WEBVTT - Is Grad School for Me? with UBC Educator Rob Kim 0:00:00.720 --> 0:00:08.320 LinkedIn News. I think that if we're going to address 0:00:08.400 --> 0:00:12.960 the topic of this is an expensive degree, you need 0:00:13.000 --> 0:00:14.920 to make it work for you. Okay, you don't need 0:00:14.920 --> 0:00:17.640 to be out here going to school with one hundred 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:20.200 and fifteen thousand dollars student debt taking on a thirty 0:00:20.200 --> 0:00:22.760 thousand dollars job. I'm so sorry, booboo, go get some 0:00:22.800 --> 0:00:27.240 oysters you need. Yes, but seriously, like, you got to 0:00:27.280 --> 0:00:29.440 make it work for you. Would I do it again? 0:00:30.120 --> 0:00:33.559 I don't know, Little Spicy, I don't know. 0:00:33.760 --> 0:00:35.839 Should we leave it there? Should we get into it? 0:00:36.680 --> 0:00:37.640 I think we get into it. 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:38.760 I think we get into it. 0:00:40.720 --> 0:00:43.680 From LinkedIn News and I heard podcasts. This is Let's 0:00:43.680 --> 0:00:46.560 Talk Offline, a show about what it takes to thrive 0:00:46.720 --> 0:00:51.120 in the early years of your career without sacrificing your values, sanity, 0:00:51.360 --> 0:00:53.960 or sleep. I'm Gianna Prudente. 0:00:54.000 --> 0:00:58.040 And I'm Jamaie Jackson Gadsden. So grad school should you go? 0:00:58.560 --> 0:01:01.240 Should you skip it? You're all of us, at some 0:01:01.280 --> 0:01:03.720 point in our careers have considered if going to grad 0:01:03.760 --> 0:01:06.600 school is actually worth it. I mean, it's a really 0:01:06.600 --> 0:01:09.840 big decision. But yeah, there are plenty of benefits to 0:01:09.880 --> 0:01:10.959 pursuing grad school. 0:01:11.520 --> 0:01:14.399 But in today's market, there can be a lot of 0:01:14.480 --> 0:01:18.920 cons too. You're probably thinking about the cost. You're asking yourself, 0:01:19.040 --> 0:01:21.120 what would I gain if I went back to school, 0:01:21.560 --> 0:01:25.080 or wondering if you even need another degree. Well, we're 0:01:25.080 --> 0:01:26.959 going to break it all down and help you figure 0:01:27.000 --> 0:01:29.120 out whether grad school is the right move for you. 0:01:34.240 --> 0:01:35.840 So when I think about the decision to go to 0:01:35.840 --> 0:01:38.560 grad school, there's a lot to figure out. 0:01:38.360 --> 0:01:40.720 To actually make the decision yes or no should I go. 0:01:41.560 --> 0:01:43.280 So later on in the show, we're going to bring 0:01:43.360 --> 0:01:46.000 on career educator Rob Kim, who's going to talk to 0:01:46.120 --> 0:01:48.400 us about what we need to figure out before making 0:01:48.440 --> 0:01:51.600 that big decision. But before we talk to Rob, Jamay, 0:01:51.720 --> 0:01:54.280 let's start the convo by talking about the pros and 0:01:54.320 --> 0:01:57.320 cons of grad school as somebody who's gone to grad school. 0:01:57.120 --> 0:01:59.120 Right, Yes, yeah, I have a lot of opinions. But 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.240 let's just take like an aerial view of grad school. 0:02:02.280 --> 0:02:04.920 Zoom right, let's a little zoom out. So there's a 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.160 number of pros I mean to start. You know, having 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:10.440 a higher education degree does make you more competitive in 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:14.760 your field. You also can gain specialized knowledge and skills, 0:02:14.760 --> 0:02:17.440 which is always great no matter what industry you're in 0:02:17.680 --> 0:02:20.880 there's always more to learn. Another pro that I will 0:02:20.880 --> 0:02:24.560 add is if you are a student of the world, right, 0:02:24.600 --> 0:02:26.960 if you just love to learn, Like, there's nothing like 0:02:27.000 --> 0:02:30.240 being in a classroom setting, whether it's virtual or in person, 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:33.280 that I think you can just benefit