Speaker 1: Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio. This classic
Speaker 1: episode was produced by the team at Pandora. Ladies and gentlemen,
Speaker 1: Welcome to another episode of Quest Love Supreme QLs Classic Edition.
Speaker 1: This episode is from August ninth, twenty seventeen, with Katherine Bigelow,
Speaker 1: director Academy Award winning director Katherine Victim. We go through
Speaker 1: our entire canon, especially her film Zerolay Dog thirty, The
Speaker 1: hurt Locker Detroit, and an unintentional comedy called Point Breaking.
Speaker 1: We hope you enjoy it. This. This is Quest Love
Speaker 1: Supreme US Classic Edition. Bicky a World Premier.
Speaker 2: Supreme, Sign Supreme, Supreme, Sun Sign Supreme, Supreme Sign Supremo,
Speaker 2: Roll Supreme Sun.
Speaker 1: Supreme to the entire world. Yeah, I grieve you with
Speaker 1: Hello Yeah. Translation to Detroit.
Speaker 3: Yeah, what up though, Supremo Supremo Role, Supremo Son Supremo Rod.
Speaker 1: My name is Fante. Yeah, let's keep it dirty. Yeah.
Speaker 1: My skin complexion yeah zero dark dirty Supremo Rodd. Name
Speaker 1: is Sugar.
Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm pretty big.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 5: What's my point?
Speaker 4: Yeah, Point.
Speaker 3: Supremo Role, Sumo Son Supremo Role.
Speaker 1: I'm on pay bill.
Speaker 3: Yeah.
Speaker 6: She y'all don't sue me. Yeah, I wanted to thank
Speaker 6: Catherine Bigelow for Gary Busey.
Speaker 3: Supremo Roll Supreme Supreme Roll.
Speaker 7: I'm like em yeah, and I'm the ship. Yeah, sitting
Speaker 7: next to an Oscar winner. Yeah, but I ain't gona trip.
Speaker 7: Roll Come.
Speaker 3: Supremo, Roll Call Supremo, Supremo.
Speaker 4: Roll Bill don't care, Yeah about how you feel?
Speaker 1: Yeah, but Ron Silver Yeah it was Ellen Blue Steel Supremo,
Speaker 1: Roll Call Supreme, So Supreme, roll Come.
Speaker 8: I'm Catherine yeah and peace.
Speaker 3: Yeah yeah, roll Come, roll Call Supreme Supreme.
Speaker 1: Roll call was.
Speaker 9: Upre Rolland wow, that's a ball start, she said.
Speaker 1: One word dropped it. You do what you want when
Speaker 1: you pop. You're also mad at you? He was?
Speaker 7: He was?
Speaker 1: He was, Yeah, he was. He was a motherfucking yeah.
Speaker 5: Wow you did Blue Steel?
Speaker 4: I just wow.
Speaker 1: Yes. Uh, ladies and gentlemen, welcome to another episode of
Speaker 1: Course Love Supreme, only on Pandora. Uh. This is your
Speaker 1: host Quest Love, and we have Team Supreme. We have
Speaker 1: hy He Gordy as.
Speaker 10: Organizer, and we have Bill DeBarge boss already light skin joke,
Speaker 10: it could be we We we have Fante Robinson over here, yes.
Speaker 1: And uh over here. We have uh, Bill Ruffin would
Speaker 1: be not exactly and the smoothest the moment or the
Speaker 1: morrow we have Steve Gay.
Speaker 5: On on it's so good.
Speaker 4: You heard it here on back?
Speaker 6: Are you?
Speaker 1: Are you okay, Steve? Yeah, okay, yeah.
Speaker 5: If anybody hears me, grown, it's not that you're boring.
Speaker 1: No pain. I was gonna say, you're not trying out
Speaker 1: a new sexy voice. You're just no. No, this is it.
Speaker 1: This is all I got right, that's exactly. Thank you.
Speaker 5: I'm going to turn the micuick. But I'm not talking
Speaker 5: because I'm growing.
Speaker 1: Okay, So just just again, you're not having a sexy moment.
Speaker 5: No, I'm Steve Gay but I'm not being sexy.
Speaker 4: I'm just being.
Speaker 1: Can anytime? Are you talking? I just put this on?
Speaker 5: Can you make thing I've ever sounded with the.
Speaker 1: List and gentlemen, our guest today is a groupping storyteller,
Speaker 1: very intense and stark as a writer, and a director
Speaker 1: is such a ashen I'm sorry director with such action
Speaker 1: classics as a point Break, Strangers Days K nineteen and
Speaker 1: Blue Steel. By the way, I too have never looked
Speaker 1: at Ron Silver the same after that film came out. However,
Speaker 1: in twenty ten, she made history as the first and
Speaker 1: only female to win the Best Director Oscar Challenge Give
Speaker 1: It Up Strong Challenge for her IRAQ Award drama classic
Speaker 1: The hurt Locker and her follow up film, the equally
Speaker 1: gripping twenty twelve zeror Dark thirty also garnered universal claim,
Speaker 1: earning her New York Film's Critics Award for Best Director
Speaker 1: as well, and in twenty seventeen, she follows that up
Speaker 1: with her next film entitled Detroit. But you know, for
Speaker 1: all my people of Detroit, I secretly call the D
Speaker 1: the D in my head. And it's a film that's
Speaker 1: centered around the Algiers Motel incident, one of the many
Speaker 1: stories that I have occurred during the nineteen sixty seven
Speaker 1: riots that really, you know, transform that city into what
Speaker 1: it is today, kind of putting the long history conflict
Speaker 1: relationship between the police and the inner city residents or
Speaker 1: on full display for the world to see. And if
Speaker 1: you think that she lets up on her intensity, think again,
Speaker 1: because it's intense as hell. Ladies and gentlemen, please welcome
Speaker 1: to Quest Love Supreme the one and only Catherine Bigelow.
Speaker 1: Thank you, Wow, this is an honor to have you
Speaker 1: on the show to be here. Normally, you know, we've
Speaker 1: been in our comfort zone with with Grammy winners and
Speaker 1: music icons. But because of the city of Detroit and
Speaker 1: its relationship to music and the sixty seven riots, which
Speaker 1: actually affected the outcome of a lot of the music
Speaker 1: that came out to the city, most notably Motown migrating
Speaker 1: to the West as a result of the end of
Speaker 1: the Detroit And for those that don't know the central
Speaker 1: role that the group the Dramatics plays in this film,
Speaker 1: I thought it was only right to have you on
Speaker 1: the show to speak of it. How are you? How
Speaker 1: are you today?
Speaker 8: I'm fine, I'm fine. I'm happy to be here, happy
Speaker 8: to talk about it.
Speaker 1: So I have to ask, because of okay, your film, magarey,
Speaker 1: I'm so used to saying your discography or your cannon,
Speaker 1: Yes you can, you know you're probably. I mean, when
Speaker 1: when all is said and done and we look at
Speaker 1: your your canon, Uh, the intense level of your storytelling
Speaker 1: can't be denied. What what is your your goal? As
Speaker 1: far as when you make a film, like what's your
Speaker 1: mission statement? At least like when artists make a record,
Speaker 1: there's the mission statement that's used like one or two
Speaker 1: you know, phrase it this is my dadada statement or whatever.
Speaker 1: But for you, is it just to rip the ribbons
Speaker 1: and the bows off of the conventions of what Hollywood
Speaker 1: expects and for you to just come.
Speaker 4: At it raw off?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 11: I think.
Speaker 8: I think up until hurt Locker, it was you know,
Speaker 8: kind of learning the craft. And then with hert Locker,
Speaker 8: I sort of discovered that you could kind of look
Speaker 8: at film like journalism. In other words, it could it
Speaker 8: could be about something you don't already know. And I
Speaker 8: thought that the Iraq wards of really contested engagement that
Speaker 8: was very underreported at the time, and I didn't know
Speaker 8: what an IED or an EOD tech was, and so
Speaker 8: it gave the audience an opportunity to kind of perhaps
Speaker 8: maybe a bit immersive, but to experience what it might
Speaker 8: be like over there, so you could begin to have
Speaker 8: make your own decision about it, you know, should and
Speaker 8: so that was interesting to me. So that was what
Speaker 8: I suppose informed zero Doarc thirty as well, like you know,
Speaker 8: how do how does something that take ten years to
Speaker 8: find this individual who was the most hunted man in
Speaker 8: the world, and so trying to unpack these these I
Speaker 8: don't know these stories and treat them almost like journalism.
Speaker 8: In other words, it's it's kind of both at the
Speaker 8: same time.
Speaker 12: Yeah, it's interesting that you say that, because I particularly
Speaker 12: those two movies. I always thought that they took a
Speaker 12: every journalistic approaching, that they're very kind of just the
Speaker 12: facts kind of way, versus, if you like, with The
Speaker 12: hurt Locker in particular, if you look at someone like
Speaker 12: a Spike Lee, who his movies are very overt, like
Speaker 12: you know how he feels about everything in it. But
Speaker 12: with The hurt Locker in particular, I love the movie,
Speaker 12: but you don't really know your personal feelings on the war,
Speaker 12: Like what were your personal feelings about it?
Speaker 1: And how did you keep that bias out of the film?
Speaker 8: It TWA's hard, but I sort of looked at it
Speaker 8: like kind of threading a needle of being pro soldier
Speaker 8: and anti war. You know, if you could somehow do
Speaker 8: that and also giving an audience the opportunity to have
Speaker 8: enough information to make their own decision. I don't think
Speaker 8: it's up to me to judge, you know, it's I
Speaker 8: feel like my role or responsibility is to present and
Speaker 8: then you know, enable you to come away with enough information.
Speaker 8: But it is very hard It's a good question because
Speaker 8: you know you're constantly wanting to but wait a minute,
Speaker 8: I'm really passionate about you know, I don't want to
Speaker 8: go I don't want to be in this engagement. But anyway,
Speaker 8: so it's it's tricky how.
Speaker 1: Do you tackle I mean, especially with the hurt Locker
Speaker 1: one of one of the factor factors that are on
Speaker 1: full display sort of the the male toxic relationships that
Speaker 1: are that are in that movie, you know, even when
Speaker 1: they're not engaged in battle, just how they deal with
Speaker 1: each other. I mean, how do you like Well, I
Speaker 1: guess Fonte kind of asked, like, how do you even
Speaker 1: present that without presenting your bias? Whereas a producer or
Speaker 1: a studio head could say, well, you know, what are
Speaker 1: you trying to say with your agenda that you know this,
Speaker 1: that this particular demographic is is someonet messed up in
Speaker 1: the head or that sort of thing, Like how do
Speaker 1: I mean, how do you even.
Speaker 8: Well, it's a good question. I mean, the writer was
Speaker 8: embedded with the EUD texts Mark boll And, so he
Speaker 8: came back with a tremendous amount of information and really
Speaker 8: brought it to life on the page. And so that
Speaker 8: helped inform me a lot, and then I went to Kuwait,
Speaker 8: I went to Camp Era Jam. I spent time in
Speaker 8: in you know, in stitute to the extent I can.
Speaker 8: I mean, I couldn't go. I couldn't go the five
Speaker 8: kilometers across the border to Iraq, but I could be.
Speaker 8: I was in the staging areas, so I got a
Speaker 8: sense of what I don't I don't suppose what the
Speaker 8: psychology is of these individuals, and so spent a lot
Speaker 8: of time with the EUD texts and just you know,
Speaker 8: you're you're in a really heightened scenario. I mean, you're
Speaker 8: trying to clear a three hundred meter perimeter around some
Speaker 8: suspicious wires sticking up out of the ground. And as
Speaker 8: you get closer in that three hundred meters walk, you
Speaker 8: have to you know, at the beginning, you're thinking of, well,
Speaker 8: it's you know, it's one hundred and two degrees outside.
