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Speaker 1: Conversations on life, style, beauty, and relationships. It's the Velvet's

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Speaker 1: Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson.

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Speaker 2: Okay, it's the month of Love and we've been talking

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Speaker 2: a lot about love and relationships and sex and all

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Speaker 2: the things we miss in our society as far as

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Speaker 2: how to do it, and a lot of the conversation

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Speaker 2: and relationships these days tends to be around attachment style.

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Speaker 2: So I have had a couple people on the podcast

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Speaker 2: that talk about anxious attachment, but I've had so many

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Speaker 2: requests from you guys wanting to know more about avoidant

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Speaker 2: attachment style. So Coach Ryan Holly, relationship and dating expert,

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Speaker 2: it's here to talk with us about that today.

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Speaker 3: Hi, Coach Ryan, Hey, how you doing.

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Speaker 2: I love I refer to you as my friends. I'm

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Speaker 2: like Coach Ryan said X, Y and Z all the time.

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Speaker 2: You're like a new part of my friend circles, conversation.

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Speaker 3: Happy to be so well.

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Speaker 2: The reason I was so drawn to your work is

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Speaker 2: because you do these videos on well, I've seen them

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Speaker 2: on Instagram. I know they're on TikTok as well well.

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Speaker 2: But they state the basics and also kind of the

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Speaker 2: intricacies of attachment style in a way that is so

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Speaker 2: digestible to me and doesn't like overwhelm me. It's it

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Speaker 2: just makes it easier to understand. And so I messaged

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Speaker 2: you and I was like, are you a recovering avoidant?

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Speaker 2: Like how do you know so much about avoidant attachment?

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Speaker 2: So tell us a little bit about the work that

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Speaker 2: you're doing with your clients and just how you're getting

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Speaker 2: into like so much talk about avoidant attachment.

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Speaker 3: Well, you know, I do specialize focus on attachment when

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Speaker 3: it comes to relationships and dating. And no, I'm not

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Speaker 3: a recovering avoidant. I have just had experiences with them

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Speaker 3: in my life and you know, long long healed from

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Speaker 3: that stuff, but I generated a fascination with it. Ended up,

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Speaker 3: you know, pursuing this after doing tons of research and

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Speaker 3: hiring a licensed psychotherapist as a you know, a coach

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Speaker 3: and mentor to myself, ended up, you know, going down

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Speaker 3: this route and becoming a relationship and dating coach myself.

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Speaker 3: And since attachment is such an important part of relationships,

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Speaker 3: it really help understanding. It really helps give you a roadmap,

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Speaker 3: a framework of understanding what is and understanding what's your

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Speaker 3: own stuff, what is from the other person, what motivates

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Speaker 3: people to behave the way they do. Where does it

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Speaker 3: come from? It helps you navigate and understand a relationship

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Speaker 3: as well as your your own life, because when people

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Speaker 3: don't have that roadmap, they tend to often engage in repetitive,

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Speaker 3: maladaptive behaviors, things that are actually harming you when you're

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Speaker 3: when you're really trying to you know, forward, forward with

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Speaker 3: a healthy relationship. So yeah, understanding attachment really is a

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Speaker 3: really key part to becoming a healthier person yourself and

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Speaker 3: maintaining a healthy relationship. So that's that's why it's been

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Speaker 3: such a hot topic these days.

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Speaker 2: Well, I love that you just mentioned. The reason that

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Speaker 2: people should look at this stuff is because you can

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Speaker 2: find yourself any perpetual cycles of just the same behavior,

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Speaker 2: and it's like you're doing a different relationship with a

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Speaker 2: different person, but it looks the exact same. So can

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Speaker 2: you kind of explain, like, what is an attachment style?

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Speaker 2: Do we all have them?

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Speaker 3: Everybody has one? Okay, now there are really three main

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Speaker 3: attachment styles. Well it's actually two main ones. Let me explain.

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Speaker 3: So they're secure, secure base are people that you know,

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Speaker 3: everybody has their insecurities, don't misunderstand everybody on earth has insecurities,

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Speaker 3: but people that are secure based, they have the skills

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Speaker 3: to self regulate. They have the skills to manage relationships

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Speaker 3: in a responsive way, not a reactive way, meaning they're

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Speaker 3: using their logical brain to handle situations, not so much

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Speaker 3: your emotional brain. They're not letting the emotions control them.

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Speaker 3: People that are insecurely attached. Now, insecurely attached is the

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Speaker 3: other main one, but there's really two. There's avoidant and

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Speaker 3: anxious attachment that are within the insecure spect Now, attachment

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Speaker 3: it comes from childhood, is learned from childhood. It is

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Speaker 3: a learned behavior. It is not who you are as

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Speaker 3: a person. Like any learned behavior, it can be unlearned.

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Speaker 3: As a child, you don't have much control over your life.

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Speaker 3: Your parents tell you when you can eat, your parents

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Speaker 3: tell you when you're going to school, what you're wearing.

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Speaker 3: So the one thing that you do have the ability

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Speaker 3: to do is to manage your interaction and your relationship

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Speaker 3: with your parents and do it in a way that

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Speaker 3: protects you as a child from whatever is going on.

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Speaker 3: And you're born with your temperament. Everybody's born with that,

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Speaker 3: So you take your temperament, your environment and that's where

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Speaker 3: attachment is learned. So people that have childhoods where they

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Speaker 3: may have been chaotic parents were not emotionally available, there

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Speaker 3: could have been trauma. Maybe not trauma, maybe just emotional distance.

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Speaker 3: That can create someone to either go down anxious or

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Speaker 3: an avoidant route, and the person will help whether they

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Speaker 3: gravitate towards anxiety, anxiousness or avoidance.

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Speaker 2: So your personality dictates that.

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Speaker 3: It helps you. Okay, Okay, it's not the only factor.

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Speaker 3: Your environment plays a role, but your personality, the.

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Speaker 2: Way you respond to your environment. Okay, that makes sense

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Speaker 2: to me. Okay, so you're in your childhood, all these

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Speaker 2: things are happening, and then because of whatever effect it

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Speaker 2: has on you, you begin to respond to people in

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Speaker 2: relationships in this certain type of attachment.

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Speaker 3: Style you do. And your attachment style really is a

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Speaker 3: reactive behavior. Yeah, you're not really thinking about it logically.

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Speaker 3: You feel an emotional stimulus and then you do a

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Speaker 3: behavior just based on the emotion. And that is what

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Speaker 3: protected you as a kid. But as an adult, if

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Speaker 3: it's insecure, that is, it can lead to harmful behaviors

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Speaker 3: that hurt yourself, hurt your relationships, and confine yourself in

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Speaker 3: the cycle that you don't know why, but it just perpetuates.

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Speaker 3: Having an understanding of attachment really helps you open your

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Speaker 3: eyes and really see what's going on within yourself and

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Speaker 3: others and make better informed decisions and be able to

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Speaker 3: better navigate a relationship.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I love the point you made too, because

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Speaker 2: I have had a friend, a couple of friends actually

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Speaker 2: going through certain things and they're like, I know, this

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Speaker 2: is just like my anxious attachment, And I'm like, no,

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Speaker 2: anyone in that situation would feel anxious, Like just because

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Speaker 2: you're secure doesn't mean it takes away normal human emotion, right,

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Speaker 2: But you're explaining it in such a good way to

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Speaker 2: where you say, when you know the attachment style is

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Speaker 2: activated is because it's so reactive, like you can't regulate yourself,

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Speaker 2: you can't calm yourself down.

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Speaker 3: Yes, both anxious people and avoidance when they have the

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Speaker 3: emotional trigger, they react right, act them different ways to

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Speaker 3: the same anxiety. Because keep in mind, anxiety is at

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Speaker 3: the core of insecure attachment, whether it's a or anxious.

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Speaker 3: So people that are avoidant, their natural tendency on how

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Speaker 3: to deal and cope with emotional and relationship stress is

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Speaker 3: to not deal with it, to dodge it, push it away.

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Speaker 3: They don't like to face their feelings, they don't like

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Speaker 3: to face their fears, and they tend to shut down

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Speaker 3: and run away from confrontation. Then they tend to when

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Speaker 3: they feel their fears triggered, they tend to shut down

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Speaker 3: and run away. In general, their whole method of coping

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Speaker 3: is to not cope essentially, But you know, running away

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Speaker 3: from a problem in life tends to not make it

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Speaker 3: go away. If anything, it can get bigger and bigger

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Speaker 3: and bigger. So a reaction would be, let's say, a

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Speaker 3: typical provoking emotional trigger could be that the relationship is

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Speaker 3: going well and because of their insecurities, feeling like they're

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Speaker 3: not good enough for a healthy partner and avoidance and

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Speaker 3: reaction is they feel anxiety because they feel like, ultimately

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Speaker 3: this person's going to figure out I'm not good enough.

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Speaker 3: They're going to abandon me, they're going to reject me.

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Speaker 3: So the reaction to the feeling is to shut down,

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Speaker 3: pull away, and possibly even end the relationship as a

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Speaker 3: way to protect themselves from the inevitable abandonment.

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Speaker 2: So even when the relationship of going well, though, because

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Speaker 2: that seems so counterintuitive.

