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Speaker 1: Welcome to the crime round up. Y'all. It has been

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Speaker 1: a week. Nay Grace, how are you, honey? Well?

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Speaker 2: Between Brian Coburger, a Luigi Minngioni, and a missing girl,

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Speaker 2: my head is spinning. I recall in time, when you

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Speaker 2: heard this, you'd start running. I heard mister Slayton, my

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Speaker 2: boss at the District Attorney's office, they should come over

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Speaker 2: that loud speaker and go, Nancy Grace, come down to

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Speaker 2: my office. I'm like, oh lord, I had to wear

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Speaker 2: those back then. They had to wear high heels, horrible

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Speaker 2: horrible pantyhose or like a torture chamber. I know a

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Speaker 2: man invented them. And I full like, at that point,

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Speaker 2: believe it or not, you would have to wear either

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Speaker 2: a dress or a you know, skirt and a jacket

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Speaker 2: to court. Women did not wear pants to court, and

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Speaker 2: I thought it was crazy. But frankly, you know, I

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Speaker 2: was of the mind, whatever, just don't mess with my case.

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Speaker 2: You want me to dress up lay that final to

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Speaker 2: just leive me in Lode. I'm not leading a pants crusade.

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Speaker 2: I'm going to win this case. Screw you, basically, and

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Speaker 2: and you know that was my attitude generally. I just

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Speaker 2: wanted to try the case anyway. So I took off

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Speaker 2: running in those high heels. I got to hear my feet,

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Speaker 2: those heels are running down the steps. I got in

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Speaker 2: there and he was reading the paper behind his desk,

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Speaker 2: and I said, yes, sir, and he said he let

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Speaker 2: the paper down, looked at him and goes, do you

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Speaker 2: think you get too personally involved in your cases? And

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Speaker 2: I looked at him. I thought I didn't really thing.

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Speaker 2: I just said yes, sir. He looked at me. He

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Speaker 2: pulled the paperback and he went, all right, that was it.

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Speaker 1: You know what, Nancy. I mean, I've said poor to you,

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Speaker 1: but you're one of those people that, through your life's

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Speaker 1: word taught the rest of us, because you know, you're

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Speaker 1: told at the academy, don't get personally involved, never show emotion.

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Speaker 1: That's not possible. It's either gonna be shown one way

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Speaker 1: or the other. And to me, if you're just natural

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Speaker 1: and authentic, the victim's family responds better, witnesses respond better.

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Speaker 1: You know, law enforcement to you was going to respond better.

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Speaker 1: And I've told this story before, but I'm to tell

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Speaker 1: it again because this is what pops into my head.

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Speaker 1: I'm at your house we're talking about a case. All

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Speaker 1: over your bed are cases, and I mean, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how many. It looked like one hundred to me

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Speaker 1: at the time. And you went over there and you

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Speaker 1: prayed over every case, for the witnesses, for the victims,

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Speaker 1: for the police officers, for the judge. And that still

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Speaker 1: stays with me today that this was not something you

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Speaker 1: were going to lead to chance. This was not something

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Speaker 1: you weren't champion, This is not something that you were

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Speaker 1: not personally invested. It might not have been your loved one,

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Speaker 1: but it was absolutely your case.

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Speaker 2: Well I appreciate that. I remember that too. Every trial,

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Speaker 2: Oh my goodness, because when I get to a point

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Speaker 2: where in my mind can't relax until I feel and

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Speaker 2: it's like this in everything, whether it's you know, a case,

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Speaker 2: whether it's helping Luci or John David on a Scout project,

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Speaker 2: I feel like I can't let go until I have

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Speaker 2: done every single thing I can possibly do to affect

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Speaker 2: the change. And then once I've done that, I'm idly

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Speaker 2: am calm because I've done everything I can think of

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Speaker 2: to do and sometimes the only thing that you can

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Speaker 2: do is pray. And I feel that way right now.

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Speaker 2: By the way about. D Emerson has been with me

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Speaker 2: for eighteen years. I'm going to get back to those

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Speaker 2: three cases and how I took us down the rabbit hole.

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Speaker 2: But I'll tell you how I got d Okay, I

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Speaker 2: needed someone because I was working three jobs hl N

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Speaker 2: Court TV and a radio show out on the West Coast,

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Speaker 2: and I couldn't keep it all. I could do all

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Speaker 2: the work, but everything else, I couldn't do anything else

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Speaker 2: but work. So Dean, as he wouldcall my Exeter producer,

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Speaker 2: Dean Sicole, said Okay, I've got some people coming for

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Speaker 2: you to talk to interview. And I interviewed one, then

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Speaker 2: the next, and that I'm like they were all horrible. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So anyway, finally I said, I when I come to

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Speaker 2: the office, I can't do this today because I've got

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Speaker 2: so much I need to attend to. Regarding the show,

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Speaker 2: he said, okay, I'll have one come over to the house.