from a number 0:02:33.320 --> 0:02:35.600 of other things, like, for instance, you know, there's this 0:02:35.720 --> 0:02:38.960 idea that as you continue to upskill, you also are 0:02:39.000 --> 0:02:41.399 putting yourself in a position to make more money. Yeah, 0:02:41.400 --> 0:02:43.680 and so you know, there's this idea that going to 0:02:43.720 --> 0:02:47.200 grad school or getting you know, post secondary educations will 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:49.400 allow you to make more money. And then the last 0:02:49.440 --> 0:02:51.240 thing I will just say as a pro is that 0:02:51.280 --> 0:02:53.400 you do get to build community and networking. You know, 0:02:53.400 --> 0:02:56.239 when I was in grad school, we actually transition into 0:02:56.280 --> 0:02:59.080 a fully remote setting because the pandemic was happening. 0:02:59.440 --> 0:03:01.919 So I don't know, as you went to grad school recently, Yeah, 0:03:01.960 --> 0:03:02.799 I went to grad. 0:03:02.600 --> 0:03:08.000 School in twenty twenty career nineteen eighteen. I love that 0:03:08.120 --> 0:03:12.640 something I'm going backwards something like that, right, No, literally, 0:03:12.680 --> 0:03:15.560 no concept. But it was really nice because then you 0:03:15.560 --> 0:03:17.280 had people who you can lean on, you can talk 0:03:17.360 --> 0:03:20.120 to that kind of kept you in routine, right, and 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:22.080 so like those are some of the pros. On the 0:03:22.080 --> 0:03:25.320 flip side, there are equally as many cons. I think 0:03:25.360 --> 0:03:28.280 that you should think about. First of all, we have 0:03:28.360 --> 0:03:31.280 to talk about the costs. It is expensive. Yeah, I 0:03:31.280 --> 0:03:32.840 say that as I literally just bought like an eight 0:03:32.919 --> 0:03:36.040 hundred dollars bag. I saw it, I saw with her 0:03:36.040 --> 0:03:39.160 own eye. But I'm serious. You know, grad school can 0:03:39.200 --> 0:03:43.080 be really, really, really expensive, and you also risk incurring 0:03:43.160 --> 0:03:45.640 long term debt. I mean nowadays, you know, with student 0:03:45.680 --> 0:03:48.480 loans picking back up, like, it's a lot for people, 0:03:48.960 --> 0:03:51.840 and sometimes you have to think if the reward outweighs 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:53.160 the risk. Yeah. 0:03:53.200 --> 0:03:55.880 I think that's what's really hard too, because I'm like, 0:03:56.640 --> 0:03:57.760 is it gonna pay off or not? 0:03:57.960 --> 0:04:00.200 You know, like I want a distinct answer. I make 0:04:00.240 --> 0:04:02.280 this big investment. Yeah, I'm gonna tell you my rule 0:04:02.320 --> 0:04:05.240 of thumb in a second about that. But I definitely 0:04:05.320 --> 0:04:07.720 agree that that is sort of the biggest hindrance I 0:04:07.720 --> 0:04:11.320 think for people. Another one is time. Right on the 0:04:11.360 --> 0:04:13.840 one hand, you know, you think, oh, hey, do I 0:04:13.880 --> 0:04:16.320 need to go to grad school right after I've graduated, 0:04:16.360 --> 0:04:18.680 because that's when you really have the time. But then 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:20.720 you also are like, but should I actually get out 0:04:20.720 --> 0:04:23.200 into the workforce make some money? First and then go back. 0:04:23.240 --> 0:04:25.200 But then how do I juggle having a full nine 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:25.560 to five? 0:04:26.000 --> 0:04:26.479 Who? Girl? 0:04:26.720 --> 0:04:29.240 There were people in my program who had kids who 0:04:29.279 --> 0:04:31.840 are married, like I wasn't married at the time. I 0:04:31.880 --> 0:04:33.720 was like, how are you doing all these things and 0:04:33.760 --> 0:04:36.680 caring for yourself? Like this is a lot. And then 0:04:36.760 --> 0:04:39.839 another thing is you might not even need an advanced degree. 