1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:27,600 Speaker 1: Ridiculous History is a production of I Heart Radio. Welcome 2 00:00:27,640 --> 00:00:31,280 Speaker 1: to the show, Ridiculous Historians. As always, thank you so 3 00:00:31,480 --> 00:00:36,080 Speaker 1: much for tuning in. Quick disclaimer at the top. We 4 00:00:36,240 --> 00:00:39,080 Speaker 1: are a family show, but there are some parts of 5 00:00:39,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 1: this story that are a little, shall we say, racy? 6 00:00:43,120 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 1: What do you think? A little salacious? Perhaps a lingering touch, 7 00:00:48,200 --> 00:00:51,000 Speaker 1: maybe a little too long on the cheek, a little 8 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: too familiar. It's true. Those romans knew how to party. 9 00:00:55,240 --> 00:00:58,160 Speaker 1: Let me tell you. Yes, oh oh, and I'm Ben 10 00:00:58,560 --> 00:01:01,320 Speaker 1: oh and I'm no, and I will tell you. We will, 11 00:01:01,360 --> 00:01:06,280 Speaker 1: in fact tell you together along with superproducer Crazy Pegram. 12 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: Are we talking like Ridiculous History after dark? Right now? 13 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 1: What's what's going on? Yeah? Time, this is like the 14 00:01:11,880 --> 00:01:15,360 Speaker 1: Red Shoe Diaries of Ridiculous History. So we got David 15 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:19,080 Speaker 1: Ducovney on a beach not to read one of our letters. Okay, Yeah, 16 00:01:19,160 --> 00:01:22,680 Speaker 1: it's true. Folks. Before we get into today's episode, you 17 00:01:22,760 --> 00:01:25,560 Speaker 1: might be wondering, Hey, guys, why did you decide to 18 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:29,680 Speaker 1: do uh something a little more risque today? Uh? And 19 00:01:29,720 --> 00:01:33,960 Speaker 1: that's because we are you know, um, we're dead set 20 00:01:34,160 --> 00:01:37,560 Speaker 1: on on ruining our reputation. We just got famous. We 21 00:01:37,640 --> 00:01:40,399 Speaker 1: got to write up in a Vanity Fair uh that 22 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,559 Speaker 1: I initially thought described us as three famous shipwrecks because 23 00:01:44,600 --> 00:01:50,240 Speaker 1: I just skimmed over it. And uh uh shout out 24 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:54,440 Speaker 1: to shout out to everybody who wrote in and and 25 00:01:54,520 --> 00:01:57,480 Speaker 1: let us know that it was very kind. It must 26 00:01:57,480 --> 00:02:00,920 Speaker 1: have been a slow news day at that publication out. Um, 27 00:02:01,000 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: but we we appreciate it, and we thank everybody who's 28 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:09,240 Speaker 1: affiliated with our show in this episode. But of course, uh, 29 00:02:09,600 --> 00:02:12,680 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you again. I don't know, so it 30 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: felt like maybe our next logical step now that we've 31 00:02:15,880 --> 00:02:21,800 Speaker 1: reached the heights of something. Yeah, yeah, I mean, no 32 00:02:21,840 --> 00:02:25,840 Speaker 1: better time than getting a little minute notoriety than the 33 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,280 Speaker 1: torpedo your whole career with a single episode in a 34 00:02:29,320 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: single fell swoop. But also regarding that Vanity Fair right 35 00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:35,360 Speaker 1: up also shout out to dress the History of Fashion, 36 00:02:35,400 --> 00:02:38,600 Speaker 1: which also made that list of ten history podcast to 37 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:41,320 Speaker 1: check out. And honestly, there was some on that list 38 00:02:41,360 --> 00:02:43,440 Speaker 1: that I was not familiar with, and I look forward 39 00:02:43,440 --> 00:02:47,959 Speaker 1: to checking out myself. Yes, yes, agreed, and well said. 40 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:52,480 Speaker 1: So you might be wondering, how are these guys going 41 00:02:52,560 --> 00:02:56,280 Speaker 1: to ruin their show for us today? Uh, well, we're 42 00:02:56,320 --> 00:03:02,320 Speaker 1: going to ask for some help from the ancients from Rome. Uh, 43 00:03:02,600 --> 00:03:05,680 Speaker 1: we are going to ask for some help from a 44 00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:09,639 Speaker 1: guy named Emperor Tiberius. You know, in these are days 45 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:16,120 Speaker 1: of reality television, uh being you know, a deranged shipwreck 46 00:03:16,440 --> 00:03:19,720 Speaker 1: of debauchery is is a legitimate business and a lot 47 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,320 Speaker 1: of people do very well with it. But this guy 48 00:03:22,400 --> 00:03:25,639 Speaker 1: was putting in the work way before cable. You know, 49 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,320 Speaker 1: we don't get to use this word too often in 50 00:03:28,680 --> 00:03:32,960 Speaker 1: modern English, but this guy's debauched. He is debauched. He 51 00:03:33,080 --> 00:03:38,280 Speaker 1: has twisted, uh debauch, A bit of a pervert, definitely 52 00:03:38,480 --> 00:03:44,320 Speaker 1: exhibited some some kinky behavior as a as a human being. Also, 53 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 1: you know, one in a long line of Roman emperors 54 00:03:49,080 --> 00:03:53,760 Speaker 1: who were just not particularly great people. Yeah, spoiler alert there. Uh. 55 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:58,440 Speaker 1: He preceded directly Caligula, one of our favorite debauched emperors. 56 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,800 Speaker 1: But he came by that honestly. Um, he had a 57 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,200 Speaker 1: pretty pretty great role model in the debauchery department. Uh. 58 00:04:04,320 --> 00:04:08,480 Speaker 1: Tiberius was born on November sixty two b c E. 59 00:04:08,960 --> 00:04:13,440 Speaker 1: On an area called the Palatine hill Um. He was 60 00:04:13,600 --> 00:04:17,880 Speaker 1: the son of Tiberius Claudius Nero, who was a Roman 61 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:22,120 Speaker 1: key case caster. How do you say this word? Ben 62 00:04:22,279 --> 00:04:24,960 Speaker 1: q u A E S t o or I know 63 00:04:25,040 --> 00:04:28,120 Speaker 1: prey to ur, I don't know caster, is it key stir? 64 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,520 Speaker 1: Perhaps that would be appropriate. Yeah, that's uh. It's kind 65 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:36,279 Speaker 1: of like a money man or a comptroller. This is 66 00:04:36,320 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 1: a general term for officials who had some sort of 67 00:04:40,279 --> 00:04:45,440 Speaker 1: hand in or agency over public revenue and expenditure. So 68 00:04:45,560 --> 00:04:47,720 Speaker 1: it's it's a good job if you can get it. 69 00:04:47,920 --> 00:04:51,480 Speaker 1: This guy's full name, by the way, Tiberius Caesar, Divvy, Augusty, 70 00:04:51,720 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 1: Philius Augustus, so you can see why they called him, 71 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:59,120 Speaker 1: you know, Tiberius or maybe Tibo or big T for short. Wait, 72 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,680 Speaker 1: he had an August and then Augustus, what's why it's 73 00:05:02,720 --> 00:05:05,919 Speaker 1: a weird flex double augustin man, you know. Uh, in 74 00:05:05,960 --> 00:05:09,680 Speaker 1: the days before television, people had much longer names. So 75 00:05:10,040 --> 00:05:12,919 Speaker 1: and also he's he's royalty. Absolutely. But it's really funny. 76 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,719 Speaker 1: I grew up in a town called Augusta, Um, which is, 77 00:05:15,920 --> 00:05:18,760 Speaker 1: you know, where the Master's golf tournament takes place, and 78 00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:21,680 Speaker 1: also where James Brown was born, and he lived nearby 79 00:05:21,720 --> 00:05:24,080 Speaker 1: and until he passed away. But it's funny. Every time 80 00:05:24,080 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 1: I've met people not from Georgia, they always pronounced Augusta 81 00:05:27,960 --> 00:05:31,279 Speaker 1: Augusta And I've always been kind of blown away by 82 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,719 Speaker 1: that because I'm like, have you not heard of Augustus? 