WEBVTT - Episode 5: Leading Men 0:00:00.440 --> 0:00:03.000 Hey, this is Leon Napok. I'm the host of Fiasco, 0:00:03.240 --> 0:00:05.640 but you may also know me from the podcasts Slowburn, 0:00:05.840 --> 0:00:09.240 Think Twice, Michael Jackson, and Backfired the Vaping Wars. I'm 0:00:09.280 --> 0:00:11.880 excited to be sharing with you the next season of Backfired, 0:00:12.000 --> 0:00:15.960 titled Attention Deficit, which is now available exclusively on Audible. 0:00:16.800 --> 0:00:20.320 Backfired is a podcast about the business of unintended consequences. 0:00:20.840 --> 0:00:23.279 In the first season, my co host Ril Pardess and 0:00:23.320 --> 0:00:25.680 I dove deep into the world of vaping and how 0:00:25.680 --> 0:00:28.400 the well intentioned quest for a safer cigarette went awry. 0:00:28.960 --> 0:00:32.879 Now we're tackling ADHD and how the push to destigmatize 0:00:32.880 --> 0:00:35.879 this hard to define childhood diagnosis has led to an 0:00:35.920 --> 0:00:38.720 explosion of stimulant use in kids as well as adults. 0:00:39.000 --> 0:00:41.560 It's a story about the promise of psychiatry to fix 0:00:41.640 --> 0:00:44.640 our brains and the power of the pharmaceutical industry to 0:00:44.680 --> 0:00:47.600 shape how we and our doctors think about what's wrong 0:00:47.640 --> 0:00:50.239 with us. To hear both seasons of Backfired, go to 0:00:50.240 --> 0:00:53.600 audible dot com slash Backfired and start a free trial 0:00:54.040 --> 0:00:59.360 that's audible dot com slash Backfired. Fiasco is intended for 0:00:59.440 --> 0:01:03.360 mature audio. For a list of books, articles and documentaries 0:01:03.360 --> 0:01:05.800 we used in our research. Follow the link in the 0:01:05.800 --> 0:01:12.640 show notes. Previously on fiasco. 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:18.040 It's mysterious, it's deadly, and it's baffling medical science. 0:01:18.040 --> 0:01:20.680 The Food and Drug Administration has recommended that any man 0:01:20.720 --> 0:01:23.560 who has had sex with another man since nineteen seventy 0:01:23.600 --> 0:01:25.360 seven not donate blood. 0:01:25.520 --> 0:01:30.240 You had many people from the radical right expressing really 0:01:30.400 --> 0:01:32.480 extreme measures. 0:01:32.080 --> 0:01:34.760 And I do believe that AIDS is a violation of 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:35.440 God's laws. 0:01:35.520 --> 0:01:37.840 How many of us have to die before you get 0:01:37.880 --> 0:01:38.520 off your ass? 0:01:38.680 --> 0:01:43.480 We had no other resources but ourselves. 0:01:45.080 --> 0:01:49.240 Rock Hudson magnificently proving the power of love and faith 0:01:49.520 --> 0:01:51.800 in a great performance and lovely. 0:01:51.840 --> 0:01:54.920 When Rock Hudson appeared in the romantic comedy Pillow Talk 0:01:55.080 --> 0:01:57.760 in nineteen fifty nine, he was already one of the 0:01:57.840 --> 0:01:59.960 most famous leading men in America. 0:02:00.000 --> 0:02:03.640 A Beverly Hills, California, It's Rock Hudson honored again with 0:02:03.720 --> 0:02:06.960 Photoplays Gold Medal the most Popular Actor Award. 0:02:07.200 --> 0:02:12.160 Hudson was the very model of the mid century American man, Tall, stoic, 0:02:12.480 --> 0:02:16.720 and transcendently good looking. According to Life Magazine, he was 0:02:16.760 --> 0:02:18.559 a towering hunk of handsomeness. 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:22.440 Rock Hudson, six Street four of Fighting Man, Enter, Tame 0:02:22.600 --> 0:02:26.920 a Wildcat, Beauty makes will read this is Rock Hudson. 0:02:27.720 --> 0:02:31.079 My new picture, Pillow Talk, brings me together with Doris Day. 0:02:31.440 --> 0:02:34.200 But the Pillow Talk was a milestone in Hudson's career, 0:02:34.760 --> 0:02:37.640 his first romantic comedy and the first of several starring 0:02:37.720 --> 0:02:41.320 roles opposite Doris Day. The premise of the movie was 0:02:41.320 --> 0:02:44.200 that Hudson's character was pretending to be gay as part 0:02:44.200 --> 0:02:46.040 of a ploy to win Day's heart. 