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Speaker 2: I went fine to the apartment and you were the

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Speaker 2: door knocked. I was somebody night at the door and

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Speaker 2: went and got it in King Dee Emerson, and she

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Speaker 2: took out this two little bags. As she held them up,

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Speaker 2: they were too tiny, tiny, What do you say those

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Speaker 2: things that body suits. Adult would call it a body

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Speaker 2: set for a baby. I'll be a onesie. They were

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Speaker 2: little white, long slaved onesies that had a Thanksgiving theme

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Speaker 2: hand embroidered on the front. Oh, Happy Thanksgiving, and with

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Speaker 2: some pumpkins or something. I'm like, you're hired. That was it.

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Speaker 2: I just knew, you know how when you just know something.

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Speaker 2: And it wasn't so much them. Of course they did

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Speaker 2: wear them when they were precious to have a million

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Speaker 2: pictures of it, But there was just something about her

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Speaker 2: right just she blew in and it just felt like

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Speaker 2: a cool breeze, you know, that first day of fall.

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Speaker 1: Yes, love it.

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Speaker 2: That is what it was like. Eighteen years and now

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Speaker 2: d is in, I see you. I don't know what happened.

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Speaker 2: Nobody knows yet. She's been having seizures, just out of

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Speaker 2: the blue. I had to take the children to Texas

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Speaker 2: over the weekend to look at some schools, which I

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Speaker 2: secretly don't want them to leave home, but you know,

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Speaker 2: what can I do? So we're coming back. We were

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Speaker 2: texting the whole time back, and the next thing, the

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Speaker 2: next morning, I how did I read it? I saw

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Speaker 2: a note from her sister. I'm like, what and found

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Speaker 2: out that d was in the intense sivecurity. It had

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Speaker 2: seizures and they were so severe that they hadn't been

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Speaker 2: able to do an MRI yet. So we had the

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Speaker 2: MRI yesterday and it so shows she did not have

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Speaker 2: a stroke. But that's all we know. So I appreciate

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Speaker 2: everyone's prayers for d You know some people that are

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Speaker 2: just too good for this world. That's her. She's just

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Speaker 2: one of those. I've never heard her utter one curse word.

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Speaker 2: There have been times that I was so overloaded I

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Speaker 2: would have her take my mother out to lunch. Do

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Speaker 2: you know how excruciating they My mother has been kicked

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Speaker 2: out of multiple restaurants, including mid Pizza, to name one

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Speaker 2: of many, because she wants everything a certain way. If

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Speaker 2: he drives the people so crazy, they probably just say,

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Speaker 2: don't come back. I mean, she's not mean, she doesn't

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Speaker 2: curse it. Then she just drives them crazy.

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Speaker 1: Well, that apple don't fall far, I'm gonna tell you.

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Speaker 1: But poor Dave.

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Speaker 2: I mean, she's just wonderful and she's so smart. I mean,

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Speaker 2: she's worked for the Miss America Pagets, she's worked for

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Speaker 2: the Governor of Kentucky. One time I asked her, said,

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Speaker 2: what's the hardest thing you've ever done? It's easy. She

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Speaker 2: had to get a possum, and I guess it was

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Speaker 2: the governor's mansion in Kentucky. I don't know where it was.

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Speaker 2: She had to get a possum out of a closet

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Speaker 2: with approve. And you know how possums are. If you don't,

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Speaker 2: they hit it and they have these little triangular teeth,

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Speaker 2: and this is They're horrible.

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Speaker 1: And d is so petite, and so she's always so

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Speaker 1: well put together. I can't imagine her going after any possum.

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Speaker 2: Well she did, she did, and she got the possum out. Anyway,

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Speaker 2: please continue to pray for my beloved d. I oh,

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Speaker 2: I don't know what that would do without her. I

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Speaker 2: love her. Okay, Now how did that happen? Oh? Prayers, prayers, prayers.

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Speaker 2: That's where we were, prayers for d Emerson. Okay. Then

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Speaker 2: it went back to this is the mind game. It

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Speaker 2: helps stimulate your brains here to think how did I

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Speaker 2: get Okay? So then we went from it was about

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Speaker 2: praying over the files, and then it was about mister Slayton.

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Speaker 2: And before that I was talking about my head blowing

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Speaker 2: off because of so many cases because I care, all right,

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Speaker 2: I just get so. I think about when I think

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Speaker 2: about Luigia Mi and TIONI, A lot of people think

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Speaker 2: he's hot. I don't. They're insane, you know what I

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Speaker 2: think about. I think about the victim and his wife

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Speaker 2: and those two children, and now they're just bereft, and

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Speaker 2: everybody's talking about Luigi Manngoni is so handsome and save Mangione.

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Speaker 1: What about him?

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Speaker 2: Nobody tried to It was to save him. What But

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Speaker 2: they're mad at him because he worked his rear end

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Speaker 2: off and made it to the top as the CEO.

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Speaker 2: They're mad. I just I don't get at how people

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Speaker 2: can be so blind as to what victims go through.