0:04:40.200 --> 0:04:43.440 I think it's really interesting now the conversation's happening around 0:04:43.480 --> 0:04:46.160 how people are just getting real world experience and they're 0:04:46.200 --> 0:04:49.159 applying that. I mean, even I think about my job 0:04:49.200 --> 0:04:51.760 at LinkedIn. There are a number of my coworkers who 0:04:51.839 --> 0:04:55.560 don't have a graduate degree and exactly right, and so 0:04:55.640 --> 0:04:57.680 it's like it's almost this idea of like you will 0:04:57.680 --> 0:05:00.720 always end up where you're supposed to be anyway. So 0:05:00.760 --> 0:05:02.240 those are a couple of things that I think we 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.080 have to look out from the pros and the cons. 0:05:04.080 --> 0:05:06.559 But gee, you're talking to gen Z all the time, 0:05:06.920 --> 0:05:08.880 what are sort of the ideas and trends that they're 0:05:08.880 --> 0:05:11.359 coming up with as far as like going to grad school? 0:05:11.480 --> 0:05:13.320 Is it a thing? Is it a thing? 0:05:13.400 --> 0:05:13.720 Is it not? 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:14.800 Is it canceled enough? 0:05:15.480 --> 0:05:15.760 You know? 0:05:16.040 --> 0:05:18.719 I actually was curious, like what the let's talk offline 0:05:18.720 --> 0:05:21.359 community was thinking about grad school. So I put up 0:05:21.360 --> 0:05:23.719 a pull in my profile asking gen zers to weigh 0:05:23.800 --> 0:05:26.880 in on, like, what's the one thing that's holding you 0:05:26.920 --> 0:05:30.000 back from going to grad school if you're considering it, 0:05:30.440 --> 0:05:35.000 And unsurprisingly, the number one factor is the financial cost, 0:05:35.080 --> 0:05:38.240 which you mentioned, and then that was followed by this 0:05:38.360 --> 0:05:39.920 idea of like I don't know if it's going to 0:05:39.960 --> 0:05:42.800 pay off, I'm not sure I need it, and then 0:05:42.839 --> 0:05:46.040 the last one was the timing. So I think people 0:05:46.080 --> 0:05:50.240 are definitely considering it, but that affordability aspect is always 0:05:50.240 --> 0:05:53.359 going to be a barrier to entry, and as like 0:05:53.440 --> 0:05:56.120 you were mentioning, like, as the cost of living just 0:05:56.240 --> 0:05:59.479 continues to rise and rise, young people feel like they're 0:05:59.480 --> 0:06:02.400 facing more financial barriers and. 0:06:02.640 --> 0:06:04.919 As a result, you're likely to forego higher education. 0:06:05.040 --> 0:06:07.160 And you know, I see a lot online now about 0:06:07.200 --> 0:06:09.760 gen z going to trade school and kind of embracing 0:06:10.080 --> 0:06:13.120 other ways to upscale than traditional education. 0:06:13.400 --> 0:06:15.400 Yeah. I love that a lot, because the same way 0:06:15.440 --> 0:06:18.120 as we can talk about like nonlinear career paths, I 0:06:18.160 --> 0:06:21.320 think that a lot of people are taking nonlinear education paths, 0:06:21.440 --> 0:06:22.960 and I think at the end of the day, you 0:06:23.080 --> 0:06:24.560 have to figure out what works for you, and I 0:06:24.560 --> 0:06:26.479 think like the data is starting to back that up 0:06:26.520 --> 0:06:29.880 as well. But we cannot, you know, underestimate the fact 0:06:29.880 --> 0:06:34.360 that people want this. It's just expensive. So I'm not 0:06:34.440 --> 0:06:37.800 going to ask Gianna you, my gen Zier, have you 0:06:37.839 --> 0:06:39.279 ever considered going to grad school? 0:06:39.480 --> 0:06:44.680 Okay, So I have my experience with grad school is 0:06:45.360 --> 0:06:47.520 you know, I've seen some of my friends go. So 0:06:47.680 --> 0:06:50.520 a few friends have gone to grad school right after 0:06:50.640 --> 0:06:54.560 undergrad because what they studied, you know, they decided, ooh, 0:06:54.600 --> 0:06:56.280 I'm not pursuing this. I'm going to go to grad school, 0:06:56.279 --> 0:06:58.400 get a different degree, and then go into my career. 