0:02:46.360 --> 0:02:47.639 Don't you find me attractive? 0:02:48.960 --> 0:02:52.920 Why yes, ma'am, of course. 0:02:53.800 --> 0:03:00.880 Then why haven't you ever ever what? I'm sorry, foolish. 0:03:01.200 --> 0:03:05.040 The characters made repeated references to homosexuality, all of them 0:03:05.080 --> 0:03:06.960 disguised in wordplay and innuendo. 0:03:07.360 --> 0:03:08.040 Either you're not. 0:03:07.919 --> 0:03:13.320 Telling the truth or or what. Well, there are some 0:03:13.440 --> 0:03:17.520 men who just they're very devoted to their mothers, you know, 0:03:17.800 --> 0:03:21.679 the type that likes to collect cooking recipes, exchange bits 0:03:21.720 --> 0:03:22.280 of gossip. 0:03:22.680 --> 0:03:24.840 But there was a layer of irony to Pillow Talk 0:03:25.000 --> 0:03:27.359 that few audience members would have known to look for. 0:03:27.840 --> 0:03:32.600 Here's a real life gay man playing a straight man 0:03:32.720 --> 0:03:35.280 who at one point is pretending to be a gay 0:03:35.360 --> 0:03:38.080 man to Lord Doris Day into bed. 0:03:38.600 --> 0:03:41.600 This is Mark Griffin, author of the Rock Hudson biography 0:03:41.800 --> 0:03:42.920 All That Heaven Allows. 0:03:43.760 --> 0:03:46.280 So it's definitely a hall of mirrors, like you know, 0:03:46.720 --> 0:03:48.760 several layers of surreal. 0:03:51.320 --> 0:03:54.400 As a star in the Hollywood studio system, Hudson was 0:03:54.440 --> 0:03:57.840 an expert presenting a broadly appealing and inoffensive version of 0:03:57.880 --> 0:04:00.960 himself to the world, but the details of his private 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:03.120 life were known to many of the people he worked 0:04:03.120 --> 0:04:04.000 and socialized with. 0:04:04.720 --> 0:04:08.400 It was sort of this silent agreement that nobody was 0:04:08.440 --> 0:04:12.240 going to talk about homosexuality unless you were among your 0:04:12.280 --> 0:04:15.200 own and you felt very safe in discussing that. 0:04:15.840 --> 0:04:18.880 Hudson's sexuality was something of an open secret in the 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.680 film industry, and everyone, including Hudson, knew that it would 0:04:22.720 --> 0:04:25.720 ruin his career if moviegoers ever found out about it. 0:04:26.120 --> 0:04:30.640 There was this ironclad expectation that a star, especially one 0:04:30.640 --> 0:04:34.160 of that magnitude, would never do anything in his private 0:04:34.200 --> 0:04:37.960 life to embarrass his bosses or worse. At that time, 0:04:38.000 --> 0:04:43.200 there was a morals clause in each contract player's contract 0:04:43.400 --> 0:04:46.720 which forbade engaging in any behavior that might be deemed 0:04:46.760 --> 0:04:52.719 socially unacceptable or immoral, and from there on in for 0:04:52.839 --> 0:04:54.800 much of his career, Rock is working what I would 0:04:54.800 --> 0:04:59.400 describe as a sort of very dangerous tight rope act. 0:05:00.000 --> 0:05:03.240 The main threat to Hudson's career came from the tabloid press. 0:05:04.000 --> 0:05:06.680 Hudson's agent is rumored to have once given a journalist 0:05:06.760 --> 0:05:10.039 damaging information about another one of his own clients in 0:05:10.120 --> 0:05:14.719 exchange for killing a story about Hudson's sexuality. Another time, 0:05:14.960 --> 0:05:17.720 there was gossip going around that Hudson might be romantically 0:05:17.720 --> 0:05:21.200 involved with an actor named Jim Nabors. The truth was 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:24.240 they were just close friends, but Hudson was so worried 0:05:24.240 --> 0:05:27.960 about the potential fallout that he stopped talking to neighbors entirely. 0:05:32.200 --> 0:05:35.080 The stakes of keeping Hudson's identity as secret were perhaps 0:05:35.200 --> 0:05:38.600 highest during the pillow talk era, but even as time 0:05:38.720 --> 0:05:42.480 passed and his leading man days started the dwindle, Hudson 0:05:42.520 --> 0:05:45.520 worked hard to maintain his public image. As long as 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:47.800 he did that he could live his life the way 0:05:47.839 --> 0:05:50.600 he wanted to in private. One of the people who 0:05:50.640 --> 0:05:53.279 got to see Hudson in that context was Ken Jilson, 0:05:53.839 --> 0:05:56.600 a longtime fan who turned into one of Hudson's friends. 