1 00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,840 --> 00:00:11,480 Speaker 2: Over the last two months, the United States has launched 3 00:00:11,520 --> 00:00:14,080 Speaker 2: a series of strikes off the coast of Venezuela. 4 00:00:14,160 --> 00:00:17,440 Speaker 1: The US military carried out another lethal air striker, another 5 00:00:17,560 --> 00:00:18,440 Speaker 1: US Stride. 6 00:00:18,160 --> 00:00:20,760 Speaker 3: New strike go to suspect the drug boat in the cribbe. 7 00:00:20,400 --> 00:00:25,000 Speaker 2: The massive explosion sending debris raining down in international waters. 8 00:00:25,040 --> 00:00:29,080 Speaker 2: Despite questions about evidence and due process, the administration insists 9 00:00:29,160 --> 00:00:33,280 Speaker 2: lethal strikes like these will continue. The Trump administration says 10 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:35,240 Speaker 2: it's targeting narco traffickers. 11 00:00:35,560 --> 00:00:38,479 Speaker 1: The President keeps making this claim that every time he 12 00:00:38,560 --> 00:00:42,040 Speaker 1: strikes one of these boats, he prevents about twenty four 13 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,879 Speaker 1: thousand drug related deaths in the United States. 14 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:48,000 Speaker 2: Nick Wadhams heads up Bloomberg's National Security team. 15 00:00:48,479 --> 00:00:52,360 Speaker 1: That is obviously a highly dubious claim, but he's basically 16 00:00:52,360 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: making the equation. You know, if you have x tons 17 00:00:54,720 --> 00:00:58,440 Speaker 1: of fentanyl on the boat, and a tiny dose of 18 00:00:58,480 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 1: fentanyl can kill a person, that's how many drug related 19 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:04,520 Speaker 1: deaths are being saved in the US. So they essentially 20 00:01:04,520 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: see this as an invasion by drug runners flooding the 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:09,560 Speaker 1: US market, and this is the way they're going to 22 00:01:09,600 --> 00:01:10,039 Speaker 1: stop it. 23 00:01:10,640 --> 00:01:13,440 Speaker 2: Experts say these strikes violate international law. 24 00:01:13,880 --> 00:01:17,160 Speaker 1: The real motivation for why these are actually happening is 25 00:01:17,200 --> 00:01:19,960 Speaker 1: something that has remained a very elusive reporting target. 26 00:01:20,600 --> 00:01:23,840 Speaker 2: The US is also building up its military presence in 27 00:01:23,840 --> 00:01:27,560 Speaker 2: the Caribbean, which is fueling intense speculation over what the 28 00:01:27,560 --> 00:01:30,280 Speaker 2: White House is planning to do next and what its 29 00:01:30,319 --> 00:01:34,559 Speaker 2: overall objective is. CBS News is Nora O'Donnell asked President 30 00:01:34,600 --> 00:01:37,280 Speaker 2: Trump about that in an interview that aired on Sixty 31 00:01:37,319 --> 00:01:39,880 Speaker 2: Minutes on Sunday on Venezuela. 32 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,800 Speaker 4: In particular, are Maduro's days as president numbers? 33 00:01:43,840 --> 00:01:44,479 Speaker 3: Oh so, yeah? 34 00:01:44,760 --> 00:01:51,200 Speaker 2: I think so you. I'm David Gera, and this is 35 00:01:51,200 --> 00:01:54,000 Speaker 2: the big take from Bloomberg News Today. On the show, 36 00:01:54,120 --> 00:01:57,440 Speaker 2: as the Trump administration continues to authorize strikes on boats 37 00:01:57,480 --> 00:01:59,920 Speaker 2: off South America, we take a look at the military 38 00:02:00,200 --> 00:02:03,400 Speaker 2: hardware President Trump has ordered to the region, Why he's 39 00:02:03,440 --> 00:02:06,400 Speaker 2: taking aim at Venezuela now, and what could happen next. 40 00:02:12,760 --> 00:02:15,160 Speaker 2: Over the last two months, strikes carried out by the 41 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:18,320 Speaker 2: US military on vessels in the Pacific and Caribbean have 42 00:02:18,440 --> 00:02:22,200 Speaker 2: killed more than sixty people. The Trump administration says those 43 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,840 Speaker 2: strikes and a growing military presence off the coast of 44 00:02:24,919 --> 00:02:28,079 Speaker 2: Venezuela are meant to hinder the flow of drugs from 45 00:02:28,120 --> 00:02:31,480 Speaker 2: South America to the United States. I asked Bloomberg's Nick 46 00:02:31,520 --> 00:02:34,160 Speaker 2: Wadhams if there is more to the story. 