WEBVTT - Drive Time: Talking Play Callers with Jourdan Rodrigue 0:00:01.680 --> 0:00:04.720 You're listening to the Miami Dolphins Podcast Network. 0:00:05.120 --> 0:00:08.280 This is Drive Time with Travis Wingfield. Back to throw 0:00:08.360 --> 0:00:10.560 to a looking clips about. 0:00:10.280 --> 0:00:17.000 A wide Dolphen touchdown, trick call, uncrelievable, just blue by 0:00:17.200 --> 0:00:18.240 for a second time. 0:00:18.520 --> 0:00:20.840 Don knew where he was going right away. I want 0:00:20.920 --> 0:00:23.080 to hit that though, Man, I'm going to help you. 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:24.279 Someone will step on your man. 0:00:24.200 --> 0:00:28.320 Away Wattle, Wattle to a shotgun, back to throw, looking 0:00:28.360 --> 0:00:28.640 at them. 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:34.080 It's up Myers touchdown. It's Waddle his sixth touchdown, paradown 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:40.159 the King. Drive Time with Travis Wingfield begins. Now, let 0:00:40.200 --> 0:00:44.800 me check your pulse if you're not far? What is up? Dolphins? 0:00:44.880 --> 0:00:47.680 And welcome to the Draft Time podcast, part of the 0:00:47.720 --> 0:00:52.640 Miami Dolphins Podcast Network, covering your team, your Miami Dolphins. 0:00:52.640 --> 0:00:55.560 How's it going to everybody? I am your host, Travis Wingfield. 0:00:55.800 --> 0:00:59.200 And on today's show, at long last, the long anticipated 0:01:00.120 --> 0:01:02.800 visit of Jordan rodrig to stop by and talk to 0:01:02.880 --> 0:01:06.240 us about her great podcast up on the Athletic Podcast Network, 0:01:06.480 --> 0:01:07.160 The play Callers. 0:01:07.160 --> 0:01:08.120 We'll talk to her about. 0:01:07.880 --> 0:01:10.920 Mike McDaniel, Vic Fangio and much much more from the 0:01:10.920 --> 0:01:13.959 Baptist Health Studios Inside the Baptist Health Training Complex. This 0:01:14.240 --> 0:01:20.240 is the Draft Time Podcast Maye Gaffy. Let's welcome in 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:23.839 my guest today from the Athletic Jordan Rodrieg and as 0:01:23.920 --> 0:01:26.720 promised earlier this summer, joining me once again is the 0:01:26.760 --> 0:01:29.480 athletics Jordan rod Reig. You can find her on the 0:01:29.560 --> 0:01:32.520 RAMS beat, but this summer she authored up the play 0:01:32.560 --> 0:01:34.720 Callers podcast. If you haven't had a chance to hear 0:01:34.760 --> 0:01:37.880 that yet, pause this podcast, go back and binge that, 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.199 and then come back and listen to us here because 0:01:40.200 --> 0:01:43.679 she detailed the Shanahan coaching tree, including some great insight 0:01:43.720 --> 0:01:46.600 on our very own Mike McDaniel. Jordan, thank you again 0:01:46.680 --> 0:01:48.640 so much for coming back on the podcast with us. 0:01:48.800 --> 0:01:50.800 Oh this was a must. We talked about this, I 0:01:50.840 --> 0:01:52.880 mean you were you kind of were the first one 0:01:52.960 --> 0:01:55.560 that had the news of that this was even happening 0:01:55.600 --> 0:01:58.000 way back when we were doing team previews because I 0:01:58.080 --> 0:02:00.720 kept it so under wraps for the last year. Really, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:04.000 so i appreciate you working with me on the logistics, 0:02:04.040 --> 0:02:06.080 and I'm really excited to talk to you about it today. 0:02:06.720 --> 0:02:08.840 Those long term projects are always so funny to me, 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:10.520 and I'd love to hear your take on it because 0:02:10.560 --> 0:02:13.000 every time I do one. I love it in the beginning, 0:02:13.280 --> 0:02:14.800 I despise it in the middle, and then I get 0:02:14.880 --> 0:02:16.720 very excited by the end to push through. But then 0:02:16.800 --> 0:02:19.560 also keeping it under wraps. For someone that loves to 0:02:19.639 --> 0:02:21.799 kind of like, you know, tell people good news or 0:02:21.840 --> 0:02:23.720 fun things I'm working on, it's got to be tough 0:02:23.760 --> 0:02:24.680 to keep that in the chamber. 