WEBVTT - QLS Classic: Kathryn Bigelow 0:00:00.480 --> 0:00:04.240 Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic 0:00:04.280 --> 0:00:10.160 episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen, 0:00:10.200 --> 0:00:14.600 Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme QLs Classic Edition. 0:00:15.360 --> 0:00:19.760 This episode is from August ninth, twenty seventeen, with Katherine Bigelow, 0:00:19.800 --> 0:00:24.400 director Academy Award winning director Katherine Victim. We go through 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:27.600 our entire canon, especially her film Zerolay Dog thirty, The 0:00:27.680 --> 0:00:32.560 hurt Locker Detroit, and an unintentional comedy called Point Breaking. 0:00:32.680 --> 0:00:34.760 We hope you enjoy it. This. This is Quest Love 0:00:35.280 --> 0:00:44.000 Supreme US Classic Edition. Bicky a World Premier. 0:00:45.560 --> 0:00:55.920 Supreme, Sign Supreme, Supreme, Sun Sign Supreme, Supreme Sign Supremo, 0:00:56.120 --> 0:00:59.600 Roll Supreme Sun. 0:00:59.160 --> 0:01:03.200 Supreme to the entire world. Yeah, I grieve you with 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.920 Hello Yeah. Translation to Detroit. 0:01:06.240 --> 0:01:16.080 Yeah, what up though, Supremo Supremo Role, Supremo Son Supremo Rod. 0:01:16.600 --> 0:01:20.319 My name is Fante. Yeah, let's keep it dirty. Yeah. 0:01:20.600 --> 0:01:32.960 My skin complexion yeah zero dark dirty Supremo Rodd. Name 0:01:33.040 --> 0:01:33.600 is Sugar. 0:01:34.000 --> 0:01:35.479 Yeah, I'm pretty big. 0:01:36.080 --> 0:01:36.319 Yeah. 0:01:36.800 --> 0:01:37.639 What's my point? 0:01:38.120 --> 0:01:39.360 Yeah, Point. 0:01:43.080 --> 0:01:48.000 Supremo Role, Sumo Son Supremo Role. 0:01:48.480 --> 0:01:49.440 I'm on pay bill. 0:01:50.000 --> 0:01:50.200 Yeah. 0:01:50.560 --> 0:01:53.200 She y'all don't sue me. Yeah, I wanted to thank 0:01:53.280 --> 0:01:55.880 Catherine Bigelow for Gary Busey. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:02:03.880 Supremo Roll Supreme Supreme Roll. 0:02:04.640 --> 0:02:08.680 I'm like em yeah, and I'm the ship. Yeah, sitting 0:02:08.720 --> 0:02:11.200 next to an Oscar winner. Yeah, but I ain't gona trip. 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:12.680 Roll Come. 0:02:14.040 --> 0:02:20.079 Supremo, Roll Call Supremo, Supremo. 0:02:19.680 --> 0:02:23.400 Roll Bill don't care, Yeah about how you feel? 0:02:23.960 --> 0:02:31.600 Yeah, but Ron Silver Yeah it was Ellen Blue Steel Supremo, 0:02:31.800 --> 0:02:36.320 Roll Call Supreme, So Supreme, roll Come. 0:02:37.280 --> 0:02:39.480 I'm Catherine yeah and peace. 0:02:39.800 --> 0:02:51.360 Yeah yeah, roll Come, roll Call Supreme Supreme. 0:02:51.720 --> 0:02:52.680 Roll call was. 0:02:54.919 --> 0:03:05.440 Upre Rolland wow, that's a ball start, she said. 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.360 One word dropped it. You do what you want when 0:03:09.400 --> 0:03:14.639 you pop. You're also mad at you? He was? 0:03:15.840 --> 0:03:16.160 He was? 0:03:16.360 --> 0:03:18.760 He was, Yeah, he was. He was a motherfucking yeah. 0:03:19.160 --> 0:03:20.200 Wow you did Blue Steel? 0:03:20.560 --> 0:03:21.320 I just wow. 0:03:21.680 --> 0:03:27.560 Yes. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:30.840 Course Love Supreme, only on Pandora. Uh. This is your 0:03:30.880 --> 0:03:33.400 host Quest Love, and we have Team Supreme. We have 0:03:34.840 --> 0:03:36.840 hy He Gordy as. 0:03:37.320 --> 0:03:45.680 Organizer, and we have Bill DeBarge boss already light skin joke, 0:03:46.320 --> 0:03:52.680 it could be we We we have Fante Robinson over here, yes. 0:03:54.960 --> 0:04:00.560 And uh over here. We have uh, Bill Ruffin would 0:04:00.560 --> 0:04:04.960 be not exactly and the smoothest the moment or the 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:06.600 morrow we have Steve Gay. 0:04:08.520 --> 0:04:11.040 On on it's so good. 0:04:11.240 --> 0:04:12.760 You heard it here on back? 0:04:13.440 --> 0:04:13.600 Are you? 0:04:13.920 --> 0:04:16.680 Are you okay, Steve? Yeah, okay, yeah. 0:04:16.760 --> 0:04:19.440 If anybody hears me, grown, it's not that you're boring. 0:04:19.920 --> 0:04:22.760 No pain. I was gonna say, you're not trying out 0:04:22.800 --> 0:04:25.040 a new sexy voice. You're just no. No, this is it. 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:32.000 This is all I got right, that's exactly. Thank you. 0:04:32.080 --> 0:04:34.240 I'm going to turn the micuick. But I'm not talking 0:04:34.279 --> 0:04:35.039 because I'm growing. 0:04:36.680 --> 0:04:41.080 Okay, So just just again, you're not having a sexy moment. 0:04:41.160 --> 0:04:43.520 No, I'm Steve Gay but I'm not being sexy. 0:04:43.720 --> 0:04:44.440 I'm just being. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:47.800 Can anytime? Are you talking? I just put this on? 0:04:51.120 --> 0:04:53.800 Can you make thing I've ever sounded with the. 0:04:56.680 --> 0:04:59.919 List and gentlemen, our guest today is a groupping storyteller, 0:05:00.600 --> 0:05:02.919 very intense and stark as a writer, and a director 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:09.960 is such a ashen I'm sorry director with such action 0:05:10.160 --> 0:05:14.600 classics as a point Break, Strangers Days K nineteen and 0:05:14.760 --> 0:05:17.760 Blue Steel. By the way, I too have never looked 0:05:17.760 --> 0:05:21.920 at Ron Silver the same after that film came out. However, 0:05:22.040 --> 0:05:25.760 in twenty ten, she made history as the first and 0:05:25.960 --> 0:05:31.240 only female to win the Best Director Oscar Challenge Give 0:05:31.279 --> 0:05:36.400 It Up Strong Challenge for her IRAQ Award drama classic 0:05:36.560 --> 0:05:39.400 The hurt Locker and her follow up film, the equally 0:05:39.480 --> 0:05:44.599 gripping twenty twelve zeror Dark thirty also garnered universal claim, 0:05:44.960 --> 0:05:48.680 earning her New York Film's Critics Award for Best Director 0:05:48.720 --> 0:05:52.800 as well, and in twenty seventeen, she follows that up 0:05:53.720 --> 0:05:57.560 with her next film entitled Detroit. But you know, for 0:05:57.640 --> 0:06:00.400 all my people of Detroit, I secretly call the D 0:06:01.240 --> 0:06:04.720 the D in my head. And it's a film that's 0:06:04.720 --> 0:06:09.680 centered around the Algiers Motel incident, one of the many 0:06:09.720 --> 0:06:14.120 stories that I have occurred during the nineteen sixty seven 0:06:14.520 --> 0:06:20.320 riots that really, you know, transform that city into what 0:06:20.480 --> 0:06:24.359 it is today, kind of putting the long history conflict 0:06:24.440 --> 0:06:27.880 relationship between the police and the inner city residents or 0:06:27.920 --> 0:06:31.320 on full display for the world to see. And if 0:06:31.400 --> 0:06:36.400 you think that she lets up on her intensity, think again, 0:06:37.120 --> 0:06:41.520 because it's intense as hell. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome 0:06:41.600 --> 0:06:44.800 to Quest Love Supreme the one and only Catherine Bigelow. 0:06:47.880 --> 0:06:53.200 Thank you, Wow, this is an honor to have you 0:06:53.279 --> 0:06:57.680 on the show to be here. Normally, you know, we've 0:06:57.760 --> 0:07:02.760 been in our comfort zone with with Grammy winners and 0:07:02.960 --> 0:07:09.680 music icons. But because of the city of Detroit and 0:07:09.800 --> 0:07:14.280 its relationship to music and the sixty seven riots, which 0:07:15.120 --> 0:07:18.200 actually affected the outcome of a lot of the music 0:07:18.280 --> 0:07:22.240 that came out to the city, most notably Motown migrating 0:07:22.360 --> 0:07:24.600 to the West as a result of the end of 0:07:24.640 --> 0:07:29.800 the Detroit And for those that don't know the central 0:07:29.880 --> 0:07:33.920 role that the group the Dramatics plays in this film, 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:37.240 I thought it was only right to have you on 0:07:37.320 --> 0:07:41.240 the show to speak of it. How are you? How 0:07:41.320 --> 0:07:41.920 are you today? 0:07:43.000 --> 0:07:45.720 I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm happy to be here, happy 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:46.480 to talk about it. 0:07:48.280 --> 0:07:56.960 So I have to ask, because of okay, your film, magarey, 0:07:57.040 --> 0:08:00.520 I'm so used to saying your discography or your cannon, 0:08:00.880 --> 0:08:08.800 Yes you can, you know you're probably. I mean, when 0:08:08.920 --> 0:08:11.320 when all is said and done and we look at 0:08:11.360 --> 0:08:17.600 your your canon, Uh, the intense level of your storytelling 0:08:17.720 --> 0:08:24.800 can't be denied. What what is your your goal? As 0:08:24.840 --> 0:08:26.520 far as when you make a film, like what's your 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:29.760 mission statement? At least like when artists make a record, 0:08:29.840 --> 0:08:31.840 there's the mission statement that's used like one or two 0:08:32.480 --> 0:08:34.960 you know, phrase it this is my dadada statement or whatever. 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:39.880 But for you, is it just to rip the ribbons 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:44.840 and the bows off of the conventions of what Hollywood 0:08:44.880 --> 0:08:47.120 expects and for you to just come. 0:08:47.040 --> 0:08:49.120 At it raw off? 0:08:49.280 --> 0:08:49.480 Yeah. 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:50.840 I think. 0:08:52.720 --> 0:08:55.040 I think up until hurt Locker, it was you know, 0:08:55.200 --> 0:08:58.120 kind of learning the craft. And then with hert Locker, 0:08:58.200 --> 0:09:01.160 I sort of discovered that you could kind of look 0:09:01.200 --> 0:09:03.679 at film like journalism. In other words, it could it 0:09:03.760 --> 0:09:07.120 could be about something you don't already know. And I 0:09:07.240 --> 0:09:10.000 thought that the Iraq wards of really contested engagement that 0:09:10.320 --> 0:09:12.559 was very underreported at the time, and I didn't know 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.240 what an IED or an EOD tech was, and so 0:09:16.000 --> 0:09:21.000 it gave the audience an opportunity to kind of perhaps 0:09:21.320 --> 0:09:23.920 maybe a bit immersive, but to experience what it might 0:09:23.960 --> 0:09:25.520 be like over there, so you could begin to have 0:09:26.480 --> 0:09:28.880 make your own decision about it, you know, should and 0:09:29.000 --> 0:09:30.800 so that was interesting to me. So that was what 0:09:32.000 --> 0:09:35.360 I suppose informed zero Doarc thirty as well, like you know, 0:09:35.480 --> 0:09:38.559 how do how does something that take ten years to 0:09:38.720 --> 0:09:40.760 find this individual who was the most hunted man in 0:09:40.800 --> 0:09:46.400 the world, and so trying to unpack these these I 0:09:46.480 --> 0:09:49.920 don't know these stories and treat them almost like journalism. 0:09:50.120 --> 0:09:53.280 In other words, it's it's kind of both at the 0:09:53.320 --> 0:09:53.679 same time. 0:09:53.800 --> 0:09:56.760 Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I particularly 0:09:56.880 --> 0:09:59.800 those two movies. I always thought that they took a 0:10:00.000 --> 0:10:02.360 every journalistic approaching, that they're very kind of just the 0:10:02.440 --> 0:10:04.599 facts kind of way, versus, if you like, with The 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:07.599 hurt Locker in particular, if you look at someone like 0:10:07.640 --> 0:10:10.439 a Spike Lee, who his movies are very overt, like 0:10:11.120 --> 0:10:13.719 you know how he feels about everything in it. But 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:16.240 with The hurt Locker in particular, I love the movie, 0:10:16.280 --> 0:10:19.920 but you don't really know your personal feelings on the war, 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:22.319 Like what were your personal feelings about it? 0:10:22.320 --> 0:10:24.600 And how did you keep that bias out of the film? 0:10:25.600 --> 0:10:28.559 It TWA's hard, but I sort of looked at it 0:10:28.679 --> 0:10:32.800 like kind of threading a needle of being pro soldier 0:10:32.840 --> 0:10:34.880 and anti war. You know, if you could somehow do 0:10:35.000 --> 0:10:40.400 that and also giving an audience the opportunity to have 0:10:40.559 --> 0:10:42.880 enough information to make their own decision. I don't think 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:45.480 it's up to me to judge, you know, it's I 0:10:46.000 --> 0:10:49.480 feel like my role or responsibility is to present and 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:53.520 then you know, enable you to come away with enough information. 0:10:53.640 --> 0:10:55.640 But it is very hard It's a good question because 0:10:56.040 --> 0:10:58.560 you know you're constantly wanting to but wait a minute, 0:10:58.559 --> 0:11:00.599 I'm really passionate about you know, I don't want to 0:11:00.640 --> 0:11:03.040 go I don't want to be in this engagement. But anyway, 0:11:03.559 --> 0:11:05.800 so it's it's tricky how. 0:11:05.720 --> 0:11:08.240 Do you tackle I mean, especially with the hurt Locker 0:11:10.800 --> 0:11:13.719 one of one of the factor factors that are on 0:11:13.800 --> 0:11:21.559 full display sort of the the male toxic relationships that 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:25.800 are that are in that movie, you know, even when 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.199 they're not engaged in battle, just how they deal with 0:11:28.320 --> 0:11:33.280 each other. I mean, how do you like Well, I 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.480 guess Fonte kind of asked, like, how do you even 0:11:36.600 --> 0:11:40.800 present that without presenting your bias? Whereas a producer or 0:11:41.360 --> 0:11:44.880 a studio head could say, well, you know, what are 0:11:44.880 --> 0:11:46.800 you trying to say with your agenda that you know this, 0:11:48.280 --> 0:11:53.199 that this particular demographic is is someonet messed up in 0:11:53.240 --> 0:11:54.800 the head or that sort of thing, Like how do 0:11:54.920 --> 0:11:55.959 I mean, how do you even. 0:11:58.000 --> 0:12:01.880 Well, it's a good question. I mean, the writer was 0:12:01.960 --> 0:12:05.280 embedded with the EUD texts Mark boll And, so he 0:12:05.440 --> 0:12:10.160 came back with a tremendous amount of information and really 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.000 brought it to life on the page. And so that 0:12:13.800 --> 0:12:17.240 helped inform me a lot, and then I went to Kuwait, 0:12:17.320 --> 0:12:20.760 I went to Camp Era Jam. I spent time in 0:12:21.120 --> 0:12:23.520 in you know, in stitute to the extent I can. 0:12:23.600 --> 0:12:26.040 I mean, I couldn't go. I couldn't go the five 0:12:26.120 --> 0:12:28.199 kilometers across the border to Iraq, but I could be. 0:12:28.600 --> 0:12:30.520 I was in the staging areas, so I got a 0:12:30.640 --> 0:12:34.240 sense of what I don't I don't suppose what the 0:12:34.679 --> 0:12:39.760 psychology is of these individuals, and so spent a lot 0:12:39.800 --> 0:12:42.040 of time with the EUD texts and just you know, 0:12:42.160 --> 0:12:46.240 you're you're in a really heightened scenario. I mean, you're 0:12:46.440 --> 0:12:49.240 trying to clear a three hundred meter perimeter around some 0:12:49.880 --> 0:12:52.280 suspicious wires sticking up out of the ground. And as 0:12:52.320 --> 0:12:55.160 you get closer in that three hundred meters walk, you 0:12:55.360 --> 0:12:57.600 have to you know, at the beginning, you're thinking of, well, 0:12:57.640 --> 0:12:59.840 it's you know, it's one hundred and two degrees outside. 