Speaker 8: I'm you know, my IQ is dropping because about how
Speaker 8: it is inside the soup. But as you're closer and closer,
Speaker 8: they always talked about there's a twenty five meter perimeter,
Speaker 8: and that's when you start thinking about your family, and
Speaker 8: it's just you know, do I have everything in order is,
Speaker 8: you know, and so it's a very It was interesting
Speaker 8: kind of understanding that degree of commitment and dedication, I guess,
Speaker 8: and yet trying to also understand the methodology of the insurgents.
Speaker 8: I mean, this, this is a different This isn't like
Speaker 8: a ground war like you know where where people wear
Speaker 8: different helmets and it's like, oh, they're the bad guy.
Speaker 8: I mean, you don't, you know, it's a very you
Speaker 8: don't know who's who. And also you have to be
Speaker 8: very quick in terms of disarming this ied before your
Speaker 8: coordinates are called in by a sniper in the areas,
Speaker 8: you've got about maybe three minutes maximum to figure out
Speaker 8: which one you know, how to unpack it. But but
Speaker 8: so it's trying to I don't know if I'm answering
Speaker 8: your question very well, but it was trying to unders stand.
Speaker 8: I guess. What I try to do is is create
Speaker 8: as experiential a situation environment as I can, so I
Speaker 8: keep the camera very alive, keep the cast doing their job,
Speaker 8: not thinking about camera. I did the same thing with
Speaker 8: in the Algiers motel, where you're just you're doing what
Speaker 8: you're you know, you're either against the wall or one
Speaker 8: of the officers, So it's keeping you on task.
Speaker 1: Okay, Well that leads me to my next question. Okay,
Speaker 1: because because I always feel as though whatever camera number
Speaker 1: one is also a character in the film, how do
Speaker 1: you because a lot of the you do heart panning,
Speaker 1: You do a lot of heart panting instead of cuts,
Speaker 1: Whereas I really feel like, okay, I'm a character in
Speaker 1: this and you know I'm inside of this world. How
Speaker 1: do you even coordinate the choreography? I mean, I'm thinking
Speaker 1: of like the founder almost where oh yeah, exactly, Like
Speaker 1: as far as the technical preparation is concerned, how do
Speaker 1: you do it so that you you maintain the the
Speaker 1: the key elements of the scene without him being in
Speaker 1: the way or the actor is being distracted like you know,
Speaker 1: Like well, I mean, first.
Speaker 8: Of all, you've got this story, this narrative beginning, and
Speaker 8: that's somewhat linear. That's all that's linear. Everything else is
Speaker 8: in motion. The act that cast is in motion, the
Speaker 8: cameras are in motion. I light the entire area so
Speaker 8: everything is live. And then I try to I try
Speaker 8: to work in in situ as long as possible. In
Speaker 8: other words, like you could do eight pages if you
Speaker 8: want it to. In other words, it's very I try
Speaker 8: to keep it as continuous as possible, but but I
Speaker 8: keep I keep it very alive. And then eventually, usually
Speaker 8: just when the first couple of days it cast just
Speaker 8: the disappears for them and they're just they're kind of
Speaker 8: on point. They're doing what they are who they are.
Speaker 8: Like in terms of Jeremy Renner and Hurt Locker, he
Speaker 8: was just walking down that three hundred meter perimeter, it
Speaker 8: didn't matter, and the cameras were constantly switching up take
Speaker 8: after takeout, four cameras working simultaneously, and you just I mean,
Speaker 8: I think in a way it's kind of freeing. He
Speaker 8: had never worked like that before, and and I think
Speaker 8: it's kind of freeing. There's no blocking, there's no blocking
Speaker 8: for camera, there's no there's no marks, there's no rehearsals.
Speaker 1: No practice, no nothing, no. So are you are you
Speaker 1: coordinating like a defensive coordinator? Because even then, like when
Speaker 1: there are certain scenes where they'll there'll be a certain
Speaker 1: shot and then suddenly on cue the camera will pan in,
Speaker 1: like and I'm always wondering, like, are you in someone's headphones?
Speaker 8: Like Okay, I wish I did, Like.
Speaker 1: So they just do it on instinct and just you
Speaker 1: trust them enough to know when to blur up a
Speaker 1: shot and then focused and.
Speaker 8: I need that technology. But no, Barry Ackroyd is he's
Speaker 8: a genius. He's a cinematographer and both hurt Locker and
Speaker 8: Zerrator and her Locker and Detroit right, and and he's
Speaker 8: so uncanny, so intuitive, I mean he and so those
Speaker 8: are you know, he'll snap zoom, like he just knows
Speaker 8: what you want. He just knows. Yeah, we talk it
Speaker 8: through and then and then he feels it. In fact,
Speaker 8: he doesn't want to see a rehearsal. He wants to
Speaker 8: find it in that first take and and he talks
Speaker 8: about that. I mean, that's that's very important for him.
Speaker 1: So you're like a jazz music.
Speaker 8: I was just gonna say, it's like a jazz jazz
Speaker 8: because it can't be rehearsed or mechanical. Then it then
Speaker 8: it loses, it loses something.
Speaker 1: Are you are you ever over the editor's shoulder or
Speaker 1: do you just turn your tapes and you just trust
Speaker 1: that they know what you want? Like, at what point
Speaker 1: do you let your baby go and trust that they
Speaker 1: will cut what was in your head at the time
Speaker 1: when you're thinking of the shot and a certain scene.
Speaker 8: Well, I also have I have the just in my opinion,
Speaker 8: the world's greatest editor, Billy Goldenberg, who did Sero Dark
Speaker 8: in Detroit. And what's this style of shooting? There's no
Speaker 8: masters medium's close ups. It doesn't work like that. You're
Speaker 8: just everything is constantly in motion, like the actor may
Speaker 8: walk around the humby and then suddenly he is in
Speaker 8: a close up. For in other words, it's it's very fluid.
Speaker 8: So Billy takes this, which in a way is very chaotic,
Speaker 8: can really seem very chaotic, but he creates the linearity
Speaker 8: and I trust him completely and I am there. But
Speaker 8: so you are there, I'm there.
Speaker 1: I've heard well, I mean not that I know that
Speaker 1: much about filmmaking, but I do know that like in
Speaker 1: the case of Martin and Filma, he says that the
Speaker 1: second he's done a film scores, just give Schoolmacher his
Speaker 1: films and it's like, it's on you. You know what
Speaker 1: I like, and I'll come back. Like there's always an
Speaker 1: issue of micromanaging of that sort of thing, like not
Speaker 1: letting go. And I didn't know if it was an
Speaker 1: unwritten rule that once a director finishes shooting, then you
Speaker 1: just give it to the editor and trust that they
Speaker 1: know what they're doing.
Speaker 8: Well, I trust completely and I love him to, you know,
Speaker 8: find a certain autonomy. But I think he would agree.
Speaker 8: Hopefully I'm speaking for him, but I think it's a
Speaker 8: real collaboration with the crew, with the cast, with everybody.
Speaker 8: It's a real it's a real collaborative medium, and I
Speaker 8: think it's at its best when it's collaborative.
Speaker 11: Can I ask you?
Speaker 7: It seems like and I might be assuming, but it
Speaker 7: feels like hurt Locker was the beginning of one hundred
Speaker 7: percent passion project for you, like a toe chapter because
Speaker 7: hurt Locker, of course an Nzel Dark thirty Detroit. I
Speaker 7: wanted to know, is that the case or what does
Speaker 7: the different? What happened in between to number one to
Speaker 7: get to the point where you could do this? Are
Speaker 7: these are one hundred percent passion projects? And yeah, what
Speaker 7: was the transition to that point? Because of course you
Speaker 7: did so many movies and projects before that, but these
Speaker 7: last three seem like, yeah, and this is your heart.
Speaker 1: And then you did My Zone.
Speaker 8: Well, I feel like the ore the films before them,
Speaker 8: and and of course you know you're kind of I
Speaker 8: don't know you can't have favorites, you know. But but
Speaker 8: I feel like they prepared me for those. And I
Speaker 8: couldn't have done hurt Locker or Zero Dark or Detroit
Speaker 8: if I hadn't done those. And one thing that was
Speaker 8: a real departure was working with emerging talent or you know,
Speaker 8: mainly unknown talent. And and I kind of made that, uh.
Speaker 8: In other words, if you wanted to finance or produce
Speaker 8: the hurt Locker, you had to work or that was
Speaker 8: a prerogative creative control. And let me tell you that
Speaker 8: winnowed out a lot of options out there, you know.
Speaker 8: And and and then there was this one gentleman who
Speaker 8: took the leap and and for very little relatively for
Speaker 8: a movie like that, small amount of money, And I
Speaker 8: was able to cast exactly who I want, cut it exactly,
Speaker 8: cut it the way I shoot it, the way I
Speaker 8: wanted to cut it, the way I want it done, and.
Speaker 11: And so and this is the first time that you
Speaker 11: were able to do that in your whole career.
Speaker 1: Yeah, how hard is it to find a producer that's
Speaker 1: not for lessons and verse? Is a pain in the
Speaker 1: ass because you know, I, at least in my experiences
Speaker 1: of witnessing. Usually the good cop is the director and
Speaker 1: the bad cop is the producer, you know, and they
Speaker 1: have to stay on the side. Let you know, the
Speaker 1: budget that's running over and this this sort of thing.
Speaker 1: I mean, how how easy is it to find or
Speaker 1: how hard is it to find one that gives you
Speaker 1: complete autonomy Because there were years before I think came
Speaker 1: nineteen came out, uh six years before seven seven, not
Speaker 1: knowing what the budget for the hurt Locker was. But
Speaker 1: I can imagine that however, you pitched it obviously for
Speaker 1: that end, for zero dark thirty, that it was pricey
Speaker 1: and and you know, of course we're not mentioned the
Speaker 1: elephant in the room about you know, are women given
Speaker 1: the same amount of trust behind the wheel as a
Speaker 1: mail director. We all know that answer is no. So
Speaker 1: how did you how did you break how did you
Speaker 1: break through to the other side to even this is
Speaker 1: a lottery.
Speaker 8: Ticket, it's a lottery ticket. Well, you know, just you
Speaker 8: have to be very tenacious and well, the first budget
Speaker 8: for hurt Lucker was thirty million, and I ended up
Speaker 8: making it for ten.
Speaker 1: So that happened. So don't.
Speaker 8: Budget from thirty to well, that's I don't act and
Speaker 8: didn't lose any set pieces either, so so that was
Speaker 8: a little tricky but or a little challenging. But the
Speaker 8: key there was and what I realized was that the
Speaker 8: budget and your creative control are in direct proportion to
Speaker 8: one another.
Speaker 3: So that was for that.
Speaker 8: So the lower the budget, more creative control you have
Speaker 8: to you were going to sacrifice and compromise creative control
Speaker 8: if you want more money. So that's just it's a
Speaker 8: very simple calculus. I kind of wrapped my head around
Speaker 8: that and went forward with it, and and obviously with
Speaker 8: hurt Locker that was that turned out well. And Zero
Speaker 8: Dark was a little bit more money, but not I mean,
Speaker 8: it wasn't outrage it was but I would be considered
Speaker 8: a kind of fairly robust budget, but nothing in terms
Speaker 8: of I don't know, one of the more normal big
Speaker 8: movies today.
Speaker 1: Well okay, because I know that Zero Dark is also
Speaker 1: intento on the drama and the dialogue that's just as
Speaker 1: rich as an action scene or that sort of thing. Now,
Speaker 1: I'm trying to imagine if you were given complete autonomy
Speaker 1: to do, you know, say, if you were given a
Speaker 1: seventy million dollar budget, or you know, some films of
Speaker 1: this nature get one hundred and fifty million dollar budget,
Speaker 1: Like what more could you done? Like is there a
Speaker 1: sacrifice scene that we didn't know about? Then? Like, okay,
Speaker 1: well we only got ten millions, so we'll just use
Speaker 1: this firecracker.
