WEBVTT - Auron MacIntyre - The Battle for Conservatism 0:00:11.657 --> 0:00:14.937 You're listening to The Buck Sexton Show podcast, make sure 0:00:14.937 --> 0:00:17.977 you subscribe to the podcast on the iHeartRadio app or 0:00:17.977 --> 0:00:21.577 wherever you get your podcasts. Hey, everybody, Welcome to The 0:00:21.617 --> 0:00:26.857 Buck Sexton Show. Our guest tonight is Oran McIntyre. He 0:00:27.097 --> 0:00:30.217 is with The Blaze. He's got the Ordin McIntyre podcast 0:00:30.297 --> 0:00:34.097 over there. He was born in Florida, grew up all 0:00:34.097 --> 0:00:36.897 over the South, son of a military officer, a very 0:00:37.337 --> 0:00:40.337 high wattage individual. I'm really good forward to talking to him, 0:00:41.017 --> 0:00:43.617 just based on his very excellent Twitter or in. Thanks 0:00:43.617 --> 0:00:45.217 for being with us, man, great, great to have you 0:00:45.257 --> 0:00:48.457 on the program. Yeah, thanks for having me tell me 0:00:48.537 --> 0:00:55.337 about foxes and lions in the context of politics America 0:00:55.617 --> 0:01:01.337 and Nicolo Machiavelli's seminal work The Prince, which I know 0:01:01.377 --> 0:01:04.057 you've recently cited all these things together in a sub stack. 0:01:04.097 --> 0:01:05.337 Break this one down for me. I thought it was 0:01:05.337 --> 0:01:11.177 fascinating your most recent analysis on this. Oh thanks, no, absolutely, Yeah. 0:01:11.217 --> 0:01:16.177 So Machiavelli had this comparison between foxes and lions, and 0:01:16.297 --> 0:01:20.097 his advice for rulers is that you should be clever 0:01:20.457 --> 0:01:23.257 like a fox and be able to avoid traps, but 0:01:24.137 --> 0:01:27.937 fox as well, clever can't really actually fight, say a 0:01:28.017 --> 0:01:30.577 pack of wolves, and so you also need to have 0:01:30.977 --> 0:01:33.057 some of the aspect of the lion, the ability to 0:01:33.137 --> 0:01:35.777 fight back, you know, just kind of bruce strength out 0:01:35.777 --> 0:01:39.457 of certain situations. And guys who kind of continued in 0:01:39.537 --> 0:01:45.377 Machiavelli's political tradition, guys like Alfredo Pardo kind of extended this. 0:01:45.497 --> 0:01:49.377 He called them type one and Type two derivations or residues, 0:01:49.417 --> 0:01:52.577 but it's easier to just go foxes and lions. And 0:01:52.657 --> 0:01:56.097 basically he said that, you know, each leadership classes has 0:01:56.137 --> 0:01:59.097 got an ad mixture of kind of your clever people, 0:01:59.097 --> 0:02:02.977 the people who are looking to kind of manipulate situations, 0:02:03.057 --> 0:02:06.777 alter things, look around corners, explore new ideas, and then 0:02:06.817 --> 0:02:10.657 it has your core of people who are strong, paytriotic. 0:02:10.977 --> 0:02:15.977 They're about keeping institutions rock solid and perpetuating tradition, that 0:02:16.057 --> 0:02:18.777 kind of thing. And so your fox type leaders are 0:02:18.777 --> 0:02:20.217 the ones that are going to get you out of 0:02:20.257 --> 0:02:25.417 situations where you need cleverness, nimbleness, eth ability to manipulate systems, 0:02:25.457 --> 0:02:27.417 and your lion type leaders are the ones that are 0:02:27.457 --> 0:02:29.457 going to get you out of situations where you need 0:02:29.537 --> 0:02:32.057 kind of that martial strength and that kind of wherewithal 0:02:32.097 --> 0:02:35.417 to carry through those difficult situations. And at the beginning 0:02:35.497 --> 0:02:39.537 of most civilizations you have very lion type leaders, but 0:02:39.657 --> 0:02:41.777 as you kind of go on, you end up with 0:02:41.817 --> 0:02:44.497 more fox type leaders. And we're in a situation right 0:02:44.577 --> 0:02:48.937 now we're almost entirely dominated by foxes and not lions. 