47 00:02:34,320 --> 00:02:36,960 Speaker 1: The element that's very high in a lot of people's 48 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:41,880 Speaker 1: minds is Venezuela is leadership president Nicholas Maduro. The US 49 00:02:41,960 --> 00:02:45,440 Speaker 1: says he's essentially the head of this drug running criminal enterprise, 50 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:48,400 Speaker 1: though as far as we know, not a lot of 51 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,840 Speaker 1: drugs are produced in Venezuela. It's mostly a transit point 52 00:02:51,919 --> 00:02:55,680 Speaker 1: for drugs flowing from elsewhere. But that has fueled a 53 00:02:55,680 --> 00:02:58,600 Speaker 1: lot of suspicion that the US basically wants regime change 54 00:02:58,600 --> 00:03:00,239 Speaker 1: in Venezuela. I mean, we know for a lot long 55 00:03:00,280 --> 00:03:03,359 Speaker 1: time that the US has wanted Nicholas Maduro out. They've 56 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:07,520 Speaker 1: put a multimillion dollar bounty on his head for any 57 00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:10,880 Speaker 1: information leading to his arrest. They tried in Trump's first 58 00:03:11,000 --> 00:03:14,480 Speaker 1: term to usher him from power. They failed, And now 59 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:16,960 Speaker 1: you have a Secretary of State and Marco Rubio who 60 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: has been even far more explicit about his desire to 61 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:22,840 Speaker 1: see Adua leave power. And so that has then fueled 62 00:03:22,880 --> 00:03:25,440 Speaker 1: a lot of speculation that the military build up is 63 00:03:25,480 --> 00:03:28,880 Speaker 1: not really about targeting these boats, but it's laying the 64 00:03:28,960 --> 00:03:34,160 Speaker 1: groundwork for airstrikes or possibly even an invasion that would 65 00:03:34,240 --> 00:03:35,800 Speaker 1: lead to Maduro's ouster. 66 00:03:36,880 --> 00:03:39,560 Speaker 2: Nick, how effective has this campaign been as a way 67 00:03:39,600 --> 00:03:42,240 Speaker 2: of ratcheting up pressure on President Maduro? What do we 68 00:03:42,240 --> 00:03:44,480 Speaker 2: know about what's happening on the ground in Venezuela. 69 00:03:44,680 --> 00:03:47,400 Speaker 1: It has ratcheted up a great deal of pressure on 70 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,800 Speaker 1: Nicholas Maduro. There's no question that he is feeling the heat. 71 00:03:50,880 --> 00:03:55,440 Speaker 1: He has called up troops, he's put his country on 72 00:03:55,520 --> 00:03:59,520 Speaker 1: high alert. The question, though, is what the ultimate effect 73 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:03,640 Speaker 1: will actually be the opposition in Venezuela. You may recall 74 00:04:03,720 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: that opposition leader Machado just won the Nobel Peace Prize 75 00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:10,520 Speaker 1: for her efforts, but she essentially argues that all this 76 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,880 Speaker 1: pressure is going to put so much of a squeeze 77 00:04:12,880 --> 00:04:14,600 Speaker 1: on Nicholas Maduro that he's going to be. 78 00:04:14,600 --> 00:04:15,560 Speaker 3: Forced to leave power. 79 00:04:15,880 --> 00:04:18,200 Speaker 1: The flip side of that is the argument that actually, 80 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:23,200 Speaker 1: by creating this extremely tense environment, that only gives Maduro 81 00:04:23,360 --> 00:04:26,880 Speaker 1: additional strength and support and attracts more people to his 82 00:04:27,000 --> 00:04:31,279 Speaker 1: side and essentially entrenches his position so that he emerges 83 00:04:31,360 --> 00:04:34,200 Speaker 1: from this even stronger. So there are a lot of 84 00:04:34,279 --> 00:04:37,920 Speaker 1: questions about how tenuous his grip on power really is. 85 00:04:38,040 --> 00:04:40,560 Speaker 1: But you know, there has been a great deal of reporting, 86 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,479 Speaker 1: including by Bloomberg, that he is looking for a way 87 00:04:43,560 --> 00:04:48,120 Speaker 1: out and he would vastly prefer a diplomatic solution to this. 88 00:04:49,520 --> 00:04:50,320 Speaker 3: There had been some. 89 00:04:50,320 --> 00:04:53,640 Speaker 1: Reporting that he was even looking for a strong economic 90 00:04:53,680 --> 00:04:56,680 Speaker 1: deal where he would essentially sell all Venezuela's oil to 91 00:04:56,720 --> 00:04:57,640 Speaker 1: the United States. 