0:13:00.000 --> 0:13:02.800 I'm you know, my IQ is dropping because about how 0:13:02.880 --> 0:13:05.120 it is inside the soup. But as you're closer and closer, 0:13:05.559 --> 0:13:08.080 they always talked about there's a twenty five meter perimeter, 0:13:08.160 --> 0:13:10.599 and that's when you start thinking about your family, and 0:13:11.440 --> 0:13:14.400 it's just you know, do I have everything in order is, 0:13:14.760 --> 0:13:17.079 you know, and so it's a very It was interesting 0:13:17.320 --> 0:13:22.160 kind of understanding that degree of commitment and dedication, I guess, 0:13:22.440 --> 0:13:27.679 and yet trying to also understand the methodology of the insurgents. 0:13:27.720 --> 0:13:30.400 I mean, this, this is a different This isn't like 0:13:30.480 --> 0:13:34.040 a ground war like you know where where people wear 0:13:34.080 --> 0:13:35.959 different helmets and it's like, oh, they're the bad guy. 0:13:36.080 --> 0:13:38.160 I mean, you don't, you know, it's a very you 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:40.040 don't know who's who. And also you have to be 0:13:40.200 --> 0:13:44.960 very quick in terms of disarming this ied before your 0:13:45.000 --> 0:13:48.240 coordinates are called in by a sniper in the areas, 0:13:48.280 --> 0:13:51.840 you've got about maybe three minutes maximum to figure out 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:55.880 which one you know, how to unpack it. But but 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:57.680 so it's trying to I don't know if I'm answering 0:13:57.679 --> 0:14:00.400 your question very well, but it was trying to unders stand. 0:14:00.520 --> 0:14:04.959 I guess. What I try to do is is create 0:14:05.080 --> 0:14:09.199 as experiential a situation environment as I can, so I 0:14:09.320 --> 0:14:13.000 keep the camera very alive, keep the cast doing their job, 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.599 not thinking about camera. I did the same thing with 0:14:16.360 --> 0:14:20.040 in the Algiers motel, where you're just you're doing what 0:14:20.440 --> 0:14:22.880 you're you know, you're either against the wall or one 0:14:22.920 --> 0:14:25.480 of the officers, So it's keeping you on task. 0:14:25.760 --> 0:14:27.880 Okay, Well that leads me to my next question. Okay, 0:14:28.000 --> 0:14:34.640 because because I always feel as though whatever camera number 0:14:34.680 --> 0:14:38.440 one is also a character in the film, how do 0:14:38.560 --> 0:14:43.720 you because a lot of the you do heart panning, 0:14:43.800 --> 0:14:45.640 You do a lot of heart panting instead of cuts, 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:48.400 Whereas I really feel like, okay, I'm a character in 0:14:48.440 --> 0:14:51.840 this and you know I'm inside of this world. How 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:56.640 do you even coordinate the choreography? I mean, I'm thinking 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:02.200 of like the founder almost where oh yeah, exactly, Like 0:15:03.280 --> 0:15:08.040 as far as the technical preparation is concerned, how do 0:15:08.160 --> 0:15:13.600 you do it so that you you maintain the the 0:15:14.760 --> 0:15:17.920 the key elements of the scene without him being in 0:15:17.960 --> 0:15:20.160 the way or the actor is being distracted like you know, 0:15:20.760 --> 0:15:24.120 Like well, I mean, first. 0:15:23.920 --> 0:15:26.480 Of all, you've got this story, this narrative beginning, and 0:15:26.560 --> 0:15:29.960 that's somewhat linear. That's all that's linear. Everything else is 0:15:30.040 --> 0:15:32.520 in motion. The act that cast is in motion, the 0:15:32.600 --> 0:15:36.480 cameras are in motion. I light the entire area so 0:15:36.680 --> 0:15:40.440 everything is live. And then I try to I try 0:15:40.520 --> 0:15:44.040 to work in in situ as long as possible. In 0:15:44.160 --> 0:15:46.640 other words, like you could do eight pages if you 0:15:46.720 --> 0:15:49.520 want it to. In other words, it's very I try 0:15:49.560 --> 0:15:53.440 to keep it as continuous as possible, but but I 0:15:53.560 --> 0:15:56.320 keep I keep it very alive. And then eventually, usually 0:15:56.440 --> 0:15:59.320 just when the first couple of days it cast just 0:15:59.680 --> 0:16:03.720 the disappears for them and they're just they're kind of 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.160 on point. They're doing what they are who they are. 0:16:07.640 --> 0:16:10.080 Like in terms of Jeremy Renner and Hurt Locker, he 0:16:10.320 --> 0:16:12.840 was just walking down that three hundred meter perimeter, it 0:16:12.840 --> 0:16:15.280 didn't matter, and the cameras were constantly switching up take 0:16:15.320 --> 0:16:19.840 after takeout, four cameras working simultaneously, and you just I mean, 0:16:19.920 --> 0:16:21.560 I think in a way it's kind of freeing. He 0:16:21.600 --> 0:16:24.240 had never worked like that before, and and I think 0:16:24.240 --> 0:16:26.960 it's kind of freeing. There's no blocking, there's no blocking 0:16:27.000 --> 0:16:30.320 for camera, there's no there's no marks, there's no rehearsals. 0:16:29.960 --> 0:16:34.160 No practice, no nothing, no. So are you are you 0:16:34.280 --> 0:16:39.360 coordinating like a defensive coordinator? Because even then, like when 0:16:40.120 --> 0:16:43.400 there are certain scenes where they'll there'll be a certain 0:16:43.480 --> 0:16:47.360 shot and then suddenly on cue the camera will pan in, 0:16:48.280 --> 0:16:52.040 like and I'm always wondering, like, are you in someone's headphones? 0:16:52.120 --> 0:16:54.480 Like Okay, I wish I did, Like. 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:57.920 So they just do it on instinct and just you 0:16:58.040 --> 0:17:01.000 trust them enough to know when to blur up a 0:17:01.080 --> 0:17:02.560 shot and then focused and. 0:17:03.000 --> 0:17:07.200 I need that technology. But no, Barry Ackroyd is he's 0:17:07.200 --> 0:17:09.720 a genius. He's a cinematographer and both hurt Locker and 0:17:09.840 --> 0:17:14.600 Zerrator and her Locker and Detroit right, and and he's 0:17:14.640 --> 0:17:17.720 so uncanny, so intuitive, I mean he and so those 0:17:17.760 --> 0:17:20.520 are you know, he'll snap zoom, like he just knows 0:17:20.520 --> 0:17:22.800 what you want. He just knows. Yeah, we talk it 0:17:22.880 --> 0:17:26.440 through and then and then he feels it. In fact, 0:17:26.480 --> 0:17:28.359 he doesn't want to see a rehearsal. He wants to 0:17:28.480 --> 0:17:31.920 find it in that first take and and he talks 0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.479 about that. I mean, that's that's very important for him. 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:35.760 So you're like a jazz music. 0:17:35.920 --> 0:17:37.600 I was just gonna say, it's like a jazz jazz 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.240 because it can't be rehearsed or mechanical. Then it then 0:17:41.280 --> 0:17:43.720 it loses, it loses something. 0:17:44.680 --> 0:17:50.399 Are you are you ever over the editor's shoulder or 0:17:50.520 --> 0:17:52.359 do you just turn your tapes and you just trust 0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:55.040 that they know what you want? Like, at what point 0:17:55.080 --> 0:17:57.880 do you let your baby go and trust that they 0:17:57.920 --> 0:18:01.280 will cut what was in your head at the time 0:18:01.320 --> 0:18:04.720 when you're thinking of the shot and a certain scene. 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:10.000 Well, I also have I have the just in my opinion, 0:18:10.040 --> 0:18:13.360 the world's greatest editor, Billy Goldenberg, who did Sero Dark 0:18:13.440 --> 0:18:18.119 in Detroit. And what's this style of shooting? There's no 0:18:18.400 --> 0:18:21.040 masters medium's close ups. It doesn't work like that. You're 0:18:21.119 --> 0:18:24.199 just everything is constantly in motion, like the actor may 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:26.600 walk around the humby and then suddenly he is in 0:18:26.680 --> 0:18:29.919 a close up. For in other words, it's it's very fluid. 0:18:30.040 --> 0:18:37.160 So Billy takes this, which in a way is very chaotic, 0:18:37.320 --> 0:18:40.920 can really seem very chaotic, but he creates the linearity 0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.280 and I trust him completely and I am there. But 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:46.560 so you are there, I'm there. 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:50.520 I've heard well, I mean not that I know that 0:18:50.600 --> 0:18:54.000 much about filmmaking, but I do know that like in 0:18:54.080 --> 0:18:57.720 the case of Martin and Filma, he says that the 0:18:57.800 --> 0:19:01.680 second he's done a film scores, just give Schoolmacher his 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:05.119 films and it's like, it's on you. You know what 0:19:05.200 --> 0:19:08.520 I like, and I'll come back. Like there's always an 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.399 issue of micromanaging of that sort of thing, like not 0:19:11.560 --> 0:19:13.280 letting go. And I didn't know if it was an 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:18.840 unwritten rule that once a director finishes shooting, then you 0:19:19.040 --> 0:19:20.800 just give it to the editor and trust that they 0:19:20.880 --> 0:19:21.440 know what they're doing. 0:19:21.680 --> 0:19:26.159 Well, I trust completely and I love him to, you know, 0:19:26.359 --> 0:19:29.760 find a certain autonomy. But I think he would agree. 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:32.080 Hopefully I'm speaking for him, but I think it's a 0:19:32.119 --> 0:19:35.240 real collaboration with the crew, with the cast, with everybody. 0:19:35.359 --> 0:19:39.240 It's a real it's a real collaborative medium, and I 0:19:39.320 --> 0:19:41.919 think it's at its best when it's collaborative. 0:19:42.280 --> 0:19:42.840 Can I ask you? 0:19:43.080 --> 0:19:45.600 It seems like and I might be assuming, but it 0:19:45.680 --> 0:19:48.560 feels like hurt Locker was the beginning of one hundred 0:19:48.600 --> 0:19:51.880 percent passion project for you, like a toe chapter because 0:19:51.960 --> 0:19:55.560 hurt Locker, of course an Nzel Dark thirty Detroit. I 0:19:55.640 --> 0:19:57.679 wanted to know, is that the case or what does 0:19:57.720 --> 0:20:01.200 the different? What happened in between to number one to 0:20:01.240 --> 0:20:03.000 get to the point where you could do this? Are 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.399 these are one hundred percent passion projects? And yeah, what 0:20:06.560 --> 0:20:08.720 was the transition to that point? Because of course you 0:20:08.800 --> 0:20:11.160 did so many movies and projects before that, but these 0:20:11.320 --> 0:20:14.920 last three seem like, yeah, and this is your heart. 0:20:15.200 --> 0:20:16.440 And then you did My Zone. 0:20:19.840 --> 0:20:23.200 Well, I feel like the ore the films before them, 0:20:23.920 --> 0:20:26.960 and and of course you know you're kind of I 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.040 don't know you can't have favorites, you know. But but 0:20:30.160 --> 0:20:32.560 I feel like they prepared me for those. And I 0:20:32.600 --> 0:20:36.320 couldn't have done hurt Locker or Zero Dark or Detroit 0:20:36.600 --> 0:20:40.560 if I hadn't done those. And one thing that was 0:20:40.600 --> 0:20:44.800 a real departure was working with emerging talent or you know, 0:20:45.400 --> 0:20:49.439 mainly unknown talent. And and I kind of made that, uh. 0:20:50.080 --> 0:20:53.760 In other words, if you wanted to finance or produce 0:20:53.960 --> 0:20:56.280 the hurt Locker, you had to work or that was 0:20:56.320 --> 0:21:00.800 a prerogative creative control. And let me tell you that 0:21:01.040 --> 0:21:04.040 winnowed out a lot of options out there, you know. 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:08.280 And and and then there was this one gentleman who 0:21:09.000 --> 0:21:12.600 took the leap and and for very little relatively for 0:21:12.680 --> 0:21:16.080 a movie like that, small amount of money, And I 0:21:16.240 --> 0:21:18.920 was able to cast exactly who I want, cut it exactly, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:20.920 cut it the way I shoot it, the way I 0:21:20.920 --> 0:21:23.199 wanted to cut it, the way I want it done, and. 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:26.840 And so and this is the first time that you 0:21:27.000 --> 0:21:28.720 were able to do that in your whole career. 0:21:28.840 --> 0:21:33.000 Yeah, how hard is it to find a producer that's 0:21:33.080 --> 0:21:37.280 not for lessons and verse? Is a pain in the 0:21:37.400 --> 0:21:41.639 ass because you know, I, at least in my experiences 0:21:41.680 --> 0:21:46.920 of witnessing. Usually the good cop is the director and 0:21:47.240 --> 0:21:51.000 the bad cop is the producer, you know, and they 0:21:51.119 --> 0:21:54.399 have to stay on the side. Let you know, the 0:21:54.440 --> 0:21:56.919 budget that's running over and this this sort of thing. 0:21:57.520 --> 0:22:02.040 I mean, how how easy is it to find or 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.040 how hard is it to find one that gives you 0:22:05.160 --> 0:22:08.240 complete autonomy Because there were years before I think came 0:22:08.320 --> 0:22:14.200 nineteen came out, uh six years before seven seven, not 0:22:14.359 --> 0:22:16.159 knowing what the budget for the hurt Locker was. But 0:22:16.240 --> 0:22:21.840 I can imagine that however, you pitched it obviously for 0:22:21.960 --> 0:22:25.360 that end, for zero dark thirty, that it was pricey 0:22:26.560 --> 0:22:29.560 and and you know, of course we're not mentioned the 0:22:29.680 --> 0:22:33.320 elephant in the room about you know, are women given 0:22:33.359 --> 0:22:36.680 the same amount of trust behind the wheel as a 0:22:36.760 --> 0:22:39.440 mail director. We all know that answer is no. So 0:22:40.440 --> 0:22:42.960 how did you how did you break how did you 0:22:43.040 --> 0:22:48.720 break through to the other side to even this is 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:49.640 a lottery. 0:22:49.320 --> 0:22:57.720 Ticket, it's a lottery ticket. Well, you know, just you 0:22:57.800 --> 0:23:02.000 have to be very tenacious and well, the first budget 0:23:02.040 --> 0:23:05.359 for hurt Lucker was thirty million, and I ended up 0:23:06.240 --> 0:23:07.200 making it for ten. 0:23:08.080 --> 0:23:16.080 So that happened. So don't. 0:23:19.600 --> 0:23:23.200 Budget from thirty to well, that's I don't act and 0:23:23.320 --> 0:23:26.560 didn't lose any set pieces either, so so that was 0:23:27.440 --> 0:23:31.680 a little tricky but or a little challenging. But the 0:23:31.880 --> 0:23:36.600 key there was and what I realized was that the 0:23:36.680 --> 0:23:40.720 budget and your creative control are in direct proportion to 0:23:40.760 --> 0:23:41.240 one another. 0:23:41.640 --> 0:23:43.680 So that was for that. 0:23:43.880 --> 0:23:46.440 So the lower the budget, more creative control you have 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:49.280 to you were going to sacrifice and compromise creative control 0:23:49.359 --> 0:23:51.840 if you want more money. So that's just it's a 0:23:52.000 --> 0:23:54.800 very simple calculus. I kind of wrapped my head around 0:23:54.840 --> 0:23:59.800 that and went forward with it, and and obviously with 0:24:00.080 --> 0:24:03.520 hurt Locker that was that turned out well. And Zero 0:24:03.640 --> 0:24:05.639 Dark was a little bit more money, but not I mean, 0:24:05.840 --> 0:24:09.360 it wasn't outrage it was but I would be considered 0:24:09.400 --> 0:24:14.560 a kind of fairly robust budget, but nothing in terms 0:24:14.680 --> 0:24:17.720 of I don't know, one of the more normal big 0:24:17.800 --> 0:24:18.440 movies today. 