and

879
00:50:27,520 --> 00:50:30,040
Speaker 2: then I will beat you. You will you will you

880
00:50:30,080 --> 00:50:31,560
Speaker 2: will you will you you will be you will be

881
00:50:31,600 --> 00:50:33,480
Speaker 2: in a catatonic state after that.

882
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:41,080
Speaker 1: Yeah, I just found proven right. Money's website is ridegroup

883
00:50:41,200 --> 00:50:43,960
Speaker 1: dot People want to check that out. Oh oh yeah,

884
00:50:44,040 --> 00:50:46,840
Speaker 1: find find Colin Kaepernick on the internet watch videos.

885
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 4: It Could Happen here as a production of cool Zone Media.

886
00:50:54,120 --> 00:50:56,800
Speaker 4: For more podcasts from cool Zone Media, visit our website

887
00:50:56,840 --> 00:50:59,080
Speaker 4: cool zonemedia dot com or check us out on the

888
00:50:59,080 --> 00:51:02,560
Speaker 4: iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

889
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:05,200
Speaker 4: You can find sources for It Could Happen Here, updated

890
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:09,320
Speaker 4: monthly at coolzonemedia dot com. Slash sources. Thanks for listening,