0:02:49.057 --> 0:02:51.777 I would think maybe the animal that comes to mind 0:02:51.897 --> 0:02:56.337 is jackasses or donkeys, depending on who you're talking about. 0:02:56.417 --> 0:02:59.417 It certainly also has some political connotations there for which 0:02:59.417 --> 0:03:02.777 party seems to be doing the craziest stuff these days. 0:03:02.777 --> 0:03:06.457 I mean, one thing that I know you've written about 0:03:06.497 --> 0:03:11.897 the notion of using this conpt of the democratic machine 0:03:12.017 --> 0:03:15.897 as a way as of actually avoiding accountability. Because one 0:03:15.897 --> 0:03:18.057 thing that I talked about during COVID was the whole game, 0:03:18.137 --> 0:03:22.337 the whole time was somehow there were endless orders and 0:03:22.417 --> 0:03:25.737 you weren't in charge, meaning you, the American citizen person, 0:03:25.777 --> 0:03:29.897 individual of anything, but nobody was really responsible for making 0:03:29.897 --> 0:03:33.617 sure that you were subject to constant, endless orders that 0:03:33.617 --> 0:03:37.217 made no sense whatsoever. How does that work? Well? One 0:03:37.217 --> 0:03:40.537 of the great things about democracy for people in powers, 0:03:40.577 --> 0:03:44.817 it tends to obfuskate who's actually delivering kind of the rulings. Right, 0:03:44.857 --> 0:03:46.857 if you have a king in charge, you may hate 0:03:46.857 --> 0:03:48.777 that king. You might be terrible, it might be a tyrant. 0:03:48.897 --> 0:03:50.177 But at the end of the day, you know who 0:03:50.297 --> 0:03:52.897 sent the guys who are kicking your door down, right, 0:03:52.937 --> 0:03:56.977 Like you understand who's in charge. When you have a democracy, well, 0:03:57.097 --> 0:03:59.937 you know, it's a system. These people are supposed to 0:03:59.937 --> 0:04:03.897 be representing you. They're supposed to be popular. Sovereignty means 0:04:03.897 --> 0:04:06.697 you select your leaders, and that means that really, at 0:04:06.697 --> 0:04:08.017 the end of the day, even if a leader did 0:04:08.017 --> 0:04:10.817 something wrong, it's kind of your neighbors job to vote 0:04:10.857 --> 0:04:14.017 them out. Right. It's the person down the street who's 0:04:14.057 --> 0:04:16.537 the one who put that person into power. And so 0:04:16.577 --> 0:04:19.937 you don't really have a one singular person. You have 0:04:20.017 --> 0:04:23.097 a distributed network of people who are kind of in 0:04:23.257 --> 0:04:26.737 theory responsible for the action, but aren't really always able 0:04:26.777 --> 0:04:29.017 to be held accountable, which is why you know, you 0:04:29.097 --> 0:04:31.417 might vote a guy out of office, maybe end up 0:04:31.417 --> 0:04:33.497 getting rid of a Joe Biden or whatever. But Joe 0:04:33.497 --> 0:04:36.097 Biden's not running the country. I mean, who are we 0:04:36.177 --> 0:04:38.897 kidding here, right, It's the guys behind Joe Biden. It's 0:04:38.897 --> 0:04:41.257 the people that you don't really have the ability to 0:04:41.257 --> 0:04:43.257 hold accountable. That are the ones who are going to 0:04:43.377 --> 0:04:45.777 be there once he's gone and still be making decisions 0:04:45.777 --> 0:04:48.097 in places like the deep state. And I mean this 0:04:48.697 --> 0:04:50.857 in the most general way, like I just want to 0:04:50.857 --> 0:04:53.217 know where you go with this. Who does run the 0:04:53.217 --> 0:04:57.337 country right now? So I think the big thing we 0:04:57.377 --> 0:05:01.017 have to understand is that really at this moment, our 0:05:01.057 --> 0:05:04.097 country is run by an oligarchy. I mean, we're run 0:05:04.577 --> 0:05:08.377 with the distributed system, and that system crosses many different disciplines. 