Speaker 1: So I saw a shark tank trailer. Yeah, what was
Speaker 1: the most like surprising thing about it? Um? How kind?
Speaker 1: Mr wonderful? Actually? How soft he is? I guess he is. Yeah,
Speaker 1: he's a really nice guy. Did it give you any
Speaker 1: flashbacks to your y C days and the panic days
Speaker 1: of early entrepreneurship. Yes, And that they do about forty
Speaker 1: five minutes of shooting for seven minutes of airing. And
Speaker 1: so if the entrepreneur makes a mistake, and there are
Speaker 1: a few of these, it's totally fine. I'm Tony how
Speaker 1: was a product editor Square and the four of us
Speaker 1: came together about six months ago to work on software
Speaker 1: for small business owners. That's the application video Tony Shoe
Speaker 1: and his door Dash co founders submitted to get a
Speaker 1: ticket into why Combinators prestigious startup accelerator. Back fast forward
Speaker 1: nearly ten years later, and Doortosh has gone from a
Speaker 1: struggling food delivery story to a public company that's the
Speaker 1: US leader in delivery. But the big question facing companies
Speaker 1: now is how to navigate a potentially prolonged economic downturn.
Speaker 1: Joining me on this edition of Bloomberg Studio one Point Oh, Doortosh,
Speaker 1: CEO and co founder Tony Shoe. Tony, it's so great
Speaker 1: to see you in person. Um. You went public in
Speaker 1: the pandemic. We're talking remotely, UM, but there's nothing quite
Speaker 1: like an in person interview, So thank you for being here.
Speaker 1: It's great to be here. You basically grew up in
Speaker 1: a restaurant, as I understand it. What was it like
Speaker 1: leaving China, moving to Illinois and starting this new life.
Speaker 1: It was a classic immigrant story in many ways, I
Speaker 1: would say, looking back, almost a fairy tale like journey,
Speaker 1: where you know, my parents came to the US with
Speaker 1: two or fifty dollars in the bank. We immigrated to Illinois, Champagne, Urbanna.
Speaker 1: My dad got his degree at the University of Illinois.
Speaker 1: My mom put food on the table by working three
Speaker 1: jobs a day, one of which did happen to be
Speaker 1: in a Chinese restaurant where I moonlighted as a dishwasher.
Speaker 1: So I got to hang out with mom that way
Speaker 1: as a way of growing up, and I did that.
Speaker 1: I mowed lawns, and that's really kind of how I
Speaker 1: saved up money to buy Nintendo games and do all
Speaker 1: the things that were the wonders of my childhood. What
Speaker 1: do you think you learned from that, you know, mowing
Speaker 1: lawns early, washing dishes early. I think two things. You know,
Speaker 1: one looking backwards, it's just that you have to work
Speaker 1: to actually get things done. I didn't understand what it
Speaker 1: meant to live off of food stamps um, to buy
Speaker 1: groceries or free and reduced lunch you know every day
Speaker 1: inside school. Um, but it was a very empowering feeling
Speaker 1: to buy my own Nintendo or earn my way to
Speaker 1: buy my first Apple computer. The second thing was really
Speaker 1: just the power of independent thinking. You know, my parents
Speaker 1: because they were so busy just trying to make a
Speaker 1: life for our family that I was largely left alone.
Speaker 1: So I grew up um, playing basketball, watching TV. That's
Speaker 1: how I learned English. I grew up moving around a
Speaker 1: lot as a kid, and as a result, I think
Speaker 1: that gave me a lot of time to realize that
Speaker 1: it's pretty important to think for yourself. So you studied
Speaker 1: engineering at Berkeley, went to business school at Stanford, and
Speaker 1: you actually started out as an intern at Square I did.
Speaker 1: I I can't tell you how many people have said
Speaker 1: to me, Tony Shoe was my intern. That's where like,
Speaker 1: that's how long I've been doing this and how you know,
Speaker 1: doortash just kind of came out of nowhere. Yeah, I
Speaker 1: you know, it was It was actually a pretty stiff
Speaker 1: competition between finishing school, Jack Dorsey and Keith. We're trying
Speaker 1: to convince me to leave Stanford and work at Square
Speaker 1: full time. It was a fun and busy period of
Speaker 1: my time, but but I enjoyed both. So how did
Speaker 1: the idea for doortosh come about? And the decision to
Speaker 1: not work for you know, Jack Dorsey and Square, which
Speaker 1: I'm sure was also kind of intoxicating, right. The idea
Speaker 1: for DoorDash really came from this, you know, lifelong interest
Speaker 1: in helping these physical business owners, really people like my mom.