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Speaker 3: The better the relationship is, the more they run from it,

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Speaker 3: the severe avoidance that is because they feel unsafe and

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Speaker 3: healthy relationships, and they feel very safe in toxic relationships.

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Speaker 3: It's not that they consciously think to themselves that they

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Speaker 3: want a toxic relationship, but they do gravitate towards them,

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Speaker 3: and that's because the deep down core wounds that they

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Speaker 3: have from childhood. Typically, an avoidant did not receive a

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Speaker 3: lot of love and affection from parents, that they feel

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Speaker 3: like they're unlovable and because they didn't get love as

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Speaker 3: a child, not in the way that they needed, so

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Speaker 3: they carry that through to adulthood feeling less than not worthy.

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Speaker 3: So when a healthy partner comes along, they feel like

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Speaker 3: they're not worthy of this, not worthy of being treated

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Speaker 3: that well. And keep in mind, the avoidant, the way

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Speaker 3: that they operate is to put a castle wall around

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Speaker 3: their around their heart. They don't let anybody. They're what

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Speaker 3: you call emotionally unavailable people. Now they can seem like

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Speaker 3: they are at the beginning, but at the end, they

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Speaker 3: really aren't. Now with a toxic partner, a toxic partner

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Speaker 3: is generally somebody who is emotionally unavailable themselves. So the

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Speaker 3: avoidant does not feel pressure to be emotionally available for

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Speaker 3: a partner that is also emotionally unavailable.

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Speaker 2: It don't feel.

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Speaker 3: Pressure to be vulnerable for somebody who is not vulnerable

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Speaker 3: with them. That makes them feel safe. Plus, the toxic

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Speaker 3: partner is nothing all that special, and the avoidant doesn't

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Speaker 3: have the fear of abandonment from somebody that's not that special. Now,

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Speaker 3: with a healthy partner, a healthy partner is emotionally available.

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Speaker 3: A healthy partner is also emotionally vulnerable, and the avoidant

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Speaker 3: feels an unspoken pressure to be emotionally available and vulnerable

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Speaker 3: with the toxic I mean with the healthy partner, and

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Speaker 3: that makes them feel unsafe. So subconsciously, deep down, in

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Speaker 3: a healthy relationship, avoidants feel emotionally unsafe, and in the

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Speaker 3: toxic relationship, they feel quite comfortable and safe. So that's

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Speaker 3: why you'll see many people that are severely avoidant. They

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Speaker 3: will refuse to commit or put a label on a

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Speaker 3: relationship with a healthy partner, But then they can jump

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Speaker 3: into a toxic partner relationship with like a narcissist or

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Speaker 3: borderline or something like that, and they can immediately commit.

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Speaker 2: They can immediately commit. Sorry, I just love that, just

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Speaker 2: like threw me. Oh, I have so many questions.

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Speaker 3: Because the person's toxic and it makes them feel safe.

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Speaker 2: So then they're safe because it's the familiar. I also like,

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Speaker 2: I'm curious if if they were in a relationship, if

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Speaker 2: someone has an avoidant attachment or an unhealed avoidant attachment.

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Speaker 2: Let's say, and they're meeting someone secure, they're in this relationship,

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Speaker 2: they're going back and forth. Is it common then because

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Speaker 2: the secure partners wanting a healthy relationship for them to

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Speaker 2: kind of sabotage the relationship to make it.

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Speaker 3: Toxic, not necessarily sabotage to make it toxic. What they'll

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Speaker 3: do is they'll just abruptly end it.

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Speaker 2: That of nowhere, there's gone.

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Speaker 3: So it's gone. Like everything seems fine. It's an excess

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Speaker 3: the honeymoon phase. The secure partner feels like they have

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Speaker 3: met their their their match, their person.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 3: And then one day, and usually after a significant event

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Speaker 3: like you know, you went on a long vacation together

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Speaker 3: that went well, or you just met each other's families,

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Speaker 3: and one day, out of the blue, the avoidance sends

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Speaker 3: a text, I can't give you what you need. You know,

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Speaker 3: I'm not ready for a relationship and that's it, and

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Speaker 3: they give you no other answer than that they run away,

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Speaker 3: They cowardly lock. That's it. They're gone.

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Speaker 2: And so that's why the person on the other side

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Speaker 2: of that is like, wait, what, like it's just blindsided. Yeah. So,

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Speaker 2: I think the interesting thing about attachment and the way

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Speaker 2: that we're seeing it play out on social media is

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Speaker 2: often it's kind of the avoidant is the villainized person,

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Speaker 2: and then the anxious side is not necessarily talked about

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Speaker 2: that way. I mean, I think both are starting to

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Speaker 2: be talked about a little differently where it's like, no,

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Speaker 2: both of these are not healthy in a relationship. But

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Speaker 2: I do feel like the avoidant gets a little more

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Speaker 2: villain and I'm assuming it's because the painful behavior like

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Speaker 2: just up and leaving a normal relationship or any like

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Speaker 2: just kind of what the nature of their attachment style

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Speaker 2: playing out looks like. Is that true or why is

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Speaker 2: that that the avoidant gets so villainized The.

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Speaker 3: Avoidant gets villainized. Yes, that's true. And now keep in

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Speaker 3: mind both severely anxious and severely avoidant attachments are toxic

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Speaker 3: for relationships. There's different issues that they cause. The reason

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Speaker 3: the avoidant gets villainized, there is a couple reasons for it. Okay,

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Speaker 3: they're the ones that abruptly end a relationship that seems good.

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Speaker 3: The anxious person doesn't do that. That is the avoidant

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Speaker 3: that does the discard, as it's called, because when avoidance

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Speaker 3: break up, they typically don't break up with you. They

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Speaker 3: discard you. And why it's called the discard is because

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Speaker 3: it is you didn't see it coming. It's unilateral, there

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Speaker 3: were no warning signs, and you were denied a voice

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Speaker 3: and that whatsoever. And often they just ghost to yeah,

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Speaker 3: and every thing seems wonderful. You're having plans to maybe

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Speaker 3: even get married, and all of sudden on they don't

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Speaker 3: even text you or disappeared like like you never existed.

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Speaker 3: So the abrupt, traumatic nature of the way they end

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Speaker 3: it is largely why they get villainized. And also they

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Speaker 3: don't give closure because keep in mind people that are

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Speaker 3: severely avoidant. Self reflection is kryptonite to these people because

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Speaker 3: they spend a lifetime dodging this stuff. They don't want

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Speaker 3: to face their feelings, their fears, because when you self reflect,

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Speaker 3: you have to face your emotions, you have to take

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Speaker 3: ownership of your behaviors, you have to take accountability and

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Speaker 3: that's painful for an avoidant to do because their method

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Speaker 3: of dealing with pain is to avoid it, so they

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Speaker 3: don't self reflect. And because they don't self reflect, it's

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Speaker 3: very difficult for an avoidant person to grow emotionally. They

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Speaker 3: can do it, but they have to force themselves to

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Speaker 3: self reflect in a way they never have. Also, because

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Speaker 3: they don't self reflect, they have a very difficult time

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Speaker 3: expressing their feelings because they feel it, but they don't

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Speaker 3: know how to talk about it since they don't have

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Speaker 3: a process to think about their feelings. As an anxious

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Speaker 3: person can be very smothering in a relationship, which can

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Speaker 3: be very difficult, but an anxious person tends to over

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Speaker 3: self reflect. An anxious person has an easier time healing

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Speaker 3: and becoming more secure than an avoidant person does, and

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Speaker 3: that's because the anxious person is willing to self reflect

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Speaker 3: and the avoidant typically is not.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that makes so much sense. It is hard because

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Speaker 2: it's like obviously up and leaving like a discard, like

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Speaker 2: you say, would be very painful. But the word that

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Speaker 2: keeps coming to my mind is also it just feels

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Speaker 2: dismissive and like the way that that would be if

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Speaker 2: you're in a relationship, feels like, okay, wait, we were

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Speaker 2: just saying we love each other or we care about

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Speaker 2: each other. Obviously we're in a relationship, and then you

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Speaker 2: just are gone like that, or you shut down or

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Speaker 2: you whatever. And so I would imagine it's just like

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Speaker 2: a super dismissive feeling, which is where people are just

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Speaker 2: getting really angry and obviously villainizing the avoidant.

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Speaker 3: And that's why, you know, there's two types of avoidance,

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Speaker 3: and one of them, the primary one, is a dismissive avoidant. Mean,

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Speaker 3: so dismissive avoidance are really essentially pure, pure avoidance. Their

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Speaker 3: coping mechanism is to avoid and dismiss the feelings of

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Speaker 3: the other person. Okay, Now, the other kind of avoidant

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Speaker 3: is a fearful avoidant, which is also known as an

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Speaker 3: anxious avoidant or a covert avoidant, multiple names for it.

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Speaker 3: That is an avoidant that also has some anxious tendencies too.

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Speaker 3: It's actually really disorganized attachment. So early on in a relationship,

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Speaker 3: the fearful avoidant will come across like an anxious attacher.