0:05:57.279 --> 0:05:59.120 Jilson had worked at a movie theater when he was 0:05:59.120 --> 0:06:02.359 a teenager, and he had loved Hudson's movies ever since. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.240 We would play these Rock Hudson movies Lover, Come Back 0:06:06.320 --> 0:06:09.839 and things like that, and I had the strangest feeling 0:06:10.320 --> 0:06:12.760 when I would look at the screen that I knew him. 0:06:12.800 --> 0:06:14.159 I can't explain that. 0:06:14.800 --> 0:06:17.640 When Jillson and Hudson met in the early seventies, it 0:06:17.720 --> 0:06:20.600 turned out that Hudson had just installed a home movie theater. 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:24.760 He had a complete movie theater in his home with 0:06:24.880 --> 0:06:28.880 thirty five millimeter projection equipment. And I said, well, you 0:06:28.960 --> 0:06:31.720 know what, I used to work in a movie theater. 0:06:31.960 --> 0:06:34.920 I know how to run the machines. I'll teach you 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.000 how to do it. 0:06:36.800 --> 0:06:40.000 Jillson and his partner grew close to Hudson. They even 0:06:40.040 --> 0:06:42.280 convinced him to become the first investor in their gift 0:06:42.279 --> 0:06:45.159 trapping business. Over the years, he would invite them to 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:47.960 dinner parties at his Beverly Hills estate, which boasted a 0:06:47.960 --> 0:06:50.520 one hundred and eighty degree view of Los Angeles and 0:06:50.560 --> 0:06:52.160 which Hudson called the Castle. 0:06:52.920 --> 0:06:57.480 It had a whole two story Spanish hacienda field to it, 0:06:57.680 --> 0:07:01.840 and he had a piano in the movie theater. And 0:07:01.960 --> 0:07:05.760 he loved to have his friends over and entertain. They'd 0:07:05.760 --> 0:07:09.560 all come over, people like Carol Burnett, and they would. 0:07:09.279 --> 0:07:11.840 Sing, could I wave the years? 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.840 And I'll do like little shows on the stage. 0:07:14.880 --> 0:07:18.600 It was really cool, tears away when your eyes. 0:07:18.400 --> 0:07:19.200 Are drunk. 0:07:20.640 --> 0:07:21.080 Seek. 0:07:21.800 --> 0:07:24.680 By the time he was in his mid forties, Hudson 0:07:24.760 --> 0:07:28.040 was spending less of his time making big movies and 0:07:28.120 --> 0:07:30.880 more of it on stage, acting in musical theater. 0:07:31.200 --> 0:07:33.440 He was in several musicals and he did on the 0:07:33.440 --> 0:07:38.520 twentieth Century. He did Camelot and he couldn't I mean, 0:07:38.560 --> 0:07:42.040 he could sing okay, And he just was in seventh 0:07:42.160 --> 0:07:44.280 Heaven on the theater stage. 0:07:44.800 --> 0:07:48.080 He even released an album of covers called rock Gently. 0:07:48.560 --> 0:07:52.760 Now that the Summer is come and gone, I'll say 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:56.400 goodbye now that the Winner. 0:07:57.040 --> 0:07:59.800 In nineteen eighty four, Hudson got a chance to catch 0:07:59.880 --> 0:08:01.800 up with a couple he had first gotten to know 0:08:02.000 --> 0:08:07.040 decades earlier in Hollywood, Ronald and Nancy Reagan. As Mark 0:08:07.080 --> 0:08:10.480 Griffin writes in his book, the two former actors invited 0:08:10.560 --> 0:08:12.960 Hudson to the White House for an official state dinner 0:08:13.040 --> 0:08:15.160 to honor the President of Mexico. 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:19.400 President Missus del Madrid Mikaza Essukazza. 0:08:20.200 --> 0:08:22.880 At the event, Hudson chatted with the first Lady and 0:08:22.920 --> 0:08:24.040 took photos with her. 0:08:24.400 --> 0:08:27.800 And of all people, Nancy Reagan noticed that when they 0:08:27.800 --> 0:08:31.000 were posing for photos that he had a blemish on 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:34.040 his neck, and that she advised him to have it checked. 