Speaker 1: So we talked to hundreds of small business owners and
Speaker 1: it was surprising to us that even in delivery was
Speaker 1: not a solved problem. There were business owners who would
Speaker 1: show us literally booklets of delivery orders that they would refuse.
Speaker 1: I mean, we we're talking about thousands of dollars per week,
Speaker 1: which is you know, the difference sometimes between making payroll
Speaker 1: and and actually you know, surviving, and they would just
Speaker 1: turn them down because they were delivery orders, which to
Speaker 1: us was a really novel and unfortunate phenomenon and frankly
Speaker 1: unnecessary one. And that really became, you know, the impetus
Speaker 1: to start Tordosh. You started out driving for competitors, right,
Speaker 1: I was driving for a lot of different services to
Speaker 1: try to actually understand you know, logistics. You know, my background,
Speaker 1: as you mentioned more engineering math, I thought I was
Speaker 1: going to be a cancer these dreaman that's pretty much
Speaker 1: what I spent all of my undergraduate days at Berkeley doing.
Speaker 1: Um that kind of one eight into a world of business.
Speaker 1: But and so I think it's really important to really
Speaker 1: learn things for yourself, you know, to think from first
Speaker 1: principles kind of you know, again back to that independent
Speaker 1: thinking mindset I talked about as a child growing up,
Speaker 1: and try for uber Lift, I even drove for you
Speaker 1: know services they were a little bit older, you know,
Speaker 1: services like FedEx or Dominoes and really try to explore,
Speaker 1: you know, how does delivery work. And it was really
Speaker 1: trying to understand you know, every component part. I mean,
Speaker 1: it sounds really simple, right, bring you a burrito from
Speaker 1: point A to point B, but there were actually twenty
Speaker 1: steps involved in that delivery. It just didn't appear as
Speaker 1: obvious to the naked eyes. Of the first two years
Speaker 1: of door to ashes life, we did delivers almost every
Speaker 1: single day. So where did you go from there? I mean,
Speaker 1: I mean early days. I know Elon Musk has said
Speaker 1: starting a company is like swallowing glass and staring into
Speaker 1: the abyss of death. One of the first ones came
Speaker 1: actually as early as month three of the company's life,
Speaker 1: so we were maybe eleven weeks twelve weeks old as
Speaker 1: a company. Um, there was a big Standford football game
Speaker 1: in September and you know, long story short, we were
Speaker 1: laid on every single order and we had no ability
Speaker 1: to turn off the site. So it was just horrendous.
Speaker 1: Everyone in the company, all twelve of us, were delivering
Speaker 1: and everyone you know, rightfully so was furious because of
Speaker 1: how late we were. And so we had a decision
Speaker 1: to make, you know, do we do the right thing
Speaker 1: and refund you know, every single customer, which would have
Speaker 1: cost us about our bank account, um, or do we
Speaker 1: you know, do a less right thing and and survive
Speaker 1: another day because it was very hard for us at
Speaker 1: that time to raise capital, which you know was something
Speaker 1: true for Doordash's early history. And you know, it took
Speaker 1: us about thirty seconds to click submit refund, and you
Speaker 1: know the lesson for us always as a founding team
Speaker 1: and frankly even today as a as a company, as
Speaker 1: we'd rather die chasing excellence than lived to be mediocre.
Speaker 1: It wasn't so obvious either in the in the earlier years.