83 00:05:33,760 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: Like it's it seems like a weird stretch to to 84 00:05:36,400 --> 00:05:39,599 Speaker 1: assume that you and it's a hard awe sound. Um, 85 00:05:39,839 --> 00:05:41,599 Speaker 1: So just putting that out there as it was a 86 00:05:41,600 --> 00:05:44,480 Speaker 1: little bit of a weird anachronism from folks not from 87 00:05:44,760 --> 00:05:47,680 Speaker 1: from my neck of the woods. Yeah, like pronouncing Nevada 88 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,919 Speaker 1: or Nevada. Uh, that's a good example of that. I 89 00:05:50,960 --> 00:05:54,359 Speaker 1: remember I was um or As in Ireland one time 90 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:58,400 Speaker 1: and this cab driver who was a beautiful, shady dude. 91 00:05:58,520 --> 00:06:01,039 Speaker 1: I want to write a story about him. He uh. 92 00:06:01,160 --> 00:06:03,480 Speaker 1: He was like, you know where, I'm not going to 93 00:06:03,560 --> 00:06:05,200 Speaker 1: do the accent because we're on air, but he's like, 94 00:06:05,560 --> 00:06:07,440 Speaker 1: where where are you all from? And you know, we 95 00:06:07,480 --> 00:06:11,880 Speaker 1: said Atlanta, Georgia and he goes, oh, yeah, why And 96 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:13,920 Speaker 1: I had never asked how had somebody asked me why 97 00:06:14,080 --> 00:06:17,200 Speaker 1: I lived? Like why am I from there? And uh? 98 00:06:17,320 --> 00:06:19,520 Speaker 1: And then he said, you know, I would never travel 99 00:06:19,600 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 1: to Georgia except if James Brown was still alive, because 100 00:06:23,760 --> 00:06:27,040 Speaker 1: that's the thing about me. I'm irish. I love James Brown, 101 00:06:27,240 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: and I love the rolling Stones and that's the only 102 00:06:29,520 --> 00:06:31,800 Speaker 1: reason I would go to your state. But James Brown 103 00:06:31,920 --> 00:06:35,160 Speaker 1: is dead anyway, here's your hotel. That was literally how 104 00:06:35,200 --> 00:06:40,039 Speaker 1: he talked. Yeah, people love people love some JB. It's funny. Um. 105 00:06:40,080 --> 00:06:42,880 Speaker 1: There was a stand up routine that Chris Rock did 106 00:06:43,480 --> 00:06:45,920 Speaker 1: when he was performing in Augusta, and he referred to 107 00:06:45,960 --> 00:06:49,839 Speaker 1: it um referencing the Masters and James Brown as the 108 00:06:49,880 --> 00:06:53,799 Speaker 1: whitest and blackest place in America. UM. So I thought 109 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:56,840 Speaker 1: that was pretty clever. But but back to ancient Rome. 110 00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:01,440 Speaker 1: Um as as we know, Julius Caesar now got stabbed 111 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:06,360 Speaker 1: to death pretty brutally by the entire Roman Senate. They 112 00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:07,800 Speaker 1: all had to have a hand in that, so it 113 00:07:07,839 --> 00:07:10,200 Speaker 1: could be like a quorum of murder. So weird, like 114 00:07:10,240 --> 00:07:12,440 Speaker 1: why don't they name why did they name a salad 115 00:07:12,480 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: after the guy? I think we should be calling all 116 00:07:14,840 --> 00:07:18,240 Speaker 1: knives Caesar's now. Yeah, no, I completely agree. And and 117 00:07:18,280 --> 00:07:22,840 Speaker 1: after this event, Rome was absolutely in disarray. There were 118 00:07:22,880 --> 00:07:26,160 Speaker 1: these factions that emerged. Mark Anthony on the side of 119 00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 1: uh Caesar, like you know, trying to I guess, defend 120 00:07:30,200 --> 00:07:34,760 Speaker 1: his honor or whatever. And Tiberius his family fought alongside 121 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:38,720 Speaker 1: Mark Anthony. But then Octavia and you guys might remember 122 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:40,640 Speaker 1: Ben I'm not sure if you watched this, but Rome 123 00:07:40,760 --> 00:07:44,200 Speaker 1: on HBO, all of this was dramatized pretty beautifully, not 124 00:07:44,360 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: entirely sure how historically accurately, but it's a it's a 125 00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:51,200 Speaker 1: really fun show. Um. But octavian was a character you 126 00:07:51,280 --> 00:07:52,760 Speaker 1: kind of grew up with because he was sort of 127 00:07:52,800 --> 00:07:57,280 Speaker 1: a boy king Um and uh it turned in his favor, 128 00:07:57,400 --> 00:08:02,080 Speaker 1: and then Tiberius and his family were essentially forced to flee, 129 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,160 Speaker 1: and they did that thing to Sicily, and that's when 130 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:11,920 Speaker 1: Octavian Um named himself Caesar Augustus, and he became the 131 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:14,760 Speaker 1: first legitimate last I don't know if legitimus didory word, 132 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:18,480 Speaker 1: but the first in name emperor of rome Um. And 133 00:08:18,520 --> 00:08:22,440 Speaker 1: then when Tiberius was three years old, Augustus, the new emperor, 134 00:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,240 Speaker 1: gave his family a pass and granted them amnesty and 135 00:08:26,280 --> 00:08:28,760 Speaker 1: they were able to come back out of hiding. They 136 00:08:28,800 --> 00:08:31,800 Speaker 1: actually went to Greece after Sicily, so they were kicking 137 00:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: it in Greece at this point. And so when Tiberius 138 00:08:35,040 --> 00:08:40,320 Speaker 1: said his folks come back to Rome, Caesar Augustus, who 139 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:43,079 Speaker 1: was being advertised as the first true emperor of Rome 140 00:08:43,160 --> 00:08:46,320 Speaker 1: at the time he notices the family, Like, clearly he 141 00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:49,000 Speaker 1: likes them a bit because he allowed them to return, 142 00:08:49,760 --> 00:08:53,760 Speaker 1: But it's a little bit sleazy because he's super into 143 00:08:53,840 --> 00:08:58,320 Speaker 1: Tiberius's mom, Livia. As a matter of fact, he forces 144 00:08:58,400 --> 00:09:01,840 Speaker 1: Tiberius's dad to give up the marriage and thirty eight 145 00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,600 Speaker 1: b c. And he marries Livia and he this makes 146 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,760 Speaker 1: Tiberius one of the Emperor's adopted kids. So all of 147 00:09:10,800 --> 00:09:14,640 Speaker 1: a sudden he is going from like running to Sicily, 148 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,360 Speaker 1: running to Greece on the lamb, to being the son 149 00:09:18,679 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 1: of the emperor. So he gets all the bells and 150 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:26,120 Speaker 1: whistles that emperors get. His education is uh much better 151 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:29,360 Speaker 1: than a lot of other you know, uh, a lot 152 00:09:29,400 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: of other people at the time his age. He learns philosophy, rhetoric, 153 00:09:33,320 --> 00:09:38,080 Speaker 1: battle strategy. He gets like every day with the Emperor 154 00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:43,080 Speaker 1: is like bring your kid to work day, because Augustus 155 00:09:43,240 --> 00:09:46,280 Speaker 1: is like, hey, you know, uh, the Tiberius, come with 156 00:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,440 Speaker 1: me to this parade. I want you to see how 157 00:09:49,559 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: everybody loves being out afraid they are. Uh. And you know, 158 00:09:53,800 --> 00:09:56,800 Speaker 1: one day maybe this will happen to you, a little buddy. 159 00:09:56,800 --> 00:10:00,520 Speaker 1: Oh absolutely, and it was destined to be so. Um. 160 00:10:00,640 --> 00:10:05,000 Speaker 1: He really took a keen interest in those battle strategy lessons, 161 00:10:05,160 --> 00:10:07,720 Speaker 1: which is definitely not something like the clubs would have 162 00:10:07,760 --> 00:10:10,680 Speaker 1: access to. UH. It was very much a package of 163 00:10:10,800 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: education that was groomed specifically for a young ruler to 164 00:10:14,880 --> 00:10:18,720 Speaker 1: be UM. And he exhibited a lot of cunning in 165 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 1: military affairs, and he fought in Gaul UH and really 166 00:10:23,280 --> 00:10:27,600 Speaker 1: made a reputation for himself as a military man. UM. 167 00:10:27,640 --> 00:10:32,280 Speaker 1: And he started into a career of public service. I 168 00:10:32,280 --> 00:10:36,040 Speaker 1: guess you could call it. I've always found Roman UH 169 00:10:36,320 --> 00:10:39,959 Speaker 1: leaders to not be in particular service to the public. 170 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:42,480 Speaker 1: A lot of it is very self serving UH and 171 00:10:42,559 --> 00:10:46,280 Speaker 1: self aggrandizing, but we'll call it civic career, right, UM. 172 00:10:46,320 --> 00:10:52,240 Speaker 1: And so he initially was kind of a friend of 173 00:10:52,240 --> 00:10:57,240 Speaker 1: the people. He defended and prosecuted at court, which was 174 00:10:57,360 --> 00:11:00,160 Speaker 1: you know, with an audience in front of the Senate UM. 175 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:04,640 Speaker 1: And he began to uh kind of make some changes 176 00:11:04,720 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 1: that were geared towards sort of helping the common uh citizens. 