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Speaker 3: They may seem clingy, they may seem needy, but as

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Speaker 3: the relationship progresses, the anxious switch goes off and the

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Speaker 3: avoidance switch goes on, and then they just essentially become

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Speaker 3: a dismissive avoidant, which can really blindside someone because they

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Speaker 3: might have think they actually found somebody who's anxious, non avoidant,

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Speaker 3: and that's what we can work within a relationship and

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Speaker 3: lo and behold are their horror they find out, Nope,

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Speaker 3: it's just an avoidant.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, go ah else.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, fearful avoidance have a little bit of a different

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Speaker 3: type of childhood than a dismissive avoidant. Dismissive she has

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Speaker 3: a childhood with their parents are just emotionally unavailable. Just

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Speaker 3: a fearful avoidant will typically have a childhood where the

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Speaker 3: parents are emotionally unavailable and are disregulated, where their parents

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Speaker 3: are kind of explosive, a little bit unhidded, So that

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Speaker 3: can create the anxiety as well as the emotional abandonment.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so that's the one we hear about. That's called

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Speaker 2: you said disorganized sometimes too, yes, because you're going back

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Speaker 2: and forth and back and forth. That actually leaves me.

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Speaker 2: A friend of mine who actually requested that I have

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Speaker 2: you on. She said, yeah, I'm just I get so

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Speaker 2: confused because I don't know how to identify which one

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Speaker 2: I am, Like, I know that something is wrong in

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Speaker 2: my dating life, like I keeps she saying what we

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Speaker 2: were saying about, she keeps repeating the same patterns, But

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Speaker 2: she said, I just feel confused, like sometimes I resonate

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Speaker 2: as anxious and sometimes resonate with the avoidant piece. And

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Speaker 2: so maybe it's something like that, like what you're talking about,

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Speaker 2: because explain to me how it can start as anxiousness.

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Speaker 3: Well, the anxious attachment. You know, you learn from a

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Speaker 3: childhood that you are responsible for other people's feelings and emotions,

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Speaker 3: that you take on personal responsibility for it, and you

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Speaker 3: grew up in a more chaotic environment, and it's the

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Speaker 3: people pleaser. You know, you feel like you're responsible for

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Speaker 3: other people's feelings, but your own feelings, if you express them,

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Speaker 3: you're being selfish, you're being you know, you're being bad.

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Speaker 3: So from the chaotic part of their environment that that

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Speaker 3: anxiousness will will come to light. And usually in the

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Speaker 3: beginning of a relationship, Well that's when you want to

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Speaker 3: get the person to like you. You want the validation.

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Speaker 3: So that's why the anxiousness is triggered because it's new,

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Speaker 3: it's fresh and everybody likes to get validated. Everybody likes yeah,

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Speaker 3: So that's that triggers that anxiety within the fearful avoidant

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Speaker 3: early on. And what happens is, though, as the relationship

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Speaker 3: progresses and becomes more real, it's no longer just a fantasy,

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Speaker 3: it's no longer just a romance novel. As it becomes real,

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Speaker 3: that's when the avoidant fears come in. Because this person

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Speaker 3: feels unlovable, they feel unworthy. That stuff gets triggered and

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Speaker 3: then they just turn into a dismissive avoidant essentially, and

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Speaker 3: they do the discard and all that in the same way.

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Speaker 2: So they okay, So they are experiencing anxiety though.

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Speaker 3: Well, actually even dismissive avoidance do absolutely okay. Both anxiously

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Speaker 3: attached and dismissive avoidance they feel anxiety. The difference is

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Speaker 3: how the person reacts to their anxiety. An anxious attachment

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Speaker 3: behaves in a very anxious way, tries to control the situation,

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Speaker 3: tries to manage it, tries to really sink their claws

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Speaker 3: into it, whereas a dismissive avoidance they feel the same

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Speaker 3: amount of anxiety, but their reaction is to try to

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Speaker 3: suppress it, to try to run from it, to not

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Speaker 3: face the problem.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so there's anxiety happening on both sides. It's just

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Speaker 2: the reaction that makes sense. Yes, So I know a

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Speaker 2: lot of people feel like you said earlier, Even anxious

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Speaker 2: anxious attached people tend to have an easier time healing

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Speaker 2: towards a more secure attachment, which is something I resonate

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Speaker 2: with in my life and I've never fully understood why.

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Speaker 2: Like the avoidant attachment partners that I've dated in the

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Speaker 2: past seem to really not want to do any sort

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Speaker 2: of self reflection or whatever. So that's a part of it.

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Speaker 2: But they can avoidant attachments then heal and become secure.

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Speaker 2: Is that possible if they're not willing to self reflect?

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Speaker 3: It is possible. Now, while they're not willing to self reflect,

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Speaker 3: obviously some are and they can heal. So what it

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Speaker 3: really usually takes for an avoidant to get to the

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Speaker 3: point where they are willing to self reflect, where they

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Speaker 3: are willing to make the change and commit to it,

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Speaker 3: they usually have to hit rock bottom. Now rock bottom

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Speaker 3: doesn't mean that they lose their house or job or

365
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Speaker 3: anything of the sort, but what it can mean is

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Speaker 3: they can because of their behaviors. Because of their avoidant behaviors,

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Speaker 3: they could potentially lose or actually lose somebody they really

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Speaker 3: did love and care about, somebody they lost somebody in

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Speaker 3: life that deep down they didn't want to lose because

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Speaker 3: of their own behavior, and that pain can become so

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Speaker 3: great that they say, I don't want to go through

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Speaker 3: this ever again. I'll do whatever it takes, and then

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Speaker 3: they start to actually self reflect and look within. Can

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Speaker 3: they do it? Sure, actually happens more often than people think,

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Speaker 3: But they have to be the ones to want it.

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Speaker 3: It has to come from them. If you're the partner

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Speaker 3: of the avoidant, whether you're secure or anxious, no matter

378
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Speaker 3: how much you beg and plead, if they're not willing

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Speaker 3: to do it, if they don't want it badly, they

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Speaker 3: won't do it. But they want it badly, they can

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Speaker 3: heal and become secure. Absolutely they can't.

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Speaker 2: But it actually a lot of times if you're trying

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Speaker 2: to push someone to get help. I mean this is

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Speaker 2: even just in general in life. It's like whether it

385
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Speaker 2: with addiction or attachment, styllar or whatever, it's like, it

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Speaker 2: does have to be the person's decision. Because I know

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Speaker 2: too there have been times where I've experienced where I

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Speaker 2: was really pushing it, but it almost made it worse

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Speaker 2: for my partner, like they didn't want to do it

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Speaker 2: specifically because I was pushing it. You know what I mean?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely, you're a hundred percent right. And often people's response.

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Speaker 3: Keep in mind insecure a people Now, that can be anxious,

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Speaker 3: people that can be avoidant, and that can also be

394
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Speaker 3: people who have addiction problems and things like that, because

395
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Speaker 3: those all come from insecurities. That's insecure people tend to

396
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Speaker 3: be more fragile, and that's because of their insecurities. The

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Speaker 3: reason why insecure people are fragile is because of their insecurities.

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Speaker 3: Let me explain why people that are insecure assign underlying

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Speaker 3: meanings to things, underlying meanings that don't exist. So let's

400
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Speaker 3: just say in a relationship, for example, you're a married relationship,

401
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:34,359
Speaker 3: and let's say the husband's the husband's job was to

402
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Speaker 3: take out the role at the trash that day and

403
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Speaker 3: he forgot to do so, and the wife, oh, you

404
00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,520
Speaker 3: forgot to take out the trash. Now, the event at

405
00:21:42,520 --> 00:21:45,280
Speaker 3: hand is really just that the trash was not taken

406
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Speaker 3: out right and got missed. But the husband gets all

407
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Speaker 3: defensive yeah, you get defensive just over the trash. And

408
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,280
Speaker 3: when he can easily go, oh, you're right, I forgot,

409
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Speaker 3: he gets defensive because he assigned an underlying meaning. So

410
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Speaker 3: his underlying meaning, which usually is not based in real

411
00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,159
Speaker 3: but it's because of insecurities, will be she's criticizing me

412
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Speaker 3: for the trash because she thinks I'm stupid, she thinks

413
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Speaker 3: I'm not good enough, she thinks I'm not level. Those

414
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Speaker 3: kind of underlying meanings that he's assigned to her displeasure

415
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Speaker 3: over the trash when reality it was just about the trash, right.

416
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Speaker 3: It's the underlying meanings. It's the underlying insecurities that people

417
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:27,720
Speaker 3: assigned to things that makes them more fragile. So when

418
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Speaker 3: you're criticizing, even if it's constructive criticism, when you're criticizing

419
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Speaker 3: someone that's insecure, they don't handle it well because they

420
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Speaker 3: assign an underlying meaning to your criticism and it becomes

421
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Speaker 3: all encompassing. So you may be criticizing one small thing,

422
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Speaker 3: like hey, could you try doing this this way instead,

423
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Speaker 3: and instead of just being about the item at hand,

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Speaker 3: the insecure person will take it as an all out

425
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Speaker 3: assault on them that they are terrible people. Even when

426
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Speaker 3: it's not the case. It's the underlying meaning. So people

427
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Speaker 3: that are insecure apply that, and that's why it's so

428
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Speaker 3: hard to actually criticize secure person haven't take it well

429
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Speaker 3: because they're so fragile.