Speaker 1: I remember you did a down round. I think you
Speaker 1: actually came on the show around that time. How did
Speaker 1: you weather the doubters and the you know, the people
Speaker 1: who didn't believe There were about a thousand days in
Speaker 1: the desert between seventeen and eighteen. Sometimes with company building, UM,
Speaker 1: so long as you can convince yourself because time is
Speaker 1: your most precious resource, you should keep going. And if
Speaker 1: you can keep going long enough, you might get lucky
Speaker 1: enough to make it so over time, How did you
Speaker 1: balance quality with the need and desire to scale and
Speaker 1: then scale globally? In these types of businesses where it's
Speaker 1: low margin, high complexity, you really have to figure out
Speaker 1: what your unit of business is. You know, for us,
Speaker 1: that was a city. So in order to before going
Speaker 1: to seven thousand or ten thousand cities globally, we made
Speaker 1: one city work. And after city one worked, we made
Speaker 1: city to work. And after we started getting higher and
Speaker 1: higher confidence that we can make baskets of cities work
Speaker 1: irrespect of the geographies or what you know, the customer
Speaker 1: situation look like, or what the merchant makeup was. Then
Speaker 1: we gained the confidence to actually roll out everywhere. Then
Speaker 1: came the pandemic. Um Brian Chesky has said the pandemic
Speaker 1: was like a torpedo for Airbnb. Was it like the
Speaker 1: opposite for Doorda? It was like the biggest wave behind
Speaker 1: her back, which you know, had the ability to break us,
Speaker 1: and and and almost did because we grew two x
Speaker 1: in two weeks. We went from a singular US restaurant
Speaker 1: delivery business that's what you and I would be talking
Speaker 1: about in to today five businesses in twenty seven countries.
Speaker 1: You know, much more than just restaurants and and so
Speaker 1: all of that was created in the last two years.
Speaker 1: Georges went public middle of the pandemic, and I remember
Speaker 1: actually you were coming on Bloomberg and the price doubled
Speaker 1: at the open, and we were coming out of obviously
Speaker 1: terrible economic times. You know, the depths of the pandemic.
Speaker 1: What do they feel like when you know you're going
Speaker 1: on into the world starting to sell to public investors
Speaker 1: and the price just doubles. It was certainly very exciting.
Speaker 1: It was exhilarating. You know, it was the first time
Speaker 1: that you know, our company went public, the first time
Speaker 1: that I had ever undergone any of those types of
Speaker 1: experiences before. But at that, you know, in the back
Speaker 1: of my head at you know, it was that saying
Speaker 1: that you're never as good or as bad as they
Speaker 1: say you are, and so just remember that. So tease
Speaker 1: that out for me a little bit, because the big
Speaker 1: question is how much do customers keep ordering out in
Speaker 1: a high inflation environment, how much long term you know,
Speaker 1: sustainability and growth is there. Really, Even though Covid is
Speaker 1: now effectively sustained and we understand how to live with it,
Speaker 1: customers are continuing to order Those that joined us during
Speaker 1: the pandemic, they're still ordering out about the same rights
Speaker 1: as those who joined us before the pandemic. And that's
Speaker 1: because eating out and getting things delivered are pretty complimentary.
Speaker 1: On the second point around inflation, you know, I can
Speaker 1: say then the last sixty years, and looking at the data,
Speaker 1: spend in restaurants and engross have only declined in two
Speaker 1: of those sixty years, including high inflationary times, much higher
Speaker 1: than what we observe today. And so what I think
Speaker 1: I take um, you know, solacen, even though I see
Speaker 1: the fact that there is high inflation, is that customers
Speaker 1: are going to continue spending on food, and our job
Speaker 1: is to bring greater and greater affordability. More broadly, the
Speaker 1: economy is in a tough position. Your competitors have announced
Speaker 1: layoffs and hiring freezes and slow downs. Is door dash
Speaker 1: considering any of these? And I think we've been fortunate
Speaker 1: mostly because most of our investments that happened during the
Speaker 1: pandemic really were meant to build new businesses, and those
Speaker 1: new businesses have continued to grow. New businesses, you know,
Speaker 1: beyond restaurants in categories like grocery, convenience, um or retail,
Speaker 1: new businesses overseas. You know, we announced a large acquisition
Speaker 1: Involt where that really helped double our overall addressable market
Speaker 1: to seven million people. New businesses and building an advertising business,
Speaker 1: new businesses, expanding our services and building a platform to
Speaker 1: help businesses build their own digital operations. Do you see
Speaker 1: dortosh is more of a super app of the future
Speaker 1: or is it something different? Well, I see Doortash as
Speaker 1: really solving two problems. You know. Problem one is how
Speaker 1: do we bring incremental demand to all the physical businesses
Speaker 1: as they kind of figure out their own digital in
Speaker 1: house capabilities. And the second problem we're trying to solve
Speaker 1: is bring tools to these businesses. There's still a lot
Speaker 1: of competition and delivery. Who do you think survives the
Speaker 1: delivery wars? Who doesn't and why? Well, delivery is a
Speaker 1: scale economies game. You know, at the end of the day,
Speaker 1: you can survive even doing deliveries. From a singular story,
Speaker 1: you know, there's still mom and pop pizza shops and
Speaker 1: Chinese restaurants that do their own delivery. Do you see
Speaker 1: dortash as a challenger to like Walmart, Amazon, Well, I
Speaker 1: see doortash Um, you know, as a champion of local
Speaker 1: businesses and physical businesses. I don't think that a world
Speaker 1: in which we just get what we want to buy
Speaker 1: or consume for a few places is a world that
Speaker 1: again is as worth enjoying living in it. For our
Speaker 1: job is to make sure that all of these businesses,
Speaker 1: all of the millions of physical businesses globally, can continue
Speaker 1: to compete. I do a lot of door dash helps
Speaker 1: me be a working mom whenever I interview you. I
Speaker 1: get pings from dashers and some of them say they
Speaker 1: don't get paid enough. Some of them seem pretty angry.