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Speaker 2: Between that and all this rigmarole about now Lynn Coberger

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Speaker 2: is claiming he has autism just to get out of

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Speaker 2: the death penalty. And don't you know those four victims'

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Speaker 2: parents are just so fed up with his BS. It's

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Speaker 2: just like one thing after it's a wave of BS

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Speaker 2: after the next wave and wave. It's just I think

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Speaker 2: about what they're going through.

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Speaker 1: It is stunt after stunt after stunt. And you know,

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Speaker 1: he didn't have any learning disabilities or any issues getting

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Speaker 1: a freaking PhD.

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Speaker 2: He's kidding bathing Okay, and not only that. Who jumped

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Speaker 2: up on the program the other day talking about that?

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Speaker 2: And I named all these people that I found out had,

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Speaker 2: you know, different severity of autism. Are you ready? Bobby Fischer,

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Speaker 2: the chess champion, the chess master, Ienstein, Jerry Seinfeld is

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Speaker 2: an autism advocate. I mean, it just goes on and on.

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Speaker 2: All of these brilliant people had some degree of autism.

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Speaker 2: That does translation. That does not mean you cannot intend

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Speaker 2: to do a crime, and it means you should not

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Speaker 2: escape punishment for that crime. I just I know the

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Speaker 2: parents are just fed up. Okay, there, that's how I

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Speaker 2: got down the rabbit hole. I had to unravel that

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Speaker 2: to figure out how I got to uh the files

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Speaker 2: on my bed. You're the one that brought that up. Okay,

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Speaker 2: I'm ready moving forward.

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Speaker 1: So, Gene Hackman, here's my first thought, because I would

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Speaker 1: go ahead and say it, so you can, you know,

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Speaker 1: talk to me again about my go.

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Speaker 2: To Oh lordy lord, the dog. Of course, this is

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Speaker 2: the dog. Go ahead.

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Speaker 1: Here's the reason. The dog didn't accidentally take any pills.

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Speaker 1: The dog didn't leave the door open. The dog didn't,

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Speaker 1: you know, leave himself in the home. So there's all

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Speaker 1: kind of key factors to me, starting with the doll.

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Speaker 2: I believe, just from what we know, which is not

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Speaker 2: a lot right now, I'm suspicions and this is not

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Speaker 2: going to be a wild criminal theory. I believe it

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Speaker 2: may have been from a carbon monoxide leak. That's what

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Speaker 2: I think based on what I know right now. Why

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Speaker 2: there is no exterior signs of violence. They weren't shot,

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Speaker 2: they weren't stabbed, they weren't bludding in the head. I'm

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Speaker 2: talking about Jene Hackman. There were no signs of theft,

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Speaker 2: nothing was missing. That's what I think as of right now.

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Speaker 2: And I'll tell you why. I think that. I had

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Speaker 2: a friend that largely lived on a marina in New

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Speaker 2: York at the I call it the Laguardian Marina. That's

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Speaker 2: not the right name, but you could see it when

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Speaker 2: you took off from Leguarty to look down and there

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Speaker 2: was some marina, so I was called it the Little

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Speaker 2: Guardian Marena. He I don't think he lived there, but

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Speaker 2: he was there all the time. I think he stayed

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Speaker 2: on his boat a lot. He his wife and two

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Speaker 2: of their adult children, were all found on the boat

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Speaker 2: dead around a card game from carbon monoxide. And I

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Speaker 2: remember analyzing that scene and why or why not it

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Speaker 2: could have been a crime. I was asked to, you know,

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Speaker 2: to come in and see what I thought about it,

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Speaker 2: and I didn't want it to be carbon monoxide because

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Speaker 2: I like to have someone to blame, because it just

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Speaker 2: makes you feel better. And I remember, I think it

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Speaker 2: goes back to a poem. I guess he didn't think

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Speaker 2: that was coming, And the name of the poem is

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Speaker 2: hapa He by Thomas Hardy is usually pretty bleeding eighteenth

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Speaker 2: century English author, but hap talks about I'd rather believe

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Speaker 2: that there was some evil, little godlike creature wishing torment

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Speaker 2: upon me, making my life hell, rather than it being happenstance, okay,

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Speaker 2: that everything is left up to chance, because the thought

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Speaker 2: that something horrible like that could just be by chance

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Speaker 2: is very neerving. You'd rather think, oh, this is what happened,

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Speaker 2: this is why it happened. And I think, as you

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Speaker 2: and I have discussed many times, is because people like

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Speaker 2: to insulate themselves against misfortune. In other words, you know

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Speaker 2: how you say I wouldn't have gone jogging at midnight.

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Speaker 2: I wouldn't have done this. I wouldn't have been alone

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Speaker 2: in a parking lot. I would have locked my doors.

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Speaker 2: I would have blah blah blah. I would have filled

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Speaker 2: in the blank because you feel like, Okay, that won't

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Speaker 2: happen to me, because I X and you can go

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Speaker 2: through life in your little bubble thinking it ain't gonna

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Speaker 2: happen to you. I learned that's not true when my

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Speaker 2: fiance was murdered. That said, I remember reading that poem.