0:05:08.417 --> 0:05:10.497 You do have people in the government of or that's 0:05:10.537 --> 0:05:14.737 the formal hand of power, but much of this power 0:05:14.857 --> 0:05:17.737 is also spread across what conservatives like to think of 0:05:17.777 --> 0:05:21.617 as the public private distinction. That public private distinction does 0:05:21.657 --> 0:05:24.257 a lot of work for people, but actually what really 0:05:24.297 --> 0:05:26.897 happens is that, as we've seen with things like the 0:05:26.897 --> 0:05:30.257 Twitter files, these private companies work hand in glove with 0:05:30.417 --> 0:05:35.137 government agencies and non government agencies all the time. An 0:05:35.137 --> 0:05:38.297 attempt to censor and control political opinion and make sure 0:05:38.297 --> 0:05:40.737 the right people get money, the right people get elected, 0:05:41.057 --> 0:05:43.617 the right kind of things are disseminated through all of 0:05:43.657 --> 0:05:48.137 our consistency making apparatus. And when that's happening, really the 0:05:48.217 --> 0:05:50.617 story is in charge at the end of the day, 0:05:51.057 --> 0:05:53.217 and so you know, it would be nice if you 0:05:53.217 --> 0:05:55.457 could point to one person and say, hey, this is 0:05:55.457 --> 0:05:58.497 the guy who's actually running things. But we really have 0:05:58.897 --> 0:06:03.497 is a feeling across a whole class of people in 0:06:04.097 --> 0:06:09.417 political Washington, the permanent bureaucracy, Corporate America, the media, who 0:06:09.457 --> 0:06:12.577 all have similar values, they all share similar goals, and 0:06:12.617 --> 0:06:15.337 they work together constantly to steer the country in a 0:06:15.377 --> 0:06:18.457 particular direction, even if there's not one guy handing out orders. 0:06:18.977 --> 0:06:23.377 Do you think enough of the country learned the appropriate 0:06:23.497 --> 0:06:28.617 lesson the very I would argue painful lesson about authoritarianism 0:06:29.137 --> 0:06:34.257 from the whole FAUCII COVID lockdown mass because for me 0:06:35.137 --> 0:06:37.137 the midterm elections, which I know there's a lot of 0:06:37.177 --> 0:06:40.017 things that people have been and can point too as 0:06:40.057 --> 0:06:43.697 to what happened there, I was like a single issue 0:06:43.777 --> 0:06:46.937 voter on that. I'm obviously somebody who's votes Republican. I'm 0:06:46.937 --> 0:06:50.697 a conservative, But even if the Republican Party had done 0:06:50.697 --> 0:06:52.937 what the Democrats did over the course of COVID, I 0:06:53.017 --> 0:06:54.777 honestly would have been a single issue voter on that. 0:06:54.817 --> 0:06:58.097 I felt it was so beyond what you could even 0:06:58.137 --> 0:07:01.737 ever expect anyone to do in this country, but they 0:07:01.777 --> 0:07:06.617 did it. What happened well, I think the vast majority 0:07:06.617 --> 0:07:09.737 of people, you know, in at least the political commentating sphere, 0:07:09.777 --> 0:07:12.177 you know, a lot of people, myself included, expected there'd 0:07:12.177 --> 0:07:14.777 be some kind of you know, backlash when it came 0:07:14.817 --> 0:07:17.377 to the midterms, and I think the truth is that 0:07:17.457 --> 0:07:20.097 a lot of people just kind of onboarded this now 0:07:20.137 --> 0:07:23.217 as part of life. I think, unfortunately, a large amount 0:07:23.217 --> 0:07:26.257 of the country is now more or less onboard with 0:07:26.337 --> 0:07:29.137 this level of manipulation. They probably can't do the full 0:07:29.217 --> 0:07:32.137 lockdown the way they did last time. They probably have 0:07:32.217 --> 0:07:34.737 to ease it in a little more next time. But 0:07:34.817 --> 0:07:36.297 I think you do have a lot of people who 0:07:36.337 --> 0:07:38.217 are willing to kind of go along with this. There 0:07:38.297 --> 0:07:41.417 are states like Florida that did, you know, push back 0:07:41.457 --> 0:07:45.017 against this, and in many ways they prospered because of it. Obviously, 0:07:45.017 --> 0:07:47.857 you have a large number of people who migrated down 0:07:47.897 --> 0:07:50.817 to Florida and kind of bolstered to Santis's power in 0:07:50.857 --> 0:07:54.377 the state due to the stance he took through COVID. 