177 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:13,360 Speaker 1: He reorganized the supply chain of grain UM and was 178 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,640 Speaker 1: able to kind of solve some problems with the way 179 00:11:16,720 --> 00:11:19,520 Speaker 1: slaves were kept, which is not something that a ruler 180 00:11:19,559 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 1: would typically like concern themselves with. Apparently in the slave 181 00:11:22,880 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: barracks there were really poor conditions uh, and free people 182 00:11:28,480 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 1: were being detained there um and draft dodgers were often 183 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:37,120 Speaker 1: um trying to pose as slaves, which is interesting. And 184 00:11:37,160 --> 00:11:39,920 Speaker 1: he put a stop to all that um, and he 185 00:11:40,040 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 1: really started to ramp up his career as a politician. Um. 186 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:46,320 Speaker 1: What do we say? It was again ben key store 187 00:11:46,520 --> 00:11:50,240 Speaker 1: k store k store kse store k triste. He became 188 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,480 Speaker 1: a k store, a prey tour and ultimately a console 189 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 1: at a very very ripe young age and was given 190 00:11:58,040 --> 00:12:02,760 Speaker 1: a tribune to oversee for a period of five years. 191 00:12:03,160 --> 00:12:06,079 Speaker 1: And this is a great resource on thought code dot 192 00:12:06,120 --> 00:12:09,000 Speaker 1: com and then gives us some nice background where using 193 00:12:09,000 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: on Tiberius. I'd like to also give a shout out 194 00:12:11,840 --> 00:12:16,960 Speaker 1: to history Collection dot co, which talks about the rule 195 00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:19,839 Speaker 1: of Tiberius. Now, you know, there are a lot of 196 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:24,120 Speaker 1: circumstances that lead him to become emperor. And I don't 197 00:12:24,120 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: know about you all, but I'd like to get to 198 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,719 Speaker 1: the good juicy stuff with his reign. So let let 199 00:12:29,760 --> 00:12:32,360 Speaker 1: me just give you what they call the high level 200 00:12:32,400 --> 00:12:36,280 Speaker 1: download and Corporate America give it to us. Have shaved it. 201 00:12:36,320 --> 00:12:38,600 Speaker 1: I'm wearing his suit jacket. So I feel like he's 202 00:12:38,600 --> 00:12:41,800 Speaker 1: on brand to say that now. So he is now 203 00:12:42,559 --> 00:12:45,839 Speaker 1: kind of in line for the throat. Maybe he's fourth 204 00:12:45,840 --> 00:12:48,600 Speaker 1: the line, maybe he's fifth, but at that point he 205 00:12:48,679 --> 00:12:52,960 Speaker 1: doesn't have a real good chance of becoming emperor in 206 00:12:53,400 --> 00:12:57,240 Speaker 1: normal times. However, these are not normal times. Uh. Several 207 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,600 Speaker 1: people die, and every time someone die, he moves a 208 00:13:00,600 --> 00:13:04,280 Speaker 1: little bit closer to the throne to ascending to emperor. 209 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,560 Speaker 1: And it's weird because eventually it becomes clear that Caesar 210 00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:14,559 Speaker 1: Augustus was grooming another person to take over as Emperor um. 211 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:20,200 Speaker 1: But this person, Agrippa, dies when he's fifty years old, 212 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: and so after a couple of other deaths, eventually Caesar 213 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:27,720 Speaker 1: Augusta has to go to Tiberius and you know, officially 214 00:13:28,200 --> 00:13:31,080 Speaker 1: adopted him to make him next in line for the 215 00:13:31,080 --> 00:13:34,920 Speaker 1: throne with the following phrase, uh not especially a loving 216 00:13:35,000 --> 00:13:39,400 Speaker 1: father's phrase. He says, this I do for reasons of state, 217 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,319 Speaker 1: and I love you, my new son. What is it 218 00:13:43,480 --> 00:13:46,800 Speaker 1: new grandson, nephew? Yeah, that's right. He didn't add any 219 00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:48,520 Speaker 1: of that, you know, he really did. And I'm just 220 00:13:48,600 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: trying to help the help the young lad out um 221 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:53,480 Speaker 1: because obviously I don't know, maybe it was him not 222 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:56,360 Speaker 1: feeling loved enough that caused him to become the monster 223 00:13:56,400 --> 00:13:59,520 Speaker 1: that we will soon describe him to to have become. Um, 224 00:13:59,600 --> 00:14:05,800 Speaker 1: he was given tribunition powers for ten years then and 225 00:14:06,000 --> 00:14:17,640 Speaker 1: adopted his nephew Germanicus to be his heir. So now 226 00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:21,840 Speaker 1: he is uh, now he's riding high, right, and he 227 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:25,840 Speaker 1: kind of just has to wait for his weirdly distant 228 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:30,240 Speaker 1: stepfather to die or adoptive father. Uh. He goes off 229 00:14:30,280 --> 00:14:33,200 Speaker 1: and he still fights battles because that's what he liked doing. 230 00:14:33,320 --> 00:14:37,440 Speaker 1: He's campaigning in what is modern day Germany. He's knocking 231 00:14:37,480 --> 00:14:41,800 Speaker 1: down rebellions, he's shoring up the borders of the empire. 232 00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 1: Now like as the Emperor is getting closer to death, 233 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,200 Speaker 1: he is getting more and more legal constitutional power that 234 00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: puts him on par with the emperor. When Augustus dies 235 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:58,240 Speaker 1: auguste a D. They read his will. It confirms that 236 00:14:58,320 --> 00:15:03,400 Speaker 1: Tiberius is the emperor, and it all becomes official September eighteenth, 237 00:15:03,680 --> 00:15:06,480 Speaker 1: just a few days later, fourteen eight D. And at 238 00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,760 Speaker 1: first he's coming, he's like a sheriff in a Wild 239 00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,400 Speaker 1: West film. He's coming to clean this town up, and 240 00:15:12,480 --> 00:15:15,320 Speaker 1: he hates astrologers. That's my favorite part. It is it 241 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,080 Speaker 1: is pretty funny. Yeah, but he had already kind of 242 00:15:17,120 --> 00:15:19,760 Speaker 1: exhibited some of that stuff with the whole like you know, 243 00:15:19,880 --> 00:15:22,840 Speaker 1: helping with the grain distribution so people could be fed, 244 00:15:22,920 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 1: and you know, helping you know, clear up conditions for 245 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: the slave quarters and all of that stuff. Um. I 246 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,520 Speaker 1: mean that that's not like the most magnanimous thing in 247 00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,120 Speaker 1: the whole world. But the fact is he demonstrated that 248 00:15:33,160 --> 00:15:36,680 Speaker 1: he kind of cared about normal people. UM. So he 249 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:41,520 Speaker 1: apparently had a real burning hatred for sick offense, which 250 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:43,160 Speaker 1: is a word that I love because it just is 251 00:15:43,200 --> 00:15:45,800 Speaker 1: fun to say. And obviously that is a thing that 252 00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:49,120 Speaker 1: a lot of these kinds of rulers are surrounded by, 253 00:15:49,200 --> 00:15:52,040 Speaker 1: and he had no time for that. Um. So he 254 00:15:52,360 --> 00:15:54,840 Speaker 1: uh did not surround himself with yes men. He was 255 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:58,680 Speaker 1: very much in control of his own decisions, and he 256 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:03,800 Speaker 1: really try to check some of these just gross abuses 257 00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 1: and mishandling of UH funds that had caused, you know, um, 258 00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:11,600 Speaker 1: the lives of normal citizens to be really disrupted in 259 00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: favor of you know, rulers living high on the hog um. 260 00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:19,680 Speaker 1: As we know, there were Egyptian connections with UH with 261 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,240 Speaker 1: with Rome because of Mark Anthony and Cleopatra specifically, and 262 00:16:23,280 --> 00:16:25,880 Speaker 1: so there were all of these kind of little cells, 263 00:16:25,920 --> 00:16:29,520 Speaker 1: I guess, these Egyptian cults and also Jewish cults in Rome. 264 00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,920 Speaker 1: And he disbanded those, uh likely with a very heavy hand. 265 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,760 Speaker 1: And he also, like you said, Ben, he banished all 266 00:16:37,800 --> 00:16:42,000 Speaker 1: of the astrologers because he found them to be tricksters 267 00:16:42,040 --> 00:16:46,080 Speaker 1: and and not not trustworthy. Um. He consolidated the government, 268 00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:51,000 Speaker 1: the praetorians um to make it more efficient. He quashed 269 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:55,320 Speaker 1: all of these riots and infighting, and he abolished something 270 00:16:55,360 --> 00:16:59,000 Speaker 1: called the right of sanctuary, which I guess there's parallels 271 00:16:59,040 --> 00:17:01,840 Speaker 1: in kind of modern day geopolitics. But what what do 272 00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,320 Speaker 1: you take that to mean? Ben? The right of sanctuary 273 00:17:05,359 --> 00:17:08,199 Speaker 1: is this old, old concept. Of course, maybe you know 274 00:17:08,280 --> 00:17:10,560 Speaker 1: it's kind of new at the time. Then, uh. The 275 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,560 Speaker 1: idea is that if you're being persecuted by your own country, 276 00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,280 Speaker 1: you can be protected by some other authority. Like that's 277 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:20,719 Speaker 1: why you have all those things from the Middle Ages 278 00:17:20,800 --> 00:17:22,560 Speaker 1: or films that are set in the Middle Ages where 279 00:17:22,600 --> 00:17:28,280 Speaker 1: someone's like sanctuary, sanctuary. It dates back to this concept. 