0:24:18.800 --> 0:24:23.359 Well okay, because I know that Zero Dark is also 0:24:24.720 --> 0:24:28.239 intento on the drama and the dialogue that's just as 0:24:28.359 --> 0:24:32.600 rich as an action scene or that sort of thing. Now, 0:24:32.640 --> 0:24:35.800 I'm trying to imagine if you were given complete autonomy 0:24:35.920 --> 0:24:38.119 to do, you know, say, if you were given a 0:24:38.240 --> 0:24:41.359 seventy million dollar budget, or you know, some films of 0:24:41.440 --> 0:24:44.200 this nature get one hundred and fifty million dollar budget, 0:24:44.320 --> 0:24:48.879 Like what more could you done? Like is there a 0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.680 sacrifice scene that we didn't know about? Then? Like, okay, 0:24:51.800 --> 0:24:54.639 well we only got ten millions, so we'll just use 0:24:54.680 --> 0:24:55.439 this firecracker. 0:24:58.520 --> 0:24:59.760 I'll just blow up this town. 0:25:00.359 --> 0:25:00.439 Now. 0:25:02.359 --> 0:25:05.960 That's another thing I think, you know, I do when 0:25:06.000 --> 0:25:09.520 I can. I work in elephant conservation or some kind 0:25:09.520 --> 0:25:12.360 of philanthropy. And I think, you know, the bigger the budgets, 0:25:12.400 --> 0:25:14.800 I think, wow, I should be using this money for that, 0:25:15.080 --> 0:25:17.720 you know, saving these park rangers in Garamba and the 0:25:17.800 --> 0:25:20.280 d r C or something like that. But so, but 0:25:20.760 --> 0:25:24.159 but finding a producer that supports you and trusts you, 0:25:24.359 --> 0:25:27.119 I mean, that's it's a process. It's a I mean, 0:25:27.160 --> 0:25:30.159 I also produce. But in other words, I'm a producer 0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:33.520 and director, so I see cost I'm a student and creative. 0:25:33.560 --> 0:25:37.240 But but you know, I know, you know, I know, 0:25:37.520 --> 0:25:40.840 I know who wins in my in my own personal right. 0:25:41.840 --> 0:25:45.720 But but uh yeah, you just you know, but I 0:25:45.800 --> 0:25:49.840 think working with as much trust, integrity and respect as 0:25:49.880 --> 0:25:54.600 you possibly can, and then I mean with everybody, crew, casts, producers, 0:25:54.640 --> 0:25:59.840 et cetera. And then you know, it's usually a you. 0:26:00.440 --> 0:26:02.960 I mean, that's sort of what I learned prior to 0:26:03.119 --> 0:26:05.200 the hurt Locker and then of course tried to execute 0:26:05.200 --> 0:26:06.720 it from that point on. 0:26:07.000 --> 0:26:11.000 So you're you're proven, You're you're you're you're reaffirming what 0:26:11.040 --> 0:26:16.840 I've always thought about musicians, which is whenever they have 0:26:17.080 --> 0:26:22.120 limited resources and limited budgets, they turn out their most 0:26:22.200 --> 0:26:26.160 creative work. And whenever they're just given the entire world, 0:26:26.359 --> 0:26:30.080 that's usually the uh, that's the jumping the shark moment 0:26:30.280 --> 0:26:33.120 for a lot of our our musicians. 0:26:33.320 --> 0:26:35.320 Well, there's a great quote by Entre Gate. I said, 0:26:35.400 --> 0:26:37.520 artist born of restraint and dies of freedom. 0:26:39.160 --> 0:26:43.400 Yeah, that's very true, is it? And that's quest love suprevium, 0:26:44.080 --> 0:26:44.840 Thank you very much. 0:26:52.680 --> 0:27:01.119 I have a question Steve, and then I really want 0:27:01.160 --> 0:27:02.640 to hear about Detroit after. 0:27:02.840 --> 0:27:04.840 Well, we're going to get to Detroit. I kind of 0:27:04.960 --> 0:27:05.920 wanted I get. 0:27:06.000 --> 0:27:09.520 My question is because you mentioned the journalistic nature of 0:27:09.760 --> 0:27:12.480 making these movies, So do you have any kind of 0:27:12.520 --> 0:27:15.159 background in journalism now? 0:27:15.280 --> 0:27:18.439 But Mark, who wrote all three of them, comes from 0:27:18.560 --> 0:27:23.600 investigative journalism, and so that allowed me to kind of 0:27:23.800 --> 0:27:27.440 open up open up that idea of being a you know, 0:27:27.600 --> 0:27:30.600 putting the viewer in an active relationship with the screen 0:27:30.640 --> 0:27:34.280 as opposed to passive. You know that can't consequently again, 0:27:34.320 --> 0:27:38.320 the camera's very active, but in other words, sort of 0:27:38.400 --> 0:27:40.160 inviting the viewer to be a fly in the wall 0:27:40.520 --> 0:27:41.600 in what you're experiencing. 0:27:45.359 --> 0:27:49.800 I'll change you, Lad, you could be Stubbs, Steve Stubbs. 0:27:50.440 --> 0:27:53.200 So I was watching the CNN thing the nineties and 0:27:53.280 --> 0:27:58.720 I saw your name as a director on what was 0:27:58.800 --> 0:28:00.120 it a long time ago. 0:28:01.440 --> 0:28:04.200 Point? It was a show. 0:28:04.280 --> 0:28:04.520 It was. 0:28:07.720 --> 0:28:15.399 Stet Yeah, Baltimore. Yeah, yeah, that. 0:28:19.640 --> 0:28:22.000 Was somewhat journalistic type thing too. 0:28:22.320 --> 0:28:24.639 Well, well, I started that was sort of where I 0:28:24.840 --> 0:28:27.520 began to get confident enough to move, you know, to 0:28:27.640 --> 0:28:30.760 be I don't know, create a very I suppose sort 0:28:30.760 --> 0:28:35.440 of active and fluid cinematic environment. And then I don't know, 0:28:35.520 --> 0:28:37.720 you just kind of get your chops. I mean, it's 0:28:37.720 --> 0:28:41.120 got to be like what all of you do? Wait, 0:28:42.560 --> 0:28:43.240 what was your first? 0:28:43.360 --> 0:28:45.840 What was your first gig in the film industry? Because Catherine, 0:28:45.880 --> 0:28:49.760 you have like actors, producer, writer, director, all these things. 0:28:50.280 --> 0:28:50.920 What was your first? 0:28:51.160 --> 0:28:56.920 Yeah, I'm gonna add some more, you should do whatever. Well, 0:28:56.960 --> 0:29:01.480 I started out as a painter, and I was an 0:29:01.640 --> 0:29:03.800 artist and or thought of myself as an artist and 0:29:05.520 --> 0:29:09.680 moved to New York. I was given this I don't 0:29:09.720 --> 0:29:12.680 know this, I guess internship with a Whitney Independent study program. 0:29:12.760 --> 0:29:14.560 They gave you a studio. I was living in a 0:29:15.200 --> 0:29:18.200 bank vault and on the corner of Down and Read 0:29:18.280 --> 0:29:24.640 and Chambers and many many years ago, no no very 0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:27.680 pre gentrified off track betting building. And I was downstairs 0:29:27.760 --> 0:29:32.040 in this bank fault and Susan Sontag was one of 0:29:32.120 --> 0:29:34.920 my advisors. She'd come down and I'd put the work 0:29:34.960 --> 0:29:37.560 up on the wall of these stainless and the door. 0:29:37.720 --> 0:29:38.840 I mean, I had nowhere to stay. I had a 0:29:38.840 --> 0:29:40.640 sleeping bag in the bank fault and i'd sleep in 0:29:40.720 --> 0:29:44.160 there and people be gunshots above, and I was like, okay, 0:29:44.160 --> 0:29:46.200 I'm safe down here. As long as the door doesn't shut. 0:29:48.400 --> 0:29:53.040 The door shots, nobody's going to find me. But but 0:29:53.280 --> 0:29:56.680 so she'd I would do these paintings. And then I 0:29:56.840 --> 0:30:00.400 realized that art and I love it. Believe me, I still, 0:30:00.880 --> 0:30:05.640 you know, I kind of no, no, no, no, no, no, 0:30:05.960 --> 0:30:07.120 I mean I still look. 0:30:07.040 --> 0:30:07.440 At it and. 0:30:08.960 --> 0:30:12.280 No, no, it can't be a hobby. I wish it could. 0:30:12.360 --> 0:30:17.160 But anyway, so no, it's not relaxing. But but I 0:30:17.280 --> 0:30:21.280 realized there's something you know, kind of I don't know 0:30:21.360 --> 0:30:22.960 how to put it, but maybe kind of rarefied. You 0:30:23.000 --> 0:30:24.920 look at this white on white canvas, which is this 0:30:25.080 --> 0:30:28.160 Russian guy, Casmir Malevich, who I love. But but the 0:30:28.240 --> 0:30:33.040 point is it, it's, you know, requires or asks of 0:30:33.120 --> 0:30:35.520 you a little bit of information to kind of appreciate 0:30:35.600 --> 0:30:39.120 it and think this is extraordinary and breakthrough Ormonnai's to 0:30:39.160 --> 0:30:41.920 Haystacks or whatever. And so I then I started moving 0:30:41.960 --> 0:30:45.000 into film because I thought it crosses all class cultural lines, 0:30:45.640 --> 0:30:48.760 like everybody can ex everybody can go to the movies, 0:30:49.160 --> 0:30:51.160 and so how do you make how do you work 0:30:51.200 --> 0:30:55.360 in a populist medium with an emphasis on content? And 0:30:55.480 --> 0:30:57.680 so that's where it started. I did this piece Setup, 0:30:57.800 --> 0:30:59.680 and then I ended up doing a graduate degree at 0:30:59.720 --> 0:31:02.800 column being I was getting too long of an answer, 0:31:04.320 --> 0:31:08.160 and I did this movie called Setup Movie. It was 0:31:08.200 --> 0:31:12.680 a short, it was twenty minutes, and it was very violent. 0:31:13.560 --> 0:31:20.480 I know there's a thematically, a real breakthrough, and but 0:31:20.840 --> 0:31:24.280 what I was interesting to me was why we are 0:31:24.680 --> 0:31:30.680 attracted to extreme situations? And and Susan Sontag wrote that 0:31:30.720 --> 0:31:34.960 book on photography, and she talked about identifying with the 0:31:35.120 --> 0:31:38.880 other or the id you know and your years, so 0:31:39.360 --> 0:31:43.600 anyway I have. It's basically a piece that tries to 0:31:43.800 --> 0:31:47.560 unpack our attraction to cinematic violence. And it's only twenty 0:31:47.600 --> 0:31:52.000 minutes long, sort of non narrative, and then that kind 0:31:52.040 --> 0:31:54.600 of propelled me into the motorcycle movie I did with 0:31:54.680 --> 0:31:57.320 Willem Dafoe called The Loveless. 0:31:57.240 --> 0:32:00.160 William dug he must be special to work with. Oh, 0:32:00.280 --> 0:32:01.760 I mean, oh, he's fabulous. 0:32:03.800 --> 0:32:05.320 In fact, he was doing you know, he used to 0:32:05.360 --> 0:32:07.640 be with the Booster Group, and that was back in 0:32:07.680 --> 0:32:09.480 the day when you can just go to a performance 0:32:09.520 --> 0:32:11.080 and then you go up afterward and you say, hey, 0:32:11.080 --> 0:32:12.080 do you want to be in a movie? I mean, 0:32:12.120 --> 0:32:14.520 I had just you know, five pennies to make this 0:32:14.600 --> 0:32:16.560 film and he's like sure. I said, can you ride 0:32:16.600 --> 0:32:22.680 a motorcycle? He said, yes, Well I learned. I learned. 0:32:24.880 --> 0:32:29.320 You know, it's good to kind of like research research question, 0:32:29.840 --> 0:32:33.800 especially when we ended up No, he didn't fall, He 0:32:33.920 --> 0:32:37.680 just ended up going through a hedge and up along 0:32:37.760 --> 0:32:40.440 and into in the front door. We had these big 0:32:40.480 --> 0:32:44.280 electric glides. Back in the day, there was ghost motorcycles 0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:45.600 out on Long Island. I don't know if any of 0:32:45.640 --> 0:32:48.080 you and if you were old enough. No, and they 0:32:48.120 --> 0:32:50.880 had they had real they had vintage motorcycles. And this 0:32:51.040 --> 0:32:52.840 was a film that took place in nineteen fifty nine, 0:32:52.880 --> 0:32:55.560 and so I wanted all the motorcycles to be real, 0:32:56.360 --> 0:33:01.000 and so they're heavy, and I mean I didn't I 0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:06.560 can't drive one. But so that was how the switch happened, 0:33:07.120 --> 0:33:10.360 and then I sort of then suddenly I was making film. 0:33:15.320 --> 0:33:19.840 There's what is your attraction to? I mean, I don't 0:33:20.160 --> 0:33:22.480 you know, I don't want to use violence, as you 0:33:22.600 --> 0:33:26.600 know as the four letter word, but there's definitely that's 0:33:26.640 --> 0:33:29.880 an element that's almost a common denominator in each film. 0:33:30.040 --> 0:33:34.479 Like I've became aware of you through Blue Steel, as 0:33:34.560 --> 0:33:35.880 we mentioned at the top of the show. 0:33:37.960 --> 0:33:38.560 But what is. 0:33:40.840 --> 0:33:43.120 What is it that you want to tell the world 0:33:43.240 --> 0:33:45.520 or show the world through all of your films that 0:33:45.640 --> 0:33:50.440 you you you direct or you write, like what is 0:33:50.520 --> 0:33:53.840 your Because you wrote Blue Steel? Correct, you wrote in directly, 0:33:56.200 --> 0:33:59.680 So what what is that? What is why is that 0:33:59.840 --> 0:34:03.800 you or way to grip our collars or to get 0:34:03.840 --> 0:34:07.080 our attention? Do you use it in a very unusual 0:34:07.200 --> 0:34:09.600 You don't. It's not gratuitious as in like, hey, it's 0:34:09.640 --> 0:34:14.560 gratu but it's it's almost psychological where you you go 0:34:14.760 --> 0:34:20.160 deep into all these characters and you show this dark 0:34:20.239 --> 0:34:23.239 place in their soul, which makes me wonder about you, 0:34:24.840 --> 0:34:26.080 what's the dark place in your soul? 0:34:30.480 --> 0:34:34.840 Well, we could turn this into a therapy, right, I know. 0:34:36.600 --> 0:34:38.600 And I co wrote that with Eric red So and 0:34:38.719 --> 0:34:44.120 we co wrote Near Dark together too, But I think 0:34:44.200 --> 0:34:49.359 of well, I don't. I suppose it's it goes kind 0:34:49.400 --> 0:34:51.040 of go back, goes back to the art days, where 0:34:51.080 --> 0:34:53.880 the purpose of art is to agitate for change. And 0:34:54.200 --> 0:34:58.239 so I think a film is very kinetic. It's a 0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:03.200 very kinetic medium, and and I sort of enjoy the 0:35:03.640 --> 0:35:10.400 mechanics of that kind of visceral identification with a story 0:35:10.520 --> 0:35:12.759 on the screen. But it has to have content, It 0:35:12.800 --> 0:35:15.400 has to have some purpose. There has to be some 0:35:17.600 --> 0:35:21.680 you know, the same meaning as to self aggrandizing, I 0:35:21.719 --> 0:35:23.239 don't mean it that way, but to have you know, 0:35:23.360 --> 0:35:26.319 it has to have some substance. And I think what's 0:35:26.360 --> 0:35:28.960 so great about film is it allows you and music 0:35:29.280 --> 0:35:31.720 to be a part of something so much bigger than yourself. 0:35:32.480 --> 0:35:35.800 And you know, maybe ever so slightly, you can perhaps 0:35:35.880 --> 0:35:36.520 make a difference. 0:35:37.600 --> 0:35:40.799 I want to ask you about when you cast your 0:35:40.880 --> 0:35:44.759 films and the training that you put your actors through. 0:35:46.000 --> 0:35:48.279 Obviously for the hurt Locker there was you know, it 0:35:48.400 --> 0:35:50.400 had to be some kind of military training or what 0:35:50.640 --> 0:35:53.759 was the regimen for that? And also for Detroit, because 0:35:53.840 --> 0:35:56.680 the guys are playing a singing group, what did you 0:35:56.800 --> 0:36:00.279 have them do to so that it looks real camera? 0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:02.120 Well? 0:36:02.200 --> 0:36:02.440 Thank you? 0:36:04.200 --> 0:36:07.560 Any story camp Ord? Uh? 0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:11.200 Yeah, there was Motown camp. No we didn't, oh love 0:36:11.600 --> 0:36:16.160 no no no no. Well, in terms of hurt Locker, yeah, 0:36:16.160 --> 0:36:18.560 they had. They went through a lot of military training, 0:36:18.640 --> 0:36:23.800 I mean, and same with Sarah Dark. I had the 0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:26.160 benefit of in the case of hurt Locker, there was 0:36:26.239 --> 0:36:30.640 some Delta Delta Force individuals that were my tech advisors 0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.640 and se s and then with zero Dark Navy Steel 0:36:36.160 --> 0:36:39.560 Tech advisors and taught them how to you know, how 0:36:39.600 --> 0:36:42.759 to move and how you know. The most important thing 0:36:42.800 --> 0:36:45.480 I took away from that was don't run. Wait, don't 0:36:45.520 --> 0:36:48.560 run to your death. You know how it's very methodical 0:36:48.640 --> 0:36:51.160 how these people move. It's really interesting. Like you'll be 0:36:51.440 --> 0:36:54.520 coming around a corner and you don't race around it. 0:36:54.600 --> 0:36:58.399 You move very slowly and incessantly. It's like they talk 0:36:58.440 --> 0:37:00.439 about it, like the trainers would talk about it like water, 0:37:00.600 --> 0:37:04.000 you know, the way water moves. It's cadence, doesn't change. 