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Speaker 2: I had dropped out of college when Keith was murdered.

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Speaker 2: I finally went back with the aim to go to

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Speaker 2: law school. And I remember my English professor, Kenneth Hammond,

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Speaker 2: what a voice, reading that out loud in class, and

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Speaker 2: it struck me and I was just sitting there and

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Speaker 2: it felt like I couldn't even move because that's what

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Speaker 2: it felt like with Keith's murder. It just happened. He

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Speaker 2: wasn't doing anything wrong. He's dead, right, same thing here,

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Speaker 2: carbon monoxide. I don't like that because I can't make

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Speaker 2: sense of it, and there's no one to blame, and

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Speaker 2: it's just like happenstance that it happened to you. See

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Speaker 2: what I'm saying. There's no rhyme or reason to it,

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Speaker 2: and I don't like that. I like analytical problems that

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Speaker 2: I can figure out and put back together and make

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Speaker 2: sense of it and then put it away in my

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Speaker 2: neat little world. I want that. And I think if

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Speaker 2: Gene Hackman that's what happened, that's just my guess right now.

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Speaker 2: Why Because analyzing the scene physically, there's no outward sign

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Speaker 2: of a struggle, although there were pills lying around, but

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Speaker 2: there's that's disturbing. That was disturbing. But they don't have

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Speaker 2: a knife, whether they don't have a gunshot, they're not

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Speaker 2: bludgeon they're not strangled. There's nothing taken so and the

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Speaker 2: dog too, So that would be a good explanation.

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Speaker 1: What do you think, Well, if it were my scene,

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Speaker 1: I mean, obviously the are going to bother me. I'm

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Speaker 1: going to focus on that because you would think the

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Speaker 1: wife was sixty four. If he were trying to get

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Speaker 1: some pills and spilled them, it seems like that would

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Speaker 1: have been cleaned up and they would have been put back,

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Speaker 1: because that's something he's going to need in certain time increments,

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Speaker 1: and you want to make sure he's got enough of

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Speaker 1: what he needs. The fact that they were in two

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Speaker 1: different places. I would factor that I want to know

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Speaker 1: where the dog was found.

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Speaker 2: But what do you mean they were in two different places.

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Speaker 1: They weren't found in the same bed, dad, right, so

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Speaker 1: bea they were in two separate rooms. I don't know

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Speaker 1: because they haven't said yet where the dog was found,

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Speaker 1: but that would be interesting to me too. So again,

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Speaker 1: he has clearly not been in good shape. I mean,

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Speaker 1: he's ninety something years old. It's not like he's a

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Speaker 1: young man. And I'm saying her being sixty four. Let's

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Speaker 1: just say, if this was my case, I would want

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Speaker 1: to know has she recently been diagnosed with something herself?

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Speaker 1: Is there's some reason she might have taken pills or

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Speaker 1: given him too many if she accidentally had something happened

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Speaker 1: to him, did she take her own life? I would

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Speaker 1: have to look at it, that's all. You don't have

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Speaker 1: a choice but to look at it. You and I

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Speaker 1: our adult life has been spent fighting evil. We won't

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Speaker 1: that bad person. We want to be able to grab

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Speaker 1: them and put them in prison so that we feel

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Speaker 1: like we are safer, We've made the world safer. The

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Speaker 1: idea that something just accidentally was that traumatic, it's hard

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Speaker 1: for me. So when I get to a scene, if

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Speaker 1: it is an accident or natural, I still start with

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Speaker 1: worst case scenario because that's my job and I have

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Speaker 1: to rule that out first.

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Speaker 2: So okay, you know he was on a very very

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Speaker 2: strict diet. His wife. His wife was dedicated to keeping

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Speaker 2: him healthy and life, and even when they would go

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Speaker 2: out to dinner, which was rare, she would monitor everything

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Speaker 2: he ate. She was very, not in a bad way,

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Speaker 2: very devoted. I mean, my dad lived to age eighty seven,

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Speaker 2: and I still blame the hospital. If he hadn't gone

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Speaker 2: to the hospital, I squere. I think he's still be

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Speaker 2: loved today. But that said, she when he had his

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Speaker 2: first coronary thrombosis in his thirties. By the way she

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Speaker 2: devoted herself, I mean she had a very stressful job.

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Speaker 2: She was a CFO of a manufacturing plant, but she

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Speaker 2: devoted herself to his longevity. He began working out five

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Speaker 2: times a week, and I mean I'd have to run

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Speaker 2: to keep up with him walking. Everything he ate was

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Speaker 2: cooked a certain way, just and that's how I believe

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Speaker 2: Hackman's wife was Betsy. So everything was about helping him

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Speaker 2: keep going. And I wonder, I just won about that

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Speaker 2: how that plays into what happened. I don't think they

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Speaker 2: intentionally died. I don't think that they committed suicide together.