0:02:24.760 --> 0:02:27.600 No. Yeah, it was difficult a lot of times too. 0:02:27.880 --> 0:02:29.680 It was like I really wanted to explain you know, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:32.280 RAMS fans are very passionate and they're very dialed in 0:02:32.720 --> 0:02:36.079 to the happenings of their team, Like these are our 0:02:36.160 --> 0:02:38.800 fans that are as I'm sure Dolphins fans are too. 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.560 You know, they know like the six string safety who's 0:02:42.600 --> 0:02:45.080 like a bubble guy, and they're tracking his every move 0:02:45.120 --> 0:02:47.280 and like all this stuff. And so I like to 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:50.240 be very detailed in my reporting. And it's it's funny 0:02:50.240 --> 0:02:54.280 because I would be on the road for expanses of time, 0:02:54.360 --> 0:02:56.760 so I would be kind of dark on RAMS stuff 0:02:56.760 --> 0:02:59.959 and on other NFL stuff, and I always want to 0:03:00.280 --> 0:03:03.160 say like, no, it's for a good reason, like or 0:03:03.240 --> 0:03:05.640 explain what you know, but you but then you're like, nope, 0:03:05.680 --> 0:03:08.840 that would be totally beside the point. Of launching this, 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:11.960 but yeah, over the last year it's it was quite 0:03:12.000 --> 0:03:15.919 the quite the endeavor, and you know, a lot went 0:03:15.960 --> 0:03:17.919 into it, So I'm glad it seems to be resonating 0:03:17.919 --> 0:03:18.359 with people. 0:03:18.919 --> 0:03:19.720 No, it definitely is. 0:03:19.760 --> 0:03:21.520 And like we've talked about some of the major you know, 0:03:21.560 --> 0:03:24.000 publication podcasts that you and I both listened to, and 0:03:24.040 --> 0:03:25.639 one that you go on frequently is the Around the 0:03:25.720 --> 0:03:28.200 NFL podcast, and they gave you a bunch of run 0:03:28.240 --> 0:03:30.400 on that talking about how great it was, and pretty 0:03:30.480 --> 0:03:33.120 much everyone that I've come across in this in this league, 0:03:33.120 --> 0:03:35.800 in this business, this industry has similar things to say. 0:03:35.800 --> 0:03:38.320 So it's the play callers on the Athletic Go. 0:03:38.320 --> 0:03:40.000 Check it out if you have not heard it already, 0:03:40.320 --> 0:03:43.000 and we're having you on here basically talk about Mike McDaniel, 0:03:43.040 --> 0:03:46.360 who is continues to fascinate me in so many ways 0:03:46.360 --> 0:03:50.360 for his football intellect, for his witty banter at press conferences, 0:03:50.440 --> 0:03:52.360 Like you know, I know that he's close friends with 0:03:52.480 --> 0:03:55.960 Dan Soder, the great comic. I feel like Mike must 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.280 work with Dan on his crowd work because Mike is 0:03:58.320 --> 0:04:00.960 so damn good at the post even talking to our 0:04:01.000 --> 0:04:02.640 beat guys here and just kind of having some back 0:04:02.680 --> 0:04:05.480 and forth. He's the best, we love him, and I 0:04:05.520 --> 0:04:08.160 want to get your take on him in general. But first, 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:10.880 just kind of the project as a whole when you 0:04:11.000 --> 0:04:12.920 kind of remove yourself from it. Now a couple of 0:04:12.920 --> 0:04:16.040 months after it published, what about the project Jordan really 0:04:16.080 --> 0:04:18.360 stood out to you? Was there like an overarching lesson 0:04:18.800 --> 0:04:21.039 or a takeaway that you took from this podcast after 0:04:21.040 --> 0:04:22.000 getting it all done? 0:04:22.320 --> 0:04:24.839 Well? What I hoped going into it, and it was 0:04:24.880 --> 0:04:28.040 my first time doing something of this scale and also 0:04:28.320 --> 0:04:32.080 within this medium. I chose this medium because I thought 0:04:32.160 --> 0:04:34.400 that it would be really important for people to hear 0:04:34.480 --> 0:04:38.680 these guys in their own voices talking about football and 0:04:38.760 --> 0:04:41.760 about how they innovate or try to and then also 0:04:41.920 --> 0:04:44.680 sort of the dark sides of what it is to 0:04:44.760 --> 0:04:47.359 compete at the highest level and what it can do 0:04:47.480 --> 0:04:51.640 to you mentally and emotionally, and