0:37:04.440 --> 0:37:08.840 It's just very consistent. It has nothing to do with motown. 0:37:08.960 --> 0:37:16.760 But well, I'm I'm somebody, I think who's musically challenged. 0:37:16.800 --> 0:37:19.400 In fact, I was. I think, I don't know how 0:37:19.400 --> 0:37:22.000 old I was. I did a piano recital at like 0:37:22.280 --> 0:37:23.759 one and a half. I don't know, I was very young, 0:37:24.200 --> 0:37:27.560 and the teacher hit my hand with the realer I 0:37:27.640 --> 0:37:31.680 was doing something wrong, and so I told my parents, 0:37:31.719 --> 0:37:34.040 I'll never never do it, never doing that again. So 0:37:34.520 --> 0:37:39.440 I started painting. But anyway, so I was extremely lucky 0:37:39.480 --> 0:37:44.920 because I'm I'm not conversant in that world and finding 0:37:45.000 --> 0:37:47.040 these actors, and I did a lot of improv. I 0:37:47.080 --> 0:37:49.880 did never work from the script. I work basically in improv. 0:37:50.160 --> 0:37:52.520 Created a situation like okay, you're up against the while 0:37:52.600 --> 0:37:57.000 this guy's going to come in, and I needed to 0:37:57.080 --> 0:38:00.920 see how they would react in a situation, and then 0:38:01.800 --> 0:38:07.440 how they would work together, as you know, musically, and 0:38:09.000 --> 0:38:13.120 I think, I you know, I think they just blended. 0:38:13.320 --> 0:38:15.400 I don't know, there was just a natural blend and 0:38:15.520 --> 0:38:19.200 they kind of and then I don't know, they got 0:38:19.280 --> 0:38:23.600 together a lot during the shoot, and and prior in 0:38:23.680 --> 0:38:28.280 the casting process, they would get together and really created 0:38:28.320 --> 0:38:33.320 a sense of history, and that carried over into the 0:38:34.520 --> 0:38:37.080 you know, onto the scene when you do it, do you. 0:38:37.200 --> 0:38:40.840 Have someone in mind, like when you looking at the story, 0:38:40.920 --> 0:38:42.680 do you have someone in mind saying, Hey, I think 0:38:42.800 --> 0:38:44.560 this actor or this actress would be good for this 0:38:44.719 --> 0:38:47.959 role or is that something that totally you let the casting. 0:38:47.960 --> 0:38:50.960 No, Well, I had an amazing casting director, Vicky Thomas, 0:38:51.080 --> 0:38:58.399 but I really wanted actors who, in a way didn't 0:38:58.440 --> 0:39:03.200 have any provenance because that tele telegraphs to an audience, 0:39:03.239 --> 0:39:06.080 even if it's consciously or subconsciously, Oh that person, you know, 0:39:06.200 --> 0:39:10.400 you can't die, he's too famous, right, and so immediately 0:39:10.480 --> 0:39:12.560 the game is over. You know, there's no tension. So 0:39:13.440 --> 0:39:16.440 for that reason and many and and also just I 0:39:16.640 --> 0:39:20.399 love the idea of kind of these discoveries. And these 0:39:20.880 --> 0:39:23.400 young African American men were just I mean, they were 0:39:23.560 --> 0:39:28.640 so giving and so I don't know, they're so talented. 0:39:28.719 --> 0:39:30.759 I mean, it was an embarrassment of riches. It was very, 0:39:30.920 --> 0:39:33.040 very very hard to cast because for any one part 0:39:33.120 --> 0:39:35.200 there were quite a few options. 0:39:35.280 --> 0:39:37.960 Well, you did a great job, because I didn't even 0:39:38.320 --> 0:39:43.480 recognize uh John Krasinski, Oh yeah, five minutes. I was like, 0:39:43.600 --> 0:39:46.800 oh him, and I was waiting for the office. 0:39:48.400 --> 0:39:50.560 And then the young black actors that you picked are 0:39:50.719 --> 0:39:52.839 like right now, the up and coming you. I mean, 0:39:53.320 --> 0:39:55.919 just off a name you got like you got Ralph 0:39:56.000 --> 0:39:56.840 treads Van, you know. 0:39:57.480 --> 0:40:00.640 Like in the characters. 0:40:00.680 --> 0:40:03.080 But I mean that they play but and it's dope 0:40:03.080 --> 0:40:04.600 to I was. I was thinking, I said, you know, 0:40:04.680 --> 0:40:07.000 they're used to being in these dope ensemble class cast 0:40:07.040 --> 0:40:08.840 even John Boyega, I don't know if I say his 0:40:08.920 --> 0:40:12.520 name Rye perfect Star Wars ensemble cast. So it kind 0:40:12.560 --> 0:40:14.480 of worked dope for you because they are used to 0:40:15.080 --> 0:40:17.200 making it work for one grid mission, right. 0:40:17.360 --> 0:40:20.400 Yeah, I mean they work. Yeah, they're well first at 0:40:20.480 --> 0:40:22.960 working as you know, as a group and as a 0:40:23.080 --> 0:40:26.120 kind of an organic body that you know. I mean, 0:40:26.440 --> 0:40:29.120 I was just so lucky in Altree Smith and Hayden 0:40:29.239 --> 0:40:32.040 and Malcolm and and little Butler. 0:40:32.120 --> 0:40:33.640 I'm glad I never knew his name, but I've been 0:40:33.640 --> 0:40:35.200 watching him since he was a child actor. 0:40:35.280 --> 0:40:36.200 He's amazing. 0:40:36.960 --> 0:40:40.640 He's scary. He is even if I see him now 0:40:41.680 --> 0:40:43.919 like he's in he's he's on the Goldbergs, right. 0:40:44.880 --> 0:40:47.400 Is he not on the I don't know if he's 0:40:47.440 --> 0:40:49.160 on their now. He was in the Revenant, he was 0:40:49.440 --> 0:40:50.840 in the Chronicles of Narnia. 0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:56.680 Yeah right, okay, I know that, but yeah he's Jesus Christ. 0:40:57.000 --> 0:40:58.160 Can get it's an eyebrow thing. 0:41:01.320 --> 0:41:02.920 Even if you mentioned it now, I'm like, all right, 0:41:03.040 --> 0:41:06.160 change this ubject. I don't know how the feel when 0:41:06.160 --> 0:41:10.480 I see him come on my show and play. I 0:41:10.600 --> 0:41:17.600 want to know what is uh your personal creative process, uh, 0:41:18.600 --> 0:41:21.879 from going project to project now? I mean the time 0:41:21.960 --> 0:41:27.960 distance between zero Dark thirty and the hurt Locker was 0:41:28.040 --> 0:41:33.440 two years almost now. I would imagine usually for anyone 0:41:33.520 --> 0:41:41.960 else in any other medium, uh, when someone reaches that level, 0:41:42.239 --> 0:41:45.759 that summer, that pinnacle of a career and you, of 0:41:45.840 --> 0:41:48.600 course making history as the first female director to get 0:41:50.560 --> 0:41:57.799 an Oscar, not usually for anyone else that would be like, okay, well, 0:41:57.960 --> 0:42:00.960 a period of decompression and you take five years off 0:42:01.000 --> 0:42:04.239 to think you're your next move. Like let's take limit 0:42:04.440 --> 0:42:08.440 Manuel Miranda for example, Like, I'll be shocked if he 0:42:08.560 --> 0:42:12.040 comes up with a follow up to Hamilton in the 0:42:12.280 --> 0:42:15.920 next five years. Like, I'll be shocked. I'm doing Jefferson 0:42:16.239 --> 0:42:21.799 right right, But yeah, you know you immediately I mean, 0:42:22.200 --> 0:42:24.960 for me, that's that's almost lightning fast of how you 0:42:25.239 --> 0:42:27.839 just went on to the next project like it was nothing. 0:42:27.920 --> 0:42:31.080 You didn't let it freeze you up or anything. But 0:42:31.200 --> 0:42:34.000 I want to know, you know, do you have a 0:42:36.239 --> 0:42:41.120 kind of a decompression resting period that lets you back 0:42:41.239 --> 0:42:44.120 at zero so that you can go to the next product? 0:42:44.320 --> 0:42:47.600 And then what's your research into Like as far as 0:42:48.280 --> 0:42:51.399 you deciding Okay, this is what I want to do next, 0:42:51.719 --> 0:42:53.960 and then you know, making sure that you and your 0:42:54.000 --> 0:42:57.280 screenwriter are on point with each other, and then mapping 0:42:57.360 --> 0:43:00.360 out the direction and all the things that go with 0:43:00.560 --> 0:43:03.680 creating a film, like what is your creative process and 0:43:03.920 --> 0:43:07.920 in relationship, especially with Detroit, the research you had to 0:43:08.040 --> 0:43:10.600 do and the books you had to read and all 0:43:10.640 --> 0:43:11.080 those things. 0:43:11.440 --> 0:43:17.160 Yeah, the research on Detroit was massive. What happened was 0:43:17.920 --> 0:43:20.440 Mark came to me with this story. And this was 0:43:21.160 --> 0:43:26.719 early twenty fifteen and right about the time of the 0:43:28.000 --> 0:43:34.640 Michael Brown acquittal, and I it was, you know, kind 0:43:34.680 --> 0:43:37.799 of obviously a politically emotionally charged time. And he told 0:43:37.800 --> 0:43:40.239 me this story and I said, you know, this is 0:43:40.280 --> 0:43:43.000 a story that needs to get out there. You know, 0:43:43.120 --> 0:43:48.640 it's very important in my opinion, and and you know, 0:43:49.520 --> 0:43:52.680 maybe in some small way it can contribute to a 0:43:52.800 --> 0:43:58.839 conversation on a bigger scale. And then I started doing 0:43:59.239 --> 0:44:03.080 homework on it and and and in fact, I sent 0:44:03.200 --> 0:44:06.759 down I sat down with Congressman Conyers, who's in the movie, 0:44:07.440 --> 0:44:11.000 but in Detroit, and he kind of looked at me 0:44:11.040 --> 0:44:12.600 and said, okay, what are you What are you doing? 0:44:12.760 --> 0:44:14.759 You know what kind of movie you're doing in Detroit? 0:44:14.840 --> 0:44:16.880 Said well, I'm doing a story about the Algiers Motel. 0:44:17.760 --> 0:44:22.200 And he said, that's an execution. And and so I 0:44:22.280 --> 0:44:27.240 realized that there's you know, there's a lot of obviously 0:44:27.280 --> 0:44:30.040 a lot of history, even though it's fifty years ago. 0:44:30.200 --> 0:44:34.600 And then the you know what happened with Michael Brown 0:44:35.280 --> 0:44:37.920 and on and on and this time and this time 0:44:38.160 --> 0:44:41.239 it felt very timely, and it felt like this might be, 0:44:43.400 --> 0:44:48.080 you know, I don't know, worth be incredibly moving to 0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:52.799 to dig into. And at the more research I did, 0:44:52.880 --> 0:44:55.759 the more homework we did, and trying to make it 0:44:56.640 --> 0:44:58.280 as real and authentic as possible. 0:44:58.360 --> 0:44:58.799 And and. 0:45:01.400 --> 0:45:05.400 It was very emotional piece. It was very emotionally charged 0:45:05.520 --> 0:45:06.440 shooting it as well. 0:45:06.719 --> 0:45:09.640 Do you know, did you have any reservations about doing this? 0:45:09.680 --> 0:45:12.439 Because I was reading the article that doctor Dyson wrote 0:45:12.480 --> 0:45:15.160 on you, and I remember the part where he one 0:45:15.200 --> 0:45:16.960 of the people in Detroit, because you guys are walking 0:45:16.960 --> 0:45:19.360 around Detroit, and he says, like, what is this is? 0:45:19.440 --> 0:45:19.480 This? 0:45:19.680 --> 0:45:21.640 Is this white woman gonna know about us and this 0:45:21.760 --> 0:45:23.600 story that we have? Like, did you personally have to 0:45:24.200 --> 0:45:25.960 have a moment and say, can I do this? 0:45:26.080 --> 0:45:26.719 Should I do this? 0:45:27.520 --> 0:45:32.239 Absolutely? I mean I thought, and I think I still think. 0:45:32.320 --> 0:45:34.600 You know, am I the perfect person to make this movie? 0:45:34.680 --> 0:45:38.040 Absolutely not. On the other hand, you know, I have 0:45:38.239 --> 0:45:40.879 this opportunity. I can get this. You know, I can't 0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:45.680 get this story out there, and and you know, take 0:45:45.760 --> 0:45:49.439 advantage of that in the hope that again it maybe 0:45:49.600 --> 0:45:52.799 leads to a dialogue or more stories like this coming out. 0:45:53.640 --> 0:45:54.000 And so. 0:45:56.200 --> 0:45:58.560 That was that was the impetus behind. 0:45:58.239 --> 0:46:00.080 It, when you say you're not the perfect person and 0:46:00.120 --> 0:46:02.800 if not you, then who, like who would if you 0:46:02.840 --> 0:46:03.960 were producing Detroit? 0:46:04.239 --> 0:46:08.839 Who would you get to direct it? Yeah? 0:46:08.840 --> 0:46:15.200 I mean she'd be amazing exactly so, but you know, 0:46:15.280 --> 0:46:17.239 it kind of washed up on my beach and so 0:46:17.640 --> 0:46:21.120 sort of like, all right, do I I don't know? 0:46:21.280 --> 0:46:24.560 You know, that was that took a There was a 0:46:24.640 --> 0:46:27.880 moment there when I was trying to kind of grapple 0:46:27.960 --> 0:46:28.160 with that. 0:46:28.600 --> 0:46:34.120 And it's weird because I even when I saw the 0:46:34.160 --> 0:46:37.760 screening of it, I did not know that the story 0:46:39.280 --> 0:46:43.000 even happened. And you know, I'd like to think that 0:46:43.640 --> 0:46:47.080 anything musically related, like I'm on top of I mean, 0:46:47.120 --> 0:46:49.359 I knew of Riots being in Detroit, and I knew 0:46:51.000 --> 0:46:55.840 I've heard several interviews of why Motown had left. You know, 0:46:55.920 --> 0:46:58.160 I simply thought it was because, Okay, well, Dinah Ross 0:46:58.160 --> 0:46:59.960 wanted to meet movies and so let's go out there. 0:47:00.560 --> 0:47:04.759 I had no idea that you know, Detroit was and 0:47:06.480 --> 0:47:11.359 that intense of a disarray, and so the first thing 0:47:11.880 --> 0:47:15.440 I thought was like, well, why wasn't this I think 0:47:15.480 --> 0:47:18.440 Bill was the first person I called about this, and 0:47:18.680 --> 0:47:20.320 he looked at up and it's like, yo, yeah, it 0:47:20.480 --> 0:47:23.880 was real, And you know, he looked at he researched 0:47:23.920 --> 0:47:28.320 it online, like I couldn't believe that, because the thing is, 0:47:28.480 --> 0:47:33.640 it's not because you didn't do a biopic about the dramatics. 0:47:34.400 --> 0:47:37.239 More or less, the dramatics just happened to be at 0:47:37.280 --> 0:47:40.880 the wrong place at the wrong time, and you captured it. 0:47:41.280 --> 0:47:45.319 And even then I was like, wow, Like the four 0:47:45.400 --> 0:47:48.799 or five times that I've seen the Dramatics. I mean, 0:47:48.840 --> 0:47:50.920 that would be like if I met Rodney King and 0:47:51.040 --> 0:48:02.359 he never told me about April, you know what I mean? Right? 0:48:02.520 --> 0:48:04.440 But anyway, Yeah, and. 0:48:07.120 --> 0:48:08.840 I kept thinking, like on the way home, I was like, 0:48:08.880 --> 0:48:12.360 wait a minute, man, I've been at least in the 0:48:12.560 --> 0:48:14.520 four or five times I've been in the presence of 0:48:14.560 --> 0:48:17.000 the Dramatics in my career, like, it's at least been 0:48:17.000 --> 0:48:21.320 accumulated three to four hours. I'm like, man, they didn't 0:48:21.320 --> 0:48:22.200 mentioned this once, like. 0:48:22.320 --> 0:48:24.480 I maybe it wasn't the worst thing that happened to them. 0:48:25.200 --> 0:48:28.920 Well, here's the funny thing. Yeah, here's the funny thing. 0:48:29.160 --> 0:48:33.400 Because I've talked about violent situations that they've been in 0:48:35.560 --> 0:48:42.040 in the Snoop's second source cover when his solo album 0:48:42.080 --> 0:48:45.520 comes out in nineteen ninety three, and Dreamhampton's sort of 0:48:45.560 --> 0:48:50.800 trailing them during the making of Doggie Style, there was 0:48:51.920 --> 0:48:55.480 maybe an exchange of gunfire between the van that the 0:48:55.560 --> 0:49:01.000 Dramatics were in and maybe the family of that Remember 0:49:01.440 --> 0:49:09.759 Snoop had an incident. Yeah, Philip, I don't want to 0:49:09.840 --> 0:49:14.080 just reduce him to Yeah, how did you remember that? 0:49:17.239 --> 0:49:17.439 Well? 0:49:17.840 --> 0:49:20.200 Yeah, I mean the article came out twenty five years ago. 0:49:20.239 --> 0:49:23.800 But I remember the Dramatics being in that situation. And 0:49:23.920 --> 0:49:28.040 then when Slim Village told me a story uh sort 0:49:28.080 --> 0:49:31.879 of similar that, it was like a minor fender bender, 0:49:32.000 --> 0:49:33.880 Like they were with some members of the Dramatics and 0:49:34.160 --> 0:49:36.400 DJ Dees told me like, you know, like they were 0:49:36.400 --> 0:49:39.520 about to get into a violent situation. I was thinking, like, man, 0:49:39.600 --> 0:49:42.600 the Dramatics are the most unlucky group on earth. 