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Speaker 2: I don't think this was a suicide pack by carbon monoxide.

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Speaker 2: I believe as of right now that it was accidental

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Speaker 2: carbon monoxide poisoning downstair.

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Speaker 1: But I'm just going to tell you if I get

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Speaker 1: to a welfare check and the door is a jar,

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Speaker 1: I'm concerned.

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Speaker 2: I agree, I agree, I'm just wondering. There is some

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Speaker 2: speculation that a car's motor, that car's engine may not

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Speaker 2: have been turned off, and that the exhaust went from

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Speaker 2: the garage into the house. Now with a door a jar,

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Speaker 2: that makes that less likely. But when that does happen,

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Speaker 2: you feel no pain, You don't know anything is wrong.

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Speaker 2: You just get sleepy and close your eyes. That's it.

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Speaker 2: Can we talk about Epstein? Now? Okay, this is bringing

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Speaker 2: up the whole specter of was he murdered? And I'll

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Speaker 2: tell you why, because a lot of people probably did

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Speaker 2: not want their information out there. You know, people kill

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Speaker 2: for all sorts of reasons that we think are illogical.

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Speaker 2: That we as we're sitting here, me having my hot tea,

337
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Speaker 2: thinking about going down and getting back to work. It's

338
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Speaker 2: easy first to sit back and go I would never

339
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Speaker 2: do with that. But you don't know what you would

340
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Speaker 2: do really. If you are in a corner, you're backed

341
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Speaker 2: into a corner. If you think I'm going to lose

342
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Speaker 2: my spouse, my children are are gonna hate me, I'm

343
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Speaker 2: gonna lose my job, I'm gonna lose everything if X happens,

344
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Speaker 2: whatever that may be. If people thought that and their

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Speaker 2: name because of whatever is in those documents.

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Speaker 1: Would they kill him?

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Speaker 2: Would they have him killed if they had the money

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Speaker 2: to do it. I mean, think about it.

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Speaker 1: Nancy, You and I know people that are in prison

350
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Speaker 1: right now killing somebody over a cigarette, exactly over their

351
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Speaker 1: entire reputation and home and family and stock portfolio.

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Speaker 2: Of course, now I understand that the new Epstein contact

353
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Speaker 2: list includes Alec Baldwin. Does it never end with him?

354
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Speaker 2: I mean, he shot a woman dead, He's still walking free,

355
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Speaker 2: Alec Baldwin with the wife with a fake Spanish accent,

356
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Speaker 2: pretending she grew up. Where did she say that she

357
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Speaker 2: grew up Spain? She didn't. I mean, what, that's a

358
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Speaker 2: whole other can of worms. I can't deal with people's

359
00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:40,399
Speaker 2: you know idiosyncracies when there's murder to be addressed. But

360
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Speaker 2: he apparently Alec Baldwin's on the list, Michael Jackson's on

361
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Speaker 2: the list, Minck Jagger or FK Junior's mom, Why is

362
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Speaker 2: she on the list? Just because you're on the list

363
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Speaker 2: does not mean that you are pimping little girls. It

364
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Speaker 2: means that you know he may have contacted you, or

365
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Speaker 2: you may have contacted him for what a reason. But

366
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Speaker 2: I guarantee you there are some people on that list,

367
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Speaker 2: not necessarily the ones I just named, like or of

368
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Speaker 2: case mother or any of them. That doesn't mean that

369
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Speaker 2: they are guilty of wrongdoing. But I guarantee you some

370
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Speaker 2: people on that massive list are guilty of wrongdoing. Yeah, absolutely,

371
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Speaker 2: I mean because look what happened to Prince Andrew. Why

372
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Speaker 2: would a prince be hanging around a pedophile? It destroyed him,

373
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Speaker 2: Look what it has done. So my point is, would

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Speaker 2: someone on that list see that information getting out as

375
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Speaker 2: motive for murder? As you said, people kill over a

376
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Speaker 2: cigarette and you know it's easy for us on the

377
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Speaker 2: outside of go oh well, they're inmates. He'll do anything.

378
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Speaker 2: I had a murder over a five dollars, right, well,

379
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Speaker 2: crack well, I say to say rock, but I didn't

380
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Speaker 2: know if anybody would know what that meant. A rock

381
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:01,080
Speaker 2: is a hunk of a crack. Okay, a rock A

382
00:24:01,080 --> 00:24:05,879
Speaker 2: five dollar rock. Murder over a five dollar rock. I

383
00:24:05,920 --> 00:24:09,600
Speaker 2: had a murder of I remember. The defendi's name was

384
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Speaker 2: Bruce Hodge. He murdered miss Leola's only son because he

385
00:24:18,359 --> 00:24:22,120
Speaker 2: owed a twenty five dollars drug debt. I had another guy,

386
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:26,840
Speaker 2: last name Zelder, shoot a mom who's sitting out in

387
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Speaker 2: her front yard in a lunge chair because he thought

388
00:24:32,400 --> 00:24:36,160
Speaker 2: she vouched for a drug dealer. It turned out she didn't.