Speaker 8: I'll just blow up this town.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 8: That's another thing I think, you know, I do when
Speaker 8: I can. I work in elephant conservation or some kind
Speaker 8: of philanthropy. And I think, you know, the bigger the budgets,
Speaker 8: I think, wow, I should be using this money for that,
Speaker 8: you know, saving these park rangers in Garamba and the
Speaker 8: d r C or something like that. But so, but
Speaker 8: but finding a producer that supports you and trusts you,
Speaker 8: I mean, that's it's a process. It's a I mean,
Speaker 8: I also produce. But in other words, I'm a producer
Speaker 8: and director, so I see cost I'm a student and creative.
Speaker 8: But but you know, I know, you know, I know,
Speaker 8: I know who wins in my in my own personal right.
Speaker 8: But but uh yeah, you just you know, but I
Speaker 8: think working with as much trust, integrity and respect as
Speaker 8: you possibly can, and then I mean with everybody, crew, casts, producers,
Speaker 8: et cetera. And then you know, it's usually a you.
Speaker 8: I mean, that's sort of what I learned prior to
Speaker 8: the hurt Locker and then of course tried to execute
Speaker 8: it from that point on.
Speaker 1: So you're you're proven, You're you're you're you're reaffirming what
Speaker 1: I've always thought about musicians, which is whenever they have
Speaker 1: limited resources and limited budgets, they turn out their most
Speaker 1: creative work. And whenever they're just given the entire world,
Speaker 1: that's usually the uh, that's the jumping the shark moment
Speaker 1: for a lot of our our musicians.
Speaker 8: Well, there's a great quote by Entre Gate. I said,
Speaker 8: artist born of restraint and dies of freedom.
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's very true, is it? And that's quest love suprevium,
Speaker 1: Thank you very much.
Speaker 5: I have a question Steve, and then I really want
Speaker 5: to hear about Detroit after.
Speaker 1: Well, we're going to get to Detroit. I kind of
Speaker 1: wanted I get.
Speaker 5: My question is because you mentioned the journalistic nature of
Speaker 5: making these movies, So do you have any kind of
Speaker 5: background in journalism now?
Speaker 8: But Mark, who wrote all three of them, comes from
Speaker 8: investigative journalism, and so that allowed me to kind of
Speaker 8: open up open up that idea of being a you know,
Speaker 8: putting the viewer in an active relationship with the screen
Speaker 8: as opposed to passive. You know that can't consequently again,
Speaker 8: the camera's very active, but in other words, sort of
Speaker 8: inviting the viewer to be a fly in the wall
Speaker 8: in what you're experiencing.
Speaker 1: I'll change you, Lad, you could be Stubbs, Steve Stubbs.
Speaker 5: So I was watching the CNN thing the nineties and
Speaker 5: I saw your name as a director on what was
Speaker 5: it a long time ago.
Speaker 1: Point? It was a show.
Speaker 7: It was.
Speaker 11: Stet Yeah, Baltimore. Yeah, yeah, that.
Speaker 5: Was somewhat journalistic type thing too.
Speaker 8: Well, well, I started that was sort of where I
Speaker 8: began to get confident enough to move, you know, to
Speaker 8: be I don't know, create a very I suppose sort
Speaker 8: of active and fluid cinematic environment. And then I don't know,
Speaker 8: you just kind of get your chops. I mean, it's
Speaker 8: got to be like what all of you do? Wait,
Speaker 8: what was your first?
Speaker 7: What was your first gig in the film industry? Because Catherine,
Speaker 7: you have like actors, producer, writer, director, all these things.
Speaker 11: What was your first?
Speaker 8: Yeah, I'm gonna add some more, you should do whatever. Well,
Speaker 8: I started out as a painter, and I was an
Speaker 8: artist and or thought of myself as an artist and
Speaker 8: moved to New York. I was given this I don't
Speaker 8: know this, I guess internship with a Whitney Independent study program.
Speaker 8: They gave you a studio. I was living in a
Speaker 8: bank vault and on the corner of Down and Read
Speaker 8: and Chambers and many many years ago, no no very
Speaker 8: pre gentrified off track betting building. And I was downstairs
Speaker 8: in this bank fault and Susan Sontag was one of
Speaker 8: my advisors. She'd come down and I'd put the work
Speaker 8: up on the wall of these stainless and the door.
Speaker 8: I mean, I had nowhere to stay. I had a
Speaker 8: sleeping bag in the bank fault and i'd sleep in
Speaker 8: there and people be gunshots above, and I was like, okay,
Speaker 8: I'm safe down here. As long as the door doesn't shut.
Speaker 8: The door shots, nobody's going to find me. But but
Speaker 8: so she'd I would do these paintings. And then I
Speaker 8: realized that art and I love it. Believe me, I still,
Speaker 8: you know, I kind of no, no, no, no, no, no,
Speaker 8: I mean I still look.
Speaker 7: At it and.
Speaker 8: No, no, it can't be a hobby. I wish it could.
Speaker 8: But anyway, so no, it's not relaxing. But but I
Speaker 8: realized there's something you know, kind of I don't know
Speaker 8: how to put it, but maybe kind of rarefied. You
Speaker 8: look at this white on white canvas, which is this
Speaker 8: Russian guy, Casmir Malevich, who I love. But but the
Speaker 8: point is it, it's, you know, requires or asks of
Speaker 8: you a little bit of information to kind of appreciate
Speaker 8: it and think this is extraordinary and breakthrough Ormonnai's to
Speaker 8: Haystacks or whatever. And so I then I started moving
Speaker 8: into film because I thought it crosses all class cultural lines,
Speaker 8: like everybody can ex everybody can go to the movies,
Speaker 8: and so how do you make how do you work
Speaker 8: in a populist medium with an emphasis on content? And
Speaker 8: so that's where it started. I did this piece Setup,
Speaker 8: and then I ended up doing a graduate degree at
Speaker 8: column being I was getting too long of an answer,
Speaker 8: and I did this movie called Setup Movie. It was
Speaker 8: a short, it was twenty minutes, and it was very violent.
Speaker 8: I know there's a thematically, a real breakthrough, and but
Speaker 8: what I was interesting to me was why we are
Speaker 8: attracted to extreme situations? And and Susan Sontag wrote that
Speaker 8: book on photography, and she talked about identifying with the
Speaker 8: other or the id you know and your years, so
Speaker 8: anyway I have. It's basically a piece that tries to
Speaker 8: unpack our attraction to cinematic violence. And it's only twenty
Speaker 8: minutes long, sort of non narrative, and then that kind
Speaker 8: of propelled me into the motorcycle movie I did with
Speaker 8: Willem Dafoe called The Loveless.
Speaker 11: William dug he must be special to work with. Oh,
Speaker 11: I mean, oh, he's fabulous.
Speaker 8: In fact, he was doing you know, he used to
Speaker 8: be with the Booster Group, and that was back in
Speaker 8: the day when you can just go to a performance
Speaker 8: and then you go up afterward and you say, hey,
Speaker 8: do you want to be in a movie? I mean,
Speaker 8: I had just you know, five pennies to make this
Speaker 8: film and he's like sure. I said, can you ride
Speaker 8: a motorcycle? He said, yes, Well I learned. I learned.
Speaker 8: You know, it's good to kind of like research research question,
Speaker 8: especially when we ended up No, he didn't fall, He
Speaker 8: just ended up going through a hedge and up along
Speaker 8: and into in the front door. We had these big
Speaker 8: electric glides. Back in the day, there was ghost motorcycles
Speaker 8: out on Long Island. I don't know if any of
Speaker 8: you and if you were old enough. No, and they
Speaker 8: had they had real they had vintage motorcycles. And this
Speaker 8: was a film that took place in nineteen fifty nine,
Speaker 8: and so I wanted all the motorcycles to be real,
Speaker 8: and so they're heavy, and I mean I didn't I
Speaker 8: can't drive one. But so that was how the switch happened,
Speaker 8: and then I sort of then suddenly I was making film.
Speaker 1: There's what is your attraction to? I mean, I don't
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to use violence, as you
Speaker 1: know as the four letter word, but there's definitely that's
Speaker 1: an element that's almost a common denominator in each film.
Speaker 1: Like I've became aware of you through Blue Steel, as
Speaker 1: we mentioned at the top of the show.
Speaker 4: But what is.
Speaker 1: What is it that you want to tell the world
Speaker 1: or show the world through all of your films that
Speaker 1: you you you direct or you write, like what is
Speaker 1: your Because you wrote Blue Steel? Correct, you wrote in directly,
Speaker 1: So what what is that? What is why is that
Speaker 1: you or way to grip our collars or to get
Speaker 1: our attention? Do you use it in a very unusual
Speaker 1: You don't. It's not gratuitious as in like, hey, it's
Speaker 1: gratu but it's it's almost psychological where you you go
Speaker 1: deep into all these characters and you show this dark
Speaker 1: place in their soul, which makes me wonder about you,
Speaker 1: what's the dark place in your soul?
Speaker 8: Well, we could turn this into a therapy, right, I know.
Speaker 8: And I co wrote that with Eric red So and
Speaker 8: we co wrote Near Dark together too, But I think
Speaker 8: of well, I don't. I suppose it's it goes kind
Speaker 8: of go back, goes back to the art days, where
Speaker 8: the purpose of art is to agitate for change. And
Speaker 8: so I think a film is very kinetic. It's a
Speaker 8: very kinetic medium, and and I sort of enjoy the
Speaker 8: mechanics of that kind of visceral identification with a story
Speaker 8: on the screen. But it has to have content, It
Speaker 8: has to have some purpose. There has to be some
Speaker 8: you know, the same meaning as to self aggrandizing, I
Speaker 8: don't mean it that way, but to have you know,
Speaker 8: it has to have some substance. And I think what's
Speaker 8: so great about film is it allows you and music
Speaker 8: to be a part of something so much bigger than yourself.
Speaker 8: And you know, maybe ever so slightly, you can perhaps
Speaker 8: make a difference.
Speaker 12: I want to ask you about when you cast your
Speaker 12: films and the training that you put your actors through.
Speaker 12: Obviously for the hurt Locker there was you know, it
Speaker 12: had to be some kind of military training or what
Speaker 12: was the regimen for that? And also for Detroit, because
Speaker 12: the guys are playing a singing group, what did you
Speaker 12: have them do to so that it looks real camera?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 8: Thank you?
Speaker 1: Any story camp Ord? Uh?
Speaker 8: Yeah, there was Motown camp. No we didn't, oh love
Speaker 8: no no no no. Well, in terms of hurt Locker, yeah,
Speaker 8: they had. They went through a lot of military training,
Speaker 8: I mean, and same with Sarah Dark. I had the
Speaker 8: benefit of in the case of hurt Locker, there was
Speaker 8: some Delta Delta Force individuals that were my tech advisors
Speaker 8: and se s and then with zero Dark Navy Steel
Speaker 8: Tech advisors and taught them how to you know, how
Speaker 8: to move and how you know. The most important thing
Speaker 8: I took away from that was don't run. Wait, don't
Speaker 8: run to your death. You know how it's very methodical
Speaker 8: how these people move. It's really interesting. Like you'll be
Speaker 8: coming around a corner and you don't race around it.
Speaker 8: You move very slowly and incessantly. It's like they talk
Speaker 8: about it, like the trainers would talk about it like water,
Speaker 8: you know, the way water moves. It's cadence, doesn't change.
Speaker 8: It's just very consistent. It has nothing to do with motown.
Speaker 8: But well, I'm I'm somebody, I think who's musically challenged.