what toll it takes 0:04:51.640 --> 0:04:53.000 on the coach and the players. I thought it was 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:55.320 really important for people to hear that in their own voices, 0:04:55.920 --> 0:04:58.440 and from that, I wanted to tell a story that 0:04:58.640 --> 0:05:02.800 was very malle to how where you were or what 0:05:02.960 --> 0:05:07.160 perspective you came in listening to it with. So what 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:09.200 I mean by that is it was sort of a 0:05:09.320 --> 0:05:12.039 roar shock test in many ways. If you were a coach, 0:05:12.080 --> 0:05:14.440 you interpreted it one way. If you were a fan 0:05:14.520 --> 0:05:16.799 of one of the teams that was of the coaches 0:05:16.800 --> 0:05:19.640 that were in it, a wide variety of head coaches 0:05:19.680 --> 0:05:22.080 from offensive and defensive trees across the league, and then 0:05:22.560 --> 0:05:25.560 you thought about it a different way. If you were 0:05:26.279 --> 0:05:29.640 new to the sport but wanted to learn more, you 0:05:29.720 --> 0:05:33.800 were welcomed into it and thought maybe thought about it 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:37.159 in a different way. I heard from CEOs of companies 0:05:37.400 --> 0:05:41.080 of other sports, of different cross corporations, things like that, 0:05:41.520 --> 0:05:45.040 who also listened to it with an entirely different perspective. 0:05:45.480 --> 0:05:47.800 And that was really my goal coming into it, is like, 0:05:47.880 --> 0:05:50.800 this is a story for you, no matter where you're 0:05:50.839 --> 0:05:56.440 at in terms of your football knowledge or ability or passion, 0:05:56.560 --> 0:05:59.480 because it's a very human story at its heart. And 0:05:59.839 --> 0:06:02.599 I think what I learned from that is just how 0:06:05.600 --> 0:06:09.080 just how important it was for people to interpret it 0:06:09.160 --> 0:06:10.920 in the way that they wanted and in the way 0:06:10.920 --> 0:06:13.640 that they felt that they that they were seeing it 0:06:13.680 --> 0:06:17.160 and hearing it. And the various people I know, we'll 0:06:17.160 --> 0:06:19.760 talk about Mike McDaniel a lot, but it was really 0:06:19.800 --> 0:06:22.720 interesting because I heard such a wide variety of perspective, 0:06:22.920 --> 0:06:24.960 most of it positive about some of the things that 0:06:25.000 --> 0:06:27.560 he said, some of the things that resonated with people, 0:06:27.600 --> 0:06:29.880 some of the things that I've heard really kind of 0:06:29.960 --> 0:06:34.960 cool stories about, like coaches in other sports or even 0:06:34.960 --> 0:06:37.560 at the college level, like playing different clips for their 0:06:37.600 --> 0:06:41.040 teams and for their coaching staffs. Because there's so many 0:06:41.120 --> 0:06:43.719 things that people latch onto within the course of it, 0:06:43.760 --> 0:06:47.240 and I wanted to make that available to people without 0:06:48.000 --> 0:06:51.120 being too broad, because you can cannot possibly tell the 0:06:51.160 --> 0:06:54.200 full story, and a lot of people deserve credit that 0:06:54.240 --> 0:06:56.760 you just are not going to get to through the 0:06:56.800 --> 0:07:01.120 course of a five hour show. But also people were 0:07:01.160 --> 0:07:04.200 able to pull things and extrapolate different things that really 0:07:04.240 --> 0:07:07.359 resonated with them, and that's what I was really hopeful for, 0:07:07.600 --> 0:07:11.720 and it's something I learned and learned for the first time. No, 0:07:11.840 --> 0:07:15.200 but it was a really good, healthy reminder of why 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.840 we are in this why we love this sport, why 0:07:17.880 --> 0:07:20.600 this sport fascinates us, and also sometimes some for some 0:07:20.680 --> 0:07:23.000 of us, it destroys some of the people in it 0:07:23.040 --> 0:07:26.480 as well. And all of this complicated mess is sort 0:07:26.520 --> 0:07:29.280 of highlighted in this series that I wanted people to 0:07:29.720 --> 0:07:31.840 attach to the things that moved them within it. 0:07:32.360 --> 0:07:34.800 Well, I can provide an additional testimony for you. My 0:07:35.520 --> 0:07:38.120 co host on the postgame show down here in South Florida. 