280 00:17:28,359 --> 00:17:30,639 Speaker 1: I do want to say, when we say Egyptian and 281 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:35,199 Speaker 1: Jewish cults that's not that's not a pejorative term. Uh. 282 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,520 Speaker 1: They are occulted, you know, they're practicing things in secret, 283 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:42,040 Speaker 1: so he saw them as an avenue. They have potential 284 00:17:42,080 --> 00:17:45,399 Speaker 1: to be seditious. My last question with that one is 285 00:17:45,480 --> 00:17:49,480 Speaker 1: did the astrologers see it coming? Is that rude to ask? 286 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:52,040 Speaker 1: I don't think they saw it coming. I highly doubt 287 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:54,639 Speaker 1: it myself, Ben. And so then you know, he was 288 00:17:54,680 --> 00:17:57,640 Speaker 1: seen as being kind of progressive, you know, in terms 289 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,880 Speaker 1: of some of the laws and the policies that he enacted. Uh, 290 00:18:01,880 --> 00:18:06,960 Speaker 1: and seemed to be kind of helping the nation what 291 00:18:07,119 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: was wrong the empire, that's the word. Um, helping strengthen 292 00:18:10,359 --> 00:18:16,120 Speaker 1: their navy. UM. He stopped gladiator events, which obviously we're 293 00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:19,280 Speaker 1: hugely popular, and I'm sure that didn't go over particularly well. 294 00:18:19,280 --> 00:18:21,720 Speaker 1: But as we know, I mean, it's an absolutely barbaric 295 00:18:21,840 --> 00:18:25,040 Speaker 1: situation where slaves and you know, prisoners were forced to 296 00:18:25,080 --> 00:18:29,000 Speaker 1: fight to the death for the amusement of of the people. 297 00:18:29,440 --> 00:18:33,440 Speaker 1: UM and also mainly the the hierarchy. UM. And he 298 00:18:33,680 --> 00:18:37,400 Speaker 1: even like showed this idea of having a month named 299 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:38,879 Speaker 1: after him. So he seemed to have a little bit 300 00:18:38,880 --> 00:18:42,399 Speaker 1: of humility. He was not into extravagance and all the 301 00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: trappings of the office. So started off kind of strong, 302 00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,480 Speaker 1: right yeah yeah. Uh also good, I will say objectively 303 00:18:50,520 --> 00:18:53,880 Speaker 1: good call and stopping claudatorial things. That's there were animals 304 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 1: that were hunted to the state of critical endangerment. Um, 305 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:03,040 Speaker 1: I'm just pro animals, anti gladiators, I guess. Yeah. This 306 00:19:03,040 --> 00:19:07,440 Speaker 1: this seems set like he's clearly authoritarian. He's clearly trying 307 00:19:07,520 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 1: to stop what he sees as headonism. Right. Uh, this 308 00:19:11,119 --> 00:19:16,080 Speaker 1: whole changes in eree his beloved son drew Sus dies. 309 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,600 Speaker 1: According to contemporary reports and reports that you know were 310 00:19:20,640 --> 00:19:24,520 Speaker 1: written long after his reign, this is seen as his 311 00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: his tipping point. Uh. There's a source called Cassius Dio 312 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:35,840 Speaker 1: who says Tiberius now became increasingly paranoid and bloodthirsty and cruel, 313 00:19:36,160 --> 00:19:39,600 Speaker 1: and he was showing some signs of what we would 314 00:19:39,640 --> 00:19:43,879 Speaker 1: call cognitive dissonance today. He would torture slaves to death, 315 00:19:44,200 --> 00:19:48,080 Speaker 1: and then he would mourn people who died after he 316 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,280 Speaker 1: ordered their deaths, but then he would resent the people 317 00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:58,119 Speaker 1: who he didn't purge. Uh. This like imagine what a 318 00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,399 Speaker 1: mind field that is, because it sounds like he's having 319 00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:04,320 Speaker 1: some dithering, some indecision. He's like, man, I should have 320 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:08,400 Speaker 1: killed caster number two. Why are you alive? Number one? 321 00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:13,200 Speaker 1: I knew it was you. You've committed some weird crime. Uh. 322 00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:16,320 Speaker 1: This is clearly going to have some blowback. He becomes 323 00:20:16,359 --> 00:20:20,640 Speaker 1: incredibly unpopular with the Senate, where the people he has 324 00:20:20,720 --> 00:20:23,680 Speaker 1: to please, and with the people like the actual people 325 00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:26,600 Speaker 1: of the Roman Empire. Absolutely, I mean, because he's definitely 326 00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:31,600 Speaker 1: going after some wealthy landholders and people that are very 327 00:20:31,600 --> 00:20:35,520 Speaker 1: influential with members of the Senate. Um. He's just dolling 328 00:20:35,560 --> 00:20:40,240 Speaker 1: out all of these really harsh punishments and confiscating people's property, 329 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:44,199 Speaker 1: and then he just kind of ups and leaves. In 330 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,679 Speaker 1: twenty s CE, he's like, peace out, you know, I'm gone, 331 00:20:47,720 --> 00:20:51,080 Speaker 1: and he takes off to Capri. It reminds me of 332 00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:53,919 Speaker 1: that part and the Sword in the Stone where Merlin's like, 333 00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:57,560 Speaker 1: blow me too, Bermuda, you know. And then he's out 334 00:20:57,600 --> 00:20:59,920 Speaker 1: and he's gone, and he just pieces out to Bermuda 335 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:01,639 Speaker 1: and then kind of comes back at the end to 336 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:04,119 Speaker 1: sort of like set things right or whatever, or at 337 00:21:04,200 --> 00:21:06,399 Speaker 1: least let Arthur come into his own that that is 338 00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,399 Speaker 1: not what happens with Tiberia. So he goes to the 339 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:11,920 Speaker 1: island of Capri, which is a beautiful place that's still 340 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:16,880 Speaker 1: a very swanky destination for the rich and powerful today. 341 00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:21,840 Speaker 1: But he completely became like this hermit. And he assigned 342 00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:27,560 Speaker 1: control to uh Lucius alias said Janus Um, who is 343 00:21:27,600 --> 00:21:30,960 Speaker 1: the captain of of his praetorian guard uh. And he 344 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:34,720 Speaker 1: gave him this name, Socius labor um, which means partner 345 00:21:34,760 --> 00:21:36,600 Speaker 1: of my labors, which I guess is sort of like 346 00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,520 Speaker 1: the idea of oh, what would you call that ben 347 00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:41,919 Speaker 1: like um, what do you call someone that kind of 348 00:21:42,040 --> 00:21:45,920 Speaker 1: rules in while someone else is maybe not doing well 349 00:21:46,119 --> 00:21:49,560 Speaker 1: or like under the weather, like health wise, power behind 350 00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:55,320 Speaker 1: the throne. You could also say um regent perhaps is perfect. 351 00:21:55,560 --> 00:21:57,439 Speaker 1: That's the one I was trying to think of. So 352 00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:01,720 Speaker 1: Tiberius when he does this, he he seems to completely 353 00:22:01,720 --> 00:22:04,080 Speaker 1: withdraw I like that you bring up the phrase hermit. 354 00:22:04,160 --> 00:22:06,760 Speaker 1: He is a reclusive he's in the island of Capri, 355 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:10,520 Speaker 1: Bay of Naples. But this is where it gets weird. 