Speaker 8: In fact, I was. I think, I don't know how
Speaker 8: old I was. I did a piano recital at like
Speaker 8: one and a half. I don't know, I was very young,
Speaker 8: and the teacher hit my hand with the realer I
Speaker 8: was doing something wrong, and so I told my parents,
Speaker 8: I'll never never do it, never doing that again. So
Speaker 8: I started painting. But anyway, so I was extremely lucky
Speaker 8: because I'm I'm not conversant in that world and finding
Speaker 8: these actors, and I did a lot of improv. I
Speaker 8: did never work from the script. I work basically in improv.
Speaker 8: Created a situation like okay, you're up against the while
Speaker 8: this guy's going to come in, and I needed to
Speaker 8: see how they would react in a situation, and then
Speaker 8: how they would work together, as you know, musically, and
Speaker 8: I think, I you know, I think they just blended.
Speaker 8: I don't know, there was just a natural blend and
Speaker 8: they kind of and then I don't know, they got
Speaker 8: together a lot during the shoot, and and prior in
Speaker 8: the casting process, they would get together and really created
Speaker 8: a sense of history, and that carried over into the
Speaker 8: you know, onto the scene when you do it, do you.
Speaker 12: Have someone in mind, like when you looking at the story,
Speaker 12: do you have someone in mind saying, Hey, I think
Speaker 12: this actor or this actress would be good for this
Speaker 12: role or is that something that totally you let the casting.
Speaker 8: No, Well, I had an amazing casting director, Vicky Thomas,
Speaker 8: but I really wanted actors who, in a way didn't
Speaker 8: have any provenance because that tele telegraphs to an audience,
Speaker 8: even if it's consciously or subconsciously, Oh that person, you know,
Speaker 8: you can't die, he's too famous, right, and so immediately
Speaker 8: the game is over. You know, there's no tension. So
Speaker 8: for that reason and many and and also just I
Speaker 8: love the idea of kind of these discoveries. And these
Speaker 8: young African American men were just I mean, they were
Speaker 8: so giving and so I don't know, they're so talented.
Speaker 8: I mean, it was an embarrassment of riches. It was very,
Speaker 8: very very hard to cast because for any one part
Speaker 8: there were quite a few options.
Speaker 1: Well, you did a great job, because I didn't even
Speaker 1: recognize uh John Krasinski, Oh yeah, five minutes. I was like,
Speaker 1: oh him, and I was waiting for the office.
Speaker 7: And then the young black actors that you picked are
Speaker 7: like right now, the up and coming you. I mean,
Speaker 7: just off a name you got like you got Ralph
Speaker 7: treads Van, you know.
Speaker 1: Like in the characters.
Speaker 7: But I mean that they play but and it's dope
Speaker 7: to I was. I was thinking, I said, you know,
Speaker 7: they're used to being in these dope ensemble class cast
Speaker 7: even John Boyega, I don't know if I say his
Speaker 7: name Rye perfect Star Wars ensemble cast. So it kind
Speaker 7: of worked dope for you because they are used to
Speaker 7: making it work for one grid mission, right.
Speaker 8: Yeah, I mean they work. Yeah, they're well first at
Speaker 8: working as you know, as a group and as a
Speaker 8: kind of an organic body that you know. I mean,
Speaker 8: I was just so lucky in Altree Smith and Hayden
Speaker 8: and Malcolm and and little Butler.
Speaker 7: I'm glad I never knew his name, but I've been
Speaker 7: watching him since he was a child actor.
Speaker 11: He's amazing.
Speaker 1: He's scary. He is even if I see him now
Speaker 1: like he's in he's he's on the Goldbergs, right.
Speaker 11: Is he not on the I don't know if he's
Speaker 11: on their now. He was in the Revenant, he was
Speaker 11: in the Chronicles of Narnia.
Speaker 1: Yeah right, okay, I know that, but yeah he's Jesus Christ.
Speaker 11: Can get it's an eyebrow thing.
Speaker 1: Even if you mentioned it now, I'm like, all right,
Speaker 1: change this ubject. I don't know how the feel when
Speaker 1: I see him come on my show and play. I
Speaker 1: want to know what is uh your personal creative process, uh,
Speaker 1: from going project to project now? I mean the time
Speaker 1: distance between zero Dark thirty and the hurt Locker was
Speaker 1: two years almost now. I would imagine usually for anyone
Speaker 1: else in any other medium, uh, when someone reaches that level,
Speaker 1: that summer, that pinnacle of a career and you, of
Speaker 1: course making history as the first female director to get
Speaker 1: an Oscar, not usually for anyone else that would be like, okay, well,
Speaker 1: a period of decompression and you take five years off
Speaker 1: to think you're your next move. Like let's take limit
Speaker 1: Manuel Miranda for example, Like, I'll be shocked if he
Speaker 1: comes up with a follow up to Hamilton in the
Speaker 1: next five years. Like, I'll be shocked. I'm doing Jefferson
Speaker 1: right right, But yeah, you know you immediately I mean,
Speaker 1: for me, that's that's almost lightning fast of how you
Speaker 1: just went on to the next project like it was nothing.
Speaker 1: You didn't let it freeze you up or anything. But
Speaker 1: I want to know, you know, do you have a
Speaker 1: kind of a decompression resting period that lets you back
Speaker 1: at zero so that you can go to the next product?
Speaker 1: And then what's your research into Like as far as
Speaker 1: you deciding Okay, this is what I want to do next,
Speaker 1: and then you know, making sure that you and your
Speaker 1: screenwriter are on point with each other, and then mapping
Speaker 1: out the direction and all the things that go with
Speaker 1: creating a film, like what is your creative process and
Speaker 1: in relationship, especially with Detroit, the research you had to
Speaker 1: do and the books you had to read and all
Speaker 1: those things.
Speaker 8: Yeah, the research on Detroit was massive. What happened was
Speaker 8: Mark came to me with this story. And this was
Speaker 8: early twenty fifteen and right about the time of the
Speaker 8: Michael Brown acquittal, and I it was, you know, kind
Speaker 8: of obviously a politically emotionally charged time. And he told
Speaker 8: me this story and I said, you know, this is
Speaker 8: a story that needs to get out there. You know,
Speaker 8: it's very important in my opinion, and and you know,
Speaker 8: maybe in some small way it can contribute to a
Speaker 8: conversation on a bigger scale. And then I started doing
Speaker 8: homework on it and and and in fact, I sent
Speaker 8: down I sat down with Congressman Conyers, who's in the movie,
Speaker 8: but in Detroit, and he kind of looked at me
Speaker 8: and said, okay, what are you What are you doing?
Speaker 8: You know what kind of movie you're doing in Detroit?
Speaker 8: Said well, I'm doing a story about the Algiers Motel.
Speaker 8: And he said, that's an execution. And and so I
Speaker 8: realized that there's you know, there's a lot of obviously
Speaker 8: a lot of history, even though it's fifty years ago.
Speaker 8: And then the you know what happened with Michael Brown
Speaker 8: and on and on and this time and this time
Speaker 8: it felt very timely, and it felt like this might be,
Speaker 8: you know, I don't know, worth be incredibly moving to
Speaker 8: to dig into. And at the more research I did,
Speaker 8: the more homework we did, and trying to make it
Speaker 8: as real and authentic as possible.
Speaker 7: And and.
Speaker 8: It was very emotional piece. It was very emotionally charged
Speaker 8: shooting it as well.
Speaker 11: Do you know, did you have any reservations about doing this?
Speaker 7: Because I was reading the article that doctor Dyson wrote
Speaker 7: on you, and I remember the part where he one
Speaker 7: of the people in Detroit, because you guys are walking
Speaker 7: around Detroit, and he says, like, what is this is?
Speaker 10: This?
Speaker 7: Is this white woman gonna know about us and this
Speaker 7: story that we have? Like, did you personally have to
Speaker 7: have a moment and say, can I do this?
Speaker 11: Should I do this?
Speaker 8: Absolutely? I mean I thought, and I think I still think.
Speaker 8: You know, am I the perfect person to make this movie?
Speaker 8: Absolutely not. On the other hand, you know, I have
Speaker 8: this opportunity. I can get this. You know, I can't
Speaker 8: get this story out there, and and you know, take
Speaker 8: advantage of that in the hope that again it maybe
Speaker 8: leads to a dialogue or more stories like this coming out.
Speaker 1: And so.
Speaker 8: That was that was the impetus behind.
Speaker 12: It, when you say you're not the perfect person and
Speaker 12: if not you, then who, like who would if you
Speaker 12: were producing Detroit?
Speaker 1: Who would you get to direct it? Yeah?
Speaker 8: I mean she'd be amazing exactly so, but you know,
Speaker 8: it kind of washed up on my beach and so
Speaker 8: sort of like, all right, do I I don't know?
Speaker 8: You know, that was that took a There was a
Speaker 8: moment there when I was trying to kind of grapple
Speaker 8: with that.
Speaker 1: And it's weird because I even when I saw the
Speaker 1: screening of it, I did not know that the story
Speaker 1: even happened. And you know, I'd like to think that
Speaker 1: anything musically related, like I'm on top of I mean,
Speaker 1: I knew of Riots being in Detroit, and I knew
Speaker 1: I've heard several interviews of why Motown had left. You know,
Speaker 1: I simply thought it was because, Okay, well, Dinah Ross
Speaker 1: wanted to meet movies and so let's go out there.
Speaker 1: I had no idea that you know, Detroit was and
Speaker 1: that intense of a disarray, and so the first thing
Speaker 1: I thought was like, well, why wasn't this I think
Speaker 1: Bill was the first person I called about this, and
Speaker 1: he looked at up and it's like, yo, yeah, it
Speaker 1: was real, And you know, he looked at he researched
Speaker 1: it online, like I couldn't believe that, because the thing is,
Speaker 1: it's not because you didn't do a biopic about the dramatics.
Speaker 1: More or less, the dramatics just happened to be at
Speaker 1: the wrong place at the wrong time, and you captured it.
Speaker 1: And even then I was like, wow, Like the four
Speaker 1: or five times that I've seen the Dramatics. I mean,
Speaker 1: that would be like if I met Rodney King and
Speaker 1: he never told me about April, you know what I mean? Right?
Speaker 4: But anyway, Yeah, and.
Speaker 1: I kept thinking, like on the way home, I was like,
Speaker 1: wait a minute, man, I've been at least in the
Speaker 1: four or five times I've been in the presence of
Speaker 1: the Dramatics in my career, like, it's at least been
Speaker 1: accumulated three to four hours. I'm like, man, they didn't
Speaker 1: mentioned this once, like.
Speaker 11: I maybe it wasn't the worst thing that happened to them.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the funny thing. Yeah, here's the funny thing.
Speaker 1: Because I've talked about violent situations that they've been in
Speaker 1: in the Snoop's second source cover when his solo album
Speaker 1: comes out in nineteen ninety three, and Dreamhampton's sort of
Speaker 1: trailing them during the making of Doggie Style, there was
Speaker 1: maybe an exchange of gunfire between the van that the
Speaker 1: Dramatics were in and maybe the family of that Remember
Speaker 1: Snoop had an incident. Yeah, Philip, I don't want to
Speaker 1: just reduce him to Yeah, how did you remember that?
Speaker 4: Well?
Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean the article came out twenty five years ago.
Speaker 1: But I remember the Dramatics being in that situation. And
Speaker 1: then when Slim Village told me a story uh sort
Speaker 1: of similar that, it was like a minor fender bender,
Speaker 1: Like they were with some members of the Dramatics and
Speaker 1: DJ Dees told me like, you know, like they were
Speaker 1: about to get into a violent situation. I was thinking, like, man,
Speaker 1: the Dramatics are the most unlucky group on earth.
Speaker 5: And yeah, they're just like the Drama.