389
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Speaker 2: She's just sitting there. She's dead right in her front

390
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 2: yard over what nothing. So yeah, I believe that people

391
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:48,240
Speaker 2: would kill rather than have their reputation destroyed. And you

392
00:24:48,280 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 2: know that richer and more powerful people get, the more

393
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:56,840
Speaker 2: they'll do to save that reputation and all that money.

394
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Speaker 1: You know something that he came out of the case.

395
00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:03,879
Speaker 1: You just mentioned something good that came out of it.

396
00:25:04,760 --> 00:25:07,120
Speaker 1: The lady that you mentioned that was killed because they

397
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,320
Speaker 1: thought she had snitched.

398
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Speaker 2: He voup, he vouped for a drug dealer. Like, yeah,

399
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:14,200
Speaker 2: his stuff is good, but what about.

400
00:25:13,960 --> 00:25:18,520
Speaker 1: It after that happened. We never went to one house

401
00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:21,880
Speaker 1: and knocked on the door and left. Ever again, if

402
00:25:21,920 --> 00:25:24,560
Speaker 1: we went into the cut, we went to six houses

403
00:25:24,600 --> 00:25:27,840
Speaker 1: and knocked on the door, so nobody knew who we

404
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:30,439
Speaker 1: were actually going to try to talk to. We were

405
00:25:30,480 --> 00:25:33,040
Speaker 1: acting like we were just doing a little you know,

406
00:25:34,680 --> 00:25:36,960
Speaker 1: a different little run at it if you will. And

407
00:25:37,000 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: sometimes we would take bogus wanted posters from even other counties,

408
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,359
Speaker 1: Hey have you seen this guy? And usually personally, I

409
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 1: would always take the child molester, because even drug dealers

410
00:25:47,359 --> 00:25:50,320
Speaker 1: hated child blisters, so you could talk to anybody say

411
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:52,760
Speaker 1: have you seen this guy? But let's say I was

412
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Speaker 1: going to try to find a rap victim and I

413
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,199
Speaker 1: know she was an apartment you know four B I

414
00:25:58,240 --> 00:26:02,879
Speaker 1: would go everybody around her, including her, so that nobody

415
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:03,880
Speaker 1: knew I was going to.

416
00:26:03,800 --> 00:26:07,280
Speaker 2: Talk to her. Mark we would sneak around the back doors,

417
00:26:08,080 --> 00:26:10,240
Speaker 2: and a great time to go would be any time

418
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:12,719
Speaker 2: before three o'clock because that's when the doppers wake up.

419
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:16,359
Speaker 2: Like the Empires, they are up all night and sleep

420
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Speaker 2: all day, So the best time to get them would

421
00:26:19,480 --> 00:26:22,359
Speaker 2: be about that time when they were just starting to

422
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,879
Speaker 2: wake up.

423
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Speaker 1: H So, oh, the good time, it's right the good times.

424
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Speaker 2: So I don't know where this is going, but it

425
00:26:32,680 --> 00:26:37,920
Speaker 2: has been staying there. Absolutely will be prosecutions that are

426
00:26:38,560 --> 00:26:42,159
Speaker 2: arise from the release of these documents. It leads me

427
00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,440
Speaker 2: to question why if there are prosecutions to come from it,

428
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:51,320
Speaker 2: then what have we been waiting for? What? Why are

429
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 2: they waiting for the documents Epstein documents to be public?

430
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:59,480
Speaker 2: If the FEDS have had them all this time, why

431
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:02,360
Speaker 2: haven't they on them. Why are they waiting for documents

432
00:27:02,359 --> 00:27:04,639
Speaker 2: to be made public before they do a prosecution?

433
00:27:05,480 --> 00:27:08,680
Speaker 1: Because it's bs that's why. Yeah, let's get old with it.

434
00:27:09,160 --> 00:27:12,080
Speaker 2: And again, I am not a Democrat, I am not

435
00:27:12,119 --> 00:27:16,000
Speaker 2: a Republican. I am just an American. But I'm curious

436
00:27:16,040 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 2: why has this already been released? Why is it now

437
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:26,280
Speaker 2: being released? What's been happening since Epstein died? But didn't

438
00:27:26,320 --> 00:27:28,760
Speaker 2: have to wait on him to die to get these documents.

439
00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,359
Speaker 2: If these documents prove wrongdoing, especially on children or six

440
00:27:33,400 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 2: trafficking women, why has this not been released and investigated?

441
00:27:37,280 --> 00:27:42,720
Speaker 2: So what and who has been so important that it

442
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:44,760
Speaker 2: be protected? And why?

443
00:27:45,520 --> 00:27:47,760
Speaker 1: And that's the answer of sugar right there.

444
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:50,159
Speaker 2: So what do you think I think is.