356 00:22:10,600 --> 00:22:13,960 Speaker 1: So younger listeners, family listeners be warned, this might not 357 00:22:14,000 --> 00:22:18,720 Speaker 1: be appropriate for everybody. According to a source named Setonius, 358 00:22:18,840 --> 00:22:23,600 Speaker 1: who was also um, kind of like a TMZ kind 359 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:29,399 Speaker 1: of questionable coverage Yeah, Tiberius went nuts in the worst 360 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:31,399 Speaker 1: way and became an example of a lot of the 361 00:22:31,480 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: things that he originally fought against. Uh. Here is an 362 00:22:35,160 --> 00:22:40,800 Speaker 1: excerpt from Setonius, Life of Tiberius and all the hey's 363 00:22:40,920 --> 00:22:45,000 Speaker 1: referred to Tiberius. Here. On retiring to Capri, he devised 364 00:22:45,000 --> 00:22:48,800 Speaker 1: a pleasants for his secret orgies, teams of wantons of 365 00:22:48,840 --> 00:22:53,240 Speaker 1: both sexes selected as experts, and deviant intercourse. And here's 366 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:58,520 Speaker 1: my favorite part, dubbed analyst. I first read that analysts, 367 00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:01,160 Speaker 1: and now I realized that not what it means at all. 368 00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: That's such a we're like nine years old. That's such 369 00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:07,360 Speaker 1: a weird word. Any way, So they said they copulated 370 00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: before him in triple unions to excite his flagging passions. 371 00:23:11,359 --> 00:23:12,920 Speaker 1: It's this is a long quote. You want to help 372 00:23:12,920 --> 00:23:15,919 Speaker 1: out with us part? Yeah, it's bedroom. Now. This is 373 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:18,400 Speaker 1: referring to by the way, he built all these villas, 374 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:22,720 Speaker 1: and the most elaborate of them was called Villa Jovis, 375 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:25,600 Speaker 1: which I believe translates to the Villa of Jupiter, which 376 00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:30,160 Speaker 1: was a an absurdly ostentatious palatial kind of estate on 377 00:23:30,240 --> 00:23:34,720 Speaker 1: the island of Capri's northeast corner. It goes on to say, 378 00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:38,800 Speaker 1: in referring to the bedrooms of Villa Jovis, Uh, they 379 00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:43,040 Speaker 1: were furnished with the most salacious paintings and sculptures, as 380 00:23:43,080 --> 00:23:46,480 Speaker 1: well as with an erotic library. In case a performer 381 00:23:46,520 --> 00:23:50,080 Speaker 1: should need an illustration of what was required, then in 382 00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:53,960 Speaker 1: Capri's woods and groves, he arranged a number of nooks 383 00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,960 Speaker 1: of venery where boys and girls got up as pans 384 00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: and nymphs solicited outside bowers and grottos. People openly called 385 00:24:03,200 --> 00:24:06,440 Speaker 1: this the old goats Garden. Punning on the island's name 386 00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:10,040 Speaker 1: because of the Romans referred to Capri as goat Island 387 00:24:10,560 --> 00:24:15,120 Speaker 1: is so so so gross, because all right, well, our 388 00:24:15,160 --> 00:24:17,639 Speaker 1: our path is set, let's keep going. You know, of course, 389 00:24:17,920 --> 00:24:21,560 Speaker 1: we know that Pan the satyr Uh is the Greek 390 00:24:21,600 --> 00:24:25,840 Speaker 1: god with the bottom half of a goat, and Uh, 391 00:24:26,040 --> 00:24:28,120 Speaker 1: I don't know, he's got the hind quarters of a goat, 392 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,520 Speaker 1: and he's got the horns. And these were thought to be, 393 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:38,680 Speaker 1: you know, symbolically, they were um representations of uh physical desire, 394 00:24:39,160 --> 00:24:44,040 Speaker 1: of UH sexual passion. And so this is something that 395 00:24:44,119 --> 00:24:49,080 Speaker 1: Satorious is definitely leveraging to make Tiberias seem like a 396 00:24:49,240 --> 00:24:52,760 Speaker 1: super horny old man. But this is this is one 397 00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:55,840 Speaker 1: of the weirdest ones. So he completely is not doing 398 00:24:55,880 --> 00:25:00,560 Speaker 1: his job as emperor. Instead, according according to this story, 399 00:25:00,040 --> 00:25:05,360 Speaker 1: he is getting so weird and specific with his pursuits 400 00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:09,119 Speaker 1: that that he's doing things that probably wouldn't occur to 401 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,120 Speaker 1: most people in the world at the time. Who else 402 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:16,399 Speaker 1: would have thought of training children, little boys to act 403 00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:20,600 Speaker 1: as nipping minnows or what he called tidlers I believe, 404 00:25:20,800 --> 00:25:24,720 Speaker 1: to chase him when he went swimming. Yeah, that's gross, 405 00:25:25,119 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: It's it's beyond gross. And just to just to take 406 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:32,040 Speaker 1: it one step further, um, yeah, they were nipping minnows 407 00:25:32,119 --> 00:25:34,840 Speaker 1: because he would be swimming I'm imagining in the nude 408 00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:41,000 Speaker 1: and they would swim after him, nibbling between his legs. Um. 409 00:25:41,119 --> 00:25:45,320 Speaker 1: So yeah, no one from the court was allowed to 410 00:25:45,440 --> 00:25:49,400 Speaker 1: visit him on Capri. He was in complete quarantine. Uh, 411 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:53,040 Speaker 1: you know, self imposed. Um, with this harem of of 412 00:25:53,119 --> 00:25:56,600 Speaker 1: young boys and women and girls and just having a 413 00:25:56,680 --> 00:25:59,600 Speaker 1: good old time. Um. There were even you know, local 414 00:25:59,640 --> 00:26:03,840 Speaker 1: fisher men who were in that region. Uh, they were 415 00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:06,800 Speaker 1: not allowed to fish in the waters of Capri. If 416 00:26:06,840 --> 00:26:09,359 Speaker 1: they were found to be doing that, they would have 417 00:26:09,520 --> 00:26:12,960 Speaker 1: held to pay yeah, and uh he turned the place 418 00:26:12,960 --> 00:26:18,760 Speaker 1: into his own deranged uh pleasure islands. So how did 419 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,800 Speaker 1: he get away with this? For so long? He was 420 00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,520 Speaker 1: distracting the Senate, which is something a lot of Greek 421 00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,040 Speaker 1: and Roman emperors did, you know, the whole bread and 422 00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:32,440 Speaker 1: circuses vibes. He was distracting the public by his clearly 423 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:37,040 Speaker 1: deteriorating mental state, his sexual deviancy, by building statues all 424 00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,239 Speaker 1: over the city and distributing all this propaganda. Right, and 425 00:26:41,280 --> 00:26:46,040 Speaker 1: he was so busy though with his weird fetishistic stuff 426 00:26:46,480 --> 00:26:48,840 Speaker 1: that he did not notice the same person he was 427 00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:52,800 Speaker 1: trying to keep in power was of course plotting against him. 428 00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,399 Speaker 1: And then when he figured out that treason was in 429 00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:02,600 Speaker 1: the air, you know, he presumably put some clothes on, right, Uh, 430 00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:06,080 Speaker 1: maybe dried himself off, took off whatever weird costume he 431 00:27:06,080 --> 00:27:08,280 Speaker 1: had on, and he said, I've got to go to Rome. 432 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,679 Speaker 1: Get yet to Rome. And he did that in a 433 00:27:11,800 --> 00:27:15,720 Speaker 1: D thirty one. He uh summoned s Janas, who was 434 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:19,320 Speaker 1: his his buddy up until this point, to a Senate meeting, 435 00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:23,440 Speaker 1: immediately condemned him to death. Um accused him of treason. 436 00:27:23,520 --> 00:27:25,520 Speaker 1: And it's not like they tried him or anything. They 437 00:27:25,560 --> 00:27:28,680 Speaker 1: just the accusation alone was all it took, and had 438 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:32,680 Speaker 1: him executed along with anyone that was associated with him 439 00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:37,280 Speaker 1: or his plot to overtake uh, Tiberius as the ruler. 