430
00:23:03,119 --> 00:23:05,520
Speaker 2: Well, and that's the kind of thing too, where the

431
00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:09,520
Speaker 2: underlying message probably wasn't created in that relationship, right, Like

432
00:23:09,760 --> 00:23:11,919
Speaker 2: I'm assuming a lot of times that was often created

433
00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 2: in childhood, and so it's not really something as an

434
00:23:15,280 --> 00:23:18,159
Speaker 2: adult if you're in a relationship with an insecure person

435
00:23:18,760 --> 00:23:21,480
Speaker 2: that you could even fix or like do anything about,

436
00:23:21,520 --> 00:23:24,000
Speaker 2: because you're not even aware it was there because it

437
00:23:24,040 --> 00:23:25,200
Speaker 2: happened so long.

438
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:30,080
Speaker 3: Ago, exactly, and it usually comes from childhood. Now, relationships

439
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:32,320
Speaker 3: and events that happen in our adult lives can deepen

440
00:23:32,359 --> 00:23:35,320
Speaker 3: old wounds, though for sureple Let's take you can have

441
00:23:35,920 --> 00:23:38,200
Speaker 3: a situation where, let's say you have someone who's mildly

442
00:23:38,200 --> 00:23:42,080
Speaker 3: anxious to smiled, go through a relationship or a marriage

443
00:23:42,119 --> 00:23:46,200
Speaker 3: to a narcissist and come out severely anxious. So events

444
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:50,160
Speaker 3: and relationships that you do have as adults can exaggerate

445
00:23:50,280 --> 00:23:53,680
Speaker 3: previous old wounds, but the stuff usually comes from childhood.

446
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:57,080
Speaker 2: That makes sense. Welly, since you mentioned narcissists. Let's talk

447
00:23:57,119 --> 00:24:00,359
Speaker 2: about what is the difference between narcissists and avoidant because

448
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:02,000
Speaker 2: I know a lot of times as are often kind

449
00:24:02,040 --> 00:24:05,359
Speaker 2: of intermingled and there are differences. I mean, I know

450
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:09,360
Speaker 2: some narcissists are some avoidance are narcissists, but not all.

451
00:24:09,520 --> 00:24:11,359
Speaker 2: So can you kind of talk us through that a

452
00:24:11,359 --> 00:24:11,760
Speaker 2: little bit.

453
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:16,399
Speaker 3: Well, the vast majority of avoidance are not narcissists, but

454
00:24:17,320 --> 00:24:21,879
Speaker 3: narcissists at their core are avoids. So now that doesn't

455
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:24,760
Speaker 3: mean that all narcissists behave as avoidant attachers. Some of

456
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 3: them actually can be quite clinging, anxious, or disorganized, but narcissists,

457
00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:35,159
Speaker 3: at their core, they are very, very traumatized, wounded, unhealed people.

458
00:24:35,840 --> 00:24:37,919
Speaker 3: And what they do is they create a false self

459
00:24:37,960 --> 00:24:41,560
Speaker 3: image of this person that is benevolent, that is perfect,

460
00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:45,840
Speaker 3: that makes no mistakes, as charming, charming, witting, witting, smart,

461
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:49,440
Speaker 3: and you know, sassy, sexy, all the positive attributes you

462
00:24:49,560 --> 00:24:51,800
Speaker 3: think of, and that's the image that they project to

463
00:24:51,840 --> 00:24:54,920
Speaker 3: the world. They do that to mask their inner pain,

464
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 3: to avoid it. They don't want to avoid facing their

465
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,800
Speaker 3: inner pain and trauma, so they create this this very

466
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:06,679
Speaker 3: self absorbed persona but as a mask. It's all a

467
00:25:06,680 --> 00:25:08,719
Speaker 3: mask to hide the inner pain, which is essentially a

468
00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:13,960
Speaker 3: method of avoidance because they're avoiding that. Now, narcissists do

469
00:25:14,080 --> 00:25:19,400
Speaker 3: have behavior that can overlap with dismissive avoidance, like discarding

470
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:24,000
Speaker 3: somebody potentially cheating on them, things like that, But there

471
00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:27,720
Speaker 3: are some distinct differences between an avoidant and a narcissist.

472
00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:30,520
Speaker 3: First of all, avoidant attachment is just an attachment style.

473
00:25:30,520 --> 00:25:33,400
Speaker 3: It is a learned behavior that can be unlearned. True

474
00:25:33,480 --> 00:25:39,520
Speaker 3: narcissism is a personality disorder. It's not and can narcissist change.

475
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:42,000
Speaker 3: That's up for debate. There are some self aware ones

476
00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:47,040
Speaker 3: out there, they're far and few between. Now, narcissists tend

477
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:51,080
Speaker 3: to completely lack empathy. They are cold. They don't really

478
00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:53,760
Speaker 3: have the ability to love people. They don't love people.

479
00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:56,240
Speaker 3: They love the attention they get from people. There's a difference.

480
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:00,680
Speaker 3: Whereas the avoidance, dismissive avoidance, fearful avoidance. They can love,

481
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:04,560
Speaker 3: they can feel empathy, and they can heal and change,

482
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:07,679
Speaker 3: and they do so all the time. And they're generally

483
00:26:07,720 --> 00:26:10,479
Speaker 3: are not nearly as cold and nasty and cruel as

484
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:11,359
Speaker 3: a narcissist can be.

485
00:26:12,240 --> 00:26:16,119
Speaker 2: So avoidance do feel empathy though, because that to me

486
00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:21,399
Speaker 2: sometimes like the discard the avoiding behaviors that they do

487
00:26:21,480 --> 00:26:24,240
Speaker 2: because they feel so anxious, like being on the other

488
00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:28,120
Speaker 2: side of that, it doesn't feel like an avoidant has

489
00:26:28,200 --> 00:26:32,359
Speaker 2: any sort of concept what their behavior might make someone

490
00:26:32,359 --> 00:26:33,000
Speaker 2: else feel like.

491
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:39,000
Speaker 3: Okay, so a narcissist when they discard you, they're never

492
00:26:39,040 --> 00:26:41,040
Speaker 3: going to feel bad about it. They're just never right

493
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 3: and avoidance because they're heightened in that avoidance state, they're

494
00:26:45,359 --> 00:26:49,000
Speaker 3: in a reactive mode during that moment when they're discarding you.

495
00:26:49,080 --> 00:26:51,560
Speaker 3: They are avoiding feeling the pain. They're avoiding feeling the

496
00:26:51,600 --> 00:26:55,000
Speaker 3: empathy as right. But as time goes by, that catches

497
00:26:55,080 --> 00:26:57,320
Speaker 3: up with them and they can all feel quite guilty

498
00:26:57,320 --> 00:26:59,720
Speaker 3: for what they did to you, and it can actually

499
00:26:59,760 --> 00:27:02,120
Speaker 3: lead towards them feeling a deeper sense of shame, telling

500
00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,159
Speaker 3: themselves that they're bad people. And shame is actually a

501
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:10,000
Speaker 3: toxic emotion. Regret means well, I did you know feeling guilty?

502
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,639
Speaker 3: Regret that means you did something wrong. That's your your

503
00:27:12,680 --> 00:27:15,199
Speaker 3: mind telling you you did something wrong. Shame, on the

504
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 3: other hand, is telling yourself I am something wrong, and

505
00:27:17,680 --> 00:27:21,920
Speaker 3: that's a toxic emotion. So they absolutely can feel empathy.

506
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:23,439
Speaker 3: The thing is they don't always feel it at the

507
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,520
Speaker 3: appropriate time, but uh, but they do, and they did,

508
00:27:26,560 --> 00:27:28,240
Speaker 3: they did. They can feel empathy in a way that

509
00:27:28,240 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 3: a narcissist simply doesn't.

510
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:33,120
Speaker 2: Is this why I avoidance tend to come back because

511
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:36,000
Speaker 2: it feels like that thing where it's like the discard

512
00:27:36,080 --> 00:27:38,280
Speaker 2: is fast, you don't know what is happening, which you

513
00:27:38,480 --> 00:27:40,119
Speaker 2: I feel like the older I've gotten, the more I'm

514
00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:43,040
Speaker 2: like watching you know, people do this or whatever, and

515
00:27:43,040 --> 00:27:45,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, oh, they'll be back, not just in my life,

516
00:27:45,720 --> 00:27:48,240
Speaker 2: just in general in the world, Like you know, they're

517
00:27:48,280 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 2: coming back at some point. And so is it just

518
00:27:50,119 --> 00:27:52,520
Speaker 2: that their feelings kick in later and then they come

519
00:27:52,560 --> 00:27:54,720
Speaker 2: back And then a lot of times I think it's

520
00:27:54,760 --> 00:27:57,000
Speaker 2: too late or it should be.

521
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,640
Speaker 3: Well, it should be, but yes, it's because so when

522
00:28:00,640 --> 00:28:03,520
Speaker 3: the avoidant does the discard, they're in that height and

523
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,840
Speaker 3: reactive mode. Their emotions are triggered and all they want

524
00:28:05,880 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 3: to do is escape.

525
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:07,360
Speaker 2: Yeah.