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:39.000 Hudson would later tell friends that after he was diagnosed 0:08:39.000 --> 0:08:41.520 with AIDS, he went home and cried for a week. 0:08:42.440 --> 0:08:46.080 There were so many unknowns, how long he could keep working, 0:08:46.720 --> 0:08:50.600 how quickly the disease would progress. The one thing was obvious, 0:08:51.160 --> 0:08:53.240 Hudson would be living this part of his life the 0:08:53.280 --> 0:08:56.679 same way he had lived so many others in private. 0:08:57.760 --> 0:09:02.000 I'm Leon Napock from Audible Origins and Prologue Projects. This 0:09:02.400 --> 0:09:03.040 is fiasco. 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:05.720 Just what is wrong with Rock Hutson? The nature of 0:09:05.760 --> 0:09:08.520 his illness has become clouded in mystery and confusion. 0:09:08.679 --> 0:09:08.880 Rock. 0:09:09.080 --> 0:09:12.280 The news media are clamoring for information. What do you 0:09:12.320 --> 0:09:12.960 think I should do? 0:09:13.200 --> 0:09:15.920 They are violating the laws of nature, and nature is 0:09:15.960 --> 0:09:16.680 striking back. 0:09:16.840 --> 0:09:19.880 Luis, does anybody in the White House know about this epidemic? 0:09:20.080 --> 0:09:21.720 I think we just have to do the best we 0:09:21.840 --> 0:09:24.439 can with this problem. I can understand both sides of it. 0:09:27.720 --> 0:09:31.040 In this episode, what happened when one of Hollywood's biggest 0:09:31.040 --> 0:09:34.240 stars became sick with AIDS and what it took to 0:09:34.240 --> 0:09:46.960 get President Reagan to pay attention to the epidemic. Michael Gottlieb, 0:09:47.040 --> 0:09:50.680 an immunologist at UCLA, was used to getting referrals for 0:09:50.760 --> 0:09:53.720 new patients, but it was a new experience for him 0:09:53.840 --> 0:09:57.000 when a dermatologist in Beverly Hills called him on behalf 0:09:57.080 --> 0:09:58.959 of an A list celebrity and. 0:09:58.960 --> 0:10:01.160 She mentioned his name, Rock Cuts, in which of course 0:10:01.320 --> 0:10:04.559 a name I knew. So I climbed into my Dodge 0:10:04.600 --> 0:10:08.839 Aspen that leaked and drove to U Cannon Drive or 0:10:08.920 --> 0:10:10.800 Rodeo Driver or one of those places. 0:10:11.200 --> 0:10:14.439 Gottlieb met with Hudson at the dermatologist's office, and. 0:10:14.400 --> 0:10:16.679 Then they left me alone with Rock, and he and 0:10:16.720 --> 0:10:19.640 I talked, and then I examined him. He showed me 0:10:19.720 --> 0:10:25.319 this capasi sarcoma lesion that he had on his left forearm. 0:10:25.480 --> 0:10:28.560 Gottlieb went through his standard questions, just like he would 0:10:28.600 --> 0:10:29.560 have with anyone. 0:10:29.200 --> 0:10:32.000 Else, and so at one point I asked Roc to 0:10:32.280 --> 0:10:35.280 hop up on the exam table, and as he did that, 0:10:35.440 --> 0:10:38.200 I had to look up because he was so tall, 0:10:38.520 --> 0:10:41.200 and I said, my, you're tall, and he sort of 0:10:41.200 --> 0:10:44.840 shrugged in a boyish way and said yeah, six ' four. 0:10:45.760 --> 0:10:49.400 After a short exam, Gottlieb confirmed what his new patient 0:10:49.480 --> 0:10:50.480 had already guessed. 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.960 I told him I thought he probably did have AIDS. 0:10:55.720 --> 0:10:59.200 He knew what it was. We talked about the sexual 0:10:59.240 --> 0:11:03.760 transmission of whatever was causing this, and he had already 0:11:03.800 --> 0:11:07.040 prepared three or four anonymous letters to go to people 0:11:07.160 --> 0:11:10.240 with whom he had had intercourse, telling them that they 0:11:10.440 --> 0:11:13.640 had been exposed to someone who had AIDS, and he 0:11:13.760 --> 0:11:17.199 was going to mail them once he had confirmation. 