Speaker 1: What's your response to them. We want the local economy
Speaker 1: to grow and to thrive. That includes dashers. We have
Speaker 1: three million dashers that come to the platform every single quarter,
Speaker 1: and so it's really important to me what they say.
Speaker 1: And it's in fact why you know the company myself included,
Speaker 1: we still Dash do deliveries. In other words, once a month.
Speaker 1: You still do deliveries once a month. It's why we
Speaker 1: have a Dasher Community Council that we started three four
Speaker 1: years ago. Now, I want to see one of your
Speaker 1: memos after a delivery? Are you like sending notes? I'm texting.
Speaker 1: It's not even after the delivery. I'm texting, you know,
Speaker 1: not texting while I'm driving, but texting after after I
Speaker 1: complete the order from your deliver rais what have you learned? Everything?
Speaker 1: All of the details, everything from you know, pay considerations,
Speaker 1: um UM, everything from UM operations at a store. You
Speaker 1: know which stores are a bit faster in their operations
Speaker 1: or more consistent, which stores are are less consistent. Where
Speaker 1: do you find the last parking space? In downtown San Francisco. UM,
Speaker 1: all of these details matter. They matter for efficiency, they
Speaker 1: matter for driver pay, they matter for merchant earnings. And
Speaker 1: so as a result, you know, what I say to
Speaker 1: dashers is please continue to talk to me. I'm just
Speaker 1: Tony at door Dash, and we're always trying to, you know,
Speaker 1: make things better. We're not saying that we're perfect, but
Speaker 1: when we look at um, you know the data that
Speaker 1: we've collected, you know, the average dasher is making an
Speaker 1: hour nationwide when they're on when they're doing deliveries and
Speaker 1: so and most ashes are pretty satisfied. So door Dash
Speaker 1: has been expanding internationally. Sounds like you're on the road
Speaker 1: a lot. I'm on the road. I am on the
Speaker 1: road u as Canada, Australia, at Japan, where elsewhere? Next? Germany,
Speaker 1: you know, Israel, Finland, UM, a lot of the Nordics. UM. So,
Speaker 1: so we're in we're in twenty seven countries, UM and
Speaker 1: and and a lot of that is run by you know,
Speaker 1: the Volts team that we were lucky to partner with.
Speaker 1: Beyond volt How are you thinking about M and A.
Speaker 1: Are there any verticals or areas in particular where you
Speaker 1: might be interested in acquiring. You know, we have five businesses,
Speaker 1: the US restaurants business, the new Categories business with a
Speaker 1: focus on comedians and grocery non US international twenty seven countries,
Speaker 1: are B two B business, and our ads business. So
Speaker 1: we have quite a full plate on M and A. Specifically,
Speaker 1: it's a high bar. M and A. I think sometimes
Speaker 1: looks a lot better on paper than can be achieved
Speaker 1: in reality. And I think it's because you're talking about,
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, combining human organizations, not
Speaker 1: just businesses or products or lines on a spreadsheet. I
Speaker 1: think you have to deliver upon that promise, and so
Speaker 1: for us the bar isn't just does it add to
Speaker 1: our business, but does it a actually add to our culture.