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:41.920 We are could not be more diametrically opposed, but we're 0:07:41.960 --> 0:07:44.560 like we have that opposite the tracks type of relationship 0:07:44.600 --> 0:07:46.080 where we just get along so well, but we don't 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:48.880 see things the same way pretty much at all. But 0:07:48.960 --> 0:07:51.080 he doesn't want to hear like I lose him the 0:07:51.080 --> 0:07:53.200 minute I started talking about x's and o's or personnel 0:07:53.200 --> 0:07:54.320 packages or whatever it might be. 0:07:54.560 --> 0:07:55.680 Just he's like, nope, I'm out. 0:07:55.920 --> 0:07:58.440 But he loved the podcast, and he was saying that, like, man, 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:00.720 some of the verbiage these guys kind of goes over 0:08:00.760 --> 0:08:03.280 my head, but I'm still still so fascinated by all 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:04.720 of it. I think that was kind of you know, 0:08:04.760 --> 0:08:06.480 why you're able to take accord with so many different 0:08:06.520 --> 0:08:08.440 fans of you know, people that watch the game in 0:08:08.440 --> 0:08:10.400 different ways. And that's really cool to hear that you 0:08:10.440 --> 0:08:13.000 really crossed over, you know, outside of football and were 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:14.600 able to connect with people that way too. 0:08:14.920 --> 0:08:17.160 The thing that obviously connects I'll go ahead, Jordan, not to. 0:08:17.160 --> 0:08:19.480 Cut you off. But you made such a good comment 0:08:19.520 --> 0:08:22.440 there too, where like one of the biggest things, and 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.680 Mike McDaniel really illustrates this, I think through through the 0:08:25.800 --> 0:08:28.400 arc of the show and speaks on this, I think, 0:08:28.520 --> 0:08:33.440 very very passionately and certainly with great detail in this series. 0:08:33.640 --> 0:08:36.400 Is the importance of what it means and how it 0:08:36.440 --> 0:08:39.520 can alter your career forever to have access to certain 0:08:39.520 --> 0:08:43.240 ideas at a pivotal moment in your life's journey or 0:08:43.240 --> 0:08:46.280 in your works journey. And you know, in part of 0:08:46.320 --> 0:08:48.679 the series we do talk about what it also means 0:08:48.720 --> 0:08:50.800 through where we're at right now with some of the 0:08:51.040 --> 0:08:53.920 poor hiring practices in the league, when people don't have 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:56.600 that access, when they don't start out that way. And 0:08:56.679 --> 0:08:59.680 I think Mike's story is really insightful in this regard 0:08:59.720 --> 0:09:03.040 because because he has a different background coming up, you know, 0:09:03.240 --> 0:09:06.320 socioeconomically and all that, a different background than a lot 0:09:06.360 --> 0:09:08.280 of these coaches who were born and raised in these 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:14.280 football buildings, and he understood early on, by the way 0:09:14.320 --> 0:09:16.800 that he was trying to make himself valuable to Kyle Shanahan, 0:09:17.240 --> 0:09:19.720 he understood how important it would be for him in 0:09:19.800 --> 0:09:24.200 his broader career long term to fight for access to 0:09:24.280 --> 0:09:27.520 those ideas and to put himself in rooms where he 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:30.080 would have access to those ideas. It wasn't it's not 0:09:30.280 --> 0:09:33.840 enough to just get in the door. It's now creating 0:09:33.880 --> 0:09:37.280 more doorways for yourself and then hopefully leaving those doors 0:09:37.280 --> 0:09:38.800 open behind you. 0:09:38.880 --> 0:09:41.000 We mentioned the press conferences, you know, on the top 0:09:41.040 --> 0:09:43.680 of the show here, and that's I think the comment 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:46.000 I most frequently see when he gives one of his great, 0:09:46.040 --> 0:09:48.640 you know, long winded dancers at a press conference is like, 0:09:48.679 --> 0:09:50.520 this guy just does not look like anything we've seen 0:09:50.559 --> 0:09:53.080 before in terms of, you know, head coaching presence, but 0:09:53.160 --> 0:09:54.960 he connects with the guys in such a different way 0:09:55.000 --> 0:09:58.000 that we hear is unanimous across the entire locker room 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:00.160 for how he feels for guys. He got emotion the 0:10:00.200 --> 0:10:02.679 other night talking about Daywood Davis, our rookie receiver who 0:10:02.720 --> 0:10:04.840 had to be taken off on a stretcher, and you 0:10:04.920 --> 0:10:06.960 just you can just feel that compassion every time that 0:10:07.000 --> 0:10:09.440 he approaches the microphone. And you know, for someone like me, 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:11.280 that is really, you know, a pretty emotional guy, like 0:10:11.320 --> 0:10:13.719 it really strikes a chord with me, and I love 0:10:13.800 --> 0:10:14.880 him for that. And you know, he's a little bit 0:10:14.880 --> 0:10:16.440 different than the rest of the guys around him, and 0:10:16.679 --> 0:10:18.959 I thought one of the things that really stood out 0:10:18.960 --> 0:10:21.160 about him that said he was different and the best 0:10:21.160 --> 0:10:24.000 way possible was the first note that I wrote down here, 0:10:24.040 --> 0:10:26.839 I'll listen to the podcast about you know, he had 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.360 this level of humility talking about I think he had 0:10:29.400 --> 0:10:31.040 discovered something, So forgive me, Jordan. 0:10:31.000 --> 0:10:31.719 It was a couple of months ago. 0:10:31.720 --> 0:10:35.560 I listened to this part, but he had mentioned a 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:38.240 weakness they had discovered and the Cowboys front and that 0:10:38.320 --> 0:10:40.480 primetime game for the division or for the playoffs or 0:10:40.480 --> 0:10:43.600 division title late in that that's twenty twelve season, and 0:10:43.640 --> 0:10:45.800 he had kind of figured out something for how to access, 0:10:45.880 --> 0:10:47.800 you know, a part of the defense that they were 0:10:47.840 --> 0:10:50.080 not going to be strong in. And he kind of, 0:10:50.320 --> 0:10:52.960 you know, bookended that by saying that there's a humility 0:10:53.000 --> 0:10:55.640 about you know, the truth of play callers thinking that 0:10:55.679 --> 0:10:57.480 their play call is the reason that you know, this 0:10:57.559 --> 0:10:59.960 play worked or didn't is acid nine. But also like 0:11:00.080 --> 0:11:02.120 I have, you know, here's here's what I did do 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.280 to put my team in the best position. I'm just 0:11:04.360 --> 0:11:07.640 curious how that humility of his but also confidence and 0:11:07.640 --> 0:11:09.600 those two things together came off. When you took when 0:11:09.640 --> 0:11:10.280 you spoke. 0:11:10.040 --> 0:11:12.960 To coach, Yeah, well it was. He was very authentic 0:11:13.000 --> 0:11:16.960 first and foremost. So that was I mean, and he 0:11:16.960 --> 0:11:19.920 he just he took. I think he took the amount 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.640 of time, substantial amount of time. I think he took 0:11:22.679 --> 0:11:27.040 the amount of time to show that it wasn't a 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:29.480 show sort of that he was putting on because I 0:11:29.520 --> 0:11:31.720 think when he's up at the podium or you see 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.520 some of the sound bites that get extrapolated things like that, 0:11:34.640 --> 0:11:36.640 you think, like is this guy for real? Like is 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.959 he always like this? And and but but in over 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:44.160 the course of doing something like this, you understand that 0:11:45.679 --> 0:11:50.280 how genuine that that personality is. I think in that example, 0:11:50.320 --> 0:11:52.000 and then that what you're talking about with humility and 0:11:52.080 --> 0:11:54.120 what he talked about with like ego list play calling 0:11:54.160 --> 0:11:57.760 