0:07:54.857 --> 0:07:57.497 But the downside of that, even though I think there 0:07:57.497 --> 0:07:59.897 are upsides, is all the people who didn't like what 0:08:00.017 --> 0:08:02.937 was happening in New York and all those other states. 0:08:03.057 --> 0:08:04.977 They're gone now there's no one left to push back. 0:08:05.857 --> 0:08:10.017 I'm one of them. I was a New Yorker born 0:08:10.057 --> 0:08:13.697 and raised New York City, Manhattan, went to Catholic school there, 0:08:13.857 --> 0:08:16.657 the whole thing, right, the whole nine yards. And I 0:08:16.697 --> 0:08:20.137 can tell you or in that it transitioned at some 0:08:20.217 --> 0:08:25.537 point from I can't believe how incompetent and outrageously wrong 0:08:25.657 --> 0:08:28.817 and thuggish the Democrat administration of the city is to 0:08:30.097 --> 0:08:32.457 ninety percent of my fellow New Yorkers are going along 0:08:32.497 --> 0:08:35.697 with this and they think it's fine, and they're actually helping. 0:08:35.777 --> 0:08:39.537 They were kind of the volunteer Stazi for MASK and 0:08:39.657 --> 0:08:43.017 COVID vaccine and all these other programs. And so I 0:08:43.137 --> 0:08:46.457 just for me, that was it done. And so I'm 0:08:46.497 --> 0:08:48.777 also now a Floridian. I know you were born in Florida. 0:08:48.777 --> 0:08:51.737 I'm a Floridian like many others that have fled. And 0:08:52.097 --> 0:08:55.177 I do think that this has resulted in changes that 0:08:55.217 --> 0:08:58.777 we're just beginning to understand for what this means, not 0:08:58.817 --> 0:09:02.017 just from the for the electoral map, but also for 0:09:02.097 --> 0:09:05.217 the country and which states are going to be leaders 0:09:05.297 --> 0:09:07.377 going forward of the movement. I think New York and 0:09:07.457 --> 0:09:15.697 California are now on trajectory of almost inevitable catastrophe, particularly California. 0:09:15.737 --> 0:09:17.257 But I want to come back to that in a second. 0:09:17.657 --> 0:09:19.577 I've got a whole bunch more questions we're talking to 0:09:19.697 --> 0:09:23.177 Orin McIntyre. He's at the Blaze. 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If you could get conservatives forget 0:10:53.257 --> 0:10:56.937 about the if you get conservatives to focus more on 0:10:56.937 --> 0:11:00.657 one thing right now in the country, what would it 0:11:00.697 --> 0:11:05.297 be and why? Yeah, That's a really tough one because 0:11:05.617 --> 0:11:09.737 the battle is so multifaceted right now, I guess one 0:11:09.737 --> 0:11:14.337 of the things I would ask conservatives to understand is 0:11:14.817 --> 0:11:17.737 kind of where victories come from. Right, we look at 0:11:17.817 --> 0:11:20.177 so many of these elections, We look at so many 0:11:20.337 --> 0:11:24.857 promises that people in the GOP and elsewhere make over 0:11:24.897 --> 0:11:26.897 and over again the same thing, and people, you know, 0:11:26.937 --> 0:11:28.497 look and they look at the results and they say, 0:11:28.577 --> 0:11:30.617 how do we keep moving to the left? How do 0:11:30.657 --> 0:11:33.937 we keep winning elections in these different areas? But nothing 0:11:34.017 --> 0:11:37.457 actually gets done? And then you look at something like 0:11:37.617 --> 0:11:41.137 Elon Musk buying Twitter, right, and you know, he's not perfect. 