0:06:58.960 --> 0:07:01.400 And I think at the time I entered the workforce, 0:07:01.440 --> 0:07:02.839 a lot of people in my age were going to 0:07:02.880 --> 0:07:06.320 grad school immediately, kind of to shelter in place while 0:07:06.360 --> 0:07:11.280 the economy worked its way out. But me, personally, I've 0:07:11.320 --> 0:07:14.440 decided against it for now because I'm honestly not sure 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:17.080 what I would study. So right now I'm not too sure. 0:07:17.120 --> 0:07:20.480 But I would love one day to be an adjunct professor. 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:22.880 So I'm assuming I'll need to get another degree to 0:07:22.920 --> 0:07:23.600 be able to do that. 0:07:24.920 --> 0:07:25.360 I don't know. 0:07:25.640 --> 0:07:27.520 Yeah, but I'm all over the place. I'm like, should 0:07:27.520 --> 0:07:29.320 I go to law school. Should I get my MBA. 0:07:29.160 --> 0:07:31.400 And you deserve to do those should you be a baker? 0:07:32.600 --> 0:07:34.000 But I want to do everything. 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:35.680 Yeah, the real one is like I really want to 0:07:35.680 --> 0:07:37.840 go to culinary school or like patry school. So and 0:07:37.880 --> 0:07:41.080 you can do all the above, yeah, but nonetheless it's 0:07:41.120 --> 0:07:45.520 all expensive. So if somebody's trying to finance my second degree, 0:07:45.960 --> 0:07:47.560 let me know, reach out to me on LinkedIn. 0:07:47.920 --> 0:07:50.600 I was gonna say, is someone gonna match Gianna's financial 0:07:50.600 --> 0:07:52.160 free get the money? 0:07:52.240 --> 0:07:55.640 So okay, but now I want to know your experience 0:07:55.640 --> 0:07:57.560 with grad school. So you went not too long ago, 0:07:57.960 --> 0:08:03.320 right before the pandemic, and you studied the business of fashion, right, yes. 0:08:03.200 --> 0:08:04.960 So let's take a step back. So I went to 0:08:05.000 --> 0:08:09.080 grad school about four years after I graduated undergrad. So 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.400 you know, I took the time, I got the world 0:08:11.400 --> 0:08:14.280 world experience, and I started saying, okay, well, what programs 0:08:14.280 --> 0:08:17.080 are out there that match where I'm at right now. 0:08:17.560 --> 0:08:19.080 At that time, I was still doing a lot of 0:08:19.120 --> 0:08:21.320 reporting in the fashion and beauty space, and so I 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:23.520 was like, it would be great to figure out some 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:27.040 skills that can apply to this industry. But I did 0:08:27.040 --> 0:08:31.239 not want to go so niche that I siloed myself 0:08:31.280 --> 0:08:34.360 from other opportunities because I've always known I'm going to 0:08:34.440 --> 0:08:37.920 do other things. So I ended up studying at lam 0:08:37.960 --> 0:08:41.720 College here in New York. I got an MPs, which 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:43.680 is a little bit different than in the Masters of Arts, 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.800 and MPs is a Master of Professional Studies. Essentially, what 0:08:46.800 --> 0:08:49.360 it does is it combines the focused study of your 0:08:49.400 --> 0:08:52.480 traditional grad degrees like an M or an MS, but 0:08:52.520 --> 0:08:56.720 then you also started getting specialized industry specific skills. So 0:08:56.760 --> 0:08:59.200 when I tell people that I have my MPs in 0:08:59.280 --> 0:09:02.440 Business of Fashion, everyone focuses on the fashion part, right, 0:09:02.520 --> 0:09:04.840 but really you can nix that fashion part off. It's 0:09:04.920 --> 0:09:07.720 really like almost an NBA program. And that's exactly what 0:09:07.760 --> 0:09:09.880 I wanted to do, right, because I have this really 0:09:09.960 --> 0:09:12.600 unique opportunity where I get to sit sort of at 0:09:12.600 --> 0:09:15.319 the fork between what corporate life looks like, but then 0:09:15.320 --> 0:09:17.800 also what entrepreneurship life looks like. I knew that I 0:09:17.880 --> 0:09:19.760 was going to be able to not only help whatever 0:09:19.880 --> 0:09:24.160 company I worked for, but also me the biggest company 0:09:24.200 --> 0:09:27.280 of all, you know what I mean. So I also 0:09:27.520 --> 