Speaker 1: There. Yeah, but and talking to them about those situations, yeah, man,
Speaker 1: well it was intense that day. But like they never said.
Speaker 9: To me, they just.
Speaker 1: I just That's the first thing. I was like, why
Speaker 1: did they not tell me about nineteen sixty seven? Like
Speaker 1: why did I not know this even in the film.
Speaker 1: I kept asking Half the time. I was like I
Speaker 1: am dbing, like wait a minute, is this Dramatics Dramatics that? Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 1: the Dramatics. I know what she sees what you And
Speaker 1: then when they started singing it, then whoever is running
Speaker 1: the I don't know if you told them not to
Speaker 1: tell me or whatever, that you just wanted me to
Speaker 1: see it raw and that sort of thing. So I
Speaker 1: went back to him, I'm like, yo, is this story real?
Speaker 1: Or and he said just watch it, you know, So
Speaker 1: half the time I was just like trying to follow effects, and.
Speaker 5: Yeah, it's just a long story. They're probably so sick
Speaker 5: of talent. It's like, probably takes two hours to tell
Speaker 5: the story.
Speaker 1: Yeah, of a movie rather, you know. And I don't
Speaker 1: want to get into spoilers, so I'm trying to figure
Speaker 1: out a way to talk about the film without getting
Speaker 1: into specifics so as to not ruin it for the listener.
Speaker 1: But I mean, I will say that in this film
Speaker 1: is like what two hours and twenty yeah, yeah, two
Speaker 1: hours and twenty minutes. I mean you spend a great
Speaker 1: deal in the center of the film, thirty five to
Speaker 1: forty minutes.
Speaker 8: Oh, probably a little bit more maybe, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, fifty minutes, almost an hour on this one. It's
Speaker 1: it's almost like it turns into a play because you're
Speaker 1: literally in this room during the torture scene whatever you
Speaker 1: want to the interrogation, torture, death game scene for an
Speaker 1: hour with just one camera and.
Speaker 11: And how many people in that room.
Speaker 8: In the hallway, Yeah, in the hallway there were about.
Speaker 1: Nine and and nine and four cops dependent on the
Speaker 1: army guys, and.
Speaker 8: Exactly like three three Detroit police and one National Guard.
Speaker 1: It's us. It's this almost the movie stops and then
Speaker 1: it goes into meta mood inside of itself and then
Speaker 1: starts all over again with this torture scene.
Speaker 11: And uh, sounds like another oscar for Catherine.
Speaker 1: I just and it's weird because even when you and
Speaker 1: I were talking, because I mean, it's no secret, like
Speaker 1: you know, the roots worked on the song at the end.
Speaker 1: I mean, there is two ways to go with the
Speaker 1: direction of that song because with films that intense, and
Speaker 1: when it's time for the credits, you need you need
Speaker 1: a moment to breathe the process what you just saw.
Speaker 7: That's what Catherine was saying about the song earlier, right
Speaker 7: you were breaking down.
Speaker 8: Is not just a song, yeah, I mean it also
Speaker 8: there's you know, it's so emotional that song. I think
Speaker 8: it's phenomenal, and it also shifts time periods, you know,
Speaker 8: takes you from the sixties to now back to the sixties,
Speaker 8: and I think it's a good release for the kind
Speaker 8: of anger that that one might feel.
Speaker 1: We wrote the song it ain't fair, and I wanted
Speaker 1: to give the listener release at the end, but I
Speaker 1: also remembered that I was mad as fuck at just
Speaker 1: angry as shit, and I want it to convey all
Speaker 1: those things in that song, the.
Speaker 11: Movie or just period, you know what I I felt.
Speaker 1: I had a long conversation, uh with the and seeing
Speaker 1: the film twice. Uh, I kind of had a post
Speaker 1: viewing conversation, uh with the people I was with and
Speaker 1: kind of here on both sides because you know, it's
Speaker 1: with white and black people and it's weird. The white
Speaker 1: people that saw the film with me were like, Okay,
Speaker 1: you know, I have to admit that it took this
Speaker 1: film for me to really truly understand black lives matter.
Speaker 11: Jesus, and this.
Speaker 1: Person is a liberal Jesus but the worst. Sorry, but
Speaker 1: that's it's this person's a liberal. But it's it's sort
Speaker 1: of like, well, I hear what you're saying, but it's
Speaker 1: almost as if this film really allows you. Yeah, this
Speaker 1: film really allows you to put yourself in that person's shoes,
Speaker 1: because this is one thing to just watch the news
Speaker 1: thing and there's always the thing in the back of
Speaker 1: your mind like okay, uh the brother, the brother in Minnesota, Uh,
Speaker 1: where you know I still you know liberals that might say, okay, okay,
Speaker 1: what really happened, Okay, did you you right exactly on
Speaker 1: the facts that comings means that you're giving the benefit
Speaker 1: of the doubt, that that we never fucking get right.
Speaker 1: And it was like, as we were watching the film,
Speaker 1: I kept watching the energy of the room and the
Speaker 1: white side was sort of like, what's going on here?
Speaker 1: This is what we've been trying to tell you.
Speaker 11: And awakening.
Speaker 1: I mean, it's it's it's real, and it's you know.
Speaker 1: I kind of explained to them that yeah, like none
Speaker 1: of us, none of us. And the thing that it
Speaker 1: hit home to me was that again and with with
Speaker 1: the dramatics and what they went through. Not trying to
Speaker 1: spoil it, but I was even like, wow, like how
Speaker 1: do you even go on continue as a group or
Speaker 1: function with your life after this?
Speaker 11: What was the album they made after?
Speaker 5: What?
Speaker 1: Yeah? But it's like how do you go on?
Speaker 3: And so it was.
Speaker 1: You know, I mean, tears were shed and there were
Speaker 1: all sides of it, because even even on the black
Speaker 1: side of things, they were just like yo, man, that's no,
Speaker 1: they're they're there. I Mean I've had arguments of intense
Speaker 1: levels with you know, well you know why they stand
Speaker 1: up for themselves and be like yo, fuck y'all. And
Speaker 1: you know, and I'm just like, dude, when you're I
Speaker 1: always call this the price is right syndrome. The prices
Speaker 1: right syndrome is that when you're why ching the prices
Speaker 1: right in the comfort of your home, you know, you
Speaker 1: know that, yeah, you know that Turtle wat Turtle is
Speaker 1: eight ninety nine, you know. But when you're when you're
Speaker 1: on the prices right, it's like a thousand. It's like
Speaker 1: you always know the answers when it's not when you're
Speaker 1: not there. And I've been, okay, I've been in situations
Speaker 1: and this is the thing, because I'm sure that you
Speaker 1: you've definitely been in a situation frontal Bill Bill come
Speaker 1: from Indiana's probably definitely lie. He has been in a
Speaker 1: situation where I mean, even today, I mean I'll stay
Speaker 1: with all casual iness that you know, maybe my my
Speaker 1: average of getting stopped, you know, six times of years,
Speaker 1: like I expect every January, okay, and I think about
Speaker 1: it a lot, like, wow, I'm gonna have six six
Speaker 1: runnings with and still the point where I gotta prepared,
Speaker 1: like I keep extra lego hearts in the car what
Speaker 1: you give them out to cor No three times like,
Speaker 1: you know, because if I want to go out and
Speaker 1: be comfortable and not have to take selfies, I wear
Speaker 1: a hood, I break my hair, I wear dark glasses.
Speaker 1: It buys me ten seconds of Yeah, I know you're
Speaker 1: looking like a mirror. You're not ever you, But yes
Speaker 1: it works. Sometimes I can sneak in movies and I'm cool.
Speaker 1: But when that shit happens, put on jazz music.
Speaker 11: Yeah, no, for real, do not turn your head to
Speaker 11: look back.
Speaker 1: You're you're programmed. I mean you can even be like,
Speaker 1: all right, fuck it, I'm down for the cars and
Speaker 1: Queen Latifa, your way out that car. But then it'll
Speaker 1: just be like in Supreme, I set it off, was
Speaker 1: set off? I got it? Or it's like, you know,
Speaker 1: the second they see, wait a minute, I gotta stop
Speaker 1: by ic ic e, I gotta stop by ice ice. Yeah,
Speaker 1: this summer in California, what is that immigration?
Speaker 11: Why they stop?
Speaker 1: I was? I was, we were, we were driving hudriving.
Speaker 1: I was being driven from my gig in uh San Diego,
Speaker 1: which has a lot of activity of fence jump and whatnot,
Speaker 1: Like they have the little signs of families like running
Speaker 1: the border, like be whare the you know, like you
Speaker 1: see deer warning. Well they have signs of like up
Speaker 1: like a shadow. It's like a shadow, a shadow of
Speaker 1: four family members running. And the baby got a little
Speaker 1: teddy bear. I'm like, why they have a blanket and
Speaker 1: teddy bear?
Speaker 7: Like they think you're stashing the family Mexicans in your
Speaker 7: black suburban.
Speaker 1: Well they stopped. They stopped my driver, and you know,
Speaker 1: I was asleep, but she told me like, you know,
Speaker 1: well they stopped us, and I said, what happened. She's like, well,
Speaker 1: you know, I'm driving my client from his concert. And
Speaker 1: they said, well who's your client? So a question with
Speaker 1: love from the roots. And they were kind of like
Speaker 1: like okay, likely story, female driver, blonde, and so they
Speaker 1: made her roll down. Now you sleep. You know, yeah
Speaker 1: I was, but no, I'm saying that when he saw
Speaker 1: he's like, oh yeah, that is him. She's like, oh yeah,
Speaker 1: they looked at your your your lego was like oh
Speaker 1: that is him and rolled it up. I mean, I'm
Speaker 1: not that happens a lot. I just don't tweet about
Speaker 1: our Instagram about it every time I get stopped. But
Speaker 1: my whole point, what was my point was that the
Speaker 1: conversation of my whole the conversation that this movie brought
Speaker 1: on after we saw it was me having explained that, yes,
Speaker 1: even in my privilege, since you wait, that even I'm
Speaker 1: susceptible to to that sort of treatment, and it still happens. Yeah,
Speaker 1: but sometimes you still got to convince people of that
Speaker 1: because they just think because you're on television or that
Speaker 1: you got some dollars, that you're amused, and you're not.
Speaker 1: You're so not. And so you know, I wanted to
Speaker 1: My whole point of the song was I wanted to
Speaker 1: make a song that really speaks to liberals who in
Speaker 1: the back of their mind always have that conversation of
Speaker 1: a little tinge of doubt. Uh, and for people that
Speaker 1: just sort of sit on the sidelines, because even when
Speaker 1: like you know, I have parents that made you watch
Speaker 1: Eyes on the Prize, you know, sit down, yes, And
Speaker 1: the thing and the thing is is that, Uh, whenever
Speaker 1: I watch these documentaries, the people that I always question
Speaker 1: the most aren't those that are are committing the injustice,
Speaker 1: is those that are on the sidelines just watching.
Speaker 12: It's like that, James Boldencourt, is a thin line between
Speaker 12: what is it a witness and a participant?
Speaker 1: Yes, you know, it's very thin. It's like I almost
Speaker 1: have more hate for the witness that knows and won't
Speaker 1: at least acknowledge it at least and that's what we're
Speaker 1: going through now. It's like, oh God, please acknowledge it.
Speaker 1: And so uh In getting BELOWD to sing the song,
Speaker 1: yes you know that already because I played it for you,
Speaker 1: and getting BLOWD to sing the song, blows really the
Speaker 1: only singer that I could think of today that just
Speaker 1: encompasses everything that this ending was supposed to be. Gentle
Speaker 1: as a lamb, but ferocious as a lion. And it's
Speaker 1: a seven minute song which I let him go back
Speaker 1: shit crazy sometimes. Yeah, absolutely everything. There's even a point
Speaker 1: where he threw down the microphone.