0:11:41.177 --> 0:11:43.697 I have my own problems with Elon Musk, but at 0:11:43.697 --> 0:11:46.497 the end of the day, his purchase of Twitter did 0:11:46.697 --> 0:11:50.897 way more to destroy parts of the progressive narrative and 0:11:51.057 --> 0:11:54.017 break the stranglehold and the obvious station. They were all 0:11:54.097 --> 0:11:56.337 to a bring to what was happening with things like 0:11:56.537 --> 0:12:00.377 government and you know, the FBI requesting censorship. That's a 0:12:00.457 --> 0:12:03.977 much more powerful blow than you know, some piece of 0:12:04.097 --> 0:12:06.497 legislation that never gets to enforce somewhere. And that's not 0:12:06.537 --> 0:12:09.057 to say that, of course, laws and elections don't matter. 0:12:09.137 --> 0:12:12.817 They do, but understanding that victories don't just come through 0:12:12.977 --> 0:12:15.937 getting another Republican elected, because if there's not an apparatus 0:12:15.937 --> 0:12:18.417 to hold these people accountable, and if there's not other 0:12:18.457 --> 0:12:23.097 avenues on which you're making gains culturally, in the business field, 0:12:23.137 --> 0:12:25.337 in the law field, all over the place, then you're 0:12:25.337 --> 0:12:27.937 going to end up losing. It's not just one point 0:12:28.017 --> 0:12:31.617 of a battle. It's an entire war, and you have 0:12:31.657 --> 0:12:33.417 to actually look at the whole field. You can't just 0:12:33.497 --> 0:12:36.177 focus on well, eventually I'll just get Donald Trump or 0:12:36.257 --> 0:12:38.697 run to Santa Selected and they'll sweep in and fix everything. 0:12:38.777 --> 0:12:40.897 That's not how it's going to work. There are there 0:12:40.897 --> 0:12:43.777 are no silver bullets. I think conservatives have started to 0:12:43.817 --> 0:12:46.537 see that a little bit more, and I think a 0:12:46.617 --> 0:12:50.417 part of that or in would be the recognition that 0:12:50.737 --> 0:12:55.937 our side seem to think that we could either seed 0:12:56.697 --> 0:13:00.057 the platforms and institutions of power and influence on the 0:13:00.057 --> 0:13:03.817 other side entirely, things like academia, or we could just 0:13:04.137 --> 0:13:08.297 fight for some scrap that will call neutral space. And 0:13:08.377 --> 0:13:11.057 increasingly I think there's been an awareness of one. If 0:13:11.137 --> 0:13:14.097 you give the other side all the institutions and levers 0:13:14.137 --> 0:13:17.057 of power, you're going to lose irrespective of this is 0:13:17.097 --> 0:13:23.017 even outside of elections, right, if they have academia, Hollywood, news, media, 0:13:23.337 --> 0:13:26.057 law these days, by the way, law schools are just 0:13:26.177 --> 0:13:30.297 churning out, you know, woke activists with jds, all these things, 0:13:30.337 --> 0:13:34.417 all these different places. You know, the the dominance that 0:13:34.457 --> 0:13:36.937 the left has even had in the nonprofit sector, I 0:13:36.937 --> 0:13:40.177 mean areas, it's think, what, of course there's enormous dominance 0:13:40.377 --> 0:13:44.417 and nonprofits and you know, different aspects of giving. Do 0:13:44.457 --> 0:13:46.337 you think that there's been an awakening? Do you think 0:13:46.337 --> 0:13:49.857 that there's enough of a sense that we have to 0:13:49.897 --> 0:13:53.657 compete on many many platforms, battlefields whatever you want to 0:13:53.697 --> 0:13:56.137 call them, or else, they're just going to keep getting 0:13:56.177 --> 0:13:58.057 their way one way or the other as the country 0:13:58.217 --> 0:14:02.457 moves on. I think there is some awareness of that now, 0:14:02.497 --> 0:14:05.737 but it's still an uphill battle. Conservatives still have again 0:14:05.817 --> 0:14:10.457 this idea of really limited government, and you know it's 0:14:10.537 --> 0:14:12.777 that's the key, as long as you don't get the government, 0:14:12.817 --> 0:14:14.537 as long as long as you don't try to impose 0:14:14.537 --> 0:14:17.017 your will and someone live and let live. Right, And 0:14:17.137 --> 0:14:19.657 this sounds great in theory, it's kind of what