0:11:24.960 --> 0:11:28.280 Got Leeb diagnosed Rock Hudson with AIDS on June fifth, 0:11:28.400 --> 0:11:32.160 nineteen eighty four. By that point, more than five thousand 0:11:32.160 --> 0:11:36.120 other Americans had received the same diagnosis, and roughly three 0:11:36.160 --> 0:11:39.800 thousand of them had died, but President Ronald Reagan had 0:11:39.840 --> 0:11:44.080 never once mentioned the disease in public. Reagan had met 0:11:44.120 --> 0:11:47.440 Rock Hudson back when they were both working actors, but 0:11:47.480 --> 0:11:49.920 while Hudson was able to make the leap to leading man, 0:11:50.679 --> 0:11:54.400 Reagan never quite broke through. His most notable role came 0:11:54.440 --> 0:11:57.120 in nineteen forty, when he played a football player in 0:11:57.200 --> 0:12:00.400 Canute Rockney All American, the movie that gave gave him 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.680 a lifelong nickname, ask him to go. 0:12:02.720 --> 0:12:06.480 In there with all it win, just one for the Kipper. 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:10.640 Even though Reagan was never especially famous as an actor, 0:12:11.400 --> 0:12:14.040 he was able to parlay his name recognition into a 0:12:14.080 --> 0:12:18.000 career in politics. In nineteen sixty six, he ran for 0:12:18.080 --> 0:12:19.280 governor of California. 0:12:19.400 --> 0:12:21.880 The biggest shot in the arm for the American Republican 0:12:21.920 --> 0:12:25.239 Party in the election of Ronald Reagan as governor of California. 0:12:25.840 --> 0:12:30.120 Reagan was unapologetically right wing on issues like crime and welfare, 0:12:30.559 --> 0:12:33.559 but when it came to gay rights, Reagan's views were 0:12:33.600 --> 0:12:38.280 not totally caught and dry. Here's historian Rick Pearlstein, author 0:12:38.320 --> 0:12:39.839 of the book Reaganland. 0:12:40.000 --> 0:12:43.720 The first scandal of Reagan's gubernatorial term in nineteen sixty 0:12:43.760 --> 0:12:47.920 seven happened when several of his aides trapped one of 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:51.120 his aids that they considered a bureaucratic rival in a 0:12:51.120 --> 0:12:55.960 gay relationship in a motel room, you know, using listening devices, 0:12:56.000 --> 0:12:57.160 and leaked it to the press. 0:12:58.440 --> 0:13:02.120 Drew into a publishery board that homosexual reignan been uncovered 0:13:02.160 --> 0:13:03.280 amongst your administration. 0:13:04.600 --> 0:13:07.560 And when this got out, people thought that Reagan's future 0:13:07.559 --> 0:13:12.960 political ambitions might be checked by this scandal, and instead 0:13:13.360 --> 0:13:17.000 Ronald Reagan said, you know, this is ridiculous. I'm not 0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:20.400 going to, you know, through my administration and hold this 0:13:20.480 --> 0:13:23.680 kind of witch hunt. This is stooping to destroy human beings, 0:13:24.160 --> 0:13:25.000 innocent people. 0:13:26.360 --> 0:13:29.439 According to poles from this time, the vast majority of 0:13:29.520 --> 0:13:32.600 Americans said they did not know any gay people personally. 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:36.360 Reagan was not one of them. He actually had friends 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.319 he knew were gay. 0:13:37.440 --> 0:13:39.040 But the same token he made the same kind of 0:13:39.080 --> 0:13:42.560 homophobic jokes everyone did. Or he would say, I have 0:13:42.640 --> 0:13:45.840 no problem with gay's working in state government, but of 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:47.800 course they shouldn't be working for the Department of Parks 0:13:47.800 --> 0:13:50.160 and Recreation. You know, the suggestion that you know, gays 0:13:50.160 --> 0:13:52.840 were forging through the bushes to kind of, you know, 0:13:53.160 --> 0:13:54.120 do naughty things. 0:13:54.840 --> 0:13:58.160 Reagan reportedly panicked when his son, Ron Junior told him 0:13:58.160 --> 0:14:00.720 that he wanted to be a ballet dancer, fearing that 0:14:00.800 --> 0:14:03.760 it meant he might be gay. At the same time, 0:14:04.320 --> 0:14:07.120 Reagan made a point of opposing an anti gay ballot 0:14:07.120 --> 0:14:10.199 initiative in California that would have given the school board 0:14:10.240 --> 0:14:12.559 the right to fire people over their sexuality. 