92 00:04:59,160 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 2: I asked Beco Wawer, the defense lead at Bloomberg Economics, 93 00:05:02,600 --> 00:05:05,600 Speaker 2: to detail just how much military might the US is 94 00:05:05,640 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: mobilized off of South America. 95 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,080 Speaker 4: Well, we've got a lot of seapower, airpower, and firepower 96 00:05:11,160 --> 00:05:16,000 Speaker 4: now in the Caribbean and in the Eastern Pacific, and honestly, 97 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,840 Speaker 4: this is probably the most that we've seen in those 98 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:22,800 Speaker 4: two regions for quite some time. So we've got multiple 99 00:05:22,960 --> 00:05:28,440 Speaker 4: guided missile destroyers which tend to carry missiles, including Tomahawk 100 00:05:28,520 --> 00:05:31,480 Speaker 4: land attack missiles that could be used in potential strikes. 101 00:05:31,960 --> 00:05:36,000 Speaker 4: We also have an amphibious Ready Group, which allows the 102 00:05:36,080 --> 00:05:39,360 Speaker 4: US to have a number of forces in the region. 103 00:05:39,520 --> 00:05:43,320 Speaker 4: So this is where you see a marine expeditionary unit 104 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,119 Speaker 4: embarked upon and it should be there in about a week. 105 00:05:47,279 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 4: Or so, and that's going to bring not only sizeable 106 00:05:51,640 --> 00:05:57,000 Speaker 4: number of sailors aboard, but also aircraft fighter aircraft that 107 00:05:57,040 --> 00:06:00,120 Speaker 4: can take off from the decks of the carrier and 108 00:06:00,279 --> 00:06:05,599 Speaker 4: potentially do strikes on either ships, whether it's these narco 109 00:06:05,680 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 4: trafficking boats or perhaps even strikes on land. In addition 110 00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,479 Speaker 4: to that, we've seen some special Forces assets in the 111 00:06:13,480 --> 00:06:16,200 Speaker 4: region as well, which is added to some of the 112 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,719 Speaker 4: potential pressure campaign that right now, this build up is 113 00:06:19,920 --> 00:06:23,520 Speaker 4: likely placing on Maduro, where it is almost a bit 114 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,880 Speaker 4: of a psychological operation. It's not just about the build 115 00:06:26,960 --> 00:06:29,920 Speaker 4: up itself and what those capabilities could bring, but as 116 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,000 Speaker 4: Nick was talking about, what it is that that pressure 117 00:06:33,040 --> 00:06:36,520 Speaker 4: could force Maduro to actually end up doing, which could 118 00:06:36,520 --> 00:06:38,919 Speaker 4: be potentially stepping down from power. 119 00:06:39,160 --> 00:06:41,239 Speaker 2: Yeah, Nick, I think of this piece that retired Admiral 120 00:06:41,279 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: James Uvritis road for Bloomberg Opinion, which he said, Look, 121 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,880 Speaker 2: if the goal here is to take out narco traffickers, 122 00:06:45,920 --> 00:06:48,400 Speaker 2: take out these boats, there's no way you would need 123 00:06:48,400 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 2: this much manpower and this much military equipment. So what 124 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,520 Speaker 2: does it indicate to you just all that's being marshaled. 125 00:06:54,200 --> 00:06:56,760 Speaker 1: There right I Mean, it's a great question because when 126 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: you're deploying an aircraft carrier strike grew and then you 127 00:07:00,880 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: look at the size of the boats that the administration 128 00:07:03,520 --> 00:07:05,400 Speaker 1: has essentially been blowing out of the water. 129 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,560 Speaker 3: There does seem to be a real imbalance there. 130 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:10,840 Speaker 1: So, you know, the big question we've really been trying 131 00:07:10,880 --> 00:07:14,360 Speaker 1: to answer is how much of this is actually heading 132 00:07:14,440 --> 00:07:17,800 Speaker 1: toward some sort of massive conflict where the US would 133 00:07:17,840 --> 00:07:20,520 Speaker 1: strike the land, which after all, is something that President 134 00:07:20,760 --> 00:07:23,320 Speaker 1: Trump has said he's willing to do. And how much 135 00:07:23,320 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 1: of it is essentially the president using military assets at 136 00:07:28,480 --> 00:07:32,920 Speaker 1: his disposal to basically act as a deterrent, to send 137 00:07:32,960 --> 00:07:34,480 Speaker 1: a threatening message. 