0:49:42.920 --> 0:49:46.440 And yeah, they're just like the Drama. 0:49:50.760 --> 0:50:03.000 There. Yeah, but and talking to them about those situations, yeah, man, 0:50:03.080 --> 0:50:06.440 well it was intense that day. But like they never said. 0:50:07.760 --> 0:50:09.840 To me, they just. 0:50:11.440 --> 0:50:13.719 I just That's the first thing. I was like, why 0:50:13.880 --> 0:50:16.600 did they not tell me about nineteen sixty seven? Like 0:50:16.640 --> 0:50:19.040 why did I not know this even in the film. 0:50:19.320 --> 0:50:21.800 I kept asking Half the time. I was like I 0:50:21.880 --> 0:50:25.879 am dbing, like wait a minute, is this Dramatics Dramatics that? Yeah, yeah, 0:50:26.480 --> 0:50:28.080 the Dramatics. I know what she sees what you And 0:50:28.120 --> 0:50:32.520 then when they started singing it, then whoever is running 0:50:32.640 --> 0:50:36.120 the I don't know if you told them not to 0:50:36.239 --> 0:50:38.080 tell me or whatever, that you just wanted me to 0:50:38.120 --> 0:50:40.279 see it raw and that sort of thing. So I 0:50:40.320 --> 0:50:42.479 went back to him, I'm like, yo, is this story real? 0:50:42.800 --> 0:50:46.279 Or and he said just watch it, you know, So 0:50:46.560 --> 0:50:49.920 half the time I was just like trying to follow effects, and. 0:50:52.320 --> 0:50:55.799 Yeah, it's just a long story. They're probably so sick 0:50:55.840 --> 0:50:58.200 of talent. It's like, probably takes two hours to tell 0:50:58.239 --> 0:50:58.840 the story. 0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:02.480 Yeah, of a movie rather, you know. And I don't 0:51:02.560 --> 0:51:07.719 want to get into spoilers, so I'm trying to figure 0:51:07.760 --> 0:51:14.200 out a way to talk about the film without getting 0:51:14.239 --> 0:51:18.160 into specifics so as to not ruin it for the listener. 0:51:18.360 --> 0:51:22.479 But I mean, I will say that in this film 0:51:22.560 --> 0:51:25.640 is like what two hours and twenty yeah, yeah, two 0:51:25.680 --> 0:51:32.080 hours and twenty minutes. I mean you spend a great 0:51:32.200 --> 0:51:37.080 deal in the center of the film, thirty five to 0:51:37.120 --> 0:51:37.720 forty minutes. 0:51:38.680 --> 0:51:40.600 Oh, probably a little bit more maybe, yeah. 0:51:40.560 --> 0:51:44.680 Yeah, fifty minutes, almost an hour on this one. It's 0:51:44.800 --> 0:51:48.120 it's almost like it turns into a play because you're 0:51:48.239 --> 0:51:55.360 literally in this room during the torture scene whatever you 0:51:55.400 --> 0:51:58.920 want to the interrogation, torture, death game scene for an 0:51:59.040 --> 0:52:03.279 hour with just one camera and. 0:52:06.680 --> 0:52:08.800 And how many people in that room. 0:52:10.120 --> 0:52:13.319 In the hallway, Yeah, in the hallway there were about. 0:52:13.120 --> 0:52:17.680 Nine and and nine and four cops dependent on the 0:52:17.800 --> 0:52:18.520 army guys, and. 0:52:18.880 --> 0:52:23.719 Exactly like three three Detroit police and one National Guard. 0:52:25.000 --> 0:52:28.839 It's us. It's this almost the movie stops and then 0:52:29.960 --> 0:52:33.400 it goes into meta mood inside of itself and then 0:52:33.520 --> 0:52:36.440 starts all over again with this torture scene. 0:52:36.640 --> 0:52:44.200 And uh, sounds like another oscar for Catherine. 0:52:46.200 --> 0:52:50.400 I just and it's weird because even when you and 0:52:50.520 --> 0:52:52.880 I were talking, because I mean, it's no secret, like 0:52:53.080 --> 0:52:57.080 you know, the roots worked on the song at the end. 0:52:58.239 --> 0:53:02.000 I mean, there is two ways to go with the 0:53:02.200 --> 0:53:06.640 direction of that song because with films that intense, and 0:53:06.719 --> 0:53:12.200 when it's time for the credits, you need you need 0:53:13.040 --> 0:53:15.480 a moment to breathe the process what you just saw. 0:53:16.680 --> 0:53:18.600 That's what Catherine was saying about the song earlier, right 0:53:18.600 --> 0:53:19.319 you were breaking down. 0:53:19.440 --> 0:53:22.760 Is not just a song, yeah, I mean it also 0:53:23.040 --> 0:53:25.759 there's you know, it's so emotional that song. I think 0:53:25.800 --> 0:53:30.160 it's phenomenal, and it also shifts time periods, you know, 0:53:30.360 --> 0:53:33.920 takes you from the sixties to now back to the sixties, 0:53:34.480 --> 0:53:36.879 and I think it's a good release for the kind 0:53:36.920 --> 0:53:38.879 of anger that that one might feel. 0:53:39.280 --> 0:53:42.400 We wrote the song it ain't fair, and I wanted 0:53:42.760 --> 0:53:51.120 to give the listener release at the end, but I 0:53:51.239 --> 0:53:56.320 also remembered that I was mad as fuck at just 0:53:58.400 --> 0:54:01.799 angry as shit, and I want it to convey all 0:54:01.880 --> 0:54:05.759 those things in that song, the. 0:54:05.840 --> 0:54:10.080 Movie or just period, you know what I I felt. 0:54:11.040 --> 0:54:14.640 I had a long conversation, uh with the and seeing 0:54:14.680 --> 0:54:18.520 the film twice. Uh, I kind of had a post 0:54:18.640 --> 0:54:22.200 viewing conversation, uh with the people I was with and 0:54:23.719 --> 0:54:25.920 kind of here on both sides because you know, it's 0:54:25.960 --> 0:54:30.120 with white and black people and it's weird. The white 0:54:30.160 --> 0:54:33.120 people that saw the film with me were like, Okay, 0:54:33.960 --> 0:54:37.239 you know, I have to admit that it took this 0:54:37.440 --> 0:54:42.959 film for me to really truly understand black lives matter. 0:54:43.160 --> 0:54:44.200 Jesus, and this. 0:54:44.280 --> 0:54:48.320 Person is a liberal Jesus but the worst. Sorry, but 0:54:48.440 --> 0:54:52.560 that's it's this person's a liberal. But it's it's sort 0:54:52.560 --> 0:54:54.920 of like, well, I hear what you're saying, but it's 0:54:54.960 --> 0:54:59.480 almost as if this film really allows you. Yeah, this 0:54:59.560 --> 0:55:02.840 film really allows you to put yourself in that person's shoes, 0:55:02.840 --> 0:55:04.560 because this is one thing to just watch the news 0:55:04.640 --> 0:55:06.520 thing and there's always the thing in the back of 0:55:06.600 --> 0:55:13.520 your mind like okay, uh the brother, the brother in Minnesota, Uh, 0:55:16.320 --> 0:55:19.719 where you know I still you know liberals that might say, okay, okay, 0:55:19.880 --> 0:55:25.719 what really happened, Okay, did you you right exactly on 0:55:25.800 --> 0:55:27.960 the facts that comings means that you're giving the benefit 0:55:27.960 --> 0:55:30.880 of the doubt, that that we never fucking get right. 0:55:31.280 --> 0:55:35.880 And it was like, as we were watching the film, 0:55:36.680 --> 0:55:39.560 I kept watching the energy of the room and the 0:55:39.600 --> 0:55:41.719 white side was sort of like, what's going on here? 0:55:43.080 --> 0:55:44.480 This is what we've been trying to tell you. 0:55:46.880 --> 0:55:48.320 And awakening. 0:55:50.719 --> 0:55:53.400 I mean, it's it's it's real, and it's you know. 0:55:53.520 --> 0:55:55.839 I kind of explained to them that yeah, like none 0:55:55.880 --> 0:55:58.320 of us, none of us. And the thing that it 0:55:58.400 --> 0:56:00.560 hit home to me was that again and with with 0:56:00.760 --> 0:56:04.400 the dramatics and what they went through. Not trying to 0:56:04.440 --> 0:56:08.359 spoil it, but I was even like, wow, like how 0:56:08.480 --> 0:56:12.520 do you even go on continue as a group or 0:56:12.600 --> 0:56:14.640 function with your life after this? 0:56:15.200 --> 0:56:16.439 What was the album they made after? 0:56:18.920 --> 0:56:18.960 What? 0:56:20.960 --> 0:56:22.640 Yeah? But it's like how do you go on? 0:56:22.880 --> 0:56:23.840 And so it was. 0:56:26.320 --> 0:56:28.719 You know, I mean, tears were shed and there were 0:56:28.760 --> 0:56:31.640 all sides of it, because even even on the black 0:56:31.719 --> 0:56:39.040 side of things, they were just like yo, man, that's no, 0:56:41.000 --> 0:56:45.360 they're they're there. I Mean I've had arguments of intense 0:56:45.560 --> 0:56:49.719 levels with you know, well you know why they stand 0:56:49.800 --> 0:56:51.520 up for themselves and be like yo, fuck y'all. And 0:56:51.800 --> 0:56:55.719 you know, and I'm just like, dude, when you're I 0:56:55.800 --> 0:56:58.040 always call this the price is right syndrome. The prices 0:56:58.160 --> 0:57:00.720 right syndrome is that when you're why ching the prices 0:57:00.800 --> 0:57:03.239 right in the comfort of your home, you know, you 0:57:03.360 --> 0:57:08.920 know that, yeah, you know that Turtle wat Turtle is 0:57:08.960 --> 0:57:11.879 eight ninety nine, you know. But when you're when you're 0:57:11.920 --> 0:57:16.400 on the prices right, it's like a thousand. It's like 0:57:16.520 --> 0:57:20.040 you always know the answers when it's not when you're 0:57:20.120 --> 0:57:26.200 not there. And I've been, okay, I've been in situations 0:57:26.320 --> 0:57:31.400 and this is the thing, because I'm sure that you 0:57:31.640 --> 0:57:35.080 you've definitely been in a situation frontal Bill Bill come 0:57:35.120 --> 0:57:38.040 from Indiana's probably definitely lie. He has been in a 0:57:38.040 --> 0:57:41.640 situation where I mean, even today, I mean I'll stay 0:57:41.720 --> 0:57:44.200 with all casual iness that you know, maybe my my 0:57:44.600 --> 0:57:48.640 average of getting stopped, you know, six times of years, 0:57:48.800 --> 0:57:52.120 like I expect every January, okay, and I think about 0:57:52.120 --> 0:57:55.720 it a lot, like, wow, I'm gonna have six six 0:57:55.840 --> 0:58:00.600 runnings with and still the point where I gotta prepared, 0:58:01.120 --> 0:58:04.720 like I keep extra lego hearts in the car what 0:58:05.440 --> 0:58:08.120 you give them out to cor No three times like, 0:58:08.440 --> 0:58:10.160 you know, because if I want to go out and 0:58:10.240 --> 0:58:13.800 be comfortable and not have to take selfies, I wear 0:58:13.840 --> 0:58:16.600 a hood, I break my hair, I wear dark glasses. 0:58:17.240 --> 0:58:19.880 It buys me ten seconds of Yeah, I know you're 0:58:19.880 --> 0:58:22.240 looking like a mirror. You're not ever you, But yes 0:58:22.320 --> 0:58:25.360 it works. Sometimes I can sneak in movies and I'm cool. 0:58:25.880 --> 0:58:30.480 But when that shit happens, put on jazz music. 0:58:30.960 --> 0:58:35.600 Yeah, no, for real, do not turn your head to 0:58:35.680 --> 0:58:36.080 look back. 0:58:36.200 --> 0:58:38.400 You're you're programmed. I mean you can even be like, 0:58:38.440 --> 0:58:40.000 all right, fuck it, I'm down for the cars and 0:58:40.120 --> 0:58:43.640 Queen Latifa, your way out that car. But then it'll 0:58:43.680 --> 0:58:46.360 just be like in Supreme, I set it off, was 0:58:46.760 --> 0:58:51.160 set off? I got it? Or it's like, you know, 0:58:51.400 --> 0:58:54.439 the second they see, wait a minute, I gotta stop 0:58:54.480 --> 0:58:58.600 by ic ic e, I gotta stop by ice ice. Yeah, 0:58:59.360 --> 0:59:04.120 this summer in California, what is that immigration? 0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:05.360 Why they stop? 0:59:06.640 --> 0:59:12.360 I was? I was, we were, we were driving hudriving. 0:59:14.360 --> 0:59:18.200 I was being driven from my gig in uh San Diego, 0:59:18.880 --> 0:59:21.600 which has a lot of activity of fence jump and whatnot, 0:59:21.800 --> 0:59:25.120 Like they have the little signs of families like running 0:59:25.160 --> 0:59:26.800 the border, like be whare the you know, like you 0:59:26.880 --> 0:59:30.400 see deer warning. Well they have signs of like up 0:59:31.120 --> 0:59:34.080 like a shadow. It's like a shadow, a shadow of 0:59:34.160 --> 0:59:36.919 four family members running. And the baby got a little 0:59:36.960 --> 0:59:38.760 teddy bear. I'm like, why they have a blanket and 0:59:38.840 --> 0:59:39.280 teddy bear? 0:59:39.400 --> 0:59:41.560 Like they think you're stashing the family Mexicans in your 0:59:41.560 --> 0:59:42.200 black suburban. 0:59:42.400 --> 0:59:47.480 Well they stopped. They stopped my driver, and you know, 0:59:48.080 --> 0:59:49.760 I was asleep, but she told me like, you know, 0:59:50.040 --> 0:59:52.720 well they stopped us, and I said, what happened. She's like, well, 0:59:53.040 --> 0:59:54.800 you know, I'm driving my client from his concert. And 0:59:55.600 --> 0:59:57.640 they said, well who's your client? So a question with 0:59:57.880 --> 0:59:59.920 love from the roots. And they were kind of like 1:00:00.080 --> 1:00:05.920 like okay, likely story, female driver, blonde, and so they 1:00:06.000 --> 1:00:09.680 made her roll down. Now you sleep. You know, yeah 1:00:09.800 --> 1:00:15.560 I was, but no, I'm saying that when he saw 1:00:16.240 --> 1:00:19.760 he's like, oh yeah, that is him. She's like, oh yeah, 1:00:19.800 --> 1:00:22.120 they looked at your your your lego was like oh 1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:25.960 that is him and rolled it up. I mean, I'm 1:00:26.000 --> 1:00:29.240 not that happens a lot. I just don't tweet about 1:00:29.280 --> 1:00:31.960 our Instagram about it every time I get stopped. But 1:00:32.640 --> 1:00:45.600 my whole point, what was my point was that the 1:00:45.720 --> 1:00:53.280 conversation of my whole the conversation that this movie brought 1:00:53.360 --> 1:00:57.480 on after we saw it was me having explained that, yes, 1:00:57.640 --> 1:01:01.840 even in my privilege, since you wait, that even I'm 1:01:03.000 --> 1:01:10.439 susceptible to to that sort of treatment, and it still happens. Yeah, 1:01:10.440 --> 1:01:12.840 but sometimes you still got to convince people of that 1:01:12.920 --> 1:01:15.480 because they just think because you're on television or that 1:01:15.600 --> 1:01:19.200 you got some dollars, that you're amused, and you're not. 1:01:19.680 --> 1:01:23.440 You're so not. And so you know, I wanted to 1:01:25.760 --> 1:01:28.360 My whole point of the song was I wanted to 1:01:28.480 --> 1:01:39.360 make a song that really speaks to liberals who in 1:01:39.440 --> 1:01:41.680 the back of their mind always have that conversation of 1:01:41.800 --> 1:01:46.320 a little tinge of doubt. Uh, and for people that 1:01:46.520 --> 1:01:48.600 just sort of sit on the sidelines, because even when 1:01:48.920 --> 1:01:52.000 like you know, I have parents that made you watch 1:01:52.160 --> 1:02:00.520 Eyes on the Prize, you know, sit down, yes, And 1:02:03.320 --> 1:02:07.880 the thing and the thing is is that, Uh, whenever 1:02:07.920 --> 1:02:10.880 I watch these documentaries, the people that I always question 1:02:11.000 --> 1:02:16.440 the most aren't those that are are committing the injustice, 1:02:16.760 --> 1:02:18.920 is those that are on the sidelines just watching. 1:02:19.720 --> 1:02:22.000 It's like that, James Boldencourt, is a thin line between 1:02:22.720 --> 1:02:24.440 what is it a witness and a participant? 