we 0:14:19.737 --> 0:14:22.857 all want. Yeah, the neutral space, yea neutral space, sure, 0:14:22.937 --> 0:14:25.657 exactly right, right. But but but the key is, like, 0:14:26.017 --> 0:14:29.697 there is no value neutral government institution. There's no value 0:14:29.737 --> 0:14:33.857 neutral institution period And a lot of conservatives or people 0:14:33.857 --> 0:14:35.897 who have kind of been schufed out of the progressive 0:14:36.097 --> 0:14:38.537 movement want to believe that we can return to some 0:14:38.617 --> 0:14:41.417 kind of mythical time in like the nineties, where there 0:14:41.577 --> 0:14:44.457 was no influence on these kind of things. But the 0:14:44.457 --> 0:14:47.097 truth is that someone's values were always being pushed, someone's 0:14:47.137 --> 0:14:49.977 agenda was always being pushed, And we've got to recognize 0:14:49.977 --> 0:14:53.177 that has the left gotten crazier in the last five 0:14:53.257 --> 0:14:56.897 years faster? Obviously it's moved further left, But has the 0:14:56.937 --> 0:15:03.017 acceleration been something that you feel is noticeably at more 0:15:03.017 --> 0:15:05.937 of a breakneck pace? Or are we just waking up 0:15:05.977 --> 0:15:08.777 to the project that they've been engaged in, say on 0:15:08.857 --> 0:15:12.097 gender rights and the train gender issue for the last 0:15:12.137 --> 0:15:14.217 twenty years, But now we're at like that, we're you know, 0:15:14.257 --> 0:15:16.057 we're defending on our own five yard line, do you 0:15:16.057 --> 0:15:17.937 know what I mean? Is it have they just gone 0:15:17.937 --> 0:15:20.097 for it much more aggressively in the last few years, 0:15:20.697 --> 0:15:23.057 or are we just realizing now this has been pushed 0:15:23.337 --> 0:15:27.337 and we're basically at the final stages. I think it's both. 0:15:27.657 --> 0:15:29.697 I think you're right that we are on the five 0:15:29.977 --> 0:15:31.257 yard line and all of a sudden people are like, 0:15:31.297 --> 0:15:33.257 oh man, are we losing this thing? What's going on? Right? 0:15:33.977 --> 0:15:36.537 I think it has been a very long march for 0:15:36.577 --> 0:15:39.257 the institutions. I think this battle has been ongoing for 0:15:39.297 --> 0:15:42.337 a very long time. But it is also accelerating because 0:15:42.337 --> 0:15:44.897 the left feels like it has this complete hegemony over 0:15:44.937 --> 0:15:47.617 the institutions and they can just kind of flex. They 0:15:47.617 --> 0:15:50.897 don't have to really have ideological justifications anymore. Then it 0:15:50.977 --> 0:15:52.937 really need to have any kind of you know, lip 0:15:53.017 --> 0:15:56.017 service to free speech or the neutral battlefield or anything 0:15:56.017 --> 0:15:58.417 like that. They're in the right. They have the moral power, 0:15:58.497 --> 0:16:01.977 they have the the you know, functional power. They don't 0:16:02.017 --> 0:16:04.657 really need to pretend anymore that they're playing this game 0:16:04.697 --> 0:16:06.817 so they can go faster. But the battle has been 0:16:06.857 --> 0:16:08.897 there for a very long time. I do think that 0:16:08.977 --> 0:16:11.177 we see that what you just mentioned about how they 0:16:11.257 --> 0:16:14.377 just do stuff that is well, it's obviously true with 0:16:14.457 --> 0:16:17.817 It was most apparent with the social media companies because 0:16:17.857 --> 0:16:21.337 I still remember ten years ago when I first got 0:16:21.337 --> 0:16:23.057 into this game at the Blaze. By the way, we'll 0:16:23.097 --> 0:16:24.457 come back and talk about him. Did you know that 0:16:24.457 --> 0:16:27.937 I'm a Blaze alumni. I'm one of the Blaze original gangsters. 