0:14:13.080 --> 0:14:17.680 Politicians from Jimmy Carter Torontald Reagan argued, which Hunt said 0:14:17.720 --> 0:14:20.880 one cheering celebrant. It's obvious gays have a lot of 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.560 friends in California. 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:28.040 He very specifically debunks the operative argument of the anti 0:14:28.120 --> 0:14:31.640 gay right side in this huge, defining political fight, which 0:14:31.680 --> 0:14:34.280 is that gays were trying to recruit young people, you know, 0:14:34.320 --> 0:14:38.240 into their awful tribe. And he specifically said being gay 0:14:38.240 --> 0:14:40.480 isn't a choice, which was a very progressive view for 0:14:40.520 --> 0:14:41.000 the time. 0:14:41.680 --> 0:14:44.160 It all gave the impression that Reagan had a certain 0:14:44.200 --> 0:14:47.560 amount of personal tolerance for gay people, but he was 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:50.680 also quick to tell angry constituents that his position wasn't 0:14:50.720 --> 0:14:54.120 so much about tolerance as it was about opposing government overreach, 0:14:54.480 --> 0:14:54.680 and he. 0:14:54.640 --> 0:14:56.840 Would always reassure them that while he was, you know, 0:14:56.880 --> 0:15:01.240 against this specific initiative, you know, as an unwarketed government 0:15:01.400 --> 0:15:05.600 intrusion for lives of individuals, he was absolutely opposed to 0:15:06.480 --> 0:15:09.480 gay people quote unquote promoting their lifestyle, and that he 0:15:09.520 --> 0:15:13.040 didn't believe sodomy's statutes should be overturned and that sort 0:15:13.080 --> 0:15:13.360 of thing. 0:15:17.200 --> 0:15:21.160 As President, Reagan preferred to delegate most policy specifics to 0:15:21.200 --> 0:15:25.080 his cabinet secretaries and other officials. A lot of Reagan's 0:15:25.120 --> 0:15:28.600 closest advisors were part of the Republican establishment, and as 0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:31.440 strange as it may sound now, they were worried that 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:35.240 aligning too closely with social conservatives like Jerry Folwell would 0:15:35.280 --> 0:15:39.360 alienate moderate voters. Still, they had to give them something. 0:15:39.400 --> 0:15:42.920 In the new administration, here again is Rick Pearlstein. 0:15:42.840 --> 0:15:45.640 And the solution they arrive at is to make their 0:15:45.680 --> 0:15:50.359 most prominent patronage hire this guy. See ever Coop. 0:15:50.360 --> 0:15:53.240 Ronald Reagan's choice for a surgeon general one of the 0:15:53.240 --> 0:15:56.360 most controversial decisions taken by the new administration. 0:15:56.680 --> 0:15:59.760 I think for precisely the reason that the surgeon General 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.120 is his very powerless role traditionally that a lot of 0:16:03.160 --> 0:16:05.840 presidents didn't even bother to fill, you know it kind 0:16:05.880 --> 0:16:09.280 of like manages, you know, quarantine expections at ports and 0:16:09.320 --> 0:16:09.840 things like that. 0:16:10.400 --> 0:16:12.680 Coop had made a name for himself touring the country 0:16:12.720 --> 0:16:16.360 as an anti abortion advocate. As surgeon General, he was 0:16:16.400 --> 0:16:19.400 best known for his crusade against smoking and for his 0:16:19.480 --> 0:16:23.480 distinctive appearance picture Colonel Sanders in a Navy uniform. 0:16:23.680 --> 0:16:27.520 He has this biblical temperament where everything is just kind 0:16:27.520 --> 0:16:29.720 of black and white. He had this kind of prophetic 0:16:29.840 --> 0:16:32.320 mean to him. George will described him in a gushing 0:16:32.360 --> 0:16:35.160 profile as resembling an Old Testament prophet who has just 0:16:35.200 --> 0:16:37.560 discovered his neighbors making graven images. 