1:02:25.000 --> 1:02:28.360 Yes, you know, it's very thin. It's like I almost 1:02:28.400 --> 1:02:32.120 have more hate for the witness that knows and won't 1:02:32.720 --> 1:02:36.280 at least acknowledge it at least and that's what we're 1:02:36.280 --> 1:02:38.680 going through now. It's like, oh God, please acknowledge it. 1:02:39.400 --> 1:02:43.000 And so uh In getting BELOWD to sing the song, 1:02:45.080 --> 1:02:47.320 yes you know that already because I played it for you, 1:02:55.360 --> 1:03:00.600 and getting BLOWD to sing the song, blows really the 1:03:00.720 --> 1:03:06.680 only singer that I could think of today that just 1:03:06.960 --> 1:03:12.840 encompasses everything that this ending was supposed to be. Gentle 1:03:12.920 --> 1:03:17.320 as a lamb, but ferocious as a lion. And it's 1:03:17.360 --> 1:03:19.920 a seven minute song which I let him go back 1:03:19.960 --> 1:03:28.040 shit crazy sometimes. Yeah, absolutely everything. There's even a point 1:03:28.040 --> 1:03:30.080 where he threw down the microphone. 1:03:32.200 --> 1:03:33.200 Yeah, what did you feel? 1:03:33.240 --> 1:03:33.520 The friend? 1:03:33.600 --> 1:03:36.760 Phenomenal? Phenomenal And you. 1:03:36.800 --> 1:03:38.440 Know, it was kind of weird at the time because 1:03:39.160 --> 1:03:44.040 usually when you get quote the credits song, that usually 1:03:44.160 --> 1:03:46.400 means that there might be a chance that you could 1:03:47.160 --> 1:03:51.400 get an oscar, usually for films of this nature glory. Yes, 1:03:51.600 --> 1:03:53.919 if this song is in the credits, then that means 1:03:54.080 --> 1:03:59.000 it's different Oscar. Yeah, And usually it's like, man, okay, 1:03:59.120 --> 1:04:02.320 let's get that big name and let's you know, let's 1:04:02.920 --> 1:04:04.520 let's go for it. But I mean, at the end 1:04:04.560 --> 1:04:07.240 of the day, it's like I had to go with 1:04:07.360 --> 1:04:10.919 my conviction and go with be right. 1:04:17.160 --> 1:04:19.960 Sorry but not really. 1:04:23.720 --> 1:04:27.280 Yeah, you just you. I had to go with what 1:04:27.440 --> 1:04:30.640 I felt was the right person that would really grasp 1:04:30.760 --> 1:04:31.760 your attention. 1:04:32.400 --> 1:04:34.960 He would do it, and uh, this was that. 1:04:35.160 --> 1:04:38.000 And I'm realizing that I've just spoken for the last. 1:04:42.240 --> 1:04:43.400 I just wanted to ask Catherine. 1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:46.640 So in the process of figuring out this song, this 1:04:46.800 --> 1:04:48.560 has to be huge, just has to emote, has to 1:04:48.600 --> 1:04:48.760 do this. 1:04:49.640 --> 1:04:52.680 Why a mirror or the roots are how was that called? 1:04:53.160 --> 1:04:53.320 Well? 1:04:53.360 --> 1:04:56.360 I just I love everything that he does, so and 1:04:56.440 --> 1:04:58.520 I just thought it had to it had the right 1:04:59.840 --> 1:05:04.000 I I don't know, the right emotional grabby toss and 1:05:06.080 --> 1:05:08.320 for this piece. I mean, and when he saw the 1:05:08.400 --> 1:05:10.160 movie and then we talked, it was just like I 1:05:10.360 --> 1:05:11.760 was perfect. 1:05:12.560 --> 1:05:14.480 Before though You've done that, like you did that with 1:05:14.600 --> 1:05:17.200 in Strange Days, with skunkan Nazi, with the last Like 1:05:17.320 --> 1:05:19.160 so you I've seen you do it. You know, you 1:05:19.280 --> 1:05:21.280 take like a kind of an unusual band or an 1:05:21.360 --> 1:05:24.080 unlikely choice and you know do it. At the end, 1:05:24.120 --> 1:05:25.080 I thought that was dope. 1:05:24.920 --> 1:05:27.520 Too, oh good. I just yeah, it just seemed like 1:05:27.560 --> 1:05:29.280 a perfect a perfect fit. 1:05:29.600 --> 1:05:32.840 Strange Days was my movie, Juliette. 1:05:33.200 --> 1:05:35.880 Oh my god, yeah, you're the good for that reference. 1:05:37.960 --> 1:05:46.760 I forgot about skunking all right, Well it just hit 1:05:46.840 --> 1:05:51.520 me before I went on that fifteen minute. I remember 1:05:51.600 --> 1:05:54.960 what My initial question was, why did you want to 1:05:55.000 --> 1:05:59.760 do the joy? Now I'm like, but you're you're you're 1:06:00.000 --> 1:06:05.440 operation level. The way you shot the film, did you 1:06:05.560 --> 1:06:08.720 use stock film? Like I don't know how to describe it. 1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:12.200 It almost feels like she that king died it. Oh yeah, 1:06:14.000 --> 1:06:17.360 she made it look vintage, like shooting get down. 1:06:17.960 --> 1:06:18.520 They did it first. 1:06:20.400 --> 1:06:27.960 Everybody, you just thing to bring up here. 1:06:28.920 --> 1:06:29.560 Even I know that. 1:06:30.440 --> 1:06:34.680 Okay, so when the breaks, I don't know, to. 1:06:34.760 --> 1:06:40.240 Get that Detroit in fact, just get that in Detroit. 1:06:40.720 --> 1:06:45.160 Yeah it was I mean, what was I guess my 1:06:45.400 --> 1:06:47.840 correcting that you use like certain we. 1:06:47.960 --> 1:06:52.400 Use lenses from the period and and yet digital cameras 1:06:52.480 --> 1:06:55.240 and it was like maybe two weeks before we were 1:06:55.280 --> 1:06:57.320 going to start shooting. They made it. They made it 1:06:57.440 --> 1:07:00.920 possible to adapt those lenses to these new digital cameras, 1:07:00.920 --> 1:07:04.160 which are actually a pretty small and fairly light, which 1:07:04.200 --> 1:07:07.960 gives you that sort of more nimble approach. But the 1:07:08.120 --> 1:07:12.720 vintage just gives the patina of of it gives a 1:07:12.800 --> 1:07:15.520 patina period. And then I also intercut it with some 1:07:15.640 --> 1:07:20.040 documentary footage that you know, so it kind of I 1:07:20.080 --> 1:07:23.720 don't know it co existed, or I thought it co 1:07:23.880 --> 1:07:26.120 existed fairly well to kind of give you this scope 1:07:26.240 --> 1:07:30.640 and feel and authenticity of the time, and that was 1:07:31.360 --> 1:07:32.520 that was kind of critical to me. 1:07:32.760 --> 1:07:35.439 Now I want to ask you about Will Poulter. Yeah, 1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:41.400 I'll go out there right now. I'll say that he'll 1:07:42.560 --> 1:07:47.640 I'll be shocked if he doesn't get nominated for Best 1:07:47.800 --> 1:07:50.280 I don't know if he's supporting. Would he be supporting 1:07:50.400 --> 1:07:53.800 or would he is he Maine? Wouldn't you submit those 1:07:53.880 --> 1:07:56.280 names or does the company submit those names? 1:07:56.320 --> 1:07:57.920 Oh well, we haven't even talked about it. 1:07:58.480 --> 1:08:01.440 I feel like if you submit him for Best Supporting Actor, 1:08:01.560 --> 1:08:11.440 he will win. But his level of evil is and 1:08:11.520 --> 1:08:13.320 the thing is, I know he's the opposite of that 1:08:13.440 --> 1:08:17.600 because I had to the person that I saw the 1:08:17.800 --> 1:08:21.719 movie with the first time. She was all disheveled because 1:08:21.800 --> 1:08:24.120 you know of what he represented in his other films, 1:08:24.120 --> 1:08:28.760 and he's such a gentle voice those things. So when 1:08:30.120 --> 1:08:36.639 you are portraying something that intense, when you yelled cut. 1:08:38.920 --> 1:08:41.719 Is it like okay, where's my iPhone at? And you know, okay, 1:08:42.200 --> 1:08:45.479 what's on on television in the game, and okay, order 1:08:45.520 --> 1:08:53.439 me a pizza? Okay, it's I know that one of 1:08:53.520 --> 1:08:56.400 them had to go through some sort of therapy or 1:08:59.000 --> 1:09:01.439 some sort of process to get rid of that character. 1:09:03.160 --> 1:09:06.800 Well, I mean when when I would say cut, First 1:09:06.840 --> 1:09:08.840 of all, he never lost his accent. He was in 1:09:09.439 --> 1:09:12.080 that accent for the movie twenty four to seven during 1:09:12.120 --> 1:09:15.519 the shoot, and in fact I prove off and on yes. 1:09:16.320 --> 1:09:19.120 And but when I would say cut, I would sometimes 1:09:19.360 --> 1:09:21.280 look whereas Will and I'd see him out on the 1:09:21.400 --> 1:09:23.960 porch and his head would be in his hands. I mean, 1:09:24.040 --> 1:09:27.320 it was really really hard for him, and as it 1:09:27.479 --> 1:09:31.679 was for everybody, but I mean it was extremely difficult 1:09:31.720 --> 1:09:32.000 for him. 1:09:32.080 --> 1:09:34.000 Like were they able to interact with each other? 1:09:34.240 --> 1:09:40.080 Oh yeah, camera, Oh yeah, yeah, because even like Tarantino 1:09:40.120 --> 1:09:41.760 said for Jango that like he had to do some 1:09:41.880 --> 1:09:44.280 special things with the cast, you know, in between and 1:09:44.320 --> 1:09:46.320 make sure everybody was cool because it was soultent. 1:09:46.520 --> 1:09:48.479 Yeah, you know, yeah, you have to. I mean I 1:09:48.680 --> 1:09:51.320 just and I had a conversation with everybody going into 1:09:51.400 --> 1:09:54.360 this film. I said, you know, trying to give them, 1:09:54.680 --> 1:09:56.200 you know, a sense of what the lay of the 1:09:56.280 --> 1:09:59.360 land might be and how you know how at the 1:09:59.479 --> 1:10:01.280 end of the day, they're going to be asked to 1:10:01.360 --> 1:10:03.840 talk about this movie and are they comfortable talking about this? 1:10:03.920 --> 1:10:07.040 Are you comfortable performing this? You know, yes, this really happened, 1:10:07.040 --> 1:10:10.320 but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier. And so 1:10:10.920 --> 1:10:16.639 having that conversation, they were very prepared, or I felt 1:10:16.640 --> 1:10:18.080 that they were pretty prepared going in. 1:10:18.920 --> 1:10:21.639 Did you have to do anything in terms of making 1:10:21.640 --> 1:10:23.879 sure you talk about things that do to make them comfortable? 1:10:24.240 --> 1:10:26.200 Did you have to do things to make them uncomfortable? 1:10:26.640 --> 1:10:30.479 At times? I was. It reminded me of Spike Lee 1:10:30.600 --> 1:10:33.640 in the school days. Yeah, Spike Lee school days. He 1:10:33.680 --> 1:10:36.280 would say in private Ryan where he would. 1:10:38.720 --> 1:10:40.920 Yeah, Stephen. He made all the guys that were going 1:10:40.960 --> 1:10:42.560 to get private Ryan, they all had to do like 1:10:42.680 --> 1:10:45.880 pt and all this crazy physical stuff. But Matt Damon 1:10:46.120 --> 1:10:49.679 didn't do any of it. So like they they really 1:10:49.800 --> 1:10:52.360 had that contempt for him, right we risk and I 1:10:52.439 --> 1:10:54.000 ask or say, this, motherfucker, you know what I mean? 1:10:54.040 --> 1:10:55.960 Like they've really had that. So did you have to 1:10:56.000 --> 1:10:56.840 do anything stuff like that? 1:10:57.560 --> 1:11:00.479 Early early in the shoot, they kind of kept each 1:11:00.680 --> 1:11:03.680 group kept to themselves just for that reason because if 1:11:03.720 --> 1:11:06.400 they were too friendly, it might be too difficult. And 1:11:06.680 --> 1:11:10.200 then when they became more comfortable and more relaxed with it, 1:11:10.280 --> 1:11:12.320 and I felt, I think felt more confident that they 1:11:12.360 --> 1:11:14.840 were in their character and they really understood their character 1:11:16.400 --> 1:11:20.400 than they were very close with each other. But it's 1:11:20.400 --> 1:11:22.240 a full on commitment. I mean something like this. 1:11:22.760 --> 1:11:27.200 Obviously, who's the technical advisor for the nuances of like 1:11:27.640 --> 1:11:30.080 the time how you know this is Detroit? Were talking 1:11:30.080 --> 1:11:34.200 about black folks, the slang, just the just make it 1:11:34.360 --> 1:11:35.160 making it authentic. 1:11:35.400 --> 1:11:37.400 Did you shoot it on location or yeah? 1:11:37.479 --> 1:11:37.880 Or that too? 1:11:38.400 --> 1:11:41.320 Well, we shot some of it in Detroit. Unfortunately, about 1:11:41.360 --> 1:11:43.760 a year before we started we went there where we 1:11:43.840 --> 1:11:48.040 wanted to shoot, they had disbanded their incentives program, so 1:11:48.520 --> 1:11:51.400 I needed to go to Boston to save money. Okay, 1:11:51.400 --> 1:11:53.720 because they give they have a rebate of you know, 1:11:53.920 --> 1:11:56.599 twenty five percent above and below the line. And Detroit, 1:11:56.760 --> 1:12:00.000 or rather Michigan used to but in their infinite wisdom, 1:12:00.040 --> 1:12:02.040 they disbanded it. 1:12:03.160 --> 1:12:07.400 Detroit Detroit, Yeah, us, they did that too. North Carolina 1:12:07.479 --> 1:12:09.320 did that too. Like we shot iron Man three and 1:12:09.400 --> 1:12:11.240 then was like nah, we ain't doing that no more. 1:12:11.400 --> 1:12:14.479 Yeah, and and you know it's crazy because if there 1:12:14.560 --> 1:12:18.200 was ever a city that could use this tremendous amount 1:12:18.240 --> 1:12:23.559 of revenue anyway that Yeah, So no, but we shot 1:12:24.600 --> 1:12:26.759 so we shot a lot of it in Boston. 1:12:27.400 --> 1:12:31.599 How many because there are a lot of exterior scenes. Yeah, 1:12:32.400 --> 1:12:38.840 how many blocks would you have to you know, transform 1:12:39.400 --> 1:12:43.519 to just to get it to look like that at least? 1:12:43.560 --> 1:12:43.880 How many? 1:12:44.520 --> 1:12:47.960 Actually not as much as you would think. I mean, 1:12:48.000 --> 1:12:51.519 it's fairly contained. I had an amazing production designer, Jeremy Hindle, 1:12:51.560 --> 1:12:55.680 who also did Sarah Dark and and yeah, I mean 1:12:56.320 --> 1:12:59.519 keeping it somewhat contained. And that's another benefit of a 1:12:59.600 --> 1:13:03.439 sort of documentary style. It's it you know, there isn't 1:13:03.479 --> 1:13:05.640 these big wide crane shots. I don't use cranes, you know, 1:13:05.760 --> 1:13:09.920 so you don't you know, you're just right here, you're 1:13:10.000 --> 1:13:12.400 in the car, or you're you know, over the back 1:13:12.479 --> 1:13:16.920 of somebody. So it's very it's intimate. And that actually 1:13:17.880 --> 1:13:20.560 is a benefit if you you know, don't have like 1:13:21.200 --> 1:13:23.680 giant or real estate in which to work with. 1:13:24.000 --> 1:13:26.320 So is that so did the same thing go for 1:13:26.840 --> 1:13:28.400 the costume and wardrobe? 1:13:28.479 --> 1:13:28.880 Is it? The say? 1:13:29.000 --> 1:13:31.160 Is it the same people from the other movies or 1:13:31.200 --> 1:13:32.519 did you have a little special for that. 1:13:32.760 --> 1:13:35.880 No, I used this wonderful woman fran scene for wardrobe, 1:13:35.920 --> 1:13:40.519 and she was just really I don't know, she's just 1:13:40.840 --> 1:13:44.000 extraordinary with I mean she got fabric from the period. 1:13:44.360 --> 1:13:46.719 She would like travel all over the country for fabric 1:13:46.760 --> 1:13:49.200 and then create these and then build these suits, and 1:13:49.600 --> 1:13:56.760 I mean everything was just meticulous, just meticulous, And so 1:13:56.920 --> 1:13:59.240 that was you We're really lucky to find those kind 1:13:59.240 --> 1:14:04.599 of artisans who who did that. But yeah, we were 1:14:05.120 --> 1:14:07.280 a lot of research and try the language. I mean 1:14:07.640 --> 1:14:10.519 there's a lot. I spent time with Melvin Dysmus, who 1:14:10.760 --> 1:14:13.920 John Boyega played, and a little bit of time with 1:14:14.080 --> 1:14:18.120 Larry the Dramatics, the man from the Dramatics, and he's 1:14:19.640 --> 1:14:21.439 it's hard for me to talk about this even to 1:14:21.520 --> 1:14:26.000 this day. You know, he's really I would think so 1:14:26.479 --> 1:14:29.720 and yeah, and then spend time with Julie, who was 1:14:29.800 --> 1:14:33.200 on the set every day with me, who the real 1:14:35.320 --> 1:14:38.960 that Julie played by Hannah Murray in the film, and 1:14:39.960 --> 1:14:43.840 and and she you know, she had to relive it 1:14:44.000 --> 1:14:51.519 and and and she just you know, I mean sometimes 1:14:51.560 --> 1:14:53.000 I would do a take and I'd be I look 1:14:53.040 --> 1:14:55.880 over my shoulder, and you know, would just be awful 1:14:55.920 --> 1:14:58.640 and I think, you know, it can't have been like that, 1:14:59.080 --> 1:15:00.519 and she'd say was worse. 