138 00:07:34,080 --> 00:07:35,880 Speaker 3: That it's all bluster. You know. 139 00:07:36,000 --> 00:07:38,960 Speaker 1: The administration, when we have asked him about this, have said, hey, 140 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: we've deployed military assets all around the world for many years, 141 00:07:42,280 --> 00:07:45,040 Speaker 1: and then when we deploy them in our own backyard, 142 00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:48,120 Speaker 1: suddenly the media freaks out. Why shouldn't we be interested 143 00:07:48,160 --> 00:07:51,840 Speaker 1: in what's going on in our own hemisphere? And that 144 00:07:51,960 --> 00:07:55,000 Speaker 1: really is sort of part of the problem. Where in 145 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:58,760 Speaker 1: past administrations when you had strikes like this, a lot 146 00:07:58,800 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: of it was done in secrecy, but then there would 147 00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:06,040 Speaker 1: at least be some attempt to sort of explain or 148 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:10,400 Speaker 1: walk people through a lot of the details, maybe on 149 00:08:10,520 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: background or even off the record, sort of making the 150 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,920 Speaker 1: case in a very clear way about what the strategy 151 00:08:18,200 --> 00:08:20,920 Speaker 1: actually was for doing all of these things, which on 152 00:08:21,000 --> 00:08:24,280 Speaker 1: the surface seemed to be rather contradictory. And right now, 153 00:08:24,320 --> 00:08:27,400 Speaker 1: aside from some pronouncements, we have not really been able 154 00:08:27,440 --> 00:08:32,199 Speaker 1: to interrogate the administration in a public way about why 155 00:08:32,240 --> 00:08:36,200 Speaker 1: precisely they feel if this is a campaign designed to 156 00:08:36,240 --> 00:08:40,920 Speaker 1: target narco traffickers, they need to deploy an aircraft carrier 157 00:08:41,000 --> 00:08:44,120 Speaker 1: strike group and a submarine and all of these other 158 00:08:44,200 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 1: assets which would in any other circumstance be seen as 159 00:08:47,800 --> 00:08:49,520 Speaker 1: essentially a prelude to an invasion. 160 00:08:52,040 --> 00:08:54,679 Speaker 2: After the break, what a US attack on Venezuela could 161 00:08:54,720 --> 00:08:57,760 Speaker 2: look like, and how that country's oil reserves are shaping 162 00:08:57,760 --> 00:09:12,040 Speaker 2: the Trump administration's plans. Because something you have a lot 163 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:15,440 Speaker 2: of experience with are war games gaming out sort of 164 00:09:15,440 --> 00:09:18,000 Speaker 2: what might happen in a scenario like this, How do 165 00:09:18,040 --> 00:09:19,680 Speaker 2: you look at sort of the way that this might 166 00:09:20,559 --> 00:09:22,559 Speaker 2: evolve and what that might mean, how it might play on. 167 00:09:23,120 --> 00:09:25,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, so with my war gaming hat on, thinking about 168 00:09:25,840 --> 00:09:27,720 Speaker 4: all of the games that I've run for the Department 169 00:09:27,760 --> 00:09:31,280 Speaker 4: of Defense and for other militaries around the globe. I 170 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:34,839 Speaker 4: sort of see this as there being a few different options. 171 00:09:35,200 --> 00:09:38,720 Speaker 4: You know, one would be using some of the covert 172 00:09:38,800 --> 00:09:42,560 Speaker 4: assets that the US uses, trying to use special operations 173 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:46,000 Speaker 4: forces to do some type of regime change from within. 