things like that, that was such a huge theme in 0:11:57.800 --> 0:12:01.000 the series that I think he embodies really well. And 0:12:01.000 --> 0:12:02.880 that's why I was so glad you spoke so openly 0:12:02.920 --> 0:12:05.679 about it. And I'll tell you. I'll tell you why. 0:12:05.840 --> 0:12:10.400 So that play was really smart and special to do 0:12:10.520 --> 0:12:12.760 in game at the NFL level, Like it's something that 0:12:13.559 --> 0:12:18.640 you know NFL play calling offensive or defensive. It's like 0:12:18.760 --> 0:12:22.520 sometimes this like monolith, right, and now where you go 0:12:22.559 --> 0:12:25.160 in and you think you know the things that you're 0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:28.680 going to call. It's why these call sheets are so detailed. 0:12:28.760 --> 0:12:31.640 It's why they spend so much time arguing debating over 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.000 play calls. You go in with your A plus game plan, 0:12:35.120 --> 0:12:38.040 your B game plan, your C different adjustments, like you 0:12:38.120 --> 0:12:40.199 go in with all of those things, but there are 0:12:40.240 --> 0:12:42.480 going to be things that teams throw at you that 0:12:42.520 --> 0:12:46.480 you're not prepared for. And in this case, you know, 0:12:46.720 --> 0:12:49.000 we see a lot of times if a team sometimes 0:12:49.080 --> 0:12:52.840 has to throw out their plan adjusting in real time, 0:12:53.000 --> 0:12:56.320 especially in the NFL and especially back then. Now, I 0:12:56.360 --> 0:12:58.320 think there's a lot more coaches that do this very 0:12:58.320 --> 0:13:00.959 well as this younger generation and also the Andy Reids 0:13:00.960 --> 0:13:02.839 of the world and Phil Belichick's of the world and 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:04.720 the Sean Payton's of the world are still holding it down. 0:13:04.720 --> 0:13:08.960 But like I think, you start seeing these monoliths sort 0:13:09.000 --> 0:13:13.040 of like avert courses before they hit the iceberg, basically 0:13:14.120 --> 0:13:20.000 in a much more obvious way. But when the part 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:21.560 of the reason why it was so important that he 0:13:21.640 --> 0:13:25.160 was able to do that, just to change the way 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:27.240 that they were trying to their front structure that they 0:13:27.240 --> 0:13:32.520 were trying to attack them. Was a simple adjustment, but 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.800 it was an empowering one, not only because of how 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.920 relatively low he was at that time on the coaching staff, 0:13:38.360 --> 0:13:41.040 but also because it worked and it was a it 0:13:41.120 --> 0:13:45.280 was a fix that somebody who again was not the 0:13:45.360 --> 0:13:48.720 OC that was not the quarterbacks coach. You know, he 0:13:48.920 --> 0:13:51.640 was a quality control guy who came up with that 0:13:51.800 --> 0:13:53.880 adjustment and that idea. And that's part of the reason 0:13:53.880 --> 0:13:56.760 why it was so important, because something's so small from 0:13:56.800 --> 0:13:59.520 somebody and I say this respectfully of that time relative 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.960 sort of significance in the hierarchy of the staff was 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.080 able to avert the course of the ship for that moment, 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:10.720 right or divert it. And that was super significant. But 0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:16.880 it also explains how football is because you know, you hear, like, 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:18.679 I heard from a lot of coaches from across the 0:14:18.720 --> 0:14:22.200 country about the show, and I heard from a bunch 0:14:22.240 --> 0:14:26.720 of high school coaches about that moment specifically, and they 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:29.360 were talking to me about how like, that's something that's 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:34.360 pretty prevalent at the