1:15:01.040 --> 1:15:07.040 Dang, we we know. Well in the book in history 1:15:07.080 --> 1:15:11.640 is shown what the end result of the court case was. Uh, 1:15:12.080 --> 1:15:17.960 nobody in the various of course, in the various in 1:15:18.040 --> 1:15:21.040 the various lawsuits that that have occurred throughout the years 1:15:21.080 --> 1:15:23.280 of it, or the attempts to reopen the case. But 1:15:24.600 --> 1:15:28.840 always wondered if those two characters, in particular, the two 1:15:28.880 --> 1:15:32.680 white women that were caught up, did they ever have 1:15:32.880 --> 1:15:35.559 their own lawsuit or their own civil suit? 1:15:35.640 --> 1:15:40.240 And you know, not that I'm aware of, not that 1:15:40.280 --> 1:15:43.240 I'm aware of, But no, I don't think so. 1:15:43.439 --> 1:15:45.720 Yeah, because I looked all over the internet to see 1:15:46.160 --> 1:15:47.640 could they at least get justice and. 1:15:48.880 --> 1:15:58.280 Not they were they in the hotel with the guys? 1:15:58.400 --> 1:16:03.120 Yes, yeah, the real crime, The real crime was that 1:16:03.400 --> 1:16:06.360 they were in Yeah. 1:16:06.720 --> 1:16:08.880 Yeah, but that's the test, like even if white women 1:16:08.960 --> 1:16:14.479 can't get it's like yeah lost calls, bro, yeah if yeah, isn't. 1:16:14.240 --> 1:16:17.200 There a display about this in the New Smithsonian. I 1:16:17.240 --> 1:16:19.240 don't know if you if you heard about the Detroit 1:16:19.320 --> 1:16:21.200 riots or did you guys you have to go no. 1:16:21.439 --> 1:16:24.880 No, no other one in d C. Yeah, yeah, there 1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:33.280 there's uh, you know there there's a riot section every decade. 1:16:36.160 --> 1:16:38.559 It's a very it's a very lovely and beautiful display 1:16:38.640 --> 1:16:41.400 of all the riots that America that is so sad, 1:16:41.680 --> 1:16:46.160 it's so hilarious. Yeah, god, I mean it goes from uh, 1:16:47.080 --> 1:16:50.200 Black Wall Street in Oklahoma and right, here's you know, 1:16:50.760 --> 1:16:56.240 in Memphis, and here's Detroit and here's Los Angeles. Yeah, 1:16:56.439 --> 1:16:59.680 it's like they have extra room for the future one that. 1:17:02.920 --> 1:17:03.280 I don't know. 1:17:04.439 --> 1:17:06.240 But it's funny because it brings a question. 1:17:07.040 --> 1:17:09.400 It brings a question about riots and what do you 1:17:09.479 --> 1:17:12.800 think made the Detroit riots stand out from what else? 1:17:12.880 --> 1:17:13.439 What had happened? 1:17:13.600 --> 1:17:17.040 Why could they recover? Like what do you in your research? 1:17:17.960 --> 1:17:22.679 I feel as though this riot currently has Detroit where 1:17:22.760 --> 1:17:24.760 they are now? Like when I think of Detroit, I 1:17:24.840 --> 1:17:29.880 think of a CPS owned black and write desolate. Yeah, 1:17:30.040 --> 1:17:38.120 it's the American London. Yeah, and it's why do you 1:17:38.200 --> 1:17:41.080 think that they have yet to recover? And the importance 1:17:41.120 --> 1:17:44.800 of you releasing this film on the fiftieth anniversary of 1:17:44.960 --> 1:17:48.640 those riots on August fourth, twenty seventeen. 1:17:49.840 --> 1:17:52.400 Well, I think that's you know, that's a that's a 1:17:52.479 --> 1:17:57.439 really good question. I mean, I I don't know. I 1:17:57.479 --> 1:18:01.240 mean I think of the city as both equal parts resilient, 1:18:01.439 --> 1:18:04.200 and certainly the people I see I meet, they're really resilient. 1:18:04.840 --> 1:18:08.639 But at the same time, it's still a city that's 1:18:09.640 --> 1:18:12.920 that's been a war zone and it hasn't really recovered 1:18:12.960 --> 1:18:15.400 from the war zone, and that's you know, so it's 1:18:15.479 --> 1:18:21.080 kind of this weird dichotomy. And and I don't know. 1:18:22.880 --> 1:18:25.439 Yeah, I guess sometimes. 1:18:27.720 --> 1:18:29.240 I wish, I know, not. 1:18:31.479 --> 1:18:33.599 To put you on the spot, but I just I'm curious. 1:18:33.840 --> 1:18:36.400 I got to ask, do you feel like, because of 1:18:36.479 --> 1:18:38.640 this movie and the subject matter and everything else, that 1:18:38.840 --> 1:18:41.640 there should be is there a relationship with Detroit? I mean, 1:18:41.640 --> 1:18:43.160 I know you said you didn't you didn't shoot there, 1:18:43.479 --> 1:18:45.680 but a relationship in a way of like, you know 1:18:45.760 --> 1:18:47.680 that since they have the water issue, they have so 1:18:47.800 --> 1:18:49.080 many issues. 1:18:48.760 --> 1:18:52.320 Like it's not meant like, is there like a charitable relationship? 1:18:52.760 --> 1:18:53.560 Do you ever think about it? 1:18:54.000 --> 1:18:56.320 I think so, yes, they have seen it. We did 1:18:56.360 --> 1:18:57.960 a few screens and now we're going there for a 1:18:58.000 --> 1:19:02.720 premiere and we did shoot therefore, you know, maybe five 1:19:02.840 --> 1:19:04.960 six days, so we did shoot something there. 1:19:05.080 --> 1:19:06.640 So they got a little bit of the money from the. 1:19:06.880 --> 1:19:12.320 Absolutely absolutely, and I think you know, I mean, I mean, 1:19:12.400 --> 1:19:16.000 this is definitely a part of their past and and 1:19:18.040 --> 1:19:20.479 and so you know, but I think, I don't know. 1:19:20.720 --> 1:19:23.840 It speaks both to a kind of strength in that 1:19:25.000 --> 1:19:26.680 I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of 1:19:26.720 --> 1:19:30.160 there's a huge art artist community there now and then 1:19:30.200 --> 1:19:33.120 that's kind of exciting and thriving. And yet at the 1:19:33.200 --> 1:19:38.200 same time, I mean, this tragedy is is imprinted, you know, 1:19:38.280 --> 1:19:42.760 in the DNA of the city. And and yet I 1:19:42.840 --> 1:19:47.200 mean again there's a tremendous amount of anger that precipitated it. 1:19:47.320 --> 1:19:49.960 But unlike let's say the Rodney King, right, I mean 1:19:50.000 --> 1:19:54.120 that that had a very specific flash point, the La riots, 1:19:54.120 --> 1:19:55.440 whereas this was attritional. 1:19:55.479 --> 1:19:57.439 I mean, this was right because it wasn't one bit 1:19:57.920 --> 1:20:01.599 off the riot just like Instice and people were fed up, exactly. 1:20:01.920 --> 1:20:08.200 And so you know, justice is the the conversation, you know, Jacob, Yeah, exactly. 1:20:08.280 --> 1:20:10.599 And you know, you can't heal until this you're hurt, 1:20:10.880 --> 1:20:15.599 you know, So maybe there's a a dialogue that can 1:20:16.479 --> 1:20:17.280 start in Detroit. 1:20:17.439 --> 1:20:21.920 And how many screens have you done in Detroit? 1:20:22.120 --> 1:20:26.880 And what's the general how many screenings we did well, 1:20:27.160 --> 1:20:30.040 we did a screening for the chief of police there. 1:20:30.600 --> 1:20:32.960 Oh wow, oh boy, how did that go? 1:20:36.439 --> 1:20:39.320 He wants it to be required viewing for every member 1:20:39.320 --> 1:20:44.719 of law enforcement. Seriously, yes, yes, yes. 1:20:46.040 --> 1:20:46.799 I got a response. 1:20:56.400 --> 1:20:57.920 That's great time. 1:20:59.520 --> 1:21:02.960 That's crazy to me. That was the last thing I 1:21:03.080 --> 1:21:04.760 was going to expect. Detroit is about to be the 1:21:04.800 --> 1:21:09.080 police eyes on the price. It's like required. 1:21:09.240 --> 1:21:11.880 It's like the video to make you watch exactly pizza 1:21:12.080 --> 1:21:14.560 or something your train and enjoy it. 1:21:15.400 --> 1:21:19.000 Wow, just clean the water, I know, right, just clean. 1:21:21.880 --> 1:21:24.240 So I think it's you know, is there is there 1:21:24.240 --> 1:21:27.120 a way forward? I mean certainly, And we've screened it 1:21:27.200 --> 1:21:30.000 for some faith based groups, and you know, we're trying 1:21:30.080 --> 1:21:32.519 to get it out there, and of course it comes 1:21:32.560 --> 1:21:40.640 out nationwide, so you know, maybe maybe you know it 1:21:40.760 --> 1:21:45.679 can be of some help open dialogue, dialogue exactly. 1:21:46.000 --> 1:21:51.000 So once this is like when you put your baby 1:21:51.040 --> 1:21:54.519 away and you go to the premiere and you do 1:21:54.680 --> 1:21:58.880 the last press junket and I'm sure that movie season 1:21:59.000 --> 1:22:05.200 is over after February Oscar time, At what point do 1:22:05.360 --> 1:22:08.760 you start researching your next project? Like do you overlap 1:22:08.920 --> 1:22:12.639 or are you going to swim in Hawaii for two 1:22:12.680 --> 1:22:17.799 weeks and just like you know, do you watch friends 1:22:17.880 --> 1:22:19.040 on TBS. 1:22:18.800 --> 1:22:24.080 Like watches Fred the TBS. 1:22:25.320 --> 1:22:29.960 Change the channel, dude, It's like I've fallen down many 1:22:30.000 --> 1:22:31.280 a friend's rabbit hole, Like. 1:22:32.160 --> 1:22:36.160 My rabbit hole is American Ninja Warrior's supposed to be 1:22:36.240 --> 1:22:36.800 family guy. 1:22:38.960 --> 1:22:44.439 So for you, like, are you thinking about the next project? 1:22:44.520 --> 1:22:44.560 No? 1:22:44.800 --> 1:22:45.200 I can't. 1:22:47.320 --> 1:22:50.760 Yeah, but we're not acting like you. I mean, you've 1:22:50.880 --> 1:22:56.040 done you Your average is a year and a half 1:22:56.160 --> 1:22:59.360 to two years between films, So it's like I imagine 1:22:59.360 --> 1:23:03.200 that you least have to research six to seven months 1:23:03.240 --> 1:23:04.920 before you're like, all right, let's green like this. 1:23:05.560 --> 1:23:07.479 But just got to be exhausted though right now. But 1:23:08.080 --> 1:23:08.880 even had the energy. 1:23:09.120 --> 1:23:11.720 But this is also your production company, correct, Like is this? 1:23:12.760 --> 1:23:12.880 Oh? 1:23:12.920 --> 1:23:15.760 I worked with them with Anna Perna, who are fabulous 1:23:16.320 --> 1:23:20.880 on zero Dark thirty and so so that was a 1:23:20.920 --> 1:23:24.439 good kind of you know, continuity there. But yeah, I 1:23:24.479 --> 1:23:26.840 don't know, this was a few years actually, kind of 1:23:26.920 --> 1:23:30.559 five years from release to release, so it's been. 1:23:30.479 --> 1:23:31.040 A little while. 1:23:31.400 --> 1:23:37.160 So you're saying that maybe twenty twenty two. Can you 1:23:37.320 --> 1:23:41.880 go that long? Because again, if you're not popcorn budget, 1:23:42.960 --> 1:23:45.920 you know, yeah, two hundred and fifty million, I mean 1:23:46.160 --> 1:23:49.600 I can imagine that the light bill has to be 1:23:49.720 --> 1:23:55.360 paid and stuff like that, So it would be whoviy 1:23:55.400 --> 1:23:58.120 you at least know what the plan is for twenty nineteen. 1:23:58.439 --> 1:24:01.960 It would if you have any story, I'm open. 1:24:02.680 --> 1:24:04.479 Would you would you go out of wait? Let me 1:24:04.600 --> 1:24:07.560 just ask, would you ever go off type and just 1:24:07.720 --> 1:24:19.639 do romantic? Yeah? Like a Froffy Yeah you've got mail 1:24:19.680 --> 1:24:20.040 part two? 1:24:21.240 --> 1:24:23.000 Wow, John. 1:24:25.720 --> 1:24:30.920 Version of a romantic A man and his dog? 1:24:32.920 --> 1:24:37.440 How do you you know when you're between projects? Like financially? 1:24:37.479 --> 1:24:38.880 I mean, how do you make that work? 1:24:38.960 --> 1:24:40.880 In terms of I do commercials? 1:24:41.400 --> 1:24:41.559 Wait? 1:24:41.600 --> 1:24:43.599 Are y'all saying that Catherine go broke in between projects? 1:24:43.600 --> 1:24:45.519 Because I'm real. 1:24:45.600 --> 1:24:50.479 Artists, Real artists have to keep jobs. I have nineteen Yes, 1:24:50.760 --> 1:24:54.920 this is I have nineteen jobs. Yeah, I got one job. 1:24:55.280 --> 1:25:00.400 One job does not pay me to pay you. One 1:25:00.400 --> 1:25:02.559 of the job does not baby enough to pay you, guys. 1:25:03.120 --> 1:25:06.080 I got it. I gotta paid this fascinating. So commercials, 1:25:06.120 --> 1:25:07.800 that's like you do you do those kind of in 1:25:07.880 --> 1:25:11.640 your I do? And are you uh? 1:25:12.439 --> 1:25:13.840 Do you uh a different name? 1:25:14.120 --> 1:25:14.679 Alan Smith? 1:25:16.840 --> 1:25:16.880 No? 1:25:17.600 --> 1:25:19.760 No, but so you don't do like the hinds kept up? 1:25:19.800 --> 1:25:22.360 Catchup commercial Japanese commercials like. 1:25:22.880 --> 1:25:26.760 I haven't done those, but it's I don't know, it's 1:25:26.800 --> 1:25:30.639 interesting because that's where I can kind of maybe check 1:25:30.680 --> 1:25:32.519 out of content a little bit and just look at 1:25:32.560 --> 1:25:36.519 it from an equipment and tech technical standpoint, you know, 1:25:36.680 --> 1:25:37.800 just the mechanics of film. 1:25:38.520 --> 1:25:40.720 I figured that's harder though, because you have to tell 1:25:40.760 --> 1:25:46.439 a story in thirty seconds, which you specifically I don't 1:25:46.479 --> 1:25:48.880 know if it's like the level of your commercials, are 1:25:50.320 --> 1:25:55.000 you know, Mercedes or classy Curl like would you says 1:25:56.040 --> 1:25:58.320 I'm sorry. I was watching the Soul Train episode before 1:25:58.320 --> 1:26:06.439 I got here, so in my head, I'm sorry. I Uh. 1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:09.640 What I'm saying is when you do commercials, is it 1:26:10.600 --> 1:26:17.400 harder to make an impact or or tell the story 1:26:17.439 --> 1:26:20.600 in thirty seconds to a minute however long the commercial is, 1:26:21.200 --> 1:26:23.640 than it is to tell a story in which you 1:26:23.680 --> 1:26:26.800 have complete control of I don't know. 1:26:26.920 --> 1:26:27.760 I like the. 1:26:29.360 --> 1:26:31.479 I kind of like the challenge of you know, like 1:26:32.120 --> 1:26:35.080 thirty seconds or a minute. You know you're just I mean, 1:26:35.160 --> 1:26:37.080 it's a it's it's a deep dive. 1:26:37.520 --> 1:26:39.479 You give an example of a commercial that you've done 1:26:39.520 --> 1:26:41.280 that we've all seen, but it's a different part of 1:26:41.320 --> 1:26:41.800 your brain, right. 1:26:41.880 --> 1:26:42.800 It's a different part of your brain. 1:26:43.080 --> 1:26:43.599 I look at them. 1:26:43.640 --> 1:26:45.880 When I do commercials, it's like one thing, and when 1:26:45.920 --> 1:26:47.360 you do creative things, totally different things. 1:26:47.439 --> 1:26:51.760 Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, but it's hard. He is who 1:26:52.080 --> 1:26:56.800 it's it's but it's it's hard. It's not my version 1:26:56.840 --> 1:27:00.200 of the commercial the sandwiches. Yeah, when they ask to 1:27:00.240 --> 1:27:03.920 do seven second stingers. So if there's a new bit, 1:27:05.080 --> 1:27:11.360 you know, sidewalk movies, and they need usually like Mark Elliott. 1:27:11.600 --> 1:27:14.280 Yeah, but that's not because that's where you come from. 1:27:14.400 --> 1:27:16.599 You do come from long form, but people come from. 1:27:16.720 --> 1:27:18.799 The song I submitted to her film is seven minutes 1:27:21.840 --> 1:27:24.840 like three minutes, because I knew he has to simmer 1:27:24.920 --> 1:27:28.360 and cook. He's not microwave, you know, but at fallon, 1:27:29.280 --> 1:27:33.599 you got to have a catchy ass jingle in seven seconds. 1:27:33.800 --> 1:27:37.679 In radio, you're supposed to talk for thirty seconds, sometimes 1:27:37.760 --> 1:27:38.680 in a minute, and. 1:27:39.320 --> 1:27:41.800 But sometimes you have a script and you know, you 1:27:41.920 --> 1:27:44.519 get into a rhythm of how's your day or fifty 1:27:46.360 --> 1:27:50.040 and this is Yeah. 1:27:50.080 --> 1:27:53.240 The guy who did it was similar what Catherine was saying. 1:27:53.280 --> 1:27:55.320 The guy that did the I was in an interview. 1:27:55.080 --> 1:27:58.919 With the guy that did the Windows startup music. 1:28:00.880 --> 1:28:04.400 Right, and he was saying how that was like once 1:28:04.479 --> 1:28:06.599 he got into that, like he had to do God, 1:28:06.680 --> 1:28:09.479 have a many revisions until they finally got it. But 1:28:09.560 --> 1:28:11.679 he said, like once he was so used to working 1:28:11.760 --> 1:28:14.240 in like that little five or six seconds. Once he 1:28:14.360 --> 1:28:17.920 sat down to write a song that felt like that universe. 