526
00:28:07,520 --> 00:28:10,600
Speaker 3: Then after time goes by and they're no longer being

527
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,320
Speaker 3: chased and no longer being pursued, they allow themselves to

528
00:28:13,359 --> 00:28:15,560
Speaker 3: take down that emotional brick wall and they start allowing

529
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,000
Speaker 3: themselves to access their feelings for you again. That's when

530
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:21,240
Speaker 3: they can feel deep regret, deep shame, deep remorse and

531
00:28:21,320 --> 00:28:23,400
Speaker 3: miss you. And that's when they try to come back

532
00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,240
Speaker 3: because they're allowing themselves to access those feelings again. And

533
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:28,480
Speaker 3: it's only when they feel safe and they feel safe

534
00:28:28,480 --> 00:28:31,160
Speaker 3: when they're no longer pressured to be in a relationship

535
00:28:31,160 --> 00:28:31,359
Speaker 3: with you.

536
00:28:31,840 --> 00:28:35,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, but isn't that why the cycle continues, Because then

537
00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,600
Speaker 2: it's like if the other person lets them back in

538
00:28:37,720 --> 00:28:40,480
Speaker 2: without doing any work. I would imagine then the second

539
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:42,480
Speaker 2: they start to get close again, they're gone again.

540
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 3: That's why sometimes, especially if you see some of the

541
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 3: comments on some of my videos, people say, oh, it

542
00:28:48,800 --> 00:28:51,880
Speaker 3: happened for the fifth time, sixth times. Some titan keeps

543
00:28:51,880 --> 00:28:55,080
Speaker 3: on going, which is why I say, well, first of all,

544
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,360
Speaker 3: should anybody ever give an avoidant a second chance? That

545
00:28:59,480 --> 00:29:01,560
Speaker 3: is for that is up to the individual. They know

546
00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,960
Speaker 3: this person can some avoidance change. Absolutely Can they earn

547
00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,960
Speaker 3: second chances and make it better? They absolutely can. It's

548
00:29:07,960 --> 00:29:10,520
Speaker 3: perfectly okay if you feel like this person deserves a

549
00:29:10,520 --> 00:29:13,880
Speaker 3: second chance, But I would not take them back unconditionally.

550
00:29:14,320 --> 00:29:17,959
Speaker 3: I would take them back conditionally. You know, I'm open

551
00:29:18,360 --> 00:29:21,040
Speaker 3: to rekindling this relationship, but this is what I need

552
00:29:21,040 --> 00:29:24,240
Speaker 3: from you, and then some boundaries with this person. You

553
00:29:24,280 --> 00:29:26,520
Speaker 3: know that could include therapy. If you don't go to

554
00:29:26,560 --> 00:29:28,800
Speaker 3: therapy and you can and you don't commit to that,

555
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:31,520
Speaker 3: then I can't be in this relationship. So that's the

556
00:29:31,560 --> 00:29:35,200
Speaker 3: opportunity to capitalize on the fact that the avoidant is

557
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 3: feeling a regret and remorse for hurting you and wants

558
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:40,280
Speaker 3: to fix it and make them commit to doing some

559
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,480
Speaker 3: healing work, because that gives you a better chance to

560
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 3: actually have the second or third go around with the

561
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,080
Speaker 3: relationship be more successful and different because it can They

562
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:51,400
Speaker 3: can do it, but you have. But that's the key

563
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,360
Speaker 3: is that when you do take them back, to make

564
00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:56,360
Speaker 3: sure you're taking them back with conditions set, those boundaries

565
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 3: being what you will and will not tolerate. If you

566
00:29:58,440 --> 00:30:01,080
Speaker 3: take them back unconditionally, just what happened under the rug,

567
00:30:01,080 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 3: You're going to do it to you again most.

568
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:05,400
Speaker 2: Likely, Yeah, I was gonna ask you how If someone's

569
00:30:05,440 --> 00:30:08,120
Speaker 2: listening and they're thinking, okay, maybe this is why my

570
00:30:08,200 --> 00:30:10,680
Speaker 2: relationship has been so crazy As I'm with an avoidant

571
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 2: attachment partner or a votedly attached partner and I want

572
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:19,520
Speaker 2: to set boundaries. Do you have any suggestions? Like is

573
00:30:19,560 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 2: it the therapy? Is this all personal? Is it that

574
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:24,920
Speaker 2: you need to be working with a therapist to come

575
00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:26,920
Speaker 2: up with your own plan? Like what is the best

576
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:28,720
Speaker 2: suggestion you would say to those listeners?

577
00:30:29,120 --> 00:30:31,760
Speaker 3: Well, first of all, what you will and will not tolerate,

578
00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:33,840
Speaker 3: your boundaries, what you will and will not take, what

579
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 3: you want and don't want, or up to each individual person.

580
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:39,200
Speaker 3: I can't tell you what your boundaries are or should be,

581
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:44,040
Speaker 3: because everybody has a different tolerance and desires. But boundaries

582
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:47,040
Speaker 3: don't have to be something that are confrontational, right, So

583
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:49,480
Speaker 3: different examples of boundaries could be like I will not

584
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:51,360
Speaker 3: get cheated on. If you cheat on me, I will

585
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:54,000
Speaker 3: leave the relationship. Or it could be something as simple

586
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:56,400
Speaker 3: as I will not get screamed at if you scream

587
00:30:56,440 --> 00:30:58,800
Speaker 3: at me, I will remove myself from the situation until

588
00:30:58,840 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 3: you calm down and then we can Those are different boundaries.

589
00:31:01,960 --> 00:31:04,360
Speaker 3: Boundaries don't have to be always these big encompassing things.

590
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,240
Speaker 3: They can be small things. But boundaries are really what

591
00:31:07,360 --> 00:31:10,280
Speaker 3: define you as a person. That's how you tell the

592
00:31:10,320 --> 00:31:12,200
Speaker 3: partner in the world who you are, what you want,

593
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:13,600
Speaker 3: what you don't want, what you will take, what you

594
00:31:13,640 --> 00:31:16,280
Speaker 3: won't take, Because if you don't define your boundaries, you're

595
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:18,800
Speaker 3: a blank slate and the other person whatever they want

596
00:31:18,840 --> 00:31:22,760
Speaker 3: to you. And if you don't enforce your boundaries, you're

597
00:31:22,920 --> 00:31:26,320
Speaker 3: essentially canceling yourself. You're telling yourself that your wants, your feelings,

598
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,240
Speaker 3: your needs don't matter. And it's a bad feeling to

599
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:31,560
Speaker 3: let somebody trample over your boundaries because you're telling yourself

600
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:34,320
Speaker 3: you don't matter. But when you do enforce your boundaries,

601
00:31:34,360 --> 00:31:36,160
Speaker 3: even though it's not fun to do so, in the moment,

602
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:38,200
Speaker 3: you do feel better about yourself because you know you

603
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:40,600
Speaker 3: have your own back. You can rely on yourself to

604
00:31:40,640 --> 00:31:42,320
Speaker 3: take care of your own wants and needs even when

605
00:31:42,360 --> 00:31:44,640
Speaker 3: it's difficult, and that's actually a self esteem boost, it's

606
00:31:44,640 --> 00:31:47,840
Speaker 3: a confidence boost. So setting those boundaries doesn't have to

607
00:31:47,840 --> 00:31:50,000
Speaker 3: be confrontational. You can tell the person like, listen, this

608
00:31:50,040 --> 00:31:51,360
Speaker 3: is what I want, this is what I don't want,

609
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:52,880
Speaker 3: this is what I need, that's what I don't need,

610
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,680
Speaker 3: and hey, this dynamic, I need communication from you. If

611
00:31:55,720 --> 00:31:57,800
Speaker 3: you don't communicate with me, that's not something I can do.

612
00:31:58,520 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 3: So there's different boundaries that you can set. Only you

613
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:03,320
Speaker 3: know what is right for you and what you're willing

614
00:32:03,320 --> 00:32:06,080
Speaker 3: to tolerate or not tolerate and tolerate in the relationship.

615
00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:08,920
Speaker 3: And a healthy partner, a person that loves you and

616
00:32:08,920 --> 00:32:11,320
Speaker 3: cares about you, will respect your boundaries and do their

617
00:32:11,320 --> 00:32:14,360
Speaker 3: hardest to honor them. Can a healthy partner sometimes step

618
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 3: over and by accident, sure, but a healthy partner will

619
00:32:16,560 --> 00:32:19,080
Speaker 3: recognize that, take ownership and then try to do better.

620
00:32:19,640 --> 00:32:22,640
Speaker 3: A toxic partner, well, does not care about your boundaries.

621
00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,520
Speaker 3: Toxic partner loves their own boundaries, they don't like yours.

622
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:27,040
Speaker 2: What do you mean by that?

623
00:32:28,160 --> 00:32:31,600
Speaker 3: Like a narcissist for example? Okay, your boundaries, you better

624
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:33,600
Speaker 3: not cheat on them, You better not talk badly to

625
00:32:33,600 --> 00:32:35,440
Speaker 3: them or anything like that. Right, they should be able

626
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:39,400
Speaker 3: to treat you however they want, and here you speak

627
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:40,360
Speaker 3: up if they do anything to you.

628
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:47,480
Speaker 2: Okay, that makes total sense. Okay. So if you're like

629
00:32:47,560 --> 00:32:51,400
Speaker 2: my friend who requested this podcast, and you're thinking, I

630
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,560
Speaker 2: don't know what my attachment style is and I'm feeling

631
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:57,760
Speaker 2: anxious but sometimes I avoid or whatever that would be.