high school level, including that specific adjustment. Now, 0:14:34.840 --> 0:14:38.760 because you have to work with whoever you have so 0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:41.120 often at the high school level, and you have to 0:14:41.200 --> 0:14:44.560 figure out how to be constantly pivoting because you're not 0:14:44.680 --> 0:14:48.280 picking and choosing million dollar athletes like you're got your teaching, 0:14:48.320 --> 0:14:50.720 You're also teaching these guys in like pe class right, 0:14:51.320 --> 0:14:54.440 there's no trademarket, right, Yeah, And like I thought that 0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:57.960 was such a cool Like Mike McDaniel when he told 0:14:57.960 --> 0:15:03.120 that story, embodied so much about the ecosystem that football 0:15:03.360 --> 0:15:07.920 is and the variety of perspectives that exist within scheme 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:11.160 within that ecosystem. Because to them, they were like, well, 0:15:11.160 --> 0:15:14.200 why wouldn't he make that adjustment, you know, but to 0:15:14.640 --> 0:15:17.320 but to that within the structure and hierarchy of an 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:22.000 NFL staff, you know, several levels above and the monolithic 0:15:22.080 --> 0:15:25.640 sort of qualities of those things, that was like an 0:15:25.640 --> 0:15:29.320 incredible moment. But it doesn't take away from how empowering 0:15:29.360 --> 0:15:31.080 it was for him and how life altering it was. 0:15:31.840 --> 0:15:35.000 But also at the same time, it totally displays and 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:37.600 demonstrates what this series is about. It's how football works 0:15:38.160 --> 0:15:40.800 and how everything in it sort of interconnects and clashes 0:15:40.840 --> 0:15:43.200 with itself. And Mike McDaniel I thought in that story 0:15:43.240 --> 0:15:46.760 specifically and also carrying that with him and remembering how 0:15:46.760 --> 0:15:49.520 that felt, but not letting it overpower him, and in 0:15:49.600 --> 0:15:52.600 terms of that sort of that ego of the victory 0:15:52.640 --> 0:15:55.240 in that moment, like not letting that forever overpower him, 0:15:55.280 --> 0:15:57.120 Like I think all of it, all of it at once, 0:15:57.240 --> 0:15:58.400 it was, it was right there. 0:15:59.240 --> 0:16:01.680 It makes me very exp to see how he grows 0:16:01.720 --> 0:16:04.000 and adjusts, you know, his approach in year number two, 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:07.160 because he was very forthright about the differences of going 0:16:07.200 --> 0:16:09.880 from you know, a run game cordior to offensive coordinator 0:16:09.880 --> 0:16:11.400 to head coach in a matter of two years or 0:16:11.440 --> 0:16:14.320 I guess three total total seasons, but two years on 0:16:14.360 --> 0:16:16.520 the calendar, and how he had to learn how to 0:16:16.560 --> 0:16:19.040 be more present because these you know, particular meetings with 0:16:19.080 --> 0:16:21.120 people are they hold more gravity when you're the head man, 0:16:21.160 --> 0:16:23.800 Like you are the guy that everyone's looking to for answers, 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:26.280 whereas otherwise you might be the one, you know, looking 0:16:26.320 --> 0:16:27.520 up for answers from someone else. 0:16:27.560 --> 0:16:30.960 And so he talks about his growth and adjustments. 0:16:30.360 --> 0:16:33.640 And you you touching on you know, the value as 0:16:33.680 --> 0:16:35.320 a QC or when he was you know, lower on 0:16:35.360 --> 0:16:37.440 the coaching rung. It makes me think about the guys 0:16:37.480 --> 0:16:39.480 that he has on staff here that he would probably 0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:42.800 use as resources to you know, not think that, you know, 0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.280 talking about the delegation of putting different tasks to different 0:16:45.320 --> 0:16:47.840 people and just rounding out a coaching staff full of 0:16:47.840 --> 0:16:50.600 guys that can provide input and give him quality advice. 