440 00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 1: And then I mean that wasn't enough. He you know, 441 00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,280 Speaker 1: that paranoia that we described earlier, this is really coming 442 00:27:43,280 --> 00:27:47,320 Speaker 1: into play because he goes on an absolute murder frenzy um. 443 00:27:47,359 --> 00:27:51,639 Speaker 1: And Tacitus, who's another historian, describes it as such. This 444 00:27:51,800 --> 00:27:56,080 Speaker 1: is wild. Executions were now a stimulus to his fury, 445 00:27:56,119 --> 00:27:58,639 Speaker 1: and he ordered the death of all who were lying 446 00:27:58,840 --> 00:28:03,760 Speaker 1: in prison under accusation of complicity with Saganas. There lay 447 00:28:03,880 --> 00:28:08,080 Speaker 1: singly or in heaps, the unnumbered dead of every age 448 00:28:08,119 --> 00:28:12,080 Speaker 1: and sex, the illustrious, with the obscure kinsfolk and friends 449 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,640 Speaker 1: were not allowed to be near them, to weep over them, 450 00:28:14,760 --> 00:28:23,160 Speaker 1: or even to gaze on them too long. And so 451 00:28:24,040 --> 00:28:27,879 Speaker 1: Tiberius really shoots himself in the foot here way before 452 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: the invention of firearms. Obviously, Uh. You see Saganas the 453 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: person who is doing all the work, and the person 454 00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:35,919 Speaker 1: he supported, and then the person who turned against him 455 00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:40,160 Speaker 1: that he later executed. Saganas have been taking the brunt 456 00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:45,560 Speaker 1: of public blame for the emperor's we're disturbing excesses. But 457 00:28:46,040 --> 00:28:48,160 Speaker 1: when he was gone, when he was killed out of 458 00:28:48,200 --> 00:28:51,080 Speaker 1: the picture, the blame for this rested solely with the 459 00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:55,680 Speaker 1: guy who was responsible, Typeerious. The empire continued to run on. 460 00:28:55,840 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: It's a huge machine. But for the remaining six years 461 00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:04,120 Speaker 1: of Type Arious his life, he was terrorizing Rome. The Senate, 462 00:29:04,680 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: which was famous for infighting and betrayal and subterfuge. The 463 00:29:09,320 --> 00:29:14,320 Speaker 1: Senate was scrambling, just like any congressional body or parliament 464 00:29:14,560 --> 00:29:18,360 Speaker 1: to agree on something. They needed to name a successor. 465 00:29:18,840 --> 00:29:21,800 Speaker 1: And then Tiberius, at this point is so far gone. 466 00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,280 Speaker 1: He's convinced not only has Saganas betrayed him or was 467 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:28,120 Speaker 1: planning to overthrow him, but he thinks Siganna's killed his 468 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,280 Speaker 1: kid as well, and so he sends out these spies 469 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:34,760 Speaker 1: like you. Like you have mentioned in that quote, no 470 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,200 Speaker 1: one is safe. Even people who are on Capri are 471 00:29:38,240 --> 00:29:41,920 Speaker 1: not safe. He's sending folks out for them. And eventually, 472 00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:46,320 Speaker 1: just like his adoptive father, he takes an l and 473 00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:49,040 Speaker 1: he says, I'm going to have to name some successors, 474 00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: So I'm gonna name one of my adopted grandsons. He 475 00:29:52,200 --> 00:29:58,120 Speaker 1: names his grandson, caligula successor. And then he says, I 476 00:29:58,160 --> 00:30:02,320 Speaker 1: am nursing a viper in Rome. S bossom ha ha 477 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:07,360 Speaker 1: fun right. Uh. And then you know, he gets into 478 00:30:07,480 --> 00:30:12,560 Speaker 1: like an accident during kind of a ceremonial joust, I 479 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,960 Speaker 1: guess is what you could call it um, and that 480 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: really caused his health to take a turn for the worst. 481 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,120 Speaker 1: He fell into a coma and uh, the physicians that 482 00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:24,120 Speaker 1: attended to him, you know, said he would, he would. 483 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:26,440 Speaker 1: He's a goner. He's gonna be dead within like a 484 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:30,560 Speaker 1: day or so. Uh. Caligula has called for the Praetorian 485 00:30:30,680 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: Guard bend the knee to him, and the Senate officially 486 00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:38,800 Speaker 1: proclaims Caligula to be the Supreme Emperor of Roman. You 487 00:30:38,880 --> 00:30:41,360 Speaker 1: even added the supreme just to give it a little 488 00:30:41,440 --> 00:30:43,959 Speaker 1: more of of a flex. Yeah, you got a flex 489 00:30:43,960 --> 00:30:47,720 Speaker 1: on him. But wait, there's a whomp whomp moment here. 490 00:30:47,840 --> 00:30:51,840 Speaker 1: This is a very Larry David moment, because, uh, Tiberius 491 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:57,000 Speaker 1: doesn't die. He wakes up and he's like, boy, I'm hungry. Uh, 492 00:30:57,000 --> 00:30:59,680 Speaker 1: he cooked me up something to eat. People are panicking, 493 00:31:00,040 --> 00:31:02,480 Speaker 1: you know this guy. Now, we can't have two emperors. 494 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 1: That's not emperor's work. Uh so history sometimes very rare times, 495 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:11,640 Speaker 1: it turns on the actions of a single individual, which 496 00:31:11,640 --> 00:31:16,400 Speaker 1: should be inspiring and terrifying in equal parts. One person 497 00:31:16,680 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 1: changes the course of history. The new captain of the 498 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:24,680 Speaker 1: Praetorian Guard, Macro, which is a cool name, Um Macro, 499 00:31:26,040 --> 00:31:29,479 Speaker 1: slips into Tiberius's chambers again he probably would have survived 500 00:31:29,520 --> 00:31:33,160 Speaker 1: for a few more years, and uh he smothers the 501 00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,680 Speaker 1: elderly former emperor to death. Yeah, with a pile of blankets, 502 00:31:37,920 --> 00:31:39,560 Speaker 1: which is kind of a step up from the usual 503 00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:42,920 Speaker 1: hospital bed pillow smothering. But it's interesting then. You know. 504 00:31:43,080 --> 00:31:45,440 Speaker 1: You got to think too that this was in many 505 00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 1: ways a kind of self preservation move on Macro's part, 506 00:31:49,320 --> 00:31:54,400 Speaker 1: because he knew that if if Tiberius found out that 507 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:59,080 Speaker 1: he and his entire guard had already sworn fealty to um, 508 00:31:59,280 --> 00:32:01,920 Speaker 1: you know, to Sigula while he lay there in a colma, 509 00:32:01,960 --> 00:32:04,280 Speaker 1: he would not have been very happy about that, and 510 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:08,240 Speaker 1: with his crazy rages, probably would have done something bonkers 511 00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:12,400 Speaker 1: like had them all killed or removed or imprisoned or something. Right. Yeah, 512 00:32:12,440 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: that's a really good point. You know. Regicide is a 513 00:32:15,920 --> 00:32:18,320 Speaker 1: great crime, the killing of a of a king or 514 00:32:18,520 --> 00:32:22,800 Speaker 1: royal But the more I think about it, maybe Macro 515 00:32:23,360 --> 00:32:27,720 Speaker 1: was trying to save the empire because you know, at 516 00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:32,120 Speaker 1: this point Caligula is clearly depraved, right, but uh he 517 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:35,920 Speaker 1: doesn't have the track record of insanity that Tiberius has 518 00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,040 Speaker 1: before he dies under that pile of blankets at the 519 00:32:39,080 --> 00:32:42,840 Speaker 1: age of seventy seven. So maybe Macro, Maybe Macro deserves 520 00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:46,480 Speaker 1: more credit as um in terms of his intentions. What 521 00:32:46,520 --> 00:32:47,960 Speaker 1: do you think. I think he might be right. He 522 00:32:48,040 --> 00:32:51,040 Speaker 1: chose the lesser of the two nutcases in this particular 523 00:32:51,080 --> 00:32:56,040 Speaker 1: situation because Caligula still hadn't had access to all of 524 00:32:56,080 --> 00:32:59,720 Speaker 1: the resources that you do when you become the supreme emperor. 