632
00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:00,719
Speaker 2: Do you have suggestions to people of how to figure

633
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:04,000
Speaker 2: out what they are or what their style is.

634
00:33:05,320 --> 00:33:09,440
Speaker 3: Well, it's going to require some self reflection to find

635
00:33:09,480 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 3: out what your triggers are. Look in the past, look

636
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,760
Speaker 3: where you've been triggered and you know it, And are

637
00:33:14,920 --> 00:33:16,840
Speaker 3: are you wanting to shut down? Are you wanting to

638
00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,640
Speaker 3: pull away? Are you wanting to kind of be a

639
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,959
Speaker 3: clinger in the relationship, or are you both? Look at

640
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:25,320
Speaker 3: your own behaviors and your tendencies throughout the past, and

641
00:33:25,360 --> 00:33:27,520
Speaker 3: it's going to give you the road map of what

642
00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,160
Speaker 3: you are. I mean, someone like that sounds like they're

643
00:33:29,200 --> 00:33:33,800
Speaker 3: probably disorganized. Yeah, disorganized doesn't mean you're severely disorganized. You'd

644
00:33:33,840 --> 00:33:37,080
Speaker 3: be mildly disorganized. If you're able to sustain a relationship,

645
00:33:37,160 --> 00:33:40,840
Speaker 3: chances are you're not severe. If you're unable to sustain relationships,

646
00:33:40,840 --> 00:33:43,000
Speaker 3: what chances are you might be a bit more severe.

647
00:33:44,880 --> 00:33:47,320
Speaker 3: But the one way to always whether it doesn't matter

648
00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,360
Speaker 3: whether you're disorganized, doesn't matter whether you're anxious or avoidant.

649
00:33:50,360 --> 00:33:52,680
Speaker 3: If you want to center yourself, which is where everybody

650
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 3: wants to be, you want to be centered and secure,

651
00:33:55,800 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 3: is whenever those stressors arise, whenever the anxiety bubbles out,

652
00:34:00,120 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 3: because it's anxiety, whether it's avoidant or anxious, anxiety is anxiety.

653
00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:06,000
Speaker 3: Is to ask yourself in the moment, how do I

654
00:34:06,120 --> 00:34:09,000
Speaker 3: respond to this rather than react? Just ask yourself that question.

655
00:34:09,200 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 3: When you ask yourself the question, you are shifting yourself

656
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 3: over from your emotional brain to your logical brain, and

657
00:34:14,120 --> 00:34:17,120
Speaker 3: then you can actually respond to it as opposed to reacting.

658
00:34:17,560 --> 00:34:19,800
Speaker 3: When you respond, you're going to make a more confident

659
00:34:19,800 --> 00:34:22,440
Speaker 3: decision no matter what the situation is. You're going to

660
00:34:22,480 --> 00:34:27,160
Speaker 3: be able to better navigate relationships, work, life, everything. Make

661
00:34:27,160 --> 00:34:30,360
Speaker 3: a focus on becoming a responder. Because human beings we

662
00:34:30,440 --> 00:34:32,879
Speaker 3: learn repetition, So when you do a new behavior over

663
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:34,960
Speaker 3: and over again, that's going to become more automatic for

664
00:34:35,000 --> 00:34:37,560
Speaker 3: you and you're going to start feeling more secure. So

665
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:42,480
Speaker 3: when you're feeling anxiety, yes, is it nice to recognize

666
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:44,200
Speaker 3: what your attachment is. Sure, but at the end of

667
00:34:44,239 --> 00:34:46,359
Speaker 3: the day, you know what anxiety feels like. And if

668
00:34:46,360 --> 00:34:49,960
Speaker 3: you can just focus on becoming a responder rather than reactor,

669
00:34:50,520 --> 00:34:53,520
Speaker 3: regardless of your avoidant or if you're anxious or both,

670
00:34:53,880 --> 00:34:56,560
Speaker 3: you can pull yourself into secure zone, which is where

671
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,800
Speaker 3: you ultimately want to be anyway, So recognize anxiety and

672
00:34:59,840 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 3: then and just be a responder to it. It's very simple.

673
00:35:02,440 --> 00:35:04,480
Speaker 3: The only thing that's hard about it is the willpower

674
00:35:04,560 --> 00:35:06,960
Speaker 3: and the dedication to do it consistently. But you do

675
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:09,560
Speaker 3: it consistently, it doesn't take all that long. You start

676
00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:11,280
Speaker 3: to find yourself feeling more and more secure.

677
00:35:11,760 --> 00:35:14,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. The interesting thing, I'm so glad that you're touching

678
00:35:14,760 --> 00:35:16,759
Speaker 2: on the fact that even when you're secure, and you

679
00:35:16,840 --> 00:35:18,640
Speaker 2: kind of mentioned this at the beginning of the podcast, like,

680
00:35:18,920 --> 00:35:22,719
Speaker 2: you still have normal human feelings, you know, like you're

681
00:35:22,800 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 2: gonna have days where you feel anxiety, anxiety, or you're

682
00:35:25,680 --> 00:35:27,239
Speaker 2: gonna get in a fight with your partner and you're

683
00:35:27,239 --> 00:35:30,160
Speaker 2: gonna feel anxious and whatever. But it's for me, it's

684
00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:33,279
Speaker 2: been about how do I go, Where do I go

685
00:35:33,360 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 2: in that moment? Like what am I seeking to make

686
00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:37,759
Speaker 2: me feel better? Because what I used to do when

687
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,200
Speaker 2: I was younger was think that my partner was the

688
00:35:40,239 --> 00:35:43,759
Speaker 2: only route to me feeling better, which is the definition

689
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:48,480
Speaker 2: of anxious attachment basically, and that but that was what

690
00:35:48,560 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 2: I had learned through my life and so over the

691
00:35:51,840 --> 00:35:54,000
Speaker 2: years of doing all the work that I've done on myself,

692
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:58,279
Speaker 2: though I now feel secure and in my last relationships

693
00:35:58,280 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 2: specifically when I would get triggered, it wasn't like I

694
00:36:02,200 --> 00:36:04,320
Speaker 2: never had the feelings that I had in the past

695
00:36:04,560 --> 00:36:07,920
Speaker 2: or the same situations of like, you know, I've been

696
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,480
Speaker 2: cheated on before, so let's use that as an example.

697
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,160
Speaker 2: But like, if something would happen in this relationship, there

698
00:36:13,239 --> 00:36:15,560
Speaker 2: might be a slight trigger where I would go, oh wait,

699
00:36:15,680 --> 00:36:18,719
Speaker 2: is this that thing again? But there were ways for me,

700
00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:21,360
Speaker 2: like I learned enough new tools, even sometimes it was

701
00:36:21,400 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: going on a walk, like to just calm my nervous system,

702
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:28,320
Speaker 2: but learning the new tools to then respond to the

703
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 2: trigger in that way, and then, like you're saying, that

704
00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:35,400
Speaker 2: begins to be what you crave as the response instead

705
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:37,920
Speaker 2: of just like going to the other person, going to

706
00:36:38,040 --> 00:36:41,160
Speaker 2: the fight, going to like all the texting and blah

707
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:43,680
Speaker 2: blah blah, whatever we would do if we were triggered

708
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:47,160
Speaker 2: in our anxious or wooden attachment. Do you have anything

709
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:48,360
Speaker 2: to add to that or did I?

710
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:48,719
Speaker 3: Yeah?

711
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:49,120
Speaker 2: Okay?

712
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,440
Speaker 3: And that's actually very true, is that when you are

713
00:36:52,520 --> 00:36:54,800
Speaker 3: especially when you're an anxiously attached person, you tend to

714
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,440
Speaker 3: become a codependent. You are relying on the other person

715
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:01,520
Speaker 3: to regulate your own feelings. Yes, of the day, we

716
00:37:01,600 --> 00:37:04,480
Speaker 3: are all responsible for our own feelings and our own happiness.

717
00:37:04,960 --> 00:37:07,680
Speaker 3: You cannot make anybody feel anything, and you can't make

718
00:37:07,719 --> 00:37:11,240
Speaker 3: them do anything. You can't make them be happy or sad.