445
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:55,720
Speaker 1: The largest child exploitation ring in history, and it should

446
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,320
Speaker 1: have never taken this long. You need that first domino

447
00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,199
Speaker 1: to fall, and it will lead to the rest of them, period.

448
00:28:02,359 --> 00:28:05,000
Speaker 1: We know it. That house of cars needs to come

449
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:09,200
Speaker 1: down prosecute the first one. Like you always said to us,

450
00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,120
Speaker 1: I will never forget you would say that courthouse is public.

451
00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:17,040
Speaker 1: Those doors should stay open. Everybody has a right to

452
00:28:17,080 --> 00:28:19,359
Speaker 1: come in here and sit and hear what this person

453
00:28:19,520 --> 00:28:23,440
Speaker 1: is accused of, and it should be known. Well, that's

454
00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,680
Speaker 1: how I feel. None of this should be a secret.

455
00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: Your name being out there shouldn't be a secret at all.

456
00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,600
Speaker 2: Well, I'll tell you this. I don't know a lot

457
00:28:31,760 --> 00:28:36,000
Speaker 2: about the new US Attorney General, Pam Bondy, but she

458
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:39,520
Speaker 2: is right that all of this needs to be released,

459
00:28:39,680 --> 00:28:46,040
Speaker 2: all of the Epstein files. And I'm curious as to

460
00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:49,560
Speaker 2: why the FBI hasn't already released them a full and

461
00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:54,960
Speaker 2: complete set of Epstein documents, Because whether you like it

462
00:28:55,120 --> 00:28:57,600
Speaker 2: or not, whether the defans agree with Trump or like

463
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,920
Speaker 2: Trump or hate Trump, when she says do this, you

464
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:07,680
Speaker 2: do it unless you believe it violates the law. And

465
00:29:07,760 --> 00:29:11,600
Speaker 2: this does not violate the law releasing these documents. So

466
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,800
Speaker 2: I'm curious, very curious why they were not released already

467
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,440
Speaker 2: and who was being protected. That's what I want to know.

468
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:21,800
Speaker 1: That's the question.

469
00:29:22,480 --> 00:29:26,320
Speaker 2: Amen, Yeah, that is the question, and everybody's I don't

470
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: think that it should have been any document should have

471
00:29:28,840 --> 00:29:33,400
Speaker 2: been released to a certain group of political influencers, which

472
00:29:33,440 --> 00:29:37,720
Speaker 2: apparently it was. I disagree with that, But that said,

473
00:29:37,840 --> 00:29:41,000
Speaker 2: the whole thing needs to be released. And I can

474
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:43,120
Speaker 2: tell you this, heads would roll if I had anything

475
00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:46,800
Speaker 2: to do with it, if there are prosecutions to be

476
00:29:46,920 --> 00:29:51,600
Speaker 2: had and victims to be represented that were not so

477
00:29:51,680 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 2: I'm anxiously awaiting to find out who was being protected.

478
00:29:57,320 --> 00:30:00,960
Speaker 2: Don't you hate? Don't you hate? Can you find out

479
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:07,880
Speaker 2: people within the system have been mishandling cases or a wrongdoing?

480
00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,960
Speaker 2: I'll never forget. I bet you remember this. I've told

481
00:30:12,960 --> 00:30:15,160
Speaker 2: you this before, and I'll try to be brief. I

482
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:18,600
Speaker 2: worked on now they call it sex trafficking, right, but

483
00:30:18,720 --> 00:30:22,280
Speaker 2: then it was constatutory rape. A little fourteen year old

484
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:26,520
Speaker 2: girl had been pimped, okay, and I was working the case,

485
00:30:27,440 --> 00:30:30,840
Speaker 2: and I was out on the street. We were out

486
00:30:31,000 --> 00:30:34,920
Speaker 2: trying to find witnesses, We were trying to find the girl.

487
00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,160
Speaker 2: The girl had vanished anyway, We worked the case. I

488
00:30:39,160 --> 00:30:42,760
Speaker 2: remember finding I didn't find her. My three undercover vice founder.

489
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:47,719
Speaker 2: We went over to a flophouse off Stewart Avenue and

490
00:30:47,720 --> 00:30:50,040
Speaker 2: they said she's in there. I went in there. I

491
00:30:50,120 --> 00:30:51,800
Speaker 2: looked at the women that were in the room and

492
00:30:51,920 --> 00:30:54,040
Speaker 2: came out like, there's not a girl in there. Where

493
00:30:54,120 --> 00:30:58,520
Speaker 2: is she went? She's the one in those white boots.

494
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:02,240
Speaker 2: Went back. The woman looked like she was thirty five,

495
00:31:02,360 --> 00:31:05,920
Speaker 2: thirty seven years old. She was fourteen. She had on

496
00:31:06,040 --> 00:31:11,560
Speaker 2: this crazy weed, false eyelashes. I mean, I look and

497
00:31:11,720 --> 00:31:15,240
Speaker 2: it was the girl. Anyway. By the time I got

498
00:31:15,240 --> 00:31:18,040
Speaker 2: her up on the stand, which was a debacle. By

499
00:31:18,080 --> 00:31:20,560
Speaker 2: the way getting her to the stand, she ran away.