0:16:27.977 --> 0:16:30.337 Like I go way back to the beginning when Glenn 0:16:30.857 --> 0:16:33.177 was talking about this thing he's going to create called 0:16:33.217 --> 0:16:35.337 the Blaze, and anyway, we'll talk about that a little bit, 0:16:36.337 --> 0:16:40.217 but I remember that the notion that Twitter would take 0:16:40.257 --> 0:16:44.297 action against people based upon just not liking what was said. 0:16:45.497 --> 0:16:49.097 I mean that that was it was offensive to Twitter executives. 0:16:49.097 --> 0:16:51.417 I mean, we have there're a free speech company. And 0:16:51.457 --> 0:16:55.737 then it turned into oh, well, we just make mistakes 0:16:55.737 --> 0:16:57.857 sometimes and we're just trying to keep people safe and 0:16:57.897 --> 0:17:00.137 this is about safety, and the mistakes seemed to go 0:17:00.217 --> 0:17:03.737 and get conservatives only, but it's really about safety. And then, 0:17:03.857 --> 0:17:05.777 as we know, in the ear of trumpet, turned into 0:17:05.937 --> 0:17:07.817 shut up, what are you going to do about it? 0:17:07.977 --> 0:17:10.297 And I think that's been actually really clarifying. I think 0:17:10.337 --> 0:17:12.817 people have seen, oh, that's what they do when they 0:17:12.817 --> 0:17:16.217 can get away with it. Yeah, the left never really 0:17:16.257 --> 0:17:19.377 cared about free speech, right. These people always had an agenda. 0:17:19.417 --> 0:17:21.857 They had a very specific plan for what society should 0:17:21.897 --> 0:17:24.377 be in all of those plans were really terrible. I mean, 0:17:24.377 --> 0:17:26.977 the left is a movement that is built on the 0:17:27.057 --> 0:17:32.857 destruction of healthy hierarchies and natural boundaries and social order. 0:17:32.937 --> 0:17:35.977 And so they want to break down things like family. 0:17:36.017 --> 0:17:38.697 They want to break things down like faith, They want 0:17:38.737 --> 0:17:40.777 to break things down like property rights. This is all 0:17:40.817 --> 0:17:42.377 stuff they want to take down. And they haven't been 0:17:42.417 --> 0:17:45.417 shy about this for many decades. But you know, even 0:17:45.417 --> 0:17:48.337 though they had these really dangerous ideas free speech right, 0:17:48.377 --> 0:17:50.657 you had to hear them out. And so they use 0:17:50.777 --> 0:17:53.817 that as a tool to enter institutions and work their 0:17:53.817 --> 0:17:55.977 way in an acquire power. But now that they have 0:17:56.057 --> 0:17:57.977 that power, they're not dumb enough to leave that on 0:17:57.977 --> 0:17:59.737 the ground so someone else can pick it up and 0:17:59.777 --> 0:18:02.377 wield it against them. They're the ones in the citadel now, 0:18:02.417 --> 0:18:04.057 and they're definitely going to make sure that you don't 0:18:04.097 --> 0:18:06.977 have the option to push back. Is already where where 0:18:07.017 --> 0:18:12.857 you think conservatism is is losing the battle for hearts 0:18:12.857 --> 0:18:15.657 and minds, where in particular, you just say, how are 0:18:15.697 --> 0:18:18.617 we not doing better on that one? How is it 0:18:18.697 --> 0:18:22.337 possible that we're not just trouncing them in the realm 0:18:22.337 --> 0:18:24.297 of public opinion on this issue because of how it's 0:18:24.297 --> 0:18:27.577 being presented or how the politicians or the party are 0:18:27.577 --> 0:18:32.297 making the case. Yeah, I mean, there's so many cases 0:18:32.337 --> 0:18:35.577 where the framing from conservatives is just horrible. I mean, 0:18:35.617 --> 0:18:39.897 for instance, you'll notice that conservatives are always willing to 0:18:39.897 --> 0:18:42.977 talk about like how the Democrats are the real races, right, 0:18:43.017 --> 0:18:46.137 Like this is the constant refrain from Oh it's it's really, 0:18:46.137 --> 0:18:47.417 at the end of the day, it's the left that 0:18:48.137 --> 0:18:50.977 hate minorities or whatever, and that just plays so poorly 0:18:50.977 --> 0:18:53.817 because the left owns the public definition of these ideas. 