Speaker 11: Yeah, what did you feel?
Speaker 7: The friend?
Speaker 8: Phenomenal? Phenomenal And you.
Speaker 1: Know, it was kind of weird at the time because
Speaker 1: usually when you get quote the credits song, that usually
Speaker 1: means that there might be a chance that you could
Speaker 1: get an oscar, usually for films of this nature glory. Yes,
Speaker 1: if this song is in the credits, then that means
Speaker 1: it's different Oscar. Yeah, And usually it's like, man, okay,
Speaker 1: let's get that big name and let's you know, let's
Speaker 1: let's go for it. But I mean, at the end
Speaker 1: of the day, it's like I had to go with
Speaker 1: my conviction and go with be right.
Speaker 4: Sorry but not really.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you just you. I had to go with what
Speaker 1: I felt was the right person that would really grasp
Speaker 1: your attention.
Speaker 5: He would do it, and uh, this was that.
Speaker 1: And I'm realizing that I've just spoken for the last.
Speaker 11: I just wanted to ask Catherine.
Speaker 7: So in the process of figuring out this song, this
Speaker 7: has to be huge, just has to emote, has to
Speaker 7: do this.
Speaker 11: Why a mirror or the roots are how was that called?
Speaker 3: Well?
Speaker 8: I just I love everything that he does, so and
Speaker 8: I just thought it had to it had the right
Speaker 8: I I don't know, the right emotional grabby toss and
Speaker 8: for this piece. I mean, and when he saw the
Speaker 8: movie and then we talked, it was just like I
Speaker 8: was perfect.
Speaker 12: Before though You've done that, like you did that with
Speaker 12: in Strange Days, with skunkan Nazi, with the last Like
Speaker 12: so you I've seen you do it. You know, you
Speaker 12: take like a kind of an unusual band or an
Speaker 12: unlikely choice and you know do it. At the end,
Speaker 12: I thought that was dope.
Speaker 8: Too, oh good. I just yeah, it just seemed like
Speaker 8: a perfect a perfect fit.
Speaker 11: Strange Days was my movie, Juliette.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, yeah, you're the good for that reference.
Speaker 1: I forgot about skunking all right, Well it just hit
Speaker 1: me before I went on that fifteen minute. I remember
Speaker 1: what My initial question was, why did you want to
Speaker 1: do the joy? Now I'm like, but you're you're you're
Speaker 1: operation level. The way you shot the film, did you
Speaker 1: use stock film? Like I don't know how to describe it.
Speaker 1: It almost feels like she that king died it. Oh yeah,
Speaker 1: she made it look vintage, like shooting get down.
Speaker 11: They did it first.
Speaker 1: Everybody, you just thing to bring up here.
Speaker 4: Even I know that.
Speaker 11: Okay, so when the breaks, I don't know, to.
Speaker 1: Get that Detroit in fact, just get that in Detroit.
Speaker 1: Yeah it was I mean, what was I guess my
Speaker 1: correcting that you use like certain we.
Speaker 8: Use lenses from the period and and yet digital cameras
Speaker 8: and it was like maybe two weeks before we were
Speaker 8: going to start shooting. They made it. They made it
Speaker 8: possible to adapt those lenses to these new digital cameras,
Speaker 8: which are actually a pretty small and fairly light, which
Speaker 8: gives you that sort of more nimble approach. But the
Speaker 8: vintage just gives the patina of of it gives a
Speaker 8: patina period. And then I also intercut it with some
Speaker 8: documentary footage that you know, so it kind of I
Speaker 8: don't know it co existed, or I thought it co
Speaker 8: existed fairly well to kind of give you this scope
Speaker 8: and feel and authenticity of the time, and that was
Speaker 8: that was kind of critical to me.
Speaker 1: Now I want to ask you about Will Poulter. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll go out there right now. I'll say that he'll
Speaker 1: I'll be shocked if he doesn't get nominated for Best
Speaker 1: I don't know if he's supporting. Would he be supporting
Speaker 1: or would he is he Maine? Wouldn't you submit those
Speaker 1: names or does the company submit those names?
Speaker 8: Oh well, we haven't even talked about it.
Speaker 1: I feel like if you submit him for Best Supporting Actor,
Speaker 1: he will win. But his level of evil is and
Speaker 1: the thing is, I know he's the opposite of that
Speaker 1: because I had to the person that I saw the
Speaker 1: movie with the first time. She was all disheveled because
Speaker 1: you know of what he represented in his other films,
Speaker 1: and he's such a gentle voice those things. So when
Speaker 1: you are portraying something that intense, when you yelled cut.
Speaker 1: Is it like okay, where's my iPhone at? And you know, okay,
Speaker 1: what's on on television in the game, and okay, order
Speaker 1: me a pizza? Okay, it's I know that one of
Speaker 1: them had to go through some sort of therapy or
Speaker 1: some sort of process to get rid of that character.
Speaker 8: Well, I mean when when I would say cut, First
Speaker 8: of all, he never lost his accent. He was in
Speaker 8: that accent for the movie twenty four to seven during
Speaker 8: the shoot, and in fact I prove off and on yes.
Speaker 8: And but when I would say cut, I would sometimes
Speaker 8: look whereas Will and I'd see him out on the
Speaker 8: porch and his head would be in his hands. I mean,
Speaker 8: it was really really hard for him, and as it
Speaker 8: was for everybody, but I mean it was extremely difficult
Speaker 8: for him.
Speaker 1: Like were they able to interact with each other?
Speaker 7: Oh yeah, camera, Oh yeah, yeah, because even like Tarantino
Speaker 7: said for Jango that like he had to do some
Speaker 7: special things with the cast, you know, in between and
Speaker 7: make sure everybody was cool because it was soultent.
Speaker 8: Yeah, you know, yeah, you have to. I mean I
Speaker 8: just and I had a conversation with everybody going into
Speaker 8: this film. I said, you know, trying to give them,
Speaker 8: you know, a sense of what the lay of the
Speaker 8: land might be and how you know how at the
Speaker 8: end of the day, they're going to be asked to
Speaker 8: talk about this movie and are they comfortable talking about this?
Speaker 8: Are you comfortable performing this? You know, yes, this really happened,
Speaker 8: but that doesn't necessarily make it any easier. And so
Speaker 8: having that conversation, they were very prepared, or I felt
Speaker 8: that they were pretty prepared going in.
Speaker 12: Did you have to do anything in terms of making
Speaker 12: sure you talk about things that do to make them comfortable?
Speaker 12: Did you have to do things to make them uncomfortable?
Speaker 1: At times? I was. It reminded me of Spike Lee
Speaker 1: in the school days. Yeah, Spike Lee school days. He
Speaker 1: would say in private Ryan where he would.
Speaker 12: Yeah, Stephen. He made all the guys that were going
Speaker 12: to get private Ryan, they all had to do like
Speaker 12: pt and all this crazy physical stuff. But Matt Damon
Speaker 12: didn't do any of it. So like they they really
Speaker 12: had that contempt for him, right we risk and I
Speaker 12: ask or say, this, motherfucker, you know what I mean?
Speaker 1: Like they've really had that. So did you have to
Speaker 1: do anything stuff like that?
Speaker 8: Early early in the shoot, they kind of kept each
Speaker 8: group kept to themselves just for that reason because if
Speaker 8: they were too friendly, it might be too difficult. And
Speaker 8: then when they became more comfortable and more relaxed with it,
Speaker 8: and I felt, I think felt more confident that they
Speaker 8: were in their character and they really understood their character
Speaker 8: than they were very close with each other. But it's
Speaker 8: a full on commitment. I mean something like this.
Speaker 7: Obviously, who's the technical advisor for the nuances of like
Speaker 7: the time how you know this is Detroit? Were talking
Speaker 7: about black folks, the slang, just the just make it
Speaker 7: making it authentic.
Speaker 1: Did you shoot it on location or yeah?
Speaker 11: Or that too?
Speaker 8: Well, we shot some of it in Detroit. Unfortunately, about
Speaker 8: a year before we started we went there where we
Speaker 8: wanted to shoot, they had disbanded their incentives program, so
Speaker 8: I needed to go to Boston to save money. Okay,
Speaker 8: because they give they have a rebate of you know,
Speaker 8: twenty five percent above and below the line. And Detroit,
Speaker 8: or rather Michigan used to but in their infinite wisdom,
Speaker 8: they disbanded it.
Speaker 12: Detroit Detroit, Yeah, us, they did that too. North Carolina
Speaker 12: did that too. Like we shot iron Man three and
Speaker 12: then was like nah, we ain't doing that no more.
Speaker 8: Yeah, and and you know it's crazy because if there
Speaker 8: was ever a city that could use this tremendous amount
Speaker 8: of revenue anyway that Yeah, So no, but we shot
Speaker 8: so we shot a lot of it in Boston.
Speaker 1: How many because there are a lot of exterior scenes. Yeah,
Speaker 1: how many blocks would you have to you know, transform
Speaker 1: to just to get it to look like that at least?
Speaker 1: How many?
Speaker 8: Actually not as much as you would think. I mean,
Speaker 8: it's fairly contained. I had an amazing production designer, Jeremy Hindle,
Speaker 8: who also did Sarah Dark and and yeah, I mean
Speaker 8: keeping it somewhat contained. And that's another benefit of a
Speaker 8: sort of documentary style. It's it you know, there isn't
Speaker 8: these big wide crane shots. I don't use cranes, you know,
Speaker 8: so you don't you know, you're just right here, you're
Speaker 8: in the car, or you're you know, over the back
Speaker 8: of somebody. So it's very it's intimate. And that actually
Speaker 8: is a benefit if you you know, don't have like
Speaker 8: giant or real estate in which to work with.
Speaker 11: So is that so did the same thing go for
Speaker 11: the costume and wardrobe?
Speaker 3: Is it? The say?
Speaker 11: Is it the same people from the other movies or
Speaker 11: did you have a little special for that.
Speaker 8: No, I used this wonderful woman fran scene for wardrobe,
Speaker 8: and she was just really I don't know, she's just
Speaker 8: extraordinary with I mean she got fabric from the period.
Speaker 8: She would like travel all over the country for fabric
Speaker 8: and then create these and then build these suits, and
Speaker 8: I mean everything was just meticulous, just meticulous, And so
Speaker 8: that was you We're really lucky to find those kind
Speaker 8: of artisans who who did that. But yeah, we were
Speaker 8: a lot of research and try the language. I mean
Speaker 8: there's a lot. I spent time with Melvin Dysmus, who
Speaker 8: John Boyega played, and a little bit of time with
Speaker 8: Larry the Dramatics, the man from the Dramatics, and he's
Speaker 8: it's hard for me to talk about this even to
Speaker 8: this day. You know, he's really I would think so
Speaker 8: and yeah, and then spend time with Julie, who was
Speaker 8: on the set every day with me, who the real
Speaker 8: that Julie played by Hannah Murray in the film, and
Speaker 8: and and she you know, she had to relive it
Speaker 8: and and and she just you know, I mean sometimes
Speaker 8: I would do a take and I'd be I look
Speaker 8: over my shoulder, and you know, would just be awful
Speaker 8: and I think, you know, it can't have been like that,
Speaker 8: and she'd say was worse.
Speaker 1: Dang, we we know. Well in the book in history
Speaker 1: is shown what the end result of the court case was. Uh,
Speaker 1: nobody in the various of course, in the various in
Speaker 1: the various lawsuits that that have occurred throughout the years
Speaker 1: of it, or the attempts to reopen the case. But
Speaker 1: always wondered if those two characters, in particular, the two
Speaker 1: white women that were caught up, did they ever have
Speaker 1: their own lawsuit or their own civil suit?