525 00:33:00,200 --> 00:33:02,480 Speaker 1: Uh So, if you guys have ever seen the purely 526 00:33:02,560 --> 00:33:07,720 Speaker 1: pornographic film Caligula starring Malcolm McDowell, which I believe was 527 00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:11,920 Speaker 1: produced by a porn impress Sario possibly pen. It wasn't 528 00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:14,080 Speaker 1: Penthouse because that was no pen. It was Penthouse because 529 00:33:14,120 --> 00:33:16,360 Speaker 1: Hustler was Larry flint Um. I believe it was the 530 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,960 Speaker 1: publisher of Penthouse magazine. And that is a film to 531 00:33:20,160 --> 00:33:23,240 Speaker 1: check out. It is absolutely depraved and some of the 532 00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,200 Speaker 1: set pieces are nuts. There's one where he's taking out 533 00:33:26,240 --> 00:33:29,400 Speaker 1: all his enemies and rivals um by burying them up 534 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: to their neck in uh sand. And then there's this 535 00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:37,000 Speaker 1: crazy like giant thresher lawnmower type machine that like slices 536 00:33:37,040 --> 00:33:40,080 Speaker 1: all their heads off, like their little cabbage is above 537 00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:42,680 Speaker 1: the ground and it just lops them off. Don't know 538 00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 1: how historically accurate that is, but definitely a film worth 539 00:33:46,160 --> 00:33:50,479 Speaker 1: checking out if you want something completely trashy. I do 540 00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:52,600 Speaker 1: I do want to add so this this is the 541 00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:55,600 Speaker 1: depraved Rain, the debauched Rain of Tiberius. But we do 542 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,080 Speaker 1: want to add um I think I tease this at 543 00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,800 Speaker 1: the top of the episode. Oh yeah, I know what 544 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:03,600 Speaker 1: you're in them? Yeah, we these stories are red meat 545 00:34:03,800 --> 00:34:09,520 Speaker 1: right there, juicy, they're they're fascinating, but they might they 546 00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:12,920 Speaker 1: might not be a true because you might be thinking, 547 00:34:13,239 --> 00:34:16,480 Speaker 1: fellow ridiculous historians, when you're listening to the this episode, 548 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:20,200 Speaker 1: UH might be thinking, Wow, what gives with all these 549 00:34:20,560 --> 00:34:26,440 Speaker 1: uh perverted, bizarre, deprived emperors in the Roman Empire? Well, 550 00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,279 Speaker 1: some of these might be tabloid stories. We have to 551 00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 1: take them with a grain of salt. We have to 552 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:35,600 Speaker 1: remember that a lot of these people who wrote these 553 00:34:35,680 --> 00:34:39,360 Speaker 1: histories of emperors after they died, they were living under 554 00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,120 Speaker 1: the rule of another emperor, and so it's not the 555 00:34:43,160 --> 00:34:45,880 Speaker 1: best move to be like, you know, who is way 556 00:34:46,200 --> 00:34:50,279 Speaker 1: cool that guy before you? You know, yeah, and you 557 00:34:50,360 --> 00:34:52,960 Speaker 1: gotta think like, yeah, they're trying to curry favor directly, 558 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:57,080 Speaker 1: but also they know which side their bread is buttered on. Uh, 559 00:34:57,120 --> 00:34:59,799 Speaker 1: and they may well have been slipped some of these 560 00:35:00,000 --> 00:35:02,840 Speaker 1: details and said you will write of Tiberius that he 561 00:35:02,920 --> 00:35:07,200 Speaker 1: had young catamites swimming after his bits and behaving as 562 00:35:07,280 --> 00:35:11,920 Speaker 1: tiny minnows, you know, in a rgsque you know, situation 563 00:35:12,080 --> 00:35:15,520 Speaker 1: on on capri um. So you know, that sounds so 564 00:35:15,640 --> 00:35:18,520 Speaker 1: bonkers that it's just crazy enough to have literally been 565 00:35:18,560 --> 00:35:20,640 Speaker 1: made up by somebody, because it's like, if I had 566 00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:24,080 Speaker 1: to make up something just completely untrue, uh, and that 567 00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,560 Speaker 1: would get people's imagination spinning, that might be a go to. Yeah, 568 00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:32,520 Speaker 1: as as someone uh who was recovering from doing massive 569 00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,799 Speaker 1: about the improv back in the day. That sounds like 570 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:37,120 Speaker 1: a setup that you arrive at when a bunch of 571 00:35:37,160 --> 00:35:40,640 Speaker 1: people are just brainstorming and they're like, what's even weirder, 572 00:35:40,840 --> 00:35:44,920 Speaker 1: what's even weirder? No, no, no, no, no, no now now, um, 573 00:35:44,960 --> 00:35:48,799 Speaker 1: this kind of uh, depraved sexual behavior is disturbing. But 574 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,839 Speaker 1: let's get you know, let's get weird with it. Let's 575 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:53,080 Speaker 1: throw a pool in there, right, somebody yes and me 576 00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:57,040 Speaker 1: on this one. That's that's almost how it reads, because 577 00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:00,400 Speaker 1: you'll see other reports that say Tiberius actually, when he 578 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:03,359 Speaker 1: lived in exile and Capri, he just lived with like 579 00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,480 Speaker 1: a small group of people that where his friends are entourage, 580 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:10,160 Speaker 1: and he hung out and talked philosophy with Greek intellectuals. 581 00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,239 Speaker 1: So the real truth is probably somewhere in between. There's 582 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:17,239 Speaker 1: also an account from Edward Togo Salmon that says only 583 00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,000 Speaker 1: fifty two people were actually accused of treason throughout his 584 00:36:20,239 --> 00:36:23,680 Speaker 1: entire reign, and that only about half of them were executed, 585 00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:28,400 Speaker 1: and uh, only four innocent men died apparently. Um, and 586 00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:32,440 Speaker 1: here's the thing, um, you know, the system of government 587 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,920 Speaker 1: is really more to blame. You know, even as crazy 588 00:36:35,920 --> 00:36:38,520 Speaker 1: as a ruler can be, it's the system of government 589 00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,120 Speaker 1: that's kind of what empowers them to get that crazy, 590 00:36:41,239 --> 00:36:43,799 Speaker 1: whether it's the Senate or whether it's just you know, uh, 591 00:36:44,080 --> 00:36:46,680 Speaker 1: the nature of of an empire in the Roman system, 592 00:36:46,960 --> 00:36:49,160 Speaker 1: and that it wasn't merit based at all, that it 593 00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:51,920 Speaker 1: was all about succession, and so you would get these like, 594 00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,600 Speaker 1: you know, it's the same with with royalty. I mean 595 00:36:55,600 --> 00:36:58,560 Speaker 1: you you end up with these like completely under prepared 596 00:36:58,680 --> 00:37:03,520 Speaker 1: and potentially mental ill rulers because nobody has a choice 597 00:37:03,600 --> 00:37:05,799 Speaker 1: but to elevate them to that position because they are 598 00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:09,439 Speaker 1: in line. Yeah. On various other shows, I've I've made 599 00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,400 Speaker 1: my opinions about monarchical systems known. We don't need to 600 00:37:13,440 --> 00:37:15,920 Speaker 1: go into them today other than to say I have 601 00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:19,640 Speaker 1: on the same page with you. Even in our system, 602 00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:21,760 Speaker 1: you you have a big problem, a lot on stuff 603 00:37:21,800 --> 00:37:24,440 Speaker 1: that it wants you to know about nepotism and about 604 00:37:24,480 --> 00:37:27,239 Speaker 1: like you know, dynasty's political dynasties, which is kind of 605 00:37:27,239 --> 00:37:29,719 Speaker 1: a modern version of the same kind of business in 606 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:32,520 Speaker 1: a lot of ways. Yes, yeah, all right, I'll say it. 607 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:34,160 Speaker 1: I'll say it. I'll keep it brief. This is not 608 00:37:34,200 --> 00:37:36,359 Speaker 1: gonna be a ted talk. But do you know how 609 00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:40,440 Speaker 1: weird it is to explain to uh, my friends who 610 00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:42,800 Speaker 1: are not from the States and they say, oh, okay, 611 00:37:42,840 --> 00:37:46,640 Speaker 1: so this is a democracy, republican meritocracy. That means that 612 00:37:46,680 --> 00:37:49,279 Speaker 1: the most qualified person gets the job. And I'm like, yeah, 613 00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,680 Speaker 1: that's what that's what it means. Every you know, every 614 00:37:52,719 --> 00:37:57,040 Speaker 1: few years we elect the best and brightest of all 615 00:37:57,200 --> 00:38:00,200 Speaker 1: three d twenty three millions something of us. And then 616 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:03,080 Speaker 1: they always hit me with that question, if that's true, 617 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,719 Speaker 1: how come so many presidents to that the same last name. 618 00:38:06,760 --> 00:38:09,200 Speaker 1: How come they've been in the same family. I thought 619 00:38:09,280 --> 00:38:13,840 Speaker 1: you said it wasn't a monarchy, At which point I'm like, oh, man, well, 620 00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:19,480 Speaker 1: you know there's a lot lost in the chasm between 621 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: theory and practice. Anyway, let me show you this landmark. 