0:18:53.977 --> 0:18:56.657 I mean, whether you believe that you know, racism has 0:18:56.657 --> 0:18:58.777 a very specific definition or not. I think most of 0:18:58.857 --> 0:19:01.217 us do. But it doesn't really matter. Because all the 0:19:01.257 --> 0:19:03.977 people who actually cancel people, all the people actually deal 0:19:04.017 --> 0:19:07.377 out damage to people, get their bank accounts shut down, 0:19:07.537 --> 0:19:09.937 get people taken off of jobs, that kind of thing, 0:19:10.497 --> 0:19:12.537 they're on the left. They're the ones that actually control 0:19:12.657 --> 0:19:14.617 this thing. And so when you try to wield the 0:19:14.657 --> 0:19:17.617 same weapon of the left back at them, what you 0:19:17.657 --> 0:19:20.417 do is you end up reinforcing their frame. And we 0:19:20.457 --> 0:19:22.657 do this on all kinds of issues. Oh, at the 0:19:22.737 --> 0:19:24.377 end of the day, it's the left. I really believe this, 0:19:25.217 --> 0:19:27.697 and it just ends up giving your enemy more powerful 0:19:27.697 --> 0:19:29.857 weapons to continue to use because they're the ones that 0:19:29.897 --> 0:19:32.937 actually own the mechanism that punish people about us. I 0:19:32.977 --> 0:19:35.017 totally agree with that. I would also I would add 0:19:35.057 --> 0:19:40.457 into this. I always say it's fine to call out hypocrisy, 0:19:40.537 --> 0:19:43.457 but it's a little bit like when people tell the 0:19:45.057 --> 0:19:48.017 guys the thugs that go into a Dwayne Read in 0:19:48.057 --> 0:19:51.697 San Francisco and fill a bag full of stolen stuff, 0:19:51.737 --> 0:19:55.657 they're like, hey, you shouldn't take that. They don't care. 0:19:56.097 --> 0:19:58.897 And when we tell the left they're being hypocritical, it's 0:19:58.937 --> 0:20:01.457 fine to call it out. I mean, and we're going to, 0:20:02.137 --> 0:20:04.617 but I don't think we should confuse the left is 0:20:04.697 --> 0:20:07.817 hypocritical on a whole range of issues with we're going 0:20:07.857 --> 0:20:10.977 to shame them by calling out the hippoc Hypocritical is 0:20:10.977 --> 0:20:13.537 who they are. It's actually about it's about hierarchy, it's 0:20:13.537 --> 0:20:15.937 about power structure. The whole point to what you're saying 0:20:15.937 --> 0:20:20.257 about racism is that they get to say it's not 0:20:20.337 --> 0:20:23.857 even possible, for example, to be for there to be 0:20:23.937 --> 0:20:27.937 racism against white people because of power hierarchies, Like they'll 0:20:27.937 --> 0:20:30.297 actually make that claim, which would seem to undermine the 0:20:30.377 --> 0:20:33.857 very definition of racism. Yeah, I mean, Sheila and Jackson 0:20:33.977 --> 0:20:38.377 Lee just introduced a bill basically trying to specifically ban 0:20:38.497 --> 0:20:40.977 the political speech of white people. You know, I mean, 0:20:41.017 --> 0:20:43.697 come on, who are we kidding here? Right, Obviously that's 0:20:43.977 --> 0:20:48.377 racism by any definition, specifically targeting the speech of one race. 0:20:48.777 --> 0:20:51.497 But they're left don't care. They don't even blink. In fact, 0:20:51.577 --> 0:20:54.537 like you said, they've worked this ideology of you know, 0:20:54.617 --> 0:20:57.057 there is no such thing as racism against white people. 0:20:57.137 --> 0:21:00.497 And basically, like everything they talk about, they give lectures 0:21:00.537 --> 0:21:05.017 on this to multibillion dollar corporations and academia. Right, So 0:21:05.057 --> 0:21:08.777 this is like a key part of the leftist you know, contradiction. 0:21:08.857 --> 0:21:11.097 But they don't care because, like you said, it's about 0:21:11.097 --> 0:21:14.017 the hierarchy. They get to wield the definition, they get 0:21:14.057 --> 0:21:16.337