719
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:15,759
Speaker 3: You just can't. I hear somebody who's suddenly became rich

720
00:37:15,840 --> 00:37:18,320
Speaker 3: and got millions upon millions of dollars, but they're still

721
00:37:18,400 --> 00:37:24,759
Speaker 3: miserable because happiness is it's absolutely a choice and one

722
00:37:24,760 --> 00:37:28,399
Speaker 3: of the mistakes that people often have, and unfortunately you'll

723
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,960
Speaker 3: find a lot of it on social media pushing this

724
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:36,120
Speaker 3: idea that you find that you find and get happiness

725
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:40,560
Speaker 3: from another person. So if you are seeking happiness from

726
00:37:40,560 --> 00:37:43,440
Speaker 3: another person, this is what happens. Usually the people that

727
00:37:43,480 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 3: are seeking happiness from another person actually have inner on happiness,

728
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 3: and narcissists are very notorious for this, but other people

729
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,200
Speaker 3: can as well. So you get into a new relationship,

730
00:37:54,200 --> 00:37:56,680
Speaker 3: the dopamine is flying. You're feeling great and you're feeling

731
00:37:56,719 --> 00:37:58,840
Speaker 3: happy because you're in this brand new relationship. You have

732
00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:01,920
Speaker 3: a shiny new toy. Well, the brain begins to regulate

733
00:38:01,960 --> 00:38:05,560
Speaker 3: itself as a relationship progresses, and that unhealed trauma, the

734
00:38:05,719 --> 00:38:08,359
Speaker 3: unhappiness that you have within starts to bubble back up

735
00:38:08,360 --> 00:38:11,320
Speaker 3: to the service. But you're in a relationship with that person,

736
00:38:11,360 --> 00:38:13,960
Speaker 3: so it must be their fault that you're unhappy. So

737
00:38:14,040 --> 00:38:15,399
Speaker 3: then you go to the next one and then you're

738
00:38:15,400 --> 00:38:17,480
Speaker 3: feeling happy again because you got the dopamine flowing from

739
00:38:17,520 --> 00:38:20,919
Speaker 3: the new relationship. When the unhappiness comes back up, well,

740
00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:24,080
Speaker 3: it's their fault. So if you are relying upon other

741
00:38:24,120 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 3: people for your happiness, you're always going to be unhappy

742
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:27,640
Speaker 3: because you're never going to find it.

743
00:38:28,000 --> 00:38:31,319
Speaker 2: That makes so much sense, Yeah.

744
00:38:30,840 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 3: Because the dopamine wears off. Yeah, taking your own responsibility

745
00:38:35,040 --> 00:38:37,920
Speaker 3: for your happiness and realizing that happiness is actually a

746
00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,400
Speaker 3: choice will really help you have a healthier outlook on

747
00:38:41,440 --> 00:38:45,080
Speaker 3: a relationship and understand that your partner's behavior cannot make

748
00:38:45,120 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 3: you happy and they cannot make you sad, just like

749
00:38:47,160 --> 00:38:49,239
Speaker 3: you can't make them happy and you can't make them sad.

750
00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:51,799
Speaker 3: What you can do for each other, however, is you

751
00:38:51,840 --> 00:38:54,080
Speaker 3: can make an environment for your partner that makes it

752
00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:56,440
Speaker 3: easier for them to choose happiness, but you can't make

753
00:38:56,480 --> 00:38:56,960
Speaker 3: them choose it.

754
00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:00,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, let's own to touch really quick too on

755
00:39:00,480 --> 00:39:03,680
Speaker 2: the fact that I know a lot of times before

756
00:39:03,719 --> 00:39:06,440
Speaker 2: we work on healing our attachment styles, we end up

757
00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:09,840
Speaker 2: creating the same relationships over and over, like we've mentioned before,

758
00:39:10,280 --> 00:39:13,720
Speaker 2: And is it true typically that like, an anxious partner

759
00:39:13,760 --> 00:39:16,080
Speaker 2: is always going to pick an avoidant and vice versa,

760
00:39:16,239 --> 00:39:18,960
Speaker 2: or do you like is it double avoidance can sometimes

761
00:39:19,480 --> 00:39:22,040
Speaker 2: end up together? Are two anxious people like? How does

762
00:39:22,080 --> 00:39:25,320
Speaker 2: that work? And are we kind of doomed to always

763
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,720
Speaker 2: repeat the same cycles? And then can we pick secure partners?

764
00:39:29,719 --> 00:39:30,480
Speaker 2: How does that work?

765
00:39:30,960 --> 00:39:34,280
Speaker 3: So, first of all, it is common and very typical

766
00:39:34,320 --> 00:39:37,520
Speaker 3: that anxious and avoidant attract each other. However, there are

767
00:39:37,600 --> 00:39:40,839
Speaker 3: circumstances where anxious and anxious and avoidant and avoidant get

768
00:39:40,880 --> 00:39:43,080
Speaker 3: into relationships with each other. Okay, at the end of

769
00:39:43,120 --> 00:39:45,920
Speaker 3: the day is what is really very common is that

770
00:39:45,960 --> 00:39:50,520
Speaker 3: insecure attracts insecure, and secure attracts secure. So people have

771
00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,040
Speaker 3: a preconceived notion, and the human mind likes to be

772
00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:56,440
Speaker 3: proven right. So somebody who's anxious already has the preconceived

773
00:39:56,480 --> 00:39:58,600
Speaker 3: notion that they are too much in a relationship, that

774
00:39:58,600 --> 00:40:02,319
Speaker 3: they are overwhelming. An avoidant typically has the preconceived notion

775
00:40:02,360 --> 00:40:04,319
Speaker 3: that they are not enough in a relationship and they

776
00:40:04,360 --> 00:40:07,560
Speaker 3: don't give enough. So when the avoidant and the anxious

777
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 3: person get together, the anxious person confirms their fears by

778
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,520
Speaker 3: overwhelming the avoidant, and then the avoidant confirms their fears

779
00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:16,680
Speaker 3: by not being good enough or not doing enough for

780
00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 3: the anxious person. So the human mind, even though it's

781
00:40:19,600 --> 00:40:22,200
Speaker 3: something bad that you don't want, likes to be confirmed. Correct,

782
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:24,759
Speaker 3: You like to be validated. So you're vality yourself by

783
00:40:24,760 --> 00:40:27,560
Speaker 3: picking a partner that confirms your fears. It's all subconscious

784
00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,160
Speaker 3: and it gravitates towards the kind of personality that's going

785
00:40:30,239 --> 00:40:33,640
Speaker 3: to confirm your fears. Now, it's interesting, though very interesting,

786
00:40:33,680 --> 00:40:36,160
Speaker 3: when two avoidants get into a relationship with each other.

787
00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:39,320
Speaker 3: Every person is different, so this is when I'm talking

788
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,879
Speaker 3: about two avoidances two anxious people, I'm talking in very

789
00:40:41,920 --> 00:40:44,600
Speaker 3: generic terms because each individual person is still unique, so

790
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:46,799
Speaker 3: everybody is different. Not everybody behaves in the same way.

791
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:50,840
Speaker 3: But generally, when two avoidants get into relationship, whoever is

792
00:40:50,880 --> 00:40:54,200
Speaker 3: the more mildly avoidant person tends to start to become anxious.

793
00:40:54,920 --> 00:40:57,480
Speaker 3: And then when two anxious people get into a relationship,

794
00:40:57,640 --> 00:41:00,480
Speaker 3: whoever is more mildly anxious tends to start become avoided.

795
00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:04,799
Speaker 2: Okay, so then if we do our work, and this

796
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,280
Speaker 2: is obviously like a selfish question, like we do our work,

797
00:41:08,560 --> 00:41:11,919
Speaker 2: we start resonating as secure, do you feel like you'll

798
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:14,800
Speaker 2: start attracting more secure partners once you get back into.

799
00:41:14,680 --> 00:41:17,560
Speaker 3: Dating, Yes, and you'll be able to also better recognize

800
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:18,520
Speaker 3: the insecure ones.

801
00:41:18,880 --> 00:41:19,120
Speaker 2: Yeah.

802
00:41:19,280 --> 00:41:23,000
Speaker 3: Okay, Now, somebody with mild insecurities does not mean they're

803
00:41:23,000 --> 00:41:23,680
Speaker 3: a bad partner.

804
00:41:23,920 --> 00:41:24,200
Speaker 2: No.

805
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:28,600
Speaker 3: Sure, even with somebody with deeper insecurities can actually still

806
00:41:28,600 --> 00:41:32,360
Speaker 3: be a good partner. The differences If this person has insecurities,

807
00:41:32,960 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 3: are they able to take ownership of it and make

808
00:41:36,280 --> 00:41:40,320
Speaker 3: corrective actions and work towards it. If they're an insecure

809
00:41:40,320 --> 00:41:42,680
Speaker 3: person but they recognize it and they're able to put

810
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,840
Speaker 3: the brakes on themselves and they're working on regulating themselves,

811
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:47,920
Speaker 3: they can be a good partner. It's the ones that

812
00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,480
Speaker 3: stick their head in the sand and don't do the

813
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:54,160
Speaker 3: work that are are going to be the But I mean,

814
00:41:54,239 --> 00:41:57,720
Speaker 3: it's there's some crazy stats out there. There's a recent

815
00:41:57,719 --> 00:41:59,800
Speaker 3: study that was done that shows about fifty percent of

816
00:41:59,840 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 3: the US population men and women are either insecurely attached

817
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:08,640
Speaker 3: or narcissistic. So that's a lot of people, no or

818
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 3: narcissistic or narcissistic. Yes, of the population is more what

819
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:17,440
Speaker 3: you call secure based, So there are a lot of

820
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:19,480
Speaker 3: healthy people out there. The key is to start looking

821
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 3: for red flags and be able to pick up on

822
00:42:21,080 --> 00:42:25,040
Speaker 3: these insecurities, wasting time on the wrong person, because guess what,

823
00:42:25,680 --> 00:42:28,160
Speaker 3: when people show you who they are, believe them. Because

824
00:42:29,280 --> 00:42:31,840
Speaker 3: you're ignoring red flags that you clearly see, Well.

825
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 2: You're going to say the consequences.