0:16:38.040 --> 0:16:42.680 Cigarette smoking is clearly identified as the chief preventable cause 0:16:42.800 --> 0:16:44.840 of death in our society. 0:16:44.960 --> 0:16:48.600 He attacked family planning programs for converting adolescent innocence into 0:16:48.600 --> 0:16:50.040 sexually active teenagers. 0:16:50.280 --> 0:16:51.080 Coop said pro. 0:16:50.960 --> 0:16:55.640 Abortion statements by Protestant denominations show their superficial theology, lack 0:16:55.640 --> 0:16:59.200 of morality, and an insensitivity to the eventual reward for 0:16:59.280 --> 0:17:00.000 their deprivative. 0:17:05.960 --> 0:17:08.840 In nineteen eighty two, a reporter at a White House 0:17:08.880 --> 0:17:12.960 briefing asked Reagan's Press Secretary Larry Speaks about the mysterious 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:17.359 disease that had emerged in California, New York, Miami and elsewhere. 0:17:17.880 --> 0:17:21.920 There were already hundreds of diagnosed cases, but Speaks said 0:17:22.000 --> 0:17:23.000 he hadn't heard about it. 0:17:23.280 --> 0:17:24.200 Does the President have. 0:17:24.160 --> 0:17:28.360 Any reactions with the announced from the Center for Disease 0:17:28.400 --> 0:17:32.879 Control of Atlanta that AIDS is now an epidemic of 0:17:33.000 --> 0:17:37.280 six over six hundred cases. It's known as gay play. 0:17:39.320 --> 0:17:39.720 Oh it is. 0:17:39.760 --> 0:17:41.760 I mean, it's a pretty serious thing that one and 0:17:41.840 --> 0:17:43.960 every three people that get this have died. And I 0:17:44.040 --> 0:17:45.359 wondered if the President is aware. 0:17:45.400 --> 0:17:47.159 I don't have it? 0:17:47.240 --> 0:17:48.800 Are you you? 0:17:49.040 --> 0:17:55.280 You don't have it? Well, I'm relieved to hear that you. 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:55.000 Didn't answer my question. 0:17:55.640 --> 0:17:56.119 How do you know? 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:58.720 The president of the work the White House looks on this 0:17:58.760 --> 0:17:59.440 as a great joke. 0:18:00.080 --> 0:18:01.480 Now I don't know anything about it, leans Ter. 0:18:02.320 --> 0:18:04.560 The president, does anybody in the White House know about 0:18:04.560 --> 0:18:05.280 this epidemic? 0:18:05.359 --> 0:18:06.879 Lauri, I don't think so. 0:18:06.920 --> 0:18:10.080 I don't think any There been no personal experience here, Leicester. 0:18:10.440 --> 0:18:13.280 These comments came against the backdrop of a struggle over 0:18:13.320 --> 0:18:16.920 AIDS funding that was playing out across various federal agencies, 0:18:17.760 --> 0:18:21.120 but the President stayed out of the fray. At this point, 0:18:21.320 --> 0:18:23.840 he had never even said the word AIDS in public, 0:18:24.280 --> 0:18:27.080 not in a speech, not in a press conference, not 0:18:27.200 --> 0:18:31.080 in any recorded conversation. It was not until June of 0:18:31.160 --> 0:18:35.040 nineteen eighty three, at another White House briefing that Reagan's 0:18:35.040 --> 0:18:38.360 press secretary indicated that the President was at least aware 0:18:38.560 --> 0:18:39.120 of AIDS. 0:18:40.040 --> 0:18:44.160 President has been involved in brief down the AIDE situation 0:18:44.400 --> 0:18:47.119 a number of months ago in a cabinet meeting, and 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:52.040 we have recently, as said, twelve million dollars be reprogrammed 0:18:52.040 --> 0:18:55.480 for research on age. That's extent of the president's INVOLVMA, 0:18:55.520 --> 0:18:56.200 which has been. 0:18:56.359 --> 0:18:58.880 Laurie, does the President think that it might help if 0:18:58.920 --> 0:19:02.520 he suggested that gays cut down on their cruising. 0:19:05.480 --> 0:19:05.800 Told you. 