0:09:31.360 wanted to go to grad school to up my bag. Okay, 0:09:31.360 --> 0:09:33.880 I wanted to be able to say, yeah, it's Jamay 0:09:34.000 --> 0:09:36.960 Jackson MPs. Okay, put them a little letters behind my name. 0:09:37.040 --> 0:09:40.360 You want that embroidered on that bag. You to pay 0:09:40.440 --> 0:09:43.640 me for my goods and services, because you know, there 0:09:43.720 --> 0:09:45.959 was this idea that going to grad school would allow 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.080 you to command more money now here. It was my 0:09:49.160 --> 0:09:53.840 rule of thumb. I told myself, however much this master's 0:09:53.880 --> 0:09:56.760 degree is about to cost me, that is the number. 0:09:56.960 --> 0:09:59.600 Take that number and put it on my current salary. 0:09:59.679 --> 0:10:01.720 And then and that's what my next salary needed to be. 0:10:02.559 --> 0:10:05.720 I needed to pay for the degree. Yeah, and so 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:08.920 when I graduated and I started looking for new jobs, 0:10:09.160 --> 0:10:13.000 I wasn't looking for anything less than that number. And girl, 0:10:13.280 --> 0:10:16.520 you got it. I got it. I got it. But 0:10:16.559 --> 0:10:18.679 like I mean, I mean, remember we think about, like 0:10:18.720 --> 0:10:21.560 you know, manifestation, putting it out there and thinking on it. 0:10:21.840 --> 0:10:24.800 But I think that if we're going to address the 0:10:24.840 --> 0:10:29.319 topic of this is an expensive degree, you need to 0:10:29.360 --> 0:10:31.280 make it work for you. Okay, you don't need to 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:33.959 be out here going to school with one hundred and 0:10:34.000 --> 0:10:36.760 fifteen thousand dollars student debt taking on a thirty thousand 0:10:36.800 --> 0:10:39.599 dollars job. I'm so sorry, booboo, go get some oysters. 0:10:39.760 --> 0:10:43.679 You need, yes, but seriously, like you got to make 0:10:43.720 --> 0:10:46.480 it work for you? Would I do it again? I 0:10:46.520 --> 0:10:49.600 don't know, Little Spicy. 0:10:49.200 --> 0:10:52.080 I don't know it. 0:10:52.960 --> 0:10:54.520 I think we get into it. I think we get 0:10:54.559 --> 0:10:58.680 into it. I'm thankful, But again when I think about 0:10:59.400 --> 0:11:02.240 did I I need to do this to get where 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.880 I needed to get to? I don't know if that's 0:11:04.960 --> 0:11:09.080 the truth. Also, I don't work in the fashion industry anymore. 0:11:08.880 --> 0:11:10.760 So are you saying that like you wantn't do it 0:11:10.760 --> 0:11:14.120 again because of like, experience wise, it didn't you know, 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:17.560 help you get however, many steps ahead? But money wise 0:11:17.600 --> 0:11:18.000 it did? 0:11:18.160 --> 0:11:21.440 I think money wise yes, the upskilling, But also could 0:11:21.440 --> 0:11:24.400 I have done that through some online degrees? Could I 0:11:24.440 --> 0:11:27.880 have done that going to community college and taking like 0:11:28.000 --> 0:11:30.640 a couple of business courses? I mean, honestly, I think 0:11:30.640 --> 0:11:33.400 those are the two things that I ask myself often. 0:11:33.480 --> 0:11:37.400 It's like, girl, aside from the money, did you need 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.080 this to be able to do what you're doing? And 0:11:39.120 --> 0:11:43.679 then also, you know, I'm equally as squirrely as you like, 0:11:43.720 --> 0:11:45.360 I'm like, I want to do this today and then 0:11:45.360 --> 0:11:47.160 tomorrow I want to be a superhero, and then I 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:49.480 want to do this next year. Figuring out well, what 0:11:49.520 --> 0:11:51.560 am I going to study and put all this money behind? 