1:28:17.640 --> 1:28:18.280 That's my life. 1:28:18.360 --> 1:28:19.840 Like I can't write a three and a half minute 1:28:19.880 --> 1:28:21.720 song anymore. I can write, I can write, I can 1:28:21.800 --> 1:28:25.160 crush a minute. But yeah, that's right because this street 1:28:25.280 --> 1:28:26.880 your songs are like ninety seconds. 1:28:26.920 --> 1:28:27.879 Yeah, at the most. 1:28:29.960 --> 1:28:31.439 Street, I'm the firse chorus. 1:28:32.520 --> 1:28:34.080 Cat like, I don't do bridges anymore. 1:28:35.400 --> 1:28:36.479 Electric company, get. 1:28:36.479 --> 1:28:37.080 Right to the point. 1:28:37.520 --> 1:28:38.800 I see, I see. 1:28:39.040 --> 1:28:41.880 Anyway, that's not what we're talking about, Cat biglow. 1:28:43.120 --> 1:28:43.280 Question. 1:28:43.800 --> 1:28:45.439 Interesting since I'm talking uh. 1:28:47.160 --> 1:28:49.080 My fifteen year old we would be super pissed if 1:28:49.120 --> 1:28:54.000 you didn't bring up Point Break conversation. Uh part of 1:28:54.040 --> 1:28:55.599 me once like remember when you made a point break 1:28:55.600 --> 1:28:58.599 because it's awesome, but like like did you have any 1:28:58.720 --> 1:29:01.120 concept of the impact that movie would have? And like 1:29:01.439 --> 1:29:05.400 that we were talking about, like uh think like TBS friends, 1:29:05.400 --> 1:29:08.479 like if comes on the television, I can't sat like wait, 1:29:08.600 --> 1:29:09.840 I'm done for the next hour and a half. 1:29:10.439 --> 1:29:11.479 Can I add on to that? 1:29:11.600 --> 1:29:12.760 Yes? Please, you're the boss? 1:29:12.880 --> 1:29:18.040 Are you even Catherine? Are you even aware of this 1:29:18.439 --> 1:29:23.040 new uh embracing of point break from millennials? Like for 1:29:23.160 --> 1:29:26.160 some reason, usually on weekends I will go to a 1:29:26.240 --> 1:29:28.720 movie theater and see a throwback film, like there'll some 1:29:29.000 --> 1:29:32.519 art house film, will you know? So like, and what's 1:29:32.560 --> 1:29:37.200 weird is that there's a new culture of this generation 1:29:38.000 --> 1:29:43.680 that looks at intense drama films as comedies. And when 1:29:43.760 --> 1:29:47.280 I saw a point Break at the Nighthawk, like three 1:29:47.360 --> 1:29:50.599 months ago, any line that Keanu Reeves said. 1:29:53.880 --> 1:29:56.320 Reeves, I mean, there's so many, like the whole thing 1:29:56.560 --> 1:29:57.520 is amazing. 1:29:57.160 --> 1:30:00.320 But I realized he was this most Keanu in point 1:30:00.400 --> 1:30:01.920 where he could be. 1:30:02.000 --> 1:30:04.720 He was free. It was like I could be mean. 1:30:05.040 --> 1:30:07.240 So what was it like in your head? Did you 1:30:08.040 --> 1:30:11.400 have any idea that twenty five years from now? Like, dude, 1:30:11.600 --> 1:30:17.400 that voice like it's the best I'd like, whoa, Like 1:30:17.560 --> 1:30:19.240 how do you? How do you direct that film? 1:30:19.320 --> 1:30:19.519 Where? 1:30:20.439 --> 1:30:22.840 But he's Californian because I know a lot of dudes 1:30:22.880 --> 1:30:25.120 that talk like that in California. So it's almost like, 1:30:25.520 --> 1:30:27.439 like what's going on in your head as he's acting, 1:30:27.560 --> 1:30:33.560 Like you're just like that's Ted from Excellent. Well that 1:30:33.800 --> 1:30:36.080 was you know that you could be honest? No, no, 1:30:36.280 --> 1:30:39.200 it was because I see you trying to the words. 1:30:40.320 --> 1:30:43.760 It was actually a real challenge to get the movie 1:30:43.840 --> 1:30:48.240 made with with somebody who had hadn't didn't have that kind. 1:30:48.120 --> 1:30:51.759 Of you know, action spirit, no actions. 1:30:52.479 --> 1:30:53.839 Well wrong word. 1:30:58.960 --> 1:31:02.040 And coming from Phil and Ted's you know, you're like, okay, 1:31:02.080 --> 1:31:04.080 well now how can he You know, I was just 1:31:04.240 --> 1:31:07.439 trying to process that and I I don't know, I 1:31:07.600 --> 1:31:08.320 just I thought. 1:31:08.160 --> 1:31:10.360 He was was it salt? No? 1:31:10.439 --> 1:31:10.479 No? 1:31:10.600 --> 1:31:10.640 No? 1:31:10.800 --> 1:31:12.040 Did you say I want that guy? 1:31:12.200 --> 1:31:12.920 I want that guy? 1:31:13.920 --> 1:31:14.519 And what did they? 1:31:14.680 --> 1:31:17.880 What did Hollywood say? What did the producers say? Well? 1:31:18.160 --> 1:31:24.880 No, because because I know, it's just it's just the 1:31:25.000 --> 1:31:27.720 way that how can I say it? I mean, I 1:31:27.920 --> 1:31:29.920 was just convinced that he'd be perfect for this part. 1:31:30.040 --> 1:31:31.680 He was Johnny Utah, that was the name of the 1:31:31.760 --> 1:31:38.560 piece originally. And and and then I finally found a 1:31:38.680 --> 1:31:42.600 producer who, again just like hurt Locker, I was like okay, like, 1:31:43.120 --> 1:31:47.240 well we'll take a flyer and I said yes. So 1:31:48.040 --> 1:31:48.800 I was really lucky. 1:31:48.920 --> 1:31:50.560 We are you surprised that the sus of it? 1:31:51.439 --> 1:32:07.240 Yeah, and when you saw the remake I did see it, Okayan, But. 1:32:07.320 --> 1:32:09.160 Did you see Point Break Live? Any of you? 1:32:09.840 --> 1:32:11.120 There's a live break. 1:32:11.200 --> 1:32:15.840 Oh, it's been for years. It's a performance. I don't 1:32:15.840 --> 1:32:17.160 have anything to do with it. All I know it's 1:32:17.160 --> 1:32:21.280 called point Break Live. It's probably here somewhere, certainly it's 1:32:22.479 --> 1:32:25.960 It was in Los Angeles and I went with Edgar 1:32:26.000 --> 1:32:27.839 Wright one because he wanted to see it and he wanted. 1:32:27.640 --> 1:32:32.120 To Yeah, I know, yeah, and different one. 1:32:33.960 --> 1:32:37.200 The other one, yeah, the one that didn't do show 1:32:37.880 --> 1:32:44.680 right right, that one. And anyway, there's a character in 1:32:44.760 --> 1:32:46.920 it that plays me. It's very funny and she's like 1:32:47.080 --> 1:32:50.360 got a megaphone and you know half the time. Oh, 1:32:50.479 --> 1:32:53.439 it's really I mean, you have you buy your ticket 1:32:53.520 --> 1:32:57.040 and they give you like a clear poncho because for 1:32:57.160 --> 1:32:59.040 the wave sequences they throw water all off. 1:33:01.479 --> 1:33:04.200 I want to I want to go there. 1:33:05.920 --> 1:33:08.360 And they picked somebody from the audience for Keanu each 1:33:08.520 --> 1:33:12.240 night with and they give them a card that you know, yeah, 1:33:12.280 --> 1:33:19.559 so it could be still it's going on for years. 1:33:20.240 --> 1:33:22.240 You or did you just show ambushing one night? 1:33:22.400 --> 1:33:24.880 No, we just ambushed. But then they realized it was 1:33:25.520 --> 1:33:28.120 that I was there, and then you know, when they 1:33:28.200 --> 1:33:32.120 robbed the banks, they came and robbed both Edgar and everything. 1:33:32.520 --> 1:33:36.880 Everything that we had they took and it was it 1:33:37.000 --> 1:33:40.280 was fabulous. I don't know. 1:33:40.960 --> 1:33:44.040 I'm looking on Google right now, Catherine. 1:33:44.040 --> 1:33:46.080 Have you ever had an issue with someone taking direction 1:33:46.240 --> 1:33:48.439 from you because they've never worked with the female director? 1:33:50.760 --> 1:33:54.560 Well, I don't, unless you'd like to. 1:34:01.800 --> 1:34:05.000 I think I don't know. I've I think either I've 1:34:05.040 --> 1:34:09.679 been lucky or you know, I kind of I steer 1:34:09.840 --> 1:34:17.519 clear of assholes. Assholes exactly, you know, but I mean, 1:34:17.560 --> 1:34:21.800 you know, you can you can sense a sort of 1:34:21.960 --> 1:34:26.760 attitude and I move away, I move I'm moving the 1:34:26.800 --> 1:34:30.760 opposite direction. But no, I've been really lucky, you know, 1:34:30.960 --> 1:34:31.799 Crewe and cast. 1:34:33.240 --> 1:34:35.519 One thing I was always curious about, for the time 1:34:35.560 --> 1:34:38.680 that you were with James Cameron, what was it like 1:34:38.840 --> 1:34:43.120 to be, you know, for two creative people in one household. 1:34:44.560 --> 1:34:45.280 What was that like? 1:34:47.560 --> 1:34:54.800 Well, yeah, seconism and now who you used to be married? 1:34:56.240 --> 1:35:02.640 Let's that was that was? 1:35:02.800 --> 1:35:06.280 I mean, we're actually great friends, so I mean it 1:35:06.439 --> 1:35:11.200 was it was kind of fabulous for the time that 1:35:11.320 --> 1:35:13.840 it was fabulous, until it was no longer fabulous. But 1:35:16.600 --> 1:35:18.400 I mean we talk a lot about film, as you 1:35:18.479 --> 1:35:21.840 can imagine, you know, like like, you know. 1:35:22.240 --> 1:35:24.719 Just did you steer each other away from projects? 1:35:24.800 --> 1:35:28.160 Like two film nerds in the same household a lot 1:35:28.240 --> 1:35:29.720 of that, Like, you know, why are you using so 1:35:29.760 --> 1:35:30.360 many close ups? 1:35:30.360 --> 1:35:31.800 Why are you using so many what are you using 1:35:31.840 --> 1:35:33.599 white angle? Why are you using it twenty four when 1:35:33.600 --> 1:35:35.320 you could use this three hundred? You know, it's that 1:35:35.439 --> 1:35:36.200 kind of conversation. 1:35:36.720 --> 1:35:41.160 So over you. 1:35:43.960 --> 1:35:44.800 Let your petty flag. 1:35:46.840 --> 1:35:50.240 I completely was I was surprised. I mean I thought 1:35:50.280 --> 1:35:51.639 one hundred percent it was Avatar. 1:35:52.280 --> 1:35:55.320 It was not in any way, so not any endpoint. 1:35:55.400 --> 1:35:57.040 Did you give him a side eye as you walked 1:35:57.120 --> 1:35:57.679 up to the podio? 1:35:57.760 --> 1:36:03.520 No, no, no, definitely. 1:36:10.520 --> 1:36:11.519 Looking at the oscar. 1:36:15.439 --> 1:36:20.720 Well, we're silly like that. We're just trying to be 1:36:20.880 --> 1:36:23.280 very respectful and use the good China. 1:36:25.760 --> 1:36:26.479 In China. 1:36:27.000 --> 1:36:31.600 Yeah, exactly know, we had a paper plays out we 1:36:33.680 --> 1:36:36.760 bring well. No, you know, I figure at some point 1:36:36.840 --> 1:36:41.639 you might get tired of of having to represent what's 1:36:41.640 --> 1:36:43.559 it like to be at the mountaintop and the boys club, 1:36:43.600 --> 1:36:46.519 and I know it gets tired of something that you 1:36:46.600 --> 1:36:50.160 would want to just be a director, not the first 1:36:50.200 --> 1:36:51.400 female or history making. 1:36:51.760 --> 1:36:54.360 So isn't there is there a female director collective? 1:36:55.000 --> 1:36:59.519 Like, well, there's there's a kind of a kind of 1:36:59.600 --> 1:37:02.439 like that DTA Director Skilled of America is the steering committee, 1:37:02.560 --> 1:37:08.000 And I mean, you you know, I suppose my feeling 1:37:08.160 --> 1:37:12.320 is I've always resisted a conversation about your woman doing. 1:37:12.400 --> 1:37:14.880 You know, I think that kind of ghettoizes women, you know, 1:37:14.960 --> 1:37:19.840 in other words, that actually prevents a perceptual in other words, 1:37:19.880 --> 1:37:23.559 it it siloizes them. And so you know, I think 1:37:23.560 --> 1:37:25.719 of myself as a filmmaker. I don't think of myself 1:37:25.760 --> 1:37:26.679 as a woman director. 1:37:27.280 --> 1:37:29.040 So there's no Sundays with Sophia and. 1:37:32.040 --> 1:37:33.920 I just I just don't think of that only because 1:37:33.920 --> 1:37:35.920 I think it, well, I don't think like that because 1:37:35.920 --> 1:37:38.960 I think it perpetuates that inequity. 1:37:39.120 --> 1:37:42.240 But what about from a mentorship standpoint, because it is 1:37:42.360 --> 1:37:44.600 and I'm guessing that there is an inequity in the 1:37:44.720 --> 1:37:47.600 numbers of the female directors. 1:37:47.280 --> 1:37:51.000 And seven percent you mean that that kind of inequity. 1:37:51.760 --> 1:37:53.479 I mean, I don't know, it's that like sixty cents 1:37:53.479 --> 1:37:57.400 to a dollar to me, but the facts facts. But yeah, 1:37:57.479 --> 1:37:59.840 so what about on that note, because there is a 1:38:00.080 --> 1:38:02.320 economy of Okay, I don't want to be the female director, 1:38:02.400 --> 1:38:03.320 but hey, it's not. 1:38:03.400 --> 1:38:03.920 A lot of us. 1:38:04.000 --> 1:38:06.920 So how do I is the game where you become 1:38:07.479 --> 1:38:11.240 moreau like do you run? Do you imagine like maybe 1:38:12.439 --> 1:38:16.160 fifteen years from now you will have your own paramount 1:38:16.360 --> 1:38:16.680 where you. 1:38:19.240 --> 1:38:19.479 Wow. 1:38:19.680 --> 1:38:23.080 Make sure that again like again, you said that, you 1:38:23.120 --> 1:38:25.160 already said that you don't want to focus on the 1:38:25.200 --> 1:38:28.080 sex of it, but at least from what you know. 1:38:28.320 --> 1:38:32.000 And I know that you've had a lot of mansplanning 1:38:32.520 --> 1:38:35.599 done in your life and a bunch of no's told 1:38:35.680 --> 1:38:41.280 to you, and you've saw injustice where your male counterparts 1:38:41.320 --> 1:38:44.559 would have gotten that and sure petty shit like, well, 1:38:44.600 --> 1:38:46.559 I think it should be done this way and that whatever. 1:38:48.320 --> 1:38:50.880 So is there any desire to I would like to 1:38:50.960 --> 1:38:54.519 open my own production company and give fellow means out 1:38:54.560 --> 1:38:57.880 there a voice or that sort of thing. 1:38:58.280 --> 1:39:03.479 Well, I'm well, I'm working with I do you know, 1:39:03.560 --> 1:39:07.760 I'm producing a couple of things, and I try to 1:39:08.400 --> 1:39:10.800 you know, I try to give back in that way. 1:39:10.880 --> 1:39:15.920 And I suppose also in the world of philanthropy, as 1:39:15.960 --> 1:39:21.600 I said, elephant conservation or any wildlife trafficking conservation, So 1:39:21.760 --> 1:39:26.040 you try to give back in a way that's meaningful. 1:39:26.720 --> 1:39:28.960 But I also am a creative advisor at Sundance, and 1:39:29.080 --> 1:39:32.280 that's where I sort of spend most of my energy 1:39:32.360 --> 1:39:33.160 of trying. 1:39:32.880 --> 1:39:34.559 To even at the score. 1:39:35.160 --> 1:39:37.559 Well, yeah, to a certain extent. On the other hand, 1:39:37.600 --> 1:39:40.160 I sort of always walk away from that feeling like 1:39:40.200 --> 1:39:42.280 I get way more than anybody else. You know, It's 1:39:42.400 --> 1:39:45.560 just I don't know. Do you know the kind of 1:39:46.720 --> 1:39:51.600 I don't presume to be able to. I mean, I 1:39:51.720 --> 1:39:53.800 never want to tell somebody what to do. I just 1:39:53.920 --> 1:39:57.040 want to do what I do and hope that inspires 1:39:57.120 --> 1:40:02.320 others to carry on. I always tell them, don't take 1:40:02.360 --> 1:40:05.360 no for an answer. No, it doesn't exist in your world, 1:40:05.479 --> 1:40:07.000 in your universe. No doesn't exist. 1:40:07.680 --> 1:40:13.599 Well said, I know that. I know this much. Thank 1:40:13.600 --> 1:40:16.080 you very much, Kavin Bigelo for coming on Quest Love Supreme. 1:40:16.120 --> 1:40:18.600 I appreciate, thank you, thank you, thank you, all of you. 1:40:19.040 --> 1:40:24.679 All of you and on behalf of Boss Bill, Unpaid 1:40:24.720 --> 1:40:29.560 Bill Sugar, Steve Fon Ticcolo and Laiya aka Margaret. We 1:40:29.720 --> 1:40:32.839 thank you Kavin Bigelow for coming on the show, reminding 1:40:32.920 --> 1:40:35.200 all VPU out there because you enjoyed to have a 1:40:35.240 --> 1:40:39.160 conversation about what's going on. Get involved. Just don't be 1:40:39.800 --> 1:40:42.840 a couch critic and criticize. You're telling me you'll do 1:40:43.000 --> 1:40:46.439 something about it. This Quest Love Supreme. Thank you very much. 1:40:46.479 --> 1:40:48.400 I will see you the next go round. I wish 1:40:48.479 --> 1:41:01.440 you love peace. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. 1:41:01.960 --> 1:41:05.320 This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora. 1:41:08.200 --> 1:41:12.560 For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 1:41:13.040 --> 1:41:14.719 or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.