0:16:50.760 --> 0:16:52.400 I'm excited about that because I like a lot of 0:16:52.400 --> 0:16:54.200 the guys we have here in terms of just who 0:16:54.240 --> 0:16:56.840 he's cultivated from former players and guys that he's kept 0:16:56.840 --> 0:16:58.880 from previous regimes. It's a good staff that all kind 0:16:58.880 --> 0:17:01.640 of seems to be growing within the same direction. And 0:17:01.680 --> 0:17:05.000 then he also touched on Zach Seeler's contract extension as 0:17:05.000 --> 0:17:07.639 a good example for the rest of the roster and 0:17:07.680 --> 0:17:10.600 how here's a guy that was cut in December back 0:17:10.600 --> 0:17:13.000 in twenty nineteen, picked up on waivers, and all of 0:17:13.040 --> 0:17:15.119 a sudden, here he is having a flourishing career at 0:17:15.160 --> 0:17:17.760 the Miami Dolphins. I like that example probably sets itself 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:19.640 pretty well for how those guys under him had worked. 0:17:19.640 --> 0:17:21.120 Don't you see that? Does that kind of make sense 0:17:21.160 --> 0:17:21.359 to you? 0:17:21.760 --> 0:17:25.879 Yeah? Absolutely, I mean I think he gravitates toward people 0:17:25.880 --> 0:17:28.160 who show their work. I think all of these guys do. 0:17:28.680 --> 0:17:30.480 I mean, you kind of see it in the players 0:17:30.520 --> 0:17:33.959 that they are, you know, trying to bring in and 0:17:34.200 --> 0:17:38.000 core people on their teams. I think that Mike is 0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:41.439 alongside because that's this is how they were all shaped 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:45.600 formatively in the most malleable points of their careers as 0:17:45.640 --> 0:17:49.480 young coaches, showing their people who show their work, show 0:17:49.480 --> 0:17:53.119 their process, gravitating toward players who do that as well. 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:56.400 You can all see this, and how they've hired out 0:17:56.440 --> 0:17:59.240 their staffs, how they've sort of cross pollinated their staffs 0:18:00.160 --> 0:18:03.000 because it's a very specific personality type and it trickles 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:06.280 into the roster too. You know. They they want to 0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:11.080 see how like every single step of how the sausage 0:18:11.119 --> 0:18:14.240 gets made, essentially, like not just because they're the ones 0:18:14.440 --> 0:18:17.240 making it, but also because they want to see and 0:18:17.320 --> 0:18:19.879 troubleshoot every piece of the of the process. And so 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:22.359 like you, I think that he when you talk about 0:18:22.359 --> 0:18:24.600 you know, this contract extension and all that, like you 0:18:24.680 --> 0:18:29.080 see him gravitate toward people who are on a similar 0:18:29.160 --> 0:18:32.680 sort of journey in terms of that process and being 0:18:32.840 --> 0:18:37.480 very very immersed in that specifically less so the contract 0:18:37.560 --> 0:18:40.840 itself or the sort of results itself, but like very 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.960 very immersed in the why of every step in a journey, 0:18:43.960 --> 0:18:45.320 whether it's a player or a coach. 0:18:46.160 --> 0:18:46.760 I was curious. 0:18:46.800 --> 0:18:48.520 There was a point in the podcast where he talked 0:18:48.520 --> 0:18:52.359 about how press conferences bored him to death previously, and 0:18:52.400 --> 0:18:53.840 I wrote that down in my notes and I was 0:18:53.880 --> 0:18:55.560 wondering if he'd come back to it, but he didn't. 0:18:55.760 --> 0:18:57.159 Did he follow up on that with you at all? 0:18:57.160 --> 0:18:59.760 About just press commerces before he was a head coach? 0:18:59.800 --> 0:19:01.640 Maybe after the fact you just talk about it at all. 0:19:02.200 --> 0:19:05.199 Yeah, it's interesting. That was an interesting moment to me 0:19:05.320 --> 0:19:09.359 because it was like he knew he was different and 0:19:10.520 --> 0:19:12.840 this was the only way. And like I said, these 0:19:12.960 --> 0:19:18.360 NFL buildings, they can be so monolithic, right, And there's 0:19:18.440 --> 0:19:21.000