Speaker 8: And you know, not that I'm aware of, not that
Speaker 8: I'm aware of, But no, I don't think so.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because I looked all over the internet to see
Speaker 1: could they at least get justice and.
Speaker 11: Not they were they in the hotel with the guys?
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, the real crime, The real crime was that
Speaker 1: they were in Yeah.
Speaker 12: Yeah, but that's the test, like even if white women
Speaker 12: can't get it's like yeah lost calls, bro, yeah if yeah, isn't.
Speaker 7: There a display about this in the New Smithsonian. I
Speaker 7: don't know if you if you heard about the Detroit
Speaker 7: riots or did you guys you have to go no.
Speaker 1: No, no other one in d C. Yeah, yeah, there
Speaker 1: there's uh, you know there there's a riot section every decade.
Speaker 1: It's a very it's a very lovely and beautiful display
Speaker 1: of all the riots that America that is so sad,
Speaker 1: it's so hilarious. Yeah, god, I mean it goes from uh,
Speaker 1: Black Wall Street in Oklahoma and right, here's you know,
Speaker 1: in Memphis, and here's Detroit and here's Los Angeles. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's like they have extra room for the future one that.
Speaker 8: I don't know.
Speaker 11: But it's funny because it brings a question.
Speaker 7: It brings a question about riots and what do you
Speaker 7: think made the Detroit riots stand out from what else?
Speaker 11: What had happened?
Speaker 1: Why could they recover? Like what do you in your research?
Speaker 1: I feel as though this riot currently has Detroit where
Speaker 1: they are now? Like when I think of Detroit, I
Speaker 1: think of a CPS owned black and write desolate. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it's the American London. Yeah, and it's why do you
Speaker 1: think that they have yet to recover? And the importance
Speaker 1: of you releasing this film on the fiftieth anniversary of
Speaker 1: those riots on August fourth, twenty seventeen.
Speaker 8: Well, I think that's you know, that's a that's a
Speaker 8: really good question. I mean, I I don't know. I
Speaker 8: mean I think of the city as both equal parts resilient,
Speaker 8: and certainly the people I see I meet, they're really resilient.
Speaker 8: But at the same time, it's still a city that's
Speaker 8: that's been a war zone and it hasn't really recovered
Speaker 8: from the war zone, and that's you know, so it's
Speaker 8: kind of this weird dichotomy. And and I don't know.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I guess sometimes.
Speaker 8: I wish, I know, not.
Speaker 11: To put you on the spot, but I just I'm curious.
Speaker 7: I got to ask, do you feel like, because of
Speaker 7: this movie and the subject matter and everything else, that
Speaker 7: there should be is there a relationship with Detroit? I mean,
Speaker 7: I know you said you didn't you didn't shoot there,
Speaker 7: but a relationship in a way of like, you know
Speaker 7: that since they have the water issue, they have so
Speaker 7: many issues.
Speaker 11: Like it's not meant like, is there like a charitable relationship?
Speaker 11: Do you ever think about it?
Speaker 8: I think so, yes, they have seen it. We did
Speaker 8: a few screens and now we're going there for a
Speaker 8: premiere and we did shoot therefore, you know, maybe five
Speaker 8: six days, so we did shoot something there.
Speaker 11: So they got a little bit of the money from the.
Speaker 8: Absolutely absolutely, and I think you know, I mean, I mean,
Speaker 8: this is definitely a part of their past and and
Speaker 8: and so you know, but I think, I don't know.
Speaker 8: It speaks both to a kind of strength in that
Speaker 8: I mean, there's a lot of there's a lot of
Speaker 8: there's a huge art artist community there now and then
Speaker 8: that's kind of exciting and thriving. And yet at the
Speaker 8: same time, I mean, this tragedy is is imprinted, you know,
Speaker 8: in the DNA of the city. And and yet I
Speaker 8: mean again there's a tremendous amount of anger that precipitated it.
Speaker 8: But unlike let's say the Rodney King, right, I mean
Speaker 8: that that had a very specific flash point, the La riots,
Speaker 8: whereas this was attritional.
Speaker 7: I mean, this was right because it wasn't one bit
Speaker 7: off the riot just like Instice and people were fed up, exactly.
Speaker 8: And so you know, justice is the the conversation, you know, Jacob, Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 8: And you know, you can't heal until this you're hurt,
Speaker 8: you know, So maybe there's a a dialogue that can
Speaker 8: start in Detroit.
Speaker 1: And how many screens have you done in Detroit?
Speaker 8: And what's the general how many screenings we did well,
Speaker 8: we did a screening for the chief of police there.
Speaker 1: Oh wow, oh boy, how did that go?
Speaker 8: He wants it to be required viewing for every member
Speaker 8: of law enforcement. Seriously, yes, yes, yes.
Speaker 1: I got a response.
Speaker 4: That's great time.
Speaker 1: That's crazy to me. That was the last thing I
Speaker 1: was going to expect. Detroit is about to be the
Speaker 1: police eyes on the price. It's like required.
Speaker 12: It's like the video to make you watch exactly pizza
Speaker 12: or something your train and enjoy it.
Speaker 11: Wow, just clean the water, I know, right, just clean.
Speaker 8: So I think it's you know, is there is there
Speaker 8: a way forward? I mean certainly, And we've screened it
Speaker 8: for some faith based groups, and you know, we're trying
Speaker 8: to get it out there, and of course it comes
Speaker 8: out nationwide, so you know, maybe maybe you know it
Speaker 8: can be of some help open dialogue, dialogue exactly.
Speaker 1: So once this is like when you put your baby
Speaker 1: away and you go to the premiere and you do
Speaker 1: the last press junket and I'm sure that movie season
Speaker 1: is over after February Oscar time, At what point do
Speaker 1: you start researching your next project? Like do you overlap
Speaker 1: or are you going to swim in Hawaii for two
Speaker 1: weeks and just like you know, do you watch friends
Speaker 1: on TBS.
Speaker 4: Like watches Fred the TBS.
Speaker 1: Change the channel, dude, It's like I've fallen down many
Speaker 1: a friend's rabbit hole, Like.
Speaker 12: My rabbit hole is American Ninja Warrior's supposed to be
Speaker 12: family guy.
Speaker 1: So for you, like, are you thinking about the next project?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 8: I can't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, but we're not acting like you. I mean, you've
Speaker 1: done you Your average is a year and a half
Speaker 1: to two years between films, So it's like I imagine
Speaker 1: that you least have to research six to seven months
Speaker 1: before you're like, all right, let's green like this.
Speaker 11: But just got to be exhausted though right now. But
Speaker 11: even had the energy.
Speaker 1: But this is also your production company, correct, Like is this?
Speaker 2: Oh?
Speaker 8: I worked with them with Anna Perna, who are fabulous
Speaker 8: on zero Dark thirty and so so that was a
Speaker 8: good kind of you know, continuity there. But yeah, I
Speaker 8: don't know, this was a few years actually, kind of
Speaker 8: five years from release to release, so it's been.
Speaker 11: A little while.
Speaker 1: So you're saying that maybe twenty twenty two. Can you
Speaker 1: go that long? Because again, if you're not popcorn budget,
Speaker 1: you know, yeah, two hundred and fifty million, I mean
Speaker 1: I can imagine that the light bill has to be
Speaker 1: paid and stuff like that, So it would be whoviy
Speaker 1: you at least know what the plan is for twenty nineteen.
Speaker 8: It would if you have any story, I'm open.
Speaker 1: Would you would you go out of wait? Let me
Speaker 1: just ask, would you ever go off type and just
Speaker 1: do romantic? Yeah? Like a Froffy Yeah you've got mail
Speaker 1: part two?
Speaker 8: Wow, John.
Speaker 1: Version of a romantic A man and his dog?
Speaker 12: How do you you know when you're between projects? Like financially?
Speaker 12: I mean, how do you make that work?
Speaker 8: In terms of I do commercials?
Speaker 1: Wait?
Speaker 11: Are y'all saying that Catherine go broke in between projects?
Speaker 5: Because I'm real.
Speaker 1: Artists, Real artists have to keep jobs. I have nineteen Yes,
Speaker 1: this is I have nineteen jobs. Yeah, I got one job.
Speaker 1: One job does not pay me to pay you. One
Speaker 1: of the job does not baby enough to pay you, guys.
Speaker 1: I got it. I gotta paid this fascinating. So commercials,
Speaker 1: that's like you do you do those kind of in
Speaker 1: your I do? And are you uh?
Speaker 11: Do you uh a different name?
Speaker 1: Alan Smith?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 1: No, but so you don't do like the hinds kept up?
Speaker 1: Catchup commercial Japanese commercials like.
Speaker 8: I haven't done those, but it's I don't know, it's
Speaker 8: interesting because that's where I can kind of maybe check
Speaker 8: out of content a little bit and just look at
Speaker 8: it from an equipment and tech technical standpoint, you know,
Speaker 8: just the mechanics of film.
Speaker 1: I figured that's harder though, because you have to tell
Speaker 1: a story in thirty seconds, which you specifically I don't
Speaker 1: know if it's like the level of your commercials, are
Speaker 1: you know, Mercedes or classy Curl like would you says
Speaker 1: I'm sorry. I was watching the Soul Train episode before
Speaker 1: I got here, so in my head, I'm sorry. I Uh.
Speaker 1: What I'm saying is when you do commercials, is it
Speaker 1: harder to make an impact or or tell the story
Speaker 1: in thirty seconds to a minute however long the commercial is,
Speaker 1: than it is to tell a story in which you
Speaker 1: have complete control of I don't know.
Speaker 2: I like the.
Speaker 8: I kind of like the challenge of you know, like
Speaker 8: thirty seconds or a minute. You know you're just I mean,
Speaker 8: it's a it's it's a deep dive.
Speaker 1: You give an example of a commercial that you've done
Speaker 1: that we've all seen, but it's a different part of
Speaker 1: your brain, right.
Speaker 8: It's a different part of your brain.
Speaker 1: I look at them.
Speaker 4: When I do commercials, it's like one thing, and when
Speaker 4: you do creative things, totally different things.
Speaker 1: Yeah, ladies and gentlemen, but it's hard. He is who
Speaker 1: it's it's but it's it's hard. It's not my version
Speaker 1: of the commercial the sandwiches. Yeah, when they ask to
Speaker 1: do seven second stingers. So if there's a new bit,
Speaker 1: you know, sidewalk movies, and they need usually like Mark Elliott.
Speaker 11: Yeah, but that's not because that's where you come from.
Speaker 11: You do come from long form, but people come from.
Speaker 1: The song I submitted to her film is seven minutes
Speaker 1: like three minutes, because I knew he has to simmer
Speaker 1: and cook. He's not microwave, you know, but at fallon,
Speaker 1: you got to have a catchy ass jingle in seven seconds.
Speaker 7: In radio, you're supposed to talk for thirty seconds, sometimes
Speaker 7: in a minute, and.
Speaker 1: But sometimes you have a script and you know, you
Speaker 1: get into a rhythm of how's your day or fifty
Speaker 1: and this is Yeah.
Speaker 12: The guy who did it was similar what Catherine was saying.
Speaker 12: The guy that did the I was in an interview.
Speaker 1: With the guy that did the Windows startup music.
Speaker 12: Right, and he was saying how that was like once
Speaker 12: he got into that, like he had to do God,
Speaker 12: have a many revisions until they finally got it. But
Speaker 12: he said, like once he was so used to working
Speaker 12: in like that little five or six seconds. Once he
Speaker 12: sat down to write a song that felt like that universe.
Speaker 4: That's my life.
Speaker 6: Like I can't write a three and a half minute
Speaker 6: song anymore. I can write, I can write, I can
Speaker 6: crush a minute. But yeah, that's right because this street
Speaker 6: your songs are like ninety seconds.