0:11:51.600 --> 0:11:54.120 Can be the challenge. And don't get me wrong, my 0:11:54.280 --> 0:11:57.240 MPs helps me every single day out in business. I 0:11:57.280 --> 0:11:59.520 know how to negotiate contracts, I know how to work 0:11:59.520 --> 0:12:01.200 with brands. I know how to do all the things 0:12:01.200 --> 0:12:04.920 that helped me Jammy Jackson, the actor, the creative. But 0:12:05.600 --> 0:12:08.200 do did I need that to end up at LinkedIn? 0:12:08.400 --> 0:12:08.600 Yeah? 0:12:09.080 --> 0:12:11.080 Don't necessarily think I needed to do that. In fact, 0:12:11.120 --> 0:12:13.200 I know I didn't because there are people like you 0:12:13.240 --> 0:12:15.920 who are equally as talented who did not get that training. 0:12:16.000 --> 0:12:19.120 So it's a little bit of a double edged store. Plus, 0:12:19.160 --> 0:12:21.319 like I didn't have any debt coming out of undergrad, 0:12:22.000 --> 0:12:24.720 I have debt now, And I was like, oh gosh, 0:12:24.720 --> 0:12:26.679 this is what y'all be talking about. I don't like that. 0:12:27.000 --> 0:12:29.920 Welcome to the clubs to New net Just kidding. I'm 0:12:29.920 --> 0:12:30.840 gonna pay my student loans. 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:34.000 I appreciate your honesty. 0:12:35.320 --> 0:12:38.040 So is grad school in your future? If you're still 0:12:38.040 --> 0:12:40.600 on the fence, don't worry, because we're about to talk 0:12:40.640 --> 0:12:44.240 with career educator Rob Kim about how to decide whether 0:12:44.280 --> 0:12:57.520 grad schools for you. After the break. All right, guys, 0:12:57.600 --> 0:13:00.000 so we are back and we are talking all about 0:13:00.040 --> 0:13:02.800 out grad school and if that is your ministry, if 0:13:02.840 --> 0:13:05.400 you are called for it. Gianna and I could talk 0:13:05.400 --> 0:13:07.840 about this all day long, but of course we had 0:13:07.880 --> 0:13:11.760 to bring in a superstar who would help us answer 0:13:11.760 --> 0:13:14.360 this question this week? Gianna, who do we have this 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:15.280 week for the people? 0:13:15.760 --> 0:13:18.120 I am so excited to bring on Rob Kim. He 0:13:18.240 --> 0:13:21.920 is the Associate Director of Lifelong Learning at Alumni UBC 0:13:22.160 --> 0:13:25.840 working at the University of British Columbia. He's an educator 0:13:25.880 --> 0:13:29.200 and facilitator who believes in applying learning and development approaches 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:31.880 to support everyone's career and professional growth. 0:13:32.240 --> 0:13:33.880 Rob. Thanks so much for joining us. 0:13:34.040 --> 0:13:36.480 Thanks Rob, thanks for having me. First of all, I 0:13:36.520 --> 0:13:39.320 just want to say I've enjoyed listening to the podcast 0:13:39.360 --> 0:13:41.440 so far. I love how you're reaching out to gen Z. 0:13:42.320 --> 0:13:45.800 You two have a great, hilarious dynamic, so I really 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:46.640 happy to be here. 0:13:46.760 --> 0:13:47.600 Thank you so much. 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:51.720 We did not pay Rob to say that anyway. 0:13:51.880 --> 0:13:53.400 Thank you so much for coming on. 0:13:53.520 --> 0:13:55.319 Rob. We're so excited to chat to you about this 0:13:55.840 --> 0:13:58.120 topic today. And I want to start because you went 0:13:58.160 --> 0:13:59.600 to grad school, so I want to hear from your 0:13:59.600 --> 0:14:02.120 experience and when you went to earn your master's in 0:14:02.320 --> 0:14:03.520 educational and technology. 0:14:03.640 --> 0:14:06.280 What was going through your head? What encourage you to 0:14:06.320 --> 0:14:07.400 pursue that degree. 