Speaker 1: You've been piloting rapid delivery, right, rapid delivery, But rapid
Speaker 1: delivery seems to be contracting. What are you seeing in
Speaker 1: your pilots? Is this some where you think you'll expand
Speaker 1: or no? So I think customers are always going to
Speaker 1: have expectations that go in one direction, right. I don't
Speaker 1: think we're going to want things delivered more slowly over time,
Speaker 1: or at higher prices or with less selection. Our core
Speaker 1: use case right now is lunch and dinner, which is
Speaker 1: highly repetitive, highly profitable, which allows us to invest in
Speaker 1: things like fast deliveries. You bought Chowbotics last year but
Speaker 1: shut it down. This is robotics, robotic kiosks, right. Um,
Speaker 1: I'm curious how you're thinking about AI and um, you
Speaker 1: know Uber shut down it's self driving stuff. Then they've
Speaker 1: started it back up. Um, you know, how are you
Speaker 1: thinking about AI and moonshots and some of this, you know,
Speaker 1: potential new technology and how it could help door dash
Speaker 1: or not? Like is it is it just not ready
Speaker 1: for prime time when it comes to platform shifts or
Speaker 1: new technology use AI, autonomy, you know, other types of technologies.
Speaker 1: I tend to like to make the investment. I think
Speaker 1: that's a more appropriate choice to not miss the shift. However,
Speaker 1: I think it's very important to get the pacing right.
Speaker 1: I still think that the merits behind what you know,
Speaker 1: we were trying to do in partnership with the Chabotics team,
Speaker 1: was was the right idea in which we can help
Speaker 1: restaurants effectively build you know, a cheaper cost product. That's
Speaker 1: ultimately what we were trying to do, but we weren't
Speaker 1: ready yet with the technology. You recently joined Metas board.
Speaker 1: What's it like working with Mark Zuckerberg. It's been fantastic,
Speaker 1: you know, it's been a terrific learning experience, you know,
Speaker 1: learning from Mark all the way to the incredible management
Speaker 1: team at that company. It's has a broad mandate of
Speaker 1: different products and as well as initiatives, and it's been
Speaker 1: a privilege. Facebook and that are very controversial platform. Um,
Speaker 1: there's you know, controversy about whether Facebook is really good
Speaker 1: for the world, whether Facebook should have as much power
Speaker 1: as it should. How do you think about that? And
Speaker 1: how are you advising Mark about how to use that power.
Speaker 1: With great power comes great responsibility. And I think Facebook
Speaker 1: has a lot of influence UM and met as you know,
Speaker 1: different properties as as you know, I'm sure you cover
Speaker 1: you know, served billions of people you know, every single day,
Speaker 1: and and and that that that's an enormous privilege and
Speaker 1: an enormous responsibility that they take incredibly seriously. Like should
Speaker 1: any company be more powerful than multiple governments combined? I
Speaker 1: don't think I see it, you know, exactly that way, right,
Speaker 1: because it's still a contract between between you know, the
Speaker 1: company and its users. I think what's important for men
Speaker 1: to do and they're doing this absolutely is how do
Speaker 1: we set the guard rails, you know, to make it
Speaker 1: fair safe for everyone? And this is very, very very difficult.
Speaker 1: You're also an investor a number of different startups. One
Speaker 1: of them is I'll yes, Web three company, any plans
Speaker 1: to accept crypto, any plans for DoorDash to accept crypto.
Speaker 1: Crypto right now is going through a period where it's
Speaker 1: trying to, you know, figure out what's next in terms
Speaker 1: of its use case. You know, I think everyone myself included,
Speaker 1: very bullish on the technology of what the blockchain enables.