500
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:23,680
Speaker 2: She was afraid, blah blah blah. She looked like a

501
00:31:23,800 --> 00:31:26,520
Speaker 2: choir girl. Okay by the time I got a hold

502
00:31:26,560 --> 00:31:31,800
Speaker 2: of her anyway, so which she should have been if

503
00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:36,000
Speaker 2: this had not happened to her. But got the rest

504
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 2: of the story. My three vice guys that I worked

505
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:43,720
Speaker 2: so hard with every day. So I was coming in

506
00:31:43,760 --> 00:31:47,640
Speaker 2: from an rayment calendar. I threw my stuff down. Somebody

507
00:31:47,680 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: had a TV going. I walked by it, and you

508
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:52,440
Speaker 2: know how this federal court where they don't have cameras

509
00:31:52,440 --> 00:31:56,200
Speaker 2: in the courtroom. Sketches are so terrible, you can't everybody

510
00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:58,520
Speaker 2: looks like Quasimoto. I don't know who these people are.

511
00:31:59,240 --> 00:32:03,280
Speaker 2: What bottom like, oh whoa, whoa wait wait Atla's familiar?

512
00:32:03,760 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: Who is that? And it went across the screen. They

513
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:11,120
Speaker 2: were my vice guys, my vice guys. We're in oors

514
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:17,320
Speaker 2: jumpsuits in shekels in federal court. Like what happened. They

515
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:23,040
Speaker 2: had been with others, stinging dopers, like when they would

516
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:26,520
Speaker 2: raid dopers or Shane drug lords. They take their money,

517
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:30,920
Speaker 2: they take their gold chains, their outronment, plasmas creeds. Yeah,

518
00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 2: and I just went to my office. I shut the

519
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:35,640
Speaker 2: door and I just sat there because I had worked

520
00:32:35,640 --> 00:32:39,760
Speaker 2: with them every day, had lunch with them at the

521
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:42,240
Speaker 2: what was at the Southeast megabar by the courthouse. It

522
00:32:42,360 --> 00:32:45,600
Speaker 2: was three a meet and three, you know, every day

523
00:32:46,320 --> 00:32:52,720
Speaker 2: for months, and I couldn't believe it. So I remember

524
00:32:52,760 --> 00:32:58,160
Speaker 2: that feeling knowing that somebody you trusted that represents the

525
00:32:58,280 --> 00:33:03,680
Speaker 2: state have been doing something very very wrong. And that's

526
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,640
Speaker 2: how I feel right now about these Epstein piles.

527
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:10,120
Speaker 1: I agreed, yep. I remember that case that was horrible

528
00:33:10,560 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: and it blew so many cases up. Yeah, it Oh,

529
00:33:14,160 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: so many guilty people. That was a horrible, horrible situation.

530
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:21,920
Speaker 2: Yep, yep. And I had and you know, the Green sleuth.

531
00:33:22,120 --> 00:33:23,840
Speaker 2: I had no idea that they were on to take

532
00:33:24,480 --> 00:33:27,400
Speaker 2: just you know, when I think back on it, they

533
00:33:27,400 --> 00:33:30,480
Speaker 2: always had a lot of cash, I think, but I

534
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,280
Speaker 2: thought that was from their sake. I actually didn't think

535
00:33:32,320 --> 00:33:34,680
Speaker 2: about it of their second jobs. Because we would take

536
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:37,000
Speaker 2: out the money to pay at Megabar, they would have

537
00:33:37,080 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 2: a crap ton of cash their wallets. I'm like, whoa

538
00:33:43,720 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 2: man get that paycheck in cash? Okay whatever? Oh Cheryl,

539
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:53,640
Speaker 2: my goodness, Okay, I can't even get back to coburg Er.

540
00:33:54,120 --> 00:33:55,720
Speaker 2: I'm worn out with Epstein right now.

541
00:33:55,720 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 1: We had a born out and listen, prayers for thee continued,

542
00:33:59,400 --> 00:34:03,080
Speaker 1: continued daily and just let her sister know if y'all

543
00:34:03,120 --> 00:34:06,719
Speaker 1: need anything, holler, well, I can tell you they need something.

544
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:14,560
Speaker 2: They need those prayers. Look, remember this, the Lord loves

545
00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:17,640
Speaker 2: us sinner. That's the only reason I ever get hurt.

546
00:34:20,239 --> 00:34:23,080
Speaker 2: He loves a sinner, let me tell you, so keep

547
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,200
Speaker 2: those prayers coming, Cheryl.

548
00:34:24,640 --> 00:34:29,080
Speaker 1: Absolutely all right, honey, I adore you and I'll talk

549
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:29,560
Speaker 1: to you soon.

550
00:34:29,840 --> 00:34:30,799
Speaker 2: Okay. Bye, dear,