622 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:29,200 Speaker 1: It's called Stone Mountain. Yeah. The fact they haven't sand 623 00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:31,759 Speaker 1: blasted that baby yet is is kind of lost on me. 624 00:38:31,840 --> 00:38:34,200 Speaker 1: But you know, history, you gotta preserve history and all that. 625 00:38:34,280 --> 00:38:37,320 Speaker 1: And speaking of preserving history, if you want to take 626 00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:40,040 Speaker 1: a pleasure cruise to the island of Capri, you can 627 00:38:40,080 --> 00:38:43,279 Speaker 1: do so from Naples and check it out. And the 628 00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:48,560 Speaker 1: ruins I guess of the villa where Tiberius supposedly carried 629 00:38:48,560 --> 00:38:51,919 Speaker 1: out all of these debauched activities is tourable. Um, it's 630 00:38:51,920 --> 00:38:53,680 Speaker 1: a bit of a walk. I think it's a couple 631 00:38:53,719 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: of kilometers from where you get dropped off, but it's 632 00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:01,839 Speaker 1: it's accessible and probably a very interesting, uh interesting hike. 633 00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:07,240 Speaker 1: And in conclusion, we hope you enjoyed today's episode, folks, Uh, 634 00:39:07,280 --> 00:39:11,240 Speaker 1: we do have to say to be fair that while 635 00:39:11,520 --> 00:39:15,880 Speaker 1: clearly we're we're having fun taking, in my mind valid 636 00:39:15,920 --> 00:39:18,880 Speaker 1: pot shots at the problems with Roman government and the 637 00:39:18,920 --> 00:39:22,960 Speaker 1: Empire in general, they are in a large part responsible 638 00:39:23,040 --> 00:39:29,200 Speaker 1: for some incredibly profound scientific and cultural and philosophical advances 639 00:39:29,840 --> 00:39:32,640 Speaker 1: that are that remain important in the world today. So 640 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,960 Speaker 1: I'm just I feel like we have to say it. 641 00:39:35,280 --> 00:39:39,279 Speaker 1: But still Tiberius makes you wonder what leaders can get 642 00:39:39,280 --> 00:39:41,920 Speaker 1: away with, you know. Um not to say there aren't 643 00:39:42,160 --> 00:39:46,320 Speaker 1: uh leaders who are bawling out in very strange depraved 644 00:39:46,320 --> 00:39:53,640 Speaker 1: ways today, Kim Jongoon, the assaultan of Brunei, Donald Trump, Yeah, yeah, 645 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:58,600 Speaker 1: the I mean, the a lot of ruling members of 646 00:39:58,680 --> 00:40:01,880 Speaker 1: the House of out in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. 647 00:40:02,120 --> 00:40:06,400 Speaker 1: History is not as as far gone nor as uh 648 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:09,840 Speaker 1: uh distant as I think we would like to think sometimes. 649 00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,640 Speaker 1: So maybe Tiberius is a lesson that applies in the 650 00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:15,799 Speaker 1: modern day. Maybe we could just call it, hey, don't 651 00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:20,080 Speaker 1: hire your nephew. I don't know, absolutely not, especially you're like, 652 00:40:20,760 --> 00:40:24,279 Speaker 1: you know, like Damien from the Omen type nephew, you 653 00:40:24,320 --> 00:40:27,640 Speaker 1: know know that that just read the signs, read the room, 654 00:40:27,680 --> 00:40:30,480 Speaker 1: not a good idea, but man, I gotta say Ben. 655 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,040 Speaker 1: As as as upsetting in some ways and depraved as 656 00:40:34,040 --> 00:40:39,640 Speaker 1: this episode was, I really enjoyed talking about this with you. Yeah, agreed. 657 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:43,319 Speaker 1: I'm also grateful that we have instituted our own form 658 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:47,000 Speaker 1: of government for ridiculous history. Early on, I cannot remember 659 00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,520 Speaker 1: if we were talking about this on air or if 660 00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:52,399 Speaker 1: we were at a happy hour to bar back when 661 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: people went outside, but there was a time where we 662 00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:58,960 Speaker 1: decided to elect Casey as our ruler. I think you're 663 00:40:58,960 --> 00:41:01,280 Speaker 1: the only man for the job. Casey, are you okay 664 00:41:01,280 --> 00:41:04,360 Speaker 1: with this heavy waves the head that wears the crown. 665 00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:07,680 Speaker 1: I don't feel like I'm really cut out for for ruling, 666 00:41:07,760 --> 00:41:09,680 Speaker 1: but if it thrust upon me, I guess I'll do 667 00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:12,080 Speaker 1: what I can. Oh, we be thrust in. It is 668 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:18,160 Speaker 1: thrust uh in, you know, in pure in pure Tiberian style, boy, 669 00:41:18,440 --> 00:41:21,319 Speaker 1: thrust in on Casey. Which can we start calling you 670 00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:24,040 Speaker 1: the case store? Sure? I love the case store, Casey, 671 00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,560 Speaker 1: case case k store on the case. Okay, I'm gonna stop. 672 00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,600 Speaker 1: We'll get there, We'll get there, We'll workshop it. Thank 673 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,520 Speaker 1: you as always for tuning in thinks of course, to 674 00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:41,839 Speaker 1: our research associate Gabe Bluesier, who I know books it's 675 00:41:41,840 --> 00:41:44,640 Speaker 1: on the books though now it is actually happening. Gabe, 676 00:41:44,960 --> 00:41:48,839 Speaker 1: thank you for pencil. You knows. I think we're such 677 00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,440 Speaker 1: fan boys of this guy. I hope it's not too awkward. 678 00:41:52,719 --> 00:41:54,880 Speaker 1: Can we tease us a little bit just saying that 679 00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:59,160 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about psychedelic cats? Nobody google that. 680 00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:01,680 Speaker 1: Don't ruin this for us or yourself. It's gonna be 681 00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,560 Speaker 1: a wild ride. Uh. And of course thanks to our 682 00:42:04,640 --> 00:42:07,840 Speaker 1: our good pal Christopher Hasciotis do for a return appearance, 683 00:42:08,000 --> 00:42:11,439 Speaker 1: I would say, also Eve's Jeff Coat. Uh. And oh 684 00:42:11,560 --> 00:42:14,720 Speaker 1: you know what I never I forgot to. I forgot 685 00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:17,320 Speaker 1: to write back to Jonathan Strickland, a k. The quister, 686 00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,279 Speaker 1: that one's on me. What do you mean right back? 687 00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:22,560 Speaker 1: We don't communicate with him, and advance of his appearances, 688 00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,439 Speaker 1: he just kind of materializes. I like to write him 689 00:42:25,480 --> 00:42:28,839 Speaker 1: some some kind of like personal digs and insults, because 690 00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,600 Speaker 1: I think it just to get his dander up. Yeah, 691 00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:34,879 Speaker 1: for sure, for sure. Eat thanks to Alex Williams, who 692 00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:39,319 Speaker 1: composed our theme. Thanks to super producer Casey pegram Case 693 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:44,680 Speaker 1: Store Casey on the Casey case how about that? There 694 00:42:44,680 --> 00:42:47,680 Speaker 1: we go Yeah, and thanks of course to our our 695 00:42:47,760 --> 00:42:50,680 Speaker 1: good friend of the show and personal friends Sarah Cotanov, 696 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:53,839 Speaker 1: who initially tipped us off about that right up, and 697 00:42:54,239 --> 00:42:57,040 Speaker 1: Noel as always, thanks to you, Yeah, thanks to YouTube Ben, 698 00:42:57,080 --> 00:42:59,479 Speaker 1: and just really quickly, thanks to Justine Good who wrote 699 00:42:59,480 --> 00:43:02,239 Speaker 1: that nicely for Vanity Fair and Uh and thought to 700 00:43:02,320 --> 00:43:04,719 Speaker 1: include us that it means the world. We'll see you 701 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:13,719 Speaker 1: next time, folks. For more podcasts from My Heart Radio, 702 00:43:13,800 --> 00:43:16,400 Speaker 1: visit the I Heart Radio app, Apple podcast, or wherever 703 00:43:16,560 --> 00:43:18,080 Speaker 1: you listen to your favorite shows.