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.879 It's worth mentioning here that the reporter asking this question, 0:19:10.160 --> 0:19:12.480 the same one you heard in the earlier press conference, 0:19:12.840 --> 0:19:17.119 was a conservative provocateur named Lester Kinsolving. So while it 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.119 may sound like he's righteously standing up for people with AIDS, 0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:22.800 it's more like he was worried that the disease would 0:19:22.800 --> 0:19:25.840 spread to straight people. He wanted the president to condemn 0:19:25.920 --> 0:19:28.240 the gay community for endangering everyone else. 0:19:28.720 --> 0:19:29.600 I didn't hear your answer. 0:19:30.960 --> 0:19:34.400 I just was acknowledge engineer and your interest in this set. 0:19:34.600 --> 0:19:36.560 You don't think that it would help if the gays 0:19:36.560 --> 0:19:38.320 cut down on their cruising. 0:19:38.320 --> 0:19:42.960 We're researching if we come up with any any any 0:19:43.040 --> 0:19:46.080 research that shed some light on whether the gay should 0:19:46.080 --> 0:19:53.320 cruise or not. Crude were not available to you. 0:19:52.840 --> 0:19:55.479 Through the end of his first term. That was the 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:59.919 extent of Reagan's involvement in the AIDS epidemic. Confirmation to 0:20:00.119 --> 0:20:02.280 his press secretary that he had been briefed on the 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:09.840 matter for Michael Gottlieb Rock Hudson's new doctor these were 0:20:09.880 --> 0:20:13.840 exhausting years. Gottlieb had been taking care of people with 0:20:13.880 --> 0:20:16.800 AIDS as long as anyone. He had co authored the 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.320 first ever article about it, the one you heard about 0:20:19.359 --> 0:20:22.280 in Episode one, that was published in the CDC's newsletter 0:20:22.320 --> 0:20:26.000 on New Diseases. As more and more of his patients died, 0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:30.520 Gottlieb grew increasingly frustrated by the lack of urgency around AIDS, 0:20:31.520 --> 0:20:35.479 and so he began wearing two hats, one as a doctor, 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:39.919 the other as an activist. In that capacity, he pushed 0:20:39.920 --> 0:20:42.760 for more research funding and attention to an epidemic that 0:20:42.880 --> 0:20:44.680 was still being largely ignored. 0:20:45.440 --> 0:20:51.200 The stigma outweighed everything else. As AIDS and all its baggage, 0:20:51.880 --> 0:20:54.879 Gottlieb was in a tricky position. As far as he 0:20:54.920 --> 0:20:58.359 could tell, The UCLA Medical Center was like most hospitals 0:20:58.359 --> 0:21:01.880 and cities dealing with major AIDS breaks. None of them 0:21:01.920 --> 0:21:04.719 wanted to be known as an AIDS hospital, And the 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.960 more Gottlieb used his platform to talk about AIDS, the 0:21:07.960 --> 0:21:12.600 more he felt the scrutiny of UCLA administrators. In retrospect, 0:21:12.800 --> 0:21:15.440 it might seem strange that a hospital wouldn't want to 0:21:15.520 --> 0:21:17.760 draw attention to the fact that its doctors were working 0:21:17.800 --> 0:21:21.560 at the forefront of a major new disease, But Gottlieb 0:21:21.600 --> 0:21:25.160 says administrators were worried about their bottom line, that being 0:21:25.200 --> 0:21:28.080 known as an AIDS hospital would scare away patients with 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:33.520 other conditions. If I was too proactive, you know, questions 0:21:33.600 --> 0:21:36.879 might have been raised as to my loyalties or the 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:42.200 reasons for my being so proactive amongst the faculty at 0:21:42.240 --> 0:21:47.720 my institution. Then I was frustrated by the obstacles put 0:21:47.880 --> 0:21:49.840 in our way. 0:21:50.640 --> 0:21:54.200 When Gottlieb first met Rock Hudson and realized he had AIDS, 0:21:54.760 --> 0:21:57.240 he understood right away what a big deal it was, 0:21:57.600 --> 0:22:00.840 or at least could be. If Hudson's died diagnosis ever 0:22:00.880 --> 0:22:04.440 became public, he would be by far the most famous 0:22:04.440 --> 0:22:08.639 person known to have AIDS. Real attention might finally be 0:22:08.720 --> 0:22:11.560