0:14:07.880 --> 0:14:10.520 Yeah, that's a great question. I mean to be honest, 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.560 it was probably about the money, like money first, and 0:14:14.600 --> 0:14:16.719 then like opportunity second. So I want to explain a 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:19.200 little bit though the money aspect. You know, I was 0:14:19.240 --> 0:14:21.920 teaching at the time, and if you had a master's 0:14:21.960 --> 0:14:24.000 you would actually go to a different pay scale, So 0:14:24.080 --> 0:14:26.640 I figured, like, why wouldn't I get paid more to 0:14:26.720 --> 0:14:30.200 do the same job, right? And then opportunity. I realized 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:32.360 I wanted to be a bit proactive with my career, 0:14:32.720 --> 0:14:35.680 and I was figuring that I might go into administration 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:37.920 down the line, so like a vice principal for instance, 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.400 and you know, in order to do that you needed 0:14:40.440 --> 0:14:43.000 your masters as a minimum. So those are the two 0:14:43.040 --> 0:14:45.840 big things, and one other thing. I was going to 0:14:45.880 --> 0:14:48.440 be married in a couple of years from them, and 0:14:48.480 --> 0:14:50.800 I figured it'd be easier time for me to go 0:14:50.840 --> 0:14:52.440 to school at that point. 0:14:52.800 --> 0:14:57.440 So what questions should other people be asking themselves if 0:14:57.440 --> 0:15:00.800 they're thinking about going to grad school? But then also, 0:15:00.840 --> 0:15:03.600 what are the signs that maybe grad school is not 0:15:03.720 --> 0:15:05.280 the right option for you? 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:07.680 You know, I think the questions obviously that you should 0:15:07.680 --> 0:15:09.600 be asking are going to be based on your situation. 0:15:09.760 --> 0:15:12.760 So when I worked with students around this, this is 0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:15.680 actually the part where you do a lot of written reflection, 0:15:15.920 --> 0:15:20.160 taking an inventory of your values, interests, and skills. And 0:15:20.440 --> 0:15:23.520 this step is really important for you to then figure 0:15:23.560 --> 0:15:26.360 out the type of questions you want to ask. You know, 0:15:26.400 --> 0:15:28.360 if you don't know where you're at, like how can 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.600 you know where you want to go? And then I 0:15:30.600 --> 0:15:33.760 think with that, I do this like three R framework 0:15:33.800 --> 0:15:38.040 to generate questions from that, and that would be research, reality, 0:15:38.560 --> 0:15:41.640 and ROI. So like the first is like research, you know, 0:15:42.280 --> 0:15:44.560 what do I know about these programs? Who can I 0:15:44.600 --> 0:15:47.600 talk to? So I mean like Gianna, for you, like 0:15:47.600 --> 0:15:50.400 with a journalistic background, like what kind of question would 0:15:50.400 --> 0:15:52.840 you ask when you're at that research phase if you're 0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.120 deciding go to grad school, Like what would that sound 0:15:55.160 --> 0:15:56.000 like for you? 0:15:55.400 --> 0:15:58.480 You know, I talked about this earlier because I said 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:00.640 to Jamay, like, I don't know what I would study 0:16:00.800 --> 0:16:03.160 if I went to grad school. So I would be 0:16:03.280 --> 0:16:06.680 curious from somebody who has a journalism background, who's surrounded 0:16:06.680 --> 0:16:10.239 by people who maybe went to journalism school for their masters, 0:16:10.360 --> 0:16:12.960 Like what would be the benefit to someone like me 0:16:13.440 --> 0:16:17.240 earning an advanced degree and what kind of areas of 0:16:17.240 --> 0:16:20.520 expertise could I explore in grad school that would complement 0:16:20.560 --> 0:16:21.440 my undergrad degree? 0:16:21.760 --> 0:16:24.360 And see, I think that's a perfect question, right, because 0:16:24.400 --> 0:16:27.200 I think sometimes when people are asking this, they think 0:16:27.240 --> 0:16:29.960 there's that Okay, this question is going to tell me everything. 