174 00:09:46,640 --> 00:09:48,440 Speaker 4: I think that that's a little bit more of a 175 00:09:48,520 --> 00:09:52,400 Speaker 4: less likely scenario. So instead, that makes me think that 176 00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,040 Speaker 4: there's probably two potential strike options if we're looking at 177 00:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,560 Speaker 4: the assets that are currently in theater. The first one 178 00:09:59,760 --> 00:10:04,840 Speaker 4: is going after infrastructure, having these big, showy strikes that 179 00:10:04,920 --> 00:10:08,360 Speaker 4: are very visible and very public and can last for 180 00:10:08,880 --> 00:10:12,640 Speaker 4: several days, maybe a few weeks. The second option would 181 00:10:12,679 --> 00:10:16,000 Speaker 4: be one that's more so going after the various nodes 182 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,560 Speaker 4: of the cartels, so going after different transportation routes, going 183 00:10:20,679 --> 00:10:24,640 Speaker 4: after cartel leadership, particularly when they're on the move. And 184 00:10:24,720 --> 00:10:26,720 Speaker 4: this is going to look a lot like some of 185 00:10:26,760 --> 00:10:29,800 Speaker 4: the counter terrorism operations that we've seen in places like 186 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:33,679 Speaker 4: Afghanistan and Iraq. It's going to require a bunch of 187 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,400 Speaker 4: air power and air strikes. So really I think what 188 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 4: we're seeing here are two kind of options. These big 189 00:10:40,280 --> 00:10:43,000 Speaker 4: attacks kind of a little bit like what we saw 190 00:10:43,080 --> 00:10:47,400 Speaker 4: the administration do against the Huthi's earlier this year, and 191 00:10:47,440 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 4: then also these almost counter terrorism style attacks where they're 192 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:54,840 Speaker 4: going to go after transportation nodes and key leadership. In 193 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:59,680 Speaker 4: both cases, there's a fairly limited track record of success. 194 00:11:00,080 --> 00:11:02,480 Speaker 4: So that doesn't necessarily give me a lot of hope 195 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,240 Speaker 4: that if the US were to conduct any of these 196 00:11:05,280 --> 00:11:09,000 Speaker 4: strikes that they would be successful at going after and 197 00:11:09,160 --> 00:11:12,640 Speaker 4: stabbing the flow of drugs, if that truly is what 198 00:11:12,880 --> 00:11:14,880 Speaker 4: the impetus for these attacks would be. 199 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,439 Speaker 2: Nick, I know that Venezuela has an awful lot of oil, 200 00:11:18,640 --> 00:11:20,760 Speaker 2: and I wonder how that might be shaping the way 201 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: the administration is thinking about its course forward. 202 00:11:23,480 --> 00:11:26,040 Speaker 1: David, that is really at the heart of so much 203 00:11:26,120 --> 00:11:28,839 Speaker 1: of this, because when you look at this conflict through 204 00:11:29,240 --> 00:11:32,680 Speaker 1: the perspective of oil, you really start to peel back 205 00:11:32,800 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: a lot of layers and see some hidden currents that 206 00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:39,160 Speaker 1: have been coursing through this administration since Trump came back. 207 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:41,000 Speaker 3: So you've essentially got two pulls. 208 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,640 Speaker 1: One is Marco Rubio, who wants to ramp up even 209 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:47,559 Speaker 1: further the sanctions that have been imposed on Venezuela to 210 00:11:47,679 --> 00:11:50,400 Speaker 1: choke off its oil industry, stop the flow of oil, 211 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:54,480 Speaker 1: and really starve Maduro of the hard currency. 212 00:11:54,600 --> 00:11:55,920 Speaker 3: He needs to stay afloat. 213 00:11:56,240 --> 00:11:59,040 Speaker 1: On the other hand, you have a Trump advisor who's 214 00:11:59,080 --> 00:12:01,800 Speaker 1: now actually run the Kennedy Center for Donald Trump. He's 215 00:12:01,840 --> 00:12:05,280 Speaker 1: the former ambassador to Germany, someone named Richard Grenell, and 216 00:12:05,320 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 1: he had been pushing this idea that no, let's open 217 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:12,360 Speaker 1: it up entirely. Let's essentially create a situation where we 218 00:12:12,480 --> 00:12:15,640 Speaker 1: lift all the sanctions and then the United States buys 219 00:12:15,679 --> 00:12:18,959 Speaker 1: all of Venezuela's oil, and then we can tear iff 220 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: the heck out of everything coming in from Venezuela and 221 00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:26,400 Speaker 1: essentially make Venezuela the fifty first state of the United States. 