Speaker 1: What do you think could be the future of blockchain
Speaker 1: technology in food delivery and delivery in general. Well, I
Speaker 1: I don't know if it's going to get applied directly,
Speaker 1: you know, to food or or or to delivery. I mean,
Speaker 1: I think, you know, it absolutely has the potential to
Speaker 1: create a new economic infrastructure, right and economic structure that
Speaker 1: can really serve as the basis for new banking systems
Speaker 1: um um in etcetera. And so I think that's something
Speaker 1: more that's tangential to the world of delivery. Obviously, payments
Speaker 1: is one part of of what we do, but it's
Speaker 1: not the central thing. So we're gonna do a little
Speaker 1: rapid fire, a little quicker fun questions. Favorite food I've
Speaker 1: ordered from eleven d different doorsh restaurants, So I actually
Speaker 1: like to try everything. Your business, idol. There are people
Speaker 1: in retail that I've admired. You know, the people that
Speaker 1: founded um everything from Walmart to Costco, UM, the team
Speaker 1: in Amazon, you know, in e commerce, the team UM
Speaker 1: Elon Musk and what he's trying to do. What about
Speaker 1: Elon must buying Twitter? If he has time to to
Speaker 1: to run a third company, I think that'd be fantastic
Speaker 1: for the world. You grew up in Illinois, you live
Speaker 1: in California. You like basketball? Ye, favorite team Warriors. I
Speaker 1: grew up in the golden days of Michael Jordan's you
Speaker 1: know Scottie Pippen and and actually you know both the
Speaker 1: early nineties as well as the later nineties in which
Speaker 1: they won three in a row. I'm still a Bulls diehard,
Speaker 1: even though we're in a rock patch right now. I
Speaker 1: wo you also like to run. You run marathons? Well,
Speaker 1: I don't run marathons today, so just to be clear,
Speaker 1: but I do run every day. So that's been my sanctuary,
Speaker 1: if you will, for the past ten years, Okay, you're
Speaker 1: still pretty young. How do you think having kids has
Speaker 1: changed you as a leader? You know, I think kids
Speaker 1: are amazing in that they're experiencing the world for the
Speaker 1: first time, being able to listen versus to you know,
Speaker 1: talk at or to dictate an opinion. You know. I
Speaker 1: think that's been, you know, a big lesson. I think
Speaker 1: the second one is the power of curiosity. You know, kids,
Speaker 1: especially my kids at their ages of two and four,
Speaker 1: are asking the question why a lot, and I think
Speaker 1: it's the best question, and it's so hard to answer
Speaker 1: because you know, it requires clarity of thinking on everything,
Speaker 1: on the most basic things, too more complicated things. How
Speaker 1: has being an Asian American CEO impacted your experience? Well,
Speaker 1: I think being an Asian growing up where I was
Speaker 1: the only Asian um and that was kind of my
Speaker 1: experience in Illinois certainly had a big experience and where
Speaker 1: um it very directly. You know, um, I saw firsthand,
Speaker 1: you know, whether it was bullying or discrimination. But but
Speaker 1: I think if I were more broadly classify that to
Speaker 1: the privileged position that I'm in today, I'm still a
Speaker 1: minority in the sense that there aren't as many Asian
Speaker 1: American CEOs or founders as maybe founders from other backgrounds,
Speaker 1: And so I think it's that reminder to you know,
Speaker 1: one always recognized that. And then I think, secondly to
Speaker 1: always keep the underdog mentality. Do you think you faced
Speaker 1: more challenges than others because Asian American CEOs are so
Speaker 1: under represent Asian Americans are underrepresentative in leadership roles in
Speaker 1: tech full stop? I can't say that, um, you know,
Speaker 1: for me personally in building door dash was that the experience?
Speaker 1: But look, I think it's your your writing calling out
Speaker 1: when I look around me and when I look at
Speaker 1: especially public company UM founder CEO as well, hey there
Speaker 1: aren't that many be when you start filtering for you know,
Speaker 1: those from Asian descent, it's a it's a much much
Speaker 1: smaller list. And so I take that with you know,
Speaker 1: great pride. I also take it with great responsibility really
Speaker 1: and again remembering to invest in those who maybe don't
Speaker 1: come from privileged backgrounds, giving them an equal shot at it,
Speaker 1: and to always to stay hungry. You change your name
Speaker 1: to Tony when you moved to the U S. You're
Speaker 1: five years old, after Tony Danza, who was the star
Speaker 1: of Who's the Boss. Correct. I loved that. I did
Speaker 1: you know, no one could pronounce my Chinese name, and
Speaker 1: so I said, okay, well let's just make it easier.
Speaker 1: And so I walked with my dad to the immigration
Speaker 1: office and legally changed my name. Did life change? Did
Speaker 1: it feel like life changed? After that? It felt a
Speaker 1: lot easier to say, Hi, I'm Tony, UM. What's it
Speaker 1: like being the boss? Now? Okay, Honestly, I think I
Speaker 1: don't see myself that way, and and I recognize that
Speaker 1: that's probably not how others view me. But I really
Speaker 1: view myself as a teammate. And you know, for me,
Speaker 1: I think it's trying to make that actually true, make
Speaker 1: the reality of how I feel true to the perception
Speaker 1: that maybe others have of me as the boss, and
Speaker 1: and making that distance shorter and shorter. Bloombrook Studio One
Speaker 1: Point I was produced by Lauren Ellis and edited by
Speaker 1: Matthew Soto. I'm Emily Chang, your host and executive producer.
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening. The Sad Shad sh