0:16:30.000 --> 0:16:33.720 It's just more like curiosity figuring out where you are 0:16:33.760 --> 0:16:35.440 and where you can get to a little bit. So 0:16:35.560 --> 0:16:37.800 you know, that goes to that second, that reality. I 0:16:37.840 --> 0:16:40.880 remember talking to a student once they're thinking about grad school, 0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.840 and I just kind of asked, like, why do you 0:16:42.840 --> 0:16:45.600 want to go into this program? And they had a 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:49.520 real tough time articulating the answer, right, and the reality 0:16:49.520 --> 0:16:53.080 for this person, they were feeling lost, and therefore they thought, 0:16:53.120 --> 0:16:56.480 you know, let's continue to do something safe, which is school, 0:16:56.520 --> 0:16:59.600 Like I know this system, it's familiar to me in 0:16:59.640 --> 0:17:03.760 many way allow them to avoid reality, right, that reality 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.600 of going out finding a job. So I think asking 0:17:06.640 --> 0:17:09.520 those sort of questions what's actually real going on for 0:17:09.560 --> 0:17:11.960 you is really important. And then the third one I 0:17:11.960 --> 0:17:15.119 think about is the ROI right, that return on investment, 0:17:15.200 --> 0:17:18.359 So to me, that's time and money, right, Like, how 0:17:18.440 --> 0:17:21.080 much time can you dedicate for me? I was really 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.440 like clinical with my decision. I was like, I want 0:17:24.480 --> 0:17:28.160 to work full time. I can't not have money coming in, 0:17:28.560 --> 0:17:31.159 so what program is going to allow me to do that? 0:17:31.320 --> 0:17:34.159 Like part time? So, like, time and money are really important, 0:17:34.720 --> 0:17:38.119 and I think that's probably the biggest factor for most people. 0:17:38.400 --> 0:17:41.120 Grad school is not cheap, right, you know, and it's 0:17:41.200 --> 0:17:44.719 not working while going to school. It's a double whammy. 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.520 So I really get that conundrum lots of people are feeling. 0:17:48.960 --> 0:17:50.919 I really appreciate that you kind of gave us a 0:17:50.960 --> 0:17:54.440 framework of questions that one should ask themselves, because you're 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.760 actually now making me think if you can't answer those things, 0:17:57.840 --> 0:17:59.959 or if you can't kind of articulate the clear value 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:02.679 you would get, those might be the signs that you 0:18:02.760 --> 0:18:05.960 maybe should reconsider grad school. So I really appreciate you 0:18:06.000 --> 0:18:10.200 for saying that, because y'ah, check the signs, read the signs. 0:18:10.280 --> 0:18:10.680 That's right. 0:18:11.000 --> 0:18:12.920 Yeah, And I love that it's not a one size 0:18:12.960 --> 0:18:15.680 fits all approach, which I think people want. Like selfishly, 0:18:15.680 --> 0:18:17.600 I'm like, Okay, what are the questions I got asked myself? 0:18:18.280 --> 0:18:21.280 But I am wondering, are there certain professions where going 0:18:21.280 --> 0:18:24.000 to grad school will benefit you more than in a 0:18:24.000 --> 0:18:27.240 different industry, Like will it give you a competitive edge 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:29.360 if you work in XYZ industry? 0:18:29.880 --> 0:18:32.600 Yeah, you know, I think obviously there's going to be 0:18:32.600 --> 0:18:34.680 some schools that are going to give you competitive edge, right, 0:18:34.960 --> 0:18:37.679 especially if we're talking professional programs where it's like a 0:18:37.760 --> 0:18:41.840 clear outcome to a position. But you know, it's hard 0:18:41.880 --> 0:18:44.120 to predict the job market, right. I remember a friend 0:18:44.160 --> 0:18:46.879 of mine many years ago, like they were doing their 0:18:46.920 --> 0:18:50.600 masters in electrical engineering. Tech was really big at the time, 0:18:50.800 --> 0:18:53.400 and when you graduate, the tech sector had bottomed out. 0:18:53.600 --> 0:18:57.320 So I think the value of the like any graduate program, 0:18:57.520 --> 0:18:59.280 is a little bit more of like what are the 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:03.840