Speaker 4: Yeah, at the most.
Speaker 1: Street, I'm the firse chorus.
Speaker 4: Cat like, I don't do bridges anymore.
Speaker 11: Electric company, get.
Speaker 4: Right to the point.
Speaker 1: I see, I see.
Speaker 4: Anyway, that's not what we're talking about, Cat biglow.
Speaker 1: Question.
Speaker 4: Interesting since I'm talking uh.
Speaker 6: My fifteen year old we would be super pissed if
Speaker 6: you didn't bring up Point Break conversation. Uh part of
Speaker 6: me once like remember when you made a point break
Speaker 6: because it's awesome, but like like did you have any
Speaker 6: concept of the impact that movie would have? And like
Speaker 6: that we were talking about, like uh think like TBS friends,
Speaker 6: like if comes on the television, I can't sat like wait,
Speaker 6: I'm done for the next hour and a half.
Speaker 1: Can I add on to that?
Speaker 4: Yes? Please, you're the boss?
Speaker 1: Are you even Catherine? Are you even aware of this
Speaker 1: new uh embracing of point break from millennials? Like for
Speaker 1: some reason, usually on weekends I will go to a
Speaker 1: movie theater and see a throwback film, like there'll some
Speaker 1: art house film, will you know? So like, and what's
Speaker 1: weird is that there's a new culture of this generation
Speaker 1: that looks at intense drama films as comedies. And when
Speaker 1: I saw a point Break at the Nighthawk, like three
Speaker 1: months ago, any line that Keanu Reeves said.
Speaker 4: Reeves, I mean, there's so many, like the whole thing
Speaker 4: is amazing.
Speaker 1: But I realized he was this most Keanu in point
Speaker 1: where he could be.
Speaker 11: He was free. It was like I could be mean.
Speaker 1: So what was it like in your head? Did you
Speaker 1: have any idea that twenty five years from now? Like, dude,
Speaker 1: that voice like it's the best I'd like, whoa, Like
Speaker 1: how do you? How do you direct that film?
Speaker 13: Where?
Speaker 1: But he's Californian because I know a lot of dudes
Speaker 1: that talk like that in California. So it's almost like,
Speaker 1: like what's going on in your head as he's acting,
Speaker 1: Like you're just like that's Ted from Excellent. Well that
Speaker 1: was you know that you could be honest? No, no,
Speaker 1: it was because I see you trying to the words.
Speaker 8: It was actually a real challenge to get the movie
Speaker 8: made with with somebody who had hadn't didn't have that kind.
Speaker 1: Of you know, action spirit, no actions.
Speaker 4: Well wrong word.
Speaker 8: And coming from Phil and Ted's you know, you're like, okay,
Speaker 8: well now how can he You know, I was just
Speaker 8: trying to process that and I I don't know, I
Speaker 8: just I thought.
Speaker 1: He was was it salt? No?
Speaker 8: No?
Speaker 7: No?
Speaker 1: Did you say I want that guy?
Speaker 8: I want that guy?
Speaker 9: And what did they?
Speaker 1: What did Hollywood say? What did the producers say? Well?
Speaker 8: No, because because I know, it's just it's just the
Speaker 8: way that how can I say it? I mean, I
Speaker 8: was just convinced that he'd be perfect for this part.
Speaker 8: He was Johnny Utah, that was the name of the
Speaker 8: piece originally. And and and then I finally found a
Speaker 8: producer who, again just like hurt Locker, I was like okay, like,
Speaker 8: well we'll take a flyer and I said yes. So
Speaker 8: I was really lucky.
Speaker 1: We are you surprised that the sus of it?
Speaker 13: Yeah, and when you saw the remake I did see it, Okayan, But.
Speaker 8: Did you see Point Break Live? Any of you?
Speaker 1: There's a live break.
Speaker 8: Oh, it's been for years. It's a performance. I don't
Speaker 8: have anything to do with it. All I know it's
Speaker 8: called point Break Live. It's probably here somewhere, certainly it's
Speaker 8: It was in Los Angeles and I went with Edgar
Speaker 8: Wright one because he wanted to see it and he wanted.
Speaker 4: To Yeah, I know, yeah, and different one.
Speaker 8: The other one, yeah, the one that didn't do show
Speaker 8: right right, that one. And anyway, there's a character in
Speaker 8: it that plays me. It's very funny and she's like
Speaker 8: got a megaphone and you know half the time. Oh,
Speaker 8: it's really I mean, you have you buy your ticket
Speaker 8: and they give you like a clear poncho because for
Speaker 8: the wave sequences they throw water all off.
Speaker 1: I want to I want to go there.
Speaker 8: And they picked somebody from the audience for Keanu each
Speaker 8: night with and they give them a card that you know, yeah,
Speaker 8: so it could be still it's going on for years.
Speaker 1: You or did you just show ambushing one night?
Speaker 8: No, we just ambushed. But then they realized it was
Speaker 8: that I was there, and then you know, when they
Speaker 8: robbed the banks, they came and robbed both Edgar and everything.
Speaker 8: Everything that we had they took and it was it
Speaker 8: was fabulous. I don't know.
Speaker 1: I'm looking on Google right now, Catherine.
Speaker 7: Have you ever had an issue with someone taking direction
Speaker 7: from you because they've never worked with the female director?
Speaker 1: Well, I don't, unless you'd like to.
Speaker 8: I think I don't know. I've I think either I've
Speaker 8: been lucky or you know, I kind of I steer
Speaker 8: clear of assholes. Assholes exactly, you know, but I mean,
Speaker 8: you know, you can you can sense a sort of
Speaker 8: attitude and I move away, I move I'm moving the
Speaker 8: opposite direction. But no, I've been really lucky, you know,
Speaker 8: Crewe and cast.
Speaker 12: One thing I was always curious about, for the time
Speaker 12: that you were with James Cameron, what was it like
Speaker 12: to be, you know, for two creative people in one household.
Speaker 5: What was that like?
Speaker 4: Well, yeah, seconism and now who you used to be married?
Speaker 4: Let's that was that was?
Speaker 8: I mean, we're actually great friends, so I mean it
Speaker 8: was it was kind of fabulous for the time that
Speaker 8: it was fabulous, until it was no longer fabulous. But
Speaker 8: I mean we talk a lot about film, as you
Speaker 8: can imagine, you know, like like, you know.
Speaker 11: Just did you steer each other away from projects?
Speaker 1: Like two film nerds in the same household a lot
Speaker 1: of that, Like, you know, why are you using so
Speaker 1: many close ups?
Speaker 8: Why are you using so many what are you using
Speaker 8: white angle? Why are you using it twenty four when
Speaker 8: you could use this three hundred? You know, it's that
Speaker 8: kind of conversation.
Speaker 5: So over you.
Speaker 1: Let your petty flag.
Speaker 8: I completely was I was surprised. I mean I thought
Speaker 8: one hundred percent it was Avatar.
Speaker 1: It was not in any way, so not any endpoint.
Speaker 1: Did you give him a side eye as you walked
Speaker 1: up to the podio?
Speaker 4: No, no, no, definitely.
Speaker 11: Looking at the oscar.
Speaker 1: Well, we're silly like that. We're just trying to be
Speaker 1: very respectful and use the good China.
Speaker 4: In China.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly know, we had a paper plays out we
Speaker 1: bring well. No, you know, I figure at some point
Speaker 1: you might get tired of of having to represent what's
Speaker 1: it like to be at the mountaintop and the boys club,
Speaker 1: and I know it gets tired of something that you
Speaker 1: would want to just be a director, not the first
Speaker 1: female or history making.
Speaker 11: So isn't there is there a female director collective?
Speaker 8: Like, well, there's there's a kind of a kind of
Speaker 8: like that DTA Director Skilled of America is the steering committee,
Speaker 8: And I mean, you you know, I suppose my feeling
Speaker 8: is I've always resisted a conversation about your woman doing.
Speaker 8: You know, I think that kind of ghettoizes women, you know,
Speaker 8: in other words, that actually prevents a perceptual in other words,
Speaker 8: it it siloizes them. And so you know, I think
Speaker 8: of myself as a filmmaker. I don't think of myself
Speaker 8: as a woman director.
Speaker 1: So there's no Sundays with Sophia and.
Speaker 8: I just I just don't think of that only because
Speaker 8: I think it, well, I don't think like that because
Speaker 8: I think it perpetuates that inequity.
Speaker 7: But what about from a mentorship standpoint, because it is
Speaker 7: and I'm guessing that there is an inequity in the
Speaker 7: numbers of the female directors.
Speaker 8: And seven percent you mean that that kind of inequity.
Speaker 7: I mean, I don't know, it's that like sixty cents
Speaker 7: to a dollar to me, but the facts facts. But yeah,
Speaker 7: so what about on that note, because there is a
Speaker 7: economy of Okay, I don't want to be the female director,
Speaker 7: but hey, it's not.
Speaker 11: A lot of us.
Speaker 1: So how do I is the game where you become
Speaker 1: moreau like do you run? Do you imagine like maybe
Speaker 1: fifteen years from now you will have your own paramount
Speaker 1: where you.
Speaker 3: Wow.
Speaker 1: Make sure that again like again, you said that, you
Speaker 1: already said that you don't want to focus on the
Speaker 1: sex of it, but at least from what you know.
Speaker 1: And I know that you've had a lot of mansplanning
Speaker 1: done in your life and a bunch of no's told
Speaker 1: to you, and you've saw injustice where your male counterparts
Speaker 1: would have gotten that and sure petty shit like, well,
Speaker 1: I think it should be done this way and that whatever.
Speaker 1: So is there any desire to I would like to
Speaker 1: open my own production company and give fellow means out
Speaker 1: there a voice or that sort of thing.
Speaker 8: Well, I'm well, I'm working with I do you know,
Speaker 8: I'm producing a couple of things, and I try to
Speaker 8: you know, I try to give back in that way.
Speaker 8: And I suppose also in the world of philanthropy, as
Speaker 8: I said, elephant conservation or any wildlife trafficking conservation, So
Speaker 8: you try to give back in a way that's meaningful.
Speaker 8: But I also am a creative advisor at Sundance, and
Speaker 8: that's where I sort of spend most of my energy
Speaker 8: of trying.
Speaker 1: To even at the score.
Speaker 8: Well, yeah, to a certain extent. On the other hand,
Speaker 8: I sort of always walk away from that feeling like
Speaker 8: I get way more than anybody else. You know, It's
Speaker 8: just I don't know. Do you know the kind of
Speaker 8: I don't presume to be able to. I mean, I
Speaker 8: never want to tell somebody what to do. I just
Speaker 8: want to do what I do and hope that inspires
Speaker 8: others to carry on. I always tell them, don't take
Speaker 8: no for an answer. No, it doesn't exist in your world,
Speaker 8: in your universe. No doesn't exist.
Speaker 1: Well said, I know that. I know this much. Thank
Speaker 1: you very much, Kavin Bigelo for coming on Quest Love Supreme.
Speaker 8: I appreciate, thank you, thank you, thank you, all of you.
Speaker 1: All of you and on behalf of Boss Bill, Unpaid
Speaker 1: Bill Sugar, Steve Fon Ticcolo and Laiya aka Margaret. We
Speaker 1: thank you Kavin Bigelow for coming on the show, reminding
Speaker 1: all VPU out there because you enjoyed to have a
Speaker 1: conversation about what's going on. Get involved. Just don't be
Speaker 1: a couch critic and criticize. You're telling me you'll do
Speaker 1: something about it. This Quest Love Supreme. Thank you very much.
Speaker 1: I will see you the next go round. I wish
Speaker 1: you love peace. Quest Love Supreme is a production of iHeartRadio.
Speaker 1: This classic episode was produced by the team at Pandora.
Speaker 1: For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts,
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