826
00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,080
Speaker 3: Usually you do it. Everybody might pop up a red

827
00:42:37,120 --> 00:42:39,279
Speaker 3: flag here and they're even a secure person. But you

828
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:41,399
Speaker 3: know when it's red flag after red flag and you're

829
00:42:41,400 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 3: seeing all these signs, just because you wish this person

830
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:47,600
Speaker 3: to be something different doesn't mean they are. Yeah, And

831
00:42:47,640 --> 00:42:49,520
Speaker 3: I'll tell you the two biggest red flags for somebody

832
00:42:49,520 --> 00:42:53,680
Speaker 3: who's an avoidant, okay, One is when they are fiercely independent,

833
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 3: and often even on their dating profile, they'll boast about

834
00:42:56,520 --> 00:42:59,640
Speaker 3: being fiercely independent. Now sounds like a good thing. People

835
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:02,359
Speaker 3: can eat miss us as a red flag, because being

836
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:04,800
Speaker 3: an independent adult is a good thing. You should be

837
00:43:04,840 --> 00:43:07,320
Speaker 3: an independent, autonomous person. If you're an adult, you should

838
00:43:07,320 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 3: be able to support yourself. It is the insecure avoidant

839
00:43:10,600 --> 00:43:14,600
Speaker 3: that feels the need to assert it because they have

840
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:17,759
Speaker 3: fear of engulfment. They have fear of losing their independence

841
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:20,560
Speaker 3: to a partner who's ultimately going to abandon and reject them.

842
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:24,759
Speaker 3: So they announce their independence because of their insecurities. A

843
00:43:24,800 --> 00:43:27,320
Speaker 3: secure person doesn't feel the need to announce their independence

844
00:43:27,360 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 3: because it should be a given. The analogy I like

845
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:31,920
Speaker 3: to use is if you're a parent, that'd be the

846
00:43:31,920 --> 00:43:35,719
Speaker 3: equivalent of telling people, hey, guess what I feed my kids? Well, yeah,

847
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:38,080
Speaker 3: it's a good thing, But why are you bragging about it?

848
00:43:38,680 --> 00:43:40,160
Speaker 2: Right? Like you should do that anyway.

849
00:43:40,440 --> 00:43:43,080
Speaker 3: Right, So that's the same thing that the avoidant is

850
00:43:43,120 --> 00:43:46,400
Speaker 3: doing there. They're announcing independence when you should be independent,

851
00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:49,120
Speaker 3: as if you're forty years old, you shouldn't be living

852
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:53,080
Speaker 3: in mom's basement. So it's no offense to those who are.

853
00:43:53,480 --> 00:43:59,239
Speaker 3: But so the other red flag that they often tend

854
00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:04,479
Speaker 3: to give is the wall. The guard eve been hurt

855
00:44:04,480 --> 00:44:06,360
Speaker 3: in the past and they have a wall up and

856
00:44:06,400 --> 00:44:08,680
Speaker 3: it takes some time to bring that guard down. What

857
00:44:08,719 --> 00:44:11,120
Speaker 3: they're really telling you is that guard is fort knocks

858
00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:14,120
Speaker 3: and you're not getting in, and that they are emotionally unavailable,

859
00:44:14,680 --> 00:44:18,880
Speaker 3: because a secure person should have a bit of a guard,

860
00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:24,840
Speaker 3: a healthy guard essentially a healthy skepticism going into relationship

861
00:44:24,880 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 3: because you don't know the person yet. But the secure

862
00:44:27,040 --> 00:44:29,200
Speaker 3: person doesn't feel the need to assert it. It is

863
00:44:29,239 --> 00:44:32,400
Speaker 3: the insecure, emotionally unavailable, avoidant that feels the need to

864
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:33,440
Speaker 3: assert about that guard.

865
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:37,040
Speaker 2: The other interesting thing I'm thinking as you say that is,

866
00:44:37,040 --> 00:44:40,759
Speaker 2: isn't it kind of an indicator that someone doesn't have

867
00:44:40,800 --> 00:44:43,440
Speaker 2: a lot of self trust Because if you're putting all

868
00:44:43,480 --> 00:44:46,720
Speaker 2: these boundaries up at the beginning, you're not trusting yourself

869
00:44:46,760 --> 00:44:50,160
Speaker 2: to walk into the relationship and be like, WHOA, that

870
00:44:50,160 --> 00:44:52,960
Speaker 2: feels like a lot I need to take a step back,

871
00:44:53,040 --> 00:44:55,560
Speaker 2: or you know, that feels like it's encroaching on my

872
00:44:55,640 --> 00:44:58,480
Speaker 2: independence or whatever. Like I don't know how to exactly

873
00:44:58,560 --> 00:45:00,400
Speaker 2: makes sense of what is popping up for me, But

874
00:45:01,040 --> 00:45:03,279
Speaker 2: I've found that the more I trust myself to make

875
00:45:03,320 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: good decisions, the more freedom I have in relationships, really,

876
00:45:06,680 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: because I can walk into it without the fear of like,

877
00:45:10,800 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 2: oh but what if this happens or what if they

878
00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:15,759
Speaker 2: get to demanding on me? Then I gotta I'm gonna

879
00:45:15,760 --> 00:45:15,920
Speaker 2: have to.

880
00:45:15,920 --> 00:45:19,840
Speaker 3: Set a boundary, right, Because when people are putting stuff

881
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,240
Speaker 3: out there really asserting their independence, yeah, fears their guard,

882
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:26,640
Speaker 3: what they're really doing is they're telling you I'm insecure,

883
00:45:26,840 --> 00:45:30,760
Speaker 3: Yeah you're going to that You're going to do something

884
00:45:30,840 --> 00:45:36,279
Speaker 3: to push my insecurities to you know, defense, So they're

885
00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:39,040
Speaker 3: really telling you that they're insecure. A secure person doesn't

886
00:45:39,040 --> 00:45:41,680
Speaker 3: feel we need to make those kind of who you know.

887
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:45,800
Speaker 3: A secure person is going to have confidence in themselves

888
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,840
Speaker 3: and trust in themselves to navigate the relationship should anything arise.

889
00:45:51,320 --> 00:45:53,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly, Like when it comes up, then you can

890
00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:56,040
Speaker 2: talk about it or you have the tools to deal

891
00:45:56,080 --> 00:45:58,799
Speaker 2: with it, versus like having to say the thing, the

892
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:02,439
Speaker 2: pre thing or whatever to warn you so that when

893
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:05,280
Speaker 2: it happens you don't have any sort of response.

894
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:07,840
Speaker 3: I guess exactly. So that's the difference. It's not that

895
00:46:07,880 --> 00:46:11,760
Speaker 3: a secure person doesn't feel anxiety. Yeah, a secure person

896
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 3: has the tools in their tool belt. They have the

897
00:46:13,840 --> 00:46:17,680
Speaker 3: weapons in their arsenal to navigate anxiety in a healthy way,

898
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:21,800
Speaker 3: whereas the insecure people have a hard time with that.

899
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:23,600
Speaker 2: That's it. You just said it in the perfect way.

900
00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,120
Speaker 2: This is why I love your work. See you sum

901
00:46:26,239 --> 00:46:28,400
Speaker 2: up everything. I'm thinking. I'm like, that is how I

902
00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,280
Speaker 2: should have said that. Yes, that was great, coach Ryan.

903
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:33,920
Speaker 2: If people want to follow along or they're listening and

904
00:46:33,960 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 2: they're thinking, okay, I need to know a lot more,

905
00:46:35,760 --> 00:46:37,600
Speaker 2: where can they find you?

906
00:46:37,600 --> 00:46:42,040
Speaker 3: You know, they can find me on both TikTok and Instagram.

907
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,840
Speaker 3: You're working towards getting on some other platforms too, but

908
00:46:44,920 --> 00:46:48,319
Speaker 3: you'll find me on both TikTok and Instagram as coach

909
00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:53,600
Speaker 3: Ryan Tryan and I'm posting videos out there every day

910
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,319
Speaker 3: trying to spread as much information as I can. And

911
00:46:56,560 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 3: there's also links in my bios if anybody wants to

912
00:47:00,040 --> 00:47:02,800
Speaker 3: book a session with me is Coach RYANLC dot com

913
00:47:02,840 --> 00:47:05,000
Speaker 3: and I do one on one zoom video sessions.

914
00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:07,239
Speaker 2: With people too amazing. I'll put all of that in

915
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:10,279
Speaker 2: the description of this podcast for you guys. Thank you

916
00:47:10,320 --> 00:47:12,160
Speaker 2: for being here with us. I know a lot of

917
00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:14,400
Speaker 2: people might have questions about a void and attachment, so

918
00:47:14,480 --> 00:47:17,000
Speaker 2: hit up Coach Ryan. I'll put his links again in

919
00:47:17,040 --> 00:47:18,440
Speaker 2: the description of this podcast.

920
00:47:18,520 --> 00:47:21,359
Speaker 3: Thanks Coach Ryan, thank you very much, Thanks for having me.

921
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:24,800
Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to The Velvet's Edge podcast with Kelly Henderson,

922
00:47:25,000 --> 00:47:27,480
Speaker 1: where we believe everyone has a little velvet in a

923
00:47:27,520 --> 00:47:31,680
Speaker 1: little edge. Subscribe for more conversations on life, style, beauty,

924
00:47:31,719 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: and relationships. Search Velvet's Edge wherever you get your podcasts.