222 00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:29,400 Speaker 3: So a very different approach and sort of playing. 223 00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:33,640 Speaker 1: Do you have these two advisors playing to different aspects 224 00:12:33,720 --> 00:12:37,319 Speaker 1: or different impulses from the president, one being his desired 225 00:12:37,440 --> 00:12:40,240 Speaker 1: piece through strength and desire to get tough, and then 226 00:12:40,280 --> 00:12:43,800 Speaker 1: the other, Hey, tariffs and business deals and let's make 227 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:46,560 Speaker 1: a deal art of the deal. You know, I don't 228 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,240 Speaker 1: care so much about your values and whether you believe 229 00:12:49,280 --> 00:12:52,120 Speaker 1: in democracy as long as we have a business partnership 230 00:12:52,559 --> 00:12:54,960 Speaker 1: between the two countries. And safe to say, right now, 231 00:12:55,000 --> 00:12:58,200 Speaker 1: the Rubio approach has definitely won. There is absolutely no 232 00:12:58,320 --> 00:13:01,160 Speaker 1: indication that present and Trump is going to be willing 233 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:04,760 Speaker 1: anytime soon to lift those sanctions and pursue any sort 234 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,439 Speaker 1: of oil deals with Venezuela. But he is getting pressure 235 00:13:08,559 --> 00:13:12,520 Speaker 1: from some of his allies. Obviously, the oil majors. Chevron 236 00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 1: still does some business in Venezuela. They would love to 237 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,400 Speaker 1: get into that market. And the question is, well, how 238 00:13:19,440 --> 00:13:24,280 Speaker 1: long does Trump's patients last? Is he really after coming 239 00:13:24,320 --> 00:13:27,640 Speaker 1: to the presidency billing himself as the peace president, He's 240 00:13:27,640 --> 00:13:30,600 Speaker 1: solved a bunch of wars, he didn't start any new ones. 241 00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,360 Speaker 1: Is he really going to commit to the idea of 242 00:13:34,400 --> 00:13:37,320 Speaker 1: a massive campaign? I mean, right now there essentially there's 243 00:13:37,480 --> 00:13:39,960 Speaker 1: very little notion that the US would put actual boots 244 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:42,959 Speaker 1: on the ground in Venezuela. But is he willing to 245 00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:46,280 Speaker 1: enter into a lengthy air campaign against Venezuela when it 246 00:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,400 Speaker 1: goes against so much of the reasons why he said 247 00:13:49,440 --> 00:13:52,040 Speaker 1: he deserved to be president a second time? And how 248 00:13:52,120 --> 00:13:54,480 Speaker 1: much is he going to lose patients for that effort 249 00:13:54,520 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 1: and then try to lean into some other effort where 250 00:13:56,760 --> 00:13:59,360 Speaker 1: he could essentially cut a deal with Maduro the way 251 00:13:59,360 --> 00:14:01,440 Speaker 1: you saw him try to cut a deal with Vladimir 252 00:14:01,480 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: putin North Korea? Is Kim jong Un and even in 253 00:14:04,360 --> 00:14:06,280 Speaker 1: some cases you know has said he wants to cut 254 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:07,120 Speaker 1: a deal with a run. 255 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 2: This is the Big Take from Bloomberg News. I'm David Gurat. 256 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:18,520 Speaker 2: The show is hosted by me Wanha and Sarah Holder. 257 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:21,800 Speaker 2: The show is made by Aaron Edwards, David Fox, Eleanor 258 00:14:21,840 --> 00:14:26,000 Speaker 2: Harrison Dengate, Patti Hirsch, Rachel Lewis, Krisky, Naomi, Julia Press, 259 00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:30,200 Speaker 2: Tracy Samuelson, Naomi Shavin, Alex Sakura, Julia Weaver, Young Young, 260 00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:33,000 Speaker 2: and take Yasizawa. To get more from the Big Take 261 00:14:33,080 --> 00:14:36,200 Speaker 2: and unlimited access to all of Bloomberg dot com, subscribe 262 00:14:36,200 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 2: today at Bloomberg dot Com Slash Podcast offer. Thanks for listening. 263 00:14:40,400 --> 00:14:42,560 Speaker 2: We'll be back on Monday.